lucid dreaming

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>>18690432

>>18688774 here

before i get into this, i want to reiterate that i was gifted/cursed with this "ability"; there was no "try", only "is". as such my experiences and more importantly perspective and understanding seem to drift a bit from most of what ive read out of others. obviously i can't really say how "good" or "bad" this may be; i suspect i may be at a disadvantage because i lack most of the training and possible safeguards that someone who did this "properly" would accumulate, but on the flip side it would seem that i don't really have the durability/longevity concerns and am much more acquainted with myself simply because i have no choice, for me there is no off switch. the scary thing is im not sure if i would even take one if given at this point, because the dreams can be illuminating and informative, and i seem to have a penchant for challenges and have almost fetishised the suffering. call it stockholm syndrome for simplicities sake. and of course its not all "bad", and furthermore to a large degree it is what you make it.

"control" is an idea.. a very layered one, and also an illusion. you will never have full control over every detail, and the gaps will have to be filled in somehow, from somewhere. this is where your sub/unconscious comes into play. this is basic and obvious, but i think the key here is that if you are lucid, you have a degree of understanding in real-time/the moment that doesn't exist if you are not lucid, and with this comes a sort of responsibility. you KNOW what you are seeing is ALL YOU in one form or another, but since only part of it is conscious, you are in a way playing both observer and participant, never fully one or the other.

by now you should be beginning to see the potential problems if you haven't already. shit that you have buried or tried to (usually for good reason) WILL show up eventually. your fears, your losses, your regrets, your guilt, all of it will manifest in some form or another.. (1/?)

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>>18694746
.. usually in one of most unnerving/devastating mosaics or composites you could(n't) possibly even imagine. on top of this, things can (and probably will) get meta, in a hurry. no surprise since your dreams are informed by your life and who you are, but now increasingly your life can become indirectly influenced by your dreams. think of it as a very abstract and asymmetrical feedback loop. i suspect this might be where some people start to tap out and quit and some begin struggling as the lines between reality and ""fantasy"" blur, but i have not had that problem. yet. for reasons that are maybe personal/specific that im not sure if i should get into, since im not sure what the lesser/greater evil here is.

speaking of lesser/greater evils, and my own personal experiences.. well. lets see. this part ill just go full stream of conscious. the other anon mentioned tragedies/traumatic events and not being able to stop them; theres definitely a lot of that. lots of lose/lose situations. lots of betrayal. never ending guilt. the guilt is usually even in play in dreams that are otherwise "good", as if i know im unworthy on some level. i run into characters that KNOW they ARE characters CONSTANTLY, coming in all manner of forms and embodying different characteristics; this is one of the few things that shit movie inception actually got right, for me anyway.

at this point ive almost entirely stopped trying to actively control things in the dreamscape. i just go with whatever feels right in the moment, and let things happen. this in a way is its own type of irony and torture because in reality ive lost a lot of that control, partially by my own doing and poor decisions, and while i fight to regain that, where i already have a lot of it, i choose to forfeit it. almost as if i know or feel on some level that this is wrong, and i shouldn't be entitled to "ruin" the dream, so i mostly just watch and play my part.

so yea, thats pretty much where im at. AMA. (2/2)

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>>18694737
>>18694746
>>18694839

How often do you lucid dream OP? You're making it sound like it's every night.

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>>18694889
it basically is. if i dream, its lucid. and i get there pretty fast.

the only thing that seems to cancel out or pave over my dreams are opiates or benzos, and even then its not a sure thing.

So I lucid dream occasionally, and choose to venture forth beyond the limitations my dream had allowed me. I can fly, jump in the air and seamlessly become part of the wind and soar across vast expanses as my mind fights to keep up with my speed.

Every time, however, I come to a barrier I cannot cross. Sometimes it is a literal fence, other times it is an invisible wall I cannot penetrate. Now I ask you, have others experienced the same?

Have you "broken" these barriers, and what is behind them? More dreams, or do you simply wake up as I have upon finding impassible features?

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>>18694839
>>18694746
Hey, OP of the last thread here. wow, that's a lot to take in.

I think I keep saying something along these lines, but it doesn't feel like I have a whole lot bottled up. However, that could be because I don't lucid dream naturally and therefore am not forced to face these things like you.

Even if that's the case though, I see it as a win-win. I view this whole thing as both a way to exercise my demons (literally, if what the trip says is true), as well as an exercise in imagination and creativity. The part where I face myself and the parts of me that are locked away, Is something that I hadn't really considered before the last thread, but when I think about it, jumping right into that sounds like something I would do anyway.

Of course, I don't expect to control every detail. What would be the point? There are only a few things I care about controlling, and they seem to be fairly easily accomplished, from what I've read.

So if I were to ask you a question or two, I guess I would ask:
Do you feel like the gift/curse has improved your mental state, or do you think you would have been mentally better off without it?
Do you feel like losing touch with reality is a danger for YOU at this point?
Are you an artistic person or a romantic in any way?

And seriously, thank you to you and everyone in the last thread for answering all my questions. You've all been a great help.

Side note: As far as inception goes, based on the way the actual lucid dreamers talk about this stuff, the film seems incredibly unimaginative in comparison to the actual experience.

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>>18694967
I've only had two lucid dream (that I can remember).

During the most recent I tried to venture beyond the limitations of my (lucid) dream. When I left the confines of my dream my surrounding become more hazy and purple-orange.. kind of like the sky during a particularly vibrant dusk. While in this purple-orange realm I realized I wanted to do ridiculous magical shit. Tried flying, but couldn't. Tried shooting light beams out of my hands, but couldn't. Tried to creat a fireball, and was finally able to ignite a very small fire in one of my hands.. then I woke up.

I think the trick is that if you haven't been practicing visualization, you can't really transport yourself or go beyond the limits of your dream. Next time I lucid dream I plan to just go along with whatever the dram is... it seems like even though you're "lucid" you don't have complete control over what's going on. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this op..>>18694737

pic totally unrelated

Archive is http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/18683864/#18683864
Will chime in latrt

>>18695028
I don't necessarily know if I understand the "visualisation" as you mention, per se, as I do have certain general limitations in my dreams. When I am not lucid dreaming, but the dream is merely a motion picture I have little to no control and play along a script unknown. If I can gain awareness without waking up, flying is not difficult nor is creating vivid things. Lately however my dreams have been very detailed as though my subconscious has become obsessed with confusing my dreams as real events. In fact, I can remember so many dreams from my past that in some way, those dreams *are* part of my memories as things I have witnessed and experienced. Although, I cannot use the same "impulse" to fly in reality as I can a dream, I am become more paranoid that our reality is in itself a dream with more inaccessibility. Or I am simply losing my mind.

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>>18694967
oddly enough i never really feel compelled to test the physical barriers or limitations, so i can't even give you much of anything on that one. sorry.

>>18694980
thanks and no problem. you seem to be going into this with a solid approach, so as long as you don't underestimate certain things and are up to the task of integrating the experiences, you'll be able to avoid the psych ward or an early trip to the afterlife. id still suggest trying to establish ways to shut it off or abort dreams if you haven't already. luckily enough i can abort, although im compelled not to.

the first question is impossible for me to answer.. i would say its framed in a way that is too 2 dimensional and reductive, and also i lack a lot of firsthand reference points. i would say it has deepened certain understandings, but at the same time there is truth to the saying that ignorance is bliss.

as for the second question, no. i know the differences, immediately and inherently, and also (and maybe because of this) i don't suffer from false awakenings.

im an aspiring filmmaker, so i guess you could say im artistic and am very much a romantic. ;l

and yes, inception is probably the least imaginative movie about dreams i could possibly imagine (lol). making it exposition dependent and using it as a vehicle in the service of what is in essence a heist movie is insulting, and so are the arbitrary "rules". there is also absolutely no energy for me unless watanabe or cotillard are on the screen, and the third act is both anticlimactic and visually even more boring than the first two. i would have much rather watched the story of how leo and cotillard got together and their world building/adventures, and her death as the ending would pack much more of an emotional punch than what we got. paprika is worlds better than what we got.

nolan is too literal though so its not surprising, i would go so far as to say the prestige is his only truly great movie and he knows it. oh well.

>>18695064
Thanks for answering. I'm an artist too, so to know I may have a similar experience is nice, especially in regards to how I face my fears.

It's also good to hear you can differentiate reality form dream easily. That's one of my main concerns in the long run. You might even call it a fear, though I don't know how that would manifest. Maybe as false awakenings, but now that I've heard reassuring words, maybe not? Idk, kind of a catch-22.

As for your answer to the first question, I think you gave a really good answer. Particularly the part about ignorance being bliss. It was more helpful than you might think.

Anyway, it's very late where I am, so I'm off to bed to try again. I'll check in here tomorrow.

>>18695064
And I'll check paprika out. I've heard it's good :)

I posted my story in the spooky dreams thread mostly because I didn't see this one but
>>18695095
>>18695157
Seriously why can't I lucid dream? Whenever I get lucid the shadowy thing fucks me up.

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>>18695155
>>18695170
ay, no problem. ill be around. id dare to offer that people who are artists/creatives may have better odds at dealing with lucid dreams because we are generally already more in tune with our emotions, fears, demons, etc.

and yea, paprika is a trip. a real fucking mess especially towards the end, and i mean that in the best possible way.

>>18695028
visualization is incredibly useful and underrated imo in all areas of life. if you practice more and make it more instinctive and automatic, you will probably get more results.

>>18695058
you need to be careful. fwiw (and this ties back to one of the other questions) after some more thought my grip on reality might not be as firm as i thought.. i dont subscribe to any particular belief about any of the bigger questions (for the most part), but i do give credence to the idea that we might be in a simulation, so... ehh. the point is you have to be able to differentiate the levels and play ball, or things could easily go downhill in a hurry.

>>18695173
sounds like you might be too anxious and trying to make adjustments too quickly upon realization and destabilizing. i cant even get away with going for too much too fast without losing it, and for me its the default state. you are basically right there though, just try to relax and go with it without going crazy next time you become lucid.

>>18695238
The sudden lucidity did cause my flying couch to crash so you might be right.

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>>18695322
nice.

yea that type of shit probably wont fly, horrible pun intended

>>18695345
No I mean the dream is that it was flying, then when I hit lucidity I crashed, like my conscious turned gravity on subconsciously, if that makes sense.

>>18694746
You're not a special snowflake, many of us lucid dream every night

>>18694737
Fellow dreamer here, before I take you seriously, as nothing you have said so far has convinced me.

What's the worst scenario you have experienced whilst dreaming lucid or not?

And you started the thread so don't try and dodge the question by saying you don't have to prove anything to me.

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>>18695357
ah. makes sense. "rules" activated lol.

>>18695421
never said or meant to imply that i was. im sorry for trying to be helpful and fueling some discussion lad.

>>18695440
>>18695435

Just answer this, I want to see if you're worth talking to

>>18695435
>>18695440
Response?

>>18695440
Right how do I deactivate the rules? Or at least keep them from activating?
I know they aren't needed since a few times I've gone lucid before waking up while dreaming I was drowning and I could breathe underwater since I realized I was dreaming.

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>>18695435>>18695441
>>18695460

nothing in that post convinces me of anything really either and the truth of the matter is i really don't have to prove shit to you, and preempting the matter doesn't change that.

the "worst scenario"? that's a horribly ineffectual question if you are trying to get me to "prove" something, and if you were for real and/or not a brainlet you would know why. for the sake of your future roleplaying arsenal though, im not sure if there is a single worst anything, and i wouldn't go by scenario anyway since the devil is more in the details, and either way without actually knowing me enough to contextualize the answers, most of them would ring hollow to you.

the two most obvious ones i can give you that dont really require much in the way of context or explanation would probably be bludgeoning my own father to death because he was torturing my mother and being murdered/replaced by my double. the more disturbing part of the latter was it occuring before i even saw pic related.

is that good enough for you? got anything useful or interesting you'd like to share? my bad for being preoccupied too, impatient little fuck

>>18695483
Enjoy the roleplay. Goodnight

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>>18695478
those are questions that im afraid im ill-equipped to answer, likely i would guess because i lack certain types of training and refinement or much of an interest in manipulating those types of rules. my mind seems to be more preoccupied with themes, narrative, symbolism/metaphors, etc. so i dont think i can help you much beyond again recommending staying calm and avoiding any drastic shifts in your mind upon realization.

im sorry. practice makes perfect maybe?

>>18695504
Maybe, thing is I think the sudden shift into lucidity fucks with me and is drastic enough to tilt me.
Well if symbolism is your thing what's your take on the shadow thing? I've taken to nicknaming it Nyarlathotep when discussing it with friend D's since we're Lovecraft fans and it doesn't seem to be limited to lucid dreaming and doesn't always show up when I'm lucid. Though there always seems to be some kind of darkness whenever I lose control of the dream. Like with the drowning one it ended up coming from the water beneath me.

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>>18695513
yea i would be agreeable to the first part, from what ive read and heard (which admittedly isnt that much) a lot of people have that problem.

as for the shadow.. well.. i really really dont like attempting to do dream analysis on other people, strikes me as dangerous and distasteful especially without a wealth of info to go by, but the little that ill offer (which is kinda basic desu) is that its probably a representation of some sort of fear, and im beginning to suspect that you are maybe a bit of a control freak and those two things could be tied together.

im not sure if naming it is a good idea either.

doing things that are counterintuitive seemed to be a way for me to break certain patterns and defuse potential problems, but often enough it would just lead to others. now i just mostly watch and go with it. im not saying to try and embrace the fuckin thing or anything but in the grand scheme of things, YOU are the one who is generating it, and you have the power to play as you see fit.

anyway im gonna call it a night/morning. sweet dreams anons

>>18694839
TL;DR: Messing around in lucid dreaming is fun, but as with all things, just go with the flow.
Who knows maybe you're fucking over your subsconscious by fucking over an important dream, I think it's common knowledge that 'dreams' are a rehashing system, who knows if we were even built to remember our own dreams, inb4 westworld.
Thing is, the only point where it's actually doing any good with lucid dreaming is if you're entirely in control, and I mean Einstein/Beethoven-tier.
What is there in dreams that makes you want to be lucid that badly, your real life sucks? You want a way out of reality? Kill yourself or do drugs.
Also I second 'going' with the flow regardless if you're supposed to know if you're dreaming or not.
There might be entities that have invited you over to their dream-scape, or you invited them over to yours. Why would you want to ruin that by being someone you're not?
Maybe your subconscious is trying to teach you a lesson through symbolism, maybe it's struggling, trying to reach out to you.
All I know is, when I was so focused on wanting 'dream-experiences', I had ONE profound experience of which I had 0 control, and several nightmare/night terror like, which would have me waking sweating with my heart beating out of my fucking chest.
Also OP, please don't develop this 'fetish', you're supposed to move on, I thought the nightmares were really cool back then as those felt exactly as real as reality, but I always ended up fighting them in the end, who the fuck likes being tortured? And since then I've been starting to do things instinctively in my dreams, being the character that I want to be, you know, like you would act in real life, not the character I'm scared of being/the character I 'am', but the character I'm becoming.
And nowadays I just have a sequence of dreams that help me develop my character, see what different aspects of 'reality' would do to 'the real me'.
I'm basically me in those dreams, but I have a backstory.

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Lucid Dreaming Section from Hekate Station Journal #2 ( pages 35 - 44 )

http://hekatestation.net/files/Book_2.PDF

( PASSWORD: Venus )

page 35

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>>18695707
page 36

>>18695683
(Cont.)
Like I'm not from the same reality in those worlds, you don't ask anyone to tell you this, that would be fucking weird, going up to a friend in reality, and be like
>Dude what year is it, how was I like 2 years ago, WHATS MY FUCKING BACKSTORY
No, it slowly plays out, it's like I was already dreaming this dream but only got lucid through some eye-awakening experience like trauma, which also happened to me in real life, this trauma woke me up to the actual person that I am, my 'spirit' or whatever, not the person that I think I am or the person that people think I am, the person that I actually am.
This has helped me establish a connection to my spirit and all the lessons I've learned in other lives.
It's like drugs, if you fight them you're not really gonna experience anything but turbulence, dreams are definitely more forgiving than drugs, but the analogy works.
If you stop fighting and let the drugs show you their eye-opening power, let them be in control, they'll show you a whole new world you never knew existed. Since drugs/entheogens help your subconscious take over in real life, the analogy seems good to me.
The point is, go with the flow, you never know where it might take you.
I've had more spiritual epiphanies from dreams than I have from any other drug or real life experiences.
Once you get acquinted with your 'mind' you'll know what it really feels like to be 110% sure of something, not a slither of doubt. None. Zilch.
You're not even supposed to fully remember your dreams, but the parts that you might, atleast for me have a huge philosophical sumbolism/analogy for awake me, and I also remember a stint of my character/ego merging with my 'subconscious', which has made me able to split my own thoughts with that of my subconscious, it can control my inner voice from time to time, I've basically made it a tulpa by having this long-term relationship/friendship with it. It 'sets up' the dreams, and I play them out so it can 'get to know (me)'

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>>18695712
page 37

>>18695715
Please also notice I believe in higher entities and spirits and whatnot, so I use the term 'subconscious' so you can tie your own connotations, whether you believe in magick or not, that was kinda the whole point.

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>>18695717
page 38

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>>18695722
page 39

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>>18695728
page 40

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>>18695733
page 41

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>>18695738
page 42

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>>18695742
page 43

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>>18695747
page 44 -- END

>>18695173
>The 'shadows'
>POOPMYPANTS.JPEG
Seriously they're bad omens, maybe you should be focusing on 'studying' something in your dreams instead of just fucking around, they kinda show up like
>Ok dude, we get it, you've had your fun in 'our realm' now get the fuck out.
>Might be external demons, might be internal demons
>Who knows
All I know is when you meet 'them', oh boy are you in for a lesson, it's like when your dad just gives up on you as a personality and he has to punish you for your deeds, so you get spanked.
Anyways, jokes aside.
You should be grateful you met the shadow people, or the fact that you can even find/confront them.
Next time you're lucid, please for the love of God, do something PRODUCTIVE, I don't know, maybe you should go write down what the one thing in the world thing is, that you want more than anything else.
They basically gave me a 'free blowjob', since I've never had anything sexual and I gave that shit up, since wizard meme and whatnot, so yeah I got 'succd'.
They're basically manifesting my dreams at this point.
It's probably an analogy of consulting your fears, accepting them and 'befriending' them.
Eventho it's a bad analogy,
>What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Like, use all the bad experiences as a lesson and to further the development of your person.

As someone spiritual I can only analogize this, as I see it from a vastly different perspective, but I'm trying to not be 'biased' around my theology here, so the mundanes/fedora's can also pick up.

>>18695752
>Inb4 banned
If you're gonna spam us with some 'unrelated' shit we didn't ask for by some grand roleplaying conspiracy meme, atleast do us a fucking favor and compile that shit into one image instead of being a lazy, spamming jew, delibirately spamming it in multiple posts so that you'll get attention to your little roleplaying/treasure hunt community.

>>18695824
name/tripfag attention whore upset HIS thread isn't just about him