/rlg/ - Roguelike general

first for chei

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>>174356976
>cheifriend
>being the fastest one to post
we all know the god you're REALLY posting for, anon

>>174356976
>>174356983
never change /rlg/

>>174356449
only 3 types of players play online

>people who hate the game and want all features removed (trunk players)
>people with no self control who have to play online to prevent themselves from cheating
>PCB fans who miss Yig Father of Serpents too much and want to recreate the one-turn breathening (instead of nether breathers this time it's dead draconian ghosts that nobody bothered cleaning up)

Why do I always get "rare" things in consecutive games and then never again?

>Pan portals in Orc:2 like 3 games in a row
>Desolation of Salt portals in 2 good games in a row, after never seeing them despite only playing trunk
>corrupted Ecumenical Temple (Lugonu) 2 games in a row

so goddamn weird

>>174357330
because humans are stupid, don't understand randomness, and constantly try to see patterns where there are none

>>174357437
I legitimately feel like enemies drop less corpses when you're hungry

>>174357162
>(instead of nether breathers this time it's dead draconian ghosts that nobody bothered cleaning up)

actually, this was fixed in trunk. Ghost Draconians no longer get Bolt of Draining breaths.

>>174357730
Crawl devs actually making a good removal ????? Colour me surprised. Did they veto lasty's idiotic bezotting yet?

>>174357989
Nope, that's still getting tested, although apparently even Tavernposters are giving Lasty and dpeg a hard time about it. Very good chance it won't make it into 0.20 at all.

>>174357989
What is bezotting anyway?

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I think it is time to retreat a few levels.

>>174358237
random increasing chance that a monster that chases you too long eventually goes on permanent mini-berserk mode, gaining 2 speed, some HP, some stats for no extra XP. Basically there to shit on pillar dancing and sometimes just randomly ruin your day because energy randomization wasn't enough. Presented to you by 2/3 of the unholy trinity of tavern.

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>>174357162

you forgot

>people who only play tumnaments
>people who only play for tumrates
>people who only care about tumcount speeenchrunning

>>174358540
>tumcount speeenchrunning
you got me this time you bastard

tales of maj'eyal is pretty good owo

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is this anime a roguelike?

-clearly named after a spellbook from crawl
-involves tummies
-the ultimate form of magic is I CAST FIST

How do you exit the abyss?

>>174358847
kill enough dudes

>>174358847
Run around, exit portals are randomly generated. Just watch close that you don't accidentally go deeper into the abyss, if you don't know how to exit the abyss yet you will increase the probability to die massively

>>174358847
a) run. Every tile has a chance of randomly generating a portal. Stick to corners and angles, don't go through open spaces. Put on rings of stealth if you have any. One of the few places where potion of ambrosia is good. Not worth staying in place to heal.

b) fight (only if you are THAT strong). Eventually killing enough abyss thingies forces an exit to spawn.

>>174358847
press the > key while standing on an abyss exit

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*Rod* of Heroic Speed? I didn't even know Rods of regular Speed existed.

>>174359116
They don't.
Also buy that if you haven't already.

>>174359116
-HeroicSpeed and -AngelicHealing are pretty good. They take rather a lot of device skill to get to a good fail rate, though.

>>174358847
At low levels, the fastest/safest way is just running around in Abyss:1 (or Abyss:2 if you're unlucky).

At high levels, finding the Abyss rune might be faster, although not necessarily safer. But exits spawn *much* faster if you have the rune with you.

>>174358696
I think the Akashic Record is some sort of mythological book that records the life and death of every person though

>>174358696
>-clearly named after a spellbook from crawl

u got me

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>>174356885
This post concerns RL developers more than players, but in the past weeks I've been working on some sprites and fonts (pic related), especially designed to play roguelikes.

- Square tiles instead of vertical.
- Letters are proportioned instead of clumpy and deformed.
- Focus on negative space = light and readable
- 16x16 pixels allow for easy editing or swapping in other tiles.

I'll post more assets / wip if anyone is interested :^)

>>174362979
i mean if they're actual fonts then players can use them as well, at least for RLs that run in a real console/terminal

the problem is roguelikes that aren't designed for square fonts end up with really awkward proportions with the 80x24 terminals
plus square fonts tend to be ugly for actual text, unless the game has a display engine like cogmind's that lets it use a square font for displaying the dungeon but a half-width rectangular font for text

>>174362979
Post the fonts.

>>174362979
roguelikes use rectangles because the games are at a 3/4s perspective rather than strictly top-down

>>174362979
Pretty good font tbqh.

>>174363560
slow down anon you're blowing my fucking mind here

>>174362979
Angband already has the perfect roguelike font. Everything else is reinventing the wheel.

>>174363324
The worst part is that roguelike engines usually assume the developer wants to use console technology, so they assume a single font, even though it's trivial to develop a system that uses multiple fonts.

So, you're either stuck with square text (which looks awful), or non-square tiles that don't reflect the game's reality.

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>>174362979
Here's a previous iteration of some of the fonts.

I know most classics aren't designed with tiles in mind. But I'm looking for some middle ground. For example: when I play games made with libtcod, everything is so clumped together that it gets tiresome to look at.

Square tiles arent't perfect for reading line to line, but they feel more comfortable when it comes to play.

>>174357095
I want to be Xom's plaything

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>>174362979
Some character sprites you could swap in.

>>174364048
CoQ or Cogmind bridged the gap quite elegantly.

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>>174364278
Items n shieeet.

After all the removals and nerfs OpFi of Hep emerges as the power combo in trunk.

Gamechanger: Constricting bats means they can't run away

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Beside X@COM,what RL has ayliums in it?

>>174365161
ZAPM has aliens that use anal probes against you.

>>174365161
AlienRL

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It's always a good day.

>>174365256
I liked the one, except for the sound fx. Hard as balls.

>>174365489
I can't wait for Jupiter Hell!!!!! /shill
but in all seriousness I'll but it and share it maybe if I can

Is caves of qud still buggy and unfinished

does it still end your game and kill your character at level 18

>>174364048
>The worst part is that roguelike engines usually assume the developer wants to use console technology, so they assume a single font, even though it's trivial to develop a system that uses multiple fonts.
What the hell are you even talking about?

>>174365216
and they inflict the "sore" status

>>174365794
only if you pirate it

>>174362979
looking good

>>174363324
>80x24 terminals

grandpa pls

>>174365795
normal roguelikes only use 1 font
if you use a square font your text is fucked up
if you use a rectangular font your grid isn't square

he's saying it'd be nice if more roguelikes did the shit that cogmind does, where it uses an e.g. 18x18 font for the map but 9x18 for text

>>174366003
Ah, I see.

has anybody ever made a real-time roguelike

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>thinking about how nice it would be to have Arga
>ask Gozag for a shop
>choose weapon shop
>Arga's in
Truly the one and only, best God

>>174366195
That is impossible by definition.

>>174363324
>80x24 terminals

But it's 2017! :-O

>>174366317
Arga?

>>174366339
just imagine a roguelike where you take turns as fast as you can enter commands, while the other entities in the game all take a turn each single second

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>>174366517

Arga is a meme.

>>174366885
honestly I find that the basic damage of that weapon is too low to be desirable in extended

>>174366885
Oh that axe, fucking broken yeah

>>174367085
Youre retarded

>>174367151
>Youre retarded
express yourself with numbers shitlord

>>174367461
y0ur3 r374rd3d

>open 6 antique armor shops so far expecting at least one of CPA/barding/randart gloves
>jack fucking shit but 300000 randart ringmails of rcorr mr mp+9

thanks gozag

>>174366195
darksouls

>>174367731
The ring mail is the mightiest armour in the game, especially for naga.

>>174367731
Zigg dipping>Gozag

>>174367857
PDA is the best randart, while OCPA is the best unrand.

>>174367595
I love you anon

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>>174367085
I prefer 1H + shield
Frankly I could always tab through the entire game with a 1H axe easily enough, besides f bosses/uniques against which you'll have quaffed might/haste pots or spammed spells(extended) anyways


>>174367731
>antique shops
Your own mistake

>>174367861
Enjoy waiting until >Depths instead of having preoposterous gear before D10

>>174367857
>not wanting to have more ac as naga than garg

>>174367984
the mighty rink trumps all inferior forms of coverage

>>174368063
he only offers food shops, scroll shops, antique armor and general stores. Seen 1 weapon shop so far (had garbage drops) and fuck all else.

>natm of chei
>arga and shield of gong
>working on necromutation

What else do I need for webtiles, /rlg/? Maxwell's?

>>174368043
i love you too

>>174368185
FDA

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>>174368165
Just give more gold, goyim

>>174368282
>reposting the same 2 images 3
times in a row
do not for the gozag jew

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>>174368406
I only want what's best for you, anon.
Sacrifice all your gold to Gozag and surely good things will happen!

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>>174368282
>this wannabe doesn't even know goyim is plural

>>174368659
gozag is a mighty god but his strongest ability isn't the shops but hidden tech #16; do not pick up the gold while enemies are nearby!

>>174368773
I really miss when the gold actually had a shiny effect
Why did they fucking removed that
Then again it was also when the shops randomly spawned on an unexplored floor, fuck that shit

>>174368773
Gold aura is separate from gold piles.

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All this talk is making gozag happy

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>>174369125
N-NANI?!

is Sniper worth it? I vaguely remember having it once but it sucked, though I didn't have high crossbows. It sounds like it'd be super useful against panlords and hell lords and shit

>>174367984
>PDA is the best randart
So, we've come full circle.

>>174369337
idk if you can still dumbfire at shit that's off your screen it probably doesn't matter what you're using

>>174369258
Gold aura is separate from gold piles.

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>>174370019
W-WHAT?!!!!!!

>>174370168
>>>>>>>Gold aura is separate from gold piles.
>>>>>Gold aura is separate from gold piles.
>>>Gold aura is separate from gold piles.
>>Gold aura is separate from gold piles.
>Gold aura is separate from gold piles.
Gold aura is separate from gold piles.

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>>174370231

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Nice.

will they ever add back death knight?

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I DO NOT COMPREHEND

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>>174370606
>non-tile DCSS

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>>174370606
>phasing
It didn't have to end like this.

>>174370724
No, just play Gl or Sk

>>174369083
they nerfed the shit out of the gold mesmerisation after piginabag abused it to perma-paralyse 100 zigs in a row

>>174370928
>IE
I don't get it

>>174371275
>muh dank refrance xDD

>>174366195
crypt of the necrodancer

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>MFW playing demigod of hermes ninja


>>174371275
Well at least you got the retired part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyder5QhWl4

>>174371238
>X gets nerfed or removed because somebody did something that crawldevs don't like with it
The story of Summoning
The story of cloud spells
The story of the ranges of every spell and especially lightning bolt and sticky flame
The story of evaporate and distillation
The story of boots of running, swiftness and haste
The story of rods with multiple spells
The story of Nemelex
The story of Vehumet

>>174371492
remember to hasty

>>174371168
but i dont like those they lack papa yred

>>174366854
this defeats the purpose of this genre

>>174371541
>not lucky
Gross
How much fast does hasty give?

>>174371862
Not enough to be worth the shitting it does on your skills.

>>174371862
it gives 3 fast, and you get it all at CL1 instead of needing to level up first
it's probably not a very good idea compared to just taking lucky

>>174371524
it's stupid that they design the game around "competitive" players

Let me have some epic op fun

>>174371524
They actually removed MD because someone (me) got a spoiler-free win with it, which is against their fascist ideology. There is one correct way to play, and if you don't get told what it is you're not supposed to be able to win ever.

>ninjas get 13 speedpoints at CL50

Holy FUCK

>>174372016
>it's stupid that they design the game around "competitive" players
Not even that. They design it over autism about "optimal play" and butthurt over players not playing the game exactly as the devs want them to.

>>174372080
sry, new to dcss, what is md?

>>174372274
Mountain dwarf.

What's the easiest combo to 15 runes?

>>174372082
Hermes demigod*

>>174372391
Tonberry monk of nature

>>174372391
MuMo

>>174372391
Bara Jedi

>>174372082
ninjas get +8 speed
you can get another +5 from certain races for +13 total, and throw hasty on top of that to get to +16

>>174372274
it's a minotaur but shorter and beardier
roleplayfags are mad they got removed because they want to be a dorf instead of a cow even though the races basically play the same

>>174372391
Vampire convict

>>174372391
If you go fast: SpEn or DDHu
If you don't go fast and rest/auto-explore: MiBe or DEWi

>>174372391
C E N T A U R
A
V
A
L
R
Y

>>174372676
>Wi
What? That's not a thing. Did you mean Wr or Wn or Wz?

>>174372676
How to fast with DDHu?

>>174372551
MD was a lot better and could actually pick up earth magic or divinations more easily.

I think they also had passive mapping.

Basically Mino is just a nerfed Mountain Dwarf so they removed dorf instead of making Mino in any way interesting.

>>174372391
OgFi^Qaz

>>174372750
he obviously means DDBe, which is the fastest combo known to man

>>174372743
I meant Wz
>>174372750
get Ash or Mahkleb and unbind rest and auto-explore

you fast as DD by otabbing and never stopping to press 5 because you literally can't
pressing 5 is the biggest contributor to high turncount
not sure why anon suggested hunter instead of just fi/gl though

>>174372931
Yeah I'm just biased and really dislike playing Trog since I need them books

>>174373090
Yeah I need those books too, them's good piety

>>174372983
>unbind autoexplore
only do this if youre an autist who puts 100x more importance on speedruns and low turncounts than on actual funhaving

>>174372551
Fuck off dev apologist faggot. Stop feasting on rancid semen and propogating lies.

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Minotaur
http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Mountain_dwarf

>>174372391
Easiest in what way?

Minotaurs are the easiest to get to extended in the first place. At that point, using a mixture of TSO (Pan+Hell) and Zin (Slime, Abyss, Tomb) will all but guarantee a 15rune win. MiMo was my first 15-runer when I was still bad at the game (like my 6th or 7th win) -- that's how easy it is.

>>174373172
also everyone on rlg will make fun of your win if it doesn't have a good score

>>174373304
one autist on rlg will make fun of you and then everyone else on rlg will make fun of that autist for caring about turncounts
and at least two people will shitpost about "tumcounts" instead

>>174373172
What if my funhaving comes about by pushing myself for lower turncounts?

>>174373489
then you should play a real speedrunning game instead of crawl

>>174373489
you don't get to decide what you think is fun in crawl. That's decided by a committee.

is mumo fun

>>174373871
only if you're a real man

if you don't think mumo is fun, then you are female.

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>>174356976

>one person watching me try mumo

HELP THE SOCIAL ANXIETY AND PRESSURE IS TOO MUCH

>>174373871
MuMo is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

>>174372862
MD is actually HO now. Current HO gets +1 axe, -2 Earth, -1 Fire, +1 Conj and some other miscellaneous stuff compared to MD, not a big difference.

>>174374338
link
I want to bestow false hope upon you then watch you die

>>174376293
You horrible person.

Incidentally, demigod ninja is fucking fun

>>174375565
HO is way worse at armor and shields, isn't good at crossbows, has different magic aptitudes, invo instead of evo and less strength gain. It's a completely different race.

>>174374338
lol me and my gf are watching you

she says you position your character like a virgin

>>174376428
ye

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>>174376676

>>174376430
Oh right, MD got +2 armour and +1 shield relative to HO. But the other stuff (aside from Earth which I mentioned) seems superfluous with respect to the niche that people would say MD fills.

>>174376894
You just conveniently forgot one of the most significant traits MD had. HO isn't anywhere close to their niche.

>>174373192
Yeah it's totally different. Minotaurs can't wear helmets so their playstyle is nothing like those of MDs.

>>174375565
>HO lost +2 in Axes
Disgusting
I take it soon every race will be "human with +1 here and -1 there"

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>kill biclops
>quaff selfknowledge
> discover liferating is 117/100

>>174377132
Then again HO DOES get +1 axe, so that's only +2 advantage across armour axe shield. And a normal shield is fairly awkward to work in for a kablaster early on even if they have +2 shield.
>>174377626
No. They get +1 axe compared to MD; MD had +2 when they existed, HO have +3 now.

>>174377626
>I take it soon every race will be "human with +1 here and -1 there"
Those are the ones that got removed. Remember when there used to be multiple kinds of elf?

What are fun gods to try on late/extended
I'm tired of Mak

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>>174377643
yusss vitality

>>174378206
tee-ess-oh. Same benefits of Mak in terms of healing, but ultra powerful summons, rN+++, blessed weapon, etc. means it's even better for Pan/Hell.

Zin is lots of fun, too, since almost everything in extended can be Recited to. Hill Orc of Zin and then pumping Invo will make you a wrecking machine. Plus, 50% chance to block Hell effects.

>>174378206
zin

>>174376792
basically ready to kill dad for his shoes
they are pretty nice shoes

>>174378717
DDoor shoes could nearly rival Feanor.

>use war/broad axe
>worship mak
>enter V:5
>press tab immediately after you descend the stairs
>clear everything
Why is Mak allowed
Why is cleave allowed

>b-but being surrounded is bad!
Please.

>>174378206
PRAISE
ZIN

>>174379535
I tried a hill orc of zin once and it felt pretty crappy
as in you literally couldn't do shit until pan/hell/abyss

>>174379647
YES BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND
YOU RECITE AT THE DEMONS
AND THE DEMONS ARE SMOTE
IT WORKS ON OTHER BEINGS TOO BUT NOT AS WELL
BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE SANCTUARY IS LITERALLY "I'D LIKE TO NOT DIE NOW THANK YOU" THE ABILITY AND MUTATION RESISTANCE IS SUCH A BIG QUALITY OF LIFE INCREASE

IF I HAD FORESIGHT I WOULD HAVE BEEN ALL HOLY ABOUT THIS RANT AND YOU WOULD HAVE TURNED INTO A PILLAR OF SALT

>>174379647
Probably didn't pump your Invo enough. Plus, Recite makes Vaults pretty interesting, since so many things will end up being confused or even sent to sleep.

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>Mana brand on a class without mana
Makes my heart bleed.
Still, no light is good.

>>174380051
Time for Vaults for another Sting.

>>174380170
>Quest: level 30

>>174380228
Oh, looked like he was in Mountain or some shit.

>>174380051
>mana brand on a 1d6 weapon
waow, it does the damage of a 2d6 sword instead
with the minor downside of costing all your sp

Weaponmaster Spoilers:

>Dagger Weaponmaster

>L40: (Toggled) Frenzy Stance: Attacks with every specialization weapon equipped and in inventory (with standard #blows for each), up to a maximum of 5 weapons (2 wielded + 3 inventory). The inventory weapons used must occupy different slots (i.e. if you have 99x Dagger (+10,+10) and nothing else, that only gives you 1 extra set of attacks). But all non-artifact inventory weapons are destroyed with such usage, and artifact inventory weapons are destroyed with 33% chance (i.e. in the case of 99x Dagger (+10,+10), you would have 98x Dagger (+10,+10) left afterwards). Equipped weapons are not destroyed. You lose 20N HP, where N is the number of weapons used in the round of attacks. Also, you suffer -8 Stealth.

How strong™ is this? It feels like a rather substantial pain in the ass, particularly if you specialize in the less common daggers.

>>174380843
where the fuck are you getting these spoilers because that sounds like you just pulled it out of your ass

in PCB the daggermaster's frenzy stance is just a bonus to blows and accuracy in exchange for penalties to stealth and AC

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Finally.
I'd prefer a +3, but this works too.

>>174381316

https://code.google.com/archive/p/chengband/wikis/WeaponmasterDaggers.wiki

Outdated spoilers, so it is probably wrong.

>>174381975
yeah that is from all the way back in Chengband
hasn't even got Poz'd yet

>>174382017

Is there a way to cheat a character to max level? I want to see what the different weaponmaster abilities are.

>>174382253
options -> game options -> "allow debug options"

then press ctrl-a in game, say "yes i really want to enter wizmode", press e to adjust stats and xp
then you can set your exp to 9999999999999

If you are a stabber, is there a point in keeping a shortblade once the enemies are awake instead of swapping to a longsword?

>>174382493
No
grab a demon blade or a double sword

>>174382493
yes because you can stab them again after you cast ensorcelled hibernation or confuse or dazzling spray on them
unless by "stabber" you mean "some dumbass who just trained stealth and has no backup options for when that inevitably fails"

>>174361985
In theosophy and anthroposophy, the Akashic records are a compendium of all human events, thoughts, words, emotions and intent ever to have occurred, believed by theosophists to be encoded in a non-physical plane of existence known as the etheric plane.

>>174382773
What section should I file it in for Dewey Decimal System purposes?

>>174383075
Non-Fiction

What roguelike will give me the most bragging rights when I talk about them with girls?

>>174386770
tummy

>>174386770
slex
exactly 1 girl cares about it and she's gay

>>174386770
DCSS
It's not only the most popular, but it's also got cute enough titles that you wouldn't look to autistic to normies

>>174386770
Unironically, Nethack or DCSS. If -- somehow -- you've found a girl who's interested in old school computer hacker-y bullshit, then Nethack will be the most likely roguelike someone will know. On the other hand, if she knows about roguelikes through Binding of Isaac and other roguelites, then Crawl will either be the only roguelike she knows, or the easiest one to introduce her to.

>>174386998
post pics or a physical description or a description of her personality from which i can infer a rough physical outline or some posts she has made from which i may deduce the aforementioned

>>174387829
she's a lesbian attention whore
she makes bad games and is probably fat and ugly or something but nobody (read: not me) actually knows

>>174387829
she is a gay german computer programmer with a fetish for gay german high heels (and probably gay german feet)
and she calls herself The Amy

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reminder

>>174387560
Can confirm, I've beaten crawl and nethack and when I go outside women's lower halves detach themselves and scamper at me.

>>174387965
>>174387979
i'm pounding my pud so hard right now

>>174388141
reminder to use your video player's screenshot function to make a proper image rather than prntscrn

>>174387965
>>174387979
wait so amy is actually a woman?

>>174388340
>implying i am the one who made that image
OC does not exist, i can only copy and paste

>>174388365
We can only take her at her word because it's literally 2017

If Amy says she's a girl, then she's a girl, and we should respect that, no matter how unfeminine her penis may be.

>>174379485

1v1 with axes is a suck

>>174388141
Which dcss boy would you date?

Does anyone remember the brief period of time when entering a treasure trove would anger your god? That was autistic bullshit, glad it got removed, best removal ever.

>>174390919
When was that? Pre 0.12? I don't recall that thing.

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This is the first time I have actually found one of these gloves. Never found them on my Sw Weaponmaster I reached endgame with and died to the Yamata no Orochi.

>>174390405
Dowan

>>174391092

It was recently, a few months up to a year ago? In the Summer? Must have gotten removed soon after they added it, because it wasn't there for long.

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What could possibly go wrong.

>>174391432
do your defenses go up or down when you Hydraform?

>>174390919
what was the logic behind that

>>174391432
Does hydraform restore life on hit or on kill? Is it any good?

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>>174391512

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If anyone is curious about my progress. Been diddling around in Arena and experimenting with dual-wielding. I will almost definitely switch back to sword/board when I find a better main weapon.

I think my speed is pretty comfortably in "overkill" territory, considering I have an unlimited, +10 Speed steroid on top of +31 innately.

I am debating what I want to enchant my off weapon with. Absorption seems important, but a bit unnecessary with Great Clarity Rod and ~150 Mana refresh from The Charmed Pendant (on 700 cooldown).

>>174391656
it restores life on kill
it's really great for chewing through absolutely preposterous quantities of popcorn and nearly trivial but not quite harmless enemies.
All in all, it's a lot of fun but it's not nearly good enough

>>174391759
I would be incredibly nervous walking around with that many resist holes.

>>174390919
what? that didn't get removed you dumbass
that is one of the many possible random trove costs
instead of a +6 FDA or a stack of 8 ?blink the trove might ask you to sacrifice all your favor with your god

>>174391608

"The treasure trove is materialistic, entering it will anger your God who is concerned with spiritual means" or something like that.

>>174391929
walking around with resist holes is only dangerous if you are walking around without detection or tele/telelevel

>>174392002

Fite me irl faggot, it's still a dumb cost because the reasoning only applies every now and then and your god doesn't care about any other "materialistic" things. REEE

>>174391929

Yea, sound/shards tends to be pretty bad damage sources. I have Nexus Resistant on my weapon, must have had something else equipped.

I do have permanent Telepathy, and *multiple* reliable escape options. I also always have a potion of life. That being said, if I see something like that Orochi fuck I am running, but I am careful whenever I see a unique.

Ideally I think I would replace my +7 speed ring if I can find one that covers all those resistances. ALso, once I go back to Sword/Board I can cover those resistances ez

>>174376894
>aside from being different in all their key skills, these races are the same!
They're all just Humans anyway so they should probably remove HO too.

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Status: bothered

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God dammit leave me alone.

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Demon-Form is pretty good.

You know what else is good? Rune Knights.

>>174393217
Does Demon Form change your EXP modifier? I've always wanted to do a strat based on playing a Yeek and polymorphing into something that doesn't suck.

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Fun combo, goes well with Makh.
>>174392462
All of the things that MD was stereotypically good at, HO is good at too. MD was slightly better at one thing, HO was slightly better at another thing, but the gist is that they are both "armoured kablasters that hit things with axes."

>>174393640
>dispel

>>174393682
And Hu is "good" at literally everything in the game, including everything Ho and MD are good at. Ho should be removed. Beogh is bloat anyway (an entire god for one (1) specific race what the fuck)

>>174393217
Oh, I've been wondering, What exactly does Demonlord form grant you? Maxed stats apparently, but what else?

>>174393682
>not mutscumming for robust
>not berserking for that coveted maxhp highscore
you are not my brother

>>174393879
Chaos Stone polymorphs are permanent. Demon Form would just be an inbetween because you still actually need to get the EXP when you true polymorph into something with a higher modifier.

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Why does MD guy never post his MD splats?

>>174394016
the grind isn't actually about getting a big number next to your level, it's about killing enough dudes to find enough sick loot to kill the next set of enough dudes and you just repeat this until the Serpent is dead.

>>174393682
I guess having 60% hp over the average goes well with makh.

On a side note, are there instances where a chei worshiper would rather use dragon form than statue form?

>>174394243
You're right next to the dude and you need him dead RIGHT NOW.

>>174393931
https://github.com/poschengband/poschengband/blob/master/src/races_mimic.c#L204

demonlord form has racial bonuses of +20 to every stat (replacing your normal racial stat bonuses) as well as
-110% liferating
-resistance to AcElFiCoPoCfCaNtDiNxFe
-immunity to fire
-aura of fire
-sinv
-telepathy
-levitation
-can smash through walls
-+20 AC
oh yeah also the "race" has 20 base device skill which is definitely an upgrade over whatever you had before. the highest real race is mindflayers with 15 skill

>>174393919
>Beogh is bloat anyway (an entire god for one (1) specific race what the fuck)

I unironically kind of agree with this. At least allow non-Orcs to worship Beogh with some downfalls, or give HOs a boost or something.

>>174393919
I actually think that the races differentiated entirely by aptitude are bloat. Every non-Hu race should have racial mutations.

>>174394353
Noice.
>>174393919
Well, I've played (crystal) plate HO castinator dudehitters and it went pretty well; if you don't want to try it yourself, your loss.

>>174394635
races differentiated mostly/entirely by aptitutude are ok as long as there are relatively FEW of them and they are each very different
nobody's gonna claim Mi and DE play too similarly even though they have no racial gimmicks and are basically "human with different apts"

>>174394861
Mi does have mutations though, and DE probably will be genocided with the rest of the elves eventually.

>>174394243

Why would you not use dragonform? You mostly have no reason to not use it with its ~ 3x statueform damage you'd dish out per turn

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FUCK YES. >>174391929 No more worry anon. Its all good. Rune Knights are retarded.

>>174393931

From what I can tell, it gives you a fuckton of stats, and a lot of useful innates. I think it also increases your Max HP, but I am not sure if that is just from the bonus CON.

It is not super reliable to cast though. Only have 48% chance with 18/148 INT *and* +% cast chance.

>>174395073
mi has mutations but horns are not anywhere near a major part of their gameplay whereas their apts are

horns are just a "kind of meaningful but mostly just there for flavor" thing like Spriggan Sinv or Troll "you are furry enough to have +1AC"
the important part of those races are the gofast and the claws of otab, not the secondary flavor mutations

>>174395084
I recall it being less than that, i'd argue 1.5 maybe 2 times, but having even shittier EV, no shield and no resistances other than jewelry is kinda bad.

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YESSSSS

Damn, this summoner is tough. I didn't particularly want to fight it, but it was guarding an Artifact Ring of Power and I really wanted that fucking thing.

That M below me is Orochi. I might need to leave soon.

>>174395582
You attack much faster in addition to doing more damage. You essentially have double the base damage of statue form with your melee, but swing at normal speed rather than 1.5x.

>>174395851
statform adds a multiplier to all melee damage to counteract the slowing. you take 1.5x as long to swing but you do 1.5x damage

so to compare statueform and dragonform you should just look at the base damage numbers, nothing else

>>174396042
not to mention the big defensive boosts
while dragon has trash ac and ev and resists

>>174396042
Part of the reason that the quick hits are important is that dragon form as aux attacks that actually matter. So while you have double base damage, you also get free damage from high frequency attacks. Dragon form also has free accuracy bonus. Its a pure offensive form that lets you absolutely destroy something with the strongest, fastest melee in the game. Statue form is much more defensive, but retains good value in being able to kill the dudes. Whatever statue form can kill, dragon will kill MUCH faster. Its just a question of if dragon form will be applicable in that situation. I'd want statue when fighting groups of fiends. I'd want dragon when 1v1'ing basically any panlord.

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This pleases me.

>>174396595
>1v1ing panlords with dragon form
I have never had so much fun in Dungeon Crawl in my life. Purple drac breathes dispel too, which is hilarious.

>>174395582

educate yourself

statue = 12
bladehands = 22
dragonform = 32

Statue has no aux attack and does everything 1.5x slower. It's the shittiest whether for 1v1 or fighting mobs.

>>174397029
It also gets a 1.5x multiplier, but you're right. Statue form is the "please don't torment me mister fiend" form

>>174396893
Were you the guy with 72 strength? That was absolutely insane.

>>174397294
I don't think so, I didn't post about my DrTm attempts here.
I just checked, and I only had 28 while mighted in dragon form
http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/ZChris13/morgue-ZChris13-20150530-195548.txt

>>174397228

Yeah but who does extended nowadays? Even the devs are very eager to cut quite literally half of its content via hellpan roll

>>174397536
Ah. There was another angry purple dragon who had HUGE strength that killed all the panlords in 1-3 hits. Cheizerking is one hell of a thing.

>>174397731
I think I'm going to go for a win with every flavor of draconian. Probably in 0.18.
>>174397731
Yeah I could never really get into Chei, so I just played atheist instead. By which I mean I cast Singularity. Thanks Sif.

>>174397536
My log contains this absolute gem:
123530 | D:9 | Noticed Teraigh the pandemonium lord
123532 | D:9 | Noticed an ancient lich
123536 | D:9 | Killed Teraigh the pandemonium lord

>>174398263
what game?

>>174378836
it's possible to pick up enough incidental speed to not need feanor's +15. hermes' boots still have +7. Heck, sometimes it's right to leave both home and wear boots of the golem...eventually.

>>174380843
dagger masters are great
dragon fang of ancalagon for president

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>>174398357
Ah yes. This would be the wrong general, wouldn't it?

>>174398517
I'm inclined to agree, friendo.

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Lets dance motherfucker

>>174388141
thanks almost aristotle
y-you too

>>174398617
>The attack of he has wounded himself!
Fighting when mist will freeze you with breath.

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RIP

He actually put up a crazy fight. Had to Stair dance twice and heal back up to kill him. Which was easy, because casting controlled phase door with 100% success rate is something Rune Knights apparently get.

>>174391759
>I CANNOT ATTACK WOMEN
you should probably slap Acid (or death) on Zantetsuken btw. It's not likely to be worth saving it unruned for Air because you'll find even better, but Acid is really good against a surprising array of strong monsters including some of the most dangerous humanoid caster uniques. Death would of course also be fine.

>>174392729
>>174392893
when you're in that depth the yamato no orochi will show up all the time and iirc it has a very large pathing and chance-for-detecting radius. Not Tselakus tier but still.

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>>174398617

>You no longer feel like a keeper

Apparently he ATATA'd your face so hard you feel self conscious about your appearance.

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>>174398835
IMO just be a samurai and do Musou Form

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>>174398904

I have moved on to better weapons. I might have wanted to put Death on Chrisdurian, but <<Air>> seemed worth it and probably better against truly dangerous foes (who put out far more damage than you can heal).

>>174396658
>not vilya or at least nenya
3/10 might not even equip, depending
you don't even get use from the *Fi or |F and demonform is alreaday overwrapping your stats, even when you got drained >>174395764 you were still capped on most

>>174399213
what you need to do is put air on the eternal blade

>>174399162
What does Musou do?

>>174399589
One of the only sources of retaliation but you can't attack otherwise.

>>174399584

What is the Eternal Blade

>>174399213
You may very well get better damage single-wielding Crisdurian than dual-wielding with that main gauche.

>>174400082

The Diamond Edge 'Eternal Blade' (7d7) (+32,+32)
+2 to STR, CON, Speed
Sharpness
Resist Time
Regeneration
It cannot be harmed by the elements.
Score: 226k

>>174399691
rather than retaliation it's a special retaliation-like effect
also rather than just 1 blow it retaliates with a full round of melee
i think actual retaliation is special-cased not to trigger these infinite retaliate loops but this isn't

>>174399589
musou does this: >>174399162

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>>174400454

>>174400082
>>174400315
more importantly it has a hardcoded 2x time brand

>>174400629
don't be sad 11 headed hydra
i'm sure your blasma breath will still ruin some of that nasty samurai's staves of healing

and you don't even have to drop any items for him, just make sure you throw money around instead as you die

>>174400697
More importantly it is the single rarest item in the entire game.

>>174401106
I had two diamond edges drop on a single character once, where they've practically never dropped any other time. Drops must be determined by class, right?

>>174401632
no not usually

>>174401632
Only for quests and it wouldn't make diamond edges much more likely.

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first response decides my fate. each post picks one thing (race class trait whatever)

the only thing you can't pick is name

I will play any result to the best of my meager abilities

>>174371856
so do tiles, ephemeraldeath, and modality, but 90% of shitter retards in this general play rogueliTes that have any of these features, such as PCB

>>174402063
press esc

>>174368185
>be Tm of Chei
>move 1 tile
>get rekt by 4 torments from 2 tormentors
>get destroyed by 4 damnations from a single hellion
>get rekt by 2 Brimstone friends casting 4 damnations
>Dispater casts LCS 10(ten) times
>an awoo managed to land a howl debuff
>a naga of Chei answers the summons
>-1000000/260hp
>Chei takes off his mask and reveals the face of a grinning Xom
>+15 stats and dat Slouch™ amirite lads
>Xom thinks this is hilarious

>>174402063
ESC for sure.

>ywn starve to death in orc because all the corpses cause nausea
I guess not everything they've removed is bad.

>>174402219
Honestly after they removed Singularity Chei stopped being fun.

>>174402063
lucky female beastman chaos warrior

or esc like the others said

>>174401632
>>174401838
>>174401883
yes drops are partially determined by class
kill a lategame unique as archer and there will be at least 2 piles of shitty arrows worse than the ones you already have mixed in with the loot pile

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>>174402118
>>174402228
>>174402424
rate my choices

>>174402063
for your class pick MAULER

>>174402345
Chei was fun back when he let you apply ponderousness brands to your gear and that was what gave you the bonuses.

They removed it because spiderform absorbed the brands and let you evoke feet and that was too much fun.

>>174402680
hasty is garbage and so are all your other choices
do a lucky demigod mauler instead

>>174402680
Just play the game dude.
You're going to die in a few minutes anyhow.

>>174402726
They also removed spiderform giving you running and also spiderform giving you CLINGING which was the tightest shit

>>174402598
>kill a lategame unique as a centipede

>showered with new shoes, good thing because I've got five slots to fill

>>174373871
yes
very
you have to tryhard like a motherfucker though to have fun
act like if you die in the game, you die in real life

>>174402757
>>174402774
chill out meganerds it's just a game and early game mortality is high in this one

obviously I'm gonna give each combo a few tries

if you all weren't such shitters

>>174403210
>each combo
Do you know how many fucking combos there are

Why did mumo become the challenge? Why not muck?

Is it just because xom's cumming? Muck is like mumo but with random confusion you can't cure.

>>174403321
MuCK is RNG horseshit
MuMo is about embracing the purity of Unarmed Combat

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>>174403321
MuCK is a minmay thing

Is chei any good for zigscumming? Or he is flat out beat by makhleb?

>>174403813
How exactly do you scum zigs? You're cheating by clearing the hardest content in the game multiple times?

>>174403321
because templescumming shit tons of free gifts

>>174403920
Let me rephrase it then, Is chei any good for clearing zigs?.

>>174403920

The first few Zig floors are basically FREE ITEMS. This is especially scummy back then when cmuts were in demand and it still is a scumhaven for speedrunners who lack items

>>174356885

Tfw I'm tired of crawl but don't want to learn an entirely new melee and spell system.

>>174403273
probably like 8million

I meant each combo that I think is interesting.

>>174405168
call it ziggdipping

>>174405168
zigscumming is when you can actually clear zigs with minimal problems (why) using a cheaty and exploitative method, like pre-nerf Gozag gold distraction or projected noise instead of the intended method of beating everything's face in

>>174405662
>ywn projected noise again

So what's the actual purpose of zigs, beyond the challenge and bragging rights? I haven't won extended yet but I've also never gotten to Zot without feeling like I had everything I needed already. Is it for specific rare shit you need?

>>174405529
>>174405662

It's not a simple goddamn dipping when you get FREE GUARANTEED items for literally no cost at all. The devs should do something about this, like either not being allowed to leave a Zig until you get past the last floor or locking Zigs until you have 15 runes

>>174406074
>they removed the dreaded breadration slap
why god

>>174406240
Challenge, they used to be easier in my opinion. Nowadays with all the corrosive and mana draining monsters out there its harder.

Would tonberry ninja be absurdly overpowered?
I splatted to a dracolisk because he breathed nether on my beautiful face yesterday and one-shot me.
Also is fleet of foot good on a ninja or is it useless considering that you can already narutowalk around?

>>174406863
You take fleet of foot if you absolutely must be completely and totally sanic. This was covered earlier in the thread.

>>174407005
>This was covered earlier in the thread.
You mean the old thread? ctrl-f'ing Fleet of foot gives me just our posts.
Anyway I'll just go demonic grasp and cult of personality as usual, then. But first I want to try out this tonberry thing.

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I haven't found a single non-unique that can significantly damage me or survive more than a single round of attacks.

Honestly this is extremely easy so far.

Tonberry dude with sting randart gets... 0.2 blows at level 30 after putting every point into dex and a grand total of 20 damage.

With maxstats, and the standart with +blows he gets 4 attacks and 420 damage.

Hades demigod gets 150+ at maxstats with both the randart and the standart with +blows.

So it's the usual thing of "it's gonna be great, but later". I'll stick to the demigod.

>>174408373
>Beta
Whuh?

>>174406863
fleet of foot makes you narutowalk faster. normal ninja quickwalk is 5x speed, fleet of foot on top increases that to a 8.3x, so you can run more than 8 tiles in the same time it would take you to spend one turn attacking or quaffing a potion or something

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>>174408551
apparently less than a day old

>>174408373
>berserker
>level 10
>easy
well duh
zerker is strong as shit early game, although the illiteracy fucks them hard later on

>>174408551
>putting every point into dex
you want a combination of str and dex though

>>174408801
For the tonberry? Dex is the one that rules the blows on light weapons and tombis have high str already.
In general dex is the ninja's casting stat and weapon stat and stealth stat, so it's better to level that up nicely first before str.

>>174408551
I'm putting every point into strength

>ninjas can't use nunchakus
For what purpose

>>174411745
nunchakus aren't really very ninja-ish
Unless you're implying that all that orient stuff should just get lumped together

>>174412024
they were originally made/used by ninjas though?
nunchaku are a modification of some weird fucked up traditional japanese farming tool
ninjas were peasants turning farming tools into weapons to assassinate feudal lords and shit

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Well I'm not rerolling this anytime soon either.