/vgcg/ - VGC General

>half of the top 8 on the left has togedemaru
What did they mean by this?

>>32179663
That Koko is enough of a shithead and the format is so restricted that it's the only remote answer.

ded

>>32181504
>B-But Tapus aren't centralizing! They are totally balanced! You don't have to worry about them while teambuilding! You are just a scrub!

>>32181512
>You don't have to worry about them while teambuilding
Literally nobody says that, stop shitposting

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So /vgcg/, is there any mon that has always been on your team since the begining of this format?

>>32183725
A shiny Golisopod
pls no bully

>>32183725
Ribombee, that fucker has been so good that sadly it has left me unable to teambuild without thinking about putting it there.
Also have a sweet spot for Nihilego, just like it so much and it's the fast special rock I always desired, don't counting Diancie due to being unable to use it in almost all formats.

>>32183725
>tfw I've used over 30 different mons
There's no constant one, but Magnezone, Lele, Arcanine and Kartana are tied for most used, appearing in 3/7 of my teams

Good night /vgcg/,
don't let the thread die pls

>>32184684
That depends on the porn spammers.

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Really looking forward to this one. The last (VGC) competition was a lot of fun, it's a shame I probably won't have enough time to do all 45 battles this time around.

>>32186938
Who's that fourth tapu?

>>32187440
ur mom
Is this challenge offering more megastones?

>>32187542
Why don't you look yourself?
https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/information/2264176e-fe49-4c1b-99c6-c970d74d8ae9

>>32187549
>https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/information/2264176e-fe49-4c1b-99c6-c970d74d8ae9
Because I'm facilitating discussion because these threads are dead as fuck and wasn't expecting a bump this soon

>watched Smash all weekend
>Cybertron actually won a tournament
Was it streamed? Top 8 sets worth watching?

>>32187569
It was streamed, and it was great. There was a really tense game two in the grand finals, or whatever it's called.
It was on the nuggetbridge twitch.

>>32179573
where's toxapex?

was he banned or something?`

>>32187592
In the chance that this isn't bait, no, Toxapex sucks

>>32187592
Weakness to Garchomp, Lele, and Koko. Fini prevents Toxic

>>32187549
Well with M-Scep and M-Ken out it'll finally mean something which can outspeed, take a hit and kill Koko will finally be available for the Doubles ladder.

>>32187592
Assuming you're new and actually don't know it's just awful in this format, can't take a hit or do anything. Also Elec, Psychic and Ground are arguably amongst the worst possible defensive weaknesses to have in this format along with Steel and Fire.

It doesn't even have any support moves either, which really just about sums up the whole Aloladex.

>>32188013
speaking of which

how do you think VGC18 will be? what would you like the most? everyone is just assuming that the current battlespot doubles format will become the official one, but that might not be the case. Off the top of my head, the possibilities could be
>nat dex with megas
>nat dex without megas (not likely)
>nat dex with megas alola-bred (which would take out all pre gen-7 legends unless they release a new game)
>alola dex with megas

the current doubles format looks nice but it's basically vgc15 feat. the tapus. I wonder if tpci will want to shake things up a little for once.

Not sure if anyone has noticed but Buzzwole at the moment is tearing up shit on the '17 ladder, a few people seem to be doing well with it.

>>32188129
It's likely just going to be Nat Dex w/ Megas and it's honestly the only format which works in this Gen short of a sudden mid-Gen re-balancing/new Pokemon shakeup with a new game.

>assuming that the current battlespot doubles format will become the official one, but that might not be the case
The only real 'gimmick' I could see happening would be to make it a Pentagon rule style Gen 7 bred only format. Which basically means almost every pre-Gen 7 legendary would be unavailable since there is no way to obtain them except from ORAS.

That pretty much takes out Heatran, Land-T and Zapdos who are currently the most relevant ones. Oh and still no move tutors.

I mean the real takeaway from this Gen is that the game in general is still in a severe lack of fast Ground types and special based Ground types.

Also basic team structure in the Doubles ladder still isn't really that different from VGC '17. You still basically need a strong Ground type, Steel type and Fire type if you want to get anywhere.

Fighting types are utterly unviable still even with M-Khan's return there is literally not a single ranked Fighting type in the whole ladder. If you haven't noticed yet what connects them all it's the exact same as '17. They're all ways of beating Koko/Lele and checking any Fire or Steel which stops your own Koko/Lele.

Ayy

Togedemaru better not become the new pachirisu

>>32188129
I really wouldn't be surprised if Megas were removed next year too.
To me, the fact that there are no new megas in Gen 7, and they're only available post-game, implies that Game Freak basically consider them to be Gen 6's gimmick and only make them obtainable because they put so much effort into them last gen.

But then I guess they wouldn't allow them in Flat Rules/Ranked Battle Spot either. Maybe I just miss VGC 2012.

>>32189402
Pachirisu was pretty much only used by Sejun. It didn't see any use before then, and only low-ladder idiots who didn't understand why it did well used it after then.

Togedemaru fits into most teams a lot easier, since it has more options, and it has top cut a few tournaments so it's not like it would come completely out of nowhere.

>>32189402
GF tried really hard to make a new pachirisu but they made it too viable, now it has lost all the meme potential.

>>32188129
I personally think it will be nat dex +megas+alola bred, but they're going to make the legends available in some form most likely

>>32181512
oh no, a random screenshot of a battle where both tapus happened to be out at the same time! truly this is irrefutable proof that the tapus are KILLING VGC FOREVER

>>32190599
National dex + megas while everything has to have the plus sign would be really fun, now that I think about it. I really really hope this is the next format.

>>32191393
>tpci actually removing genies once and for all
let's not delude ourselves

>>32191454
vgc 2010 didn't have genies actually

>>32191370
>falseflagging

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>>32191370
You say that and yet when posting pic related you people who defend the Tapus like if they were your mom start to screech autistically because the genies are cancer but the Tapus magically are not despite them also being on every single team.

Why the hypocrisy and double-standards?

>>32192138
You keep saying this every thread, but I have yet to see evidence on your claims. I see people hating on genies, but never see those exact same people praising the tapus.

>>32192138
i dont really hate the genies that much, i think '15 was a dandy format but the thing about genies that a lot of people dont like is that they introduced a ridiculous amount of rng to the match with their moves, spreading prankster paralysis and rock slide flinches out the ass. meanwhile, the tapus don't put a giganitc burden on teambuilding, don't "invalidate" anything and don't add a particularly troubling element of RNG to the table -- in fact they reduce it by temporarily preventing sleep

Ready for your daily dose of memes?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-554043456

>>32193721
Well, it clearly worked. Also, when memes are on the high-ladder you really cannot call them memes because that means the meme works.

>>32192138
the genies were not the problem. ParaSwag and Flinches were, the genies just got bad rep because of it.

>>32193782
I found it cool, but it really is just a BO1 gimmick.

>>32193721
I've seen a bunch of Nature Power Whimsicotts. Or is there some other gimmick I'm not seeing?

>>32194953
Snatch.
That battle didn't show off the real gimmick of that team anyways.
Lead whimsicott/arcanine
Tailwind/protect
Or just beat up arcanine, justified activates
+3 arcanine attempts sweep

>>32194962
>Tailwind/Beat Up Whimsicott
Nigga that "gimmick" is almost as old as VGC itself

>>32195014
Nigga, that doesn't make it bad nowadays,

>>32195016
Doesn't mean it's not a gimmick either, it's just usually done with terrakion.

Drifblim is now #14 in season 3 usage stats, such an insane surge in popularity for a Pokemon no one used a month or two ago

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reminder that this is where the format was this time last year

>>32195168
It helped that in middle of season 2 the Pokemon Bank was released which gave Drifblim access to Tailwind, which allowed it to shine in this format.

>>32191858
gee I wonder why

>>32195168
the shoma effect

>>32195168
I'm glad it's not the retarded Minimize set. Drifblim was kind of stained because of it.

Hi, I'm a shiny hunter and a friend who is also shiny hunter want to try playing VGC but he don't want to do reproduction, do you know how to generate legit pokemon for VGC ? thank you

>>32196865
I don't understand. Saying "breeding" makes me think your friend wants to breed mons, but then saying "generate" makes me think your friend wants to use PkHex. Which is it?

>>32196986
he wants to use PkHex but i can't advise him because i don't know how it works ( sorry for my english btw)

>>32197012
you may wanna take a look at /ekx/ if it's still around, search in the catalog

>>32197116
ok thank you, I'll look at it

http://trainertower.com/survivalcalc/

>The SurvivalCalc is a tool that finds the best EV spread for a Pokémon to survive attacks based on goals. There are two major functions: finding the EV spread that survives an attack or combination of attacks with the minimum amount of EVs necessary, and finding the EV spread that best optimizes overall bulk, given a certain number of EVs.

>>32194197
Kill yourself Smogonigger

>>32188309

Why is a Fire Steel Ground core so important now? Usually its been Fire Water Grass or Dragon Steel Fairy.

>>32199210
>kartana fits in every core
So good

>>32200187
Most of the time the grass type can take a hit, though. Not much to choose from to effectively deal with that typing either.

You know what really matches? Ferrothorn.

Is spore basically useless in this meta because of koko/fini or does it still have some usefulness?
I know its a shitmon but I'm dead set on using shiinotic in the april competition which is basically vgc rules.

>>32201303
If you look at the regular doubles ladder you'll see that Amoonguss isn't even in the top 30, which is a sure sign of Spore being fucking dead. You could probably still manage to get some decent use out of it just by using Lele or whatever, but it's going to be a struggle.

>>32199210
>Fire
Gotta resist those fairies and kill those steels that resist the fairies

>Ground
Gotta kill those steels that cockblock my fairies and those fire types too.

>Steel
Gotta resist those fairies and kill them too.

Also, pretty lacking in choices because of the aloladex only. You are hard-pressed to see something outsite Arcanine, Garchomp and Celesteela/Kartana filling those spaces.

All the people who say regionaldex formats are better because "there is more variety" are retarded. It's the same shit as with every natdex format, the only difference is that the ones at the peak are different, but it's alright when they do it because they are not legendary or mega boogeymans who magically ruin variety every year but it's alright when pseudos and tapus do it.

>>32201303
>>32201335
That's your fault for being shitty teambuilders. The Tapus don't do anything to prevent you from using spore that your fault for not packing 10 counters to them and not accounting on the meta god you tapu whiners never stop when will it get through your head that they are nowhere as good or centralizing? Fuck off already to your genie circlejerks.

>>32201454
xD

>>32201592
>xD

>>32201441
Amusingly even with NatDex the choice of Ground types is still piss poor far as choices go. Beyond Land-T a legendary if it suddenly became unavailable due to local breeding rules.

We have like NO fast special based Ground types in the whole fucking game. By fast I define that as at least being above 100 base speed which has always been the general benchmark. The next 'fastest' special Ground type after Land-I is Nidoking with it's 70ish defenses and 85 speed. After that it's Nidoqueen, fucking Palossand then M-Camerupt, that is how dire the choice is.

On the physical side of things your choices are limited to purely Garchomp, Kanto Dugtrio and Excadrill.

>All the people who say regionaldex formats are better because "there is more variety" are retarded
KalosDex was an exception I think because it was absurdly huge, it was like 450 entries I think? Not including Mega's who were spread evenly between the types so there was at least one for each typing.

More like Aloladex is stupid because the NatDex continues to grow with each Gen and for some reason they rolled back the dex to not even 300 entries? It also has a lot of redundancies with some types with no representation and others with too much.

>>32201303
If you want to run Spore you'll have to run Lele or Bulu, no exceptions at all. Good luck with that x6 or x8 Poison weakness.

>>32199210
Dragon is basically dead as a typing this Gen.

Like even Garchomp the most used Dragon type virtually never even runs a Dragon STAB anymore. They are almost exclusively used only for Z-EQ, about the only reason it's still used is because it's the only fast Ground type that doesn't die to a stiff breeze from most things and it can at least move before Lele or Fini and hit with a Poison Jab or STAB EQ for some damage.

The original purpose of the Dragon typing in the mystical defensive core was to deal with FWG but it's hard to do that when near every team has a strong Fairy in some form.

>>32201252
>>32200187
At the same time both Kartana and Ferrothorn are falling out of favour on the Doubles ladder due to the return of CHALK. They just have absolutely zero answers to it.

>>32203200
>Mamoswine
>Rhydon/Rhyperior
>Gastrodon
>Swampert

You forgot these lad.

>Like even Garchomp the most used Dragon type virtually never even runs a Dragon STAB anymore. They are almost exclusively used only for Z-EQ, about the only reason it's still used is because it's the only fast Ground type that doesn't die to a stiff breeze from most things and it can at least move before Lele or Fini and hit with a Poison Jab or STAB EQ for some damage.
I find amusing how after all these years Garchomp finally found himself a niche over Landorus-T because he can outspeed all the Tapus but Koko and even if they run Scarf so can he and still outspeed them. Landorus-T can't afford that luxury.

All the Tapus did was make him stronger. How can he be so perfect?

Still, you are right that Dragon is completely kill. Just look at Mence this year. Z-Draco Meteor would be absolutely insane in previous years. Now? It's just sad. Tapus are so ever present that there's simply no point on even trying.

I feel bad for Hydreigon next year.

>but it's hard to do that when near every team has a strong Fairy in some form.
You should stop beating around the bush and just say Tapu instead of Fairy.

>>32203283
>You should stop beating around the bush and just say Tapu instead of Fairy.
Well yes but I think it's obvious without saying.

>You forgot these lad.
I really didn't, I was still talking about fast options and honestly physical Gastrodon is kind of a sad sight. All it does is further remind you how much GF hate special Ground types.

The other thing is Kartana alone renders most Ground types pretty ineffective if they're not neutral with considerable defenses (Garchomp) or straight up faster.

>I feel bad for Hydreigon next year.
Amusingly I suspect Hydreigon won't be in that bad a position, 98 speed still puts it above the likes of Mimikyu, Lele, regular Land-T and Fini and it still has like the best special options of near any Dragon available.

It's like one of the only things in the game who naturally gets Earth Power and hits about as hard as Flygon does with it's STAB.

Though that is more a testament to Flygon being a piece of shit with no niche.

>How can he be so perfect?
It really kind of is.

Garchomp is the textbook example of a perfect all-rounder Pokemon without blatantly designing around it.

It kind of makes me mad because Golisopod could've been the next coming of Garchomp with it's similar defensive/offensive distribution but then suddenly 80 to 40 speed? Seriously fuck the S/M designers and their sub 50 speed boner.

>>32195195
don't fool yourself, that was only when the format started

oh wow

>>32203692
I thought the speed drop would would make sense since he's all bigger and stopped running away, but then he gets an ability based around fleeing anyways..

>lead Tsareena
>"there's no way my opponent uses Fake Out, so I'll make the smart play and switch"
>they fake out
>oh man I got predicted
>only Tsareena and Garchomp left
>sends back in Hariyama
>they fake out again
>guess not

>>32208200
>using tsareena
That's the problem

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>tfw want to play but don't want to have to solely focus on the game since I'm so used to doing other stuff while playing since I breed everything while watching various shows
Feels bad man
breeding is comfortable for me

>>32210854
I know a solution for your problem

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is this still up to date?

>>32211911
If you'd just scroll up and read you'd find your answer.

>>32203692

>make tapus and ultra beasts
>give everything shit speed and ask people to use speed swap fairy because it's "fun"

OP here, should I stop making these threads?

>>32214859
Competitive is pretty much the only reason I still play pokemon. Sure, there's way better resources for it than /vp/, but this is one of the few worthwhile threads this board still has.

>>32214859
Not really. We may be slow but we sometimes have surges of activity. It's nice to just have the thread there for whenever.

Whoever is on bumping duty, instead of writing whatever try to write a obvious question about something or a subtle bait statement or stuff like that. That always does the trick to bring discussion up somewhat.

>>32214859
no

Why do people inject?

>>32216313
Time.

>>32216313
Pokemon has enough RNG in the battles, I don't wanna pray to it for hours if I want perfect Pokemon.

How do we kill smogon?

>>32216551

Only thing I can think of is Nintendo sending a C&D order

>>32216432
I'm fine with injecting and all but I really dislike this argument for justifying it.
It takes me just a Cybertron video to hatch a perfect mon starting with garbage mons. It only takes longer if you are obsessive like me and have balltism and like to always have mons with 4 egg moves even if you'll never use them.
That "pray for hours to get good RNG while breeding" is just a meme.

>>32217257
It's literally RNG though. You have to wait for it to give you the stats you want. It used to take me more than a fucking day to have a perfect (and by this I mean 5IV, not 6) offspring, even with a 6IV Ditto. I'm just that unlucky.

>>32217285
Well, but as long as you keep track of what you have and keep replacing mons with better ones you are set to get a decent mon in some mins. Also GF has been intent on closing the gap of getting anything in these games. I mean, I remember back in the days of DP EVing a mon with a notebook and tracking 1 by 1 the EVs you had in each mon. Nowadays in just as little as 7 fainted mons you're set. Even better with all the money they give you and with the odds of getting a shiny (if you're looking for those) being one in 500 with max odds or so it's really astounding.
But well, breeding or injecting aside this format with the aloladex is really small in the pokémon competitively viable so as long as you have some 30 or some mons ready you don't ever need to do anything anymore other than just mix them and see what works best for you.

>>32217524
Just because it's easier than it used to be doesn't make automatically mean it's good. It's less shit than before, but it is still utter shit.

>>32216313
It's faster and allows you to have multiple of one-only pokemon and EV and reEV without going through a hassle. I bred most of the breedable stuff I use and soft reseted some mons for nature, then used PkHex to level them up to 100 and hypertrained them with bottlecaps earned through legal means, but since at this point I mostly use variations of mons I already obtained, I just inject them ready as I need them, I ain't rebreeding nothing.

>>32217889
"Literally RNG" would be soft resetting since there's nothing you can do to control the outcome, but with breeding you can at least increase the chances of getting the desired outcome by a lot.
Injecting is perfectly fine. The "pray for RNG" meme is for faggots though.

>>32218588
Still RNG though. It would still be RNG even if you were able to lower the chances to 50/50. It is LITERALLY RNG.

So are there any comfy streams to watch this weekend?

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>>32219430
Keep checking these links through the weekend until someone finds some streamed tournament:

>twitchDOTtv/directory/game/Pok%C3%A9mon%20Sun%2FMoon
>twitchDOTtv/communities/PokemonVGC

>>32219050

>>32219921
it's been a long time since we had a saturday with no streamed event

Finally, I found a streamed Premier Challenge on Twitch:
>utahpokemon

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Happening right now
>>32222686

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The utah streaming ended but an argentinian tournament is live now (with english comments) at
>thesaxladvgc

>>32224228
Is the stream still going? Are they just waiting for a really long round to end?

>>32213343
I don't get it

Rotterdam MSS shit streaming at >pokemonop_benelux
if someone's interested

Ayy

Any suggestions for someone looking to get into the competitive scene? Videos I should watch, tips I should know, etc. I've been thinking about building a team around Mimikyu, but not sure if that's a good idea, and have no idea what else to play with.

Shit ton of Tapus, Ultra Beasts, Arcanines, and Garchomps. It's like I'm watching the same teams fight eachother over and over again

>>32229129
>>32229156
>>32229198
yes yes, we heard you, you don't like it when there is good pokemon and people play to win

>>32203283

ScarfLando can't outspeed Koko? I call BS. And Lando doesn't get butfucked by Z-Dazzling Gleam when not scarfed.

A intimidated Chomp looses to Lele and Bulu. Outspeeding them means little.

How does Chomp hit Fini hard? With Z-EQ? Lando can do the same+higher damage output. All these advantages don't seem that significant really.

>>32229276
I've made a somewhat round semi-TR team based on based Araquanid. However, I can't find anything decent for last spot to deal with both problems this team have (Gastrodon and Koko)
With that said (and that I rarely click the TR button since Araquanid can take a hit or two and actually KO stuff), I'm somewhat inclined to either LO Drampa (which may give me a reason to use Oranguru more) or bulky Tsareena (srsly, I still didn't figure it out).

Team is (as of now): Arcanine/Fini/Araquanid/Oranguru/Braviary/Kartana. Yes, it auto-loses to most Koko teams. Is there another huge gap I should be aware of?

>>32229276
You have zero reading comprehension lad.

>>32229792
There isn't anything remotely semi-TR about that team. It's just a fast FWG core with a slow option and a speed control.

It's effectively just goodstuff with a random Braviary thrown in.

>>32230048
Both waters are -Spe 0IV, that's what I thought.
Still, I have nothing for checking Koko.

>>32201303
I used it on smeargle to some success. But the thing with smeargle is that it gets outsped by fast lele or arcanine, so it's always a gamble if you want to spore them. It's nice to be able to shut down muk, snorlax, or celesteela though.

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I don't plan on using Pheromosa anytime soon, but I am forced to catch 4 of those things before I can catch Celesteela. What natures should I go for? I was thinking Lonely for mixed with high damage output, Hasty for mixed for speed creeping and Modest for full special with Fightinium-Z and HP Electric. What should be 4th one be? Thinking about Adamant, but that'd mean weakening Ice Beam or completely getting rid of it.

>>32231096
idr the name but whichever nature is +Atk -SpDef. that's really the best one for mixed because your bulk is so ass already.

>>32231192
That'd be Naughty. But Naught is bad as it makes your SpD lower than your actual Def and can give Pory2 potentially a SpA boost from Download. I prefer Lonely (+Atk -Def).

>>32229792
dont run oranguru you dumbass

>>32231222
that's true but most porygons run return/ice beam now anyway, i dont like to lower phero defense because pretty much every priority move is physical

So how annoying will Thunderous + Tapu Koko be when the VGC opens up to previous generations?

What other Tapu + Genie combos could work?

>>32232442
none because all of them are flying type so they don't get the terrain benefits

>>32231096
J.I.I.

>>32232442
that meta already exists and no one uses Thundurus

>>32232442

It's pretty much Genie + Lando-T.

>>32232442
Why would Koko + Thundurus be any good? If anything, given the thunderwave+ swagger+ prankster nerf, Koko would be used over Thundurus. It still has a good typing, but I think I'd very much rather use Koko or Zapdos as my electric

>>32234163
Discharge into it for volt absorb shenanigans, but it will look like Koko and two genies you can feely discharge into and they'll be able to pivot amongst themselves. Lead intimidate Lando and Koko, have thunderous in the back. I still feel thunderous is better as a prankster incarnate.

>>32230048
Well honestly the most obvious option here is not to run one between Fini, Braviary or Araquanid to reduce your Koko weakness and add something with a better matchup.

I feel like something like Togedemaru, Magnezone or Vikavolt would help here.

dead

http://www.trainertower.com/trainer-tower-vgc-17-meta-snapshot-feb-march-2017/

>>32237832
Well, I have resisted so much but it appears my efforts are futile. Time to get me a Cancerdog and Garchomp.

>>32238172
I thought everyone loved arcanine

>>32238655
Hipsters liked him when he was a niche pick, now that he's meta, they hate him.

>>32238655
I never liked him and actually disliked it because there he was always a favorite of your typical "It works well enough in OU but not that good to be OU which means he's not cancer" crowd. Seeing it on every damn team on this format just made me hate it even more.

>>32238932
>>32238172
What Fire type could you even pick in this meta?

The only ones who aren't total shit are Torkoal and Salazzle and the latter is too fragile to take any hits which is actually what you kind of need from your Fire type.

Turtonator has ass for a offensive stat, Marowak is basically a weaker Torkoal who doesn't support the team in any meaningful way and Magmortar has a awful speed base and no Heat Wave to justify it's use.

>>32239210
That's the point. Everyone and their mom uses it because there's simply no other choices thanks to the lovely and varied AlolaDex.

>Marowak is basically a weaker Torkoal who doesn't support the team in any meaningful way
Now this is factually false. It may not be every team/10 like in 2016 but to say it is unusable shit is simply not true.

>>32236893

off topic but is there any point in hoarding rare candies in SM? I used to save them up to check IVs in between saves, but now that there's a built in IV checker, seems rather pointless.

>>32240976
It's always been pointless because you can just inject it.

>>32238932
I've always liked both both in design and competitively. The problem with some stuff that is in every team is that it gets so repetitive and boring that when using them myself it means I'll be seeing them more and more. It's one of the many reasons why people with successful teams will still change teams as soon as an event is over or a season changes.

>>32239210
Well, here's the secret. I've either used Turtonator or dealt with steel types in different ways without a fire type. Kartana dies with anything Fire type and also with special attacks. Celesteela dies with Electric attacks. Metagross falls to Ghost and Z-moves. At least that's how I've managed to avoid using an Arcanine but as I said, it apparently is so good that there's no option but to take the mon and save some time in timebuilding.

>>32240976
I don't inject and even I feel hoarding them has been rather pointless from some time back. The only reason to do it is when you are leveling up a mon to 100 in a single day and you want to do the jump from level 98 to 100 asap.

>>32239210
Talonflame is actually pretty good support

>>32242224
Fuck off

>>32239773
Well I was generalizing on uselessness, but far as power goes it is actually true.

Far as single target moves go Z-Eruption from Torkoal in the Sun scores a good 15-20% more damage over a 252+ Flare Blitz from Marowak without any recoil.

Far as pure bulk goes Torkoal has the advantage too with 70/140/70 vs 60/110/80 only losing slightly in s.def and it's slower for hard TR too and there is the matter of it giving free Sun whilst Marowak can only grant Elec redirection.

>>32241388
What do you run on Turtonator?

I'm legit curious since I've tried to make it work but the speed/offense and low HP ultimately always does it in with it always missing kills even using Overheat/D-Meteor and not being able to tank anything only simply not die immediately.

>>32241388
give us that turtonator set nao

>>32244088
>comparing a z move to a normal move to prove your point
>completely disregarding marowak's ability when koko is running rampant once again

Just say that you hate Marowak and be done with it.

desu

>>32245185
>disregarding marowak's ability when koko is running rampant once again
Well yes considering one of the largest recent tournaments had HALF the top cut using Togedemaru and ZERO Marowak's I'm sure I hate Marowak along with everyone else.

>comparing a z move to a normal move to prove your point
Sure we can compare it to Marowak's Z-Flare Blitz and...

Oh wait....

Seriously get your head out of your ass if you think any negatives is an attack on your favourite Pokemon. The meta has changed and it obviously didn't have the tools to adapt.

>>32244088
>>32244279
Turtonator @ Firium Z
Ability: Shell Armor
Level: 50
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Wide Guard

Keep in mind this is no Arcanine and you shouldn't play it as offensively as you would an Arcanine and you also need Trick Room support for max annoyance. Has any of you seen Se Jun's Goodra? How it was more of an annoyance that slowly chipped away your health without going down? You play it like that.
And Toxic is vital to add pressure to Snorlax and any bulky mon that crosses paths and tries to set up. Also helps my Sun matchup, can 1vs1 Arcanine and Kokos, pressures Kartana and Pheromosa and punishes scarf chomps. The Z crystal is there as an emergency measure, as it helps speed up the death of bulky mons and OHKOs 148 SpD Celesteela and Assault Vest Metagross (albeit somewhat rare I've found some).
Basically, it does what I need it to do on my team at least.

File: C8k6lXYWsAAw5Oz.jpg-large.jpg (36KB, 831x202px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 831x202px

It gets more obvious every day that the TCG fuckers are running VGC.

>>32246327
It's already updated pal.

>>32246356
Doesn't change the fact that they still fuck up extremely simple shit that everyone that has ever played the game knows about, not to mention that they rely on the playerbase to correct stuff because of how ignorant they are.

>>32243427
how rude

>>32245896
>Different Pokemon work differently
No shit Sherlock. No one is saying is that Marowak is SSS+ even better than the Tapus but to say it has literally no utility and not even a single niche it cannot fill in the meta is bull. That's what we are calling on, on your sheer hypocrisy.

>Let's compare Torkoal's best and Marowak's worst and that's how we know Marowak is shit

>Sure we can compare it to Marowak's Z-Flare Blitz and...
>Marowak is shit if you take away the item that gives it utility!
Seriously dude? Do you even see what you write?

How about we talk about your precious Torkoal without Eruption and without Drought then? Surely that means Torkoal will be tip top of the game required on every team?

Get your head out of your ass.

>>32245896
Funny how complain about Marowak "not supporting the team" (when it does) and yet don't mention at all the support that Torkoal requires to function properly.
Yes, the Z move is more powerful. Once. That hardly means Marowak is weaker than Torkoal. If anything, Marowak being just slightly weaker than a Z-Eruption in the sun is a point for Marowak.
It's worth noting that Marowak can do good damage consistently, it doesn't require a Z crystal or a Choice item to do so, just the Thick Club. If Torkoal blows the Z move (if you even run it in the first place) or gets low health it's pretty underwhelming. Not shitting on Torkoal, they both have their goods and their bads but they are very different pokemon. No point in comparing them, but if you do, at least do it in a reasonable way.

>>32245967
So what's the rest of your team for context? Pardon the scepticism but maybe you can alleviate it.

TAPU

Should Z moves be able to crit y/n

>>32249369
Maybe

>more bump posts than actual discussion
just give up

>>32251310
o-ok

>>32247398
>Torkoal requires to function properly.
Because it should go without saying it doesn't matter what you pick if they're slow they need support to function?

Lightning Rod is a niche but it's clearly not enough when results are not materializing. Meanwhile Drought only requires Torkoal shows it's stupid face and it's done, anything else which benefits from the Weather can use it too.

Unless you're trying to say you can slap Marowak onto any random team which goes back to the original point of picking a Fire type in this meta. Arcanine has that role covered so well it's forcing Marowak out of a job.

>if you do, at least do it in a reasonable way.
So two slow fire types straight up at their best in a contest of pure damage output isn't fair?

Carrying on from where I got to the only ways for other Fire types to distinguish themselves is either be faster or a lot more powerful if slower.

>slightly weaker than a Z-Eruption in the sun is a point for Marowak.
It isn't a 'little weaker' but a pretty large margin and it was a superfluous note for sake of interest. Fact is it has an item slot, it's free to do many things.

I feel like I shouldn't have to point out the obvious either but regular Eruption is 10% weaker than full strength Flare Blitz except it's slapping 2 Pokemon around so it's still putting out more fire damage per turn. Z-Eruption exists for that low health scenario you mentioned if you choose to use it. If not...it still learns just about every Fire attack available like Heat Wave, Overheat, Fire Blast etc.

If you want to prop up Marowak's, a real point is Bonemerang really, a Fire type has one of the only good Ground attacks in this meta. Which gives it a odd boon of a Fire type that beats other Fire.

>>32247075
You're clearly not very bright to miss obvious sarcasm because the point just pole vaulted completely over your head.

>>32251310

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827KB, 1280x1280px

missing me already?

>>32252202
>regular Eruption is 10% weaker than full strength Flare Blitz
it does actually ~25% weaker, but whatever. the doble damage thing is quite nice still
>So two slow fire types straight up at their best in a contest of pure damage output isn't fair?
they function in a different manner, Torkoal is meant to spam Fire attacks under the sun while having a partner that supports it and that works because it hits both targets at the same time for a lot of damage. It has a hard time working without Lilligant or Oranguru (or other TR setter but that doesn't work so well)
Marowak's thing is that it can cockblock electric moves and do very good damage without having to rely on a partner, and it can work even without speed control. It isn't as slappable on any team as Arcanine (nothing is), and depends a lot on its item.
Other than both being Fire type and hitting hard, there's nothing to compare. The kind of teams they are seen on are quite different. It's like comparing Gyarados to Araquanid. They are both strong waters, but they both do different things, it makes no sense to say one is better than the other as a water type because you wouldn't use them in the same way.

>>32252202
>results are not materializing
Marowak is was and is still seen in a whole lot of top cuts all over, including Regionals and the London International; Torkoal has one regional second place, and not much else. I wouldn't call that "no results", considering the option you're claiming is superior has even less.

>>32255771
no fuck you

just

>>32259594
fuck

MY

>>32187592
>where's toxapex?

the 1450s on battle spot

>>32179573
Wait, why is everyone using Arcanine now?

>>32262997
Everyone been using Arcanine since the beginning of the year.

>>32262997
because it's great

B8?

>>32262628
Meta

>>32265417
up

>Making a new team
>Trying to fill in the last slow
>Notice Incineroar would be the perfect fit
>Remember it has no Intimidate

Fuck you Gamefreak

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Reminder

>>32269695
let's keep the thread alive at least until the streaming

>>32270860
When is the streming?

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there's any reason why imposter Ditto is underutilized in VGC? It seems to me like he would be amazing at the information gathering part of the game in a best 2/3 scenario.

>>32271991
because it's more useful to have a consistent mon than something that gives you information you could get anyway. It only kinda worked on VGC16 because you had a good chance of copying a very powerful mon.

Jesus fucking christ 100% of 30 matches I had today started with the opponent leading with Drifblim and Tapu Lele, what a fucking bore because they play exactly the same way, all the time, no reason to even think what to do. So much for a varied format.

>>32272708
it's just a matter of time till something that shits on that wins something important and everyone stops using it; or just the next flavor of the month

>>32272708
But anon! People told me that VGC17 was the super duper most varied format ever because it had no genies!

>>32273580
Mimikyu is a 99.9% counter. Pretty much any Ghost that can outspeed Lele does. The worst part is that I can count with one hand the people who notice that and do something about it. No, they all attack with Lele and Tailwind with Drifblim like if they were playing in auto.

There is truly nothing worse in this world than shitters using the flavor of the month without any thought as to why or how. At least it's free wins but free wins are boring as fuck. And it fucks me up for when I find the rare person who actually plays it properly because I just assume it's yet another shitter.