/domg/ - Dominions General

>>175186929
what's the best nation to make arrows rain?

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>>175187112
Machaka.

>>175187112
Vanarus

>>175187323
too bad that I can't stand EA and MA MAchaka is crap

Btw, are there some viable strategies with MA Machaka? I can see nothing good coming from spiders

>>175185805

My hunch is that Ghost King really needs Awe.

>>175186929
>Didn't add new links

Sigh. At least this idiot didn't forget the "fuck you /rsg/"

>Noob questions answered
http://web.archive.org/web/20150430021604/http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/core-mp-concepts-that-i-wish-somebody-had-told-me-about/

>Pretender designer
http://bsielski.github.io/pretenders/

>Debugger guide and download
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=36453&highlight=debug

Don't forget it for the next new thread you Rejectors!

>>175186929

Pretender thoughts and general tips for Vanarus?

So Steam has broken and I can't run Dominions. Trying to fix it, but if I stale in any of the following games, that is why:

HehNothingPersonnel Berytos
EAChineseNewYears Pangea
MAdman Nazca
aBoneToPick Nazca
JobbingToXibalba Vanheim
TheWheelHasTurnedOnceAgain Man
MasterTheCircle Phuidh
TeachingFeeling Asphodel

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Alright, I felt like I've gotten all the suggestions I can, so with the new thread, we have the roster poll for our VGL team.

https://pastebin.com/65x6ssJ7

Let's hope we'll hear our goalhorn a lot this summer!

>>175189231
can't you just run it from its folder?

>>175189231
Open it from your folder.

>>175187642
N9 Black Hunters are fun memes but I wouldn't call it a good strat.

>>175189865
Is this a pretender?

>>175189231
you really don't want to stale

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hi guys
relatively noob here

how do I MA Ashdod?

thank you

>>175191010
Oh christ

>>175191121
N9E4 or N9E9, gold scales, rush a neighbour in year1, snowball from there.

>>175189115
https://boards.fireden.net/vg/thread/170169391/#q170328064
ctrl+f vanarus

>>175191121
also https://boards.fireden.net/vg/thread/167795667/#168010653

THE WHEEL HAS TURNED ONCE AGAIN

>>175189590
>>175189643
Well good golly that worked just fine! Thanks folks!

>>175188948
that's the dom3 debug mod
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IGmBe9vPavc0dkdVFReUs5RGs/view
is the dom4 debug mod

>>175193549
>works both ways if you catch my drift

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>>175193856

>>175194357
Try it dom3 mod works on dom4. Also that link doesn't explain how to implement it for noobs who don't recognize the file types. The map doesn't work however.

>>175187112
If bolts count LA Man.

>>175196867
>not LA Ulm
Dont even need to buy blockers for them.

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Reminder to never ever get diplomacy'd by malakal

>>175199290

This alliance has worked very well for him though, gave him lots of gems and helped expand.

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Reminder to join http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=MagusAssistance

>>175200871
11 players is probably fine, maybe we'll start without ermor

>>175201135
The map has 12 starting positions for land nations though. It would be really unbalanced if someone got ~6 free provs because he doesn't have a neighbour he's supposed to have.

>>175200871
>that pic
F

>>175200871
>>175201135
>>175201424
I want to join as MA Atlantis, but I'm having a hard time hitting 12 provinces without an awake

>>175203040
doesn't MA Atlantis have kinda shit sacreds, you can afford an awake

>>175203137
MA Atlantis has kinda shit everything.

>>175203137
I want to take the god that gives me W/D/S dormant for better scales

>>175203040
Use lobsters.

You have a whole lake for yourself on that map.

>>175203704
Yeah, but it's really slow clearing them with reef warriors and I don't want to use lobsters that are going to be stuck in the lake

>>175203815
>I don't want to use troops that expand easily
>I have trouble expanding!
I can't help you, anon.

also I want coasts for the cheap research mages, since someone said I need to spam those

>>175203938
I also said you need lobsters. It should be obvious you need coastal forts no matter the mages to get a foothold on land, but atlantis just so happens to have 45 gold researchers which is nice.

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How does the Hall of Fame work? How can this guy who hasn't even killed anybody have beeen up there with thugs who have killed hundreds of enemies?

>>175205636
He was probably just leading troops for a long ass time

>>175205708
I guess you can become famous among the troops for trying to suicide yourself in every battle, if they mistake it for leading a charge.

>>175205636
He's last on that list. So even if the guys in front of him racked a lot of kills, there aren't any more guys of that caliber to bypass him.

Also note that Melee kills push you up the list faster than just ones by spells. So frying a 1000 longdead with Firestorm won't get you to the top in itself (those kills still matter, but not by nearly as much). After melee kills it looks into experience (you get XP for fighting in melee, but also for just participating in a battle).

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This nigga been trying hard

>>175207337
won't immortals heal afflictions?

>>175207337
Basically col. stinkmeaner.

>>175207337
>Morale 17
At least he hasn't given in yet!

>>175207558
Eventually he will, but with that many it'd take a while to.

>>175207619
I'm really happy he still has an arm for his crutch even though he's lost both eyes and has zero combat skills

Gaeni
those icthyids are in my capring, you can use it for UW shenanigans but I'll need it back

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>>175189375
Six respones so far. I'm going to bed now, but the poll will stay open for a few days. If you haven't taken the poll yet, I'd appreciate it if you did.

>>175191307
>>175191995

Good stuff here. Thanks!

>>175209338
That's no problem. I'll leave it with no PD, and even send you a rent check each turn.

>>175203815
>>175203903
>>175203938
Okay, well, I got it to work, but I have a bunch of troops sitting around collecting wages that can't leave my pond, and this triggers my autism in just the worst way.

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Take your turns.

>>175209338
>>175211438
Actually, you know what, it's fine. I don't need the ichtyids.

How does the negative dominion hit of the Heretic trait work? Looking particularly at a few of the mages of Machaka, who have the heretic trait. Is it something that only effects the province they are in? Or does it also cause checks in all surrounding slots?

I'm assuming I should try and locate the ones who will be researching mostly in a single prov?

>>175215848
It's like a preacher that works against any candle present in the province, be it yours or not.

Ideally you want them in enemy candles working those down, or in a neutral candle province where they at least won't eat yours. But if it's deep in your dominion it doesn't matter if they're in the same or in different provinces, they got candles to eat regardless.

Man I hate icthyids

>>175220218
FUCK YOU

>>175220218
You came to the wrong general motherfucker

Do spells that leave damaging clouds on the battlefield trigger blood vengeance? I'm thinking fire cloud and that one death cloud spell.

>>175220218
What the fug, seriously? What's wrong with you?

>>175220325
>>175220654
>>175221093
Come at me degenerates, I'm eating fish fingers for dinner.

>>175220793
I've heard both.

>ichtyids
>"""""good"""""
>do not even have their own nation
Ichtyid lovers on suicide watch.

>>175221773
>crystal and garnet amazons don't have their own nation
>this means they're bad

>>175221773
EA Pelagia has national ichtyids

>>175222186
>being not even a secondary, but a TERITARY race of a nation
Ichtyids get cucked once again!

>>175222337
Fir bolgs are 4th tier for Fomoria (fomorian giants, fomorian cursed, nemedians, then fir bolg)

>>175222434
That's what they get for being worse than ichtyids.

>>175222434
>Ichtyids are literally worse than elves
Its like pottery, fishfags on suicide watch

>>175220793
They trigger it. Only cloud that doesn't is Poison Cloud, which has nothing to do with being a cloud but with being poison.

Newbie question here, could you explain this ichtyid meme? Why are people so passionate about ichtyids here? To me they're just random troups in neutral provinces... are they even worth recruiting if you can recruit them and already have amphibious troups?

>>175222981
They are better than most of MA Atlantis's troops but that isnt saying much. They are stronger than you would expect though with their nets and I have seen them kill multiple awake monster gods.

>>175222981
It's kind of a forced meme from a handful of people saying I LOVE ICHTYIDS instead of just some variant of 'ded' when bumping the thread off page 10.

>>175222981
They're remarkably good with their nets, and super cute

>>175223728
And I love them

Hey guys let's talk about sequence order. Does magic movement cause stealth units to unstealth and attack the province? If so can you block troop movement with magic movement?

>>175227497
If a stealth unit is already in the province set to attack, it will join in magic phase combat (if that's what you're asking). Otherwise, stealthed units set to attack join normal phase combat. Stealthy units set to hide, sneak into a different province or sneak and attack a different province do not join magic phase attacks. It is possible to block troop movement with magic movement by cutting off units moving 2 or more spaces through friendly territory or by routing some of the friendly commanders. If a unit is normally stealthy but set to Attack, it is not stealthed and follows normal, not-stealthy mechanics.

>>175227497
Yes, if you launch a magic phase attack and have stealthed units in that province attack, both the magicers and stealthers will attack as one.

Yes, if you take over a province the enemy was moving through (but not into) it'll negate their move.

Fun fact - stealthed units in a province set to attack used to always count as a magic phase attack. The change made Raiel sad.

>>175197287
Recruit Defenders and your crossbowmen ARE the blockers.

>>175227998
Which means you had to buy as many blockers as ranged units.
Loser.

ded

>>175231258

Well, then, why don't we perk things up a bit by someone posting a link to ripped version's download site so I can try this shit out

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What turns would you say the divisions between early, middle, and late happen, in general?

>>175233150
Middle starts when some blesswhore's army gets crushed by Theurge Teamwork.
Late starts when somebody munches an army with a supercombatant.

>>175233458
No, middle starts when the first person goes AI because they got blessrushed and are too shitty to stop it.

Late starts when quadbless mictlan's lands are running on a skeleton economy.

>>175233150
I tend to define game phases by when the last phase's tech stops working.
>>175233458 is about right, but late game is more about battlefield clear to me than SCs, since SCs die to solid mage support.

The other thing though is that there's no real, like, single early middle or late game phase. Some armies get stopped dead by rigor mortis + skelly spam and that'd mark a transitory period for someone who had won their first war off of E buffs on elite units, but fire elementals ignore it and the nation that rushed conj wouldn't consider it more than a reminder to always bring enough gems to burn through the skelly spammers.

Next to Evo 5/Const 2, how fast should EA Caelum research Parting of the Soul? Is it worth it to dip that far into Thaum before Fog Warriors against other nations who have evo spam?

>>175237169
You should get conj 5 before either, and if you tell me you're using cons to build quills, I will ask you politely, but firmly, to stop doing that.

>>175237169

No, its not very good.

>>175240813
It is really good, actually. Just high research

>>175240713
I'm not him, but are you implying that building quills is bad? I'm not even asking about Caelum in particular

>>175241041
It's bad for any national that uses air gems in combat, which is any nation that has A2+ mages.

>>175241041
quills are fine for, like, Ulm and Yomi, but nations like Caelum, Fomoria, and Elves want every air gem they can lay their hands on to win wars.

>>175241080
>>175241157
I see, that's clear now, thanks!

Any tips on UNLIMITED BOARWORKS? I read the guide but I want domg's TRUE WISDOM.

>>175240713
>>175237169

always constr2 first and always mass quills in early and midgame.
it's just so good and it actually doesn't delay tstrike spam.

just don't overcraft them, because soon 70% of your mages will be out to fight and quills can be your way to not fight behind on research while doing that.

>>175242336
no, smallson, you do NOT have the air gems for quills and elemental spam and elementals win you wars. You're paying 5 of one of the rarest gem types which you need a ton of for 6 RP. SIX RESEARCH POINTS. If you are suggesting to build them on Caelum, you're either being ignorant or actively malicious.

>>175242815
Not them but 6 RP/turn is a lot of RP over time. You're basically getting a 5 gem half-of-a-lab-rat with no upkeep.

>>175242925
if they were W gems, sure, Caelum can spend them. But they're air gems, and you need them for every fight.

>>175242995
>playing birds

>>175242995
IDK man, I think its one of those cases where
>it depends
particularly on the size of the map and the aggressiveness of your opponents.

Caelum proper produces 4 air gems a turn. Assuming you went magic 2/3, you should have const 2 at about the late fall of year 1, at which point, blowing 30 air gems in a single turn nets you 36 rp from here until the end of the game. Obviously Caelum shouldn't spend every air gem it gets on quills, but that kind of boost really pays off over the course of the game.

>>175243069
We're specifically discussing strats for playing birds. If you're playing Yomi or Ulm or EA Pelagia, then sure, turn your quills into research.

>>175243154
If your opponents are passive shitters, you can actively shit on them. You can do this by summoning 30 more air elementals instead of the equivalent of 300 gold in RP

>>175243154
The other person who responded to them here. I think that the more Magic you have the less you can justify spending gems on quills. If I went Magic 3 there's no way I'd pay for quills. Magic 0? Sure.

>>>175243289
>Magic 0? Sure.
So you value air gems at 10 gold?

>>175243424
Well, only early on. RP items are worth far more when you have less mages. As you enter the midgame you should stop crafting quills because you have better uses for gems now.

>>175243262
>>175243289

Fair points, I'm wrong here. Thanks for the help.

>>175243510
Except you'll have 30 fewer gems to use because you wasted them on a whopping three mages worth of RP

>>175242815
it's all about momentum. by the time you have elementals you will have won a war with thunderstrikes and you'll have rebuilt your air gem treasury, but RP let you get way more stuff during that time so you can start a second and third war earlier.

>>175243575
To allow you to hit core research goals faster, which can allow you to fight effectively a few turns earlier. Doing this is not automatically a good idea but I don't think it's always a bad one either. It's the same reason why you sometimes summon shit animals with your nature gems. An early boost can allow you to snowball or survive.

My computer is mcfucked, I'll need at best a day extension or at worst a tempsub for EANoMeme Lanka and Ragnorak Mictlan.

>>175243660
>by the time you have elementals you will have won a war with thunderstrike
T-strike requires conj 3, evo 5 and a big ball of mages to use effectively. It's weak against resistance spells, not very useful against raiding, and really is only strong against enemy deathballs that also failed to set up evo baits.

Elemental spam requires conj 5 and works great in both large and small fights. It synergizes well with a lance rush, since it breaks up the enemy formation to leave a larger surface area for your lancers to hit. It's really only weak against fire elemental spam and nations that can field large numbers of magic weapons on units that can survive trample or have size 6 blockers, and even then the formation is a lot harder to set up than evo bait.

The only opponents I'd get T-strike against over air elementals are Fomoria and Abysia.

Against just about any other enemy, going Cons 2 to spend your gems on RP and then going to T-strike will make you significantly weaker at every stage of the game. Early because your magic is less effective and later because you will very quickly want to use every air gem for fights regardless of which spell you got first.

>>175186929


Please help me like this game. I want to like this game but the game itself is making it really difficult for me.

>>175244034
Actually, there's some other nations that I might do t-strike against first, like if hinnom masses dawn guards or atlantis fields a pile of living pillars.

>>175244113
If it hits you and tells you that you're worthless, just remember the good times that you had and that it's you against the world.

>>175244252
I haven't had any good times with it yet but when I write down what I think is cool about it I read it and say, "This is the game of my dreams."

but then I play it and I contract AIDS every time help me, please, /domg/. Is there a UI mod? Anything? Something to make this less all so awful?

>>175244034
This guy is right. Most of playing Caelum effectively, because your troops are dogshit in fights, is making the right call with how much to bring to a fight.

Elementals allow you to raid, defend, and counter mid-sized early-game army blobs with far less mages than going the T-Strike route does.

If you go magic scales, which I always think you should with Caelums cheap utility researchers, the trek from Conj 5 -> Evo 5 and then Alteration or Thaum or whatever isn't that bad. Caelum has gems in spads, and your Harab's can sitesearch fairly well for death and air, which you will be using lots of.

>>175203040
Are you Atlantis from Frog and Toad?

Use lobsters

>>175244034
>>175244373
This is a very good point. I never realized that Air Elementals are this good.

>>175244571
>he never had his dreams crushed by a hidden elf army with 50 a gems worth of elemental spam.

I envy you.

>>175244329
What problems are you having with it first of all?

>>175245553
It's really just the god awful UI and map. I love the unit art, it's charming-- the battles have so much character and I get into it. But the moment it goes back to the actual map I want to fucking learn how to actually mod it myself at this point because those castles and shit are just awful looking.

>>175244034
On one hand I agree that elementals will work far better than thunderstrike in any single fight.

On the other, Storm+Thunderstrike means you can fight battles without burning dozens of air gems on elementals. It is very easy to run out of gems doing that, and then your armies will be doing thunderstrike too, just now you can't mix in air elementals if you need them.

Primarily using thunderstrike on armies it will work against lets you save air gems for things which thunderstrike will not work against, or for later in the game when you can make better use of them.

>going Cons 2 to spend your gems on RP and then going to T-strike will make you significantly weaker at every stage of the game.
I don't agree with construction 2 for quills first, but I disagree on conj vs evo.

Evo gets anti-rush combat milestones earlier than conj - evo2 lightning bolt and evo4 thunderstrike. Both are (in my opinion) better against rushes than size 3 air elementals, and much lower research than size 6 air elementals.

Evo5+Conj3 is not too much higher than Conj5 in terms of research either, only about 17% more RP.

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>>175245620
I dont think there is a lot you can do about that. There are custom maps with varying degrees of prettiness, but I dont think you can change the way forts and stuff look.

>>175244772
People always go on and on about T.Strike, saying it is the reason to play birds.

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http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=MagusAssistance

how do you manage not getting stuck in the chokepoint when sieging a fort without flyers?
also, what's a good spell to protect your mages from any stray arrows aimed at your front melee guys?

>>175247354
Theres a ton of items made with air paths that give protection from arrows.

Anything that offers increased protection or invunerability will also keep you safe. Earth and Death are what I'm thinking of off the top of my head.

Other than that, accept that you might lose a mage or two in a fight if you want them near the front of the lines.

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>>175220218

>>175245620
>those castles and shit are just awful looking
I'm sorry anon, I think the only fix for this is for you to get good taste.

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So how exactly does one use a spell like one of Pangea's songs? I'm not sure I fully get how range 0 with AoE 15 works. Do they have to be in melee in order to cast these? Use their own square as the origin and then target things inside the 15 square effect?

I ask because I can never seem to script casting correctly and they either go off script or enter melee and then go off script. I can't find it in the manual, either.

I thought having research 0 versions of an Aoe 15 Tangle Vines, Panic, and 31+ stun damage would be pretty neat to use during expansion but this does not seem to be the case.

>>175248104
Range 0 = lands on the square the caster is sitting on

AoE 15 = hits 15 squares around the landing point (including that square), in a somewhat random fashion. Every affected square must be connected, and it seems to have some degree of priority for closer squares.

>So how exactly does one use a spell like one of Pangea's songs?
In my experience, you generally don't.

The range is terrible (you basically need to be directly in melee for it to work), and while the effects are good, needing to be right up in melee is very bad for mages. It can also be quite unreliable because of how AoE spreading works.

If you do want to try use it, get your commander into the middle of the fight (preferably with a guard of troops so he doesn't instantly die), and then tell him to cast a song once or twice while he's in melee.

>>175247354
>how do you manage not getting stuck in the chokepoint when sieging a fort without flyers?
put elites on flanks, script to attack rear and buff them with body ethereal

>>175247354
>what's a good spell to protect your mages from any stray arrows aimed at your front melee guys?
arrow fend at ench6
air shield at 0 research, but it only affects caster

Pythium, can we speak?

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Nice horror spam, Mictlan.
It's a shame it cost you 2850 gold and you only managed to kill 1 hierophant and 4 centars in return.

Don't worry though. The population felt it would be wrong to let me pay for new centaurs from my own pocket so they gave me money for new centaurs + tip.

>>175242153
I'm thinking of going N9W9 Magic 3 Dom 7. Not sure what to give up for that though.

>>175227926
It'll stop their move also if they're moving into that province from a farther away, non-adjacent province. Basically it has to be a legal move that you could normally make when giving orders.

>>175249964

This the famous A9 Mictlan? Give that guy a break, he obviously is very new.

And he brought only trash troops.

>>175252747
It is him.
I'm also pretty new myself.

>>175244373
>Caelian troops are dogshit in fights

Stupid meme. Caelian troops are just fine - Spirehorn lancers are good for what they are, but die easily enough to a big army they can't surround.

But every era of Caelum does have some proper fighting troops as well. For EA, the Mairya sacreds with a decent bless. For MA, the Storm Guard - they're only good in Cold, but that's not a huge limiting factor. Low attack density, but that Prot 20!

Also on research - you don't need to get to Conj5 to get elementals. Already at Conj3 you get the lesser ones, which are obviously worse, but still very usable for the time. If you spend 5 or 10 gems on those to fend off a rush army it's a sweet investment. Best thing is that it's research-wise right on the way to the proper elementals.

Is it worth going W9 as Gath for an extra Se'ir attack?

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>>175205636
>>175207050
Apparently he took offense to that from beyond the grave. Anyway the guy who wanted to die and had died just pulled hundred more experience out of his ass.

>>175254957
Dying seems to have made him more experienced than everybody else.

So where does routing take place in turn sequence? And if routing happens after enemy movement (22. other movement) does that mean that you can cut off enemy armies' routes to oblivion if you take their last connecting province? But if it happens before enemy movement (including the army that is routing) does it return back to their connecting friendly province as friendly movement?

I can think of 2 scenarios:
1. Route caused by defeat on enemy province.
2. Route caused by defeat on friendly province.

For case 1 if your army routes I want to know if that "route" movement counts as "friendly movement" or "enemy movement" if the last connecting province is simultaneously attacked by the enemy (hence why it's "enemy movement bc it's towards a province that's already conquered).
For case 2 the movement would have to happen on "enemy movement" (22. other movement) bc the route cannot happen without the enemy coming in, in the first place.

>>175259249
>routing happens after enemy movement
this

>you can cut off enemy armies' routes to oblivion if you take their last connecting province
yes

>>175259509
What about defeat in friendly province? I would assume that the Other movement phase already happened and so if you were attacked in both your province and your last connecting province your routing army will disappear to oblivion.

What about sieged castles and stealthy units like elves?

If the last connecting province is a fort you own, but it's under siege by the enemy does it count as "enemy province"? And what about stealthy units such as elves or scouts? I assume they still follow the same rules as normal armies (as many of my scouts disappeared to oblivion when they patroled and routed).

>>175259249
As far as I can tell, rout happens directly after the battle.

As I found out to my dismay, normal movement is not fast enough to cut off retreat when you teleport an SC onto the enemy.

>>175261816
1. All magic movement
2. All magic phase initiated battles
3. Routing resulting from magic battles
4. Normal movement
5. Normal battles
6. Routing from normalmovement battles

>>175261346
Whether a province was controlled by whom doesn't matter at all for routing purposes. You shouldn't think of movement between friendly provinces and into hostile provinces as separate, it all happens functionally at the same time, ie before battles.

You can only retreat to a sieged fort when the battle was outside said fort, in that same province.

Stealth indeed doesnt matter when routing.

>>175254705
Seirs are just a small part of your sacreds as Gath. But w9 isnt bad for the recruitables either, but not sure if its ideal. Would have to try whether Malakhs are usable with it, the extra defense should help a bit even if not as much as N9 would help them.

It would also get you a new path which is nice, then you'd have everything except A when the god wakes. Cant recall if they have a good chassis for W, that matters a lot too.

Try it for yourself if you can get a smart build. It doesnt matter whether its doable in the abstract if you cant make it work for you personally.

Especially I wouldnt count too much on Seir when theyre Wasteland only. Even if you get a wasteland, it's a big disadvantage to have them available at specific spot(s) only.

Would I be horribly wrong in assuming that a melee range AoE 3 has roughly 1 in 4 chance of hitting yourself?

>>175263152
Wait what's the difference between friendly movement and other movement? I thought something like attack enemy province counted as other movement, therefore is slower than friendly movement; ie your reinforcements will always arrive before the enemy if both move on the same turn (without magic).

Hi admin, Ulm here.
Could you postpone next turn by 72 hours? I will be going on pilgrimage this weekend and I wont be back until Monday at 12:00 (+01 timezone).
If not then feel free to find sub for me.

Rank your best elemental royalty /domg/

I like Banefire and Air for their sicks buffs and saving me 2 armor slots for soul vortex and invulnerability.

And is it just me or can water royalty not cast liquid body on herself? Wth why?

>>175266802
Air's where it's at, especially with permanent storm up. Make great SCs with ethereal, mirror image, mistform, flight and capacity to trapeze. 0 enc. too. Make great support with Fog Warriors, Mass Flight and Shimmering Fields.

>>175266802
>>175267246
The best scenario is when you're the endgame villain who summons all of the royalties.

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Gentlemen,
how do I LA Atlantis?

>>175266802
water royalty already has the positive effects from liquid body. If the game let you cast it, all it would do is lower their strength.

>>175246516
People are dumb. T-strike is nice, but it's something you use in blob v blob fights that Caelum can choose to not fight

>>175263691
>It would also get you a new path which is nice, then you'd have everything except A when the god wakes. Cant recall if they have a good chassis for W, that matters a lot too.

Gath has Frost Father who gets both A and W.

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>Runescape actually has abundant potential for a great /domg/ mod but nobody knows both games' lore and mechanics well enough to make the mod
>The suggestion itself is seen as silly

>>175269153
I played Runescape when I was, like, eight and it's hard for me to take it seriously now.

>>175267517
Run Prod scales. Spam your land troops, since they're p great for their cost. Your sacreds are also really good and don't require tons of resources, might be worth taking a bless for them (W9 is probably the best one, though N9 is better for shrouded communion slaves). Get into water ASAP. Kill R'lyeh if needed (you should have no problem doing it, your nation hard counters squids). Recruit Forgiving Dads from your UW castles - they're your main battlecasters, communion slaves, forgers and sitesearchers. On land - spam Tungaliks, they're okay researchers with low upkeep. Angakoks are your big casters for spells like Darkness, Rigor Mortis, Wind of Death, Stygian Rains, Wailing Winds & high-path Air spells like Arrow Fend, Mass Flight and Fog Warriors (after plugging them into communions with crystal matrices). Other spells you want to use are mostly stuff your troops are largely immune to - Sailor's Death, Falling Frost or Grip of Winter. Atlantis has very good diversity (+ communions) and mobile armies (amphibiousness + sailing + mapmove 2 on heavy infantry), which means you can counter most things your opponents will throw at you easily. And if things go really badly - you can always go full cancer with Burden of Time/Foul Air/Vengeful Waters and wait in your cozy sea until everyone else quits.

Here's an old (and surprisingly good) Desura guide: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ji71w66inj79zcv/LA+Atlantis+Guide.odt Just take advice in there with a grain of salt and avoid obviously retarded strategies like thugging Tungaliks.

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>>175189375
We're at nine responses so far. I'm going to keep the poll open throughout the weekend. If you haven't already taken the poll, please feel free to do so.

>>175272270
You should also point out that if you're near Lemuria early on, you can pretty trivially wipe them out with basically no opposition.
And should, since early Lemuria won't have completely blighted their provinces and gotten their big fuck-yous online.

Well, unless they diplomonster you. But seriously, if Lemuria is diplomonstering you've already lost.

>>175272689
Just remember to spread out your troops so you don't lose all of your provinces to squads of 20-40 ghosts and then get your armies wiped by rigor mortis.

>>175272689
This is true, although with no N magic, you may have some supplies problems (unless you're attacking in year1, when spooks have not yet killed all the pop in their lands). And honestly - whatever cancerous global Lemuria does, it will be much, much more annoying for other nations than yours. So, uh, try not to get diploed into removing Lemuria while someone else kills Jomon/Pythium/Marignon/another rushbait nation and wins the game, either.

>>175269153
it wouldn't be that hard.
Spriting is literally the hardest part of you don't fuck with events.

The only problem is I could only think of three real nations to flesh out, with maybe one or two more from GWs.

Saradomin gets order and patrol bonuses and shit, with plenty of dope ass rituals for things
Zamarok is essentially Lanka; with giants, ogres, undead and ancient magick
Guthix gets some sort of balance mechanic? And nature and druids and shit and then he dies

>>175247991


I can't stomach this game's look. It's just god awful. Literally nobody has even considered modding the UI?

>>175248104
>>175248493
I've seen one super memey use where an unkitted dryad used a spell and some songs to clear a barbarian province, but if one of those awe rolls missed it would have been ded.

>>175279391
there's a way to change the UI a small amount.
It used to be in the OP, it might be in the pastebin

>>175245620
Turn off the castle sprites using map filters?

>>175282149

I like visual information sometimes. That's why I play games with visual representations.

It's just an unfortunate circumstance that a small margin of the visual representations given to us by the developers are sort of immersion and enjoyment breaking for me :(.

All this game does is hurt me and all I want to do is love it.

>>175269153

agreed tee bee ayche

>>175283185
Email illwinter and tell them you want that capability. They might be able to implement it, and are almost always very responsive

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>>175287617
why must you hurt me in this way

How does the spell from Atlas of Creation work?
Do you need a lab in the current province to cast it? Because that would make it pretty inconvenient.

>>175293354
Yes, you have to be in-province.
It's still damn good. Think of it as being able to turn a dirt-cheap scout into a 10-in-everything site searcher.

>>175293582
My question was if there needs to be A LAB in the province, since you usually cast rituals from A LAB.

>>175283185
desu you deserve to be hurt. Dominions has God-tier art style, even if the actual resolution is shit.

The UI is just kinda meh. It's nothing jarring, but it's nothing polished either. I actually quite like it -- I think it suits the game pretty well. It's not on par with Solium Infernum though.

>>175294181
Learn how item spells work, man. We're not Emmanuel.

>>175294181
No, item-casting doesn't need a lab

>>175294283
I think the Dominions 4 default UI elements with the yellow borders and such like is ugly. Dominions 3 and 2 were superior and I think they actually looked nice (the usability of course was inferior).

Luckily that's one aspect of UI that is easy to mod (with an exception of unit card background).

I need a small extention of 4 or so hours. My small business has been slammed with client meetings, and I thought I had my lunch to take my turn today, but wont get more than a few minutes before the next meeting. Sorry for being slow, life's gotten very busy

Thanks.

>>175296915
NORMIES

REEEEEEEEE

Do different sources of Maste Smith stack?

>>175298068
Yup.
Ulm can forge 1 gem items.

>>175294283
I really wish they allowed better sprite resolutions

>>175297015
>small buisiness owners
>normies

pick one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkqbHQqLwMU

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>>175296915
Learning with the pros?

>>175265531
Will do if I don't forget.

>>175298839
Do you sell digital penises in second life?

>>175297015
Dominions is mostly played by normies. PBEM works well for those with a full time schedule that still like gaming. Several of the high profile players have spouses and children.

>>175301364
Like who?

>>175301496
Maerlande ;_;

>>175301869
>Maerlande
>spouse
Anon...

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http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=MagusAssistance
Come on, we need just 2 more landlubbers.

>>175301496
Nuklearmonkee and Raiel both also have kids.

>>175301924
Hence the spoiler

>>175301496
not a high profile player, but I've got a wife. There are a few of us, anon

How do I kill my own aquatic units to stop paying their upkeep? Bane Venoms don't work. Only thing I've found so far is starvation, but that requires getting lucky with a dead province.

>>175302337
If you have water neighbors, work out a deal where you suicide armies into a supercombatant or truckload of PD. They get experience, you get killed units, everybody wins.

Alternatively, have a landlubber send in a thug or SC to clean out a province, retake it next turn when they withdraw. They get a turn of income, you get fewer aquatics.

>>175302337
you ask one fellow neighbour to raid one of your provinces with an UW thug. you should setup item trades and diplomacy anyway.

this also allows him to get experience ona thug which is helpful and can lead him to the leaderboards.

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>>175302917
>non-hostile uw neighbors

things_that_never_happen.jpg

>>175301364
that one guy had a wife and a mistress

>>175302127
Does Sy, though? A-asking for a friend.

>>175303641
He has a gf.

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>>175303728

holy fuck dragons do your turn

>>175303835
Send pics, maybe I can make him reconsider.

>>175294283

I hate literally only the buildings and the UI. Everything else is great. Fantastic game. Love it.


But the building sprites. I just can't be doing with it.

>>175303728
"no"

>>175304087
yes

>>175304148
"no"

"no"

"no"

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>>175303934
O-okay.

>>175304308
Nah, don't think he likes immobile pretenders.

I want to hold hands with Sy!

ded sy

>>175303728
F

>>175298938
Funny you should have this because I have the biggest dirt on malakal you wouldn't forgive. And if he keep that up I will use it.

>>175309159
Use it now!

>>175309159
t. malakal

>>175309418
In good time my sweet...in good time.

Can anyone get a hold of Kurple for the extention? Id really appreciate it.

>>175310446
Only if you wire me your revenues of this meeting.

>>175311158
Sure thing post your aba and routing numbers, full name, otherwise it wont go through

>>175301869
>Maerlande
>high profile

>game delayed on turn 7
this is a good sign.

>>175311504
He's reasonably tall.

>>175265491

>Wait what's the difference between friendly movement and other movement?
There is no practical difference

>>175312080
Then where does enemy movement come into? 21. Friendly movement?

Then does that mean there can be two battles at the same province in the same turn if there is a defending army and a friendly army that reinforces but doesn't there there in time? Or those reinforcements and enemy army arrive at the same turn?

What is "other movement"? The manual vaguely goes over like 2 things.

>>175312359
http://dom4.wikia.com/wiki/Movement
Basically, the person saying they're the same is misleading. Defensive movement in the same movement phase resolves before offensive movement.

>>175312536
That page doesn't explain if there is a difference between friendly movement towards a friendly province and enemy movement. Or about bumping armies. And other nick nacks that's been asked.

>>175302032
joined as mighty man

>>175320271
That makes 12 land and 1 UW, then, enough to start us off?

>>175320371
11 land, 2 uw

>>175320459
oh right Ys

Is the bane lord gud? Or should I stick to banes?

>>175320589
they're 2 very different chassis
one is the cheapest available non-national thug, the other is a reasonable commander of undead with some perks

>>175320589
Neither are really all that efficient. Bane Lord has a niche use where you don't have a native thug chassis and need to clear stupid amounts of PD which can't scratch him.

Bane's basically used to lead undead/demons since, unlike mound kings, he doesn't die if he gets tickled too hard. Mound kings are cheaper by enough that most people use them anyways.

>>175320778
>>175320667
What would you two people suggest for a nation strong in death magic remove lots of elfs very quickly. Elfs of the wooded variety in a early age. Asking for my friend here

If on what many S1 mages faces an enemy with no S mages and one intends to only cast stellar cascades is it generally better to cast 'light of the northern star' then use cascades or communion up + 'power of the spheres' then cascades?

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>>175189375
>>175210409
I'm a bit disheartened to see that we've only got nine responses so far. Still, I'll keep the poll open for the weekend. The current standings are:
8 100 PD
7 16 Stale Strat
7 2000 ghosts in a fort
7 Burden of Time
7 Diplomonster
7 erf snek
7 Forester Bob
7 Innovative Strategy
7 itdepends
7 t. Malakal
7 Quadbless Mictlan
6 Giant Man-Eating Jews
6 Illfraud
6 >stabbed by a methhead
5 6 Months of SP
5 Heroic Obesity
5 Mage Support
5 Turn 1 Rain of Stones
5 Ulm - Waiting Fort Turn File
4 Bogus the Troll
4 I love Ichthyids
4 Remove Elves
4 Turnbullying
4 Useless Kick
3 Angry Stone Face
3 Hosting Delayed by 168 Hours
3 In That Case I'll Be Going AI As Well
3 Pankoman
2 Skeleton Economics
2 Tribless Awake Bull
2 misf3 IRL
1 Drowned in Sea of Woe
1 Horse Tribe Chief
0 Non-meme summod

>>175322413
its better to cast light of the northern star and power of the spheres. Ideall you have one mage cast each, that way your slaves will get the levels from light and all your slaves get the power of the spheres but only one master gets power of the spheres. this helps reduce the s level difference between them, thus making your slaves take less fatigue per cast.

>>175322601
I want to replace innovative strategy with both "Intermediate Player With An Innovative Strategy" and "Innovative Full Scales Lemuria Dog" to rep both kinds of innovation

>>175322832
those are both way too long anon

>>175322413
a) Always use a communion
b) You don't need to put all of your S1 mages into that communion

>>175322413
Ideal is probably communion up 8 masters, 4 slaves and have the rest cast on their own with LotNS.

I usually prefer to use that communion for something that I don't already have a bunch of people casting, though.

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I've seen some shit.

>>175322601
I'd like to help you but I don't know any of these players

>>175325125
Vote against all of them then, and mention that in the last text section.

>>175325125
newfag

>tfw ur tribless troops are just goofy
>tfw you swallow somebody before the end of the first year

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>>175327079
>tfw you just tell your opponent which of his provinces you're going to take and he doesn't object
>tfw you take those and some more

>>175327079
Is that from Circle?

>>175328347
no

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>MagusAssistance now has 13 players
>The max player count has been changed to 14

>>175328868
because it has room for 12 land and 2 water, so it has 11 land and 2 water right now

>>175328868
Admin didn't think we'd get a second water nation. Then first time atlantis came through

Whats some shit I can do with A 1 to make it useful?

Noob here in need of a redpill:

If the '-' after spell fatigue is the 1/(1+x) Magic level bonus reduction, what's the '+' after spell Damage (or range) mean?
(1+x)/1 Magic level bonus?
What about any multiple '+'?

>>175331907
stormpower->lightning bolt
stormpower->spend 2 gems on an air elemental or 1 on a t-strike
orb lightning at short range (like frozen heart, but worse)
Reign of Stonefalls

>>175333498
+ is +1
++ is +2

>>175333582

So, +1 (or +2) per Magic level bonus, okay.
Thanks!

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>>175186929
Is the AI still terrible to the point it forces you to MP if you want to enjoy the game?

>>175337306
>want to enjoy the game

Masochist detected.

At this point, the only thing I enjoy are the AAR's.

>>175337393
ill take that as "no work whatsoever has been done on the AI, we just kept adding spells and units that the AI cant use properly"

gotcha

>>175337458
They did improve the AI in one of the recent patches. It's still ass.

>>175337458

IMHO, between no balance, shit AI, useless spells&units and excessive micromanagement, you have to play 24 hour multiplayer turns just to stay sane.

>>175189375
What is
>stabbed by a methhead
referencing?

>>175338352
Amuys literally was stabbed by a methhed and postponed a turn for a game he was admining while in the hospital

>>175337306
>>175337458
The complexities of this game isn't even captured by the average /domg/ goer let alone AI. If you want to see how innovative strategies and deep layers dom4 has to offer play MP. AI won't do you justice.

>>175337306
I play MP on domg because the AI is too hard for me.

>>175337306
The main reason I play MP these days is because I cant stand the single player loading times anymore.

>>175339645
do you play on a TI82?

>>175337306
The AI is still terrible, and I suspect it will be terrible forevermore.

The only possible case it'd get better is if illwinter gives modders the ability to write their own AIs, and even then I suspect it'd mostly just use a handful of generically good strategies rather than anything truly clever.

>>175339706
The loading times get longer as the game goes on and I just cant go back to it after doing blitz's and shit.

>>175339781
>implement deep learning AI with integrated speech synthesis and a steam accout to mimick Malakal's diplomonstering

End up making the game unplayable because every time someone goes AI they turn into Malakal.

>>175338545
my god

>>175342018
Yeah, what a dick move. Fucking junkies should play their turns no matter what.

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http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=MagusAssistance
One more!

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>>175345696
THE WHEEL HAS TURNED ONCE AGAIN

>>175338545
Who is Amuys?

I swear I recognise his name.

>>175346584
he was admining some game and got stabbed by a methhead

>>175346669
thanks

>>175346584
A modder.

>>175345696
THE WHEEL HAS TURNED ONCE AGAIN.
This is a time of great strife and suffering. This is a time of magic unequaled. This is - the Ascension Wars!

>Want to find a game
>Don't want to play on /domg/ because of all of the stalelords
>No games on invision
rip

Okay is it me or are Mage Engineers extremely underrated? A1E2 125g mages with +30 Siege. They're old but a few priestess can help them live for basically forever. If you spam them your forts become nigh-unassailable. Cracking forts becomes trivial. You can cast all of the good E stuff plus RoS out of the box.

>>175351169
>125g
725g. Only 1/5 of 125g Mage Engineers are A1E2. And most randoms are useless.

That said, A1E1s are already p good. Thing is, one Mage Engineer is half an Oread, and Oreades are extremely good battlemages, able to do anything a Mage Engineer can on the battlefield, while also giving you high N and A access. You can rarely afford to spend your capital's recruitment turns on anything else.

>>175352526
*625g, obviously. I need a nap.

>>175345696
I'm tempted to change from Ys to Ermor since it feels wrong to not have Ermor

>>175353064
Do it, then we can start.

>>175353064
Go for tri bless awake or quad bless imprisoned.

>>175351169
They're nice, but Oreiads have higher paths in the same things, and also are your main access to nature. If I'm on a budget (or specifically want a throwaway guy to RoS) I'll get Mage Engineers, otherwise I'd rather have more Oreiads instead.

I might consider grabbing Mage Engineers if I specifically want F/A or S/A crosspaths too, since those can occasionally be helpful.

>with +30 Siege
>If you spam them your forts become nigh-unassailable. Cracking forts becomes trivial.
Just grab standard Engineers. They're 40g, +25 siege attack/defense, and most importantly don't take up a capital recruitment slot.

>>175352526
>And most randoms are useless.
Only in summod. Just their base A1E1 is valuable in vanilla.

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>>175353064
Lets get this show on the road.

>>175353163
ermor joined without me, guess im best elves then

Do you give your unblessed Sidhe Lord thugs anything or do you just send them naked?

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This just happened to me: my candles spread on the other side of the map. I never sent any unit there. How did it happen?

>>175359392
events

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MagusAssistance memes.

>>175221773
>what is lentia

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>>175360921
>Humakt

>>175359392
There's an event which changes dominion in a province to some random other player's dominion.

>>175359392
I remember that map

three hundred billion turns of singleplayer

good times

>>175360921
>>175361379

Props to Humakt guy

Aside from being size 3 rather than 2 and getting a bit of flying fatigue Raptorian Warriors seem decent. Is Caelum having bad units a meme?

>>175364926
wait, what? the 10 gold, 12 resource short sworders? They're indy infantry tier. Spire Horn Warriors are WAY better - magic weapon, lance hit, lower res cost

>>175365554
The lance is nice but 5 less prot and 2 less def is serious.

>>175365961
if you expect size 3 guys with human light infantry stats to hold up in a sustained fight, you're in for a bad time.

>>175366084
I'm not saying you're definitely wrong. In some cases a lance alpha strike is worth more. 10g fliers with mediocre stats are nice though, and unlike the lancers they don't implode if you sneeze at them.

>>175364926
Lancers with plate cuirasses are very good for their cost. Definitely the best raiders you have. If you want to buff your burds though, recruit dual-wielders.

>>175364926
How good Caelum's troops are depends on whether you're just talking tactical value, or including the strategic aspect of having them able to fly anywhere.

Tactically, they're humans, but shittier because they're 2 to a square rather than 3. That's pretty fucking bad.

Lance charge and flying are the only things which make them not complete trash in a direct fight.

Strategically they're pretty good despite limited combat ability, simply because they're flying.

>>175364926
Size 3 is a pretty huge handicap under some conditions. In small enough battles flying and surrounding the enemy ensures all of your guys get hits in but larger battles the enemy can have substantially higher force concentration even if you get a surround.

Moreover, aside from Raven Guards of LA, the combat stats are almost militia-tier. Iceclads might have good protection but they don't have the attack, defence or damage to stand toe-to-toe with elite infantries of other nations. Caelum does well against low-defence low-medium armour opponents with their lance infantries tough: For example, a modest group (say, 30-40 troops) can expand against most indies without losses because they break the opponent with the lance charge and they'll of course do just as well against similar non-elite troops against players as well. And Caelum is one of the few nations with access to magical weapons and that can also be a huge boon.

>>175296915

What is your small business?

>>175337306

It has gotten a lot better but it's still built around blobs.

RIP Ulm's earth snake

>>175372239

Can we chat in the steam chat?

>>175372493
T. Malakal

>>175366084
>>175367983
>>175368145
>>175368349
Makes sense I guess. Plus you get to repel/don't get repelled when using lances. 6 prot is just so fucking low though. I feel sick just thinking about it.

>>175337393
There are AARs? Who makes them? I only see boring YouTube shit usually.

>>175337393
At this point I can't even find a game because Desura is deaaaad.

>>175374795

pdf's on Google, LPArchive has a pair, SA has lots (but 10bux entrance fee) - I'm sure there are even more, but haven't found them yet.

>>175374795
As far as I know the only person making them even somewhat regularly is cruxador (on wordpress) and other than that all you can find is a bunch of one-offs.

>>175375991
Any day I get to smother myself in Cruxador's posts is a good day!

>>175345696
THE WHEEL HAS TURNED ONCE AGAIN

>>175345696
The wheel's turned like three times dude. Maybe four, if we assume it turned before EA.

That's not very impressive Mr. YHWH-God.

Diplomancy tips and tricks?

>>175381402

Always do it a lot to everyone. #1 tip.

>>175381402
1. check the sticky about dom3 guides on diplo. same applies dom4. war never changes.

2. always tell the truth, but not the full truth.

learn the rest from t.malakal sempai

>>175382559
To be fair, at least when dealing with a certain kind of player in certain kinds of situations, there can be such a thing as too much diplomacy. Certainly if you come out as aggressive, controlling or patronizing. I didn't ever learn what the other players were thinking at the time but as far as I can tell, one of the key factors in several of the games I've won or lost was diplomancy backfiring ("I'm in a kingmaking position and I'd rather ally with this guy who has been friendly and trustworthy with me during the whole game rather than this whiny cunt that has constantly tryied to manipulate me").

However, while it can go too far in some situations and against some players, active diplomacy IS a necessity.

>>175381402
Also check this out:
>http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy/negotiation.htm

What's a good ballpark for the price of gems and items?

Is there any spell or item that lets an aquatic unit go on land?

>>175385460
price and deman ma boy. Haven't you been listening to skeleton economics? The usual trade for gems is 1:1 unless you're in a superior position to demand a "tax" on trading. gold is whatever since you can alchmize 10gold for 1 e/f gem + mage turn you do the math.

File: mother hydra.png (194KB, 1007x950px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 1007x950px

>>175322601
It looks like this general gets a lot more active during the weekend, at least considering we now have 17 votes. The current standings are:
16 100 PD
13 erf snek
13 Forester Bob
13 Innovative Strategy
12 2000 ghosts in a fort
12 Burden of Time
12 Giant Man-Eating Jews
12 Heroic Obesity
12 Illfraud
12 Quadbless Mictlan
11 16 Stale Strat
11 itdepends
11 Mage Support
11 >stabbed by a methhead
10 6 Months of SP
10 Remove Elves
10 t. Malakal
10 Ulm - Waiting Fort Turn File
10 Useless Kick
9 Diplomonster
9 Hosting Delayed by 168 Hours
9 In That Case I'll Be Going AI As Well
8 Bogus the Troll
8 Skeleton Economics
8 Turn 1 Rain of Stones
7 Angry Stone Face
7 Pankoman
7 Turnbullying
6 Tribless Awake Bull
5 Horse Tribe Chief
5 I love Ichthyids
5 misf3 IRL
4 Drowned in Sea of Woe
2 Non-meme summod

Incidentally, there's virtual divegrass going on RIGHT NOW if you want to know how it looks. You can find the link at implyingrigged.info

>>175385674

Amulet of the Fish, W1

How do you kill a stack of 30 watchers?

>>175392057
A thug chassis of your choice with a smasher, duskdagger or other suitable weapon and enough shock resist to ignore the lightnings?

>>175392057
storm spool, boots of quickness, 2 smashers, 0 enc

>>175392676
Storm spool alone won't cut it unless the chassis has res. Add in a copper plate, shock ring or such.

>>175392651
>>175392676
>>175393030
What about without thugging?

>>175393214
Spam shatter.

>>175393214
Kill their leader with assassins or remote assassination spells?