/vgcg/ - VGC General

>>32141763
Rip Tapu Bulu

>$1,201
is that USD?
what's the payoff for nationals or worlds?

>>32141917
http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/pokemon-events/pokemon-tournaments/international-championships/

http://www.pokemon.com/us/play-pokemon/worlds/2016/pokemon-world-championships-prizes/

2017 Worlds Prizes have not been announced yet.

>>32141917
That's just a showdown tournament

ded

>>32144651
f
Why do more people enjoy smogon, it's sad. I wish VGC came out at gen four or something.

>>32145220
I enjoy all formats desu so I can't understand people that whine about smogon being the best, or smogon being the worst, doubles a shit, etc. The same goes for consolewars and genwars.

That said there's not much to talk about right now I guess. When is the Brazil event?

Also fuck teambuilding, haven't felt like I was "doing homework" in a while doing calcs and stuff. Only hope my team isn't shit when I try in BS, as that will really piss me off. I mean I've already tried it on the PS ladder to decent success but I feel that while similar, the two ladders are completely different so who knows.

>>32145248
It's not really how good either one is, it's just that a lot more people are used to singles rather than doubles and thus default to smogon's standards essentially everywhere. There's always a thread or two that's actively discussing the latest bans or what have you, but this is all we really have for this format. I wish places did tournaments much like how you can easily go to a comic book store and find a magic, yugioh or whatever tournament. I'd really love for a mainline series game to have doubles as a starting option instead of the regular way battles are done, like the gamecube games. Maybe start with (x) starter and get whatever the regional rodent is, or pikachu? It would just be neat to see doubles in the mainline game as an option, and I think it's encourage more people to get into VGC as well.

>>32145220
It did start in gen 4 though

>>32145261
Real problem is Gamefreak's designers, they don't have a fucking clue what they want to do with the game.

Doubles is the standard format yet there is absolutely no support for Doubles in the main adventure. Some games you can even go an entire play through without ever even encountering one.

They keep introducing new mechanics but dropping them whilst keeping legacy mechanics around which clutter things more.

They want it to be some what competitive but halfass everything and don't do periodic balance patches at all. You can't have real competitive without ever releasing a balance patch. Some of the changes we've seen like base stat tweaks and ability nerfs? They could've all been done last gen too and are we in need of some kind of patch because Land Guardians are really obnoxious. It'd be as simple as making manual terrain more available or just toning down the damage boosts or tweaking some effects. As it is terrains right now make entire moves and strategies redundant or pointless without a means of mitigation. That isn't good game design at all.

They don't have a enhanced Pokemon Stadium style edition game for the people who actually want to invest fully into the nitty gritty of the game. It could even come with a Stadium 2 School style mode which actually explains extra battle effects, select strategies and lets you put them into practice in mock battles.

The circuit has poor distribution and management despite the fact the playerbase have shown they are willing to pay in order to enable more events to be held. You have issues when even some countries like UK/Germany/Spain/Italy where there is a strong fanbase only get at tops 2 events per year. Furthermore it doesn't help the TCG side of things are actively sabotaging the VG scene.

>>32146189
yes

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>>32141763
>Incineroar in top team

wtf

>>32145220
Higher barrier of entry. Especially if you live outside of the US.

With smogon formats you just click on showdown and can start playing right away.

>>32148304
Don't forget how VGC is a live-events thing. If you don't go to them you cannot be part of the circlejerk.

>finish breeding a team
>okay, new season, time to hit the ladder
>get dc'ed at the first game
now I remember why I don't play that often.

>>32148832
just

>>32148886
jesus I'd be more glad to pay for online on the switch rather than play on the 3ds. It's complete garbage, sometimes I can't even get to the team preview and bam, back to the plaza. As if laddering in this format wasn't frustrating enough in and of itself

>>32148916

If online pay is inevitable for pokemon, does that mean Showdown is done for?

>>32149074
If they made a stadium-like game on switch with online play that worked like showdown I'd be all over it. (except I don't have a switch so idk)

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>>32148832
I'm proud of the people who still breed legal mons in the VGC community.

>>32149107
Would not word the money desu

There's a local tourney this weekend, it's full of shitters, but I was planning on playing singles only. Can anyone here give me a decent doubles team? i might joing the VGC tour if there's enough people. Thanks in advanced

>>32151116
http://pastebin.com/nyiWNJYA for the team I've been using if you want to inject it.
http://pastebin.com/50jut0p6
I lose some of these, but these do showcase the weaknesses of the team and the strengths. I posted a QR link in the other thread and tested the mons on the team on battlespot and it should work if you want to practice.
Here's the QR code link:
https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/BT-71D8-463C
If that doesn't work search in rental teams for Nihilego, with trick room and grassy seed.

>>32150312
all three of them

for those who defend injection because it doesn't grant inherent advantages, the pokemon might look the same, but the injectfag is already battling while the breedfag is busy playing with tauros

>>32152198
That argument doesn't work when you have Showdown. You can shit on its players all you want, but practice is practice.

>>32152179
I can't get the QR to work even when searching manually. What did you inject wrong?

>>32152179
Thanks a lot man

>>32152220
Nothing as far as I can tell. I can take it on battle spot myself, and when I look at the files everything comes up as legal. So unless it's something as janky as the PID/EC I have no clue. All the movesets are legal, met locations and pokeballs are all legal also, they have no memories like all gen 7 pokemon, and everything that needs to be there is there like being bred or captured in x location. So I have no clue.

>>32145220
VGC did come out in gen 4 its been around since 2008 it's just that it didnt start getting a lot of coverage till about 2012 and didnt have as many countries competing until about 2014

Gonna bump this shit because at this rate it'll be dead by the time I wake up.
At this pace we're going I do believe that thing in the OP might end up being true.
Or at least it will last until the Brazil event in one month.

>>32146668
>TCG side of things are actively sabotaging the VG scene.
explain!

>>32147987
Yeah, it seems pretty useless right now without Intimidate.

>>32154010
Intimidate won't make it magically do more damage or have access to Fake Out, you know. It already has good traits.

>>32147987
It's decently good. Honestly the only bad thing about it is that it's a fire type that can be beaten by Kartana, which is no small flaw. Other than that, it's pretty solid.

>>32154831
It'll migitate the damage it's already taking it make it a more viable mon to switch in.

>>32155414
Sadly it is a pretty major flaw since Kartana is retardedly strong to the point some STAB fighters do less damage than it and one of the main jobs of a Fire type in this meta is to check Kartana.

Nevertheless I still believe Incineroar is pretty solid even without Intimidate and most people are just simply using it wrong.

>>32156218
Still, it's a pretty good option for a Fire type. The typing is pretty good offensively, and pretty okay defensively too. It actually has pretty good bulk and gets Darkest Lariat, U-turn, Taunt, Fake Out, EQ for Tectonic Rage I guess. Intimidate would be a bonus, but it's already viable

>>32156407
It's just mostly it sits in that awkward speed tier of too slow for regular matchups and too fast to outslow things in TR and that Dark type is so gimped this Gen it isn't funny.

I'm of opinion Throat Chop > Darkest Lariat as a Dark STAB. Look at everything which might use defense boosts in this meta and it's basically just Eevee, Snorlax, Gastrodon and Muk none of which are good matchups anyway since Eevee is almost always accompanied by a redirector/Fake Out user.

On the other hand Throat Chop at the expense of only 5BP would let you shut down Snarl, Roar, Parting Shot, Perish Song, Hyper Voice, Clanging Scales. Which are all relevant in some way even if uncommon.

>>32152215
Meh, testing teams or practicing for cart formats on Showdown is a waste of time, at least for BSS, the level of skill between the two playerbases is just too damn huge.

I can shit on showdown BSS players all day with my team and find no flaws with it, but then go on cart and get BTFO'd by a low ladder Nip as every flaw with my team now becomes apparent, it's ridiculous.

It's why I just 100% stick to cart battles now, I learn nothing from beating scrubs on simulators when literally all the best BSS players play on cart. I also have access to Pkhex so I can quickly change up things anyway if things aren't working.

Please god let VGC18 come already so we can finally get away from this boring extremely centralized cancer meta and the worst managed circuit in the history of of VGC and so we can start having fun again

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>>32157458
If I wasn't so lazy I'd remind you of this in a year from now.

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>>32157458
>>32157527

>>32157527
I don't know about the meta but I seriously doubt we can go any lower circuit-wise short of making it exclusively for US players to the point where you cannot play unless you have a born-US citizen.

>>32157552
Upvoted. If only Epic God Pachi and Karenbro Sejun were ...

>>32157562
nice triggering

So, assuming that next year format will be NatDex and it keeps using SM which means a gorillion legends will not be usable I think it would be a pretty decent NatDex format.

NatDex staples such as Heatran, Cresselia and Landorus and Thundurus would be not usable. And let's say Megas are still not allowed to be used.

Would this be an acceptable VGC18 meta for you lads? It would be more or less the same we have now but anything that is breedable would be allowed.

>>32157607
I'd be fine with that, but I do want to see megas again. Mainly for mawile, gengar, and gyarados.

>>32157624
Honestly, without Heatran and Landorus-T everywhere Mawile would go back to her former VGC14 glory as the premier Mega Mom cockblock. All the M-Mence that's sure to be around would check her too. I truly believe that Mega Mom would not be broken on such a hypothetical format.

>>32156553
Yeah I actually intended to list Throat Chop, not Darkest Lariat. Even if Dark isn't the bestest type around, being immune to Tapu Lele's strongest attacks is pretty nice.

>>32157640
She (Kang) would even lose some options (PuP and Low Kick mainly) since there are no tutors and you have to rebreed your stuff.

>>32157680
She also has to eat that sweet sweet Sucker Punch nerf, on top of her Parental Bond nerf. So... I doubt that m-kang would be as good as she was besides the amazing Fake Out support.

>>32157680
Thank god for the lack of PuP TM that was pretty much the breaking factor with M-Khan it turned so many games into a snowball.

>>32157834
On the other hand that doesn't suddenly make her that much weaker, she still has a shitload of other options to use and the exact same coverage as before.

>>32157640
I don't think M-Mence would be as big a factor as you'd think the nerf to Aerilate is quite noticeable. The Pentagon rule would strip it of Hyper Voice forcing it to go physical and ultimately Koko is a pretty awful matchup for it. That thing is just as rampant in Doubles as Lele or Land-T who dictate the meta.

>>32157607
I'd actually pretty interested to see it for curiousity sake. Heatran, Cress, Land-T and Thundurus have just all been such a overwhelming presence in every NatDex meta it'd be outright alien to not have them available.

Though admittedly I don't know how much I like the lack of Mega's on the other hand. Without Mega's and with Psychic Terrain still a thing it'd just bring back more obnoxious Scarfmoar speed wars. Koko is already in a really obnoxious speed tier and there is absolutely nothing that can upset that other than Mega's. But unlike Koko Mega's can't run items so you know what you're getting with them.

Any streamings for this weekend?

>>32159022
Dunno.
Is there going to be a smash stream for that bloomwhatever regional? one of my buddies just ran into hbox coincidentally and I need something to watch this weekend.

>>32157834
What happened with sucker punch?

>>32158397

In regards to Mega mence, it wouldnt be that bad of a matchup, since it can learn earthquake to deal a good amount of damage. Celesteela is a problem though...

>>32160693
252 Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko in Electric Terrain: 106-126 (72.6 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Earthquake is such an awkward move to use anyway.

>>32160614
80 power down to 70
It seems a reasonable nerf; it's a fantastic move which majorly buffed a lot of very powerful Pokémon, and the nerf was slight enough to not completely ruin it.

>>32161049
Oh yeah? Didn't even notice.
I was just watching those most recent cybertron videos with the gimmick anger point trick room team, honchrow hits fucking hard, jeez.

Just hatched my second shiny nest ball grubbin, everything but defense is perfect so I'mma boost it up to 100 after a few rounds at the e4 and some fancy dinners.
Anyone bother breeding competitive shinies or did most just inject? I've got the shiny charm and whatnot so it makes it easier. This team's gonna be fun.

>>32147987
Barafag desperate to make his barashit good

>>32161049
The real nerf was that we got the fairly fast Land Guardians this gen, all who heavily resist the move. But yes it was a good move for the reason that it now no longer makes it objectively better than the 40BP priority moves.

>>32161255
Is that the one where you use a Super Luck Honchkrow to Sucker Punch a Krook giving it the +6 from Anger Point?

I've seen it once or twice and it is quite a dangerous setup if very hard to pull off due to Honchkrow's general defenses and the middling speed tiers.

>>32157607
If they allowed megas but kept legends out it would be very interesting.

>>32159022
portland regs on twitch.tv slash nuggetbridge

>>32161945
it hasn't started yet, has it?

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>>32162510
no, but there's another stream going on for today

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Three streamed tournaments are live on Twitch:
>nuggetbridge
>pkmnbattleleague
>battleharbor

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>The opposing Gyarados used Flamethrower!
>Kartana fainted!

cybertron about to lose on the stream

>>32163842
color me surprised

>>32163842

He came back despite a bad matchup, is he losing his streaming curse?

>>32164010
He's choke later anyway. He always does.

http://www.trainertower.com/battle-road-gloria-national-convention/

>Silvally winning in Japan
Fucking nips man

>>32164200
I wish it would explain what type it was, if anything. I want to say water or grass looking at all the other teams but I wouldn't know.

>>32164200
If you look past the Silvally all I see is the ultimate example of textbook '17 unflexible meta teambuilding.

Tapu + Ground + Fire + Steel + speed control + flip a coin

>>32164319
I think it was normal silvally actually

>>32164359
I mean sadly it seems like forgoing the memory for a better item seems to be the better choice for the chimeradoggo. I just see a lot of gigalith in that top eight and not the best of ways to deal with them.

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>>32164319
The guy tweeted the set, fortunately. Since most people can't into moon, I'll translate it for you.

Silvally@Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
Explosion
Parting Shot
Rock Slide
Flamethrower

>>32164387
Huh. What nature, naive?

>>32164429
No, Jolly. I doublechecked since it does have Flamethrower, but I guess it did whatever it does fine even with negative nature. Standard Kartana still gets OHKO'd, for one.

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Anyone watching any of the streamings?

>>32164754
I am, normally I skip it but the smash regional is really weak right since it's in pools.
Is cybertron still running the memeteam?

>>32164321
B-But VGC17 is fun and varied anon! There's no Landorus-T so it's good! N-No megas! T-Tapus aren't legends so they are okay to see everywhere! Same as Ultra Beasts!

>>32164913
as much as scrubs like to whine, vgc17 is more varied than previous metas. It is less archetype based and more "50 shades of goodstuff" but seeing 12 different mons in a match is not rare.

How many celesteela run speed investment?
I'm doing some calcs and seeing that I speed tie it with a certain mon if it doesn't have any speed investment.

>>32164958
That doesn't count as variety and diversity, silly. Lord Pachi isn't in the dex.

>>32165045
can we all agre that, in hindsight, Sejun did more harm than good to the VGC scene with his 2014 worlds team?

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>>32165087
>tfw I wanted Sejun to win because I liked the guy and it seemed like his best chance to do it but also didn't want him to win because I knew what would happen afterwards back

>>32165170
jeudy was literally /ourguy/, also he had a mememon too (mow-rotom)

>>32164913
"diversity = good" is retarded enough on its own but

>implying a pokemon is inherently broken and unbalanced just because it's technically a legendary

are you a third-grader or just dumb as a rock? dont pretend that the presence of "legendaries" of itself made 15 and/or 16 bad when the designation of 'legendary' is 100% arbitrary from a competitive viability perspective.

also, "tapus everywhere = bad" is equally stupid for the same reason -- it's disingenuous to act like the tapus as a group are some severely centralizing metagame force when they're all really different mons with unique and non-overpowered functions. literally the only similarities they have are that they all auto-summon terrain and are special-attacker fairy types because bulu doesn't count

>>32165691
You know that post was being sarcastic, right?

>>32165691
I'm not gonna say the Tapus are broken because they are not but to say they are not centralizing and extremely good Pokemon is bull. They bring amazing field control akin to Primals/M-Ray last year where you are required to pack your own to counteract your enemy's 99% of the time because otherwise you'd let your opponent's Tapu roam unchecked, specially if their team has ways to abuse the terrain in itself.

Arcanine is also more similar to Landorus-T than more realize role-wise in this meta. It's all about role-centralization, he can do so much stuff on his own that it's hard to justify not use him over other Pokemon that can also do one or two things Arcanine does when Arcanine can do those one and two things and then 3 more things too.

>>32165729
i know, and via sarcasm it was saying that vgc17 is bad because of "muh tapus"

>>32165873
Well, it is undeniable that Tapus are everywhere. Except if your name is Gavin Michaels.

>>32164754
What's the link for the Illinois MSS one?

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>>32165873
>Landorus, Heatran and Cresselia are everywhere in VGC15
>Baaaaaaaaaaw VGC15 is shit!
>Groudon and Kyogre and Xerneas and Rayquaza are everywhere in VGC16
>Baaaaaaaaaaw VGC16 is shit!
>Tapus are everywhere in VGC17
>VGC17 is a perfectly balanced meta and there are zero issues with it!

Why the hypocrisy? Why is it okay when Tapus do it?

>>32165947
I didn't know there was any MSS on Illinois today, did you mean the Connecticut MSS?

>>32165950
only idiots say that. VGC15 was a great meta despite the final result, and 16's problem wasn't the lack of variety as much as the absurd power of xerneas/primals/ray/etc turning the games into 5-turns solitaires plagued by Dark void, 85 acc spread moves and speed ties everywhere. Also tapus aren't half as bad as genies, considering there's 3 (4) of them who are viable instead of 2 and they don't have easily spammable hax moves like rock slide, twave or swagger.

>>32166017
No, the bottom right stream on that image is a stream from Illinois I think

>>32141763
Snorlax bros I welcome.

>>32166060
that was a quick spanish streaming in a comic shop, if I'm not wrong

>>32147987
My nigga braviary managed to get there to.

>>32165950
no one who thinks vgc17 is good cries about vgc15, don't kid yourself. and yet again, grouping the tapus together and yelling 'broken' is literally as arbitrary as grouping arcanine, garchomp, and p2 together, labeling them "the dogdragonducks" and calling them broken. the tapus are so different in their functions and purpose that it really doesnt make any sense to say that they are the evil legendary boogeyman killing vgc, especially when they aren't even broken in the first place. congrats, three mons in the top 10 usage all have 'tapu' in their name. what a groundbreaking observation

>>32166080
Alex Underhill is an american player, so no.

>>32166108
>the tapus are so different in their functions and purpose that it really doesnt make any sense to say that they are the evil legendary boogeyman killing vgc
You can say the same about Landorus, Heatran and Cresselia and Groudon, Kyogre, Xerneas and Rayquaza. Or are you gonna tell me they all fulfill the same roles on their respective metas?


>grouping the tapus together and yelling 'broken' is literally as arbitrary as grouping arcanine, garchomp, and p2 together, labeling them "the dogdragonducks" and calling them broken
The Tapus are generally grouped together because, you know, they are a group of Pokemon with similar qualities, names, lore, etc. They are a group in-game. That's why people group them together. The same way people say "the genies" or "the primals" or "the ultra beasts". Stop comparing apples and oranges anon.

>>32166145
1. "the primals are killing vgc" and "the tapus are killing vgc" both group unrelated pokemon together. the difference, however, is that the primals made vgc '16 extremely shitty to play because they centralized the metagame down to a very short list of pokemon and supporters, resulting in annoying dynamics such as speed ties and guessing ev spreads/held items not to mention their offensive prowess making sleep, another annoying thing, extremely viable.

meanwhile, what have the tapus done that has "ruined" 2017? sure they all sit high up in usage three of them do anyway but they havent introduced a signifcant un-fun dynamic to playing or teambuilding.

2. the tapus are dissimilar because from a competitive perspective lores and names are meaningless. all they share is a secondary fairy type, an inclination to use special attacks, and auto-terrain. auto-terrain isnt even a real similarity because all the terrains serve different functions.

i didnt address your mentions of kang/heatran/landorus because as we've already established no one who knows anything actually tries to claim 17 is good and 15 is bad.

>>32166086
I love using Braviary since I gave it a chance. It's really fucking strong, and bulkier than people seem to think it is, apparently. It's become my default Arcanine check.

>>32166236
braviary as a check to arcanine?

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Marriland looks like THAT ?

so I just got back from the Portland reg and my team is still locked in the battle box despite me leaving the competition. Does anyone know how to fix this shit?

>>32165216

Felt bad, because the RNG fucked him over with the damage rolls.

>>32168399
Boot the game, go to live competitions and try to battle, it should unlock your box.

>>32168429
do you mean friendly/online competitions? Bc I see no options for live competitions

>>32168484
No. The option appears at the file select screen, below the mistery gift button.

>>32168503
Oh, okay. Sorry for being such a dumbass lol, this was my first time ever competing so I have no clue what i'm doing

>>32168518

How'd you do?

>>32167704
It either makes people not want to bring Arcanine or punish them hard if they do.
+1 252+ Atk Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 195-231 (98.9 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Not to mention all the other shit it kills, especially with a Z crystal.

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whatever happened to the homebrew and injection requests threads?

>>32166230
>they havent introduced a signifcant un-fun dynamic to playing or teambuilding.
I'd say they have for the same reasons as '16 as many have pointed out already.

Terrains in their current form are extremely debilitating and have actually completely killed some playstyles altogether. There is no denial status moves have almost dropped off the face of the Earth along with priority moves. Both are important because it basically forces the whole game into a pure first strike DPS game.

I mean you tell me, what option is there available for someone who doesn't want to run terrain? You can't lock it down in any way possible other than using one or ignoring it at a massive disadvantage the option literally does not exist.

Also the Tapu's that matter run very little variations to their setups unlike '15's CHALK teams so almost everything comes down to speed ties.

>>32171835
>what option is there available for someone who doesn't want to run terrain?
Hard trick room can work.

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Current streamings for this comfy sunday

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I've been messing around on Super Doubles with M-Sceptile and Tapu Koko. So far it's been fun.

Sceptilite when GF?

>>32171835
>status moves have dropped off along with priority
Thunder wave isn't used because it's shit now, and Spore has 3 users, none of which are very good. Will-o-wisp is still pretty common and Toxic is always seen in tourneys, though it's as uncommon as ever.
As for priority, Fake Out is still used and Extreme Speed remains used on a great deal of offensive Arcanines. Other priority like feint and such was always uncommon as it is today. The only notable priority change is Brave Bird because it's dead.
You're acting like the terrains are the most importan thing ever, as if Electric, Psychic and Grassy are incredible supports for the whole team. If you think they're as bad as the primal weathers then you are lost.

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How do we make Tapu Bulu great again?

>>32172996
>Want to run priority
>Have to pack Koko, Bulu or Fini in case they throw me Lele
>It also means I cannot use Sleep or Stats in general when using Koko or Fini and I cannot use EQ when using Bulu

>Want to run sleep
>Cannot use Koko or Fini
>Have to pack Lele or Bulu to counter Koko and Fini and it means I cannot run priority myself or use Earthquake

>Wanna use TW and WoW or Sleep again
>Cannot use Fini or Koko
>Have to pack Bulu or Lele to counter Fini and Koko
>Cannot run priority or Earthquake too

But Tapus totally don't dictate the games and even teambuilding itself because of how common they are.

What's next? Will you say that Weather Wars didn't exist on Gen 5? Or Primal Wars didn't exist in VGC16 too?

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REDEEMED

>>32173838
that was very well played

>>32173674
>VGC 14
>Want to run a grass type
>Have to pack intimidate and a supereffective mon on flying so talonflame doesnt eat me alive

>want to run a frail pokemon
>have to run a willowisp ghost type and mega mawile so kangaskhan doesnt punch me to death

>literally any form of competitive pokemon
>want to run something 4x weak to ice
>have to bring a steel type so ice beam users dont destroy me

dude, literally every format of competitive pokemon has strategies with counters that you have to build around. the tapus aren't oppressing your precious diversity just because they won't let you use sleep. hell, you can still viably run sleep and burn anyway. have you seen the success of drifblim and lilligant? if your strategy revolves around sleep that heavily that the tapus motivate you to write an angry post on 4chan then you're a bad teambuilder plain and simple.

>>32173674
>I have [tapu] on my team so I can't possibly have any priority/status/EQ because [terrain] is sure to be up all the match
>I have to run a Tapu because all my moves are priority and I instalose against Lele
>I have to run a Tapu so I don't instalose to Fini because I want to toxic everything and stall
>also,using thunder wave ever

Just because the terrains are useful doesn't mean they are broken nor they invalidate things. They could use a little balancing on the damage boosts, but that's it.
You're making them look like a gen VI Talonflame against a mono bug team, but they're not.

>Boohoo I have to account for things on teambuilding
Being common doesn't mean shit if they are easily dealt with. There are far worse things that you absolutely need to prepare or you lose.

If you really are having this much problem building because of the mean tapus, then you are the problem.

I have a dumb idea I want to try. How does scarf special silvally sound? If you go modest you can ohko the entirety of things that are 4x weak to flamethrower/boltbeam, and parting shot to act as a pseudo intimidate for either attack stat. Or if you're running koko you can drop the tbolt and just go for tri attack for stab.

>>32174270
so original
>>32164387

>>32174270
it sounds incredibly mediocre but why not give it a try

>>32174270
I imagine it'd be pretty weak and mediocre. Silvally really doesn't hit very effectively, it's after all a little weaker than Pory2 offensively. Only reason Silvally ever works is because of STAB Explosion's base making up for the 95 base. High base power moves are one hell of a drug.

>>32174260
>nor they invalidate things
I don't care much for these anecdotal arguments about who is right or not but this is fucking stupid.

That is literally what the terrains do, they give an IMMUNITY meaning they do invalidate.

>>32174097
Good job comparing apple with oranges.

Notice how your examples the opposing Pokemon actually have to spend their turn to actually fuck you up and your strategy or your teambuilding, you can easily stop them before they damage you, not with the Tapus, who do it so passively with just switching in. There is a reason I'm comparing them to weathers, and Primals, and not with Mega Mom or Talonflame or what-not.

There's a difference between having to pack a counter to a common Pokemon and entire strategies and playstyles being completely denied and nerfed to borderline utility just because of a Pokemon simply switching in.

>the tapus aren't oppressing your precious diversity just because they won't let you use sleep. hell, you can still viably run sleep and burn anyway. have you seen the success of drifblim and lilligant?
You gave me an example proving me right considering how Liligant and Lele pack Lele 99% of the time in the back so that they can burn or sleep reliably. Good job.

>your strategy revolves around sleep that heavily that the tapus motivate you to write an angry post on 4chan then you're a bad teambuilder plain and simple.
No one is angry here lad, if you cannot argue properly and all you can do is throw around ad hominems then please just do us all a favor and just don't post again.

That the game revolves heavily around the Tapus and Tapu Field control is an objective fact that I have no idea how you are able to deny, to the point it is a common occurrence even in Singles.

>>32174303
Well no shit. I tried z-parting shot once it became legal on the ladder. I tried to find space for a multi-attack silvally because I thought it might be useful. I didn't think to use a scarf and just go pure special.

>>32174304
With the scarf it's pretty easy to outspeed the majority of the format, and still add some bulk while staying modest.

>>32174270
Silvally (scarf Silvally at that) has been proven to work very well, so I'd say it's worth a try. The issue would be that anything that isn't 4x weak won't take that much damage, but it is decently bulky and there aren't many fighting-types around to OHKO it. Also, most people would probably expect a physical Silvally, so there's that too.

>>32174376
>The issue would be that anything that isn't 4x weak won't take that much damage
Isn't that the point of this Silvally set? It's kind of like a glue, for to outspeed and kill shit like Garchomp and Kartana and then explode when it's useless against the rest of your opponent team so you can have a free switch it.

It's clearly not something you bring in on every match, but rather, the thing you bring when your match-up is extremely weak to a certain thing which is what you the Silvally was made to kill in specific.

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Reminder that there's still one streamed MSS this weekend.

>>32174446
What stream is it, and what other streams were there today?

>>32174376
In all honesty the only thing that "threatens it" is buzzwole with an assvest, and hariyama.

Mexico Premier Challenge

trainonmx on twitch

>>32174467
filename is the channel on twitch

>>32174514
Alright, I thought that was it but it seemed to odd.
What about top 8 for the nuggetbridge stream, is that over already?

http://www.trainertower.com/vgc-17-buenos-aires-regionals/

Meanwhile in Argentina

>>32174549
cybertron won

>>32174343
a comparison isn't a false equivalency just because there is *a* difference between the two. sure, terrains are different than mega mom/talonflame because mega mom and talonflame have to exert a turn on attacking you while tapus don't have to exert a turn on stopping status. that being said, your criticism was from a teambuilding perspective and from a teambuilding perspective there is not a meaningful difference between packing lele to beat misty terrain and packing rotom-w to beat talonflame.

similarly, the fact that lilligant teams carry lele isn't some automatic proof that le evil tapus are ruining precious diversity. every rain team in past formats carried aegislash or ferrothorn: does this make weather a diversity-killer? no, running a bulky steel just made sense because it gave you a fairy resist without having to use fire-types that get their attacks weakened by your weather.

it does revolve heavily around field control, no one is denying that -- but it's really dumb to say that this is somehow bad for vgc '17 and ruining the meta.

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>>32174549
>>32174603

>>32174613
>there is not a meaningful difference between packing lele to beat misty terrain and packing rotom-w to beat talonflame.
But there is. Even if you pack 6 anti-Tapu counters and the Tapu does absolutely nothing but enter and die the fact is that even if that's all it did, it still set-up the terrain. This the difference between active and passive that I'm trying to tell you about and why it differs from other such powerful and arguably centralizing Pokemon. With other such Pokemon like Talonflame, Mega Mom and the such you could at least have a variety of options to put a stop to them. What other option do you have to stop a Tapu terrain if not by bringing in your own Tapu? Are you gonna say this is not a meaninglful difference from a team-building perspective?

>similarly, the fact that lilligant teams carry lele isn't some automatic proof that le evil tapus are ruining precious diversity. every rain team in past formats carried aegislash or ferrothorn: does this make weather a diversity-killer? no, running a bulky steel just made sense because it gave you a fairy resist without having to use fire-types that get their attacks weakened by your weather.
The difference here being that you could still run rain without a even a single steel on your team. Is it less than ideal? Perhaps. But your overall rain strategy does not become invalidated because you didn't run one "obligatory rain mon" in your rain team.

Meanwhile, using your own Liligant and Drifblim example. What happens if you decide to bring Liligant or Drifblim without Lele on the back and your opponents throws you Koko or Fini? Congratulations, now two of your moveslots have become complete deadweights and one strategy of yours completely nullified. You can't even do chip damage or half damage.

Jesus, this alex guy got blown the fuck out, why'd he bring the mons he did and make the same plays?

>>32174704
it is true that you need to bring your own tapu to change the terrain, but that's really not a serious issue for the metagame. this doesnt make '17 a shitty format. it's perfectly reasonable to run a team with no tapus on it. you can run hard TR, for example. even if we did live in a world that was "bring a tapu or lose," so what? why is that a problem? being required to bring at least one mon in the top 10 usage to do well is not new or an issue. if you seriously consider being """"""required""""" to bring a tapu an issue with pokemon you really shouldnt be playing in the first place.

> the Tapu does absolutely nothing but enter and die the fact is that even if that's all it did, it still set-up the terrain.

yeah and? they're down a mon. that's not really advantageous most of the time.

>Meanwhile, using your own Liligant and Drifblim example. What happens if you decide to bring Liligant or Drifblim without Lele on the back and your opponents throws you Koko or Fini? Congratulations, now two of your moveslots have become complete deadweights and one strategy of yours completely nullified. You can't even do chip damage or half damage.

So what? There are a million other non-tapu situations where your moveslots become dead weight. What if you're against a team with special attackers + facade snorlax and you're running drifblim? Oh no, you can't burn them! Surely snorlax is killing the metagame. What if you're against a rain team and two of your mons have non-STAB fire moves as coverage? looks like rain has ruined vgc, folks! terrains causing a handful of moves to be turned into dead weight, even when it's completely realistic to switch the terrain in your favor, is not a problem.

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This argument is the dumbest shit ever. I really have a hard time believing that someone is actually saying that the Tapus are not among the best, most used and meta defining Pokemon in the format. It's gotta be bait at this point.

>>32174918
i'm not baiting i'm just saying it's not a real problem that they are. this guy sincerely believes the evil tapu boogeyman is killing diversity because he can't willowisp with impunity anymore.

>>32174989
That's you putting words in my mouth bub, find me where I said that the Tapus are broken, I'm talking about the undeniable effects of the Tapus in the metagame. Something you seemingly are in hard denial because in your mind the Tapus are the best thing to have happened to Pokemon since Pachirisu or something like that.

>>32175054
>I'm talking about the undeniable effects of the Tapus in the metagame.

you sure are, and i'm telling you that the effects aren't a big deal

>in your mind the Tapus are the best thing to have happened to Pokemon since Pachirisu or something like that.

not sure what's dumber: accusing me of loving something because i defend it, or accusing me of being a diversityfag sejun fanboy for defending the mons that are in top 5 usage

>find me where I said the Tapus are broken,

"There's a difference between having to pack a counter to a common Pokemon and entire strategies and playstyles being completely denied and nerfed to borderline utility just because of a Pokemon simply switching in."

(in sarcasm) "But Tapus totally don't dictate the games and even teambuilding itself because of how common they are."

"Terrains in their current form are extremely debilitating and have actually completely killed some playstyles altogether."

>>32174330
>That is literally what the terrains do, they give an IMMUNITY meaning they do invalidate.
They give you a situational immunity, that's far from "killing playstyles". They don't invalidate status nor priority as a whole. Sure, if the corresponding terrain is up then it doesn't work, that doesn't mean you can't run that shit anymore. If you don't have a way to change the terrain yet you depend on inflicting status or using the priority then that's on you, it doesn't mean the terrains are all that much.
You CAN use status, you CAN use priority. The tapus existance don't prevent you from doing that, you just need to have them in mind when teambuilding as you would anyway because they are good pokemon you are likely to encounter. They don't are a bigger deal than any other common pokemon or archetype. As you would want answers to Garchomp, Arcanine, Muk, Celesteela, Rain, SunRoom, and other common things, you'd like ways around the Tapus.

qt in the mexican stream

>>32175914
That's not possible tho.

>>32175914
Who was it?

>>32176094
>>32176128
the blue haired commentator >>32174499

>>32175914
Fucking mad because almost nobody knew about the PC so there's few players around. As a mexican that whines here a lot about not having any tournaments of any kind this really made me mad.

If, hypothetically, I lived in a place with a lot (I mean, a lot) or parties, discos, good beaches, etc, and I'd be able to organize an MSS there, would you go there? In june-august.

>>32176488
Sure would.

>>32176488
As long as it's not a place where you're at heavy risk of getting mugged as soon as you go out of the venue it's fair game I guess. You only need to seek around players from the same area to see if it's viable to organize one.

>>32176488
Say where you are so we can tell you if there's a playerbase around or not you fucking retard.

>>32176442
Advertising and shilling your event is important. You'd be surprised at how many people don't go to stuff simply because they just don't know it exists in first place.

>>32176539
>>32176537
>>32176545
It would be in Ibiza.

>>32176545
Yeah exactly. As someone who whines and cries a lot about the circuit and lack of events it made me mad missing the event just because there wasn't information anywhere aside from two twitter posts. The fact that I only noticed there was an event because of /vp/ was really shocking.

>>32176554
You are fucked lad. I doubt people will go that far away, I wouldn't go even if I were a Spaniard.

>>32176564
Is PokeMex kill or something?

Also, why not try joining the organization-people somehow so you can do your part? That'd be much more productive than whining on /vp/ about it. Perhaps you could even try to organize stuff yourself. Not much that can be done this year, specially with the shitty circuit, but next year if things become better.

>>32176589
Well, I have some people who would come actually, spaniards tho, and some from here already. Maybe I'll really shill it when I get an actual date, and there is a place where you can get accommodation for 12€ at night.

>>32176589
Apparently it went under the water for some time or at least disappeared from the radar of many people due to low activity.

But let's see how it goes. It's in my interests and it would be really good to have a thriving community in the zone so hopefully we could have more tournaments, more streams and more stuff going on overall.

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>>32176628
If you have people already then just do it faggot. Make sure to shill properly, specially those such things like the accommodation that you just mentioned, that type of stuff are always big sellers considering traveling to events is always a money-drain. Make it big an attractive, perhaps an after-party thingy too considering how the place you mentioned is. I know how big the Spanish community is and how easily it is to entice them as long as you bait them properly.

>>32176652
iirc, aren't you from DF? That's where most Mexico events are at from what I've seen. Go to the Regional on June and try to talk to the big shots there and see what you can do.

Believe it or not there's a gorillion of VGC Facebook communities, I remember seeing a Mexico one there once. Look for that, there's a VGC Lationamerica one too. But really, check Facebook, you'd be surprised at how many people there. The same goes for Ibizabro.

>>32176679
Yeah, all the events are held there basically. And actually after realizing my mishap I started looking around for such groups and events.

Here praying TPCI will get their shit together and fix the circuit next season.

>>32176442
fuck right off