/rlg/ - Roguelike General

first for chei

In before assmad because of Dredmor.
Reminder that Dredmor is as much of a roguelike as powder and so is kosher.

3rd for kiku

>>164410430
dredmor's allowed, just a lot of people don't like the gameplay or ui (mouse first yuck)
it's definitely a roguelike though

>>164410260
>Hey you know that thing I should never do
>let's do it anyway
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>164410430
nobody here is assmad about dredmor's roguelikeness

i think i've seen more "i'm going to play dredmor and there's nothing you can do about it!~" shitposts than i've seen people mad about it

the truth is, it IS a roguelike, it's just one that isn't very fun because it's very slow to play and has painful inventory management

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uol6HRMryoo

Why did no one tell me great hell wyrms get innate reflection?

I feel guilty about only having questions about DCSS because it seems to saturate this general.

But anyways. I'm playing a Gargoyle EE, I should pay no heed to that -2 aptitude in dodging and pump points in it anyway, right?

>>164410735
>it's very slow to play
One thing I loved about Demon: Ferret obviously thought about what happens if 5 creatures act all at once.
Dredmor just kinda gives up at solving that

>>164410948
yes anon, every character in crawl wants to train dodging
you might not take it as high as a character with a better apt, but you should still have SOME
probably dont do that super early in the game though; on the first few dlvls you're better off focusing on all-out offense

>>164411004
demon is kind of shitty about that too actually
like some monster casts that one holy spell that damages all enemies in an area and it plays the white-run-falling-on-them-from-the-sky animation in series, one-at-a-time for each demon it hits. there's no way to skip this shit except by entering a command and skipping the entire turn's animations

>>164410948
Yes, aptitudes tend to decide what you character does and doesn't do, but core ones like dodging/fighting/armour don't since you'll want at least some every singe game, because they're really,really good.

>>164411228
Skipping is good enough. The only thing that really matters is the end state.
Though Demon isn't very good at displaying the end state.

>>164411423
i didn't play the game too much but i remember it being a huge pain in the ass to actually see which status effects a demon had

rather than being in a list they would all flash one-at-a-time in the corner of its character sheet or something

>>164411683
Yeah, that's most of the issue.
That's not all, though. Effects aren't properly timed in the UI. There is no effect duration displayed (not even some "effect power" measure).

Even something as bad as Brogue's effect display would be better. Now, Brogue is quite bad at it too, but at least it tries.

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>>164410260
Did the dude die of laughter? Was he having too much giggle at a diggle?

>>164412428
He got all the dank memes at once

>>164412428
>he doesn't giggle at diggles
I bet you don't even cummy in tummies

>>164410879
That is your based armor realm.

why won't my minireactor (powered on, filled with fuel) charge the battery in my car

>>164413490
as if armor wasn't stacked enough already!

>no artifact blade of chaos with chaos brand and (wild)

>>164413993
It was changed to work as the backup.
This makes it useless for charging other vehicles, but makes it more useful when working with alternators and solars.

>>164414701
that makes no sense

it's a nuclear reactor, it should fucking power the vehicle always, not just on backup

is replacing all my windows in my car with boards and cameras a bad idea

>>164415235
Realism is the reason for everything that is wrong with DDA.

The only problem here is that you can't use it to charge batteries even when you want to do that.
For one vehicle usage, it's much better that you don't need to manually turn the reactor on/off to conserve plutonium while solars are running.

>>164415721
Cameras have less range and you need to sit on the control panel for it to work.

>>164415721
Would you do it in real life?

>>164415935
Does less range mean it explores less of the overworld map too

>>164416091
Not sure. There are two mechanics for overmap exploration: one checks actually seen tiles, other is pure range based.
The range based ones will not be affected, but the one that sees tiles certainly will be.

>>164415721
you can just put curtains over the windows so you can close them when you're not driving

when you ARE in motion you don't care as much about zombies noticing you because you can just run them over

>>164415935
>Realism is the reason for everything that is wrong with DDA.

Are you saying the game being too realistic is a problem? Or that the game isn't realistic enough

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Necro is amazing, I think I've found my new favourite god.

Anyway, should I try and wear heavier armour, since I'm barely blasting stuff anymore with my undead slaves destroying everything.

>>164416376
I want to make a tank and drive up to other tanks / military turrets and hack them without them seeing me

>>164416583
well you can still do windows with curtains + cameras so in non-hacky situations you can get proper vision

>>164416425
The realism being ever considered more important than gameplay.

This is the direct reason for all the bloat and an indirect reason for lack of balance, "oops you slipped you're dead now" combat, multiple kinds of UI shittiness and tedium.

And ironically, also for lack of realism, when "realistic" bullet damage means NPCs shooting at you would be instadeath, yet NPCs have all the reasons to shoot you before asking you to get angry.

Seriously, if you ever think
>this is retarded. what the fuck were they thinking?
the reason is most likely realism.
Conversely, when you actually have fun, the reason is most likely someone deciding to make things less realistic and just going sci-fi and action movie.

>>164417563
The 'attempt' at realism is the best thing about cataclysm. Why don't you play any of the million other roguelikes if you just want pure gameplay above all else?

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Well that stinks

>>164418996
It's not that hot. The enchantment alters each turn, so it can plummet to negatives.

Also, it is chaos-branded - which can backfire really badly.

>>164418596
Realism:
>vitamins
>morale penalty for wetness
>morale penalty for filthy clothing
>item damage
>grab attacks fucking you over
>good armor making you immune to most shit

Anti-realism:
>being able to craft vehicles as efficient as factory ones
>being able to repair vehicles without raping their efficiency
>CBMs existing
>being able to install CBMs and not just start with them
>infections being curable without risk of instadeath
>regeneration not taking months
>crafting clothing not taking hours per attempt
>radiation not being delayed instadeath with no warning

>>164399421

Spells that you can use and are actually useful for the entire duration of the game anywhere you go are better than something that is only useful for a 3 rune.

Any good roguelikes with combat like Dwarf fortress adventure mode? I fucking love chopping limbs off in that game and stabbing eyes out. So far most RL just have normal HP style combat.

>>164425654
IVAN has critters and player losing limbs left and right.

This is a bad thing, right?

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This baby is on sale for like 2000 gold but Zin is jewing all my gold away.

How do I make fast gold?

>>164426292
There's no real way to get a ton of gold, unless you're with Gozag and by the time you'll have enough money to blow on that, you'll have a billion dragon armours laying around the dungeon anyway.

>>164425569
>playing more than 3 runes
its like you want to somehow have even LESS fun in dcss

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>>164426257

>>164426292
always acquire gold

Cleared the lair, the upper dungeon and the orcish mines.
Where to now, depths?

>>164426781
nah the *tele will help reduce your turncount and get you a higher score

>>164426918
Nevermind just splatted at the depths, tried running for what I'm guessing was a wizard lab and got chased by 3 troll shamans and an ice dragon.

>>164426918
lair branches
easiest from hardest:
swamp
spider
snake
shoals

then vaults 1-4
then all of depths

>>164427210
I wish I hadn't gotten greedy about that lab.
I didn't think I'd be so unprepared, apparently two of those trolls were actually earth mages and before I stopped moving back to the entrance I noticed i got hit by 3 LRC in a row.
I was 2 tiles away from escaping, I'm upset now.

>>164426737

It's not fun for you because you're bad.

>>164427602
At least you know the branch order for next time, depths enemies are far,far stronger than the stuff in the lair branches.

>>164428098
Hold on, enemy LCS can be cast directly on top of the player character if they are a gargoyle, correct?

>>164428804
LCS is Lehudibs crystal spear which anyone can get hit by, I assume you meant LRD, so the answer is yes, you can get directly hit by LRD if you are a gargoyle.

>>164429110
Shucks, should have expected that. I was liking that guy, tons of AC for a spellcaster.

How can I choose which monster to reach attack with polearms online?

>>164430012
eVoke it

>>164430442

Thanks. Would you like a kissu or a peench? :)

>>164431253
have slex with me instead :)

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wtf that's like 90 damage!

>>164431253
>>164431350
>>>/trash/
RP is allowed there, not /rlg/.

>>164431407
>8 AC
>taking on a 5+ headed Hydra up close

You were asking for it.

>>164431407
rekt

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>>164431407

>using chaos weapons at all

is cogmind any good yet?

>>164433901
The only people I have seen saying good things about it are people whose opinions I wholly disregard as worthless.

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This doesn't seem safe at all.

Actually, it's probably good the death knights are there, as otherwise I'd try to fight it.

>>164434748
i love when rooms spawn with monster formations

Shall I just quit roguelikes?
Why do people say this genre is fucking easy? It's so goddamn difficult. I can't even beat DCSS again, and apparently that's the easiest one.
Seriously, it's too heartbreaking to put multiple hours into a character just to die.
I'm just not cut out for this shit.

>>164437220
The only people who think roguelikes are easy are people who spend too much time playing them.
Like the people here, for example.

>>164437220
>Why do people say this genre is fucking easy? It's so goddamn difficult. I can't even beat DCSS again, and apparently that's the easiest one.

DCSS is easy as shit though.
Play overpowered combo like Minotaur Berserker, or worship better gods like Trog, Okawaru or Gozag.

>Seriously, it's too heartbreaking to put multiple hours into a character just to die.
That's the appeal of roguelike.
Just like in real life, you can't reload your save when you're doing something wrong.

Anyway, play online so we can watch or give advice to you.

>dying as MiBe
>2017
You're kidding right ?

>>164437220
it's easy in that with perfect, cautious, thoughtful, non-hoarding play you usually win, but it's really damn hard to have the patience and self-control to avoid making a move before considering the situation fully, or to avoid playing on when you know you should go to bed. And the moment you think "I'm doing well" you lose the caution and often immediately go and do something stupid.

It took me like 10 years before I beat vanilla Angband for the first time, but then the second win came easliy. Part of it is game knowledge, part of it is getting into an appropriately-calibrated groove, etc.

There really are "eureka!" moments that come after you win and things start falling into place. Part of it is just comfort with game progression, part of it is realizing to value absolutely no item so highly as the survival of the character (because you end [win or lose] most roguelikes with an abundance of shit you were so sure you'd use someday)

When you feel that irritable grumpy sensation when playing a character of "I deserve to get back to where my last guy was before dying, when I was just getting to the good part" or realizing you'll actually go bonkers after a fatal misstep, it's time to take a step back and do something else, maybe even meditate or go to bed.

Also people overstate how easy shit is because they know it's objectively easy, even when in their own practical games they often ignore the above and do stupid shit when they *know* better than to do that.

>>164437220
>>164437845
and to add: taking a 1% risk a lot of times ultimately culminates in dying almost 100% of the time, even if each individual dice roll is highly in your favor. You get away unpunished for a lot of shit, which leads to dangerous habits. Then the hydra does 90 damage in a turn or whatever and the harsh lesson comes down: those other times you went unpunished because you were lucky.

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Holy shit my weapon literally disappeared in the Abyss when I was teleported once. Goddamnit IJC

I spawned inside a Abyss Rune vault in Abyss:3, surrounded by monsters. I managed to escape with cBlink, but I got teleported away (whole map reset) before I could get the rune. Do I need to leave the Abyss and come back again before I can find another rune?

>>164437718
I guess you're right. I think I've been listening to too many retards on /v/.

>>164437768
I dislike playing cookie cutter overpowered combos like that, even if it leads to frustration due to the added difficulty.
The way I see it is, I'd rather struggle through an interesting playthrough using a combo I enjoy even if it is suboptimal rather than breezing my way through the game and tabbing to victory as a minotaur berserker.

>>164437845
>it's easy in that with perfect, cautious, thoughtful, non-hoarding play you usually win, but it's really damn hard to have the patience and self-control to avoid making a move before considering the situation fully, or to avoid playing on when you know you should go to bed. And the moment you think "I'm doing well" you lose the caution and often immediately go and do something stupid.

Gonna be honest, every single thing you said there rings so true for me. When I'm playing slow a methodical, everything usually goes fine. As soon as I start to get impatient and overconfident, I get punished for it.
I'm also guilty of playing when tired, when I know I should just put it down and pick it up the next day, but I keep saying to myself "I'll just make it to 'x' then I'll stop...", and a good 75% of the time this leads to my death.

99% of the time, part of you is internally screaming the correct play, and another part of you, generally the part directly attached to your real or metaphorical testicles, says "yeah nah fuck you imma do this instead"

>>164438753
Honestly, one of the best ways to play is to just unbind tab.

>>164437220
>Seriously, it's too heartbreaking to put multiple hours into a character just to die.

That's half the fun, though. You fuck up, you learn a little, you try again but under different circumstances.

It's like life, but it's most similar to a relationship. You try to make things work and to work with what's in front of you, rather than constantly dreaming of an older/more ideal relationship.

>>164438753
when you think of it from a neurochemical reward perspective it makes a lot of sense
taking (small, cumulative) risks by yoloing through monsters, gaining levels and loot, releases dopamine and the like in the brain to make you feel rewarded, even though it's wrong play. But taking caution and playing to the worst case scenario has no such attendant reward, at least until the (inevitably underwhelming) win itself. So you have this perverse incentive structure where the player is encouraged to do (even if just marginally) stupid shit, with the deserved punishment only rarely actually manifesting, and with the reward of an actual win being extremely delayed. On top of that, often a bad choice won't actually punish you until much later (e.g. "if only I had one more scroll of blink left"). Thus both the rewards for correct play and punishments for bad play are divorced from the things that brought them about, if they're invoked at all.

>>164438648
No, it generates.

Is the bezotted update already on trunk?

What's the next bloat race that is going to be purged from DCSS?

In DCSS, should one ever level their weapon skill past the min delay level when there is nothing important to level?

>>164431407
>giant club of chaos
>on a troll

Fault, but I would have used it too

>>164441275
No, it's still in branch "dpegs_dynamic_monsters"

http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/dpegs_dynamic_monsters

>>164441428
Human

>>164441469
There's no such thing as "nothing important to level", unless your Fighting / Dodging / Armor is already at 27, you'll want to branch into magic.

>>164441469
Nah

If you aren't murdering shit quite well at min delay you need a different weapon, not more weapon skill

And if you are ALREADY murdering shit quite well, you can train basically anything else for more benefit than weapon skill will give you.

I only go above mindelay in niche cases of huge weapon apts where it's not a big XP drain, or the 'lol 27 fighting and casting firestorm in GDA train literally whatever senpai' stage of the game

>>164441469
Depends on what level is required for min delay. If it's 20 or higher, you won't get much/anything by training more. But if it's lower than 15, you'll get a little extra damage/accuracy with more training, although you'll be better off switching to a stronger weapon. Pound for pound, min delay is all you need.

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Poor little Oremorj

could afford 5,000 rockets to shoot at players but couldn't afford swimming lessons

>>164442006
i hate magic

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>>164443145

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Hello level 50, haven't seen you in awhile

>>164444501
congratulations! I'm waiting on the good times now myself.
welcome to the final third of the game

If I don't have a numpad is there anyway to rebind the vi-keys for movement? It's set up in the most awful way.

>>164444998

use mouse

>>164441469
not unless you're stabbing with shortblades

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How am I supposed to get this rune?

>>164444998
In Crawl?

See https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/settings/no_vi_command_keys.txt
And
https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/keybind.txt

Basically, copy the "no vi command keys" stuff into your init or crawlrc file, and then rebind whatever you need with similar commands from the keybind file.

there should be an unrand hat + cloak that give cleaving and reaching respectively, to complete the set with the boots of ass and gloves of fence

>>164444998
it's fine if you get used to it
you should keep your hand on the home row as if you are typing, don't try to contort it into the shape of the keys like you would with WASD

>>164445802
>tfw hill orc giant spiked club (vamp) +9 with stabbing, riposte, cleaving, and reaching

>>164445802
Boots and gloves improve stabbing and riposte respectively. There's nothing to improve with cleaving and reaching

>>164445934
errr, I meant ogre
not sure where the heck I got "hill orc giant" from

>>164445627
Very carefully.

>>164443145
He also can't afford confusion resistance, which is always entertaining.

>>164446551
I have basically zero melee capabilities and no means of digging. Is it even worth trying or should I give up and wait for another one?

>>164446682
If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

>>164446681
players get that too
if you play as a cyberdemon you get tonberry-style confusion vulnerability

>>164446682

>no means of digging
>what is OoD

spriggan shitters every tiem

>>164447097
??? OoD doesn't dig anything, what are you talking about?

>>164447134

guess you should OoD your irl MiBrain because it doesn't do anything anyway

>>164447497
Next you'll be saying /disint digs things

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>when you're a powerful servant of Morgoth in the original Angband but get utterly steamrolled by the newer uniques who never got balanced

I sympathize, Lungorthin. Angels are major assholes.

Anyone compiled DDA on linux themselves?

>just clean installed yakkety
>following the compilation instructions on github to the letter
>missing sdl_ttf.h

>libsdl-ttf2.0-dev is already the newest version (2.0.11-3)
What did I mess up?

>>164447674
the angels are in vanilla angband as well though?
although they got reflavored into valar.

>>164447097
It doesn't help much because of that Silent Spectre, I can't get LOS to most of the stuff in the way. I don't think Flayed Ghosts need sound to flay either.

>>164447665
don't worry, if you don't have any sources of dig you can always just use a stone of tremors!

>>164448053

You have spriggan speed, lure the silent spectre out while hasted after wrecking those walls without straying too far from the rune vault. Then read ?fog, break LoS and cBlink several times to the left side of the rune vault, cast OoD to make holes as necessary, grab the rune and evoke /tele. Flayed ghosts are the least of your worries

>>164448541
Thanks, that sounds like good advice.

>>164445627
I remembered this vault. As SpEn of Ash I almost stabbed everything there and finished the rest with wand of acid.
It was easier than I thought.

>>164448626
>>164448678
There was a Wretched Star nearby so I abandoned it.

>>164441428

Halflings because they're too uninteresting.

>>164449236
Halfling are the worst
>hey lets have a race whose only appeal is being a short tabmaster
>But they can't use big items lmao

fuck frodo

>>164449429

They should just remove Slings too, only stupid people use them. Either buff it/add some gimmick so that it can rival Longbows and Triple Crossbows OR just outright remove it if it's too problematic a.k.a lazy to think of a buff.

>>164449849
>projectiles fired from slings have an innate vorpal multiplier against any creature larger than the wielder
>each additional size difference increases multiplier by 1
>hunting slings renamed Goliath Leathers

>>164450092
>Orbs of fire are Tiny

annnd into the trash slings go

Literally no other monster matters desu

>>164450602
Slings now let you fire OoFs. Problem solved.

>>164449112
I found another vault with lava to float over and got the rune out by apporting it. Much easier.

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That ring looks quite appealing...

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>>164451236
wow, no wonder he lost the War of the Ring

>>164447850
>playing with tiles

>>164451412
>playing
Trying to build it, faggot.

>>164451706
Build it without tiles then

>>164451789
I'll build my foot in your ass.

>>164451881
You're so irritable. Try getting rid of animal products in your diet.

Ring is more powerful, but Deathsword is more fun, correct?

>>164452335
deathsword is probably stronger/easier, but both are fairly weak until very late

also i'd say ring is probably more fun

deathsword plays just like any other melee character but with a lot more grindan for loot and worrying about disenchanters

>>164452335
Exactly.

Deathsword
>rule of cool
>Just give me some resistances and I'll wreck this place
>KILL KILL KILL I MUST KILL

Ring
>rule of tedium
>sure hope an aoe spell drops, I'm almost to level 30
>5,000,000 keystrokes necessary to kill a grid bug
>oh my fucking god why are mounts such a pain in the ass
>nohp
>nosp
>half the fun, triple the playtime

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Xom is a pretty cool guy

>>164454115

>tedium

Opinion discarded. I really should make a list of those dumb buzzwords you subhumans resort to using to make your post look like it has any form of intelligence

>>164455006
He is. He is also awfully inconsistent

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First win. Mostly thanks to luck: found strong armour and a shield in a bailey, and an anulet of regeneration soon after. Then I just tanked most of the dungeon, especially after I found a vampiric weapon.

Still nearly died a bunch of times though. Mostly when I thought, "Maybe this extra damage will be better than vampirism". It wasn't. Also fuck orbs of fire and their malmutation.

>>164445627

which game is this?

>>164455293
thats 15 rune gear especially with boots of run

you must have been doing smth really wrong to get close to dying with this equipment

>>164455006
Xom is the only god that's revived me twice in one game. Clearly the greatest of Gods.

>>164455848
It was before I got a lot of that - I had strong stuff at the time, but it was a lot more of a mixed bag in terms of resistences and the like. I won't deny I was playing badly though. Twice I was down to about 10hp and just got lucky.

>>164455006

Just cleared lair, about to enter the orcish mines. I am absolutely loaded with mutations and feel like I should ditch Xom before his autism takes it away. How long does his wrath last? Is it difficult to survive?

Been playing a lot of Caves of Qud lately. Im really enjoying it but im not sure how it stands with other rougelikes as ive only played DCSS mostly and i like that one too. Anyone else playing CoQ?
I also noticed a glitch. If you pour blood onto youself then examine the ground there will be 2x as much bloody salt and you can keep repeating. Pretty useless but i think thats its not supposed to happen

>>164455273
>he
Xom is the only canonically futanari god.

>>164456883
God wrath lasts whole game and just imagine what hes doing now but somewhat worse from time to time
Sometimes he will do a good action under wrath because hes a god of chaos after all, doesnt care much

>>164457072
More like changing sex randomly.
Appearing as trap at one moment, then suddenly changing into a fat black woman.

>>164457156

Xom probably genuinely makes use of that "50 different genders" chart regularly.

>>164457226
>gender: xom's bff
>xom's attention turns to you
>your gender changes to panfluid
>xom is roaring with laughter

>>164457360
>Xom notices you
>you notice that suddenly deeply erotic wall
>..OH NO! IT SAW YOU STARING!
>Xom is mildly amused

>Find a dagger of accompaniment and a defender curved sword on the first floor
>Switch it out for a defender bastard sword a couple floors down
>Find another defender bastard sword
>Can't off-hand bastard swords
>Parry only works on the primary weapon
>No dodging+two weapon parry+riposte+sprinting+charge+momentum+knockback+whirlwind+follow through+zone of control with dual defender bastard swords while singing a woven theme of slaying and sharpness
>tfw you'll never get two 4lb (-1,3d4)[+2] bastard swords to do it with
Ffffuuuck...

>>164455293

grats

>>164410260
i am really drunk and i wanted to say that i love all of you
this is the best general there is
you are all so kind
i love you guys so much

>>164455575
binding of isaac

>>164458063
>Find orcrist on 500'
Shit's getting too heretical for me.

I haven't played C:DDA in a couple months, anything interesting added/changed?

>>164459798
Mugling ruined literally everything in his quest for "realism"

>>164459913
...besides the obvious, i meant

>>164459964
No.

What's the best skill levelling order for an OpTm in the early game?
If possible Be specific (like, UC ti X, then fighting to Y, then switch back to uc until Z etc)

>600'
>Feanorian lamp of brightness
>Great helm of brilliance
>Orcrist's bane light
>Got a lesser jewel to drop for intensity
Just need a vanyar spear, a sceptre of fire, amulet of the blessed realm, cloak of maglor, and boots of the irime/*bow of radiance

>>164459964
>>164459798
At this point, you should be following the DDA git for the latest and greatest in autistic screeching between a bunch of beginner to intermediate programmers over 'game design'.

>>164459798
Kevin came back
Didn't do anything yet, but wants to outdo mugling in needless realism, except without new features.

>>164460329

It doesn't matter. Your problem is most probably you continue to fail to stay alive while getting exp and splat then you delude yourself into thinking that your wrong skill allocation is the reason you died.

>>164460807
Hey, that IS true, you know your shit. Any tips for more careful play?

>>164460521
>'game design'
The meme was that CDDA is not a roguelike, now it is no longer a game?

>>164460919
X, e, o+tab

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How do I git qud?

At the moment I'm just running tanky axe waterwine farmers who get carried by the flaming hands mutation. Any better choices for a newb?

Loving the game though.

>>164460951
I'm pretty much convinced the devs have no interest in making DDA a roguelike again.

>>164461049
Was it ever one?

Kevin explicitly stated he doesn't want DDA to have a win condition.

>>164460520
>Find a +1 blessed realm on 650'
If only I could be so grossly incandescent

>>164460984
Don't fight legendary shit unless you're heavily overleveled and prepared to cheese itwith consumables
Grind weak areas so you're overleveled and oversupplied as you go forward

>>164461118
Kevin isn't the original dev.

Whose name I forget because I've been sitting here watching a compiler for 4 hours.

Cataclysm was supposed to be a zombie apocalypse roguelike where everyone's world file was sync'd with other players and you'd get little chunks where a player died or scrawled a message dropped into your world. There used to be an actual win condition, but it's been so long I can't even remember what it was. There were several 'endings'.

>>164461123

I was cheesing it down with map borders, sprint and flaming hands. Got him down to "badly wounded" until I walked over a fire and he managed to hit me once. Greed ended up killing me.

What are these "weak" areas? Grinding crocs and glowfishes get boring. Where can I find something along the lines of Redrock:4 to grind? I was heading for the copper wire dungeons when I stumbled upon the legendary ape and his minions in some very interesting (at least 10 maps wide) ruins.

When should I head for the sultanate revealed by looking at the statue in Joppa?

>>164461251
Whales Cataclysm.

If these guys keep fucking around, the feature lean and barely functional whales version will have a comeback.

>>164461251
>where everyone's world file was sync'd with other players and you'd get little chunks where a player died or scrawled a message dropped into your world
We all now how that works in reality - mass griefing.

Though the roguelike part would be fun.

No chance for it for as long as Kevin is the leader, though. Unless someone makes a fork.

>>164461251

>Cataclysm was supposed to be a zombie apocalypse roguelike where everyone's world file was sync'd with other players

If Cata becomes like this I would be forced to play it.

>>164461707
No you wouldn't
There was a /rlg/ worldsharing server once, but it was dropped when pyromaniacs burned down every single spawn point on the world, every time the world was reset.

>>164461707
>>164461778
The world sharing thing wasn't the intention.

I have to go to bed, but it was supposed to like what Dark Souls is but without invasions. Your ghost file is saved along with everything in your line of sight gets uploaded to a server, and when someone is generating a world, it pulls some number of ghost files and you can encounter player corpses and whatever killed them and the state of their final tile.

The world sharing thing was different. Whales didn't intend for anyone to literally share worlds.

>>164460984
freezing hands >>> flaming hands

the game actually has a temperature system and lowering enemys' temperature enough can slow them or freeze them solid

at higher levels of the mutation, freezing hands will actually freeze things solid for longer than the cooldown on the ability

>>164461251
>>164461118
Whales wanted a mad max wandering marauder sim. there wasn't a "win" con. Whales being whales he increasingly dropped balls until the final days the modders were doing more than him. He shat the bed and Darklingwolf and Kevin gattai'd into a successor.

>>164461285
The canyons where you go to do the copper shit are utterly infested with snapjaw encampments for you to kill and open chests after you've ground the swamp a lot so you wont die. If you walk to dungeons it helps you get a lot of xp and some loot.Take notes and you'll be able to chart out arbitrary strength so you know where your next grind zone is.

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Maximum Fault

>>164462634
>xl:4
You're fine. Go up the stairs, drop a snek, kill the gobbo in front of it then scoot

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i finally beat meshera alpha

but now any act 3 content is just too strong to handle

>>164462634
Nah youre fine, go upstairs, kite them into a corridor, use appeantce or whatever its called and kill them

>>164458591
Love you too man
Drunk with some CoQ and DCSS
Cheers

>>164462634
if you press anything other than < it's fault, at least

>>164463420
>Not casting mighty roar then eat alive on any stunned foes
Fault

>>164461118
Lack of a win condition is hardly the only problem. Far too much of Cataclysm is so easily cheesable that the only way I've found to have fun is ignore half of it. And even then it quickly gets tedious and irritating.

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>>164462693
>>164463334
>>164463420
As usual /rlg/ was right, but damn if i'm squishy as hell, had to fight them two at a time cuz of no proper corridors.

And now, is plutonium sword worth to train swords to min delay? i've only invested 5 points in transmut, but also 5 points in UC, so i guess it's early enough to focus on Long Blades?

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>Take power for +1 side
>Take an elf with 4 str
>Str pot for 3 str
>Rage for 1 str
>Charge and knockback for 3 str
>20 melee for 1 str
>Glend for 1 str
>Great helm of dor-lomin for 1 str
>Corslet of Gundor for 1 str
>Gauntlets of str (maybe)
Glend: 3d19 damage or take rapid attack for 3d17-18x2
Side boosted great axe of Hador's house/Fury: 4d15-4d19(x2) depending on weight and other factors
Hnnnnng. I doubt I'll ever actually get to do 190 damage/round but still...

>>164463691
Yeah, it's strong and fun.

What race/class/weapon/religion combination was the most fun you had in DCSS?

>>164464971
Bows VpAM of Battlemage Hep
Minotaurs with 26 evo were a hoot too.

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>>164410260
TWENTY

FOUR

HOURS

>>164465113
SpBe and KoAr.

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>play Antibirth
>somehow get to the mines
>the stuff that spawns there

wtf I hate edmund that fat piece of shit sitting around doing nothing now

>>164463047

show us your char

>>164463691
>D4 plutonium sword
fuck you

>>164468434
I once found Wyrmsbane on D:3
Not that I survived until my first dragon

/The Shortsword 'Dagmor' (+2,1d8) [+1] 1 grace
/of shadows 1-3 song
/of feanorians 1 grace
/Sceptre of power 1-3 song
/The Sceptre of Thu (+0,2d4) 2 grace, song of mastery
/The Battle Axe of Hurin (-3,3d5) song of slaying
/The Quarterstaff of Halmir (+0,2d4) [+3] Song of freedom
)The Mithril Shield of Valinor [+1,1d6]
"of blessed realm/grace 1 grace
"Tinfang gelion 2 song
"The Pearl 'Nimphelos' 2 grace
"The Necklace of the Dwarves 1 grace
]Crown of command Song of command
]Crown of Grace 1 grace
]The Mithril Helm of Ecthelion (+1) [-1,1d3] 2 song, song of staying
]The Crown of Daeron 4 song
]The Crown of Dark Secrets 1 grace
]Robe of majesty Majesty
]The Mail Corslet of Fingon [-3,2d4] 1 grace
]The Mithril Corslet 'Starlight' [-1,2d4] 1 song, song of elbereth
(cloak of maglor 2 song, song of trees
(The Shadow Cloak of Luthien [+4] song of lorien
]The Set of Gloves of Rumil 1 grace
~Lesser jewel of grace
=The Serpentine Ring of Barahir Song of Este

So with obscene luck, you can double fist two longswords of shadows/sceptre of power, wear blessed realm/grace, a crown of grace, for 8 but a max of 12(17) song 5 grace to use with sharpness/mastery to hold shit helpless and bonk its lights out
Jesus....

>>164468434
Just wizmode and spawn it in at the end of lair or orc. Who gives a shit.

uggh DCSS weapons suck so fucking much

>>164471098
How so?

Formicids should be able to recruit ants ala Orc

Should I get rid of cursed ring of teleportation? It's not too bad, I feel like it could help me when I'm in danger

Anyone got a MEGA for Isaac plus all the patches and updates? Light on cash right now but would like to try it out.

>>164472125
Unless you're playing on an older version, yes. Even if you're playing an older version the answer is still probably yes.

>>164472170
Yeah, it's in https://archive.org/details/msdos_Rogue_1983 with all my actual roguelikes motherfucker. Piss off. This isn't the place for isaac.

>>164473174
Rogue really is the worst game ever, but I'm glad it started the genre.

>>164473293
Yeah, it's rough as fuck. ui and control schemes have come a long way.

>>164471753
>[something] should be [fun]
Balancecrime.

>>164471753
>Formicids can now recruit ants
>Orcs are now redundant and are removed

Why just ants though?
>be mummy
>recruit Tomb

https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22729

What's with tavernshitters complaining about complete non-issues again? Do their mental retardation know no bounds?

>>164460520
or a sil

>>164474280
What about luring needs to be fixed exactly

>>164474280
>Why is this important? It directly addresses the primary issue people seem to have with luring; tedium. Extreme cases of luring across vast distances would become impossible (against all but the most insignificant enemies) due to linearly increasing Hp loss/risk. Moderate cases (constant luring to minimize noise, etc) would be possible, but usually suboptimal. And moving tactically back to a corridor 5 squares away would have no significant downside.
I don't see how the tedium of luring is worse than the tedium of dying to shout/spell noise chains but that's the tavern for you.

I have a question about claws. The only thing they have going for them is bleeding, correct? Tridents can attack one tile away, axes cleave and claws bleed? Thinking of doing a troll unarmed fighter run btw

>>164471753
>beogh is changed to a god of generic racial pride; worshipping him allows a player to recruit related monsters
>on victory, score is divided by [number of friendly followers alive+1]

>>164475108
They also add +6 to base damage and to-hit. Also Unarmed is the best melee damage in the game, per aut.

>>164474179
>Humans can now bluff their way through Vaults by equipping plate+helm

>>164475194
That almost sounds too good desu. Whatever, I'm not complaining

>>164474412

Uhhhh... luring should.... uhhhhh be discouraged because uhhhh tedium! Yeah, THIS tedium. HA!

>>164471753
Formicids are soldier ants not queen ants, so no.

>>164475110
>play draconian of beogh and win every game ez

>>164475110
>Get a lucky early Beogh altar as a felid and adventure with your waifu, Natasha

>>164475292
only male ones
female formicids are obviously warrior queens looking for a worthy foe to father their new hive

>>164475295
It'd probably change to roll piety against HD meaning you wouldn't get much and as any dragon's call user can tell you what you do wont be too hot anyway

>>164475289
The solution is not removing luring, but adding an auto-lure button.

>>164475403
All Crawl characters are sexless.

>>164475450
>All Crawl characters are sexless.
Which is why some of them have tits and some of them don't, because that's an important part of being sexless.

>>164475450
spriggans have beards

>>164476182
Player characters, NPCs can have a sex.

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Still no good at this game.

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>>164476306
I reiterate my statement.

>>164476915
Spriggan's a moderate race. You have to be able to deal with the low hp. Just ram some Minotaurs, hill orcs, demonspawn, draconians, or naga through.

>>164477202
Yeah, the low hp really tanks the whole berserker-aspect. Mind, this is not first time I have run SpBe ( I really like it ) - I did 5-runer before, figured to try out 15-runer in new version to see it out more.

>>164477291
Berserk increases HP by like 10% or something though.

GUYS SIL 1.4

>>164477926

it's out? link me up senpai

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Is simulacrum stronger than death channel?

>>164478497
They're for different things and both are very strong.

>>164478067
No
actually I came here hoping you guys knew something
I mean it IS tolkien's b-day

>love nethack
>hate hell
>hell happens to be a massive part of its endgame
I can't be the only one.

>>164478984
Two of the forks deal with that. I don't remember which.

>>164478984
Pretty much all the variants fixes it. UnNethack has a non-boring hell. Maybe 3.6 improved it, I haven't played vanilla since 3.4.3.

>>164478984
>a mysterious force blocks your fun

>>164478786
Since I'm steamrolling swamp right now I guess I'll refrain for now, but I'll definitely pick it up later if it's as good as death channel.

>he actually used a death scythe
http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=20063

shit man, he was one of the stronger characters I've seen

>>164478984
Dynahack fixes that. It removes the mysterious force and makes hell's levels not mazes.

>>164479560
haha oh man
the crazy motherfucker

I guess you could halve the damage with wraithform but still, what an idiot

>>164479560
You die. You lash. It is immune. You miss. You peck. You hit with your tentacles. Goodbye, Warmage!

>>164479531
Basically, Simalcrum is proactive. You can carry over support from the previous fight if you can keep the tempo up with regen. While deathchannel is more for endurance and dpt in a fight. Since you're worshipping kiku you can also simalcrum bomb a room with a swarm of angry minions. If you're in an older version, you can hasted channel haste them as well which is exceptional for getting your minions to surround a target to draw attacks after which you haste your hydra simacs to vaporize foes.

>nethack
I fell in love with it the moment I accidentally swallowed a whole cockatrice

>>164480682
Yes, I'm sure everybody in the S&M crowd loves vanilla nethack.

>>164460984
What's the game? Looks fun.

>>164481313
Getting permanently genderswapped and then turned into a dragon to lay hundreds of eggs? Count me in!

>>164481410

Caves of Qud

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>>164465528

it doesn't look like it's coming out today

>>164482131
NO
YOU LIE
THAT'S A FILTHY LIE
YOU ELF

>>164482131
YOU HAVE TO JOURNEY THROUGH 10,000 MILES OF SIBERIAN WILDERNESS TO WREST THE .TAR FROM HALF'S NURSERY

>>164482430
Is he russian?

Does having your ancestor die in Crawl do anything apart from just not being able to use them for a bit?

>>164482131
That's kinslayer talk!

>>164483215
It also activates the effect (drain in the last version) and can also explode if you are using inner flame.

>>164483215
You can't use them for a small amount of time, pretty sure there's no effect or whatever.

>Playing halls of mist
>250'
>some evil sign thing in the wall curses and corrodes my gear into oblivion
Nice

>>164483213
I dunno

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Who even needs AC, when you have minions?

>>164483530
Also life drained me from level 13 down to level 2

>>164483530
>>164483673
I actually really love Halls of Mist even though I have not gotten many decent characters (a few okayish kindof ones)

Some day I will get to that overpowered endgame with lots of artifacts...some day.

Never trust cave walls, ever. Also, fuck ice beasts or whatever they are, ruining 9999 potions that take 9999999 years to collect. And double fuck Hounds of Oberon. Serious, the fucking most horrible hounds of any *band, and that's saying something.

What character are you running? More than half of mine have been gnome rogues because that's what the last oook HoM comp was, and I got used to them. Plus being able to dive and sell is really nice. Did a few Templars or whatever they're called too because Alchemy is sweet.

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>>164484072
I did a gnome warrior cause of the pastebin. First game.

>>164484367
nice. Warrior is fine too, though getting jumping skill per level isn't as useful as some other things (but they do get other upsides of course, like a good hit die)

The fae creatures are nice to start with because getting those directional phases is great. Read the help files after you lose a few dudes, they're interesting.

I've only barely gotten a few characters to the point of actually getting long term god worship online.

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Damn, that was trivial. Does necro stay THIS strong throughout the game?

>>164485375
pain falls off really hard

>>164484507
>Oh yay there's an orcish morning star that does 7d2! I'll buy and wield that
>Figure I'm doing dickall with it cause I need to skill up my proficiencies or something when I can't kill town trash
>Go back into the dungeon
>Red H splattering me and have to bail
>"Just lifting"
>Didn't home my gnomish awl-pike cause it was slightly corroded
>Already blew my gold on buying items for knowledge and replacing potions
>Can't go to previously cleared depths to grind
>Can't afford any weapons
>Punch losers around town and get a 1d7 hatchet
Well at least it's clear why pcb has a HEAVY WIELD indicator light.

>>164485375
No. Pain brand/bolt of draining gets a lot of resistant/immune monsters showing up. HD climbs so pain/corpse rot/Control undead/Agony begin to become a utility or mp dump instead of walking over to bonk spells. Abjuration/AoE's chewing through your nerds who are also feeling their slower speed, lower HD(Accuracy) and damage from derivative undead. You're wrestling with increased tabber weakness from siphoning xp into necromancy or weak spellpower on top of doubly weak spellpower on the multi-school spells resulting in higher stakes if you flub threat assessment and noise management. It's still very strong but it's more like a more support focused evocations

I want to see Amy and Femmy

>Go down to D2
>Read scroll
>ID
>Pick a potion
>Mutation
>What the hell
>Minotaur horns grow
>rC+
>rF+
I'm going to splat so hard.

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Kind of want to kill myself tbqh

>>164488318
>trusting cave walls

>>164488757
Game's pretty neat in a literally hitler sort of way. Are you really forced down one floor at a time until you fight the boss?

>>164488905
pretty much yeah

>>164488905
it's sort of like sil except the mindepth is based on the number of times you've used staircases instead of your turncount, IIRC

you can opt to dive down 5 levels at a time to get to a deeper level fast, and then you'll have 4 extra floors later on to spend looking for loot before the boss

>>164460984
Carapace is top-tier.
As is Phasing, though it can insta-gib you.
I'm partial to Photosynthesis but it's a pain in the ass until you're up to rank 5 or so, (you have to cut spelunking sessions short to recharge).

Many of the Esper abilities are useful for non-espers, and that line of mutations is quite strong in any case.
In particular, Force Wall is very utilitarian & is cheap, a rank or 2 of Mental Mirror is a must-have, and kindle is probably my favorite single-point ability.

Is there going to be a Sil 1.4, or is development basically over? I know it took two years between versions last time.

>january 3
>still no new sil

WE'RE ALL GOING TO FUCKING DIE

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>>164490081
>>164490227
THIRTEEN HOURS OF POWER

GIVE HIM STRENGTH /RLG/, GATHER THE SILMARILS

In CDDA active augmentations that do not directly affect player stats should have non-aug "tool" versions. Y/N?
I mean why is corpse water extractor only available as CBM? It does not even sate player directly, only generates water to pour into container.
Actually, I guess some kind of improved food dehydrator with attached container could collect liquid as a byproduct.

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>>164487683
Have this tender woman instead.

>>164490730
Don't fucking feed them you piece of shit.

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What instakilled me? I survived and killed the big guy but got killed instantly the turn after by something ;___;

>being a bully
can't we all just get along dot cowtits

>>164490896
Damn, failed the screenie. I killed a legendary called Ikas-No-Longer, servant of Ptoh, before getting instagibbed by a Duherummuhahum.

I'm getting instagibbed a lot before level 10 ;____;

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>>164490452
>nuremor

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Feeling so weak currently, I'm barely surviving against vaults trash let alone mennas.

>>164491136
say what you will about Homestuck being stupid inane pointless crapshit, but there's some nice fanart out there

>>164490896
you got confused by something which is why the name is all fucked up

I'm guessing a psion-type enemy in that legendary's entourage blasted your brain to bits, which would explain the confusion

>>164491307
Never cared for homestuck myself.

>>164491334
That explains it, there was a thousand of those. Thanks.

>>164491334
Qud confusion is such bullshit
>le UI scramble xD

What the fuck were they thinking?

>>164492785
>being confused
>being able to read

>>164493493
The confusion affects the character, not the player.
To confuse the player, they'd need to show hot traps or something like that.

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>>164466760
here ya go

>>164494210
how much of "grindgrindgrindgrindgrind" did it take to get there?

>>164494441
i dunno
ive been feeding my pets "herbed" food to boost their stats though

I keep wanting to play Elona for the wacky gimmicks, but then I hear about the grind and immediately stop wanting to play.

There should be a nogrind mod of Elona.

>>164495343
But there is.
It's called "Common Sense".

>>164495653
>have to choose subpar tactics to have fun
Literally the worst thing in game design.

>>164495836
no, the worst thing would be either pay2win microtransactions or DRM.

>>164496214
DRM is outside game design.
P2W could still count, so let me change the thesis:

>have to choose subpar tactics to have fun
Literally the worst thing in free game design.

>>164494210

why is your hp and level so low holy shit

>>164496530
>Literally the worst thing in free game design
I think 99% of the stuff in DDA qualifies for that

>>164496780
It did for a while. It improved with reworks.
Now it's closer to 60%.

>>164491279
Yeah, you're pretty reliant on apts and floor drops. Though it's not a big dead sense you can corpse delivery and bury a couple fights

>>164491279

Any weapon that isn't a Long Blades is just dogshit for anything 1v1.

>>164497378
Scimitar/double blades are pretty eh now too. You really need vorpal and enchants to crack a lot of better AC's

>>164497117
>>164497378
Too late, splatted after getting abyssed, it felt like a big relief though, so I don't really care too much.

The main lesson here is to not branch into melee if the apts aren't there. A human conjurer is better off just going blasty-casty with regen+sublimation+death channel than spreading yourself thin training melee and necromancy.

>>164497684

You have to accept that melee weapon damage is bad and you have to deal with it or you'll get stuck on using statueform+UC forever

>>164497684
It's not that. It's that you greatly benefit in having good apts in one or the other and that necromancy greatly suffers from needing other damage to deal with resists and to proc than say a conj that vomits OOD's then bonks mostly dead shit in the face or has shadow creatures and hydra with them.

Do a Hill Orc necromancer, it's the tits.

>>164456883
>>164455006

Okay guys that was a terrible idea. I switched to Jyva thinking she would protect my mutations and give me more, as my monstrous ogre rampages through the dungeon.

Turns ouyt that by "giving out random mutations" she also means "mutating good ones into nothing" and there's nothing I can do about it. Plus now there's slimes sliming fucking everywhere.

Fuck.

>>164499068
if you want to preserve your current muts Zin is the only option

Jiyva will give you a ton of benemuts but they'll be constantly changing and getting swapped for other ones

>>164498467
I tend to feel far more stronger on tabbers than casters, because the better AC/SH is such a good safety net and makes crawl more enjoyable,to me anyway, since you don't have to play every encounter like you're doing surgery.

>>164498946
I'm trying to win with all species and there's not a ton of Kiku viable species left since I've won HO,Mu,Gh and Ds already. I've tried vampire a few times, but they're just aids to play with the constant batform kiting and blood levels.

>>164497684
You won't do much melee damage with 13 str.

20str -> avg. +25% base damage, +50% max. base damage (every 10 points of str add 25%/50% to both of those)

Unencumbered, you get 0.5 ev for every dodging point at 10dex, 1 ev at 20dex, ~1.2ev at 24dex. It's a linear scale up to 20dex, so there's little reason to put dex above 20-24 range. (That's for human-sized races. Small races get much better deal from dex)

Max. Fighting and Weapon Skill double your damage each. So 27 at both quadruples your base damage roughly.

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Thank you, Cerberus. I'll make good use of this.

>>164499335
Naga and just ignore it

>>164499812
>staff of healing, nenya and cloak of retribution
enchant that cloak, it's your best friend.

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>you see here a forge (2 uses)

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Almost forgot.

>>164500516
>when you get a cloak of retribution on an old 1.75-blow mauler
>an enemy hits you 4 times and takes more than 2x your normal melee damage per turn

>>164500516
Turns out I can't even fit the ring into my setup yet, I could switch it out for a ring of combat with +stats but I'd be exchanging too much for basically just cold immunity

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Why do you still play old alphabet games, /rlg/?
I'll start.

>building a comfy randart set for resistances

>>164503049
>everything looks so cosmic now

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>>164503049
>wrecking shit with a fire axe

Well, looks like no Sil release this year. I doubt we ever see another release desu

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>>164496676
im a fairy
low hp of course
my pets are more over geared than i am because i cant wear anything past 1 stone
also my pet has these artifact boots which seems to do extra 2.7k damage when it triggers

>>164504950
aren't there scrolls that lower item weight? you just have to farm a billion of those and then you can steal all your pets' cool artifacts

>demonspawn monk
>claws
>hooves
>horns
>attuned to the shadows (+stealth)
>training unarmed combat

What god should I pick? I figured I'd choose Trog and ignore his weapon gifts or Oka and at least get armor gifts. But the stealth mutation is making me reconsider. Is unarmed viable for stabbing? Could Dith be decent?

>>164505743
Nah, just because you got nightstalker doesn't mean you HAVE to be a stabber, the reduced LoS + stealth is good for everybody really.

You'll want Okawaru, because heroism gives +5 to UC,and other skills, whenever you want is insane and finesse is great. The gifts are just nice extras, that are occasionally useful.

You could also go Makhleb, my first 15-rune win was Demonspawn^Makhleb, his summon minor demon is 1% hostile at 4 invocations(which is super cheap to get with demonspawn's +3 invo aptitude) and healing on kills is incredible.

I would either go Okawaru or Makhleb.

>>164503786
Wishlist for final Sil release ever:

>expanded throne room (for more options and sneaking around)
>stronger V and entourage (he should be almost impossible to kill)
>rebalanced viable smithing
>much harder endgame (900-950 should be pants-shitting)
>new vaults

>>164505556
some gear is just better off given to pets
i cannot take advantage of critical damage because those scale off item weight
and im running a fairy bard build anyway