Discussion about the making or playing of Original English Language Visual Novels save for the ones from /ksg/.
Do you have a question about a Japanese visual novel or a translation of it?
/vn/ is ready to answer it.
For Developers. Huge collection of guides on everything:
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Remember to BUMP THE FUCKING THREAD every three hours please.
They also did the CGs for this game a long while back. I thought I had seen their logo before.
I think that I actually care if plots are cliche or not and so do audiences generally. Largely because there is an element of fatigue that occurs when you revisit a setting/scenario for the hundredth time-- while it's always possible that someone will strike gold, more often than not everything they say is something you've already heard before.
The themes, ideas, and plot elements that are contained within the High School Setting have been pretty well explored. In Visual Novels and Anime/Manga series are forced high school settings even if they have no logical reason to be there. Once you start to use the setting the limits of the logic of that setting start making your world and story increasingly unoriginal.
There are cliches that have such a wealth of possibilities that they are worth exploring-- but the High School Setting cliche more often than not is infertile grounds that are not going to lead to things that capture our interest and instead lead to a feeling of "not again".
I think the "not again" element of fatigue is what makes cliches bad.
If your premise makes it harder to write something fun and interesting-- rather than raise the difficulty of the entire project, why not just find a better premise? Just because you can make a tree grow in the desert does not mean you should.
If loli is illegal in my country, can I get away with just not stating the ages of the characters involved or must I lie and put the obligatory 'despite appearances all characters featured in this game are 18+? I don't want to go to jail.
It's not a subject you can get an easy one-off answer to.
There are VN players who are angry about having any gameplay in the game. If the gameplay is difficult, it makes it hard for them to get their endings. If the gameplay is time-consuming, it makes replaying to get different endings much more onerous. Many people play VNs because they lack the skills to play 'normal' games, or actually don't like them.
On the other hand, adding gameplay makes your game much more appealing to groups of players who find "just reading" dull and need to be lured in. A lot of people will feel that your game is a more quality experience if it is more interactive, and sing its praises. Big successes in the West tend to have more gameplay.
You're playing a dangerous game, friend. You might get away with saying they're all 18 but whether that flies or not depends on how they're feeling that day. It still looks like "simulated cp" or whatever term they use these days to justify throwing people in jail for it.
Alright, I ask because whilst no one in my country has been arrested for loli possession, producing it (even by proxy) carries a much higher sentence, I imagine. They'd probably make an example of the first person to get convicted for it, too. There was one guy who got a notice from the police for uploading loli content to sadpanda.
I didn't think people would still be discussing this.
My idea was to try and capture what made Brick enjoyable and unique (transposing the themes and aesthetics of one genre into a different setting typically used with different themes). It is rather gimicky, to subvert the genre expectations of a particular setting, but I thought it would be novel.
My general idea was to transpose the plot something like the Voyage of the Argos or Beowulf into a high school setting, both because of my love of the mythology and because I think there's a certain cleverness in refluffing the specific trappings into a more mundane setting
There are disabled people playing VNs using screenreaders. They are not a huge proportion of gamers, but yes, I have met a number of people who play VNs because they can't play much else.
Mixing settings like that is cool and can lead to some interesting things, I'm just suggesting that for best effect, I would not transpose into high school for a VN. A lot of people will be so busy rolling their eyes at you, they won't appreciate what you've done.
Have you considered an office scenario instead?
If someone's going to stomp around saying NO ONE WILL OBJECT TO GAMEPLAY i think it's valid to point out that some will.
There are people who don't want gameplay, and complain about it being added, and request that it all be skippable, and want Visual Novel Mode in their action games. Not all for disability reasons, some just for taste reasons. That doesn't mean you have to cater to them, but pretending they don't exist is silly.
That is your opinion. Have you actually looked at polling results? I know Winter Wolves has had large sections of his audience complain that they are only playing for the VN and wish the gameplay would stop getting in their way.
That could work. Actually, now I'm thinking of putting into a Western or Vietnam War setting, since I love those movies as well as the time periods they reflect
>inb4 It Ain't Me by the Fortune Sons
In that case, you may as well give up now, son. No matter what your idea is, someone has done it before in some medium, and no possible amount of fresh new spin on the subject could ever be interesting to anyone at all, so you may as well throw in the towel and become a plumber.
I'm arguing the exact opposite if you paid any attention to my posts. It doesn't matter how cliche your setting is is or how many people done it before, what matters is how you do it.
I know my mother, my roommate, a couple of cashiers at the grocery store, my three coworkers, and my father.
I know five fully blind people, one person with a missing eye, two partially blind, and one who is slowly going blind.
So I think given that not all of them are completely blind, it balances out somewhere at 'eh'.
But isn't the amount of effort required to put a work around in 'do you want to play the tactical scenarios?' and yes takes you to the tactics and no takes you past them?
Your source basically explains how fictional depictions of loli and shota are legal as long as your public defender has a pulse, where as if you were to have the same things in Britain you would be arrested almost on the spot.
Why aren't you cashing in on your own Huniepop ripoff?
Look at all this hot $$$ you could be getting.
Most of the cases involved REAL porn as well as fake porn, learn to read.
See the following.
Attorneys for Mr. Whorley have said that they would appeal to the Supreme Court. The request for rehearing was denied on June 15, 2009, and the petition for his case to be reviewed by the Supreme Court was denied on January 11, 2010. A major part of the case was that Whorley also received real child pornography in the form of several cutouts from clothing magazines depicting human female children in swimwear.[c
In January 2011, Kutzner was sentenced to serve 15 months in federal prison for downloading, receiving, and viewing sexually explicit images of actual children for at least eight years
2011 Maine case
In November 2011, Joseph Audette, a 30-year-old computer network administrator from Surry, Maine, was arrested after his username was linked to child pornography sites. A search inside Audette's home did not result in any real child pornography, but did result in the findings of "anime child pornography". Much unlike previous cases (and likely due to the results of the Handley ruling), the charges were quickly dismissed under Maine law and dropped under federal law.
Thanks for your answers senpai.
I've been working on improving my art over the past months but I feel like I'm losing motivation, so I thought maybe working towards a set goal would be better. I've never released anything so I've been thinking of a plot for a short, fun VN, freeware of course. The Valentine's setting just came into my mind by chance, but with exams and all I wouldn't be able to finish it in a month.
Do whatever Fuchur did.
Even if you're selling it, I don't think anyone will really care unless your game's popularity explodes and everyone knows about it, or you advertise it on feminist frequency.
Wait. The "real" child pornography he received was from magazine cutouts of kids in swimsuits? Sure that's probably not something one should be collecting, but to consider it child porn is pretty fucked up.
>There was one guy who got a notice from the police for uploading loli content to sadpanda.
It scares me how they figure these things out.
Unless of course he did so right in front of a police officer.
Nodev lurker here. I'm so goddamn fed up with japanese high schools that I sometimes end up discarding a series or a VN based solely on whether it has school in it. While execution matters, as shown by DysSys or even select routes of that one novel that has its own general, you'll have a hard time proving a customer like me your product isn't just another japanese high school with a shy girl, an ADHD girl, a XVIII century girl, a tomboy, an annoying girl, and flavor of the day Beowulf spices thrown in. In a setting that isn't high school, mecha, or magical girls, you can slap those things together and I'll lap it up.
Uh-huh. It'd be nice knowing more about what I'm walking into. I don't really see any cyberpunk EVNs and I was curious if I was walking into cliche territory without knowing it.
Familiarise yourself with the fucking laws and much more importantly, existing practice.
Seriously, avoid walking this rope as much as possible. Loli isn't exactly outlawed in my country, but the department trying to regulate the internets has blocked the major boorus for hosting hentai in general, and judging by how happy courts are to hand out sentences, any loli VN has the potential to become a demonstrative case.
TOR and I2N are your friends.
Here's some highlights I found interesting from the latest Rising Angels: Fates update.
-There will be a sequel to Fates.
-Rising Angels Hope will be free and be available to backers in early February, and to the rest of us sometime later.
-IDHAS is considering releasing Fates episodically in 4 parts.
>There has been a proposed idea in the studio. With all elements of Fates Act 1 almost coming together finally, the idea was floated that we could release each act of Fates’s 4 acts separately, 1 every 1.5-2 months. Each act would be roughly a couple hours per route. With Steam, we could do it with relative ease with updates.
If you're here IDHAS, any chance of releasing the original Red Rose on Steam when Hope gets released?
>complain about people leaving bottles
>no option to put it in the rubbish bin that's literally right beside it
They don't call it life is tumblr for no reason.
>Гдe, тeм вpeмeнeм, yжe нaчaлa пoтихoнькy coбиpaтьcя тoлпa.
>being unable to into truncated sentences
>в, pacкpытyю нacтeж, двepь.
Statistically speaking, it's worth saying that there are more females than males on /evn/ and you're severely limiting those feels by targeting people with a dick.
There are like no straight guys here, so next time just talk about insertion without a specific hole in mind so you'll get both demographic targets.
>it's worth saying that there are more females than males on /evn/
You mean to say I've been talking to grils for the first time in my recluse neet life all this time? It's a good thing I'm apparently gay or I would totally freak out right now.
I agree with you that
>There's no such thing as bisexual men.
However I'd replace
>Only gay men struggling to come to terms with their sexuality.
>Only straight men who can't get pussy and need a warm hole from anyone.
>tfw no bisexual harem VN ever
Games with one or two gay options don't count. I'm talking shameless, every girl and guy is out for your nonspecific hole and fighting for your affection self insert fantasy.
have you not seen any sci-fi movies/tv shows that take place in a spaceship?
I was just having a giggle mate, it's a VN where rape and mindbreak each take more space than sco-fi backgrounds.
Go on vndb and filter the novels by a space-related tag, that's your best bet.
What benefit does he get from that sort of release? He's done the entire core of the story and passed it to the voice actors, so it's not like he is getting feedback and adapting with each section's release. Almost all of the non-writing assets are complete, so he doesn't need the extra funding for the game.
The only reason I can think why he'd seriously consider it is hidden in that post. He'd release Hope, ride that spike of interest and visibility with Fates, keep it going with each act release while working on the sequel he is talking about, and then use that to drive up interest in the sequel since people are still mostly invested. It's an interesting and possibly smart move if he could keep that wave going. If not, it is just going to piss a lot of people off.
The last time I did post anything I was told that my writing was like reading a badly translated visual novel, and I doubt I have improved at all, but since ded thread is ded I might as well post the drafts for my bad ends.
I think it is just a bit too inspired from other visual novels that you have read and it feels like it is just executing these tropes without being conscious of them, why they exist, etc.
The characters all sound like characters I have read before. The diction and wording are needlessly awkward or out of touch with how people actually speak in the English language.
First ending -- Old English, character seems to be a copy of Meiya/Saber something like that. The stilted old-fashioned phrasing is okay, but doesn't really have the impact that you seem to intend. Descriptions are okay but all of them seem to be really short. Also, you do not explain the setting at all in the intro to the bad ends (i.e. where are the characters while saying these things). Some area description is in order.
Second ending-- Seen this a million times. Feels like an inferior copy of any of the witches from Umineko or any bad end where a character ends up helpless with some sadist girl. The ~ and heart symbols are particularly offensive--why are you using them? Because you saw it in some other VN? Is that really enough of a reason?
Third ending-- Copied Japanese laugh sound. "Eh?" Why did you write that (see rant above). Also makes too little sense. Not enough description.
So those are the issues, now onto what is good and some advice.
So what is good is that you have decent vocabulary. While the ideas aren't original, you are able to replicate scenes you have read before and capture part of their atmosphere and feeling.
The more you are able to do that and the more you practice, the better you are going to get.
I think most of the issues are a result of reading too many visual novels and not enough actual novels. I think you should read more real books before returning to writing, because your frame of reference is skewed and it affects your overall writing.
You'll dramatically improve just by reading other material. Just my thoughts.
I felt compelled to use old English since the character speaking is of royal descent. I know of the characters you mention but I've never read their source material personally. I wanted to keep these endings short because I imagine no reader wants to pay attention to what they realize to be a 'bad' ending for too long.
Again, I know of the series you're talking about but I've never watched them myself so its not like I'm intentionally trying to mimic them. I used them because I wanted to convey how childish and delusional the character is.
I did think about replacing it with 'hah', or 'what' as I was concerned it sounded to out of place.
I don't know if it helps my case any that all of these scenes will have CG's which will hopefully better convey the kind of effect I'm going for. Thank you very much for your well thought out concrit, I'll learn from it.
>I think most of the issues are a result of reading too many visual novels and not enough actual novels.
You are right on the money there. I used to read all the time as a child, but as I got older became more disillusioned with modern literature (I had a very long spell of reading what turned out to be completely putrid, not even worth the paper it's printed on books). I can't even remember the name of the last book I read to completion.
I'll try your suggestions out before writing again.
>Feels like an inferior copy of any of the witches from Umineko
tfw no forcing Ellen and Virginia to kiss your soul burn better
tfw no Potsdam option
tfw no Minnie option.
Got a little exercise for you. Try writing a scene between 300-1000 words without using "I". It's not a big problem to use "I" a lot, but diversifying your sentence structure and choice of words is always a good thing. It also makes it much less repetitive to read.
Apart from that, I don't have much to add on top of what the other anon said. Read more.
>What benefit does he get from that sort of release?
>-Fates in your hands faster
>-Smaller pieces for those of you like me who can’t sink a lot of time into games in any one sitting (until it was fully released; then you'd have to marathon it)
This could be meant to make it seem cheaper than what it is, because only the Zuri route is free, so breaking it into 4 cheaper parts might make people more likely to pay for the other routes.
>-There’d be stops for those of you who want to marathon
>-It would be that nasty e-word.
I'm curious how the true routes free approach is going to go over. People could see it as an extensive demo, or they could complain about vn dlc, which people don't tend to think vns should have.
After looking at the plot outline I'm writing, I think I'm going to cutback on the cyberpunk idea. I like some of the designs, but the story is more dark and gritty sci-fi than cyberpunk.
Why do you ask?
If you're trying to verify that you have the right to use some particular resource free because it's a non-commercial game, in many cases, you might want to just ask the resource-holder, if they're available.
If you're giving the end product away free, it IS a non-commercial project, but some people might feel that if you raised $100K to make that free game, a nominal donation for their free-for-free-games resource might be polite. (If you raise only $1K and you need all that for the art then not an issue really.)
Well I see the difference between artists charging for commercial vs non commercial art and I was worried that the possibility of crowdfunding meant the project would become commercial since it had money being poured into it. I only need to fundraise for the art, I'm happy to fund the rest of it myself.
Why there isn't a BL game about a glam metal is beyond me, considering that many of them grope each other way more than any fan could ever hope for.
>I want good art
>I don't want to pay more than chump change
>boohoo why do these college students and kids keep flaking out on me
>it's totally because all artists are subhuman garbage and not me being comically inept at conducting business and choosing contractors
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
If you aren't willing to take it to the level of a named accusation, you might as well not complain.
You know what's funny is my team for an old project gradually fell apart one by one while I took up their work until I was just me and someone who thought he was way more important than he was, and it became impossible to continue.
I was the artist. All I got for my efforts was an assload of criticism initially, the viewers insisting on almost nothing but gay content (in a straight game), and near immediate loss of interest when I failed to keep up with all the work everyone had abandoned.
>tfw a decent artist finally contacts you after wading through a sewer of only the shit ones
Can't wait to taste the sweet suffering of despair when they get back to me with a quote.
Well, no, you shouldn't pay them up front. Many will insist on partial payment up front, though, or at least partial payment at sketch stage.
Note - having paid an artist half the cost and demonstrated that you are completely willing to pay them does not stop them from disappearing on you.
>paying someone in full upfront
>not having short deadlines that can easily be enforced with PayPal's refund system
Pay per assets, you fucking mongrels. Will you ever learn? If your artist takes longer than two weeks to deliver one single asset, it's just not going to work out in the long run.
Half upfront, paid per asset. If something doesn't work out, PayPal refund. If they argue, file a dispute and win because you kept track of the conversation through e-mail. If everything goes well, pay the rest.
As simple and safe as it gets dealing with internet people.
They have an email conversation that's linked to your IP.
'Hey cops, someone stole from me after we had a written contract that I would be paid money for services rendered'.
And then the cops are like 'shit nigga we're on it'.
>This doesn't prevent you getting fucked.
It literally does in every aspect but wasting time, which is always a risk when you're doing anything with other people. You have money, great. You can usually use it to encourage good work ethics, but nothing but the other party can guarantee that.
It's just not in your control regardless of how you do this.
So the idea is to basically make sure people know that you're commissioning someone for shaming purposes later (and documentation), but also to seem like a gracious customer if they come through?
That seems brilliant!
It both reinforces that the commissioner is a good person, and casts the artist as dirty, irredeemable scum if they back out on the deal without returning the money!
I'd take it more as good advertisement for both your project and the popular artist involved, rather than simply setting them up for shaming if they don't deliver. But yeah, there's also that.
The carrot is a nice reward, but the stick is more the point.
Artists would think twice about not delivering if they were praised for delivering and scorned for taking your money and running, and being acknowledged as a cash thief hurts their ability to do it again.
That's the whole point of paying a premium for someone with a good reputation to begin with. Not only have they already proven themselves, it adds that extra layer of protection in that they wouldn't want to tarnish the image they've worked hard for. They would already know this full well going in. Creating something positive out of the collaboration by advertising their involvement as benefit, rather than treating it like a threat in an attempt to keep them in line would be far more beneficial for both parties and make for a more pleasant experience.
If you don't have the money for that, then you're most likely not going to be able to hire anyone with a decent reputation, and that's where it gets sketchy and no amount of threats or praise is going to do you any good.
>Trying to figure out how you make save files nameable in renpy
>None of the topics about the subject are clear
>he didn't write his own engine like xXxTruCodeGodexXx
People with less of a reputation, or none at all, have very little to lose in comparison.
Moral fiber is only half the story as well. Not everyone is out to simply walk off with the money. Sometimes people just get in over their heads because they don't have that experience, didn't know what to expect, overestimates themselves, and underestimates the work. When you're attempting to "hire" unkknowns, you're really just taking a gamble. You may get an artist who will become somebody, simply thinks they'll become somebody, or has no intention of becoming anyone and will happily make off with your cash.
But people who DON'T want to rob you ALWAYS have the option to be like 'Sorry man, I can't, here's your cash back' or 'can I repay you in installments'?
The options aren't always 'finish the job you were paid for' or 'cut and run, becoming a thief'.
I'm trying to address problems with bringing in people who haven't proven themselves in general. Sure they could mean well and pay you back, but it's not always that simple. You might be paying them per image, but they could give up after having done 5. Simply up and leave, often without saying anything, because they realize they're in over their heads or don't enjoy it, but don't want to deal with the fallout. You're now stuck with these 5 random images they deserve to have been paid for. Unless you want to compromise and mash together different drawing styles and qualities, you've not only lost money, you've also wasted your time.
I'm not condoning blatant frauds and swindlers, but I know how difficult it is to be the artist for a visual novel, especially if you have no stakes in or passion for the project, let alone experience.
Now if only established artists weren't overcharging out of greed/economic difficulty.
It's part of the reason I've given up on being interested in VN making in any capacity other than a writer.
go away poacher
come back once you've had to sift through over 50 DA artists messaging you and having only 3 of them be anywhere near decent, and then having those 3 trying to charge you over $1k
>rarely do they actually come up with unreasonable prices though
So have I just been getting shafted then? Seriously the cheapest I've been quoted is $650 and thats as a starting price.
This wasn't on lemma, but there was quite a bit of pestering, with some demanding. Essentially one project collapsed and the developer was absorbed by us. But the fans of that developer were not happy at all about what happened, and only really followed us because they knew that developer had joined and that the two projects were similar. Only, obviously, theirs had gay content, and we did not.
Some were quite pleasant in their inquiries. Others acted like they were entitled to the free game the other developer was making and that they deserved to be catered to just for being part of the community. Which might have been understandable if we had a patreon or kickstarter and it wasn't mostly just me at that point (the developer we brought in had long since left without a word) trying to make something I cared about on my own time for free.
Many mistakes were made.
>If you request your commission to be private which will not be displayed in my gallery or anywhere for a period of time or forever, extra fee of 30% of the commission price will be charged
This is ridiculous. To not spoil your project, you have to pay them extra, and quite a bit extra.
Give it to me straight, is this:
for >>126890538 amount of work worth $975?
The gallery is composed of two different artists which is why there is such a style gap.
>the fans of that developer were not happy at all about what happened, and only really followed us because they knew that developer had joined and that the two projects were similar.
>the developer we brought in had long since left without a word
If the fans of that dev knew about them leaving, then they should've known it was pointless to keep bothering you, since the people who had the vision for that other vn weren't even there anymore.
It was just me and two friends initially. It wasn't even my project. I just cared about it a lot, but it became apparent over time that their interest was waning and that I didn't have the skillset to manage everything and do nearly all the work by myself.
It was some time before they left, some time later when he lied about his absence and came back, and then left again and I realized he wasn't coming back. By that point they were quite situated and had acclimated to my art. They had lost all faith in that developer and I was their only hope to get what they were originally after was the way I saw it.
If only their translations lived up to their designs
well, at least they're drawing art that's related to the story, even if the assets can't be used within the story? it shows they're dedicated to the vn, at any rate! they wouldn't drawing extra, unneeded art assets if they weren't enjoying themselves or didn't like the story.
I'd still take it a positive sign. Having an artist who draws lots of unnecessary lewds for your story is better than an aritst who draws nothing at all. And you can also include the other art in an 'extras' section that can be unlocked after the player has finished the vn, people like stuff like that.
Yeah, I'm just bitching. When we complete or fail this project though, I'm writing a story tailored to that turbodyke. Submissive loli, tentacles, whatever. She's got potential.
My artist also drew lots of unnecessary art for my VN, to the detriment of some of the assets I actually wanted, so I feel your pain. It worked out in the end, though.
It's kind of nice knowing they're that inspired they want to use their spare time to work on stuff you don't want/need, but at the same time it's kind of like... 'O-OK, but I want to get along and finish my project, can we focus please...'
Speaking of this, I was thinking of compiling a clear documentation somewhere. Kinda like the cookbook and quickstart, but with searchable keywords to help find things. Probably a wiki page would be best.
But would anyone besides me contribute? That's the question.
I think you're getting a steal, as long as they're quick. Hopefully you get the artist with the style you like, since some of the sprites on the gallery look nicer than others.
They said their usual rates are two times as much as what they're charging me, they're discounting it on the basis that this is going to be 'long term project', so I don't know about their speed. I'll request a sketch from them of the characters in the style that I want and see if I want to make it final.
They originally quoted me "$65-$90 per artwork"
and then their breakdown upon description is:
a couple thigh up cg w/bg x2 (2 characters in 2 artworks) $70 x 2 = $140
a couple full body w/bg CG x3 (2 characters in 3 artworks) $75 x 3 = $225
a couple waist up CG w/bg x2 (2 characters in 2 artworks) $65 x 2 = $130
a couple bust up CG w/bg (2 characters in 1 artworks) $60
a single bust up CG w/bg (1 characters in 1 artworks) $45
a group CG with 4 fullbody characters w/bg (4 characters in 1 artworks) $120
3 thigh up sprites
full-colored $85 x 3 characters = $255
I asked them why the sprites were more expensive than the CG's and they replied:
"1 character consist of :
3 sprites, $20 each
5 expression, $5 each
So, total $85
And if there is 3 characters, then total $255
I usually charge about $120"
A story about how an eighteen year old loli would probably not have proper hormone flows and, while socially interested in appearing adult, would probably be asexual.
Eventually you end up cucking her for a proper girl.
I think Secret Sorrow of the Siblings is pretty close to that.
>Kaito and Rikuto are twins and they have a younger sister named Arisa. Though they are twins, the nerdy Kaito is obviously inferior to the intelligent and athletic younger twin brother, Rikuto. One night, Kaito saw his younger sister enthusiastically fellating Rikuto. Watching the spectacle while feeling the sense of being left alone, he blazed up with rage.
>Now that his twin is too busy with a baseball tournament... armed with photographs he stealthily took when the two broke the taboo, driven by hatred towards his younger sister and jealousy for his brother, it's time to enforce equality.
No, they don't have to be. But I thought it would be a good way to show the development of their relationship.
>Is that something the protagonist/love interest would want?
>Are they capable of breeding?
Normally no, but this is science fiction, I ain't gotta explain shit. Magic science babies.
>Do they desire to breed?
Very much so.
It's not about tolerance though. Remember the people complaining about Brilliant Shadows when it came out? They wanted a pure lesbian love story between 2 best friends, and when they didn't get it they were pissed off. Yuri fans don't want tolerance, they want yuri. Putting a female romance option into a yaoi game will likely raise a few eyebrows as well.
Well you should probably tell the person who said that to go back to tumblr
No, but the female best friend, who everyone assumed was the love interest, ended up straight and in love with the Warlock guy.
Sometimes going against expectation can have a negative reaction, especially on KS, where people are paying in advance for a product they assume they'll like.
The KS campaign's main selling point was "diversity", so I'm sure it was very well-received on tumblr.
I once read a Steam review for Roommates on Steam, where the person said they didn't really like the game, but upvoted it because it had diversity.
When I was looking through to see what was said about BS I ran across a VN in development that's about running a male harem and it's apparently progressive and not problematic because everybody's some shade of brown.
I wouldn't know how to feel about my project being touted as progressive/diverse because I happen to have a fetish for delicious chocolate.
>Fetish for delicious chocolate
My brother of african american descent. Darkness is the light
Glorious chocolate, but Nadia will always be the #1 in my heart.
What's a poc? Is that some sort of new racist term the kids are using these days?
I mean, I guess pock marks are black and everything, but that doesn't explain taking the k off.
When will EVNs have the courage to drop the hard truths like their Japanese counterparts?
I always assumed EVNs would be more likely to do stuff like this, since so many EVN devs are like 'our stories are very serious, we won't set them in japan because that's cliche, we're devoted to doing very realistic and inclusive stories that don't pander to the male gaze!'
Then again, there's also stuff like the Sakura series.
Well I don't think writing something based on this is necessarily pretentious, it depends how you write it and how you talk about it. When people get into 'it's better than other stories because I'm doing this totally original thing nobody else has done' territory it sounds pretentious.
Your statement kind of made it sound like the person writing the latter would be pretentious, though.
Your wording, that is.
Not that that's a tremendous deal. Your point is still valid, at least.
>we won't set them in japan because that's cliche
But every other EVN is set in """Japan""" even most of the ones by pretentious fucks who think they're better than those filthy Japanese games.
True. I have a habit of sounding more sarcastic than I really mean to.
I know lots of EVNs are set in Japan (even ones that don't need to be) but isn't that only be expected when most people who write VNs are (presumably) also into anime/manga, and VNs themselves are a predominantly Japanese medium? And most people who like VNs also probably like anime/manga, so devs probably set stuff in Japan because they think it will be more popular (or they'll get the great honor of people thinking their stuff is actually Japanese that has been TLed into English, haha).
I think EVNs could stand to be a bit more diverse, but it feels kind of inevitable this would be the case when most devs and fans probably love Japan - at least, anime Japan.
In some cases I feel it kind of makes sense to just set a story in Japan if your story is filled with anime cliches, like if it's a dating sim with a tsundere and a kuudere and a yandere or w/e. It would seem strange setting such a story in America or whatever, because those aren't tropes that are common in other media. If the story itself is more serious, or not necessarily serious, but doesn't rely on tropes borrowed from anime, then I'd say it would be best to set it elsewhere. I'm not saying it's a good thing to base story on Japanese tropes, and I do think it's overdone, and I can understand people being sick/tired of the same old, same old... But I can equally understand why Japan remains such a popular setting, and I don't think that's something that will change any time soon.
I feel like I don't know enough about anywhere in the world to realistically set any story except the country I live in... But even then, when I set stories here, I'm still hit with the sense of 'I don't know anything about my own country, I understand nothing.'
Anime tropes have very little to do with Japan as a setting. Plenty of Japanese anime, manga and even ponro powerpoint games feature those tropes without being set in Japan. It's a stupid trap most devs fall into that things have to be set in Japan to appear more authentic or their bean-sized brains can't comprehend that Japan is not an integral component to visual novels. You can't seriously believe that giving your cast embarrassingly fake Japanese names and using honorifics and the occasional Japanese flavor word (in italics if you want to make it look like a really professional fake translation!) in your generic anime school setting is necessary or remotely meaningful.
There is absolutely no reason for the overwhelming majority of EVNs that happen to be set in Japan to take place there. Your setting should be your setting for a reason (and if you really don't think it matters where you set it, set it somewhere you actually are familiar with or make up a place for fuck's sake). Or if you're really dead set on setting your ill-conceived game in Japan, maybe learn a thing or two about Japan first (or stop kidding yourself about it being anything more than your own weebness or a craven attempt at fooling the idiots who make up the consumer base for VNs in the west into thinking they're buying a "real" Japanese game and not some shitty Western imitation).
That's probably a smart decision.
>contact artist to see if they'd be willing to draw for my project, list all the themes that would be involved since some of them can be pretty excluding
>they ask how much art I would need, tell them
>they're wary and warn me that it'd pricey
>tell them I understand and expect that and I'd like a quote regardless
>they ask to see the character designs
>they're very insistent about wanting to know how serious I am about the project, ask about what I've done on the project so far
>explain what I've done and tell them I don't want to start officially writing the script until I've got an artist on board
>they message back saying they can't be on board with the project without seeing a script or at least a rough draft
What the fuck, why are they giving me the third degree over my own project?
Which is why I'm so confused, they were pretty curt/blunt throughout all of the messages too. I mean I could understand if they were worried that if I wasn't serious about the project I'd abandon it and wouldn't pay them, but their commission rules were 50% upfront which I would agreed to. It's like they don't want my money.
No, actually people bitched endlessly about it (even scenes that weren't rape) and some even demanded refunds because of it after finishing most of the game. All of the rape in the game is described as such and the MC acknowledges that it was a bad thing, but I guess a MC who isn't morally pure is too much for most tumblr types.
Of course, now, if the protag gets raped and he decides it's true love in the end, THEN it's totally cool (doubly so if the whole scene is the MC saying "no" repeatedly but no one describes the events as rape or anything close to it).
They're probably not in it for the money then. Maybe they want to see their art used in a game that's actually going to be finished. Plus, if their is no script, that means the designs/characters/scenes could change at any second, which would mean that the artist would have to redo or edit a sprite or a cg.
I would never try and pull that on artist since its unfair. It's not like I'm pulling a script out of my ass, (which I explained) every single CG/sprite/design already has a final decision made for it.
>my project being touted as progressive/diverse because I happen to have a fetish for delicious chocolate.
Don't worry, actually having a black lead won't get people to tout you as progressive.
You have to be an auto-fellatio expert to get noticed, if you can't blow your own nobody will care.
>Anime tropes have very little to do with Japan as a setting.
Anime tropes have very little to do with anything. Release your EVN and people will claim it's full of Japanese High School Tropes even if it has nothing to do with Japan, high school, or anime.
It's not unreasonable to try and contract for sprites fairly early in development, but if you don't have at least a rough outline of the script you're likely to be wrong about what you need for the art and make them go back and do things over again later, which they find annoying.
(I also have an artist who I've offered money but who doesn't want to do the art until I ever get around to writing the scenes in question. She has a point, considering how long the project's been on a back burner...)
You should at least have something to show other than "hey guys look I have an idea please draw for me." I get you're paying them but imagine being slated to do x amount of pieces but you only do y because the project lead flakes because they had no idea how much work it was all going to be. You got paid for your time, but your work went down the train.
There is no point in drawing for a visual novel that might never get completed. I want to make sure I'm not going to spend months of my time for nothing.
Having drawn for a fair few VNs and finished them: a lot of artists aren't going to work on projects that haven't started yet because doing so usually leads to lots of wasted effort and art for a script that never gets finished.
Even if you're paying (I don't know if you're >>126948492 or just replying), I'd still say that an artist won't necessarily be able to give you a precise quote because sprites vary depending on the number of poses, the type of hair style and outfit and the expressions, while the CGs also vary due to things like exaggerated perspectives, number of characters and type of background (if any).
The fewer projects the artist you're contacting has under their belt, the harder it is to try and calculate how much the assets might end up taking to draw. All I think you could get is quote ranges for each asset type - which is what I think is weird with >>126948492's account: I wouldn't expect anyone to promise to be available in a particular period of time if the writer hasn't even started working, but it should be possible to give an estimate range of prices and make it clear that the artist will have to fill in slots while the writer is writing and they won't necessarily be available when they're ready to get art.
Unless you really already decided how much art you need in detail, which seems weird if there's no script in place.
>You got paid for your time, but your work went down the train.
Why would this be a problem? It's commissioned work, and it's pretty common for (non VN) games to end up with tons of unused assets.
Now that, to me, is an example of 'looks like a man'. Yes, there are badly-drawn breast curves pasted on, but the hair, the square eyes, the big jaw, the broad shoulders, the complete lack of hips, everything says male to me.
I know that feel. I don't think the UK is a very appealing setting for anyone who lives outside of it, unless it's the stereotypical portrayal which isn't entirely accurate.
I'm not really fond of the america setting either. I don't really have the experience to portray it properly past what I've seen in US media (and I'm not really fond of most of it really. I just don't like their style of doing things). Our culture is a lot closer than Japan's is, but I still feel like it'd result in the same sort of issues.
I am that OP.
>Unless you really already decided how much art you need in detail
I had done. I have a script, its just in my head not in an engine yet.
Anyway, I messaged them asking why it was an issue and they immediately backed out, stating that it was "too awkward" for them and that the content involved was "outside" of what they were willing to draw, and that they "don't want to start on a project without knowing what the end result will look like", so good riddance to them. It just narrows down the prospective pool.
>I don't think the UK is a very appealing setting for anyone who lives outside of it
I don't think urban UK life is much of a draw, although you might get a few hits for the novelty. Lucky Rabbit Reflex does the UK just enough that you'll recognise it if you know, and it won't be too confusing if you don't.
On the other hand if you pull back to a nice picturesque little town/village you could get an appealing setting out of it. I've lived in some pretty boring parts of the UK that are at least nice to look at, and if the story is mostly focused on character interactions you won't have to get deep into what the background locals are actually like.
If there is a substantial swing in votes one way or another I may pay some attention to it. Tiny numbers of votes, no, not really, especially considering the number of idiots who will rate games that haven't come out yet, or downvote games jsut because they're EVNs and therefore don't deserve upvotes
I'll use everyone's favorite punching bag 50 Shades to tell you that even if millions of people rate it, even positively so, that doesn't mean it's worth your time. There are VNs on the first page of top rated games I despise.
Where is 50 shades on the top rated list of anything? Completely different situation. I'll take the avg. rating of a few hundred or thousand VN readers over a single contrarian one. Your despising of these top rated games, in terms of VN players, is clearly in the minority opinion.
In terms of score aggregation sites like vndb? Usually, yes. If a large amount of people vote on a game and it ends up with a high score, chances are high that there is something of merit to that game and it will be worth playing.
... yes, so? I'm not sure what exactly you want here. There is no metric of value that absolutely everyone is going to agree with. If a large number of people like something, then odds are that a randomly selected person is more likely to like it than something that everyone appears to hate. But there's no guarantees because people have their own personal tastes.
I just don't see why setting something in Japan is necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, it's overdone, and people are tired of it, but if somebody wants to write that I'd say just let them. I just don't think it's such a big deal, and if you don't like those kinds of stories, don't read them...?
More and more EVNs are being set out of Japan now anyway, like Backstage Pass, Over the Hills, things by InvertMouse, several things by HanakoGames, so there should be enough non-'Japanese' set EVNs for you.
So the review votes are completely useless. Unless you know why someone gave the score they did, there's no point in using it to determine whether something's worth your time. Given that VNs aren't books, they're not rated solely on their text.
It is useful for some people though. Put it this way: if you play a bunch of VNs and agree with the average score given on that site, then you can be fairly confident that you have "mainstream" tastes and can use the scores there as a guideline. If you don't agree with the mainstream tastes, then you'll just have to find some way to figure out whether you should play a VN. That or just kill yourself. I'd recommend the latter.
The thing is, publishing and distribution has changed a lot in the internet age. If I wanted to write a book including my scat, incest and necrophilia fetishes, it's not that there's nobody out there who would read it - there's just no one who would make it widely available. Now, with ebooks and stuff, publishing and distributing worldwide costs nothing. Diversification of material is much more possible when availability isn't strictly limited to marketability.
I bring this up because Rapelay came at a time where it was the only instance of a particular medium, at least to a lot of people.
I'm wording this really badly but basically what I mean is I think there's a chance Rapelay would be seen as the exception and not the rule now, just like how my incestuous dead scat lolis would be the exception and not the rule regarding books/ebooks.
I'm not stopping anyone from writing whatever they want, I just find all the excuses and justifications for setting things in Japan tedious. If you're setting your game in Japan because you're a fucking weeb and you can't be assed to do the slightest bit of research to make your setting vaguely resemble Japan (anime or otherwise), stop trying to pretend otherwise.
It's fine. Since most of my VNs are just characters talking to one another for extended periods of time, the setting doesn't often matter in my stories, either...
I'll pick a country the story is in, since that determines character names and other important things (things like greetings, ways of addressing each other, the school system, their currency, what kinds of movies/books/singers they're probably familiar with, etc, etc) but after I've chosen the country I'm often vague about specifics, like what region/city/town it's supposed to take place in.
That is, unless I'm trying to make my story seem more realistic. Then, I'll pick out place names and be more specific with the details.
Eh. It's generally considered a sign of weak writing, yes, unless there's a specific artistic point that you're trying to make about 'everyman', and even then you'll probably fuck it up.
You may not think your game is set in a particular place, but it probably is and you're just not thinking about it. Your characters will take certain things for granted based on your expectations of normal, and not making those clear doesn't help anyone. Not bothering to describe the setting is just laziness.
Well I also read a lot of modern Japanese fiction, and some of the older classics like Natsume Soseki and Yasunari Kawabata because I know they're the kinds of stories Japanese high schoolers study at school, but I feel like saying this would make people assume I'm an even bigger weeb...
Which is true, I am a weeb, but I kinda try to do research by reading up on stuff online and reading a lot of Japanese lit.
I think they might be willing to work something out for a contract project. I typically hear about people charging those fees because they then can't be used in their portfolio, but if they're able to say "I drew the art for this game" then that would likely make up for it.
>for the last time
Don't try to pretend there isn't a constant debate over what defines a loli.
Frankly, I agree with you, but eighteen year old loli just sounds weird. Make her a 1000 years old, that's ok. Hell, make her 32 years old and that's still ok. 18 just sounds like a cop-out and you're blatantly trying to make her legal even though she clearly shouldn't be.
There's no reason for the debate to exist in the first place.
The girl on the left is literally nine years old. No one would ever call her a loli, not even the people who jump through hoops to try to explain why a 500 year old succubus isn't a loli.
I think the people arguing about age defining whether or not someone is loli don't really care about the fantasy and unrealistic elements of anime to begin with. To them, all of that is a moot point because it doesn't adhere to reality.
They probably want a properly aged loli that looks and behaves more like a regular child and anything other than that doesn't qualify or interest them.
I imagine it's a debate between people who like loli for what it is vs. the people who are after victimless, legally grey/safer cp.
I also want to add that normies wouldn't give two shits if a little girl is 8000 years old or just 8 years old. They're the ones who will be passing the judgement, and you're not going to be getting out of it by trying to argue their age in a fictional setting. All they'll see is a clearly prepubescent girl in a sexual situation.
>doesn't have any real appeal in the west
It's plenty popular. Unlike the west, Japan is just allowed to be more open about these things. The real problem with loli in the west is that at best it's in a legal grey area, and at worst you'll be spending a couple months/years with Bubba if someone catches you.
>The girl on the left is literally nine years old. No one would ever call her a loli
The taller one? Yes, some people would still complain that she's a loli when explaining why romancing her would be wrong, because SOME people use it to mean underage.
Actually there is a such thing as Type A, Type B loli, it's incredibly common that a voice actress could be said in the media that she is loli-like even though she's, 25-30 years old because Japanese people are fucking vampires.
Is this new TyranoBuilder program on Steam any good?
It claims not to require any scripting with text, but does it allow it? I don't mind having a choice between drag-and-drop and scripting, but I find the latter usually provides more options and makes complicated shit way easier.
Threadly reminder to NAME AND SHAME (con)artists.
Give it up anon, its nothing but fiction and falsehoods. If it were true any sane person would have destroyed them already, without having to ask for validation about doing so on an anonymous image board.
And if you find it easier to use than RenPy and think it's worth the money for you, go ahead. In my experience of trying to play a bunch of games made with it, most of which were horribly and inconsistently broken, I'm not keen
How do you start fresh and let go of what you already did if you need to rewrite or redraw? I feel boxed in like I can't go outside of what's already there, but what's there isn't working.
I have the exact opposite question.
How do you not feel like you should start fresh and let go of what you already did with everything you create? How do you accept things as they are, stop nitpicking and move on?
Meh, then I have no idea. If you have a completed list of CGs, sprites, expressions and poses and you have the money to pay for it, there should be no problem.
Granted, you said that some of the content you want is objectionable, so maybe they thought it was in the grey area from the description and wanted the script to decide.
reminder that you could be more productive by playing eports right now