>”The Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end — it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations,” Anno said in explaining his support of the project. “It may even be too late.”
>The plan is to make an initial line-up of about 30 animation shorts, an average of five to six minutes in length. The shorts will be made with production support from Khara and distributed on Web and as smartphone aps with technical backing from Dwango.
>Asked about the fourth and last instalment in his new “Evangelion” series, Anno offered no new info about production. “I am definitely doing it, but I have to do this sort of thing as well. I’m thinking that I’ll return to ‘Evangelion’ after I do something different,” he said.
The problem is that when you pander to their already established tastes and there are no risks taken, you end up with a stagnant, dying market, and will eventually deprive those same fans of material they would have already had.
On another note- Anno, are you just trying to get a bunch of people to just do what you did when you were a kid? Diacon IV came out twenty one years ago, dude.
Is this going to end up like that Studio 4C project called Amazing Nuts, where the most popular shorts out of the project were going to become actual anime? (too bad that didn't end up happening.)
There is a trailer. Look like a hipster shit
By commercial considerations I'm pretty sure he's talking about the niche otaku market, not children or normalfags or anything of that sort.
Still, with Anno funding this project and Trigger forming a potential partnership with Pixar, it's very likely that they know anime is dying as it is right now, and they know it.
>when you pander to their already established tastes and there are no risks taken, you end up with a stagnant, dying market
What already established tastes? People who like mecha shows? Idolfags? Making mecha shows or idol shows isn't "pandering", it's creating a product to meet a demand. Risks have to be taken to innovate but there's a balance to be struck there, and it has to be on the level of individual companies and projects. Saying you need to be divorced from commercial considerations is typical artist stupidity.
Can you not read? He's saying that he's hoping to do something different after 3.0+1.0, and then maybe return to Eva.
He's entirely right, though. Japan needs to have something that completely changes the industry soon. It's been, what, twenty years since Eva? We need another big project to completely "wow" us again, and get studios to stop doing the same thing over and over again.
>I’m thinking that I’ll return to ‘Evangelion’ after I do something different
Man, at this right we'll never get it.
But it's weird, I'm not sad about that, I rather see Anno work on something new than milk NGE even more
Anno has always had commercial considerations in his projects, he talk shit about irresponsible people.
Here he is saying that it's needed to do something new, without commercial restrictions as an investment to push the limits of commercial animation.
You need to make some bad independent 3DCG movies before making a commercial series like Sidonia.
No we don't. I am really fucking mad at the increasing mainstreaming of anime thanks to Crunchy fucks. If I had to give up my memories of anime forever in exchange for unleashing a mass mind-wiping wave that would revert it to a quirky, despised thing, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Which niche otaku market? The one that makes massive successes of idol shows and actually sustain the industry?
If you don't like the shows that are being made, shut the fuck up and open your wallet.
I think the claim here is that there isn't a balance- the market is TOO commercial, and it's stifling innovation. He's not saying that the market as a whole needs to be divorced from commercial consideration, but there's a need for people to work on a few projects divorced from commercial consideration to push the medium forward a little bit, and get animator's and director's chops up.
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. What I mean is that we need studios to start taking more risks, and not just focus on "how much merch can we sell"
It has nothing to do with anime's mainstream in the West. If it helps to dispel your fears, anime will never be as widespread/popular in the West as it was in the late 90s to the early 2000s.
>”The Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end — it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations,”
>Anno, of all people, saying this
That faggot has been milking his cash cow for almost 20 years now
>Which niche otaku market? The one that makes massive successes of idol shows and actually sustain the industry?
Yes. Because there's no long-term future for that. They obviously want to expand outside of that and find a new target audience to cater to, one that doesn't prefer the same regurgitated idol, and harem shit over and over and over again
>If it helps to dispel your fears, anime will never be as widespread/popular in the West as it was in the late 90s to the early 2000s.
Unimaginably true. It was borderline acceptable then- now it's pretty heavily stigmatized.
>unless we can make animation without commercial considerations
Faggot, just end writing scenario tho the end before you begin animate, and don't waste time and money on shit when you know you don't have either of them to waste.
But there are
>Destroy his most popular work with pandering and shit writing
>Use the money for saving anime
A true hero
>The plan is to make an initial line-up of about 30 animation shorts, an average of five to six minutes in length. The shorts will be made with production support from Khara and distributed on Web and as smartphone aps with technical backing from Dwango.
What the fuck am I reading.
You know westerners can't do shit to impact the market over there.
To be fair, though, I think when Anno is complaining about "commercial considerations", he means when blatant fan pandering sells the show, as opposed to high quality story telling. Shows where there's a bland, self-insert MC surrounded by pussy and there's a girl for everyone's tastes. When studios put merchandising and lewd art over telling a story that will last. Or when LN's only get adaptations to boost sales for the source. It's a problem in every industry, but in anime it gets worse and worse every year.
Shit, look at VN adaptations. Some go so far to put fanservice over story that they skim over routes in the game just so that each girl wins.
I don't know if there's anything inherently wrong with fan-service for the money, as long as it's not insulting to the audience, but the ones to blame are the Elevens buying the shit up non-stop.
Maybe not acceptable, but I remember there was a huge "japanese culture" craze where everything japanese was automatically hip and cool
It just seems like there's more retards attaching themselves to it now because we have a much more advanced internet.
If Anno or anyone in the industry is serious about making the next big Eva to revive anime, then I feel the only step forward is to go international. They had their chance in the early and mid 2000's but they blew it then. With Trigger teaming up with Pixar and Anno taking a greater focus in 3D animation, that may be the road they're heading.
They dish a shit-ton of money out for movies though. The animation industry in America is huge off of movies alone.
There were, and yes Gainax sold the movie rights, but they expired. There's a bunch of concept art and everything. It also had something to do with a split in the company or some shit.
>”The Japanese animation industry has hit a dead end — it will be tough to escape unless we can make animation without commercial considerations,”
Says the guy who made the series that had the most commercial tie ins up until that time. And set up the 'commercial industry' anime is running on now.
Also, Anno was bitching about the anime industry being dead back in the late 90s. Before it quadrupled in size.
I'm pretty happy with how anime is right now, I mean we get a whole lot of crap but there is such volume being produced that there's at least one worthwhile anime every season. There is certainly still innovation in the anime industry.
You can't just ask businesses to stop focusing on commercial success, studios will do what is popular until a director wants to break the mold, then that becomes the new paradigm if it's a success.
And the kids now have access to the internet, it's a lesser version of what happened back then, and it's not anything to freak out over.
Anno owns all the rights to Eva now.
Then he should look for a way to get better writers in the industry. A few well-written studio original shows would break the illusion that only LN or manga adaptations are safe bets.
It would certainly be better than complaining about the people who buy BDs and merch as if you could trade in your customer base for a better one.
I said "borderline." There was a certain amount of it people would tolerate. They'd think it was weird, but the stigma is way more intense now- I attribute a lot of that to Naruto, Bleach, and One piece catching on hardcore stateside.
>Shit, look at VN adaptations. Some go so far to put fanservice over story that they skim over routes in the game just so that each girl wins.
95% of book/manga/vn/game adaptations are shit, anime or no. It's a rule. Commercialization has little to do with it, it's a shitty writers/directors fault and desire to cram everything in one go.
I don't think it's like that at all, I think he's trying to say that he understands where the smaller studios are coming from and he wants to help them out by contacting some their directors for this collaboration project. That's it.
Daily reminder that criticizing the lack of ideas on the anime industry doesn't mean to hate cute girls. Everyone loves cute girls on Japan, especially the people working on the industry. Even Miyazaki is an obvious lolicon. The criticism isn't about girls wearing miniskirts, it's about lazyness and lack of inspiration
That's why Pixar movies keep breaking records. beating out live action films.
>They dish a shit-ton of money out for movies though. The animation industry in America is huge off of movies alone.
The animation industry in America is hardly 'huge'. Its basically 3 different companies publishing and producing all the animated titles. Which are mostly done by Korean/Japanese animators anyway.
To add to this, the only reason movies do so well in America is because of massive advertising. They spend well over 200 million dollars advertising every new Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks movie. Then break even on the box office sales. Its the DVD/Blu Ray sales which bring in all the money. Its basically an investment.
And even then, what is all that advertising aimed at? The Hollywood actors who do the voices for characters. Not the unique story or animation itself.
It all started from Beat Takeshi
>"I hate anime and even though I truly hate, like, Hayao Miyazaki's work, I can recognize how great anime is just by the amount of money it earns.
Inb4 kotaku, actually it has better translation than ann
No one is saying it's dying. Anno is just saying it'll hit a dead end as far as quality goes. There's just a lack of good writing in the industry, and an abundance of shit taste in the market.
> lazyness and lack of inspiration
This, pretty much this.
I don't even know how bad those concept makers' ideas are nowadays, but they are mostly shit that wouldn't sell because they are clearly uninteresting, like Genei wo Kakeru Taiyou.
>And even then, what is all that advertising aimed at? The Hollywood actors who do the voices for characters. Not the unique story or animation itself.
Its so sad how Hollywood even controls the animated industry in America.
>Anime is dead because it doesn't pander to my mature and refined tastes!
>mention the American animation industry in my post, which focuses on children and families
Talk about poor reading comprehension.
Your point? It's different from the usual pandering fare and a fairly big-budget, successful movie could provide enough cash to fund their own independent projects.
The problem is only LN or manga adaptations are a safe bet because the audience doesn't give a shit about anything beyond jerking-off. Even original shows are full of pandering and safe choices in an attemp to attract the otaku yen.
Anime is stuck on a vicious cycle of late-night cartoons made by otakus and consumed only by otakus. The solution would be going back to the casuals but the primetime is full of J-dramas and variety shows and they're already struggling for maintain the ratings because the audience is tired of the same shit over and over again
So what's the fix, eh? They our a ton of money into things consumers probably WON'T pay for, and haven't been proven, and magically turn a profit?
Those people with shit taste are the only ones who matter in the grand scheme, anon.
Tomino and Gundam deserve huge credit for keeping anime relevant as a whole. They are definitely a contributing factor. If Gundam didn't exist, neither Japan nor the USA would be as much into anime as they are.
The amount of crappy merchandise tie ins that came out for Eva made Gundam look insignificant.
Yes, Gundam was made to be a tie in to a toy line. But the point was, Eva had 100x the merchandise of Gundam (or any other anime up to that point). It pretty much set the standard for future shows which didn't make money off of DVD sales, but royalties off merchandise.
>My interest that was never obscure is getting more fans
Absolutely pathetic wannabe hipster shit. No better than the losers who stop listening to bands once they go big. Go find a new edgy hobby big daddy.
My point is that there is no 'new target audience' for these novel projects, not in the grand scale. The only people who are willing to dish money out for animation are the obsessive idol fans and maybe families.
I've kind of noticed it and been tolerating it a bit for a while, but it's just become really blatant in the last year and a half or so I'd say. I find it's mainly Aniplex pushing this sort of hyper commercialized model with trying to make all these big budget blockbuster style over substance shows with plug in x commercially popular staffers like Gen Urobuchi, Sawano and Kaijura adapted at y currently popular studio like Madhouse, SHAFT, ufoTABLE, Sunrise etc. using Z popular LN/VN license.
We also seem to get like a seasonal Monogatari entry as well out of them now because it's guaranteed easy sales regardless of content and effort level. It kind of gets old pretty fast and they're just so blatant about the commercial intent it kind of bleeds into the shows themselves and any enjoyment I might get out of them. Even if I kind of like some of those people, studios and franchises I prefer them in small doses as opposed to like...I don't know...ALL THE FREAKING TIME with constant commercial promotions and in your face blanket advertising.
The only reason that shit sold was because of Yuasa, the same reason why Cross Ange would ever sell (muh Nana Mizuki).
>anime is dying
I don't know how many of you youngins were even around in the 80s, but I can tell you that anime is being produced at a rate greater than ever before. They wouldn't be making so many god damn new anime if they didn't sell.
Keep making good anime and people's tastes will accustom over time. Sort of like how Hollywood pushed cape films. Now everyone goes to the movies to see shitty, tasteless Marvel drek no matter how bad it is because they've become accustomed to it.
Shame that the anime industry is so divided that it can't even afford that.
>No better than the losers who stop listening to bands once they go big.
Usually the reason bands "get big" in the first place is because they deviate from their original formula that made them obscure, obviously that would alienate old fans.
>the next big Eva
Eva was a product of its time and it was hardly groundbreaking concept-wise even then, pandering mostly to otakus (the early/first otakus, but otakus nonetheless).
If anything we should be looking to/for a new Satoshi Kon in anime going forward.
>Anno or Eva mentioned on /a/
>guaranteed 500 posts
Like shooting autists in a comic book store.
That's not really the problem so much as companies scrambling to try to pander to these idiots and empowering them while kind of neglecting the traditional fanbases of anime more and more. It's also still pretty despised at large if not moreso now because it's living up more and more to the stereotypes people always used to attribute to it because it's basically catering to braindead idiots more and more and becoming increasingly simplistic in the kinds of stories the shows try to tell and how it goes about telling them even as the budgets are increasing and shit continues to look flashier and flashier.
They know perfectly well it isn't dying. They just don't like what it's turning into. These threads are thinly-veiled complaints about "moeshit" by the people who think trigger is a good studio.
Are you mentally challenged? The point isn't that nothing is being made, it's that what is being made is generic shit we've all seen a thousand times before
I think you're going senile, gramps.
I'll just keep watching Junichi Sato shows. You know, a guy who has been working on series since the 1980s and is still going strong now.
He even worked on the storyboard for End of Eva.
Come on, Tomino has ALWAYS done what he can in his power to tell a story he wants regardless of the obsessive fan market and his shows don't pander to the lowest Japanese man. Even if his story telling in a bit unorthodox, Tomino just doesn't give a shit about the fans and keeps pushing himself ti keep making anime
>it's dead because it profitable
>it will be alive when it become financial failure
If you give creators too much freedom without any restrictions, you won't get better product - you will get shit, or nothing at all.
Another nutjob crying because people don't like what he likes
>Keep making good anime and people's tastes will accustom over time.
Also, Hollywood never pushes jack shit. Marvel figured out the perfect superhero blockbuster formula, and it sold like hotcakes. Everyone (including Marvel themselves) has been aping that formula ever since, and it's been working.
An industry will never change its consumers. Ever.
America and the rest of the western world does not give a shit about Gundam and never has.
If anything, American networks broadcasting the stuff over here on childrens' channels like cartoon network are the ones that you should be thanking.
He's not talking about anime dying, if you didn't notice. He's more concerned about mass-producing shit that currently sells. All cheap LN adaptations for no other reason but to milk money from desperate otaku, without any effort to do anything else.
People will pay for good content, period. Problem is, the people with shit taste consider tits, ass, and moe. Those people are in the majority. But it's not like that is THE ONLY thing that will sell. A recent example, SnK is selling pretty well and doesn't have much fanservice in the show itself. Yeah, there's some fucking sketchy merchandising, but the animators and writers of the show are giving their all trying to make a good, loyal adaptation.
If you gotta sell daki's of the cast or something to keep the show afloat, so be it. But the integrity is in making the show itself.
Well speaking just about Japan they're pretty much enraptured with Love Live but I don't really think that's the solution. Some people might argue that that franchise was Madoka but I'm still not sure. Others seem to argue that Gen Urobuchi is the solution to all of animes writing problems but I personally find him far to one dimensional and prone to quitting on projects mere episodes into writing the scripts to be much of a positive influence.
Fuck you Anno. You shat all over Evangelion. I don't give a flying fuck what you think. You are a hack like George Lucas.
Sell Evangelion to someone who can actually do some good with it.
>the most influential and popular anime of all time
Gee, did you come up with that yourself or was fed that shit by the marketing team(s)?
The fucking irony.
Anno's fucking Evangelion franchise management is the main culprit of the current state of anime industry. what the fuck is he warning people about? what a piece of shit
>No Global Astroliner Gou anime
Still mad, fuck everything
I'm still in favor of a non-Japanese company taking everything inherently good about anime and co-opting it into something new. It's pretty clear they're beyond saving, but the medium doesn't need to die along with their shitty, untalented industry.
Can I say that I absolutely agree with him and that I'm really excited for this without you guys calling me a hipster?
>50+ hour of story to read
>Very Little to no Gameplay
>Longer than a Book/LN and most manga
>Main selling points are the possibility of dating and or fucking the cute girl on the cover and the feeling of loss
>Tragedy in the final acts are guaranteed
>Long and Truncated story telling due there formats
VN's are the worst things getting adapted hands down
VN's are for shitty people with lots of time to waste and are basically lower than scum so a good amount of the /a/ user base
>We also seem to get like a seasonal Monogatari entry
You retard or just idiot? Monogatary had commercial success and people begging to animate all novels that left, and they getting what they asked.
It wasn't brain numbingly stupid in terms of it's themes.
Simply because you think shonen and all the tropes that come along with it are of a lesser quality does not mean the show is bad. Try to be a little bit objective.
But Tomino hasn't pandered to the fans, in fact, he hates them.
What's there for him to do.
Now that I assume Anno has done this to gain money witht eh rebuilds, I guess he never became a sellout and just wanted to imporve the industry from within by going with the flow and redirecting it while Tomino goes fully againts it
Gundam is Gundam. It is an unstoppable behemoth and can do whatever it wants to. 2013 was a record year for Gundam profits and this is a nearly 40 year old series.
Gundam is no offense or thread to anime. If anything it's helped the industry as a whole by keeping foreigners interested. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
This. Take a look at Eva manga spinoffs. I dont know what were they thinking when they hired this bitch for IM2nd
You're right. My penis can't wait for LN adaptation # 55354545, with the same plot I've seen 20 times this year, the same character designs, the same characters but with diferent names, the same VAs (even if they're new VAs, they all sound the same), the same development and a hook for next season.
Looks great to me. I'm all for Anno serving as a patron of new anime.
>hur durr it HAS to be Japanese
No, it doesn't. You could probably direct a competent anime at this point seeing as you've most likely seen enough to know it's inherent qualities.
Unfortunately people will always refuse to step out of their comfort zones when it comes to anime.
Because there's so much anime out all the time, the likelyhood of something pandering specifically to your taste are pretty high, you're never really put in a situation where you have to branch out and try something new or something you may have never considered before.
Kyoani fans only watch Kyoani shows
Moefans only watch moe shows
Action fans only watch action shows
DEEPfans only watch DEEP shows
Hell there's some people who only watch adaptions of their favourite manga/VN/LN and people who only watch original shows.
Nobodies willing to take a risk with their time and money watching a genre, director, studio that they're unfamiliar with or refuse to associate with for whatever reason just as much as studios are unwilling to take any risks.
The Rebuilds aren't good, you moron. That's the point. The Rebuilds are a massive troll by Anno to make fun of all of us for not being able to let go a decade later.
Did you not watch End of Evangelion?
And here's the proof, that /a/ has been taken by tumbr/MAL faggots.
I mean, if Naruto threads weren't enough evidence for you guys.
I'll be called a troll or baiter here but do we need more anime/manga that's exactly like SHingeki no Kyojin.
Decent story and characters that anyonecan understand and enjoy but the big deal is that it doesn't pander to anyone yet it sells like hot cakes even in Japan
You guys are fucking stupid if you can't see that anime as a creative form is becoming increasingly homogenized and pandering to one particular taste palate. That is equal to the form dying, creatively.
Wanted to add that some people might argue this season at least that Fate/Stay Night is that big next generation cutting edge show, but when you really think about it, the bar none most popular anime this season is a remake adaptation of a decade old eroge VN (since made just a regular VN admittedly) that features characters and story arcs most of the people watching it are likely already very familiar with and have been for about a similar amount of time as the franchise has been around and thus are mainly watching to see their favorite scenes adapted with a modern cutting edge look, sizable budget and the 2D/3DCGI blend animation style that is currently defining this era. This Fall season, the season that is supposed to be when the industry really brings out all of it's big guns, ideas and really starts pouring on the budgets, that show is considered to be the absolute best the industry can do by a considerable margin by many people. Just removing any and all fanboyism from the equation for half a second that's pretty damning for the anime industries ability to generate new content and not rely so much on past success and surefire hits.
>The point isn't that nothing is being made, it's that what is being made is generic shit we've all seen a thousand times before
>everyone who watch anime seen everything I've seen in those 20 years
>and if they don't and being underage newfags, they should watch all those I deemed as masterpieces before they were born.
I thing you should stop watching anime and quit /a/.
I think you should go get ready for bed, you have school in the morning.
Tell me what the "Curse of the Eva" is, then. It's Anno laughing at all of us as we keep giving him more money to destroy Evangelion. In that sense, you could say I love the Rebuilds not as films, but for what they represent.
HELL NO, especially because it was enslaved by the idea of "if you can't beat them, join them", and then the absolute lack of action in the latest chapters.
Isayama cannot into balance, and he'll be a slave to the editors who want to cash in on his successful manga.
>>Asked about the fourth and last instalment in his new “Evangelion” series, Anno offered no new info about production. “I am definitely doing it, but I have to do this sort of thing as well. I’m thinking that I’ll return to ‘Evangelion’ after I do something different,” he said.
So, he asked 30 independent animators and gave them money to make some weird shit without trying to be commercial success.
And then he is gonna take the best ideas and men to make the most epic evangelion 4.0 possible.
How can this go wrong? This guy is really going to break anime again.
Frankly, I'd much prefer it if we had a wider variety of shows in terms of plots and themes with varying styles, like we did around 6~8 years ago. Things really felt creatively free just that short of a time ago, but since then something happened, and now we have endless harem LN adaptions.
You really are reading too much into it. Rebuild is another cash cow by a hack who got lucky and is trying to keep his shit relevant. And even if Anno wants to pretend he's above it all, at which point do you turn into the thing you try to mock? The fact is that he is feeding the otaku obsession as much as the generic light novel adaptations.
I guarantee more people at your 'college' know what DBZ, Sailor Moon, Pokemon, Eva, Naruto, Cowboy Bebop or Fullmetal Alchemist are.
Anime fans know Gundam. But people who don't even know what anime is know what DBZ, Sailor Moon and Cowboy Bebop are. because of Toonami/Adult Swim.
>AKA we need more Cowboy Bebops, FMAs, Big Os and so on.
You're fucking joking right? Gundam is one of the few anime that non-japs even care about, along with DBZ, cowboy bebop, bobobobobobobobobo, inuyasha, yu yu hakusho, one piece, pokemon and
Everybody knows that the plot was pretty standard for a sports manga. People liked it because because the characters were well-exposed and the directing was good. If you think Yuasa had any significant degree of control of the plot you're retarded.
>"anime" literally means japanese animation, though.
anime is actually a shortened form of 'animation' first coined by the French and borrowed by Japan.
I know what you mean, what we classify as anime is a show produced in Japan. But the term itself isn't Japanese. Just like the term 'Loli' wasn't a Japanese invention. Its based on a term coined in Europe after the book Lolita.
>I only watch pretentious shit and everybody else should
This thread in a nutshell
Thread like these really show just how much filth is riddled throughout /a/.
If you prefer anime to stay as it is and enjoy watching the same shitty moe series every season, you're a part of the problem.
It's a solid no-bullshit dark fantasy series with a good OST and occasionally awesome animation. Compared to other shonen nonsense with zero world-building and anything-goes nerd bait character designs like Akame la Kill it's absolutely amazing. But hey, whatever makes you feel superior to those "plebs" /b/ro.
Shana, Toradora and Index sparked the interest in light novel adaptations. I wouldn't call it "the beginning of the end" because there are light novels that were adapted earlier than the three like the Lost Universe (Slayers, for example). It's just that adaptations nowadays are taken from works from Syosetsuka no Narou (e.g. Mahouka).
>Tell me what the "Curse of the Eva" is, then.
Not that anon, but it's the result of the pilots going past the safety depth ratios with their entry plugs.
Fucking Ritsuko states this several goddamn times throughout 2.22
>"Shinji stop! You're synch ratio is at 400% You won't be able to become human again!"
>"The angel contamination has pushed Asuka out of safety levels. She may no longer become human"
>"The transfer pilot of unit 02 is fine losing their humanity at the possibility of going beast mode."
And shit like that.
Learn to pay attention next time.
This is weird. People have been saying this shit since the 80s. I guess people have to be reminded every few decades.
There will always be commercially driven works and there'll always be a few that aren't. It's not going to change.
>any opinion I don't share is edgy
Whether I'm reading into it too much or not, I don't really care. That's my interpretation, and it makes the films much better for me. I'm well aware he's as guilty as the people he's calling out, but at least he's the one trying to call for more creativity.
Any sane person agrees with him. Disagreeing with him means you're defending boring generic shit like World Trigger and Girl Friend Beta. Nobody actually enjoys anime like this, but contrarians will pretend to as part of their "anime isn't dying, we have more than ever!" narrative.
Non anime fans know Gundam. If you're a male under 25 and live in America, it's kind of impossible to not know about Gundam. Our E.B.Games (now gamestop) shelves were full of Gundam games, our Toys R Us has Gundam action figures and models in the front rows, our main cartoon channels has Wing, 0079, and G Gundam playing in the evenings. I have a feeling you don't live here.
If watching cute slice of life is wrong, then I don't want to be right
I think you're talking about the Cool Japan era of the 90's and very early 00's which has long since died out since Western animation has made great strides to take care of it's own with the likes of what you see on Adult Swim and just a realization that animation doesn't have to be for kids. Anyway this was back when you had shows like Gundam Wing, DBZ, Cowboy Bebop, Big O, Outlaw Star, Texhnolyze, Rahxephon, Macross Plus, Evangelion etc. that were able to successfully tap into the mainstream American audiences and cross the cultural boundary to the point where they wern't really considered "anime" like a lot of today's stuff and just something cool and fresh to watch. Like you could never really air most of what comes on late night TV in Japan and have it ever hope to be successful, though god help Funimation they are trying to get that ball rolling again with some of the stuff they've been funding like Space Dandy.
We are playing into his hand.
What you normalfags need to understand is that anime is primarily an adaptation based medium. Saying anime needs to be made more creatively is retarded. In reality, creative manga and light novels get made all the time. And usually they fail. Why would an anime studio adapt something that already failed commercially?
The reality is that consumers dont want creative. They want harems, robots, and idols.
You fucking idiots.
Anno is at the fucking spearhead of ruining the anime industry.
He is literally rehashing Evangelion.
He has plans to LITERALLY rehash Nausicaa.
Hell he isn't even rehahsing them right, he's turning UP the otaku pandering despite there being literally no need to do that since Evangelion is an established moneymaker.
A couple of shorts which are literally drops in the ocean of the anime industry, accessible only for the tech-savvy crowd as opposed to having any sort of goal of reaching the masses is actually CONTRARY to the goal of creating sustainable growth.
I'd rather have rec threads and good new shows to watch than shit new shows and anons with no standards making threads fighting over best girls of their respective series' 24/7.
>pick the worst 2 shows of the season
>anime is dying guise!!
Fuck off back to MAL, where you can jerk off about how smart you are for watching through all of Monster and spamming Ping Pong AOTY threads.
There are some studios trying to go international again like TMS with that upcoming Lupin III anime as well as Mappa with pretty much anything they've done so far period feeling like it's aimed more at Western audiences than Japan.
>It's just that adaptations nowadays are taken from works from Syosetsuka no Narou (e.g. Mahouka).
And it won't get better, because authors are recruited directly from the audience. And LN audience reads nothing else.
>Main selling points are the possibility of dating and or fucking the cute girl on the cover and the feeling of loss
If you step outside the high school setting there are good stories to be found which don't focus on dating cute girls.
What you need to understand is that you are taking the current state and are for some reason acting like it is the has-to-be-preserved optimum, totally ignoring the fact that you don't define what anime is or was or will be.
Why not just adapt this and fund Part 2?
They still aren't as obsessed over as the other shows I mention. Gundam Seed died a quick death over here. Even bobobo got more viewers than it did. Gundam Wing is the only real show that did well on American TV. And that was in the late 90s. Hardly anyone remembers it anymore.
The point is, Gundam is aimed at mecha/gundam fans. Other shows got much more popular with a much broader market.
Not him, but Gundam as an overall influence has become it's own entity, if you will. No one is watching mechshit #2891 has saying "Gundam fucking did that first!", it's just a given at this point.
As far as the new series go, no one besides Gundam fans give a shit. I speak for America though, I don't know how Japan responds to the newer series.
Yeah, he's calling for it while he's being a hypocritical dick. He isn't mocking anyone, he's desperately trying to keep his audience on the leash with a rehash of the same shit. He's someone who happened to get lucky when he was inspired by something real and has since pandered to the fanservice audience.
No one with standards would like pretentious shit, just like they wouldn't like shameless pandering. Just because someone has some form of standards doesn't mean they're a hipster.
Serial Experiments Lain not only opened my eyes…it literally changed my life. I've experienced the whole series many times, always letting it probe my mind to provoke thoughts I didn't know existed. If you want to know what Lain is like, watch it, or rather let it watch you. After studying the series for a while I became deeply interested in computers, computer science, philosophy, mind-expansion, and theory.
I related to Lain on such a personal level that the show almost seemed to transcend the subtext of it just being a work of fiction. But then again Serial Experiments Lain blurs the thin boundary that is reality and the virtual. The concepts and information shown at parts is very much worth looking into as well (E.I. Shuman resonance (commonly)7.83Hz). The integration into the story seems entirely possible in the future. The concept of the wired is in itself one of the most intriguing and glorious things i've ever heard of. Cyberpunk nirvana I suppose would be a way of looking at it. I could write for days on this work of art, but i'll limit myself here. If you do decide to watch it, you must commit to the whole series, or you'll probably be confused or misled. The series comes full circle like i've rarely seen any other do before.
On a side note, the series is also an incredible psychonaut tool.
They don't seem to understand how an industry works, for some reason. It's not a fucking art collective. There are no aristocrats or churches patronizing anime studios. It exists to make money. It makes me suspicious that most of this thread is underage.
>You're seriously going to try to argue that Gundam has had zero influence outside of itself?
No. Because that wasn't my argument.
Star Trek also influenced tons of things. But other shows are still more popular than Star Trek.
Its the same for Gundam. It influenced tons of other shows (including Eva). But Eva still eclipsed it in popularity.
>any opinion I don't share is edgy
You just being retarded manchildren who doesn't understand that every year there's a new people starting and quiting watching anime, and many of them don't care about what was not only in past, but few months ago.
Not that anon, but you're a fucking idiot.
The vague and pointless trivia about Curse of EVA does not overshadow the fact that it's only visible and so-far shown effect is keeping the pilots younger.
Younger just like the masses of otaku like it. Plotwise and storywise the "curse" has no effect whatsoever.
It's to make money off otaku.
You miss the point. If you disagree with what Anno is saying here, you are supporting the worst anime every season. You're opposing creativity and supporting boring generic shit that nobody actually likes.
>Hardly anyone remembers it anymore.
This is just simply not true. I wore a fucking Gouf shirt the other day, all it was was a picture of a Gouf, some obscure zeon grunt suit from 38 years ago. I got stopped 3 times about it in an hour by gundam fans. It was pretty incredible.
Since we're talking about creativeness in anime, let me tell you that in my opinion, K-On is the pinnacle of what an anime needs to have to be successful or in the very least intriguing. To me the series hit a personal note because of the whole "being accepted by society" aspect. What I found so amazing about the series in general was it's ability to cross the boundaries that others would not, all for the sake of preserving the general message it was tryingto get across. It struck a note in my heart, which sounds too overdramatic when I write it but it truly did. It shows that no matter how far a person can be hated, love can always shine through the darkness; kindness of heart and soul can pierce and corner the hearts of even the most wicked people, and forgiveness is always an option. It truly portrays emotion in a way that no other series could because it was willing to push the limits; not only of what is acceptable in the anime, but also what we are willig to accept in the real world. It captures the essence that though people can be different, everyone, nay, everything in this world searches for acceptance somewhere. We all wish to be part of some bigger picture, and some are willingto go to extremes to obtain that acceptance. But just because we put others through Hell for our own goals does not mean we are not beyond being forgiven or even accepted. The flaws are looked past in order to reach the good that truly hides within all hearts and souls.
That is what I think of the series K-On.
To this date, K-On continues to be my favorite Anime series.
Learn what the word IS means retard.
Anime sales and merchandise sales are higher than they have been in any previous decade. Also despite the circlejerk it is expanding overseas. Yes Dragon Ball Z and Sailormoon were more popular than anything released today but that was it. We now have more foreigners following the regular seasons than ever before and anime has actually become a fairly normal hobby in the west.
This magical period where anime was popular with normals never existed. You are deluded.
>People seriously arguing against more variety
No one's saying everything needs to be 'hipster and/or normalfag" shit and it's just fucking daft to argue against encouraging a wider variety of shows and perspectives instead of just regurgitating the same shit over and over.
>A couple of shorts which are literally drops in the ocean of the anime industry
Who knows. Hell, Gainax was created partly as a result of a 'couple of shorts'. Perhaps some extremely talented people get noticed because of a new Daicon sort of thing.
Are you seriously suggesting the Curse of EVA shenanigans isn't a mere marketing ploy?
It's not OK, but there's more originality to what Tomino does than what Anno does.
It's as if Tomino would remake Gundam 1979 with the same characters, the same names, and he'd start the story over again every time too. The changes that are made are pointless except to pander to whatever Tomino would feel like at the time.
Anno is just that much worse.
You know what I mean. I don't give a shit about newfags coming here as long as they have better taste than half of /a/, and lurk a bit. How delusional do you have to be to not realize how shitty /a/'s tastes can be?
My question is why are you so opposed to the idea of anything being different?
Your adaptions aren't going anywhere no matter what so what's the big deal?
>This magical period where anime was popular with normals never existed. You are deluded.
Nobody said such thing. They told you anime wasn't always adaptation-based and it certainly doesn't need to be so just because you like to call other normalfags.
Rebuild has definite message and an underlying narrative structure, it wasn't just made on the brim to pander to otaku. It's more like a bait and switch.
I suspect 3.33 + 1.11 will tie some things up nicely yet still result in a massive amount of otaku asshurt, much like EoE did when it first debuted.
Of course I would argue against more variety. The variety you want is total garbage and will destroy the industry because no one will buy it. If you dont like anime in its current state just leave.
I think the point being made is simply that anime has pretty much plateaued this year. It's the most profitable year on record but even the industry big wigs are considered about sustainability now and arguing that anime might be facing a crisis as early as 2016 with just a lack of incoming new animators, lack of creative talents and just kind of being unsure of where the next big title or leap forward in the industry is going to come from. The current era has been very good to a lot of people, but the consensus that it's kind of coming to an end and there's no further room for growth with the current model the industry has been following for about a decade now and that there's going to be another recession for the market like there was in 2009 very soon. Not anime dying out, just hitting an impasse.
>It's a solid no-bullshit dark fantasy series with a good OST and occasionally awesome animation.
Who knows? We do. Gainax was a small studio formed in a different time by several people.
Khara is a industry behemoth currently in ownership of one of it's most lucrative and well-known franchises.
Some small shorts, which there are copious amount of already (you just don't notice them or pay attention to anything but the mainstream stuff) isn't changing one single thing.
Anno complaining about the industry seems more like a ploy to have people buy more merchandise and anime out of guilt.
Because he's not helping, he's ruining his one magnificent 90's hit and is threatening to do the same with Ghibli's Nausicaa.
Actually, what I'd like is more mature series that feature real issues in society, or at least aren't about I HAVE TOO MANY BITCHES AFTER MY DICK
Someone explain to me what creativity even means. Depressing DEEP ABe-type stuff? "Unique" animation styles like Aku no Hana? Stories that are original in anime but common in other mediums, like Monster? Because I don't see a single suggestion for anything actually creative in this thread.
Wrong. Right now, it only contains bullshit to pander to otaku.
The fact that you have to make up an imaginary movie which by the way, Anno does not seem to care much about, is all the proof you need.
Rebuild is garbage as of 3.0, because it is STILL otaku-pandering garbage. Each movie just got worse and worse in that aspect. You can kind of forgive the first two because they follow each other nicely and play in tune with the original's early bullshit, but not the third.
>Are you seriously suggesting the Curse of EVA shenanigans isn't a mere marketing ploy?
It's both. If not more.
>criticism towards otaku
>important to the upcoming plot for latter movies
I can't wait till the industry finally dies so I can stop hearing about how it's dying every year.
There is no fucking message. He's destroying his own work for more money and that's it. You can dress it up however you want with mumbo jumbo but that's how it is. He isn't laughing at anyone, he's filling his own pockets and there's absolutely no room for pointing and laughing at the audience.
Throw in Bandai Namco there too, but yeah it's pretty much the problem. When you have a few big conglomerates basically deciding and controlling what content gets made pandering to the lowest common denominator for a quick turn around and easy buck.....well I'll just say it sure doesn't look a hell of a lot different from Hollywood or the gaming industry. Japan's pretty much just caught up to us when it comes to how they handle their entertainment since they always seem to be lagging about a decade behind.
>You won't buy anime even if it remains the same, so what's the problem?
The otaku will. Yet you will continue to insult and degrade them for funding your hobby because you are an ungrateful fuck.
I read plenty of manga, and that's why I tend to enjoy it more these days. But you're flat-out wrong if you try to say that there didn't used to be more mature-themed anime than there is these days.
Rebuild 3.33's only message was "buy more merchandise of the stuff Anno wants you to buy".
That's literally it.
3.33+1.11 isn't going to change that the previous one was filled to the brim with shit writing and horrible plot devices, which only serve to feed otaku.
Anno is in the OP complaining about having to commercialize to stay alive, when that is completely unneccessary for his own Evangelion franchise, which is popular enough to attract viewers almost regardless of content.
3.33 which is a rather poor movie still does very, very well because it was filled with pandering.
>anime needs to be more creative
This is how you spot an idiot. If you want anime to be "creative", you should bitch at the writers of the source material; manga and LNs which is the source of said anime. If you really want more "creative" anime, you should actually buy said anime and source material, or else you're just a freeloading bastard crying at "the death of anime" for the 10th time.
Creativity in this case would be going against the natural order of things. Before you piss your pants, no one is saying that will make for inherently better anime. It's just a matter of wanting the industry to not constantly appeal to various factors when creating their shows, whether commercial, otaku, or otherwise.
>Actually, what I'd like is more mature series that feature real issues in society,
You actually want anime and manga to be more realistic, taking away the thing that makes it so good?
FUCK OFF. IF YOU WANT REALISTIC ISSUES THEN GO READ A FUCKING BOOK.
>You have to actually sell this to someone.
What? Are you replying to the right post?
I was asking how exactly does it effect you if there's different kinds of shows?
Like I said, people are still going to pander to you regardless so it's not like you're missing out on anything.
>threatening to do the same with Ghibli's Nausicaa.
But Ghibli's Nausicaa is already a shit adaption. I'll take Anno's version any day if he's planning to adapt the manga more closely than the movie.
Marketing ploy, yes.
Criticism towards otaku? Nope. It's not criticizing to them and pandering at the same time.
Important to the plot? You can't say that, and the plot is so weak and poorly written that this point wouldn't matter one bit anyway.
It remains a marketing ploy, QED
3.33 was shit because of pants-on-head retarded writing.
>Shinji Ikari, TOTAL BADASS wakes up after being in hibernation for 14 years
>EVERYBODY IS STILL SO MAD THEY WON'T EVEN TALK TO HIM ABOUT ANYTHING
>he fucks outta that femnazi shitheap with his waifu Rei
>ends up in completely abandoned NERV HQ which is apparently being run entirely by two old men
>cue 30 minutes of immensely pretentious piano faggotry
People tend to spout bullshit like this because many western anime fans simply do not have the requisite underpinnings to understand the aesthetics of moe anime. They are still obsessed with narratives, while there has been a trend in the anime industry over the last several years to drift more and more towards a type of characterization with fetishistic realism as the main theme of many anime productions.
People invest themselves in anime as a hobby, and then get offended when they see a show they do not like; they act as if the Japanese should be making these shows for them, which is just downright retarded.
Anime is not a genre, it is a medium, and within that medium there are so many different types of stories that are told. It is naive to think that just because you like one show that you should like all of them, but there are many people who seem to be labouring difficultly under that assumption.
If you don't like moe anime, that's fine, don't watch it, but until you can manage to present a unified voice convincing enough to tell the companies that produce anime that they should take the financial risk to create shows that cater to YOU, the incredibly small western market that pirates everything, stop complaining that the medium is dominated by shows that will keep these companies in business.
Stop acting like you are entitled to 20 new titles every season that you love. If this is your attitude, then I would suggest that you have made a terrible mistake in choosing anime to be your hobby.
>Yet you will continue to insult and degrade them for funding your hobby because you are an ungrateful fuck.
The otaku need to leave.
Anime has potential of attracting a better audience than a bunch of manchildren.
There wasn't more "mature-themed anime" in the past than now. The main difference is just that most shows are made for otakus instead of little kids.
I'm not that much of a Deepfag, but I want the retarded harem antics to stop, at least.
Do we really need this shit in every anime?
This is why SnK is great in the first place: Eren doesn't a harem.
Anime with a harem = automatic garbage.
You're the dumbfuck calling rotoscoping an animation style and you still think you have any standing to call someone else a retard?
Stop drooling on your keyboard, you mongoloid
If the otaku stopped buying anime there would be no anime industry. It would be like the cartoon industry in America. A few new shows a year all aimed at children to sell toys.
At least he never went back to Amuro on White Base during the One Year War. Anno could slap the Eva name of anything and have it sell, as Rebuild shows, so it's disappointing that he's not capitalizing on that freedom to do something really new but is instead spending a decade on another iteration of the same story
No matter how many you bows you attach to it trying to make excuses for his hypocrisy, the fact is that he can't laugh at anything while he has kept his work a fanservice trap of epic proportions.
Tell this to Fate fans and watch them flip out. It's pretty much true though along with the fact that the people that follow this sort of stuff have been far to empowered by the industry and vice versa and it's turning the whole thing into kind of a laughing stock as you have these angry idiot fanboys and egotistical industry types commenting all the time like they have anything to be particularly proud of.
Seriously next time anyone reading this gets a chance and who hasn't already step inside a Fate/Stay Night thread for example and look at the many ways in which this fanbase goes around acting like they're cock of the walk and entitled to be shitty about things to anyone that dares question what they have to say cause the industry is pandering to them at the moment and making them feel special with their new big budget adaptation of it.
3.0 is even more pandering than 2.0 though. They all pander to the monster that is the "EVA FAN AUDIENCE", only the non-retarded members of that group have picked up that the movies aren't going anywhere.
There is no "bait and switch", there is an increasing amount of pandering with each movie. Unless "bait and switch" refers to how baited you into thinking it wouldn't be shit.
I'm not the anon you were originally replying to.
Nobody panders to me, I only buy merch and then only in comparatively small quantities. I would love it if there were many different kinds of shows being made, but I am not the customer. The industry's function is to sell to the customer. Each project is an investment, and you can't just make something different and invest in it like throwing shit against the wall and hoping it sticks. You'll go bankrupt.
>distributed on Web and as smartphone aps
Oh no. Ass-kicking Studio 4°C clips for Utada Hikaru's “Exodus” were LQ .wmv files and still hasn't been released in any other format.
>Hardly anyone remembers it anymore
You're running into your own arguments now.
You gave DBZ, sailor moon, and Eva as examples of anime which were popular in the west and all three of those aired in America during the 90s.
If you were exposed to anime in America during that time it there was a good chance it was on Toonami, if you're familiar with Toonami then you will know what gundam is regardless of whether or not you tuned in to watch it.
>Anime isn't for you.
Sorry if I bed to differ, but I've been watching anime for over 20 years, so I'm gonna have to disagree with you.
Fuck off, anime is more than just the shit you jack off to. Animation can be a wicked wonderland of pure visible imagination, but for some reason people with no social life see it as their personal crack whore.
The adding of one girl isn't it, really. It's a minor point.
It's forgetting characterization, plot and developments in favor of scenes and fanservice otaku will love regardless of how well it's structured.
The third one is the biggest sinner so far, showing you shallow characters with no real background or characterization, (zero development) who only look cool and act as plot devices for the entire duration of the movie.
Evangelion went from being regarded as a serious story, to just a yaoi fantasy with 3.0.
Those retards don't know what they want, they just what something "new" just because it's "new" and they could how other how edgy and have, obviously, noble taste, while trowing around generalized accusations how everything else is bad.
I'm not arguing anime is bubble. I'm making fun of your argument that "Sales are better than ever" means it's not a bubble. First requirement of a bubble are high sales, so you won't know until it bursts.
It's old Evafags being pissed off that Rebuild didn't live up to their expectations or standards. That's it at its core, really.
Though if I had to give genuine criticism, the character development is severely lacking, but I can't blame Khara when they're trying to cram everything in with four 2-hour movies.
>implying autistic DEEPfags have any say in the anime industry
Let them rage and cry all they want.
In the end, the only winner are the productions companies like Kadokawa.
How is it nostalgia goggles, that's pretty much as dispassionate a post as you can get describing what Cool Japan was. Stop attributing shit to posts that isn't even being said.
I can see you're already braindead, as well. If you've been watching this shit this long, and you're still complaining it's not deep enough for you, grow the fuck up and look into other mediums for things that are.
>It's forgetting characterization, plot and developments in favor of scenes and fanservice
And that panders to otaku how? That's standard movie shit buddy. You're comparing films to a 26 episode TV show.
If the Rebuild films were literally a reprisal of the TV series then what the fuck would be the point?
Pretty much this
I don't think these casuals and normalfags understand that if harem LN adaptation #999 goes away, there will just have less anime, not that there will be some amazing new super DEEP anime in its place
The first two aren't that bad, even though they have pandering. This is forgiven by most since Evangelion also has corresponding amounts of lighthearted comedy, and technically has a bit more than Rebuild during the first two. As long as they keep developing characters as well as the plot, and do it well, it's not the worst kind of "pandering" there is.
But the jar just flows over with 3.33, where they drop all pretense of trying to craft something well-made, and just go for the simplest solution:
Shallow characters, presentation-value ONLY. Cute things happening or extreme amounts of melodrama with pairing fanservice, the highlight of the movie being Kaworu x Shinji.
So there's very little sense, but a lot of pure aesthetic value. Lots of girls/boys to obsess and ship. That's what it amounted to.
I don't see where this 'anime is dead' shit is coming from. Just look at what we're getting this season
>Shingeki no Bahamut
Nice job completely ignoring the main point.
Sailor Moon is known by people who don't even know or care about anime. Far less people outside the anime fandom know what Gundam is. Despite your constant claims otherwise.
People know plenty of things Gundam inspired. Like Mech Warrior, Pacific Rim, etc. But they don't know what Gundam is unless they are actively interested in anime.
They are just a small market though.
There is literally a whole world of people that probably would buy anime if it wasn't about being trapped in a videogame and/or wanting to fuck your sister.