What's your stance on machines ?

meme first post

We must destroy the machines before they achieve sentience and destroy us

stupid. my fat friend can max most of them out and thinks hes accomplishing something

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>>42128495
your "fat" friend is strong af and you're jealous

machines are better if you're not a validation seeking wannabe tough guy

>>42128481
Mostly just work individual muscles, free weights tend to be better at overall brogression. Using weights mainly and machines to work on shoulders, lats, triceps, etc. is the way to go desu

>>42128506
yeah. He played football in highschool. I bet he could squat 3 and dl 4 his 2nd try, but he doesnt wanna.

>>42128481
Good to do after an actual excercise. Chest press after bench press for example.

Good for strip sets/finishers.

>>42128481
Good for use if you're freshly injured

Do you consider cables machines ?

>>42128481
Do for isolations after compounds.

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>>42128493
We better destroy ourselves so we won't build the machines that would destroy us.

>>42128481
Battle stance, but I switch to defensive stance on lat pull-downs.

>>42128481
They're good to use if you're injured or in some cases don't want to put as much stress on your joints (although some machines make this a moot point).
There are issues with loading and how resistance doesn't seem to be uniform (eg 100 pounds on one cable machine will feel different on a different one) but that can be ameliorated by simply always using the same machine.
I wouldn't build a routine off of them entirely because I don't find them as fun as free weights, but I'm also not going to say that they aren't valuable.
There are many paths to fitness (I have no clue what this word means anymore) and I think that the most important thing is to do what you enjoy while being active.

>>42128481
Cable stuff is quite versatile, and I'm partial to leg curls.

>>42128529
This

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How to replace this?

>>42129159
Cables are basically free weights

>>42129245
dumbbells or cables lying face up on a bench

>>42129263
they don't have a consistent resistance curve like pec deck thi

>not doing some euphoric sets of cable flys after a filthy bench sesh

never gunna make it

I use certain machines, as well as free weights and the bench.

>>42130094

>not doing proper bench so have to compensate for low pec involvement and do flies

>>42128481
Anything other than barbell compound lifts is a waste of space, time and energy, unless you have very specific weaknesses or imbalances that can only be fixed by using such a device.

>>42130244
you're a waste

>>42130094
>low pec development

nigga u got low brain development, cable flys are the shit

I think they're good at the end of the workout, after barbell and dumbbell training, to really isolate and tire out the last bit of muscle fibers

>>42130244
show ur body

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Cables are better than dumbbells in many instances
Cables offer more functionality in many other instances
Machines are fantastic for adding heavier weights to existing lifts by isolating or restricting movement
Machines are fantastic for removing exhaustion and other restrictions of free weights
Leg curl/extension machines are particularly great for a constant stream of girls arses to view between sets

Plenty other benefits but basically anyone who has a problem with machines simply doesn't lift very much yet

>go to nautilus machine for chest after doing 315 for reps on the bench
>"does a machine like yourself ever experience fear"

>>42130793
yeah they are a pretty shit exercise

>>42130244
This is correct
I wasted 7 months in a gym on machines 'making progress' i.e. being able to do heavier weights but then I got a real barbell and i was far weaker on the same lifts than I thought.
Leg press is fine, same for rear deltoid flies, hamstring curls etc. but stay away from machines

>>42129107
severely underrated post

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>>42131359
just nuts and bolts

>>42130244
A friend of mine thinks that way. Decent body, overall good gains, HOWEVER his triceps are weirdly underdeveloped. There's risks to not doing isolation exercises.

>>42131414
Tell your friend to do weighted dips

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>>42129107
I kek'd

>>42129107
>not being berserker stance your entire workout

>>42128529
Nah mate they will fuck up your joints, they force you into a specific range of motion, I can feel it in my shoulders whenever I use a chest press or shoulder press or anything

Preacher curl machine is GOAT tho

>>42128481
the only acceptable machines are:
- lat machine (cable pulldown)
- seated cable row
- adjustable cable machines for face pulls/triceps pushdown/cable kickbacks (if woman)
- piss flaps and reverse piss flaps machine (if woman)
- leg press (only as a complement to squats)

Anything else is shit and the smith machine is the most baitful of all of them

>>42131545
I like the leg extension and leg curl machines as well.

>>42131592
>leg extension
rip patella
>leg curl
literally do romanina or straight leg deadlifts if you want to hit hamstrings more

>>42131641
problem is I wanna get huge quads and I hate all quad exercises apart from the leg extension machine.

>>42128481
Machines are literally for fat people and woman

>>42131241

>legpress
>deltoid flies

you need to fucking kys

>>42132664
>you need to fucking kys
Without resorting to memes, can you even make an actual argument about why what I said was wrong?
I will wait

>>42131471
there is always a machine with a different rom in case one isn't right for you

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>>42133122
>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up with your current one

>>42129245
Dumbell flyes.

And as for >>42130057 - come back when you're Arnold and we'll discuss that one further.

>>42128481
As a few others have said, good for those wanting to scope things out after injury, but you can do this with free weights too.

I like the fact normies use them as they're too scared of free weights. Keeps the free weight area a little more quiet.

On the flip-side, I do like and use some of them. Squats are king, but I'll sometimes throw some heavy leg press in afterwards. Calf raise machine is pretty decent too, but that's more politeness as it stops me using up an entire squat rack and barbell with a simply accessory exercise.

>>42133290
hack squats, leg press, shoulder press, peck deck, etc. tell me, what's "unnatural" about the rom on these? i get smith machine can be unnatural for some movements like squats but that's dodging the question to use that as an example every time.

depends on the machine

cables are great for doing time under tension work
calf press is pretty decent

most of them will mess you up longterm though because they force you into specific angles and the joints just don't work like that

use them sparingly ontop of a free weight routine and you'll be fine

>>42134085
>shoulder press
completely unnatural ROM. I remember the old days when the appointed PT pointed me to a shoulder press machine. I told him it was hurting me. He suggested to lower the stance. I told him it was hurting me again. He suggested to move to a different shoulder press machine (both were technogym, so not exactly cheap shit)
Eventually I educated myself when I switched gym and started doing bb OHP. Never looked back. Never had pain nor signs of impingement again.
>pec deck
pretty much a meme. I did that in my early days. I stopped being a chestlet when I moved to bb flat and db incline bench press.
>leg press
is the only salvageable one, but for God's sake, don't really believe it's on par with skwats
>hack squats
sled hack squat? literally why, nigga. It's even worse than the smith squat. If you aren't recovering and you don't have a very good reason to isolate bi-dimensionally quads (e.g. after an injury) just fucking squat

Newbie here. I know 3x5 and 5x5 are good for beginners with squats and bench and so on, but every kind of reps should I be looking for on machines?

I still don't get barbell rows, so I'm trying machine rows. But clearly it's not working at much or as hard, should I do 3x10?

>>42134428
>kind of reps should I be looking for on machines?
0 is the magic number.

>I still don't get barbell rows
can't you really row the empty barbell?
>machine row
if it's not seated cable row, drop it

>>42134262
shoulder press machine isn't completely unnatural. it's literally exactly the same as ohp except your head isn't the way which means a more optimal bar path. people who hate machines are just broken faggots.

>>42134617
>0
C'mon man, I'm tryin' here. Surely machine work is better than no work.

>can't you really row the empty barbell?
I should've been more specific: my form is shit. I don't understand the lift yet. Maybe I should watch some tutorials.

>seated cable row

I assume that's what it is. I sit on the machine, put my legs up, and pull the handle towards me extending the cable.

I'm a beginner, obviously.

>>42134679
>it's literally exactly the same as ohp
No, it's not.
>your head isn't [in] the way which means a more optimal bar path
dear motherfucking God, shoulder ROM is a completely different set, game and championship
you'll be able to hit the optimal bar path ONLY with standing OHP. Try lifting weights sometimes.
>people who hate machines are just broken faggots.
Your father is a broken faggot.

>>42134682
>Surely machine work is better than no work.
No, they're not.
>I should've been more specific: my form is shit. I don't understand the lift yet. Maybe I should watch some tutorials.
Watch more tutorials or ask the 55 yo resident powerlifter gymcel guy to spot you.
>seated cable row
cables haven't a fixated path and are usually fine. Try to do them with a full range of motion, that is, without keeping the back completely straight. Some gyms have cable row machines where you'll be able to perform only the "straight back" variant. If you can avoid splinting your back during the execution of the exercise you'll become more self-aware of your back muscles. Go watch some tutorial about it anyway. Ex.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/CBSeatedRow.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A77hAjcpN1s

>>42128481
sitting

Some machines are okay. Cable machines in particular are really useful for weird shit like face pulls and cable crunches. I also like the pec deck.

That being said I only use machines for assistance exercises and supplementary movements. I don't ever really feel like I make gains from them except for in really specific cases.

>>42134728
you forgot to include a single point in this umm... "argument". by exactly the same i mean the movement pattern does not introduce any additional hardships on your joints as you implied.

>>42135213
Shoulders have a peculiar limited ROM due to limited subacromial space, rotator cuffs impingements and supraspinatus injuries are a common occurrence to anyone who doesn't care about their rotator cuff ROM. Only a three-dimensional plane allows anyone to fully take into account the morphological features of such a limited and peculiar articulation. Many gym offer different "shoulder press machines" because of this, people have different ROM on their shoulders. It's not even a matter of acquiring a good shoulder mobility. People who can ROM the shit out of your puny DYEL ass and who can perform behind-the-neck presses without any issues may have impingement if they try a shoulder press machine that just doesn't fit their ROM. (Not that a behind-the-neck press is commendable at all, but it does require excellent shoulder ROM).
A fixated path for OHP is a no-no.
Go choke on a dick and fuck off.

>>42128481

We're all going to be replaced by them?

Not the biggest fan of them since they don't work any of the shit that stabilizes shit.

>>42135360
> Shoulders have a peculiar limited ROM due to limited subacromial space
yeah take a neutral grip machine press problem solved
> Only a three-dimensional plane allows anyone to fully take into account the morphological features of such a limited and peculiar articulation
the only reason why you don't ohp straight up and straight down is because your head is in the way dumpshit
> Many gym offer different "shoulder press machines" because of this, people have different ROM on their shoulders
exactly so you have no excuses anymore

you're dumb as fuck. quit posting retard.

Perfect to use as a supplemental workout.

Example: Chest I will use free weights and then go to a machine to burnout. It's safe and I don't need a spot. I can also adjust the weight in seconds.

Nothing beats free weights, but machines are great as a secondary workout.

>>42135774
>I'm an underage idiot: the post

>>42135797
It's sad that so many gym don't have safety arms on their chest stations. Mine has 4~5 inches safety arms (not so different from safety pins in the cage) and it's fixed at ~1 inch beneath my usual bench press position (slightly arced back). Chestlets maybe have to adopt a "powerlifting" position in order to touch chest at each rep but honestly it's so much convenient.

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>>42135774
>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up with your current one

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>>42135976
>putting my arms straight up and down is an unnatural rom

>>42129067
This. You should kys you're self just to be sure, OP.

>>42136020
moving arms over a fixated vertical path not elected by your scapular and rotator cuffs is literally what causes 100% of the shoulder-related injuries. The fixated plane movement could have been caused because of an incident, an incorrectly executed exercise or because of a non suitable machine. Given the lack or ROM on the subacromial space, the rotator cuff should be given ANY chance to express itself to avoid straining even if it there's not direct impingement. Head retraction is completely irrelevant in this wandering for optimal ROM of your cuffs. Putting your arms STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN on a plane non elected by your shoulders is literally the WORST possible thing you can to them.

>>42136171
in an ohp the rom is literally straight up and down the only reason you move the bar is because your head is in the way. quit posting retard.

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>>42136020
>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because you don't know what's a natural ROM is

>>42136193
your dumb

>>42136190
>He moves arms ups and down parallel to the body
>He doesn't have a human rotator cuff to begin with
>His rotator cuff moves on a literal VERTICAL plane during the whole execution
>>42136207
Enough shitposting for today, kid.

>>42136229
yes the bar path is perfectly vertical on an ohp. the only, only reason it isn't is because your head is in the way. restating it ironically doesn't change this fact. dumbbells are literally straight up and down too.

>>42134944
>>42129107
you guys suck at this joke, it's:
"Stance? I usually sit on them while I workout"

>>42136253
your rotator cuffs don't move on the bar path. Restating idiotically and frantically that your rotator cuffs move on the same vertical plane won't change the fact that they don't. It's not by chance that NO shoulder press machine moves on a literal vertical path; on the horizontal plane they tend to mimic OHP since generally the cuffs move at best @30° in frontal plane (the never move at 0° when going up and a 90° in the front is wrong too) and yet machines can't adjust the sagittal plane nor the frontal plane for each individual peculiarities. And subacromial space is so damn small.
You lack basilar concepts regarding human anatomy and about the mechanics of OHP. You don't even seem to know that the same OHP machines neglect the whole hypothesis of your blabbering. Moreover you seem underage and autismal enough to persevere in shitposting.
Fuck off, kid.

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>>42136253
>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because you don't know what's a natural ROM is

>>42136410
an ideal vertical press is straight up and down. anything less is your own failure to perform the movement correctly or in this case a limitation of the implement being used eg the barbell. nothing you've posted about rotator cuffs can be solved by a barbell but rather by reducing shoulder ration by using a neutral grip and has nothing to do with bar path. kys retard.

>>42136436 (You)

>>42136452
>an ideal vertical press is straight up and down.
You seem to be not just retarded and underage, but illiterate too. If you can't distinguish between the movement of your rotator cuffs and the movement of the barbell I seriously hope you don't step your feet outside of your basement without the supervision of an adult.

>>42136480
if your hands are locked into position on the barbell and the bar moves straight up and down then your rotator cuffs are not doing anything differently on a machine or a bar or dbs or anything you dumb cuck. quit posting retard.

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>>42136452
>>42136502
>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because you don't know what's a natural ROM is

>>42136502
>your rotator cuffs are not doing anything differently
>>42136410
>your rotator cuffs don't move on the bar path. Restating idiotically and frantically that your rotator cuffs move on the same vertical plane won't change the fact that they don't. It's not by chance that NO shoulder press machine moves on a literal vertical path; on the horizontal plane they tend to mimic OHP since generally the cuffs move at best @30° in frontal plane (the never move at 0° when going up and a 90° in the front is wrong too) and yet machines can't adjust the sagittal plane nor the frontal plane for each individual peculiarities. And subacromial space is so damn small.
>You lack basilar concepts regarding human anatomy and about the mechanics of OHP. You don't even seem to know that the same OHP machines neglect the whole hypothesis of your blabbering. Moreover you seem underage and autismal enough to persevere in shitposting.
>Fuck off, kid.

>>42136509
i bet you respond to this post with another dumbfrog avatar pasta

you're wrong and dumb btw

>>42136520
why are you copying your own completely and utterly wrong and fucking retarded post? nothing in it contains anything useful or relevant to the discussion. you don't know how the shoulder works and you don't even know how to ohp correctly. kys retard

>>42131371
i wonder if anyone gets this meme.

>>42136542
>my lever shoulder press moves on a perfectly vertical plane
>oh wait it doesn't

>my rotator cuff doesn't take advantage of three-plane movements on bb OHP, regardless of head retraction
>oh wait it does take advantage of any adjustment on frontal and sagittal plane since it doesn't move directly in the vertical plane

>I somehow assume to know something
>I won't even attempt tor read anything
>I'm here just to shitpost
>lelelele you dumb kys utterly wrong perfectly vertical retarded no u

What a waste of biological material.

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>>42136542
>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because of a skewed and abstract perception of reality

>>42136596
take a dumbbell
now ohp it
if it traveled any direction but straight up and down
you're doing it wrong
your rotator cuff cannot defy the laws of gravity
now hang yourself from a palm tree retard

>>42136657
SURE the path of the dumbbells is PERFECTLY STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN
and you don't even need to retract your head to let a dumbbell pass!!!11
uh-oh! but your scapula and your rotator cuffs STILL DON'T FUCKING MOVE STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN
uh-oh! but your shoulders MOVE ON THE SAGITTAL AND FRONTAL PLANE IF YOU USE DB TOO!
By the way, lever shoulder press machines DON'T MOVE ON VERTICAL PLANE IF THE PERFECT PATH IS STRAIGHT-UP-AND-DOWN!
Pottery!
Maybe because you can't move your back, shoulders and scapula freely when you're sitting in a lever machine and forced to use a fixated path?
Naaaah, it can't be!

but hey, let's restate
>idiotically and frantically that your rotator cuffs move on the same vertical plane
even if
>won't change the fact that they don't. It's not by chance that NO shoulder press machine moves on a literal vertical path
Let's add some kys variant too!

You are required if not some knowledge at least some interest in /fit/-related stuff to post on this board. A complimentary IQ above 90 would be nice too. For mere shitposting you can head to >>>/b/ but don't make it so blatantly evident that you're underage.

>>42136752
> Maybe because you can't move your back, shoulders and scapula freely when you're sitting in a lever machine and forced to use a fixated path?
uh yes you can. all of those things move just as freely
quit posting retard

preemptive response because you're slow and boring:
the only thing that doesn't move freely is the bar path

you arms, wrists, shoulders, elbows and back can all move around on a machine the only thing fixed is your hands to the bar and the path of it. now kys retard.

@42136776
@42136840
>my shoulder press machine dynamically adapts a NON-VERTICAL movement to my rotator cuff movements
uh-oh it doesn't
>it's not a FIXATED PATH even if IT'S FIXATED
uh-oh it doesn't
>I'll OHP PERFECTLY STRAIGHT UP in a lever machine already attempting to mimick frontal and sagittal OHP planes
>I'll introduce even more imbalances and asymmetries to fix a NON VERTICAL movement
>there are more OHP machines with different paths just to suit different PERFECTLY UNNATURAL NATURAL MOVEMENTS
but hey you can contort and adapt THE ROM OF YOUR CUFFS while you're sitting and forced over a fixed NON VERTICAL path!11

>>>/b/
>>>/x/
Enough.

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>>42136851
see
>>42136840

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>>42136840
>there is always a machine with a different unnatural ROM when you've finished fucking your shit up because you attempted to work around a different unnatural ROM
>>42136874
man, I dare, I double dare you to find a shoulder press machine like that (without back seat, allowing any kind of grip, not limiting your lateral and frontal movement) in a three-dimensional gym

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>>42136944
sure thing

you can also slide a flat bench under a smith machine then kys for being retarded

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>>42136953
>sure thing
yeah, sure. It doesn't exist outside of exrx.
>you can also slide a flat bench under a smith machine then kys for being retarded
I'd rather slide your mother's piss flaps under the t-bar executioner machine for having birthed such a natural ROM expert

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>>42137028
a lever shoulder press machine is about as common as they come dumpshit

and i dunno why you're so obsessed with no back support since seated shoulder press with dbs is literally the same thing.

>>42128481
Some are really good, and some are basically redundant.

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>>42137116
>a lever shoulder press machine is about as common as they come dumpshit
That ( >>42136874 ) is not even a lever seated shoulder machine. It's a barbell apparatus where the trainee as placed a bench. It doesn't really provide any benefit over a standard barbell seated OHP (e.g. unracking from a bench station) and honestly it does make so little sense to bind a barbell on a arched path that you'll literally find it nowhere.
This one ( >>42137116 ) is again not a shoulder press machine, but a reclinable bench placed under a smith. Slightly worse than >>42136874, the trainee has to frantically travel upwards and backwards whilst training deltoids bi-dimensionally like any other exercises mimicked in the smith machine (when you'll attempt to lift the same weight in a standard OHP, you'll fail)
Seated shoulder press is not the same thing. For seated I mean a seat like >>42136874. If for some reason you insist in sitting on a reclinable bench (I see them some insecure newbies doing that in my gym) you'll constantly notice that the trainee doesn't keep his back firmly pressed against the backseat and he dictates path of the dbs and ROM of cuffs, in a fashion similar to >>42136874 but without the need to hump that back and forth. And he'll shoulders, arms and back in the three planes. With that said, db seated press is pretty much suboptimal, better train your forearm stabilizers somewhere else.
Here, have a convenient lever machine for your abs you'll totally find in your gym.
>implying you ever visited a gym
Your backpedaling is overall pathetic.

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>>42137116
>a lever shoulder press machine is about as common as they come
>dumpshit
Cuuuute, third-grade namecalling and syntax
you totally proved that's a shoulder press machine

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>>42137262
>shifting goalposts this hard in an attempt to save face
ahahhaahahaah

i posted a lever arm press machine, a smith machine which can be a shoulder press machine and a guy doing hand stand push ups against a wall because it's the exact same motion as a machine. not only this but you can easily build a shoulder press machine for yourself by getting a rack with lever arm attachments. now go kys you dumb faggot and quit wasting other people's time with your worthless responses.

>>42136953
>bodyweight upside-down OHP is somewhat an exercise performed in a machine
really activates my almonds

@42137345
Kid, you're the only one shifting goalposts here. You're the only one blatantly ignorant on both OHP mechanics and shoulder press machines. What you posted are the definition of "not shoulder press machines" and the differences between five exercises (on a fancy fixed-arch lever arm apparatus/on smith/with db, seated/with bb, seated/OHP standing) have been eviscerated regardless of your utterly pathetic backpedaling. Curious how only free weights OHPs travel on the natural STRAIGHT-UP-AND-DOWN path even if there's that head constantly in the way, mmmh. Curious how only free weights allow for sagittal and frontal adjustments, mmh. The more you deviate from free weights, the less you can adjust (on sagittal on all machines, on sagittal and frontal on proper shoulder press machines; sadly it seems you really can't seem to find a shoulder press machine in your repertoire).
Comparing machines to the hand stand push up against the wall and pretending they are sharing the same mechanics is the last straw.
You're the only one wasting everyone's time just because yours doesn't hold any value.
>>>/b/
>>>/out/

I dont even know what you guys are sperging about.

>muh OHP ROM

>>42137448
Bread, veganism, eggs, meat and steroids are a lesser evil if compared to shoulder impingement

>>42128493

>>42128481
a bit unbalanced desu, it's hard to get a stable position for my size 12s

>>42137345
I wonder what stuff I could add to my plain ol rack with a little bit ingenuity.

>>42137440
>What you posted are the definition of "not shoulder press machines"
On the contrary what you describe as a shoulder press is actually not a shoulder press at all. If the weight maintains a path in front of your head in such a way that your arms are pressing the weight at an incline, it is no longer a shoulder press as the pectoral muscles will engaged more the more inclined the bench is to move the weight. On a shoulder press machine not only can it be designed so that the pectoral muscles are engaged minimally but the path can be slightly arched behind your head, so as to engage the lateral deltoids, making it a more complete shoulder workout than an incline press of any sort and thus far more fitting of the term "shoulder press" than any one of your free weight presses.
>Curious how only free weights OHPs travel on the natural STRAIGHT-UP-AND-DOWN path even if there's that head constantly in the way, mmmh
That's only true on barbell OHP and the bar path still maintains a straight path in regards to the beginning and end position.

>>42140041
Nigger what did you smoke.
>not a shoulder press at all.
>If the weight maintains a path in front of your head in such a way that your arms are pressing the weight at an incline, it is no longer a shoulder press as the pectoral muscles will engaged more the more inclined the bench is to move the weight.
Where the fuck do you read that an inclined bench OHP has ever been suggested. The only incline bench here appears on the improvisated smith machine shoulder press, which has been largely challenged.
>On a shoulder press machine not only can it be designed so that the pectoral muscles are engaged minimally but the path can be slightly arched behind your head, so as to engage the lateral deltoids, making it a more complete shoulder workout than an incline press of any sort
Nigga, lateral deltoids and the clavicular head of the pectoralis major are the designted target muscle with both a shoulder press machine and with free weight machine; you're less likely be able to adapt your shoulders movement on an actual shoulder press machine
Again, no one ever talked about INCLINE PRESS, that's an overly retarded concept to begin with OHP
>a lever shoulder press is more a shoulder press than a free weight shoulder press executed with proper form
trying too hard/10
>suddenly the natural vertical path in free weights OP is unnatural
Put down that bloke

>>42140178
>free weight machine
*free weight
fuck

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>>42131225
Lost

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>>42140178
> The only incline bench here appears on the improvisated smith machine shoulder press, which has been largely challenged
there is no incline being used on the smith machine here >>42137116
they are using an fi bench in the unsupported flat position. Try again.
> Nigga, lateral deltoids and the clavicular head of the pectoralis major are the designted target muscle with both a shoulder press machine and with free weight machine
No, no they are not and you are doing it wrong. The only time the pecs come into play to any significant degree is if the bar is not pressed overhead. If you are pressing the bar in front of your head instead of around it you are doing a standing bench press. Furthermore emg activity of the lateral deltoid in an ohp is virtually non existent. If you're doing ohp for that you will never build capped delts and everyone knows this but you. Machine shoulder press can build capped delts because the bar path can travel back behind your head so it's like getting ohp + btn press all in one.
> Again, no one ever talked about INCLINE PRESS, that's an overly retarded concept to begin with OHP
a back supported db shoulder press is one of the most common presses you'll see done in a gym. which btfo your whole freely moving scapula argument.
>i'm not that guy
stop arguing for him then retard

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>>42141181
>a back supported db shoulder press is one of the most common presses you'll see done in a gym.
>>42137262
>you'll constantly notice that the trainee doesn't keep his back firmly pressed against the backseat and he dictates path of the dbs and ROM of cuffs

>>42141181
>No, no they are not and you are doing it wrong
Nigger, you're the only one doing it wrong. I doubt you even know what the CLAVICULAR HEAD of the pectoralis major even is.
That example in your fancy jpg is not how OHP is usually performed. It's actually a MISTAKE in OHP to arch your back like that. Hit the gym sometimes, when you're not busy cherry-picking images of an INCORRECT free weight movement actually mimicking INSUFFICIENT SUBACROMIAL ROM or a poor powerlifting attempt.
>Machine shoulder press can build capped delts because the bar path can travel back behind your head so it's like getting ohp + btn press all in one.
Bullshit. You're not training your rotator cuff and your deltoids in a three dimensional plane. It's like comparing hypertrophy and strength gained via smith squat with hypertrophy and strength obtained with free weight squat. Plain retarded.

>I'm not that underage buttflustrated guy who kept sperging unilaterally about shoulder presses, goalshifting from time to time
Then stop furthering his retardation in supporting lever shoulder press subacromial safety (and now, efficiency)

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>>42141181
>Machine shoulder press can build capped delts because the bar path can travel back behind your head so it's like getting ohp + btn press all in one.
>Machine shoulder press can build capped delts
>it's like getting ohp + btn press all in one.