/rlg/ - Roguelike General

>>149306005
FIRST FOR KILL ALL MU FAGS

>>149306338
sorry did not mean mummy fags by the way

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I WISH FOR A NEW FREE ROGUELIKE

>>149307046
did u play shadowofworm

>>149306724
The devs removed jumping a while back

>>149307145
>worm

>>149307214
Ru is still an option you know

nth for still missing dicks, mumo etc

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>>149306724

>>149307046
Granted, but there is only one playable race, human, and all others are locked behind a subscription paywall. And only two classes; fighter and mage. And manual skill training is also locked behind the paywall

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Super secret boss nigga enemy in Demon.

What is it? It's high in the tower and you can only get it if you have enemy sense.

>>149307852
It's the dev's self insert, a kitsune with an ectoplasm like fireball.

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>>149307707
Oh anon. A work of art, surely.

>>149307707
CROPPING GOD

O
P
P
I
N
G

G
O
D

>>149305973
What do you even want NPCs to do? If they aren't enemies to overcome, there doesn't seem to be a point in their existing.

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>>149307980
I find it hard not to believe.

>>149307980
Disgusting.

>>149307852
I found a level 29 Bigfoot on Tower 15 but he mentioned that one. Maybe it's satan. Or santa
>>149307980
lmfao

>>149307980
The ferrets are normal enemies.

>neqoxec will be added as a playable species in your lifetime
>neqoxec will be removed as a playable species in your lifetime

Is it possible to reverse the Living Trump random teleport mutation?

>>149310501
Use the cure mutation service in Zul.

>>149310690
So you can just spam Living Trump as a spell until you get controlled teleport? Want to know because I want to do an astral guide + dimension door combo.

>>149310880
Yeah. It's one of those spells where it seems little thought went into how it's actually used.

>>149311250
The more I play this game the more I discover half-assed things like that. Good for me I guess, thanks anon.

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Doing shoals as an octopode is a breath of fresh air from all other meleedudes
Now i'm in a bit of a pickle, i don't know how to spend my money. Anything good here aside from the >Ring of fun ? I don't have nearly enough !curing to want to wear it

>>149309147
What if it's Elvis?

>>149311757
Get the Ring of Shadows. Umbra is really nice.

>>149311757
Shadows is the only one I would buy.

>>149311867
>>149311962
Alright, what do i swap it with? Slaying or one of the dex rings?

>>149311765
What if it's your mom

>>149312019
Nevermind, did some swapping and the dex rings only gave me one extra EV, thanks for the help

>>149311757
make sure you buy any bad un id'd shit too if its cheap like that inaccuracy

>>149312286
I don't think there's any non-artifact amulet that could replace the one i have, it's amazing
Btw i found the staff of wucad mu very early on, is it a good idea to transition to full caster for extended and ziggs?

>4 scrolls of aquirement
Praise gozag
If i already have all the books, wands and rods i'd want, what do i wish for? More money?

>>149315751
>all the books, wands and rods i'd want

you can acq weapon/armor if you have anything that isn't great there, unless you're doing Tm shit

gold acq is good for gozag i think

>>149315751
Jewelry or armour.

is corruption of champions a roguelike

>>149315976
>>149316023
>Large shield of rF+
>Ring of wizardry
>Hat of MR+
>830 gold
What a shitshow

>>149316357
hat of MR is good tho

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How do I learn to read in Shadow of the Wyrm?

Please respond.

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>>149316412
Well, yeah, but i expected more
On another note, i finally ID'd this thing, and now i'm sad

>>149316143
no

>>149316357
Large shield of rF+ is pretty gud. You're a pode, right? You'll probably want to get to 25 shields.

>>149316732
Yeah, but it's going to be a long while before i get there. A 40/40/30 octopode would be fucking bananas now that i think about it

>>149317009
Definitely something for extended, but something you'll want all the same.

>>149316557
>speed

but that's literally the best brand

why you sad, nigga?

>>149317009
wait are you or are you not OpTm

shields work if you're using statue or lichform but are melded by dragon/bladehands

>>149317517
Because it would take me a shitload of exp to use it effectively. Maybe i'll keep it for pan, but for now i need exp to hit dudes better
>>149317902
OpMo that just got statue form online. Funnily enough i also have dragon form available, but i'm not planning on using it until i get more UC

>>149317517
He was talking about getting a hat of Mr+ from acquirement.

>>149318265
if you are going to use dragonform don't bother investing in shields, and especially don't spend 25 levels worth of xp on them

>>149318440
He won't be shifted all the time. Many fights will end with just a shield and a tentacle.

>>149318502
yes but if he's going to be shifted *some* of the time he's better off spending that xp on other things (dodging, fighting, haste if he has it...)

>>149318673
He also mentioned he has statue form, which benefits heavily from shields. Each form has a purpose, and he needs to be flexible. The exp is not wasted on shields. He merely gives it up for a moment so he can push over a big dude. Same as blade hands.

>>149316464
Give the Sun Gem to Cynwise, in the first village.

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Let's all do our best in this thread too, everyone!!!

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i drew my party in elona+ for /v/'s drawthread

how the fuck do i beat gavela's robot?
he fucking keeps stacking bleed on me

and his article on the wiki seems to be updates because it doesnt mention anything about his bleed attack

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>>149320590
>i drew my party in elona+ for /v/'s drawthread
you done good, anon

>>149320590
>the bell
10 out of fucking 10

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Holy fucking shit should I

>>149321361
That corrode will greatly reduce the benefit of the slaying. -4 from corrode, ignoring defenses, effectively reduces the slaying down to one. You will be getting hit a lot as an ogre. The only situation where I "might" wear that is against an enemy with banish/teleport other. Other than that, it is probably bad and will lead to many faults.

>>149321361
>using things with *corrode

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>>149320590

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>>149321963

>>149321361
A A A

ALWAYS
AWEAR
ASLAYING

>>149321695
>>149321717
Oh well, I'm sure I'll find a useful ego robe

There's also 2 steam dragons a few levels up

>>149321695
-tele doesn't do anything about banish anon

>>149322378
I was more talking about the mr+++ and then the -tele for teleport other.

It also might be useful for getting past roxanne if you see her.

>>149322378
I'm pretty sure he means the MR+++

>>149322248
Any resists are great. If you could find a randart with rPois that would be superb.

>>149322064
Never trust a fairy.

>every single time i wear-id my first amulet it's a fucking amulet of harm

why does this even exist

>>149324861
Its secretly really fucking good.

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There is nothing sneaky about this.

>>149324861
Because it's Lasty's baby. Even though everyone thinks it's garbage and he knows that.

>>149324926
Explain your thinking.

>>149325035
why the drain even
just curse it like all other badjewelry

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>>149324960
Found this not even 20 steps away from the previous armour

>>149325071
It's a secret

>>149325071
I've only used it twice, but the power boost is immediately noticeable and incredibly potent. It was on a deep elf conjurer, and it let him do dirty things. Battle orb + IMB let him 2hko dyaks and absolutely melt everything else with just darts. I ended up faulting hard, but it would have happened without the amulet. Were I to use it again, I'd wear it on a tankier mage. A draconian, perhaps. You ONLY wear it if you can use the power (ranged only, sorry tablords), and have ways to mitigate things like ruks and bolts. Very dangerous to wear, but I think that it is absolutely worth it.

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>find shovel/pick
>immediately go graverobbing
>die horrifically every time
>repeat ad nauseam

I have a problem.

>>149325160
Because then the hypothetical optimal player (which doesn't exist ever, I might add- no matter how much tavern slobs like to pretend it does) might put it on when attacking from range and then swap to something else in melee.
God forbid!
>>149325426
Yeah, if you are a conjurer it can be usable for a time, same with an archer. I have used it on a MiFi^Oka and a DrCj^Sif to decent effect, but the thing is still crap almost all the time and doesn't need to drain players just to piss them off.

>>149325791
okay easy solution
autocurse, like obsidian axe

even easier solution
remove the fucking garbage

>>149325925
I have this wild and wacky solution:
Have it spawn cursed like amulet of inaccuracy and do nothing when removed.

Bizarre, I know.

>>149325071
>essentially reduce your hitpoints
>in a game where if you're losing any significant HP you're losing anyway
>in exchange for significant no-questions-asked slaying

Not saying it's a good concept or good execution fun-wise but it is a very useful item.

>>149325791
Were I to use it again, I would only take it off for the vaults. Too many bolts for it to be a reasonable equip. I'd love to abuse it with shatter, tornado, or disaster area. Still though, I'm not sure I would ever wear it over a +5 reflection amulet, spirit shield or a Regen/mRegen amulet.

>>149326023
what if it didn't spawn at all? i really like that idea

>>149325791
>the hypothetical optimal player

Oh man, don't even start with that. Those Tavern guys sometimes.

>we need to remove the orb run because the optimal move is to go back to each floor and dig out a straight line to the nearest staircase

>>149326023
Or do nothing when worn, and rename it to "amulet of nothing".

>>149326025
HP is the single most important stat on crawl

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>/rlg/ calling for the removal of supposed bloat
THEY CALLED ME THE HERO, THE HERO OF PAN.

BUT WHY SHOULD I SAVE THEM, WHEN THEY STAND FOR NOTHING.

>>149326247
i bet you bitched about item destruction's removal too

fuck off

>>149326247
>protoshitter is a bloat fetishist
Who would have guessed?

>>149326467
I really enjoyed its removal. It added nothing but tedium. I just find it funny that people actively want a decent item gone while also pining for old stuff like clubstabs. Where is the line drawn?

>>149326562
>>protoshitter is a bloat fetishist

What an erotic sentence.

>>149326645
>I really enjoyed its removal. It added nothing but tedium.
BUT MUH DND

>>149327084
I have never played a campaign where the DM bothered with itemdest.

>>149327225
>I have never played a campaign
fixed

>>149327225
Well aren't you lucky?

>>149327365
That sucks, anon. D&D can be quite fun.

>>149327595
so i've heard

but it requires friends

>>149326247
>>149326645
The problem, I think, is that additions don't compensate for the removals.

So when something shitty is added, it makes people think
>why is THIS okay, but [insert one of many cool and/or interesting things that were removed] had to go?

If there wasn't a long history of removals, people probably wouldn't feel so strongly about it.

You can't just ignore the context of a situation, anonymous.

>>149327879
Most of the removals have been good. Some meaningless. Many bad. A lot are justified, or are actually compensated for in some way.

>>149328393
Meaningless removals are bad removals.

>>149328541
A meaningless removal is something like "We removed grey rats. Other rats can be used in their place and they really didn't bring all that much to the table."

Is there a way to make it so Cataclysm NPCs don't have 20x the health the player has? I want to fuck around with a Mad Max idea maybe. More humans, less other crap. Nearly impossible to live off the land.

>>149328923
They literally did that though

>>149329025
Yes, and literally nobody cares.

>>149326645
I swear on me OgEn, don't you talk shit about clubstabs.

>>149329182
Someone cared enough to remove them

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simple ebin

>>149330008
>doge
HAHA XD

>>149328996
Just like you, Cataclysm NPCs only die if their torso or head are 0.

Yeah, this means their arm or foot health can reach zero, but they can still hit you perfectly with their guns in the next turn.

>>149325791
>the hypothetical optimal player
i don't know about you but i would sure as hell immediately take off "Harm whenever I saw monsters with strong ranged attacks or maybe whenever melee ones were about to start hitting me
but because it has *drain I can't do that so I just never wear it instead.

>>149333024
>but because it has *drain I can't do that so I just never wear it instead
Pretty much the issue.
The devs are so fearful of the impact of this TOB bogeyman that they make stupid decisions like "Harm having *Drain.

>>149333024
I wouldn't. Fucking pussy

>>149333836
I would just have it reduce your regen or something. So that way when you want to play defensively you take it off.

Either that or have a "fleshbind" effect where it is locked on for x turns.

>>149333024
I don't like amulet of harm.
Reducing your max HP to 80% is bad.
Basically, you're forced to get frail 2.
Hell, in 0.18 it's frail 3.

Remember when you survived bad situation with only 20 HP left ?
With the help of amulet of harm, you don't.
It's a trap, almost on par with Maxwell's coffin.

By the time you can wear it safely, you don't need it. There are others, better amulets.

>>149334918
What I'm saying is that I *would* wear it if it was possible to take it off in dangerous situations and get that 20% hp back.

>>149334984
pussy

>>149334918
But you do 30% more damage. If you have reasonable ranged attacks, you can usually get 2+ attacks off before an enemy can reach you. Is good offense a reasonable way to keep yourself alive? Or do we follow conventional crawl wisdom? It needs more testing within the thread.

>>149335537
the best defense is a good offense

I'm staying at some relatives' house. Place is positively INFESTED with cockroaches. I saw 5 just going to the bathroom, spent a good hour or so autistically killing them with some random hair product and later one of my shoes. One of them, the largest, was the noisiest fucking cockroach in the world. It fucking chirped and you could hear the thing walking jesus christ

I was suddenly reminded of crawl giant cockroaches and realized I'd pussy out as soon as I saw a giant insect

>>149330008
>doge meme

Don't know if anyone cares, but Doge was a title for an Italian ruler, so it might not actually just be a meme ring.

>>149335854
kek, I autistically hunt down bugs too
stay safe anon

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>>149335854
It was issuing an ultimatum to you anon.

>YOU THERE
>Hunter!
>Turn back at once!
>This house, dirty and abandoned by men, is now home only to my kind.
>Leave now, lest the hunter face the hunt!

Guys, what if I told you I know what the developers are planning next for DCSS, and that the answer will shock you harder than any dumb clickbait article?

Removing yaks and replacing them with sheep

>>149336437
They're basically the same enemy anyway.

>>149336437
when will they remove sheeps' ability to spread sticky flame

it's bloat

>>149336596
i think you mean
>when will they remove sheep

>>149337850
i think you mean
>when will they remove she (and all other references to gender)

>>149337936
Exactly, it's 2016 already.
There's no excuse for such nonsense.
Fucking shitlords.

>>149335854
be glad they arent the flying ones. those are a fucking menace.

fist sized roaches dive bombing your face isn't a good time.

>>149338234
CURRENT YEAR

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Okay, who keeps saying that baileys have good loot

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Aw jeez

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So, uh, I have gossamer, barnacled, and have cleared orc and Dungeon, where should I go next? Just playing around for fun, never ascended, got a good run on this guy.

>2015+1
>He isn't playing odyssey of the summoner
what's that?
Even after the food mantis too hard for you anon?

Having infusions as consumables is unfair?

>>149307046
Your wish is but granted.
but the roguelike is based off anima.

>>149340330
Depths or Vaults 1-4. Then abyss 3/vaults 5/slime for your third rune depending on gear but probably abyss

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Will I ever cease to miss dicksman.
I don't believe I ever will.

>>149340570
develop an addiction for tome4

>>149340731
That's not what dck would have wanted.

>>149340565
Alright, thanks.Time to go slap things with my anti-magic +7 whip, and +8 fire dragon armor. BNeen enchanting them both myself, got armor from volcano and whip from trog.

>>149340785
That's the only way to stop missing him

>>149340330
For stuff like theese, press ctrl o for the stuff you cleared and didnt clear yet, its much easier..

I unironically play vanilla bagel

>>149341362
Oh, cool. thanks.

>>149341539
I think its ctrl o, i forgot some of the shortcuts, i havent played dcss in a while

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>>149341568
This one?

Also, Mara is irritating, killed her, then her illusions start summoning illusions that are trying to clone me. Not dead, but irritated.

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>still playing MuMo, splatting around D;6 most of the time
>still having more fun than with other combinations
someone save me

>>149340853
I can't afford a plane to Spain.

>>149341791
Develop the tome4 addiction and you'll forget about him, believe me.

>tfw there will never be a spainrlg meet up

>>149341791
>will never travel across the world to join the savior's irl mumo academy

>2016
>playing roguelikes
Quality taste, my man.

>>149341974
there is no mumo irl academy
he's unemployed like all of us

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>>149320590

train up noodle-monster and hermit crab to deal with his ass.

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>>149342383

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>>149342151
Dicku would be a dead weight on society like that!!

>>149342556
It's illegal to be employed in spain m8

>>149342383
>>149342552
I want to get into Elona but I heard it's really, REALLY grindy, even more than PCB, is this true? I don't want to turn on permadeath and grind for 9001 hours and then end up dying. Speaking of dying, is the game really hard? Why do people even grind so much?

>>149342746
you grind for fun

permadeath with elona is stupid

some people will bitch at me for saying that

>>149342828
>permadeath with elona is stupid
BUT IT'S NOT A ROGUELIKE THEN ANON

>>149342923
well dicks beat it as a horse with permadeath

>>149341727
Yeah, that one

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>>149341974
>reach the mountaintop mumo monastery
>spanish qt3.14 receptionist glares at you
>weak after your travels you fall to your knees
>"I-I'm here to train with the d-dicksman!!!"
>she leaves in silence
>the temple shakes as the dick rouses from his hundred year siesta
>cue battle music

>>149343549
cringe

>>149343630
>jealous he splatted on his way to the temple

>>149343549
I've seen this picture a lot of times and only now realized his pokeball look like little mummies

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>>149343630

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Hmmm.
I already have 3 talents foolishly invested in melee (polearm, throwing, finesse).
I could definitely go for the subtlety+momentum+rapid strike, but that's so expensive.
Currently a kind of evasion/riposte character.

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>>149345486
Okay this is working out alright.

>>149325602
what game and how do you die horribly

>>149312109
Can't be, everybody's seen her.

if I want to make a roguelike, what should I use?
python or try to learn c?

>>149340570
is this loss??
ive been here so long everything just looks like loss to me now :( :(

>>149347692
>five panels
>loss

>>149335537
>But you do 30% more damage. If you have reasonable ranged attacks, you can usually get 2+ attacks off before an enemy can reach you.

The thing about Crawl is that the game's lose condition is "let your HP get to zero", and enemy damage to that HP is randomized within a range, with an effective reduction based upon your AC, EV, SH, maxHP, and occasionally your resist pips.

The other thing about Crawl is that the additional offensive damage granted by things like 2h weapon vs 1h weapon, or harm vs not-harm, is typically not high enough to overcome the risk incurred by exposing your character to countless additional "maybe get killed" rolls over the course of a game.

You won't lose Crawl because you killed that orb guardian in 6 hits instead of 5.

You *will* lose Crawl, many times over, if that Knife Ear over there hits you for 130 damage instead of 100 or a block/miss.

Amulet of Harm as it exists in current versions is effectively "amulet of guaranteed red drain", or in other words: "amulet of making sure you have to burn ?identify on amulets until you're strong enough to survive a deep drain".

>>149347484
Unity

>>149348512
Amulet of harm can be useful for beefy hitdudes who haven't found a good weapon yet. XL 11 fighter with plate and shield, still stuck with +0 war axe? Harm's the shit. I've yet to test it with Uskayaw, but I imagine it could have good synergy since his piety rises and fall quickly with damage dealt.

>>149348873
>XL 11 fighter with plate and shield, still stuck with +0 war axe?
Nuking your above-average defenses so you can kill slightly faster isn't the best approach to that situation.

>>149347152
ADOM, Shadow of the Wyrm, etc. Basically any game with graves and the ability to dig them up.

>>149349002
It is in my experience. Tanking a lot but failing to kill quick enough tends to kill me a lot often than having insufficient defenses with a FooFi.

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AHHHHH

>>149349172
>Gothmog
>Lungorthin

ribs in beace :DDDD

>>149349172
The fuck is that thing supposed to be?

>>149349061
>It is in my experience.
This line of discussion will only lead to meaningless and embarrassing profile linking.

>Tanking a lot but failing to kill quick enough tends to kill me a lot often than having insufficient defenses with a FooFi.
War axes have 11 base damage. This is enough to get you through lair and orc. If you're finding that low damage output is crippling your Fi characters before that point, there's likely a different problem going on with skilling or positioning.

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Fugg :DD

This Edain species is Beoring as hell.
Not even the !!!!! give me joy any longer.

>>149349864
Oh wow I was wielding the wrong weapon. Didn't even notice. I guess that explains the dying thing.

>>149349864
Beor is the hardest house to ascend, so good luck.

>>149349361
Who said anything about crippling? The best defense in Crawl is a good offense, which is especially true for axes, and with a little luck you'll have solid defensive equipment early on. Find a plate of rP in D:5 and you'll want to use it, and at that point defense is never the issue. Amulet of harm affects the damage you take after GDR and AC, not before, so the only things you have to watch out for are early centaurs and ogres and such. There are better amulets for every level, that's true, but one is not always so lucky.

>>149350701
>The best defense in Crawl is a good offense
The best defense in Crawl is walking away.

The second best defense in Crawl is having friendly or neutral creatures onscreen to do things while you walk away.

The third best defense in Crawl is good positioning.

The fourth best defense in Crawl is preemptively using buff and escape consumables.

The fifth best defense in Crawl is preemptively landing curare.

The sixth best defense in Crawl is multilayered EV/AC/SH/maxHP/regen.

The seventh best defense in Crawl is rechargeable healing, i.e. DD wands or Elyvilon.

I'm probably forgetting to mention some things, but good offense barely makes the top 10.

>>149349361
It is much better than theorycrafting in a vacuum without anyone actually coming out with results from the game.

>>149351125
Yes yes, the best defense is playing MiBe and never otabbing and to find early wand of healing etc.. Saying good offense barely makes to 10 is retarded, anyway, to the point where I'm basically sure you're just arguing semantics because you're unable to admit that amulet of harm isn't necessarily shit. You find a battleaxe, you generally switch out your shield and waraxe, even if your defense suffers, because damage kills the shit that wants to kill you.

>>149351494
Who said anything about theorycrafting in a vacuum?

This isn't the tavern, we have several resident greaterplayers.

Take the advice or don't, it's up to you.

>>149351552
>You find a battleaxe, you generally switch out your shield and waraxe
This discussion has been had several times before.

My opinion on it is that no, you don't, not in the least because if you've started with a shield then you've picked Fi specifically to have that shield and you knew what you were doing at chargen.

>defending "Harm
Lasty get the fuck off 4chan and go ruin ranged combat like you said you were going to.

>>149351849
Sometimes you want to wear plate without playing Berserker. Is it optimal? Of course not, Trog is OP. Sometimes you want to start with axe and shield because you know there's a good chance of not going to get a good 2h one until orc.

>>149336437
>remove the literal most iconic lair enemy in the game

It would be like removing mountain dwarves all over again

However, if they replace death yaks with death sheep, I will accept

>>149336437
You mean like removing sheep and reskinning yaks?

Is the robe of vines good for an Ogre doing ziggs? Or is it better to wear dragon armour and lose success rate and regen?

>>149352098
>Sometimes you want to wear plate without playing Berserker.
Playing Fi has nothing to do with wearing plate.

>>149352192
>It would be like removing mountain dwarves all over again
moment of silence for qiglaf

>>149352192
Design philosophy

Which stat would you raise as an octopode transmuter?

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today I played sil, unnethack and infra arcana and had a lot of fun
it's great to have a good taste and play only real roguelikes

>>149353178
Okay, so it has nothing to do with wearing shield either.

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>>149354643
DEX. If you are going Chei then STR, since STR doesn't softcap like DEX does.
>>149354658
>>149355173
What the fuck is this shit.

>>149352192
If they changed death yaks to black sheep or mountain goats i would actually like it

>>149355435
it's the truth from both of those anons

>>149355173
Fi begins with worse survival tools than almost every other background. If you want to win while playing melee, you have the choice of starting with trog, curare, nets, spellbooks, or a ranged weapon.

Fi's only redeeming starting advantage is that it starts with a shield. If you are picking Fi for reasons other than having a shield available before midgame, then no amount of gudvice can help you.

Fi does not start with plate. Every other background has the same chance to find plate and choice on the table of whether or not to use plate as Fi.

I'm just going to put this out there: Every argument you've presented in favour of "harm has been terrible. I award you zero points, and may Xom have mercy on your dungeon.

>>149355435
What's the softcap for dex?

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>>149352192
>>149355464
Change one of the two to rams, and give them a charge/headbutt attack.

>>149356069
It used to be 24, but now it starts gently sloping at 18 and gets steeper at 22 iirc.

>>149355907
I generally agree with you, but I'd like to point out that Fi also starts with the highest str possible outside of Be. That can be useful on certain low str races.

You also auto-id Might, which is a minor benefit.

>>149355907
Yeah, but you're some kind of winrate autist, some people don't give a shit about optimal combinations. The shield is good, who said anything else? That doesn't mean it's the sole reason to pick FooFi.

>>149356292
Yaks are slightly dangerous xp piñatas, death yaks are rape machines for that stage of the game and are incredibly bland

>>149356341
>I'd like to point out that Fi also starts with the highest str possible outside of Be.
This is true and it's a good point, but starting stat allotment is also influenced by race, and passive stat gain at levelup is only dependent on race.

Are there any races that would end up with enough strength to comfortably equip plate by Orc or so, that would actually *want* to use plate (read: not Dodging aptitude races, not EV size bonus races), as Fi start but not as book/As/Gl start?

>>149356743
Ha (yes, Ha like heavy armour), Ds, Hu to name a few off the top of my head.

That said, I think Fi is mainly a good start for the shield.

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damn, MiFi of Usk feels like even more of a tablord than MiBe

what race/classes should i start playing for extended?

>>149357287
Well, Ha has small size bonus going for them so it's probably more optimal to stick with ring/scale/dragon.

Hu and Dr, sure, I could see that.

>>149357753
*Ds

>>149357474
Yeah, Usk really rewards tabbing. Trog takes at least some judgment in how to berserk or summon broglodytes, but the best panic button Usk has is for you to tab some more.

>>149357474
>tfw in that picture
Ha, VS, and Dr are the ones I've 15 runed with and the Ha and VS were relatively painless.

>>149357882
i wonder if it'll be rebalanced before/if it goes live, really fun play style and concept but it's a bit strong. maybe just nerf the piety gain from cleaving

>>149357753
I would disagree. Ha is unique in that they are both small, and have a good armour aptitude. This let's them get insane >30/>30/>20 defenses consistently by the end of the game. Both of my Ha wins have used GDA and were in dragon armour for as much of the game as possible. And most characters would rather use a fitting *DA than plate- unless it was a very nice artifact plate.

>>149308274
Quests, companions, actual merchants (i.e. you can steal from them, get better prices at them from trades, have them turn hostile on you, etc.), competing adventurers that you can see sometimes on some floors, or whose corpses you might happen upon by chance. Hell, just controlling a party like in Guild feels a lot better, I think, than just a single character.

Does anyone remember why Lamia was removed so quickly?

>>149342746
Rather than grindy, it's ridiculously poorly balanced and designed. You can trivially finish the game in 20 minutes by starting pianist and then getting an army of silver bells to do your bidding. They attack what, 10 times I think, for every turn any other enemy takes, and can use guns. Multiple guns with gene splicing but that's not even needed. Plus they have ridiculous avoidance so they never die.

If you don't cheese, though, you'll have to grind for hundreds of hours to actually get to the second dungeon, let alone the others, and you have to have the wiki open to always make sure the enemy that just appeared at the far end of your field of vision is not 2x the dungeon level, able to kill you from where it stands in a single move.

Elona has a few fun aspects, but overall it's just plain bad. From the awful RNG distribution to the garbage level design (with regard to dungeon depth, quantity, difficulty, exp scaling, progression, etc.), to the cringeworthy """humor""" (it's not even jap humor, it's just youtube-poop-tier) to the nonexistent atmosphere, to the combat system.

It's only really worth playing with joke builds in non-permadeath-mode.

Although, while /rlg/ disagrees with this, I don't think that permadeath makes a roguelike (nor would the turn-based nature of it). Costly death, randomly generated dungeons or areas, and especially widely random loot is what defines it in my opinion.

Speaking of which, has /rlg/ played baroque? It wouldn't qualify as a roguelike if permadeath and turn-based were requirements, but it definitely plays and feels exactly like one. While it's a bad game, I think it's a good example of a roguelike without these traits.

>>149358569
>Both of my Ha wins have used GDA
GDA, on Halfling? Really?

On my three Ha morgues, none of them had higher than 21 strength. That doesn't seem like a good tradeoff for GDA unless you've made a habit of taking Str at every levelup. Mine wore FDA, StDA, and a +4 ring mail respectively.

Also, >20 SH? Really?

With halfling size penalty to medium shield skill required, you're often going to be wearing a buckler and that only results in ~15 SH by endgame.


It's possible that your approach works well, but it's clearly a bit different from how I've played the race.

>>149355907
Fi also gets a better weapon than gladiators, usually

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Is there an init setting that would allow me to immediately cancel eating whenever an enemy appears? I went from full hp to zero because of this bullshit

>>149359471
You should probably take Str at every level up as Ha since they have such high starting dex and get +5 dex from normal leveling. A HaFi will end up with 25/18 STR/DEX this way and a HaAs will end up with 20/20 for reference.

IIRC when my HaFi swapped his +10 DEX leather for a GDA he went from 20/44 to 32/32.

>>149359852
Eating is now an interruptible action in Trunk.

>>149359471
Some people just like to play tanks. And out of all the "probably shouldn't be a tank" races, Ha are probably best at it.

Positive armor, dodging and shields, and then either very high or neutral weapon aptitudes (depending on whether you want short or long blades). They generally skill fast enough that getting your shields high enough isn't too big a problem.

Now, this probably isn't as optimal as building towards stabbing or slings or whatever the fuck Halflings are actually good at, but they're still better at being tanks than, say, DE.

>>149361003
>whatever the fuck Halflings are actually good at
From the learndb:
>halfling reasons[1/1]: you like AC/EV/SH
That's what they're good at, being tanks. Tankiest bastards in the game that aren't made of stone temporarily/permanently.

>>149360451
>>149361003
I mean, looking at the Ha aptitude line, they'd probably do much better in current versions by going for a ring mail into *DA LBL dodging riposte build instead of str levelups into plate into 22 skill medium shield build.

Different strokes, I guess.

>>149361774
That's a good point. I played my Ha before the introduction of Riposte. Would have to try another using it.
Still, most *DA are not much lighter than Plate and you don't need to fully cancel out shield penalty for a shield to be usable. You still get a shitload of SH for not much penalty at 15 Shields which, with Ha apt is not hard to get.

>>149361292
Ehhhh, the lack of large shields and the HP penalty make me kind of leery about that.

>>149362635
Go play a Ha.

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>>149359852

>>149342383
what can hermit crabs do anyway?

shell races have that natural damage reduction like bells/metals

whats the big deal?

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>>149362890
Wew lad.
Great OC.

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>park war truck next to a shipwreck
>a bunch of razorclaws are nesting in it
>they're like a really angry giant lobster or something
>pretty new monster, never seen them before
>hunt a bunch of them and butcher them for tasty lobster meat
>don't want to go bad
>shut the doors of my truck and start preserving all the meat
>a razorclaw I missed wanders over
>already working on the meat, don't want to stop just to kill one razorclaw
>my truck is armored as fuck and it won't be able to get in anyway
>even if it does rip through one of the panels I have loads of extra armor and scrap steel to replace it
>razorclaw wanders into a blind spot
>ignore it and finish the meat
>go outside to kill it
>it's gone
>there's a bunch of scrap and debris around the back of my truck
>instead of trying to break through the armor and attack me it just snibbedy snabbed all of the solar panels off my truck and then left

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>>149362890

>>149359367
noob

>>149359367
I think that turn-based gameplay is one of the biggest things that makes a game classifiable as a roguelike. Take that away, and you take away the thoughtful nature of the games themselves.

>>149359367

We call it grindy not because of the irrelevant things you just mentioned.

so amulet of harm is confirmed shit right

>>149364804
What about Real time with pause?

>>149364909
yeah

>>149364909
In both design and viability!

>>149364914
What, like FTL?

>>149364914
Maybe if there were a ridiculous amount of autopause conditions, but even then probably not. I've always been under the impression that one of the defining features of roguelikes is the removal of reflex as a factor in your skill at the game. Making it run at real time in any situation takes that away again, because there's a possibility that something can happen faster than you can react to it.

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A +7 double sword this early sounds great, but i'm a troll and already have 10 UC. I guess it's not a good idea to switch given my terrible aptitudes right?

Also, at which level of UC should i switch to fighting and then dodging?

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Hm, surprised he didn't wake up

>>149364817
What irrelevant things? The fact that it is grindy? You call it grindy because it's not grindy?

>>149365520
never do weapons as a troll
at 11 UC go dodging then go fighting at a respectable ev level

>>149365139
What about TAS? One frame at a time makes it almost turn-based :^)

>>149365617
Got it, thanks dude, acceptable EV would be 20 or so?

>>149364909
I think the real debate is the strength of the Amulet of Faith. I've never used one except by accident, but I've heard that they're quite strong in certain cases.

>>149365924
That's typically what I aim for with bigger races, yeah

>>149366214
It's very nice earlygame on gods that allow you to murderize everything at the cost of piety (Makhleb, Qazlal, etc) as well as gods that grant gifts

Lategame you're cutting through so many enemies it's no longer necessary but can still be useful to certain builds

>>149366214
it can be an asset to people who go chei early, i guess

but i feel its true strength lies with gods like pakellas or sif

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>>149363231

i took a weak little hermit crab and train it.

>>149366908
>1282 cm
>9077 kg

That is one heavy crab

>>149359307
>lamia
What/who?

>>149364914
WazHack

>>149367674
snek unique

>>149359367
>all this effort
>just to produce a shitpost
Sad desu

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>>149366908

>9077 kg
>1282 cm

20011 pound crab and 465 inches

>>149359307
Was a "must-avoid"/"never fight" iirc.
Unfortunately the commit message is just "Remove Lamia", and not some multiple paragraph rant so I can't be sure why.

>>149367674
Unique Naga from 0.12 to 0.14. Replaced by Vashnia. Looking through the changelog, there actually was a lot of work put into Lamia, but she was removed with no explanation. Just "Remove Lamia"

A shame, she was pretty cool. And the devs eventually had to re-add her tile because so many players wanted to use it.

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I want bloated, grindy roguelikes to die

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>>149368716
The contents of this post and the attached file are at cross purposes.
It is jarring.

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>>149368716
Death to all false awooposters.

>>149368837
I really wanted to share this cute awoo gif but didn't want to just force it into the thread without anything, so I shitposted some truth along it

>>149369119
>gif
It's an animation with sound, famborghini.
If only we could post webms with sound here :^)

>>149362635
However their size gives a 25% bonus to EV and as a small race they get extra SH from bucklers.

They're kind of like mini minotaurs in that they're positive in every single tablord apt, except that they have some spell capability as well (+1 charms!)

>>149369260
what I posted is a gif though
see? you are blinded by bloat, who needs sound?
I only play real roguelikes with no bloat

>>149368716
i want the serpent of chaos to die

and also you, anon
i want you to die

>>149369925
but we both know that the one dying will be you, killed by the serpent

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>>149370169
git gud

>>149370382
I'm good at good roguelikes.

>>149370169
implying i will live long enough to fight the serpent<<<<<<<

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>>149370483

>>149370483
pcb is more gooder of a rougelike than crawl

>>149371510
I don't play either, both are shite

>>149371598
do you play sil?
that game isn't even fun

>>149372148
i do, it's one of the best roguelikes

>>149372148
What the fuck did you just say to me you knife eared piece of shit?
*sings a song of fury and dread*
*flanks you*
*hits you!!!!!!!*
Pshhh... nothin personell... kidd....

like a lot of people here play PCB, which repeatedly tricks me into thinking it's a good game but then I remember it's shit after playing for a little bit

>>149368030
Not an argument.

>>149372559
same goes for dcss and cdda imo desu

>>149373032
>>149372559
Yeah, definitely. Nethack and plain angband are where it's at, although nethack is simply so much better.

>>149373032
yea

>>149362890
Pretty spicy oc, i like it

I want to cure Psyche and Louise of their insanity and help Roxanne and Ribbit return to her old forms. I want to reunite Boris and Natasha. I want to take it easy with Gastronok.

>>149365607

Everything in your post was irrelevant to what Elona is. Bells, balance, humor, """finish"""" the game, RNG etc.

You really have to improve your shitposting skills and you can start by actually knowing what you're talking about.

>>149373942
>Gastronok
>taking it easy
Nigga he casts sprint.

>>149374094
Not him, but what is Elona?

>>149374317
single player mmorpg

>>149374094
Oh, so you've never played the game. I see. Good on you, you've been spared the boredom. Do avoid shitposting this intensely about something you've never experienced though.

>>149374206
Only to impress Anon-sama!

>>149374317
A very shitty roguelike.

>>149374206
And he's still slow. Taking it easy is fine and all, but sometimes you need to be able to do something without being outrun by plants.

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holy shit worst D:2 entrance ever

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>press < immediately
>this happens

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This guy slaps your loli on the ass, and slips his finger in to pop her cherry and she's enjoying it

what do?

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>Jessica drops a wand of tele, barely used
>Grinder only paralyzes me once, and fails to kill me during it
>Menkaure dies to three javelins and two tomahawks without casting pain, haste, or torment
>Joseph drops a rod of shadows after only spawning gnolls with it
>fairly good mutations thus far, including Powered by Death and Mana Shield
>mutation-chunk roulette produces Clarity, Passive Mapping, etc.
I am the luckiest Demonspawn alive.

>>149376131
Free ecks pee right down your slutty throat.

>>149376295
Wait until you get nothing but shit mutations.

Is there anything worse than savescumming? Like, is it any better than startscumming, ragequitting, or playing optimally?

>>149377227
Worse how?

>>149377540
In the sense that it is opposed to the spirit of a roguelike. Like, how pudding farming is opposed to the spirit of Nethack, or that one Blood Mage win was opposed to the spirit of Angband

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Let's see how this works out. Seems like psion could actually be made into a pretty powerful dude hitter with the right talents, plus having three casting stats to choose from helps.

>>149377871
>Psionic Speed
We /kwisatz haderach/ now.

>>149377227
>playing optimally
how is this opposed to the spirit of roguelikes
are you fucking high
also playing with spoilers is opposed to the spirit of roguelikes, it's practically savescumming because you avoid deaths that you shouldn't have

>>149377793
Sound too autistic for me. DF has the best community: every player decides how they want to play.

>>149377871
>Let's see how this works out.
Slowly. I like half-titans statwise and conceptually, but any time I play one it's like leveling in molasses on a cold day.

>>149378335
Half-titans only have a 150% penalty in my version. I also may end up trying a difference race because this starting dex is abysmal. Psions also have a cap of only 4 blows which will likely end up working against me regardless, so I'm a bit more uncertain in general at this point.

>>149378321
>every player decides how they want to play
Unless Toady decides that how they want to play is bad and wrong. For example: a few years ago, mermaid bones were really valuable. So valuable that people began to create mermaid farms. Toady was so disgusted with this that he made mermaid bones way less valuable so people would stop farming them.

Another example: Nethack 3.6.0, where puddingfarming was made pointless.

Any case in which the developers intervene or state that they would like the activity to stop, but will or cannot force it to stop themselves is an example of "going against the spirit of a roguelike".
>>149378260
>how is this opposed to the spirit of roguelikes
>are you fucking high
I don't understand it myself desu, but if it wasn't against the spirit of Crawl the developers wouldn't do so much to prevent optimal play. Since Crawl is a roguelike, optimal play must be against the spirit of all roguelikes.

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help

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>>149379493
>Any case in which the developers intervene or state that they would like the activity to stop, but will or cannot force it to stop themselves is an example of "going against the spirit of a roguelike".
>Since Crawl is a roguelike, optimal play must be against the spirit of all roguelikes.

Nigga what the fuck. The developer does not decide what constitutes the spirit of a rogue-like except as they experience it personally.

>>149379640
>speed 10

>>149379815
quasits are not speed 10

although when i died it turned out I had haste and fear

>>149379640
Use Nemelex to get more dex.
>>149379815
Nope.
http://crawl.develz.org/info/index.php?q=quasit

>>149379493
Obviously the devs decide which way the development goes. Admittedly I'd like Toady to release the source code, but he encourages modding and the community still doesn't give a fuck about what others do in their games.

>>149379794
Just as an author can dictate what a vague scene "actually means", so can a gamedev state how a game is "meant to be played".

>>149380313
I disagree strongly.
The experience is valueless without personal interpretation by the player/reader.

>>149380313
and just like nobody gives a fuck about what the author says it means, nobody gives a fuck about how the dev says to play the game

i care about the actual book and i care about the actual mechanics of the game. if you want to convey a message to me, do it through those

>>149380467
>>149380545
Our opinions are irreconsolable.

>>149380685
Irreconcilable?

>>149380768
Yes. Apologies, my spellcheck didn't catch that for some reason.

>>149380132
Too bad toady is such a massive SJW cuck.

>>149381241
go back to /pol/

here in rlg, we call people minotaurs, not cucks

>>149381347
>>>/tumblr/

>>149381241
>>149381527
Literally the mibe of 4chan posters.

>>149381241
Well, you can keep yapping on if you want to, but it's not like I'm gonna pay attention.

>>149358762
Except nobody plays Guild. What players want is to fight hordes of braindead enemies who can't even use the loot that's laying around the dungeon.

>>149381241
>doesn't get on board your weird gamergate cult
>therefore he's a 'cuck'

At least you alt-right types are so degenerate that you aren't even able to insult people properly. Let me guess, I'm a SJW cuck too, right?

>>149382631
Yeah, but people don't play guild because guild is shit, not because controlling more than one person or having more people involved in general is shit.

>>149383007
Speaking of gg, is it still going? Have they done anything? Last time I heard about it they'd made some online game reviewing site rewrite parts of their publishing guidelines in order to make them go away, and were proud as boys whose balls just dropped like it actually meant anything in practice. Most be a couple of years ago by now.

>Nikola takes me from full to dead in a single turn

Welp.