Let's Make Some Competitively Viable Gen VII Mons

I like it, but the idea of no investments into the defences don't make much sense to me. Mind going into detail why you chose this build over some other kind of build?

>>29792678
>Making a tank offensive
If anything it'll be toxic spikes, baneful bunker/recover and 2 stab moves with regenerator and hp def/spdef investments and black sludge

Or some weird assault vest version with regenerator

If you really want it to be offensive the go to set would be modest with toxic spike/surf, venoshock, baneful bunker and recover. Special attack isn't too off from it's attack

>>29792747
Have you seen those defenses? They're pretty insane on their own. By investing into HP, and admittedly I haven't done the calcs on this yet, but I'm hoping it can survive one of just about any non-boosted attack.

The reason I went for a more offensively focused build is because I like doing the unexpected. People will go into Toxapex expected it to do nothing but stall, so when they get hit with a STAB, crit, fully invested Liquidation, it throws a wrench into whatever they were planning before. I've had similar luck with my offensive Tentacruel this gen.

In essence, the obvious way to built Toxapex is bulk and stall. While this build still has that, I wanted to try and shake things up a little.

>>29792747
diminishing returns
unlike natures, evs are a flat boost, so eving into an already sky high stat without the aim to hit a specific breakpoint that allows it to score a certain ko or survive a specific attack from something else is (usually) unwise because those numbers will go much farther elsewhere
its the same idea behind why you dont invest in hp on chansey

im not the op, but i think he has the right idea with this thing, without offensive investment its gonna be dead in the water, its utility movepool isnt the greatest and its unboosted offenses are piss weak
although i might run special instead so you can cripple anything immune to poison with scald

Golisopod

likely adamant or careful
perhaps assault vest
defensive and attack EV distribution dependent on meta

first impression
leech life
aqua jet
liquidation OR coverage

first impression is +2 priority which is pretty cool
I think its switch out at 50% is workable as an advantage if used properly

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Posting the stats sheet.

>>29793044
>power of alchemy
wtf the fuck is this?

>>29792678
i don't see the point of running attack over special since they're so close
it gets scald and venoshock synergizes crazy well with merciless

>>29793075
Power of Alchemy is the same as Receiver. So you could get stuff like Levitate or Wonder Guard on Muk!

>>29793095
oh shit
that could actually be great considering i use muk on my trick room doubles team already

I agree with special attack on toxapex

I worked it out and venoshock becomes a 292 power attack, which hits like a truck even with a base 53 special attack or whatever

Decidueye @ Lum Berry
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Atk / 240 SpD
Careful Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade
- Toxic
- Roost

Wanted to make it a bit of a stall mon as well as having some offensive capabilities. Couldn't decide whether or not Overgrowth or Long Reach would work better, went with the latter to avoid Rocky Helmet on Leaf Blade I guess. I just want it to be usable in all honesty... T-T

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Tapu Koko @ Life Orb/Assault Vest
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 160 SpA / 92 Atk / 248 Speed / 8 HP
Naive Nature
~Play Rough
~Thunder
~Brave Bird
~Roost (if LO)/Volt Switch (if AV)

Being one of the faster mons in the gen, and one of the faster options for VGC, i think Koko will be one to be dealt with. Especially since Weather and Terrains stack, being prepared for Pelliper+Koko is a necessity.

Mixed stats that almost remind me of Gen IV Infernape. You have Play Rough and Thunder for your main damage plays, Brave Bird gets you free of Amoonguss and that new MushroomMan. Roost restores some of that lost HP from Life Orb and Brave Bird, but Volt Switch lets you freely move back and forth between counters. Honestly, I think AV will be the item to go with during VGC simply because Koko's usability and adds to his mediocre defenses.

Koko+ARaichu will also be a popular combo, but that's been said since ARaichu's ability was revealed.

>>29792678
Salazzle @ Black Sludge
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Dragon Pulse

Alternatively,
Salazzle @ Life Orb
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb
- Dragon Pulse

And finally,

Salandit @ Eviolite (any word on the nerf? I keep hearing different answers)
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Will-o-wisp
- Taunt
- Venoshock / flamethrower

Just a cute lil annoyer. Not good, but I know a lot of people really like salandit, so this is something.

would people want this genned and uploaded to a mega?

>>29793574
I wonder if Substitute would be a good move for Salazzle? It seems paper thin, and could be a bit of a pain to deal with if you force a switch and could get a sub up?

>>29792917
>>29793075
>>29793123
Here's my logic on Physical over Special:

My Toxapex build isn't purely offense,it's defensive as well. Balanced, in a way. If it gets out Toxic Spikes, then most things will come into it poisoned. If they don't, but they have contact attacks that they plan on using, Baneful Bunker can potentially poison as well. Throw in Baneful Bunker's Protect-like nature, Black Sludge, and Recover, and we have kill method number 1: death by poisoning.

So, what's the opponent doing to do? Send out a Steel or Poison type. These two types will be immune to death by poisoning. If I make Toxapex Special and run Venoshock as my primary offense, then Toxapex is now completely walled by these Pokémon.

To me, then, the deciding factor is Liquidation vs Scald. This one I can see going either way, but the simple fact of the matter is that, even with Merciless and offensive investment, neither one will be hitting insanely hard. While Scald may have that chance to burn, Liquidation has a chance to lower Defense. Burn is useful for adding in more physical bulk, but especially against special attacking opponents, won't necessarily force that switch. Liquidation, meanwhile, always has that potential to hit harder than it did last turn, and the defense drop can be scary enough to entice an opponent to switch out, right into some more Toxic Spikes.

If I did a special build, I feel like I'd have to use both Venoshock and Scald to really make it better, which would mean dropping a move. Baneful Bunker is just too good for toxic stall, Black Sludge stall, and in general for doubles/VGC. Meanwhile, Recover is what gives Toxapex its biggest advantage over several other bulky Water types, esp. Tentacruel. Finally, if we ditch Toxic Spikes, suddenly Merciless becomes a lot less viable.

I feel like Special Attacking could work as a separate set completely, though this might require dropping Merciless for Regenerator, which hugely drops Toxapex's offensive power.

>>29793730
Yeah, actually, now that you mention it, sub + 3 attacks sounds like a lot of fun.

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>>29793746
Original Creator here again. So you guys were thinking something like this, right? What would you choose for the undecided move slots?

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Venoshock
- Baneful Bunker / Toxic
- Recover / Toxic Spikes

hard mode: make lurantis viable

>>29792917
The point of adding defense isn't just to embiggen defenses, unless it's something like Chansey. The point is to turn 2HKOs into 3HKOs or 4HKOs or whatever. If you need your Snorlax to survive two Dynamic Punches instead of one from Hitmonchan or whatever then you run the calcs and figure out how much to invest in Def

>>29793881
Defog and Contrary Leaf Storm are literally the only things going for it. It's just another grass shitmon, they didn't even try and make it good.

Marshadow @ Choice Band/Scarf- Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
-Shadow Sneak
-Drain Punch
-Spectral Thief
-Close Combat

Choice scarf would be a great set, if something sets up a Dragon dance or Swords dance you can switch in and outspeed with 125 Base Speed, use Spectral thief to get the attack and ko back.

Decidueye @ Ghostium-Z
Ability: Long Reach
-Soul Shackle
-Curse
-Roost
-Protect/Baton Pass
new stallbreaker

>>29793746
the point of merciless is to poison things, scald can't burn things that are already poisoned by toxic spikes. scald is for more defensive variants to hit steel- and poison-types and burn

>>29793850
more like that, with toxic and recover

while I do love baneful bunker I think it is more a doubles move

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>>29794007
This is actually pretty neat, I can see this fucking over ferro pretty nicely

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Mimikyu @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk or 252 Atk/252 Spe
Adamant Nature/Impish Nature
-Swords Dance
-Play Rough
-Shadow Sneak
-Leech Life

Thoughts?

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant
-Horn Leech
-Bulk Up
-Leech Seed
-Protect

Get life back from Horn Leech + Terrain + Leech Seed + Protect and can stall. Could also run 252 SpD and be even bulkier.

>>29793746
i'd consider using a +def/spd nature depending on if there are any good breakpoints, if not i'd go with modest
i'm also pretty torn on the last moves.
scald
venoshock
toxic spikes
recover / baneful bunker
i don't think i'd rely on bunker for poisoning, so it's kind of just a protect with a weird bonus imo
i wouldn't run it with recover too

>>29794112
for bulu, if you want to maximize relative returns off leech seed and horn leech, you want high attack and investment in defenses over hp

but yes I am curious about how potent this thing will wind up being, I need to run some numbers

>>29794007
Isn't Curse's effect different on Ghost-types? I'm confused.

>>29794155
i think that's the point
they cant switch out and they slowly die to passive curse damage

>>29794155
I think thats the point, Curse will damage the trapped enemy while decidueye heals, then stalls it out or passes, leaving the stallmon helpless in the process

>>29794112
Tapu Bulu @ Lefties
Ability: Grass Surge
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 Def
Impish
-Horn Leech
-Leech Seed
-Nature's Madness
-Substitute/Protect/Toxic

Nature's Madness catches grass switches and breaks walls.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 84 SpD
Calm
-Toxic
-Venoshock
-Recover
-T Spikes

That's a good set

>>29792678
>no Venoshock

>>29794176
>>29794201
Also Z curse heals him to full before cutting his health in half

>>29794525
>not reading the thread
The reasoning's been explained at least twice, and an alternate special attacking set has also been proposed.

if everyone's gonna post their toxapex, here's one that actually isn't missing an important move.
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 132 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze / Ice Beam / Baneful Bunker
quick explanation
the EVs are optimized to never be 3hkod by mega diancie's diamond storm. Scald is your generic stab for spamming and spreading burns around. Toxic spikes allows toxapex to function as a utility and wear down teams for teammates to come clean up. Haze prevents toxapex from being set up bait for some sweepers because of its low special attack. If that's not worrying, ice beam is an option to catch landorus-t and garchomp on the switchin. Baneful bunker can be used to scout choice items, but I really don't recommend it.

>>29794580
I might consider that Haze option, especially with Unaware being trash now

>>29794580
This is about what I expect the standard Toxapex to be. No offense, bulky as all hell, and supportive.

What's going to make Toxapex interesting, I feel, is that it has the stats to be defensive, an ability that lets it be offensive, and a movepool that lets it do both as well as supportive. It's going to be a very versatile Pokémon.

Dhelmise @ Assault Vest
Steelworker
Adamant - 252Hp/252Atk/4SpD

Anchor Shot
Rapid Spin
Power Whip/Energy Ball/Giga Drain
Shadow Ball

Alternatively you could probably go Modest with investment in SpAtk

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4 SP D
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- toxic
- scald/liquidation

you dont have a way of forcing things out. toxapex is a really good golisopod counter, but if he can just set up sword dances in front of you, whats the point of walling him?

tspikes cause toxapex is the best t spiker in the game

toxic for dealing with things unaffected by tspikes, as well as threatening things you need to force out on your own who can set up. such as a golisopod sding.

recover for obvious reasons

liquidation hits slightly harder, water stab is good and the possible def drop can be nice. but scald is good against things like scizor and bisharp, which you wall but aside from burning cannot touch.
dont argue that "but you should be poisoning things not burning things" spreading both is really good.

this thing beats golisopod/mega lop/talon (lol hes dead now though so) weavile, bisharp, mega diancie without earth power, azumarill, keldeo, mega heracross, zardx, scizor and ttar except for like, banded eq off the top of my head. its a REALLY good pivot/defensive pokemon who provides toxic spikes EASILY. scald also really bothers skarmory and excadrill, which can clear your hazards. burning any poison who can take away tspikes is a good thing too. combine it with a ground resist and someone to deal with psychics (primarily lati@s) and you have yourself a good core.

>>29794727
>>29794727
4got to mention haze. let go of toxic for haze, cause both are meant to deal with things right in front of you.

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Make me OU p-please?

>>29794854
No, you little shit. Go back to RU and think about what you've done.

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VGC Doubles sets:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpDef
Modest Nature
~Baneful Bunker
~Recover
~Surf
~Venoshock

Palossand @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP/100 SpA/156 SpDef
Sassy Nature
~Earth Power
~Giga Drain
~Shore Up
~Shadow Ball/Toxic

Basically, once you Surf with Toxapex, Palossand eats the Surf, gets the +2 Def and is free to start spoutin' off his attacks. Ground+Grass+Ghost has incredible coverage and he has the ability to recover on his own with Shore Up. Leftovers are there to provide additional healing, but Life Orb is there to provide addtional damage. With how pitiful Toxapex's damage is outside of Merciless crits, even if Water Compaction doesn't work like Water Absorb or LightningRod (where there's no damage), taking one Surf isn't going to hurt too bad. Toxic can be used over Shadow Ball to get off a sure-fire Poison for Toxapex to do its work.

>>29794007
does it learn defog? if so you could kill of spike or rock leads and then get rid of the hazards

>>29793551
Top Kek doesn't get Play Rough. Best Fairy move it has is Dazzling Gleam

>>29794976
Well, ain't that a crock of shit.
>look up the others
>none of them get it
>not even Bulu

what. the. fuck.

I can see Defiant Passimian getting some play as long as it learns some good moves.

>>29794080
That free, protected swords dance on turn 1 is pretty cool

>>29794854
its kinda like a low tier azumarill
shadow sneak
play rough
sd/splash
taunt/sub
its ability gives it a free turn of setup or a free switch in

could also run a support set since its got decent enough bulk
wisp
taunt
pain split
play rough

its actually not the worst new thing this gen

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>>29794868
>RU
Nice meme.

>>29793044
TOUCANNON GETS SHEER FORCE?!

Jolly Max Speed/Max Atk w/ choice scarf bout to wreck bitches

>>29793095
Power of Alchemy adopts the ability of a pokemon you KO. Receiver adopts the ability of a knocked out ally pokemon.

>>29794854
Sitrus Berry

Infestation
Substitute
Curse
Pain Split/Will-O-Wisp/Toxic

>>29795115
it doesnt actually get anything it can use with it though
like seriously
>steel wing
>rock smash
>flame charge
>flash cannon
thats literally it
skill link is infinitely better
no fucking idea what they were thinking

>>29795184
Oh really? A number of sites have it listed wrong then.

>>29793044

>Mimikyu @ Life Orb
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
- Swords Dance
- Leech Life
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough/Shadow Claw

Guaranteed Swords Dance gives Jolly Mimikyu 716 attack off the bat after Life Orb calculations, along with access to offensive healing and priority. Unfortunately, Mimikyu's physically offensive movepool isn't the best, and it is relatively frail physically, but it's still a neat concept, and could be an effective cleaner against hyper offense teams.

>Shiinotic @ Leftovers
4HP/252 Def/252 SpDef
Effect Spore
Relaxed
-Spore/Toxic
-Strength Sap
-Giga Drain
-Moonblast

Shiinotic is weird, at first glance it looks like a total shitmon, but it's signature move, Strength Sap, is absolutely incredible under the right circumstances. Not only does it lower the opponents attack, forcing switches and mitigating it's low physical bulk, but it also heals Shiinotic by an amount equal to the opponents attack stat. This is the reason for the low HP investment as it means even something like Rotom-W, with a laughable base 65 attack, will heal Shiinotic by over 50%, and anything with invested attack will heal it fully. Unfortunately, it's stats still aren't great all around and it struggles to do damage outside of forcing switches and PP stalling, this being the reason Toxic may actually be preferred over Spore.

>Ninetales-A @ Icy Rock/Life Orb
252 Speed/252 SpAtk/4Hp
Snow Warning
Timid
-Blizzard
-Nasty Plot/Heat Wave
-Aurora Veil
-Dark Pulse

Ninetales-A has some cool tricks, namely, Aurora Veil allows it to survive an univested Heatran's Flash Cannon even with it's 4x weakness. It's also fast enough to set up Aurora Veil on Landorus-T, survive Stone Edge, destroy any potential focus sash through hail damage and OHKO back with Blizzard, so that's fun. Life Orb maybe over Icy Rock since it has no reliable recovery anyway and mainly exists to set up Aurora Veil + dish out as much damage as it can before it dies.

>>29795288
it's signature move works with it too

>>29795288
this makes me sad, everything that looked good at first is turning out to be more and more disappointing because of shit movesets.

Alolan persian got technician and furcoat but persian is has no good moves for either, especially since it's made to be a special attacker with next to no special moves.

Whats everyones opinions on Mudsdale? I kinda like the idea of switching in a resisted attack taking next to know damage boosting defense then hitting stealth rock for meh damage and getting boosted again. With Leftovers or AV it could be really obnoxious although im not into competitive battling much and dont know exactly how good it would do

>>29795078

How is it a low-tier Azumarill in any way? It's attack surpasses Azu's after the free SD Disguise gives you, it resists U-Turn and isn't weak to Volt Switch, and it's speed is infinitely better than Azu's. It also has way more options and it's level of predictability doesn't boil down to 'Does it have Ice Punch or Knock Off?'

Not to mention it has healing whereas Azu doesn't. And Psych Up, which is typically a terrible move but picture this;

Opponent is using Dragonite, gets cocky and goes for as many DD's as possible, you switch in Mimikyu on their Extremespeed or Outrage and then their options are :

>a) Switch out and lose their stat boosts, while also risking Mimikyu getting two free Swords Dance boosts if it's not a psych-up variant

>b) Break disguise with earthquake and have their stat boosts copied, Mimikyu, being immune to Extremespeed and having higher natural speed than Dragonite, can revenge kill it with Play Rough and proceed to trash the rest of Dragonite's team.

Mimikyu's level of utility is amazing even if it's movepool is a bit disappointing. It's not really comparable to Azumarill if you ask me, it does way more.

>>29792747

>21:11:11

Checked.

Minior @ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Shell Smash
-Stone Edge
-Acrobatics
-Earthquake

Would Vikvolt be viable with a speed swap from Ribombee?

>>29792678
Toxapex @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Baneful Bunker
- Venom Drench
- Recover
Gimmickly, but should win against every physical non steel/poison attacker.

Guys. GUYS.

Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Dragon claw
- Sky Uppercut / Poison Jab / Earthquake

Kommo-o is a fucking chunky boy with good offensive typing (really only has trouble with fairies), bulk up, and soundproof. Soundproof is fantastic for substitute pokemon because sound moves (including roar, the setup sweeper's bane) bypass the sub. Obviously you''re gonna have trouble with fairies with just dual stab, or levitating steel types if you go with EQ, or steel types in general if you go with poison jab. But I still think this set has potential. Maybe run more speed to sub before some stuff can status you, but I don't feel like figuring out what benchmark to hit. It probably won't be seen as much as DD, SD, or even band/specs/AV, but it sounds like a fun niche set. The longer I look at kommo-o's movepool, the more sets I can see it running.

>>29795371

Yeah, and it's a charge move and therefore useless.

Is araquanid any good?

>>29795821
Defensive stats but no have recovery or sticky web. Could see it pulling off something with Lunge to cover its weakest def though.

>>29795821
Unfortunately, no.

Araquanid
Water/Bug
Abilities: Water Bubble / Water Bubble / Water Absorb
HP: 68
Atk: 70
Def: 92
SpAtk: 50
SpDef: 132
Spe: 42

Level Up

L1 - Wide Guard
L1 - Soak
L1 - Bubble
L1 - Infestation
L1 - Spider Web
L1 - Bug Bite
L5 - Infestation
L8 - Spider Web
L13 - Bug Bite
L16 - Bubble Beam
L21 - Bite
L26 - Aqua Ring
L33 - Leech Life
L38 - Crunch
L45 - Lunge
L50 - Mirror Coat
L57 - Liquidation
L62 - Entrainment

TMs

TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Leech Life
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Round
TM55 - Scald
TM79 - Frost Breath
TM81 - X-Scissor
TM83 - Infestation
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Sleep Talk
TM90 - Substitute
TM94 - Surf
TM98 - Waterfall
TM100 - Confide
Egg moves

Egg - Power Split
Egg - Aurora Beam
Egg - Stockpile
Egg - Spit Up


New Ability

Water Bubble: Lowers the power of Fire-type moves done to the Pokémon and prevents the Pokémon from getting burned.

Pretty random and not very useful stats. Shame, too; I really like how it looks.

Normie stats here:

Primarina @ Primarium Z
Ability: Torrent
Nature: Bold / Relaxed / Modest / Quiet / Calm / Sassy
Sparkling Aria - Oceanic Operetta
Moonblast / Dazzling Gleam
Sing?
Attract?

Raichu @ Aloraichium Z
Ability: Surge Surfer
Nature: Modest / Calm / Bold
Thunderbolt - Stoked Sparksurfer
Psyshock
Reflect
Electric Terrain?

Toxapex @ Waterium Z / Poisonium Z
Ability: Merciless
Nature: Calm / Sassy / Careful
Poison Jab / Sludge Wave
Liquidation / Surf
Recover / Venom Drench
Baneful bunker / Toxic / Toxic Spikes

Salazzle @ Firium Z / Poisonium Z
Ability: Corrosion
Nature: Modest / Mild / Rash
Sludge Bomb
Flamethrower
Venom Drench / Protect
Attract

Tsareena @Wide Lens / Zoom Lense / Grassium Z / Fightinium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Nature: Adamant / Impish / Jolly / Careful
Trop Kick
High Jump Kick?
Substitute?
Sweet Scent / Tether Dance

Ninetales @ Icium Z
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Bold / Timid / Modest / Calm
Ice Beam – Subzero Slammer
Dazzling Gleam
Hail
Aurora Veil

Tsareena
Jolly/Adamant
Choice Scarf
252att/252spe
Trop Kick
U turn
High jump kick
Acrobatics for catching bugs.

Comfey @ leftovers
Ability: triage
252 hp/ 252 Def
Leech seed/ toxic
Grassy terrain
Aromatherapy/taunt/u turn
Floral healing

Any ideas for a Guzzlord set?

>eviolite nerf
>unaware nerf
>tfw gen 7 killed stall

>>29795810
it's focus punch except you still attack if hit

>>29794907
defog's an egg move for rowlet

>>29796372
Rest talk crunch dragon tail, tfw no knock off

>>29795869
maybe for PU a physical attacker with defensive investments and an assault vest can work since it has high SpD. honestly thats the best it can do.

>>29796374
I didn't hear about these. Is there a list of "competitive" changes?

>>29796702
i dunno the full list but the eviolite nerf has yet to be confirmed

unaware works offensively only

When can you catch Ditto to start breeding?

lycanroc midday with life orb/cband

swords dance/stone edge
accelrock
brick break
crunch

>>29795623
He just needs one agility and then can go to town.

>>29795096
How can you see the moves?

>>29796372
Something I've been working on

Guzzlord @ Leftovers
Careful 252HP/252SpDef/4Def
Crunch/Dragon Tail/Rest/Sleep Talk

or

Guzzlord @ Z-Crystal
Adamant 252HP/252Att/4SpDef
Crunch/Dragon Claw/Stockpile/Heavy Slam

Standard RestTalk is standard. Dark/Dragon is better for taking special attacks so emphasis on that. Dragon Tail for shuffling.

The other set relies on Z-Move Stockpile being a one-use 100% heal as well as a +1 to defenses. Heavy Slam works on hitting fairies on the switch with Guzzlord's massive weight and maybe getting a Beast Boost on the switch.

Anyone got a list of the new moves?

>>29797257
>Cottonee used Fairy Wind!

That Toxapex is including the Tapus and the UB the only real OU worthy Pokemon of all the new introduced things is really depressing.

There's a few workable things here and there like Kommo-o, Salazzle and Golisopod but in general most things are utterly mediocre or outright shitmons is baffling. Even taking doubles into account most things are utterly disappointing. The barren movepools are what hit me most.

>Lycanroc has no EQ
>The Tapus don't learn fucking Play Rough

Jesus. What the hell was going on through GF head this time?

>>29797437
they wanted to change the meta since next vgc is alola mons

still poorly implemented and with a lot of wasted potential and bad ideas

>>29797504
I'll never get how someone in Gamefreak actually thought "Let's make tons of shitmon, that'll make people want to pick them over the Pokemon that are already good and will balance the meta".

And then that's just one year. The year after? It'll be back to Nationaldex with megas allowed. So making everything bad to "balance" VGC is pretty pointless in the long-run. I really don't get it, I truly do not.

>>29797556
the only hope is more diverse movesets for them in some way some point in the future.

of course even that won't fix the fact that they're all slow. Maybe they'll give other mons like golisopod and vikavolt abilities replacement for a new HA that'll save them.

>>29795492

Kind of interested in this one too if anyone could field it

>>29797556

It's sad that you idea of "shitmon" is "anything that's not OU"

>>29797672
Good job completely dismissing the part where I said "Even taking doubles into account most things are utterly disappointing" just so you could feel superior about me somehow.

>>29797672
not him, honestly most of these seem RU or lower.

they're just too slow with their usefulness being outclased by pokemon from past gens. Also they're mostly frail so slow and frail. But who knows, nobody will be able to tell till later.

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Golisopod @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sword Dance
- Aqua Jet
- First Impression
- Sucker Punch

I'm not a competitive player by any means, but this seems like fun and Golisopod is my nigga so here's what I came up with. Choice Scarf your Sword Dance until you get hit enough to switch out, switch back in and priority the fuck out of everything to death. There's only 6 pokemon not covered by his moveset.

>>29797437
I don't think it's bad at all from a doubles perspective, that's my preferred meta and I'm looking forward to trying these things out. Some stuff is unsalvageable or has no use, but I can see niches for most things.

It IS bad from a singles perspective. Only a few mons are just right. The others are either useless or in some cases busted as fuck (Pheromosa, kartana, and I would argue marshadow but we'll see)

>>29797703
you know boosts are reset when he switches out.

>>29797720
Is it? Shit, my inexperience is showing.

>>29797703
choice scarf locks you into one move and all of those are priority which beats the purpose

also switching out takes away boosts so sword dance plus scarf is useless.

>>29797703
Why the hell do you wanna use SD with this thing?

>>29797729
True, this was just the first thought that came to mind.

>>29797742
Didn't know stat boosts reset, time to think of another moveset.

>>29797691

Yeah, how could I forget the only two formats of the game, doubles and OU.

>>29797771
forgot to say
>choice scarf locks you into a move but boosts speed and all of those are priority which beats the purpose

but yeah you get the point

>>29797706
Marshadow's existence baffles me. In a generation where nearly everything has barren movepools, is monotype or has shitty typing and last but not least pathetic stats with awful distributions the thing is a magical wonder who has everything.

>Good movepool
>Good ability with a movepool to abuse it
>God-tier typing
>Unique attack that's actually not gimmicky and uses the boosts it steals on the turn it does instead of the next turn
>Fast, hits like a truck, but still has enough bulk to take a hit
>He's also cute as fuck and a kamen rider

I find it hard to believe this little fucker made by the same people who created the rest of Alola Pokemon.

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Buzzswole @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Leech Life
- Superpower
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/ Ice Punch/ Poison Jab

Could also go for speed investment since its not that slow

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>>29792678
r8 n h8 my singles RestTalk Guzzlord

Guzzlord @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 126 Def / 126 Sp. Def
Careful/Sassy Nature
- Rest
- Crunch
- Sleep Talk
- Stockpile

>252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. +1 252 HP / 126 Def Hydreigon: 153-181 (23.5 - 27.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

>252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Focus Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 126+ SpD Hydreigon: 298-352 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

>252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. +1 252 HP / 126 Def Hydreigon: 326-386 (50.1 - 59.3%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

>252+ SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. +3 252 HP / 126+ SpD Hydreigon: 504-592 (77.5 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

After one stockpile boost it becomes near impossible to bring down with neutral or super effective hits.
Also note how a modest Pixalate Hyper Voice from M-Garde still can't OHKO after full Stockpiling.

You can bring him in late game to take out weakened pokemon to get additional attack boosts from Beast Boost to make Crunch even stronger. (Assuming Beast Boost doesn't just heal his HP or something)

It's the ultimate final boss in Singles.

>>29798762
God this thing is beefy!
Just wondering why you'd ever use Sassy as a nature?

>>29798762
maxing both of guzzlord's defensive EVs is almost entirely superior to that spread, barring fixed damage moves (that something with 223 base hp obviously isn't scared of)

>>29798997
Sassy gives to Sp.Def but takes from Speed iirc.
It's slow as balls with 43 base so Sassy a good option too.
You can run a physically defensive set too but it's probably going to be pelted with special attacks more often

>>29795042
it gets defiant close combat

i can see a scarf set getting use in UU at least

>>29799015
Good point. The HP is titanic as-is with no investment, so maxing Def and Sp. Def would be much more scarier. I'll have to run calcs again to see for sure

>>29792844
Tank means it's bulky and hits hard. Wall means something defensive

>>29799042
I just think it's 100% better to run careful in this case, since that takes from Sp Atk instead. Especially in this slow-ass gen haha.

That said, not a huge deal. Just losing speed no reason is bad.

Vikavolt
Ability: Levitate
EV's: 252 Spec Attack, 252 HP 6 Def
Item: Electric Z Crystal
Thunderbolt/Volt Switch
Mud Shot
Energy Ball
Bug Buzz

It's slow as shit, but it can get decent coverage. Maybe HP water would be better but like this it hits a lot of the most common types. The Z Crystal could be replaced with Life Orb if you want consistent damage, or Specs if you absolutely have to get those sick frags.

Defensive EV's to help it survive. It has decent defenses so as long as you switch it in against something that doesn't have a strong fire or rock type move, it should survive and deal massive damage in retaliation.

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>>29792678
Silvally @ Dragon Memory
Timid/Modest Nature
4 HP, 252 S. Atk, 252 Spe
-Draco Meteor
-Flamethrower
-Parting Shot
-Thunder Wave

Only possible useful set he has.

>Competitively viable
>Merciless
no

It will run Regenerator in comp, guaranteed. Merciless will be an interesting ability for Showderp, nothing else.

I think it needs something like
>Toxic
>Recover
>Scald
>Tspikes

Tspikes to get things done, Toxic to wear down the things which will try to set up on it, scald for burns and taunt, and recover/regenerator to try to stall out turns.

Although its bulk is great, it's pretty predictable and doesn't have any real power. It's reliant on status to get anything done. In spite of its great stats and ability, I wonder how useful it will end up being outside of VGC2017.

>>29793574
for some fucking reason this thing doesnt get focus blast so you are walled to hell by tran unless you run like hp ground or some shit
fire blast, sludge wave mandatory, np/sub work well as third and then hp ground just seems so necessary cause you have no other way to touch tran
i reckon this thing is gonna be pretty good, it's like a better version of helioisk

>>29795492
Unfortunately that awful speed means it can't do very much in higher tiers.

>>29794007
is the empowered version of soul shackle a permanent thing like mean look or is it just for one turn? if it's just for one turn then this wont work particularly well

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For Doubles

>Passimian
>Defiant
>Protect
>Close Combat
>Iron Head
>EQ


>Shiinotic
>Strength Sap
>Spore
>Giga Drain
>Moonblastr

Still just a concept, but basically you can use Strength Sap on your Defiantmon to recover health and boost their attack. After a boost, you can probably recover your full health bar just by sapping them. It's a shame Passimian doesn't learn Rock Slide or anything.
I guess it also works with Contrarymons, but mantisfu isn't great stat-wise.

>>29800166
>you are walled to hell by tran unless you run like hp ground or some shit
You could always try running Toxic on it, even with its offensive stats. When they expect Nasty Plot or STAB, you can nail it on the switch.

>>29799946
defensive fairy one is also good.

>>29800578
What would you even run on that?

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As it doesn't learn any recovering moves besides FUCKING Rest, then I think an Assault Vest is the best item for it.

Turtonator @ Assaul Vest
Bold
252 HP
252 Def
4 SpA
- Shell Trap / Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Filler

Shell Trap is the best move it has, but requires that it recives a Physical hit and might have low PP.

Flash Cannon is mainly to counter Rock-types, which it is weak to.

Its movepool is shallow so I couldn't find a fourth move.

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>>29800662
>>29800578
>Silvally
>Not Type:Null @ Eviolite

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Komala @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Return

Okay, just hear me out on this one.

This build gives Komala three safe switch-ins. The first is based on its type: Komala can easily switch in on a Ghost attack. The second is Comatose, which allows Komala to switch in on any status attack, as well as if the opponent happens to be trying to set up Toxic Spikes. The third, thanks to this EV investment, is Special Attacks. Komala’s SpD is, surprisingly, very usable.

So, you get Komala out on an opponent that now has to switch to something better built to handle it. On this switch, you Substitute. Your opponent attacks you, probably with a Physical attack, and breaks the Substitute, and you Sub again. Do this a third time, and your Liechi Berry kicks in, raising your attack. As this third sub is broken, use Swords Dance, and proceed to cause some damage with a +3 Sucker Punch. Slower opponent? Sub still up? Any other opportunity for some nice, slow, raw damage? Let’s use Return for some sheer power.

OU worthy? Probably not. UU? I think this can work well.

>>29795096
I just had a thought: could Weakness Policy potentially be triggered when Mimikyu's Disguise is broken? I was contemplating a Baton Pass set that could take advantage of Choice locked Pokémon or walls that it outspeed to sub up and boost, and being able to pop off Weakness Policy for free could make for a really good team player.

>>29800816
Null doesn't get parting shot and normal typing is shit.

>>29800814
>Not running Jolly/Timid with max offenses/speed and shell smash
Step the fuck up fampai.

>>29794007
These types of sets make me think it will be UU while having a super tight niche in OU that normies won't reconize.

>>29795869
Water Bubble sounds like it's really good on Scizor

>>29801245
Scizor doesn't get water bubble though?

>>29801168
>shell smash with negative 3 speed
good luck with that

>>29795184
The datamine video says it takes the ability of a defeated ally

>>29801269
>negative 3 speed
Nigga what

>>29801269
Shell Trap has -3 priority

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Minior@ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Acrobatics
- Shell Smash

My Toxapex set:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 140 Def / 60 SpA / 12 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Baneful Bunker
Note:
-12+ SpD EV survived 252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus’s Thunderbolt
-60 SpA EV can OHKO Landorus-T if Landorus-T poisoned
-44 Atk EV 2-hit KO 252 HP / 4 Def Gigalith with Leftover and poison damage
-Baneful Bunker to spread the Poison, also for protection

-----for Support-----

Salazzle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Corrosion
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb / Venoshock
- Flamethrower / Encore
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Poison Gas
- Fake Out / Protect
Note:
-244 Ev is enough to outspeed 252+ Spe Mega Rayquaza
-Poison Gas is good for supporting Pokemon that use Venoshock like Toxapex and can hit both opponent Pokemon

>>29795716
I think bulletproof is better generally. Soundproof doesn't really mitigate its fairy weakness as its only blocking hyper voice and mega garde and sylveon usually run a psychic move anyway. Mega garde is faster as well. This thing really needs dragon dance. Its too slow and its bulk isn't as impressive as it looks because of its mediocre hp. It's only just slightly bulkier than garchomp and garchomp doesn't need setup to hit hard and fast. It's fighting stab moves are rather pitiful too

>>29801262
entrainment

>>29797703
Nigga just slap an Ass Vest on it, max HP and Atk, and give it 4 attacks

can someone post dewpider's sprite?

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Passimian @ Life Orb?
Ability: Receiver
252 Attack / 252 Speed
Jolly
Protect
Close Combat
Earthquake
Rock Slide/Iron Head I suppose

Lead with a CB Ninjask, do as much damage as possible, send in Passimian, receive Speed Boost and hopefully win.
How's my gimmick?

>>29801396
Minior looks pretty busted, honestly. Can't wait to try it out.

>>29797504
>make a bunch of shitmons to "balance" the meta
>Garchomp, Metagross, Salamence, and others are still legal

Incineroar @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 112 HP / 112 Atk / 32 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Leech Life
- Darkest Lariat
- Earthquake

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>>29792678
I notice a lack of special attackers in this generation.

>>29803198
They're there, their movepools are just trash. See special Minior and Vikavolt.
Both Palossand and Salazzle look pretty solid, though.

>>29803198
Silvally will only really play well as a special attacker. It's physical pool is crap.

>>29794880
i like it

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No one's really discussing this little guy yet...

Ribombee @ Life Orb
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Timid/Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball
- Bug Buzz/Pollen Puff

Pollen Puff heals an Ally instead of damaging them if you target them, otherwise it does the same damage as Bug Buzz. The only reason why you should/would use it over Bug Buzz was if Soundproof becomes more prevalent. But I'm not sure if Pollen Puff gets through Bulletproof atm.
Baton Pass build:

Ribombee @ Leftovers
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Bold/Calm Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Baton Pass
- Aromatheorapy/Roost/Stun Spore/Toxic
- U-Turn/Roost
Defensive Support build:

Ribombee @ Leftovers
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Bold/Calm Nature
- Roost
- Stun Spore/Toxic
- Aromatheorapy
- U-Turn
The more I look at this little guy, the more I see it was designed for Double Battles mainly, so here's a doubles build:

Ribombee @ Leftovers
Ability: Sweet Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Bold/Calm Nature
- Protect/Quiver Dance
- Stun Spore/Toxic
- Dazzling Gleam/Toxic/Stun Spore
- Pollen Puff

Maybe Speed Swap for a slower partner? Otherwise, this little cutiebug has got a lot of possible potential ahead of it imo.
Also, why are you guys putting Mental Herb on Minior? The defensive debuff won't matter when Shields Down happens, it'll still die to threats like Scizor Bullet Punch and Azumarill Aqua Jet with or without the debuff out of it's shell

>>29803411
Multi-attack is a physical move. It doesn't have anything else going for it.

>>29804095
No one is discussing the fact that Z-Aromatherapy also boosts all stats.

>>29804134
Those types of Z-Moves are really going to revolutionize the meta, such as the splash one as well.

Also, i thought there was 2 types of Z-crystals datamined. Real and minor crystals, if the minor ones do exist, are they consumable? If so, doing a Flying minor one on Minior with acrobatics will be the absolute nuts, especially if it works like Flying Gem did.

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>>29792678
I have a team concept for Doubles in mind for this upcoming VGC.

For the strategy to work, I need a high-momentum offensive opening of 2 pokemon.
The goal is to kill 2 pokemon as immediately as possible.

I am looking for gimmicks, or just plain strong offensive pokemon, that would be able to accomplish this. Does anyone have any ideas?

Things I'm checking out:

A-golem electric terrain boosted STAB explosion

Earthquake spam in general

Surf + Rain spam

>>29804134
because it doesnt, it restores hp
the "boost all stats" moves are all either signature to a specific line or event restricted

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>>29804134
>mega lopunny gets splash

>>29804895
>mega
>z move

Nice joke

>>29794007
>Go Chansey!

>>29792678

>max attack

Throw that set in the trash where it belongs

>>29795358

I know you didn't just really put Play Rough as a slash. Play Rough is a must

Are VGC generals gonna come back? I'm looking forward to trying some new mons and strats this season.

I'm really liking Salazzle, it might replace Gengar as my swiss army knife support mon. Great movepool with Fake Out, WoW, Taunt, Encore, hell, even Swagger or Disable could see use. All of this coming off something faster than Gengar, with an immunity to Taunt and a Sludge Bomb that still hits for decent damage. I was looking at it as a glass cannon but the support options are real.

Anything good can be done with my boy Marowak?

>>29792678
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Renegerator
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Infestation
- Haze
- Recover

>>29799987
>it's pretty predictable

>Toxic
>Toxic Spikes
>Baneful Bunker
>Infestation
>Recover
>Haze
>Light Screen
>Venoshock
>Ice Beam
>Scald
>Liquidation

yeah very predicatable

>>29799511
What are Vikavolts stats?

Where can I find a list of the leaked stats and moves?

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>>29807896
>Poison-status-inflicting moves
>water/poison moves
>One screen and Haze
>A couple of other damage options (end of turn damage, ice beam)
It's not a lot. Every set will have recover. Every set will have a way of inflicting poison. Every set will have a weak water/poison move, most likely scald or venoshock depending upon which ability it chooses.

How to make Golisopod's ability good:
>Emergency Exit announces the enemy move, then switches it before it gets hit
>in return, the ability won't work if Golisopod just switched in in the same turn, so it can't be spammed for instant double switches
thoughts?

>>29807177
Marowak is unfortunately still garbage. I have heard it might become quite useful in PU/NU if you're into that.

>>29808024
now pair that with rocky helmet and regenerator.

It's literally the best typing money can ask for with the best abilties and ridiculoulsy good defenses. None of the UBs, keldeo, fairies, greninja, and practically every overhyped threat can power through it. If this thing had 130 base attack/special, on top of that it would be broken.

>>29793030
You could probably use a choice item with it's ability for some nice gimmickry.
You could band it so it can fire off a strong aqua jet before getting sent back, or scarf it to do the same thing with liquidation

>>29808116
I didn't say that it didn't have any uses. I said that it's predictable.

Additionally, it's pretty much destroyed by a moderately-bulky Substitute. It really struggles with things which can't be/don't care about poison.

It will get used, but I don't think it's as good as many people expect it to be.

>>29808024
not really 4 moveslot syndrome,

it's typical counters being ground would want to be scalded.

no one wants to come in on venoshock if it has offensive ability bar special steels.

and recover is unnessary for pivot toxipex with regenertor.

stall ones can infestation trap you and recover.

If this isn't in practically every team, 2 of the ubs are gonna be banned to ubers

>>29808177
I agree sub is very strong counter to this

>>29808210
>recover is unnessary on a regenerator mon
There's a reason Slowbro always has slack off and Tangrowth almost always has seeds and/or giga drain. Ho-oh always has roost, but that's also for rocks. Amoongus almost always has synthesis. The only Regenerator mon I can think of off the top of my head which can, but often doesn't, carry recovery is Corsola, but I think that's because Corsola is so niche that you would only use it if you already had a gimmick set in mind.

Venoshock is really not all that damaging. If you're not poisoned, it's going to do trivial damage on a neutral hit. It requires two turns to set up (or tspikes, which makes it harder to force anything out because you may not be carrying Toxic) and does less-than-impressive damage off of such a low special stat. It will probably carry venoshock, but it's not going to be something anyone is afraid of switching in on. Burn and poison are more damaging, but you can only have one - if you put down tspikes, you can't burn ground types. If you carry Toxic instead, your venoshock isn't dangerous to switches.

>>29808116
Will we see Xurkitree legal in OU as a toxipex breaker?

sorry to be offtopic but how the fuck do I evolve Crabrawler?

>>29808408
I think Xurkitree has uber potential. With Scarf and Beast Boosts it could quickly start sweeping if ground types are gone.

>>29804552
Explosion effect allies too in doubles, so you could pair up that Golam with a ground type/volt absorb/lightningrod/motor drive and switch out to it after setting up ET.

>there's no chance for your alola bro
Sorry Faticate

>>29808210
>>29808358
I think you should just go liquidation with merciless and scald with regenerator. No need for the silly venoshock set up.

>>29793850
Pretty good but why scald. It seems the whole point of this pokemon is to be bulky and poison the opponent so whats the point in burn. I say the moveset should be more like this:
Venoshock
Baneful bunker
Recover
Toxic spikes

>>29801662
hypervoice immunity tho

>>29795013
It's bullshit that there's only one physical fairy move in the first place. Pretty sure it's the only type that's so specifically special or physical.

What are these Z-versions of splash, aromatherapy and curse I keep hearing about?

pls respond

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>>29792678
Porygon-Z @ Normalium-Z
Nature: Timid
Ability: Adaptability
4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Shadow Ball
Z-Conversion
Hidden Power Fighting
Psyshock / Recover

-Use Z-Conversion to get +1 to all your stats and change to Ghost type (Conversion turns it whatever type its first move is)
-160 BP Shadow Ball after STAB + Adaptability
-Z Stones work like mega stones so Knock Off is weak on it

or

Porygon-Z @ Normalium-Z
Timid: Nature
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Recover / Psyshock
Conversion

Z-Conversion is the best thing that's ever happened to this nigga.

>>29794080
Can mimikyu reuse its ability if it switches out ?

>>29794539
I keep seeing that,but how does that work ?
Does it keep the same animation as usual, same animation as the ghost Z-move ?

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>>29810109
I think if you're going to bother poisoning things for merciless, you may as well have Venoshock. Personally, I think Merciless is pretty much useless, and I intend to have only Scald on mine, but it definitely is its strongest attack. I get what you're getting at, though.

>>29810723
No, that would be near broken if you had two mimikyus allowing infinite stall.

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>>29810689
Seconded. Its defenses aren't that much lower than Porygon2's, and it's going to be pretty crazy considering that it can get STAB on most common offensive types. It just can't switch out. It's like Greninja, but more balanced.

Speaking of which, Greninja learns Happy Hour, which has the same Z effect
Other mons which learn Z-moves with the same effect: all Eeveelutions, Ho-oh, Rayquaza, Gyarados, Jirachi, and some shitmons.

>>29810427
Thread's long now, so i don't blame you for not reading the whole discussion chain.

Full Poison means being completely walled by Steel and Poison types. Liquidation in the OP set, and Scald in the updated Special set, gives options for those that can't be poisoned.

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>>29810662
http://pastebin.com/d5Hed1cw
Z-effects are applied prior to the move's normal effect, so Z-Curse (ghost) fully heals the user before cutting their health in half - it can be used at any health level and will always leave you at 50%.
Z-Splash is a shitty gimmick which is inferior to a regular boosting move in most situations - boosts attack 3 stages, but can only be used once per battle and is otherwise dead weight.

>>29811233
I can see Z-Splash being used on Azumarill as a less effective, but safer, alternative to its Belly Drum set.

>>29811269
It may as well just use Z-Belly Drum.

Is Eviolite Type: Null a better Porygon2? How is it in terms of movepool?

>>29811178
>Jirachi
This one's going to be a fucking nightmare

>>29811301
No Recover and worse movepool than Silvally

>>29811301
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/type-null-silvally-discussion.3586471/
It's bulkier, but it has a worse ability (in my opinion) and it looks like it has to rely on resttalk for recovery - a complete waste of its bulk.

>>29811329
I think that phazing will be a lot more common in Gen 7 to get rid of these one-time boosts. If you can phaze them as they boost, they can't even deal damage and become completely useless with only 3 moves and no item.
Some Z-moves are useful outside of the boost, like Psycho Shift Latios (Z-Psycho Shift -> +2 SpA) but I think that it's possible some of them will be less impressive than they seem.
I haven't looked into it, but I'm pretty sure that, since moves like Happy Hour are exclusively from events, there will be some restrictions on what moves they can have (Jirachi can't breed).

>>29795444
i was thinking about running furcoat alolan persian with nasty plot, dark pulse, power gem and u-turn

>>29811301
I'm disappointed in the Silvally line. The only thing it really has going for it is that it's the fastest Parting Shot user. Stick a scarf on it and muh mentum your way to victory.

>>29795587
would it be worth running brave nature and power gem over stone edge?

feels like you'll be able to get 2 smashes of before losing shields and wont have to deal with stone edge missing

>>29792678
Incineroar @ Lum berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 hp / 252 atk / 4 spd
Brave Nature
- Darkest Lariat/Crunch for flinch chance
- Flare blitz
- Fake Out
- Protect

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I had a good idea.

Komala @ Choice Scarf
Comatose

Sleep Talk
Facade
Earthquake/Rock Slide/Brick Break/U Turn/Wood Hammer/Shadow Claw
Earthquake/Rock Slide/Brick Break/U Turn/Wood Hammer/Shadow Claw

>>29808693
>Tapu Koko
>Use protect
>blow the fuck up
Granted, it's easily predicted and will only work in the first match. They'll definitely bring something with Wide Guard or just double Protect for round 2

>>29812463
>Facade
Make that return, turns out sleep doesn't boost Facade for some reason.
Anyway, idea is to get locked into Sleep Talk and enjoy the ability to use several moves even with the scarf boost. Finally, a choice user which maintains unpredictability.

>>29812463
Its ability makes it always stay asleep?

>>29812463
Don't need Sleep Talk m8, the little guy can attack while asleep just fine

>>29812599
>Choice Scarf
It's a gimmick set.

Would Komala work well on an electric terrain team?

>>29812614
Ah, I see. Seems kind of silly but I hope it works out for you/him.

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Is there a way to make it work?

>>29812463
At first I was like 'Sleep talk for what purpose' and then realised the crooked genius.

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Can someone make Tsareena viable?

>>29813019
Yes, Gamefreak employees.

But they decided not to.

I read that Golisopods ability passes buffs to the switch in. Is this true

Where do I even find Mareanie? Apparently it's in the Diglett Cave, but there's no water there.

>>29793574
I'm pretty casual so maybe I'm missing something, but why would you run dragon pulse? Seems kinda like a wasted slot since it's BP is not exceedingly high (although not bad), and it's only SE against one type and you don't get STAB. It's not gonna hit that hard.

>>29813800

I'm assuming it's either for neutral coverage or to deal with Bulletproof Kommo'o or something. I don't see the point either, I'd rather put WoW on this thing.

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What's the best you can do for pic related?

>>29811675
It doesn't even get that. The fastest Parting Shot user is Alolan Persian.

>>29814076
she'll probably be amazing in doubles with her passive stopping proitity

>>29814220
priority*

>>29793393
you probably want to give it something besides leaf blade as it's not very good at hitting things immune to toxic which is the crux of your set

>>29813209
no

>>29811797
I wouldn't recommend this. 60/100/100 defenses aren't actually enough to survive strong hits after taking Def/SpD drops, and without split investment the power difference between using Stone Edge and Power Gem would be massive.

Honestly I think getting into the Shields Down range is tricky enough to activate that choosing not to run Substitute is a habit that will die off after some time. Minior will have to find a place with 2 attacks.

>>29793574
You can't even use Oblivious. Hidden abilities are off-limits in this game right now.

I also don't think it's useful on Salazzle. Offensive Pokemon are going to be OHKOing it whether they have their boosts or not.

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>>29797703
>choice scarf
>boosting move
>priority attacks
What in the fuck was going through your head when you came up with this set? Holy shit.

>>29814361

Swords Dance has a use in that people might switch out predicting the First Impression/Sucker Punch and then you fuck them with a boosted Aqua Jet or force them out under the threat of Sucker.

It's gimmicky but it's not exactly bad.

>>29814423
you cant use aquajet after swords dance you fucking retard

are you seriously implying you have swords dance as BLUFF

>>29814439

I didn't see the Scarf. That's retarded. But a boosting move is fine.

>>29807949
Vikavolt has 43 speed, 90 Def, 145 Spec Attk.

Can't remember the rest right now. It has no Gunk Shot/Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Water moves though.

>>29810427

Entirely useless against Steel types, which are quite common in competitive play. Gotta have something to chew them up with.

>>29794080
Pretty much what I was planning.

>>29795869
It has two ways to trap enemies, and it can wear down an enemy while lowering their attack with its signature move Lunge. I think its stats will make this strategy a little more viable. Then they send in a special attacker afterward, and it can survive any special hit and counter with Mirror Coat. It may seem counterproductive to Mirror Coat on a 132 SpD Pokemon but it really is not, they take a very large amount of damage in return either way (because Mirror Coat doubles it) and its ability to survive the hit ensures it more. I have experience running tanky Mirror Coat sets on Showdown and they become more reliable on high SpD Pokemon if anything.

It'll just be one of those rarely seen low-tier Pokemon that can still take on a useful role as team glue in an OU team that suits it. Its usage will put it in NU most likely though.

>>29812697
It gets both rocks and t-spikes, and with its great special bulk and speed it will be fairly proficient in support

Wouldn't take it too seriously as an offensive threat, its special movepool is merely okay and it can't boost without KO'ing or Charge Beam

>>29803197
Incineroar doesn't have Intimidate at this time.

>>29797703
7/10 ruse.

>>29796090
>This movepool
Jesus, is this queen too legit to quit?

>>29802566
Fuck, I am most definitely using this set. Decent typing that makes predictions pretty easy combined with some nice artificial defense and that natural attack could at least set this guy up for some nasty revenge kills.

>>29804095
Ribombee learns Quiver Dance?!

>>29805322
Something tells me you didn't think this post through.

>>29808089
Emergency Exit is already good. It guarantees you at least two First Impressions, maybe three or four if you give it decent bulk.

>>29812507
>next year's VGC
>bring in normal raichu with feint and alola golem
>ALOLA SNACKBAHR

>>29813873
I was going for neutral coverage on tyranitar, though it admittedly doesn't take much damage from dragon pulse. WoW would probably be better. Maybe even toxic for tran, as others have suggested.

>>29816912

Yeah if T-Tar comes in it's either going to be D-Dance, D-Dance Mega, bulky D-Dance/Mega, or Scarfed. If it's Scarfed it might Pursuit, or it might double switch out predicting your switch. If it's D-Dance, it'll either go for the quick kill or D-Dance on the predicted switch.

Having WoW allows you to at least go out with a fuck-you unless it's Scarfed and they just go for the kill. Really this thing has a lot of good options.

>Sludge Bomb/Wave
>Flamethrower/Fire Blast
>Toxic
>WoW
>Taunt
>Nasty Plot

>>29814341
It was mostly because corrosion wasn't doing anything, so I figured I may as well give it oblivious to avoid taunts (I think you're thinking of unaware). Would probably never come into effect, but it's better than having no ability with corrosion.

Of course, now that I know oblivious is unobtainable, all this is meaningless. Still, thanks for the heads up. If pokemon from Alola can't have HAs, toxapex might not be as good as we thought...

>>29816986

Corrosion lets you Toxic shitters like Heatran or really any Steel they switch in. But it's less useful than it sounds because you could just Fire Blast Ferrothorn's asshole, and every other Steel just hates being slapped with WoW. It's basically for Heatran and Skarm only.

I wish they just went all out with Corrosion and made it 100% nullify Steel's immunity to Poison type moves.

>>29816986

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Salazzle relatively fast? Only Sanic speed Taunters will really be shutting it down, or Prankster Sab. Both its abilities are good, but situational. I would give Corrosion the edge though.

Get fucked Heatran.
Get fucked metalbird.
Get fucked boo-boo keys.

>>29817057
I get what corrosion does, it just wasn't doing anything on the nasty plot + 3 attacks set.
It'd be incredible if it ignored steel's poison immunity, though. Kind of a shame they didn't do that for such a frail pokemon.

>>29804589
Where can I find the effects of all the status Z moves?

>>29797703
>Not using AV with STAB Leech Life

Nice meme bro.

>>29817127
It would let the Sludge Bomb poison any Poison-typed targets, since unlike Steel they're not immune to Poison attacks themselves.

>>29811233
>Baton Pass
>resets stats then switches out
Useless

>>29818789
Apparently, according to someone on Smogon who helped put together the Z-move list, it only resets negative stat changes, like White Herb does. Still very rarely likely to be useful - White Herb is almost always a superior choice. For things like Shell Smash, the immediate defense recovery is vastly preferable, unless you think you can get off two or more smashes before passing.

>>29795184
>Air balloon Alolan muk used crunch on ally Shedinja

>>29795869
Spider Web
Toxic
Soak
Leech Life

>>29819086
The new meme set in doubles is going to be
Alolan Muk @ Air Balloon
Protect
Filler
Filler
Rest

Shedinja @ Choice Scarf
Final Gambit
Sandstorm

Final Gambit fails if they protect, so you have SS to guarantee a death. Z-moves go through protect, so it's not perfect, but they still need ground moves to do anything.

Anyone has something on Oranguru?

>>29819255
In addition to this, you can also Trick it an air balloon with one of your later mons if you want to. There are a number of prankster mons which learn Trick, so you just need to watch out for greater-than-+1 priority moves and Gravity.

>>29819296
Here you go

Oranguru @ Choice Scarf

Instruct

Is bread still alive? Can I get some feedback on this shitty owl?

Decidueye @ Deciduem-Z
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 S.Def
Jolly, Long reach
-Spirit Shackle
-Sucker Punch
-Swords Dance
-Roost

>>29819939
It's a shitty owl

>>29797797
Sadly is mythical so no VGC for this little boy (tbqh is one of the best in the gen)

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>>29819939
Its stats don't really lend itself to any sort of good set. That's probably as good as any. If you're planning on using it competitively, its only real niche is Defog, to be honest. If you're looking for an all-out-attacker ghost/grass type, the anchor mon has higher attack, gets a steel-type clone of Spirit Shackle (which Normal-types aren't immune to), and gets pseudo-STAB on steel moves due to its ability. It also gets Rapid Spin, just as an additional "fuck you" to Decidueye

How about Wishiwashi? I'm thinking about a meme set with leftovers and Aqua Ring but still not sure

>>29819939
owl is probably gonna be best run as a wallbreaker/bp hybrid
so a more defensive spread and baton pass over sucker punch

>>29794605
The ability description is wrong. Unaware works as normal.

>>29793551
Did they set up Tapu Koko to be the best Pokemon in the region intentionally or what. Everything else looks like it was designed haphazardly (including the other legends which may be viable/ubers) but this one looks like something made for Smogon OU specifically, like they want it to be the next Landorus.

>>29819296
Well, it gets trick room and only has base 60 speed, so maybe you could make something work there?

In singles, I guess you could try calm mind or nasty plot with stored power, though slowking outclasses it.

>>29820104
I predict a lot of chesto berry + rest wishiwashies.

>>29796735
That Unaware thing was deconfirmed.
>>29814772

>>29820181
Decidyeye @ Deciduem-Z / Lefties
252 HP / 180 Atk / 78 S.Def
Adamant / Careful Nature.
- Spirit Shackle
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Roost

like this?

>>29820104
aqua ring/3 moves
z-mist/3 moves
chesto resto/three moves
resttalk/2 moves
all options
im not really sure where its gonna end up but it has a very lacking movepool so theres like two things it can viably run in the third slot regardless

>>29820208
>115/95/130 base offenses
>no physical Fairy STAB
>has to rely on fucking Wild Charge for physical STAB
I wouldn't say it's tailor made for OU. Even it has some serious holes.

>>29816560
What is it?

>>29820376
something like that
shackling down something nonthreatening and then boosting in its face will be pretty good, and then you can just pass off to whatevers in the best position to take advantage if killing the trapped thing will get you revenge killed
youre not gonna want to stay in on things that shackle doesnt hit anyway so monoattack is mostly fine here

>>29793574
use hidden power ice over dragon pulse buddy

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>No move tutors

My bro will get Knock Off next game right..

>>29820077
Anchor doesn't get BP though

>>29821798
What is Decidueye even surviving to Baton Pass? It takes 2 hits while trapping something, survives by an absolute miracle, and that's it, he's finished for the duration of the match?

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How is this? I tried to salvage Vikavolt as much as possible

Vikavolt @ Thunderium-Z/Life Orb
4 Def/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Agility
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball

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Can someone tell me what the best way to run a pyukumuku would be? The thing looks like an annoying gimmickmon, but I want to give it a shot.

>>29801600
>Using Focus Sash
>Not using Nasty plot

Whats the point of the focus sash if your not using it set up a sweeper. And another thing Salazzle can poison ANYONE, why are you not running Toxic??

Moveset should be:
-Toxic
-Flamethrower
-Sludge Bomb
-Nasty Plot

Use Nasty plot while focus sash and just sweep. If you can't one shot it, Toxic it.

Is the Koala pokemon any good or just a trashmon?

>>29823627
Could make for a decent rapid spinner and wish passer in lower tiers.

>>29808622
Yeah, plus electric isn't weak to any priority so it'll be quite a pain to revenge.

>>29814245
Yeah, I could imagine a slow set with some trick room mons.