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Gentlemen, how do we save Fate?

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Thread replies: 555
Thread images: 132

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Gentlemen, how do we save Fate?
>>
We go back in time and kill the Mobage Timeline
>>
>>160914002
Remove. Fucking. Sieg.

Burn all drawings of him. Retcon him out of Apo. Have the person who conceptualized him publicly horsewhipped.
>>
>>160914052
At least Sieg is confined to one work for now. Nero is slowly infesting all of Fate.
>>
>>160914002
With more Mordred
>>
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>>160914002
Have every episode narrated by Kotomine Kirei.
>>
>>160914034
would have been okay with 3D modes for characters and killing of aniplex jews
>>
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>>160914002
>things that did not happen
>>
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>>160914002
Full yuri saves everything.
>>
Make an actual battle royal story without all the convoluted bullshit that makes the story way longer and boring than it has to be.

Or a good game.
>>
Nero
>>
>>160914340
Cute tenga
>>
Female mc desu.
>>
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>>
Better gacha rates.
>>
You don't. It's too bloated.

You just need to stop making it, and make new things.
Nasu needs to get over Mahotsukai no Yoru.
>>
Camelot anime, natch
>>
>>160914002
Shaft
>>
Just stick with VNs. Get rid of everything else.
>>
>>160914362
paizuri from Nero
>>
>>160914408
Agree. Have Ufo do a Saber route with original story by Urobuchi as a sequel to Zero, and then Nips need to let it die
>>
Apocrypha and Strange Fake VN get rid of Extella
>>
>>160914002
Have Urobochi interred at a North Korean death camp. Declare Zero non-canon. Have Nasu and Takeuchi rewrite it.

Zero was objectively where the series started going to shit.
>>
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>>160914389
Slut
>>
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>>160914002
Never ever
>>
>save fate
>while that piece of shit fgo continues to flourish while literally bullshitting everything just for the sake of waifus/husbandos
its too late
>>
>>160914002
That's a cute image. Do those two ever meet in any game/novel/series/whatever?
Also do Jeanne and Gilles ever meet?
>>
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>>
stop fgo
>>
>>160914002
Remove Saber, all clones, just delete the entire model/concept/whatever of Arturia out of Takeuchi's mind
Remove Astolfo
Remove Sieg

Focus more on Tsukihime
>>
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>Saber refuses to acknowledge her own child because she doesn't want an incompetent leader having a claim to the throne
I get her logic, but yeesh, Mordred has a right to be pissed here.
>>
>>160914002
Wait for Narita to finish Strange Fake.
>>
>>160914002
Go all the way back to knk and start from there. Someone also kill Urobuchi just to ensure.
>>
>>160914232
>even the horse is a Saberface
>>
>>160914555
>So, Takeuchi, any thoughts on where to start the Tsukihime remake?
>No Nasu, I'm thinking about how you should FUCK ME
>...
>...
>We ensnare each other like two mollusks, the tentacles of benthic emotions undulating in our ears like the song of a giant squid...
>>
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>>160914619
All life will become Saber. Resistance is futile.
>>
>>160914520
Only a joke beach event, and the Guda Guda sound dramas, either way the results are always Mordred's being a massive Saberfag, or a massive tsundere Saberfag, and Saber giving her the cold shoulder, or punishing her when she does stupid things, like steal her boat and turn it into a surfboard, or damage her drawbridge
>>
>>160914520
>Do those two ever meet
Camelot
>Jeanne and Gilles ever meet?
Orleans
>>
>>160914520
Why are you here, and why are you posting that pic if, you know, you don't know anything about Fate?
>>
>>160914520
>Modred meets Fuyuki-Arturia
>no longer has to keep up the 'asshole king' routine
>wacky boyfriend-hijinx and COOKING
I think she would die from the shock.
>>
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>>160914690
But then Shirou would cook for her and she would become part of his harem.
Diarmuid's love-spot has nothing on COOKING.
>>
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Why do all the servants in Apocrypha have such stupid backstories?
>>
>>160914766
because Apocrypha is stuped
>>
>>160914766
In case you haven't figured it out already, Apocrypha was a mistake
>>
>>160914723
>implying Mordred wouldn't call Shirou Mother
>>
>>160914766
They had to cut out a few parts - by which I mean literally everything - to make more room for DRAGON DICK EXDEE
>>
>>160914788
Mordred and Astolfo are good.

Other then that, yeah.
>>
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>>160914002
>literally Mordred
>>
>>160914812
But she has a mother. She just hates her because she thinks she was a disgusting whore. She is correct.
>>
>>160914927
Stepmother OK.
>>
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>>160914340
>>160914447

I want to motorboat those puppies
>>
Isn't the whole fate lore that King Arthur is a girl? So why in Apocrypha do they call him a guy and Mord his son?

Also Fate would be 10x better if every servants backstory in everything was explained like in Fate Zero.
>>
>>160915083
>explained like in Fate Zero.
They did that to Zero to spoonfeed people like you. You can figure almost everything without them telling you, both in the Deen anime and VN (early on).
>>
>>160915083
>Isn't the whole fate lore that King Arthur is a girl? So why in Apocrypha do they call him a guy and Mord his son?
I can understand the people of the present doing since they're males in the legend but Mordred refering to herself as a boy and Arthur as her father is fucking stupid.
>>
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>>160915131
If you'd ever had friends, you'd know that getting away from an obsolete nickname is rather hard.
>>
You just let Shaft, Nasu and Nero do their thing
>>
Jeanne and Marie sittin' in a tree
>>
>>160915328
Marie is everything that's wrong about Orleans
>>
>>160914034

Es El Kongrooooooooo
>>
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>mfw I finally realise that Kiritsugu's treatment of Saber is exactly how Saber treated Mordred.

That karma.
>>
>>160914389
french whore
>>
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>>160914052
Remove sieg add more of cutest saber in his place
>>
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Animate Strange Fake. With Nero instead of Richard.
>>
>>160915328
>Jeanne and her Alter are top tier waifu bait
>Both are shipped with women
Sasuga nips
>>
The characters are next-level bad for the series. Literally copy/pasta quality. The main character can be effectively condensed into "Pity Me" bait.

Even worse is that the terrible character that nobody likes, aka the Mary Sue that is "Shirou", has returned in a horrible way. I can only imagine the franchise's creator desperately trying to make Shirou a likable character by following the worst examples.

Every other "Fate" anime has done what this does, except better. The biggest difference is that the other shows had other things that made them entertaining:

-The Original Fate/Stay Night was flat bad outside of the interesting premise. Killing one target many times times in 1 slashing attack still causes post-traumatic-stress-disorder flashbacks.

-The Unlimited Bladeworks remake had the production value. But I suppose it also setup Shirou to become an edgelord like Kirito... except with terrible justification and logic behind it rather than just being an edgy twat.

-Fate/Zero was a mature show in most aspects, focusing around psychological aspects and a cast of mostly adults. This was also probably the best series for character development since it never really "felt" like there was a specific main character and frequently followed different people to get different perspectives. It also wasn't "waifu/best girl" baiting with teenagers having borderline romantic relationships with the souls of ancient heroes that have been warped, rewritten, and/or genderbent.
>>
>>160914002
More of Jacks ass.
>>
>>160914002
Remove Sieg and Shirou and Fate easily becomes best show on them market
>>
>>160914832
take that back , Jack and Siegfried are also decent.
>>
>>160914052
you fucking anti-Sieg faggots are the stupidest

you fucking all started with Zero and think Fate is a series about despair and everyone losing and other stupid bullshit and when Apocrypha comes out and has a shitton of great characters with as much focus on sieg, jeanne, and atolfo as there was on Kerry, Iri, and Saber in Zero and Shirou, Saber, Rin, and Sakura in Stay Night

fucking retards apocrypha is really good. You also lie to people saying Sieg and Jeanne become the entire focus when they've clearly been the main character neutral party and most everyone else gets enough relevant screentime and characterization


fuck you
>>
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>what if we took a serious VN...
>then, what if we took some random, unimportant side character
>and then, what if we made her, and all her irrelevant friends lesbians?
>prisma illya

a complete insult to the Fate franchise.
>>
>>160914002
We need more bullshit powr levels like Strange Fake
>>
>>160915983
>a serious VN...
What, Fate/Stay Night?
Ahahaha
>>
>>160915983
>he hasn't read Primsa Illya

it literally turns into the greatest shirou focused manga ever made
>>
>>160914555
VN Saber is good though. It's just the fact that she has a shit ton of clones that's retarded. All it does is cheapen the appeal of actual Saber, I don't know what they were thinking with all the samefaces honestly.
>>
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>>160915883
This guy knows what up.
>>
>>160915943
Is this pasta? It looks like pasta.
>>
Somewhere along the line, Fate turned into Nasu's exploration of the naive ideal that constitutes a "hero" that is F/SN, and by extension F/Z, to focusing solely on the framing device of the series, whilst ignoring the core theme that made it so strong in the first place.

Fate is not a story about the Holy Grail War. It's a story about what being a "hero" gets you. It's about what it takes to be a hero, it's about what being a hero means to the characters. It's about how being a hero might not be that good an ideal after all. and it's also about accepting that fact. Whether or not you want to ignore it and soldier on, accept it, but strive for it anyways,or undestand that it is an impossible thing to strive to, and focus on people you care about instead.
>>
>>160916040
It's fucking lasagna, is what it is
>>
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Does anyone have a webm of saber chasing the cat from ep6? I loved that shit.
>>
>>160916083
I feel he still held onto that ideal for a while. Take Fate/EXTRA for instance. None of the playable Servants are orthodox "heroes". Nero, Tamamo, Emiya, Gilgamesh. All of them are pretty far from the ideal of a "hero".
>>
>>160914002
swap every character's gender
>>
>>160916083
Yeah this pretty much sums it up.
>>
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>>160916158
>swap every character's gender
>majority of characters have correct gender now
>>
>>160916083
The franchise is nothing all about "hero". I bet you started off with Zero, that's why you're so stupid. You don't know anything about this shit yet.
>>
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>>160916139
Mordred is a cutie!!!
>>
>>160916278
>anon makes poignant and coherent references to the three VN routes
>"S-secondary!"

Siegfags truly are retarded.
>>
Release another game in the Extraverse, this time with even more ridiculous designs than Melt and Lip.
>>
>>160914002
Ignore all the spinoffs like I do. Fate is still fine for me.
>>
>>160916259
To be honest, I was literally amazed Vlad Tepes didn't become a slutty loli.
>>
>>160916343
>this time with even more ridiculous designs than Melt and Lip.
You mean like Saber Venus?
>>
>>160916343
Extella 2 is already confirmed. Get hype.
>>
>>160916083
Aside from Shirou's overall arc in stay night it was never about being a hero, most of the characters are actually villains, the story has always centered on the grail and how far people will go and what they will give up to get it
>>
>>160916037
This is the only reason I watch this shit show.
>>
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>>160914002
VR Porn games.
>>
>>160915743
Nice copy-pasta
>>
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>>160916284
How can someone as boring as artoria have such a cute daughter
>>
>>160914455
>Saber route
>By Uro

Ahahahahahahahahahaha
>>
>>160915743
Wew.

Fuck off MALfag
>>
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>>160915899
>Remove Shirou
Fix your shit taste, senpai.
>>
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How could anyone rebel against this face?
>>
>>160915083
Saber being King Arthur (and why is King Arthur a female in this timeline) is the ongoing mystery of Fate route. You don't know who she is until she unveil Excalibur in the roof top to stop Rider's Pegasus. Fate/Zero, being a prequel, info dump you at the start to catch the people who hasn't read the VN since 2004/2005 up to speed.
>>
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>>160916284
Thank you so much! So awesome!
>>
>>160916284
how do I get autistic gf?
>>
>>160916713
>literally anything by Urobutcher
This idiot literally writes like he banged his head and mentally regressed to being an edgy goth 16-year old blogging about how his parents don't understand him.
>>
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Revolutionary idea: Have historical servants act 'something' like their historical basis once in a while.
>>
>>160915083
It's because Saber is indeed Mordred's father, because Merlin had given her a cock to fuck Gwynevere with when Mordred was conceived. Morgan le Fay, Arturia's sister, was the mother and Arturia, with a penis, was the father (though Arturia had no idea any of this had happened at the time because Morgan had snuck into her bedroom while she was asleep.

Mordred calls herself a guy because Arturia pretends to be a guy, and Mordred idealizes Arturia to a ridiculous degree, to the point of going somewhat insane when Arturia refused to acknowledge her when she revealed herself.
>>
>>160917305
Vlad and maybe Chiron (though he's not really 'historical') are more or less handled accurately.

Of course, both of them have had 90% of their story involvement cannibalized for Sieg. Fucking Sieg.
>>
>>160915665
But then we wouldn't get Richard being so chuuni he turns everything into Excalibur, and that would be terrible.

Besides, Nero's already getting Extella Zero.
>>
>>160914002
1) Remove Sieg.
2) Remove Sieg.
3) Remove Sieg.

This abomination is literally the anime Wesley Crusher.
>>
>>160917405
>20 more episodes of Sieg
>>
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>>160917437
>tfw
>>
>>160917228
Uro's early works were great. That one equilibrium fanfic VN, Kikokugai and Phantom of Inferno were phenomenal
>>
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>>160914002
Still waiting for that Redman story NASU
where the fuck is it
I want to see his days as he lost it as a counter guardian and how he got the eternal smug
>>
Isn't Suzuka's 2nd NP qualifies as the most OP ability in Fateverse? rivalling Moon Cell's processing power means that she can counter any asspull Gil can throw (well, with the exception of Enkidu)
>>
>>160914002
Erase anything that isn't /Stay Night.
>>
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>>160914052
>>160914555
>>160915663
>>160915899
>>160916337
>>160917364
>>160917405
>>160917437
>>160917462

Our small and select group of dedicated shitters lead by aporager (who disagree with me must be a siegfag) is shitting on other Fate thread with the same shitposts and memes based on a obsessive raging hate boner by a fictional character.
>>
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Smile status
>>
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>>160918203
[X] not protected
[ ] protected
>>
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>>160916139
>>160918203
>>160915663
>>
>>160918202
>most people dislike Apo because it's shit
>most anime watchers are starting to dislike apo because it's gradually getting worse

This must clearly be a conspiracy and not at all a natural development of the situation.
>>
>>160914002
More Saber
>>
>>160918223
Mordred wants to be king but her mother won't let him
>>
>>160918444
But Mom wants him to be king, it's Dad who is the killjoy
>>
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>>160916858
>>
>>160914002
Turn FGO non-canon and make an actually good game with the amazing setting, written by a single author from beggining to end and without a bloated cast of shitty art styles where every character is a Servant.

Might also save the rest of Type-Moon, since they won't be stuck to a single cheap milking machine that makes attempts at anything different or without Servants irrelevant.
>>
>>160914408
Fucking this. Just end it, all the new entries are so geared towards secondaries for easy money with their Servant focus, while completely missing the point of FSN. Just let Nasu do what he does best instead of strapping him to nonstop Servant milking.
>>
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>>160914002
Make them high school sluts.
>>
>>160918756
>make series about diverse set of characters with unique motives instead of high school harem bait shit
>it becomes more popular
WOW
>>
Remove Servants, focus on the scheming wizard clan feuds instead
>>
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>>160916337
Reminder that you're an retard because the post doesn't even contradict the posts you're replying to?

What is the matter with Sieghitters in these threads? You don't even reply to actual Siegfags any more. You just come off as rambling incoherently and probably imagine insulting invisible fanboys.
>>
>>160914002
>>160914002
>Remove yuri
>Remove waifushit
>Remove yuri pandering
>Remove waifu pandering
>Stop transforming male historical figures into waifu shit for fanservice and fap material for autistic virgin
>Stop making mobage about "waifus".
>Stop calling women a ''man'' (and vice versa).
>>
>>160918912
I'd like to give you a proper response, but your post is incoherent and poorly written. So here's a (You).
>>
>>160918912
Perfect.
>>
>>160915665
>Picking the worst possible saber to replace Richard
>wanting to replace based Richie in the first place
>>
>>160915983
Prisma has too much plot for my taste. I need more /u/
>>
>People heralded Carnival Phantasm as the Great Work of Type Moon
>Get assblasted when they lean in that direction for all other content

Only have yourselves to blame.
>>
>>160915743
You really want to suck all those dicks?
>>
>>160919237
>a once in a decade celebration with beloved characters from all across Type-Moon getting together for stupid shit outside of their actually meaningful stories
>turning the next main project, spanning several years, into this, but with a billion new characters of variably shitty designs, Servant-only, a self-insert protag, and a half-baked main plot barely even written by Nasu

You're baiting. Carnival Phantasm worked on the back of self-contained, extremely memorable and iconic works.
>>
>>160918847
Yeah and it's fucking trash now, since in practice that "diverse cast with unique motives" has a laughably awful execution compared to the "high school harem shit" it takes after. Enjoy neo-Type-Moon.
>>
>>160918272
Point me to these "most", please. I came to laugh at them.
>>
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This is the only Empress-Regnant in the history of China, say something nice about her.
>>
>>160920179
F L A T
>>
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>>160918914
>Stop transforming male historical figures into waifu shit for fanservice and fap material for autistic virgin
>Stop calling women a ''man'' (and vice versa).
This needs to be undertaken urgently.
>>
Nobody actually likes sieg right? Like nobody honestly thinks he's a good or even likable character? If you do like him, I want to hear your reasoning why, just because I can't see how anyone is remotely attached to him.
>>
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Let Mata Hari get her wish
;_;
>>
>>160920630
i personally would Heil him
>>
>>160920630
I like him for his conviction and determination to save his fellow tube babies from a senseless, meaningless death.
>>
>>160920630
I don't like him, but he's cute, I guess.
>>
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People bitch about every damn anime as soon as it comes out. Holy fucken shit what happened to just being happy with what you have and enjoying it for what it is instead of what it isn't. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to please little fuckwits like you. You that cry when something isn't what YOU wanted or what YOU expected. db super. Re:creators. Fate. Gundam. Clockwork. Full metal. Berserk. AoT. Sword art online. Madoka. Pokemon. Sakura the fucking fap catcher. Bitch about it all nothings EVER good enough. FUCK YOU ALL. I come to 4chan for the art and to engage with people that actually enjoy anime.
>>
>>160914723
>Shirou being anything but the ultimate house husband.
>>
>>160916158
Does FemShinji still rape ManSakura and ManRin?
>>
>>160920630
I don't like him, but I can admit his concept had potential which is wasted by the execution. He'd have been better and way more tolerable as a side-character.
>>
>>160921082
With a strap on.
>>
>>160921141
Wouldn't need a strap on for Sakura, the worms should force him to get erect and she can bounce on his dick while he whimpers for her to stop.
>>
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>>160921036
>>
>>160914002
Don't make servants so OP. put some jojo shit in it. 10/10
>>
What's wrong with sieg?
>>
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>>160921329
(you) complete me
>>
>>160921374
bait
>>160921357
Fuck you, for making me think about something so fucking cool.
>>
>>160921427
I'm a secondary
>>
>>160921474
Super duper bait.

Also how would Fate stay night be if jojo Arhur wrote it instead?
>>
>>160914428
Watch everyone get put on blast once Last Encore airs
>>
>>160914207
But anon, my dick will die.
>>
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What is happening here?
>>
>>160914530
how do you fall from a bike with training wheels?
>>
>>160922536
Those wounds don't necessarily need to be from falling. They could be from fighting.
>>
>>160922536
By being Mordred
>>
>>160922536
You have to keep in mind that Mordred is a retard.
>>
>>160914002
gay girls, and most manly of men
>>
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>>160914002
Add more swimsuit.
>>
>>160922983

What is that weapon?
>>
>>160916284
Is Mordred more like a mentally retarded girl or more like an irrational animal?
>>
>>160923049
A demonic guitare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW9OhCliKBQ
>>
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>>160917405
>>160920630
>>160908910
>>160908970
>>160868738
>>160916337
>>160916337

This is an obvious sign that you're trying too hard.

Why? Why do you keep posting the same shit over and over?

You don't realize that its shit posts are so predictable that even a 2-year-old kid with down syndrome can identify them easily.

Aren't you ashamed of yourself?
>>
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>>160923078
100% retarded. I'd rather die without an heir than have this autistic sperglord succeed me too.
>>
>>160918202
holy fuck kill yourself autist
>>
>>160914002
Remove Mordred with its excessive, pointless fanservice and bland forced comedy.
>>
>>160923208
Super duper bait.
>>
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>Mordred managed to kill based Gawain
Literally how?
>>
>>160923272
He was wounded after his fight with Lancelot.
>>
>>160921036
>db super. Re:creators. Fate. Gundam. Clockwork. Full metal. Berserk. AoT. Sword art online. Madoka. Pokemon. Sakura the fucking fap catcher.
Is this ironic or just genuine reddit?

>dropout
Ah, it's genuine Reddit thinking he's in good company.
>>
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Add more traps
>>
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>Sieg-kun... I hope he's not off into trouble again.
>>
>>160914207
Yorokobe Shonen.
>>
>>160920179
Perfect body.
>>
>>160922983
N O B U
O
B
U
>>
>>160914034
Can't, we've been timelocked
>>
>>160914052
Fuck Sieg, shit character with a very common theme surrounding him
>>
>>160922983
I wish you could have both the Buster shirt, and the cape, full ascension Nobu is rocking though
>>
>>160923886
>shitter defending
Do you have white knight syndrome?
SJW are 100% reddit
>>
>>160924483
you have problems dude
>>
>>160924483
Nah, I am not defending a shitter. I am just calling another one out.
>>
How did you get into Type Moon? What keeps you playing FGO?
>>
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>>160914002
Saber/Mordred oyakodon
>>
>>160914455
>Nasu wanted Ufo to make a Fate route adaptation to keep it consistant with Zero
>Miura threw a tantrum because muh emiya
>Nasu being a polite Japanese man bowed and said it was for the best
>then wrote a short novel about Arturia and Merlin and Camelot to bundle in UBW BD which had Fate route ending as the most important and relevant one of the three routes which directly connects to FGO and big Universe and timeline crisis
>>
>>160923278
The eternal frog ruins everything
>>
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Fate/stay night
https://www.mofumoe.org/content/fatestay-night

Fate/stay night [Réalta Nua]
https://nyaa.si/view/427133
realtapatch.tumblr.com/

Fate/hollow ataraxia
https://www.mofumoe.org/content/fatehollow-ataraxia

Tsukihime
https://sukebei.nyaa.si/view/1705201

Tsukihime Fun Disc: PLUS-DISC
https://www.mofumoe.org/content/tsukihime-plus-disc

Tsukihime Fun Disc: Kagetsu Tohya
https://www.mofumoe.org/content/kagetsu-tooya

Melty Blood: Actress Again Current Code
https://mega.nz/#!38YgRTIS!hXliYFjdKtYvtMYd9M2Az2HuigizUvNtpYMOAurmyXY

Rips of TYPE-MOON's PC games
https://mega.nz/#F!BA4yHYoT!NwGVKj4q9Z1vnpKlYY-4UQ

TMDict, a compilation of Nasuverse dictionary entries
http://tmdict.com
>>
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>>
>>160924715
>Pic
Strange Fake's Fake Grail War happens after the 5th HGW, IIRC.
>>
why are assassins so flat? They ruined the whole episode!
>>
>>160914002
Go back in time and stop extra from happening. Video games corrupted time moon.
>>
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>>160924863

I want this doujin
Then i want Mordred to grow a cock and impale Kairi just to prove she is a boy
>>
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>>160924863
>>160924969
>>
>>160924863
Disgusting, Go Lion and Mordred have a healthy father/son relationship.
>>
Anyway to play the vn on a phone I'm a bit of a poorfag
>>
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>>160923272
Because Gawain was a sperg whose only real talent was trash-talking.
>>
Even in Apocrypha, every servant is going to die, that's a no brainer, but please tell me Berserker's Master will at least survive. He's such nice guy and I don't want him to die.
>>
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>>160918203
Smiles are never protected in animu anymore.
>>
>>160925355
>every servant is going to die
Astolfo survives, actually. Caules and Fiore too, he becomes Waver's student.
>>
>>160925245
did morder kill Gawain?
>>
>>160924715
You still need to fix that picture, man. Fate/Strange Fake verifiably takes place after the 5th Fuyuki HGW and after the events of Hollow Ataraxia. The events of Hollow Ataraxia are referenced at least once in Strange Fake, by Gilgamesh.
>>
>>160925245
That smug smile always gets me.
>>
>>160925551
nvm i read the wiki.Woah fuck lancelot. also Arturia is a cock
>>
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>>160925509
Unfortunately, this event leads Flat to believe his position is being usurped and he slaughters half of London in yanderemode. Not really. He just goes on to participate in a better Grail War with a better Jack the Ripper.
>>
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Here's one instance of verification.
>>
>>160924286
You literally don't know when to stop.
Tou have problems dude.
>>
>>160924554
holy shit bro, are you paying attention to the actual problem? It is no wonder that he continues to post the same shit over and over, see >>160924286
>>
>>160914002
A zero sequel by Urobuchi, the first entry in the Urobuchi verse.

It will be great.
>>
>>160923078
She IS a mentally retarded girl, she's like seven years old.
>>
>Siegfags think that only one person can hate the shitty Higashide's self-insert
How can anyone be that deluded?
>>
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>>160925688
>yandere Flat
This actually sounds legitimately terrifying.
>>
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Who is the trap here ?
>>
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>>160916284
>>
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and the big question is: How did he manage to find another car so fast and break into it?
>>
>>160926208
Neither. Both are female. There's a reason Arturia didn't accept Mordred.
>>
>>160926300
Which is?
>>
>>160925509
Thank fucking goodness. If Fran-chan is going to die, at least her Master will survive.
>>
>Aposhit finishes airing
>Extra anime right after
>HF movies too
>autism will continue for a fucking year
Fate was a mistake
>>
>>160926323
She is black.
>>
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>>160926274
We also know that there was no other car next to it.
>>
>>160926323
Result of rape. GAY rape.
>>
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>>160918202
>>160923148
>>160925794
i tried telling /a/ but they called me a siegfag
>>
>>160926477
But the child is innocent. Just burn the witch and everything is fine.
>>
>>160924578
Tried the DEEN anime without knowing it was a VN. Didn't like it in the slightest. Pirated Fate/Extra on a whim since I saw it whilst browsing, fell in love with Nero and here we are.
>>
>>160926539
But she is black.
>>
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>>160926567
>fell in love with Nero
>>
>>160926539
if no kingship was involved, probably, but see
>>160914568
>>
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>>160926274
Why didn't Jack just throw her knife?
>>
>>160925794
>he
That's how you rationalize the widespread hate of a shit character? Fucking wow, and I thought the Nile was just a river in Egypt.
>>
>>160926599
Make another child, preferably a boy, have him be king instead.
Mordred is acknowledged - as a bastard child (still a knight, maybe you can tell her she is really lucky compared to 99% of the pleb).
There, everything is fine.
>>
>>160926323
Arturia didnt accept Mordred as her child since Arturia cut herself off from any kind of normal human interaction.

She clearly respected Mordred's ability as Mordred managed to find herself on the Round Table but she would never have accept her as an heir or sucessor simply because she jugdged correctly that Mordred would have been a completely fucking terrible king.
>>
>>160926725
>Make another child, preferably a boy
How? Saber can't just become a dickgirl at will.
>>
>>160926539
Yes, that's why Mordred wasn't punished. She was just not accepted as Arturia's child, because she didn't make her. She was result of rape. GAY rape.
>>
>>160926725
You forgot one thing. Arturia has autism. Checkmate great Britannia
>>
Listen, I have nothing personal against Sieg but if he were to... let's say... disappear form Apocrypha, if you know what I mean, the series would skyrocket in quality.

Just take a look at the last episode. Best episode so far in my humble opinion of course.

And the next episode? I can almost grantee Sieg will be in focus and it will be one of the most boring episodes to date. Last time when he was in focused he had amazing cutie Astolfo with him and BADASS Siegfried to save the scenes. Now that he is alone it's going to get bad, quickly.

So please refrain from using terms such as "threadshitter" and insulting our opinions, opinions that would SAVE the series mind you.
>>
>>160926870
Here brother. Let us drink knowing that one faggot ruin a series that could been good
>>
>>160926870
No shit. Apoc really baits you with interesting characters at the beginning and then becomes DRAGON DICK worship for entire volumes.
>>
>>160926870
Astolfo is shit though, and Siegfried's a retard
>>
>>160926567
>>fell in love with Nero

My fellow human being of darker skin persuasion
>>
>>160926870
This passive-aggresiveness. Bene.
Also,
>...
>>
>>160926870
I'd have nothing against him if he was actually interesting desu.
>>
>>160914002
More Urobuchi level of darkness and edginess.
Only used for dark comedy instead of edgy drama.
>>
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>>160926870
I can't tell what is bait and what is real anymore
>>
>>160927161
The bait is real and the real is bait.
>>
>>160926870
Sieg is turning into more of scapegoat than anything. Fatefags like you are acting like Sieg is the only problem this literal shitshow has.
>>
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Give us more Bazett.
She doesn't get enough love.
>>
>>160915083
Literally only Guinevere, Merlin, and Lancelot knew the truth about Arthur being a girl. Mordred never knew.
>>
>>160926870
I hate Sieg, but your post looks like a shitty pasta.
>>
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>>160926870
>>
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>>160926870
>>
>>160914002
Sieg is just a boring new character, not really an issue, those are everywhere.
The real question is, how did they make the Fate version of Jeanne more boring than the real life version.
Same goes for Nero.
>>
>>160916284
>It was because you don't have the capacity of a king
>>
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>>160927230
>fucking Sieg gets more screentime than Bazetto
>>
>>160917305
So Astolfo should be a huge womanizer?
>>
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This guy:
>was expected to either be an eternal battery for the other Servants or, if need be, become food for Adam to see if that would wake him up.
Instead, he:
>gained consciousness
>gained an instinct to survive
>fired up his circuits and freed himself
>ran out of the lab with his feeble body
>cheered on, learned to walk
>decided to leave the castle despite all the dangers
>forced a veteran mage to defend himself with magic
I don't know about you, but I admire the guy.
>>
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>>160927375
>Apo got animated
>Ataraxia anime is nowhere to be seen
>>
>>160927230
She'll get her time when HA anime comes around. That, or she becomes another of the Pseudo-Servants in GO.
>>
>>160914002
Why is there no MordredXKairi porn? Dude looks like he could give a good dicking.
>>
>>160927493
So why don't they just cripple all the homunculus?
I understand then didn't think escape was possible but now that one escaped I would just broken all their legs or screwed/cut their ankles
>>
>>160927493
>THE CHOSEN ONE wakes up and escapes his vat because DESTINY
>'just happens' to bump into chalemagne's knight, who automatically lusts after his dick within four seconds of seeing him
>ANOTHER legendary knight literally gives him a nuclear-powered god-heart because DESTINY
>A FUCKING SAINT shows up and IMMEDIATELY starts lusting after his dick, vowing to defend him with her life
>becomes a master warrior within two days of just sitting there
>tanks servants
>defeats god
>eats the holy grail and his soul becomes immortal

Are you reading this? This faggot is a worse Mary Sue than Enoby.
>>
>>160927667
Or just build them without legs or arms
>>
>>160927712
What you should be reading is the LN. Oh wait, you won't because it'd mess up your narrative.
>>
>>160927245
>I hate fictional characters
Don't you have anything better to do with your life?
>>
>>160927667
Because they didn't suspect that one of them would ever open their eyes.
>>
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Semi-sama
>>
>>160927712
Enoby at least had some character development. Her hatred of preps was well-characterized, for instance. Sieg is literally a block of tofu.
>>
>>160927897
Is she the least popular Apo girl?
>>
>>160927880
Do you have nothing better to do with your life other than reply to posts you don't like?
>>
>>160927884
Yeah but what's stopping them from crippling the homunculus to prevent future escapes?
>>
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>>160927521
>>
You know there's one thing about Arthurian legend that I'm surprised Nasu or his franchise has never delved into, and it's that Mordred was not Arthur's only son. He had several illegitimate children since like his father Uther he had the fatal flaw that he couldn't keep his dick in his pants. It's just that only one of them tried to forcefully take the throne.
>>
>>160927955
No, I think that would be Celenique/Celenike.
>>
>>160927927
>someone who was actually trying to be serious wrote a worse character than Enoby
This deserves some kind of trophy. Or maybe euthanasia.
>>
>>160927985
Because that would damage their circuits. They need those to power the Servants.
>>
>>160927963
Answer the question, fag.
>>
>>160926567
>the state of nerofags
>>
>>160928106
After (You)
>>
>>160928181
That's not how it works, boyo.
>>
>>160914232
>Full plate armor for a child.
>>
>>160928004
>think it's bullshit
>wiki it
>sons: Amhar, Llacheu, Mordred, Duran
>Mordred himself had 2 sons
>Arthur murdered literally all of them

The fuck was this guy's problem,was he THAT determineed that only his cousin would succeed him?
>>
>>160928227
>>160928181
just fuck already, jeez
>>
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>>160916858
oooOOOOOoOOooooOOooorgh!
>>
>>160928246
Weren't Mordred and Gawain half-brothers, too? Or am I confusing things?
>>
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>>160928246
There's also Tom, the most recently written son of Arthur.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_a_Lincoln
>>
>>160927712
>>160927839
>What you should be reading is the LN.
buttt... how is this possible? I would like to remind you that only volumes 1, 2 and4 were done, but 3 has been unfinished for years and no one has touched 5.
>>
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>>160928004
So basically Artoria is canonically a mega slut?
That's hot
>>
>>160928246
Arthur is like the God Emperor of Man. Good general and statesman, literally worst father ever.
>>
>>160928420
Exactly; they're trolling.
>>
>>160928420
Then read what's available FFS
>>
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>In Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, the sexual advances of Lady Bertilak allude to a potential sodomitical relationship with Sir Bertilak. Based on the bargain to give each other their respective daily gains, Gawain must give the kisses he receives from Lady Bertilak to Sir Bertilak.

What a faggot.
>>
>>160928452
No-one is trolling. If there are available sources, read them.
>>
Create some Portuguese servants
>>
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>>160928004
>Saber literally went around sticking her dick in anything with a hole

Reminds me of a certain doujin
>>
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>>160914002
Get best boy animated
>>
>>160928528
>"If there are available sources, read them."
>there are not available sources
>>
>being a huge siegshitter butthurt because my favorite character isnt the MC
>being a huge siegshitter butthurt because my favorite character didn't get more screentime

Any other points I forgot to add to this list of "how to spot a Siegshitter?"
>>
>>160928599
>best boy

Maybe for edgy losers.
>>
>>160928680
Books 1,2,4 and incomplete 3 are available. No sources, you say?
>>
>>160928599
Avenger did nothing wrong.
>>
>>160914002
>Gentlemen, how do we save Fate?
With a reboot
>>
>>160928919
He won the lottery.
>>
>>160928246
Arthur's tale was never a happy one. He was a Heroic king, but flawed human.
Well, that's what it became, at least. As far as I know, the original Arthurian Legends had Arthur fucking bitches and ruling it all, with no problems and it was all FUCK YEAH BRITAIN propaganda bullshit. Mordred didn't even exist.
>>
>>160929095
French fanfics were a mistake.
>>
>>160928246
He never truly cared about those kids. He liked their mothers, their mothers liked him, they fucked, he was on his way to do better things than manage a family, like managing a fucking Kingdom. He just never really had any reason to put them before his kingdom, or to give them his kingdom.
>>
>>160914002
More traps and lolis
>>
>>160926752
>Mordred would have been a completely fucking terrible king.

Mordred would definitely be a terrible king according to Arturia's 'Zero Humanity' have-to-be-perfect-all-the-time standards. In the end, autism ran in the family.
>>
>>160928549
>Create some Portuguese servants
Cristiano Ronaldo's female version
>>
>>160928004
>>160928246
Nasu mainly uses Malory as background, which has only one son.

>>160928364
Yes, Gawain is son of Morgause (not Morgan), while Mordred is also generally seen as being Morgause's offspring. Morgan doing the enchanting is a Nasu thing.
>>
>>160928420
>>160928685
These were the best posts I’ve seen on /a/ threads for a long time.
>>
>>160928685
Literally this. they act like 3-year-old mentally handicapped children.
>>
>>160929774
>autism ran in the family.
How so? What part of Arturia would you call "autism"? Being a great king that can actually look at things objectively to decide the best course of action? That's autism? No, that's being a superior being than a mere human.
>>
>>160928875
https://fateapocryphathetranslation.wordpress.com/
>>
>>160928685
Are you, mayhaps, insinuating that the individual known as Sieg is the best character?
>>
>>160928004
It also will be noted that the sources stating Arthur had multiple sons strictly exclude the Mordred rebellion and vice versa.
>>
>>160928967
Nero was good in Extra, but Extella and Grand Order ruined her.
>>
>>160929934
>King Arthur doesn't understand human emotions
Is literally autism
>>
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butthurt autistic
>>
>>160929934
>can actually look at things objectively to decide the best course of action
But that's not what she was able to do.

Moreover, there is a power in-universe which appears to be specifically dedicated to enabling kings to do exactly that, and it is not a power possessed by any existing variation of Artoria.
>>
>>160930087
She choose not to. As a King, she made the decision human emotions are only detrimental when it came to running a kingdom. It's not that she didn't have emotions. She did, quite clearly. It's not that she could not understand basic emotions. She could. She just didn't let them affect her duty as a King. She was perfect. Too perfect.
>>
>>160930077
Good thing Nasu's writing Last Encore and not Sakurai
>>
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>>160928875
What the fuck is your problem?
>>
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We make a second season of Canival Phantasm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpqRFLDo8I8
>>
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>>160929351
>He never truly cared about those kids.
>he was on his way to do better things than manage a family, like managing a fucking Kingdom. He just never really had any reason to put them before his kingdom, or to give them his kingdom.
>literally all goes to shit because he never cared about his kids
Gee where have I heard this before
>>
How in the world did Jack the Ripper ended up called in a Grail War as heroic spirit, but not as an avenger?

Did Grail consider killing prostitutes as a heroic deed?
>>
>>160929351
Dad....?
>>
>>160930077
Even in the other routes for Extella she was fine. She wasn't getting treated like the bestest things ever. She was still treated like a despot loved Altera specifically for her destructive capability. She saw the beauty in the havoc Altera could cause. She was still a mad king that preferred beauty over stability. If she thought the Moon Cell would look more captivating on fire and in ruins, you'd be damn sure she would set it ablaze.

People got too caught up in those two scenes were Gawain, Nameless and Cu sucked her off, rather than the rest of theplot
>>
>>160930594

At least Arthur never actively planned to have all his sons and their armies killed once his perfect kingdom was completed because they were no longer of use to him.
>>
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>>160926274
>>160926411
>>160926655
secrecy
>>
>>160930594
Read >>160930034
The earliest sources with Arthur being a shit dad have the kingdom all fine and dandy
>>
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>>160930614
Read the light novel series "Fate/Strange Fake". It doesn't have an Avenger Jack, but it answers your question.
>>
>>160930710
But Amhar explictly died at Camlann alongside Mordred
>>
>>160928685
Sad, but true.
>>
>>160930594
The Horus Heresy is less King Arthur IN SPACE and more "what if Jesus was a gigantic dick"
>>
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My waifu
>>
>>160930077
She was okay at BEST in Extra. A lot of the elements that made her terrible are still present in Extra. Most of the groudwork was laid in Extra, Extella just took it to extremes. The reason I didn't hate her in Extra, though, was because she was completely and entirely avoidable. She wasn't forced down my throat. I tried her, and I quit her route as soon as her backstory started coming up and she turned out to be a victim of sorts.
>>
>>160929351
If you're truly dedicated to kingdom-management then you should post-fucking-haste stabilize the line of succession, and Arthur evidently failed spectacularly at that.
>>
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>>160930594
>Emperor
>failure to impregnate any of his kids
>dead as fuck
>Tomaru
>properly impregnates his daughters like a loving parent
>living
>>
>>160930822

Not the Emperor's fault that he had no daughters. well I guess it kinda is since he had all his sons created in vats.

>>160930819

He did have a successor picked out, it was his cousin.
>>
>>160930744
Yeah, but it doesn't mention Mordred usurping the kingdom and destroying everything, merely their deaths.
>>
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>>160930822
>Emperor
>dead
BEGONE TRAITOR LEGION, YOU WILL NOT SPREAD YOUR LIES HERE
>>
>>160930730
>read
No thanks, I'll wait for the anime
>>
>>160930813
>I tried her, and I quit her route as soon as her backstory started coming up and she turned out to be a victim of sorts.
>I quit
Taking away that freedom and making it a harem bullshit was one of the worst mistakes made in Extella. Hakuno's relationship with his servant goes from one of love to one where you'll cheat on her by fucking any and every girl that comes your way.
>>
To be fair, I don't think you can really expect Saber to take responsibility for an illegitimate child that was conceived by her sister raping her. To begin with, wasn't she in kind of a precarious position? Imagine the scandal that would have erupted if it were revealed that King Arthur had an illegitimate heir.

Well, at least she gave Mordred a comfy job as a Knight of the Round Table.
>>
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>>160930903
>worshipping a corpse god
>in the year 40017

Get a load of this loyalist!
>>
>>160930614
Jack is a gestalt of the souls of fetuses aborted by the London prostitutes and stalked the city trying to fulfill their only wish, to return to their mothers wombs.
>>
>>160931009
how edgy
>>
>>160930907
>I'll just wait 6 years for the answer to a question which I asked today
>>
>>160930744
> Amhar explictly died at Camlann
I don't know where you're getting this. Amhar = Amr, and we only know (from Nennius) Amr dies by Arthur's hand at some random place.
>>
>>160930614
Generally, Avenger is a REALLY difficult class to qualify for. Before Fate/Grand Order, the only Avenger we knew of was Angra Mainyu.
>>
>>160930989
Yeah, what Saber did was right, assuming everyone else was logical. Unfortunately, Mordred was a batshit insane retard.
>>
>>160931035
Also, in Grand Order Jack calls her Master "mother" no matter the gender.
>>
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>Haha lets make Nero even more OP!
>But why?
>>
>>160930953

Yeah the harem thing was kind of crummy. I mean I get what they were going for with the whole mind/body/soul split, it was an interesting idea.
But Extella kind of spits in the face of people who preferred other servants over Nero by the end.
>>
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>>160931100
If I summon her I become a mother?!
>>
>>160931085
What Mordred wanted more than anything else was acknowledgement and affection from her most beloved father. But I guess Saber didn't really know how to meet those desires.

Whether she was "inhuman" or not, it's a fact that Saber wasn't that good at responding to the feelings of others. One only needs to look no further than the Fate route to see that. That was Lancelot's beef with her too, though one can't deny that Lancelot's madness was more his own fault than hers.
>>
>>160931138
Preparation for when Beast Nero comes out.
>>
>>160931138
Because it honestly suits her. What kind of Saber has D rank Strength and B rank Mana with a Noble Phantasm that uses high Thaumaturgy to create a Golden Theater that acts as a giant workshop?

She should have been a Caster from the start.
>>
>>160930989
She could have bullshitted that she didn't cheat on her wife because Mordred looks the same age as she physically is, which is 15, which would still be in the time when she was kicking ass, and taking names, and only 5 years later would she marry Guinevere while constructing Camelot, but Mordred aging super fast would still fuck with things, and there'd still be drama over her shafting her wife by legitimizing a bastard
>>
>>160931138
>Caster
>uses sword
>>
>>160931218
The butt mad will be infinite.
>>
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>>160931175
Yes, please take good care of her and dress her in cute outfits.
>>
>>160931077
It is still a difficult class to qualify for. Those who can be/are summoned into it are exclusively those who would and could exist solely for the purpose of exacting revenge; revenge being the only wish that they possess. That is my understanding of it, anyway - look at the candidates:

Angra Mainyu, Edmond Dantes, Jeanne Alter, Captain Ahab - they all fit that M.O. to a tee.
>>
>>160931138
That why part I never understood. Other OP characters before her made some sense. Gilgamesh, the oldest Hero and 2/3 God. Arturia, fucking King Arthur, the Hero King. Even Alexander made sense, being a King who never lost a battle. But Nero? He did jack shit. He oppressed the weak. That was his strongest achievement. So how the fuck does that lead to a tiny girl who can literally do anything and everything, even inherent power of Gods. This is probably one of the reasons why people think Nero is kind of just forced.
>>
>>160931267
Runaway Privilege EX

Its like Imperial Privilege but even more bullshit.
>>
>>160931267
why do they even bother with servant classifications anymore
>>
>>160931364

I imagine Nero's popularity has something to do with it.
>>
>>160931364
Yeah, of anyone to genderbend why fucking Nero? He's widely regarded as a terrible fucking emperor. Caesar or Augustus would've been a far better choice. Hell Hadrian because >muh britain
>>
>>160931364
All of the Roman Emperors share Imperial Privilege
>>
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>>160930847
Anon, Primarchs regularly have fill their "sons" with their "gene-seed".
>>
>>160931432
Personally, I'd fine if it was just a genderbend. What happens here is that they genderbend, but keep their dick, which is constantly forced down everyone's throats.
>>
>>160931458

Yeah but the Emperor had no daughters. No the Sororitas doesn't count, they're only metaphorical daughters of the Emperor.
>>
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Burn the slut of Orleans!
>>
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>>160931138
>Whore of Babylon

>>160931364
When you give the writers sexual favors, you start to get more than just penis.
>>
>>160931364
>But Nero? He did jack shit.

Killed Boudica and raped her husband and children.
>>
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best ass
>>
>>160931512
Why didn't he fuck that boipucci?
>>
>>160931523
Gawain is a true Hero. He deserves far more than what he got. Hopefully, the anime won't try to censor him and instead focus on him even more. That one thing alone will make the anime worth watching.
>>
>>160928243
You can't never be too careful. One second of not looking at your kid and a catastrophe will happen.
>>
>>160931364
>So how the fuck does that lead to a tiny girl who can literally do anything and everything, even inherent power of Gods.

Because Roman emperors were seen as the closest thing to Gods. If a Roman emperor said that the color white was black, then it would be regarded as black from that point on

All the roman emperor servants share the same trait Nero does. She's actually a terrible Saber with less than compatible stats like a D in both strength and endurance. Her NP is a B rank that does practically nothing.

She only survived Extella because she had a ring of infinite mana that boosted all her parameters.

She isn't actually overpowered in the least. As a Caster she might be, because she was primarily an "artist" in real life. As a Saber, she's pretty shit compared to Aturia and Altera. Lets just say if she was in either of the Stay Night/Zero Grail Wars, she'd have been jobbed out very swiftly.
>>
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>>160931432
>Caesar

To bad they made him a fatass.
>>
>>160931754
Genderbent Caesar would be fun though. Especially the muh beware the Ides of May
>>
>>160931738
She beats fucking Buddha.
>>
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>>160930252
shes a chuuni dumb womanchild
>>
>>160931559
I want to sexually fuck Semiramis
>>
>>160931738
>Lets just say if she was in either of the Stay Night/Zero Grail Wars

She would do what she always does bullshit her way to victory.
>>
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Why does everyone hate Sieg again? I haven't seen/read Apocrypha, but I think he's cute.
>>
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>>160931539
Then FGO's Rome even had Boudica wank Nero.
>>
We need to go back in time and make sure Fate ends with CCC.
>>
I think Assassin works. No one ever knew Jack the Ripper's identity, so a bunch of different things can ride his coattails and become a Servant under his name. It's a bit like Sasaki Kojirou.
>>
>>160931787
None of Hakuno's Servants beat Buddha. Buddha just fucks off on his own.
>>
>>160931943
Useless, emotionless, and goes out like a bitch for an equally shitty tube baby
>>
>>160931787
So does Redman and he still lost to Haracles and Shiro in Stay Night.

Buddha wasn't really trying in Extra. After "beating" him, he just kinda shrugs it off and says everything will eventually die anyway so what does it matter. He doesn't lose, he just leaves.
>>
>>160931961
Except Boudica is pretty damn passive aggressive over Rome and Nero, it's just that she's not some retarded Berserker who is too focused on murdering everything to think that she should just attack everything Roman, rather than siding with the relatively decent Rome against its enemies
>>
>>160932042
>Haracles and Shiro in Stay Night.
Yeah, he lost to fucking immortal God, and he never lost a battle to Shirou. He just gave up.
>>
>>160931943
see >>160918202 >>160923148 >>160927839 >>160928685
>>
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>>160931315
Jack's wish is to return to her mother's womb, isn't it? What if you(male) actually win a grail war with her and she makes that wish while she sees you as her mother?
>>
>>160931943
In Apocrypha, he sacrifices his life to save a homunculus by transplanting his heart into him, giving him his powers. This creates a horrible MC who ruined the series.
In Grand Order, his shtick of dragonslaying is useless outside of very specific scenarios, and his bonuses to fighting dragons are lower than taking advantage of rock-paper-scissors between classes. Outside of that his stats are also pretty weak. In the GO plot you meet him when he's wounded and useless and joins the plot for 1 or 2 fights.

Sumanai
>>
>>160932113
It'd end exactly as fucked up as shoving a teenage girl in a woman's cooch
>>
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>>160932034
please shitter, get out
>>
>>160931961

I now desire a Boudica / Nero doujin that involves some delicious hate sex
>>
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>>160932113
You have until the end of the war to convince her to let you enter her womb instead.
>>
>>160932109
Basically this
>>
>>160914207
Have a side chapter of Kirei doing odd jobs.
>>
>>160932042
>After "beating" him
Yes, beating him. No need for quotation marks. He doesn't just fuck off without losing. He has been fighting for Twice for who knows how long. Why didn't fuck off until that point?
>>
>>160932187
>muh boogieman
fuck off autist
>>
>>160931961
She explained that the reason she sided with Nero was because the other side was plain worse. That's as nice as she gets towards Nero in Rome.
>>
>>160932143
Sieg is not Siegfried.

Nobody hates Siegfried.
>>
>>160932113
Simple. You make her a mother by then.
>>
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>>160932143
I chose Seiggy with my free four star summon instead of Emiya because I thought he looked cool and Emiya is overplayed.

Sumanai indeed. Robin is the superior GO husbando anyway.
>>
>>160932285
>shitter defending
fuck off autist
>>
>>160931961
This is what happens wen someone that isn't Nasu writes Nero.

It ends up as endless wank wen the whole point of her is that she's and endearing fuck up that knows that she's a fuck up but is still very happy with herself.
>>
>>160932314
Who's Seig then?

Maybe I should just buck up and watch Apocrypha so I can follow all of this bitching.
>>
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>>160932393
Why are you even posting and asking questions?
Holy shit, baka
>>
>>160931961
GO was the biggest mistake with Nero's character.

In Extra she was a genuine tyrant described as the Whore of Babylon. A monster on par with the devil. She tried to murder her mother privately and when that failed she did it in full view of the public, lying to them that her mother had tried poisoning her. Nero's wife killed herself rather than deal with Nero's bullshit. Seneca did the same. She never actively denies burning down the area of Rome she builds Domus Aurea on and after the public revolt she killed herself out of cowardice, her only reason to stay alive being not wanting to "deprive the world" of great artist like herself.

Extra painted her as a vain monster who was hated by her family and only adored by the public because she gave them free money during her coronation. She died a coward.

Extella had a lot less of the heavy stuff. She'd got over her suicide and was happy to have another kingdom, but she's still seen as a tyrant and is in awe of Altera to the extent that she was willing to let Altera rampage purely because she admired Altera's figure and destructive capability.

Last Encore shows us nothing but sadness, crying, ruined streets of rome, fire and skellingtons in the PVs. So I somehow doubt we're getting super fun Waifu time with Nero.

Septem happened along with Extella and the announcement of Last Encore and people lost their shit over how forced the character was, but if you overlook GO and a few REALLY OBVIOUS lip service scenes in Flame Poem arc, she's nowhere near as bad as people make out.
>>
>>160932491
It's best to scope out the general opinion of a Fate installment before diving in, seeing as they have a 75% chance of being absolute garbage.
>>
>>160932325
I do. I hated him the moment I saw his shit design. I hated him a bit too much because I was expecting Siegfried to be actually good, being one of the more cooler heroes.
>>
>>160932540
Or you know just watch 2-3 episodes and form your own opinion
>>
>>160932540
>It's best to scope out the general opinion of a Fate installment before diving in
Not really. A lot of people bitch about Apocrypha when it's miles more entertaining than stuff like UBW.
>>
>>160932588
>forming your own opinion
>2017
>>
>>160932513
Her mother did poison her though, it's why she has Migraines, and a wife was never mentioned in Extra
>>
>>160932598
lol
>>
>>160932598
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
look at this faggot
>>
>>160914296
>ugh why does this book have to be unique and interesting??? I just want my hunger games with king arthur!!!
>>
>>160932798
>hunger games
>not highlander
>>
>>160932723
>>160932726
He is right. Second season of UBW was complete trash.
"So tell me Shirou Emiya do you have what it takes to be champion of justce" etc etc for 8 episodes non stop
>>
>>160932798
>fate/apo
>unique and interesting

choose one
>>
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Why the fuck do the Apocrypha servants give their names at the first chance they have? wasn't their identity something meant to be kept in secret or something?
>>
>>160914480
Explain why Zero isn't literally the only post-SN work that's good and follows up on the themes, ideas, and characters presented in SN.
>>
>>160932915
Why would it matter? This isn't Extra or anything. Strongest person wins, that's all.
>>
>>160932915
They're dumb
>>
>>160916858
I can't rebel against that face but I can against that chest. Bitch flatter than Lucina.
>>
>>160932513
>lying to them that her mother had tried poisoning her.
That wasn't a lie. Her mother did actually try to poison her.
>Extra painted her as a vain monster who was hated by her family
I'm quite certain only two of Nero's family members have been characterized in Fate -- Agrippina and Caligula -- and it's a fact that at least one of them loves her.
>only adored by the public because she gave them free money during her coronation.
And because she was genuinely looking out for the general population at the expense of the higher caste, as is made unarguably clear in Extra.
>>
>>160932889
>implying I wasn't talking specifically about SN and Zero
Extra on is shlock and you'll never hear me defend it as anything better than 6/10. I enjoy it, but it's definitely not objectively good, it's because I'm a historyfag and somehow like seeing japan ruin interesting people for waifubait

i also want to marry bedivere
>>
>>160931943
This occurs because the mods and janitors are more concerned in banning on anons who complain about yuri than charactershitters spamming the same shit in each thread.
>>
>>160932932
I am, of course, not him nor do I agree with his opinions, but:
HA. SF. PI. GO.

If you're asking for an absolute, direct spiritual successor of Fate/Stay Night, there is none. What meaning would or could there be in such a work?
>>
Will Fate ever play it straight like they did in Zero again, or are we too deep down the rabbit hole?
>>
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>>160933043
>i also want to marry bedivere
Top taste.
>>
>>160933136
isn't the whole point so that it never plays it straight
>>
>>160914002
Newly written Fate route anime.
>>
>>160932513
>>In Extra she was a genuine tyrant
It's like you never even played the game. She was the very definition of dindu nuffin in Extra. Her parents were shit, she was adopted by even worse parents, her new mother poisoned and mind controlled her, after she became a king, she did all sorts of good things, but her mother wanted her to be evil, so left with no choice, she HAD to kill her mother. Because of her mothers poison she started becoming "bad". Everyone around her killed themselves and blamed her, dropping her popularity in public. The Great Fire of Rome, which almost every single record claims was started by Nero in history, in the Extra, it wasn't. She, in fact, did her very best to save her kingdom and actually put the fire out swiftly and everyone loved her for it.

Pretty much THE only mistake she made was when there was a rebellion, she didn't fight back properly. She had suffered oh so much that she literally couldn't take it anymore. Still, the rebellion died down, the man behind the rebellion started another rebellion. This time, the senate HATED Nero for not fighting back and exiled her, after which she took her own life.

This is not a tyrant. She treated her people fairly, she cared about their safety and everyone loved her. Ah, but she had a tragic life, being surrounded by a corrupt government where literally everyone but Nero was evil and every single one of them hated her and made her life miserable. To repeat myself, she was not a tyrant by any meaning of the word, she was just POOR victim who did nothing wrong.
>>
>>160931961
Are people still making this complaint sincerely or are they just feigning ignorance for the sake of shitposting?
>>
>>160933136

Fate / Stay Night was never straight, not all the time, it had plenty of comic relief and light-hearted moments.
If anything Zero is more the exception than the rule
>>
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>>160933114
>If you're asking for an absolute, direct spiritual successor of Fate/Stay Night, there is none
There's been one for quite a while now
>>
>>160914002
make fate/GO non-canon, at least all the shitposters will move to the bottomless pit whence they came from >>>/vg/
>>
>>160933234
Very funny. Now, run along.
>>
>>160914002
we make FemHakuno MC in the Fate/Extra animay.
>>
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>>160932915
fuck haremfag
>>
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>>160933210
Some people don't believe anyone would side with someone who murdered and raped their family with a simple "Oh, but others are worse". That's a shit excuse. Just the rape or murder of your own family, the people you love the most and live for, is enough to go crazy and kill someone over, She got both and just accepted it and moved on.

To make it more understandable for you, imagine if Kirei hadn't just killed Tokiomi, but also raped Sakura, Rin and Aoi. Then would Tokiomi just side with Kirei because someone worse is around? That's a rhetorical question. The answer is no, no he wouldn't.
>>
>>160933351
You don't rewrite the concept of the Holy Grail and shove it in another spinoff.
>>
>>160933203
>I can't read between the lines
Nero pls leave
>>
>>160933175
>>160933222
Fate Stay Night didn't follow its own rules for sure, but level to which Extra and Apocrypha have taken it is just way too ridiculous (you could include Grand Order here as well, but in a mobage it can't be helped.)

I'd kill for another Fate installment that capitalized on the premise without going completely out of control with the power levels and character designs.
>>
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>>160914002
Instead of writting tons of spin-offs why they didn't choose one route and continue the story from there?
>>
>>160933546
Because the story's fucking ended
>>
>>160933448
What?
>>
>>160933513
Nothing in Extra feels out of place or out there, though. All the batshit stuff happens in CCC anyway.
>>
>>160933513

I've always just enjoyed Fate's wild ride through it's various incarnations.
>>
>>160933426
>>160933379
anonI have bad news, you have been diagnosed with autism
>>
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>>160915665
>wanting to replace best boy Richard
>>
>>160933546
They did, it was called F/HA, and for years it was the only extension the franchise had.
>>
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>>160933585
>>
>>160933513
So what, you want a Grail War with just average Masters, average Servants and no wild cards?
>>
>>160917191
>>160923078
she's not retarded nor is she autistic. She's a five year old child.
>>
>>160933625
shiroufags are so delusional
>>
>>160933648
And this relates to your nigh-incoherent response to me in what way?
>>
>make arthur a boy

there, i've eradicated the waifu plague before it even began
>>
>>160933732
Maybe you should play Extra before commenting
>>
>>160933698
the thing is those wild cards you speak of are chuuni as fuck, you canhave interesting characters without going MUH OVER 9000 POWERLEVEL wankery shit
>>
>>160933738
Would've also killed Fate too
>>
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>>160933714
Doesn't look like a child to me
>>
>>160933813

even better
>>
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>>160933738
>>
>>160933813
t. Takeuchi
>>
>>160933738

Then you just make Prototype which is an otomege.
>>
>>160915083
Arturia hides her true identity to be king. Mordred realizes she can't legitimately claim the throne if people know she's a woman
>>
>>160933762
On what? I didn't propose anything!
>>
>>160933843
>>160933848
He's right though. He was already in the industry when Nasu started, he knows the business side of things a lot better.
>>
>>160933203
>The Great Fire of Rome, which almost every single record claims was started by Nero in history, in the Extra, it wasn't.
Even historians in the era of the fire itself noted how fucking batshit it was to accuse Nero of starting the fire. Get a fucking education.
>This is not a tyrant.
Roman Emperors were tyrants by definition you complete fucking idiot. The real definition, not the nu-male modern definition of 'm-muh bad leader'. For that matter, none of Nero's characterization in any Fate media is that far out of line with most research that has been done on Nero's actual reign. You could read fucking Wikipedia and get a pretty detailed breakdown of his strengths, weaknesses, what went right and what went wrong for him. Nero was hated by the upper classes of Rome but beloved by the people for his philanthropic policies such as vetoing laws the Senate meant to pass that would make the lives of slaves and common folk much harder. Eventually Nero's lack of strong leadership bit him in the ass and his generals started to revolt and the general he dispatched to deal with said revolt got pushed by the Senate into starting his own revolt to overthrow Nero.
>>
>>160933799
That's kinda how Heroic Spirits work in this franchise. There aren't really any Heroic Spirits that don't fall under the category of broken or bizarre at least in certain specific conditions. That's the basis of what a Heroic Spirit is, someone who gained fame through the results of miraculous actions in the course of their lifetime. In the case of those that didn't, their legends are simply heavily exaggerated to the point where they are granted abilities that they never had in life simply due to those myths and rumors.
>>
>>160933843
God bless Takeuchi
>>
>>160933428
Your comparison doesn't work. Nero had no input on what was done to Boudica's family. Nero was only informed about it after the fact. Both Nero and Boudica are aware of this. That's a critical detail you left out. Your example of Tokiomi and Kirei is not at all equivalent to the circumstances of Boudica and Nero.
>>
>>160933698
I want a Grail War with intelligent Masters and battle strategies that use Servants to their full potential, not just powerlevel bullshit that could be worked out with a calculator.
>>
>>160914034
This.
>>
>>160933938
Oh, so even now Nero is not a bad guy. She'll forever remain the victim, with everyone else around her being evil. Good to know.
>>
>>160933203
>started by Nero
>he literally wasn't even in Rome at the time
>>
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>>160933850
>implying otome is worse than harem
There was potential for it to be neither. A male King Arthur wouldn't make it otome by default. It's everything else that's wrong with Prototype that makes it a bad alternative.

We could have had Kerry with male Arthur. Wouldn't that have been a hoot.
>>
>>160933991
Considering the real Nero wasn't a bad guy himself, yeah, I don't think there's any reason that Fate Nero needs to be some evil soul hellbent on destroying everything.
>>
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>>160934023
>>
>>160934031
yeah, its just a shoujoshit/Reverse harem
>>
>>160933892
He was in the pornographic doujin 'industry'. Nothing else.
>>
>>160933944
>intelligent Masters

Doesn't exist. Almost all Magi are gonna be heavily autistic by their very nature. You don't become a Magus without being at least a high functioning autist. You should be able to understand that just from reading about how they function, what kind of lives they tend to live, what their generalized ideals and goals are, etc.

There are few Magi who would make for excellent strategists or generals. The most talented among them tend to seclude themselves in their homes, studying. While bloodbaths are common among Magi, a battle between Magi is rarely a battle of tactical wits, but a display of power and attribute advantages. Furthermore, most Magi have strict, archaic standards that end up prohibiting them from utilizing certain methods that might benefit them, such as the usage of firearms, hence why someone like Kiritsugu could be so threatening to them.

What you want isn't a battle between "intelligent Masters", but a battle between seven wild cards.
>>
>>160933991
>so even now Nero is not a bad guy.
Well, yeah. Why the fuck would you think otherwise?
>>
>transbait
>trapbait
>harembait
>pedobait
>self-incertbait
>incestbait
>lolibait
Am I missing anything?
>>
>>160933905
>You could read fucking Wikipedia
I'll take that advise.

>Tacitus wrote that some ancient accounts described the fire as an accident, while others had claimed that it was a plot of Nero's. Tacitus is the only surviving source which does not blame Nero for starting the fire; he says he is "unsure." Pliny the Elder, Suetonius and Cassius Dio all wrote that Nero was responsible for the fire. These accounts give several reasons for Nero's alleged arson like Nero's envy of King Priam and a dislike for the city's ancient construction.
There. Something taken directly from that very wiki you mentioned. Multiple sources claim Nero started the fire, while a single source claims "not sure", still not calling Nero innocent. So, where exactly did you get Nero didn't start the fire bullshit?
>>
>>160934031

You realize Prototype was a reverse harem, right?
>I'm a mousey girl who has a special power but not that special and suddenly I'm surrounded by attractive men that want to fuck me

>>160934099

What industry do you think T-M started out in?
>>
>>160934130
Probably because Nero is widely regarded as one of the worst Emperors in the entire history of mankind.
>>
>>160934182
I sometimes forget that Nasu is apparently a dude. He seems to think like a fujo at times.
>>
>>160934214

Not him but while Nero was bad he wasn't THAT bad, you basically gotta singlehandedly bring about the fall of your kingdom to be in that category.
>>
>>160934182
Yes, I realize that, but a reverse harem (otome) is no better worse than the standard harem we have now.

>I'm an average guy who has a special power but not that special and suddenly I'm surrounded by attractive girls that want to fuck me
Stay Night in a nutshell.
>>
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>>160934182
>there will never be a world where we have an h scene of the prototype mc being triple-teamed by Arthur, Gil and Cu
>>
>>160934075
This.
More people need to become historyfags.

>>160934214
Being a bad Emperor doesn't necessarily mean everyone hated him. As said previously, generally the masses liked Nero but the Senate and generals weren't so fond.
>>
>>160933843
Making Guts a woman would introduce some interesting drama between her and Griffith, though there's simply too many thing that would change due to Guts' gender that I can't even imagine how it would go
>>
>>160934325
Plus how would Casca work?
>>
>>160934214
Then you've made the mistake of conflating historical accounts with some Japanese guy's escapist fiction.
>>
>>160934306
The masses liked fucking Hitler. Was he also a good guy?
>>
>>160934334
Exactly right, shit would be way too different
>>
>>160934179
>There. Something taken directly from that very wiki you mentioned. Multiple sources claim Nero started the fire, while a single source claims "not sure", still not calling Nero innocent. So, where exactly did you get Nero didn't start the fire bullshit?
Try a history class sometime. First of all, Nero wasn't in Rome at the time the fire started. Secondly, all the supposed motives for Nero starting the fire are nonsense, and are unsupported by any evidence or testimonies which is unusual for these historians (probably because they said it based on hearsay and/or personal dislike of Nero). Third, it's common knowledge that Nero was the victim of not only Senate propaganda, but also Christian propaganda that deliberately sought to make him out to be literally Satan which is at odds with everything we know about Nero.
>>
>>160934334
Make her gay.
>>
>>160934295
>3 dicks and 1 vagina
That's a 75% gay scene you want there anon.
>>
>>160934352

I never said Nero was a good guy; just that being regarded as a bad Emperor / leader of a nation by history doesn't mean he was hated at the time.
>>
>>160934306
Because Nero shat out gold coins in his sleep. That doesn't mean he was in any way shape or form competent.

Any random schumck could toss out money to poorfags, and they'd all love him.
>>
>>160934214
Oh Jesus Christ, stop. The worst sin Nero can be accused of is poor management of the Senate and his generals. There are literally dozens of Emperors who did a worse job than him. Do you know why nobody ever talks about them? Because they ruled for like a year at the most and then got assassinated or overthrown.
>>
>>160934390
>Nero wasn't in Rome at the time the fire started.
Yeah, because the only way to start a fire is to go out in the streets of Rome with a lighter. Great evidence.

>Secondly, all the supposed motives for Nero starting the fire are nonsense
Yeah, that's the fucking point. He started the fire for nonsense reasons.

>are unsupported by any evidence or testimonies which is unusual for these historians
Testimonies against Nero? You know this is the man who randomly accused people for the fire and then burned them alive, right? Testifying against him is what everyone wanted to do.
>>
>>160934501
>I never said Nero was a good guy
You just agreed with a post that called him a good guy.
>>
>>160934352
Post yfw they make Hitler secretly a girl all along and make her summonable in FGO.
>>
The real question is if Mother Harlot Nero will actually be a good character. I also think the butthurt wouldn't be so extreme if they release Amaterasu-Tamamo as an equivalent. Nero a shit though, never have I seen such thorough character assassination like in Septem and Extella
>>
>>160934258
He did earn himself quite a bit of the blame for the eradication of the Julio-Claudian dynasty, so while he may not have brought about the fall of Rome, he was instrumental in the downfall of his family as a political institution. By the end of his life there wasn't many of his relatives left to succeed him, and that was in no small part his fault.
>>
>>160934595
>so while he may not have brought about the fall of Rome, he was instrumental in the downfall of his family as a political institution.
We had emperors for another 1200 years
>>
>>160934506
He also blocked numerous legislations of the Senate that would impose harsh penalties and ridiculous tax rates on the commoners, vetoed laws that would have made it so freedmen could have their freedom revoked on a whim by their former masters, and did plenty of other things in favor of the lower classes.
>>160934555
>Yeah, because the only way to start a fire is to go out in the streets of Rome with a lighter. Great evidence.
Sorry, did you have an argument here or are you just being butthurt for the sake of it now?
>Yeah, that's the fucking point. He started the fire for nonsense reasons.
Yeah, no. The mere fact that no historians could agree on the motive is all the proof you need that they're just wildly speculating and making shit up.
>Testimonies against Nero? You know this is the man who randomly accused people for the fire and then burned them alive, right? Testifying against him is what everyone wanted to do.
Hardly. Not only is what you're saying not something that actually happened, Nero's popularity endured for decades after his death as shown by the numerous imitators that claimed to be Nero to gain instant support from both the masses and his former generals.
>>
>>160934595
Honestly, if anyone should be blamed for that, it probably shouldn't be Nero. Nero wasn't even supposed to be the heir to the throne in the first place, it's just that the line basically died out and he was all that was left of it.
>>
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>Genuine historical debate over this wonderful character
>>
>>160934641
You're gonna have to explain what your point is and how exactly it relates to the post your replied to.
>>
>>160934577
I agreed with a post that said
>the real Nero wasn't a bad guy himself
which is rather different from outright saying he was a "good guy"
Nero was probably a bit paranoid (which kinda came with being Emperor) and possibly something of a crackpot after Agrippina's death for whatever reason.
But Nero also wanted to be loved and so he tried to do that through his public works, even if that didn't always go well.

>>160934900
Personally I enjoy debates like this.
>>
>>160934838
I have to wonder why didn't he have any kids to pass things on to, was he just impotent or something?
>>
Giving back Arthur's REAL gender... making him a true MOTHERFUCKING KING
>>
>>160935042
>wanting a cuck who actually was born and raised with a cock, yet still couldn't satisfy his wife
>>
>>160935003
He did have a daughter, but she died mere months after birth as children were wont to do in those times. This really fucked him up badly, apparently.
>>
>>160934769
>Sorry, did you have an argument here or are you just being butthurt for the sake of it now?
Oh, sorry. Maybe sarcasm was too much for you to understand. I meant to say that he can have started the fire without being in Rome. That was a response to your defense for him. I'm presenting a counter-argument to your argument. Does this clear it up for you?

>Yeah, no. The mere fact that no historians could agree on the motive is all the proof you need that they're just wildly speculating and making shit up.
But there are records. That's more backing up my claims than what you've got with yours. Sure, they can't all agree on every single point, because they were written at different points in time, and pretty much no investigation was done on the fire as Nero just made Christians his scapegoat and blamed them for fire, as he began burning them alive.

>Not only is what you're saying not something that actually happened
Okay, this is where I draw the line. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about, do you? I'd rather lose an argument with an ignorant fucking retard like you that's just blowing gas out of his ass than waste more time here.

>Nero's popularity endured for decades
Yeah, it probably did. I'm talking about the shit he pulled, not his popularity. Or rather, I was. Fuck you, I'm done.
>>
>>160935003
He had a daughter, but she died of illness only a few months after she was born. He had cousins, nieces, aunts, uncles, in-laws, and such, but many of them were killed, exiled, or simply pushed away from the power, either by Nero or one of his predecessors.
>>
>>160935003

Well Poppaea (Nero's second wife) gave birth to a daughter who died due to illness at 3 months, and Poppaea died before the second child was born.

Depending on who you believe (either the historical Roman sources like Tacitus or the modern historians who question those sources), Nero either kicked Poppaea to death while she was pregnant or she died in childbirth.
>>
>>160934280
>Shirou
>Average
>No special power
Wew
>>
>>160935400
He's pretty average as a person, and his power is 100% useless until he becomes the bone of his sword. All the girls wanted him before he shifted into maximum overdrive.
>>
>>160935121
>Oh, sorry. Maybe sarcasm was too much for you to understand. I meant to say that he can have started the fire without being in Rome. That was a response to your defense for him. I'm presenting a counter-argument to your argument. Does this clear it up for you?
Okay. How? How could have started the fire without being in Rome? I'm waiting. Please, do explain. This ought to be good.
>But there are records. That's more backing up my claims than what you've got with yours. Sure, they can't all agree on every single point, because they were written at different points in time, and pretty much no investigation was done on the fire as Nero just made Christians his scapegoat and blamed them for fire, as he began burning them alive.
A record's existence and its veracity are not the same, and the lack of cohesion in these records is pretty obvious proof that the people writing them were going off of hearsay and rumor rather than any hard evidence. This is a big thing that all historians look for in records because a lack of agreement in them is a big indicator of untrustworthiness about the subject matter. These records are not even primary sources: the earliest were written 50 years after Nero's death.
>>
>>160935121
>You have no fucking clue what you're talking about, do you? I'd rather lose an argument with an ignorant fucking retard like you that's just blowing gas out of his ass than waste more time here.
Given that a reasonable doubt has been cast on the matter even being Christians being persecuted but rather cultists of Isis due to the Cult of Isis being much more prevalent and considering dogs unclean, whereas Christians were still a very tiny cult at the time and hardly well known enough to blame such things on, and even Suetonius claims they were burnt not for blaming them for the fire but because Nero was worried about the size and influence of the cult at the time, yeah, there's enough reasonable doubt on the matter to consider it extremely questionable.
>Yeah, it probably did. I'm talking about the shit he pulled, not his popularity. Or rather, I was. Fuck you, I'm done.
You were talking about how 'everyone' wanted to testify against him, yet somehow there are no testimonies against him preserved in these historical records despite the fact that there should be numerous ones if you are right and he was so despised. The fact that the only records of Nero's life that have survived have been the negative ones, and not the positive ones that we know for a fact were also written about him, pretty much guarantees that we have to take every bad thing said about him with a grain of salt.
>>
>>160935589
Are you serious asking how an emperor could make something happen without being present?
>>
>>160935549
>All the girls wanted him before he shifted into maximum overdrive.

Nah, only Sakura really wanted to get with Shirou before he became more of a mage.

With Saber in the Fate route her wanting Shirou gradually developed at the same time his powers were being realized. If anything Saber and Shirou outright reject each other initially because they are both following the same ideals of trying to sacrifice themselves for a greater good, but then come to understand why they are both like that.

With Rin she just got flustered from compliments because tsun tsun dere dere, but again the love developed at the same time as the powers were. Again, Rin pretty much hates Shirou's ideals initially and still kinda does at the end of UBW, even as falls in love with Shirou.
>>
>>160935830
>but again the love developed at the same time as the powers were

She was heartbroken when she found him dead in the prologue. She even says "hy did it have to be you?" She wanted the bone of his sword even before he was a participant in the HGW.
>>
>>160935747
You'd better have some pretty strong evidence to back up the claim that Nero got someone else to start the fire for him, since he did in fact take extreme measures to clean up the mess and devastation, even paying for relief efforts out of his own treasury and reducing the silver in Roman currency to help finance reconstruction. In fact it is also claimed by Tacitus that he personally searched the destroyed quarters, sometimes without bodyguards, to try and find survivors. So what is his motive for starting the fire, and how does he convince someone to do it for him?
>>
>>160935830
I think you need to re-read Fate/stay night. Rin was attracted to Shirou for a long time, but never made a move because she knew Sakura had a thing for him as well. It's revealed that Rin was attracted to Shirou ever since she saw him trying to do a high jump over and over, even though it was clearly impossible for him at the time.

Shirou and Saber never rejected each other. Shirou was mesmerized by Saber from the moment he saw her, and Saber, for the most part, thought positively of Shirou, though she was exasperated by his naiveté at times. Saber realizes that Shirou's pretty similar to her fairly early on; she doesn't fully realize the differences until after Shirou rejects Kotomine's offer.
>>
This entire argument here was retarded on a whole new level. I get it. You have to be skeptical about these things. But when it comes to stuff like this, unless you have definitive proof that disproves the historical records, you have to believe those records. They're the only, and thus, the best evidence you have. And without evidence, you can't form a proper argument. You can try and make form a theory, but without evidence, that's just your imagination.

>>160935589
A lack of cohesion regarding Nero's motives is BARELY circumstantial evidence, much less definitive proof. And even then, anon, there was cohesion. All but one record of that event state Nero did it. That's cohesion. The only thing that was slightly inconsistent was Nero's motive, and that's understandable as that part was pure speculation. They could not outright ask Nero why he did it. All they could do is look at why he would do it. So if it's cohesion you're looking for, you have that.
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