VGC Discussion General

First for Fini is best Tapu!

Fini is cute!
Fini is lovely!
Fini is my wife!
I love her!
Fini!!!!!!

>>30988705
Fini is actually my wife.

What gimmickmons are you using?

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Taunt
- Charm / Baby-Doll Eyes
- Helping Hand

Nobody expects the Charm/B-DE. Might run Synchronize just to fuck with the Porygon2s that run Toxic.

Please, no bully.

>>30988803
pyukumuku

>>30988803
I find it funny that there is at least a couple people that try to make Umbreon work in every format, but fail every single time.

Accept it, it's a singles shitmon.

>>30989040
I used it for a few weeks in VGC 2016. It's a really strong Pokémon that beats a lot of things one-on-one, but it just struggles to find a place on teams. It doesn't place much pressure on opponents and doesn't offer much support to your own Pokémon, it just refuses to die and does nice foul play damage.

http://pastebin.com/tx61Wbh7

Recommendations for last two? Considering just removing tr from mimikyu/making Muk adamant and adding two fast mons. I had Gigalith and Bulu but after losing to Kartana/Celesteela/odd Metagross over and over something was wrong.

>>30989094

it's setup bait

Guys, i tried playing rating battle spot doubles and encountered a trainer using mega gengar. Isn't megas not allowed to be used in this doubles format?

>>30988705
t. enosh sachar

>>30989131
depends on what your team is trying to accomplish, but the core looks okay. I think you might want one of the last two slots to carry a grass move to deal with gastrodon
I see scarf lele, so the mimikyu is there to reverse opposing trick room?

>>30989491
Yep. But I've noticed that Taunt does the job against P2 and Z-ghost does the job against Oranguru so I'm not too sure about it.

>>30989541
Wait, Oranguru is part normal I forgot about that. I barely see that things nowadays anyway.

Post your Battle Spot's WCS ladder points?

>1626

>>30989725
1500. Literally doing my first battle as we speak.

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>>30989094
>It's a really strong Pokémon that beats a lot of things one-on-one

Just like any stallmon?

>>30989479
Play Championships rules. Battle Spot doubles is a different thing.
You might need to download them using the PC in the festival plaza first.

What happened to Hoppip and/or Pyritie? Do they still do their thing?

>>30989850
Nah, that's only for battles with friends and other people.

>>30989874
Pretty sure Hoppip was doing a thing in these threads the other day

I think golduck is bad and people should shop using it.
>walled by gastrodon unless you run hp grass
>then you get walled by araquanid
>tapu koko is a thing
>so is bulu
there just aren't any good swift swimmers this year people

>>30989909
Every time Hoppip posts, he seems to get a reply telling him to go away and make his own thread.
I'm pretty sure it's just one guy being a cunt and thinking everybody agrees with him.

>>30990645
>Tapu Koko beats Golduck
When will this meme die?

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>>30990645
>Things has a counter in the metagame?
>Things is bad! Literally unusable! Who cares about all the other things it brings to the table! Something walls it so it's shit! SHIIIIIIT!

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>>30990645
>I think Tapu Fini is bad and people should shop using it.
>walled by gastrodon unless you run hp grass
>then you get walled by araquanid
>tapu koko is a thing
>so is bulu
>there just aren't any good Finis this year people

>>30990995
Fini isn't walled by gastrodon or araquanid.

>>30990705
>When will this meme die?
when water stops being weak to electric

>>30990869
golduck brings a base 95 special attack stat and nothing else if your opponent changes up the weather. I think there are better things to build a team around anon

>>30991027
>252+ SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 88 SpD Gastrodon: 76-91 (35 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>252+ SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Araquanid: 58-69 (33.1 - 39.4%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

Not like those numbers are any better

>>30990995
Ironically, Tapu Fini does great against rain thanks to calm mind. It also has a secondary typing that araquanid and gastrodon don't resist. Nice try though.

>>30991100
Meanwhile, gastrodon does 10% with scald and araquanid 25-30 with liquidation.

>>30991158
Same against Golduck though

>>30991079
>>when water stops being weak to electric
Good luck outspeeding Golduck under rain and not dying to it's rain-boosted water attacks, nerd.

>>30991079
>golduck brings a base 95 special attack stat
That's what the rain is for. That's what the Hydro Vortex is for.

You know who else has "underwhelming" base 95 sp atk? Kingdra. The premier rain sweeper.

>and nothing else if your opponent changes up the weather
Fair enough. Unlike other good swift swimmers who aren't available this year who can do good even outside rain. It has Disable for all it's worth though.

>I think there are better things to build a team around anon
Fair enough as well but only if you are referring to rain as an archetype. I disagree that teams are being built around Golduck and it's more of a "I wanna make a rain team and there's no good swift swimmers, welp, might as well use Golduck, it's the only half-decent one".

>>30989725
1484

>>30990869
>>30990995
So are you going to plague these threads from now on or something? Don't you have anything better to do?

>>30991898
I'm here to talk about VGC lad. What are you now? The reaction image police? Do you come here to search for Love Live pictures so you can complain about them? Also, I'm just the guy who posted the Nico picture.

>>30991079
>golduck brings a base 95 special attack stat and nothing else if your opponent changes up the weather
I think rain's pretty bad too but you could just as well be describing Kingdra. 95 and weather dependance is still playable. Especially in a limited format.

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>>30989725
Haven't been playing for a week now, maybe tomorrow I'll start playing again. I got into 1820 or so earlier with a Ninetales/Krookodile/Tapu Lele lead team but fell quite hard as you can see after the meta change.

>>30988803
I'm thinking of running a very bulky support Goodra. Basically all it's going to do is to spam feint and toxic shit like Porygon2 and Milotic.

I think feint is underrated right now, we're in a meta where a lot of mons carry multiple sets so there's often protect scouts (for example people protecting Garchomp against Lele to see if they have moonblast or not so they switch out the turn later). With feint you could catch stuff like that offguard and nuke away a slot.

>>30991935
Avatarfagging is against the rules

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>>30992103
>Using reaction images is avatarfagging now

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what's your favorite vgc year?

>>30992074
>I think feint is underrated right now,
There's like 3 viable users at all. It's more like non-existent rather than underrated so why prepare for something that you won't be seeing 99% of the time?

That said I'm using an A-Persian with Feint and it's fucking amazing 10/10 would recommend again. Fucking love this cat, he carries me so hard it's not even funny.

>>30992074
>I think feint is underrated right now
It is. I run this
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 236 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Fire Blast
- Feint

>>30992103
Maybe if it was just one person using them
Or if they were using just one character
Or if they used these pics for every post they make

>>30992249
How do you run your lasaga cat?

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>>30992581
Here you go.

Persian-Alola (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fur Coat
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Snarl
- Feint

I'm running it with CM Fini and DD Gyarados. They both love the Snarl and Fake Out for easier set-up and Gyarados also loves Feint to kill shit without worrying about Protect. Gyarados' Intimidate for physical bulk for both Fini and Persian is the cherry on top.

>>30992686
ive been using persian with my dd gyarados for awhile now and its been working great, so thumbs up.

>>30992686
I like the idea of persian and gyarados/arcanine to cycle parting shots, snarls, and intimidates.

>>30992765
Absolutely devilish. Imagine how good that would be with a Gothitelle.

>>30992765
is parting shot back on battlespot yet?

>>30989725
1596
This is like the third time I've reached 1596-1599.

>>30992798
Well, trapinch has arena trap, for what it's worth. Also feint.

>>30992800
Nope.

>>30992227
2013

>>30993091
So I guess the saving in the battle tree glitch is still there?

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>>30988803
I love gimmickmon/strats, and seeing the Clefairy/Eevee combo at San Jose made me wanna try it out myself. My idea is to have Clefairy help Eevee set-up with Extreme Evoboost, then Baton Pass out to Mimikyu and try to sweep. Here's what I have so far:

Eevee (M) @ Eevium Z
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Baton Pass
- Last Resort
- Protect
- Double-Edge

Clefairy (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Follow Me
- After You
- Protect
- Dazzling Gleam

Mimikyu (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Play Rough
- Leech Life
- Shadow Sneak

What would be good teammates for the last three slots? Trick Room support? Another sweeper in case Mimikyu is a bad match up? Someone with Stored Power for even more gimicky fun?

>>30995036
What the San Jose team did was have the 4 extra make up a non-eevee mode.

I'm I allowed to bring a notebook or piece of paper with anything written on it? Like strats or a type chart or the things my mons are weak too?

>>30997094
No. You can only take notes from your games.

>>30988803
Swagger, foul play, heal bell, moonlight/snarl

>>30991158
Sludge bomb gastrodon

http://pastebin.com/6eLvPg2a

Any opinions on what can be improved? I'm 11-5 with it so far but this record is starting from somewhere in the bottom-mid 1400s so I'm not sure how well this team will hold up as I climb higher (I'm assuming the majority of my future losses will be mostly due to decision making and not my team, still doesn't hurt to see if there's anything about the team itself that can be improved though.)

>>30992686
Can I get the Fini set? Not sure at all how to run her. Do you also use a lightning rod user alongside her and gyrados?

>>30997094
>2.5. Notes
>Players may take notes at any time during their match but must begin each match with a blank sheet. Lined, ruled, or grid paper are permitted. No written or printed aids, including type charts, are permitted in the play space.

Although the Worlds notepad I've been using for years has a Pikachu watermark on it. Don't tell Verlisify that I'm cheating.

>>30988705
Have a set for her?

>>30992227
The Pokémon that have been repped in most teams that reach the world finals are
1. Cresselia (7)
2. Thundurus (6)
3-6. Metagross, Kyogre, Tyranitar, Heatran (4)
7-11. Bronzong, Ludicolo Conkeldurr, Garchomp, Landorus (3)

I remember arguing with somebody on here a few weeks ago who thought that Garchomp is the single most overpowered and centralising Pokémon ever created..

gluttony figy muk-a is pretty good, right? why the hell is everyone on showdown either running a leftovers/black sludge powerofalchemy/poison touch muk-a tho?

>>30998920
The gluttony thing is definitely rising in popularity since it appeared on a few official streams. It is a bit less obvious for people who just looked at Muk and made up their own set though.
November's usage stats had 2.3% of Muks running Gluttony, I imagine December will be something like 30-40%.

>>30998920
They're retarded.
Figy berry is basically Eviolite as long as you can manage to proc the berry. Which is very easy with Gluttony...

>>30991208
>Disable
It also gets fast Encore, which is an even better tech for Doubles

While Rain isn't a good archetype to build a team around anymore, it's still a nice offensive mode to fall back on and provides good support for Fire-weak Mons, like Celesteela, Magnezone, and Tapu Bulu.

>>30998920
I never got why Power of Alchemy was the first pick for early-meta Muk-A. It's too damn situational.

Poison Touch, however, has its merits if you're running a more offensive Muk and your team doesn't have a lot of Status, like WoW Arcanine or Togedemaru.

Without a boosting item, Muk-A barely misses out on the OHKO bulkier builds of Tapu Koko and Tapu Lele, and defensive Marowak-A. BUT, it get's a 30% chance to KO with the additional 1/8 Max HP damage from getting Poisoned. With Poison Jab, this is afaik a 60% chance, because the roll for Poison Touch is independent from the effects of the move used.

>>30992227
fuck, I miss Tornadus-I

>>30998920
>>30998964
Poison Touch has merits, with almost all of Muk's STAB options you're looking at a 60% proc rate and it helps with fixed extra damage.

Actually I should see if it turns into bad poison with Poison Fang, it'd be a pretty great other STAB option for breaking walls apart.

There is literally nothing wrong with Black Sludge if you run Bulu as well because the HP recovery stacks up very easily and with how Protect is almost standard.

>>31000670
It's the shiny new toy effect.

I'm sure there is a really good use for it that just nobody has thought of yet.

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The classic hailroom couple (Jellicent and Abomasnow) aren't available in Sun & Moon, so if you had to guess, which two Pokémon would make the most viable hailroom in VGC 2017?

>>31001521
>tfw no jelliwak

What's your battlespot rating?
http://www.strawpoll.me/11948040

>>30992227
2011 was the best. Only new faces.

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>>30992227
So, is Cresselia the best VGC mon ever?

>>30992227
2013 followed by 2015

>>31001697
Yes that shit is pure support and has a ridiculous move pool to do so.... And bulk to be able to survive nukes.

>>31001697
STOP ICY WINDING ME REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

How would you guys run silvally/type null? I was thinking of fast special attacker for silvally with parting shot, but 95 base spa with no stab boost seems extremely underwhelming.

>>31001780
normalium z or choice band with explosion

eevium z banned from smogon ou doubles, is it good in vgc?

>>31001814
It's memey but not awful.

>>31001824
this
just use fake out

Why is umbreon, Vaporeon and espeon so underused currently?

>>31002028
they suq

>>31002028
Incinerator is vetter than umbreshit
Toxapex rekts /vp/orean autist
And Waifu Lele is based and pure , why use it over a slutty pink cat?

>>31002028
What would you even use them for?

>>31002028
umbreon doesn't have enough offensive presence, vaporeon is outclassed as a bulky water type and espeon is too frail

>>30992227
>Mostly non Japanese players every year
>Suddenly all nips in 2015
What the hell happened? Did everyone else refuse to use CHALK?

You get to choose one Pokémon that's not allowed in VGC2017 to return.

SAY ITS NAME

>>31002088
Tapu
I just killed 4 birds with one stone

Lads, what set is best for Gastrodon? I want to use my bro to its fullest potential.

>>31002088
I was going to say Amoonguss, but holy shit that would be cancer with all the trick room going around.

>>31002088
skipping ahead to 2018 and saying genies
genies were a mistake

>>31002088
salamence

>>31002098
>>31002164
>>31002165
That's not what he's asking, retards

>>31002088
Heatran

Is Pyritie still giving away?

>>31002330
fuck off

I really want to start vgc battling and I get most of it pans out, I just don't want to use the 6 same mons everyone does but I guess I'm "forced" to if I want to win. Anyways what is a good entry team or pokemon to begin revolving around?

>>31003152
If you really want to start battling then educate yourself. This year doesn't have a big 6/CHALK team, meaning that everyone is running different things and this is reflected in the tournaments, especially top cut
Heck, someone even won a tournament without using legendaries or UBs.

>>31002088
landorus BUT ONLY THE INCARNATE FORM
Life orb special attacking sheer force set is my all-time favorite VGC mon to run

>>31001521
The strongest available Blizzard user is Vanilluxe and Ninetales is on the opposite end of the speed spectrum.

So you'd be loooking at just a pair of fast special attackers if Ninetales or a Tailwind user if the Vanilluxe.

>>31002028
Umbreon has no offensive presence except in Eveeboost teams as a Psych Up user.

Vaporean is simply outclassed by Milotic, Politoed, Gastrodon and Fini for bulky water.

Espeon is probably the only one of them with some use.

>>31003430
>Lele + Landorus
>Ice Shard gets banned
2018 or whatever is going to be such a complete shitshow of absolutely no strategy and pure speed creep beatdowns.

>>31003616
>pair of fast special attackers
>Tailwind user

Do you actually know what hailroom is?

>>31003345
>then educate yourself
That's why I am asking
No legendaried or UB, now that's interesting, what is this person's name?

>>31003740
Gavin Michaels, I even got his team spread here

http://pastebin.com/SXCftnRa

>>31003651
terrain won't affect Lando 'cause it's flying.
Not that ice shard was ever common anyway,

>>31003664
Yes and I'm saying it doesn't fucking exist and that is all you have as a substitute.

Trick Room in the end is just a means of speed control so Tailwind is pretty much the same thing in a different flavour.

Unless you're planning to run no STAB Blizzard in TR then you may as well hit that forfeit button.

>>31003754
>hard trick room team
>no mental herb user
Did absolutely no one at San Jose run taunt?

>>31003801
You don't need herb. fake out is a way to get tr up.
And if they have taunt Lele, he has jolly z-ghost Mimikyu for it

>>31003800
...

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How long until I hit the wall and come tumbling all the way back down? Two games?

>>31004403
my wall be much lower

I've read rules changed and there's drama, what happened?

>>31004915
You literally can screen peek twice without any real punishment.

TRICK

If somehow they let the Island Scan mons to participate this year, who would be used (besides Aegislash)?

>>31005932
Azumarill and Hydreigon. Conkeldurr and Mamoswine would be pretty good too.

>>31004939
That part is only a guidline for judges, they can offer a more sever punishment for first time peeking if they want.
Still kinda bad the the guidlines are that lenient thoutgh.

>>31005932
Most of them really, almost all the Island Scan mons are excellent.

Kingdra, Aegislash, Hydreigon, Chandelure, Azumarill, Scolipede, Mamoswine, Rhydon, Staraptor, Togekiss, Serperior, Conkeldurr.

Every single one has something they could provide in this meta that would make them ridiculously powerful. To a lesser extent even Luxray, Roserade, Reuniclus, Typhlosion and Gothitelle could also do something too.

skipping dinner to keep this shit alive

>>30992686
what else are you running with fini gyarados and persian?

verlis a shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1CTzozP2XI&t=0s

Glicke's thoughts on new rules

>>31009295
>that video he posted on twitter against the rules

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Is it just me being very new to the meta or is this year very hard to get into? I can't seem to have success at all with any team that I try despite them being well balanced. Trying out new things and making my own teams doesn't seem to do much either. I didn't have this problem with VGC15 nor 16, for the record. In fact, in both of those I was easily able to climb up to the 1750s in Battlespot with my own teams.

It's very discouraging that I can't enjoy the format everyone was looking forward to due to me losing against most people (aka losing against non-scrubs). I know I suck, but this is the first time that I feel this way.

Should I just wait until more events happen so I have more options to try and find my playstyle this season? In VGC15 I loved playing with M-Gardevoir, Sand and M-Metagross teams. In VGC16 I loved double Primals and Yveltal. In this one I don't really know since everything I've tried doesn't click with me.

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>>31010715
People have gotten gudder in general that's what happened.

If you just wait doing nothing you might get rusty.

>>31010715
This format is more similar to 2012 and 2013. 6th gen as a whole was very different and more offensive/focused on leads.

It seems that many people who started in 6th gen are having trouble.

>>31010715
At least for me it's always hard to start playing in a new metagame (now it's harder since I skipped the entirety of ORAS so I'm very rusty in terms of knowledge) but I always seem to get better by just playing a lot, getting to know the main threats in the meta, and adjusting my team a lot so I can do better. It can be frustrating to lose a lot but don't give up now!, there is plenty of time to get better.

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>>31010715
The "pick a mega and build your team around it" clutch is gone, offense levels have gone down tons too in general. You have to play more careful rather than press nuke, take at minimum half of whatever takes the hits HP.

Things are nowhere as match-up based either as during those times, specially VGC16, where a bad lead meant doom. That so many of previous years options are completely out does not help either as so many old and ready to go archetypes and teambuilding styles have been completely gutted, for example, weather teams.

In short, you are out of your comfort zone with having to adapt to a completely different style of play after 3 years of one.

Play a fuckton, test everything, sooner or later you'll find something you feel comfortable with.

>>31010821
I'm already rusty as fuck anyway, since literally my only way of playing VGC is doing so on Battlespot or Showdown (but I ain't playing there), and it's been like, what, four months since they took off the VGC ladder on ORAS Battlespot?

>>31010843
>>31010862
>>31011003
It's kind of hard to keep playing since once you go lower than 1450, you won't find opponents that often, and my friends are all casual. I really don't want to play on Showdown, so I guess I'll have to buy a physical game so I can reset my rating every once in a while. That, or wait until the next BS season.

>>31011158
>(but I ain't playing there)
>I really don't want to play on Showdown
You'll stay behind forever then. Showdown is by far and wide the best place to grind exp and test shit. Suck it up and get on there.

>>31011185
I don't know, I've heard it's bugged as shit with the new mechanics, so that's a big turn down for me, not to mention that for some reason I would choke on simple plays a lot in there when I was practicing VGC16 in February.

Also, where are my manners. Thank you all for your input.

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What do you call this hairstyle?

>>31013100
The no dignity and I'm desperate to hold to my youth hairstyle.

I promised myself I'd start shaving everything.

>>31013100
balding

>>31011158
Honestly I had the same issue.
Just steal a team until you get a foothold.

>>31013153
>>31013664
At least from that angle it still looks relatively acceptable. Unless it's obviously super thinning and combed over, it's not quite at "shave it all" just yet.

ded

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i'm a retard when it comes to vgc but i want to get into it, threw this team together in showdown to try my luck
https://hastebin.com/bocodajaka.diff

anything i should replace to patch it up? i've been considering a slow special attacker (torkoal maybe?) to aid with intimidate troubles but golisopod and marowak just do so much work in and out of TR, even with intimidate slapped on them

i'm finding lele to rarely ever be a help to the team even with the massive damage psychic attacks, though maybe i'm doing something wrong

>>31016413
what the fuck is that garchomp set

>>31016436
something that a VGC friend recommended, told me sashchomp was standard which at first confused me (and still does somewhat)
should i change it?

>>31016456
Sashchomp is fairly standard (but far from universal!), but mixed is weird and it should have protect.

>>31016456
i see, pretty much the reasoning for each move is:
draco: hits decently hard while also bypassing intimidate
earthquake: earthquake
blast: celesteela threatening
poison jab: tapus

which move should i remove? they've all served well and i'm having trouble deciding between keeping blast and jab

what of the rest of the team btw? i'm aware that goliso and lele don't work together at all but am unsure what would better fill lele's spot

>>31016572
Uninvested fire blast doesn't really make sense at all since Celesteela usually runs enough special bulk that with 252 atk fire fang does more.

I'm not sure about who should replace lele. are there any pokemon you have trouble dealing with? alternatively, maybe replace Golisopod with Araquanid?

>>31016733
araquanid i have considered and tried, but the priority abuse that goliso has is more appealing than the raw. plus emergency exit allows for some good slow switches after attacking, and it still hits incredibly hard

i'll probably replace blast for protect, since whenever celesteela is out i find myself making chomp hit the other mon anyway

what mons would you recommend over lele? i'm having troubles thinking of some other special hitter to take it's spot without increasing my electric worries

>>31016845
Removing lele at all is going to increase your electric worries since you have no way of removing electric terrain.
Maybe... Nihilego?

Does anyone know the standard Arcanine set for this format? I'm kinda curious about the EV spread.

>>31016978
There is no standard. Just put some EVs in some stats and see how it goes.

>>31016572
If you're going 4 attacks on Garchomp it's better to just slap the Assault Vest on it, else run Protect as they already recommended to you. If you're taking Lele out, maybe you can get the Z-Ground Crystal on it and have a Z-Move not everyone covers for, while adding flexibility and value to your Earthquake slot.

I think the reason Lele isn't impactful is because your team doesn't need more offensive mons. Torkoal sounds like a nice replacement, but as >>31016945 pointed you need someone to swap terrains too. Maybe a bulky Bulu would work to reinforce your slow mons, gain some resistance to electric while keeping water on check.

My two cents. Food for thought more than anything.

>>31016945
>>31017085
i'll definitely try these sometime, bulu especially seems like it could work alright
any recommended set for bulu or nihilego? in bulu's case, what of the EVs besides HP?

>>31017148
also about the team in general, is there anything of concern about the other mons? so far they've all been working well and doing their jobs nicely but i fear as i get further up the showdown ladder the potential weaknesses will only get more and more hindering

>>31013100
fresh as fuck my nigga don't diss on the homeboy

>>31017201
faggot

>>31017253
>must save the battle video after
why tho

>>31017391
It stops you from changing the team between battles.

>>31017397
won't it often be obvious when you change an item or swap out a mon for an EV spread change?

>>31017400
b-but i dindu nuffin! i a gud boi!

>>31017408
Not if the change happens between sets, so no person observes multiple sets.

I haven't played SM in a while, but I've been wondering about unpopular strategies. How come this move isn't used often? I'm sure there's a way to make this work: Soak

>>31017860
You obviously didn't watch the most recent regional. Or maybe it was the European one, but someone teched soak on their golduck so they could OHKO things with Wood hammer. He only did it once that match but that was all he needed to get rid of porygon2

>>31017900
Wasn't it fini with soak?

>>31017900
>>31017916
It was Tapu Fini with Soak that let Bulu OHKO it with Wood Hammer

>>31011003
>Things are nowhere as match-up based either as during those times, specially VGC16, where a bad lead meant doom
the meta may not be as streamlined as it was last year, but lead matchup and turn 1 reads are still extremely crucial as of now.

>>31017916
>>31017930
That's right, my bad. I obviously have a shitty memory and putting soak on golduck makes more sense to me then putting it on a fini.

https://twitter.com/Yejiang_CHN/status/812946285653159936
This is the team at the top of battlespot and the first to get >2000 points.

>>31018666
Nice, its almost the same core on the top smogon vgc2017 team as well.

Is this due to lack of strong wideguard pokemon?

>>31018689
>top smogon vgc2017 team
The what?

>>31018702
don't remember his name, but the top player in PS vgc 2017 ladder has the same core of kommo-o, tapu fini, and vanilluxe.

File: #1 team on the VGC17 showdown ladder (december 2016).png (104KB, 568x382px) Image search: [Google]

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>>31018666
>>31018689
>>31018702
>>31018721

>>31018854
Apparently that guy is a friend of the He guy

>>31018666
Why Bulletproof on Kommo-O?

You'd think Soundproof could help with those Snarls more than avoiding a Shadow Ball

>>31018854
What I like about this team (and the other one with Maro over Mimi) is that it shows that a team can be good without any speed control what so ever.
Hopefully this 'you must have speedcontrol' meme can finally die

>>31018666
>All those super inaccurate moves, Focus Miss, Sheer Cold, Meteor Miss
>Nobody on battlespot runs Wide Guard
Holy shit what the fuck is wrong with this meta?

I use a very similar team in terms of the pokemon but the movesets and spread are almost like a parody of babbies first team.

>>31019178
I'd argue even Overcoat is better to avoid chip damage from his own Hail. All I can see Bulletproof blocking of note is Energy Ball and Shadow Ball and only the former gets usage.

>>31019712
>sheer cold
oh fuck, I somehow didn't notice that
I think that's mostly because Vanilluxe has a godawful movepool, the only other options are water pulse or a status move.

>>31019712
Well Sheer Cold is certainly filler or used as a last resort if you feel like there's no other options wich is ok for a chance at victories you otherwise would have zero chance of having.

Meteor is 90 that's not that miss tho.

Focus Miss if you notice is used as the Z-Move so it won't miss at least the first time, after that you have other options If you are that scared I guess

Overcoat to avoid the chip damage sounds nice too but in the end in this meta there's little advantage to Komoo-o's abilities. Another point I'd have for Soundproof is that if there's the rare chance this dragon gets more use you can block opposing Clanging Scales.

>>31019818
Soundproof also block's his marowak's perish song.

>>31019861
That's kinda big. Maybe the other guy got it wrong when writing then?

>>31019818
>Another point I'd have for Soundproof is that if there's the rare chance this dragon gets more use you can block opposing Clanging Scales.
The point wasn't that Overcoat is good but that Bulletproof is a trash ability. Especially when you consider this guy runs a pure special Kommo-O and occasionally swaps in a Perish Song Marowak.

Soundproof is far more useful here being able to block him killing himself, Snarl, other Kommo-O, Parting Shot.

>>31019904
>t. sub 1100 shitter mad and jelly at number 1 rankets

>>31019914
I dunno about you but with everything we've been saying here it would make more sense to use Soundproof

>>31019384
>is that it shows that a team can be good without any speed control what so ever.
It shows the opposite if anything.

Pay closer attention Bullet Punch, Trick Room, Shadow Sneak are present. Plus Snorlax there is basically the slow option in a slow/fast setup.

All the basic elements are still there.

i have been using this team at my local scene and showdown ladder and im being pretty comfortable with it, the thing is im changing the 6th team member (Right now its Scizor), any recommendations or recommended 6th mon for the team?

http://pastebin.com/90H7bJe4

>>31020123
I wouldn't use wide guard on celesteela

>>31020073
The non-mimikyu version has only BP, a scarf and fat slow mon. These aren't control options like tailwind, icy wind etc.

>>31021087
how?

>>31021599
They aren't dictating the pace, just acting as options for or answers to the opponent doing so

>>31018854
Why is Vanilluxe used so often? I thought /VP/ says that Vanilluxe sucks as a hail team sweeper?

pew

>>31021729
it hits harder than ninetales

What sound moves are used in this year's vgc?

>>31003616
Bruh just run scarf vanilluxe. The number 1 team on smog on VGC runs it

How gimmicky does rototiller mudsdale paired with bulu and kartana sound?

>>31024659
If you have to ask if your special snowflake gimmick is "good" then you already have your answer.

>>31024512
I've seen few drampas with hypervoice, but nothing more.

File: 1478437911826.png (701KB, 874x900px) Image search: [Google]

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how viable is this cutie

So planning to enter in a local tournament soon. You guys think they care if I enter with a blatantly injected shiny Porygon2 with beastball and other blatantly injected pokemons?

>>31027077
Not

>>31027108
The judges probably won't, but it's almost guaranteed you'll encounter some autistic sperg who'll yell at you about it if they notice.

Obligatory "Are they using Porygon2 because of Z-Conversion?" post.

>>31027077
It's main gimmick is double leaf storm boost with Oranguru. Not much. It only works with certain conditions.

>>31027331
Contrary also stops intimidate if you wanna go physical. I just think it takes low billing in terms of strong grass types when Bulu takes almost all the cake and Tsareena (Queenly Majesty is great) eats what's left.

>>31027184
>>31027331
would I be wasting my time breeding a physical one
hoping move tutors will be able to teach it super power or something

>>31027227
>The judges probably won't, but it's almost guaranteed you'll encounter some autistic sperg who'll yell at you about it if they notice.


Heaven forbid someone would care about a competitor playing by the rules. Wow, what a faggot!

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>>31027381
the judges aren't going to care unless you're using illegal movesets or your hacking was shit and got picked up by the ingame checks

you got your answer, nobody cares about whether or not you think it's "right" or not

>>31027381
Í bet you blame your losses on hackers too.

File: ;^).jpg (139KB, 1276x773px) Image search: [Google]

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>>31027373

http://pastebin.com/9V5nTN0y

I need help with EV spreads, I'm fucking terrible at them. I think the rest of the team is solid aside from me constantly getting outplayed

>>31027899
For Muk, try using Wolfe's spread first. It's Adamant 252 HP / 44 Atk / 108 Def / 100 SpD / 4 Spe.

Not sure about Porygon since pretty much everyone runs a different spread.

>>31027414
Well after the updated rules, they have to care about illegal balls now sadly. Lord forbid an aesthetic makes some autist sperg out in a killing frenzy.

>>31028437
they caught the autists trying to go on a killing spree before and I'm sure they'll get caught again

>>31027108
The rules actually got updated to say that porygon2 has to be in a pokeball, amusingly.
But if you don't do that you'll be fine.

File: le not Monferno face.jpg (193KB, 585x975px) Image search: [Google]

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Who's your favorite VGC player?

>>31029992
i feel bad for sejun, i really do. pachirisu was a smart meta call and it has been degenerated to "muh diversity!!!!" by karenfags and verlis.

>>30988803
Palossand @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ice]

it's surprisignly good in TR. shadowball 2hkos like everything and earth power gets surprise KOs on Marowak and Muk (which it underspeeds :] )

>>31030034
Sejun is actually a huge troll if you pay attention to the things he posts. He probably thinks it's funny.

>>31030096
yeah ik. i'm glad he has a good sense of humor about it. i admire his work ethic for learning English too.

>>31030034
Agreed. Some people don't know what "meta" means desu.

>>31030096
This. He doesn't give a fuck. He has peaked.

He won at the arguably peak of VGC in both viewers and players. He'll most likely be the most remembered VGC champion too because of the shitty squirrel as well.

All that's left to do for him is to win TCG too and be done with it.

>>31030167
Alas, if only people who actually knew about competitive were the ones talking about competitive. The world would be such a much better places.

>>31030413
Sejun's been a troll forever, that's not what they meant. If you think he started "not caring" because he won Worlds you are retarded.

http://pastebin.com/89dzH4sm
I need something to replace Nihilego.
I have a lot of trouble with Gyarados, so I'm thinking Koko maybe?

>>31018666
>Modest Kommo-O
This is mildly shocking to me. I'm a singlesfag and a shitter, though.
I might just steal that "top team" to try it out. That contains three of my favorite Pokemon, so I'm happy to see it. My love of Vanilluxe won't fail me!

Can somebody with a deeper knowledge of speed tiers explain to me why Timid Scarf over Modest Scarf? What are the relevant things it would lose out on checking?

What if I just list my favorite pokemon that are vgc legal? Because I can't fucking decide what team I want to make for the life of me. When i try making a meta team it falls flat on its face and I don't have fun with it. When I try using my favorites it sucks. I just want to have fun and at least be SOMEWHAT competant

>>31031818
Sure, why not. I can only think of other water types to deal with gyarados, like milotic or gastodon. You're missing 4 evs on kartana. You could try roar on arcanine, or maybe even helping hand.

>>31032213
Timid outspeeds koko.

>>31032512
Just go netdeck somebody's team and use that.

>>31032669
I tried that but my friends started ripping on me for that.

>>31032669
Would you suggest maining mimikyu or marowak on that top on battlespot team?

>>31032697
Your friends are dumb.

>>31032746
I have no idea how it plays, but just from a glance, marowak. No real answer to celesteela otherwise.

>>31032746
If you have no answer to celesteela or magnezone marowak is a choice pick. He picks up some sick ass ohko's at neutral damage too.

>>31029992
Sejun is one of my favs for sure.
Both Randy Kwa and Barry Anderson were a big source of inspiration when I started playing VGC back in 2013.
Wolfe, Boyt and Ryosuke are nice too.

is anyone using Scizor on their team?

>>31033447
why not assault vest or groundium z?

Omg i think i just came up with an anti meta set
Will do testing tomorrow
Fucking finally, i knew i had it in me

>>31033447
>Yache
What's this? Gen 4? Roseli is better right now.

Also >>31033487 these. Scarf is an option too.

>>31034407
porgon2 gigalith

Tell me why Seaking doesn't have potential. Lightningrod might be useless for boosts but it can at least protect your team, plus it has access to poison jab, waterfall and can hide behind a sub. Can only think of shit defense and speed but that could be remedied with some support right?

>>31034836
that and the Saffron City post look like the best sources for articles/reports.

>>31034994
Are you sure it didn't miss?

>>31034994
Prankster doesn't work against dark types anymore.

>>31034720
Stats are all around bad
I've played with it and against it and it's not that bad, it just isn't as powerful, bulky or difficult to counter as things like Politoed, Tapu Fini, Milotic etc.

http://nuggetbridge.com/news/nugget-bridge-update/
>Like most competitive Pokemon players, and most of the world, we’d prefer if 2016 never happened and we’re going to pretend it didn’t. More
kek

>>31035595
>They went back to the old format
Neat.

huh

>>31037704
hm?

>>31035075
It's not like you can't use priority, I fell into the trap of not using it because I figured it was nerfed into the ground.

Just best to fuck the noise and keep using it but just tweak your team to collectively shit on Muk and Lele at every moment possible so you can freely use priority, because hardly anyone else will be.

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are all matches in a VGC tournament Bo3?
wondering since showdown only ever has the option for just one battle per tournament match or ladder match but i don't want to commit to getting my sets on cart yet until i'm confident enough that it's as good as it'll get

>>31038325
>are all matches in a VGC tournament Bo3?
Yes.
Battlespot is Bo1 though

>>31038332
i had a feeling that'd be the case with battle spot

how much of a difference do the mindgames of team selection make on games 2 and 3? seems like something i'd need to get used to as well as note taking

do many people here practice on showdown?

>>31038332
I heard last year some small tournaments were Bo1

Protect failing on its third turn of being used when? I've lost to that shit twice.

What pokemon should I use with a A-Marowak Celesteela core?

>>31039355
P2.

>>31039414
Trick Room?

>>31039355
Add Discharge Koko, so you can hit Gyarados, Milotic and Aquaranid.

>>31039486
Yeah, could be. It can be whatever you need it to do since it's so versatile.

>>31039907
Can it be fast?

>>31039764
>>31039907

http://pastebin.com/cyGbKCaK
Is this good?

>>31040661
Doesn't look bad, actually. You might want to change Chomp's item though. Focus Sash, Assault Vest or even Roseli Berry could work.

So anyone else here signed up for the Smogon tourney? Are you ready for it?

>>31040754
>smogon

Nah. The prices are meaningless to me as well, since we don't get events here.

>>31040789
Then pay a plane ticket for somewhere with the prize, dummy

>>31038682
In Premier Challenges and regionals it's up to the organiser if it's BO1 or BO3.
There's a quite rapid movement towards everything being BO3 though.

>>31040754
>NB gets hacked
>Smogon organize a VGC tourney asap
>"coincidence"

>>31040789
Whoops, stupid Edge. Meant to write prizes.

>>31040808
I have work. Can't leave to another country just for Pokemon.

>>31040865
What's your point?

>>31040900
that Trainertower hacked NB

>>31040900
They're trying to get everyone on their shitty website.

>>31040900
NB is probably closing down, nothing to "think about" as they claim on their article. I think they NB and Smogon will merge or something, with the NB members taking care of VGC stuff there.

>>31040967
Still better than NB shitty revamp which is what killed their site. The hack was just kicking the already dead horse.

>>31040742
I noticed the P2 doesn't really do much. Should I use Oranguru instead?

>>31040999
I'd rather have an entire site for a VGC community than a little corner if a site that goes against everything VGC stands for.

>>31041013
Oranguru will do even less.

File: 1482664973003.jpg (47KB, 573x681px) Image search: [Google]

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>>31041056
>a site that goes against everything VGC stands for.

>>31041082
Nenecchi a shit

>>31041013
What exactly are you trying to do with it in your games?

>>31041056
I would love to hear you expanded thoughts on that.

The crossover between Smogon and VGC is huge, they really are incredibly similar communities.
I honestly think one of the more harmful things to VGC was trying to centralize it on a singular site. NB pushes itself out as the VGC community when really it wasn't that dominant, I still find it to be in poor form for the VGC room on ps to actually just be the NB room.
I've long found the Japanese system for GBU/BS stuff to be more comendable. What we currently have with VGC Twitter, a handful of blogs, Trainer Tower and a few others is a huge step towards improvement in my eyes.

>>31041562
do you not know that nb originally broke off from smogon due to staff disputes and smogon not really wanting to do vgc stuff?

>>31041590
Which makes me think Smogon and NB will merge. Smogon seems to be welcoming VGC stuff right now.

>>31041590
Explain further

>>31041282
Set up trick room and do damage

>>31041731
Literally only because it will bring more traffic. They still don't like VGC.

>>31041956
Of course they don't like it, if they did, they'd incorporate things like Item Clause or Level 50 to their standard rules since those are rules that would help the singles meta. Yet they're organizing a VGC tournament because they're now grown people (still spergs, like 3/4 of their community) that can take decisions based on income/benefits rather than "just because I don't like it".

>>31041740
There isn't much to explain.

Another issue is that well... People here seem to only dislike smogon for their formats ("they banned my bros!" "sneaky pebbles!" etc) but the forum community has historically been far worse than NB ever was and not exactly a good place to interact with tpci.

I am inclined to believe that had more influence for the split than anything about official vs unofficial formats.

it's hard to remember specific details cause it was so long ago when this all happened.

>>31042027
>I am inclined to believe that had more influence for the split than anything about official vs unofficial formats.
This is still true to some of smogon population.

Basically it goes "6v6 is how pokemon was meant to play from the start" to "doubles are boring". The former are more prevalent, and talk like either conservatists or purists.

Is that team with Fini and vanilluxe really number one on battle spot? How the fuck does it work?

>>31041740
>VGC started becoming a proper thing around gen 5
>people on Smogon wanted the site to put heavy attention on it for obvious reasons
>rest of Smogon said "hurr why play that" or ignored it
>VGC players then forced to get as far away from Smogon as possible
>NB is born
The situation has barely improved

>>31041876
Try to have a more defensive approach with him (aka use it more as a wall/annoying mon than a damage dealer) instead. Don't rely on him to pick up KOs.

That's all the advice I can give you unfortunately, since I haven't used P2 that much on this format.

>>31042071
You misunderstood. I was referring to the community being shit in general, not relating to any sort of "which format is better" debate.
People complain about NB being a circle jerk/clique but smogon is honestly worse.

>>31042145
Well, no community is good. They all put their epeens/elo/personality standing before any discussion, which is sad. /vp/ is ironically better than those places as a discussion board.

>>31042172
it's generally up to the TO

Is lapras good? I remember it being useful in 14

>>31040653
Yes, agility

>>31042550
Clefable works with both your purposes, so I'd start with it. Change it if it doesn't work.

>>31042550
Koko :^)

I'm still shit at this year's vgc and have yet to come up with a decent team. Try to tell me why my team isn't good and what i can improve on pls.

http://pastebin.com/hxCe5XRf

(The ev spreads don't have any thought put behind them yet, other than mudsdale, who can tank a specs lele psychic)

>>31042671
Clefable will indeed do that, but Alolan Muk will say hi to Oranguru too, and will deal against Hariyama ok, and I consider it to be the main problem regardless of who you choose. But other than Muk, who would you fear from the types you'd be weak to?

>>31042721
I'll add that this is just my latest "I'm out of ideas" gimmick fest.

>>31042833
So if we add this to this
>maybe it would be best to round out the team with an intimidate user
you're thinking of Arcanine. Scares steels, has Intimidate, deals with Celesteela, and while it has no redirection, we know what Intimidate+Snarl can accomplish.

It won't solve ADugtrio, but as you said, it's rare.

New thread:
>>31042880

>>31042721
I would replace Ninetales with something, the team already has enough frail Pokemon and Lapras already covers ice and beating weather teams