/evn/ - watercolors are fine too edition

The time has come, m8s. Time to let /evn/ walk off into the sunset.

First for hi Tao and JP

>>126744042
Second for hi HRP devs

>>126742218
Everyone is so melodramatic about their general dying these days, and then they don't. It's silly.

>>126744042
Is JP still a bogeyman? He hasn't shilled in a while.

first for don't trust collateral damage studios

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>>126747052
top word

>>126731308
>Brick was a pretty good movie desu senpai

I liked brick, but putting a plot like that into high school was unusual for a movie. For a VN, it's just making it MORE cliche.

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>>126747052
They also did the CGs for this game a long while back. I thought I had seen their logo before.

>>126749378
Who gives a shit if it's cliche?

>>126749720
I still don't get why you guys think a plain green sweater is a fashion disaster.

>>126749727
Well, you'd think the kind of people who post here going "Hey, guys, what do you think of IDEA X?" would care, otherwise why are they asking?

>>126750102
They shouldn't. It's worth nothing to say an idea is cliche, what matters is the execution.

>>126750254
I'm sure we'll all be amazed at your deep interpretation of Rich Japanese Boy Becomes First Male Student At All-Girls School, Attends Festival, Saves World.

>>126750456
Can't come up with an actual argument against it, huh?

>>126750737
I don't disagree with the statement that execution matters. I just think you personally are a prat.

>>126751498
I'm a prat
I'll take dat
Prat and gnat
We'll fly off together

>>126751498
I think you're the prattiest prat who ever pratted, so there.

>>126751875
Even more than Chris?

>>126742218

But, uh, we just let it walk out of the sunset.

So...uh...no?

>>126741576

>>126749727

I think that I actually care if plots are cliche or not and so do audiences generally. Largely because there is an element of fatigue that occurs when you revisit a setting/scenario for the hundredth time-- while it's always possible that someone will strike gold, more often than not everything they say is something you've already heard before.

The themes, ideas, and plot elements that are contained within the High School Setting have been pretty well explored. In Visual Novels and Anime/Manga series are forced high school settings even if they have no logical reason to be there. Once you start to use the setting the limits of the logic of that setting start making your world and story increasingly unoriginal.

There are cliches that have such a wealth of possibilities that they are worth exploring-- but the High School Setting cliche more often than not is infertile grounds that are not going to lead to things that capture our interest and instead lead to a feeling of "not again".

I think the "not again" element of fatigue is what makes cliches bad.

If your premise makes it harder to write something fun and interesting-- rather than raise the difficulty of the entire project, why not just find a better premise? Just because you can make a tree grow in the desert does not mean you should.

>>126758661
I'm not tired of high school settings.

So, question: what are some genuine pitfalls in EVNs that we should know better about but people are still fucking doing them?

Is putting game play in your Vn a good idea?

>>126759084
>Is putting game play in your Vn a good idea?
Why wouldn't it be? The question is if you can make it good gameplay.

>>126759258

Well it's a given that you'd at least try for that.

But I just didn't know if gameplay is reviled amongst VN players.

>>126759579
Of course not. Who hates actually playing video games?

If loli is illegal in my country, can I get away with just not stating the ages of the characters involved or must I lie and put the obligatory 'despite appearances all characters featured in this game are 18+? I don't want to go to jail.

>>126759579
It's not a subject you can get an easy one-off answer to.

There are VN players who are angry about having any gameplay in the game. If the gameplay is difficult, it makes it hard for them to get their endings. If the gameplay is time-consuming, it makes replaying to get different endings much more onerous. Many people play VNs because they lack the skills to play 'normal' games, or actually don't like them.

On the other hand, adding gameplay makes your game much more appealing to groups of players who find "just reading" dull and need to be lured in. A lot of people will feel that your game is a more quality experience if it is more interactive, and sing its praises. Big successes in the West tend to have more gameplay.

>>126760148
You're playing a dangerous game, friend. You might get away with saying they're all 18 but whether that flies or not depends on how they're feeling that day. It still looks like "simulated cp" or whatever term they use these days to justify throwing people in jail for it.

>>126760431
>Many people play VNs because they lack the skills to play 'normal' games
What? That's not true at all. Every VN fan I've ever seen at least plays JRPGs or other weeb games.

>>126760447
Alright, I ask because whilst no one in my country has been arrested for loli possession, producing it (even by proxy) carries a much higher sentence, I imagine. They'd probably make an example of the first person to get convicted for it, too. There was one guy who got a notice from the police for uploading loli content to sadpanda.

>>126749378
I didn't think people would still be discussing this.

My idea was to try and capture what made Brick enjoyable and unique (transposing the themes and aesthetics of one genre into a different setting typically used with different themes). It is rather gimicky, to subvert the genre expectations of a particular setting, but I thought it would be novel.

My general idea was to transpose the plot something like the Voyage of the Argos or Beowulf into a high school setting, both because of my love of the mythology and because I think there's a certain cleverness in refluffing the specific trappings into a more mundane setting

>>126760626
There are disabled people playing VNs using screenreaders. They are not a huge proportion of gamers, but yes, I have met a number of people who play VNs because they can't play much else.

>>126761305
Those are such a tiny demographic they shouldn't even be considered.

>>126761176
Mixing settings like that is cool and can lead to some interesting things, I'm just suggesting that for best effect, I would not transpose into high school for a VN. A lot of people will be so busy rolling their eyes at you, they won't appreciate what you've done.

Have you considered an office scenario instead?

>>126761438
>implying office scenarios aren't done to death and back too

>>126761417
If someone's going to stomp around saying NO ONE WILL OBJECT TO GAMEPLAY i think it's valid to point out that some will.

There are people who don't want gameplay, and complain about it being added, and request that it all be skippable, and want Visual Novel Mode in their action games. Not all for disability reasons, some just for taste reasons. That doesn't mean you have to cater to them, but pretending they don't exist is silly.

>>126761604
In EVNs? How many office EVNs do we have?

Not zero, I'm sure, but nowhere near the number of high schools.

>>126761662
They're so insignificant they may as well not exist and have no effect.

>>126761821
In general. It makes no difference what medium it's in. Workplace comedies are a dime a dozen and pretending like it'll all be new because it's in a VN is silly.

>>126761830
That is your opinion. Have you actually looked at polling results? I know Winter Wolves has had large sections of his audience complain that they are only playing for the VN and wish the gameplay would stop getting in their way.

>>126761438
That could work. Actually, now I'm thinking of putting into a Western or Vietnam War setting, since I love those movies as well as the time periods they reflect

>inb4 It Ain't Me by the Fortune Sons

>>126762010
In that case, you may as well give up now, son. No matter what your idea is, someone has done it before in some medium, and no possible amount of fresh new spin on the subject could ever be interesting to anyone at all, so you may as well throw in the towel and become a plumber.

>>126762210
I'm arguing the exact opposite if you paid any attention to my posts. It doesn't matter how cliche your setting is is or how many people done it before, what matters is how you do it.

>>126762140
>Vietnam War setting
definitely milkable for the art games crowd

>>126761417

Actually, I know more than a few visually disabled and I would probably work out a workaround for people who can't play games/are too lazy.

>>126762334
Sorry, I generally consider it bad practice to assume that all prats are the same prat.

>>126762445
How many more people do you know that aren't visually disabled?

>>126762357
>art games

What sort of games would you consider to be in this category?

>>126762735

Let's see.

I know my mother, my roommate, a couple of cashiers at the grocery store, my three coworkers, and my father.

I know five fully blind people, one person with a missing eye, two partially blind, and one who is slowly going blind.

So I think given that not all of them are completely blind, it balances out somewhere at 'eh'.

But isn't the amount of effort required to put a work around in 'do you want to play the tactical scenarios?' and yes takes you to the tactics and no takes you past them?

>>126763146
If you're not willing or able to play the game, you shouldn't get to experience the content. They can read a summary on a message board or something.

>>126763326

I don't think is how it works.

>>126760148

Just move to America where we have freedoms and shit.

So work place and high school is cliche.

What's no cliche?

>>126764871
Evidently, the Vietnam War

>>126764871
High school office building

>>126764871

American Revolutionary War, but the Americans are doggirls and the Brits are catgirls.

>>126765251
During the Vietnam War

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>>126764581
>America
>freedom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors#United_States

>>126765803

Your source basically explains how fictional depictions of loli and shota are legal as long as your public defender has a pulse, where as if you were to have the same things in Britain you would be arrested almost on the spot.

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Why aren't you cashing in on your own Huniepop ripoff?

>>126766453

Laziness. Disinterest in match 3 games.

>>126766147
>ignoring the prosecutions and jail sentences

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>>126766509
Look at all this hot $$$ you could be getting.

>>126766571

Most of the cases involved REAL porn as well as fake porn, learn to read.

See the following.

Attorneys for Mr. Whorley have said that they would appeal to the Supreme Court.[66][67] The request for rehearing was denied on June 15, 2009, and the petition for his case to be reviewed by the Supreme Court was denied on January 11, 2010.[68] A major part of the case was that Whorley also received real child pornography in the form of several cutouts from clothing magazines depicting human female children in swimwear.[c

In January 2011, Kutzner was sentenced to serve 15 months in federal prison for downloading, receiving, and viewing sexually explicit images of actual children for at least eight years

2011 Maine case

In November 2011, Joseph Audette, a 30-year-old computer network administrator from Surry, Maine, was arrested after his username was linked to child pornography sites. A search inside Audette's home did not result in any real child pornography, but did result in the findings of "anime child pornography". Much unlike previous cases (and likely due to the results of the Handley ruling), the charges were quickly dismissed under Maine law and dropped under federal law.[73]

Would you read a Valentine's Day themed otome if it came out around April?

>>126767271
Better be a joke

>>126767271

How much are you charging for my girl on boy love?

>>126760148
No one will give a fuck unless your game becomes super popular/draws normie attention, and in that case you'll probably have enough money to get a lawyer.

>>126768085

Arguably, you could just avoid doing sex scenes, too. Fan service that doesn't show genitalia usually trumps any anti-obscenity laws in any country you'd want to live in.

>>126749223
What's wrong with that background?

>>126768487
That minivan is too far out in the street and is going to get hit.

-999/10.

>>126749223
Is that how koreans park?

>>126766147
>where as if you were to have the same things in Britain you would be arrested almost on the spot.
citation pls?

>>126767271
If the whole theme is valentine's day it would feel a little silly, if it's just part of it who cares?

>>126767432
>>126767436
>>126770535
Thanks for your answers senpai.
I've been working on improving my art over the past months but I feel like I'm losing motivation, so I thought maybe working towards a set goal would be better. I've never released anything so I've been thinking of a plot for a short, fun VN, freeware of course. The Valentine's setting just came into my mind by chance, but with exams and all I wouldn't be able to finish it in a month.

>>126749720
Why is the floor tipping?

>>126775981

It's probably American.

>>126775981
Why are the guys midgets?

>>126776354

They're probably Japanese.

>>126765520
... I'd play that.

>>126766509
That's okay, there are plenty of other casual game genres that are ripe for tit-mining!

>>126760148
Do whatever Fuchur did.
Even if you're selling it, I don't think anyone will really care unless your game's popularity explodes and everyone knows about it, or you advertise it on feminist frequency.

>>126767082
Wait. The "real" child pornography he received was from magazine cutouts of kids in swimsuits? Sure that's probably not something one should be collecting, but to consider it child porn is pretty fucked up.

>>126761098
>There was one guy who got a notice from the police for uploading loli content to sadpanda.
It scares me how they figure these things out.
Unless of course he did so right in front of a police officer.

>>126768328
>you could just avoid doing sex scenes
Ruins everything

>>126784420
The government knows all about the sick shit you've done on the internet.

>>126764871
Is a criminal underworld cyberpunk adventurer cliched? I'm still doing it and nobody here can stop me, but is it overdone in VNs?

>>126784650
Do you really want to know the answer if you're going to do it anyway?

>>126749727
Nodev lurker here. I'm so goddamn fed up with japanese high schools that I sometimes end up discarding a series or a VN based solely on whether it has school in it. While execution matters, as shown by DysSys or even select routes of that one novel that has its own general, you'll have a hard time proving a customer like me your product isn't just another japanese high school with a shy girl, an ADHD girl, a XVIII century girl, a tomboy, an annoying girl, and flavor of the day Beowulf spices thrown in. In a setting that isn't high school, mecha, or magical girls, you can slap those things together and I'll lap it up.

>>126784934
Uh-huh. It'd be nice knowing more about what I'm walking into. I don't really see any cyberpunk EVNs and I was curious if I was walking into cliche territory without knowing it.

>>126760148
Familiarise yourself with the fucking laws and much more importantly, existing practice.
Seriously, avoid walking this rope as much as possible. Loli isn't exactly outlawed in my country, but the department trying to regulate the internets has blocked the major boorus for hosting hentai in general, and judging by how happy courts are to hand out sentences, any loli VN has the potential to become a demonstrative case.
TOR and I2N are your friends.

>>126760148
Show art. I'll tell you if it's worth it.

>>126785545
Arrival Studios was working on one back in the day.

Here's some highlights I found interesting from the latest Rising Angels: Fates update.

-There will be a sequel to Fates.

-Rising Angels Hope will be free and be available to backers in early February, and to the rest of us sometime later.

-IDHAS is considering releasing Fates episodically in 4 parts.
>There has been a proposed idea in the studio. With all elements of Fates Act 1 almost coming together finally, the idea was floated that we could release each act of Fates’s 4 acts separately, 1 every 1.5-2 months. Each act would be roughly a couple hours per route. With Steam, we could do it with relative ease with updates.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chief/rising-angels-fates-visual-novel/posts/1453984

If you're here IDHAS, any chance of releasing the original Red Rose on Steam when Hope gets released?

>>126789014
That's long dead.

>>126789346
Exactly my point.
Shame I missed your recruiting if there was any.

>>126785518
You may be but many others aren't.

>>126789209
Why would they release that piece of crap anywhere near Steam? They're redoing it because every they admitted it was that bad.

>>126791359
I've only played Reborn. What was so bad about Red Rose (besides the art)?

>>126791639
Everything. The art is the closest thing to "the best part" is has. They released Reborn to try to make people forget they put out that crap.

>>126785518
what about japanese elementary school, is that acceptable?

>>126792029
Absolutely

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>complain about people leaving bottles
>no option to put it in the rubbish bin that's literally right beside it
They don't call it life is tumblr for no reason.

>>126792242
>touching dirty trash that's probably covered in aids
No thanks.

>>126792553
>aids can be transmitted by touch
I bet you're a homophobe too.

>>126793607
I'm not homophobic. I'm not afraid of my house.

>>126792242
>>>/lisg/

Convince me why I should bump this general

can't wake up

ded devs
ded general

Any visual novels containing body swapping?

>>126802939
Mine, bitch.

>>126803257
Do you fug your original body, whore?

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>>126802563
>Гдe, тeм вpeмeнeм, yжe нaчaлa пoтихoнькy coбиpaтьcя тoлпa.
>capitalisation
>being unable to into truncated sentences

>в, pacкpытyю нacтeж, двepь.
>first comma
>нacтeж
>ь
>ь
>ь
Fucking reeeeeee

>>126803257
DL link nigga

Shitposter here... can't post as much as I did before. I'm now working for a different department so different shift. Allahu Akbar brothers. Bless your game.

>>126789209
I thought Hope was the remake for The Red Rose?

>>126806041
I've got your back, brother
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsfF6zFShbM

A big titted tan bisexual with a perfect booty will never bounce on your dick.

>>126807328
You mean "never again". but it still makes me cry.

>>126807328
>he had a trap with implants bounce on his benis

>>126807328
Statistically speaking, it's worth saying that there are more females than males on /evn/ and you're severely limiting those feels by targeting people with a dick.

There are like no straight guys here, so next time just talk about insertion without a specific hole in mind so you'll get both demographic targets.

>>126808274
>forgetting females with a dick
Check your privilege, transphobe.

>>126808384
>phobe
why would anyone be afraid of something that isn't real

>>126808274
>it's worth saying that there are more females than males on /evn/
You mean to say I've been talking to grils for the first time in my recluse neet life all this time? It's a good thing I'm apparently gay or I would totally freak out right now.

>>126808274

Damn it I keep forgetting that males are the minority here.

As a bisexual man I should really know better.

Are /vn/ refugees still lurking? This thread is a mess

>>126808682
build wall

>>126808596
There's no such thing as bisexual men. Only gay men struggling to come to terms with their sexuality.

>>126808723
I agree with you that

>There's no such thing as bisexual men.

However I'd replace
>Only gay men struggling to come to terms with their sexuality.

with

>Only straight men who can't get pussy and need a warm hole from anyone.

>>126808771
>>126808723

Why does bisexual not exist?

You think I honestly can't want both at the same time?

>>126808828
Bisexuals do exist, but they're pretty much all women.

>>126808828
You're just confused.

>>126808274
>There are like no straight guys here
We don't disappear from reality just because you like sheep.

>>126808682
Please fornicate with our fujoshits so that they calm down.

>>126808901
>We don't disappear from reality just because you like sheep.
How can something that never was around disappear?

>>126808828
Because craving cock makes you gay. Once you've accepted another man's dick, it doesn't matter how many vaginas you've plundered, you're officially homo.

>>126809041

That seems like insisting upon a moot point anyway.

>tfw no bisexual harem VN ever
Games with one or two gay options don't count. I'm talking shameless, every girl and guy is out for your nonspecific hole and fighting for your affection self insert fantasy.

who is Ria?

>>126809410

So if there were six love interests, three of them males and three of them females?

>>126809651
Do you mean Rita?

>>126808384
I might still like to have a hot girl bounce on my strapon.

>>126809410
You've officially alienated 95% of the potential viewers,

>>126809410
Technically Magical Diary is an absolutely-everyone-is-bi universe, but despite that and the "poly is ok" class lessons, no harem route. What a waste.

>>126806283
It is. I was just going in the order the announcements were made in the KS post. Obviously a direct sequel can't be released before the game it's a sequel to comes out.

>>126810158
What if the MC can pursue any character and they'll reciprocate then? That way it's only a bi harem if the player wants it to be.

Anyone got a link to visual novels that take place in space? I need a background of the interior of a space vessel and I have no idea how I want it to look.

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>>126812440
have you not seen any sci-fi movies/tv shows that take place in a spaceship?

>>126812440
Kangoku Senkan bruh

>>126812604
Honestly, no.
>>126812875
Thank you.

>>126813007
I was just having a giggle mate, it's a VN where rape and mindbreak each take more space than sco-fi backgrounds.

Go on vndb and filter the novels by a space-related tag, that's your best bet.

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>>126813254
>>126812604
Fuck

>>126813397
X Rebirth?

How much is liberation day gonna be?
any speculations cause after pirating Academy i actually kinda wanna buy Liberation Day

>>126813857
too much for what it's worth

East v West VN when

>was so tired last night I shut my laptop down without saving the writing I'd done
I'll take it as a sign I should rewrite it.

>>126812440
On the English side?

Rising Angels Reborn
Sunrider
Starfighter: Eclipse
I think Orion might...

3 of the 4 are on Steam.

>>126813397
>>126819516
Thanks for your help, I've sent some references off to the BG artist.

>>126789209
What benefit does he get from that sort of release? He's done the entire core of the story and passed it to the voice actors, so it's not like he is getting feedback and adapting with each section's release. Almost all of the non-writing assets are complete, so he doesn't need the extra funding for the game.

The only reason I can think why he'd seriously consider it is hidden in that post. He'd release Hope, ride that spike of interest and visibility with Fates, keep it going with each act release while working on the sequel he is talking about, and then use that to drive up interest in the sequel since people are still mostly invested. It's an interesting and possibly smart move if he could keep that wave going. If not, it is just going to piss a lot of people off.

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The last time I did post anything I was told that my writing was like reading a badly translated visual novel, and I doubt I have improved at all, but since ded thread is ded I might as well post the drafts for my bad ends.

>>126823319

I think it is just a bit too inspired from other visual novels that you have read and it feels like it is just executing these tropes without being conscious of them, why they exist, etc.

The characters all sound like characters I have read before. The diction and wording are needlessly awkward or out of touch with how people actually speak in the English language.

Specific issues

First ending -- Old English, character seems to be a copy of Meiya/Saber something like that. The stilted old-fashioned phrasing is okay, but doesn't really have the impact that you seem to intend. Descriptions are okay but all of them seem to be really short. Also, you do not explain the setting at all in the intro to the bad ends (i.e. where are the characters while saying these things). Some area description is in order.

Second ending-- Seen this a million times. Feels like an inferior copy of any of the witches from Umineko or any bad end where a character ends up helpless with some sadist girl. The ~ and heart symbols are particularly offensive--why are you using them? Because you saw it in some other VN? Is that really enough of a reason?

Third ending-- Copied Japanese laugh sound. "Eh?" Why did you write that (see rant above). Also makes too little sense. Not enough description.

So those are the issues, now onto what is good and some advice.

>>126824494

Cont.

So what is good is that you have decent vocabulary. While the ideas aren't original, you are able to replicate scenes you have read before and capture part of their atmosphere and feeling.

The more you are able to do that and the more you practice, the better you are going to get.

I think most of the issues are a result of reading too many visual novels and not enough actual novels. I think you should read more real books before returning to writing, because your frame of reference is skewed and it affects your overall writing.

You'll dramatically improve just by reading other material. Just my thoughts.

>>126824494
I felt compelled to use old English since the character speaking is of royal descent. I know of the characters you mention but I've never read their source material personally. I wanted to keep these endings short because I imagine no reader wants to pay attention to what they realize to be a 'bad' ending for too long.

Again, I know of the series you're talking about but I've never watched them myself so its not like I'm intentionally trying to mimic them. I used them because I wanted to convey how childish and delusional the character is.

I did think about replacing it with 'hah', or 'what' as I was concerned it sounded to out of place.

I don't know if it helps my case any that all of these scenes will have CG's which will hopefully better convey the kind of effect I'm going for. Thank you very much for your well thought out concrit, I'll learn from it.

>>126824745
>I think most of the issues are a result of reading too many visual novels and not enough actual novels.
You are right on the money there. I used to read all the time as a child, but as I got older became more disillusioned with modern literature (I had a very long spell of reading what turned out to be completely putrid, not even worth the paper it's printed on books). I can't even remember the name of the last book I read to completion.

I'll try your suggestions out before writing again.

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>>126824494
>Feels like an inferior copy of any of the witches from Umineko

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>>126810213

tfw no forcing Ellen and Virginia to kiss your soul burn better
tfw no Potsdam option
tfw no Minnie option.

>>126823319
Got a little exercise for you. Try writing a scene between 300-1000 words without using "I". It's not a big problem to use "I" a lot, but diversifying your sentence structure and choice of words is always a good thing. It also makes it much less repetitive to read.

Apart from that, I don't have much to add on top of what the other anon said. Read more.

>>126822836
>What benefit does he get from that sort of release?

>Perks:

>-Fates in your hands faster

>-Smaller pieces for those of you like me who can’t sink a lot of time into games in any one sitting (until it was fully released; then you'd have to marathon it)
This could be meant to make it seem cheaper than what it is, because only the Zuri route is free, so breaking it into 4 cheaper parts might make people more likely to pay for the other routes.

>Cons:

>-There’d be stops for those of you who want to marathon

>-It would be that nasty e-word.
Episodic.

>>126827749

Episodic is a terrible word. It sounds a lot like 'they don't have to finish'.

>>126829061
Never trust an episodic indie game ever. Only buy once complete, if it ever actually reaches that point.

>>126829206
Actually I'll just change that to never trust any episodic game ever until it's complete.

>>126829206
>>126829325

Admittedly, I do like supporting indie, but I hate the idea that a work will only be finished by unpaid fans if at all...

how much porn is in most visual novels

>>126831058
Please add more context to your question.

>>126831137

if there are a thousand visual novels, randomly chosen, what percentage of them will have pornographic elements?

>>126831287
80%

>>126831287
Hit the random button on vndb 1000 times and come back to us with your results.

>>126831287

Ten percent. Twenty percent more will have fan service without genitalia.

>>126826480

It is a terrible feel, indeed.

>>126827749
>4 cheaper parts
It wouldn't be sold individually though. If anything, it would seem more expensive as at release you'd only have the one part.

>>126827749
I'm curious how the true routes free approach is going to go over. People could see it as an extensive demo, or they could complain about vn dlc, which people don't tend to think vns should have.

>>126833731
It depends on if they go by Beach Bounces payment model (all upfront) or like The Reject Demon Toko, which only charged for the existing part.

>>126834001
I think Beach Bounce model was the idea.

Is a project commercial if you fund raise to make it, whilst planning to release it for free?

>>126834903
No.

>>126834903
No, it is commercial if you are selling it for money.

>>126834903

Almost certainly no, unless you are going to funnel that money into a different commercial project.

After looking at the plot outline I'm writing, I think I'm going to cutback on the cyberpunk idea. I like some of the designs, but the story is more dark and gritty sci-fi than cyberpunk.

>>126838925
Cyberpunk is dead anyway.

>>126834903
Why do you ask?

If you're trying to verify that you have the right to use some particular resource free because it's a non-commercial game, in many cases, you might want to just ask the resource-holder, if they're available.

If you're giving the end product away free, it IS a non-commercial project, but some people might feel that if you raised $100K to make that free game, a nominal donation for their free-for-free-games resource might be polite. (If you raise only $1K and you need all that for the art then not an issue really.)

>>126839468
But the designs are just so cool.

>>126839990
No one cares about art here, we are slaves to commercial popularity. Tits, tits, tits, that's where it's at.

>>126840789
What if I said the protagonist was a lesbian? That better?

>>126840789
Nice looking tits. We do care about art!

>>126839523
Well I see the difference between artists charging for commercial vs non commercial art and I was worried that the possibility of crowdfunding meant the project would become commercial since it had money being poured into it. I only need to fundraise for the art, I'm happy to fund the rest of it myself.

>>126840968
A cyberpunk lesbian? But she's probably shaved bald and tattooed and pierced! That's not moe at all!

I personally like cyberpunk lesbians

>>126841958
Yeah, you should be fine. They can't really object to you fundraising a bit when it means they get paid.

wake me up

>>126844927
WAKE ME UP INSIDE

>>126845742
Only when September ends

>>126844927
before ai go-go?

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heavy metal themed vn when?

>>126842040
Totally... isn't. The characters are mostly just regular sci-fi characters with brighter colors. Bit of shame really.

>>126840789

>slaves to commercial popularity
Trying to follow trends is foolish.

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>>126848012

Why there isn't a BL game about a glam metal is beyond me, considering that many of them grope each other way more than any fan could ever hope for.

What are some good, yet short (sakura spirit length) VN's?

So, background artist 1 fucked off halfway through a picture and never came back. Background artist 2 is slowing to the point of one image a month, which will never get this shit done.

>>126853504
name and shame

>>126853874
why bother, all artists are scum

>>126855305
Now now anon, no need to have such an /r9k/ attitude. You just chose unwisely.

>>126855627

Considering that most of the regulars here seems to have a story of an artist bailing out...

>>126855867
I know, I just don't want you to become disillusioned. I feel compelled to say that I'm no artist, either.

>I want good art
>I don't want to pay more than chump change
>boohoo why do these college students and kids keep flaking out on me
>it's totally because all artists are subhuman garbage and not me being comically inept at conducting business and choosing contractors

>>126857498
There are even "professionals" with a "reputation" that flake out.

>>126857498
>I want good art
>I paid the asking rate from an artist with a portfolio
>which makes it totally my own fault that i got ripped off because artists are always right

>>126855867

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

If you aren't willing to take it to the level of a named accusation, you might as well not complain.

>>126855305
You know what's funny is my team for an old project gradually fell apart one by one while I took up their work until I was just me and someone who thought he was way more important than he was, and it became impossible to continue.
I was the artist. All I got for my efforts was an assload of criticism initially, the viewers insisting on almost nothing but gay content (in a straight game), and near immediate loss of interest when I failed to keep up with all the work everyone had abandoned.

>>126857498

> pay good rates
> artist fucks off to have a sex change

>>126858271
I see, our straw manning skills are evenly matched.

An artist is a lot like a wild horse. If you don't tame them, they're liable to run off.

>>126859009

So you shouldn't pay them up front?

>>126859009
How does one tame an artist?
Would telling them you'll become an hero if they desert you sufficient?

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>tfw a decent artist finally contacts you after wading through a sewer of only the shit ones
Can't wait to taste the sweet suffering of despair when they get back to me with a quote.

>>126855305
That's ok. All artists loathe writers and idea guys.

>>126859105
Well, no, you shouldn't pay them up front. Many will insist on partial payment up front, though, or at least partial payment at sketch stage.

Note - having paid an artist half the cost and demonstrated that you are completely willing to pay them does not stop them from disappearing on you.

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>paying someone in full upfront
>not having short deadlines that can easily be enforced with PayPal's refund system
Pay per assets, you fucking mongrels. Will you ever learn? If your artist takes longer than two weeks to deliver one single asset, it's just not going to work out in the long run.

>>126861023
how long does paypals refund system last? I heard it was 30 days.

>>126860667

The only way to completely guarantee not getting fucked is to only render payment upon completion of assets or the whole project.

>>126861440
I believe it's 60 days now for regular goods at least, have to check to make sure it extends to digital goods.

>>126862062
Good luck finding someone who's willing to get completely fucked

>>126862062
Half upfront, paid per asset. If something doesn't work out, PayPal refund. If they argue, file a dispute and win because you kept track of the conversation through e-mail. If everything goes well, pay the rest.

As simple and safe as it gets dealing with internet people.

>>126862208
This.

>hey ms. artist draw me all these things ill pay you at the end i swear you know im good for it

>>126862649

They have an email conversation that's linked to your IP.

'Hey cops, someone stole from me after we had a written contract that I would be paid money for services rendered'.

And then the cops are like 'shit nigga we're on it'.

>>126862851
Easy to enforce when it can be settled on a small claims court, not as easy when people are working in distant countries. The law takes a bit of time either way.

>>126861023
>>126862062

This doesn't prevent you getting fucked.

I don't give a shit about the money, I have money falling out of my pockets, I just want someone to DO THE WORK.

>>126863169
>This doesn't prevent you getting fucked.
It literally does in every aspect but wasting time, which is always a risk when you're doing anything with other people. You have money, great. You can usually use it to encourage good work ethics, but nothing but the other party can guarantee that.

It's just not in your control regardless of how you do this.

>>126863169
>I don't give a shit about the money, I have money falling out of my pockets
Pls can I have some?

>>126863169
If you have money then pay a premium for someone with a good reputation.

>>126864473

And publically announce how you commissioned them at the time you commission them.

>>126864756

That said, part of this is making it complimentary, and also cheering them when they deliver.

>>126864986

So the idea is to basically make sure people know that you're commissioning someone for shaming purposes later (and documentation), but also to seem like a gracious customer if they come through?

>>126867038
Yes

>>126867141

That seems brilliant!

It both reinforces that the commissioner is a good person, and casts the artist as dirty, irredeemable scum if they back out on the deal without returning the money!

what a tangled web we weave

>>126819516
>>126819615
Reborn background artist here.
No, you don't want to use my artwork as a reference

>>126867883

It can't be as bad as Bionic Heart 2's artwork, anon who is probably not that person.

Allahu Akbar heathens, shitting on artists again? It's okay. Islam doesn't like western artists either.

BTW, Islamic Banks offer no interest.

>>126868181

I don't really understand why.

Then again, I'm someone who posts in /evn/ but is more likely than not just write a regular novel.

>>126867707
I'd take it more as good advertisement for both your project and the popular artist involved, rather than simply setting them up for shaming if they don't deliver. But yeah, there's also that.

Background check / database / yelp for commissioners and artists alike?

>>126869164

The carrot is a nice reward, but the stick is more the point.

Artists would think twice about not delivering if they were praised for delivering and scorned for taking your money and running, and being acknowledged as a cash thief hurts their ability to do it again.

>>126864132
Yes. Do some fucking work.

>>126867883
>implying I did
I found a bunch of ones from random eroge

>>126870329
>still using other VN as a reference

Nigga, just google any sci-fi movie like that other faggots told you.

>>126869530
That's the whole point of paying a premium for someone with a good reputation to begin with. Not only have they already proven themselves, it adds that extra layer of protection in that they wouldn't want to tarnish the image they've worked hard for. They would already know this full well going in. Creating something positive out of the collaboration by advertising their involvement as benefit, rather than treating it like a threat in an attempt to keep them in line would be far more beneficial for both parties and make for a more pleasant experience.

If you don't have the money for that, then you're most likely not going to be able to hire anyone with a decent reputation, and that's where it gets sketchy and no amount of threats or praise is going to do you any good.

>>126871294

If enough people did it, lesser reputationed people who have any moral fiber might be cowed from misbehaving in the first place.

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>Trying to figure out how you make save files nameable in renpy
>None of the topics about the subject are clear

>>126873536
> wanting clear documentation

hahaha

Will your evn be finished next year, /evn/?

>>126875116
Depends on the artists.

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>>126873536
>he didn't write his own engine like xXxTruCodeGodexXx

>>126873536
Mod the save screen to bring up a save-namer screen before the actual save.

>>126810213

There should have at least been an option to get Virginia and Ellen together, and then have a foursome makeout party with Minnie.

>haven't done any serious work on my game since xmas

I'm fuced

>having to redesign the characters you drew when you were 12 to better fit your story's aesthetic
why does this hurt more than writing about them having sex?

>>126858349
>the viewers insisting on almost nothing but gay content (in a straight game)
Was this on lemma? And by insist do you mean pester you and practically demand?

>>126882586

Nostalgia.

>>126872879
People with less of a reputation, or none at all, have very little to lose in comparison.
Moral fiber is only half the story as well. Not everyone is out to simply walk off with the money. Sometimes people just get in over their heads because they don't have that experience, didn't know what to expect, overestimates themselves, and underestimates the work. When you're attempting to "hire" unkknowns, you're really just taking a gamble. You may get an artist who will become somebody, simply thinks they'll become somebody, or has no intention of becoming anyone and will happily make off with your cash.

>>126886580

But people who DON'T want to rob you ALWAYS have the option to be like 'Sorry man, I can't, here's your cash back' or 'can I repay you in installments'?

The options aren't always 'finish the job you were paid for' or 'cut and run, becoming a thief'.

>>126880063
>haven't done any serious work on my game since last xmas

No, I am the fucked

>>126885642
Most likely. This must be what it feels like when parents have to watch their children get older.

>>126886996

If it makes you feel better, once you DO change them, it feels better after while.

Like breaking a rib is excruciatingly painful until you heal.

>>126886771
I'm trying to address problems with bringing in people who haven't proven themselves in general. Sure they could mean well and pay you back, but it's not always that simple. You might be paying them per image, but they could give up after having done 5. Simply up and leave, often without saying anything, because they realize they're in over their heads or don't enjoy it, but don't want to deal with the fallout. You're now stuck with these 5 random images they deserve to have been paid for. Unless you want to compromise and mash together different drawing styles and qualities, you've not only lost money, you've also wasted your time.

I'm not condoning blatant frauds and swindlers, but I know how difficult it is to be the artist for a visual novel, especially if you have no stakes in or passion for the project, let alone experience.

>>126888367

Now if only established artists weren't overcharging out of greed/economic difficulty.

It's part of the reason I've given up on being interested in VN making in any capacity other than a writer.

>>126888948
Can you point me to a reliable, established artist that you think is overcharging so i can steal them with money?

>>126889371

All of them.

None of them.

Some of them.

But I imagine anyone established is either booked solid or costs more than most are willing to pay.

>>126889371
go away poacher
come back once you've had to sift through over 50 DA artists messaging you and having only 3 of them be anywhere near decent, and then having those 3 trying to charge you over $1k

>>126889673
I've done the sifting thing a lot, rarely do they actually come up with unreasonable prices though. More commonly, NONE of them are any good.

>>126889929
>rarely do they actually come up with unreasonable prices though
So have I just been getting shafted then? Seriously the cheapest I've been quoted is $650 and thats as a starting price.

>>126889371
Lucky you, they're opening commissions in 2016:
http://tonee89.deviantart.com/journal/COMMISSION-Update-404909840

>>126890142
How much work are you asking for?

>>126890370
10 CG's
3 sprites

>>126884121
This wasn't on lemma, but there was quite a bit of pestering, with some demanding. Essentially one project collapsed and the developer was absorbed by us. But the fans of that developer were not happy at all about what happened, and only really followed us because they knew that developer had joined and that the two projects were similar. Only, obviously, theirs had gay content, and we did not.
Some were quite pleasant in their inquiries. Others acted like they were entitled to the free game the other developer was making and that they deserved to be catered to just for being part of the community. Which might have been understandable if we had a patreon or kickstarter and it wasn't mostly just me at that point (the developer we brought in had long since left without a word) trying to make something I cared about on my own time for free.

Many mistakes were made.

>>126890621
And this is why I don't want to involve any one person in my project other than absolutely necessary.

>>126890367
>http://tonee89.deviantart.com/journal/COMMISSION-Update-404909840
>If you request your commission to be private which will not be displayed in my gallery or anywhere for a period of time or forever, extra fee of 30% of the commission price will be charged
This is ridiculous. To not spoil your project, you have to pay them extra, and quite a bit extra.

Give it to me straight, is this:
http://raitvisualworks.deviantart.com/gallery/
http://sta.sh/2z3qni5m3rh
for >>126890538 amount of work worth $975?
The gallery is composed of two different artists which is why there is such a style gap.

>>126890621
>the fans of that developer were not happy at all about what happened, and only really followed us because they knew that developer had joined and that the two projects were similar.
>the developer we brought in had long since left without a word
If the fans of that dev knew about them leaving, then they should've known it was pointless to keep bothering you, since the people who had the vision for that other vn weren't even there anymore.

>>126890367
Are they reliable and fast?

>>126891934
Reliable? Yes.
Fast? Depends which slot you manage to get when they open, if you manage to get a slot at all.

>studio advertises on lemma
>$300 per cg
>$200 per sprite
>not allowed to talk to the artists, have to go through a middleman

super sketch

>>126893007
Surely no one would be so desperate as to go for it.

>>126893396
looks like they did some art for microsoft

>>126893396
many have tried, only to be let down by being assigned a shit artist.

and they look surprised that they have trouble getting gigs.

>>126893623
link pls

>>126890805
I feel like that rule's more geared to individual, one-off works than projects or extended contracts, right? That would make a little more sense.

>>126890757
It was just me and two friends initially. It wasn't even my project. I just cared about it a lot, but it became apparent over time that their interest was waning and that I didn't have the skillset to manage everything and do nearly all the work by myself.

>>126891534
It was some time before they left, some time later when he lied about his absence and came back, and then left again and I realized he wasn't coming back. By that point they were quite situated and had acclimated to my art. They had lost all faith in that developer and I was their only hope to get what they were originally after was the way I saw it.

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If only their translations lived up to their designs

>>126893007
And upfront pay

nump

>>126904742
What fantastic GUI

>>126901762
Hi Jesus.

Our artist drew a loli out of the main heroine.
The loli came out better than the actual assets.
And I thought the christmas bondage situation was bad.

deddest of the ded. Where the fuck is the drama at? Where's the new releases to talk about? Ded scene

>>126918674

Thanks doc.

>>126893007
If it's Collateral Damage Studios, then you should take your business elsewhere.

>>126893007

It sounds like using lemma for anything too too important or taking lemma seriously is asking for trouble.

>>126914681
well, at least they're drawing art that's related to the story, even if the assets can't be used within the story? it shows they're dedicated to the vn, at any rate! they wouldn't drawing extra, unneeded art assets if they weren't enjoying themselves or didn't like the story.

>>126921037
It could also mean they can't focus on what they're supposed to be doing and mainly want to draw lewd things.

>>126921153
I'd still take it a positive sign. Having an artist who draws lots of unnecessary lewds for your story is better than an aritst who draws nothing at all. And you can also include the other art in an 'extras' section that can be unlocked after the player has finished the vn, people like stuff like that.

>>126921037
Yeah, I'm just bitching. When we complete or fail this project though, I'm writing a story tailored to that turbodyke. Submissive loli, tentacles, whatever. She's got potential.

>>126914681
>>126922993
pls gib artist name when you're done
they sound based

>>126922993
My artist also drew lots of unnecessary art for my VN, to the detriment of some of the assets I actually wanted, so I feel your pain. It worked out in the end, though.

It's kind of nice knowing they're that inspired they want to use their spare time to work on stuff you don't want/need, but at the same time it's kind of like... 'O-OK, but I want to get along and finish my project, can we focus please...'

Is it really so hard to find a decently priced, non flake background artist? If so I'll share the one I found once they're finished with mine.

>>126873876
Speaking of this, I was thinking of compiling a clear documentation somewhere. Kinda like the cookbook and quickstart, but with searchable keywords to help find things. Probably a wiki page would be best.
But would anyone besides me contribute? That's the question.

>>126891412
I think you're getting a steal, as long as they're quick. Hopefully you get the artist with the style you like, since some of the sprites on the gallery look nicer than others.

> is there any censorship involved? i'm hesitant to buy anything from steam because i donn't want to support censorship.

the new generation of vn players, everyone.

So I have no morals, but don't want to link my NSFW art to my SFW (at least, not the extreme NSFW). Are the chances of me avoiding issues slim? Assuming I don't advertise on Lemmasoft.

>>126925560
They said their usual rates are two times as much as what they're charging me, they're discounting it on the basis that this is going to be 'long term project', so I don't know about their speed. I'll request a sketch from them of the characters in the style that I want and see if I want to make it final.

>>126926087
What are the individual rates you're getting then? For each CG and each Sprite.

>>126925857
Yes, just use a different username and post it on hentai foundry as opposed to your usual place.
Also link to NSFW examples please.

>>126925857
Use separate names.

>>126925857
As long as you're not drawing an amputated loli have sex on her father's grave or an emotionally fragile girl get railed under questionable circumstances, you're fine.

>>126926139
They originally quoted me "$65-$90 per artwork"
and then their breakdown upon description is:
a couple thigh up cg w/bg x2 (2 characters in 2 artworks) $70 x 2 = $140
a couple full body w/bg CG x3 (2 characters in 3 artworks) $75 x 3 = $225
a couple waist up CG w/bg x2 (2 characters in 2 artworks) $65 x 2 = $130
a couple bust up CG w/bg (2 characters in 1 artworks) $60
a single bust up CG w/bg (1 characters in 1 artworks) $45
a group CG with 4 fullbody characters w/bg (4 characters in 1 artworks) $120

3 thigh up sprites
5 expressions
full-colored $85 x 3 characters = $255

I asked them why the sprites were more expensive than the CG's and they replied:
"1 character consist of :
3 sprites, $20 each
5 expression, $5 each
So, total $85

And if there is 3 characters, then total $255
I usually charge about $120"

Let's talk about ideas that other anons can steal.

A short game where you try to seduce your NEET best friend.

>>126926550
If 4chan is anything to go by all it'd take for you to "seduce" them is to ask them to fug.

>>126926550
> try to seduce your NEET best friend
They'd faint from shock due to having an actual person come on to them.

>>126925857

Separate names will save your life as long as you remember to use different emails.

>>126926550

A short NTR game where the MC's wife/lover is stolen away by his NEET best friend.

>>126926615
>>126926661
disgusting 3d piggu tho

>>126926550

A story about how an eighteen year old loli would probably not have proper hormone flows and, while socially interested in appearing adult, would probably be asexual.

Eventually you end up cucking her for a proper girl.

Which would you prefer as a good end CG, a heroine shown to be happy and heavily pregnant or one of those family photo shots with the heroine, MC and child?

>>126926342
That has to be the most confusing breakdown of prices I've ever read.
20 per sprite pose is really good though, considering they each get 3 poses with 5 expressions.

>>126926673
I think Secret Sorrow of the Siblings is pretty close to that.
>Kaito and Rikuto are twins and they have a younger sister named Arisa. Though they are twins, the nerdy Kaito is obviously inferior to the intelligent and athletic younger twin brother, Rikuto. One night, Kaito saw his younger sister enthusiastically fellating Rikuto. Watching the spectacle while feeling the sense of being left alone, he blazed up with rage.

>Now that his twin is too busy with a baseball tournament... armed with photographs he stealthily took when the two broke the taboo, driven by hatred towards his younger sister and jealousy for his brother, it's time to enforce equality.

>>126927019
Does the heroine have to be pregnant or with child? Is it a plot point?

>>126927019
Pregnant. 100%.

>>126927019

Is that something the protagonist/love interest would want?

Are they capable of breeding?

Do they desire to breed?

If so, either, but heavily pregnant is hotter to me/.

>>126926760
Go in a steam friend thread and add somebody with an anime avatar. Within the hour they'll be sweating for your dick.

>attempt to write something radical and edgy
>compare to Max Payne cutscenes
>cry

>>126927228
No, they don't have to be. But I thought it would be a good way to show the development of their relationship.
>>126927309
Alright.
>>126927383
>Is that something the protagonist/love interest would want?
Yes.
>Are they capable of breeding?
Normally no, but this is science fiction, I ain't gotta explain shit. Magic science babies.
>Do they desire to breed?
Very much so.

>>126927916
>>Are they capable of breeding?
>Normally no, but this is science fiction
no mpreg pls

>>126928014
>mpreg
No way, just lesbians procreating through the power of advanced technology. No hetshit allowed.

>>126928147

Why do people hate het now?

I mean, I thought tolerance was all about everyone fucking everyhthing.

>>126928308
Yuri fans are particularly bad about hating penises, just let them be.

>>126928401

But I like yuri and het and occasionally yaoi...

>>126928401
This. I'm primarily making the VN for /u/ and I'd hate for them to feel BTFO over artificial insemination.

>>126928308
>tolerance
It's not about tolerance though. Remember the people complaining about Brilliant Shadows when it came out? They wanted a pure lesbian love story between 2 best friends, and when they didn't get it they were pissed off. Yuri fans don't want tolerance, they want yuri. Putting a female romance option into a yaoi game will likely raise a few eyebrows as well.

>>126928649
>Putting a female romance option into a yaoi game will likely raise a few eyebrows as well.
That's not even close to what happened in BS.