Marvel not bringing in new customers

>>88835971
I am so sick of crossovers, events, and team ups.

>>88835971
>Appeal to a new demographic in a way that alinates the old loyal one

>>88836019
I will never understand this. Expand your audience, of course, but don't push away the one you already have.

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>Gimmick that will surely last for 3 issues
VS.
>Well written story with character people likes, be A, B, or C list
Is not an issue of demographicsm crossovers or the like, the thing is that at marvel nobody is comitted to their work

>>88836019
Which isn't even bringing in new customers reportedly.

>>88835971
Promotion will never help sell an useless product, marvel needs to hire better writers.

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Time to meme him into being the new EiC.

>>88836082
Yeah because why wait on one story that could go somewhere when you can have 5 that go nowhere?

>>88836105
>Implying current Marvel wiill stand him

I mean, even if he got into Marvel I see him either quitting or getting fired during the first 5 months. Current Marvel is beyond Shooter salvation

It's actually funny that marvel changed so many of there a listers into legacies or replacements to appeal to new people because when I talk to people who like the movies and might be interested in the comics most often there biggest complaint is that they find all the repacements and legacy characters confusing.

>>88835971
I thought retailers were already sick of marvel when marvel started sending them hundreds of "free" books and made the Retailers pay for them.

>>88836019
>the old loyal one
Like how DC manged to win them over with Rebirth pendering to them?

>>88836089
Editors are important too. The current ones (Brevoort) are perfectly fine with writers pushing their political agenda and alienating people because they live in a bubble where everyone who doesn't agree with them is Hitler.
>hire better writers
Underscoring this, Marvel's newest choices are people with no experience who aren't interested in the field. They just check the box of being the non-straight white male identity of the character they're writing/drawing. (Cain, Leth, Coates, flamboyant gay Iceman writer whose name escapes me, Henderson, Walker etc.) ,And if you are a straight white male, you must be #woke (Bendis, Waid, Spencer, Hopeless etc.).

>>88836190
Right, there's this idea that the New Audience wants some one-to-one demographic match that requires making new legacies/characters, whereas a lot of people are drawn to the stuff that they know is classic/what they've seen on the big screen.

>>88835971
>I thought movie synergy and diverse diversity with diverse characters was supposed to do tha

those sell trades.

no one outside of the comics industry gives a shit about single issues.

>>88836089
This, this, a billion times this.

>>88836223

but Leth and Sina Grace (Ice Man writer, also generally good writer) have been putting out comics for years before Marvel hired them.

just because you didn't read/care for them doesn't mean they don't exist.

and seriously, I understand where you're coming from, but where do you expect new writers to come from? because in your mind if they're from in the industry but aren't straight white men, its a diversity hire, and if they're writers in other forms, they clearly have no experience with comics and shouldn't be writing them?

>>88835971
Let's not forget that Marvel no longer produces any books appropriate for kids to read anymore save the screenshots of the shitty animated shows. They used to have plenty of mainstream universe comics that were rated A.

>>88836299
Hiring people who aren't just older fanboys and aren't house writers who get a mandated topic shoved at them no matter what it is, that's actually a good idea. We need people writing comics who read more than just other comics.

>>88836201
Yeah, Marvel is freaking pitiful and I have lost hope in them, but I at least thought DC will bring some big sales with how old fans bragging about how comics are better off pandering to them.

>>88836299
Isn't Leth a webcomic artist?

>>88836371

yes.
she also wrote a bunch of licensed books for Boom (adventure time, bravest warriors, fraggle rock, edward scissorhands), some of which are considered good (by writers/critics who happen to be her friends).

>>88836299
>and if they're writers in other forms, they clearly have no experience with comics and shouldn't be writing them?
Nah. There are plenty of writers and artists who are good in their own right who happen to not be straight white males and don't push an agenda tied to their identity (Louise Simonson, Jim McCann, John Semper).And when it comes to new talent, it should be people who are really interested in comics and know/love the characters. That's how it was in the past. Half of the new hires have never read a comic in their life.

>>88836446
Coates is a big ol' comics nerd, and so is the new Black Bolt writer Saladin Ahmed.

Some of the people newer to comics clearly take to the mythos and do the reading and bring fresh eyes to it, and then some of them are Daniel P. Wilson, unfortunately.

>>88836446
>it should be people who are really interested in comics and know/love the characters.

but then you get shit like >>88836342 complaining about them just hiring fanboys.

there is literally no winning here.

>>88835971
They need MORE diversity. Replace Peter Parker with Moon Girl!!!! (Did you I is Moon Girl is literally the smartest person on Earth???!!!!!).

>>88836483
>then some of them are Daniel P. Wilson, unfortunately.

to be fair to Wilson, that book was doomed before he was attached to it.

>>88836493
I'd rather hire a fanboy than someone who doesn't know the characters. Or at least someone who knows what the people want.

>>88835971
Anon, Marvel does make new readers.
The problem is, they dont buy comics, just read them online for free.

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>>88835971

>>88836359
I wouldn't say I've lost all hope in them, DC were in the same boat 5 years ago. Then again DC has had times when it has been truly great, I can't really think of a time like this for Marvel.

>>88836667
and the ones who actually buy the floppies, are the ones Marvel keeps alienating. Pottery

>>88836697
Before they decided that they needed to win the old fans back via Rebirth.
>>88836684
LMFAO

>>88836223
They also need to stop wasting good artists an writers on shit books.

Like putting the artist who did the Axis Hobgiblin book on Spider-Woman? Why?

Meanwhile, Champions, THEIR FLAGSHIP BOOK, has Ramos on it.

And stop putting Lemire on team books goddamn it.

>>88835971
>isn't exactly struggeling in terms of sales
They are literally giving their shit away for free to make their numbers look better.

>>88835971
I'll just post how they lost me with the example of ms marvel
>make new char
ok
>legacy
eeh
>write mildly interesting stuff with it, put some struggles in it
GOOD!
>she's a fanboy, heart of gold, dreams of making it big
I can get behi-
>EVENT
>EVERYTHING CHANGES
>NOW SHE MADE IT BIG
ok
>stories are shit now to me because they lost the glimmer of appeal of the underdog
thanks marv, i needed to drop another book, i can afford other comics anymore i guess.

>>88836082
Very good point, even if your taste in cartoons is shit.

Ironically the only writers who are exceptions to this and manage to write the same stuff for a few years, also happen to be ones who just keep writing shitty gimmick storylines all year long regardless (Bendis and Slott)

I don't think there's anyone in editorial or production who really knows what they're doing. Brevoort was a decent editor 20 years ago, but there's a reason the guy never got EiC. He's clearly too much of a pussy to run the ship the way it needs running and Axel seems to be completely out of touch with reality.

In the letters page of a recent
Moon Knight the senior editor on the book misnamed the writer of a run that's only ten years old, parroting a mistake in a fan letter. It was a sure sign of systemic incompetence.

Maybe it has something to do with Marvel's "Breadwinners" like Mark Waid talking about how Superman needed to be raised in a city to learn moral values instead of Racist Kansas.

>>88837094
I guess he was havin a senior moment,

>>88836223
Woah what's the gay Iceman comic?

I'm gonna be disappointed if I actually read it aren't I?

>>88835971
Will this effect Star Wars any?

>>88837194
It's not out yet

written by Sina Grace, art by Alessandro Vitti

>>88837209
No Star Wars, a least the main title, is still month to month one of the best selling comics coming out.

>>88837194
It's about Iceman's forbidden romance with an Inhuman named Romeo.

What do you think?

>Step 1: Announce relaunch.
>Step 2: Six month of relaunch titles.
>Step 3: Six months of event buildup.
>Step 4: Six months of event.
>Step 5: Go back to Step 1.
HOW COULD THIS FAIL?! - t. Alonzo and Brevoort.

>>88837132
You know you don't have to make stuff up to make them sound more retarded than they already were

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>>88837301
except that it's real?

>>88837354
Peyer was the one shitting on Kansans, Waid was just ruminating on the idea of what Clark would be as a city slicker.

>>88837286
>It's about Iceman's forbidden romance with an Inhuman named Romeo.

I really can't believe they actually named him Romeo. I mean I know Marvel Comics isn't usually known for their subtlety, but that's just being way too blatant.

>>88837391
Waid is in agreement to it. Fly with the crows, get shot with the crows.

>>88836201
>Giving your paying customers what they want is pandering.
In any other industry, this is called making your customers happy. It's what every business does in order to increase sales and raise customer satisfaction. Here, it's apparently pandering.

>>88836983
It's amazing how badly Kamala was ruined. They had a great idea and then they fucked her over with the constant relaunches, Events (Secret Wars, CW2, IvX), and teams (First Avengers, then Champions, and now she's going to be in a Inhuman Spec Ops Team).

Her main book isn't even in the top 100 anymore.

>>88837442
It was nice of Nick Spencer to just come out and tell his readers how much he hates them

>>88837354
It would suck harder because at least "muh kansas values" has at least some root in reality.

>>88835971
I blame giving a series to fucking Solo.

>>88837286
>Terragen jizz causes M-Pox and kills Iceman
>Beast says it was all Iceman's fault and Romeo is completely innocent and nobody should have tried making him wear an Incondom and Iceman shouldn't have been so intolerant.

>>88836105
Carol's getting a movie. He'd sooner kill himself.

>>88836983
Kamala became a lamer, safer Katara who rants about not wanting to be the "mom" or a spoilsport in the worst moments as possible while at the same time, being these archetypes.

It's like Waid hates these archetypes yet it's ok if he points out how these character is now a mouthpiece before doing it.

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>>88836667
Guilty.
I know no less than 5 sites off the top of my head, why the fuck wouldn't you?

>>88836019
>the new demographic doesn't even buy the comics, they just complain about every single "problematic" nitpick from them that lands in their tumblr feed
Who thought this was a good idea? Everyone knows you give these people an inch and the next thing you know 900 miles isn't even good enough.

>>88837289
>Step 2: Six month of relaunch titles.
>Step 3: Six months of event buildup.
These are the same step by now.

>>88836201
if you use the word pandering as a pejorative, you are a retard without anything worth saying.

>>88836105
Nah, bring back DeFalco

>>88835971
I'm fucking loving every laugh.

DC's Hanna Barbera reboots are awesome; my dad started reading my Future Quest comics to the point where he started buying them along with Flintstones. Marvel decides to try and sell to a bunch of netizens who scoff as physical media then wonder where they went wrong.

>>88837183
The dude's probably younger than I am, which may be the problem. Probably wasn't even reading comics 10 years ago.

>>88835971

Endless reboots are comic book cancer. I'd bet every person on this board got started in the middle of an story arc. All they do is let new writers put zero effort into continuity instead of slim to middling effort into coninuity.

>>88838739
IMO so much of it comes down to time crunch and lack of editing. Write something as an outline, figure out how to cut the waste and what's good, where to call back to older stuff, how to make every bit of the page do something for plot or character...that takes skill and more than one pass.

>>88835971
>diverse diversity with diverse characters

OP is scared of non-vanilla humans, thinks it's somehow Marvel's fault.

Meanwhile Marvel books continue to sell just fine outside of the sweat-encrusted echo chamber that is the comic book store niche.

>>88836019
Fucking this! Its perfectly reasonable to expand your market,but antagonize with your core audience?!

>>88838781
>Meanwhile Marvel books continue to sell just fine
lololol

>>88838781
tip top lel

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>>88838829
>>88838863
It's bad bait, just ignore it

>>88837354
Jesus Waid, why are you so cancerous?

What happened to him? Was his wife's son murdered by Trump supporters or something? I knew it was bad with his constant KKK shit like with Legion and Daredevil but even then it would just be one arc.

t. non-white non-american

>>88836089

So much this. I want huge 5-10 year runs by worthy writers. Brubaker, Gage, Ellis. I even liked Bendis up until about 2010.

>>88836299
>Leth
>putting out comics for years before Marvel
Tumblr webcomics aren't comic books.

>>88836493
>there is literally no winning here.
It's not about winning. It's about producing good stories.

>>88836697

Instead of the New 52, DC would have been better off releasing an alternate universe. Something in the vein of Marvel Ultimates meets Stracynski's Supreme Power.

I would have read the shit out of that.

>>88836684
Normally I'd be annoyed with his bitching but it's got to suck as a fucking retailer to get product that won't ever fucking move. The model that a Comic book store has to deal with is awful and getting even more shit you have to pay shipping for, that everyone knows won't move is shit.

>>88837245
>is still month to month one of the best selling comics coming out.
Which still can't seem to make the top 10 anymore.

What are they even publishing these days? A Darth Vader series? Or is it a miniseries?

>>88835971
Fucking deplorable Drumpftard Nazis stopped buying our shit! Fuck white males. We NEVER needed them. Trendy Muslim POC Women and transgender tumblerinos will fill the gap.

>>88838739
I started with the new 52
But seeing what Marvel was doing made me very uninterested in them

>>88837545
>>Terragen jizz causes M-Pox and kills Iceman
>>Beast says it was all Iceman's fault and Romeo is completely innocent and nobody should have tried making him wear an Incondom and Iceman shouldn't have been so intolerant.

How sad is it, that I believe this description is entirely accurate.

If they really wanted a gay Iceman a decent writer could have just had virginal and impressionable teen Bobby be seduced by a charistmatic man.

>>88839273

Same here. I honestly can't bring myself to care about Marvels universe. Its so fucking boring

>>88839168
>DC would have been better off releasing an alternate universe. Something in the vein of Marvel Ultimates meets Stracynski's Supreme Power.
They did. It was called Earth One.

It's hard to bring in new readers when your characters are constantly changing and don't even match up to who they are in the movies.

>>88839088
Everything but those last two sentences is perfectly logical. People wanting to purchase nice, well constructed paperback/hardcover books is not their fault. A business that relies on monthly floppy books is straight up just a poor business model.

>>88839168
They did that with Earth 2 and Earth One, and the former is really worth a look. Some of Earth One is alright.

>>88839321

Earth One Superman was pretty forgettable, it was nowhere near as gripping as Supreme Power.

>>88836079
Worked for Star Wars.

>>88839534

They didn't push away their old audience though. They filled it with a whole bunch of nostalgia crap. New Star Wars is closer to Rebirth than what Marvel is doing

>>88839534
congrats on completely misunderstanding why the new Star Wars movies worked, even if I was completely underwhelmed by TFA being an almost total rehash

>>88839609
Star Wars fans are idiots. These last few shitshows have shown me that it's actually impossible to repel these people.

>>88835971

I'm inclined to believe that Marvel is using Twitter for market research into what people want.

>>88836332
>Marvel comics aren't for kids anymore.
Not Marvel's fault kids would rather play Minecraft then read comics.

>>88839645
Not all of us I fucking hate TFA and didn't even watching Rogue One

>>88839088

>My pull lisit is exclusively be full of women and minority focused comics,

Virtue signalling this hard...

>>88839231
>early 1980s
>Marvel starts to publish SW comics
>they keep afloat thanks to them
>30 years later, the same happens

>>88839683
Actually, it is Marvel Drone

Thing is, DC does the whole diversity thing better than Mavel anyway, they're just not constantly shouting about it.

Stuff like Gotham Academy is one kid in a wheelchair away from Extreme Ghostbusters territory, and is miles better (or was at least, endless filler is killing its momentum) than anything Marvel is putting out.

I'm down to a single book from them on my pulllist and that's only because I'm full gay for X-23 and will buy anything they put her in.

>>88835971
>comicbookmovie
>talks about comics
wut

>>88839738
>and didn't even watching Rogue One

You're missing out.

>>88839956
But she's not even X-23 anymore. In personality or name. Gwenpool and spiderman and deadpool are the only things I can read from them anymore. I just stopped buying comics though when it just became hard to invest in anyone anymore. The roller coaster goes too far up and down I still bought Midnighter because it was the only decent gay character I've seen in fucking forever. I'm not saying straight guys shouldn't write gay characters. Just that they almost always reduce it to one facet and leave it at that.

>>88840074
Just watch the first 5 minutes of RLM's review of it. That pretty much tells you what you need to know and I watched the shitty ass movie.

>>88839956
>I'm down to a single book from them on my pulllist and that's only because I'm full gay for X-23 and will buy anything they put her in.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Homeless%20Mutant%20Quest

You will like these 146 threads.

>>88840074

On a lead who can't fucking act and a few cool minutes of Vader you can watch on the internet. He isn't missing anything

>>88839956
>one kid in a wheelchair away from Extreme Ghostbusters
In all fairness, that guy in the wheelchair (Garret?) was actually pretty damn well fleshed out

>>88840126
>Gwenpool
You mean spider-gwen.

>>88836332
This is just wrong, Squirrel Girl and Moon Girl are both aimed at the all ages demographic.

>>88840216
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar, shame he died.

>>88838530
Y'know, I honestly think DeFalco would do a hell of a lot better if he got another shot at it.

>>88838530
>>88840830
You crazy? Marvel began to sink with him.

>>88838817
Keep in mind the sort of person who would declare themselves "antagonized" over this.

>>88840850
DeFalco's aware of the shit job he did. He's admitted as much. If he became EiC again I doubt he'd repeat his mistakes.

That said, you can hardly dump Marvel's 90's collapse all on him.

>>88840928
it was mostly Bob harras fault

>>88836225
The practice of selfinserting as a younger version of a hero for the audience goes back as far as Batman Beyond.

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>>88840928
>I doubt he'd repeat his mistakes
That's too much to doubt, anon.

>>88838995

Has ellis ever done a 5-10 year run on ANYTHING? especially lately... guy can't hold a schedule to save his life

>>88840850
Marvel sank not because of DeFalco but because of Ronald O Perelman and others, who were practically DeFalco's bosses at the time.

>>88841065
Transmetropolitan and Planetary were the last long form things he did. Then again if Planetary were on a monthly schedule it'd probably be just less than three years.

>>88841085
Shooter also had to deal with bad bosses and the publisher survived.

>>88841113

Oh, fuck i somehow forgot about Transmet. Still though he's not exactly known for writing long series

>>88841139
Shooter took no shit, though. He gave a shit about the quality of the product, and it showed. Marvel desperately needs another Shooter to keep their Diva writers (Bendis, Waid,Slott) under heel

>>88841139
But Shooter showed who used the pants on the house and everyone would listen to him

>>88841255

Yeah what theyre missing is a real hardass in editorial, although i get the feeling the amount of time dedicated to editorial oversight has gone down significantly over the years... the amount of typos you see in books alone is too much let alone all the other things that could be adressed.

>>88841255
>>88841295
Exactly, they need a Shooter not a DeFalco.

>>88840724

Yeah, I live in hope of another Marvel / DC quest, but with /qst/ being as it is, I'm not too hopeful, /tg/ quest threads had better community, no idea why.

>>88836019
Hey, it worked for Nintendo, at least for a few years! It must work for everyone else in the long term!

>>88840850

Defalco was a good boy, he dindu nuthin'

>>88840981

Terry wasn't a marty-stu though which is the majority of the problem with legacies.

So how would you save Marvel, /co/?

I mean besides removing all the brown people and hiring writers with right-leaning opinions?

>>88841514
Hire Jack Chick.

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>>88840148
>>88840311
Go away Mike. You spent the run up to New Years making a video about how angry you are the your fanbase isn't as brainless as you thought.

>>88841552
He's dead.
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/87198642
http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/87240206

>>88841514
Give up on comics entirely outside of promotional material for the next new movie.

>>88840148
AT-ST AT-ST AT-ST AT-ST AT-ST AT-ST AT-ST AT-ST

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>>88841647
>There are actually people who like Rogue One
>They're the ones with brains

>>88841514
Fire all the sjws. Tell guards to shoot them if they are close to the building.
Moore, Gaiman, Morrison. This is your home. Feel free to come and write wonderful stories with our characters. Do whatever you want with them.
Real continuity. Characters will grow old and die. And they won't appear in more than 2 series.
You bash on other publishers, I fire your ass for giving Marvel a bad PR. Besides, what kind of idiot insults future or former employers?
No more decompressed narrative.
No more Ultimate universe.
90s characters: kill them off. Fuck Cable, Deadpool and all that shit.
No manga influence. Let's keep comics pure and clean from inferior beings.
Creative Commons licenses for all Marvel products.
Epic Illustrated v2. European and Latin American stories.
Spanish translations of books. It's the second language of the US!
Republish pre-1990 material and let 90s books rot in the cellar.
Punisher out of 616 universe.
Millar: get out of here.
Ellis: finish your series or others better than you will do it.
Give Moon Knight a decent writer, for Jack's sake.
Don't charge more than 2 $ per issue.
More translations of foreign material (yes, including manga)
A Vertigo-like collection.
Fuck crossovers and events.
Less splash pages. We are telling a story, you know.
No Conservative messages in comics.
Aunt may dies forever.
Iron man: he fell into a puddle and got rust. Killed off or a B-list again.
Writers and artists keep the copyright every time they create a new character.
Characters can smoke or take drugs if necessary or cool.

>>88836105
Big Shooter is our only hope

>>88841514
>hiring writers with right-leaning opinions?

They don't have to be right-leaning, (though I'd love a John Millus style series) they just have to keep their politics as subtext rather than using characters as mouthpieces.

Think Wizards First Rule as opposed to Naked Empire.

>>88841884
Terry Goodkind is a conservative?

>>88841820
>Implying Moore would ever work for the Big Two again.

>Wanting modern Moore.

>>88841956

The point was he worships Ayn Rand, and that was fine as subtext in Wizard's First Rule, it was intolerable by the time he wrote Naked Empire and basically killed the Sword of Truth series.

Kinda like what's happening with many writers at marvel.

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>>88842055
>he worships Ayn Rand
Deleting my Goodkind folder now. Thanks for the info, anon.

>>88842044
Modern Moore is still much better than all the hacks at Marvel.

>>88840669

That's even worse than nothing!

>>88840148
You're a retard

There's way less nostalgia pandering in Rogue One, set right before the OT, than TFA which is 30 years after

Don't listen to fucking ecelebs, especially those being controversial for clicks

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>>88840539
>liking Spider-Gwen

>>88840669
What kind of kid would want to read that?

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>>88840539

>>88841514
Put quality writers and artists on A-list books.

Put more Pandering to nerds and nostalghiafags in comics.

You can have minority heroes/comics, but keep them in small limited doses.

Stop shilling the Inhumans so hard. Their movie/tvshow isn't even out yet.

Take Slott off of ASM or bring back Wacker as his editor.

Plan out events better before putting them out. And don't (for the love of god) put Bendis in charge of the event.

>>88836082
Anon gets it

>>88841514
The problems run through the whole company, from top to bottom

>Perlmutter's money saving strategies resulting in a purge of editors.
>Alonso is utterly worthless as an EIC.
>They have too few editors who are too weak or afraid or lazy to put their foot down.
>Their writing talent seems really lacklustre in general.

You'd need a company-wide shakeup

>>88842512

Other than the first point being a general "i want better things, do it" statement and the nerd pandering i agree.

I'm not even a spider-man fan and slott seriously needs to go, spidey's books should be accesible to people and all he does is clog shit up with his whole spiderverse 8 spiderpeople running around horseshit.

>>88836089
>Promotion will never help sell an useless product

Cigarettes.

>>88842672
>carbolic smoke ball

>>88839989
same thing with SuperHeroHype where they have Star Wars articles
>superhero

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>>88836549
>I'd rather hire a fanboy than someone who doesn't know the characters. Or at least someone who knows what the people want.

Good GOD no, fanboys running the asylum are the reason comics are borderline unreadable now. It just reduces comics to shitty fanfics every single time.

>>88842929
>that Johns hater again

>>88836019
>Appeal to a demographic that doesn't buy comic books
yeah I'm sure that will work great

>>88840148
>redditlettermedia

>>88836847
>I like Ramos's art :(

>>88841514
First, stop the event marathon.
Second, stop continously relaunches, make them miniseries. Several series work well as minis instead of full series and gives the team enough breath for the series.
Third get good editors to make the stories good and somehow understandable.
Get good artists thatwant that book.
Stop unnecessary legacy hero replacement.
If you want more diversity, make it to develope plots, not because diversity and try to shove it in the face.

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>>88841479
This. You can tell he's not a marty-stu by the fact that people on this site try to say that he sucks because he got beat up by bad guys a lot or about how inexperienced he was compared to other Batfamily members.

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>that feel when you used to like the idea of legacy characters and believed super heroes staying forever on a role was dull.

>that feel when Marvel single-handily took your wish and Monkey's Paw'd to hell and back.

Passing on the Torch shouldn't be a bad thing. How did things became so bad...?

>>88840981
the thing with Batman Beyond is that, on paper, it's a terrible idea. Edgy teenage Batman, his gimmick being he's from the future and has a suit that does all the work for him. it worked because Dini, Timm and Burnett are fucking good at their job and knew how to make the concept interesting.

>>88840669
I was talking about books with real heroes. Not books about ugly kids with special needs.

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>>88843379

Batman Beyond deserves acclaim purely for all of the bad ends the villains meet. If it wasn't for the lack of sex you'd think Timm had been given free reign to do whatever.

>>88841514
A) Restore identities of characters whose identities have swapped for legacy reasons (Carol as Ms. Marvel, Sam as Falcon etc.)
B) Restore race or sexuality of a character that was flipped for PC's sake
C) Stop with the useless events
D) Crack down on useless deaths. We all know the character is going to eventually come back.
E) Make some mainstream books that work for kids and adults. Think old comics and the animated adaptions we like.
F) Avoid partisan politics unless it's a clear-cut issue virtually all of the US agrees on. Don't alienate half the market.
G) Keep classic costumes and personalities. Don't let the movies and TV shows completely change a character that's been around for 40 years.
H) Appoint an editor to keep track of continuity, and resolve contradictions in work.
I) Bring back "What Ifs" and AUs. If someone want to do something outrageous that will mess everything up, let them do it in an isolated continuity.

>>88843191
>First, stop the event marathon.

Agree with everything except this, there should be ONE event per year, Disassembled. House of M, Secret Invasion, Civil War were fine and led to interesting things.

New Avengers team, culling infinity+1 mutants, the Initiative, the Illuminati, Ellis Thunderbolts, Dark Avengers and Avengers Academy.

It gives the marvel universe a metaplot. The problem is a surfit of shitty events that don't affect anything.

>>88843191
Screening this, my friend

>>88843942
No.
When every event is billed as a game changer, none of them are. It gets old. It loses shock value. And people begin predicting what's going to happen with relative ease.

>>88844023
And it fucks with ongoings

Last Marvel book I read was Remender's Secret Avengers. It randomly jumped into a cosmic story with no context within the ongoing

>>88841820

>Moore ever working at the big 2 again
>Morrison ever working for Marvel again

The Brits can't help you now

I go to this board to talk about cartoons. Shit that's supposed to be inclusive and appeal to me about these superhero comics doesn't change what I don't like about them- that they're superhero comics.

As a child (or, preteen) I read sonic the hedgehog and got a monthly subscription to it. I really enjoyed it, so I tried reading some other comics. But superheros were either too gritty or too boring for my tastes, nothing was lighthearted enough. But, I dunno, maybe I should try reading squirrel girl. :^)

>>88835971
It kind of makes sense
I mean I'm sure people really liked avengers and what not but a lot of people feel intimidated by the large amount of material that they have to the point where they just dont want to deal with reading it all

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>>88841820

>No Conservative messages in comics.

Oh yeah the conservatives are the problem at Marvel these days.

>>88844075
I will never forget the pain of what happened to Thor because of Siege. That run was interesting and entertaining and then everything stopped dead because there had to be an event.

>>88843942

No there should be an event every 4 years or so so they actually mean something. I'm enjoying DC's slow build up to the Manhattan event than the constant state of """"hype""" Marvel is going for

>>88844131
powerpack is always cute and lighthearted
though I don't think they have a lot of modern stuff
and I think the new comics have an atrocious artstyle

>>88843925
>Restore race or sexuality of a character that was flipped for PC's sake
that's literally only Bobby.

>>88844187
Power Pack isn't kid-friendly anymore since they made Julie a dyke.

>>88836684
Is mosaic any good? We don't even get it for free via storytime from what i can tell.

>>88844248
Nick Fury, D-Man, Flatman, and Psylocke too.

>>88844272
We don't know. No one has ever read it.

>>88843925
I forgot one...

J) Bring back secret identities. Some may argue that it's an outdated concept, but so what. It's fun and provides loads of interesting stories that couldn't be done otherwise.

>>88844132
QFT. This is the main problem with the Big 2. There's years worth of continuity to wade through. Particularly in Marvel's case cuz DC at least had COIE to do a revamp of their universe.

This is why Ultimate Marvel was ideal. It drew in new fans thanks to a new universe that wasn't burdened by decades of continuity.

This is partly the reason why Marvel and DC are slowly but surely losing more and more consumers. A kid can't purchase monthlies anymore like the old days. I was able to buy comics in the mid-90's because they were still $1.25 but the prices started to jack up. Not to mention comics are not kid-friendly anymore and rely on 20somethings and older.

Comics are now just movie properties because that's where the big bucks are. Add retarded SJWism in comics and I say this as a liberal, no shit it's backfiring. The vast majority of comic readers have and continues to be straight white cisgender males. Obviously they aren't gonna be too happy when you take away the characters they grew up reading and and relating to. Identity politics don't bring in bank because most of these pundits don't consume comic media. They just want to make noise for their agendas.

>>88844294
No way will they bring back white Fury because the movies are still banking megabucks.

As for Psylocke, her whole popularity hinges on being sexy exotic Japanese ninja. Take that away and she's just a boring English girl.

>>88841820
I remember this pasta

>>88844023

Each event shouldn't be a gamechanger, secret wars, seige, fear itself sucked for these reasons, but there should be (smaller more character driven) events which characters across mu react to, there's no point in having these characters exist in the same shared universe unless they have a common point of reference.

And like many anons have pointed out stronger editorial control would stop the events from fucking up ongoings. (which shouldn't be relaunched after every single event.) In marvel's heyday big events were more or less self contained and ongoings simply stated at the start of the issue if it was set before or after said event.

>>88843942
when everything's a big event, nothing's a big event.

Once a year is too much. Crossovers are fine

>>88844411
>This is why Ultimate Marvel was ideal. It drew in new fans thanks to a new universe that wasn't burdened by decades of continuity.

This is also why the MCU took off like it did. Hell even if you are interested in watching the MCU films but don't want to wade through the movies you aren't interested in you can spend 5 minutes on youtube videos and be up to speed.

>>88838990
>What happened to him?
Marvel.

>>88844248

It's not, but that's the most egregious example.

If Bendis wanted teen bobby gay so bad, just have him slowly get involved with a another guy, and fall for him. That would actually be interesting, particularly if older bobby was straight.

>>88844075
>And it fucks with ongoings
Yeah, that's how they killed New Warriors, wasn't it, they intersected it with the spider-verse-vampire thing event, killed the kids and plucked out Kaine.

>>88844763
Exactly.

Years ago on a thread about getting into comics, I argued that Marvel was much simpler compared to DC because at least they kept the same timeline. But with all these changes and retcons, it's as confusing as pre-Crisis and post-Crisis DC. All someone has to do is Wiki a bit and will understand the Marvel Universe.

What really helped was Ross' Marvels. That shit captured the Silver Age very well and was a good primer for 616 Marvel.

Now that Ultimates got axed, the only thing left now is the MCU because you can easily get into that compared to 50+ years of Marvel comics.

>>88839269
>Strawmanning this hard.

>>88844670
>And like many anons have pointed out stronger editorial control would stop the events from fucking up ongoings. (which shouldn't be relaunched after every single event.) In marvel's heyday big events were more or less self contained and ongoings simply stated at the start of the issue if it was set before or after said event.
Yeah but by the 90's, editors gave their writers free rein and no sense of organizing.

Remember Fatal Attractions and how its fallout was never addressed in non-X books? You're telling me a massive EMP that knocked out the world's power isn't something street-level heroes like Spider-Man and Daredevil aren't dealing with when NYC is having looters run amok and whatnot?

Don't forget how Marvel allows writers to piss on years of characterization and plot progression in favor of retcons and muh special storytelling. Cherrypicking continuity gives a huge finger to long-time readers. In fact, the whole Marvel schtick nowadays is to alienate anyone whose read more than 5-10 years worth of stories.

>>88842672
They make you thinner though.

>>88842044
Hey man Providence is great

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>>88838990
>What happened to him?
He became woke

>>88837606
>why the fuck wouldn't you?
Because marvel isn't even worth pirating.

>>88837354
You know this is the sort of shit that makes decent whites in flyover states pissed at liberals. I'm non-white myself and spent a lot of time traveling the country for business. Some of the most decent people I've met were white Christians in Kansas, Nebraska, and Colorado. They're not politically correct or up with liberal views, but it doesn't mean they're evil.

>>88841514
>"I can't even ask a question without being a condescending cunt"
Kill yourself.

>>88845166

A lot of the practical problems with events started with the x-books (events spread over six or more different titles to bolster sales).

A good event should be largely self contained in six to seven issues, be focused on one character or team that might bleed over to a wider cast, should have long term implications for a single or a few characters, but not for other characters save that they know about it, or have a flawed understanding of it. And it should generate a few plot threads aterwards (maybe enough to start a short lived title like the Initiative or Avengers Academy.)

>>88845490
I know. I remember in the late 80's you had all those crossover events like Mutant Massacre, Evolutionary War, Atlantic Attacks, Inferno, and Acts of Vengeance. While those were indeed entertaining compared to the shit churned out nowadays, it was the beginning of things to come.

>>88845359
There are a lot of people who never leave cities for their entire lives now, who live entirely sheltered from the fact that people raised in different environments have different priorities and who, as a result, constantly look down on anybody who's not from a big city.
It is a horrible, shitty attitude and I can't see it getting any less any time soon.

>>88837132

If Superman was raised in a city he'd likely be mistrustful of strangers, feel little sense of community outside his own social group yet feel confidant in enforcing his values on rural voters who don't know any better and who are on the "wrong side of history."

>>88845589
Exactly big city assholes who sneer over flyover states and never traveled more than 100 miles outside of their home are just as bad as close-minded hayseeds from Bumblefuck.

I'm liberal myself, but some of the most racist and condescending attitudes I've ever encountered were in San Francisco and the Bay area in general. And these were from supposed liberal whites, the people that tote themselves as being progressive...so long as you fit within their SJW agendas. At least with white conservatives, I know who I'm dealing with, but white liberals are sneaky fucks like Malcolm X said.

>>88845595
Depends on what city.

It's always NYC, Chicago, SF, or LA but what about Seattle, Denver, Phoenix, Atlanta, Miami, Boston, Philadelphia?

>>88845595
Actually he would be raised by Lex Luthor and end up murdered by Batman for killing the Waynes with his baby space ship.

>>88836082
Funny thing is... Marvel HAD several examples of the latter but opted to let the former control their destinies in crossovers

>>88845727
And this is why we're seeing the steady decline of Marvel.

I really wonder what the state of comics will be like by mid-century? I'll be 57 by then and I highly doubt I'll give a shit about capes by then.

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>>88845595
Yeah, it's complete unbelievable to have a hero raised in the city that would have morals.

>>88845794
The disconnect is amazing with these writers when they simultaneously have decent heroes that were raised in cities like Peter or Matt. In fact, Waid has nothing to talk about when 90% of Marvel heroes are based in NYC.

>>88839738
The real question is: did you like the second trilogy?

>>88845794
Not a great example when it's only because his uncle got killed by his self-centeredness that he decided to buck up.

>>88839738
I'm not a Star Wars but Rogue One was surprisingly entertaining. Maybe because it was a war movie within a sci-fantasy setting.

To be frank, the original trilogy is overrated. Only Empire Strikes Back was great, the rest are tepid.

>>88843385
It's because they don't bother to establish legacy characters before immediately giving them the mantle despite them not earning it 90% of the time. They literally exist to be nothing but the new *blank* despite being entirely new characters with little history with the characters they're replacing. There should be more legacy heroes like Dick, Wally, and Bucky rather than what Marvel is doing with Miles, Cho, and Riri.

>>88845879
Well if you are going like that then Superman would still be a decent person because in Elsewolrds where he was raised by actual Hitler he still ended up being a good person, so I don't think living in a inner city would make him worse than Hitler could.

>>88845879
He was a 15 year old nerd who was bullied and finally got superpowers, how noble do you expect him to be?

I actually shudder to think what I was in my teenage years. Our minds aren't developed while hormones are raging. If a ripple in the multiverse created an energy wave that gave superpowers to various teens across the globe, we'd have shit that would make the Chronicle movie look tame.

>>88845952
>how noble do you expect him to be?
He was still a damn sight better than I would have been. I'd be abducting peopel out their houses in the middle of the night, webbing them to the roofs spread-eagle and gagged until either some carrion birds peck them open or they get heatstroke from exposure.
Then again, I had a difficult childhood.

>>88844845
That and it took way too many issues to bring the team together. It took like 6 or 8 issues.

>>88845888
>Miles, Cho, and Riri.
Well, Cho is Pak's favorite plaything that he developed through the course of ten years, so I'm not really sure why you put him on your list. But the thing I really wanted to comment on is the fact that, if you take out Cho (for the reason I've mentioned), you're literally left only with Bendis' creations.

>>88845688
Yes, yes, yes, probably not, probably, yes in most of it, yes.

>>88846016
That's because Peter at least had Uncle Ben and Aunt May. There was an interesting story years ago about a classmate of Peter's who was also bullied. But unlike Peter, he had an abusive dad and wasn't able to develop a positive mindset.

But you see what I mean? Giving a teenager that sort of power and not abusing is a miracle. Even though we're comic/cartoon fans here, I'm willing to bet 90% of its members would misuse powers (not full-out supervillain) for personal gain and amusement.

>>88842569
>Perlmutter's money saving strategies resulting in a purge of editors.
>Implying Marvel needed 32 editors

>>88846162

They need more than they have now that's for damn sure.

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Are they talking brick and mortar retailers? I was under the assumption everyone buys this stuff online now. Any numbers on how sales differ from stores to online?

The only books I buy from Marvel is Ghost Rider and Renew Your Vows, which will both be canceled. They're going to kill Robbies fucking potential because of team up shit no one wants. Its part of the reason why Kamala went to hell

>>88840148
Making an opinion based on a few drunken assholes YouTube videos

>>88842672
>confusing bad for you with useless

>constant reboots, events, cross overs, team changes, etc.

It's hard to get into this shit when it changes every few months.

>>88846332
Getting into it is easy. Keeping up with it is a chore.

>>88846280
I'd like to see those figures myself and compare them to sales of TPBs.

>>88846332
Exactly. This is partly why I switched to manga. Say what you want about the Japanese, but at least, it's all in the hands of 1 writer who will end it at some point (I'm looking at YOU Berserk!).

Im at the point where I want Reed Richards to destroy the multiverse and start everything over.

My friend is a huge normie who liked the Iron Man movies. Recently he wanted to get into the comics. I told him the current Iron Man is a black woman from Chicago. He dropped all interest, and he's a black dude himself.

Marvel needs to realize people are interested in what's under the costume, and just because a character is 40 years old (in real years), doesn't mean they need to be replaced with a hip, new alternative.

>>88846134

That Stracynski story was great, I really wanted vibranium guy to be added to spidey's rogue gallery.

>>88838990
Waid was always pretty progressive. When he was getting into comics there was a lot of room for progressives to work in in a sadly archaic comic industry. He came onto the scene and in his very first comic established an interracial romance that was the core of his entire series.

But once the more natural, easy progressive stuff had made its way into comics the only shit left was this hyper-aware, ultra politically correct stuff poisoned by social media proliferation. His old stuff seems natural and obvious to us so we don't notice the super politically charged, progressive lilt to his writing. Now that we're living with the comics he's currently producing, and his general writing quality has gone down, the only thing to notice is his ultra political tripe.

>>88846506
Yep. It even showed something that happens in real life; Peter ganging-up on the guy. Even victims will pick on another victim so that the attention isn't on them anymore.

>>88846447
I actually remember when Rhodey took over Iron Man in the 80's while Tony was drunk and lost his company to Obadiah Stane. You see, THAT'S how you have a non-white character take over for an established white hero.

>>88845794
>makes deals with the devil
>morals
pick one

>>88836190
I can see why, the iconic characters like Iron Man and Hulk are killed off abruptly and replaced with a new character who just doesn't have enough issues or a complete arc to define themselves. The poor legacy characters get at least a few issues to establish themselves before being forced into a large crossover event like Civil War and caught up in a pissing match between two major Superheroes. Meanwhile, HYDRA, who went semi legit are watching the news during lunch break in their offices and laughing their ass of when footage of the Avengers fighting each other

>>88846447
Technically Doom is the new Iron Man (for some fucking reason) and Riri is.....well her name is still undecided thanks to porn. But yeah you're right. For some reason writers today have this mentality that people can only identify with characters that look similar to them.

>>88846571
>For some reason writers today have this mentality that people can only identify with characters that look similar to them.
To be fair, that's sorta true. It's why Hollywood doesn't cast Asians that much and even go so far as cast white actors for roles that should've been for an Asian.

>>88846516

Progressive is a really arrogant title to bestow upon oneself, not "Mr Fantastic" arrogant, but still...

>>88846566

I remember that scene, better thee than me, and something about the second weakest lion taking out the weakest lion.

>>88846603

...

Do you even know what the word means out of the boogeyman image floating around your brain? It's not 'arrogant' in the slightest.

>>88846603
And so-called progressive are intolerant of other people not living up to their standards and ideas.

I mean, there's a fuckton of ignorant people out there. But trying to make yourself all so superior is really pretentious as fuck.

It's basically the Sun vs the Wind analogy. You don't change peoples' minds with force, you use subtle persuasion.

>>88846447
I don't understand why Marvel thinks pumping out this many legacy heroes is a good thing.
They rarely manage to sustain momentum after the first few issues and hardly ever match the original in terms of popularity.
All they accomplish most of the time is pissing off fans.

>>88846714
Exactly and they've resorted to insulting long-time fans for not whole-heartedly embracing new characters.

>>88846599
It's only true for retarded worthless trash, which is why only movies targeted at worthless trash do things like that.

>>88846566
>I actually remember when Rhodey took over Iron Man in the 80's while Tony was drunk and lost his company to Obadiah Stane. You see, THAT'S how you have a non-white character take over for an established white hero.

I might be misremembering but didn't the book still featured Tony quite heavily? That's how you have a legacy, the original shouldn't just disappear.

>>88846714

Marvel is on record several times saying they feel they get better numbers when fans are pissed off. They aren't interested in writing good stories. They want the next controversy that will get people to pick up the book.

The movies caused franchise fatigue. I'm notbig on cape stuff in general and didn't really like any of the DC stuff. The Marvel movies were OK and kinda neat for a while but I'm fucking sick of them already. And I didn't even see half of em.
More of the same doesn't work for mainstream audiences

>>88836684

I like to make fun of Marvel as much as the next guy but this is getting a bit sad. They really need to get their shit together and give people what they really want

>>88846765
Yes it did and that's why it works. Tony couldn't be Iron Man anymore thanks to his personal problems and gave it to Rhodey; someone he trusted and was able to do it well during the interim period.

>>88846748
It's Business 101, you appeal to the largest cash-paying demographics. Nobody in the US is going to sit and watch films with Asians because they can't relate to them.

>>88846772
And the fact that fans STILL buy into this shit baffles me. At what point do you realize you're chain is being jerked?

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since nobody is buying comics anymore
does this mean retailers will end up selling mangas instead!?

>>88846772
Marvel's also said they don't take readership poles and just gauge how fans are feeling at conventions.
The "more pissed=more sales" does work, but only for a little while. Look at how quickly Captain Hydra died now

>>88846830
The manga market is dead in the US as is anime. It's not the early 00's anymore.

>>88846830
No, they'll start pushing other hobbies more. Your LCS will drop most of its comic space for MtG.

>>88846826

Well for me it was way back when Runaways started going to shit. I think some people like to feel angry. They get addicted to the hate which drives then to keep picking shit up.

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>>88835971
>Frequent Barnes & Noble because too poor to buy comics/books, hate digital copies and love cheap coffee
Also the public library is scary here. Homeless people jack off in the psychology section
>can see the comics in my usual reading spot
>people only talk about DC
>people only buy DC
>only deadpool gets sold

How has Marvel managed to alienate their fanbase so quickly?

Pic unrelated

unfortunately, a movie ticket is worth the same value as 2 to 3 comic book sales, so until that changes, comics will still be the "lesser" medium.

>>88846680

It implies that the change you want is both inherently good and inevitable. That is arrogance. There are good arguements for cultural and social changes but putting on a cloak of moral superiority doesn't help anyone.

>>88846830
Manga sales died off completely.

>>88846901

>inherently good

yeah things like no one living in poverty is real debatable

>>88846826
>Nobody in the US is going to sit and watch films with Asians because they can't relate to them.
Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan sell pretty well.

>>88846896
>Homeless people jack off in the psychology section
Pottery.

>>88846999
Yeah in kung fu flicks which is what people expect an Asian to be in. But you don't see Asians casted as film noir investigators, frat house comedians, romantic leads, or even superheroes for that matter.

>>88846680
I think everyone has an idea on how to progress from here, but most people don't make some vague concept like that their defining political ideology

>>88845747
Funnily enough, I think we're starting to see the pendulum swing away from capes to the original dominant subgenre of the industry ROMANCE COMICS

You think I'm joking but honestly, think about all of the successful kickstarters/patreons for romantic erotica

>>88847059
Does Hollywood even make noir movies anymore? The last noir I remember being released in the US was that stupid Dong Lover movie.

>>88844411
>There's years worth of continuity to wade through. Particularly in Marvel's case cuz DC at least had COIE to do a revamp of their universe.

Ppl who read comics because of the years of continuity. I'd say ppl also like how the comics have gotten darker and more rated T for teen since late 80's.

Anime/Video/TV/Netflix/movie based on stuff for a slightly older audience does well for the same reason.

>>88847059
well most of those roles tend to ve established white male American roles. You can tailor new ones that'd fit it.

>>88847123
I wouldn't mind seeing slice-of-life comics and other stuff. In fact, remember all those juvenile books we read from the 80's and 90's? That could easily translate to comics that kids would read.

Like The Great Brain series. Or even The Baby-sitters Club.

>>88846978
>yeah things like no one living in poverty is real debatable

Depends, you could say globalisation raises living standards for a lot of people worldwide taking them out of poverty but it also leads to stagnation of wages amongst the working class in the west.Is it better? Debateable.

Back to /co/ related this is why people are reading serpent guy's speech to falcon cap on immigration and nodding along.

Marvel has average folks siding with the villains, that's how far off the deep end they are going.

>>88847059
>But you don't see Asians casted as film noir investigators, frat house comedians, romantic leads, or even superheroes for that matter.

Speaking of, how is that CHEW adaptation tracking?

>>88846599
>To be fair, that's sorta true. It's why Hollywood doesn't cast Asians that much and even go so far as cast white actors for roles that should've been for an Asian.

And yet they really love casting black actors for anything including blackwashing even though the rest of the world doesn't care about black people that much.

>>88847179

>Back to /co/ related this is why people are reading serpent guy's speech to falcon cap on immigration and nodding along.

yeah that's on /co/. the first clue you shouldn't believe him? that he's a goddamn nazi!

>>88847175
Have you been reading Gotham Academy? I find that it scratches that itch quite well...

Sure, it technically exists in a "cape" universe but you don't need an encyclopedic knowledge of the DC Universe to enjoy it

>>88847204
The reason is pretty simple

Black people will whine and call you a racist if you don't bow down to their demands, while brown, yellow and red people just don't give a shit. Especially Asians, they couldn't care less

>>88846923
>>88846854
western manga sales did get spike in 2016 thanks to OPM and AoT according to the kodansha comics publishing company

i doubt that spike will keep going up this year
but ill be suprised if it does

>>88844523
You just bring Revanche back as the dominant personality. I doubt the Betsy fans would even make a peep.

>>88847181
I'm pretty sure that's dead. They got their option money and it fell apart or something.

>>88847204
Which really bites them in the ass when it comes to the Chinese market. Chinese don't like seeing blacks and other non-whites in movies yet Hollywood is compelled to showcase them. They're fucked on both sides.

>>88847278
Dragon Ball Super starts airing in English this weekend.
I think that's the best chance for manga to sell well in the US.

>>88847267
Different shades of brown have different levels of asspain. Poo-in-loos and Cubans don't care but border hoppers are always upset and arabs want everyone dead for the glory of Allah. Reds are angry when they're sober but they're never sober.

>>88844102
I know Moore's too much of a sad old prick to do big two again, but why is Morrison not going to do Marvel again?

>>88846999
Lucy Lucy and Olivia Munn are the only ones I can think of on TV or Movies.

>>88847349
i doubt the anime will get people here to buy the manga

the figurines and bluray sales maybe

>>88846826
>It's Business 101, you appeal to the largest cash-paying demographics. Nobody in the US is going to sit and watch films with Asians because they can't relate to them.
That's kind of a white person only problem. Most other races consistently don't give a fuck about what race the actors are when it comes to buying tickets. I say most since I'm sure mainland chinese would not care to see any movie with black people in it.

>>88836143
Hey, he'd at least get the event books out on time.

>>88847059
>>88846999
>>88847494
Harold and Kumar was a thing once.

>>88847354

You're not wrong but I was mostly talking about representation in Hollywood movies. With the way every mexican in movies is either a gangsta or a cholo (or a gangsta cholo) you'd think they'd be in uproar but you never hear from them. And there's also the fact that there's more brown people than black people in America

>>88847595
a pretty fucking big thing to

>>88847385
His bitch fest at the end of his X-Men run. Basically, he thought Marvel editorial (Claremont at the time) was too resistant to change.

As there was some drama about art assignments with his chosen partner being too slow.

>>88847267
>Especially Asians, they couldn't care less
Most Asian Americans are basically white liberals,
look what happened when Fox News made that skit about Asian Americans and then a bunch them started protesting. Seriously, they're becoming apart of SJW culture now.

>>88836223
>bendis
>straight

open secret in the comics industry that bendis is gay

>>88836223
>Bendis, Spencer, Hopeless
>straight white

they're jews

and bendis is well known to be a fag

>>88845654
Liberal racism tends to be based on assuming that the playing ground is equal now so clearly black people that don't make it are stupid or too much Atlas Shrugged.
A few years ago I saw some article where all the black tokens shared stories about how they realized their "friends" were racist.
One person had a friend that was a child of a record producer. Said friend thought that black people were inherently inferior because black musicians signing record deals in hopes of fame and fortune would get swindled by teams of lawyers with more experience than they've been alive. Therefore it was the black person's fault for not being able to outmaneuver experts with decades of experience at contract law specifically out to swindle them. Ergo black people are naturally stupid for not being rich yet. But you're an exception Token.
Another had some longass dissertation on eugenics and evolution.

>>88842170
No clue what RLM said about it, but the big problem about Rogue One is that it expects us to care about all these characters that it barely spends time developing, and instead forfeits a huge chunk of the movie to an overextended action scene.

>>88847595
Those are Indians like Mindy Kaling tho.

>>88847494
Lucy Liu.

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>>88838781
REMINDER THAT ALL MARVEL APOLOGISTS ARE /lgbt/

>>88848023
>We already have a few agents with names in that board. Some of them have gatherd quite a big fanbase

But everyone hates tripfags?

>>88847936
John Cho is Korean.

>>88847211
The most hamfisted way to take a potentially reasonable opinion, and make it seem absurd, is to pair it along with something inherently disagreeable.

Last year I heard so many fucking things compared to Nazism, you'd think Hitler had finally come out of hiding in Antarctica, and was marching troops from pole to pole.

>>88848023
I feel like I missed out on that, and I spent the whole summer on /r9k/.

>>88848093
Indeed, this explains it pretty well
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawmanHasAPoint

>>88848056
>But everyone hates tripfags?

This is why it doesn't work, outside of quests tripfags are universally hated. Plus shaming and persuasion is completely useless against AUTISM! It's like using energy blasts on Bishop.

Marvel should make novels. Complete superhero stories you can get in one book.

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>>88848093
Hitler won't awake from his long slumber until Merkel finishes her work.

>>88846516
>in his very first comic established an interracial romance

white guys with asian bitches is EXTREMELY politically incorrect

there's NOTHING "liberal" about that

What's funny is that even if Marvel did a reboot, and made the lineup original Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Wolverine, Spider-Man and Hulk, that still won't bring people back because that hype train has left. We're at the point that Marvel has divided their fanbase so much that nobody will be pleased with what they do, and what they will be pleased with won't sell.

>>88848098

I'm more amused at the idea that they think they can raid 4chan. Raiding 4chan is just pissing in an ocean of piss. We don't even notice the drizzle.

>>88840912
>Keep in mind the sort of person who would declare themselves "antagonized" over this.

People with the money who spend said money on comics.

>>88848265
I'd go back if they hired people that could write worth a damn and editors that could reign in the writers. They could even keep all the "diverse" heroes in place and I wouldn't care.

>>88848265
I feel like Marvel could bring people back with #1's solely featuring original characters with no legacies.
It's just that Marvel's really bad at keeping momentum.

>>88848300
reminder that the ocean is literally fish piss and if you swim in it you are committing watersports bestiality

>>88848149
They tried this. Doesn't bring in $$$. DC has tried this with Earth One grafic novels. I'm not sure how well that has went.

>>88848296
>this projection

>>88848368

Hey. At least some of it has to be whale piss.

>>88841956
He's more an ethical egoist than a conservative.

His books wouldn't fly with christ-fags.

>>88841514
I wouldn't remove all brown people, I'd just fucking have them written competently; I want cool stories, not ideology poorly wrapped in a costume. I'm practically a commie, but even I can tell that a quality story is the most important part of a storytelling medium and people are legitimately put off by the current trends.

>>88841514
I don't give a fuck about the political views of the writers.

... AND THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT.

They need to just remove 100% of political content from their comics.

Then they need to stop hiring literal amateurs. Drawing a webcomic or writing a blog does not qualify someone to produce professional work in ANY field.

>>88848504

This. In the 70s Blaxsploitation hit comics in a big way, but the characters lasted because they were interesting. Power-Man, Blade, Storm were all interesting characters with interesting stories.

>>88848784
>They need to just remove 100% of political content from their comics.

Divorcing an entertainment medium from politics is impossible, everything is politics, anything can be used as an allegory. But using obvious strawmen and soapboxing should be removed.

>>88848784
A webcomic is a perfectly reasonable stepping stone to print comics.

>>88836079
The idea is that their old audience, being fat nerds, will bitch but will come crawling back anyway to get the stuff they want while also drawing in new fans. This works when most of what your'e producing is the stuff your long time fans want. When you take away all of that, replace it with books catering to a minority of a minority of people and then constantly insult and belittle anyone who has a problem with it then it turns out that actually will drive away the long time fans.

>>88848784

You can be political without being retarded. The problem is that current marvel writers and their fans posess zero subtlety.

>Marvel Writer: I'll have Miles fight a villain named Tronald Dump.
>Comics Alliance and AV Club: MARVEL HAS DONE IT AGAIN

>>88848784
>Then they need to stop hiring literal amateurs.
Wasn't the writer for the MockingBird comic a young adult novelist who bragged about sneaking in the word "Tampon" in one of her comics on Twitter?

>>88847354
>Reds are angry when they're sober but they're never sober.

Kek.

As a red (not that 1/16 bullshit either, my parents were born on a rez), I actually cringe a little whenever an feather indian is in a comic or a video game. His name will invariably be a play on the word "tomahawk" or he'll be one with nature and shit.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head that wasn't bad was Wyatt Wingfoot, and Marvel ended up fucking him up and doing shitty injun stories with him.

>>88845595
>enforcing his values on rural voters
>voters

You're part of the problem

>>88848784
A good chunk of modern webcomics are better than modern comics.

>>88845595
Shut up you fucking worthless hick.

>>88848911
>when your political soapboxing gets so bad that Red(pill) Skull's rants start sounding like he has a point when you use him as strawman

>>88846571
>well her name is still undecided thanks to porn.
???

>>88848994
It's not always "tomahawk"; Marvel and DC both have "Scalphunter"s.

>>88835971

When I was a kid spider-man cartoons got me to buy spider-man comics.... every now and then, not on the regular. I bought them at super markets. Marvel needs to solicit some publications to targets and corporate retail stores. It made them fail before, but its what they need to do now. We need Avengers, X-men, Deadpool, spider-man and GotG comics in stores any kid can walk into and buy. About 10 titles made to be gotten anywhere.

also make them not suck.

>>88841514

What needs to happen is that writers should focus on telling a good story first, and if they must espouse their politics do so subtlely with strict editorial control. Mark Miller's Ultimates seems subtle compared to modern marvel.

Also they should delete their twitter and public facebook accounts. No. More. Good boy points.

>>88836697
Early 00s.
Ultimate Universe was good. Bendis and Millar.
Morrison was on X-Men.
Milligan and Allred were on X-Force
Bendis was on Daredevil.
Garth Ennis was on Punisher
Priest was on Black Panther
Straczynski hadn't shat the bed on Spider-Man yet.
Plus all the little one-offs like the Loeb color books or Morrison's FF, or Bendis' Alias.

For X-Men, Marvel Knights, and the Ultimate U., it was a great time to be a fan.

>>88849017
>Webcomic
Gunnerkrigg Court and that other one that I see semi often on /co/ aren't marvel/DC level.

>>88848994

What about the Panther guy who fought spider-man?

>>88848998

What problem is that, anon?

>>88849219
It's clear that that anon is making this issue about the election and acting like the Dem/Rep line is the divider for literally every aspect of life.

>>88847059
that's because liberals openly hate asians

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>>88849279
>liberalism is responsible for 100% of all poverty and you know it

>>88847059
this has nothing to do with the post you're replying to

the dude pointed out that no one cares about "relating" to characters based on race and he was 100% right

>>88847600
>gangsta or a cholo

wtf is the difference?

>>88849279
Almost every major recession and depression in US history was either during or the year following a Republican president, especially when a Republican followed another Republican.