/dfg/ - Dwarf Fortress General

First for Cobaltite.

Stenfags on suicide watch

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>>161648760
There are worse choices of rockfu.

>>161649086
it's a mineral you dip

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>>161649275
I'm so glad you're back. Here's another rock for you, friend.

Will just playing the game with base knowledge for a couple of hours improve my understanding of it or do I have to keep on reading drawn out guides until I become proficient enough to play from the start.

The game seems best with multiple forts of trial and error

>>161649934
Base game + wiki for details you want to know more about is the best way. Guides are usually a waste of time, since they're often tailored after one specific play style..

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>>161650140
nice

do some gneiss next

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>>161650619
‡‡‡

>>161651805
how about a nice granite cliff with a pegmatite vein going through it?

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>>161651805
Mmmm, fuck yeah, I'm almost close, if you hook a brotha up with a shiny slab of black volcanic glass next I'm not gonna Vesuvius, no, I'm not even gonna Krakatow, in a million years the shit that evolves from the mantis shrimps which crawl up on land will be calling it the Cumberland Trap Eruption and assume it took hundreds of thousands of years to build up to that point.

>>161648102
Oh, believe me, I now know that there was absolutely no exaggeration, that shit happened, and they doubtlessly flipped their shit trying to figure out why the fuck they ended up with wings in some fucking cavern under the northwest end of the map.

I ended up getting out by taking control of a demon, making it a proper adventurer, and hoofing it far enough out that I could travel again. Fucked up shit.

>>161649934
Embark location can affect the knowledge needed. If your new you should probably start at an embark with soil and no aquifer. While all the mechanics are interconnected, you can learn them one at a time at your own pace since the ONLY things you need to know to survive is how to dig, build stuff, and acquire liquor and food.

>>161649934
watch a LP if anyone you like happens to have done one. I suggest Joel, plays like a retard, but watching him is entertaining.

Is it possible to make a self-powering pump stack? I was thinking of using a dwarf for the initial power than using the water pulled out to turn a waterwheel to power the pumps. Trying to pierce an aquifer here.

>>161652220
why do elves have such african sounding names, is there a sociopolitical subtext to the game?

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>>161652220
>black volcanic glass

‡°°‡°°‡
‡°°‡°°‡

>>161653625
Elves are faggot liberals kill all elves.

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>>161653906
>Inscribed on a flaky greyish white "volcanic" stone found near a fossilized ape which seems to have turned inside out
>"dat glass"

>>161653625
Never thought about them sounding african, more like what goddamn fucking hippies thought african names would sound like when mixed with acid flashbacks of watching LotR two years ago so you wind up with some fucking kid who has to explain that you can just call him "eli" instead of "ell-eye-ye-ay" or whatnot.

>>161653114
No idea, but this gave me an idea. Could you make an automatic magma pump, powering every z-level with a waterwheel that gets moved by water from a river? How do waterwheels even work?

>>161653906
do mica now, please

>>161655875
stop whoring neindots. You will scare him away

>>161653114 >>161655696
Yes and no, pump perpetual motion engine is a thing but you will suffer loss of momentum along moving down z levels

>>161655923
>stop whoring neindots
as a russian, he probably has a repressed sexuality, he should be fine.

plus, it's cool as fuck actually having him be this prolific here in the thread. the fags at bay12 are wondering why he never posts anymore, and here in /dfg/ we're getting spoiled almost everyday.

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>>161656194
Indeed, they is our precious drawfags, and frightening them will be met with... well, severely long and well formed discussions about how fucked up that is, before it descends into another round of minotaur vs antqueen vying for contender as runner up to the obviously superior Senshi.

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>>161655875

>>161652194
i have to go now but you should have it next week

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Funny fact: I'm about to use collapsing floors in order to turn a lake into a giant underground aquarium.

Wish me luck lads!

>>161658457
good luck

>>161658457
That's a weird way to announce your plans to us. "Funny fact..."

Good luck though, looking forward to seeing the result.

>>161658197
>>161658406
nice! never stop running!

>>161656194
drawfags are one of the best things in /dfg/ desuõnesto

>>161658197
Why is she squashed?? very lewd

>>161658593
How many drawfags here? I only know ninedots and drew, but I've noticed some other pics floating around.

After seeing all these ninerocks, I'm curious as to what microcline by ninedots would look like. Is this what we have devolved to, a bunch of nerds asking for drawings of rocks. Truly we live in a weird time.

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>>161659137
There are one or two other reclusive ones, and frownanon.

bumb

>>161659359
Is there an imgur gallery or other collection of the cool stuff posted on this general? Or a compilation for each drawfag I guess?

>>161662625
some anon said he was going to post his collection on imgur, no idea if he ever did it.

>>161659137
>>161662625

I know of Timbukdrew, Ninedots, Frownanon, and the guy who did sketches for the tourney. Other drawfag posts are few and far between.

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>>161658457
>>161658557
>>161658574
The preparations are complete.

All that remains is to pull that lever.

>>161663441
>green glass

Hows dog as a source of meat? they require no upkeep and seem to have decent birthrates. Been using them as a supplement with Plump Helmets and it seems to be going fine, its just that I wonder if theres a better no upkeep meat source as I don't want my animals to be grazing above ground for certain reasons. I swear my dwarves aren't asian.

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>>161663441
>>161663530
In order to celebrate the opening properly, I burrowed all dorfs onto the site.

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>>161663764
Now let's pull that lever.

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>>161663914

>>161663732
Dog tastes fine IRL as does cat, don't really see why people have a shit fit over it. As for in game dog makes an alright food resource, not as good of a bread winner as hunting though. If you don't like your animals grazing above ground you could always pasture them below in the caverns.

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>>161664065
And there you have it. Sadly, no fishies have moved in yet, but I'm sure they will as soon as the water stops moving.

>>161664065
This is the sort of stuff I come to this general for

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>>161664257
>>161664279
The fishies are finally starting to show up.

First off: a lungfish.

>>161664459
A truly dwarven endeavour. Shame it isn't square though.

>>161664459
All that space

>a lung fish

The sooner we have an aquatic civ that trades in sea life like the elves do with land fauna, the sooner we can have proper seaworld style aquariums for our dwarves to dine beside.

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>>161664459
>>161664607
>>161664693
Now the second floor is completely furnished, too. There is no fish there, though. Maybe vermin fish always seek the lowest point?

>>161665520
I think vermin fish just have weird spawn/wander quirks. The few times I've paid attention they always seem to be in the same places.
Also lungfish can swim/walk on land/fly so I'd discount them.

>>161665520
>>161664459
How does the aquarium work? Is it just connected to the ocean or is it like a one-way entrance with no way for the fish to get out? One of my main dieties in my current fort is related to the sea or something like that, so what better way to worship him than with a sea-serpent in the temple?

We've also got archaeolanon with their maps and stories of the sites they visit!

>>161664257
I completely approve, given all the shit I do like this in campsites, but the best part to me is that you had the whole fort waiting right there, so if anything got fucked up and backfired they'd all get a front row seat, bravo on the comfy setup.

>>161659217
Goddammit, the realization of what has actually taken place hit me just as I was trying to cough and I choked on one of those painful half-burp/half-cough/feels like a rock in your chest gulps of air, dick move man.

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>>161665520
>>161666217
>>161666276
>>161666623
There, finally a non-lungfish. That yellow guy is a clow loach.

>>161666276
I just build a huge floor above the water and collapsed it down into the aquarium. I had already mined out the entire aquarium from the inside, leaving only the thin floor at the lake floor.

>>161666623
>We've also got archaeolanon with their maps and stories of the sites they visit!
Who?

I finished more tests

Out of 100 rounds, the human with the two-handed sword won 38 times and the human with the short sword 62 times, they were both using steel weapons and armor, and no skills.

With grand master weapon and armor user skills, the human with the two-handed sword won 40 times and the human with the short sword 60 times.

Well, for the first time in these tests I've actually seen weapon degradation.

Sometimes, when one of the humans passes out from exhaustion, the other one will keep attacking his head, without removing the helm first or choking him instead, and he does this until he either finally decides to remove the helm, or the unconscious human bleeds to death or suffocates because of previous lung damage.

In this test I've seen that, if the human with the short sword decides to do this after the human with the two-handed sword passes out, his weapon will degrade after enough hits, it can reach maximum wear level, but I haven't seen it break.

I don't know why it only happened to the short sword, it didn't happen to two-handed swords, long swords or halberds, maybe size has something to do with it?

>>161668864
That's interesting. There hasn't been much written up about weapon/armour degradation.

You know, its really cool how DF has no graphics, so you can imagine it in whatever style you want. It can be realistic, anime, disney-style, line art, what have you. Also, you can pretend that armor of the same metal made in different civs has aesthetic differences since there's no proof otherwise.

>>161668864
>maybe size has something to do with it?
I've suspected that for a while. I've had weapons degrade in adv mode, but the only weapons I've actually seen break are daggers NPCs are using.

>>161669298
>Also, you can pretend that armor of the same metal made in different civs has aesthetic differences since there's no proof otherwise.
this.

that's one of the greatest things about timbukdrew's art. the clothing in his art is extremely diverse. with the vague descriptions and names we get in the game, it's pretty easy to imagine the same diversity as you see in timbukdrews pics. firearms are the ONE exception.

>>161669298
Seeing all this blood and gore drawn disney style would be horrific.

>>161668864
Damn, why are the 2handers weaker? I would have guessed they'd fare better against armour due to the extra weight, but so far they've lost to pretty much everything.

>>161669684
https://youtu.be/fcbazH6aE2g

>>161670356
My guess is they are heavier and slower to swing, so the shortsword is able to land hits more often than the zweihander.

>>161670762
Ah, good point. I guess you don't need to slice off a hand to render a combatant unable to wield their weapon, just slice some nerves. Maybe Toady could buff the heavier weapons by making them slightly harder to block or something?

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>>161667652
Fuck, can't find any of the images of his since I left them with his filename format and nothing I tried pulled them up in my toogoddamnhuge df/andwhatnot/folder.

He drew like explorer's notebook/journal entries, maybe I went with indianon jones the first time? Really neat little idea with a surprising amount of attention to detail so everything is really familiar when you've wandered through various towns and lairs and such. Though I did get this done for me!

>>161670356
>>161670762
>>161671238
Short swords are just as good at tearing muscles through armor as two-handed swords, it can even happen on the first hit.

I also thought that a heavier weapon would be better against armor, but it doesn't seem like that's the case here.

>>161670609
Close to what I imagine but, not quite. It certainly feels disney but, I had more of a silver and bronze age (60s, 70s, and 80s) disney artstyle in my head.

>>161663732
Pigs are also a good "no upkeep" source of meat. Pigs don't graze, so you can stick a couple in a small room with a bare stone floor and leave them for a couple years without any issues. Can also milk the females for a source of milk and cheese.

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>>161671303
Wait are you on about the guy who posted the neat little adventure he went on? With sketches of the human town and temple?
Sadly I don't seem to have those saved.

>>161672470
What the fuck is going on in there Jesus Christ

>>161672797
IIRC, it all started out with an anon cracking some shitty pun about "goblins" and "goblets".

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>>161672470
Who made that one? It doesn't look like the style of any regular drawfag.

>>161673434
Dunno, some brilliant soul.

How do I train speech skills in adv mode? I want to convince my fellow gobbos about the virtues of law, order, fuck nature, and martial prowess, but everytime I state my values either they agree or the rare argument I get into doesn't give me much xp. I just want to be a goblin senator ;_;

>>161675808
If the people you argue with come from the same civ, they're likely to share some common ground with you, value-wise. I recommend that play the devil's advocate by propagating values you don't actually have. This is sure to stir up some discussion.

>the rare argument I get into doesn't give me much xp
That can't be helped. It's the only way to learn.

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>constantly kill people for entertainment and wallow in dwarven despair in fortress mode
>get emotional when my adventurer dies
You were too good for the Realms of Prophecy, Fuji. RIP

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I havent had too much time to keep the fort going, but i've added a few buildings, each with a roof and beds (possibly basements to come). Theres now a brewery, woodworking shop, pottery, farmhouse, clothiers shop, and a seed stockpile next to the sunberry plantation. Soon the road will be paved with earthenware bricks, and my tavern with have a nice clay floor. I've got a bunch of human mercs in my militia, and they already fought off a raiding party of 5 goblin bowmen. Sadly, the cougar I bought from the elves was accidentally butchered, along with most of my hens. rip.

>>161676040
I got it. So I'm going to go to human, dwarf, and elf civs and persuade them to dislike martial prowess and law while persuading my fellow goblins to become fierce warriors and conquer the barbarians that had descended into chaos.
do personality traits actually influence stuff like them training their skills or is it just flavor? the wiki doesn't tell much on that

>>161676704
It's not just flavour. Strong discrepancies in values between civs can lead to bad relations and even war.

However, values like respect for martial prowess doesn't affect civs on that level yet. The only value that has a "real" effect on civ behaviour is the view on knowledge. Civs which don't value knowledge won't build libraries.

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>>161673663
pretty sure thats the unnamed tourney drawfig

>>161678972
speaking of the tourney, new one soon? since it's a new month

>>161679190
That depends on tourney-anon, but ye i'm keen. If he can't for whatever reasons, i'm sure one of these fine anons can organise it.

>>161658406
WTF

ninedots spoke again.

this is the first time I've seen so many words from him.

>>161679613
He did it great last time, I'd prefer a repeat

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Why can't I ever get a cute human dancer in my fort, /dfg/?

The only one that wasn't jewnosed and kind of cute was missing a cheek.

Ok, I did another test

I have made a race which are minotaurs but with the default attribute range (200:700:900:1000:1100:1300:2000]), which is the ones human use, I think. They are called "minos".

Out of 50 rounds the minotaur won 43 times and the mino 7, they both had no armor and weapons and the natural skills of minotaurs.

So, yes, I'd say attributes are pretty important, I still don't know if the attributes of arena creatures are randomized or they just start at the average of their attribute range.

>>161678972
he said his name was DoubleDonionRings

>>161680702
she sounds hot. post pics you saucy mongrel

>>161681576
>post pics
had a laugh, not gonna lie

>>161681576
She's gone now. She was skiny, with long hair, an upturned nose and some other things.

>>161680748
Also, here's the raw of the mino http://pastebin.com/HBaVsc1Q

>>161680748
I thought that was the default attribute range for physical attributes for humans. Not every attribute.

>>161683284
The wiki page says the humans' median attribute values are always 1000, it doesn't say if it's only for physical attributes, but if you check the soul attribute it says that 1000 is the human average.

>>161683614
Ah. Must have been a case of me remembering wrong.

Also, as far as I know. Attributes in arena are average.

>>161679190
>>161679613
>>161680265

No trip, on mobile.

I'm going through some family matters currently. I was reluctant to do it again but, I will start sign ups for another one either next week or the week after since you guys want another one.

We do still need to get some things straight before we go through with this. General concensus is that creatures on the small end of the points scale should recieve a buff. If this is the case then a new racial points chart needs to be made for the rules doc, not really my realm of expertise.

>>161670762
They're not. The time it takes to make an attack is defined for each attack on the weapon in the raws. The majority of attacks have [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3], including every attack for both short swords and two-handed swords. Whips are the only vanilla weapons with a slower attack.

>>161687875
Hmm, it was just a thought. I completly forgot about that token.

>>161685048
Definitely increase the cost of bigger races by a large amount.

>>161685048
>General concensus is that creatures on the small end of the points scale should recieve a buff.
There was a pretty lengthy debate about that last thread. I personally don't think that's a good solution, but I don't think >>161688471 is ideal either. I have an idea, but I'd rather wait until I'm back home at my pc so I can explain and discuss it more fluidly.

>>161688879
We've got plenty of time, so no worries.

>>161672470
Yeah! He did a few of them.

>>161687875
Which is why Stel and Grimlocke are bros for faking in a different-length-weaponry feeling effect.

Similar here.

>Adjust the default hand to hand attacks by size, slower: reduced recover, but below a certain point increased prepare since it "takes longer" to reach a foe.

>Larger: higher recover since moving those limbs around takes more time and energy, but above a certain point the attacks can hit "earlielr" since they started further away.

>Bonus: Adjust the contact area/whether edged or not/penetration percent/independent or bad multi/velocity multiplier above/below 1000 (which is default~nil tag value)

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>>161680772
I'm DoubleDonionRings, I've never said I made those pics, someone just assumed I was for some reason, probably due to similar art styles. Here's the pic that probably started that.

>>161691635
Seems like a good idea, but it must be a bitch to fine tune enough to prevent some choices being clearly superior. I should check out their weapon raws.

>>161694379
I looked at the old thread and it looks like I misunderstood what someone said, but no DoubleDonionRings (me) is not the artist that made those Tournament drawings

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do dwarves not throw parties like they used to? its been about 6 years since i last played the game, and i haven't noticed anything regarding parties at all. i remember their party habits were super fun.

>>161697728
>Socialize/Socialize!/Pray/Pray!/Ponder x/Ponder y!

>>161697728
Socialize is the new party

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Has anyone else ever paved roads with expensive shit? My embark has fucktons of gold and I was wondering if I should attempt paving a road out of gold

>>161699048
Yeah. If you're actually making a road and not floors dwarves will love it. Roads get both architecture and masonry/carpentry/metalcrafting quality modifiers. I would recommend turning the bars into blocks first, as bars used in constructions still show in the totals on your stocks screen. Also free blacksmithing xp.

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>>161671303
>>161667652
>>161666623
I think this is one of his pictures.

>>161700238
so whats so special about roads? do they serve a purpose or are they just aesthetics?

>>161700741
They use fewer materials than floors, get quality bonuses and can be appreciated by dwarves as mentioned. On the other hand, they count as buildings so you can't build anything else on them as you could with floors.

>>161700238
Do making them into blocks double them or is the only reason for the stocks?

>>161701084
If thats the case I think I'll just stick to my smoothed stone floors even though they are mismatched, at least they're free.

>>161701173
Nope, it's a 1:1 ratio. It's just so can easily see your stock of bars, which is almost always more important than seeing the stock of any particular block. Also, I wasn't joking about the free xp, it's a great way to train up blacksmiths without losing value on low quality products.

>>161701768
My main blacksmiths are already close to legendary from making tons of other shit out of the gold

>>161701768
>>161701173
In addition to the advantages already discussed, a gold block road probably has a higher value than an otherwise identical gold bar road but it comes at a cost of not being able to tear up the road and turn it into furniture or goblets or whatever as easily and you'd lose some material when going from gold bars to gold block road to furniture, which wouldn't happen when going from gold bars to gold bar road to furniture. Whether or not it would be otherwise identical might be a little tricky to answer. If building it from blocks takes masonry skill and building it from bars takes metalsmithing skill of some sort it would depend on how skilled your masons and metalsmiths of appropriate types are.

Don't make native gold blocks unless you're sure you're never going to want the gold for any other purpose, since those can't be melted down like non-native gold can.

>>161700670
>drawn maps
this isn't my fetish but I'm still very much interested

>>161702926
Damn it, now I'm curious as to how maps could be a fetish. Do mapists like only certain styles of maps? Do they prefer Mercator, Robinson, Peters, etc? Do they limit themselves to certain scales or types? Are they only into topographical or political?

>>161703670
Well, that depends on what definition of "fetish" you're using.

On the one hand there's stuff like
http://xkcd.com/977/
https://earth.nullschool.net
http://progonos.com/furuti/MapProj/CartIndex/cartIndex.html

On the other hand there's that Ohio copypasta, which is significantly more disturbing than it might sound.

>>161702419
Nah, a gold bar and a gold block are both worth 150. Blocks convert back to bars at 1:1 as well, so you can still reuse them if you don't mind melting them first.

>>161705259
>ohio copypasta
>disturbing

you have piqued my interest

>>161696473
161696473
Then if it wasn't you, the question remains...

Who is that semen demon?

>>161700670
Yes! Also I think Indianon Jones is better than the prior archaeology related attempt I made.

>>161705259
nullschool is my jam, I spend so much fucking time looking through that shit instead of tracking down some bullshit filtered weather report online.

People were talking about Matthew possibly hitting land, I'm sitting there watching the models update and posting snaps of them for folks in the area like some sort of cheapass weatherman.

>Dumat Earthfondle has claimed the position of queen of the Portals of Rasping

Dear fucking god its like year 2 time to bust my ass to make a god damn royal bedroom

I don't even have any artifacts

>>161688879
>>161689369
So a few threads back the idea was floated to use points to buy attributes. It was pretty quickly discarded as it would've involved dfhacking every combatant. But I thought of another way to do it that I think you all might like.

Since each arena combatant was given a custom race we could add a custom stat block to each of them that sets them to a default "range" of [1000:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000] for every stat. Then points could be spent at a fixed ratio to increase attributes as well skills and equipment. Maybe something to the effect of 4 per point of agility, 2 per strength, toughness, or spatial/kinesthetic sense, 1 per willpower or focus. Those numbers are just off the hip, probably need more adjusting.

There are quite a few benefits here. For one, it eliminates the need to tweak point pools for races with higher natural attributes that give them an inherent advantage (e.g. minotaurs, elves). It eliminates the problem of the benefit from extra points for smaller creatures flattening as the tournament progresses, which seems to be the biggest objection to the "give them more points" solution. It also eliminates the issue of arena spawned creatures' random attributes, so an unlucky roll on the attribute range doesn't invisibly doom participants. It might make some less conventional builds viable, especially unarmed fighters. And, finally, it not only makes additional points for smaller creatures more valuable in later rounds than they otherwise might have been, it also gives a good reason to increase points for all combatants across the board (still favoring small creatures, ofc) so that managers fielding large creatures can have more build options without hurting viability.

The biggest problem with it is the extra work that the tourney organizer will have to do for each character. There is also the smaller problem of character building being that much more complex.

Well, what do you all think?

>>161707018
Well, I could edit attributes like that. It would be simple on my end. I have no problem with it. It might slow down the time between matches though as I would have to go into the raws each time but, it isnt that much of a hassle.

If we could figure out a good point to attribute number then Im all for it.

>>161700670
Some anon made a really nice map of their Dwarf Fortress world. It wasn't hand drawn, but it clearly wasn't just put through some filter or program. I can't find it anywhere. I wish I had saved it when I saw it.

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>>161707932
Might this be it? These two were from the same thread in late September.

Is there a way to ask someone's name in adventure mode?

>>161708349
They should tell you upon greeting them.

>>161700238
Is it worth training architecture? Will making a tonne of 1x1 roads do it?

>>161708163
No it was professional level, looked like he ran the detailed map dumps through photoshop to touch it up. Sepia toned and very detailed. I might have seen it in a /tg/ map thread.

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>>161709112
try it :^)

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Do dwarfs not marry or something?
They socialize all day, have their own rooms but nothing happens.

>>161711356
marriage is a lot rarer now than it used to be.

>>161711431
Well I'm in a pickle then, mountainhome is dead so I'm stuck with a very small number of dorfs, that don't seem to want to reproduce.

>>161649934
Once you have the basics down it's really just up to you to find features you want to try out and wiki them, master it, and move on to the next thing

Been doing it for years and there's always something I haven't tried yet

>>161709112
Yes, that will do it. A lot of supports or archery targets would as well. The building doesn't actually have to be finished to train architecture. After the first part (where the architect places the materials) is finished you can just cancel the building. It trains really slowly, so be prepared to spend a long time working on it if you want high levels.
I consider it kind of a vanity project. It does increase your fort's value if you have a lot of high quality architectured buildings and it will give a lot of happy thoughts, but time and dwarfpower investment isn't really justified by the returns. If you have some dwarves with a lot of downtime and don't mind a lot of micromanaging I say go for it.

>>161711570
How did Mountainhome die off? War?

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>spend an hour building a home for my adventurers
>time to go to the nearest town to hire some guards
>notice an entity marker in the town
>hm, probably a vampire or some goblin muggers
>it's a goblin army
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>161711868
Double-teamed by humans and elves.
Then humans and elves double-teamed the goblins.
For now there's peace. But you never know with these bloodthirsty humans.

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Been like 4 years since I first started playing DF, always with the crutch of therapist

How the hell do I function without it? (Assigning my dorfs jobs and what not, the latest version doesn't seem to be simpatico with therapist)

>>161711904
Nevermind, they just keeping bumping into me and my companions and asking how we're doing and saying that it's terrifying.

>see kennels in building list and think I'm going to finally figure out how to use one for 600 millionth time
>move on with life without ever building or understand the point of kennels

>>161712184
kennels are vestigial at the moment like coins. You used to train (and keep?) dogs in them but, now training can be done anywhere.

>>161712004
It is your duty to try to rebuild and defend against those humans and elf fags. Or maybe just wait and see if they kill each other off

>>161712012
u->z->p->l

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Labor

shouldn't silver be more valuable than iron? Iron is as common as dirt, yet for some reason its value is second only to gold and platinum.

It makes most metals seem like a waste when you can find iron literally anywhere on a sedimentary layer.

>>161713774
well, iron is by far the most useful metal, especially if there's also flux.

silver, on the other hand, is useless for anything except for hammers. it makes some pretty nice furniture, but the time it takes to haul silver furniture makes it not worth the trouble.

>>161680748
Awesome, good work.

>>161683868
It'd be great if you had source on that. I suspect it's the case, as it is a testing arena and wouldn't be very helpful if it weren't.

>>161706153
Looking at the handwriting I'm tempted to say that's frownanon.

>>161707018
I think that's excellent, all around. A bit more work for the tourney organiser but shouldn't be *too* much.

Vanilla DF uses different pools for levelling attributes and skills, maybe we can figure out a relative value from them?

Human Peasant: 15att points 35 skill points = 2.33 skill per att
Human hero: 35att 95skill = 2.71 skill per att
human demigod: 105att 161skill = 1.53 skill per att

We're unlikely to hit demigod levels so we could say a relative value of 2.5 att-skill point.

>Just introduced my friend to DF
>Showed him basic building, collecting, and mining
>Honestly don't know that much myself
>He seems to be enjoying himself
>Says he wants to learn more

I've doomed him, am I a bad person?

>>161716241
We all dwarfs here

>>161680748
So should we in future make minotaurs minos, or just stump their points? I think further stumping of points is bad, as then the combatants get quite stale.

>>161685048
>>161688879
>>161688471
Taking away from bigger creatures is not an option. We can see this with elephant man in last tourney. He had so little points that he had to make a gamble and go for the 2x thing. Taking away even more is even less good. I don't see why smaller creatures can't just get a boost in points. Unless someone can prove that small creatures CANNOT win if given enough points, I don't see the dissent to this.

Also, tourneyanon, you should just go with intuition on how to make the pointsystem and use the tourney as a testing thing and finetune it in the future if needed. If we start to put too much effort into just getting this thing going, then it is doomed to fail. Of course make use of the tests that one guy is doing. His Minos vs Minotaur experiment should shed some light on the direction needed. If he were to do another one with a large creature and armored and buffed up small creature it would shed some more light to the pointing system.

>>161707018
I see no problem with this, if tourneyanon is up to it. Though we might want to try one tourney with just giving smaller creatures more, and see if it suffices, as it is best to make these tourneys as simple as possible, so they will survive for long.

>>161712012
(u)nits>find who you need>(z)go to unit>(p)reperences>(l)abour

OR

(v)iew units>unsing arrow keys find the one you need>p>l

Also, how will we do the skills thing this tourney round? Last time every one pretty much saw what their opponent had before the fight begun. Should the skills and/or items be hidden before the start of the fight? Might make it more interesting.

>>161716241
I have convinced about three people to learn the game and donate to Toady
Anyone here trying to convert heretics to the game?

>>161718381
Got one friend to play it, mostly likes adv mode.

>>161718190
We did hide things from the semis onwards. Seems to work.

>>161718190
We figured that out by the time the round 2 was up. I stopped updating the roster with current equipment and skills when they were submitted. When I posted the overviews right before matches that was the "time's up, no more changes past this point." the one exception being an incident in which an anon pointed out that Sten's overview said swordsman instead of axeman. This caused me to basically rewrite history because, when I posted the overview the match was already recorded and I was in the process of reviewing and typing it up. I have since deleted the gif but, here is how it went down.

Sten had won, he charged at SAF once and SAF dodged backwards towards the ledge. She swings uselessly at Sten with her shields as he backs up again and charges. He takes off an arm I think and she tumbles backwards into the lava in a huge boiling cloud.

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>>161718725
>Sten had won, he charged at SAF once and SAF dodged backwards towards the ledge. She swings uselessly at Sten with her shields as he backs up again and charges. He takes off an arm I think and she tumbles backwards into the lava in a huge boiling cloud.
DELET

We may be one of the slowest boards on /vg/, but I do sincerely feel that we may have the best content creators.

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>>161718483
Man, worst part for me is that I like both, but I am a whore for having dfhack conveniences when I fort it up.

So after doing the whole armyslaughter thing I started up a fort on one of the battlegrounds, gonna totally murder every tree in the site, got my lil homies trundling around getting shit set up and ready for migrants, hit's 9th of malachite, first summer: boof, crash to desktop.

End up doing the whole "oh shit I'm a bat now what" experiment to get around the crash so I'm back to adventuring trying to track down the cause.

Been killing armies and shit up over by the towns and forest retreats in the upper right, there's a sacked town with a campsite/fort right above it now, just traveled my ass back over there from the northwest corner after the bathorrors.

>>161718725
I think there is a huge aspect to this that's being ignored.
The rules themselves for choosing equipment and skills are a little unbalanced.

Armor is way too much. The base costs for everything on that should be lowered honestly. Smaller creatures need armor more, and a good/decent pair is affordable until way to late in the tourney.
There is also oddities in the skill costs. Why is shield user so much more than armor? Why are minor skills like discipline, observer, swimmer, etc.. so much?

Lastly, I do have a suggestion for the bigger creatures. Limit their items. This is Sten's manager, actually. When I was choosing where to put my points, I went into it knowing full well how important weapon skill is. For a moment let's consider the Coldsteel vs Sten fight. He had one more weapon skill than I did, and yet I won. What that shows me is that Sten's size and speed and attributes more than made up for it. When the most important factor in a fight is a weapon and how skilled you are with it, and it's known that bigger creatures can keep up in points in that skill, why not just remove the use of the weapon? Minotaurs, yetis, trolls and so forth would still do quite well with the non-weapon fighting skills.

>>161720289
>>161664279
>>161658593
I feel like retaking my writefagging duties to this genereal /dfg/, is there anything you want to hear a story about?

Is Adventurer mode any good? Mine glitches out whenever I try to talk to someone, and my dialogue options blend with whatever's behind them in an incomprehensible mess (I use Linux Lazy Newb Pack)... How do you guys play it? What's good about it?

>>161720975
helme plumpes

>>161720987
>Mine glitches out whenever I try to talk to someone, and my dialogue options blend with whatever's behind them in an incomprehensible mess
are you using Truetype? if you do, turn it off.

>>161720464
I honestly am leaning towards trying the point for attribute thing that some other anons have been talking about. I don't really know how I feel about limiting items on any of the races. As for any of the skill and equipment balancing issues I don't know where to start. Remember these aren't my rules, I merely borrowed them.

While we're on the topic of Coldsteel. Our little edgehog (and by extent all hedgehog men) have a terrible tendency to curl up into a ball when they experience wounding at any time. His match with Sten was actually the second time I had seen that happen. In one of Coldsteel's earlier bouts (TPM I think) TPM got a early hit in and Coldsteel doubles over into his ball state what lasts is just page after page after page after page of TPM wailing on Coldsteel, passing out, wailing on him, passing out, wailing on him. This literally lasted forever, I have three fucking gifs of that match up and it didnt end. I eventually stopped it because I was tired of waiting. Most likely TPM would have won but, it would have been one of the most pathetic victories of the tournament also, it wasn't as colorful as the one that "actually" happened. Also I think one of the gifs got corrupted so it ruined the process.

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>>161720987
Oh, you gotta disable textwillbetext in adventurer mode, don't work.

What's good about it?

>Bump into an army so big it breaks the universe when you try to directly walk into it
>gotta let them march up and load at their own rate
>all 1.2 GB of them
>set up a massive fucking battle in the town they're sieging
>track down the ones that flee
>ends up being recorded as a win in legends for their side for some reason
>retire that guy
>make a fort on the camp where he stashed some loot that had a neat brook > waterfall with a little natural cave under it
>hope the starting 7 don't mind the thousand or so elf bodies laying around
>was the battlefield where I finished the stragglers and the * disappeared after all
>getting all dug in
>game crashes on 9th of malachite
>can't fix it
>can't retire > unretire my guy because game crashes when updating history
>try to force switch but can't find him
>make an owl into a doppleganger of him in the fort
>end up bodyhopping across the world
>take over a demon
>turn it into a big crazy looking dorf lass
>march overland back home
>punch a hydra to death
>still a bit crashy near the fort/camp
>head over to a nearby town and ask if they want a new town guard or whatnot since I can't claim sites or shit
>"I'm sorry, I'm afraid there is no room for you here."

Was able to get set up in another town so it's all good, but fuck, got too much history going from this: http://i.imgur.com/HXnMuDi.png to this: >>161720360 for me to give up on it like that!

>>161711904
WHAT VERSION AND GRAPHICS PACK ARE YOU USING, DAMN. Are you using dfhack or LNP?

>>161721174
This one I actually have proof of. I found part one of the fight in my recycling bin but, 4chan doesn't allow files over 4MB.

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>>161721347
That's the Myne tileset or the CLA version of it which comes with the CLA graphics set, the only one worth using really, since the neat little "an eagle is a little e with wings and a beak, a cat is a c with cat ears and eyes, a Roc is a big angry fucking R-Roc" is great.

>>161721558
what version tho. I have never, eeever seen an army on the march.

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>>161721665
Well, I can't tell without my little superior bunny-ear-soldier-bars but if those are soldiers and not just bandits they might just be heading some direction for the winter?

>I bump into 4307 elf soldiers
>other anon finds a town full of armed but oddly friendly goblins wandering around
Just that time of year?

I'm on 43.05 btw, I think they were too.

Just in case there were any doubts and people thinking maybe I just slaughtered a whole town of elves and pretended it was an army, though.

>>161721312
>>161721558
>>161721076
Thank you very much for your replies, guys!

Should I download a separate folder, raw, with a graphics set for Adventurer mode, since LNP is an older version?

>>161722187
Just check the tileset and graphics subforum. All threads should provide the needed download links and instructions.

How do I split coin stacks?

I thought dropping them through a hatch would split them but it didn't. Is there some way to do it with minecarts?

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>>161721558
What about a platypus?

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>>161722414
This is the upscaled one I desquared a while back but it's a p with a tail and bill, as you'd expect.

>>161720975
The story of the X who died of age at a not so convenient moment.

>>161722681
>desquared
thank god

>>161722846
Yar, CLA is cool shit and has them in the thread, though I didn't update to the newest one since the way they do tilesets for the pylnp thing means that mammals-other was like 4000x108 pixels with only 288 in the middle being used and I couldn't get into snipping it all out to rescale/clean up/etc and never finished it.

Can submerged animal traps trap large marine animals?

>>161720975
Dwarf erotica
Examples:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7089173/

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None of these are my values.

I started out as a peasant and now in the same day, here I am convincing a civ leader that peace is a waste of time and that war is the way to go.

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>>161725591
Traveled west over the river to the neighboring hamlet to test my new powers of persuasion. It's completely deserted save for a lone elf administrator in the mead hall. I convinced him that trees are worthless and that nature is a lie. Still not my real values, I'm just straight up lying to myself at this point.

>>161700741
It used to be that nobles demanded roads built. Or maybe you had to build roads before they'd show up? I don't even know.
Anyway, they had an economic purpose that's since been deprecated.

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Funny fact: my failure to account for the lake above my fort when digging an office for my future liaision ended with the death of an engraver. I tried to dig an escape route from abov, but it was too late.

RIP in rips.

Another funny fact: I know have a baroness.
She's 24 and single. She likes dresses, rabbits and catapult parts. She deeply respects hard work, fairness and friendship. She values family, but since she doesn't have a partner yet, I suspect that she's gay.

>>161725023
>A young dorf with a beard barely over a foot long roughly mines an ancient multi-veined seam of mithril.

>At the end he hits an aquifer and it drenches him with a rich stream of water with bits of feldspar.

Oh god

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At least the poor sod got a memorial and a statue on the lakeside cliff.

Aparently, this guy was just in his early twenties.

>>161728147
Okay, using the relationship glitch to look at dead people, I found out that she was actually a 19 year old girl. Her last thought was "It won't end well".

>>161727458
>24
That's basically early teens for a dwarf. Give her time.

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Seems I rolled a world where all dwarven civs are dead. Further examinations showed that there were 2 civs. The first got killed by a forgotten beast pretty much the second it was founded and the second one got flanked by two huge elven civs from north and south and just lost all their sites. Should I just roll with this? Made mainly for adv and never really choose a dwarven adventurer. How would even fortress mode work in a world like this?

>>161728883
By rebuilding dwarven civilization. Once you have a dwarven civilization up and running again I think dwarves should show up on the adv mode menu.

>>161728976
might at one point just embark and retire for that effect. My laptop really isn't up to task on making big forts, so I mainly adventure with it.

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Today, I finally opened up my first exhibition area in the caverns. Here, guests at my tavern can have meal while overlooking the vast caverns below. All behind the safety of the glass, of course.

Also, there's an FB down there, but he can't get to me, so I'll let him live.

>>161728883
I made a goblin adventurer, that was a part of human civ. I went to the nearest town and a soldier suddently attacked me. Shouldn't I be a part of this civ? Was I not allowed to be under the castle? Is he just particularly hostile against gobbos?

>>161729580
You should mine open the left side and build a window there too, would be a better view.

>>161730393
Gained the upper hand when I stabbed his foot and he lost his ability to stand. Should I just kill him and hide the body or can I still reason with him and get him to yield?

>>161730393
I won't, for several reasons.

>1. The view wouldn't be all that good, considering the trees in the way.
>2. I prefer it to be surrounded by 100% natural rock. This requires the outer wall to be completely flat, like where the current window is.

Instead, I'll just make more of these rooms, in the lower cavern levels.

>>161730483
I got him to yield, but at the same time he attacked me and agreed, now he is again hostile against me without me retaliating.
Is this just adv mode buggery, or what is going on?

>>161730646
Yielding is generally a bit odd. So is faction loyalty. You can tell him to yield again, but there's no guarantee it'll work.
If you feel uneasy about killing people you don't even know, you can just walk away.

>>161730646
Break his arms and legs and carefully explain the value of self control and tranquility.

>>161730880
>>161731057
It might have been a different human civ who owned the town and they might have been at war. Might also be because the guard near the lady was asleep I didn't notice sooner. Anyhow he killed me: now my quest as gobbo junior is to get stronger and take over the whole city that just unexpectedly attacked one of my kind. This racial prejudice must end, at whatever cost.

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>>161731625
Don't take the path of vengence. Take the path of peace. Teach peace, harmony, and tranquility to this misguided land. Become gobbo buddha.

>>161731908
>pointy ears
>surrounded by trees

hey guys havent played DF in awhile

anything new happen in the last year or so?

>>161724847
Submerged cage traps can. Animal traps are for catching vermin.

>>161722307
When traders arrive take them to the trade depot. Then designate them to be traded as a stack, and then take them back 1 at a time. I recommend using a macro.

>>161733101
So cage traps can? Will the animal die if the cage is taken out of the water? Will submerged aquariums autmatically become filled with water?

Also, can I move a marine animal from a cage to an aquarium on land, or do I have to keep it in the cage I caught it in?

>>161733265
thanks bro!

>>161712012
dfhack has an autolabor plugin which automatically turns labors on and off for dwarves depending on what current tasks are queued/needed. I believe it gives preference to dwarves with higher skill in the needed task, but I'm not sure.

>>161733813
All cages are watertight (and magmatight), the only difference between a glass cage and any other cage is the name. Cages that catch a creature underwater catch some water with them, and as far as I know that's the only way to get water in a cage. I assume that means that if you transfer an aquatic creature into a cage without water it will die, but I've never tried. Non-aquatic creatures won't drown in cages, so maybe that applies to aquatic ones as well. If you're going to experiment with them post your results, I'd like to fill the gaps in my knowledge on the subject.

>>161733813
I've never tried it myself, but the guy who set up a mermaid farm succeeded in catching aquatic creatures. It's possible. Fish can survive a short time on dry land before they drown, so you can probably move them between aquariums as long as the distances are short.
I suggest you do some first-hand testing with aquariums and water. It's not a common endeavor, especially since mermaid bone value was nerfed.

>>161737114
Are Sperm Whale farms possible?

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How do prisoners work in the game right now? Can I free them/return them to their parents?

>>161739365
Probably, if you can catch a breeding pair. A creature's a creature.

>>161739396
Yes.

If you fail to find any relatives, you can ask someone else to take care of them.

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>>161739628
Hah, I read this as a response to: >>161739396 and was very amused at the idea of running a prisoner farm.

To answer that question though... it's uh, awkward right now. I used to do it all the time for the instantly capped hero status all over the place, and the cuteness of the reunions.

Now?

Weeeeell...

>>161730637
>I prefer it to be surrounded by 100% natural rock

I agree, I also only eat non-GMO organic plump helmet.

>>161740654
All those years of not doing their chores, even a relative can't take it for too long and will snap.

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>>161739396
I uh... kinda stopped trying after this was the consistent result.

>Ok kids, mind the dead goblins, don't trip, let's just get you out of here and back home safe
>Ok, Isi, this your mother's place right?
>Well, don't let me stop you, go on, give her a hug...
>Wait, what sort of hug needs a knife?
>Oh shit... why is this...
>Is this my fault?
>Ok kids, good news and bad news... I uh... can't find your real parents.
>Yep, just up and vanished or something, weird right?
>On the other hand, this nice old dorf couple are totally happy to adopt you!

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This is so funny for some reason.

so when you retire a fort, does civilization pop up around it? Do your dwarves migrate to other places?

>Adventure mode faggot get out
>REEEEEEEEEEE!

>>161742002
Settlements can be founded, destroyed or reclaimed at any time during the course of normal gameplay. I don't know if the location of player forts influences where settlements can be founded or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

>>161744095
>not using all the modes to explore every aspect of the game
>using stale memes instead of posting substantiated content

>>161744095
Me or one of the newer ones?

I mean, I was even trying to fucking fort it up and had to fall back on adventure mode to FIX a hard crash problem.

>>161742002
They can, don't always, depends mostly on the area neighbors beforehand, and certain retired fort stuff is weird right now, the dorfs forget what the fuck to do besides stand around and bullshit in meeting areas/taverns/on their beds.

Fuckers in Towns wander around, go to wells, head to the library, stop by the tavern, just go for fucking walks and shit.

>>161747462
I just don't like adventure mode.

It removes crafting, doesn't let you travel at night by yourself and I always run out of patience before I get anywhere.

>>161747462
>fucking
>fuck
>bullshit
>Fuckers
>fucking
>shit
That's a lot of cursing for one post.

Are you ok?

>>161747995
>add your own crafting reactions to adv mode
>gen a world without bogeys
BAM, your problems are gone.

>>161747995
>not being strong enough to defeat boogeymen
Weak

bume

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>>161748207
Was reading a lot of greentext dumps so my brain is in full "kek nigga why the fuck did you grab 4 giant millipedes to eat instead of the apples or beans?" mode.

>>161747995
Sounds like a you problem, rather than an adveture mode problem.

You make a fort to be a place where things happen.

You make an adventurer to go see things happen in other places, and try to make them happen too.

You read legends to check out stuff you may have missed.

You do this to get interesting stories and whatnot, this isn't a city management game, it isn't a farming sim, it isn't a building game, frankly it isn't much of a game at all right now.

No, it's a story generation engine.

If bogeymen had more variety and logic behind them I'd love to fuck with them, right now it's "I feel like trying to play a low end peasant who just wants to see family in the next town" level threat or annoyance at most.

>>161751794
I wonder if the spirits in the myth release will replace bogeys entirely, or if bogeys will remain a separate category.

In the latter case, I hope they only appear in cursed biomes. If they become tied to biomes, they should probably also start appearing in fort mode, attacking dwarves who stray too far from the entrance without company.

I try the newest DF version, what kind of mod should I use to replace these number with somewhat understandable symbols guys, I try the forum but like all of them are outdated

>>161753567
If you can't find tilesets you don't deserve them

Do any of you guys keep up with the latest development progress?

I haven't played DF in over 6 months, and I'm hearing about all this "artifact" stuff just now.

Could someone please explain to me what exactly an "artifact" is, what they are going to be used for, and how they relate to toady's plans for implementing magic?

>>161753691
please i just download the game for the first time

>>161753784
Fine

Here's the phoebus tileset https://github.com/DFgraphics/Phoebus/tree/Phoebus-43.05

>>161753973
>/dfg/- the tsundere board

>>161753756
ples respoond

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>>161753567
>>161753691
>>161753784

>>161753756
artifacts are the items created during a mood. Now they're being used as a sort of "prize" with adventurers going out to quest for fabled artifacts or take them from others, by force or by bribing. Artifacts will play a key role in worldgen with constant swtiching of hands and what not. No idea what Toady plans to do with magic at all, except that Deities will probably become more involved in the world and artifacts instead of just object of worship and making vaults. My sources are my ass and my memory so find the rest out yourself.

>>161753973
thank pham
>>161754423
oh c'mon

>>161754502
That's helpful, thanks

So the "artifacts" he was referring to are the same old things that a dwarf would make after taking over a building, but now some of them will be available at worldgen?

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>>161753190
S'troof

>>161753567
>mod
>replace numbers with understandable symbols
>all outdated
>numbers aren't understandable
>or numbers aren't symbols
>wat

>>161753756
Keep up... possibly?

An artifact is an item which has a special type of historical link and certain properties besides those of the base item.

Take a masterwork steel axe, pretty sharp, pretty accurate, pretty durable.

A masterwork is quality(5), artifact is quality(6), twice as sharp, at least twice as accurate, literally indestructible, currently they will usually have some random artwork and decorations on them, sometimes really weird shit like pictures of the dude making an axe on the axe which has other pictures of itself, fully recursive mindfuckery and shit, will get a name at creation instead of just being a «Steel Battle Axe» with pictures some dorf put on it and aluminum studs, it is Razotkir, Raptormerged, with images of the king of the dwarves, and a dragon being struck down by it put on it before it happened apparently, and rings of diamond spikes and nether cap inlay.

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>>161754809
Except now you'll have random fuckers in world-gen naming their axes, mooding weird shit, declaring the pants of a high priest to be holy, and so forth, with people hunting them, aware of them, and all sorts of shit around that.

>>161720464
I agree about armor costs, but not for the same reasons. Armor has been rendered near-useless by the force translation update. Attacks that would previously have been entirely nullified can now cripple a creature through joint damage. One of the side effects of this is that armor is less useful for small creatures, and becomes less useful as the gap between the sizes of creatures in combat increases; a large creature that connects with a fully armored small creature will transfer a lot of force to the creature's joints, and incapacitate it regardless of how much of the initial damage was stopped by armor. But a smaller creature will transfer much less force to a much larger creature, rarely even enough to generate a "twists the X" message without any further damage. If armor costs were to be lowered, it ought to be because of how unlikely it is to serve its function for the creatures most likely to need it.
As for armor vs shield skill costs, that's probably fine. Armor user only lessens the encumbrance of armor, reducing movement speed penalties. It doesn't make armor any more likely to protect the user or affect the use of any other skills.

tbc

>>161754809
Holy shit.

In this post, both the tileset and the style of writing says "Tilesetanon", but the pic name says "not Tilesetanon".

I am confus.

>>161755054
There's another, much bigger, problem with armor, that thankfully the elephant man's manager didn't know about in the first tournament.
http://bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=4843

The most important bit from that report:
>DF armor volume, armor thickness, and armor weight is linearly proportional to the size of the body part on the race for which it was designed.
>DF tissue thickness is proportional to the cube root of the body part size.
>DF body part size is linear with the overall creature body size.
>Clothing and armor was "balanced" for human-sized creatures.
>Therefore, giant creatures such as ogres or the deity impersonating demons who wear clothing have super-thick clothing that is extremely heavy. This thickness exceeds the penetration amounts on the unmodded weapons - the clothing is thicker than the length of a spear or pike! The weight prevents the creatures from moving around normally unless they have high Armor User skill.

Had the elephant man been wearing a robe and a leather helmet there would've been no hope that any other creature in the tournament could have damaged him at all. So armor is disproportionately effective for creatures larger than normal playable races, and becomes perfectly effective no matter its material at very high body sizes. These are problems that should be addressed before the next tournament, but it's not clear what the solution should be. I invite discussion.

>>161755005
How much adamantine did that take to make?

>>161755251
Holy shit

So, what can we do?

No clothing or armor for creatures that surpass a certain size?

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>>161755005
tl;dr:
>This is adamantine. All adamantine is of the highest adamantine. On the adamantine is an image of adamantine in adamantine. The adamantine is adamantine. The image relates to the adamantine of adamantine in the early spring of 134.

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>>161755251
I've said this before and I'll say it again: this isn't a problem. It makes sense that giants would make their clothes out of thicker fabric than normal-sized humans.

Just like the bites of most arthropods can't pierce our clothing, the attacks of normal-sized humans shouldn't be able to pierce the clothing of giant creatures.

It's as simple as that, and not a bug. "Muh balance" isn't an argument. Reality isn't balanced.

>>161754783
yep, other races will build them too now, so even smaller worlds will be stocked anyway with hundreds or thousands of them

>>161755770
I mean, that's the obvious direction to go, but it seems like an unfun solution to turn to when we're talking about ways to increase build diversity and make the tourney more fun (not that it wasn't a lot of fun the first go around). Maybe an inbetween-solution would be scale armor and clothing costs with creature size, using humans as the baseline, reducing costs for small creatures who are getting paper-thin armor and increasing costs for larger creatures (dramatically in the case of the extreme end of the spectrum) who are getting breastplates as thick as walls. If the costs were high enough for large creatures that it took really judicious point saving between rounds to be able to put together that full-coverage invincibility it might not be problematic. I mean if a guy running an elephant man manages nickel and dime his points well enough to survive and buy an elephant man-shaped copper fortress by the last round, then maybe he deserves it? If nothing else, we should at least talk about limiting/banning pieces that offer huge coverage and protection for next to no cost on the largest creatures, i.e. robes, cloaks and dresses. We can hopefully brainstorm a better solution for the rest of the pieces.

A made a giant with iron armor and no skills fight a human with iron armor and a steel two-handed swords, both had no skills.

The armor didn't stop the weapon and the human won the fight.

So even if armor for large weapons is thicker, weapons of superior materials will still be able to go through them with no problems.

>>161757110
armor for large creatures

Are Halberds any good?

always wanted to try to make a halberd squad

>>161755990
definitely
When you get to the cave of a dragon, you dont complain that his scales are tougher than steel, you knew this from before, so you'll have to plan something accordingly to kill him, maybe something space oriented, like dropping a pillar on him or something
Its up to the adventurer to form a strategy to kill his target, even if they have logical resistances like this
You are pissed about elephant man's armor on the march to your city?
Put itching powder in their armors while they sleep, or while you are at it, poison
If you dont, remember that elephant people could kill your whole race anyway by brute force and size

>>161757620
Dwarves can't wield them

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>>161755337
So goddamn much... and it wound up being a goddamn MAUL, can't even give it to a hammerer.

To be fair I had been abusing the minecarts thing to make more so I just let him keep going back to the stockpile to planepacked it up.

>>161755112
It was a different time man.

>>161755891
>dark hair
>dark eyes
>strong nose
>lush beard
Oh baby, think the missus is gonna have to learn how to knit now.

>>161755990
You're talking about "fabric" that's literally meters thick. There's no such thing, or even anything like it, IRL or in game. You could almost make an argument that metal armor might be possible, but even then we're talking about chainlinks thicker than mature tree trunks, and metal plates that would take foundries on a scale that would be difficult by modern technological standards. And then that armor would somehow have to support its own weight without deforming and shearing.
We're not just talking about "thicker fabric than normal-sized humans," we're talking about a jaguar leather tunic as tall as a single story house when laid down flat on the ground. We're talking about garments of dimensions that would have to be magical or to even maintain their structural integrity. We're talking about a jute fiber sock that would need to be designed by an architect and constructed over a period of weeks by a team of engineers and then blessed by a goddamn wizard to exist at all. If you think any of that makes sense you're delusional.

this fucking imageboard wont let me pooooost

>>161758461
Well

Didn't Toady say something about altering the level of magic in the world or something like that in the future

Maybe in a fully magical world it could exist

>>161758461
So basically, until the myth arc and its magic make giant fabric possible, you suggest that the large creatures wear nothing at all?

Because logically, if the fabric of a gigantic creatures clothing is the same as for ordinary humans, it would tear so easily that it would be practically impossible to move around in.

>>161757839

Then we need larger dwarfs

When will crossbreeding be implemented?

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>>161757648
Hell, I start salivating because my dragons literally have stronger than steel bones and scales, though they also have a habit of pretending to be gods and taking over towns, participating in races and shit, being really chill, and then I walk in and suddenly all the statues are superheated until they explode, which would suck for the poor fuckers living there if they hadn't also been superheated and whatnot first.

Got good at making them face a direction that doesn't roast everyone for the most part.

>>161759245
Actually some dwarves should be able to wield them, the largest dwarves would even be able to wield them with one hand, but because of a bug dwarves can't wield them.

>>161757620
In my experience halberds are pretty great.

Mod their size requirements for wielding so dwarves can use them, then add them to the dwarves' civilization entity so they can craft them, and you're all set for making a halberd squad.

>>161759946


Well thats a bummer

>>161759332
>>161757648
>>161755990
>>161758461
Big people get big clothes, if they craft them, they take the same time to do them like we do our clothes, because yes
I tried to post several times, but gook told me my post was scam
I'll go quicker this time

The right path to the tourny's creation points change is giving small creatures a slight buff and making two weight/size divisions
I'll explain
Making to different races be roughly equal at winning , which is what makes a fight interesting, unless you just want to see a trainwreck, gets increasibly harder the higher the size of both fighters is
Yes, you can make a platypus man fight a jaguar man if the first one is a moderate dodger, but making an ant fight a cow or a giant elephant-man(god forbids it) is pushing it too hard
To make the ant be able to fight the bull, you should buff small cretaures so much that they would be overpowered against closer-to-them-in-size creatures, the armor thing helps us realize this
Just make 2 weight divissions, with different, more adjusted and logical points, and you should be fine
If you still want unfair/impossible matches, just make the winner from fly divission fight the winner of heavy-weight, and its all solved

>>161760640
isnt this a repost

>>161758930
I'm not suggesting that. Garments' thickness shouldn't scale linearly with body size, and there are points in between a mail shirt thicker than the height of anyone you know and completely naked. Logically, many giants in a fantasy world probably would be naked. They're intelligent but they're not civilized, and their only interactions with civilization are to pillage and plunder and destroy. They don't NEED pants, and acquiring and maintaining them would be such a massive effort that the industries of entire hamlets would have to be devoted to it even if the physical properties of the materials were fudged to allow the clothing in DF. But if, say, a rhino man population ends up in civilized society, wearing heavily reinforced clothing of otherwise normal material isn't a crazy prospect. Maybe it would wear out more quickly, use more material, etc, but it's not like every day use is going to destroy it outright.

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Roll for your next fort

0 : Embark in an Evil Biome
1 : Surface dwellers, start with no miner
2 : Invasion, start with All weapon/military dwarfs
3 : FPS Death, start with 30 cats(you're not allowed to butcher them)
4 : Aristocracy, embark with all social dwarfs
5 : Hermit mode, 1 dwarf competent in all labor needed to start a fortress, kill the rest upon embark
6 : Elf Embark, you may only use wood
7 : You may only use copper metal
8 : You're not allowed to use traps
9 : You may not trade power leveled crafts(stone/wood/bone crafts etc).

Dubs : Set titan requirements to zero in addition to using whatever number from above list is the number

Trips : Use dubs, the number from the list and you set siege requirements to zero

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>>161760736
Because I finished this.
(should I add % of wages made for each creature and recommenced occupational position like observation, supply train, mining (oh Gee I wonder who suits that) and fire line guard?)

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>>161758461
Giant clothing is obviously made from the hair and leather of giant animals. Or possibly the giants themselves.
Not that this invalidates anything you said. "Giant hair" sounds pretty magical, and the clothing like giants wear should be a huge undertaking for smaller creatures to manufacture even if they got their hands on suitable materials.

>>161760571
Incidentally, the way to defeat an elephant man army is make a deal with the elves: you'll declare a moratorium on tree-cutting if they take interest in the fact that elephants literally eat trees and fuck that shit up like it's their goal in life.

Then once they are both weakened, send in the axe lords and xbow squads.

>>161760998
Clothing is one thing, but having done A LOT of little tinkering modding to get a bunch of interesting battles and shit, the prepare/recover thing, and removing scratch attacks, are like the first two things to get better fights.

Size --- Prepare --- Recover
- 20k ------ 5 ------------- 1 ---
30k -------- 4 ------------- 1 ---
45k -------- 3 ------------- 1 ---
60k -------- 3 ------------- 2 ---
75k -------- 3 ------------- 3 ---
95k -------- 2 ------------- 3 ---
120 -------- 2 ------------- 4 ---
175 -------- 2 ------------- 5 ---
250+ ------ 1 ------------- 5 ---

Tiny creatures have to get closer to attack, but are able to respond afterwards faster, dodging, lining up again, etc.

Middleweights still need to close some but recover quick.

Heavyweights start to land attacks earlier but take longer to ready another.

Ultraheavies are gonna hit you way before your swing lands, but take forever to follow up.

Tinker with shit some and it should be workable.

>>161760571
>a Shadow of the Colossus type game where a lone ant fights farm animals and humans
Is it bad that I kind of want this?

>>161763120
I would play it. SotC was my jam.

>>161755251
This. This this this. How fix?

>>161763120
m88, DF is advancing in that very same direction, and in the future you'll be able to toggle stuff in gen mode to make it happen
But we are talking about arena matches. In adventure mode, you can think about on how you'll kill the colossus, but in AI comabt, unfortunately, as of now, they just ram into each other, and hit until someone is dead
>>161763507
see my previous post>>161760571

>>161757110
I just checked this as well and can confirm that superior material weapons can effectively get through giant creatures' supersized garments now. It's not a total fix, but it's enough of a palliative that we might not need any severe restrictions for it to be workable in the tournament.

Is it possible to load a mine cart with a cage loaded to the brim with dogs or bears and then propel it on crash course with invaders for extreme damage and dog/bear shrapnel?

asking because ive heard you can do all sort of fun stuff with carts and ive yet to start dabbling in that area yet

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>>161764248

>>161764248
Sort of. If the minecart's going fast enough when it hits a natural barrier, building, construction, or another object of suffiicient mass it will eject its contents. If those contents are containers (such as cages), and those containers are still moving fast enough, and then hit a natural barrier, they'll also eject their contents. The best way to do this is to collide a fast minecart with a fortification, which then slings cages of critter at a row of fortifications, which then turns the animals into projectiles aimed at whatever is on the other side of the fortifications. This is likely to kill every animal ejected in this way, so it probably will only be 1/3rd as awesome as you imagine.

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>>161765264
The trick here being to skip the cages step and start with dead animals!

>>161765264

Well i wont know until i try

guess its going to be the goal of my next fort

>>161765490
Lifehacks, DF style.
>tired of your ducks skidding across the ground and exploding into pieces every time you fire them at a troll?
>try this simple trick to increase the effectiveness of your duckshot by at least 300%!

>>161765654
Godspeed anon. Post results.

bote anon is kill

>>161766375
And with him the botes

>>161766375
who was phone

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>>161766375
>>161766643
Oh shit guys, I hadn't noticed. I hope he's okay.

Don't worry, I'll still post gote until Toady adds gotes to the game so we can have real goting.

>>161766759
Dog was fone but call went through to bote after sunked.

>>161765894
As much as I hate the whole "here's a lifehack, next time you turn on the stove, see if the little light there is on rather than smushing your face against it" shit, dorfhacks fits here.

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>>161766375
>>161766643
>>161767132
I shall continue on his spirit until he returns.

I'll post bote until toady adds botes and we can have real fishing in the game

I did some tests

I made a weapon that has the same properties of a two-handed sword, but it's double the size of a normal two-handed sword, I've called it "huge sword".

I'm great with names.

Anyway, here's the raw http://pastebin.com/pqpeD3cy

Out of 100 rounds, the human with the huge sword won 48 times and the human with the two-handed sword won 52, they both had no armor and no skills.

With grand master weapon skill, the human with the huge sword won 50 times and the human with the two-handed sword 50.

It seems both weapons are equal.

The next tests will be with steel weapons and armor.

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>>161770581
>huge sword

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Meet Dirlu, he's a simple goblin, with simple tastes who only dreams of being counted among the best of warriors.

>>161772912
Try to not get your wounds infected

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>>161773169
He's probably going to die before any of that sets in.

To achieve his dream we will begin with the wholesale slaughter of his hometown.

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I just got to my civ's capital and this is the scene I'm greeted with. What the fuck is going on?

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>>161773450
Six inhabitants of the house were slain quickly with no fight. One, an engraver made a run for it but, a well timed tackle brought him to the ground. After hacking away at the engraver Dirlu's kill count now rests at 7. I think I may stop by the local mead hall for gear, this Iron great axe just isn't killing as quick as I want it to.

>>161774338
Insurrection

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>>161772912
>>161773450
>peasant
>slaughter

Good luck with that.

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>>161774702
I did a bit of investigating and it seems that a gang of saltwater crocodiles and a single troll are to blame for the massacre. Can animals really start insurrections like this?

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>>161774786
Hey, I could've made him a demigod but, where's the challenge and !!FUN!! in that.

It seems that I'm fucked for gear. So I'm just gonna load up on all the weapons and shields I can carry. Since I'm a no name scrub I also won't be able to recruit a posse of meatshields. I guess It's back to town for killin'.

>>161775170
Can you dance?
You can probably do well enough to impress someone to join you as an entertainer.

>>161774936
Not an insurrection so much as a rampage, insurrection needs someone new trying to claim the site.

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>>161775170
Night has dawned and my job just got 10x easier.

>>161776319
Didn't think about that, I hope people in the mead hall haven't heard of my deeds yet, might have to go a hamlet over.

>>161776445
Why are you killing sleeping peasants

That gives you no xp

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As annoying as it is to see a dwarf stand in a tree to mine away the last tile she could have walked onto, knowing that she's just making extra work for me, it's also pretty impressive when one considers the balance it must take.

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>>161777012
Never said I was powerplaying, I'm playing a gobbo peasant on an island swarming with humies for armok's sake.

>>161776445
I travel north to another hamlet to try and recruit meatshields using my nonexistent talent. In the meadhall I proceed to weave a tale of how I straight up murdered a dude, they were not impressed but, I can't give up.

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>>161778302
Obviously it seems like entertaining my way to a posse isn't going to work. I will have to use some of my more practical skills to get some street cred. Looks like the slaughter of Knightgleam will have to wait.

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>>161780446
These dumb motherfuckers are passed out at midday. Glad I chose this and not the criminals.

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>>161781262
I've made a terrible mistake

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>>161781480
After being paralyzed Dirlu still managed to snap and bite at the leader, he even managed to get a nice chunk of meat off the head but, it looks like this is the end for the suicidally insane gobbo.