/evn/- Focus on work, not boobs

>>146047816
So what happened to exogenesis again?

where the sounds at

>>146050352
Is this fabled synchronicity at work? I was just reading http://www.yoyogames.com/blog/116

>>146051227
>This site
Well, that was surprisingly helpful.

mmm the smell of a dead general

>>146047816
what vn is that

>>146048667
dev found out he has diabeetus and got really upset

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Been working on searchable drop-down menus past couple of days. Some lists are pretty long (I think there's something like 150-ish currency options) so I figured it was worth doing. Went with a custom implementation because Safari doesn't support autocomplete atm. At least this means I can style them nicely.

You can test them live here (if you toggle "programming" there's a couple more): https://beta.storydevs.com/talent

The search options are a little buggy atm so if you just want to see how the search will function leave the options as their defaults. (I've mostly been working on performance tweaks + account stuff so this is largely similar to how it was.)

As before, use https://www.storydevs.com/reserve if you wanna reserve a profile handle and https://www.storydevs.com/mailing for subbing to the mailing list. The beta is just for live testing.

>>146056297
That's neat, but I doubt people will need so many currencies options considering they would probably take the payment in USD anyway even if they're from Afghanistan.

Man, I hope alienworks learns from their mistakes with HB and step it the fuck up for the reignition project. If they can't even code a kinetic novel competently, it makes me wonder how they'll tackle a multi-route one.

>>146056771
how many writers from HB are working on it, I wonder.
HRP demo was bottom of the barrel too (though it was a long time ago t b h, they've probably rewritten it).

>>146055403
Exogenesis.

>>146056056
>Diabeetus
Well, I don't think anyone would be too happy to hear that they have a lasting sickness anon. I just hope that they reach their deadline properly, I saw the comments on their KS and people are getting worried.

>>146056487
I agree. You could probably get away with around 10 or so options like USD, Euro, etc. There's two reasons I didn't do that: first, I don't want to have to deal with figuring out which options to include / not include. Secondly, I just like the idea of people being able look for others locally. Maybe that's better served with a "location" option, but it doesn't hurt having more options when they're easy to search.

In general I like to think in terms of how I want VNs and the associated communities to be, not how they currently are. There's probably not many VN devs who use these currencies even locally. But I want there to be, and including an option helps to meet them halfway (or at least part-way) for when they appear.

>Making a yuri game
>See that this year's filled with it
Dang. Well, this is fun.

>>146059384
Do what I'm doing and release it next year.

>>146059656
Even better, never release it at all!

>>146059656
I might release the demo around October/November.

>>146059384
You can still stand out. Try having a plot.

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Is there anything more retarded than no-name devs touting their own horns? Don't they realize if you come off as an ass and hype yourself up so much, people are going to look at your work through a fucking microscope and destroy it to pieces if you can't live up to the hype (protip: you won't)?

>>146060630
hint: you'll never stop being a no-name dev if you don't blow your horn

>>146060156
>Having a plot
Is that implying that most of the yuri this year didn't have one? I was under the impression that SV was plot heavy.

>>146060915
better hint: just like make game already so you don't have to be an internet clown "muh gaym is totally gonna revolutionize the genre guise, it will be like totally awesome and THE BEST"

>>146061026
>I was under the impression that SV was plot heavy.
haha no.
I mean, technically Starlight Vega has at least the vestiges of a plot and isn't all about school life. However, it's not very deep or involved, and doesn't really make sense (there's still a great deal of argument about whether the separate routes are supposed to be in the same universe or not, because the basic storyline doesn't add up) I would definitely not call it plot _heavy_

I'm still not sure whether A Little Lily Princess counts as a nakige or not. It's got the light-hearted first act followed by a second act where everything goes to hell, but it doesn't have the romance in the middle, the romances happen during the second act.

>>146061187
make game without hyping yourself up first
game is released and no one cares
you disappear into the sea

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Ara ara~ You're not interested in an old snake like me, are you?

>>146061729
nowhere near enough scales

>>146056056
>diabeetus
You also have to keep in mind that diabetes does fuck you up mentally at times. When you have hypos - which happen a lot more when you're still figuring out your insulin dosage and stuff - your sugar levels go really low and end up making you paranoid and a lot of other stuff. A friend of mine ended up at the hospital because his sugar levels got too low as he didn't calculate the right units.

>>146061729
not enough solid snake

>>146061729
Not enough scales and definition senpai.

>>146062707
>>146064101
Noted. I'll see what I can do while it's still in sketch form and all. Thanks, guys! I'm not an expert on lamia designs so I guess getting the right directions/references to give to the artist was a bit of a challenge.

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>>146061313
advertising does not equal self-congratulatory hype
if you can't advertise your game without some stupid premise that it clearly won't fulfill and value judgements, you're a bit thick

>>146065019
Highway Blossoms is selling copies.
Top selling game in the Visual Novel tag right now
The more we bitch about it the more we cement that it's more important and more relevant to the scene than all the other VNs that have come out lately

>>146061313
But didn't that nurse yuri evn pop out of nowhere with almost no to little marketing? Maybe it's about the quality after all.

>>146065953
>nurse yuri evn
Do you mean the nurse yuri JVN which was a very well-known title in /u/ circles, whose _translation_ was announced with very little lead-up, confusing everyone, and was then subsequently delayed and has not yet been released, making it impossible to know anything at all about how it will perform in the market?

>>146065579
You're not considering the fact the tag goes by what's popular in the week, and it's obvious a new release is going to be selling more than games that were there this whole time. If there were more not-completely-shit releases this week, there'd be competition.

You're also not considering refunds. Selling on Steam is just half the battle and kinetic VNs have it harder.

>>146066775
>and it's obvious a new release is going to be selling more than games that were there this whole time.

It isn't, actually.

I know the 'top sellers' tag is weighted by the current week (and for that matter, current hour)'s results, and is somewhat subject to bizarre algorithms. On the other hand, I keep an eye on new releases. Any new EVN release should at least be in the top ten for a few days after launch, or it REALLY tanked. They don't all stay at the top of the category, though. The game is at least doing better than many in sales.

I have no data on KN refund rates so I can't speak to that.

>>146059856
I'll be looking out for it, fellow yuri anon.

>>146067635
>They don't all stay at the top of the category, though. The game is at least doing better than many in sales.
No evidence of that yet.

>>146068290
I just stated the evidence? A lot of new release EVNs are on top for a single day after release at best, or not at all. Many are only in the top ten, not category topping at all.

If it were getting awful reviews you might think the initial sales will then flatline but the reviews are positive except for one guy who had a single bug and therefore ragequit

>>146068696
For perspective, it's rating higher than the new chapter of Higurashi in the 'top sellers' category, and has FAR more reviews than Kyoto Colorful Days or One Small Fire At A Time which have both been out longer.

It's obvious that it's doing better than many games on launch. That doesn't make it a hit, there's no evidence of THAT yet, but "better than many" is clear.

>>146070859
>people think this is funny

>>146070859
What is wrong with her neck.

>>146070859
>>146070976
Context, please?

>>146067635
Try tracking achievements. It's not long of a game, so if there's a drop off, then it means that people stopped playing and likely refunded it. Some of the achievements were a bugged though, so some didn't unlock until after I beat the game and checked the guest art gallery.

>>146068851
People got sick of Higurashi's slow as crap release schedule and are waiting for the first 8 chapters to come out before buying it. The other 2 vns you mentioned look like shit.

Looks like Highway Blossoms just put out a second patch that broke peoples save again. That makes it the third time when you take into account that the H patch broke them too.

okay so I'm not an expert with Ren'Py, but surely there's a way to not break saves when updating games

I've ran into frustrating issues before with new iterations of my project breaking previous saves, but I'm wondering if there's a way to prevent that from happening, when adding new variables and stuff, or is it just inevitable?

>>146072149
I opted into the Sakura Dungeon beta and my saves from before work just fine. It should usually be fine unless it was programmed in such a way that didn't factor in potential patches.

>>146071948
why do their saves keep breaking? i never had this problem when updating my game.

>>146071948
the H patch didn't break the saves, they just thought it would

>>146072149
only if you do it really carefully, but you pretty much have to coordinate with pytom really closely and it's not very feasible sadly

>>146072530
renpy rewrites some stuff internally when you change things, leading to breakage in the referenced dialogue nodes and the like in the save files

>>146072620
that is, coordinate if you don't know the exact conditions under which the engine rewrites node labels

>>146072149
I don't know how renpy manages saves internally, but for a KN you should be able to circumvent new var problems by checking if said var exists (and assigning it a default value if not) prior to checking its value.

>>146072864
>coordinate if you don't know the exact conditions under which the engine rewrites node labels

Care to share what you know? You seem to understand it.

>The latest HB patch broke achievements

Keep trying, guys. One of these days your game will be working as intended.

>>146073524
wow that's just incompetent

>>146073190
don't know the exact conditions either, but the gist of it is that Ren'Py assigns a textual label to every single statement in your .rpy file, for instance:

a "This sure is a bad game."
b "Then why are you playing it?"

will yield two "nodes" (stuff the engine actually can do stuff with, as opposed to just a bunch of text in the script) after parsing, and both will have their own label

now, this label generation is somewhat finicky, and one big cause of broken saves is changing the script around that much that the label names get changed too. since save games refer to your current location by the node label, it would either jump to an incorrect node in the script or just error out because it can't find the node label. this can also influence rollback, if you deleted three dialogue statements from the script, it thinks it can rollback for whatever (let's say N) nodes, but now that there's actually 3 less nodes preceding the starting point, the engine will freak out when it has reached the beginning while it thinks there are still nodes left

tl;dr Ren'Py's savegaming is a big fat mess and it's a shame

>>146073868
disclaimer, this is what i understood from messing with it a few years back, it might've changed and is definitely not the only cause of breaking save games

>>146073524
I got them all before they broke them, but not all of them were working as intended then either. Maybe they tried to fix the issue and broke them entirely.

>>146073868
Huh. So as long as you don't change the actual node content, saves won't break? But as soon as you add/remove nodes/dialogue lines Ren'py is fucked?

Seems fucking volatile.

>>146071381
meme mode unlocks after you complete the game once
its only there to artificially add replay value and extend playtime imo

>>146074283
i'm not entirely privy on how the node label generation works, it might take content into account as well. obviously it also depends on how much you fuck around and where in the script the save game you're trying to load is located.

but yes, it's incredibly volatile. one possible solution would be to tell the engine every time you're building a release for distribution and it would generate label transition code or something.

>>146074375
It could also be to get Lets Players to pick the game up. Most probably wouldn't touch it with how serious the second half is.

>>146074459
Gotcha. Thanks for insight senpai.

>>146072149
I do not understand how or why some people are breaking their saves when they update. We update our games all the fucking time and the saves don't break. It certainly doesn't require having PyTom hold our hands.

>>146074957
for more first-hand information, saving is pretty much dumping the RollbackLog object here to a file: https://github.com/renpy/renpy/blob/970efedd9ca650bb5b90ac405d2c4e851c50374e/renpy/python.py

although i found Ren'Py code incredibly annoying to read if you don't understand the context of pretty much everything around it and the terminology it tends to use

https://www.renpy.org/doc/html/translation.html#translate-statement
you can see the node labels i was mentioning in the example translation code here, the start_* names. this is because Ren'Py's translation system basically just does a full node replacement with new (translated) contents. it needs to know which node to replace, which is what the labels are used for here too.

>>146074283
Generally no? Usually if you load a save and things have changed, the game will back up a little ways. In most cases, smoothly.

You'll break it if you delete labels it was relying on, but that should be obvious. And if you add variables and then try to check them in save games that didn't have those variables set in the first place, then again that will screw up.

>>146075703
>but that should be obvious
it really isn't that obvious if you don't know how rollback works internally. for a user, labels are just that, labels, nothing for the engine to rely on internally in some magic ways

>>146075464
Urgh, I haven't even dived in Ren'py internals so this may take a while to understand. Can we poke PyTom to explain some of the general stuff?

>>146075703
>Usually if you load a save and things have changed, the game will back up a little ways. In most cases, smoothly.
this is correct though, and i forgot to mention it. the issue of course occurs when it can't. it won't straight out crash when not finding what it's supposed to, since it has a full historical log (sorta) at its disposal, but there's only a limit to what it can do

Tumblr art EVNs. Y/N?

Didn't the Rising Angels game have a slightly similar issue with people unable to load saves at the episode points and they fixed it? Do Sekai devs just not talk to each other?

>>146077909
Would you want to talk to a sekai dev?

>>146077889
so, art EVNs?

>>146077909
sekai is more of a publishing house, so no surprise there

You know, a scene select sure would be convenient to have, considering all these broken saves...

>>146078610
One thread is enough.

>>146077909
Why would Sekai Project provide any actual help to the developers whose money they're siphoning off?

>>146078869
To be fair he does have a point, in that if they're not competent enough to keep their saves from breaking it WOULD be handy for both players and developers to easily jump to different points in the story.

For that matter better internal chunking and scene breaks might make their saves break less.

Is Ren'Py, really the only way to do VNs? Or at least, the most stable one? I heard that Ren'Py can work with Unity, soon. But how soon?

I don't know much about coding but the Unity thing is kinda important in my game and despite considering Ren'Py at first, I feel forced to use the Unity VN Toolkit instead.

>>146081689
Ren'Py isn't great, but all alternatives are a lot worse, so yeah
the Unity thing is just something writing a Ren'Py script parser for it, which probably won't be remotely fully compatible because all the Python stuff it does

>>146081689
atm renpy is the way to go, unless you need live2d and a ton of animation effects. also it's not known if sekai project will let the renpy->unity engine available to the public.

>>146081689
You can always write your own VN framework on top of another engine, bruh.

>>146081689
Of course it's not the only way to do VNs. It's just more flexible than any 'easier' method and therefore the most useful tool to convince clueless flailing newbies to learn to use.

Many clueless flailing newbies will insist that it is too hard because it involves typing very simple words of code, and therefore demand to be allowed to use Novelty or TyranoBuilder instead, even though they are objectively shitter.

However, if what you want to use is Unity, learn to use Unity. Don't wait around for someone to make you a spoonfeed weak porting tool that will still make much of your code break and have to be done over again.

seriously just learn to program and stop trying to find a toolkit that will do everything for you

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Why would they do this? Why would anyone do this?

>>146082759
do what?
have a male character?
have a sign with a snake on it?

>>146082759
Starry skies trigger me too.

Theory: Calling the wrong name during sex is more likely than calling the right one.

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>>146083679
>>146082759

>>146083837
just condition yourself to use the name of the current US president or something

>>146083837
You don't love your waifu enough, anon.

>>146084223
oh, i do
that's why i'm desperately envisioning her even though she's not here

>>146082206
>Live2D and AE
Well, fuck me. I guess I'll just have to ask my programmers then. I was really trying to avoid having to use them at all, not until we got funded at least. A lot of them insist that it's okay if they do this for free, but I want to see to it that they're properly compensated for the trouble. This kinda speeds up the entire thing though, I hope that they'd be alright with it. If I'm to release a demo I'll have to hand over the assets as soon as possible to them.

I'm doing most of the creative parts and I already got my hands full. If this is what I gotta do then, here goes.

>>146082289
>>146082346
Other than the fact that I'm already shouldering a lot of the assets in the game (Live 2D, BG, story and other animation), I can't code for shit. All the coding I learned in school went out the window because I haven't practiced it in years. Learning to do it now will be counter productive. I'd rather have someone who knows their shit and help out in the codes/scripts so I could focus on the art and story.

>>146084193
>>146082759
perspective on these screenshots really fucks with me, if he's standing further in the back, why is his sprite cut off at the exact same place as the girls'? Or maybe they're ayyliens and just have huge heads.

>>146084316
Next step is tulpamancy. Schizophrenia is a small price for happiness.

>>146084436
>tulpamancy
what is this rabbit hole i am staring down

>>146084590
Autonomous imaginary waifus that could go yandere if rubbed the wrong way, apparently.

>>146084985
>rubbing your waifu the wrong way ever
look at this pleb who can't into foreplay with anime girls

>>146085068
But imagine the disaster if you tried to summon your waifu and ended up with some other crazy anime girl instead. Stuck in your head. Threatening you every time you looked away.

>>146084396
Is he standing further on the back, though? Looks like he is at the same distance.

>>146085189
Seriously, there should be a limit to how much of a pleb an adult can be.

>>146085306
What is this nonsense? Next thing you'll say is that you don't believe in magic, Battler!

>>146070859
Can one of the devs say who made this CG? Surely it can't be Rosuuri, unless she was just... really lazy on this.

>>146070859
>trying to outmeme based Mugen
not gonna happen kiddos

>>146087050
>based
out

>>146087050
who?

>>146086189
That CG wasn't rosuuri, they had 3 cg artists:
RosuuriCG artist
ShiyunSprite artist/CG artist
WeeeCG artist
Since it doesn't match up with wee's style, it can only be shiyun's, since the sprites are of a similar quality.

>>146087298
>>146086189

The worst part is this CG is re-used constantly in the VN, almost nonstop even.

>>146087138
how new are you

>>146092926
Looks good, what's that from? Google image search doesn't work for this one.

memes

fuck writing a decent game synopsis is hard.

>>146101154
is this oblivion

>>146101929
not enough wraiths

>>146091263
I haven't seen him in a long time.

>>146092926
seriously? that file is 2 fucking MB.

>>146105915
i'm in the buttfuck boonies and i can still load it.

>>146095239
Well, tineye found it. Walkerman. Seems to be stuck in development hell. Unsurprisingly. No /u/ either. Also not very surprising but still disappointing.

>>146106252
i don't think there's romance routes whatsoever, which is a shame because the girls are all sexy.

>>146106736
That would explain why it barely managed to reach its kickstarter goal.

>>146101154
Can't find it. I'm mildly interested.

>>146107853
Time for this protip again.

If someone posts a screenshot whose filename is a 4 or 5 digit number, it's more than likely a vndb screenshot. Google "vndb screenshot [filename]".

https://vndb.org/v14492

>>146109020
Thanks! Didn't know that.

Hopefully the folks from Sekai think twice before picking up Black Sands, everything the guy says makes him seem like a pain in the ass.

>>146111558
Well, if they do pick him up, they're going to beat Tao and WC and become the biggest laughing stock of the community. And if they don't, there's always the chance he'll cry "racism".

Either way, it sounds fun.

>>146111873

It's literally the only visual novel I've ever wanted to tank so I could laugh at it.

>>146111558
Why would that stop them?

>>146111873
>they're going to beat Tao and WC and become the biggest laughing stock of the community.
They're already working with those people, though.

>>146113013
>Why would that stop them?

I assume no one wants to work with difficult devs unless they are like WC and print money.

>>146114160
Difficult to work with hardly matters if you're SP and don't do anything anyway

>>146101154
This looks weird as fuck senpai. If you already went through the trouble of creating 3d models, why not and go ahead with a full rpg? Why limit yourself with this?

>>146114770
What do you expect an image from a 7 year old vn to answer?

>>14611496
It's still stupid though. 7 years doesn't change that.

>>146114968
Better pointless questions than leaving the thread to die?

>>146114770
You assume they created 3d models and didn't just download a picture from somewhere.

For that matter, slapping a character together in Poser is a very, very long way from being able to create an RPG.

>>146114720

Because when they do something stupid it won't be "dev did so" it will be "SP did so".

>>146115262
As I said, it's still stupid. And even if it was just downloaded by that person. Whoever made that still didn't pull it off. It looks awkward as fuck, if not a little jarring.

>>146114720
I imagine that if Black Sands was published by SP and it didn't sell well, they'd say they didn't promote them as well as they should have because they're racist, which isn't great PR for a publisher.

>>146116017
Isn't the sekai guy asian? I think only whites can be racist in tumblr land.

>>146116465
Asians are a special kind of people of colorful melanin levels caleidoscope rumba rainbow and can therefore be racist.

>>146114770
It's probably just screenshots from an Oblivion sex mod.
They didn't do any 3d modeling at all.

kickstarter was a mistake

>>146119807
Someone's crowd funding didn't go well.

>>146120915
Someone's probably salty about AJ Tilley

>>146123685

I'm all for being flexible for the inclusion of gameplay, but how's a beat 'em up game a vn?

>>146123879
Well look at that exciting talking section on display there

>>146124282

Truly a literary masterpiece.

>>146123685
It looks good and distinctive, which is more than I can say for most generic vns.

>>146128784
UAB 2 is looking pretty good.

>>146125876
Redefines the genre.

>>146128784
those aren't hands inside of them right?

>>146134124
It's da D

>>146123135
AJ Tilley?

>>146128784
How revolutionary!

ded

>>146143042
Alive. For now.

What memes does Highway Blossoms have?

>>146145139
The dank kind.

>>146145139
buy it to find out :^)

>>146119807
Spill the beans

>>146144961
not for long now, I need to sleep

>http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=74b800eadf353a0fe4d6dde43&id=437fd875a3

sekai project is releasing two jvn back to back, so i was wondering, does it not matter if you launch a game near a big sale on steam?

>>146148982
I was wondering about that as well. Launch dates are pretty important too.

>>146148982
>Sekai Project
>business strategy
pick one

10

borp

>>146153927
>>146153919
congratulations /evn/, you have twins

Die

Ugh... Anything happening?

>>146156084
I'm 10% in my script writing and I want to stab my neck for even starting this whole deal. Sooo yeah. Nothing new. Sorry bud.

>>146156084
realised the writing for my new vn is going to cost $1500 if i'm lucky. now i'm trying to figure out what to charge for the game. The irony is that to charge more than i am already, i need a bigger wordcount, and more words = more money.

>>146156949
>paying writers
that's my favorite /evn/ meme

>>146156949
$1500 for how many words? Kinda want to know how much would be worth my script if I wrote it for someone else.

>>146156949
>Paying $1500 for words

Why not just learn the english language bruv?

>>146158148
that's so relative on skill level, work ethic, and experience though. just because a writer is getting x rate doesn't mean everyone can get x rate.

I always wonder why people assume writers shouldn't/don't get paid.

>>146148982
It's hard to say what does or doesn't matter unless you've done a lot of A/B testing. Some games have done okay launched during a sale. I wouldn't do it myself though.

>>146159692
Most devs double as writers and don't (initially) factor themselves into the budget to keep costs low.

It's hilarious because if you suggest that an artist should do the same, everyone goes insane.

>>146159692
It's quite simple. First, if there's a single writer it's often the project lead, and in really indie games it can be looked down on for the project lead to pay themselves directly, they're supposed to invest in the project and then reap the profits.

Second, many writers involved in EVN are not at a professional level so everyone snickers at the idea of paying for that shit (Of course, the counter-argument comes in that if you actually hired a professional your writing might suck less balls. This isn't totally true, there are EVNs with professional writers that still suck, 'professional' doesn't mean 'good'.)

Third, the economics involved make it a little daunting for a lot of low-budget projects. If you're paying 5 cents a word, which is not even a good payrate, just a non-embarrassing one, the cost of your solid-but-not-huge 200K word VN is suddenly a big deal.

>>146160075
>because if you suggest that an artist should do the same, everyone goes insane.
On the other hand if the artist is the LEAD and they want to be paid, we get everyone's complaints about caramel mokkacino.

>>146160115
>which is not even a good payrate
so you turn your nose up at .05c a word all the time, yeah?

>>146160293
Not being a freelance writer myself, that question isn't really relevant. I'm just saying, that's not a generous, wow, I can hire anyone for this, kind of payrate.

>>146160075
>>146160115
>How dare the creator want to be paid for their hard work!

Well, that's dumb. Everyone should include themselves into the budget. As long as they made significant contribution, that's worthy enough of proper payment

>>146160187
What. People are complaining that the person (who is the lead AND the artist) asked that they be paid too? Is the concept of everyone have bills to pay really that difficult to understand? Did SV get the same treatment? For what I heard the lead did most of the work, right?

>>146160075
>It's hilarious because if you suggest that an artist should do the same, everyone goes insane.
Only because artists do so with the same rates for commissions, which doesn't keep the costs low, and just results in them getting paid the same as if they were hired by someone, only to do what they want at their own pace in order to make more money.

>>146161654
Do we know for sure that artists pay themselves the same rates as their commissions? I had a look at the CM Kickstarter campaign and if you divide the amount of art assets by the money they assigned for the art you don't get a very good rate. I don't know, maybe everyone in Chile only eats recycled cardboard.

>>146161850
Yes, we do.

Let's just be honest: you could be the writer, the artist, the composer, the guy who delivers pizza to the crew... and no one would give a fuck if you include yourself in the budget unless you're trying to seriously profit from it rather than fund the project itself because that'd go against the whole point of crowdfunding.

People aren't pledging to pay you a salary. That's what Patreon is for. KS and IndieGogo are for funding projects, not your life.

>>146161884
>funding for projects
>not your life
A person's life is also included in the equation anon. They can't finish the project unless they have enough to feed them till its release date.

>>146161884
>Patreon

Talking of which, I saw some vns relying on Patreon for funding and finishing projects. Is this a good alternative to crowdfunding?

>>146162380
>They can't finish the project unless they have enough to feed them till its release date.
You can't seriously tell me commission rates are only to fund living costs. By your logic, an artist that isn't getting the same amount of work as usual every week goes without groceries instantly, and that'd be just a financially irresponsible person who shouldn't be freelancing or crowdfunding.

There is no justification to charging the same as a commission for your own KS project. It's literally getting paid to babysit your own kid when you're a babysitter by profession and would legally have to take care of your kid anyway because it's your kid.

>>146162649
You'd make more money on the long run, but you'd be expected to make consistent progress.

Basically, it's the nightmare of anyone who can't show new shit every week or can't market a product.

>>146162774
Funny you should say that. A certain dev is known to justify that. Hint: it's a woman.

>>146162649
For sure. Unlike KS/IG it's not a one-time thing, so you can even acquire more funds through Patreon.

Obviously funding isn't consistent. So you need to actually put out updates every month or so, to keep patrons from leaving.

>>146162774
>It's literally getting paid to babysit your own kid when you're a babysitter by profession and would legally have to take care of your kid anyway because it's your kid.
There ARE political arguments in favor of paying people to look after their own kids, provided they do a good job at it, rather than expecting them to work an unpaid job on top of a paid one.

>>146162774
You'd be surprised how many people were unable to finish their games because of this. It might be their fault, of course, but if people want to see a project get finished, enough that they'd want to support it, giving the lead a little bit more shouldn't hurt. It gives a bit of a cushion in case the artist got sick or such.

Example, Exogenesis' Kwan just got diabeetus recently. Good thing they got more than what they asked for in their KS. This is just a case of good luck of course, not the norm.

>>146163134
Yes, as there are political arguments in favor of bestiality and pedophilia that get ignored because they're fucking dumb and impractical. Like that one.

>>146163216
>dat slippery slope.

Anon, try subtlety sometimes.

Just a reminder: there are arguments the Earth is fucking flat.

>>146163213

So are backers expected to take the risk of the dev team's life in general on top of the normal financial risk?

>>146163305
My desire to be subtle goes away when someone suggests the dumbest thing possible: giving welfare to half the world's population over something they can do over and over again every nine months.

>>146163414
There are always risks in each crowdfunding.

>>146163415
>topic is about lead devs who might need a little more
>slides into world welfare propaganda

/pol/ please leave.

>>146161364
SV's kickstarter's base goal didn't include paying the lead/artist. The stretch goals did, but she had other people that were going to end up having to do work to put in those additions, like her programmer and co-writer.

>>146163543
>There are always risks in each crowdfunding.

But you don't put all of them in the budget. That's like saying they should have a funeral fund in case one of them dies. Sure, that's a risk, but it's dumb to put it on the backers.

>>146163543
>/pol/ please leave.
First of all, /pol/ was always here, and you have to be really new to think otherwise.

Second, I wasn't the one who brought up the notion that it was a political argument people made for validity of a stupid idea.

And lastly:
>There are always risks in each crowdfunding.
No excuse to try and "prevent them" by asking for more money. If people give you more, great, they appreciate you. Overbudgeting is messed up at the very least, fraud at its worst.

>>146163578
Why is it wrong to pay the lead/artist again?

>>146163628
>All these anger about leads that earn more than what they're "supposed" to do
I'm starting to sense some bitterness here.

>>146163736
Wrong. It was a containment board for autists.

>overbudgeting
>measly couple of bucks added so the lead could live via ramen

Dear lord, I wonder, have any of you people successfully launched a game? Oh wait.

>>146163759
>Why is it wrong to pay the lead/artist again?
It's not, but they're not being commissioned so it is unethical to put a cost the same as if they were getting paid to do something they wouldn't financially benefit further from or that they didn't actively want to do.

>>146163759
>Why is it wrong to pay the lead/artist again?

Because their payment is supposed to be the profit of the game. When they put it in the budget, they are effectively getting paid twice.

It's even more egregious as indie devs doing a crowdfund because they have the ability to forgo that money to have a lower funding goal.

>>146163910
>Dear lord, I wonder, have any of you people successfully launched a game?
Yes, and I didn't have to overbudget to do that because my project actually looked good and my team's members had a track record. But go on, keep projecting if it makes it easier for you to pretend you're not unethical. The only way to make it is to charge far more than what you need, right?

>>146164009
>Good
Show me what you got senpai.

>>146162649
It's very unstable. I know some evn devs dropped around half of what they were getting in a couple months time. They had fairly regular posts, but even that's not enough to keep peoples interest. VNs can take months to develop and people might feel like they aren't getting their money's worth when nothing is release for months at a time. People complained about that with Razz's patreon and a copy of Catch Canvas as a reward.

So you wanna make bread to sell.

You got your hands and experience with an oven.

You ask for a place to work on. You get it.

You ask for people to bring you ingredients. You get it.

You ask for helpers to do everything else that isn't putting the bread in the oven. You get it.

You'll get to keep all the money from the bread sales.

And now you're mad people don't like the idea of you asking for a salary on top of everything?

>>146164009
>Good
That's subjective though. If that's what's ethical then does that mean that people who earn more than they were expected to are supposed to get their hands off the money that were thrown at them? Let's say if a lead's KS goal is only around 6k and they earned 100k. Are they still supposed to lay their grubby hands off the moolah?

>>146164198

But what if the oven explodes and I lose my hands, anon!!

>>146163213
Giving a project too much money can be a bad thing too. It can lead to feature creep and they may have severely underestimated the cost of the stretch goals. And of course lets not forget devs who get way more than they asked for, yet backburner the crowdfunding project in favor of starting new ones.

>>146164063
Nice try, friend.

>>146164230
>Are they still supposed to lay their grubby hands off the moolah?
The ethical thing to do is to put it into the project. If it's not enough for new features, it could be worked into marketing or something similar.

>>146164198
Let's put this in a lead/artist position then shall we?

>Place to work on
They already have it.

>Ingredients
They already have it

>Helpers
They don't have it yet.

>Money from the bread/vn sales
Is probably gonna go to the bread/vn again. Because VN profit are questionable in the long run.

>>146164304
Fabulous.

>>146164352
>Being this against the idea of a lead gaining profits

Wow. I for one I'm glad that VN is getting successful. I'm happy for the lead/artist. You miserable, "ethical" cunts are the reason why EVNs have such low quality.

>>146164398
>Because VN profit are questionable in the long run.
Protip: every business venture has big variables. People are funding your project to completion/distribution, nothing else. That's what crowdfunding is for.

Just in case someone takes this retard >>146164497
seriously, it's not about leads making profits, but making profits twice, as in making profits to make profits.

All this rage about people trying to collect some amount of pay for their efforts, from people who line up to give away money to SP for free.

>>146164769
See >>146164602
>it's not about leads making profits, but making profits twice, as in making profits to make profits.

>>146164769
gg ez

>>146164821
But you can only claim that if the lead is going to sell that game. What if it's a free game?

>>146164897
It almost always ends up on Steam and/or itch.io. Very few crowdfunded games are free.

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>Had a strong start to my story with tons of ideas floating in my head
>Write a decent chunk of it
>Get a job
>Every night when I get home I'm too tired to do anything and just sit and watch TV before bed
>Weekends are spent studying for certifications or being lazy
>Haven't made progress in two months

Help.

>>146164897
If it's a free game it's all good. No one at any point in this argument is against people getting paid to do free games.

>>146164991
Quit your job to work on your game.

>>146164991
>Getting a job while working on a project.
Isn't it usually the opposite? Like quitting the job to focus on a project? You dun goof'd man.

>>146165080
>>146165127
Stop trying to ruin their life, you fucking cunt.

>>146164821
>making profits twice, as in making profits to make profits
Like Sekai Project does, by never putting the profits of their games towards funding the next game?

>>146165080
>>146165127
I'm not dumb enough to try and make a living off of english imitations of chinese porn books.

It was originally a fun project to kill some time while unemployed, but now I don't have time for it anymore when I still have a desire to finish it and it's slowly killing me on the inside.

>>146164198
>all the money from the bread sales
But the kickstarter money IS the bread sales. In many cases that's the bulk of the orders they're going to get.

>>146165214
SP is the opposite of ethical in many, many ways. To the point where they try to come here and shift discussions of their business practices towards a favorable look, pretending not to be affiliated.

>>146165214
For all we know all that extra money might be going back to the devs, and do you know how many damaged physical copies they've had to replace because they arrived damaged?

>>146165295
Then stop complaining and stop pretending you want to work on your project.

>>146165303
>But the kickstarter money IS the bread sales
No, it's not. KS/IG are for funding projects, not preorders. Read the terms of service.

>In many cases that's the bulk of the orders they're going to get.
Tough titty then. At least they got to produce this unmarketable product no one but the backers want without paying out of pocket.

>>146165303
No it's not, on Steam they'll get a few hundred to a few thousand extra bread sales by default. And with surges during sales.

>>146165353
>For all we know all that extra money might be going back to the devs

It does. The money they give to devs doesn't come out of thin air.

>>146165295
>I'm so much better than you faggets
>wasting time on an english imitation of a chinese porn site

GG. Now kindly fuck off and stop whining when you're already being a mediocre twat.

>>146165353
They ship physical copies?

>>146165295
>wahh my hobby is killing me on the inside
Would you like some cheese with that whine?

>>146165409
>without paying out of pocket
Only if they paid themselves a salary.

>>146165468
You can't really tell that, since the steam owner count INCLUDES the backers.

>>146165560
Yes. That's a big thing in most of their kickstarters. If a game gets so much as a scuff on it during shipping people won't shut up unless Sekai ships them a replacement.

>>146148982
At the moment, Stray Sheep is barely in the top ten of current best sellers in the VN category. I'd forgotten SP even had that property, so they must not have been marketing it very hard. At the moment its only review is in Japanese. It's clearly facing a much worse reception than Highway Blossoms did.

>>146165632
>You can't really tell that, since the steam owner count INCLUDES the backers.
If only you were smart enough to do basic math and subtract the number of backers who got a digital copy of the game. But alas, you have the IQ of a potato.

And Steamspy numbers aren't accurate anyway. Many people won't crowdfund projects, but will buy the game once it's actually out, unless your game sucks or has a bias against it.

>>146165632
You're a special kind of stupid.

>>146165854
>a smart person could get the exact sales count by deducting the backers from the owner count
>except that the owner count is extremely unreliable, and not every backer redeems a steam key, so the error margin is such that a game showing thousands of sales might have none at all
>but you're still stupid

>>146165771
Stray Sheep has some really shitty art and there's no porn.

And lets not forget:

>Linux version might not work, we're looking for workarounds.
>Achievements will be added in the future
>Cards will be added in the future.

>>146166036
Why did they even launch if the game is half broken? Why not just wait?

>>146166007
Which is why the owner with the access to Valve's stats is the only person who knows, as opposed to trusting SteamSpy. Not getting to that conclusion on your own is stupid.

>>146166036
No one cares about Linux or OSX. Windows is what most JVNs will only work on unless they're ported and some can't be, or aren't worth the effort to.

>>146166116
Claiming that you know any better is pretty dumb too senpai.

>>146166179
Anyone who's launched a game on Steam knows. It even tells what countries the sales came from. The data is very useful.

>>146166179
You really didn't think this through, huh? A lot of people here have games on Steam and can verify this information.

>>146166116
And that owner wouldn't need to do any silly deductions because it's very obvious to them how many sales they've made, so the snark about math still makes no sense.

>>146166275
>>146166386

Anyone who's launched a game on Steam knows exactly how many sales OTHER developers on Steam have made?

>>146166817
>>146166897
Anyone who launched a game doesn't have to know other people's games made to know SteamSpy isn't accurate.

Worth mentioning: https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/36sfby/how_accurate_is_steamspy/crgrf3i

>Anything below 30K is wildly unreliable.

>>146165487
>I'm so much better than you faggets
Where did I say that?

Did I hit a nerve, Anon?

>>146167259
No one in the thread has actually argued that SteamSpy is reliable.

>>146167786
Wanna try again? >>146165632
>You can't really tell that, since the steam owner count INCLUDES the backers.

Are Highway Blossoms achievements still broken? I've never heard of a patch doing that before.

>>146167870
Yes. Clearly, I see a statement that says "SteamSpy numbers are 100% accurate"

No, wait! That's not what it says at all!

>>146168005
You just established you're either incapable of following a discussion or a really bad troll.

>>146167951
Definitely broken for some people, not necessarily all, if you look at the forums. But it's not uncommon for them to not work for some people anyway

>>146168056
Someone said games are guaranteed to sell a bunch of copies on Steam on top of the kickstarter backers. I said there's not really clear evidence of that, since any listing of how many people on Steam own a game would include the kickstarter backers.

As outsiders who are not the developers of the game in question, we cannot easily look at an individual steam title and say "it got X backers and then also made Y sales".

Do I need to walk you through this more slowly? I never mentioned SteamSpy and certainly didn't say its numbers were completely accurate, since that has nothing to do with the point I was making.

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So, how about those video games?

>>146168347
>Someone said games are guaranteed to sell a bunch of copies on Steam on top of the kickstarter backers.
Guaranteed, no. Far, far more likely, yes. Because a) KS only works with credit cards, unlike Steam and b) people are more willing to buy a game to play there and then than to pay for a maybe-it-will-get-done-one-day project.

>I said there's not really clear evidence of that, since any listing of how many people on Steam own a game would include the kickstarter backers.
Not something you can google, sure. Ask any dev on Steam, though. Literally any dev.

>As outsiders who are not the developers of the game in question, we cannot easily look at an individual steam title and say "it got X backers and then also made Y sales".
Correct, but also irrelevant.

>>146168743
I'm interested in that one but I'll wait until I read a few reviews.

>>146170192
is this ero

>>146170831
God... why would you wish that?

die

>>146173353
Crowdfunding is a terrible idea. Why pay someone who doesn't know how to manage money thousands of dollars just so they can pay everyone a salary and not release the game? They also tend to overhype what they're offering. And some are even releasing the games way before they're ready with entire missing parts in the case of NOBY.

>>146173895
>just so they can pay everyone a salary and not release the game
To be fair, most people aren't nearly as irredeemable shits as Dischan

>>146174195
Many don't budget properly though. They think they have enough for 20 CGs and the artist runs off and they either have to have varying styles, or pay to redo everything.

And look at the mess that is exogenesis. They hired a programmer that they didn't even need and had to replace them with the one they actually needed. Literally funds down the drain.

>>146173895
>Crowdfunding is a terrible idea.
Well, duh. Nearly no accountability/people thinking it's free money to do whatever ruin it for everyone.

>>146161884
I can't find the number of art assets on the KS page, where did you find the number to cross reference against Deji's commission prices?

Also, the backgrounds are made by Badriel, not her.

>>146174541
>They think they have enough for 20 CGs and the artist runs off and they either have to have varying styles, or pay to redo everything.
But anon, if they ask for more money than the bare minimum necessary to pay for everything with nothing going wrong, then they're greedy and horrible people and deserve to fail.

>>146162864
Well, that narrows it down a lot!

>>146174837
They did ask for a cushion in their budgeting and they still went over it and can't afford all the voice acting they promised.

>>146174837
then the budget should include the possibility of having to do everything twice?

>>146174676
45% of the main goal is for art. That's $4275. Badriel charges $30-75 per BG. If they had 30 different BGs, which is absolute overkill, and Badriel was charging the most they do, only half of that money would be gone. Which would leave enough for about 65 full body sprites for Deji's commission rates.

So yeah, totally not overestimating costs.

>>146175332
The CGs might be taking up a big chunk of the budget, since those are usually in the 100s of dollars for a single CG.

>>146175238
Not necessarily everything twice but yes, you do need to at least take into account the prospect that something will go tits-up.

>>146163736
>/pol/ was always here
now who's fucking new

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Sakura Space will be a yuri vn.

>>146176165
milking that cow till it's dead, are we

>>146176407
It's stillborn to me.

>>146175914
Yes, but Deji is handling those too, isn't she?

>>146176052
Still you.

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>>146176165
Beating a dead demographic to a pulp.

>>146175332
I can only find the price for one sketch commission, which is $20, though I imagine she charges US dollars, rather than Canadian dollars, for those.

I wonder if Badriel still does stuff for those prices, his Lemmasoft thread hasn't been updated and the last post on it is from someone who didn't get an answer to their PMs. The last examples are from 2014.

>>146176598
>Yes, but Deji is handling those too, isn't she?

You think she should make them at no cost? Or just that she shouldn't have put them in the budget and then used the additional money if she got it? For the kind of deadline she has (December 2016) she wouldn't be able to do all that work on the side. The campaign does say that if it didn't get funded it would be a considerably smaller project.

>>146177030
>You think she should make them at no cost?
Going by the $100/CG thing, she could still afford about 16 of those if she had 15 sprites.

However you look at it, those prices do look quite a bit overestimated.

>>146177030
I wouldn't say no cost, but the whole "I really want to do the fandisk, but the possibility of me charging less to help lower the stretch goal didn't occur to me until literally the last hours" rubbed me the wrong way.

>>146176598
cute how you think you know shit when you probably weren't even here before /new/

>>146177907
MUST. HAVE. LAST. WORD.
EVIDENCE. UNNECESSARY.
THREAD. WAS. NEVER. POLITICAL.

>>146177687
that stuff is all hot air to get backers to donate more.

>>146178112
>EVIDENCE. UNNECESSARY.
you're the one making the claim buckaroo

>>146176165
Tao better get his space yuri game out soon. Nothing worse than Sakura doing something first and potentially better than you.

>>146177440
Man, her rates are that low?

>>146177687
I think she's just stupid, really.

I do wonder, though: I'm fairly sure she had other people do the CG sketches for her so she could make lots of CGs, it could be that she will do that for the whole game as well, to have lots of CGs. 20 CGs would be the minimum I'd expect at this point.

So now that's yuri is mainstream, which autistic EOP fanbase thirsting for VNs will be catered to?

>>146179759
>Man, her rates are that low?
Yep, but she lives in Chile. 2 grand USD is a lot there.

>>146179924
>Yuri
>Mainstream
Just because people are finally doing games about it doesn't mean it's mainstream. If anything it's just a niche getting it's first fun ride in a while. Soon it will be a long, dry season. Enjoy it while it lasts buckos.

>>146179937
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/chile/minimum-wages

I just checked. Fucking hell!

>>146183075
Is this yuri too?

>>146183075
why is the white girl making a vulcan salute
why is the smith looks straight at the camera
where is "auto" button

>>146183460

That's not the vulcan salute, anon.

>>146183185
It's mixed, like usual for him

Winged Cloud is on a role. They're also working on Sakura Shrine Girls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC0qy2QOffk

>>146185798
>role
anon pls

>>146185798
>shrine maidens
>they look slutty
What's the point?

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>>146185798
Sakurashit is literally like porn parodies on popular themes with a bunch of clones in different wigs/contacts/outfits.

>>146185798
who the fuck picked that music?

Would I be looking to hire a writer, or should I look for an editor instead? I want someone to improve the script with the usual things like grammar and flow but also more major edits like changing or adding to plot.

>>146187373
What's not the point?

>>146185798

>Shrine girls
>Miko outfit for like 1 sec the whole trailer.

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>>146192987

>>146192987
Tried it a bit. Got bored quickly.

>>146185798
Never-ending milking.

Highway Blossoms ought to include a performance of Chickenman

What ever happened to Salty Tears?

All your dreams will die

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They fixed the hand but it broke the saves

>>146210204
>spoiler
kek

>>146206362

If a VN isn't talked about in any of these threads just assume it died.

>>146047816
>http://meganelover.com/post/122965940223/visual-novel-creation-masterlist
>Hi I'm Arthur and I have the best datefriend in the world
>They pronouns
Fucking disgusting.

>>146163926
>Because their payment is supposed to be the profit of the game.

This is a fallacy. If you've ever been in the games industry, you would know that all the devs get paid a salary so they can meet their basic needs while they are busy working on the project. If you don't have the funds to pay a team, or you can't acquire them, you don't hire a team. It's not rocket science friends. Funds that come from sales are for future marketing, company buffering, future game development (which is paid to the team while they are working on the game) or in the case of kids making games with no experience, dowhatever money. You have to understand that if you can pay your team wages while they are working on your game you fucking do it. No excuses, no bullshit, just pay everyone and everyone is happy.

>>146164991
You're living the life just like millions before you. Get used to it and do your best at your current job.

>>146212194
>you don't hire a team

But you don't hire YOURSELF.

>>146212475
Do you think the suits in the industry don't get paid salaries on top of profits?

>>146176676
>>146176407

Thousands of people buy your game. Do you,
>keep making more of them
>do something else
based on your answer I will either believe or not believe you.

>>146212729

suits =/= indie devs.

>>146212475
Actually, for managing a team and contributing to the game assets you would probably get more pay if anything. Unless you just want to sacrifice yourself to hire a couple extra artists, musicians, or whatever. Just because you're the project lead doesn't mean you have to go hungry. If you're paying yourself more for doing nothing then obviously you're a shit, but that wasn't the argument I was making.

>>146168873
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/va-11-hall-a
It's been doing pretty well so far critically

>>146168743
Oh shit, that's out today! Thanks for the reminder.

>>146213669
Your payment should be the reward of knowing you've contributed to a creative work

>>146213669
>>146215647
Just stop acting retarded. If it's your project and the money goes to you, you shouldn't get a salary from crowdfunding.

>>146215647
>here's your salary this month guys
>what about you, bro? You've only got three packs of noodles left
>I know, but I can't give myself a wage to live, I have to use it to hire more people
>but how will you pay us our wages if you die of starvation?
>all I know is I'll have contributed to a creative work, my legacy will live on

>>146216296
> "here's your salary this month, guys."
> team does nothing
> dischan.jpg

>>146216185
Why should anyone else get one, then? They can all take shares of the profits! This will work great

>>146217283

But they don't get a salary, that's retarded. They get commission-based payments.

>>146217506
So why would it be weird to pay yourself the same commission payments you would pay a freelancer to do your job?

out of curiosity how much makes you satisfied after making a game? the bottom line profit after costs to hire people and time.

0$? 3k? 10k? More?

>>146217506
You are referring to piece wages, boils down to each job, hour or piece, etc. is paid separately rather than on a periodic basis. These are still things you have to pay. People who do hours serving in a cafe for example earn a minimum wage.

Why would YOU not get the same? Ultimately it's your money and you will set aside your payment, using the rest for everything else - hopefully minimum WAGE so you can live properly, if you're paying yourself to a certain degree of above average you're just a scummy person in charge of your business money.

>>146218052
Because you're going to keep the profits afterwards, they aren't.

Also, it's weird because it's other's people money, so you now not only have you deflected risk, you got paid a salary on top of it.

I'm a complete noob to renpy and programming in general, could someone help me out with a simple question? I'm trying to use a fade transition to go from one scene to another, but the problem is that the sprite doesn't show up for about half a second until the textbox does, so there's a moment where only the bg is showing with no sprite. I want to make it so the sprite and bg show up at the same time.

The code looks like:
scene outside bg with fade
show girl sad

I've tried to find a way to rearrange this to eliminate the problem but I failed to figure anything out. Again I'm a complete noob to renpy and the solution is likely obvious, thanks to anyone who helps me.

>>146218618
You still aren't comprehending the fact you would be an employee and offering work yourself. If you threw a piece of paper, said do whatever and paid people whilst you went to do another job, your argument works.

>>146218703
>scene outside bg with fade
>show girl sad
wouldn't it be...?
>show girl sad with fade

>>146219102
If I put show girl sad with fade, first the new background appears with no transition, and then she fades into existence like a ghost, which isn't the affect I want. I want both the background and the girl to fade in together, at the same time.