VGC17 General /vgc17/

can someone explain to me how the point system works? do "leagues" give points or only big tournaments?

What are you guys running on celesteela?

>>30272612
Adamant
Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed I think
-Heavy Slam
-Leech Seed
-Wide Guard
-Protect

It could definitely be better but it has been getting the job done pretty nicely.

>>30273391
so beast boost will boost celesteela's attack?

>watch WolfeyVGC and Cybertron
>verlisify keeps showing up in my homepage

>>30273937
Because Verlisify has nothing else to do but rants about them. The cancer is everywhere

>>30273914
Yes

What's going to be the best nature on Pheromosa?

http://pastebin.com/G0Esqj4K

How's my team so far?

>>30272216
Giveaways when

>>30272596
As of last year (there's been a bit of a shake up), you had
Premier Challenges: Usually held at card game shops or by members of the VGC community, usually around 20 players, max 40 points
Regionals: Big events held by TPCI (in America, anyway. In Europe they're organised by particularly dedicated PC organisers with a small amount of funding), usually around 100 players, max 120 points
Nationals: The biggest events, held by TPCI, usually around 500 players, max 400 points


Could be wrong on the numbers, but that's about the right order of magnitude.
This year they've removed Nationals and added in things like International Championships and Continental Championships which are the same sort of thing, and changed some of the point allocations around.

>>30273964
The sad thing is, he probably gets more hits for his dumb trolling than he did for any attempt at actually playing competitively.

Why do some people run a TR pokemon on their team if the team isn't based around TR?

>>30272216
I cant find a good team,what pokemon is a good start to base around?

Reminder that the best players use Decidueye

>>30275776
To counter trick room

>>30275892
How is he even useful?

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Using my edgy mon in edgy video game format.

Nothin personell kids

Is Spotlight actually usable? And how does it work anyway?

Is razor leaf good on Kartana? I ran it on a scarf set on VGC 17 Showdown and it felt like it was doing a little less than M-Salamence's Hyper voice.

>>30275962
Blocks Fake Out

Most powerful Spook Z Move

>>30272216
Need a special attacker than can cleanly kill both Bulu and Garchomp. Ideas?

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>>30275782
Take your pick.

>>30276438
>trevenant
>lanturn
What?

>>30276438
>Drampa
>A-Muk
>Xurkitree
Can someone explain these? A-Muk seems like its for Tapus but I'm not sure.

>>30276461
Trevenant - offensive trickr oom setter that is immune to Fake Out

Lanturn - Very good pokemon, used for its typing and volt absorb, does higher damage than people expect, used because Rotom-W isn't legal

>>30276510
Drampa - Used on trick room teams
A-Muk - where are you even at my nigga? one of the most popular pokemon in the entire meta right now. One-shots all Tapus

Xurkitree - on about every 10th team in the top 50, used for electric attacks if tapu koko is for some reason not on the team

What's a good counter to Nihilego?
I was thinking of surprising people with an Earth Power Archeops but funnily enough it doesn't manage to get the OHKO.

>>30276675
why would you attack something non-STAB on its 130 special defense stat you fool

>>30276721
M-Muh x4..

>>30276675
Any ground type.
Scarf Lele.

Any advice on my team?
http://pastebin.com/g0vS8twq

>>30276438
What moves is everyone running on A-Marowak?
I was thinking of using:

A-Marowak
Lightning Rod@ Adamant / Thick Club
252 HP/252 ATT/ 4 SpDef
-Flare Blitz
-Shadow Bone
-Flame Charge?
-Bonemerang?

Other moves I was considering are Protect WoW Bulldoze and Rock slide/Stone edge

>>30276938
Shadow Bone
Bonemerange
Flare Blitz
Protect

>>30276675
kartana
>>30276510
>A-Muk
one-shots all tapus, checks A-marowak, 3 decent abilities to choose from, takes half damage from EQ thanks to bulu.
>>30276808
>sash gyara
lol
>Porygon2
should run eviolite. not enough taunt users and your only support move is TR, which I'm assuming is to counter other TR because your team is too fast for it.
>physical offensive celesteela
>celesteela with EQ
lol. drop EQ for protect and invest your attack into defenses.
>speed garchomp
lol

>>30277300
>lol. drop EQ for protect and invest your attack into defenses.
So invest 252 evs to both hp and defend?

>>30277300
>kartana
>good

>>30277339
Swords Dance Focus Sash is a fun,although really gimmicky set I use.

so I didnt play competitive in 2016 because I hate legendary/primal meta. Decided that only alola dex is worth so I started thinking about my team:

I relly want to try electric terrain so my thought so far:

>Electric tapu duh
>new hippy raichu as an offensive attacker
>mimikyu; pleople are running an offensive variant but maybe its worth considerind a defensive one
>whimsicott prankster bro is always good

I need to find two more aditions that benefit electric terrain, counters tr and may work well without the weather

>>30276461
>>30276510
If I remember correctly, that image is just all the Pokémon used by the top ten players on the Showdown ladder as of a few days ago, not the top Pokémon by usage
The fact that people are doing well with gimmicky trash like Decidueye and Drampa coming highly is a good sign for the metagame potentially being well-balanced though.

>>30277300
>>speed garchomp
>lol
?

>>30277397
I'm guessing he's just an idiot. Garchomp being Jolly 252 Atk 252 Spe is possibly the single Pokémon with the least variation in its EV spread.

Although it could be argued that investing less in speed is more viable now that it doesn't have to worry about M-Kangaskhan, Charizard, Zapdos etc.

>>30277460
Is the rest of his advice bullshit then?

>>30277379
That's basically the list of things I've prepped on-cartridge so far. Tapu Koko + Raichu is powerful but has counters (just like Drizzle+Swift Swim always did).
Prankster moves now fail when used against Dark-types, just so you know.
Mimikyu has a lot of gimmick potential but isn't that incredible.
You sound like you want to avoid standard Pokémon, but honestly when you're just making a team it's best to fill in empty slots with safe powerhouses like Garchomp, Gyarados, Celesteela etc. Politoed could serve you well, and Oranguru usually comes in useful on any team.

guys, should i go max hp, atk adamant celesteela or either mixed or defensive?

>>30277536
Also need to know this.

>>30277466
Not really. I have seen Sash Gyarados work well, but Lum Berry, Sitrus Berry, Life Orb, Wacan Berry etc. are good too.
Porygon2 should always be Eviolite.
I've seen a lot done with Celesteela, but with Leech Seed and Leftovers you definitely want protect. Not sure on EVs, but if you're going to run Wide Guard, Protect and Leech Seed, defences make sense. Or keep the EVs as they are and have it run more offensively. Trying to be offensive and also support with Leech Seed/Wide Guard just sacrifices its effectiveness at both.

>>30277587
My celesteela is max hp, atk evs, adamant nature with leech seed, heavy slam, protect and wide guard as its moves, i plan to put flamethrower for celesteela though

What's a good counter to Mudsdale? Preferably special attacker to get around it's Stamina ability

>>30276808
I tried a similar Porygon2, that thing is only bulky with Eviolite, otherwise it drops to 25% health very fast.

Even the Z-Conversion variant isn't good.

Got Bulu, A-marowak, Gyarados so far. Was thinking A-Muk and maybe Magnezone but anyone else get any ideas for the rest of the team?

How can I improve my team?. I'm ohgeezohgeez: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-484349417
Also thanks rnjesus.

>>30277840
>almost exact same team I'm building
spoopy

>>30277840
If he wouldn't have switched out Gyara for the sake of his Torkoal gimmick he could have won.

>>30277944
I know I don't deny I'm a shittier. That's why I'm asking for help. If he had realized that doubles isn't singles then yeah he would have won.

Alternatively I'm working on a koko, pelipper, a-marowak core that needs a more team mates.
>>30277912
What are you working on?

so its my first time team building, since its the first days of the meta i want to use something with mons i like to practice a bit, but i dont really get the hang out of synergy and EV distributions. Can you give me advice on partners and things i should be keeping in mind while EVing those pokemon?

this is the team so far
>Scizor
>Tapu Fini
>Garchomp

>>30278030
>Scizor
go bulky on scizor with lefties. Moves can be feint (against protect), bug bite, bullet punch and last depending on your choice. That is actually my vgc '16 build for scizor.

>>30278007
Marowak/Fini/Celesteela/Ninetales/Garchomp/Porygon2
Haven't really hammered out the EV spreads and such though.

>>30278078
bug bite is a tutor move i think, and last move maybe swords dance to multiply damage

>>30278115
yea, u can swap another bug type move for that bugbite. That bug bite was initially used to deal with cresselia back then.

>>30278030
Scizor's movepool is really lacklustre right now

>>30278141
what things should i aim to bulk in this year's meta? and what thinks can scizor check?

Modest or Timid for Alolachu?

>>30278109
I'm going to try
Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 4 SpA / 124 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Air Slash
- Giga Drain
- Fire Blast
>>30278195
the tapus if you don't use priority moves i suppose.

>>30276675
Literally any Steel type ever.

It has virtually no coverage against Steel long as long it isn't weak to Elec.

>>30278195
potential physical hitters such as salamence, flygon, celesteela, tapu bulu, araquanid. Scizor can deal with the tapus, oranguru, minior and so on.

>>30278263
best team mates for him?

>>30278223
this moveset seems good but to me its better to use celesteena for its wide guard and leech seed utility.

>>30278263
don't lump my battleship waifu with those one trick pony, she's a mixed threat.
>>30278304
I'm not much for stall. It's not ho given that i have nothing invested in attacking stats. Fini is a fatty feeding heal pulses, a-marowak keeps the pesky lightning away. I'm trying again at a dual core team here's what I have:

http://pastebin.com/pHZK5TpF
Koko/Pelipper cancer. With hotswaps where necessary.

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>>30277379
>he fell for the koko raichu meme

>>30278363
can you give me a legitimate reason to use tapu fini? I can't seem to find her anywhere useful compare to the other tapus

>>30278466
Bulky as fuck, good movepool.

>>30278466
water/fairy is amazing typing

>>30275920
this
remember Arash's 2013 worlds winning team?

>>30278466
Status prevention.

If you don't care about that, just use Milotic.

>>30278517
The one that forced Game Freak to nerf Powder moves in gen 6 so Trick Room is still viable?

Yes, I do.

>>30278529
>muh competitive
Enjoy being completely predictable

>>30278466
there is none
use any other bulky water or Tapu lele
Bulu is best Tapu btw

Also, I'd like to point out that Incineroar is pretty good even without intimidate. It has fake out, decent bulk, and bullies the fuck out of celesteela, tapu bulu, oranguru and A-marowak.

>>30278563
not like he used Spore on any grass type in that infamous finals match. But yeah, that nerf was warranted.

>>30276461
Neither of these is surprising as both have been used in past formats, Drampa and Decidueye are.

>>30278466
>10/10 typing
>Solid balk
>stops status with her Terrain
>access to Swagger

Swag your partner, no confusion , bang bang.

>>30278715
>85% acc
risky

>>30278564
Japan sure enjoyed 2015 with their predicable, old teams.

>>30278564
it's still a solid water type and its presence alone can scare off intimidate users and tke some pressure off your own physical attackers.

>>30278741
Milotic has one (1) set.

>>30278715
how will you train Tapu Fini for doubles? and what moves will you let it learn?

is braviary shit this gen?

>>30278868
>this gen
He's been shit since BW.

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Fucking Japanese tryhards who didn't even play the main game and went straight to VGC to the point they didn't even costumize their character.

>>30278868
Dare I say it's a little more viable now that Talonflame got blown back

>>30278868
It's probably the best user of defiant, I guess.

>>30278915
If they're using the guy, then it's excusable since it has no customization options.

how do i deal with tapu bulu + muk leads?

>>30279120
You don't.

>>30279120
Speed creep Muk with Marowak.

Question, what's the bread and butter set for torkoal? trying to do some calcs

>>30274385
Bump?

>>30279309
for moves
>eruption
>flamethrower
>sludge bombg
>heat wave or protect (depending on specs or not)

as for spread 252/252 does the job so far. Can survive EQ's pretty easily especially if you have a Bulu, drought makes it live scalds from stuff like Fini.

Might be worth EVing to take a strong neutral special hit, you have plenty physical bulk to spare.

>looking to see if I need to breed any egg moves for araquanid
>see it gets power split
>totally usable with 40 base sp.a to cripple special attackers and boost its own physical attack for liquidation
>check parents
>shuckle (bank only)
>masquerain: from shuckle
>malamar: form masquerain
waiting for january is suffering

>>30279691
band with liquidation only is the only set you need

>>30279679
>as for spread 252/252 does the job so far.
252 in both hp and sp atk or def and sp atk?

>>30279754
i have quiet hp and sp atk 0 speed ivs, pleb as shit but it's working well enough

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>>30273964
>>30274583
Well, duh. He thrives on causing shit. People love drama. Furthermore, his drama is always ridiculous and overblown and full of clickbait.

But last but not least, despite how retarded Verlisfy may look to someone with half a brain, there's people who ACTUALLY think like he does and as such he's appealing to their niche. He's appealing to the muh bro tourneyfags a shit baaaaw VGC and Smogon are shit because muh variety le epic Pachi happened so my shitmon bro can win worlds too-crown and quite successfully at that. People seem to forget there's quite a lot of people like that.

Say what you will about the guy but he's quite successful considering all and managed to get far by doing what he's doing right now either by him truly believing what he preaches or realizing there was that hole to fill and creating an online persona for it and if it is the latter then he was quite smart for realizing that niche and taking advantage of it.

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>>30279754
also worth noting that if torkoal uses eruption, then gets faked out next turn, oranguru's instruct will still make torkoal eruption once

>>30276438
What are people typically running on a-muk? I've been running a specially defensive set pretty successfully, and gunk shot still OHKOs the Tapus.

Reposting

I need help with the last 3 mons

http://pastebin.com/G0Esqj4K

I'm thinking Marowak/Togedemaru and Celesteel but I have no idea for the last one

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XK8W-WWWW-WWWX-RRX9

REMOVE CELESTEELA
(I was quite lucky in the match and maybe I shouldn't have won though)

>>30277712
I've had luck with Tapu fini. Just set up Calm Mind on them then scald away.

>>30277712
Uninvested modest Gastrodon with scald brings it at 25%

>>30280070
how d u ev tapu fini?

could anyone recommend me a trevenant set?

Any suggested builds/allies for Ribombee?

>>30280312
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Calm Mind

This is the set I'm using.

>>30280421
mind sharing your experience or success with it? and who do you pair alongside fini?

>>30280399
something ground type because fire and steel cuck it

>>30278563
>>30278589
>Arash opponent sets Trick Room while having Amoongus in front of him and nothing slower than it
He'd have to be retarded to not spore the fuck out of everything when given the chance in silver platter like that.

Why do you people get mad for people doing the natural thing to win?

>>30280641
this

>>30280536
It's been working pretty well for me so far. I've been using it with Ninetails for aurora veil protection and krookodile to help take care of electric types, and A-Muk for tapu bulu.

The only thing I don't like is you can't run any status's, so you can't run toxic along with it.

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>>30280032
FILTHY
DUMB
LUNARIAN
SCUM

How do I watch Battle Videos?

Do any of the legendaries/uniques need Hidden Powers to perform well, or am I free from resetting for shit? Can all of them be synchronized for the right nature?

>>30280692
mind showing your stats for ninetails, krokodile and A-muk? i've always been curious on how people train them for this gen especially ninetails and muk.

>>30280760
PC on Festival Plaza

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Been out of competitive Pokemon since like 2009, never played doubles in my life, any good resources to check out? I'll probably be building a pretty standard team to start out and get back into this shit.

>>30281024
nuggetbridge.com/forums/topic/18611-article-and-resource-index/

Here Robbie

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>>30281041
thanks anon

>Psychic Terrain doesn't block Triage Floral Healing
sweet

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I have 3 pokemon weak to Ground on my team and I need a 6th team member that can kill Tapu Bulu. Any poison is going to add another ground weakness. should I go back to the drawing board?

>>30281313
kartana maybe

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>>30280760
>>30280895
Thanks friend.

>Celesteela survives in 1hp twice
Bulky piece of shit.

>Persian doesn't fucking die
Why the hell is this shit so bulky

>Fur Coat
Oooooh

>A-Muk gets Fur Coat
DEVILISH

Good job anon. That's a good use of Power of Alchemy.

>>30281313
Gengar :^)

>>30281342
>kartana

not an option above 1100 buddy.

>>30281313
Celesteela.

>>30280801
I couldn't tell you ninetales off the top of my head (I'm on mobile), but for muk I'm running max HP and sp. Def, which lets him tank well while still OHKOing tapus with gunk shot. I had tried an assault vest set for a while but especially since I have krookodile I've had more success with black sludge so I can run protect.

>>30281451
Wow heavy slam does a lot more damage that i expected.

>>30281489
She's a big girl.

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>>30280002
Bump?

>>30281414
why?

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Alolan Dugtrio is pretty good and nobody seems to realize it yet. that is all

>>30280394
bump

>>30281414
Kartana is on about 5 of the top 30 teams

>>30281519
Because it's fucking dogshit in doubles like all frail attackers. It's double cucked by the fact that the only intimidate user it can actually deal with is Krookodile, it can't do shit against Gyarados or Arcanine. Or Torkoal for that matter, when Torkoal is one of the top 5 mons in the meta.

>>30281313
Crobat.

Though to be fair you don't need a Poison type to kill Bulu, anything faster with Sludge Bomb would do the trick but Crobat is there if you really want some STAB.

>>30281522
N-nani???

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>decide to look into "competitive" play
>it's all fucking double battles
WHAT the FUCK?

>>30281638
what is it smogontard? you cant win if you dont stall, switch every single time and throw stage hazards? git gud

>>30281638
Only the Nintendo organized format. If you want singles check out smogon.

>>30278915
>Default style
>Default clothes
I bet they haven't even finished the 1st trial yet.

>>30281522
It's fast and hits hard in a meta where everyone has at least a fairy and a poison type sure. But isn't it too frail?

>>30281721
Seriously, it seems I'm playing against bots.
At one point I started believing so since I met your usual meme Pelipper/Koko lead and his specs Pelipper and LO Koko kept spamming Hurricane and Thunder even though I had a Torkoal lead.

>>30279948
Why no Mental Herb? You're just asking for an accident to happen there.

>>30279691
Power Split really isn't any good, I've tried it and the extra turn needed to get it off makes it worthless in itself due to how dirt slow the thing is.

>>30278868
Considering the most common Intimidate user right now is Arcanine who regularly carries Wild Charge and is faster than Braviary? Still shit.

>>30278466
Immune to status and so insanely fat that even A-Muk can't OHKO it with Gunk Shot.

http://pastebin.com/gfRUuxAy

rate my team

i somehow think that this team is really weak to torkoal so i need a rain setter, but i dont know who to replace for it, also if you could suggest a better trevenant ev spread it could be useful

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>>30281725
You need to weaken everything just a little bit and give it either a life orb or choice band if you're an absolute madman, but all of its main targets have zero recovery options and as far as I know, it is the only pokemon that can reliably kill every tapu, as well as A-Muk, A-Marowak, gyarados with stone edge, deals heavy damage or kills arcanine even after intimidate, pelipper, lanturn, xurkitree, and torkoal if it's damaged.

That's 60% of the meta right there. If hippowdown were available in alola, sand would be broken as fuck right now.

Excadrill is dead and gone in vgc`17, but his spirit lives on in A-Dugtrio.

Dugtrio is fucking excadrill. That's why A-dugtrio is so goddamn good.

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>>30281638
>tfw too intelligent to enjoy singles

>>30281638
Singles is a broken format with homosexual tactics rising to the top. It has gotten more ridiculous consistently every year.
Look at the ridiculous bans smogon has had to employ in order to keep some semblance of competition.
The existence of megas and legendary trios makes singles formats pretty stupid, because they exist in an awkward realm of
"I'm broken for OU but if I were Uber nobody would ever use me." As it stands many of the megas and the legendaries are allowed
which ruins the OU format and makes it a ridiculous just where only 20 top pokemon are ever used and the winner is whoever
gets their zygarde set up first.

Is 3 pokemon that are weak to ground too many even with bulu on the team? I feel like the whole cuts damage from EQ thing is kinda pointless since people are packing non EQ ground moves with that in mind.

>>30274385
>http://pastebin.com/G0Esqj4K
Dont run Nihilego with choice items, is a very easy to read pokemon so you want to run protect on her.

>>30282514
Are we talking 2x weakness or 4x weakness here?

As long as the 3 ground-weak pokemon are split across 2 separate "cores," and you won't be bringing all 3 to any battle, then it can be workable. You will need ground immunities though. If you planned to bring all 3 in most battles, then garchomp is just going to wreck you. Consider air balloon as well.

>>30282765
>Garchomp
Why are people using this piece of shit on Tapus the meta? Dragons are done for.

>>30281465
can u reply me ninetail's stat once you are on your pc?

>>30282852
Garchomp is garchomp you fucking fool. You apparently think it's completely impossible to run it alongside Celesteela: The Fairy Fucker while using a simple protect on Garchomp and OHKOing the "OMG SO SCARY FAIRY WOW" on the enemy team? I've destroyed a million fags just like you.

>>30282852
Garchomp's EQ still hits like a truck and the guy is quite fast.

I'm surprised to not see Salamence that often instead since it's the other dude who could be viable despite being a dragon.

>>30282983
Unlike Garchomp Mence depends on his Dragon-STAB completely so it's no surprise he can't do anything on this fairy-heavy meta. He's useless despite having Z-Crystal nuke because everyone and their mom it's immune to it.

I posted my team earlier in the thread but changed a lot of stuff so any help to find any more flaws would be appreciated.
http://pastebin.com/GRY60vwp
I've also changed the team around and came up with this for a Tapu Bulu set, if this has any flaws please suggest some roster changes.
http://pastebin.com/FiBM1juZ

>>30283052
I don't know why Porygon porygon has 0 attack IVs or why Muk has 0 speed IVs so just ignore that.

>>30282331
>Dugtrio is fucking excadrill. That's why A-dugtrio is so goddamn good.
too bad gigalith is nowhere near the mere shadow of Tyranitar. Source: I tried a sand core and got bodied to death.

>>30283156
Would TTar be able to succeed right now though?

>>30283200
is there a meta where Ttar is allowed where he can't succeed?

The answer to that is no. Except VGC16 but that's just because of le epic super weathers.

>>30278571
I agree with you, I fought a Incineroar with his special z-stone, running Fake Out, Flare Blitz, Darkest Lariat, protect, and a very bulky set (take me too long to kill it, even with garyados, like 3HKO)

>>30282852
I literally just got swept by Garchomp because I forgot it carries poison jab

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>Every single team I have fought in the past four days is running at least two UB's and a Tapu in it
>The only way I can win is by running four checks to UB's and Tapus and nothing else, because otherwise I feasibly cannot win

This meta was almost fun, and then it turned into unending Celesteelas, Xurkitree, Pheromosa, Kartanas. Thanks VGC. I'm glad you understand what a good format's banlist looks like: absolutely barren of things worthy of being banned.

Seriously, why in the name of all fuck are Solgaleo and Lunala banned when the Ultra Beasts are dramatically worse?

>>30279948
>no inner focus
>no mental herb
>specs on torkoal instead of charcoal

nigger wtf u doin

>>30276438
>Decidueye

I'm interested, what set do people run

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>>30283280
>Seriously, why in the name of all fuck are Solgaleo and Lunala banned when the Ultra Beasts are dramatically worse?
Because it's fun to look at whiny scrubs like you get rekt because instead of getting gud all they do is cry and cry about how everyone and everything should've brought down to their level.

>>30283280
t. sub 1100 shitter

this meta is hella fun, even the 10 most used pokemon are all relatively new faces.

>>30283337
Only 1 team runs it. It's an anomaly and will be phased out when teams get more competitive.

>>30283280
>he is losing to pheromos and kartana

All I can say is get gud kid. If you want to bitch about something then bitch about tapu lele.

>>30283280
>all of the UBs are dramatically worse

you are literally, not literally in the figurative sense but literally literally, retarded.

>>30283280
>Seriously, why in the name of all fuck are Solgaleo and Lunala banned when the Ultra Beasts are dramatically worse?
..............is that a joke?

>>30283280
If VGC17 allowed legendaries like 16 did I guarantee you every single team would run Zygarde and either Solgaleo or Lunala. All three of those pokemon belong in ubers and if you think that ANY of the UBs are as good or better than them, especially in doubles, you don't know what you're talking about.

>>30283280
I would much more love this meta if it were without UB's.

>>30283092
Not my team, but is easy to tell
0 IVs in speed is for Trick Room
0 IVs in attack is for Foul Play

>>30283337
Sucker Punch/Spirit Shackle with Decidium-Z. It's a meme fillermon though and the guys who use it seldom bring it in.

>>30283656
Foul Play is illegal on A.Muk

>>30283651
All UBs except Celesteela, Xurkitree and maybe Nihilego on a good day are hot garbage in VGC.

>>30283280
Rank Up, you don't see any UB over 1500 :)

Man, Celesteela is fat, like, FAT.
It never fucking dies.

I'm glad it flies because otherwise it'd be even more annoying with grassy terrain.

>>30283688
How people can be this retarded?

>>30283719
Mostly you don't see Pheromosa or Kartana, Xurkitree still sees occasional use though I doubt any of the top 10 at worlds will use it, it'll be cucked out of the meta by then more likely than not.

Celesteela has staying power though because of how versatile it is.

>>30283776
>Celesteela has staying power though because of how versatile it is.

Is it really? you can either run a subseed set or go a little more offensive but it doesn't really seem that versatile.

>>30283749
Well I am new to pokemon if you care to explain.

>>30281904
bump

How do you counter Torkoal without EQ?
Specially Torkoal leads with crap like TR, instruct or after you. And no, wide guard isn't really helping because they just know and flamethrower me instead.
Man I never imagined I'd see the day where I'd be legitimately scared of that turtle.

>>30283828
Yeah, its stats make a large number of offensive or defensive spreads possible, it's movepool isn't gen 1 normal type tier but it has all of the coverage moves it really needs, beast boost, and the best bulk of any UB which lets it hold on to those boosts.

>>30284000
AV Gigalith in the backline. Flash Fire Arcanine (lmao).

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QUICK
come up with a good vgc set for pyukumuku

>>30284000
assvest mudsdale completely shits on it
any other weather setter
use wide guard reasonably and try to win mindgames

>>30274385
pelipper should have hurricane
hurricane+rain is the main reason to use it over politoed

What sets are most commonly used on Pheromosa so I can punish her shit? Is her Special set more prevalent than her physical?

>>30283828
Can go mixed, phys or special, along with good support options. While its not game damning if youbgues wrong it can be a pain if you prepared for wrong one

>>30272216
TR Tapu Lele team GO

>>30284000
Literally any water type.

Pack Prankster Rain Dance if it that much of a trouble.

Macho Brace Pelipper or something. Not like Pelipper cares much about being fast.

i have been seeing a lot of post regarding sand and rain team, but none on hail. Why? Is hail team so underrated?

>>30284593
no, it's just shit
a-ninetales can work nicely on its own but there's no incentive in basing a team around it.

>>30284593
>Is hail team so underrated?
No. It's because hail is shit and ice types are shit too.

>>30284674
>>30284659
>it's shit
What about A-sandslash and Beartic?

>>30284791
beartic would unironically work ten times better on a rain team
either way building a proper "hail team" forces you to carry at least 2 ice-types around, which means your team is going to have terrible defensive coverage.

>>30284791
Doubling up weaknesses for no real benefit since neither of these pokemon are exceptionally good even with hail running.

Ninetails is for one turn Aurora Veil, nothing more.

>>30283912
It's foul play being used ON muk, not muk itself using foul play

>>30285016
Would he still be able to OHKO Tapus with gunk shot? I can't do any calcs since the site doesn't have A.Muk.

>>30285219
a muk has the same stats as muk

>>30284105
Follow me
-
-
-

>>30285521
retard

>>30284143
Any suggested stat spread? Or should I just go for a generic 252 HP 252 Atk?

Oh boy this is early XY VGC all over again but with Torkoal and Lilligant instead of of Zard-Y and Venusaur.

>>30279948

You should run protect on torkoal

>>30286864

Forgot to add, change specs for something else

>>30286748
Is torkoal really that common? I've been running it because it's the slowest weather setter. Pelican and Tapu koko are far more common on battle spot at least. I've even seen more ninetails, but granted I am only in the high 1700s so maybe it gets different at high level play.

>>30287123
what team are you using?

>>30287163
I'm on mobile so I'm not gonna post full sets, but I'm running a trick room sun team. Mimikyu, Machamp, Torkoal, Celesteela, a-Marowak, with scarf chomp in the back.

I was using Oranguru before Mimikyu but it kept getting double targeted before I could get a trick room off. Mimikyu with mental herb almost always gets one off.

Also this is my first serious doubles team after years of singles so pls no bully

>>30287123
Gets paired with Trick Room Oranguru for le quick Eruption spam

so what's le ebin oranguru torkoal flowchart?

i love ribombee. can i make a good team around ribombee

>>30287857
protect torkoal turn 1
get oranguru double targeted
forfeit

there is no flowchart to trick room teams, you have to git gud and adapt to the opponent's lead to make it work.

what natures do people run on xurkitree is it just modest?
also what synchronizers do people use?

>>30288712
I use a modest one with some speed investment so that it goes faster than pheromosa under tailwind

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>>30272216
What items do the following pokemon commonly use?

Torkoal
Krookodile

>Hit Gengar with a choicemon
>Cursed body

REEEEEEEEE

>>30282881
Ninetales-Alola @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 44 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 204 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Protect

>>30289395
Do stones work on weather setting abilities now?

How do I run Primarina? Is it viable for Trick Room if I use Quiet nature?

>>30289691
They have always worked m9

>>30289935
Then how come no one used them in gen 6?

>>30290065
You would see them occasionally, but VGC games tend to be quite short. The chance of weather running out by turn limit rather than being overwritten or the match ending, combined with the chance of weather running out mattering, is much less than a Sitrus Berry, Choice Scarf, etc coming in useful.

>>30290065
meta didnt allow for weather teams?

>>30290193
>Weather wasn't in Gen 6 VGC
Good one, I laughed!

>>30290065
>Gen 6 vgc
>Not dominated by primal weather

Unless you mean xy only, in wich case there were no setters available of worth

>>30289749
You stop trying to play with shitmons and use something good. Niche pokemon only come into play if there's something USEFUL that they do better than meta pokes. Primarina has no such gimmick.

>>30290298
Politoed, Charizard Y, Tyranitar and Abomasnow were all legal in VGC 2014 and all four of them were used more than once at Worlds.

>>30287571
I think the common way people are covering for that weakness is to have a Smeargle use "Follow Me" to suicide at the start. Guarantees you get Torkoal out and Orangaru gets his trick room off; I guess it could be countered by trapping them and waiting out trick room or taunting them so they have to waste a turn on switch but I dunno if it's that easy, it's popular for a reason.

>>30290369
3 of those use a mega stone and 1 of them likes eject button more. there's your answer now stop shit posting please

>>30290384
It's popular for a reason; people don't have efficient teams because it's a new generation. It's a gay gimmick strat that will die when people get gud.

It takes 1 wide guard user, 1 taunter, 1 A-golem, 1 AV gigalith, 1 setup sweeper, or many more to beat this dumb gimmick strat. It's so predictable and NECESSITATES LOSING 1 POKEMON FOR FREE just to set it up and at the end of it all you get a pokemon on the field with 85 SpA and 2 attacks worth mentioning. Wow so hard to beat what could i ever do?

whats a good archanine choice scarf set? Scarf lets him outspeed kartanas. And since ther is only 1 t wind setter on my team that is weak to kartana t wind isnt that reliable. This is my team. Im missing 1 member as i dont know what to put in. I guess tapu bulu can take a hit and superpower ko the kartana back but it might not be enough or it has sash
http://pastebin.com/Neg4Y8bP

>>30290499
Yeah can't help but feel this strat is only dominant because people are crutching on that Pheromosa+Tapu strat without properly supporting their team with counters.

>>30290691
Hardly anyone over 1200 uses Pheromosa.

>>30290691
..Pheromosa is the worst ultra beast by far. I don't even know what you mean by "that pheromosa+tapu strat" because it doesn't exist.

what team would you recommend to anyone who wants to be above 1700 and win a local tournament

is it possible to run a hail team and meet an expected 40ish% winrate or is it still dead in the water as an archetype

I've been using Tapu Koko, Pelipper, Tapu Bullu and Kartana with really good success and I was wondering how exactly would you go around beating this team, not directly countering it but with a common team.

>>30291019
won't be good until ice types are buffed

>>30291025
celesteela shits on them

>>30291025
I would use Komala. Love that little dude.

>>30291019
Ninetales is fine on it's own. Building around hail has always been and still is a bad idea because it's so limited.

>snarl a tapu lele that just dealt roughly 30% damage
>it crits me next turn
>lose on turn 2
REEEEEEEEE

>>30291025
dugtrio kills everything there
AV snarl arcanine
follow me support or redirection in general
speed control
trevenant
porygon2
a-muk
a-marowak

>>30291139
what EV spread does trevenant need to shit on them?

>>30291287
Do the calcs yourself lazy mommy fricker.

>>30291287
Mr. Tree is on TR teams so you don't want to use it if you're not TR. I guess it could work outside of that but only in a niche situation in which your team needs a physical ghost stab and physical grass stab, plus will o wisp support or something.

Is pheromosa even that good? Sure, with lele she can't be hit by priority, but if pheromosa can't OHKO, her only other option is u-turn. She's too limited imo

>>30291497
no she is not good

fast/frail is not a good combination for doubles battling. singles is a different matter.

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REEEE SOMEONE GIVE ME FEEDBACK DAMN IT
http://pastebin.com/G0Esqj4K

>>30292407
Feedback: you are allowed to bring 6 pokemon. I recommend it.

>>30292738
Im going to use Celesteel and either Marowak or Togedemaru, but I have no idea what to use for the last one

>>30292407
why 108 sped on bulu? Your team will get shit on by trick room i suggest an anti trick roomer/trick room counter check

>>30282513

Pokemon is broken whether you play doubles or singles anon. The sooner you accept this the better.

>>30292800
The idea was that it has just enough speed to outspeed anything under tailwind

But I honestly don't know how much speed it needs

>>30292800
What's an anti trick roomer?

>>30294105
A mon that does well on trick room on your ream to screw over enemy trick room teams

>>30276348
kartana is ass dont use it

>>30294195
is it appropiate to run only one anti TR on a team that doesnt use TR at all just for the sake of having it? any recommendations on anti TR?

>>30294195
I don't think I had room on my team for that. It's a rain team with tapu Bulu

>>30294291
Become the new Arash with a spore spamming Parasect

>>30294593
i hope this is not a shitpost because i've wanted to use the x8 fire weakness crabmushroom for a long time tell me more about this Arash

anyone knows a good vgc discord/skype group?

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>>30295761
smogon VGC showdown chat

>>30295761
No, should one be made? Or would the shit posting be too rampant?

>>30295917
>30295917
shitposting with an username is not common, but then again shitposting never ceases to amaze me

>>30295988
I just want to believe we could create a discord for vgc. I don't know that I can though.

>>30296334
>>30295917
see >>30295861

>>30296367
Noted, and discarded. Discord is better.

>>30296481
>a private chat where ur stuck with no new insight or players
ok

>>30296533
>a public chat that goes nowhere due to being flooded with idiots who can't hold a conversation.
ok

>>30296593
more people = higher chance of actual good players
some private discord vp chat is not gunna have good players.

>>30291036
Maybe next gen...seriously, would it kill GF to properly buff ice type or make more good icemons instead of the garbage they keep shitting out? The worst part is, they're probably patting themselves on the back thinking they've done more than enough to make hail (and ice in general) viable with Aurora Veil and Slush Rush. Heck, because of these "improvements", we probably won't see much more in the next gen either. Loving ice is suffering.

What's a good tapu lele set if I want to run weakness policy dragonnite? Also I'm going to use Persian and Gyarados on my team what other two mons would be good?

>>30296829
>Four weaknesses
>Only resists itself
Who thought this was okay

>>30279948
A bit late, but it's worth noting PS still doesn't have many mechanics properly implemented, and that Instructing a flinched mon causes the Instructed move to fail again.

does alolan raichu have any place on a team with tapu koko?

>>30297772
what's the team comprised of?

>>30278668
Drampa makes sense when you realize it's got huge Sp.Atk, a pretty damn neat ability, and access to a good dual STAB plus Hurricane and Roost

Okay, so as near as I can tell, every team is going to probably run

>A Tapu for terrain
>A weather setter
>A Muk, mostly for Tapu Killing.
>Stuff that learns Fake Out or can properly block it
>A big hitter that benefits from the Tapu/Weather of choice

That about right?

>>30298706
I guess, a bit formulaic I guess. I just use mons that have supportive strategies.
http://pastebin.com/KAR0NVrT
Hasn't been tested yet to be sure.

>>30298780
whoops. http://pastebin.com/KK5dSkSe

>>30296918
Even normal resists something other than itself (well, it's an immunity, but you get my drift).

any suggestions for the final spot?
http://pastebin.com/fkgaWeer
i was thinking a slower mon for if tr does get set up but not sure which one

>>30298872
It also only has one weakness, so it's not so bad. Fucking everything either has STAB or coverage on a move that will fuck Ice up

this might sound a bit silly, but considering everyone and their fucking mother is running Bulu, maybe it's time to consider not putting Earthquake on every fucking thing for coverage?

Do celesteela and Bulu even have synergy considering Celesteela is a fighting type and wouldn't get hit by ground moves anyways?

>>30298973
what the fuck

>>30298973
I can't tell if you're mistaking Celesteela for Pheromosa or if you typoed and meant to say Flying

>>30299220
Phone poster. I think he meant
>celesteela is a flying type and wouldn't get hit by ground moves anyways?
In response to using bulu's grassy terrain halving the damage from ground moves?

>>30299307
That's what I meant yeah.

>>30298932
A-Marowak works. As long as you never have him and kek out at the same time. Or do? It boosts sp.atk so you could give him a sp.atk coverage move and utilize him with gyara. Also helps fairly well with your other team mates. Slow too.

>>30298973
>>30299341

well, given its typing, you can use it to soak up Wood Hammers from others looking to abuse the terrain for themselves. Also, even if grassy terrain halves damage from EQ, it doesn't mean it's eliminated. It's always nice to not take damage from something.

>>30276438
A-Muk set?

Best nature for Bulu and Fini?

Guessing just adamant for bulu and careful, def up attack down i think, for fini

>>30299489
I mean I guess, but celesteel wont take damage from ground moves anyways

>>30299839
I know, my point was I'd rather take something take no damage than half. Celesteela is good regardless

>>30299695
Adamant, Impish, Careful for Bulu
Calm or Bold for Fini

>>30299942
Okay, regardless do they function as a pair?

>>30276438
Take out decidueye, add Dhelmise
Take out Trevenant, add Kartana and A-Exeggutor
Take out Drampa, add Guzzlord.

>>30276438
why Porygon-2 instead of Z? Is it a better Conversion user?

>>30300349
how are people using dhelmise?

>>30300531
eviolite

>>30300349
show your work.

>>30300559
Dhelmise is the same as Decidueye except it's significantly slower and its trapping move is Steel, which incidentally it gets a boost from since its ability is like having Steel STAB.

the problem is, it's fucking slow, and thus doesn't do too hot at Decidueye's main edge, being fast-ish and able to trap things while damaging them

>>30300531
Dunno, Porygon z is better now .
Zmove Conversion boost all stat, change typing, destroy everything with Adaptability.

>>30300531

Z conversion is overrated in the doubles environment. It is hard to pull off.

Porygon2 has been a meta staple for 4+ years now.

>>30300811
They don't completely, 100% fucking different things. They are not even remotely for the same purpose. That's why 1 team at worlds a couple years ago had both on his team, and they had totally different jobs.

>Zmove Conversion boost all stat, change typing, destroy everything with Adaptability.

yes thanks sherlocke for explaining the z convert strategy everyone already knows

>>30300770
trapping steel move?

>>30300896
Anchor Shot is basically a steel type version of Decidueye's ghost move.

>>30300870
>>30300811
Yah, sure. :-)
Zconversion doesn't boost as much as eviolite anyway- Oh no, It does.

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>>30301035
Sure dude why don't you dominate the meta with "support porygon-Z" who wastes a moveslot for conversion, switches into attacks and asks the enemy to please wait 1 turn while I set up my defense boost, then uses +1/+1/+1/+1/+1 to spread toxic on the enemy team. Just like Porygon2 but better, right? Btw you wasted your z-move for this.

Face it you narrow minded fuckhead, they are completely different fucking pokemon and used for different things. Pory2 can't do what Pory-Z does and vice versa.

http://pastebin.com/G0Esqj4K

What should I use as my last 3 Pokémon and what should I change about Bulu?

>>30301985
>last 3 pokemon
>last THREE pokemon

jesus christ kid are you trying to get us to build your fucking team for you?

>>30302065
I mean I don't know. When I've tried asking if Celesteela and Marowak were good additions, everyone either ignored me or said I need different pokemon

>>30302170
how about put those on your team and test it like a big boy then make your own big boy decision

>>30302249
I'm afraid to lose