Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1787

>>16579516
Yeah, I don't understand how Imabi has so many English errors. He actually says (or said) somewhere on his site that all of his lessons have been proof-read by his friends, so either his friends are all ESLs or they lied to him.

Whatever the case, it raises concerns that there are similar problems with his Japanese sentences.

>>16579634
I'm certain that the japanese is much better. There's way less of it and (based on anecdotal evidence, his forum posts) when he was still in school he had japanese natives proofread it.

He does have a couple minor counterfactual statements however, ones that would have been resolved by peering into A Reference Grammar of Japanese, like saying that the -eru potential-not-passive forms are a recent innovation.

RTK was a mistake.

>>16579697
Yeah.

>>16579682
>when he was still in school he had japanese natives proofread it.
Ah, well that's a bit more reassuring then. I just hope that they actually did proof-read it, unlike his friends who were supposed to... actually, come to think of it, maybe when I read that thing on his site about it being proof-read by his friends he was talking about Japanese friends proof-reading the Japanese sentences. That seems to make more sense since the English on his pages quite clearly hasn't been proof-read.

>like saying that the -eru potential-not-passive forms are a recent innovation.
Eh, I wouldn't really be bothered by errors like that. I don't think learning that would impede your understanding of the principle at all, and most people will probably forget it anyway.

>>16579697
This. As soon as I dropped trying to do RTK and just started rote memorizing vocabulary words I learned a lot more kanji. もちろん、もっと勉強しなければならないけど

>>16580084
>>16579700
Too bad I realized this after finishing it.

>>16580093
Same problem I had with it? A bunch of random kanji memorized completely divorced from any actual reading ability?

>>16580118
Pretty much yes. There are some occasions where it is helpful but I don't feel that the benefits are worth it given the amount of time required to get through it all (45 days), especially if you don't care about writing.

I guess I can be happy that I can write now and know the stroke order of must kanji by intuition.

>>16580182
そうか

How do you know when to use が or は o normally just guess based on context when I read.

読める方法がありえないです

>>16580226
Use が unless you can use は, then use は except when you shouldn't even though you can.

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After trying for a while, this is the best I can do:
>Since writing this manga
>regarding squid, my knowledge about the body (squid's bodies?) has followed along (increased as the manga has progressed?) little by little.
>That said, regarding the taste, [my knowledge] isn't detailed at all.
>Because I have a squid allergy.

How badly did I fuck this up? And how accurate/inaccurate were the interpretations in parentheses?

>>16580226
This will probably stump you for a very long time. It's the same as trying to teach a Japanese person English articles (a vs the)

TopicはSubjectがInformationです。

This is an extremely common Japanese sentence construction, but you will almost never get a clear explanation what it even fucking means.

Topic = the general thing being discussed
Subject = something within the Topic
Information = some information about the Subject

So a typical starter sentence, 私は背が高いです。

Beginners learn this as "I am tall." but technically it's "As for me, my height is tall."

>アメリカはバーガーが多いです。
>As for America, there are many burgers.
Don't translate like this, I'm showing you literal translations to help you understand. In a professional translation this sentence would end up something like "There's a lot of burgers in America."

Outside of the TopicはSubjectが structure, はis generic information and が is new information.

Classic example of this:

鳥は飛ぶ。
Birds fly. (Birds, in general, fly.)
鳥が飛ぶ。
A bird flies. (There is a bird or birds flying and I want to tell you about them right now.)

There's more but this is probably enough for now.

>>16580388
Since I started writing this manga
See: 身に付く
Can't become detailed (due to his allergy)

>>16580406
>身に付く
Ah, Jisho never threw up that word, nor did Rikaisama for some reason.

So, should it be:
>Since writing this manga
>regarding squid, my knowledge, little by little, has reached mastery.
>That said, regarding the taste, [my knowledge] isn't detailed at all.
>Because I have a squid allergy.

Though I'm not sure if the second line should maybe be like this instead:
>regarding squid, I've gradually acquired knowledge (about them).

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of てくる is here though.

>>16580388
"Since I began drawing this manga,
I've little by little become an expert concerning squid trivia.
However, I've no real understanding of their flavor.
I have a squid allergy, you see."

You're mostly there.

描く means to draw/illustrate, 書くmeans to write. (It's not that big a deal, but I think you relied on the furigana and didn't check the kanji.)

身につく means to master something, in this case 身 has nothing to do with the squid/bodies.

てform+くる means to come to something. It's a bit like a metaphorical use of coming/going verbs. イカを食べてきました would basically mean "I've started eating squid."

>>16580454
Ah, I see, thanks.

Daily reminder that when you guess a new card correctly in Anki, you should just delete the card and open up your precious time for studying cards you don't know.

>>16580388
イカとみつどもえだったら

みつどもえのほうが

すきだったよ

https://googlefonts.github.io/japanese/

The fonts on this page look really nice.

>>16580678
Before I click, is this an actual google fonts for japanese, or is it just another page for Noto CJK?

>>16580678
Cool. I hope Hanazono and Ume find there way on there. The IPA fonts would be nice too but everyone who cares knows about them.

>>16579697
>>16580084
Honestly I only just started so I can't tell you if it's good or not but my experience with RTK hasn't been negative at all. I'm about 400 Kanji in and I have been doing 2k as well as working through Genki and the grammar guide. I really don't think the purpose of RTK is much more than simply recognizing and differentiating the Kanji. I find it's much easier to remember words I learn in my vocabulary deck if I already learned it in RTK and know the meaning. If it's really so bad why is it still the first entry in the resources for Kanji studying? Nethertheless I want to trust you guys and I'm currently switching to the The Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course because I really want to think that rote is not the only option. Would you guys say that is a better option or is it the same as RTK?

>>16580716
Don't trust random people in the thread. I did RTK and it worked fine for its purpose, which is what you said. Switching to another kanji course is a waste of time, they accomplish the same thing.

>>16580716
KKLC is better if you're learning with vocabulary. RTK is good if you have brain damage (literally) or if you have too little remaining time/stress to spend each day to deal with KKLC's higher amount of information.

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苦笑い

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>>16580736

>>16580716
Just choose something and stick with it. If RTK is working for you then that's cool. RTK was just memed to death as The Only Way To Learn Kanji, and a lot of people get stuck on this step because it's a lot of work with nothing to show for it for a long time. As I stated earlier, I found I learned way more just rote memorizing real practical vocabulary until I just started being able to recognize and guess new kanji compounds.

The concept of RTK is great, and I used to be really into it, until I found myself stuck halfway through it frustrated because I couldn't functionally read/do anything with all the effort I was putting into it.

因みに、これを理解ちゃんなどの道具を付かずに読めない場合、君の意見は無駄と思う。日本語を読めない奴はよく喋るが、読めないなら読めない。漢字は基本的に丸暗記問題ですから、色んな助言があるけど、結局自習しかない。

>>16579229
>Any sequel to this deck? I've seen 10k but I don't want to reset my progress.
You can import just the 4k remaining, the optimized deck in the guide even has numeration so you can delete the first 6000.
Or keep it as a separate deck, your choice. This way you don't have to deal with re-labeling and re-ordering all fields not to fuck up the importing.

>>16580736
ワロタ

>>16580226
Use が if the English sentence would use a "the" or "it", use は if you're talking about things in general. That's should work most of the time as a rule of thumb.

>>16580226

One way to differentiate は and が when attached to the subject, is thinking of が as a focus marker. This is in *addition* to its behavior as a subject marker, not instead of it.

ジムがネコを食べた Jim is the one that ate the cat.

This kind of focus is similar to the role that "the" plays in english.

ネコは魚食べる Cats eat fish (in general).
ネコが魚食べる The cat eats fish (about a particular cat) (or sometimes "Cats are what eat fish.")

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>>16580716
Just do as you like really. If it works keep going, if not then try something else. It was 47 days

>>16580716
Maybe it's not a negative experience, but can you honestly say that you wouldn't have achieved more if you'd spent that same time doing more core or reading another grammar guide?
For recognizing and differentiating the kanji all you really need is a few basic radicals. You do not "know the meaning" from studying rtk, what you memorise is a "keyword", which may or may not be relevant to the meaning that kanji represents in various words, and certainly shouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind when you begin to see that kanji in the wild. So ultimately, I can see 400 doses of rtk potentially being worthwhile depending on how many radicals he gives you in that time, but unless you've got some serious autism you probably won't find it worthwhile to take it to the end.

>>16580847
付かず → 使わず though I guess that one's a typo
場合 → なら sounds better here
無駄と思う 無駄だと思う sounds better
ですから → だから you should be consistent in your formality

your stupid homophone of the day
腐朽
不朽

>>16581587
もしよかったら、 チーズサンドをあげる

>>16581587
馬鹿
御前

>>16582089
they were kinda big here in aus, i did some work for them

>>16582332
Why were our posts deleted?

>>16582340
>/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Your posts belong in /int/.

>>16582360
Oops ok, thanks, sorry.

聞き取りの練習のためにオススメの楽しいVNはない？

>>16582426
主人公に声優があるエロゲがいいかもね
ユースティアとか
すば日々とか

>暗記
my mind is blown

>>16582446
ようやく理解してきましたね

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What's the difference here between him saying 座って見ろ and 座って見てろ like he says here?

Is like saying "sit down and (continue) watching" instead of just "sit down and watch"?

>>16582426
何でもいいから、好みに選んで。But jdrama, as cringey as I find it, ends up being better listening practice because learning how to speak from animu is like learning how to speak English from Scooby Doo. You'll end up imitating exaggerated voice acting and sound pretty cringey/retarded.

>>16582459
You're correct, 見ろ would be "watch" when you haven't started watching yet. The answer on /int/ is wrong.

>>16582484

Thanks

>>16580396
>>16581020
>>16581031
Okay does it matter the order its in?

しんはゆきこが好き
Shin likes yuki
しんがゆきは好き
Yuki likes shin

>>16582723
*shin likes yukiko

I hate hiragana so much
Why do they change Kanji words to hiragana?

なかきよの とおのねふりの みなめさめ なみのりふねの おとのよきかな

>>16582763
かみのくがちょっとなんかいなんじゃないかなあとおもうよ

Who has an access to the djt site? Everyone?
Since you all bash RTK, I guess we need to rewrite it and also some other areas.

>>16582723
しんいちはらんが好き

らんもしんいちが好き

>>16582910
It's just one anon, but you can send suggestions through the feedback form or the thread. There's also an offline archive so someone else can restore the site in case he decides to take it down for whatever reason (has happened before).
Anyway, the guide doesn't tell you to use RTK, it only mentions it as one among other options for those who wish to do individual kanji study.

I saw ノークラブ in big kana on the windshield of an 80's Nissan 240. Any idea what it meant?

My anki doesn't suspend cards i put the leech limit at 3 and pressed again to same card definitely more than that but it does suspend or leech it.

>>16583288
Cards only get a failure mark if you press again during the review stage. It then goes into the relearn stage and subsequent Agains don't really count. So you'd need to fail the card today, tomorrow, the day after to reach your 3 failure leech limit.

Suspending leeches is also a silly idea.

>>16583306
>Suspending leeches is also a silly idea.

Wrong. Leeches are wastes of time. If you haven't learned them by the time you fail them 7 times, you aren't going to learn them.

>>16583365
>If you haven't learned them by the time you fail them 7 times, you aren't going to learn them.
Should we apply that loser mindset to everything learning Japanese?

>>16583377
Rather than waste time attempting to learn a leech for the 8th time, I will learn a new word instead. If you have infinite time and motivation, then feel free to not suspend leeches.

>>16583288
>3times
I think my deck would only consist of 20 non suspended cards if I did that lol.

Jokes aside there are 4-5 words I can't remember and probably failed a hundred times already.

毎週書き取りをだいたい９年間、ネイティブの学習時間

ネイティブじゃないおにいちゃんが短期間で漢字を全部Ankiするのは

げんじつてきじゃないよ

でもかんたんな聴解だけなら短期間でできるよ

がんばれおにいちゃん

>>16583306
>Suspending leeches is also a silly idea.
Please never post about anki.

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>>16583455
By all means quit when you feel a bit down.

Suspending something is pretty much declaring, "I am never going to be able to learn this word".

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>>16583493
No, suspending it frees up your time to use anki for one extra other word. Anki is clearly incredibly inefficient for that one word, so you should learn it outside of anki and free up lots of time for learning easier-to-remember words in anki earlier. Don't post about things you obviously haven't thought about.

itt people are arguing about the best way to wank, some say their way is better, others argue that theirs is better

Maybe they need to understand that since both methods are deemed as the best by each side respectively, maybe it mustn't matter so, since both of them reach the same destination successesfully?

>>16583493
>Suspending something is pretty much declaring, "I am never going to be able to learn this word".
Yeah, no.

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>>16583503

>>16583497
>Don't post about things you obviously haven't thought about.
Perhaps you shouldn't post about things you've never done. All your theory crafting is great and all, but it amounts to nothing as you've quit whenever the going gets tough.

>>16583513
Except I've done it and it works.

>>16583519
By your own admission in earlier posts you quit.

>>16583513
1) Spend weeks spending 10% of my anki time leeching on the same 40 cards
2) Get fed up, write them all down on paper and suspend them all
3) My retention skyrockets and stress from anki plummets
4) I remember the words better because my brain isn't trying to kill me
True story.

>>16583524
No, I just learned better. Suspending leeches isn't quitting, it's moving on to learning them the proper way. Anki is not japanese, it's just a tool. It's not my fault you treat it as some kind of holy item, but don't project the consequences of that onto other people and give them bad advice.

>>16583524
Is this the fabled "Anki Drone"?

>>16583525
>2) Get fed up, write them all down on paper and suspend them all
> and suspend them all
Why was this a necessary step?

>3) My retention skyrockets and stress from anki plummets
Why would you care about your stats? Seriously. It's just a number.

>>16583535
>Why was this a necessary step?
It saves time and has literally no downsides.
>Why would you care about your stats? Seriously. It's just a number.
Retention isn't "just a stat", it's literally the quality of your learning. Yes, I actually mean my retention, not how many times I get cards correct.

>>16583535
>Why would you care about [retention]
Are you fucking serious? Stop posting about flashcards permanently. Fuck off.

>>16583541
>has literally no downsides
[citation needed]

You wrote them down (an additional method to help you remember them) and then peaced out. I don't see why you need to quit alongside taking supplementary methods.

>Retention isn't "just a stat", it's literally the quality of your learning.
I read your post as your stats increased as you no longer had 40 failing cards in the mix, which really just screams stat worship and cowardice.

>>16583552
>You wrote them down (an additional method to help you remember them) and then peaced out.
I never said I "then peaced out". This might surprise you, but people can actually study things outside of anki!

>I don't see why you need to quit alongside taking supplementary methods.
If I'm already studying the thing outside of anki, there's no reason for me to study the thing inside of anki as well. Anki is to retain large volumes of information. Leeches are not large in volume. It is more efficient to study information as small as a collection of leeches outside of anki than inside of anki, even if they're not leeches.

>I read your post as your stats increased as you no longer had 40 failing cards in the mix
Answers on leeches are not part of actual retention. That's what a leech is.

How many Anki Core 'steps' do you do simultaneously? I'm doing 1 and 2 in parallel and making sure I learn all Kanji and vocabulary appearing on each card, not just the bold one its focusing on. I've learned something like 150 new Kanji in the last two weeks as a result, and a whole bunch of words, but idk if this approach is ideal for vocabulary

>>16583564
What.

>>16583564
Delete the step decks and get the Core 2000/6000 decks. Steps are a waste of time as they compartmentalise the words and make it much easier for you to cheat.

>I don't know this word, but it's from Step 2... so it's probably xyz.

>>16583561
>I never said I "then peaced out"
Sorry. Let me rephrase:
>and suspend them all
Happy?

>If I'm already studying the thing outside of anki, there's no reason for me to study the thing inside of anki as well.
Anki acts as a refresher as much as a learning tool. Unless you're studying your leeches outside of anki regularly, you'd be far better suited to keeping the cards alive so you get reminders every now and then.

>Answers on leeches are not part of actual retention. That's what a leech is.
I don't see anything in the manual that says leeches don't count towards the stats.

>>16583590
>Anki acts as a refresher as much as a learning tool. Unless you're studying your leeches outside of anki regularly, you'd be far better suited to keeping the cards alive so you get reminders every now and then.
I do this thing called "reading" and therefore anki is not necessary to refresh my understanding of basic vocabulary. Do you use anki for basic vocabulary in your native language? No? And I don't use anki for basic vocabulary in japanese.

>I don't see anything in the manual that says leeches don't count towards the stats.
Anki does not have a retention stat. To check my retention I generate a graph based on SQL statements, thanks, it's not even a number.

>>16583570
FFFFFFFFFFFFFfffff-

>>16583609
Take it easy, learning japanese "properly" is hard in part because there's so much conflicting information out there. Just like learn japanese.

>>16583610
Aye, I see where you're coming from, thought I was being smart by using the popular decks on the Anki site, and just dealing with the obvious issues. I'll switch over today and see how it goes, thanks for the advice

>>16583598
>And I don't use anki for basic vocabulary in japanese.
So you failed basic vocabulary enough for it to become a leech and then rage quit? Sorry, I figured if it was something you were failing enough to become a leech it'd be something a bit more unusual or rare.

>Anki does not have a retention stat.
It does have correct answer stats, mature stats and the like. That is what I thought you were judging it on.

>To check my retention I generate a graph based on SQL statements
Picture please. Sounds interesting.

You can also drop the holier than thou act. You're coming off as a complete twat.

>>16583621
While you're here, remember that your goal in using anki is to start consuming easy material so that you can really acquire basic japanese. A lot of people forget that, and memorize things without consuming any japanese for quite a while, then go "wtf?" when they can't even read.

>>16583626
>So you failed basic vocabulary enough for it to become a leech and then rage quit?
Yeah, basically. Something like 80% of my leeches are in common vocabulary. I don't really know any.

>It does have correct answer stats, mature stats and the like. That is what I thought you were judging it on.
No, I was talking about my actual retention.

>Picture please. Sounds interesting.
I'm not at my main computer right now, but someone did something similar a long time ago and it's what inspired me: http://desuarchive.org/a/thread/141543953/#141583429

>You can also drop the holier than thou act.
Why would I do that?

>You're coming off as a complete twat.
And you weren't?

>>16583637
>I don't really know any.
I don't really know why*

>>16583564
>I learn all Kanji and vocabulary appearing on each card, not just the bold one its focusing on. I've learned something like 150 new Kanji in the last two weeks as a result
You might be better off stopping that. Most words used in sentences have their own card later in the decks.

>>16583630
Yeah, I've been trying to squeeze as much as I could out of what I was doing before - writing everything + variations on them as I picked up new grammar, learning every Kanji I saw with reading in context of sentence, that kinda thing. Definitely worked for the grammar practise and Kanji, but now you mention compartmentalizing words I can really see that

>>16583643
>but now you mention compartmentalizing words I can really see that
That was someone else, I'm just trying to help you too.

>>16583646
I appreciate it!

>>16583637
>Link
Cheers.

>And you weren't?
I was keeping it real.

I view suspending as giving up. My mind won't change on that subject, so meh.

>>16583656
Cool. Peace.

https://youtu.be/MCmEG7T22Wk

Should I trust him bros?

i learned japanese, why do i still feel like shit

>>16583671
not enough porn

さくらが

くるよ

おにいちゃんも

きっとくるよね
http://sakura.weathermap.jp/smt/

>not studying kanji individually

Good luck on your recall and production.

dare i say... its getting a little easier to read

>>16583727
don't need it, it's going fine

>>16583727
By kanji you mean individual lines for them or kanji and its key word?
If 2nd, sauce me up on a good deck for anki pls.

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>>16583737
Haha y-yeah

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>>16583727
>production.

>>16583750
、の、

なんだろう、の、ってあたしにはよめないよ

>>16583748
>kanji and its key word?
If I'm understanding this post correctly give the Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course anki deck a look.

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Last time I was able to study Japanese which was about a year and a half ago I managed to complete the Core2k, now that I'm able to spend time on it again I feel like I should pick up where I left off.

The problem I have is that going slowly over the 2k again feels like it would take too long to make progress, but if I just slammed out hundreds a day to all 2k in a day I'd get burnt out by having way to many reviews for the next couple weeks and spend hours in Anki.

I'm not quite sure on the best way to approach this.
Any ideas?

>>16583838
You could try setting the easy interval on new cards to something like 10+ days. That'd give you room to breathe on cards you remember straight away. You could also adjust the interval modifier on reviews.

These two adjustments should hopefully blow out the scheduled review dates on your cards allowing you to power through the deck without getting completely swamped by reviews.

Once you're all sorted you can return the settings to normal.

>>16583863
Ah good point, I generally avoided messing with those before as I really didn't know how they worked, easy interval is straight forward but I guess I'll look into the interval modifier.

If I can figure it out something like 200~500"new" a day seems reasonable if they spread out the reviews a little more till I get back my rhythm.

Assuming you know a good way to play with the interval modifier, any suggestions based on the above number of "new" to go with off the top of your head?

おはようおにいちゃん

わらっているおにいちゃんが

すき

>>16583914
Thats kinda cute

でも死んでいるいもうとちの方ゃんがもっと好き。

>>16583922
隙のこと

>>16583964
あいあむぼす

すごいすきだらけだ

>>16583914
お前はスコップな

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What's the best way to learn counters? Should I add them to my mining deck just like words when I encounter them?

I just came across 丁 but since it can be used for so many different objects it seems like it would be very hard to remember them all.

How do you guys go about it?

>>16584132
Basically they don't even matter unless you see them so often that you learn them through exposure.

>>16584132
The answer to this and most other questions is the same: By reading.

>>16584137
I would still add them to my mining deck just to remember how they are pronounced

>確かに言われてみれば、辺りの倒壊しかけている建物は住居のように見えなくもない。
>見えなくもない
I know this means they look like it because of the double negative, but what is the nuance vs just writing 見える?

>>16584250
Your posts are bad and you should stop posting.

>>16584259
My posts are only the best (worst) and I will continue to post for the forseeable future (forever).

>>16584257
見えなくもない ≒ なんとか見える

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This is a dumb question, but bare with me.
How do I learn Japanese/a second language? Is it really just memorizing what all the words mean, or am I attaching certain concepts and thoughts to various kana...?

>>16584289
嗚呼、有難う御座います

>>16584292
We have a guide holy shit

>>16584292
>How do I learn Japanese
By reading.

>>16584321
Anybody who can learn a language successfully knows that the guide is garbage.

>>16584324
It answers his question correctly. It tells him to read.

>>16584325
How can he read if he doesn't know the language, retard

>>16584326
By reading it, obviously.

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>>16584326
>>16584327

>>16584327 (Successfully learnt Japanese)

>>16584331
It's true, I'm enjoying Prisma Illya in the raw, right now!

>>16584332
Pretty pictures =/= reading

>>16583008
Where might that offline archive be anon? I cannot access the site atm unfortunately. It gives me a connection timed out error.

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DJT why you gotta be so shit

>>16584337
https://github.com/postautistic/djt/archive/master.zip
Contains the entire site except the contents of external links.

>>16584339
>nsahub.com
Uh... Nope.

>>16584348
Just use a VPN if you're literally paranoid.

>>16584350
I don't want to support this website by visiting it.

>>16584352
You're leeching from it, not supporting it.

>>16584332
>I'm enjoying Prisma Illya in the raw

Yeah I wish I could enjoy Illya raw too...

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>>16584322
But how do I go about learning to read it?
At least with languages like French and Spanish there are roman letter for me to go off of.

>>16584354
Just read!

>>16584356
You start with less so it's harder to get started, but once you recognize common words (you don't even have to know what they mean yet, just know that they're common) and you can sound out the kana, picking up a sufficiently simple manga that has furigana is enough to keep you going, even if you get too mad to study.

Aside from that, you can study words and grammar outside of reading to make them easier to pick apart, but you only actually acquire them when you see them while reading.

>>16584353
Upload it to some better site if you want people to access it.
>You're leeching from it, not supporting it.
I'm definitely making it more popular, by which I am supporting it.

>>16584365
It's not mine, dude.

>>16584365
Would it still exist if you stopped using it

>>16584366
Where did I say otherwise?
>>16584371
>Would it still exist if you never started using it
Yes, that's more than likely.

>>16584339
Thanks a lot anon!

>>16583497
I wish I could compare my retention before and after I started on my meds, but only thing my before data shows is that I could never stick to routines.

>>16584250
You forgot the part when people are already reading comfortably, but can't write kanji for shit, going all the way back to RTK or something like that.

>>16584537
That's literally me, I can identify and read ezpz, but cant write for shit, what is the best way now for me to restudy?

>>16584537
Sure, but then you already know (enough) japanese, you just don't know how to write.

>>16584558
- Study radicals and their stroke order;
- Study kanji by kanji with two things in mind: How to write it, what is its general meaning.

If you want to attach mnemonics to remember radicals and whatnot, fine, but since you're already familiar with it, maybe it's not necessary.

I am not there yet, I'll probably also try to make groups of similar kanji, studying the difference between them can help. Specially then this difference makes sense, like in 描 / 猫

>>16584566
Enough to enter that pretty temple? I guess not!

>>16584584
>Enough to enter that pretty temple?
Yeah, not being able to handwrite doesn't mean you don't know japanese.

>>16584584
>I am not there yet
Then don't give advice.

>>16584584
U have any decks to rec on learning kanjis with their key meanings on anki? That would really help me.

>>16584602
The person you're taking advice from doesn't know enough about what they're doing to help you. Come back for help again later or try somewhere else.

この自閉症はどうしたもん

>>16584602
Get the Anki RTK deck, should be enough.

>>16584595
>>16584609
I have an idea: why don't YOU refrain from giving "advice"?

>>16583510
What level are Higurashi and Umineko?

>>16584701
They're level "bad writing that you don't want to read".

>>16584701
>>16584706
But if you're serious, then games of that sort are usually between 3~5. I say usually because there are exceptions that are easier since they reuse the same vocab and stick to relatively simple grammar.

>>16584706

Where do you think shounen like One Piece fall within that chart?

>>16584730
I haven't read any but I assume that they would be near 2. However shounen have full furigana and are therefore marginally easier if you're not looking up every single word.

>>16584706
>>16584724
Of course I'm serious, I'd like to re-read them in Japanese sometime. But I also saw someone in a past thread say that RK07's games are full of incorrect grammar and will reinforce bad habits if you read them as a beginner. Is that actually true or just hyperbole? Am I safe if I've already read a few other VNs?

>>16584763
They're not full of... "incorrect grammar", as such. Though I can see why people might say that. He just has bad prose.

Also, his games use logical gymnastics (as a matter of bad writing, not a matter of coolness) that, if you don't actually understand japanese grammar, will make you think you misunderstood something that you didn't.

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>tfw you forget to do anki
No perfect streak for me

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>>16584773

What the heck is 言ってらんない supposed to mean?

Full sentence for context:
>まぁ忙しいけど今が稼ぎ時なんで贅沢いってらんないっスよー

I can understand the first half...
>Well, it's busy but we're making mad bank right now so

But the ending has me totally stumped.

>>16584773
I was like that in the beginning. It's been over a year since I last skipped an Anki day, now. I'll never get those 19 days back, but I couldn't give a fuck, I deserve all the stains in my curriculum just as much as I deserve the merits.

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>>16584773
Don't worry, I'm here to make you all feel better about yourselves.

>>16584584
>I am not there yet, I'll probably also try to make groups of similar kanji, studying the difference between them can help.
Why are you giving advice that you literally don't even know whether it's good or not? Fuck off.

>>16584791
It's just いられない.
"... so we can't indulge in luxury (luxury to take a break)."

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What the actual fuck is she trying to say here?

Context is this chick is raping a dude. I get the part that today is a day she can get pregnant, but other than that, I have no idea what she's trying to say

>>16585206
The two parts in particular I'm asking about are

>俺ェ、じゃなかった私
>The entire second speech bubble

感情とは複雑なものです

>Emotions are complex things

Why is the と necessary here?

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>>16585359
Retard.

>>16585359
Some particular emotion or group of emotions
Emotions in general

>>16585134
Why are you even browsing DJT if you need reliable, fluent speakers' advice? What makes you think everyone posting "advice" here is proficient and I'm the only one giving advice above my own league?

Besides, you filthy, dimwitted monoglot, I have already done what I preach for some specific kanji that troubled me.
Examples like 猫描 or 待持 can easily be clarified by a radical analysis that is not needed when you just infer them from context.

>>16585429
Nothing you just said justifies the fact that you yourself are giving advice that you know hasn't been seen through to completion. Fuck off.

>>16585429
Giving wrong advice is worse than giving no advice.

>>16585438
>>16585449
Nice dodging skills. Debunking something without offering a replacement is even less productive. Get off DJT.

>>16585476
No replacement is necessary because not having any advice is literally better than having your advice.

You don't belong here.

>>16585476
>Debunking something without offering a replacement is even less productive
Wrong, actually. Pointing out idiots is helpful to the questing asker so they don't go on believing in misconceptions for months. Just shut up and learn Japanese yourself instead of sabotaging other people.

>>16585206
>>16585221
I have no idea what manga this is but it sounds like they're trying to convince whoever they're talking to that they're a girl so I take it it's a trap.
First bubble is them correcting themselves from a masculine pronoun (ore) to feminine (watashi). And that today is their "dangerous day" (ovulation).
Second bubble "I looked it up on runa*na" I assume that is runaruna which is a site for girls to check what days they ovulate.

Where does the いざ in いざという時, いざとなったら come from?

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>>16585641
Retard.

>>16585647
Maybe try not responding to someone if you're going to tell them something they literally can't not know.

>>16585527
>a site for girls to check what days they ovulate.

Japan never ceases to amaze me.

>>16585647
Not what I'm asking.

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>>16585484
>>16585487
You haven't pointed a single downside to the method I've proposed, which is not even anything absurd or out of the box, just what you'd usually expect people to do if they read the guide.
I speak 3 languages other than Japanese and am pretty confident in my advice, which I have already used partially to my own learning process with positive effects.

But that's okay, you don't have to address the discussion points or answer my questions if you don't want to, it's not like you're posting anything rationally and I won't force you to leave your comfort zone. DJT is, after all, also an important asylum for people with your condition.

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>>16585527
>convince whoever they're talking to that they're a girl so I take it it's a trap

No, the girl has been fucking the dude for a while now, so there's no reason why she would choose to now correct her pronoun.

Manga is an H manga called "[Kurodou Holdings "Kabu" (Kurodou Katana)] Omae no Iu Koto Nanka Kikumonka!"

Honestly I don't know where I found it or why I have it, but I stumbled across it early today while I was cleaning my computer out.

Here's the full page.

>>16585700
What are they doing on this image?

>>16585717
>完全脱出不可能全自動子作りバースターおんぶバーション
>The unescapable completely automatic baby making making machine: Piggyback Version

I think it should be obvious.

>Kid on on her back doesn't want to fuck
>she wants to fuck
>She did this

>>16585695
>You haven't pointed a single downside to the method I've proposed
Misinformation. Do you have brain damage?

>>16585641
Check the Japanese definition of いざ; it's not literally "now".

相手を誘って一緒に事を始めるときや思いきって行動しようとするときに発する語。さあ。どれ。「いざ、出かけよう」

>>16585795
You forgot a bubble.

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>>16585799
I was going to respond with "DIY" but decided against it.

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>>16585772
Okay, nigger, you win. Enjoy your autism.
I'm off to the language learning DJT. Frolic in your own shit all you want.

>>16585821
You are hereby banished from this thread.

I'm doing Kanji studying right now (aside from vocabulary and grammar studying) and I'd like to know if it makes sense to remember the main onYomi reading. I realize it is futile to learn all readings and I'm hoping to pick up most of them through vocabulary but I'd still like to at least somewhat associate one reading with each Kanji and I'm just wondering if it's the onYomi one that I'm best off remembering. Or maybe there is a tool or something that lets me determine which reading is used the most?

>>16585942
Nope. Learn the readings from vocabulary, no exceptions.

>>16585948
How about this: I create a vocabulary deck that has the main reading packed in a word. That way I combine the main reading and I learn vocabulary. Does that approach make more sense?

>>16585952
No.
http://jisho.org/search/%E5%9B%9E%20%23kanji

>>16585952
What do you mean? What I'm suggesting is: instead of deliberately telling yourself that 実 = じつ, you learn the words 果実, 真実, 実力, etc., by which you'll instinctively learn to associate the kanji 実 with the reading じつ. Learning readings separately is a huge waste of time.

How should one split their time between anki and reading?

Been reading VN with the vnr hooker lately, but for like a year I mostly used other ways to learn kanji/vocab with no reading and I'm having a hard time balancing now.

>>16585976
Anki is always a set time, there is no splitting. Stick to 20 new cards a day and do however much it takes to clear that + reviews. Then the rest of the day reading.

>>16585955
What is your point?

>>16585961
Right. I don't want to tell me 実 = じつ because I realize that approach might not be so efficient. What I want to do is when I come upon 実 as an example in my Kanji studies I will create an entry in my vocabulary deck for 果実. After I am finished studying Kanji I will have over 2000 vocabulary entries with the main readings. Now the question is whether doing that makes sense or if a better approach would be to just mine 2k and then start reading. Completely disregarding reading while Kanji learning seems to be the RTK approach which more or less results in you not being able to read anything at all. I am already studying vocabulary and grammar but when I finish with my Kanji studies I'd like to at least have a word with the main (or just one) reading in my head if that makes sense, so all the Kanji are not just keywords to me like in RTK but actual words that I can draw reference to.

>>16585942
If you are going to hear something in your head when you read a kanji without knowing what word it's in, then it might as well be the most common onyomi, since that's least likely to cause any kind of confusion or disruption.

>>16585994
You are right about that but I revised my thought in the previous post.
>>16585983

>>16585952
If you insist on learning readings, do so with KKLC, because it forces you to learn the readings in the context of words. Readings are parts of words, not parts of kanji.

What's with Japanese onomatopoeia? It's like they hear things on a whole other dimension

>>16586135
https://www.academia.edu/1470397/On_Japanese_Mimetic_Echo_Words

How can there be no scans of volumes 3-5 of 終末なにしてますか? 忙しいですか? 救ってもらっていいですか? anywhere on the internet? Do they just not exist?

>>16586348
The same reason there aren't for hundreds of other LN series.

>>16586348
People don't really pirate genre fiction that often.

>>16586359
>>16586361
You'd think for the really popular and good ones like this, there would be though.
Where's the best place I can buy them with my foreign credit card? Amazon?

>>16586382
Amazon is the best yeah. Also you just missed their sale, all the volumes were reduced to like 200 yen each.

Just a little ecchi haiku (*´ω`*　)

混浴で
耽る妄想
谷間チラ

Anyone want to have a go at writing one too?
Remember: 5-7-5

>>16586463
わんわんだ
わんわんわんだ
わんわんだ

>>16586463
古池や
蛙飛びこむ
水の音

Don't plagiarize please.

妹と
極度の至福
避妊漏れ

>>16586135
くぱぁ

>>16586463
I call it, The Feeling of Working in a Group

あああああ
ああああああああ
あああああ

Can someone please explain exactly what 「反省ちぅ」 means?

I obviously understand the 反省 part, but this seems to be some sort of colloquialism that I'm having trouble finding a clear definition for.

>>16586886
Posting the full sentence would help, but I would guess という.

>>16586893
It's not a sentence. It's a sign and that's the whole thing.

>>16586886
chi-lu is an orthographic variant of chi-lyu

Can I configure anki to jumble the order of my reviews? At present they're given to me from oldest to newest; I'd prefer if it were purely random.

>>16587034
Unfortunately no.

>>16586886
>>16586900
Maybe 注?

>>16586886
中
反省中
But kind of cutesy.

>>16586463
カズヤ君
救いは無いね！？
やっぱりな

魑魅魍魎

Literally indistinguishable

>>16587886
Good thing you only need to know the second one, then.

how am i supposed to read kanji on my monitor?

>>16587886
this looks impossible to read even if i knew the characters.

I tried reading some manga (Umaru and Keijo) even though I've only reached the を, に, and へ particles in Tae Kim, and I can't understand 90% of what I'm reading. Is it normal at this stage or I'm just retarded?

>>16587958
You get used to it. Knowing the words you're reading also helps, of course.

>>16587971
>Is it normal at this stage
Of course. You basically don't know anything yet. I'd suggest finishing Tae Kim at least.

>>16587971
>I've only reached the を, に, and へ particles in Tae Kim

You should be fluent already.

欹てる
Just unearthed a nice kanji for my DJT friends. どうぞ

>>16586463
柿食えば
鐘が鳴るなり
法隆寺

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>>16588168
She's great but I think we can agree who best girl is.

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i just found out there was a workbook section for reading and writing in genki I (after getting to chapter 11)

time to scribble

>>16588480
>かばん
F.

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>>16588480
Spoiler this shit anon

>>16588480
口語表現はテストのひょうげんとはちがうけど、口語もききとれなきゃいつまでたってもDekinaiよ

１．時計は５万弱
２．バッグは５千ちょい
３．山中はだいたい６時起き
４．川口は７時から大学
５．鈴木は０時には寝ている
６．あそこのカフェの１８０円のコーヒー○○さんとこのあいだ行ったんだけど、すっごくおいしそうだったよ
６．たまにサ店でコーヒー、ワンコインで

how would you say something had two heads, is that a counter or just like 二頭の鬼がコーヒーをのこのこに飲むだ

>>16588778
わかんない

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>>16588680
interesting, thanks for the info

>>16588508
>>16588658

>>16588942
答えなさい

>>16588778
Wikipedia calls Cerberus 三つの頭を持つ犬

>>16588778
双頭.

>>16588964
>>16588965
ah thanks, this is crucial

>>16588959
しゃべりはぜんぜんちがうから
テストにはでないけど、にほんにきたらつかってね

１．金曜日はにほんじんのおともだちといっしょだったの
２．土曜日は１０時半におきたの
３．月曜日にお寺にお参りしたの
４．本が机の上にあるでしょ、その下に新聞ない？

おとこことばでかくと
１．金曜？友達と飯くった、日本人の
２．土曜日は十時半起き
３．寺行った、月曜
４．新聞紙、そこの机の上の本の下

４みたいな言い方されるとちょっとむかつくよ

I'm going to be without a working computer or internet connection for most of today. I don't have a smartphone either.

What can I do to study Japanese in that time?

>>16589022
Why won't you have a working computer?

If you don't have any physical media you're screwed

>>16589035
Because I'm going to be spending the day fixing it.

And yeah, that's what I thought. I can't think of anything I can do to practice or study without a computer.

>>16589044
Then fix your computer and continue studying with that?

>>16589113
I think it's going to take me the best part of a day, and a lot of that time is going to be spent sitting around waiting for things to install or download, so I was hoping to have some way of studying Japanese which I could use to fill all the waiting time.

>>16589120
You could, like, buy some manga.

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しょう５こくご

おにいちゃん

れっつとらい
http://happylilac.net/kanjiQ5.html

>>16589132
１０このうち９こはすぐわかったんだけど

いっこ、ちょっとむずかしいかも

>まぁ、三ヶ月くらいどうって事はないか。
I'm not sure I get this sentence or what the どうって means here. I know the って is the quotation one but the meaning doesn't come to me

So I'm going to take the N1 this summer, despite the fact my level is way above that joke of a test because apparently I need a piece of paper proving I actually know Japanese. Sad! Arigatou for reading my nikki-chou

>>16589203
>どうって事はない
Synonymous to 大したことはない

>>16583503
I don't think this list is right noble works has some business terms thats kinda confusing, darcu riot has some medical terms, plus covers a bunch of other stuff.
You really need to lower the scale. Put nichijou stuff.

I get those games are fun but they might be too hard for beginners due to being diverse.

Kanojou no seiki is pretty simple, it covers very simple stuff.

>>16589317
The assumption is that anyone reading VNs at that stage is using a texthooker (but not a parser) so jargon shouldn't usually be confusing. That's why axanael is allowed in the first tier, even.

You're free to replace them yourself if you want.

can someone recommend an audioblog that isn't jpod tier. Their stuff is good but the hosts are fucking annoying.

Preferably to do with culture or politics.

ひめじょおん

ひめじょおん

ひめじょおん

へんななまえ

ふふ

Does anyone else get these days when everything feels weird and nothing just clicks in your head?

>>16589950
Not really. I do get it after reading for like 4-5 hours though. Seems to be the limit for my brain.

>>16589950
This.

Get some rest or sleep, maybe jack off that built up stress, play a vidya, read some non-Japanese book, whatever. Then try coming back to reading that VN or Manga. Works for me.

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I think I understand what Yoko Taro is saying here, but I'm not sure about the sentence structure:

>ルダのこの魚人族
Why the double の?

>>16590142
ゼルダの
この人魚族

This sentence just came up for the second time in a flashback, and it made me think that maybe the half-guess which I left it with the first time could be totally wrong:

アリス「創部したことで満足して、仲間を増やそう、成績を　残そうと努力せず、甘えている部もあるのではないか？」

The main thing is, what kind of と am I looking at here? I feel like if I can just figure out what the と is doing, the rest might just fall into place.

>>16590195
An "and"? Leaving behind your grades (i.e. not caring about them) and not putting in any effort. It's a lazy club for waster scum.

>>16590195
volitionalと努力 is similar to volitionalとする. "Without making an effort to recruit more members or leave a mark".

>>16590208
That's not what 成績を残す means.

>>16590218
I was thinking if the earlier verbs were volitional and not "seeming" then they would need a quoting particle somewhere, is that the role of と努力せず then? It would be like quoting the meaning/intention behind their actions. Could it even make sense to think of the various forms of とする that way?

>>16590287
Yeah. The と after 残そう is performing that role with regard to both 残す and the earlier verb 増やす.

All I wanna do is practice my production but it takes me like half an hour to write a sentence

>>16590522
Sounds like you need to practice.

>>16590550
It'd be nice if we could practice with each other

>>16590522
>it takes me like half an hour to write a sentence
I think you should try learning japanese before practicing production.

>>16590553
Anon, I... I think it's better to practice with people who will correct your errors and not teach you their own errors, i.e. fluent speakers.

>>16590555
I've been reading for almost 3 years now, my vocabs 20k+, I can read pretty much anything that isn't overly ridiculous, just I can't produce to save my life because I never bothered practising

>>16590581
How do I avoid becoming like you?

>>16590569
I know, but I really think it'd be a lot of fun to learn with other people and would help encourage new learners to not give up so easily

>>16590590
Throw yourself in front of a train

>>16590594
Do you even know what board you're posting on?

Would KKLC or Kanji in Context be best for someone who prefers pure memorisation.

>>16590596
Sounds like you've done it already
>>16590597
A lot of people from this board are very friendly

>>16590601
>A lot of people from this board are very friendly
A lot of people on this board are asocial.

>>16590594
Isn't that the point of the thread?
>>16590590
By practicing production.

>>16590599
KKLC is easier to use with flashcards.

>>16590601
>A lot of people from this board are very friendly

This is the jp thread not the int one, you clicked the wrong tab

>>16590569
>>16590594
When you post spoilers, please remember to include where they are from!

>>16590522
>>16590553
Hellotalkを使う

>>16590615
Alrighty thanks.
Already have about 800~ under my belt, just being able to read them, but need something to help me get the writing side nailed down.

>>16590626
それともLANG-8

>>16590604
A lot of them also aren't
>>16590609
I think text-boards can only go so far in helping others. I really don't think there's a negative to someone who's capable of running one, say, starting a group and getting people talking.

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>披露
>ひろう
>お披露目
>おひろめ
>ひろ

>>16590637
>I think text-boards can only go so far in helping others.
When it comes to language they go much further than talking, as long as you don't have a native speaker at hand. In text you can 100% reproduce native language. In speech you cannot. Period.

>>16590642
Oh.

>>16590640
It's assimilation. You don't pronounce the k in "bookkeeper" twice.

まじですか、俺は読みやすい本だけ読めるしほとんど文法がないのに書きするのが簡単です。もちろんたくさん失敗があるけど臆病な気分にならない。
どうして怖いの？そのままで決して学べないだろうね！

>>16590647
Yeah, that's basically the pivotal problem. If it weren't for the whole "pronunciation and prosody" thing, JSLs would be better at instructing learners via speech since they know what the problems are like. But there's just that one problem.

>>16590640
Tell whoever you're quoting that it's because お披露目 is ateji.

>>16590626
I am using it, and I want to use it more, but I just keep getting demotivated because of how mentally exhausting thinking up sentences is

>>16590637
>I really don't think there's a negative
Community backlash. Trying to start up an outside community is always frowned upon by /jp/, and ensuing drama would probably just get all discussion on it deleted.

>>16590691
The group wouldn't have to be limited to /jp/.

/djt/ doesn't require a social group off-board to keep it going, but it feels like there's a gap that's being closed in a lot of the communities on this site where they're using software services to encourage whatever it is that they're interested in, whereas /djt/ posters are locked in an isolated mindset of grinding anki, reading, and using apps to communicate with natives while remaining in some way disconnected from each other.

Of all the groups that involve text based communication, you'd think even the most social of people who use this board would want to talk to each other. Maybe they're just happy with sites like hellotalk though.

>>16590762
DJT is an anonymous Japanese learning thread, not a chatroom. It's not a place to make friends.

>>16590771
You think so?

>>16590762
I can see the appeal, but I'm saying people won't let it happen. It goes too strongly against community principle.

>>16590772
出てやがれ、糞リア充！

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>>16590771
Anonymous means posting without a name, not lacking a name and identity entirely.

>>16590762
There's already places like this anyways, you don't need to connect them to /djt/.

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>>16590781
You're not my friend!! 馬鹿!

>>16590779
リア充最高！！！

よっしゃー！
なんと初めての書き込みが大成功した気がするじぇぇー！(｀・▽・´)o彡゜
4ch民のクズ共がこんなにノリがいいとは思わなかったよ。

てかレスが遅くなってすまん。
ニートライフって色々あって忙しいんだよ。


>>16586469
う、うぜぇ(・´з`・)

なぜか犬耳付きの可愛い二次元美少女を想像させる。
ぐぬぬ…首輪をつけて持ち帰りてぇ(*´Д`)ﾊｧﾊｧ（←駄目な人間）


>>16586520
ああ、確かに盗作しては行けないな。
俺も頑張ってオリジナルの俳句を作ろうぜ…

五月雨
集めて早し
最上川

　　　－名無しさん

( ﾟДﾟ)ｵﾚｽｹﾞｪ


>>16586565
まさかのシスコンかよ！さすが4ch民だな。
責任取れ、この野郎！（笑）

いや、俺も嫌でもないし何も言えねぇが・・・
その調子に乗って書いたやつ↓

妹の
部屋を覗いて
バレたかな


>>16586783
まじウケるｗ
これを読んでガチで吹いたよ。
俺も書くか。

同期生
爆発しろよ
リア充も

>>16590935
>五月雨
>集めて早し
>最上川
誠に素晴らしき作品である
お主はきっとこの俺の様な大詩人になれるぞい

>>16590935
>ニートライフって色々あって忙しいんだよ。
皆はエロゲとかで忙しいなんだからカキコする暇はないじゃないかと思う

>しかも途中で催してきてしまいまして。
What's the meaning of 催して here? The 途中 refers to a speech he was holding.

>>16591044
Starting the speech halfway through? Not sure.

>>16591061
No, I figured it out thanks to chrome rikai. For some reason it had this words extra definition when firefoxs rikaisama didn't, even though the latter is usually the more comprehensive one...
Anyways, it can also mean getting sick etc. so here it means midway through the speech he started shaking.

>>16591044
催す = 尿意を催す

I feel retarded. My retention rates for learning & young cards are absolutely awful...

>>16591255
Read more.

http://hyakugo.kyoto.jp/contents/seireki.php

Public index of as-photographed early japanese writing, going back to the 700s.

>>16591290
>百合文書を
>閉じた

Every time I encounter a word that has to do with heat or fire when I'm reading I get them mixed up. They all give off a similar feeling so I never know how to pronounce it but I know what it means.

>>16591255
Doesn't matter one bit so long as your mature cards are OK and you aren't making any leeches. In fact, in a way it's a sign that you're using anki properly, because if you didn't forget anything that would be a sign that you have spare capacity.

>>16591439
>because if you didn't forget anything that would be a sign that you have spare capacity
Applying that logic to extreme forgettingness defies how SRS works.

>>16591499
It can't be that extreme if you aren't making any leeches