/domg/ - Dominions general

Previous thread:
>>>171363141

>>171485269
poor domg, no one even shitposts about backstabbing anymore.

do special monsters abandon sieges for other lands?

>>171487038
or I'll have to wait until the province is depopulated by the legion of gods?

Postponed by 24 hours because Ragha is stalling again.

>>171487592
5 stales, christ
find a sub

>>171487038
They do every once in a while.
Sometimes though they don't.

7 posts and already ded

>>171490782
Some fucker is clearly casting burden of time.

Does MA Ermor have anything that teleports around the battlefield like vampires?

>>171491985

Vampires dont teleport so I have no idea what do you mean. They fly tho, you mean anything that flies?

>>171492254
If that's flight then I guess I'm conjuring some rotten eagles soon. Thanks!

God, why can't you just bump the goddamn thread, you pathetic virgins.

>>171492541

Yes, flying units move instantly as there is no flight animation.

>>171491693
I cast Foul Vapors and then Vengeful Waters. All the enemy commanders got diseased and died. It took more than BoT to kill this thread.

>>171487868
A pain when you're restricted to phoneposting.

>>171494129

Just find a sub, thats what admin is for.

If one player somehow managed to hold onto every global slot what would be the combination of globals that would fuck the rest o the world over the most?

>>171496104
Well, Arcane Nexus is the most threatening spell in terms of actually winning, followed by Enchanted Forests if you have bloodsac or more temples than other folks.

If you mean just making everyone else miserable, I'd say Astral Corruption, Utterdark, Enchanted Forests, Foul Air, and Wrath of God

>>171496492
Mind, Arcane Nexus is pretty lame once AC goes up. People just stop using gems for some reason, makes it give no more gems than say Well of Misery.

>>171496492
What about Enchanted Forests, Vengeful Water, Looming Hell, Wrath of God and Foul Air?

>>171497323
VW is local to your dom. Keeps you comfy, but isn't necessary screwing the world over until they try to take you out. Looming Hell is annoying, but unimpressive. Mostly it's just used as a ghetto dispel, since you can spend blood slaves to take up a global slot.

>>171498009
But what if your dom is being pushed everywhere by enchanted forests?

fomoria and anyone interested in taking down lanka: contact me on steam - Filium

>>171498687
Don't attack me, that would be rude.

t. nicknight

>>171498687
>>171499850
imgay

>>171500349
me2

>>171499850
t. malakal

>>171502506
me3

>>171504068
WANNA RUB OUR BUTTHOLES TOGETHER?

>>171504993
You sure you're gay and not just a drunk chick?

>>171500349
It is not gay if I'm wearing cat-charm, r-r-right a-a-anon?

Gotta love these desperation bumps.

>>171506389
I dunno anon, wanna roll the DRN and find out?

>>171506904
Well we cant cast gift of health on the thread so we might as well work with what we got.

>>171506943
No thanks. Even if you did turn out to be a drunk chick odds are you'd a fat or ugly one.

>>171506904
There are only 17 posters, and I'm at least 2 of them, because phoneposting.

Give me innovative communion strats!
Stuff like soul vortexing your slaves and surrounding them in chaff, or putting them on the front lines as a "wall of death"

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This is my goodbye. in case my message dont go thru this turn.

"Having summoned each of the elemental royalty, even the tainted one. Having counceled with the Daeva and even with the Amesha Spenta, They finally understood the emptiness of existence.
They then retreated to their chamber, their former cell, and meditated and researched until their own body dissolved. In the process, they impregnated each of their subjects and devotees hearts, thus living forever as a thought, a sentiment. Even if a new Pantokrator shall rise, They will forever be remembered and revered even by the foreigners."

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post mages

>>171507460
I saw one dude send a guy to the arena with a ton of blood slaves to act as a barrier which I thought was pretty innovative.

>>171507469
you are going AI? nah mate you can't do that. just when the really good stuff was about to happen.

>>171508989
W-whats about to happen anon?

>>171510704
I bet you "wish" you knew

Looking for a Ragha sub.
He`s midsized and not in any wars as far as I'm aware (except the neighbouring AI player).

>>171511787
I am not AI!

>>171511787

What bless and how big is he +/-

>>171513815
10-15 provinces reasonable scales Griffin bless.
I can give you exact bless when I get home

Real talk for a second here. What's the use of the Bodhisattva of Mercy? Flying + Glamour + Awe should make for a decent thug/SC chassis, but she's so expensive in pretender points and low on HP. Air is pretty good for SC buffs, and astral has body ethereal but magic duel vulnerability.

But if you don't kit her up to hit people, you're paying a lot for random abilities. Healer isn't bad, but it's not make-or-break.

It just feels like there's nothing she does that isn't done better/cheaper by a different chassis.

>>171515396
Good for disciple games.

>>171515396
>>171515606
Also dragon girl shenanigans.

>>171515396
Probably there for fluff more than anything.

Going out of town on a golf trip from Wednesday until Sunday. If you could delay that would be fantastic. I could be down for sub but I really would rather delay.

Dominions cart racing game when?

Total War: Dominions when?

Dominion Souls when?

>>171520095
Yo I'd play the shit out of that.

Mortal Dominions when?

>>171520095
I think Total Warhammer is as far as they're ever likely to push nonhistorical/realistic content and that's nowhere near enough for Dominions.

>>171520640
Total Warhammer is good, though

Makes me want an officially endorsed Mount and Blade: Warhammer, rather than the (Admittedly fairly good) mod we have.

>>171521174
I dislike a lot of the mechanics in Total Warhammer. Agents especially. So many things feel like they are just slowing down the game and stopping me from having cool battles.

>>171517521
Ugh. We just had a weekend delay

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http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=2517

What do you think

>>171521174
Mount and Blade Dominions mod fucking when?

>>171521828
Who would the mages be

>>171521698
They're balanced against themselves, but we need more nations for a legit MP game. Other "shooting" modnations are either total thrash (X-COM aliens) or 2OP4U (Doom demons).

>>171507469
man i'd rather put the game on hiatus than have the biggest nation go AI


the point is RP, not winning. Kailasa leaving was already annoying enough

>>171522060
What about the star wars guys?

>>171521995
Really expensive recruits with OP as fuck ranged weapons. Maybe some of the other magic shit dudes have in some mods.
>>171522118
Wait the monkeys are gone?

>>171522145
They have really strong PD that honestly should be outlawed (shooting AoE grenadiers), but are countered entirely by arrow fend or A9 sacreds. Also, artillery is very important for those 3 gunpowder nations, and can kill most vanilla dom4 shit with infinite magic phase bombardments.

>>171522259
I mean the soldiers you have something to work with even if they are kind of bland, but for mages you'd be stuck with generic stuff with no flavour or lore

>>171522413
Some if the mods have some shit. I think there is a heroes of might and magic one that has undead summoning mid battle and I know there is one with healing spells.

>>171522413
>>171522572
Also just work in the lore by limiting the spell weapons to certain nations. Abysia gets a ton of fire shit and not much else, C'tis has death shit and so on.

>>171522720
I thought you meant making Dom4 mod nations out of the Mount & Blade factions? Like MA Swadia: Lions of Calradia or whatever

>>171522932
No the other way around.

>>171522932
>King Harlaus cast Feast
>Ctrl+M

>>171522259
yeah they went ai this turn

>>171523815
Sweet. Maybe the AI is dumb enough to try and storm through my pillar of fire meat blender.

>>171525620
hi abyssia. help me make caelum not quit

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Dom4 webcomic when?

>>171527446
Not like I have much say in the matter. I have one candle left and I am gambling that it'll last one more turn either for the monkeys to furder themselves on my fort or for me to summon enough fire snakes to try breaking out.

All those fire spirits I summoned when I had eternal pyre up were super worth it by the way. Its pretty much thanks to their gem generation that the chimps couldnt just wear down my last fort by attrition.

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>>171527548
it already exists

>>171528173
Now, build out each pretender with appropriate stats given their abilities and whatnot.

>>171528662
I was planning to do a kill six billion demons mod, DOOM 4 and samurai jack happened

>>171528754
Do a samurai jack mod nigger. I want to be Aku and crush FOOLISH SAMURAI with my robot armies.

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>>171528662

>>171528982
>implying an Aku nation would be capable of making the necessary Anti-SC natively

>>171529234
Just wish for his sword lel.

>>171529234
Can always just cast him forward in time gain if worst comes to worst.

>>171529204
blood astral fire. nature and death hasn't been shown.

>>171530171
Arguably the tree dude that de-ages counts a blood magic and she certainly has nature magic.

>>171529405
Season 5 about to show you why that won't work.

>>171528662
Jaggy is an E4 giant with 99 prot and resistance to everything

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Cute LAtlantis art

>>171532635
noice

>>171532635

I love Deep Ones!

dom4 is 14 bucks on GG

>>171534350
Still 14 bucks too many.

>>171534495
>implying you haven't gotten hundreds of hours of entertainment out of the game, causing the price per hour to go well below a penny

>>171534695
It's 0.0082352941176471 bucks per hour for me.

pls don't die while i sleep

>>171535086
Don't sleep then

>>171535086
Don't worry about me, I hid my viscera outside of my body.

>>171535350
>superpowered hindu demon god cant figure out immortality despite cutting his head off multiple times
>little bakemono shits can do it no problem
Kek

>>171535909
Imagine the god of war and victory doubting the fact that he'll always win. He'll just stop existing at that point. Same with not needing such lowly forms of existence as immortality.

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>Magic Enhanced

I wish Dryad Hoplites were good.

Is there a way to copy and paste in the message box? I have a message I want to send to 5/6 players, and typing it 5 times is a bit much.

Ctrl+V doesn't seem to work.

>>171541704
You gotta type that shit manually, reminds me of an ancestor of mine who worked as a secretary in the civil war for Lincoln and signed tens of thousands of bonds for 36 hours permanently disfiguring his hand and maiming him. Ctrl-v is for weak 1st world babies.

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Is it kill?

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I made a natgen with only nations led by female mages, would there be any interest in such a thing.

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>>171544975
I'm also trying to figure out how to edit the dm to remove non female pretenders for ultimate immersion, if anyone knows that would be cool.

>>171546146
That's a good mage. What are her randoms?

>>171546217
Meh. she's an ethereal Elder Druid. Those guys are all right, but nothing to rave about

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>>171546217
Here, the nations are fairly diverse despite being seeded from only amazonian theme some get lizardmen slaves, other sub races different types of cavalry, and largely different paths.

>>171546304
Not if she has A random, muh boi.

>>171546401
You're right, of course. Now she's an iron adept++, which is much cooler.

>>171546304
Ethereal on its own is pretty nice, makes them fairly resistant to RoS and EQ.

If she's cap only that's not great, but she might be rec-anywhere which would be amazing.

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>>171546449
Shes cap only, another nation had some very cost effective ghost apes though.

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>>171521698
>Varlam casts Blessing

>>171546618
>150g S1N1
>not even sacred
"cost effective"

Finally this game is over.

I can give a short writeup of my thoughts on warhammer dwarves, if anyone is interested.

I'd also be interested in hearing what you other guys playing thought of your nations

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>>171546640
Thugged tanks are almost as good as cyberdemon assassins.

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>>171546663
sort yourself out

>>171546389
Are there any power armor nations? Always love those.

>>171547302
What do you mean by power armor? Humanoid giant cav? None of those sadly.

>>171547415
Hoburg power armor dudes.

>>171547081
It's shit

>>171547713
All it needs is a Lance to be fair
or more Prot.

>>171548152
Nope. Still shit.

>>171548152
If it had both, it would still be a worse, non-sacred windrider - ie, it's shit

>>171548268
>worse, non-sacred windrider
You get an amphiptere when it dies, that's a pretty big benefit that windriders don't get.

Still not worth 60 gold though. Maybe if it had a temporary second shape like zhayedans instead of dying shape.

>>171548492
Ah, so it's more like a cave knight except without having incredible hp and prot on the dead thing

post more natgen stats

just post the mods

Finally I'm free from this game, holy damn.
This marignon took forever to kill a dying nation. I even had to demolish my own temple to help him domkilling me.

>>171552205
Did mari run a quadbless in that gme too?

>>171552234
No, only D9.

I rushed him and on turn 9 he was sieged in both of his forts and down to 1 or 2 provinces. But then Bats backstabbed me and I had to retreat.
Then bats defeated me and they did the infinite BM of letting Marignon take my cap.

I'm not mad, though, as I killed lots of units.

>>171546751
Yes, please. I want to hear about what the WH nations are like.

>>171552528

Dwarves seem like a worse Ulm. Mainly due to more expensive units and -path for mages in combat.

Bretonnia has no usable mages and elite excellent cavalry. Not even sacred tho.

Wood elves and high elves have extremely overpriced units and decent mages, nothing stellar tho.

Lizards have fuckall if they dont abuse their Slann but that limits them a lot. Troops are good and get a lot of sacreds too which is also good.

Empire has mediocre troops and a lot of usable mages. Nothing really outstanding tho.

All in all order is extremely underpowered.

>>171552528
Sure. There weren't any other warhammer nations in this match though, that was a different game.

Also, I fail at writing briefly. This will be multiple posts.

First off, their commanders. They have an amazing scout (20g, high MM and survival on basically all terrain, terrain rec on caves). I made a lot of these, the only scout I like more is harpies.

They also have the Thane. He's a shitty commander, but he's worth building because he comes with 100g worth of your basic infantry for 80g. He can be permanently stationed in provinces by changing his shape, and gives +2 PD per turn. I really liked this mechanic. The PD didn't really end up very helpful for me in this game, but against raiding nations I imagine it could be quite valuable.

Finally, there's the miner. Stealthy and high mapmove, if you're recruiting national commanders this is the guy to get, especially to leader miner troops.

Next, mages. In my opinion, you should be building almost entirely Engineers outside your capital, and Runelords inside your capital.

Runelords are amazing mages, and one of the major strengths of Dwarves. They have good path variety (F/A/E/W/S) along with Master Smith and Forge Bonus, letting you churn out a wide variety of items for basically zero cost. I rushed construction and got a ton of work out of 1 gem lightless lanterns and owl quills. They're a great way to get into new paths too, as with master smith a single empower will often be enough to start forging boosters.

Engineers are good for their price, and get a fairly diverse set of paths. You get a variety of E2F1, F2, and A2 mages at 140g each (and they come with armor). 1/4 don't get very good paths, but I ended up building water bracelets and lenses to let them cast quickening. At 2 gems per engineer, it's actually quite doable.

(1/3)

>>171552528
>>171557853
The rest of the options are poor. Runesmith apprentices get substantially less useful paths than engineers (the S1E1 are nice, but not nice enough), and Journeyman Runesmiths and Runesmiths look good until you realize they get -1 to all paths in combat, making the majority of them absolutely worthless in a fight.

I went Drain and Runesmith Apprentices for research, and I regret that. I'd rather have not taken drain and recruited a bunch of engineers instead.

Finally, their troops. They work in an odd way compared to most nations - the initial cost is very high, but they get a large rebate on upkeep. I found the price to be quite crippling, as you often don't keep troops around long enough for the difference in upkeep to make a difference, and the high upfront cost makes recruiting armies take a long time.

Out of their troop roster, I only found four units to be worth using. Their two varieties of basic infantry because they're the cheapest there and have a nice siege defense bonus, their miners because they're stealthy and have a massive siege bonus, and their slayers because they're actually worth the cost in a fight.

The rest of the troops are just severely overpriced. 25g crossbows, Hammerers costing more than giants upfront, and mediocre sacreds at 55g with no upkeep rebate.

I didn't end up using their national combat spells. The high level ones are not practical to bring out, and the low level ones are weaker than the same gold of Engineers spamming generic spells. I didn't like most of their national rituals either, except for Prepare Vessel, a 12 gem S3 Divine Name.

(2/3)

>>171552528
>>171557920
They come with a few national items, many of which are amazing. First is a misc slot item which blesses the unit, which allows much more variety in SC builds than shroud. The second is another misc item which makes the holder permanently berserk. The lack of ability to buff is an unpleasant loss, but you can do some fun things with berserk golems. The third is their crossbow of immolation, which is a nice 1 gem ranged item for scouts or commanders, as the other dwarves player in the warhammer match discovered.

Overall, I think they're fairly powerful (for a vanilla dominions nation) but boring.

I disagree with >>171556336. I think Dwarves are about on par with MA Ulm as power goes (which is, to be fair, often on the weak side for modnations), though they have a different power curve.

Both are good early, their heavy armor makes them hard to deal with before mage support rolls around. In midgame Ulm really comes into its own with evocation spam, whereas Dwarves can't compete well - their mages can throw down the pain but their troops aren't expendable enough to tank hits back.

In lategame, dwarves really come into their own. They have much better native path diversity than Ulm, better variety in combat magic when magma eruption stops being useful, and Troll Slayers which are combat monsters when buffed up. Also, they crack or defend forts very well, which helps mitigate their lack of mobility.

(3/3)

We really need more modnation games and analysis like that. It's a great read and may be useful to balance the mod.

>>171558229

The only edge that Dwarves have over MA Ulm is their bigger native diversity but in a straight 1 on 1 fight Ulm will easily win until late game.

Way cheaper troops and cheap crossbows and cheap combat mages with specialized paths versus expensive troops and mages with a random factor. Not a good match until you get a lot of research done.

That having said MA Ulm isnt a very strong nation and this only shows how weak Dwarves really are.

>>171559089
>MA Ulm isnt a very strong nation and this only shows how weak Dwarves really are.

Where did the "Ulm is weak" meme come from? EA and MA Ulm are both near the top of the table on the wins spreadsheet in the OP and LA Ulm is solidly in the middle.

Is it a holdover from Dom3 where they were actually weak? Or is it just they are a go-to nation for beginners and so people are used to seeing them get crushed?

>>171559290

Its my personal educated opinion coming from playing many games against MA Ulm and never having any issues with beating them.

Their kit is extremely easy to counter but if you lack the required paths you may be in some troubles.

>>171558235
>balance the mod
Right, I wanted to give my suggestions on that too.

I think they're in a relatively good place power-wise right now, so these changes are intended to mainly make some of their terrible options less terrible.

>give Troll Slayers a recruitment limit per turn, possibly decrease price a bit to compensate
The idea is to prevent dwarf players from just churning out a ton of the low-resource guys when needed, forcing them to build up their forces over time like with their other troops. I'd try reclimit 10, or maybe reclimit 5 with a gold cost reduction to 22.

This nerf is mainly to balance out giving them more troop and mage variety.

>remove the -1 paths in combat in runesmiths
It's just dumb, and they'd hardly be OP without it. I think I'd still prefer engineers, but Runesmiths would be an option for people who want more reliability in their midgame magic, at the expense of having less of it.

>remove the astral path reduction from journeyman runesmiths, increase holy path to 2.
Gives you reliable, if expensive, communion slaves and a group of 12+ could communion use their holy magic. Actual reason to recruit them, if niche.

>increase rate of fire on dwarven xbows
>significantly improve hammerer, ironbreaker, and runeguard stats
>remove size restriction on ironbreaker armor destruction
>give runeguard a minor upkeep rebate
Just in general tweak their less useful units to have something going for them to justify 2x base cost over humans, beyond having heavy armor.

>>171536697
But he actively wants immortality.

>>171559560
If you can be beaten by a NEET lich, you're just a shitty god.

>>171559089
Dwarves are going to go down hard against Ulm in early-mid game, absolutely.

It's a good matchup for Ulm - heavily armored troops against their destruction spamming mages - and it's the point of the game at which dwarves are weakest.

However, once you start getting towards the end of midgame I think it'd be a lot closer than you think. Dwarves can use golems much better than Ulm, and their diversity of paths means a variety of options. They can stuff forts full of high siege defense and cloud trapeze air elemental casters all over the place to raid.

Once dwarves hit Alt9 Ulm is going to lose every fight to quickened ironskin maniacs, though I guess that's what you mean by lategame.

>>171559378
>Their kit is extremely easy to counter but if you lack the required paths you may be in some troubles.
Could you explain how to counter Ulm's kit in midgame?

>>171559290
Two places
1.) Very weak in dom 3
2.) There's a set of really shitty players who take those nations pretty often; ie, todger, malgrib, etc.

>>171560310

How to counter MA Ulm:
Air - thunder strike spam, so as usual, since it is AN instantly kills humans and has aoe component it obliterates Ulm and comes before Ulm has anything to respond with. Alternatively can use air elementals for trampling as trample is AP and Ulm lacks magic weapons.
Blood - bloodletting absolutely murders Ulm and also reinvigorates/heals your mage allowing him to cast it again. Two casters can wipe out entire armies, deadly combination of AN and MRN.
Death - skelespam Ulm until fatigue kils the troops or shadow blast for AN MRN godly evocation. Later on you also get darkness and bone grinding and both of those also murder Ulm.
Nature/Water - foul vapors are surprisingly effective against Ulm as long as you can hold out long enough.
Nature alone - you have to rely on poison but fortunately no nation only gets Nature.
Earth - either the usual AP spells like maws or armor removal with EQ or earth elementals. Earth isnt a very good counter path though, not until you get some research done.
Water - water blows and is weak at countering Ulm until later on. You can wolven winter in advance and then grip of winter to fatigue it out but that needs time in battle to work. Ice elementals are better than earth elementals if you can have them.
Fire - also not very good. Evo spam is your best bet or again elementals.
Astral - cascades are great and late game it murders Ulm with MRN spells.

ABD are the obvious best counters to Ulm.

Back from the fucking bush
jesus christ they said there was going to be electricity and wifi but there was neither of these things
instead i had to deal with water that was milk white from all the chems they had to throw in it to make it safe to drink, liver stuffed intestines, porta potties with tyres as toilet seats and a horde of unwashed fucking uni students

music festivals not even once

>>171560817
The problem with all of these is that they just don't do as much damage as Magma Eruption.

Ulm's troops cost the same as yours and he'll be killing your chaff way faster. He gets 135g evospammers which can do good damage to 5 squares a turn, so you're going to have a very hard time doing damage faster than him.

Shadow Blast might be frontloaded enough to fuck up Ulm's army before your own frontline evaporates. Bloodletting might be a viable option due to Ulm's low MR, but MR is fairly easily fixed for Ulm. Those are the only two strategies which sound like they have a chance of actually working.

>>171561428

Magma eruption is evo6, bloodletting is blood5, thunder strike and all elementals are evo5/conj5, shadow blast is evo5.

Also magma eruption is 25 range. Good luck actually hitting anything with it when facing enemies with 100 range spells or battlefield aoe.

And how do you propose to fix Ulm mr? It cant natively cast antimagic and even with it you only get 13 mr troops. 13 mr means that 24% of your army wil still be affected, with army of 100+ thats enough to force a rout quite fast.

>>171559290
>>171560316
Wait a second, what makes EA Ulm not bad?
I can see the other two being arguably good, but EA has nothing other than forgers and RoS access.

>>171562062

Its not bad its mediocre. Their main advantage is good troops but they are in a age of superhuman troops and sacreds so it only helps them stay in the middle.

>>171561765
>It cant natively cast antimagic
They get a national Thaum 5 version of antimagic which is E3 and doesn't cost gems. It needs their units to fail a MR check, but you can easily set up a bunch of casts to cover nearly your entire army.

Alternatively, spend 30 pearls on an empowerment (you'll want it anyway for a bunch of other reasons like golems) and forge an astral booster.
If you have a diversity pretender you probably have astral there, which means you can skip the empower.

>Magma eruption is evo6, bloodletting is blood5, thunder strike and all elementals are evo5/conj5, shadow blast is evo5.
Magma Eruption coming out slightly later is not going to be a massive issue for Ulm, but I suppose if you rush them immediately once you hit your research goal you might win a fight or two. I suspect Ulm will just pull back until Evo6 instead.

>Also magma eruption is 25 range. Good luck actually hitting anything with it when facing enemies with 100 range spells or battlefield aoe.
Sit mages near the front, use a single attack command after earthpower. Magma Eruption is now in range of your backline.

>>171562062
Steel Maidens are really good troops (Cheap, stealthy, two attacks) and EA Ulm has good paths to buff them.

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>/v/anheim is kill
>/domg/ is dying
>all the other english dom4 forums are getting slower
so which alive game should I move too

>>171562408

>sit mages near the front

Yes, I am sure this is a great strategy and will work for you.

>empower to s2 and bring the mage into combat

And pray that the enemy doesn't magic duel your caster you mean?

I have personally obliterated 1k+ strong MA Ulm armies and can vouch for my advice. MA Ulm is very easy to counter.

>>171562615
conquest of elysium

>>171562972
Lol, nope. Go on Dom4Mods and do something...write a guide to the nation you're best with, make a mod, make a map, or just offer feedback on something...we just need new players to be able to find cool stuff. Then they'll stay and the community will get larger.

>>171562138
>>171562062
Excellent cheap stealthy troops, RoS access, 115-135 gold mages with versatile combat applicability, forging. E2 is an excellent buff/debuff path, which is exactly what you want, but you also get occasional f2, a2, w2 and n2 access, as well as a stupid amount of crosspaths.

Between mm2, nigh universal stealth, 2 a survivals, terrain rec, and the ability to relocate resources, EA ulm is one of the most mobile/flexible nations in the game (apart from the fliers). Moreover, their troops have good strength, HP, prot, and 2 high damage attacks. As a cherry, most nations see a 3 or 4 gold increase for +1 to attack, morale, and defense. For that price, steel maidens get +2 morale, +2 attack, +1 defense, and better equipment.

Basically, for the price of any one elf army, you can field 2.5 Ulm armies, each of which are nearly as good, and, unlike most humans, have solid enough combat stats to back it up.

>>171562650
>Personally obliterated 1k strong man Ulm armies.
Looks like the issue us that you're playing against morons. I've never seen a competent player, outside freespawn nations, put together a 1k+ unit stack.

>>171564783

>Looks like the issue us that you're playing against morons. I've never seen a competent player, outside freespawn nations, put together a 1k+ unit stack.

Only /domg/ finest!

Jokes aside MA Ulm is a nation designed to use doomstacks. Your slow mm1 troops aren't good for raiding - they aren't stealthy, their movement is predictable, they can be countered very easily. The nation can't thug well either (in b4 smith thugs hurr). It leaves you with big army stacks moving around. If you separate into 50-60 troops raiding stacks the enemy can just beat them one by one with his army that will be faster and/or stealthy.

Plus most of my suggested counters apply even better to smaller stacks. Especially the elementals.

>>171565148
Ulm does hilarious Innovative thugs though.
N9 black servants or any number of summons with cheap shrouds and shit.

>>171532635

Awesome.

Make an Angakut. I need a new avatar.

>>171532635

Would frogs even survive in cold?

>>171568248
More like make an angakutslut

>>171569252
I think so. Pretty sure some frogs spend the winter frozen underwater.

>>171569589

Yes they hibernate or something. But thats not really being active during the cold.

>>171571669
There are frogs in the arctic circle. Even then Atlantians are less frogs and more some weird deep sea creature that looks like a fish/frog/man hybrid.

Hey guys what are some good or decent summons with nature and why are they any good? I like to use wolves for seiges and defense, and tarraques as a chassis.

Ragha sub needed.

At least 15 provinces big (+whatever he vulturered from Man and AI Atlantis +those 2 indie provinces I said he could have).
Bless is W9E4/6.
Will probably have 2 big players sucking his dick to support them in their war against eachother, so not in a bad position.

Please respond because I hate phoneposting.

>>171574480
Vine men are also pretty good for sieges and Vine ogres are pretty decent blockers.

>>171574480
Faerie Court for getting Air on semi-decent level (have to empower to craft +A helmets).

>>171574480
Wolves. Use them for patrols, sieges, etc.

Tarrasque is acceptable in summod.

Mantises fuck up ethereal units.

Manticores are decent with buffs.

Are there mages that dont need a lab to recruit?

>>171574674
Actually why have I never used manticores? 5 nature gems for that seems kinda okay if you are swimming in nature, and fear on a flying unit lets you attack rear and maybe rout half of his mages.

>>171574480
leogryphs are better than wolves for sieges

>>171575041
Yes, some.

>>171575146
Who?

>>171575224
Soothsayers, Machakan Witch Doctors, maybe someone else. Just launch the inspector, lazy fag.

>>171575294
I aint got the time to trawl through every single mage in the inspector.

>>171575041
Those that have less than 100% random magic paths

>>171575535
I aint got the time for fags like you, laddie.

>>171574508

What turn is it and how long was he staling?

>>171575567
Yeah because we are so busy in this dying thread. God forbid we talk about something related to the game.

>>171575843
Talk then. All you did were throw a hissy fit because someone refused to spoonfeed you.

>>171575908
Thats what I was trying to do you handicap. I already know about most of the mages you dont need labs for, I was just trying to go for something a little bit more original than which god is your waifu.

>>171576267
You failed miserably and should be ashamed of yourself. Leave "pretending to be retarded" plot hook for other boards.

do your cucking turns

>>171576363
>try to ask a question to keep the constantly dying thread alive
>lol go find out yourself
Fuck you man, Just for that I'm casting burden of time on this shitty thread.

>>171576507
Oh, sorry, we should all be thankful to you. Great job keeping the thread alive. No small feat that one.

>>171546860

>not making tank assassins

>>171576721
It can't bless itself. If we prophetize one though...

>>171569252

Frogs from the bottom of the ocean, maybe.

>>171575041
Soothsayers are the most famous, LA man's Magisters and judges, and a handful of not very useful mages that aren't worth Recruiting

Have you ever successfully pulled off/ got shafted by the battlefield-wide mind control spells?

>>171580938
Yes. To both. In the same game. Multiple times.

>>171581024
Same

>>171581024
undead mastery's a hell of a drug

How do I LA Pangea? Sorta interested in an imprisoned Sphinx with soul drain paths and scales

>>171581646
Use your good units, ignore your shit tier ones, recruit centaur sages everyfuckingwhere they're damned good mages, use Pans for heavy battle lifting, your sacreds are mid tier at best

>>171582273
Full scales in that case.

>>171582273
Also, centaur cataphracts are a given, the minotaurs are shit, as are the undisciplined satyrs but how are stymphalian birds and the armoured satyrs? Also, how do I expand?

>>171581646
Take an awake, run Prod 3, get big, spam out snipers and sages.

Its scripting plays most similarly to Arco, I'd say, though there are noticeable differences - your mages are cheaper, but don't have all the crosspaths. You have pans available out of cap for non-communioned earth stuff (which is nice when you want to cast E and N buffs but use an air communion). You have recruitable crossbows instead of elephants. And so on. The reason I'd say it's like Arco is mostly that your battlemagic has amazing evo and utility, but requires communions to set up and you'll need to juggle slave/master paths.

To add on to >>171582273, satyr hoplites are your go to lineholders (and are MM2), satyr snipers have higher prec than indy crossbows and better armor but cost more (but are worth using if only for MM2), Centaur Cataphracts are really tanky but expensive. The fact that they have enough prot + a shield to survive crossbow fire is REALLY nice, though. It takes them something like 30-40 bolts apiece to go down, so I like using them as lures. Their HP density will also make them draw thunderstrikes, though, and a cataphract square costs double a hoplite square

Harpies are good as bodyguards v assassins. Stymph birds are also good as raiders v PD (especially when the PD has crossbows or archers or when you can target the commander, as is the case for a few nations) but have trouble actually hurting armored targets.

>>171583038
It's easiest to expand with cataphracts. You can do crossbow expansion, which leaves you with more stuff that you want to use to fight players when you're done, but cataphracts get you more exp parties more quickly

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>7 nations AI, 5 of them having perfectly healthy empires

we were off to such a good start

>>171584479
gomen senpai, I really wanted to keep playing but just didn't have the time

>>171584604
then why did you sign up?

everyone knows that a big game with RP takes time.

>>171585142
It was holiday and I had time. I didn't think it was going to last more than 60 fucking turns

>>171585238
i'm under the impression that generally pbems last 90

>>171585467
rarely. they very often ends at 50 turns, but you should always be ready for close to 100. which can be anything from 3 months to 6.
i don't really get "there's holidays anyway" mentality, since you know for sure that even a short game last longer than holidays.

>>171585739
No, see, I thought at the time "Yeah I can do a late game turn in about half an hour, even when uni opens again I should manage". But I was also in 17 games which was A Mistake

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>>171586025

>>171583696
write guide plz

>>171575745
23.
2 stales early, 2 stales now and 1 inbetween.

But like I said he's in a much better position than some of the players ingame that haven't staled at all.

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I will fight to protect /domg/'s smile

What factions in MA are like realy bad?

>>171593328
in vanilla: Marignon and Xibalba
in summod 0.72 ANYONE TAHT ISN'T NAZCA REEEEEEEE

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>>171538636
>The things I do to fuck this kid's mom

>>171528754

Do it.

>Knight of Thorns summons.
>Concordant Angel sacreds.
>Zoss or demiurge pretender.
>devils n shit.

>>171594042
>Xibalba
opinion discarded
Mari also has ISSUES but it can at least do stuff

>>171593328
Vanilla: Man, any UW nation that shares the sea with Pelagia (and Oceania and Atlantis even if they have the sea to themselves), Machaka, and then on the next tier up you've got stuff like Shinu which still have tools to do well but are very noticeably weaker than the stuff like Ulm, Agartha, and Pan

The wait for Marv to stale is killing me

>>171597336
>new marv
>new stales
truly we are blessed to live in such exciting times

>>171595742
Xibalba in MA ranges from utter trash with no caves, to practically top tier with abundant caves. No nation is even half as terrain dependent as them, since their only useful combat mage recruit outside of capital is cave recruit only.

>>171597562
Wayob are pretty neat too. You're right that Xibalba becomes top tier with caves, but they're still mediocre rather than uttertrash if they have a significant number of forests.

Spot on about them being map dependent

>>171593328
Really bad? Man and Shinuyama are both pretty shit IMO. But Abysia, Tien Chi, Vanarus, and Ashdod are also definitely low-tier nations in my mind. Mostly because of shitty magic - Vanarus, Abysia and Ashdod basically have to rely on 1 just ok mage out of their caps, and Tien's are just shitty low paths. Some people can make Tien work though...I'm not really sure how. Shinuyama also has very lackluster troops, and Ashdod suffers from very expensive mages, a cap-only bottleneck, and people being scared of them when they're not actually powerful.

>>171594649
I could try making a pretender and see how it looks.

huh, just found out mounted monsters don't suffer armor encumberance

>>171598757
>TC
>cap dependent
It's like you don't like some of the best mages in the game

>>171598757
>Vanarus
>low tier

Do you even Chud?

>>171598757
>this shit opinion
Rus is in the top tier of MA nations with Pan, and Agartha. It has amazing rec anywhere infantry (legit the best nonsacred recruitable in the game), top tier efficient mages with forest rainbows and thunderstriking, storm demon summoning sages, and has probably the best path spread of MA.

TC is an amazingly strong midgame nation. Geomancers are among the most efficient mages in the game, and at their evo 5 / thaum 1 powerspike they can clobber any other nation with similarly costed armies. Their issue is that they can't really get elite units, so they fall off in the end game.

Ashdod is one of the stronger dueling nations because many nations simply CANNOT handle their sacreds. Ashdod with E9N9 can basically guarantee itself a second capital and while their mages are less efficient than the paragons of battlemagic like UIm and TC, but they have solid utility with E2 and S2 and can drop fire elementals with F2 for handling skelespam. So with sacreds strong enough to carry the early game (especially against human nations that just literally can't hurt the giants), useful out of cap nations, and summonable thugs for astral-dumps, it's definitely solid.

Abysia is definitely trickier, in part because it needs its pretender to help cover for it. It's one of the only nations where I'd consider a 'rainbow' chassis to be strong (though they can also do well with a maneater, their scales hurt a bit if they get soul contract paths). Their expansion remains clean as fuck, though, and with a pretender that can make soul contracts and E2+, though, they can still do well in the midgame. Late game, they're still a blood nation. Massed warlocks are amazing to have, growing in usefulness as you get more research for them.

tl;dr your opinions are shit

>>171599454

D O I T
O
I
T

>>171600828
I question TC's strength midgame, since Geomancers are a single RoS away from being mush.

Also the 25 gold cost of Chuds makes them debatable if their the best nonsacred recruit in the game. Einhere are 5 gold cheaper, Steel maidens 11 gold cheaper, revelers 12 gold cheaper, and deep one spearman 15 gold cheaper. And while unit per unit chuds are the best, I'd consider all of those at least contenders given certain circumstances due to pricing.

>>171603358
RoS is one of the spells that I'd consider marking the start of end game.

Chuds crush Revellers. Seriously, test them out in a 2v1 fight, chuds win handily.

>>171595742
Can confirm, MA Atlantis is shit tier compared to both other Atlantis's.

So now I know what factions are shit, what factions in MA are good/viable?

>>171603575
start of late game* rather. end game would probably be everyone having everything.

Basically, I'd say that mid game is the point where mage support starts to define battles, and early game armies stop working. Late game is the point where your army counts come online, be they SCs or battlefield clear or whathave you and midgame armies stop working. Either way it's a definition thing, so not really relevant. But yes, TC has issues with RoS (and massed equake even earlier than that) which it needs to play around. That's part of its weakness against certain other nations and why it's not top tier

>>171603710
Ermor, Pangaea, Agartha, Ulm, Vanarus, Vanheim, Jotunheim

>>171603575
What about with buffs, especially endgame buffs such as Army of Foo?

I don't need to test to know Chuds will likely win against all of those when none are buffed (Einhere and Steel Maidens probably do best). But its who takes to buffs better.

Personally deep one spearman are my favorite, due to full darkvision, cheap price, amphibious, can cast iron-bane without a care (or Acid Storm with prot buffs). Native magic weapons and cold/fire res too. MR is the glaring weak spot, but the only truly devastating spells that hit that are limited to B, extremely high S, and A/D.

>>171603808
Oh, and also Nazca, Sceleria, Pelagia (map dependent), Xibalba on cave-heavy maps, and Caelum if you can abuse their mobility properly

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>>171597336
No idea why the fuck I didn't receive turn 14 :/
Guess I'll never find out if Xibalba attacked cap or not

>>171603808
I disagree with MA Vanheim (but maybe that's because they simply feel weaker than either EA or LA Midgard).

I'd also add Nazca to that list, and not just .72 Nazca either (which contends with EA Bats for the level of bullshit). With maybe a side note of Xibalba, but only if they have abundant caves to play with.

>>171604024
with Alt 9, I consider the relative strength of recruitables to have significantly lower importance since you're killing stuff with pillars of fire and storm demons anyways. It's worth noting, though, that deep one spearmen have dramatically lower att/def stats (though with Darkness up, that disadvantage goes away). Without Darkness, I know that they lose to similarly buffed steel maidens for the same cost just based on the stat disparity.

>>171604209
Vanheim's competitive just because they can sail around einheres. I guess that's a map dependent thing that'd put them rather than an assured advantage, but when it does come up it's incredibly good

>>171604201
I did not.

>>171604380
Ah, and I thought you were gonna mention their near unmatched ability to make rare boosters (air hat, staff of elements, robe of magic/bloodstone with some empowerment in blood).

>>171604584
That's nice and all, but I've found that access to 40 gem items rarely make a difference. It's neat for getting you that one spell you need lategame, but you need to already be in a dominant midgame position for that to matter. Having national FW and RoS access is more important, as is recruitable out of cap thugs, so its magic also contributes to its being a pretty decent nation, but I wasn't trying to make an extensive analysis on Vanheim's ups and downs.

>>171598757
Tien has low, shitty paths, but a very wide selection of paths, which means they'll have a high gem income.

>>171600828
>this shit opinion
Fuck you. Having a good 25g recruitable doesn't make a top-tier nation. Forest rainbows, sure. Show me how you win a battle against say, Fog Warriors and Mass Flight, or Armies of Foo, or Earthquakes, or even just massed crossbows, with low magic rainbows. As for Thunderstriking, only 8% of your sages can cast Storm, and 25% of your StR cap-only Vanabogs. Only 50% of sages will be able to thunderstrike (twice, because they're just A2s) even once Storm is cast. All for the low, low cost of 165 gold. Storm demons summoning is much more easily done by e.g. Vanheim, although I agree it's still worth it.

Geomancers are good, granted. But in the midgame you have a lot of smaller battles where GfH can't hit shit and I would put my money on a similar costed Ulmish army, or other cheap humans with more capable mages.

Ashdod, can duel, sure. That doesn't make a strong nation.Their mages are extremely inefficient and you get absolutely no crosspaths, so your S mages are all communioned together without real battlemagic to cast, and your E2s and F2s are doing what E2s and F2s do, just more expensively. To do basically anything else is cap-only StR.

And Abysia, yeah, they can do stuff. Don't really want to spend much time on this cause it's pretty obvious to me that cap-only SB doesn't save you from being only Fire everywhere else.

Tl;dr Git gud

How do I EA Bloodmonkeys? Do I throw rocks and sacrifice monkey virgins and hope for the best?

>>171606293
Recruit as many indy priests as you can so they can reanimate longdead for chaff rather than your shitty monkeys. Use demons for actually fucking shit up.

>>171544678
Idk what Lukas Did to make Arco AI, but I think we can declare VH the winner at this point.

What is a good pretender for Nazca?

I tried an Immortal Coya with D9 4E 4N but that didnt realy look/work good

>>171606950
and you chainstaled you fag

>>171606950
MA Nazca*

>>171607136
Chainstaled? What are you on about.

>>171606950
big bless, big scales, many supaya

>>171605621
I honestly don't get how you undervalue rus, unless you've never seen it played in the mid to late game. 25g recruitables that absolutely murder stuff at the same price that's sent against them is prity gud.

GfH isn't the only thing that geomancers can do, it's just a very frequently strong spell that, yes, scales well into big fights. E/S communions also means cascades if that's what you feel like, or elementals or maws or destruction etc. Ulm, perhaps the nation with the most cost effective battlemagic in the game, is probably the only nation that can match them when comparing middling stacks, and in larger engagements TC still comes out ahead (I've actually played this matchup). Ulm's real advantage is battlefield clear, and TC's having difficulty with that is certainly a reason to put them below the highest tier, but not a reason to think of them as actually bad.

Being strong at dueling isn't the sole reason Ashdod's a good nation. It's worth mentioning because that same strength makes them an indomitable early game nation. They still grow in strength as the game goes on, and their summonable thugs and SCs in S and D still use their bless.

None of those nations are perfect, but none of them are bottom tier with shinu, man, oceania, machaka, atlantis, etc.

>yfw you discover alchemy is a thing

>>171583038
I wish minotaurs were gud, they'd be vastly better if they didn't trample.

>>171607736
E/S is insanely good for Cascades.

small communion for LotNS
Summon EP w/ 1 gem
CASCADES

or if you're swimming in pearls instead, 2 gem a PotS (after the LotNS obviously) and then throw down an EP

I'm sorry Bats.
the peer pressure was REAL

>>171565148
>MA Ulm is a nation designed to use doomstacks
Doomstacks don't require 1000 units. 1000 units aren't going to do much that 300 won't, except be more vulnerable to a battlefield clear. If you're fielding 1000 units to engage the enemy's doomstack, just use a battlefield clear - which ulm has great access to - instead.
>>171565148
>50-60 troops raiding stacks
You don't have a good grip of the game. MA Ulm side parties are like 10-20 flails and a smith, tops. This can't be easily countered without a larger investment - in terms of gold its only slightly more than a vanjarl, who will be vulnerable to buffed flails.

Bloodletting is less effective v. 20 troops than it is v. 1000, and shadowblast is worse, given how easy it is to just holdX2 in rear while the troops get buffed up. (possibly with a bait, who will eat a shadowblast or arrows).

>>171608910
Don't be sorry. Be fast and merciless.

>>171609218

10-20 Ulmites get one shot/routed by a single shadow blast casting mage.

>>171610182
>my enemies are morons who would never start in rear or leave a single unit in front to bait evocations
Ok.

>>171610182
you do know there's a system in place to prevent mages from using gems below certain thresholds right?

Ok. I'm tired of being the linear human that gets butfucked by ghosts, vampires, centaurs, giants, firepeople, cold people, sneks, birds, skelingtons and now the fucking elfs. Next game I'm playing lanka and reking shit with quadratic magic

>>171611984
You're a fucking scrub and the problem is with your strategic ability rather than the nation which you are playing.

Search your feelings, you know this to be true.

>>171608910
Your nation has made no claims of peace or friendship. There is no betrayal here, and nothing to apologize for.

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>>171612209
I HAVE NO MORE FEELINGS
I am a scrubI only have 120h (about 100 mp) and 0 wins I only played 6 games. Seeing most have 8 or 10 people probability tells me in the next two or three I should have a another defeat because I am a scrub

>Watch Sy's LP
Yo Sy you can quit battle replays by pressing q.
Other secret short cuts include pressing c and v on the map screen to view battle reports and replays, respectively.

>>171614245
But then Sy's videos will be shorter

>>171615171
That's a good thing

>>171485269
I want to try getting on this game again, but it is just so daam confusing!

I can expand fine, but I simply lack the knowledge on how to properly script mages, which proves fatal on every game I played.

Could I get some advice on general scripting of mages and strategical use of them? Any examples would be nice!

>>171612419
Remember anon - Dominions IV is not about winning!

It is about doing fun things with the wonderful, creative people from thriving community! You should like fun things. Fun things are better than boring things at all.

>>171616604
t. Malakal

>>171616604
t. Xibalba

>>171610741
>a single unit in front to bait evocations

Baka anon!
Evo spells by default targets squares with most HP/square. One unit won't do shit.

>>171617092
well, in this particular situation, what you do is put your hitter mans in the corner with your buffer man (out of range of shadowblast) and then a get hit man in range of shadowblast so that the bad man burns his gem. the get hit man isn't strictly necessary, but does help fatigue out the bad man instead of having him cast Horde of Skelemans.

>>171617092
It ignores squares outside of range.

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>>171620301

The Rising King was once a mortal being possessing a weak black flame, born of the 777 universes. Through dark science, he breached the veil between the planes and entered the Red City. He sought to meet the Pantokrator. Instead, he inherited creation itself.

The Rising King waged war upon the rotting forces of creation and bent them to his will. In doing so, he became the Conquering King. He invited wielders of the flame into the Red City, transforming the rotting corpse into a hub for kings and philosophers. But it was not to last. Age and envy consumed the mortals, and the Conquering King saw his realm torn asunder and his rule challenged.

He now gathers forces and knowledge, decided to reinstall order in Throne once again.

>>171617768
If they're out of range, you don't need a bait to draw fire away from them

>>171622080
>>171617447
It drains the gems/fatigues from the D mage so that he doesn't do something more useful

>>171623932
Picking my main man the Monolith. His teleportation cross ups are insane.

Anyone have the deployment map?

Hey guys what are some differences between MA and EA? I've only played EA and now I'm forced to play a MA disciples game without any experience in both.

>>171624975
Who are you thinking of playing? Some nations change a bunch and some hardly change at all.
Generally though mages a a bit less powerful and magic sites are slightly less common but your troops have better gear.

Oh and Ermor and Asphodel can turn into huge freespawing, popkilling nightmares if you let them get out of control.

>>171626028
No idea yet. How about Vanheim for example and Caelum?

>>171626320
I cant really help you out there since I play neither of those. I dont think Caelum changes a huge amount but I think Vanheim might turn into Vanarus who are not as powerful. I think some anons broke down what Vanarus had earlier in the thread.

>>171624975
you could just message the people on your team, and youre not being forced to play you fucking chose to

>>171615849

It would be easier if you asked for help with a specific nation. Mages are almost everything in this game.

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>>171616604
>mfw almost all the games i'm in are mod games or meme games

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>>171628870
>tfw still waiting for a mod/meme game to start but no one wants to gets elfed constantly all the time forever

>>171628053
>It would be easier if you asked for help with a specific nation. Mages are almost everything in this game.
Pick a nation that is easy for begginers and the pretender of your choice, any will do as long as you can use it to give me an idea on how to do this.

>>171629515
ive been thinking of starting a game with a ton of mod nations and seeing how they all interact. maybe add in a few other mods too just for the funsie. stuff like the steampunk nation, the ichtyid one, maybe some of the warhammer ones and goblin ones and such.

>>171630171
pick abyssia, research fireballs then blood magic. if you notice the enemy isnt countering your fireballs because theyre retarded go back into evocation and get even more ridiculous fire spells till they do, and then go back into blood with your probably blossoming blood economy and use that forever

>>171630171
Its not really that different from EA to be honest, have a look at the nations and see which ones you like and all that. I would give advice but I'm not great at the game.

>>171575068

With both spells being cast by an N2 mage

12 nature gems gets you 72 wolves, which are 9 strength, leaving you with .81 siege strength each, or 58.32 total.

12 nature gems gets you 10 leogryphs with 16 strength, with 2.56 siege strength each, or 25.6 total.

A N10 casting pack of wolves gives you 28 wolves per cast, and for 12 nature gems (and six turns) you get 136.01 siege strength.

A N10 casting Summon Leogryphs gets you 28 Leogryphs per cast, and for 12 nature gems (and only one turn) you get 71.68.

So per gem, no, wolves are more efficient. Per actual unit and/or mage turns used, leogryphs are more efficient.

Also consider: N1 mages can spam "Pack of Wolves," aren't super useful for other things outside of combat, are certainly one of the most common indy mages, and N2 can be at least marginally useful crafting maces/etc.

Also note that you'll need far more supply to make sure the wolves don't starve, Leogryphs outclass them in combat in pretty much every way (ignoring that neither are stellar in any case), and cost far less mage turns to churn out.

What are some ways to deal with glamour units? Early and mid game strategies.

>>171631660
archers, crossbows, level 3 fire eles, earth meld

>>171575224

Kohen, Seraphine, Black Acolyte, Void Cultist, Crystal Priestess, Cultist, Skopets, Hoburg Priest, Garnet Priestess, Onyx Priestess, Kannushi, Seren, Judge, Soothsayer, Goetic Captain, Iassacharite Sage are all the ones I can find. Note that most require at least a temple or a fort, and that most of their chances of having a magic path are rather rare. Anything with a magic path of "?:0" should be recruitable outside a lab. Soothsayers are the prototypical example because .9 chance at Astral rounds down to zero in game, letting them be recruitable without a lab, even though most of them will have a magic path.

Special shoutout to LA R'yleh which freespawns S1 every once in a while.

Also note that Man's Monk's only need a temple to recruit, but can research.

>>171624248
>picking S-tier cheap char with armor moves
kys

Goodbye sweet EA_newbaria.

>>171562650
>Yes, I am sure this is a great strategy and will work for you.
Ulm's mages are armored and cheap. Worst case you lose some to thunder strike direct hits, which is easily replaceable.

>And pray that the enemy doesn't magic duel your caster you mean?
Empower to S2 and forge a S booster for another guy to use. Still vulnerable to magic duel (if you're worried about it use the E3 national spell instead), but at least you don't lose any invested gems if he's killed.

You can also pots -> antimagic for 3 gems total, but that's round 2 AM which isn't as good as round 1 AM

>>171638459
or even round 3, actually, because enc unless you're fighting in magic dom

Yeah, I guess looking at it like that, it's not all that good. Probably better to get a booster somehow.

>>171638459
Round 3 or possibly worse unless you're in enemy dominion, PotS will put a smith to 105 fatigue in neutral magic and 135 in full drain.

>>171638559
yeah, I caught that right after I posted.

>>171626320
>How about Vanheim for example and Caelum
Which age?

>>171638649
The context of the conversation was a guy asking for advice for MA. I assume he's still talking about MA.

>>171638903
Hmmm, I think I got that post confused with another comment chain. Might as well answer his question though.

MA Caelum gets recruitable A3 with a chance at A4, but ends up with much worse death access as they lose harab seraphs. On the bright side, they get a little bit of native astral from the A3 mages, and retain minor death access through those same mages.

MA Vanheim loses vanhere, but gets a non-elf, non-sacred version called einhere available everywhere.

That's about the extent of the differences. Both are very similar to their EA counterparts.

MA also tends to have a bit more heavy armor on indies, much more xbow provinces, and higher resources+gold per province compared to EA.

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8/12 full, come here to get elfed

>>171607346
>>171606950
You played that D9E4 build in DSDS2 and you staled and admin had to AI you.

I know it was you because I was going to sub you but your retarded build make me prefer not to do it.

>>171641892
Woops elves stole the link http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=ElfingAround

>>171606950
F9B9.

So no interest in subbing for Ragha?
I don't want to set him AI since he's too big and it would fuck up gamebalance.

>>171606950
I did well with an awake W9 Wyrm. You get an awake amphibious expander, okay scales, your sacreds love a W bless and Nazca doesn't get native W so your pretender can fill a hole later on.

With an awake expander and an early Mallqui churning out Hatun Runa you can have really nice expansion, along with the regular bird tactic of skipping difficult provinces and taking the choicest ones before other nations get to them.

>>171641892
Please remove my pretender, I don't want to play anymore.

>>171642032
Never played Multiplayer with Nazca, but okay.

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>>171621756

I need it.

v

>>171649332
F

>>171647124
Weird, then this guy had exactly the same build you are theorycrafting.

I like W9B9 bless as Nazca, but F9B9 will probably work well. I want to try F9W9 too, but I think I'm going to miss the B9 bless if I do.

Supaya spam, supaya raiding parties, inverse communions, mummies...

Anything you need particular advice with? I'm feeling to lazy to make a long general explanation on how to play them, unless you are asking for exactly that.

>>171649941
I don't realy know how to get a good Supaya spam setup, I usualy run out of death gems and I have to rely on those dudes that can only make 2 per turn.

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>>171645393
I was really curious on this slave thing for expansion, since I have played Nazca in some games but I have never tried that.

But I have just tested it and it turned out awful. You probably mix them with other units to 'solve' the morale problem, but I would say Aucaac runa spearmen are a lot better for expansion, maybe mixed with some condor warriors if you have an okay bless like W9.


Like, come on, Hatun runa die to millitia.

>>171650208
Oh, that one is easy.
>First turn recruit Mallqui (the one without paths, the commander one).
>Turn 2 you turn it into a prophet.
>Turn 3 Call supayas with him.

This way you will have 10 supayas on turn 8, which tends to be enough to capture most indie provinces.


Also, on turn 2 you have to recruit a Inca, and after it's out you have to fly it into indies and lose it, so it revives as a mummy able to Call supayas.
Early on, every cap turn should be used in Incas, but deciding when to keep one and not kill it is important, aso you will want to use some with your armies to bless easily your stuff.

If you are swimming in gold, Royal mallqui is a really good mage that can get you supayas, I tend to grab a lot of them in my games, as they have the SAME upkeep cost as a suicided Inca, but have more paths and are more useful in general, so they are basically the same while reanimating but later on A2F2 royal mallquis arent really good, while the rainbow ones can do pretty much anything you wanted.

If you get a Inca on turn 2, it's out on turn 4 and you move it away and recruit a new one. On turn 5 you have a False-Mallqui and tell it to Call supayas.
So right now you have 4 supayas from the prophet and two mummies calling supayas.

Turn 6 you have your second Inca out and you tell him to kill himself, while getting a Hurin priest. 8 supayas.
Turn 7 you have three mummies reanimating and 12 supayas. Give them to your Hurin priest and send them to capture any indie province (they will capture most of the indies, but dont send them against 100 barbarians or some shit.
And you get a third Inca.

Turn 8 you have 6 supayas and three guys reanimating.

Turn 9 you have your third Inca and 12 Supayas, and you suicide the Inca and recruit a Hurin priest again.

>>171651253

Turn 10 you have 18 supayas and a hurin priest to lead them, plus four mummies reanimating.
This time your supaya squad can destroy literally any indie without exceptions. Attack rear or archers on turn one while blessed and you have it done. Also get a Inca.

On turn 11 you have 8 supayas already in your cap, and on turn 13 you will already have 10 Supayas per turn, which is a good amount, as 20-30 of them can fight other nations fine (16 defense in a ethereal guy, 20 defense if you are running W9).

Should I talk further about how to expand while doing this? Also Inca suiciding is a bit tricky, I could talk about that if you need me to.

>>171651253
>Nazcas game plan is literally kys my man

>>171651337
Forgot to add that the Conjuration spell ot summon supayas isn't really good.
I have only used it in a game where I got Ermor's cap and that let me spam supayas even harder, as I had no use for that many death gems.

Rush construction 4 for Huaca headdress, maybe skip some supaya-reanimating turns if you dont need that many or want to get to const 4 asap, but remember that you need Supayas to stay relevant early on, as they will be able to fight most of the nations (specially before they tech for Antimagic).

Note: when you equip Huaca headdress your mummies think they can reanimate 4 supayas per turn, but this is a tooltip bug. It was nerfed and you only get +1 with the item, for a total of 3 Supayas per mummy.

I like B9W9 bless for them, but i can see F9B9 working, and as I said W9F9 sounds fun as fuck but the blood vengeance punishes enemy mages for trying to kill the supayas surrounding them, which is nice.

You want at least ench 1 asap because Hurin priests LOVE casting flying shards and dying to friendly fire because of BV, and animate skeleton gives them something else to do while waiting for the supayas to win the fight.

Really, I must capitalize on this. I have lost a lot of minor battles that I was going to win because my fag guy decided he wanted to help and literally killed himself instead.
For Incas not to suicide themselves in big battles you are going to need Phantasmal warrior, but Incas killing themselves casting fire flies isn't that common (but it happens sometimes).

>>171651337
Tell me more about Inca suiciding.

>>171651779
I like expanding using Aucac runa spearmen + condors warriors mixed in a squad, as condor warriors have higher morale specially after being blessed and that helps aucacs not routing before the job is done.

BUT condor warriors cost twice what Aucacs cost and two Aucacs is strictly better than a condor warrior.
However a condor warrior is probably worth 1'5 Aucacs AND only costs 8 resources (aucacs cost 7). So Early on you are going to be resource capped and you will want to get condors warriors, but 20 of them could die to indies easily, as they are easy to kill.

That's why I mix them, so you have more attacks to rout indies before they kill your guys (typical bird strategy). Condors warriors to burn gold, Aucacs to burn resources.

Image related it's what I'm talking about.


About Inca suiciding, there is three ways to do it:
-First one: indies, when you dont need a blesser. you just put the inca in the rear and tell him to bless, holy avenger, attack archers/rear.
It's going to die in 99% of the cases, but I have had some killed the commander or archers and making the enemies rout, and even if they dont do it, if they kill 5-10 indies and die is better than not killing any.

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>>171652446
Forgot the image.


-Second one: Indies when you need a bless.
As I said, I'm using condor warriors for expansion but (even if i didnt talk about this) I tend to lead them with indie commanders if possible. Sometimes I let a Inca live forever so it can lead a flying army, but other times I do this kamikaze-blesser thing, where I lead my sacreds+birds with a indie commander or a Kuraka (kurakas are 25% cheaper than regular indie commanders and you can get them in any mountain province), then tell the army to attack a province and also tell the Inca to move into that province.
The regular commander just stays back, the flying troops Hold-attack rear, and the Inca does: Divine blessing, attack closest.

This way it usually dies before flying troops move in, so you get to suicide the commander while not losing the fight. You can even bring a Inca for 1 or 2 battles and then doing this to kill him.

-Third one: The against-players one.
After expansion is done you wont have any indies to get your Incas killed, so what you have to do is flying them into a enemy province surrounded by enemy provinces and tell the Inca to retreat on turn one. Sicne you arent killing any enemy units the other player has no reason to get mad and you get your Mallqui since the Inca dies while retreating, as there arent any ally provinces to retreat to.


I'm not an expert so there might be something wrong, but I hope this was useful to someone.

>>171652541
Thanks for the info mate.

>>171652786
No problem!

In that image I was using a Inca commander because that province was far from my cap and wanted to reach it fast. Sun guards are there because I got a shade province in my capring and got sun guards to fight the shades (it didn't go very well, I encourage not to do that).

I like bless Nazca and I have managed to get to an okay expansion level via practice, but I can see an awake expander helping, and that W9 wyrm idea sounds like a good one. Actually W9E4 awake wyrm costs about the same amount of design points than my B9W9 Imprisoned fountain build, which is fun.


But slaves are kinda bad killing things and not dying, I cant really think of something to make them good at expansion.
>>171650636
Here they had +1 squad morale, sermon of courage and were fighting in friendly dominion and they couldnt even kill those militias.

>>171650636
I was using mixed expansion parties of blessed sacreds and slaves. Against weaker enemies have everything on Hold & Attack Rear, if the enemy has archers hold > attack archers usually does the trick.

W9 sacreds are really hard to hit and reduce the incoming attacks on the slaves to give them time to take things out. Plus sometimes you get lucky and actually hit the enemy commanders, which is basically a free province.

>>171608378
They can keep trample, they must just cost like 10 gold less.

>>171631083
leogryphs fly tho

>>171636005
Who won?

>>171654557
Nope.

>>171655087
Oh, right

Hey guys how do I EA fomoria? I like the giant dudes with one eye, but I'm pretty stupid and overwhelmed by all the options this game has. What are like their strengths and weaknesses? Early, mid and late game strategies? And What vulnerabilities they have. What kind of nations should they fear and what kind of nations should they prey upon and why? Thanks guys.

>>171657070
Thunder Striking with Druids is pretty good.

>>171657070
Thugging with druids is pretty good

>>171657070
Also TCs Wushu motherfuckers are meat blenders and will eat your giants, and everyone else's giants, for lunch.

>>171657289
What are some counters to that so I can prepare?

>>171658351
more thunderstrikes

>>171658351
Some HP sponges in front of the rest of your guys to eat hits I guess?