> fire up fallout 4 > intro: "america ended the w

Gee, if only there were a board somewhere on this website where this thread would be on topic...

>>>/his/

>>27915836

>muh Japan would have surrendered anyway!

Then why didn't they?

They could have surrendered at any time they chose.
But they didn't surrender until not one, but two atomic bombings.

What were they waiting for exactly?
More of their civilians to starve to death?

>>27915862
Well to be honest they would have surrendered at some point. That point just had a really high probability of happening after millions of civilian casualties.

>>27915836
>not realizing Fallout history and real history diverge before WW2
fucking noob

>>27915856

i had no idea /his/ existed, thx.

>>27915862

watch the video and be enlightened ;)

>>27915881

Well sure, we can certainly agree on that.
But that doesn't seem to be what OP was saying.

>>27915881
>millions

>>27915856
Naw, there's only one place for all this pinko commie talk. >>>/trash/

>>27915893

It's mostly anti American propaganda, but still fails to actually answer the question.

The Japanese could have actually prevented the second a-bomb being dropped if they surrendered immediately after the Soviet invasion.
So clearly the Soviets declaring war was not enough on its own.
Furthermore, Japan had known for quite a while that they were going to declare war on them, despite what the video claims.
If they were planning to surrender anyway, why not do so before the Soviets declare war?

Finally, in Emperor Hirohito's surrender message to his people, he specifically referenced the atomic bombs, and surrendering to prevent millions of Japanese from dying.

>>27915925
Yeah, millions. The USA expected a million casualties if they had to invade the home islands. You can bet there would be carpet bombings of major population centers.

>>27915925
Yeah, dumb nigger. The US alone made around 2 million Purple Hearts in expectation of the invasion of the Japanese Mainland.

>Fallout 4

I am so fucking sick of all these shitty threads popping up every damn minute.

>>>/v/

>>>/his/

>>27916001
Sorry, I thought you were saying that millions were killed in the atomic bombs.

>>>/v/

>>>/his/

>>>/int/

>>>/lgbt/

>>27916025
Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding.

>>27915883
Near as I can tell the timelines don't really diverge until after 1945, with the failure of the transistor to be invented.

>>27916073
Bethesda possibly fucked that up with Mothership Zeta DLC they abduct at least two people well before 1946

>>27916108

Lonesome Road is the only canon DLC to ever be released in any Fallout game. Everything else is AIDS and autism.

>>27915993

there's a video on youtube in which physicist Freeman Dyson explains why you're wrong. i'm too lazy to look for it, but recommend you find it.

>>27915862
>They could have surrendered at any time they chose.

They tried mother fucker

>>27916137
No they didn't.

Well, okay, they did. But they knew exactly what terms the US would accept, and yet they didn't want to agree to those terms.

It is NOT a case of "Oh, the poor misunderstood Japanese REALLY wanted to end the war in 1942, but the big bad mean Americans wouldn't let them"

>>27916175

>"Oh, the poor misunderstood Japanese REALLY wanted to end the war in 1942, but the big bad mean Americans wouldn't let them"

Oh so what the Japs teach their crotch-spawn in school right now?

>>27916175
>US shoots jap troops trying to surrender
>Hurr japs all fight to the death!
>US doesn't accept anything other than unconditional surrender, japan losing their emperor, dismantling of all their territories they've owned for decades
>hurr japs were going to fight to the death!

If FDR wasn't a war mongering cripple, he could have negotiated with the embargo
But ofc
Then he would have been mobilizing for 3 years for no reason.

>>27916225
>Japan totally didn't want to go to war with the USA guys, they were forced to after the USA wouldn't sell them the oil they needed to rape their way across china.

>>27916253
except they were willing to end the war in china
and withdraw from most of it

>>27916274
>Be Japan
>Start shit with the biggest swinging dick on the block
>get your ass best
>"Nono America, we're WILLING to COMPROMISE in order to end the war (that we started)"

Do you not see the issue with this?

>>27916116
>Shitting on Old World Blues
Really nigger?

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>>27916119

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A4B3aNKVspM#t=1216

he worked for british bomber command in the war, so he know what he's talking about

(start at about 20min mark)

>>27915836
>>amerifags actually believe this
WE HAD THIS THREAD THE OTHER DAY

FUCK OFF
>>>/his/
>>>/trash/
>>>/b/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmIBbcxseXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmIBbcxseXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmIBbcxseXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmIBbcxseXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmIBbcxseXM

>>27916359

Oops I forgot about that one.

Please rape my face.

>>27916383
Well... for old times sake.

I like FO4 as much as the next guy but for fuck's sake keep this shit off /k/.

>>27916374
>he worked for british bomber command in the war, so he know what he's talking about
>british bomber command
>pacific theater

>>27916274
Except they had no intention, as shown by what they actually did.

>>27916549

brilliant! have a cookie.

>>27916137
Horseshit nigger. The military attempted to coup the Emperor to prevent a surrender.

>>27916811
dubs checked and this is true, they were also prepping the civilians to fight off American forces that were gonna go in during a land invasion.

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>>27916779
stay refuted you revisionist fuck

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>>27915862
>Then why didn't they?

They still believed that they had an advantage in Korea/Chinaland. In fact after the first bomb tojo told fuckface that one of their cities just disappeared, but fuckface did not believe it.

>>27916849

stay jingoist amerifag ;)

>>27916403
/thread

>>27916116
>MUH BEAR N BULL
>not autism

>>27917052

>Dead Money
>muh haunted house trope
>Muh BoS is still relevant guise

>Honest Hearts
>Suck as much Mormon dick as you can when you're not busy sucking 1911 dick
>Did I mention I'm Mormon, Courier?
>You're a dirty heretic but I'll tolerate you for now, Courier.
>I'm the real hero of this story Courier.
>Did I mention Mormonism?

>Old World Blues
>Oh shit! We've forgotten to make Mystery Science Theater 2000 references since the first game! Quick, shoehorn a DLC in before it's too late!
>Uh Bill, Rabbi Shekelstein also wants us to ramp up the Red Scare alarmism about 20 notches. He's worried people still unironically support America
>Okay get a man on that.

>>27917103
So we agree all the DLCs are autism, then?

>>27917117
Nah, Dead money was fun
was it perfect? nope

>THEY WERE GOING TO SURRENDER!!!!!!

The japs killed 7,000 Americans in the time between the first and second bombing. Source: http://www.college.columbia.edu/core/sites/core/files/pages/Paul%20Fussel-Thank%20God%20for%20the%20Atom%20Bomb-August%201981.pdf

>>27916331
pretty much


we can argue about political semantics and backroom dealing leading up to the climaxes of the period all we want, but at the end of the day the nips threw away their chance at a conditional surrender when they attacked pearl harbor

>>27916381
Thank you for posting this, I started on that video and haven't stopped laughing since. I'm so glad free speech is a thing, otherwise stupid people would never say crap like this, and the world would be a duller place.

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Anyone else kinda bummed that we didn't get to invade Japan? The Tokyo Firebombings were way gnarlier than the nukings.

>>27917169
They were going to surrender.
To the Soviet Union.
The US nukes forced them to surrender to prevent the soviets gaining a foothold in Asia..

>>27916116
>disregarding Point Lookout

What is wrong with you?

>>27917707
Frankly, I'm sad that we didn't get to see many of the late war weapons the USA developed not kill some worthless Japs. The Midway CVs, the P-80s, the Bearcats, the Pershing tanks, the JB-2 cruiser missile, and many upgrades like the P-51H and P-47N, all too late to shine and taste some blood.

Why are people so desperate to criticise nuclear weapons that they ignore the fact the nuclear bombings had a huge impact on the surrender.

>>27915836
>"america ended the war by dropping atomic bombs on hiroshima and nagasaki"

Ignoring all the stupid politics in this thread, that is literally what happened.

Whether it was necessary is totally irrelevant, that is how the war ended.

>>27915862
Well maybe because we refused prior surrenders because they had terms attached. We demanded unconditional surrender. But funny thing, the only condition the Japanese was that they get to keep their emperor. And what do they have today? An emperor.

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Start a war with America and we'll kill you and everyone around you. The best part is that in a hundred years you'll fucking thank us.

>>27917983
>An emperor
but this time, the guy doesn't hold any real power like before the surrender. While I assume the Japanese terms were to keep the power under the emperor.

>>27917983
The point of demanding unconditional surrender wasn't to impose all kinds of bad shit on Japan and Germany, it was to change the paradigm of how wars are waged. Hitler and Hirohito wanted old school wars, where you invade someone and fight for a while, then make a settlement based on how the war is going. That shit wasn't going to fly in WW2; you either completely destroyed the other side, or you had face complete defeat.
TLDR; your understanding of what unconditional surrender entailed is massively confused.

>>27916403
I like this rationale.
t. Russian

>>27916274
Damn shame literally everything they did says the opposite, otherwise you might have had a case, fuckstick.

The thing that gets me is that I have actually seen people say Japan was justified in attacking the USA.

Apparently refusing to sell oil and scrap metal to fuel their invasion of China was as good as declaring war on them.

>>27917721
>losing their entire navy won't make Japan surrender
>being starved to death and having their cities incinerated while having no way to fight back won't make Japan surrender
>the threat of an actual invasion of Japan won't make them surrender
>but the Soviets jumping in at the end and defeating a gulf war-tier rump conscript army will make them surrender
Do Russians and communist apologists actually believe this or is this a subtle satire of the 'America beat the Germans singlehandedly' mentality?

>>27918432
Don't you get it? If you're an American your are bad and should feel bad about everything we have or ever will do. Win a fight? Cheated. Lost? We deserved it. Do something nice? Subterfuge. Sanction something? Bullying.

The obvious solution is suicide, but people would just complain about the mess.

Or they live in a miserable hell hole and fuck with a relevant country to forget their sorrow.

>>27915836
Fallout is satire of everything Cold War. That's probably the accepted history in that universe. Just because it's in a game doesn't mean the publisher is espousing it.

>>27919438
But the Soviets were their bros. Japan wanted to surrender and the Soviets gave them false hope by drawing out the negotiations and promising to help them secure better terms. So ofcourse the Japanese were devastated when suddenly Red Army steamrolled through Manchuria.

What actually happened is that the ruling council Japan was evenly split between "surrender" and "no surrender."

When the US dropped the bomb, no one changed their mind. When Russia invaded Manchuria, no one changed their mind.

The reason Japan surrendered was that the council members saying "no surrender" were killed in a failed coup.

The bomb and the Rooskies probably contributed to surrender, but in the end it was internal struggles that led to defeat.

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>>27916403

>>27920152
>But the Soviets were their bros
The Japanese initially wanted to conquer Siberia, but Lake Khasan and Khalkin Gol disabused them of that notion. Even then they still kept building up the Kwantung Army in preparation for war with the Soviets until the war in the Pacific and China forced them to strip it of their best units. In 1945 the Kwantung army was half of it's peak strength and mostly consisted of shit-tier rear echelon units.

>the Japanese were devastated when suddenly Red Army steamrolled through Manchuria.
The Japanese leadership would have to be completely retarded to not see this coming, but then again they actually were completely retarded anyway.

>>27917103
>Honest Hearts = Erik the Red, the DLC

>>27919964
I wouldn't be surprised if even the japs want it to be remembered in this light

It would be a real bummer to be known for being nuked twice... For no real reason

>>27920208
>The Japanese initially wanted to conquer Siberia..
Yes? I don't see your point here
>Jap leadership...
The Japanese might have been expecting an attack before. But the Soviets played the good guy, claiming because of the peace treaty (or whatever was signed after the USSR defended it's borders at Khalkin Gol) they will strive to be a neutral party in the peace talks.
But actually they agreed to invade Japan in at most 3 months time after they are done in Europe. And to my knowledge, Japan was never aware of this. And if they were, it seemed that the Soviets weren't planning on honoring it. The Germans surrendered 9th May (Moscow time), Soviets declared war at ~23:00 on August 8th and invaded one hour later.

>>27920280
>Yes? I don't see your point here
My point is that they didn't view the Soviets as 'bros' at any point, and neither side was particularly keen on upholding the Neutrality Pact. The Japanese themselves considered breaking the pact when the Germans invaded in 1941 but ultimately decided to go south instead. What I'm trying to say is that the Japanese would have to be dangerously idiotic or willfully blind to not expect a Soviet invasion of Manchuria at some point, but admittedly given their actions throughout the 30s and 40s this isn't too far-fetched of an explanation.

>>27916374
I really don't get how the two have anything to do with each other.

But regardless, the one point no one ever emphasises regarding the bombs is that the people that made the decision didn't have the benefit of afterthought. We can all sit here and discuss the intricacies of history and that time and determine with dubious certainty whether or not it was justified, but we have a lot more information available to us now than any one person did back then

>>27916374

he explains it in the video very rationally. it'sonly like 10 minutes long.

>>27915836
This isn't even fucking /k/ related. Take your stupid America hate bait thread to /int/ or /pol/ you raging homo.

>>27917721
>The US nukes forced them to surrender to prevent the soviets gaining a foothold in Asia.
The 60s called, they want their revisionist history back.
http://www.bu.edu/historic/hs/kort.html

>>27917103
>implying Mormons call anyone "heretic"

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>>27920152
>But the Soviets were their bros.
There's revisionist history, and then there's this.