Occultism & Magick: Library Update 51 - Babylonian

>>18945912
>Making Sense of Things: Archaeology of Sense Perception.

This looks super coOoOol

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>>18945895
Anything?

>>18945912
Oh wow, Ape. Your library is sooo big.

Do you have any plans of adding magazines like Chaos International or Runa (if they can be found)?

>>18945912
Do you have a searchable index of texts in your library? Something I can ctrl+f to look for names to see if they're there?

>>18945928
"No."

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What are some signs that someone might be into the occult and magic?
I'm looking for someone to help me figure stuff out but I can't tell who to go to/ how to look for them.
The only 'occult shops' around me are new age crystal shops
My best bet is a goth girl who was in a class of mine a few years back, but that was probably just aesthetic.

>>18945454
>Druidic. A waylandry bag is just a sack of ritual supplies.

Right, the crane bag isn't it?
Where does the waylandry thing come from? Im not trying to be difficult Im just interested in the derivation and sources.

>>18945912
Hi Ape, great collection, i have a question. What do you think about William Walker Atkinson? Lately i started reading his books and i think im on the right tracks. Could you recommend a similar author, or maybe something that you would advise to read insted. Sorry for grammar i am polandball.

>>18945912

Thank you for this Sir! May the gods be with you forever and always

>>18945969
In my experience, it's very hard to tell unless the conversation comes up. Subtle aesthetic signals like you mentioned can be a good indicator, but only of interest, not of experience.

Id definitely encourage you to look for someone who is older and has one or two aesthetic indicators, but honestly some of the most experienced and knowledgeable people on the subject look like bank clerks or your average citizen.

If you haven't already I would pursue anything you can find on local meetup type sites, they often serve as a spot for local practitioners to get in contact. You may also look at those new age crystal shops for any kind of fliers or advertisement that could connect you to the community.

The community is almost always there, but it's almost always very quiet.

>>18945969
If they seem to disappear for a bit around sunrise, noon, sundown, and midnight, it's a fairly telling sign. But if you're versed in Qabalah and such you can almost tell from their manner of speaking, in my experience. Not that it's entirely reliable. You could try just asking them questions about their beliefs, being sure to indicate that you're not asking to be the Christ police or anything.

Ah sweet, new books.

>>18945934
>Oh wow, Ape. Your library is sooo big.
Gosh, we're all really impressed down here, I can tell you.

>>18946009
I hate to say it, but when I compare mine side by side with Ape's, he has a bigger one than I do.

>>18946009
>>18946011
It aint the size, it's how you use it.
Fortunately for all of us, Ape knows what he's doing too.

>>18946018
>it ain't about the size
tell that to my butthole

>>>18945958
In regards to:

>>18945952

See:

>>>18943433

Be ye warned

Ay, is someone doing a readable version of dee ms cotton appendix or are am I stuck with what we have now for the next inestimable time?

>>18945969
>post this then go do some shopping
>guy in front of me in the checkout has sigils tattooed across his neck
This always happens at the strangest times.
>>18946000
One of the problems with looking for older folks in the scene is that they've grown out of the 'look at how edgy and different I am' phase of it and just look like normal people.
Meetups are a good idea though, there's a lot of meditation groups around but lots of them seem to be trying to sell books and stuff. I'll definitely check them out.
>>18946007
I only know one catholic guy and another muslim dude and that's about it.
Still asking people about the paranormal is a bit scary for me, especially knowing how close minded I was a year or so ago about all of it.

>>18945969
>What are some signs that someone might be into the occult and magic?

His brains doesn't smell like a dog butt.

>>18946072
Please don't put books in your ass.

>>18946264
> lots of them seem to be trying to sell books and stuff.

If you feel you can benefit from their activities just remain adamant that you aren't interested in making a purchase. Honestly though, if the groups are just a front for marketing, tell them to fuck off. In fact tell them to fuck off either way, no one serious is going to be using meditation as a marketing strategy.

>... bit scary for me

Don't ask about the paranormal then. Formulate some questions that will reveal to you what you want to know without revealing your intentions. Of course if that person is an occultist of some kind they're probably going to grok your intention anyway, and this is a good thing, for you.

>>18946295
Look, IDK why you're being so difficult, but I also don't know where the flying fuck else you expect me to keep my library. Ass is the only place big and safe enough.

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>>18945969
>The only 'occult shops' around me are new age crystal shops
If I knew the first thing about business, I would love to open up an occult bookstore.

I think I once had a clever name for it, but I forget what that was. Probably something lame in retrospect, like The Other Side, or Spooktacular Reads.

>>18946317
It was recommended, by Ape, that I, as someone with experience running as business AND the backing to do it, not start one, as the economy is not in a state to support upstart occult shops

>>18946355
Obviously I looked into it a bit further than bouncing it off a random guy on the internet (knowledgeable and apparently trustworthy-to a point- though he may be), and all signs still point to >"bad idea"

>>18946308
And, if you do formulate those questions properly, congrats, you have just down some low-scale, low magick.

>>18946355
>>18946376
Damn.

Anyone have thoughts on why almost every metaphysical phenomenon has become a meme of sorts? There are so many people asking about "How to activate muh [insert semi-literate reference with incomplete understanding here]. I don't even yoga."

Thoughts?

>>18946414
The market is pretty flooded and brick and mortar is dead, but if you have the least bit of marketing savvy and a good webdev, you could theoretically make a killing on the internet just by marketing your shit properly and having the right brand image. It's amateur hour out there.

>>18946446
It is LITERALLY fucking amateur hour out there. You must be in business of some sort?

>>18946459
Nah, I barely have a business minor at the moment. I just thought about gaming Etsy with some well made crap and the right amount of woo in the description. What I do have is enough knowledge of social psych and internet subcultures to read the atmosphere.

>>18946486
College degree can't sub experience. I only have a 2-year degree and I own and run a business. I mean, I plan to go back to school, as I would like to earn at *least* a Master's before I'm planted, I just have to wait until it's financially feasible. Which it should be by next year, when I plan to commence pursuit of my Bachelor's

>>18945912
often heard the term banish in regard to summoning spirits/demons, what exactly does it mean?

Well I know what it means but how do you doit?

Read a pray? Sprinkle holy water? way a cross around?

>>18946518
Many ways to do it, including those you mentioned. Standard in the West is Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (for elemental forces/entities) and Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Hexagram (for solar/planetary forces/entities). You key them to your purposes generally, but there are also 'general banishing' pentagrams/hexagrams that are like jack-of-all-trades, master of none sort of concept. There are Greater Rites too, but no need to concern yourself with those at this point, unless for academic purposes-then, by all means, check em out.

I'm planning on doing my first goetic evocation today, the thing is I'm super sleep deprived. Will that have a negative impact on the summoning?

Also, I was going to use the old by-the-book method but adding a star ruby banish before and using cheaper materials. Does this sound a feasible way for a beginner?

>>18946518
If you plan to google the Rites I mentioned, save yourself the waste of time and check out Thelemapedia or hermetic.com. Or alternatively you can check the mega, but IDK if you want to or are able to download.

>>18946546
Negative impact? Hard to say. Depends on how your body as an individual generally reacts to sleep deprivation, how used to it you are, and a whole host of other factors. Think about it like taking a mild psychedelic before hand:reactions will vary greatly.

I mean, star ruby is great, but it's not 'old by-the-book.'

>>18946553
Oh nevermind I see here what you were saying
>but adding star ruby
>but
my bad

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>>18946496
It doesn't take the degree, but having the knowledge is useful however you get it. So many competent assholes out there who intuitively know a thing or two but don't have the scope to really own the system, not to mention all the fools with the degree who can't apply any of it. At least that's what I found out working retail for 6 years before going back to college. Get stable and do the Masters online, at least that's my plan for what I'm doing.

Not knowing shit about business besides the basics, I feel like the most important thing is the presentation to sell shit at a premium because even if you hemmorage money, you're still making a profit. Tapping multiple micromarkets seems to be the best way to make any money right now, but I'm a lelpsychology major and halfway to really drunk so its all just conjecture based on jewwy science sounding terms and graphs of deviations from the mean.

>>18946564
>psychology
wanna be ahead of the curve?
go read the yokohama manifesto
there's going to be a major paradigm shift in the social sciences in the next decades

>>18945912
Interested in reading more about A. Crowley as in biography. Does anyone here have any good recs? I would prefer one that isn't hyper critical about his lifestyle (drug use, magick or sex life) but at the same time isn't all blinded by hero worship. Something neutral in tone but informative. Any recs?

>>18946589
I would shoot myself in the head before I went academic, but I'll check it out because nothing is better than getting good grades because you seem more attentive than you actually are.

>>18946600
His autobiographies and diaries alongside two conflicting biographies that aren't all the way up his ass or sucking Nazarene cock.

>>18946600
Seconding the diaries suggestion, and his letters. Ape has a ton of them in the library, it's in some degree of disarray but the content is there

A.'.A.'. -> Aleister Crowley -> Diaries
and A.'.A.'. -> Aleister Crowley -> Yorke Microfilms -> Film 09 Diaries

>>18946564
>psychology major
Dont they just hand these things out?

>>18946610
Actually, start with Confessions if you haven't already, then go fuck around on wikipedia for context, then go straight for the diaries, then read secondary sources and anecdotes. Just remember that he lies and everyone involved including him has hangups and self-interest about something or another coloring their view. It's about the only way to get a good picture without being biased from the start.

>>18946589
>Steely Dan from Yokohama
ouch

>>18946589
What's the tldr of this book? What's the paradigm shift in short?

>>18946644
Yes, once you are accepted to a college they don't charge you or make you do any work to pick your major. Actually graduating with said major, however... that's a different story

>>18946644
I was surprised that they don't. There's research and science and conferences involved unlike all those faggots that just pull a paper from their ass and sprinkle some sources on top.

>>18946644

undergrad? definitely. there are approximately three difficult courses in the entire major and only one of them is really required.

>>18946610
>>18946642
thank you for the recs

>>18946656
Stats isn't difficult if you aren't trying to be a counsellor through the worst possible route so I'm curious what the other two are.

>>18946665

i honestly hadn't thought of stats.

it'll depend on the department, obviously, but about half of the people in my class dropped out after the 2-semester methods/apps course.

the others were an elective seminar in neuroscience and cognitive psych.

>>18946684
Lel, I took cognitive and it wasn't hard, though I fucked up and got a C+ because plague and I'm taking cognitive neuroscience in the spring. The hardest part is squishy cunts realizing that psychology isn't therapy. It's SCIENCE, for the most part. One of the easier ones. Still rigorous as fuck.

>>18946702

you can make any course easy, i'm mainly going off how hard my own professors made these courses.

A girl I graduated with, relatively intelligent but your average basic bitch, was weeping on graduation day because she thought a BS in psych qualified her to be a therapist. I nearly laughed in her face.

>>18946656
I really dug psychopharm and neuro II, but I concur.

>>18946665
>>18946684
>undergrad psych stats
>chi squares and t-tests
>"""hard"""
Lemme know when Bayesian starts popping up in lecture. THAT's when it gets hard.

>>18946710
>weeping on graduation day because she thought a BS in psych qualified her to be a therapist. I nearly laughed in her face.

I'm laughing now. Imagine not googling that once at any point of your 4 year undergrad program if those were your career goals

>>18946710
How the hell did she manage to take THAT long to figure it out? My girlfriend knew *before* college that a psych major in and of itself is not a pass to become a therapist.

>>18946710
I am two of 15 in my grade who don't want to be therapists. Shits fucked. Like major in English lit and minor in comparative religion because it's all Campbellian narrative and being able to intuit themes in another person's a story and communicate it back to them Jesus these kids are retarded.

>>18946721
>psychofarm and neuro

I dug those too that's why I majored in neuroscience, not psych heh

>>18946725
>>18946726

Seriously. I couldn't believe that she didn't talk to her advisor ONCE about it. Like, nothing?

I think she's a "life coach" now.

>>18946721
Nigga it's just setting the right prior which is basically being educated enough to guess. Let's talk logs and neural nets if you want to flex that stat dick.

>>18946737
Haha the girl who couldn't even plan her own education according to her goals is a 'life coach.' I get the impression that most 'life coaches' have similar abilities.

>>18946755
It's all bluster and bullshit and basic psychology. You just have to be really good at fanning fires, which is a skill unto itself.

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Bump.

>>18945912
What are they saying during this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4-mZ6MSos
sounds like latin or pig-latin, I have no idea what they are saying? Any language experts here on x?

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>>18946648
Basically the one that's been cooking since the late 90s in Jaan Valsiner's niche discipline of 'cultural psychology' (which sounds self-explanatory but really isn't). Basically a psychology that starts from the highest mental functions instead of the lowest, centered on the irreversibility of time, meaning that mind is a goal-oriented process with imagination as its central function instead of an entity dividable into different faculties and as such not identical with itself over time, rendering most common research approaches inappropriate. It's also concerned not with causation (as for example biopsychology or social psychology are - building on the assumption that physiological states and external inputs determine specific psychological phenomena) but a science of catalysis, meaning that such stimuli determine only the environment in which mental processes play out. Basically a complete reversal of the psychology of categorisation that has been the dominant paradigm since the start of the first world war.

Can't really explain it better, this is the basic gist of it. Introduction's free among the first results if you google it and the book is on libgen. I had the pleasure of meeting Valsiner as he taught at my university and the dude's the only person I've met who I assume was actually enlightened. A remarkable human being. Reading his theories is hard work and I can't say I have fully grasped them but what I have understood helped me greatly in my spiritual quest. Now whenever I read spiritual or magical texts, buddhist or Evola, I always find points of reference where his theories can be applied.

I made a bear meme out of him.

>>18946416
Morons being morons.

>>18946105
You should feel lucky to have what we do.

>>18946085
LBRP

>>18945975
Sabbatic craft.

>>18945996
Fairly shit.

>>18946832
>LBRP
and have him call you in the morning?

>>18946809
Sounds like nonsense, nominally.

But linguistics is just one of my minors.

>>18946812
Neat I'll have to take a peek.

>>18946589
>yokohama manifesto

Can anyone provide a link to the full document?
Im only finding the first 30 pages and really dont have 90 € to spend

>>18946843
I thought it might be Latin, it sounds abit like it, in the book the film was based off its said the coven respond to the head witch in degraded or mongrelised Latin

>>18946857
It's on libgen.io
(a site where you can download all kinds of scientific books and articles fore free)

>>18946843
Neat. Ape taking my suggestion.
I also heartily recommend you Psychology in Black and White by Sergio Salvatore for some more advanced mindfuck cultural psychology.

>>18946869
Ok thank you very much
.io links are all broken but .me seems to work fine. for anyone whos interested

>>18946809
I'm fluent in pig-latin and got like half a minor's worth of linguistic classes under my belt, but I can tell you this is latin. At least part of it is. "discipuli" for example means disciples, and then she yells "evocata" a bunch, which means "summon."

>>18945912
when you summon goetia demons what do they get out of it? I mean I know what the summoner gets but what about the demon? They just like being helpful or do they expect quit pro quo?

>>18946912
Thank ya, I sort of expected as much, thanks for confirming it.

Your even more knowledgeable than this Ape of Thoth!

>>18946935
I also wonder about this, especially interested in "price you didn't expect to pay" stories from regulars here

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>>18946939

i am but a humble discupli ;)

>>18946869
>We might also refer to Kierkegaard, who used the term self more like a verb than a noun and famously defined the self, not as a thing in any way, but as a relation that relates to itself: “The self is a relation that relates itself to itself or is the relation’s relating itself to itself in the relation; the self is not the relation but is the relation’s relating itself to itself” (Kierkegaard 1849, p. 73; see also Taylor 1985)
Hmmmm

Anyone here have experience with yohimbe/yohimbine as a sexual enhancer? Not to treat e.d. per se but to stimulate the sex drive itself?

Any Pyramid anons on tonight? I don't mean to keep asking but I initially got the impression that there was more than just one occasional poster from there?

>>18946832
>Sabbatic craft.
Need to get back to CS reading then.

>>18946317
>>18946355
>>18946376
>>18946414
As someone who just got out of working at a 'metaphysical' place (pretty much exactly one of those new-age crystal shops) I have to agree that there is probably not enough market for a proper 'occult' store. You would have to supplement. Either focus on doing internet and mail order until it can support a brick and mortar just for shits and grins, or set up in a touristy town, sell trinkets and bullshit in the front, and real stuff in the back like some of the botanicas in Louisiana and 'candle shops' throughout the south.

The only other viable option is yet another new age crystal shop, but the endless conversations about chakras and reiki will make you want to kill yourself.

The shop made a decent profit, more than enough to be viable, but the percentage of people who came in who were serious practitioners was probably 1 or 2% of the customer base. You would have to do etsy or internet to avoid starving to death.

That said I feel like an occult store online and brick and mortar, who specialized in "hard to find" occult and magic(k)al materials may be viable but it would be a lot of work sourcing all the weird shit.

>>18947134
Not to mention the fact that a lot of dedicated practitioners are making shit themselves. They still need the resources with which to construct, but that is stuff more easily found in regular shops. Still, it would be convenient as hell to get it all in one place

>>18947105

There are, they just don't necessarily advertise their presence to all and sundry. Just say what you need to say and somebody will get back to you if they feel like it.

>>18947134

Not to mention hearing about their cat "Isis" or the Earth Mother.

>>18947134
The more viable option is a "used book store" with a nice 'occult' section that you curate specifically while also pairing up with like, I dunno, a headshop or a supply store (candles, incense) that you DON'T price gouge.

Etsy is an inherently more viable option but that requires more specialized inventory.

>>18947151
^^^This.
A Hobby Lobby with a pentacle instead of a Bible.

>>18947152
>Not to mention hearing about their cat "Isis" or the Earth Mother.
>hating on the shop cats
BUT FLOOFY KIBBIES!!!

>>18947152
I mean, I was just trying to strike up a conversation. Last person literally came out and told me, with little prompting other than me asking Ape a question about the lodge. I would think the relative anonymity of 4chan and the 7 proxies everyone seems to have around here, it would be safe.

>>18947172
I mean, I'm an OTO initiate too if you have specific chatty questions.

I'm just no longer attached to any given local body (though it was nice hearing Soror Hypatia tell me that no matter what, as long as I'm not on Bad Report I *AM* the local OTO, body or not).

>>18947184
Thanks dude. I was more interested in asking questions about the particular lodge, but I am sensing attitude. looks like they have a killer temple. Part of me wants to make a facebook in order to establish a more informal contact with them, but the rest of me says "fuck facebook, fuck social media." So I drop in this thread, which I love doing anyway.

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>>18945912
How do I protect myself from someone using chi, magic and energy manipulation on me?

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>>18947198
Looks small but the temple floor seems nice.

>>18947184
Sweet Qabalistic exegesis of AHIH in /his/
It really rustled my jimmies good and hard. That and the yohimbine I took.

>>18947204

The more you worry and focus on it, the more control you give them over you. If you don't care and allow them no entry in to yourself, then they can't do a damn thing. Go read Psychic Self Defense, Dion covers this.

>>18947206
Yeah, I mean, some of the other pics I've seen of other places, and particularly a vid I watched of the Mass on yt, looked like it was someone's basement complete with prison lighting.

Any idea why they would use that pic instead of a clearer one? Are those supposed to be some kind of manifestation, or dust particles?

>>18947207
Never tried Yohimbine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q89rgdmGKVM

>>18947215
Atmosphere.

>>18947233
Ah. Nifty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYyNRUGqss4

>>18947184
wasn't she at WBL? I was thinking about taking my minerval from them, what do you reckon?

>>18947289
Yup.
That's Rich K's wife.
She's a nice woman if a bit organizationally conservative (for example, my Local Body Master was slandering the local body in court as "evil Satanists". I took the stand in defense of Thelema. Hypatia told me that was the bravest thing she'd heard from the Man of Earth triad in a while, but that if I were under her jurisdiction she'd have prohibited me from doing it).

They seem fine, though the "I cross the Abyss" fag in the other thread said he/others were trying to start shit in the Lodge so mind your Ps and Qs.

>>18947297
I don't get how people think they can convince anyone they crossed by fucking bragging online. It immediately invalidates their claim.

>>18945912
Anything on shamanism?

>>18947302
In another thread where I called him out on the "I don't have to prove myself, but I'm bragging about it online" schtick, he said, oh I would post my journals and stuff but I can't figure out how. Weak ass roleplay.

>>18945928
why would you WANT that...

you must be lonely.

when you look into darkness, darkness looks into you...

>>18947304
Shitloads.
See the Shamanic folder.

>>18947309
I wouldn't even claim Adepthood publicly.

>>18945969
one of our temps was very weird

she started talking to me about aleister crowley which was weird bc obviously I'm here talking to you about this.

i believe that others will find you, if you truly are 'powered' ...otherwise that goth girl at the magic shop will be a normie once the shtick doesn't freak out her parents anymore.

>>18947297
That person was actually me relating the story of civil unrest in the body, not the "middle finger of mercury" fella. It wasn't me/others, I was involuntarily added to a group chat with a buncha lads being hella dramatic because they didn't like the new body master's way of enforcing dah rules.

>>18947325
Nothing came of it though. The agitator moved across the country and everyone else was sort of like "yeah! That is fucked up" and then did nothing at all. I was just paying attention because I (not) secretly love drama

>>18947325
As far as I know Soror Hypatia's not the LBM, because she's an SGIG and well beyond local body management in the fold of the Rose Cross Chapters.

Just don't get dragged into anyone's cliquey shit or you're group's gonna wind up like one of the midwest bodies that got nuked because the priest slapped the shit out of his wife in the middle of Gnostic Mass.

>>18947332
>priest slapped the shit out of his wife in the middle of Gnostic Mass.

Gonna need a quick rundown, please.

>>18947332
Oooooh shit no way! Like, in a kinky way?? Or

Hypatia isn't the LBM, no

>>18947342
>Like, in a kinky way
No.

>>18947340
Priest and priestess are married.
They were fighting all day before mass.
She told him where he could shove his bullshit.
He popped her in the mouth.
Grand Lodge told them all fuck off with that shit and nuked the local body.

Four local midwest bodies have been nuked in the last, like, five years, all but one due to the same fuckwit who they keep transferring to burn more LBMs to the ground because they'll let any sycophant on earth rise to 5th if they suck cock well.

>>18947151
>it would be convenient as hell to get it all in one place
That was sort of the idea I was trying to infer. They can make their own shit, but its hard as hell to find something weirdly specific like "pink african ivorywood" or meteoric iron or something.

>>18947152
>Not to mention hearing about their cat "Isis" or the Earth Mother.
We had one of those cats too... so fucking glad Im out of there. Fun Fact for all these new age crystal witches... Hecates patron animal is a dog, not a cat.

>>18947171
>A Hobby Lobby with a pentacle instead of a Bible.
This is ideal in my opinion. Hobby Lobby with a specially curated book section, hard to find materials (and easy materials), and maybe a section of pre-crafted stuff that practitioners may have a hard time making on their own, like, say, meteoric iron daggers.

>>18947204
most people here will say "LBP" and that works, but pretty much any simple uncrossing or anti-magic kind of charm will do the trick, layer your defenses, can never have enough good luck and protection.

>>18947323
>that goth girl at the magic shop will be a normie once the shtick doesn't freak out her parents anymore.
So much this.

>>18947361
Man half inch beads of meteorite are hard enough to find.

>>18947367
Hard to find because they're deep in my ass. Cosmic anal, get on my level

>>18947370
You seem to have an unhealthy anal fixation.
May I suggest some psychoanalysis.
Might help.

>>18947357
Woof. Wish people would keep their relationship drama out of OTO. Also like, at what point did he slap her? Like when in the mass?

>>18947376
If you were thinking they are the anon with a library in their ass as well, that's actually me, and I have a perfectly healthy anal fixation.

>>18947376
I'm getting some dude don't you worry but there's no need to keep the meteors out in the meantime

I'm also a different anon than the anal library from earlier, you're overrun with anally fixated anons tho

>>18947382
>Like when in the mass?
Yes.
While the congregation gaped in slack jawed abject horror.

I'd have taken the spear to his dick were I in attendance, because obviously the symbol was more potent than his own wand.

>>18947383
Duly noted.

>>18947387
I think he meant, during which portion of the Mass did it occur? IDK that's how I read it.

I'm glad, I hope you don't forget my healthy fixation if we ever cross paths!

>>18947389

I did mean that, thank you for clarifying, my anally fixated counterpart

>>18947389
I dunno when, exactly.

If I had to GUESS I imagine it was round the disrobing part.

I only know what comes down my pipeline.

>>18947395
Jaysis.

That's when you wrench the spear from his hand and pass it to the priestess to get some justice in that situation

>>18947367
again, the attraction of the business online is to source and prepare these extremely hard to find things. I know meteoric iron is slim pickings as it is, but I know of multiple places where enough of it could be had to make a blade. Of course they'd have to pay an appropriate price for the service, but it would be there.

>>18947409
>tfw not an owner of archaeological crystal spear tips or early cold hammered meteoric iron blades

>>18947414
I got to touch a giant meteor at a privately owned museum once, it was siiick

>>18947409
Not many places will let people prospect for meteoric iron. Usually that stuff is reserved by geologists for research purposes and military applications. You must have some obscure knowledge about that topic.

>>18947171
>Hobby Lobby with a pentacle instead of a Bible
I would love it if this were a thing. I enjoy sewing and other handicrafts, but I hate giving Hobby Lobby my money :(

>>18947679
You don't have a Michael's where you live?

Is it normal to get really qarm and sweaty from meditation? It feels really fross afterwards.

>>18947558
Dont misunderstand I dont know of any scatter fields to go prospecting in, but I do know of several sources for getting meteorites in small quantity, but sufficient to make something out of. I think that once the bigger pieces are snapped up by various institutes and agencies, the debris fields are just ignored, theyre not looking for the little 12g pieces of rough iron.

What is in your opinion THE group to join for draconian path?

>>18948234

you stupid fucking child. Oink oink little piggy, here comes the lamb.

>>18948248
woah

>>18948248

what are you smoking?

How do I get into the occult and will God hate me for it?

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>>18948430
By even asking that question you have damned yourself to an eternity in hell.
Better not make it two eternities.

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Happy Fucking Saturday, y'all.

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Ape, do you have a scan of The Manson File in your library?
It highlights some of the more occult aspects of the case and the events surrounding it. Also, the truth.
I recently found a copy of it on soulseek after searching the web to no avail.

>>18948649
Happy Saturday!

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>>18948656
Plus it's written by Anton Lavey's son in law.

>>18948656
He's not gonna have that.
See what I started - all because I just like bad ass bitches. :\

Go ask in one of the Hybristophilia threads.
One of them will have it.

>>18948657
Barry Dubin is a punk bitch.

>>18948065
That sounds like a beauteous expedition in the making. The debris fields should be exploited with a process more like gold mining than geological sampling. I assume that you might cast the ore together by conventional means, but it would be interesting if it were sintered together with spiritually valuable materials.

May I ask what the intended use of this object might be?

>>18947679
They could build a cafe into the shoppe and sell invigorating beverages to showcase some of the exotic materials.

>>18945912
I was listening to this track last week and thought it would be thematic music for the thread. A keen ear might hear how close Sumerian sounds to Iraqi Arabic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs

The Epic Of Gilgamesh In Sumerian - Peter Pringle

>>18948856
>May I ask what the intended use of this object might be?

Hell if I know, I'm not well versed enough in CS. I started reading but Ive been too busy selling people crystals and sage. #basicwitch Ive just heard Ape and others speaking of meteoric iron knives for ritual purposes.

Also I dont intend to go harvest up the meteorites myself, pretty sure the plane ticket to china would fuck up my profit margins. Someone goes out there and collects up all the little meteor scatterings for resale. Theyre out there and available.

>>18948894
>Ive just heard Ape and others speaking of meteoric iron knives for ritual purposes.
The knife is mostly a requirement for Azoetia.

DBoE mentions it but is somewhat more interested in using meteoric iron beads as talismans.

>>18948901
Im not sure if I actually like sabbatic craft or I just like the accessorization.

>>18948925
It's a very aesthetic system.

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>>18948856
>>18948894
>>18948901
I would love the hell out of a chunk of space iron.
I would take it down to the ferrier guild down the road from my house and have them forge something for me out of it.
Maybe a really fokken hoss horseshoe or rail spike, or some square head nails.
Any debris fields in SE United States?

>>18948993
oops Found

http://www.meteorites4sale.net/Locations/MLocations.htm

>>18948993
Not that I'm aware of.

>>18949002
>debris field very very near me
Wew lassie.

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>>18949014

>>18948992
Has anything else with so much thought put into it come out of the chaos current?

>>18949048
Kaos 14 and the XAOC-BABALON Current informed by the work of Joel B. and Satyr.

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>>18945912
Thank you for the Library, I was looking for this exact collection for a while, It is compiled so so well all together. :^)

>>18948992
I appreciate aesthetics, I know that comes off as shallow but there is a certain power to it that I think is pretty undeniable.

>>18948993
> would take it down to the ferrier guild down the road from my house and have them forge something for me out of it.
Understand that a lot of what is left is little tiny pieces, were talking like 10-20 grams a piece or so, smaller than the last digit of your pinky, youre going to need to collect quite a bit if youre finding it yourself. If youre purchasing it, it's expensive, somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-4$/g or so. Enough to melt down into even a small blade is going to be a couple hundred dollars just for the material.

That said, a meteoric iron horseshoe charm (a fullsize horseshoe would be way expensive) or nails would be boss af. Zarabanda would have to get in on that shit.

>>18949002
>>18949014
yeah there's actually a ton of sites, I dont know where any of them are really because people guard the locations for obvious reasons, but the material IS available at wholesale and retail.

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>>18949042
I still want to be Allison.

On a side note, Bender+Allison is clearly the patrician's choice couple, fuck Claire. Basic bitch.

May be posting yet another update to /his/.

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>>18949060
That's fine - money is not object to me right now.
I have basically nothing left to lose and no fucks are being given.

But, I'd still like to find it myself.
Anguish makes the object stronger, and teaches you things.
And yes, I know I'm talking about metal detector + hands and knees searching for pieces less than the size of a dime for months on end until I had enough for a full size horseshoe.

I mean.. hell... I traded in death tainted cash for human bones.
I don't do things because I think their going to be easy.
I do things BECAUSE they hurt, and they're hard, and they take time and dedication.
And they harder they are, the more I will want to do them, and the more persistent I will be.
Nothing I have was ever given to me.
Everything I have I paid for.
The more time and pain and mental distress it's going to cause me, the more I want it.

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>>18949106
>dat altitude tan
>compared to the others
Crowley did nothing wrong on Kanchenjunga.

>>18949106
well tear it up sister, I just wanted to let you know what you were getting into.

>>18948656
Someone in one of these threads made a comment that Manson wasn't a killer because he didn't part take in the famous killings. Well, IDK how accurate it is, but apparently the Beach Boy that was buddies with him came into the studio one day and told the other guys about seeing Manson shoot a dude with an M-16/AR-15 and stuff him down a well... Anyone know this story?

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>>18949113
They went to the mattress store and picked out that bed. They wanted it. They put their sheets and blankets on it, and then it was time to lay down in it.
They made that bed for themselves...
Stupid mistakes happen all the damn time in climbing.
It's not like he went and unhooked the fixed ropes (not like they HAD fixed ropes back then).

Let this be a lesson to the kids - YOU make the bed, I don't want to hear a damn word from you or your side bitching.

>>18948993
>not wanting to make a kickass space sword

>>18948656
>I recently found a copy of it on soulseek after searching the web to no avail

It took literally 5 seconds to find it on scribd

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This is probably the best board/thread to post this since people here are both readers and nice people:
Where do you get your ebooks (other then Ape's library of course)? I know libgen and sci-hub but I have trouble finding some things on there. I also found a trick to download from scribd without an account but I was wondering if you clever people have some more tips and tricks to share.

>>18949150
Other than soulseek, not really.
Freebookspot.
Kala Sampa's VK wall.

>>18948649
Happy Saturn's day!

>>18949150
#bookz, but it's really only good for novels.

>>18949153
Ape, I be havin da troubles wiv da Naples arrangement. Particularly first 3 equations. Where can I look for clarification?

I also am having trouble with the big Tarot operation, where he says "count the cards away from him, counting 7 for the planetary trumps, 12 for the zodiacal trumps, &c." does he mean add up the total, using those numbers a values of the cards? It's not quite clear to me.

>>18949219
I don't really fuck with the Naples arrangement.

Anybody know about
>I also am having trouble with the big Tarot operation, where he says "count the cards away from him, counting 7 for the planetary trumps, 12 for the zodiacal trumps, &c." does he mean add up the total, using those numbers a values of the cards? It's not quite clear to me.

?

So why is the goetia considered authentic?

>>18949219
>>18949246
There are 22 trump cards (major arcana) in the Tarot. If a spread is asking for 19 (7+12) trump cards, I'd doubt the validity of that spread.

>>18949274
no, it's not that. The operation involves cutting the deck into four progressively smaller decks, finding the significator, then spreading that entire portion out, counting it out toward the querent, and that's when the weird numerical attribution thing comes in that I don't quite understand. It's from the Book of hoth

>>18949298
*Book of Thoth. And see I'm about as confused as you are about it. The only think I can think it means is to assign those values to each card, then check the correspondences for the sum and use them in the divination, but there is a qualifying sentence somewhere in there that makes this interpretation seem doubtful.

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>Book of hoth
>hoth
Kek

Post the passage

>>18949322
It's gonna be all fucked up format-wise, sorry.

First Operation
This shows the situation of the Querent at the time when he consults you.
1. The pack being in front of you, cut, and place the top half to the left.
2. Cut each pack again to the left.
3. These four stacks represent I H V H, from right to left.
4. Find the Significator. If it be in the Yod pack, the question refers to work, business, etc.; if in the Heh pack, to love, marriage, or pleasure;, if in the Vau pack, to trouble, loss, scandal, quarrelling, etc.; if in the He’ final pack, to money, goods, and such purely material matters.
5. Tell the Querent what he has come for: if wrong, abandon the divination.
6. If right, spread out the pack containing the Significator, face upwards.
Count the cards from him, in the direction in which he faces.
The counting should include the card from which you count.
For Knights, Queens and Princes, count 4.
For Princesses, count 7.
For Aces, count 11
For small cards, count according to the number.
For trumps, count 3 for the elemental trumps; 9 for the planetary trumps; 12 for the Zodiacal trumps.
Make a “story” of these cards. This story is that of the beginning of the affair.
7. Pair the cards on either side of the Significator, then those outside them, and so on. Make another “story”, which should fill in the details omitted in the first.
8. If this story is not quite accurate, do not be discouraged. Perhaps the Querent himself does not know everything. But the main lines ought to be laid down firmly, with correctness, or the divination should be abandoned.
Second Operation

>>18949359
Yeah, it just means you're assigning a value per card - the sum deals with the divination. As >>18949319 said.

>>18947357
I was interested in joining OTO, but do you really just apply through emailing them? I'm not even sure there's a lodge near me, if the only ones they have in the UK are the ones on the website

>>18948894
The substance has a higher durability than most iron. I have made a sage smudge recently, and it worked well enough that I might set up an etsy. I will let all regulars here know if I have some goodies to share.

>>18948901
Thanks for the information.

>>18948993
I would also like to obtain some. I wish I knew of a nearby ferrier's guild. Metal casting has always been an interest of mine.

I think that the quantities available would be mostly sufficient for small charms.

>>18949002
Thanks for the resource.

Now, I need to find a site that doesn't have "private pool parties" adjacent. *Obligatory Animorphs joke*

>>18949398
Lol i thought you were an animorphs person from your name. Tobias was my shit

>>18949106
Maybe you should cool down before tackling the next adventure. It does not impair you to rest whist planning. Try to take a classical compass, and then use the metal detectors in places where the needle moves erratically.

>>18949385
It's not like an application, you email them to contact, then they will ask for your number, and depending on the lodge, the lodge master is supposed to call and ask you some basic questions, then I think you can start going to various meetings and things. That's the way it appears to be where I live in US anyway

it seems like you might be supposed to already have a significator in mind? You can do this by just picking a card out of the deck with your question being "show me a significator for the following operation/question." Then put it back in the deck and proceed as instructed.

Once you do your cutting of the deck (4 piles) you go through the piles until you find your significator. The numerical assignments I THINK are how many cards you lay out in front of you, based on what type of card the significator was. So if your significator was a prince, for example, you'd lay out 4 cards, first one closest to the quearant

>>18949375
Thank you so much for clearing that up. That was my assumption, but the whole
>The counting should include the card from which you count.
Threw me off because I didn't think Crowley ever made statements about such obvious things, so I figured there had to be some deeper meaning.

>>18949415
Oh, right, thanks. Well, I suppose dropping them an Email can't hurt

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>>18949411
The truth is stranger than fiction.

>>18949426
There is also an initiatory degree - 0, Minerval, or "Honored Guest". It's essentially a trial degree to see if the OTO is right for you.

>>18949417
Hmmm... I mean, it says to spread them face upwards and count them out from the querent, I was thinking that means the entire significator pack?

>>18949446
>trial degree
It's more initiatory than 1st.

>>18949464
Do you mean?

>The Minerval Degree (0°) is an introductory Initiate degree in which the aspirant is considered an “honored guest” of O.T.O. rather than a full member. The Minerval degree is designed to allow the aspirant to decide whether or not to pursue full membership, and to allow potential sponsors the opportunity to decide whether to support the aspirant’s application for full membership. Minervals may begin preliminary novitiate training under an E.G.C. Bishop towards ultimate ordination to the Diaconate and/or Priesthood in Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, but they are not eligible for ordination or for service as an officer of a Local Body.
>The First Degree (I°) bestows full membership upon the initiate. A First Degree initiate may retire from active participation in O.T.O., but the spiritual link forged between the initiate and the Order during the ceremony of the First Degree will remain throughout the initiate’s life. An initiate of the Second Degree is eligible for ordination as a deacon of Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica.

>>18949470
1st degree is less "initiation" and more naked "ritual".
0 is light on ritual but pregnant with initiatory implication.

>>18949478
Ah, thanks for the clarification.

>>18949488
Ah, I remember when I discovered *my* first repression.

Anyone know what sephira and/or planet Copal is attributed to?

Bump

>>18948807
>Barry Dubin is a punk bitch.

I remember Keith418 having lunch with him, back in their Manson days.

>>18949524

Fairly similar to frankincense.

>>18949529
Thanks. You know where Complete Magician's table are in the link? Apparently they are more complete than 777

>>18949537

No, sorry.

>>18947134
>That said I feel like an occult store online and brick and mortar, who specialized in "hard to find" occult and magic(k)al materials may be viable but it would be a lot of work sourcing all the weird shit.
This would be a decent enough situation, I think. I just happen to like the thought of people walking into a strange shop of curios, but dealing online would be good too, and I would love to work with rare books and artifacts/antiques dealing with the occult.

Was also thinking it might be good to dabble in horror/fantasy/scifi books, movies, comics, and merchandise. But maybe that's spreading myself out too much.

>>18949529
>I remember Keith418 having lunch with him, back in their Manson days.
But I thought Keith was a Boyd Rice kinda dude.
Playing for both teams, I see ;)

>Anyone associated with Grant is trash
>Barry Dubin's werewolf order? He's legit enough to have a meal with, like patrician noblesirs do.

>>18949537
In Libri.

>>18949550
Thanks...Liber#?

>>18949566
No.
Just go to the Libri folder.
There are a number of loose books at the bottom that should be libri but aren't.
It's in there.

>>18949573
WOWW IDK how I missed that. Retardation, very likely. Thank you

So, if the K&C of HGA is the completion of the Great Work, how come it occurs at/represents attainment of 5=6, and what is the Work considered to be in the higher grades?

>>18949573
Hey Ape I didn't wanna be too much of an ass in the other thread but if you want to know more about our resident Ipsissimus/AIWAZ, see here:

http://churchofmabusradio.com/church-of-mabus/christopher-hunter-meyers-synchronicity-chaos-magician/

>>18949727
I give zero fucks about what madness this boi's smoked himself into.

Alright, I'm seriously interested about joining the OTO. There is a local lodge that I will be contacting that is not too far from where I live. I understand that they can help guide me through the process; but any sort of advice would be much appreciated. Is there anything I should outright avoid?

I know that I will be spending a lot of time in the A.'. A.'. folder; but where to begin? Do I start with Aleister Crowley? Class A documents/Book of Law? Do I jump into Thelema first? Should I start performing Liber Resh daily and getting into the habit of it?

I have a cursory knowledge of Thelema and the EGC. I also understand that the OTO is, for lack of better understanding, the more "practical" sister of the A.'. A.'. - am I right in this assumption?

>>18949729
Nigga, either some brains are more susceptible to drugs than others, or he has more than drug induced brain damaged. By that logic, I should think I'm Nefertiti and you should think you're frikkin Ra

>>18948436
lol

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>>18949760
I mean, you don't have to hold my hand or anything. I'd just like some general direction to put forth my energy and time.

>>18949478
Ape, you stated
>0 is light on ritual but pregnant with initiatory implication
What are those implications? Anything to know beforehand?

I'd hate to look like a complete idiot in the midst of serious, competent practitioners.

>>18950188
>Anything to know beforehand?
You'll be interrogated.
You BETTER have a damn good answer, too.

>>18950194
>You BETTER have a damn good answer, too.

See! This is what I mean!

What kind/sort of questions are envolved?

>>18950249
The only one that matters.
Just don't parrot some tired cliche and give an answer that's actually sincere and relevant.

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>post experiences in the DMT thread
>faggot says it's fake and I've never done it
>post my DMT supplies; pipe, crystals in solvent suspension, mimosa hostilis root bark
>no replies

Y-you'll tell me I'm cool, right, /omg/?

>>18950274
So cryptic. Do they just want to test my knowledge of the texts?

>>18950300
No they want to test your knowledge of yourself.
I mean, if you really really wanna know I have the ritual script in the library.
I'm not going to ruin it for you.
You'll do that of your own volition.

>>18950307
I have your library. You okay? You seem upset. I know my worth.

>ruin it
>You'll do that of your own volition
Encouraging. Alright, guess I'll just continuing reading then.

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Lesser_Ritual_of_the_Pentagram
>(xvi) And in the Column stands the six-rayed Star.
Is this a typo? Wouldn't it be 5 rayed star?

>>18950319
>I know my worth.
Do you?
*wink*
Lemme ask you this.
*wink*
Why the hell are you even here?

>>18950297
So much side eye.
>>18950300
Damn it, if you are not even an initiate yet, how in the Sam Actual Hell are you supposed to have knowledge of texts?
That's not how the world actually freaking works.
They're probably gonna ask you something like,
"Tell us one good reason we should take you.
Because, if you don't have a damn good reason for getting to stay, we're gonna toss you out on your ear."
I'm not sure there would be anything worse than getting tossed out on your ear.
The embarrassment of that is probably enough incentive for most people to think of a decent answer.

>>18950334
>"Tell us one good reason we should take you.
>Because, if you don't have a damn good reason for getting to stay, we're gonna toss you out on your ear."
>I'm not sure there would be anything worse than getting tossed out on your ear.
>The embarrassment of that is probably enough incentive for most people to think of a decent answer.
>>18950327
>Why the hell are you even here?

>The embarrassment of that is probably enough incentive for most people to think of a decent answer.
You would be fucking floored by how many dumb answers people give.
I've heard...maybe seventeen Minervals give their response.
Mine was the only that didn't get torn to shreds by the initiator.

>>18950334
>>18950327
And see, Ape confirms my guesstimate.
Go outside, do some shit, meet some people.
Practice more, read less.
Do that for ten more years and then try again.
Cause you sure as hell aren't ready now.

>>18950326
Hexagram. Check the back of your tau robe.

>>18950327
>Why the hell are you even here?
I've seen footage.

>>18950327
>Why the hell are you even here?
I know that I have a higher purpose - I want to become spiritually elevated.

>>18950334
>"Tell us one good reason we should take you. Because, if you don't have a damn good reason for getting to stay, we're gonna toss you out on your ear."

I have a plethora of reasons to become apart of something greater than I. I have strengths to offer, weaknesses to work on.

>>18950343
I'm well traveled, a warm, approachable person, I've experienced pleasures/disparity, I've overcome trials/tribulations, I'm well to do materially/money-wise, etc.

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>>18950368
Soooo you're greedy and covetous and a narcissist and disingenuous?

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>>18950368

Saying it and being it are two separate things, friend. The fool thinks himself wise, and the wise man knows he's a fool.

>>18950372
Not at all.

>>18950373
I'm not unwilling to admit that I know nothing.

>>18950368
>I know that I have a higher purpose - I want to become spiritually elevated.
I'm not going to tell you what I'd say if I were your initiator. That would be mean.

Makes this skepticism here >>18950372 look like a pat on the head from grandma.

>>18950368
>I know that I have a higher purpose
Egotistical
>I want
Greedy
>I have strengths to offer
Ego
>I'm well to do materially/money
Narcissism
>>18950378
Not at all.
Disingenuous.


Like I said - TRY AGAIN LATER.

I'm finally at home, yesterday all hell broke loose here in Brazil. I didn't see most of it because I was stuck in the city where I work.

>>18950395
>my initiating officer response when:
https://youtu.be/GpZAjECPphk

>>18950385
Isn't that, more or less, what Thelema purports? That you are apart of a spiritual journey - one that is eternal. That this life is a learning experience of sorts - leading you to be elevated later?

>>18950395
I swear to you, I'm not disingenuous. How can I prove to you otherwise?

>>18950404
I'll tell you this.

The only thing worse than quoting Liber L or saying something about 'muh will' is framing the response in terms of what you or the Order have or aspire to.

https://youtu.be/CIH-OlxUTn0

>>18950344
you don't need a robe for a basic banishing do you?

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>>18950418
I wear one all the time, puts me in the right mood.

>>18950404
I'd tell you the right answer, but no one would believe it coming out of your mouth.

>>18950424
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27LLPANAgzw
>Goin' to Heliopolis where the Sun hangs tall.

>>18950424
Don't tell me. I'd rather fail and learn than to have everything handed to me.

>>18950413
I don't want a framed response - I want honesty.

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>>18950404
LOL.
Are you begging me to torture you?
Are you a masochist?

Kid, the only way you can prove it is if you pause for 120 seconds before every time that you speak, type, or otherwise write or communicate in any form to any one else and psychoanalyze your ACTUAL intent in the words you were about to use to express yourself.

I'm not going to set a time limit.
Welcome to your own personal existential hell, kiddo.

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>>18950452
You know that voice inside my head that likes to tell me how everything I ever say or do is fucking stupid and I'm a shitty person for it? You need to listen to him.

>>18950463
Palo...what if I told you I think the word "Quimbanda" is Tupi in origin?

>>18950463
>Are you begging me to torture you?
>Are you a masochist?
Bring it on. I can take whatever you dish out. If you wish to test me, I'd be happy to oblige.

>Kid
>kiddo
And you say I'M egotistical. Is this kind of condescension a part of you testing me in some manner?

>existential hell
I've been already been there for a few years. It doesn't phase me anymore.

>>18950470
Am I listening to the voice in YOUR head? Lel

>>18950472
Not sure what I think.
Quimbanda is an odd word when you look at it in comparison to the rest of the names of the different diaspora belief systems.
I'm not familiar with the Tupi culture or what their spoken language sounds like to really make an educated opinion.
I can say that the things I have seen of Quimbanda I have noticed there are some things that I can't put my finger on that strike me as being different in tone and style.
The chants and dances are stylistically more tribal and repetitive to me than the Cuban and Puerto Rican traditions.
But, they are still different in style from the Haitian traditions.
I am supposing that these differences arise because you can notice the African influence wether it was Western, North Western, or more Central African in nature.
Then, is the secondary influence French or Continental Spanish?
Then what Indigenous North or Central or South American tribe is the tertiary influence?

I don't know - this is turning into stream of conciousness jibber jabber.
Do you have an audio reference for the Tupi spoken language?
Or is it dead to the world?

Why is everyone in this thread being so edgy all of a sudden?
I know you're trying to join a cult but everyone's treating it like you're trying to become the president or some shit.

>>18950516
The dialects I'm tinkering with are dead.

In Rio there was a population calling themselves "Tupiniquim". "Quim" means, near, neighboring, set aside, or different from. "Quim-Banda".

>Colonial French or Spanish
Intuition would say French but the Western streams of Afrocarib influence are markedly Peninsular (Cyprian, etc.).

>>18950518
>I know you're trying to join a cult but everyone's treating it like you're trying to become the president or some shit.

Haha - I know, right? I don't know what brought about this attitude. I just asked for general pointers and maybe some books to read.

I'm assuming it's some sort of occultist test to see if I'll crack or fold under pressure/confrontation

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>>18950518
There's a certain irony in trying to join an occult order requiring large amounts of self-reflection about subtle aspects of inner life and outward expression when you can't even answer a simple fucking question honestly and not realize you sound like a nonce. This is how you learn, fuck they're being nice. The masons used to throw you down a well for the hell of it.

>>18950531
It's worse in the A.'.A.'.

They make you write out three question responses while starved and sleep deprived.

>>18950536
Jesus Christ, how horrifying. Sounds like my final papers last week.

Have you found the self-initiatory routes to be much worse than the usual prescriptions? A good portion of the Craft involves going out in the woods for a number of days and trying not to die or going to the store on mushrooms to buy ingredients for a cake without a list.

>>18950536
Do they give you a pencil with an eraser to write with?
Or an erasable ink pen?
Do you have to write in cursive, or can you print, or just write however way you write?
Is it a timed test? Or can you have as much time as you need to write down the answers.
It just doesn't SEEM worse.
So I'm trying to figure out if there's some weird rules that they don't tell you about.... or what?

>>18950556
When you self initiate, if you actually know what you're doing, you can push boundaries as outfits will tend to softball your ordeals because we dunno how like disabled you may or may not be.

It is/was MUCH harder to unpack the whole "knowledge lecture" thing to explain what means what but working with the materials long enough should give a sane sense of what's going on. Did for me.

>>18950568
I'd ruin the surprise.
The guy with my CS notes has a big chunk of my knowledge lectures on the rites.
The gist of it is there is no right answer; they're archival materials for the benefit initiator and candidate, and you'll get chastised REALLY hard no matter what you write whereas in the OTO you can sorta squirm your way into an acceptable answer.

Alright, I get it. The initiatory phase is rough. Some physical anguish and spiritual hazing. They want to see if you're dedicated, loyal, strong, etc. I can keep a secret better than the next guy.

>>18950575
Greaaaaat.... sounds like working for my 9-5 boss.
More fun than a barrel of self-hating monkeys.

>>18950605
There's always self-initiation into your own praxis through sheer will, dream incubation, and whatever initiating authority is willing to put up with you. It's like being on salary.

>>18949679
I thought the complete Work was the crossing of the abyss (i.e., knowledge of the Supernal Triad), and that the K&C is really only step 1 in that grand scheme?

(I'm not a Thelemite so I'm probably way off here)

how to find an occult gf?
not the goth kind...
or the wiccan...

>>18950528
>Colonial French or Spanish

Andalusian.

There is not a good reason to romanize with 'quim' unless you are using a semitic particle to reference inclusivity, or black.

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>>18950633
>not wanting a goth gf

>>18950633
>33
How appropriate.

>>18950605
You sound like someone who wants to sell new age jewelry on the weekends. I did not like that job, but I think my Y chromosome made me a target for discrimination on the floor. The fun part was telling potential customers about the centaurs in judeo-celtic syncretism.

>>18950643
I would settle for visigoth.

>>18950635
Possibly, I'm also thinking something like a strip from Braga all the way through Basque country; the point remains Quim was a readily available lexical item that does well to distinguish this from that already in use around RdJ.

>>18950655
That sounds like your explanation lacks concurrency.

>>18950575
Send me your decent email address if you haven't already.
I can't with the Peanut Gallery right now.
So.... I'm gonna go watch some more Backporch Tapes and eat Dutch Chocolate Ice Cream and enjoy this sinus infection.
Catch ya later, Baba Coyotl.

>>18950692
How so?
The region had a colonial hand in the RdJ area, which had Afro diaspora and Tupi speakers who frequently used the term "quim" to distinguish themselves as apart or distinct, as Quimbanda is apart from or distinct from Umbanda.

de Souza reports that escaped plantation workers had already "gone native" adopting full Tupian dress and healing modes by 1700. Add a splash of St. Cyprian and boom: Quimbanda.

>>18950699
The arguments about pre-columbian contacts with the americas do not vary by centuries.

>>18950714
?
Who's talking about precolumbian contact? I'm talking about the colonial context.

>>18950699
No idea wtf anyone is talking about in the thread, though I enjoyed the secret cults RP.

Anyway I am surprised you guys kniw about St. Cyprian. I am aware of him cause Orthodox fag but did not know occultist acknowledged him.
How you guys view him?

>>18950724
>How you guys view him?
Patron of necromancers and informing component of Afro-Syncretic religions.

>>18950722
There is more accuracy in an older context.

>>18950729
This is real interesting. Thanks mate, gonna look more into it.
Necromancy is one of my fave subjects. Any pointers?

>>18950730
I'm not sure I follow.
Like at all.

All's I'm saying is "We have reports of the African diaspora penetrating Amerind, particularly Tupi culture. Tupi used the term "Quim" to demarcate themselves against others. Tupi were crawling all over RdJ at the time of this diaspora. Quimbanda developed in RdJ. "Quim" is an out of place nomenclature in Afro-Syncretic faith. Maybe the African populations lifted the term "Quim" to distinguish practice A (Quimbanda) from practice B (Umbanda)."

I dunno how we're gonna get accuracy in an older context because if we go much older than the colonial contact, there were no colonists bringing enslaved populations.

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>>18950297
>come to occult thread
>interested in occult discussion
>want to learn about magic, myself, the universe, spirituality, everything, rituals, etc.
>interested in joining occult group
>ask about what to expect or which books to read
>basically get told I'm disingenuous, greedy, useless, egotistical, a failure, etc.
>just because - "they don't just let anyone in" or "it's tough and rough"
>people stop replying to my posts
>tfw I'm not even an initiate

>>18950749
I'm not the one who insisted on talking about the Minerval interrogation when the script is in the library.

>>18950749
You wanted to know what would happen and you got your answer. I wouldn't hire you with responses like that for the same reasons. Easy to manipulate for sure, but able to improve and with enough self awareness not to make me look bad, not so much.

>>18950745
Africa has more than one distinct language.

Rennaissance Basque has strict toponymy.


If you want to show some combination there, you have to pick a year, or at least a decade.

>older than the colonial contact, there were no colonists bringing enslaved populations.

That is untrue.

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So I found an ash tree.

It's common knowledge that adders and vipers dread the sight of an ashen wand, and its wood and leaves are prescribed as remedies for all manner of venomous bites and stings, but what other uses are there for the ash?

>>18950797
>Africa has more than one distinct language.
I never implied otherwise.

>Rennaissance Basque has strict toponymy.
I never implied otherwise.

>If you want to show some combination there, you have to pick a year, or at least a decade.
Catholic Portuguese were often sent to Brazil on accusations of witchcraft and heresy, starting ca. 1600, and continuing with records in de Souza, de Mello, et al., through the 18th C., with the Basque witch trials starting in 1604 through 1614, meaning that I wouldn't think it's controversial that some Portuguese Cyprian users alongside Basque Saint practices (which look like Cyprianic operations) were present in Brazil, particularly given the further substantiating work of Jake Stratton Kent, Frisvold, and like anybody contributing to the At the Crossroads anthology, outside of de Souza and de Mello's compilation of the source records.

>>18950831
I mean de Mello explicitly states that the curandeiros were often African, if not pardo or mestizo, and that the African and pardo populations had already integrated with Tupian groups in the century between 16 and 1700.

See "The Devil in the Land of the Holy Cross".

I didn't realize this line of thought was so questionable; all I did was posit that maybe an African diaspora group latched onto a term that neighboring tribes already had in use.

>>18950797
Also please tell me which populations were bringing in African slave labor before, like 1529, and I'll hand you your PhD for rewriting the entirety of the history of colonial Brazil.

>>18950831
>I never implied otherwise.

No, you generalized with the term 'Africans', and then over 2-3 centuries of Basque.

>Catholic Portuguese were often sent to Brazil on accusations of witchcraft and heresy,

That means those people spoke hebrew after the reconquista.

>through the 18th C., with the Basque witch trials starting in 1604 through 1614,

The witch trials are concurrent with the expulsions of sephardic jews. It is technically the same inquisition.

>Portuguese Cyprian users

Who says those people exist, and that they would not have been more common in Gibraltar?

>Basque Saint practices (which look like Cyprianic operations)

Andalusian doctors are a better explanation.


>Jake Stratton Kent, Frisvold, and like anybody contributing to the At the Crossroads anthology, outside of de Souza and de Mello's compilation of the source records.

All of the last names in your citation imply some bias.

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>>18950188
>that image
Fucking saved.
>>18950327
>Why the hell are you even here?
Shit, why are any of us here?

I mean, should one recount the sequence of events that leads one to come to a certain point in one's life, or should one simply express it as a personal decision to be in a certain place at a certain time?

The latter would, of course, be bullshit, given that our lives aren't really our own. Our own thoughts are influenced by our experiences. The things that happen to us, largely due to the actions of others, ultimately culminate in an expectation that if we do a certain thing, there's a chance that something specific may happen - a desired or undesired result. And we decide accordingly whether to act, hoping it's for the better.

But maybe the inquiry is more simple than that. After all, if I weren't to simply contemplate my navel over this question, I'd probably respond curiosity. Perhaps even a greedy little need for more and more knowledge. Fuck, I've got four and a half gigs so far of books in my Occult folder. I still don't know how many are duplicates, I need to sort through them better. Probably not as impressive as what most of you have, but it's a daunting collection. All the same, dammit, I want to read through them. I want to understand what brings people to think a certain way, and I want to know what I can learn about the greater scheme of things. Maybe I want to be a part of it all. I mean, don't we all, really?

Then again, I guess we all are, in a way.

So I guess for a TL;DR, one could say that "I am here because I came here."

But maybe that's all too philosophical for the pedants in these groups. I happen to like being on the outskirts anyway. Organizations make me uncomfortable. Hell, organization itself makes me uncomfortable. Let the river run where it wants, it's none of your fucking business channeling it off course for your self-serving irrigation horseshit.

>>18950868
I have no idea how any of that relates to the adoption of the term "Quim" from Amerind populations by African populations.

>you generalized with the term 'Africans
Probably because there were cultures from Yoruba to Bantu being imported.

>Who says those people exist
Scarre, Geoffrey; Callow, John (2001).Witchcraft and Magic in Sixteenth and Seventeenth-Century Europe(second ed.). Basingstoke: Palgrave

Long, Hellen Morrow. (2001) Spiritual Merchants: Religion Magic and Commerce. University of Tennessee Press.

Hardwick, Paul. Kennedy, David (2010). The Survival of Myth: Innovation, Singularity and Alterity. Cambridge Scholars Publishing

>>18950865
Why do you think that international shipping did not run on slave labor until the modern era?

It still does, in some parts of the world.

>I'll hand you your PhD for rewriting the entirety of the history of colonial Brazil.

From the wikipedia article on the Meadows of Gold:

"A first version of the book was allegedly completed in the year 947 AD but the author spent most of his life adding and editing the work as well."- Stone, Caroline (March–April 2005). "The Model of the Historians". Saudi Aramco World. 56 (2).


The trick is to grok that Abbasid, Ottoman, and Sokoto contacts with the new world mostly landed in South America or the Caribbean.
I am prepared to accept my PhD for this work.

>>18950882
>Why do you think that international shipping did not run on slave labor until the modern era?
I don't, I simply see no evidence of plantation slave labor in Brazil until after 1529.

>From the wikipedia article on the Meadows of Gold:
ctrl+f "brazil"
Zero hits.

>>18950879
>I have no idea how any of that relates to the adoption of the term "Quim" from Amerind populations by African populations.

I gave you the answer in the first place.

>Probably because there were cultures from Yoruba to Bantu being imported.

That sounds like you want to mention Swahili during and around the time of Al-Andalus.

The 'traveling corpus' of Arabic in Swahili is a holdover from that point in time.

>Scarre, Geoffrey; Callow, John (2001).Witchcraft and Magic in Sixteenth and Seventeenth-Century Europe(second ed.). Basingstoke: Palgrave

Long, Hellen Morrow. (2001) Spiritual Merchants: Religion Magic and Commerce. University of Tennessee Press.

Hardwick, Paul. Kennedy, David (2010). The Survival of Myth: Innovation, Singularity and Alterity. Cambridge Scholars Publishing

Can you pull any quotes?

Otherwise, you sound like you are ignoring Avenzoar.

>>18950897
Why does it even matter, you detest me and anthropology in general.

We're gonna argue in circles and nobody's gonna be convinced of anything. We've done this too many times.

>>18950892
>I don't, I simply see no evidence of plantation slave labor in Brazil until after 1529.


No one builds plantations, but you need slaves to run trans-oceanic boats until about 1800.

>ctrl+f "brazil"
>Zero hits.

To start with, no one spelled it that way at the time.

Secondly, that name was not used in the time frame I have referenced.

Thirdly, if you want to use a search function instead of reading, then maybe you should do less work by accepting that I was trying to give you a helpful hint in the first place, rather then not reading.

>>18950913
I tried to help you.

Andalusian Arabic is similar to Egyptian.

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>>18950920
Yes, you're always right and I'm always wrong. My sources are always biased because they contain elements you don't like, as opposed to the pure unideological scholarship of Eliade and Evola.

Happy now?

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>>18950925
K.
I have no fucking clue what Egypt has to do with any of this, but ok.

>>18950750
Alrighty - I'm reading through "Study0", "The Significance of the Ceremony of the Minerval", and the "Man of Earth Degrees" folder.

I appreciate your input - any other suggestions other than these and the references they make?

>>18950754
Forgive me. I did not know the complexities (hence, I asked) of the question. I'm going to read through the books now.

Seems a little backwards to me - to ask me questions to that which you know I don't know the answers to.

>>18950931
Why did you want to skip 800 years of anatomy and physiology?

>My sources are always biased because they contain elements you don't like

They are biased because they are not specific to the subject matter, and the authors do not appear to be original sources. If you want to cite a secondary source, then you should use a quote.

>>18950936
That is where 'kem' usually meant black.

It has a dual meaning on the Iberian peninsula.

>>18950951
What are you are arguing?
Whats your theory that you are defending?
Stop defending and just tell us your damn theory.
Otherwise, you just look like a raving crazy man for no good reason.

Wow, this thread got angry and confusing.

>>18950963
If I had to guess it's that "Quim" is an Iberian term applied to Afro populations that were in Brazil before Iberian colonial contact rather than a term lifted from the Tupiniquim.

>>18950868
For the record, when someone has the prefix 'de' in their surname, it means that they were an immigrant granted some title of nobility after the Napoleonic wars. They are going to be biased against biscayan or tyrrhenian semitism, because that history is a valid legal claim against their land grant. Saxons are doing the same thing, but to protect WW2 land grants.

>>18950963
>>18950980
You could have just accepted the term 'Andalusian', upthread.

>>18950980
Oh, cause I thought he was trying to say Quimbanda comes from Egypt, Iberian, and Brazilian mix instead of West African, Iberian, Brazilian.

I think Tobias needs to actually tell us what his theoryis so we can then tell him if we agree or disagree with him.

>>18950998
>Egypt, Iberian, and Brazilian mix instead of West African, Iberian, Brazilian.

My point is that you should only say 'Andalusian', if you want to posit a combination of those groups during this time period.

>>18950998
Apparently it's that having having the wrong name disqualifies you from discourse on the topic, whether or not you actually have a personal vested interest a centuries old land grant arrangements.

But really I can hardly tell anymore.

>>18951006
But the Basque and Portuguese heretics that de Mello fingers from the colonial manuscripts themselves don't count I guess for some reason.

>>18951007
>Apparently it's that having having the wrong name disqualifies you from discourse on the topic,

It shows bias, so a reference to a secondary source in abstract can be assailed.

We can counter assertions about the Salem Witch Trials by the same token.

whether or not you actually have a personal vested interest a centuries old land grant arrangements.

That is really the only way that archaeology pays off on a month-to-month basis.

>But really I can hardly tell anymore.

Instead of combining 3-4 anachronisms and generalizations, you can use one specific, contemporaneous term.

>>18951022
>We can counter assertions about the Salem Witch Trials by the same token.
...fucking what?

>>18951019
Do you want to pull up a quote?

Are you saying that heretics during this time period were not previously syncretic during the Caliphate of al-Andalus?

>>18951029
Are you siding with the Puritans, and the Inquisition?

>>18951031
You are absolutely Andalusional.

You don't syncretize Allah with Yahweh.
They are the exact same fucking thing.

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>>18951036
???
N-no?

>Are you saying that heretics during this time period were not previously syncretic during the Caliphate of al-Andalus?
Not in the slightest.
I'm saying those with Cyprianic tendencies were there. Colonial records indicate massive consternation at Moorish and Jewish dancing at the time all of this was going down (ca 16 to 1700). But I'm not interested in Moorish/Jewish syncretism, I'm interested in Amerind and Iberian grimoire syncretism.

I mean if you want me to write a paper on the Jewish and Moorish influence in Brazil, hey, wonderful, but it's gonna have to wait until I turn in my one on Amerind and grimoire syncretism.

What fucking crackpipe are you hitting and where can I get your drugs?

>>18951042

>You don't syncretize Allah with Yahweh.
They are the exact same fucking thing.

They are not the same in reference to the word 'quim'. Maybe, if you believe that 'Yahweh' should instead be pronounced like 'Jah'.

I do, and can show you an interesting website from Gibraltar.

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>>18951067
Okay, Tobias.
I'll humor your Moorish Overlord North African Supremacy.
Where's your link?

>>18951067
>They are not the same in reference to the word 'quim'.
Care to show me the dictionary you're using because I'm not pulling up anything intelligible in Arabic, Basque, Hebrew, Spanish, etc.

The only thing that's pulling a sensible reference is Tupian.

>>18951052
>N-no?

So, when people persecute a religious minority for things like 'witchcraft'; then gain a whole lot of land; we can assume those people have some sort of bias, or at least a profit motive.

>Not in the slightest.

Then, you should use the word 'Andalusian'; because it would be incorrect to use a triple hyphen otherwise.

>I'm saying those with Cyprianic tendencies were there.

Why does that adjective have relevance here?

Can you back it up with a quote?

>Colonial records indicate massive consternation at Moorish and Jewish dancing at the time all of this was going down (ca 16 to 1700).

So, you understand that the Inquisitions at this time were directed at Andalusians, and the crime accused was 'witchcraft'.

>But I'm not interested in Moorish/Jewish syncretism, I'm interested in Amerind and Iberian grimoire syncretism.

The two traditions are not separable at the time you mention. There is not a distinct Christian medical tradition; so they call the translated medical books 'grimoires', because dissection is anathema.

>I mean if you want me to write a paper on the Jewish and Moorish influence in Brazil, hey, wonderful, but it's gonna have to wait until I turn in my one on Amerind and grimoire syncretism.

You are just using 'Grimoire' and 'Cyprianic' as euphemisms for 'Avenzoar' and 'Andalusian'.

That does not sound like you have a paper, because your linguistic argument is unjustified.

>What fucking crackpipe are you hitting and where can I get your drugs?

I do not use any drugs.