Who the fuck wrote this shit? What was Kyoani thinking green

Some edgy teenager probably.

>>156159308
Ok, I'll bite.

What anime do you personally think has great dialogue?

>>156159308
i almost want to rewatch Hyouka to screencap these now

It's because you chose to not engage with the show that you claim the writing is bad and can't even bring to mind all the visual storytelling that goes on at every frame. Hyouka is a production that undercuts a dialectic between the theatrical and mundane. The main thematic motif of the show is an Evangelion-esque study of relationships and empathy depicting subjective experience above all else, perhaps the reason for the Bach music parallel. It uses abstract Shinbo-esque colors, paper cutouts, experimental angle shots, spatial layout designs, meticulous character acting and long lasting continuity of quirks to establish consistence of performance, framing motion specifically tied to the edge of the frame and BGs to elucidate its fullness of vision of space. One shot of Mayaka's bedroom had more visual storytelling and characterization than the entirety of the Haruhi series.

>>156159440
Lucky Star.

>>156159465
So this is pasta now?
What a way to tarnish Hyoukafags reputation forever.

>>156159440
Kemono friends

>>156159465
this is the new pasta for whenever hyoukafags are around

>>156159440
Rakugo.

>>156159465
Are you one of those Madara-posters?

and I'm not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara posters...

>>156159440
Aria "muh embarrassing remarks are prohibited
Uchouten Kazoku "muh frog in a well, muh idiot blood"
Tatami Galaxy "muh rose colored campus"
Monogatari "muh oops I bit my tongue"
Utena "muh end of the world"
Evangelion "muh I mustn't run away"
Ojamajo Doremi "muh I'm the world's unluckiest pretty girl"
Ping Pong "muh hero, muh robot"
Jin-roh "muh red riding hood"

>>156159440
Sangatsu

>>156159544
HAHAHAHAHA

KIKU CAME IN KONATSU BRAVO FUJOSHITS

>>156159568
Didn't you listen? You have to change Evangelion to "muhstn't run away".

>SHAFT is a joke now
When their 3 latest Kizu films look better than most new shit out there ? Why the fuck you lyin.mp3

>>156159440
The Tatami Galaxy.

>>156159440
Hibike Euphonium

>>156159606
They look like shit, even the 3D looks very bad.

Araragi is what, 16/17? Of course he wants to put his dick in everything. I would want to in his position, too.

>>156159465
I'd laugh, but I'm too scared someone might take that seriously.

am i losing my mind or are you idiots just retarded, i swear to fuck i've seen most of these exact replies in a previous thread

i thought this was a hyouka thread, not an endless 8 thread

>>156159568
All of these are great apart from Evangelion.

NGE has great characterization but the dialogue sucks donkey balls

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>>156159440
Great Teacher Onizuka
Haruhi
Eden of the East
Monster (official trad no fansub)
Lucky Star

Post the "Conserving Energy Is What You Would Be, Oreki" webm.

>>156159690
>Monogatari
>great dialogue
Good lord how little literature you've read to think that show is anything beyond bottom of the barrel trash.

i would like to know when was it that it became reasonable to expect so much of anime
it's like it now has an obligation with being more than just fucking cartoons
i'd like to think it's just the brainless kids of the new generation but idk man ijdk

>>156159690
Dialogue is what makes most of the characterization. How can one be bad and the other good?

>>156159465

Hyouka a shit.

>>156159759
the thing about monogatari fans is that they think lots of dialogue is good dialogue. like how out of digging trash, you might get something valuable

>>156159766
That's what people that don't watch exclusively Kyoanishit always expected.

>Nothing I've said can be considered a strawman
>the rest of the post is nothing but strawmen
Brilliant. Just so you know, Haruhi is one of my all times favorites.
>the care in presentation is what make certain Kyoani works so ambitious in storytelling
Oh, I didn't forget the Visual Storytelling meme.

I fucking hate GayAni, it's all boring slice of life shit that only faggots and liberals enjoy. Good thing there's some MANIME this season like Attack on Titan and My Hero Academia.

>>156159778
>Dialogue is what makes most of the characterization.
Wrong.

>>156159778
Anime is a visual medium so most characterization has to be established through animation and direction. If an anime doesn't do this it's most likely trash.

>>156159835
BOOYAH
O
O
Y
A
H

>>156159778
characterization is information that can be conveyed by dialogues or visual elements
even if dialogues properly convey characterization, they can horribly fail at other things like feeling natural, pacing, overusing catchphrases and shit like that

>>156159841
>>156159848
Pretty sure dialogue is still what makes most of the characterization.

PW was mediocre but harmless. The only KyoAni show that actually pissed me off was Kyoukai no Asspull.

Still, I think that K-On is a legitimate masterpiece and Hyouka, Nichijou, and a few others are very good.

>>156159848
So Hyouka that constantly employs redundant exposition and monologue is trash.
Got it.

>>156159893
>Pretty sure dialogue is still what makes most of the characterization.
Learn the meaning of characterization and then come back, you're only embarrassing yourself.

>>156159848
>>156159841
>muh show dont tell meme

Dialogue is an integral part of characterization, at least if you want to have deep and complex characters, try find me a good silent film with better characterization than a Tarantino movie, you cant. Visuals alone are too abstract to convey the same level of detail and information. Visuals can enhance characterization, but they cannot carry it alone.

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What's going on?

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Hyouka is just a poor man's Haruhi.

>>156159508
>>156159531
>>156159549
>>156159685
None of you can prove the so called pasta wrong. Just face it, you're simply not intelligent enough to get it.

>>156159990
>try find me a good silent film with better characterization than a Tarantino movie, you cant
Drive

>>156159993
>Hyouka is just like Haruhi because they are both about high school clubs and Oreki and Kyon are similar.
Do you even process what anime is about past it's surface level?

>>156159978
No that's Haruhi

>>156159995
I'd do it, but I prefer conserving my energy.

>>156159990
>Tarantino
Stopped reading there. you clearly know shit about any sort of fictitious art. Here's a couple of board suggestion for someone like you:

>>>/mu/
>>>/sp/
>>>/out/

>>156159990
The Passion of Joan of Arc and thousands of others

Also Tarantino is one of the worst directors ever

>>156159982
>y-you don't know what you're talking about
That's a poor fallacy. You haven't told what was wrong or why characterization was something else, you just claimed it was wrong. Come back when you have something else than one-line posts.

>>156159805
The conversations in Monogatari are at least involving and interesting by anime standards bro

I really need to give Nichijou a rewatch. I don't understand why it's liked so much when its flaws outweigh the positives.

>>156160085
Tarantino is literally the best dialogue director ever. Pulp Fiction shits on your opinion.

>>156159990
>Visuals can enhance characterization, but they cannot carry it alone.
Angel's Egg

Visual wise Gatari wins hard, Hyouka has really nice shots here and there but overall it's plays out like a normal anime with good production. Original gatari had that "shaft charm" on almost every shot (probably because they had to be interesting with their poor production values).

Stories is almost unfair because all monogataris mysteries deal with the supenatural, that while in itself is not inherently more intriguing, when compared with Hyouka WAY mundane problems it's clear which you are most likely to be invested in.

Character wise the female hyouka cast is boring while the male is decent, monogatari is all around more interesting/fun with exception of snake.

Gatari for me.

You fags are simply databases who can't form your own thoughts

>>156160036
>Haruhi
>redundant exposition
No. You have about two or three exposition parts and they all flow much better than whatever Hyouka's exposition is.

Compare Kyon's santa opening to Oreki and gayfriend discussing databases.

>>156160177
had very basic and one dimensional characters. Thanks for proving me right.

>>156160036
No that's Hyouka
>>156155736

>>156160087
Characterization is basically giving traits based on a wide spectrum of things to a character throughout the story. If you really think that can only be achieved mainly by dialogue you're either a troll or really ignorant because even in anime there's a wide array of example of characterization where there's little to none dialogue involved with said character.

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>>156160184
>Visual wise Gatari wins hard
Monogatari has some of the most pretentious direction I've seen in any visual media.

It's like Nicolas Winding Refn on steroids.

Now even shit tier studios like deen can outsell kyoani with minimal effort, what went so wrong bros?

>>156160206
The entirety of Haruhi is exposition, and terrible exposition at that. Obnoxious and tedious monologue after monologue after monologue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpK5dXw0WzI

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Does Hibike have good dialogue?

>>156160266

Are half of the posts here literally copied from the other KyoAni thread?

Also, it's because KonoSuba panders to the lowest common denominator. Pretty easy.

>>156160307
No

>>156160307
Yes

>>156160307
no

>>156160264
>pretentious direction
this is not a real criticism

>>156160266
phantom sales and meme dragon were terrible for starters, you cant slap the kyoani brand on a polished turd and expect sales just because.

>>156160307
The manga does.

>>156159489
nonironically this

>>156160292
Proof Tarantino is a terrible director. Like Monogatari he pretends that having a large cast of characters makes the same narration being spouted different and unique and interesting. The fact is every character in Monogatari and Tarantino films narrate the same way, just with a different voice and physical appearance. It's a deception.

>>156160292
>>>/tv/
This video has nothing to do with anime

>>156160229
>If you really think that can only
Never said that.
But it is mostly conveyed by dialogue which is the most used way to represent more abstract concepts which are usually the points of interest of the show. Visuals can and do work, but they're almost never to do most of the characterization job because it'd be a convoluted solution and wouldn't add much. In most cases, visuals work on top of dialogues which provide solid context and informations. Or at least that's how I see it.

Yeah, it raped my patience. Seriously, why the fuck do you guys like this crap really? I can understand liking some dumb shit that's at least fun, I can understand liking some slow show that's actually well written but fucking Hyouka spent an entire episode with those dumbfucks trying to understand why the teacher was angry.

Hell not even the cases are really dumb but the way they "resolve" them is also retarded

>>156160307
It's okay, MUCH better than Hyouka's.
Characterization is also far superior, Kumiko makes Oreki feel like a joke character.

Hyouka aged like milk in terms of dialogue

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Did K-On have good dialogue?

To barely scratch the surface:
Kirito doesn't have any logic to his actions. He has no reasons for being the way he is other than the author's need to create a childishly perfect character who 12yos can idolise. There's no reasoning behind why he's so impossibly better at SAO than anyone else, why every girl he meets falls in love with him, why he suddenly has enough technical skill and knowledge to hack into SAO itself and change the rules of the game when it's conveniant for the plot (not to mention why he doesn't just do that at the very start and break everyone out of it), etc etc. What we're informed of about his charcter through exposition completely contradicts what we are shown in the story itself. He's meant to have a perfect, lovey dovey relationship with Asuna, yet they never tell each other anything important, barely interact when they're with each other, and are perfectly willing to let each other be put into mortal danger when it's, again, conveniant for the plot. The parts of his character that COULD be interesting (his PTSD-like obsession with VR technology, his drive to fully resurrect his AI daughteru) are never expanded upon more than them simply existing and are thus squandered. The list of problems with his character goes on and on.

But none of it relates to him being "unrealistic". It relates to him not following the logic of the story itself. If he had proper reasons behind why he acted in crazy ways and did seemingly impossible stuff, he could be fine. If any of the things related to him were expanded upon, he could also possibly be interesting, but left as barebones as they are, he's boring and unsatisfying to watch. I don't like Hyouka that much and I by no means think it has masterfully written characters. But they make sense in the context of the story through having reasoning behind their actions, and are at least set up to be interesting, even if you don't find them so. Comparing them to Kirito is massive overkill.

>>156159440
Uchouten Kazoku

>>156160378
Yes it is.

Fast paced cuts, over-saturated meaningless visuals and awkward interspersing of character's thoughts is the definition of pretentious.

>>156160291
There's barely any exposition in Haruhi. When, say, Kyon explains something about Haruhi, he has a reason to (other than "there you go watcher :^)" ). It's much more natural and flow a lot more nicely.

>>156160507
muh frog in a well, muh idiot blood, muh benten

I've never been closer to dropping a show than with PW. Good thing I'm a completionist.

>>156160383

1. Maidragon was actually good and harkened back to what KyoAni did right in shows like K-On. It was also the third best-selling anime of the season even without considering the KyoAni store, and had more fanart than any show besides Kemono Friends.

2. Terrible anime sell well all the time.

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>>156160464
Yes.

>>156160532
muh muhmeme

>>156160307
Only when they're not doing cheap drama

Yeah the reaction of boredom by how much he overuses the slow motion head turn, close up to eyes, close up to mouth, full body pan combo. Truly a genius

>>156160434
>mostly
>adverb
>"as regards the greater part or number."
>"used to say that a statement you are making is true or correct at most times or that it describes a usual situation or condition"

If you use the word "mostly" you're only narrowing it down to dialogue, which is stupid, which goes against many visual and literacy principles. So yeah, educate yourself.

Real talk why has Haruhi aged like milk? Nothing about the show is watchable nowadays.

>>156159440
Katanagatari

>/a/utists having any kind of idea what realistic dialogue is

I expected this thread to be shit just by looking at the title, but jesus christ guys, you didn't have to exceed my expectations by this much.

>>156160624
>"as regards the greater part or number."
>you're only narrowing it down to dialogue
????
Before telling other to educate themselves, read your own post.

>>156160548
>It was also the third best-selling anime of the season even without considering the KyoAni store
Konosuba, Marginal Kiss, GabDro, Youjo Senki, LWA, and Kemono sold more

this studio war schlock is pathetic
vermin scum

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Are Hyouka threads the new Madoka threads?

>>156160685
nay son S1 is still a masterpiece and Disappearance Kyoani's magnum opus.

>>156160685
Looks like shit and most of the content is what you'd find in any LN nowadays.

>>156160523
Actually it comes off as wink-faced, pedantic, chuuni, meandering, LN-ish and otaku pandering as fuck.

>>156160717
Also Yowapedal, Maidragon will be like the 10th "best" selling anime of winter once all shows come out.

monogatari is awful garbage
hyouka is audiovisual ambien

>>156160779
Literally a string of buzzwords. Funny how Hyouka criticists provide dozens of examples but Hyoukafags can only respond with blurry shit.

>>156159440

Crayon Shin-chan

>>156159308
>Who the fuck wrote this shit?
A translator

>It's yet another KyoAni vs SHAFT thread

yay?

>>156160685
Melancholy I through VI(I) is fantastic and easily the best there is of Haruhi to offer. A few of the episodic stuff was fun like Live Alive or the the computer club one. Fuck the mystery shit and fuck Someday in the Rain. Someday in the Rain is the worst fucking episode of anime of all time.

>>156160830
>what I agree with is not a buzzword!
>what I disagree with is a buzzword!

>>156160709
Nice counter-argument.

>>156160936
>hating iyashikei

>>156160830

>dozens of examples
>look how much he says database!

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>>156160842

Hyouka is shit, if I wanted to sleep I would take pills.

>>156160943
>look, I made a claim
>that claim is generic and stupid and you haven't provided anything to support it other than the use of interchangeable words
>s-stop calling my buzzwords buzzwords

Chunibyo: Not flop
Tamako Market: Flop
Free: Not flop
Kyoukai no Kanata: Flop
Amagi: Flop
Euphonium: Flop
Phantom World: Flop

What are they going to do with all these flops and no cash cow?

>>156160717

muh stalker threads that exclude 80% of actual kyoani sales

>>156161063
You forgot

memedragon: Flop

Nobody remembers Lucky Star
TTGL is a classic that is still talked about to this day

>>156161063
Euphonium 1 sold 8k average and S2 looks like it will do 6k average.

>>156160936
Someday in the Rain is actually one of the best episodes. Puts the characters lives in a new perspective while showing an important under arching story. It's pretty much Disappearance in 20 minutes.

>>156161063
Prestigious movies are their cash cow now. Hibike recap and Koe no Katachi made a shitload of money

>>156161063

>source: my asshole

Why do people want the only anime studio with a good work culture to fail?

Why don't they hire better directos
Yamada is the only one who can turn shit into gold
everything else has been a direct adaptation carried by the animation team not really the director

>>156161054
>spams zzz and screenshots of three catchphrases
>this is proof the show is badly written
>not a buzzword

>x aged like milk
i laugh out loud every time i read this shit
what the fuck? didn't think this place could get more retarded

Am I the only one who genuinely thinks that Amagi is the only good show to come out of post-Hyouka Kyoani? They need go back to being a buddies with Kadokawa and stop making mediocre to shitty adaptions of their own mediocre material.

>>156161228
how is that retarded?

Obsessed KyoAni haters need to go back.

>>>/v/
>>>/tv/
>>>/pol/

The only good anime Kyoani has ever made is Haruhi and Hyouka, everything else is just tastless moeshit/fujo/yuri pandering
I'm glad Japan is not buying their shit anymore(free movie flop and now phantom world)

>>156161226
>literally tens of screenshots of webms
>said catchphrases are 50% of some characters' dialogues (Chitanda is almost only defined by CURIOUS)

>>156159440
t. EOP basing dialogue off of english SUBTITLES.

>>156159465
Flowery language but the English is poor and nothing is really said. 4/10, not a good pasta, but salvageable with a bit of work.

>>156161228
Everyone unanimously agrees Haruhi has aged like milk though. The air of nostalgia is gone and we see it for what it is, aimless LN tripe with mediocre visuals considering the studio involved.

>>156161302

>it's only pandering when it's to a demographic that isn't me

KyoAni leans far less on pandering than other studios. There's a general culture towards respecting their characters.

>>156161313
This is some delusion.

>>156161228
Aria aged like garbage, Princess Tutu aged like garbage, Kino's journey aged like garbage, Haibane Renmei aged like garbage :)

>>156161049
You might enjoy pills too much and become addicted. No chance of that with Hyouka.

>>156159693
>Monster (official trad no fansub)
What?

>>156159440
Eva, episodes 1 and 2 especially

>>156161134
I know you are false flagging but there are people who believe the KyoAni shop is actually relevant. If their shop was actually that succesful you would expect them to release the numbers publicly. The company releases their financial data for private investors to see, confirming their shop success would only help them in getting more companies involved in their production committees. We know they arent doing that well with the shop and LN label since they are so secretive about it, as far as their own shows go, it is always PC, Lantis and ABC Asahi giving them a hand, no new investors chime in.

>>156161355
The same way everyone unanimously agrees Hyouka is only good as sleeping pills, right?

kyoanus fags talking about sales in a season where a Deen anime is selling four times more than a kyoanus show is just laughable.

>>156161260
>>156161302
Why is this recent influx of Hyouka fans here and where did they come from? Literally no one spoke about it apart from some random mention in KyoAni threads for years until now. And this is someone who created the weekly Hyouka threads when it was aired.

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>>156161260
Agreed.
It was funny like shit like Maidragon and Phantom Shit could never hope to be and didn't have the pretense of KnK or Hibike.
A solid 7/10.

>>156161378
Correct, and?

>>156161378
Wouldn't garbage age pretty well?

PW is a 7 that gets unnecessary hate for being a KyoAni school battle harem.

What does /a/ know about """"good"""" dialogue anyway?

Since when did you guys go outside let alone exchange dialogue with someone.

>>156161463

It started with one guy shilling his hatred of the dialogue.

>>156161487

Meh, more like 5-6 range. Second-weakest KyoAni show after KnK but average at worst.

>>156161378
Every singles early 2000s TV anime aged like garbage. You had masterpieces of digital animation like My Neighbors The Yamadas and FLCL then we have ugly shit like Haibane Renmei and Kino's Journey. Sad the transition to digital animation killed many potentially good shows.

>>156161559
Good dialogue does not need to be realistic, in fact most of the time good dialogue is not realistic.

He's right though. Euphonium is forgettable trash, except for the quality of animation. I was reading KyoAni actually bought the IP, that's why they put so much effort into it, but lets be sindcere here: It's forgettable at best, and it was a flop.

>>156161260
Amagi just looks like a failed version of Maid Dragon now

>>156161611
>Good dialogue does not need to be realistic, in fact most of the time good dialogue is not realistic.
I bet you also like Kafka unironically.

>>156161599
I wouldn't say all of them.

No KyoAni flop show to make fun of this season. What am I going to do now?

>>156161650
And I bet you like dicks ironically but still suck them for money just like your mom.

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>>156161599
>Haibane Renmei and Kino's Journey are shit
>Hyouka and Phantom World are great and timeless because they are well polished turds
Nu-Kyoanifags in a nutshell.

it was kyoani hubris after k-on, hyouka, and particularly chuunibyou.
they thought they had gotten good enough at making original episodes that they were flop proof. and made an entirely original anime they wrote themselves.
they had taken series with middling or crap source material and seemingly elevated them or fleshed them out by adding original material, and had too much success in the process. this show brought them back to earth a bit, although they are still ambitious and still trust themselves in their original writing and keep doing it every series.

>>156161565

K-On!!: 10/10
Nichijou: 9/10
Hyouka: 8/10
Chuunibyou: 7/10
Tamako Market: 7/10
Kyoukai no Kanata: 5/10
Amagi Brilliant Park: 7/10
Chuunibyou S2: 5/10
Hibike Euphonium: 8/10
Phantom World: 6/10
Hibike Euphonium 2: 8/10
Maidragon: 8/10

What does this make me?

>>156161684
Struck a nerve there, tryhard edgy-kun?

>>156161644
Why unlike Maid Dragon was it actually funny then?

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>mfw Oreki conserves energy while Mayaka defends a fanfiction and Database-kun gets buttmad because he can't solve mysteries because he literally cannot make conclusions

>>156160464
Well it felt realistic like how actual teenage girls would behave but was it engaging? Not really.

>>156161807
>K-On!!: 10/10
>Nichijou: 9/10
>Hyouka: 8/10
>Chuunibyou: 4/10
>Tamako Market: 6/10
>Kyoukai no Kanata: 5/10
>Amagi Brilliant Park: 6/10
>Chuunibyou S2: 5/10
>Hibike Euphonium: 8/10
>Phantom World: 3/10
>Hibike Euphonium 2: 7/10
>Maidragon: 7/10

Oreki is literally rеddit-mаn of 2012

>>156161807
you lack good judgement

"NONE MOE ANIMATION DID NOT SELL WELL = JAPANESE INDUSTRY SUCKS!"

"Good show never sell well, thus Nichijou is a good show!"

"I will become Kyoani's loyal fan, because they sacrificed Moe for the sake of creating good show!!'

"Sales is not a indication of reputation of Kyoani!"

What a twisted logics. IF SERIES WON'T SELL, IT MEANS NOTHING. Shit animation leads financial failure, and it leads to another shit animation. That's how it is. Kyoani lost its reputation by creating pretentious series that does not match with exaggerated marketing. Especially for them, even one failure is risky knowing how their business goes on. (They barely creates more than a single series in a year.) If you are particular fan of certain studio, those comments are the WORST way to support it.

Kadokawa is a bigger idiot, anyway. They trusted Kyoani way too much. Foolish. So foolish.

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>>156161852
but was it engaging? Not really

>>156160464
>fun things are fun hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
>good dialogue

No

>>156161463
twitter

Hyouka has zero humour, it's not fun or even "fun".

Hyouka is a masterpiece. Sorry that you don't get it

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>>156161917

I hate all of you so much.

>>156160685
Because the only thing going for it is the concept of Haruhi being god. Nothing else about the show is interesting because it's the same old school shit and tropes that every other fucking series has.

>>156161931
Fuck off, it had smart humor. Sorry you don't get it

The episode has almost no interaction between Hotaru and Chitanda and the litte interaction they do have shows how little chemistry they have and how undeveloped their relationship is. The symbolic stuff is nice, but it doesn't really matter when the relationship behind it is so flimsy and uncompelling.

Hyouka is good, but a bit a dull. Ignore the shit posters

they won't since KA has been losing its touch.
they became more high production values but less creative. they will never make something like nichijou or hyouka again.

>>156162021
Wasn´t that the point? Oreki barely knows her that´s something he thinks about by the end of the show. Hell, the guy realizes he actually likes her in the very last scene of the show

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>>156161807
Not bad. But get a load of this

you're just butthurt because i'm spot on.

tamako was very conventional and average, except for that one great scene, the confession scene.
in hibike their relationship might have been important, but the way they portrayed it made it look more like yuri rather than what you said, friends being inspired by each other. it distracted from the core story. it's like they didn't believe in the script and felt the need to "spice it up" like this.

that being said, my main point is while they're good, they don't stand up to kyoani's best.

I feel like Hyouka would have worked a lot better if Mayaka and Satoshi were removed entirely. They really contributed nothing to the show and considering it was only 1 cour I felt like it would have been more interesting if it was just Chitanda and Oreki. Then they could have maybe developed a much more meaningful relationship and had their characters explored more.

>>156162101
They need backing from someone as big as Kadokawa to take such creative risks. Right now they play it safe with adapting their novels, they may not sell much but at least most of the money goes to them.

I like Hyouka more than Hibike overall but I like Hibike characters more since they have more depth to them and develop more. Out of all the characters in Hyouka Mayaka was the most interesting for me. Oreki development was very obvious from the beginning but I still enjoyed it.

I like Hyouka more because the mysteries were actually entertaining, the pacing and arc/episodic format was more to my liking and as far as art and animation goes it was just better.

Also to that retard complaining about Oreki/Chitanda relationship being underdeveloped is right, but that was the point of the last episode, Oreki just starts realizing he likes Chitanda, and she opens up more to him right there, their relationship was nothing more than acquaintances before the last episode. You're basically complaining about cheese being too cheesy.

>>156162101
Nichijou and Hyouka were just Ishihara and Takemoto trying too hard to top K-On

Literally how. Kumiko is just a watered down Oreki, Reina is a boring Chitanda, and the rest of the band are a bunch of bland drama whores.

>Oreki
>Kumiko
The protagonists who are intent on achieving just enough to get by.

>Chitanda
>Reina
The strange girl who shows up and turns their world upside down.

The moment Kumiko meets up with Reina again she becomes a sputtering idiot. It's not long after she's completely sucking up to Reina, following her up romantic vistas and suddenly working her ass off.

When Oreki meets Chitanda he treats her exactly as his character should: As a nuisance he needs to dodge. It's over the course of the entire show that we see Oreki go from 'gray' to 'colored'. There's nice gradual development there instead of instant face-fucking and worshiping.

That's not even getting into Mayaka and Satoshi who are leagues better than any character in Hibike.


Hibike might have an overall better story as it has a strong focus on a single goal, but the characters in Hyouka outshine the ones in Hibike so hard.

If you want good characters, you go for Hyouka. If you want a nice story and to be nostalgic about band you go for Hibike.

>>156162290
How do you make a non-boring Chitanda? You could pretty much replace her with a curious sign

>>156161766
I strongly believe Kino's Journey is the worst anime ever made. It's a collection of Aesop fable strawmans delivered through robotic characters without a single sense of humanity. The script is utter cringe, the themes are shallow and reductionist at best, the main character is a boring robot, the bike is annoying and obnoxious, the directing is bland, the colors are godawful, the lineart is disgusting, the ost is forgettable, the sound design is amateur and the execution itself is up there with the most self-important garbage works of fiction out there.

Are Hyouka actually just pretentious, or is this false flagging?

>>156162372
People pretend to like it because of muh nostalgia

Some studios use forced animation to draw audience. Other studios use plot for that cause. It's up to you what you think about the kind of audience that is easily entertained by eyecandy and don't seek for intelectual stimulus.

>>156162339
>When Oreki meets Chitanda he treats her exactly as his character should
And isnt Kumiko treating Reina as her character should? She is a very awkward girl after all. It is only when both are comfortable with each other when they start to develop their relationship, Im talking about Kumiko/Reina, Oreki and Chitanda never get that chance to develop since >>156162245 >>156162137

Im not the one youre replying to but the pacing of the development and characterization in both shows is just diferent, none is better than the other.

Iwant kyoani to make something which is not high school moeshit. I mean I like my moeshit, but it would be nice seeing them try something else once in a while

>forced animation
>forced dialogue
>forced ""mysteries"
Hyouka was bottom of the barrel trash

It's 2016 already and some casuals still thinking that good animation makes anime a masterpiece over good plot or writing.

>>156162339
Kumiko and Reina make sense if it's yuri. But making them friends is what makes the writing weird and bad. Why the hell is Kumiko going crazy just for a potential friend? It only makes sense if Kumiko really wants that pussy

>>156162372
I don't care about Kino but talk shit about Haibane and I'll fuck you up.

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>ICE CREAM
>I SCREAM

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>>156159440
>>156159525
Came here to post this

>>156162404
Judge for yourself
>>156159465

>>156162516
They just did an office lady/lesbian family dynamics with comentaries on xenophobia, understanding and a thematic conclusion that teach us to live the moment aka carpe diem, show not too long ago.

Anime very often have better content than KyoAni. Not necessarily story in the sense of overarching plot or whatever, but the stuff in it is stuff that I enjoy, as opposed to KyoAni where the only interesting thing is how they deliver that stuff.

>>156162550
>forced "forced" meme
come up with actual arguements retard

>>156162563
I know you are sex depraved and everything but normal people dont think about sex 24/7

>>156162372
are you that one guy who always tries to force Kino's Journey vs. Mushishi?

Imagine being that guy who posts pasta, but no one replies to them

Grimgar, but you probably won't accept character development as story.

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>>156162563
If you watched just a minimal amount of anime you should know that the admiration of a girl for a sempai she respect can be borderline homoerotic.

>>156162696
>Imagine being that bot who posts pasta, but no one replies to them

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>>156162664
>normal people dont think about sex 24/7

I care more about what's happening in fucking IBO than I do about Phantom World.

>>156162648
The biggest sub-plot of the entire show was a fucking pun.

>>156162831
Very clever, dont you think?

Phantom World has better development.

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>>156161917

Haruchika. Literally anything had a better story than Phantom World this season.

>>156162762
That has nothing to do with what I said

Well, their sameface extends to other series of their studio. Hyouka, Chuuni, Amaburi, Euphonium and Musaigen characters look as if the same characters are in the new anime with different wigs

>>156162912
Yes it does.

What is the purpose of copy-pasting a bunch of totally unrelated posts from the archive

>>156162912
Not him but anime is somewhat constrained by tropes. Same gender senpai/kohai dynamics tend to be very homoerotic.

Just as superhero movies always need to end with some kind of giant blue laser threatening the world, you just have to accept anime is also built around tropes.

Kumiko and Reina being "gay" with each other may not make sense to a non-anime viewer, but their relationship is very normal to most of us seasoned anime connoseurs. And honestly I dont think it is bad for the most part, just a diferent take on portraying these types of relationships

>>156163053
>kyoani shitposting thread
It's all the same shit.

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>>156160464
This one is a good dialogue. Too bad /a/ wouldn't understand.

>>156163151
I want to lick Azusa´s butthole

>>156163151
Fuck off Komeiji.

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>>156163447
He's got to be dead by now..

>>156163598
He is living in Japan, became a mediocre english teacher and spends 20 hours a day on MAL.

Yo Hyouka is popular lately. It's great.

>>156162609
That's not pretentious, that's fact.

>>156163033
No, it doesn't

>>156163082
Have you watched Hibike? Kumiko and Reina don't have a senpai-kouhai dynamic, or any kind of typical anime relationship. It's depicted like a lesbian romance - except it isn't. That's the point, it's badly written compared to Oreki and Chitanda

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>>156163997
>Kumiko and Reina don't have a senpai-kouhai dynamic

Thats where you are (mostly) wrong kiddo. Reina teaches Kumiko to love music again, she waters her desire to umaku naritai, she advices Kumiko and encourages her to not give up. Their dynamic is more developed than your average senpai-kuohai trope, though. Hibike is basically a loosely adapted Hero's Journey

>>156164276
>Hibike is basically a loosely adapted Hero's Journey
Uh, practically every story follows the hero's journey at least in part.
It's less about being a conscious adaption and more about adhering to millennia old rules of storytelling.

>>156164276
>Their dynamic is more developed than your average senpai-kuohai trope, though
To the point where it doesn't really have anything to do with it. Hibike goes for a more "real" feeling in general, which includes being more "lesbian" than "yuri", which is why it gets weird. If it felt like a typical senpai-kouhai dynamic with yuri undertones, it might make sense, but since it feels like a lesbian romance (but isn't), Kumiko's behavior is nonsensical

>>156165252
>To the point where it doesn't really have anything to do with it.
He just explained how it does. Kumiko idolizes Reina's dedication to music to the point of gaining newfound passion and wanting to imitate her. That's the core of the trope.

>>156165373
And I just explained how it doesn't

>>156159568
I notice there's nothing in there for Madoka, because it's literally perfect.

>>156165560
No you didn't. The sempai/kouhai dynamic is still there and you have no arguments.

>>156159835
It's the /pol/stormshitters here who defend kyoanus the hardest.

>>156165776
Madoka has some of the worst characters and shittiest wooden dialogue ever seen in fiction.
Not having catchphrases is irrelevant.

>>156165776
Madoka is so forgettable that you can't even make fun of it.

>>156165776
Madoka is the Avatar of TV anime.

>>156160264
It's a fantasy that doesn't take itself seriously at all. None of its most diehard fans think it's anything more than the sum of its parts, but it's still fun to watch and listen to.

Meanwhile Hyouka and its web defense force sell it as a complex realistic bildungsroman when it sounds like a guy who hasn't met a teenager since he was one. It is the definition of pretension.

>>156165886
Exactly this.
People went batshit for it then but nowadays nobody can explain what was good about it or remember anything memorable.

>>156165781
Are you following the conversation? It started with someone saying that Kumiko and Reina's relationship makes sense to anime fans because the senpai-kouhai dynamic often has yuri undertones. He was obviously wrong and just being disingenuous, because their relationship feels nothing like that dynamic. Hibike in general tries to feel real and not anime-ish, and the relationship dynamic is completely different as a result. It can't be explained away by an unrelated anime trope. It can't be explained by anything because it's just badly written/directed

>>156160732
Will !Akemi show up in them too?

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>>156165998
This.

>>156159308
They wanted him to be the next Kyon.

>>156161063
They saw Madofags shitposting Yuki Yuna to death and decided they didn't want any of that.

Same reason Shaft won't release Prism Nana, even though Madoka is obviously their show.

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>>156159308
>he doesn't conserve his energy

>>156166058
And I pointed out that the dynamic is still there even if the characters have more going on about them, which you couldn't refute.
Or do you think that Hibike is the only anime that takes the trope and builds on it?

>>156165998
>Monogatari doesn't take itself seriously
This is the biggest joke I've read all day

>>156165998
>None of its most diehard fans think it's anything more than the sum of its parts
I take Monogatari stuff even more seriously than Hyouka, especially Kizu. The novels have quite a number of interesting literary threads to pull on if one cares to look.

Hyouka and the Monogataris are all great. The only reason to dislike Hyouka is if you are a child with no attention span. You don't have to like it, but disliking it proves one is intellectually inferior.

>>156165998
>It's a fantasy that doesn't take itself seriously at all. None of its most diehard fans think it's anything more than the sum of its parts

You are so retarded and out of touch

>>156166205
I have literally refuted it multiple times now. All I can tell you is to go rewatch Hibike and pay attention to the way it's written and directed, because it's nothing like any other anime

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>>156159440
Tomino gundam

>>156159440
Monogatari

>>156166279
>The only reason to dislike Hyouka is if you are a child with no attention span
And, you know, the shitty writing.
I'll add that defending the adaption of an apparently really poorly written young adult novel while taking about intellectual interiority feel surreal.

>>156166434
>shitty writing
Explain how the writing is shitty
What are the problems with it?

>>156166340
Where? You couldn't refute >>156165373 but you just keep saying that the dynamic is different despite not explaining why.

>>156159308
I stopped calling the show bad years ago. It's just not for me. The format is meant to reach a certain kind of viewer and I'm not one of those types.

Still, some of the best visual direction I've seen in some time.

>>156166434
>the shitty writing
?

>>156159440
bakemonogatari series is literally GOAT for dialog

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>>156166482
One webm speaks louder than a million words.

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>>156159440
Asking the important questions.

>>156159990
>try find me a good silent film with better characterization than a Tarantino movie
The Passion of Joan of Arc

>>156166673
What's wrong with it?

>>156166673
So you can't actually explain it at all

>>156166673
Could you expand on that? Give more examples?

>>156166674
>bald bitch looking sad for one hour and a half
Wow masterful characterization! Not that Tarantino's walking cartoons are any better.

>>156166513
Re-read my posts, rewatch the show, stop being disingenuous, etc.

>>156166804
Are you trying to conserve energy by not backing up your argument or something?

>>156166554
Haha. No.
And you can't even type correctly. What do you know about writing?

>>156166729
Not the person who posted that, but that's a pretty textbook case of a forced introduction. You have two characters who are already friends explicitly talking about things both of them already know. That's ignoring the fact that having a character with a motto for life is pretty lazy in and of itself.

>>156166729
>>156166748
>>156166749
The character behave like a living caricature. Further development doesn't salvage it when from the beginning he's a ridiculously exaggerated take on the lazy cynical guy trope that wouldn't work even in a comedy, but here wants to be taken dead seriously.
Further problem is the completely unnecessary, completely unnatural exposition. Here we have the characters explaining each others thing they already know for no reason other than not to make the viewer feel lost.
This is made even worse and more redundant by the fact that during the episode we can see his behaviour first hand, and if that still wasn't enough, his internal monologues again explain his philosophy.
A monument to lack of subtlety, exposition and redundancy. Feels made for an audience with attention deficit disorder.

>>156166827
I'm trying to conserve energy because I already made a foolproof argument. Now you just have to watch this and note how different it is from any anime trope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHFkRE6OFBw

>>156167104
Now I see. Reminds me of those
>Remember when we did X?
I don`t remember the initial monologue, but that probably could have entered there instead.

>>156167237
>I already made a foolproof argument.
Where?

>>156167104
>ridiculously exaggerated
He's pretty understated, actually. I had a similar mindset in high school and I know others who were the same.

>for no reason other than not to make the viewer feel lost.
Oreki launches into the topic because he's already been forced to join a club at that point.

Being subtle doesn't make something inherently good. Not being subtle doesn't make something inherently bad. The same can be said for realism in characters as well. As far as redundancy, it can just as well be called repetition.

I'd say it's a good thing to have the main character both show how exists and explain why he exists that way. It's especially important in Hyouka because Oreki doesn't have some kind of deep-seated reason, external circumstance, or traumatic background that drives his characterization. If that isn't explained, the audience might go looking to fill in such a reason for his introversion.

>>156165998
Then why does Hyouka capture adolescence more realistically than any other school anime of recent memories? It centers around myopia, awkwardness, becomes less romanticized and more down to earth as it progresses, has no climax but instead ends off with the characters on a formative note.

>>156167832
>>156167832

Migrate

>>156167926
Wha the fuck are you doing?

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>>156167807
>Oreki launches into the topic because he's already been forced to join a club at that point.
Not that guy, but if they are long time friends why say something obvious that both know?

I like your final argument. Yes, thank god he isn`t some tragic hero. He is just a teenager who doesn`t like responsibility.

>>156167807
>I had a similar mindset in high school and I know others who were the same.
Lots of people live like this in general. Very few have a specific motto that they rattle off when confronted about it. Most of them would probably tell you to fuck off.

>>156167926
Fuck off retard.

>>156167807
>He's pretty understated, actually. I had a similar mindset in high school and I know others who were the same.
There's being lazy and demotivated and there's literally trying to make less movements possible to conserve energy. He's a walking parody.
>Oreki launches into the topic because he's already been forced to join a club at that point.
Other than noticing the awkwardness of the scene, you should also ask yourself why the scene was included. Why do we need Oreki to explain is philosophy there instead of just seeing it first hand? No reason, it's nothing but redundant.
>Being subtle doesn't make something inherently good. Not being subtle doesn't make something inherently bad. The same can be said for realism in characters as well.
But in this case the aggressively exaggerated and unsubtle characterization is bad
>As far as redundancy, it can just as well be called repetition.
Why do we need the same concept shown and then repeated several times?
>I'd say it's a good thing to have the main character both show how exists and explain why he exists that way. It's especially important in Hyouka because Oreki doesn't have some kind of deep-seated reason, external circumstance, or traumatic background that drives his characterization. If that isn't explained, the audience might go looking to fill in such a reason for his introversion.
That could be easily conveyed through a casual attitude towards his laziness, without continuous expositions and monologues. Though that would be more easy without the absurdly dogmatic attitude of the character.

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>>156168306
>That could be easily conveyed through a casual attitude towards his laziness, without continuous expositions and monologues. Though that would be more easy without the absurdly dogmatic attitude of the character.
I am gonna guess here that either they don`t have the time and it would just end up boring part of the audience to death.

Interesting to think that the whole episode could have been much better without Satoshi there as a walking exposition of both Oreki and Chitanda.

>>156168088
How many times have you heard a long time friend tell you the same story without realizing you've heard it twenty times already? Actual people do talk about things that are redundant or should be obvious.

If you look at the scene, Oreki is basically talking to himself while watching people hurry about after school and Fukube butts in.

>>156168127
Fukube, a pretentious person who would like mottoes, prompts Oreki to repeat it and he visibly balks but repeats it anyway because he knows that it is easier to enable Fukube than resist him.

Also, is it really that weird to have a motto? I had an ever edgier motto at that age, and I have a different one now.

>>156168306
>He's a walking parody.
In your opinion, because you've never met anyone like that. Whatever, let's say he is that for a moment. What's wrong with having a character whose motivation is a parody or caricature of a certain type of person? Why do you equate realism with good writing?
>Why do we need Oreki to explain is philosophy there instead of just seeing it first hand? No reason, it's nothing but redundant.
Because we only know it is a philosophy because it is stated. If he were just a quiet loner, it could be said that he is being excluded while actually desiring the rose colored life from the beginning.
>Why do we need the same concept shown and then repeated several times?
Because repetition is how you establish that something is a trait rather than a fluke. Beyond which, why don't we need the same concept shown and then repeated? Why do you equate simplicity with good writing?

>>156168836
>Why do you equate realism with good writing?
You only need do so when a piece is trying to evoke realism, which Hyouka is.

>>156160307
yes

>>156168836
>Also, is it really that weird to have a motto?
Yes. I've never known anyone who's told me they live by a motto.

>>156169036
You should go out more often then.

>>156168992
Is it trying to evoke realism or does it just have a realistic setting? I've only read the LN that follows the material from the show so I'm not too sure here. If we go by purely the show's presentation, there are quite a few fantastically portrayed elements which have to do with Oreki's own perspective on a certain character. The entire theme of his character arc could almost be described as defeating realism.

Of course if we say that it is evoking realism, then we have to go back to the matter of whether his character is unrealistic or not.

>>156168836
>In your opinion, because you've never met anyone like that. Whatever, let's say he is that for a moment. What's wrong with having a character whose motivation is a parody or caricature of a certain type of person? Why do you equate realism with good writing?
What is it that makes a good character drama? What is the point of a character drama about a completely unbelievable, inauthentic individual?
>Because we only know it is a philosophy because it is stated. If he were just a quiet loner, it could be said that he is being excluded while actually desiring the rose colored life from the beginning.
No. Through different kind of interactions with several people we would slowly get his entire character. That's good, nuanced character writing. We don't need to have things explained in the first scene of the first episode
>Because repetition is how you establish that something is a trait rather than a fluke. Beyond which, why don't we need the same concept shown and then repeated? Why do you equate simplicity with good writing?
Why do you think that subjecting the viewer to have things explained, shown and then explained again is a good think? Do you think that the show don't tell rule doesn't apply?

>>156159599
How is that fujoshit?

>>156169624
When I say realism, I don't mean pragmatism, cynicism, or anything like that. I mean the artistic movement that seeks to evoke the real world in character motivations. And I do think Hyouka does this, in part because of its setting (a realistic setting almost always belies a realist bent) but more so because of how much time is spent exploring the motivations of different characters, which is another common trope of realist fiction.

Hyouka certainly uses fantastical imagery to portray certain scenes, but this is simply a method to portray those scenes. They do not detach us from the real world or suggest any sort of fantastical element within the work.

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>>156159440
katanagatari, and oregairu

>>156169650
Why do you think Oreki is an "unbelievable, inauthentic individual"? What is possibly exaggerated and ridiculous about having a motto about saving energy to the point that it makes him impossible to exist?
Why do most people who have watched Hyouka not feel this way about him?
Why do you think Oreki stating his philosophy tells us everything about his character?
Why do you think Oreki repeating this philosophy throughout the show is in service of the viewers as exposition?
Why are you conveniently ignoring all the show don't tell in the series and just repeatedly posting the same screenshots to prove the series doesn't follow the show don't tell rule? How does characters stating their motto equate to the show not following that rule?
How does the characters repeating their motto equate to the show only giving us exposition as characterization?

>>156169650
>What is the point of a character drama about a completely unbelievable, inauthentic individual?
The same as any other character drama, to explore how that character interacts with the world, other characters, and various situations. Notice that this goal does not require the world, the characters, or the situations to be realistic.
>We don't need to have things explained in the first scene of the first episode
Why not explain things in the first scene? Why not have a character state his philosophy at the very beginning so that it is clear from the first moment? Obfuscation does not make something better written. Good writing is effective (rather than efficient or esoteric), it communicates well. Oreki's character is effectively presented to the audience because his actions are shown and the reasons behind those actions are told. This establishes the baseline against which the future developments can be compared.

Show don't tell is a convention, not a rule.

>>156169882
If Fukube and Chitanda are realistic characters, so is Oreki. If none of them are realistic, we're not really dealing with realism, are we?

>>156170363
>If none of them are realistic, we're not really dealing with realism, are we?
Something can be realist and suck.

>>156170418
Or maybe you think it sucks because you want to pin it as something that it isn't and judge it by that standard.

>>156170474
I'm not saying it sucks. I laid out why I think the show is evoking realism. And I don't think it does it badly, it just has flaws.

>>156170510
You mean it has things you don't like. Just like you think it evokes realism, but you don't think the main character is realistic.

>>156160020
This

>>156170363
>The same as any other character drama, to explore how that character interacts with the world, other characters, and various situations. Notice that this goal does not require the world, the characters, or the situations to be realistic.
What is the value of a character drama written is such a way that doesn't reflect the human condition anymore?
>Why not explain things in the first scene? Why not have a character state his philosophy at the very beginning so that it is clear from the first moment? Obfuscation does not make something better written. Good writing is effective (rather than efficient or esoteric), it communicates well. Oreki's character is effectively presented to the audience because his actions are shown and the reasons behind those actions are told. This establishes the baseline against which the future developments can be compared.
His reasons don't need to be told. That only undermines the effectiveness of the writing. We don't need things that could be shown through the course of the story told in the first scene.
>Show don't tell is a convention, not a rule.
And why don't you think it doesn't apply here?

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I thought Hyouka was pretty great.

>>156170573
Yes, I understand that my opinion is subjective. Is there any reason to say that? If you don't don't have anything to counter my points with, just stop replying.

>>156170702
It is Kyoani's magnum opus after all

I love the doublethink that Hyouka defenders are developing to justify exposition over visual storytelling, which supposedly was the strong point of the show.

Hyouka was a chore anime. The dialogue or visuals or whatever were all just backseat to how empty and unmoving it all was. Imagine if Glasslip had an ending, and it STILL meant nothing. Though I'm sure that's because there is more to the kotenbu series than what was covered in the anime.

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Is Tamako a well-written character?

>>156171064
Simple, happy-go-lucky girl just trying to mochi her way through life.

So yes.

>>156170651
>What is the value of a character drama written is such a way that doesn't reflect the human condition anymore?
Does something have to be realistic to reflect aspects of the human condition? Does a hyperbolic character not still represent an aspect of the human condition? Hell, why does the human condition matter in the first place?
>His reasons don't need to be told.
Why not? This way the audience understands the character from the very first scene. That is highly effective. What is shown is how that characterization changes over the rest of the story.

Why would that rule apply? In a medium with dialogue, there is plenty that should be told to the audience. Especially when it can be used to allow the audience to understand a character immediately. The focus of Hyouka is not who Oreki is, but how he changes in reaction to meeting Chitanda. There is no reason to obscure his personality while waiting for X number of scenes to get the point across. It's shown AND told, in the same scene even.

>>156170720
Your opinion is that Oreki isn't realistic, which you count as a flaw. But you're wrong, objectively. I know actual humans with far less realistic personalities; I was almost a dead ringer for being Oreki when I was in high school even down to a form of "energy conservation."

>>156171064
I want to cum on her glasses, so yes.

>>156171180
So how are Ara-araragi and Hitagi less developed characters? Why is Hyouka the complex bildungsroman and the equally pretentious Monogatari "utter garbage"?

And give me a more cringeworthy example of Monog dialog.

>>156171064
Eps 9 was the best episode that Kigami ever directed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euHq8NUPlVE

>>156171253
I'd say they are far more developed, but there's also a lot more Monogatari content. I called both Hyouka and the Monogataris great.

But as far as cringeworthy examples from Monogatari, what about Araragi's spiel about having friends making him weaker as a human?

>>156167237
Not him but you are wrong.

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>>156170702
Me too. Oreki design made it all better.

>>156171337
Sure you aren't

I love how these threads bring to light all the anons who believe some anime is nonshit.
Like Hyouka is shit, go watch superior and really good anime XYZ.
Honest to god people, all anime is brainless shit, you have pseudo intellectual shit flavor, you have ironic shit flavour, you have "not even trying" shit flavour, you have shit shit flavour.

It is all shit, nobody watches fucking anime to activate almonds.

>>156171454
Unique IP count bumped after that post, new poster confirmed.

>>156171253
Reminder that "complex Bildungsroman" is an oxymoron and that this anon simply threw in the word to sound "clever".

A true asshat like you only find here, never change /a/, never change

>>156171550
Sure it did

I think a testament as to how authentic Hyouka was towards adolescence, were the negative reactions towards the show's perfect finale. For some reason people wanted some grand confession, some climatic moment to signify development but what we got was very understated, lowkey internal growth that really captured the essence of what adolescence really is.

>>156171180
>Does something have to be realistic to reflect aspects of the human condition? Does a hyperbolic character not still represent an aspect of the human condition? Hell, why does the human condition matter in the first place?
We're going in circles. What is the point of a character drama whose character are exaggerated in such a way that they no longer have meaningful relation to the human experience the audience could share? Why would I want watch a character that is not relatable, is not interesting, it's not funny as a parody because it's not intended to be one and his characterization and development are played straight?
>Why not? This way the audience understands the character from the very first scene. That is highly effective. What is shown is how that characterization changes over the rest of the story.
>Why would that rule apply? In a medium with dialogue, there is plenty that should be told to the audience. Especially when it can be used to allow the audience to understand a character immediately. The focus of Hyouka is not who Oreki is, but how he changes in reaction to meeting Chitanda. There is no reason to obscure his personality while waiting for X number of scenes to get the point across. It's shown AND told, in the same scene even.
Nobody is obfuscating anything. It's called organic storytelling. Showcasing a character trough natural, believable interactions will always beat blunt, unnatural exposition in the first scene of the first episode. There's no defending this, you should stop trying.

>>156171589
Hello newfag. It's very easy to confirm if a post is from a new IP, do you even have 4chanX?

>>156162967
Welcome to 2017, this is now true for basically all anime, everything looks the same. characters are now identified by some specific quirk rather than actually looking different.

>>156171684
Yes

>>156170837
Hyouka defenders confirmed for communists.

>>156171632
>broody guy who goes out of his way not to mix with people becomes insanely popular with all the cool kids and top students while putting 0 effort into it.
Ya, no, this isn't what typical adolescence looks like in my part of the world.

>>156171838
Thats exactly how it works in the real world though you don't get popular from actually trying. You either have an interesting talent or you don't. And Oreki did.
In the real world 90% of the time that talent is just being funny or charismatic though.

>>156171838
On this subject, can we talk about how the absolutely out of place high fashion clothes that these nobodies high schooler that live in the middle of nowhere always wear are maybe the best example of the unauthentic and ultimately vapid and surface level nature of this show?

>>156171838
I don't know what show you were watching but it wasn't Hyouka.

>>156171632
>that really captured the essence of what adolescence really is.
Adolescence isn't about being a pussy and not confessing though. It's the complete opposite.

>>156171634
If the character has no meaningful relation to the human experience, isn't exploring that difference the point? Is that not why non-realistic character dramas exist in the first place?

>will always beat
Why? Why is it bad to give the audience a clear understanding of a character from the start? Doesn't that make the character more relatable, interesting, or "established as a parody?" If you won't watch a character that isn't those things, why would it be acceptable not to make a character those things from the start by clearly establishing characterization. Hyouka anchors Oreki from the very beginning and then uses organic storytelling to explore how he interacts with others and changes through those interactions. Why is using only organic storytelling better than using direct exposition and organic storytelling together?

>>156172056
Not accordin to my life

>>156172056
Thinking that scene was about not confessing is the dumbest and shallowest possible way to interpret it.

>>156172185
>omg muh gray colored life is actually rose colored!
Wow so deep

>>156172002
Nah mate, nobody has "interesting talents" in high school, anime isn't real life. Most people have uneventful high school lifes with a couple of friends and act perfectly "normal".
Sitting in the back of a classroom going "I am conserving energy", "I am mysterious and interesting", "I can deduce shit like Sherlock holmes" is a sign you are probably the chubby unpopular kid who everyone keeps an eye on in case he tries to go for the highscore one day.

>>156172265
>nobody has "interesting talents" in high school
Is this what public school is like or something?

>>156159440
Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinju.

Too many people think pseudo-deep dialogue is good writing when it's just tryhard bs. Good writing is taking casual dialogue and setting it up in a way that resonates.

>>156172382
The last episode threw any integrity Rakugo had out the window

Why is there so many Hyouka threads recently? Is it because it was licenced?

>>156172229
Oh man you really didn't understand that scene. It's about responsibility, personal duty and the ambiguity of the future if I have to spell it out for you.

>>156161422
Should be posted in all sales threads, especially after some kyoshill repeats the bullshit "top of the committee" meme.

>>156172097
>If the character has no meaningful relation to the human experience, isn't exploring that difference the point? Is that not why non-realistic character dramas exist in the first place?
There could be several reason, but to begin with there should be the intention of having characters behave not realistically. Hyouka doesn't come across as self aware of Oreki being a caricature, nothing meaninful comes from the fact, the characters feel unauthentic and not possible to relate to simply because poorly written.
>Why? Why is it bad to give the audience a clear understanding of a character from the start? Doesn't that make the character more relatable, interesting, or "established as a parody?" If you won't watch a character that isn't those things, why would it be acceptable not to make a character those things from the start by clearly establishing characterization. Hyouka anchors Oreki from the very beginning and then uses organic storytelling to explore how he interacts with others and changes through those interactions. Why is using only organic storytelling better than using direct exposition and organic storytelling together?
Ok, it's clear at this point that you're willing to ignore generally accepted conventions regarding storytelling for the sake of defending Hyouka.
I'm going to bed.

>>156161063
>Tamako Market: Flop
>Kyoukai no Kanata: Flop
>Amagi: Flop
>Euphonium: Flop
What a retard

>>156172432
Oh sure it is.

>>156161863
>>Chuunibyou: 4/10
>>Chuunibyou S2: 5/10
Why?

>>156162101
All their biggest successes and most well-acclaimed shows were from before 2012.

Really makes you think.

>>156162560
Pay denbts, greekshit

>>156172097
Buddy, it's anime, it's shit.
Anime will always be the fast food of the visual media.
It is basically never going to be deep or meaningful (especially when talking about serialized anime), because at some point Mr. Shekel manager comes along and points out that unless there are some cute girls doing some cute shit in the show sales will not be able to cover production costs.
The main audiences for anime are in Japan, and within japan there are basically 3 groups of people who make up the vast majority of people who consume anime; children/teens, otaku, salarymen. None of those are fucking interested in 2deep4u anime. It is why nobody in fucking Japan gives two flying shits about "MUH GHOST IN A SEASHELL" but everyone and their mother knows who doran on is.

It is all mindless shit, we like it that way, we like it being mindless shit. Just like the way I like McDonalds not being haute cuisine, I like anime not being a great philosophical work.

Deal
With
It

It is never going to change.

>>156166010
>no one remembers madoka meme

That must be why we have at least 4 threads of it per day, right? Or how it's still the 2nd best selling TV anime, right?

Oh I forgot; Antichristplex has mind-control powers.