Lolita General: Halloween Intensifies

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I got my Antique Beast order in the other day, this was from the order that was open in early September.
>just letting others know if they're waiting for their orders as well

For those who might still be following Meltia, the lolita idol group:
https://youtu.be/nZWFqpUQXjc

Apparently they'll be releasing singles on iTunes soon. People don't seem to really talk about them anymore but I thought it was worthy information.

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>>9227874
correction: the EP is already available!

>>9227874
>>9227878
thanks for the update anon!
it's far too late on their partimo, they already announced their final live i thought?

How much shit would I get for buying a GLW wig? I've looked everywhere but can't find a ringlet wig I like better than theirs. I wasn't very active online during any of their drama so I could feign ignorance, but if people are just going to try and shame me for it anyway I won't bother.

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Reccomendations for jewellery shops? I'm looking to stock up on some cute pieces, especially brooches/rings. Places similiar to Automatic Honey would be nice, but please link what you've got!

Does anyone have any experience cancelling an order with IW? I know on the site they say that it can't be cancelled after it's been processed, but if they haven't gotten back to me can I shoot them an email requesting it be cancelled? I'm just salty I forgot to check CC before order and ofc it was there cheaper.

>>9227899
I have one and no one gives a fuck. In fact everyone is always complimenting it and asking where they can buy one. the people who want to crucify you for it are exactly what's weong with the lolita community.

>>9227899
People warn against supporting their business for various stretchy reasons including the racist marketing and the owner calling past customers "venomous", but if you have the money and didn't like animestuffstore's ringlet wigs then go for it.
Just don't expect something amazing and if you have a problem with the wig they're probably not going to help you.

>>9227899
People who shame people for stupid shit like that are like religious nuts who try to point out everyone sins. I would just feign ignorance and tell people to not worry about shit they see online. Paying attention to people online is pretty ridiculous.

>>9228201
Other than GLW and Lockshop (unless Lockshop got better? But I doubt it), would you recommend wigs from Arda for lolita? Or cyperous?

>>9227932
Most likely, you'll get banned from being able to order from IW.

>>9227899
Honestly I doubt anyone will know unless you tell them. I still have four GLW wigs I wear regularly that I bought before all the drama and they're some of my nicest wigs.

>>9227932
you'll be banned if you cancel it like that

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I can't tell if BTSSB is taking the piss with this dress, it lookks exactly like it's made of curtains -- and they included the tassel tiebacks plus the flowers they swiped from a nearby vase as well, how thoughtful.

Anyway, curious to hear other gull's thoughts on this dress. I'm well aware of how the OTT trend + tea length dresses combined to bring us here, but this one seems to be crossing over into some kind of fantasy Rococo style. Seems like you just need to be a little shorter than the model to wear this to a revival ball or something.

>>9228755
It looks exactly like it's been made to pander to the Chinese market. Most Chinese have no sense of 'tacky', something that looks this pastel OTT and fancy no doubt will have them lining up for it.

>>9228295
Arda isn't bad if your on a budget and (if it's in stock) want it within a week.
Cyperous is a good investment overall, however.
It's more in personal taste, but they both have overall good reps and customer service.

>>9227929
Japanese brands
AP, btssb, qpot, nile perch, swankiss, sanrio JP jewelry, kokokim, paris kids on Rakuten Global, Kokokim,

Western stuff
>https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/ShoujoShop
>http://store.kumacrafts.com/
>http://cutecankill.storenvy.com/
>https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/CuteMoonbunny
>https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/JellyUltra
>https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/PreciousBbyz (just some cute pins/brooches, no jewelry)
>https://www.etsy.com/ca/shop/SweetDollyHouse


Not many places make the style of jewelry AH does, or if they do it is not really in a jfashion style. All the places I listed do sweet stuff

Is it true there are only 2 lolita shops in Paris now, AP and baby? I'm going there for the first time and I think the shopping guides I found are a bit outdated.

does anyone with a large bust (around 101cm) have experience with atelier pierrot shirred blouses? i'm looking into getting one, and while i'm well below the max measurements, i'm still a little hesitant.

>>9228789
A little off topic, but I heard baby paris store is closing in around one year because no money

>>9228882
That's sad to hear. They have a really shitty location, especially compared to AP, but they have better prices and more variety than AP.

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Might be a weird question, but does anybody here own the Rosy Night's Masquerade JSK I (or a JSK with the same cut) and can measure the hem circumference for me? I won't be home for a week but want to sew a matching underskirt during that time and need a rough estimate. Thanks for your help!

>>9228897
>>9228898
Go be retarded somewhere else, pls.

>>9228897
>>9228898
Are you lost or just dumb?

>>9228097
>>9228201
>>9228216
>>9228319
Thanks anons, I think I'll just go ahead and order one. I already figured it wouldn't be the most amazing quality ever but it's not like there are many alternatives for old school ringlet wigs anyway.
If someone complains to me about the company I'll just say I don't know what they're talking about. Fortunately there aren't any really confrontational dramallamas in my comm so I think I'll be fine.

>>9228888
I own the other JSK version, sorry anon. I wish I could be of help. I hope someone else chimes in though!

>>9228909
Have you heard of Maple? They're much better quality and legit old shool.

>>9228922
They were my first stop, but unfortunately they don't ever seem to have the color I want in the style I want.

>>9227929
This one is new but it has potential.
http://sugaralchemylabs.com/

>>9228888
I just measured mine for you anon and it's roughly 214 cm (48 in).

>>9228950
Thank you kind anon, I really appreciate it!

All my mercari & yahoo auctions stuff came in. 5kg of burando on the way to me. Feels good!

>>9229099
nice anon! was this just a month of stuff? can we see your haul? i love seeing shit come in the mail.

just got my 3kg package shipped earlier this week too.

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My comm's halloween party is about to start. The venue is fully catered and decorated nicely for us!

>>9227929

There's a ton of enamel pin makers around with things that might work. I find most of them through Instagram. Finding other enamel jewelry is more difficult.

https://leilaolive.com/ ( she also has a necklace available)
https://www.etsy.com/shop/TitinaStore
https://www.etsy.com/shop/RamblingHands

>>9229351
Well, at least the food looks good. Your camera is terrible however. And those chairs look uncomfortable.

>>9229447
Gonna need some halloween candy to balance out all this salt

>>9229459
What is there to be salty about exactly? Why would you post a picture like that on 4chan and expect to get ass pats?

>>9229474
Because she's an idiot.

>>9229351
Just ignore the asshole.

Your meet looks fun. Someone's just jelly. Seriously they had nothing to pick at so they chose "your chairs look uncomfortable" what a loser.

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>http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b227993992

I don't understand why this person thinks this belongs under the angelic pretty tag. Please no.

>>9229474
Ass pats? Just want to get a convo going about Halloween meets and watch everyone one-up each other with pics from theirs. I love Halloween meetups.

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What is more acceptable to wear to a brand tea party? Lolita specific offbrand knockoffs/replicas or mainstream mary janes?

>>9229675
They don't check your shoes if you're wearing knockoffs. Wear what's comfy and goes with the coord.

>http://s377.photobucket.com/user/sweetexpedition/library/GLB%20Vol%207?sort=3&page=1

GLB volume 7, feel free to request better uploads of specific pages

>>9228755
This isn't lolita imho

>>9229484
They also had to make a comment about the camera because everyone must have a high end camera. The other anon just needs to chill out. This looks like a lovely meet up and I'm jelly that my comm is having one when I'm out of the country. But I won't be salty because someone gets to go to a What seems to be well planned meet because of my misfortune.

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Since there's no new release thread right now, what does everyone think of the new Meta nun dress? I really like the idea/old school vibe but noticed the gold embroidery and noped out. I'm super anal about not mixing gold and silver, and wanted to use silver jewelry with the full black outfit but just can't do it since noticing the embroidery.

>>9229769
love it.

>>9229769
Obsessed with the solid black, wow.

>>9229769
You could just use a different collar?

>>9228883
Source?!

>>9229769
The collar is removable so like >>9229814 said, you can use a different one.
I really like this OP but I wish it was longer and had different lace. Tulle lace looks so cheap and flimsy.

I could, but a cursory look hasn't revealed anything super similar that's readily available. I basically want the collar shown in the stock photo of the grey one (with the silver embroidery) because the whole thing is perfect except gold embroidery, but the English says the grey will have gold embroidery too (otherwise I would seriously consider buying both)

Derp, >>9229821 was a reply to >>9229818 and
>>9229814

>>9229821
I don't know if it helps but there's this: http://page5.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e199720473 I have it and it's more beige than white so it wouldn't match the petticoat/underskirt that comes with the OP, and there's already one bid on it, but it's there if you want it.

>>9229824
Thanks for looking for me - I had been thinking about IW but I would ideally want to wear the underskirt/collar and cuffs/headdress combination and different shades of white would annoy me as well. I may take the plunge and buy the dress, then commission something with the closest fabric match I can find.

>>9229351
>youtried.jpg

>>9229675
It's considered rude to wear shoe replicas to a brand tea party. They most likely won't check your shoes, but most of the time the difference between the original and the replica is noticeable. Go with the generic mary janes if you can.

>>9229492
Stop posting this everywhere. We get it. It's cringey.

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I found out that using Woolite instead of regular laundry detergent took care of the glittery armpits one of my blouses had from using an old spice antiperspirant that had a lot of aluminum in it.

>>9227867
Does anyone know any solid ways to fix discolouration? I'm eyeing off some secondhand blouses on Wunderwelt, but the discoloration is what's making it affordable. Are there any at home methods? Could a dry cleaner do it?

>>9229868

See

>>9229866

Maybe?

>>9229866
Awesome anon! Its really satisfying figuring out how to properly care for your lolita. For a long time I was really too scared to do so but now I put a lot of my dresses into the washing machine.

A way that I've used to remove yellowed pit stains is a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and baking soda, scrub it into the stains with a toothbrush, and then wash like regular or rinse out from the material.

>>9229351
The decorations look really adorable! I love the cluster of items near the ceiling.

Secrets!

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This one made me laugh way too much

>>9229889
What were they thinking when they drew this jfc

Did anyone just jump on Melty Cream Donuts from AP USA? Why no socks??? I can't believe I was literally too slow

>>9230095
it's not uncommon for them to not release socks at the same time

are you new?

>>9230100
No, not at all, just I've never followed a release like this where items are selling out within minutes that didn't include socks simultaneously. I guess it's just flown under my personal lolita radar.

>>9230101
>No, not at all, just I've never followed a release like this where items are selling out within minutes that didn't include socks simultaneously.
So you are new.

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I know this is old news, but I can't get over how cute Meta's Matryoshka Doll print is. I normally don't even like prints (or meta in general to tell the truth) but this is just hnnngg

>>9230119
it's hideous

what are you on?

>>9230119
This isn't my typical style but I love it too!

>>9230120
It's about as hideous as your average Meta dress, I think. It's not bad.

>>9229889
This is such a hoorible idea for a print. A teddy with bondage-like ribbons on his body, with a pacifier in his mouth laying on a rocking horse like someone threw him there.
What a good way to show hoq lolita is not an age-play fetish thing.

>>9230119
I absolutely love the apron cut. It's so adorable and unique, I fancy it so much.

>>9230120
It's Meta, how new are you?

>>9230119
It's prety adorable. I was really waffling on getting this print but I'm glad I did.

>>9230107
It's possible to not be new and also not give a fuck about sitting around all day hitting F5, repeating the process month after month for dresses that I believe will give me some form of status in the community. I think the bloodbaths are a little pathetic.

>>9229857
Wat. This is the only place I posted it.

>>9230224
You don't have to hit F5 all day to have heard about this release. And if you knew a lot of people wanted it, why are you surprised by the bloodbath?

>>9230224
Kek, newfag confirmed.

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>>9230224
Excuse me ma'am, your newfag is showing.

>>9230251
>>9230241
>>9230242
Not that I super care what anons think but I'm just curious why someone who doesn't particularly care about releases = newfag? I literally just wear the clothes, prestigious and sought-after releases are just not a big deal to me.
And I wasn't surprised by the bloodbath, just curious if I missed the socks. You guys have some issues.

>>9230266
Nobody said anything but sought-after but you.

Stop being so #triggered someone called you out on being new. It's a consistent occurrence that they release the socks and accessories later. You not knowing this reeks of you being new.

>>9230267
about sought-after*

>>9230267
I'm seriously not triggered, just amazed and confused at the (lack of) logic. Anyone calling me newfag literally has zero to do with how long I've been wearing lolita so I do not care.

>>9230280
Anon, it's time to stop posting. You are very obviously new. Your reaction to being called new, not knowing AP releases socks and accessories later, bitching about bloodbaths being silly, all this stuff leads to you being a massive newfag

>>9230280
>>9230266

Because there's always someone bitching about it almost every release. AP just started doing delayed legwear this year. And by this year I mean by now we've had like a bajillion different girls dropping into lolita general to bitch about lack the legwear every single release. It's been a constant stream the whole. bloody. year.

People aren't just complaining you're new because you don't keep up. People are complaining because really, this topic? Again? For the bajillionth-plus-one time?

okay so perhaps a weird question or one that has already been answered but

best deodorant for lolita? to avoid aluminumy glittery yellowed armpits. is the yellowing due to deodorant reacting with sweat and fucking everything up, or is yellowing inevitable?

what do i put on my pits, /cgl/?

>>9230294
Try Le Stick; it's a pretty tough deodorant that doesn't have aluminum in it, so no glitter pits and breast cancer risks. I used to use Toms, but that didn't do shit, so Le Stick is like Toms x100.

>>9230287
AP has always had delayed releases for different items in the series. It's not just this year, check their blog.

>>9229747
>everyone must have a high end camera
Sorry for thinking lowly of people who don't purchase high end phones that have good cameras. Same way people look down on other for buying from taobao so much so, they created a group to not include taobao lolita releases.

>>9229604
>drawing attention to yourself
>posting on /cgl/
seriously what did you expect.

>>9230119
I like it, it think the OP from the folk clothing lolita thread would like this

>>9229871
If you get cuff stains or a small oil stain on any white part of our dress (like i did today rip) Shout, warm water and hand scrubbing work like a charm

>>9230235
it was posted in the Ita thread. perhaps another anon also posted it there.

>>9229769
>new nun dress
new dream dress, I fucking love it

when you guys go out in lolita and people take pictures, how do you find them? i went to a small meet today, none of us took any pictures, but someone else did who had a fancy camera. I want to find it so i can save it, but nothings turning up. any tips?

>>9230439
ask the other girls about the person with the camera. in the future, approach them after the photo and ask for their info or if you can have the picture. easy way to prevent this from happening.

>>9230415
And look how well that group is doing...

>>9229769
Love it.
Sometimes I feel like Meta is the only brand that cares about me

>>9230294
If it's really bad consider buying garment shields or placing a panty liner in the armpit of your blouse.

>>9230544
What I find weird/funny is that any dipshit can Google the main Japanese brands to see their upcoming releases. The Taobao ones are harder to find and therefore benefit from a central group..

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Why do I keep getting this message? It's with all my cards so it's not like it's being picky with one particular card. I wanted to get a present for someone.

At first I tried to ship it to an address different from my billing address and never realized they were picky about that.. So I figured "Eh, whatever, I'll just ship it to my house and give it to them."

But even with changing my address to match the shipping address I'm getting this message now.

>>9230574
kek

you've been banned from the AP store

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>>9230576
Nice desu ne. I thought that was the case but wanted to confirm. Time to hit up that Contact Us page. That's ridiculous, it's not like I reversed a charge on them or anything.

>>9230574
Uh oh. This happened to me once and all the attempts were charged onto my card, resulting in me having to call AP San Francisco to get the charges removed. It too 5 days for overdraft to clear.

>>9230296
>>9230566
thanks gulls, my pitstains appreciate this

it's hot as fuck where i live and scrubbing out the yellow every time is trying my patience

i know this is probably the worst place to ask since half of this website hates fat people

but what are some websites that have plus size Lolita dresses?

>>9230579
Good thing I have like $2k credit limit on all the cards I used but I really never wanted to backcharge them or anything. If they just too my money in the first place and weren't tinfoil hat about me being an identity thief then there wouldn't be a problem.

>>9230606
lurk more newfag

>>9230606
How fat is fat, anon? A lot of AP and Meta has shirring that is pretty forgiving as of late. But Chinese brands (see the flood of taobao updates on Lolita updates) may offer custom sizing or larger sizes. And Haenuli too.

>>9230572
Then make a separate group? It's practically one person posting anyways.

>>9230300

Nah, it's usually the jewellery and accessories that's delayed. They'd sporadically delay the legwear, but in 2016 it's getting to be a pattern where you don't really expect the legwear to be released with the dress anymore, which is why a lot of girls are taken by surprise specifically by the delay in legwear, not the jewellery. Most of my purchases from 2015 and older have the matching legwear because I was able to buy them the same time as I bought the jsk, my 2016 purchases tended to have missing legwear because by the time AP puts them up I've lost interest.

>>9230619
i lurked for the last three threads and didn't see much
>>9230620
thanks alot ill look at those sites
>>9230625
there it is

>>9230623
There's already one for both lol. Then some anon made a non-taobao one. It's not doing well cause a lot of people ae okay with taobao actually. But of course gulls think it's okay to be wildly pretentious and stuck up.

>>9230639
lurk. more.

>>9228755
Trashy af.

>>9230646
You sound like a parrot.

>>9230643
I get so bored with Baby and AP sometimes. Taobao definitely keeps it interesting between meta releases.

Not ready for it's own thread yet, obviously, so I'll ask here real quick:

Is the beginning of November a good time to start organizing a Secret Santa - Getting everybody's details and matching them up over November and then giving everybody ample time to buy and ship in December?

I know that the last tow years' organizers got super stressed out over the whole thing so I'm going to try this year, but want to avoid the same issues by doing it earlier.

>>9230664
The earlier the better Anon! Especially if there are international people involved. I'd love to take part in the secret santa this year but I'm always afraid of the postal services here taking ages to send things out, especially around the holidays.

>>9230664
Idk, it already seems late to me. /a/ accepts people in October so they can shop during November and ship in December. We're a smaller board so the number of participants doesn't warrant such a long sign-up period but people are busy and truly do need a couple months to shop and mail out gifts.

>>9230664
Start it up now! I'm sure a lot of us also like ordering from overseas for gifts, so the more time, the better.

>>9230677
>>9230691
>>9230699
Okay, sweet! I'm doing the form up right now ad I'll make a thread when I'm done.

I honestly hadn't thought of the SS at all until tonight when I realized I hadn't heard anything.

>>9228755
Here's a video of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQZHdaNXyPk

I wish they would upload the rest of the fashion show and not just the Anna Tsuchiya part.

I know tassels and anything vaguely resembling curtains is super taboo here (see: everyone freaking out about AaTP's latest ouji coats etc) but I think it actually looks nice. I prefer crazy Rococo(?) shit like this over gyaru-like AP miniskirts.

>>9230702
Jeeeeesus it's hard to post links these days. I've spent twenty minutes trying everything short of making it completely unreadable..

Someone is selling an OP I'm interested in on EBay but it's a little damaged and I just had a dream that I bought it and the top was stretched out. I looked at their other items/selling history but it there wasn't much info about sizing.

>>9230713
Post a pic of text of the link or a custom tinyurl version if it as silly as that sounds.

>>9230779
Are there pictures of the damage or does the description just say that it's damaged? Maybe message the seller and ask?

>>9230783
It has buttons on the cuffs but one side is missing two of them.

>think i finally look decent in a photo
>check online after event
>petticoat slipped and is peeking out the bottom

it hurts to live, gulls. it's like clockwork.

any advice on preventing this? i'm not sure what exactly is wrong with my petti for it to do this.

>>9230639
In terms of taobao stores that may be friendly I recommend Little Dipper for the basics like blouses and more simple dresses. They actually have a super cute OP out right now that may work for you!

>>9230707
it's weird, maybe i got too used to misako and shit, but her face looks...weird with this type of lolita
i loved her in old-school but this ballroom-ott style doesn't mesh...

>>9230707
That Baby dress really does not suit Anna Tauchiya. It's just.... Too cutesy on her.

>>9230643

Not been following the general for ages, could someone link me to this 'non-tabao' release group? No luck with the archive.

>>9230637
I'm talking about before 2015 anon...

>>9230643
>not doing well
>76 members and was started recently
What does doing well mean to you? It looks like it's doing fine.

>>9230844
It's EGL Fashion Updates.

>>9230859

>It's EGL Fashion Updates.

Cheers anon

>>9230859
Eh, I was just going of what the other anon said. Besides, is not like it could be as big as the other one.

I just got a cute pair of printed tights and wore it with a pair of boots with a zipper on the back and when I took them off there was a small run. (I put nail polish on it to prevent it from getting bigger already). How do you guys protect your tights from getting snagged on zippers and other shoe hardware?

>>9230664
Especially if people want to take advantage of 11/11 sales that's a good idea!

>>9228882
Do you have a source for this? That's really sad.

I went to the Baby shop in Paris when I was there in the beginning of Jan 2014. I looked like utter shit (first time traveling abroad by myself, from Florida and not used to cold dry air, had gotten almost no sleep for nearly a week and had partied too hard in Amsterdam over the new year) and was in some of the normiest normie clothes but the shopgirl was nothing but polite and sweet to me. Helped me try quite a few things on. She even graciously let my stupid ass use the bathroom that is only meant for employees (I'd been guzzling hot beverages of any sort all day in a fruitless attempt to warm up).

The JSK I bought was marked up a lot, even after factoring how much shipping from Japan would have been had I bought it straight from the Baby online shop, but I suppose they also have to factor French custom charges into the prices which makes sense. Still, I got something that was totally sold out online and it's still my favorite piece by quite a bit.

I'm wondering if maybe the Baby shop in Paris should consider updating the way they display their stock online so it's more like the San Fran or NYC stores. That way it'd be easier for girls to check what they have in stock before going there and maybe make it easier for European lolitas to browse online and order that way.

>>9230829
Is it just too long for the dress you're wearing, or does it slip down your waist?
For the former, buy a shorter petti or get it altered. For the latter, you could try rolling the waist over a bit and pinning it in place or again, altering it to be more snugly fitting.

Also just in general before photos and such, ask someone if your coord is looking okay and if everything's in place.

>>9230854

Anything that old is not going to matter, though. The surprise is going from 2015 to 2016.

Do you all do anything special with your brand postcards? I have a bunch laying around and don't know what to do with them

>>9231301
upcoming cgl secret santa? ~

but if you wanna keep them, i keep all of mine in an album with some of the cutest framed to the wall.

>>9230619
>>9230646
anon said they lurked for 3 lolita threads and thats alot to lurk for.
if so many fatty-chans lurk without saying anything no questions would be asked so i don't see why you gotta be pissy about it

>>9231369
WOW three whole threads???

>>9231369
That's not a lot to lurk for. People need to lurk for at least a month before posting, if they do they don't ask absolutely stupid shit like she did.

>>9231301
I currently have mine in storage but I used to frame them. You could also put them in an album like >>9231327 does.

>>9229769
beautiful, why is the headdress sold out already

>>9231369
Dude I lurked for half a year before I even started posting questions and I'm definitely am a fattychan

>>9230120
The other colorways are more adorable imo. It's not "hideous". Now AP's piss yellow tartan, now that's hideous.

How do you decide between different cuts/colours of a print?

>>9231548
What ever one I like the best?

>>9229727
Pal, it's runway high fashion. It is lolita, just a really high form of it you will never be able to own.

>>9231565
They probably think it's a ball gown or something because if it doesn't have the exact shiloutte it's not lolita.

>>9231548
If it fits into my designated wardrobe colors, and if it doesn't it better be amazing. Cut has to always be just/low waist because high waist anything looks bad on me, so it's a matter of knowing what's best for your body type.

>>9231548
>tfw most cuts and colors suit me

Feelsgood but it's still an issue. I consider what colors look best, and after that I consider the rest of my wardrobe and whether i have enough pieces to coordinate with that color.

As for cuts it's more arbitrary, but each has its own unique details. A certain kind of collar may draw me more to an OP than its corresponding JSK. I'm a sucker for the rounded collars AP had been producing, like the one on the Milky Swan OP. So good.

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>>9232020
>tfw my entire wardrobe, normie included, is blackxpinkxmint.
>Charlotte's Bear in blue is my dream dress.

>>9232027
Same. The only color that looks bad on me is yellow, which makes me sad because yellow is my second favorite color. I also avoid long length anything because I'm on the shorter side and I just end up looking like a sister wife

>>9231565

It's not like it debuted at New York Fashion Week, though. "Baby and Alice Dreaming of Little Lovers Fashion Show" is btssb's fashion show, and the audience was mainly lolitas. Not really an event you can pull the "it's designed for high fashion" card with.

The list price was 400k iirc. Steep, but not really high fashion high either, I don't see how it's unattainable? Wouldn't be surprised if someone bought this for their wedding dress, tassels and fake flowers and all.


>>9231573

Yeah, that's kind of the point, how would you explain this to newbies; "oh yeah and then there's that dress that looks like a ballgown that btssb made, but please don't show up to tea parties in your ballgowns and prom dresses because yours isn't btssb", and "no, we're totally the lolita comm and not the costume reconstruction club"?

>>9232099
I don't really think this is lolita. It's a fancy, lolita influenced dress made by a traditionally lolita brand, in the same way that AP's salopettes are lolita influenced and often share prints with their lolita dresses, but are not lolita.

>>9229727
Japanese people are much more open minded about what is and isn't lolita. Some would say anything from a lolita brand is lolita, and things from JM, LG and ETC that fit a petti are also lolita.

>>9229769
I don't really get why people loved this one, it feels pretty basic to me, as if we had already seen it before a thousand times. Maybe if the bottom ruffles were... lace? The headdress, though, is really nice.

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I'm really tempted to get pic related since years but don't know if it's worth the 8888yens on mercari (+handling fees,SS fees and shipping fees) even though it's in perfect state.
Help.

>>9232202
I'd probably take it, to be desu. I've loved it for ages too, and $88 isn't really bad for such an old dress in good condition.

>>9232116
>>9229727


idk, it seems like the logical progression of current trends -- like, a mashup of btssb's OTT bridal dresses, and the tea-length dresses/underskirts trend. Wasn't lolita originally based off Rococo and Victorian designs anyway? Seems logical to me if some lolita dresses end up looking like period dresses since the influence was from there anyway.

I can't believe the western community has became so anal they are calling the centerpiece dress of a BtSSB fashion show "not lolita". Just because it
doesn't fit the "rules" made up by how2lolita.tumblr.com doesn't mean it isn't lolita. Everyone here is so worried about looking like an ita they've forgotten how to experiment.

>>9232202
i think it's worth it considering the age and condition, the bottom trim looks really clean. if i didn't have this print already i'd be tempted for sure.

>>9227929
one more for buns specifically. I actually like her's better than AH's buns.

http://www.ericawilliamsillustration.com/product-category/lapel-pin/

>>9232199
>I don't get why people like something basic
Well some of us like to fill our wardrobe with basic things so we have something simple to wear when not wearing outrageous prints.

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Found a Japanese lolita club on Facebook and omg the photos

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>>9232454
HER FACE I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING OMG

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>>9232455
>bottom left corner

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>>9232456
I actually really like how she matched the petti to her dress

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>>9232457
Starting to understand why they call lolita the fat girl fashion in Japan

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>>9232460
I'm honestly just in awe of her poof like it's so perfect

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>>9232464
I thought tabobao brands weren't that popular in Japan but that's def KL

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>>9232460
I feel terrible but I had to make this

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>>9232466
And end rando dump with a rando guy and some rando lolitas in the background. At least I had fun.

>>9232466
Hate to break it to you but those girls don't look Japanese.

>>9232467
There were more photos of her close up but I didn't want to be a dick and post them all

>>9232471
Well they were definitely in Sapporo when this picture was taken so idk what to tell you

>>9232471
>hate to break it to you but those girls don't look like the kawaii shoop-chans i see popularized on the internet

or

>hate to break it to you but those girls don't have the features that i expect a japanese girl to have because i am an expert on how japanese girls look and any japanese who differs from that is not japanese

ftfy

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>>9232454

>>9232482
I'm asian and can tell the difference between people from different countries? Because you know we don't all look the same

>>9232199

Elegant. The word you're looking for is elegant.

A dress doesn't need to be decked out in miles of trim, a clusterfuck print and a ten-layer underskirt to look good. Sometimes simple works better.

>>9232484
i'm japanese, dude

i can generally tell a little bit but just because we're asian doesn't mean we have this magical power to pick people out of the crowd

>>9232454
>>9232455
>>9232460
Damm, Japanese lolitas are ugly as hell.

I've lived in Japan for many years now, and lolita is not really considered a fashion for fat girls, although I see a decent amount of fatties. There is a general idea that ugly girls tend towards lolita and I think that is more or less true.

Here's my nasty impressions of some j-fashions:
Lolita: ugly or incredibly weird girls, lolita is considered the one of the least attractive fashions from a guy's perspective. Compensating for something.
What you call "otome-kei" (axes femme, etc): exclusively worn by what Japan calls "otasa-no-hime" or, loosely, princess of the anime club. Google image search オタサーの姫 to get an idea.
Gyaru: generally nasty sluts, but also some relatively normal girls who just want to do The Exact Opposite of what high school forced them to dress like (an extreme case of the daigaku debut). Mostly dead with young people in the city, now just bumpkins and gyaru-mama.
Mori-kei: totally dead, nobody dresses like this anymore although mainstream fashion is all about loose clothes now
Decora/yumekawaii/menhera/etc: middle schoolers

What /cgl/ calls "larme-kei" is the closest thing to how normal 'fashionable' girls dress, but I also think it's the most boring. The kind of clothes that are trendy right now are absolutely awful, it's all ugly wide pants and shit my mom would wear.

There are plenty of pretty lolitas in Japan, but lots of average or below people as well. And TONS of people who /cgl/ would consider "ita". I remember seeing this ~45 year old lady way too tall for her AP with her bloomers in full display and it was hideous. Even so, we shouldn't shit on them. They are literally the reason burando continues to exist. We should be grateful for all lolitas.

>>9232466
They've been gaining traction since they've been featured on recent GLBs

>>9232504
speaking of, I'm going to make a trip tp Kinokuniya some weekend and I want to know if this season's GLB is worth picking up. Any interesting freebies?

>>9232503
thank you anon. i'm sick of the weeb westerner mindset that implies the japanese lolita community is really any better. i kept contact with some of my lolita friends after i left home and they're still salty bitches just like the rest of us.

also the idea that japan is a country full of doll-people who love foreigners and wear lolita everywhere. i take petty satisfaction in people visiting japan and realizing that it's not the fantasy lolita wonderland they dreamed.

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Can someone help me figure out what kind of damage pic related is, what causes it and what, if anything, can be done to fix it? It's this odd whitening of fabric around areas that experience more friction, like cuffs and collars. This isn't my picture but it looks just like what happened to a good few of my IW pieces. Oddly enough I've only ever had this problem with IW.

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>>9232503
Thank you anon, your post was actually really interesting to read.

>lolita is considered one of the least attractive fashions from a guy's perspective.
>implying lolitas care about what boys think

I googled otasa no hime but don't quite get it though.

I agree about decora/yumekawaii/menhera being principally middle schoolers, gyaru and mori being dead (always loved mori though i try to incorporate mori elements in my lolita when i'm not sweet)
And larme kei is boring to me as well.

>>9232554
"Otasa Princess" is a name given to the few or lone females in cultural clubs and circles usually dominated by males. Usually attracting otakus by their style.

>>9232554
otasa is short for otaku circle. A circle is like a club or group. So the princes of the otaku group is like that one girl who is an otaku herself, but also attracts otaku guys for being female and dressing kinda like anime characters.

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>>9232454
>>9232455
>>9232456
>>9232457
>>9232460
>>9232464
>>9232466
Aw man some of these are unfortunate pics or some girls really are ugly (as much as it hurts me to say so) but for their defense
>get told i'm a cute girl
>not trying to humblebrag, i'm told so by pretty straightforward people who sure don't sugarcoat their words
>think myself that i am fine/ok and even "cute" looking at times
>look like absolute shit in pics (tired,stoned or awkward as fuck).

So maybe it's just bad pics for some. And even then, I saw some ok and cute girls in the pack.
Not all japanese lolitas/jfashionistas are uggo.There are unfortunate looking people in every country.
>mfw my heart legitimately hurt when i see "ugly" girls in lolita because i don't want people to hurt them and i just want them to be happy

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>>9232554
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply lolitas gave a shit about what guys think. That's actually one of my favorite parts about lolita.

About the otasa no hime thing: clubs are a big deal in college, and clubs that are mostly male are called "otaku circles". The girls in them are referred to as "otasa no hime" because, due to their rarity, they are treated like princesses. They tend to wear brands like axes femme.

Here's a good example of what are referred to as virgin-killing clothes (referring to male virgins): http://americanboss.hatenablog.jp/entry/2015/07/09/021131
From Emily Temple cute on it's exceptions to the list, and it lists Baby, AP etc. as 'impossible to use casually' and out of the listing. That's just how niche lolita is. Of course this is just some blogger's opinion, but I think it's pretty accurate.

Most girls are afraid to wear otome-kei because they'll be seen as an otasa no hime, personally I think it can look really cute done right. But the majority of the time, some uggo will be wearing it.

Lolita will always be my favorite because it has a kind of independence from both the rest of mainstream and not-so-mainstream fashion, and also men's opinion. Otome-kei is essentially lolita toned down enough to be appealing to guys.

(Pic related is from the "Otasa-no-Hime Research Club" at Waseda)

>>9232581
>http://americanboss.hatenablog.jp/entry/2015/07/09/021131
Same anon. I just wanted to mention that even though this blog post has Innocent World as its #1, that doesn't mean it's otome-kei and not lolita or something, it's just easy to wear casually enough to be either.

>>9232575
There were plenty of photos I found on the Facebook page of mainly pretty girls but I was just sharing photos of the ones that struck me for whatever reason. I'm with you anon, I'm decent looking myself but unless I'm taking the photo I look like shit. Plus, ugly girls have to wear something, it's not like it's their fault they're not attractive.

>>9232581
No no don't worry i was just laughing that people thought we give a damn about what some boys think about our frilly dresses.

Ahh I see, you actually seem to know quite a lot about how people see jfashs in japan, if you have more to tell us i would love to hear it.
I think otome is really cute and I plan to wear it as i get older if i get "tired" of wearing lolita and want something more simple to wear. I wear lolita pretty casually but it'll always be my fave as well. I fell in love with it when i was 14, turned 21 and still love it as much.

I'll have to read that thing, there are so many interesting untranslated obscure mangas/doujins/one shots/... about jfashs (like Musashino Sen Shimai) but i can't read moonrunes.

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>>9232503
>otasa-no-hime
I didn't know this could be a life goal but now it is. I don't even think there's an anime club on campus here but fuck it, this'll be a great booster for looking cute on campus.

>>9232527
It's just the dye fading and the threads being worn bare. You can spot-redye the blouse and it should fix it right up.

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>>9232575
i know that feel, but it's just awkward posing

i feel like we've talked about this before, you and me

romantic westerners always seem so shocked when they see average-looking japanese

>>9232593
>tfw otasa no hime

fucking STEM. it's not fun

i just want to talk about tech shit without being pandered to by gross nerds and i always feel like i'm unintentionally breaking their circle by being a well-dressed girl. but more power to you if you're the kind of gal who wants orbiters, i guess. i just get tired of being their kawaii japanesthe konpyuuta printhesth.

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>tfw was an otasa no hime at least once
4chan meets man.
Went once, dressed cute but not too outlandish. Didn't plan to be the only girl in the group. Never saw that many guys orbiting around me at once. I was uncomfortable at first but it turned out actually flattering and they were nice dudes besides being awkward (or kinda creepy). I got free food and drinks, they were real sweet. I still feel lowkey bad about it.
>tfw i'm a lesbian
>their faces when i implied it in a conversation at the end of the meet
>some filled with despair and some filled with lust
Boys sure are strange.

>>9232581
I wish we called otome kei otasa hime in the West

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>>9232581
>>9232593
>オタサーの姫
I looked it up and I'm dying because this is totally me in college. Bonus: I was in my school's anime club.

>>9232601
If I were you I'd probably be sick of it as well but I'm a sad little future secretary/receptionist to be so I'm surrounded by other women in every single class. I don't like men but it's nice to have someone consider you cute for once since there's not another lesbian that isn't an early college teen anywhere in sight.

>>9232629
Eyyy fellow lesbian! This is exactly how I feel. I just want to be flattered and adored for once even if it's from awkward guys because in daily life I'm just another gal in a room full of straight and/or married gals learning to use Microsoft Office.

>>9232638
>>9232645
>>9232629
why are we all gay

i know that /cgl/ being full of lesbians is a meme, but i didn't expect us all to flock together on this day

>>9232656
The cgl census said that like 60% of gulls are lesbians or bi. Its hella gay in here.

>>9232656
it's not a meme

it's reality

>>9232656
You quoted me twice but we're still numerous on /cgl/ it seems. At this rate we'll have to start a club.

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Which SS should I choose for a dress on mercari? I'm scared since I heard some don't want to mark down the value/put it as gift/... and custom taxes in my country are fucking hell

>>9232656
>Tfw a girl in your comm who is openly bi gives you a huge hug for no reason and you are closeted bi

Glad to see I'm not the only massive faggot in the general today

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>>9232656
Nah man it's actually legit.
Am a frilly lesbian myself. Girls are just too hot.

>>9232744
Oh anon i feel you, last meet one girl actually held my hand under the table. My kokoro went doki doki and she's so tall hng my weakness.

>>9232466
There are a lot of Chinese lolitas that are visiting or living inJapan. I've seen China and Korea brand on secondhand sites. Also some Chinese brand are buying ad space in Kera/GLB

>>9232235
It's a dress designed for the Chinese customer base who just want to show off their money. Baby is trying to see how ugly they can make shit and still have China buy

>>9232527
It might not even be dye fading, but makeup/skin rubbing on the fabric and leaving residue. I know I've had that on a few pieces and a good wash can take away 99% of it.

>>9232686
I always use Japonica but I've heard FromJapan is good too

>>9232503
>>9232581
This is the quality content I come here for.

>>9232471
I believe that you, much like the anon who did the dump, may not have actually seen many Japanese girls in real life before.

This isn't a bad thing; they're called a 'minority' in the US for a reason, but don't say stupid shit.

>>9232872
I wasn't surprised that they were ugly when I was dumping the pics, but you rarely see so many ugly girls from the ever glorious Nippon wearing lolita. The novelty was enjoyable.

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>>9232656
>tfw no tall ouji gf

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>>9232878
>tfw no take-charge shorter lolita gf to dress me and drag me around
I love ouji but I can't coord worth shit.

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>>9232637
Translated another Otasa no Hime thing if anyone is interested.
>Stiff ribbon
>Half sidetail
>Dark hair
>Dead eyes
>Choker
>Moe sleeve (where it's too long)
>Annoyingy pink
>Bunny (calls it Usagi-SAN etc)
>Frilly
>Checked fril skirt
>No-shame garter
>Black OTKs
>Cutesy shoes

>>9232883
This made my heart hurt. All I want in life is to have the ouji gf that lets me help her coord.

>>9232883
How tall are you, anon?

>>9232656
I, too am the gay
I mean come on, it's hard to not be a little gay when girls smell like roses and guys commonly smell like Parmesan cheese

>>9232937
that basic as hell kawaii look

this was me in highschool

but now the dark hair and dead eyes are accompanied with frills instead of shameless garters

>>9232823
is this a meme or is /cgl/ actually racist towards the Chinese

what the hell is going on

>>9232954
No cgl just knows Chinese culture is fucked up and Chinese people love tacky, Vegas-y shit

>>9232954
I don't think their post was racist? There is definitely a group of superrich Chinese girls who amass huge quantities of brand just to show how wealthy they are.

>>9232957
to each their own, i guess

>>9232958
sorry, i guess this post >>9228758 was more questionable and i treated the other as an add-on

still comes off as weird to me but i can't deny that many people would want to flaunt their cash if they had it

>>9232962
The fuerdai are definitely a thing lol.

>>9232941
If you find one, don't let her go! I'm the lonest of lones here in my tiny town.

>>9232947
5'7" but I walk like a pro in heels/platforms so between that and 6' with my highest shoes.

>>9232954
Within the last couple years, the main customer base of Japanese brands has shifted from Japan to China. The economy has been really good in China, leading to previously low-class families coming into large amounts of money, who then visit other countries but they have low-class manners and piss off the places they visit.
A good amount of mainland Chinese girls (not all) who are into lolita also have an excess of money to spend and will then buy disgusting amounts of brand regardless of the price or design. So since China has so much money flowing into the lolita market in Japan, the brands are catering more to what does well in China instead of Japan. People are bitter about that.

I'll be honest, I'm American and I've been in the lolita community for close to 10 years and I'm a little bitter myself that these new lolitas in China get so much power over the brands. But money talks, and ultimately as long as the brands can stay in business, I'll be happy.

>>9232970
>6' in heels
anon.... please tell me you're in chicago

>>9232970
How's 5'3 if I only wear short heels?

>>9232976
oh fuck

i knew about the wealthy youth thing but i didn't realize that so many new money Chinese girls got into lolita

i'm not bitter though since it's not like brands are going to be turning out curtain dresses and only curtain dresses

as someone who recently came into cash after a lot of struggling, i get where the urge comes from. but definitely not to that extent

it makes a little bit more sense now, thanks

>>9232235
>Wasn't lolita originally based off Rococo and Victorian designs anyway?

Typical noob thinking. They were one of the many many inspirations.

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>>9232980
Sorry, I'm a few states away but same coast!

>>9232982
A-Anon, it wouldn't matter! Even just an inch shorter is enough for me.


>tfw gave up on taller more masculine girls ages ago
I've embraced the Haruka Tenoh lifestyle.Good thing Michiru was the one in charge.

>>9228755
It's OTT and it's frufru and gross and I love every bit of it.

>>9232581
>Otome-kei is essentially lolita toned down enough to be appealing to guys.

Yeah, no.

>>9233003
this

while the info that OP has been providing is interesting, none of the "otaku club princesses" diagrams have been shown wearing anything that looks remotely otome

wearers of lolita/otome/whatever jfash generally are in it for themselves and i hate that some guys think it's for them

nothing against OP whose gender i don't even know, it's just that this is such a common misconception

>>9232483
>Somone
>SOMONE
Triggered.

>>9232581
OPif you're still here (yes, i'm autism)
>>9216248 is what we call otome

>>9233009
ZR fits the description better, and the appeal to guys. ZR is basically a fetish.

>>9232992
>tfw there's hope for the gf then
Maybe some day our paths will cross

Honestly I like the fact that cgl is the island of lesbos. It makes coping with my comm being mostly straight despite being one of the biggest gay friendly states a bit easier.

>>9232976
Do you think this will cause a split in the fashion? Like the style that the Chinese style will evolve on a different path from Western style. I have the feeling that a segment of western lolita will go the opposite direction toward minimalist lolita.

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Ready for more lies from an ex-lolcow?

>>9232976
I'm glad that the brands are surviving although it seems like Moitie, VM, and MM have kinda lost out compared to AP, Baby and JetJ. It figures though because MM, Moitie and VM are known for mostly understated designs and not really prints or OTT, so I can't see the Chinese being interested in them.

>>9233076
she's hot though

>>9230707
my image of her has always been punk rock, black tears, voicing Nana and shit. this is sooooo weird for me. I love it though. it's not too cutesy of a coord, she makes it look kind of flirty and elegant, instead of just sweet and angelic, like Misako and the other cute model who does mostly IW and Meta (no idea of her name, the sweetly meek and always blushy one)

>>9232454
Freaking love the girl rocking that candy shower set though. even though she seems to be coording it with pink...which isn't in the print whatsoever. any Meta lover is alright with me

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Can anyone ID the dress in the background of this photo? The photo is from a Cracked article about small conventions but I was instantly taken by that dress.

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>>9233003
>>9233009
Sorry gulls, I did not mean to insinuate that western jfash wearers were trying to appeal to guys. I can understand the frustration. I was referring to Japanese girls in my post. And by "toned down enough for guys", I mean "toned down enough to be generally societally acceptable". Forgive me for I was drunkposting in the early morning.

Many Japanese men are obsessed with the idea of purity and innocence, and some girls take advantage of this by dressing overly cute using brands considered otome. These girls are referred to as 清楚系ビッチ which means more or less "neat/tidy-kei slut". Pic related.

That's only one use for those brands though, the other would be a more casual/cheaper lolita style, which aligns more with what the west considers to be otome-kei. I think the west should stop calling it otome-kei and just call it casual lolita. All the coord pics posted in >>9216248 look like lolita to me. I'm guessing the western lolita/otome split came as a result of people being anal about petticoats and stuff.

I think I conflated my ideas of what the west considers otome-kei with some related but not quite the same Japanese phenomena, and ruffled some feathers in the process. I apologize. Consider the otome-kei I was referring to as the Japanese amalgamation of cutesy fashion, not the western concept of casual lolita. I think lolita and otome-kei are wonderful and I don't mean to discourage anyone who likes them. I probably should have made a new thread about "how j-fash is seen in Japan" or something instead of derailing this one. I'll stop now <3

>>9233239
sorry if my post came off harsh. we like you, facts-anon. making your own thread wouldn't be a bad idea, especially if you translate these breakdown images and stuff. i think enough of us are interested.

>>9233239
I agree with anon below, please continue

>>9233102
It's Rococo Story by Souffle Song

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>>9233326
I don't think it is, the back doesn't look right.

http://www.soufflesong.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=151&product_id=99

>>9233076
>ex-lolcow
Just stop. I enjoy hearing her talk about the fashion and the LJ days.

>>9233330
Oops. My bad, the print looked similar.

>>9232744
>>9232776
This happened to me recently and I almost passed out. Yet another reason to love lolita fashion I guess.

>>9233336
It certainly does, it took me some staring and squinting before I realised that the cut of the back of the dress was different.

>>9232991

Well, yeah, but shouldn't it be okay if some of the dresses reflect one of the inspirations more closely than others? Like another anon pointed out, it's not like brands are switching over to exclusively making curtain dresses.

>>9233102
Taobao

>>9233060

I doubt it, see >>9232199

Non-Chinese are capable of liking gaudy tacky shit on their own, the rise of OTT lolita isn't due to the Chinese taking over tumblr or facebook. What I think will happen is that OTT lolita will rule for a bit because it seems to be well-liked by both Chinese and western lolitas (despite cgl shitting on OTT all the time it gets more notes and usually trends better than toned down coords).

At least most of the brands have their heads screwed on straight and most are still making the odd simple dress or two.

>>9233239
>western lolita/otome split came as a result of people being anal about petticoats and stuff

Actually, I'd say the split came about because at least from 2008-2013 otome kei was literally a completely different fashion from lolita. We aren't just talking flared dresses that actually cannot accommodate a petticoat, whether you wanted to wear one or not, we're also talking pants, shorts, pencil skirts, long skirts, narrow miniskirts -- everything was so completely outside of lolita fashion, otome-kei was more like a cutesy H&M than lolita. The two fashions only recently started coming back together and crossing over recently when the whole "soft lolita" movement became popular, hence the images you see in the current otome thread looks like "casual lolita" now.

I'd say where's it's confusing is in a prior statement you write about
>Otome-kei is essentially lolita toned down enough to be appealing to guys
and then in this one
>conflated ... what the west considers otome-kei with some related but not quite the same Japanese phenomena

I actually think the second definition is closer to what otome is, or at least was in 2010, which you apologised for (?), and cgl is having issues with otome being seen as "casual/toned down lolita" actually. Not the other way around.

Either way, would really love a whole thread for discussing the topic of how j-fash is seen in Japan. If you don't like cgl being nitpicky over your statements you can just dump images and links like what you've been doing, and let cgl anons figure out what is what by themselves.

>>9233076
Lol probs going to claim she gave it to him personally

>>9233076

Should I know who this person is?

>>9233357
Thank you, this makes a lot of sense. I thought I was going crazy when I opened the otome-kei thread. I'll translate these pics and more and dump them in a new thread.

>>9233083
Besides AP and Baby are much more commercial. If they can't be the trend, they will follow the trend. Whereas brands like Moitie and VM just keep doing their own thing regardless if people like it or not.

>>9233239
I agree with you that brands like ETC and JM are basically seen as casual lolita in Japan but people on this board will defend otome kei as a completely seperate fashion from lolita. Some people will even get pissy if you coord ETC in a lolita way and call it a lolita coord.

>>9233379
>I agree with you..

I think the point here is that anon isn't voicing an opinion - They're talking in objective fact.

Otome-kei is a Western style and idea, which is associated with specific brands.
Anon is just talking about the Japanese style and idea with which those same brands are associated, because the Japanese have little to no concept of the Western Otome-kei.

>>9233357
>pants, shorts, pencil skirts, long skirts, narrow miniskirts
The main/popular otome kei brands, according to cgl, are JM, ETC and LG and they rarely release these. I've never seen it from LG, and from ETC a very long time ago. JM would usually release it under DLS but rarely too.

>recently when the whole "soft lolita" movement became popular
Soft lolita is not popular or even known in Japan, except maybe by some Misako fans, but even she hardly tags with soft lolita. People often use the casual lolita or lolita tag for the type of coords posted in the otome kei thread.

>>9233382
>Otome-kei is a Western style and idea
This should be common knowledge here. But I'm not from the West and I'm just salty that people repost my casual lolita or normie coords as otome kei.

>>9233239
>All the coord pics posted in >>9216248 → look like lolita to me

You should just accept that you're wrong and stop talking.

>>9233382
I think there are two things going on. one, is that the anon originally associated otome with an old concept that used to exist in the west and is based off brands like axes femme, etc. then they came back and said what we /now/ call otome is seen as casual lolita, and is more the territory of JM, ETC, etc

this makes sense, since if you search wear.jp for axes femme you find nothing that's "otome" in our sense, but find plenty of "otome" coords under JM.

I don't know when or how otome Kei came about, but I'm 100% behind current "otome" being considered casual lolita. the only reason it's not, I'm sure, is because the western community can be really nitpicky and rule obsessed and the thought of lolita not having petticoats and pantone-matched colors gives people hives. "otome" being lolita breaks down those rules and proves that you can make good lolita coords without them.

I'd love Japan anon to elaborate, though

>>9233379
ETC and JM don't call themselves lolita brands and have clearly said that they are not.

Are there any nice black lace tights in UK stores right now? I'm asking here because I live put way back in the countryside and it's a lot for me to travel to the nearest city for a fruitless journey.

>>9233396
Their reason is the negative associations with the word lolita, but what is stopping them from calling themselves otome brands?

>>9233413
Because 'otome' isn't a style isn't Japan, neither they nor their customers would know what it means.

As far as they're concerned it's just a gneral cute fashion.

>>9233413
No, it's simply because they're not lolita brands, as hard as that is for you to comprehend.

>>9233396
You mean based on something someone said years ago, JM has said that they are not a lolita brand. The fact is that they have a similar aesthetic and influences as lolita brands, and JM was popular with lolita's before they were even called lolita's. I mean JM/ETC/LG don't look more different from AP than Moitie, JetJ or Excentrique. They may not want to be associated with lolita, because of the bad image of malice mizer fans, loli con's or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that the general population of Japan groups them together with lolita fashion. We didn't choose this name either, maybe if it was called alice kei or something else, brands like ETC would have embraced it?

Just accept that cgl gave a weeby name to the aesthetic of a small group of brands and enjoy it.

>>9233419
did you even read this thread?

>>9233421
but if muh fashion isnt defined in glorious nipon the way I define it, what's going to validate me?

>>9233396
>>9233421
Wasn't that because of Tsutomu Miyazaki, the "Lollita Complex" serial killer? Maybe many lolitas in the 1990's either didn't care or appreciated the edgelord factor, but brands like ETC and JM understandably didn't and possibly still don't want to be associated with that shit. It's not about the style, it's about the nasty associations with the word lolita.

>>9233407
The winter stuff is coming in at the moment in most stores. So there are a few nice lace tights in the big stores right now. If you can find one near you, you can try Calzedonia but they can be very hit or miss.

>>9233426
Yes, did you? Have you ever even looked at lolita?

>>9233421
>>9233427
You are so dense. Gothic and sweet brands are obviously different but they they the same defining lolita features that otome brands don't have. So many noobs on cgl.

First time ordering with Japonica and i don't really understand despite reading their stuff. How do I avoid custom taxes with them? Do i ask them in the first note? How much do I deposit? Just the price of the dress? I have absolutely no idea.
I'm so nervous when I use a new thing holy fuck.

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>>9233432
please, I implore you: tell me which fashion this is and why.

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>>9233437
To anon, who is Western, this would be called 'otome'.

To Japanese communities, it would be lolita - Because their 'rules' for lolita are different and they do not have 'otome.'


I have no idea why people are arguing about this or what point either side is trying to get accross? It doesn't matter to any of us because none of us are Japanese..

>>9233437
>>9233441
There are so many resources about the differences that I don't want to go over and over it. Look at the archive to educate yourself. And no, they're not lolita in Japan. They're not even in the bible. At most, some people like Misako call it "soft lolita".

>>9233443
Look, anon, you're obviously getting pretty worked up about this. Why don't you just go ask 2chan?

>>9233393
I regret mentioning otome-kei, and yes I mistook it for what I thought was called otome-kei (axes etc). I was curious what Japanese girls call it so here's a translation from Y!A.

Q: What's the difference between "casual lolita" and "soft lolita"?

Casual lolita has existed as a genre for a while, but lately Misako Aoki has coined the phrase "soft lolita".

Casual lolita was originally, as the name implies, "lolita downplayed to be casual", replacing blouses with cardigans and using simple ribbon combs instead of elaborate headdresses, using casual items like engineer boots or lolita sneakers.

Hoodies, T-shirts, A-line one-piece dresses, cut & sewn one pieces, salopettes, low-waist miniskirts, culotte skirts (TL note: fake skirt pants, idk how to translate this) put out by lolita brands are considered to be casual lolita items.

Brands like MILK, Emily Temple Cute, and Jane Marple, that are very girly and have a strong lolita-esque style were once considered to be part of "casual lolita". Even though they were unlike extremely lolita brands such as Baby and AP, they were still considered to be "roughly lolita".

However, since a few years ago, more and more lolita-like brands have appeared and "lolita-esque fashion" has steadily penetrated the market, people have begun referring to them as "soft lolita" or "neo-lolita". Personally, I think "casual lolita" refers to fashion that's more lolita, whereas "soft lolita" includes both casual lolita items and lolita-like girly fashion items.
In soft lolita, one would never wear a poofy petticoat, but in casual lolita a well defined poof and cardigan also works.

Casual lolita is "casual, but still lolita".
A brand like Secret Honey or Ank Rogue may be called "soft lolita" or "neo-lolita", but it would not be called "casual lolita", unlike brands such as MILK or ETC who were involved with the establishment of lolita. However, if you mix these items with a true lolita brand it would become "casual lolita".

>>9233435
Are you using their shopping cart? If you are, you'll be able to pay the exact amount if the item is buy it now, or your maximum bid if it's an auction. Shipping within Japan, any extra taxes, service fees, and shipping to you will add up and be included in your final invoice which you will pay for once you decide to finish your order and have it shipped to you.
As for avoiding custom fees and taxes, I'm not sure if Japonica can mark down your package but I suppose it won't hurt to ask. Keep in mind that they ship any orders valued over 6000 yen via EMS.
Don't be nervous, anon, Japonica is one of the easiest shopping services to use and you'll get used to it soon enough.

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>>9233357
>>9233366
See, I think Japan anon is spot on for what Otome-kei should be. I'm big into everyday Japan street style and I was pretty baffled when I saw an Otome-kei topic here and it looked nothing like the clothes I associated with Otome.
Western Otome-kei to me is definitely just toned down lolita. Everywhere I've looked regarding it it's just said "Weeeell otome and casual lolita are super alike but there's just a small difference between them but really that difference is complicated because it's easy to mistake Otome-kei for casual lolita a lot."

Well then what's the point of calling it something else entirely if it's that similar to casual lolita? Especially when the West is the one who coined that term for it in the beginning while Japan itself has a completely different view on what Otome is.

It's made more confusing for the fact that there's not a single topic on /cgl/ for actual Otome fashion in the Japanese sense. They're Larme and Gyaru (in the new sense, not the Black Diamon style) and that's about as close as it gets and neither one of those is the type of fashion that Japanese Otome is which is surprising because I know that fashion style is right up /cgl/'s alley.

>>9233464
Thanks anon dude. The dress I plan to get is 9000yen so i'm prolly gonna contact them to ask if they would accept doing so. Living in Belgium is suffering I once got 40 bucks worth of custom taxes for a 100$ dress.
Maybe I should just go for Buyee.

>>9233055
One day, anon. Especially if you go to any of the bigger East Coast cons.

And seriously, yeah. It's really nice to find out that /cgl/ is full of salty Sapphos when you haven't got anyone like that around you.

>>9233482
You can try ZenMarket as well, they can ship your order via airmail and charge 300 yen per item regardless of value.

>>9233444
Lol, classic response of someone who knows they're wrong so are trying to deflect. Not sure why you are so stubborn about being a noob.

>>9233467
>Everywhere I've looked regarding it it's just said "Weeeell otome and casual lolita are super alike but there's just a small difference between them but really that difference is complicated because it's easy to mistake Otome-kei for casual lolita a lot."

And people mistake ita garbage as legit all the time too. Doesn't make them right.

>>9233497
If the only difference between Western Otome and Casual Lolita is "These brands don't call themselves lolita so wearing them is an entirely different fashion that just happens to look exactly like Casual Lolita" then it's not worth being a separate fashion.

Hell, like another anon said up above Otome didn't even start out with how it's labeled now. The original Otome fashion was what the Japanese consider Otome now. Somewhere along the way the Western community just decided "Nah, this is what we'll consider Otome now." so Japanese Otome is now nameless to the Western community.

If I google Otome now it's just casual lolita aesthetic and an outdated definition that says it's "girly or maidenly style" which is the Japanese definition.
If I want to see pictures of the Japanese style, I have to google shit like "cute Japan style" to get it.

>>9233441
>no idea why people are arguing about this or what point either side is trying to get accross

I'm curious about this myself.

Mostly because the past decade or so I've been told repeatedly that otome is not lolita, and sometimes told this in the tone of some girls who think lolita is childish and flamboyant, and the otome girls are apparently offended anyones dares to lump them in with lolita or think they're trying to do toned down lolita. Having the otome brands themselves say they're not a lolita brand, their shops being on different floors from other lolita brands, and they don't bother with the GLB is more confirmation that they want to do their own style and don't want to be lumped in with the other lolita brands. It's ok, I can respect that sweet lolita isn't for everyone.

But the complete 180 reversal on this attitude is pretty surreal. Why do the otome girls suddenly want to be lolitas now after they've snubbed lolita for so long? On top of AP releases sucking hard and Baby puttting out curtain dresses this year, this has to be my weirdest year in lolita, ever.

>>9233467
you should make a thread and dump examples. I've always been interested in this style but it's a pain to find coords for inspiration since we don't have a western term.

call it "otasa-no-hime" if you'd like. it's cute and aparently appropriate, if a little derogatory.

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>>9233536
>call it "otasa-no-hime"
Hell, it's better than calling it "generic cute Japan style" or "neat/tidy-kei slutty"

Japan-Anon, if you'd like could you give us some more information on the style when I make the new topic?

>>9233467
I'm definetely interested in a thread on this

>>9233557
>>9233536
Topic made! I was worried I wouldn't find a lot of examples but they're surprisingly easy to spot once I got started.
>>>9233559

>>9233434
Did you not understand my comment or follow the thread? I'm not talking about what we consider lolita brands or not, I'm talking about how normie japanese people view it. With a lot of street/alt fashions it's normie people who name it and not the people wearing it or the brands.

I bought a dress off LM two weeks ago and never received an invoice. Messaged the seller after a week & waited. No response. I left them negative feedback today for never contacting me/not responding. And of course, a few hours later I FINALLY get a message from the seller saying they need my Paypal email. (Shouldn't they already have it? Every other seller I bought from had no problem finding it.)

Anyway, I'm no longer interested in doing business with this person because of their lack of communication but I'm afraid of them leaving me negative feedback. Thoughts?

>>9233509
Except that is not it. I'm not going to be a spoonfeeder and tell people over and over again. If you had actually read the thread you'd know that there are lots of informative posts in the archive.

>>9233509
>Hell, like another anon said up above Otome didn't even start out with how it's labeled now

No shit, all fashions change over time.

>
If I google Otome now it's just casual lolita aesthetic

Except you don't know what you're talking about and thus your opinion is invalid.

>>9234356

I'd message a LM mod and ask whether, in the event of her leaving retaliatory feedback, it can be removed.

Could be that she never received the messages, but for it to happen twice, and for her to get back so quickly after you left negative feedback is suspicious. I wouldn't deal with them personally.

>>9234636
Not that anon but I have read several guides on otome kei and I love otome kei threads, but it really looks just like casual and soft lolita in Japan. The only things about it that are not typically lolita are playing with colours, mini skirts and shorts, but those coords are never posted. Most people in the otome kei thread accept that it's not a style in Japan, why are you being so anal about it?

>>9232629
>Boys sure are strange.
I don't know if I seem unapproachable, but I very rarely get complimented by men unless I'm walking alone. I always get complimented by women, though. I had a girl at work yesterday tell me I was gorgeous, which was really sweet. Girls complimenting girls always makes me happy.

>>9233492
Oh i didn't know about this once, thank you very much!