This piece of trash is already going to be replaced in a few

>>33308288

Answered it yourself. Apache. Ideally the E model.

It's a boring "standard" choice, but it is just patently, obviously, the best option.

Thank FUCK we're dropping the Tiger like a stone though. God damn that thing was useless. Every single time it was the same thing on exercise.

>Tiger's not coming, no parts
>Tiger's not coming, in repairs
>Tiger's not coming, too expensive
>Tiger's here!
>Holy shit!
>Wait, thats all it does?
>What do you mean it's already done?
>They aren't seriously fucking off alre-
>They are

Fuck that thing. And fuck the NH90 too while we're at it. Give me Apaches, Blackhawks, AW-101s, fucking anything that isn't more of that Eurocopter shit.

>>33308288
>>33308368
/raises hand

What country are we talking about here?

>>33308386
Australia

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>>33308468
Ah. Glad you guys are rearming. The 21st century promises to be just as exciting as the last one.

Protip: last I heard the Apaches had shitty readiness rates. If you want a bulletproof ride, get the USMC navalized version of the Super Cobra.

>>33308368
I worked at a regional Australian airport; one time we had a Tiger spend the night parked on a random bit of grass out by a windsock (while transiting to or from an exercise).

The next day, the pilot arrives, starts it up, takes off, is hovering along the runway and starts climbing... then slows, does a 180 and comes back down, parking in what the pilot thought was an out of the way part of the ramp / tarmac (he actually parked on the edges of the taxiway that the Royal Flying Doctor Service needs to get through to get to the runway; his parking delayed a couple of flights by at least a couple of minutes while the pilots tried to figure out if they could squeeze between the Tiger and another plane parked in a proper location).

Anyway, turns out there had been some vibration alarm go off and so he had to bring it down for safety. To fix it, they didn't send Army personnel; instead they literally hired some local truck mechanic company (but I'm guessing that maybe they had a side-venture doing limited helicopter work for some locals). They brought around a truck, hoisted up the rotor assembly, did some basic maintenance and he was finally able to leave the next day.

>>33308576

Bell has already offered AH-1Z and Boeing is the Apache. Apparently the Army is also asking for little birds for SF use.

>>33308781

so the thing was easy to repair?

>>33310426

As long as you don't have to send any part back to France then it's fine.

Any Frenchfags here with more info?

>>33311177
Check'em

>>33311177
they can't be assed to show up to repair the fucking thing, why would they hang about to answer questions?

>>33311177
holy shitsnacks those gets...

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>>33311177
quality get

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>>33311177
Everything I can say is that the ALAT (aviation légère de l'armée de terre) and especially the guys fighting alongside special forces since some tigers are dedicated to the 4e régiment d'hélicoptères des forces spéciales ( 4e RHFS) are happy with the capabilites of their tigers but not with the availability of it.

These SF pilots also did crazy stuff sometimes with their tigers like dropping hand grenades from the cockpit onto terrorists (seen in Lybia and Mali) which means they're quite confident with the thing.

some footage of tiger's FLIR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbTjmCz-Ilk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdqGiSUDGZo

Some Mali landscape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_mKgM-nuOI

I'm pretty sure I saw a fleeting footage of the hand grenade stuff once flimed in IR from another chopper, but I can't find it anymore.

However the things, as manoeuverable and capable as it is, costs a lot to fly. like 28000 euros per flight hour in war time, which is more than a freaking Rafale.

That's quite bad, and the a super shitty peace time readiness ratio really hurts training. A high war time availability ratio can be easily achieved when there are spares, the chopper being not that hard to maintain and repair.

In 2014 it had a 17.4% availability rate during peace time (meaning in France). However war time availability was more than 90% on deployments.

Same old story with the french army : no bucks spent, no bangs fired.

And yes eurocopter is shit.

Give me Aerospatiale back for fuck sake. Alouette, Ecureuil, Dauphin, Puma, THESE were god damn good choppers.

>>33308288

I hope the government learns not to but the cheapest option from now on...

>>33311189
>>33311207
>>33311233

Why the fuck you're excited you degenerate fucks, it's just numbers, /k/ never cared about these memes
Go back to >>>/pol/
Or >>>/b/

>>33312579

Check em

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>>33308288
>What should replace it?
Ka-52 obviously...

>>33312600
ayyyy

>>33312601
Does anyone know how autorotation works in the Ka-52? Does the gearbox remain engaged, or do you have to manage the rotors individually?

With a domestically designed one built for Australian conditions.

>>33312637
There is no individual rotor management in Ka-50/52, its all automatic.

>>33312757
Interesting, thanks

>>33312637
>>33312819
>>33312757

Check out DCS Ka-50 for a taste of that beautiful bird

>Most recent Australian helicopter acquisitions
>NH90, Tiger and Seasprites
>All disappointed bring results(kek Seasprite)

Who keeps picking these?

May as well just get hordes of filthy Iroquois' and old Cobras for cheap from the burgers.

>>33312601
>western country buying slavshit
that won't happen. Aus would buy british,french, jap or US but never slav. and since three of those four already us Apaches it'll probably be that

I would assume they just don't, IIRC the Ka-52 has ejection seats so you wouldn't need to autorotate.

>>33311978
>In 2014 it had a 17.4% availability rate during peace time (meaning in France). However war time availability was more than 90% on deployments.
I see nothing wrong here.

>>33313219
Except you can't train pilots with such a low disponibility, as I explained in the previous post. On the 250 flight hours they are suppoosed to fly annually some only fly 140 and have to train on simulator the rest of the time.
This means taking more risks in operation since training can't be as effective.
So yes, it's very wrong. And should be a wake up call.

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>>33308288
>no one will ever buy SA Rooivalks
Suffering.

>>33312601
They look like spiked dogs

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>>33308288

>Buying hyper-expensive and delicate Euroshit weapons like the Tiger, Puma AFV etc.

Not buying actual war machines from the only countries who know how to build machines for war, USA and Russia.

>>33308288
>apaches destroyed in afghan = 12
>supercobras destroyed in afghan = 4
>Kiowa destroyed in afghan = 9

>tigers destroyed in afghan = 1
really makes you think

>>33313973
>Tigers flown in Afghanistan = 1

>>33313973
Are you retarded?

>>33313973

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Tiger#Operational_history

> None of Germany's four deployed Tigers fired a shot in combat, which the Bundeswehr attributed to the helicopter's psychological impact through shows of force being sufficient to counter threats.

ISAF = I SAW AMERICANS FIGHTING

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>>33311978

>>33314370
Americans pulled out of Helmand because they couldn't cope.

>>33314370

Fucking hell this helicopter and Germans are pathetic...

>>33314370
The funny part is like 80% of those losses weren't combat related.

Really makes you think.

>>33314796
>>England pulled out of Helmand because they couldn't cope.

FTFY

>>33314823
UK took over from USA in Helmand???

>>33314796

UK suffered the second most casualties in Afghanistan after the USA, so fair credit to them for willingness to fight. It should be noted that the UK uses the AH-64, because it wants a proper AH.

>>33308288
>>33308368

Frog here, so I won't pretend to be unbiased, but while i do agree the Apache, particularly the E model, beats it in most fields, the Tiger is hardly a shitty helo either. A fair bit of its problems in Australian service were either traced back to faulty locally sourced parts, unsufficient maintenance and unproper pilot procedures, so i'd say you brought it on yourselves. Fuck the NH90, though, fuck its unimpressive design by commitee, fuck its QA problems, and fuck its lack of spare parts. On this we agree.

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>>33314370
german tigers don't have a 30mm cannon because the bundeswehr did not want to buy something the french made, namely the GIAT/Nexter Defa 781 m in 30x113 (which was intended to be the RAH66 main gun at some point, mind you)

They wanted Mauser to make their own gun.
Mauser promised the best gun ever, and never delivered it.
Instead the german tigers flew in afghanistan with .50bmg gun pods.

Not the best loadout you can think of to provide air support.

pic related

>>33315497
that's just sad. On the other hand the germans weren't allowed to use tanks either, because it would've been percieved as "to agressive" by the locals so their politicians were probably happy that the helicopter was only semi combat capable

>>33315497

I suppose it makes sense.

It's not like Germany is ever expecting to fight, so they might as well make military spending all about passing money to German companies.

It's rational, though it's going to suck for German servicemen when they eventually do have an actual war that they can't "National Caveat" their way out of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_caveats#Afghanistan

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>>33315497

Jesus fucking Christ.

It's basically an overrated, expensive Kiowa.

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Kinda off topic, but does anyone know why there's so much high quality Apache guncam footage online, but almost no cobra guncam footage?

>>33315497
When i was station in masar-i-sharif in 2011 we had a dozen of those support our convoys from the air. They use the 30mm gun. however they use differnet loadouts depending on mission. usually we have 2 of them in the air at any given time when on patrol. one carrying a 30 mm gun and the other use some sort of additional camera equipment in place of the gun. but i dont know what for.

>>33316219
>when they eventually do have an actual war

lol germany once had an actual war. the whole world was needed to stop them. be glad that the germans don't run a prussian militaristic society they used to otherwise the world would be a lil bit more unconfortable for armchair generals like you.

>>33308386
>>33308576
Fuck off you wothless sack of shit.

>>33318418
>Kinda off topic, but does anyone know why there's so much high quality Apache guncam footage online, but almost no cobra guncam footage?

Probably the recorder uses some shitty military proprietary video format.

>>33318609
>When i was station in masar-i-sharif in 2011

How much does it suck fighting an actual meme war with no objectives or purpose?

>>33318418
I don't think the Corps deployed Cobras off ship. The Army jizzed Apaches all over Iraq and Afghanistan and the Corps has a lot of Super Huey's kitted out with door guns and rocket pods.

>>33311978
>dropping hand grenades from the cockpit onto terrorists (seen in Lybia and Mali) which means they're quite confident with the thing.

opinion discarded. If you're stupid enough to believe that then you need to jump on hand grenade and fuck off already

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>>33312746
>Australian conditions
>this is what the ADF actually believes

>>33318783
this or something to do with

>>33319685
based on what. Why do you think this considering almost all our support was in the form of cobra hueys I can't even fathom why you would think this. Pure conjecture or do you have an intelligent reason to think this?

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>>33320210
this desu

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>>33311177
>>33311177
>>33311177

>>33308368
>>33314949
Can someone tell me what does the E model of the Apache bring? New sensors? Engines? avionics?

>>33322543
Improved sensor fusion, UAV control capability, better engine and transmission, bayonet mount, refuelling capability, and a generally uprated air frame.

>>33322571
>Refueling
Mid air refueling?

>Bayonet mount
Wires right? Although right now i am imagining an Apache with a giant spike spearing snackbars and tanks

>>33320210
But it did happen anon.
You're the one who don't know shit.

This is how a french air force Mirage F1 settles a bet with an officer from the FFL.
>"hey I bet I can either push off your beret from the top of your head with the air blast caused by my Mirage, or make you cower and hit the dirt"
>"well I bet you I will stand still and my beret will stay on my head"
Their exact conversation.

The following happened :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYa0bI98kWA

Still thinking the frogs aren't crazy ?
Think twice.

I'm just going to repeat it : it did happen, and you don't know shit.

>>33322731
>But it did happen anon.
>You're the one who don't know shit.
child, are you an american pretending to be a dumb french cunt to poison the well so to speak? Look how they open the cockpit. WHY would a pilot have grenades. I'm 100% sure you've never served. So go back to Call of duty you ignorant sniveling child.

>>33322731
I bet you think that old aircraft carrier light house story is true to kid. I bet you think battlefield is an accurate representation of warfare. And i'd bet you have autism.

>>33322763

i dunno about this whole grenade business but it doesnt seem that crazy of an idea. i saw this a while back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beq2T9kKLBw

>>33322805
hey idiot. look how the cock pit opens up the the tiger compared to the that heli. BTW when you become 18 come back to this site and prove you have guns. Till then go play CoD and fuck off.

>>33316533
Kiowa pilots dont give a SHIT about alarms though.

>>33322805
Is that a fucking GRENADE I SEE HANGING OFF HIS COCKPIT WINDOW?

>>33322965
smoke or incendiary retard. for I crashed pick me up or the unlikely scenario an incendiary to destroy the coms.

>>33322993
Sounds like an accident waiting to happen hanging off the window like that.

Didn't some anons say some Kiowa pilots got in trouble for bringing fragmentation grenades for dropping?

>>33318783
>shitty proprietary video format.

Its simpler than that. I know for a fact that most USAF aircraft have a commercial Sony recorder hooked up. For what its worth, its sourced cheaper through commercial means, not military. If it was sourced through regular military channels shit would be more expensive.

So in this case combat footage could be your bog standard video recording device that records the video and overlays from the military grade video systems. Hookups to another device like a computer probably wont be found in your local hardware store but rather a specialty shop for video or other media equipment.

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>>33322763
>child, are you an american pretending to be a dumb french cunt to poison the well so to speak? Look how they open the cockpit. WHY would a pilot have grenades. I'm 100% sure you've never served. So go back to Call of duty you ignorant sniveling child.

>Look how they open the cockpit

>you ignorant sniveling child.

>>33322841
>hey idiot. look how the cock pit opens up the the tiger compared to the that heli. BTW when you become 18 come back to this site and prove you have guns. Till then go play CoD and fuck off.

Well, pic related will give you more insight on this I believe. Keep being butthurt.

Also thanks >>33322805 for this footage. Very informative.

>>33323009
>Didn't some anons say some Kiowa pilots got in trouble for bringing fragmentation grenades for dropping?
I'd be happy to learn more about this.

>>33319685
I specifically remember reading a super cobra was damaged in that raid that took out a few harriers.
The simpler solution is the Super Cobra is a navalized aircraft and Afghanistan is hot and high

>>33308822
>little birds for SF use
Unless you are getting NOTAR, what's the point? they have shit lift and shit range

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>>33311978
So the EC Tiger looks a lot like A129 and Rooivalk. Are the designs related or is it just a case of convergent design solutions?

>>33308288

Wow, what a waste of money this was, never even used in combat

>>33323912
AND unlike blackhawks and Chinooks, never used in disaster relief.
AND, being so gay and unready, never even served as a deterrent to uppity neighbours <insert SE Asian country here>

>>33323894
Busty Negro shot up in Mali or what?

>>33308822
Think they'll just get new Blackhawks instead.

>>33312579
Being this new.

>>33323929
look closer

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>>33323954

Theres a vid on youtue of a french tiger landing on a libyan beach with tons of people there and picking up a libyan flag from a little girl. I wouldn't put anything past those crazy fucks.

>>33315497
Funny. In Apache school they tell us the 30mm gun we use is german. Hence is the only part of the aircraft you use metric tools on

>>33323894
Convergent design solutions seen on many different attack helicopters.

The Tiger is also older in concept than these two but took much longer to get in production and to be delivered.

Rooivalk project started in 1984 and its prototype flew first in 1990. it became operational in 1999.

A129 Mangusta started in 1978, the prottoype flew in 1983, it became operational in 1992.

Tiger was first talked about in 1975 and its primary design was defined in 1984, then was cancelled in 1986, relaunched in 1989 and the first prototype flew in 1991. After other misshaps, the first helicopters were delivered to France and Germany in 2005.

Comparison stops there, other than that these aircrafts are very different.

>>33324042
>Comparison stops there, other than that these aircrafts are very different.
Go on...

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>>33324021
>Funny. In Apache school they tell us the 30mm gun we use is german. Hence is the only part of the aircraft you use metric tools on
Well, technically the M230 chain gun was designed after the US M39, british ADEN and french DEFA guns which themselves were revisions of the german revolver cannon prototype Mauser MG 213C.

So that's maybe why they told you this.

Here's more info about the defunct german gun for the Tiger, the Mauser RMK30. Which was intended to equip many different platforms, including lighter ones like the wiesel, since it was a derivative of a recoilless design. Pic related.

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3602.html

On paper it was quite something.

>>33324913
Why did it fail?

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>>33311177
Impressive.

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>>33323818

>>33325968
>when you helo's door is so heavy from armour you need a fucking piston to push it open to get in and out

>>33324913

The M230 is a chaingun, not a revovler cannon.

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>>33325999
Fun fact, Havoc's designers were so confident in its armour they tested it while sitting inside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpQ9AlRw4yM

>>33325968
>an expensive helicopter designed exclusively for combat is more armored than a cheap helicopter designed exclusively for recon

Really made me think

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>>33326675
Do you have autism?

>>33325968
A better soviet equivalent for the Gazelle would be the Mil Mi-2.

>>33311233

Those skis look cool

>>33312579
>>>/lgbt/

>>33326690
>does [x] poster have autism
>says this on a board where autism is the norm

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>>33325968
>>33326690
>muh armor

The Russians attack helicopters have in counterpart slavshit-tier situational awareness due to their smaller windows.

Moreover, the Ka-50 and 52 aren't as armored as the Mil-28.

>>33308288
How is it possible to design a helicopter that's inferior in almost every way to one that, despite upgrades, is nevertheless 30 years older than it?

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As in everything.

THEY
SHOULD
HAVE BOUGH
CHINESE

And while doing that; absorb the chinese style of military procurement strategy.
From exactly Zero attack helicopters before 2010, to vastly over a hundred attack helos in 2016.

The only attack helicopter anyone should ever buy is the Apache. It's the only one there is any purpose to buy.

Russian helicopters have performed laughably bad in Syria.

All attack helicopters other than Apache are too small and not very good at long range accurate fire. There's no point in buying an attack helicopter that must do a low altitude slow run with a line of sight on the target to hit it, it will just be BTFO by any kind of SHORAD quickly and easily.

Only Apache can reliably and accurately hit targets from long range and behind cover while carrying a large enough weapons load to make it worth buying the helicopter in the first place.

>>33323826

Some guy actually got others killed for having nades in the cockit that got loose and detonated

>>33329388
what is the cobra zulu?

>>33331822

a chopper that has less range, less payload and several shortcomings compared to the Apache?

I'm surprised the havoc has any power available with how heavy it looks.

>>33331880
I'm talking about the newest version that has the expanded weapons mounting pylons for a greater payload or drop tanks. Hence the zulu. also that sweet looking nam era airframe.

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>>33312601
>>33328728
>The Russians attack helicopters have in counterpart slavshit-tier situational awareness due to their smaller windows.

What was that?

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>>33331975

>>33323836

http://australianaviation.com.au/2016/02/troubled-tiger-set-for-early-retirement-new-light-helicopter-for-special-forces-on-the-way/

Rapid deployment from C-17s apparently.

>>33323933

This makes sense to everyone apart from the army

>Current plans also include a requirement for role-specific upgrades to the MRH 90 troop lift helicopter to replace the S-70A Black Hawk in support of domestic counter-terrorism operations.

>>33331963

still less capable than a vanilla Apache

the cobra works out for the Marines because it's smaller and thus more ship worthy, the availability rate is only slightly better, it's not as much of a stable shooting platform or has a good ceiling.

>>33308368
>Wait, thats all it does?
What's so shit about the tiger ? What does the tiger lack compared to the AH64 ?

>>33329170
And a few missing billions because of Chinese Military Procurement Corruption

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>>33328728
It sure is better than having amerishit-tier situational awareness so that before you die you know exactly under which bush was the towelhead that shot you hiding.

>>33331822
Less capable than the AH-64E in every way?

>>33332172

It should be noted that British Apaches (which were ordered with marine adaptations) operated quite well from a ~21,000 t vessel during the 2011 Libyan War.

>>33308576
Army pilot here. I always loved the cobra growing up, but after seeing what the apache can do compared to cobras, it's not even a comparison. Regarding the readiness rate, they're not much worse than other airframes. Aache maintainers are just shit in general because they don't have to fly on the aircraft they work on.

its all the same with Euro-Coop production desu
Tiger, Nh90 etc
everyone wants their own special snowflake variant, then budget cuts and then not enough numbers of the vehicle and BAM costs and development rises.

Thats why american air vehicles are usually better off, because you know that if they go into production stage, the US military themselves will get a shitton

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>>33311177
noice

>>33332195

Carries much less, so its time on station is much shorter in terms of munitions output.

Only 450 rounds max in the gun compared to over 1,200 for example. One turned up at an exercise of intense combined arms, and they fucked off almost right away from round use.