/domg/ - Dominions general

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>>122692212
first for fail site searching

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first for aboleth traps

>>122652614
>funbux kitty
>there are seriously people who need to divide their money according to purpose because otherwise they'll blow it all in the wrong places
If you have too many "funbux", just invest that shit.

second for reminder to work on the wiki yall
http://dom4.wikia.com/wiki/Dominions_4_Wiki

Anyone wanna trade CoE4-keys, so both parties have 2? add me if interested: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Brandynator/

Jesus Christ, am I the only one in Crapaclysm who didn't take a snake pretender?

>>122693692
I think I took mine imprisoned but I honestly can't remember

>>122661613
I think the problem is when everyone resends the turn in order to be helpful, in a twenty player game, you get twenty turn resends.

>>122692410
Can someone explain this DANK MEME to me please?

>>122693005
sent :^)

>>122694190
trap aboleth

>>122694190
>Literally asking for dank memes to be explained to you
>Rather than immersing yourself in the meme
4chan is 18+

I want to try new items for a SC, is Lantern shield worth? It has fear +5 so combined with horror helm it can be fun. Also the free corpse candle it gives.

And how about shield of gleaming gold? that one seems good too.
Vine shield is good but I lack nature mages

>>122698528
Gleaming gold is great against units that can fail morale checks, especially when your chassis has fear natively. It provides another level of mitigation, which is what you're looking for your defense items to do. Lantern Shield's fear effect, by comparison, can be useful for getting units to rout sooner, assuming you have other sources of fear, but doesn't actually make your SC take less damage while fighting, and is therefore not generally going to be as good as a vine shield or gleaming gold.

If you need to get rid of a bunch of chaff that already can't really hurt your SC, then the fear effect from the lantern can be useful, but having a fire shield is often even better for that purpose in that it actually kills those units.

>>122698810
Thanks anon. Then i'm getting that sweet golden shield.

>>122693692
having played few catacylsm games against AI it seems like awake expander and no decent bless is the way to go.
the chance you'll get some good sacreds for your bless is low, you'd rather get more provinces, faster, and start recruit some average troop and all the best mages.

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These fucking descriptions. Best part of CoE4?

>>122701783
The Dark Crystal must be code for /r9k/

>>122704971
Basalt Kings are full NEET in Dominions too.
>The Kings however, rarely concern themselves with political matters and spend most of their time staring into the Dark Crystal at the bottom of the gorge in the center of the city. In the pale light of the Basalt Kings' antennae, shades and movements can be seen in the Crystal. What this means is unknown to all but the Kings themselves.
>Stare at crystal all day
>No one else gets why
>Take no responsibility for kingdom ruled by their moms

http://dom4.wikia.com/wiki/Sauromatia_(Early_Ages)

EA Sauromatia done. Critiques encouraged.

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>>122686539
Well, a cloud mage not being any use is kinda annoying.
What about an adept of the golden order when you're Asphodel and it'd break you into two new kind of magic properly?
Luckily I'd already sold my fire gems to Mitclan, which was a hideous mistake a he put up purgatory

>>122708081
Can he still research for whatever his 'adept researcher' thing is wortht? If he can, it'd still be high upkeep for what he gives you, but at least it's something.

>>122709926
Nope, he gets +8 to research but he can't research.
I'm giving him a wand so he can be a "real mage" and sending him to die as befitting a viking I have no idea what culture he's from so went with that

>>122710937
They're from secluded towers, so culturally they'd be more akin to a college professor that spent little time outside of academic circles.

Also, fuck giving him a wand, that will make him fight from the rear and be likely to live.

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>>122711079
Fine, I have thugged him out in the finest in randomly created gear from events. I shall now send him and his two light infantry he spawned with (leadership 2) into Mitclans territory.

>Mr Skeleton, tear down that lightning machine.

And Ermor won, thanks to his buttboi Ulm. I told y'all it would happen several turns ago.

Congratulations Ermor, you are a very good player, and I've learned a fair bit interacting with you.

>>122712825
Ulm let him takes his thrones to win? Ulm truly bring out the worst in people.

>>122713396
At least he didn't stale once.

How do I script my units as LA Marignon, or generally any archer+Flaming Arrow/etc. based army.

Do I have my foot stand right in front of the archers in a line and just hold ground?

>>122713917
You have to it depends

>>122713917
"Guard commander" usually works for me

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>>122713917

This is what I use, but it seems to be somewhat ineffective against things like calvary and fliers.

Is it not scripting properly or just an issue with not having enough units/spell diversity

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>>122712825
I'm still not convinced I had much to do with Ermor winning. The most I did was distract you (who I would have fought anyways) and mildly annoy Marignon with a few Iron Angels. My interactions with Ermor were mostly trades, so it wasn't like I was feeding him resources or anything. If he could hold off you, Marignon, and Agartha at the same time I don't think adding me would change the outcome.

And it wasn't as though he just waltzed some H3s onto my thrones - he sent several hundred sacreds, some tartarians, and a good few mages. I'm at fault for not building forts, of course, but I haven't had the money for it (and they wouldn't have done anything but delay the inevitable for a turn or two).

Besides, I've been in enough games where Ermor gets dogpiled by everybody. Sometimes you want something a little different.

>>122713917
>>122714498
The two most common ways of doing this is having an expendable commander at the front and set your frontliners to guard him (you may want two or more once your armies get sufficiently large, and may also want to start using thugs with cheap defensive gear over naked indies) and using a line with hold and attack. The line mode is easiest, but your units will, eventually, walk forward and make the fighting happen a bit further from you as a result.

>>122714963
>Spending money attacking someone instead of forting your thrones

>>122714963
Having to fight you both at the same time was what did me in. I'm pretty sure that if I could have focused on Ermor alone, I would have held him long enough to not snowball this much.

Also, you were in the perfect position to betray him at several junctions. It's almost a moral obligation to make it as difficult to win as possible for the leading player.

>>122715184
I have never claimed to be good at this game!

>>122715339
>I would have held him long enough to not snowball this much
Thing is, he had been held back. I'm not entirely sure as I didn't have many scouts, but I'm fairly certain that after Mictlan was conquered pretty much the only expansion he did was get a few provinces from you, and take a few underwater.

I could have betrayed him, yes, but I really don't think it would have made a difference.

Post graphs plz

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Graphs incoming.

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Does Dominions bork out with screenshots for anyone else? I always have to take two to get them working.

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Damn you, post timer.

Hey admin, can we get 48 hour turns? I need some time to figure out a way to kill 3 million skeletons.

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Almost done.

>>122718332
Easy, you just become skeletons

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>>122718385

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Finally. So yeah, Ermor was leading in pretty much everything but gold and research for the majority of the game.

>>122718496
It's not like he's got sacred undead or undead elephants, I mean what's the problem?

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>>122718770

>>122719007

Protip: Undead are weak to banish

>>122719007
What happened to your RoS guys?

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>>122719007

Only one solution

>No turns

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>>122719007
Oh.

Plan B, throw more skellies at them.

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>>122719516
You have to do this. What could go wrong?

>>122719189
If I had 200 theurgs to spare on just banishing things I would do that, but unfortunately I don't have that many lying around the place.

>>122719313
They're still hanging around.
They're too valuable to be used unless I'm sure they'll hit their intended target, and all you have to do to avoid them is send a few units to the province they're in to waste the trap and potentially lose them.

>>122719516
I think we're past the point of lone units soloing huge mage supported armies, sadly.

>>122719554
If only Ermor would do something with those skeletons aside from sitting around.

>>122720187
Hrmmm, I think it's come to the point where even though Sceleria is a fellow skelly nation, he needs to be stopped from spooping everything.

But who checks on the checker of Ermor?

>>122720187
don't forget that Holy magic is boosted by communions, so a fuckhuge banish communion could be a thing, especially since communicants are useful now.

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>>122720562
That's what I've been doing, it tends to kill all of the communicants though.

is A4E4D4N2B4 enough to break into every path but S in depth? or should I throw S5 on there for D3A3E3N2B3.
assume nation and f/w don't matter

>>122720872
Four more for 5 boost, you can do it.

>>122720872
are you casting reinvig/regen spells?

>>122721060
N9E4 bless, if I had access to reinvig spells I would cast them.

>>122721129
crystal matrix on an E mage, bonus points for E/N mage.

>>122721060
Reinvig/regen for god damn BANISHMENT, what.

And why not cleansing water?

>>122721129
What about The Ravenous Swarm? Or Wither Bones? Unless you're already doing those and it isn't enough

>>122720901
It depends on how far you want to go into each path, but if you have bloodstones E3 gets you E5 (E2 with ring) and D4 is needed for D7 (tartarians) with ring or D5 without

>>122721268
the communicants have no paths so they get dickloads of fatigue from literally everything

>>122721268
Banishment still costs the slaves 1 fatigue each, iirc.

>>122721252
I only recently found some E/N mages, I'll see what I can do since crystal matrixes are also required for casting important buffs on turn 1.

>>122721363
Like I said, not enough nature mages to go around (and there's fog warriors being cast so the ravenous swarm isn't terribly useful), and no death mages.

>>122720872
That looks pretty damn effective, desu. That one cast takes out a fat chunk of that ghoul squad

>>122721470
They should suck it up for the good of not dying to skeletons.
>>122721530
True, but if the battles goes on long enough to kill them whist using banisment the skeletons will have overrun you by then.

>>122721874
they get 1 fatigue per master per round for each banishment.

>>122721671
Summon some Archangels and let loose some Falling Fires on those skele fuccbois, it'll cost you a few pearls but might be worth it

>>122721770
I went overboard with the number of masters there were but I didn't want to lose that battle since I had quite a lot of mages in there. Not enough to win against really large numbers of skeletons since they will explode anyway after 5 or so rounds.

>>122722227
Archangels are better off casting army buffs and stuff like Heat from Hell, I'm not letting them get anywhere close to the front when there's netherdarts spam everywhere.

>>122722138
180 fatigue to fill, and post 100 it's 5 regained a round. Sounds fine.

Something else I learned today - Never ever cast mists of deception.

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=SkellingtonsBeScary
halfway full. still no ermor allowed.

Again, going to need a 48 hour extension over the weekend.
Is there a way to talk send an email directly to the admin over llamaserver? I know most of these are anonymous games.

>>122724689
>Post in thread that I wanted to try Asphodel
>Someone else takes it before I can submit my pretender.

welp. I'll go be not mad over in this corner over here

>>122723032
Never actually tried that spell. That's the one that puts up the -precision mist effect and randomly summons phantasmal warriors, right?

>>122724838
I assumed that was you since it was pretty much right after I put the game up.

>>122725295
I got beat to the punch.

>>122725086
Randomly summons a variety of random phantasms including knights, wolves, monsters and other stuff. Thing is, from what I saw it spawns maybe one phantasm a round in random places, and they're not exactly great at anything except stopping things from moving around. The one thing it did for me is catch a retreating mage, but it's not exactly great for an A6 spell. Maybe it's more effective if you actually cast mist but the battle I cast it in already had darkness and storm in it.

>>122724793
There isn't, and you've done the turn that was just sent out, right? Will you be able to do the next one and when will you be back?

Ermor is such a huge pain in the ass to fight.
If you're not one of the lucky few with earth or air magic, it's an infinite uphill battle. God damn.

>>122726179
>earth AND air magic
Yeah, I know what you like.

>>122725802
yep. Sending in my turn now.
I'm heading out in around 36 hours from now, and will be back probably around 01:00 GMT. I'll send in any more turns turn if we get more before I leave, I just felt it was better to give a heads up early.

>>122726179
What nation are you that doesn't have one of the numerous, large AoE anti undead spells?

>>122726456
It is appreciated you mentioning it early, I'd rather just extend the turns I need to in case of Ulm...........

>>122726341
>Oh baby, rain my stones!

>>122726491
I'm MA C'tis, and I don't have the forts for lizard king/high priest spam.

>>122726939
W I T H E R B O N E S

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>Large undead army arrives on your doorstep as an underwater nation
>Water mages can do fuck all against undead even underwater

>>122727120
Doesn't kill shit quick enough, especially when only a quarter of my already paltry number of marshmasters can cast it.

>>122727213
cleansing water

>>122727281
>6+ AoE of 'kill fucking undead, no resistances'
>Doesn't kill shit quick enough
u w0t m8

>>122727354
Ironically, that doesn't work underwater. Also Ice Elementals, which are usually great for skelly smushing, are water elementals underwater.

I mean, skeletons get big penalties for fighting UW and stuff, but it is kinda sad that water magic's usual answer to the skelemans fails on their home turf.

>>122727354
You can't cast it underwater for some strange reason.

>>122727392
At fifty fatigue and 25 range you get off maybe three of those then it's game ogre. So 6 aoe three to a square is 18 kill per cast (at absolute best) or 54 per marshmaster. Of 13 marhmasters, ONE of them rolled D3.
So that, at best, means if I had the research to use witherbones RIGHT NOW, I'd kill 54 skeletons with it.

>>122727893
Can you use skull staves or communions to bump that up by a wee bit? Remember that you halve the fatigue cost if you can go from D3 to D4 as well as increase the AoE

is there a conquest of elysium general yet?

Does anyone have a list of all the dudes and their upgrades?

>>122728175
I could probably get a very small communion, but they wouldn't live long considering the fatigue they'd pile up. I don't think I could get thaum6 before ermor took my cap anyway, considering the sieging power of 1000 skeletons.

>>122729145
That's totally fair and Ermor is definitely an early-mid game threat. I sort of assumed that you were later on in the game, since that's when air/earth answers come online. Early game, the best response is banishment spam for pretty much every nation.

>>122706314
Maybe I should learn to play basalt next.

>>122728393
Don't. It's not big enough.

>>122724793
I'll extend Fashionably Late as soon as Gath get's their turn in

>One faggot has to go screw his sister for the weekend
>Literally SIX games delayed

Fuck you, you can fit turns for early games like Mapmaking in you shitter

Would anyone here rec CoE4?

>>122734998
Given that my cultist summoned a basalt king, failed to control it, and then exploded his own front line with a meteor, no, i would not.

>Shitter playing underwater nation goes AI 10 turns in
>AI instantly rushes Wolven Winter and starts spamming it on all my provinces
>Despite me never having attacked or provoked it

FUCKING

STOP

>>122735852
>implying it's the AI and not Neifel getting ready to give you the cold dickens

>>122736479
Nobody BUT the AI has water magic near me, let alone enough gems to spam wolven winter LITERALLY FOUR FUCKING TIMES EVERY FUCKING TURN FUCKING STOP

>>122718332
Given that I just got home and have work in 10 hours, I too would like an extension.


>>122720872
I really messed up that castle storm, though, didn't I? I should have looked at what was inside of the castle before just charging on in. Big losses there, even if it's not irreplaceable.

One of my big takeaways from this game was honestly the power of earth magic. The throne earth mages that I got seriously carried me, and some of my biggest losses were to Agartha's oracles. If you include its crosspaths, Earth has some of the best battlefield clearing spells in the game along, some great army-wide buffs, and they even have a potent anti-SC spell from Petrify.

MA Ulm and Agartha both look like they have really potent mage lineups, but the lack of mobility from their armies seems like it'd be frustrating to play with. I definitely noticed the benefit of having MM3 armies this game, and I'm sure that switching over to MM1 would feel awful.

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Couldn't handle the big scalie dick

Oh yeah, and since this hasn't come up yet - did Bandar Log share their game plan with anyone? I sorta figured that their hope was to turtle forever with Astral Nexus until they could Astral Travel an army onto all of the thrones or something.

Regardless, they actually helped me out a fair bit too. There was a point in the game where my income was significantly lower than my upkeep (this was that time around where Marignon surpassed me in provinces). I managed to get by without having any mages quit thanks in part to BL sending me cash for free and then later trading me more for some gems.

Oh, and the research graphs were a huge shock to me. I had less RP/turn than I managed to get with human nations at, like, half the turn count. Bandar Log being behind and then catching up makes sense, given how their thing with C'tis went, but I really expected both Sceleria to initially have been way ahead of me and for Marignon's lead to have been much bigger.

>>122739449
>all that kingmaking

Shameful.

>>122739449
Go play versus yourself Sy

>>122697336

>'immersing yourself in the meme'
>being that retarded

>>122722495

Banish communions shouldn't kill the slaves if you use theurgs. Communicants are just.. a bad idea except for suicide singlecasts. They die so fast.

Why does ermor have so many more resources than you?

Also, uh, do you have battlefield kill? Fire Storm or Wrathful Skies would be.. super nice on those giant hordes.

>>122725383

Just have the admin remove that aspho, and put your own aspho in. If you called dibs, you get dibs.

>>122729145

>powerful death nation not having counters to huge hordes of undead
>the ermor lore makes sense

Keep in mind skeletons kill really really slowly. Sure they're immune to poison, but Skeleton Horde/Raise Dead will actually defeat them, especially if you can put up Relief/hand out skull staves/reinvig girdles/shoes.

>>122740312
Nah, I'm not that bothered by it. I'll play as something else.

Oh also I forgot to mention the other use of communicants, first turn pathboosting. >>122740312

Guy with master matrix + communicants = first turn cast without having to worry about turn order.

It's very niche though.

>>122739719
Well, at the time that BL was sending me money, I wasn't really winning (as you can see on the graphs). I was being pushed back on all fronts that he bordered, and he was trying to maintain the equilibrium between me and Marignon.

>>122740604

>implying that 'maintaining equilibrium' as ermor doesn't mean you've won
>after the game has ended
>this much diplo

You must be a barrel of fun to play with.

>>122740765
~.^ I don't think you know what diplo means. I was explaining my perception for why BL had sent me money. I obviously can't speak for him, but I doubt that he intended to be 'kingmaking' when he sent money to the guy who was losing ground in what looked like an even war.

>>122741079
Stop sidestepping. You're the reason why people play no diplo anonymous games

>people play no diplo games
Not the dude you're talking to, but I'd be down for one of those. I've yet to see one on /domg/ though

Is anybody besides Agartha blogging Stalewarriors?

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>>122742772

It works better on desura and dom4mods where people have reps to protect and so don't do secret diplo, but it's certainly still doable.

About.. half? the games I play are no diplo and it's _really fucking nice_.

It just removes this huge workload of diplo that I don't enjoy from the fun of army scripting and working out tactics.

>>122743081

Also I like people a lot more when we're 'communicating' in dumbshow like leaving no PD in the capring province you took to show it's fine to take back, keeping forces in border forts to show you're not at war with someone else/a pushover, but not enough to be threatening a next-turn invasion, etc.

All that kind of thing.

>>122743081
>>122743176
That does sound fun, actually. I'd be down for that.

>That one autist that doesn't like diplomacy is here again

Reminder that you can literally be the DIRECTOR of ANY game you are in with MINIMAL EFFORT and you don't even have to be a major nation to do it just play people like fiddles

>>122742772
I played a couple of them and to me they're awful.

Half the time you lose because some chucklefuck on the other side of the map grabbed all thrones without anyone bothering to do anything about it because nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on, and the other half it's because one player is a bit stronger than the rest and there's no way to communicate that fact to your neighbours or arrange a gang-up on a sure winner so he just steamrolls everyone one by one.

Even if you dislike diplomacy (in which case why are you even playing Dominions?), just being unable to coordinate attacks is a big handicap unless you're already the strongest.

>>122744029
I can see how an early lead can snowball harder than a game with diplo, but I'd definitely be interested in at least trying it for a change of pace.

>>122744209
Yeah I'm not saying you shouldn't try it, maybe you'll enjoy it more than I do, but I actually like being able to talk to my opponents. Doesn't even have to be full-blown diplomatic shenanigans all the time, but no diplo at all is way too limiting for me.

>>122744029

'gang up on the winner' is a really great way to win the game by using people as your patsies.

I know domg likes beating up scrubs, but the 'one guy kills half the map and takes thrones and no-one stops him' is only possible if scrubs don't scout and don't attack large dangerous enemies when they see them invade someone else. Don't need anyone to organize anything for that to happen if people actually have a few games under their belt.

Alternatively, it's the description of a game by someone who likes to camp and sit around doing nothing until lategame, when they lose due to their inaction. It's what i'd expect to happen from someone who normally makes opportunities via diplomacy rather than skill at tactics/magic, who joins a no diplo game. Fear and inaction.

>>122744284

>far too limiting for me

If you want to win games using diplomacy, and get angry when people win with tactics and magic use, maybe don't sign up for no-diplo games.

>>122744917
>only possible if scrubs don't scout and don't attack large dangerous enemies when they see them invade someone else
This happens in like 80% of all /domg/ games, diplo or no diplo.

>>122744996
On which note, this is a reminder that Xibalba is currently eating up Berytos.

>>122744983
>If you want to win games using diplomacy
Diplomacy is just one more tool in the hands of a skilled player. Nobody expects to win games through diplomacy alone.

>and get angry when people win with tactics and magic use
Nice strawmanning, scrublord.

>maybe don't sign up for no-diplo games.
I don't, not anymore. But that doesn't mean I can't give my opinion. I explicitely mentioned others might enjoy it more than I do.

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I don't really understand what I am supposed to do against this madness.

>>122745156
Bery is tiny and also AI so nobody cares.

>>122745207
Uhh... I have no idea what happened there. Was there just an insane amount of PD cavalry or something? Because the actual units there look like a handful of random indies like what the AI would recruit, whereas you have an actual army with mage support.

>>122745207
holy shit, dude. How did you manage to lose? Post a battle screenshot. I want to see what madness went down.

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>>122745319
>>122745420

It is against AI. I know I am still terrible at this game, but jesus christ.

The battle started out well enough, although my initial volley did jack shit, and once the Elephants reached my front lines everything fell apart.

>>122745908
Ooooh

Here's what happened - your crossbows were out of range to begin with, then walked forward in front of your infantry to get into range. This meant that they essentially functioned as the front line instead of your swordsmen. Since you set to fire and keep distance, the ones that weren't in melee tried to move away from the much faster cavalry / elephants. This meant that your crossbows were either fighting in melee or doing nothing.

>>122745908
Welp. Sometimes you just need to order your archers to fire closest and hope for the best. Especially if you fight against army without mage support/indies, and don't have enough blockers. Even if your frontline dies or get trampled, other guys will shoot the enemy. It's better than the situation where your entire squad of archers moves back and forth like madmen.

>>122746069

So what do I need to change here?

Also, what is the best way to have a few F2B1/F1B2 mages support the army outside of Flaming Arrow communion? Either only having 1-2 mages to spare, or when I already have more than enough to comfortably cast Flaming Arrow. Are there any other particularly useful Communion/individual spells they can cast?

>>122746446
>fire
>useful

Man, the necromancer in CoE4 sucks ass.

>>122744917
somehow I keep getting the impression about some people being machiavellian geniuses manipulating all those around them to let them when, and more you act like a giant douche, and people responding with a giant fuck you.

Then you getting upset that people worked to fuck you, even when it doesn't help the individual, because you can't grok that giving a giant fuck you to douches is an end in itself for most people.

>>122746649
*let them win
I need sleep.

>>122746649
Yeah, pretty much every time I see someone try to play off two sides against each other, the sides in question get mad and kill him.

ex: Vanheim

>>122746815
It worked great for Yomi in GAFF. He won the game by turning everyone else against Caelum and grabbing a bunch of thrones while Caelum was busy raping everyone.

But yeah more often than not it goes wrong.

So what the fuck happened? Did yomi win? Was any of my adminning even necessary? Was the game fun?

>>122746996
Oh yeah, I remember reading about that. I think part of the reason that it worked was that Caelum really was capable of taking on every other player in the game (barring Yomi), so he wasn't even lying about Caelum's power - just his own chance to win.

>>122746572
Eh, he's certainly weaker than some of the other guys. Especially demonologist, who can summon Prince of Death and gain access to all necromantic stuff, including Hands of Glory generation.

>>122746572
are you fucking reatded? he's one of the best if you are just a bit patient.

You can wander around blobbing.

>>122748113
Dunno about him, but that's what necromancer get.

1) Skellies and soulless. Soulless are fucking trash, and shoud defend HoG generation sites from deers or should be upgraded to armored versions and block the gates in forts. Skellies are good early-game frontliners, and their best use is probably 10 HoG upgrade to banefire archers who cab wreck even some late-game shit. You still need a ton of resources to upgrade them, and without upgrades they are cannon fodder. And insanity generation from raise dead increased in CoE4, so you either have to rush Grand Necromancer, cast Twiceborn and die, or haul several apprentices everywhere, which is not that wise anymore, as casters with lvl 2 spells are super important now. Skeleton animals are trash and should be ignored.

2) Lesser summoning. Almost never worth it. Basically, best case scenario is some spectral archers or a mound king with magic item.

3) Ghouls. Situational. Those villages are better used for HoG generation in the long run (although I'm not sure if you can cast it on farms and hamlets).

4) Mummies. Good luck with finding those pyramids, senpai. And they're not that good to begin with.

5) Major summoning. From super game-changing to almost useless. Best case scenario for early-mid game - abomination, the ultimate blocker. Best case all around - tartarian spirit. Situationally good - Wraith Lord (because of plane shift). Mediocre - dracolich, ziz. Killed by 5 longbowmen tier - banshee, ghost.

6) Raise legion. Got a lot worse in CoE4 because of its onece per battlefield use. Always good - unfrozen (because of the mage with blizzard), dust kings/mages, shades (good magic + all of them are stealthy and can planes shift). Mediocre - banes, spirits (although spirits can be combined with shades for ultimate plane-shifting army). Cannon fodder - ermorean legionnaires.

That's all. Commander immortality is pretty good, especially on liches, but you need to waste a shitton of hands on it.

>>122748648
And keep in mind, Demonologist can summon 1 demon lieutenant or a horde of demon knights (150 sacrifices each for maximum security) and wreck almost any summon you have, just like characters with good AoE mages and elementals.

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I seriously need that "sort all skellingtons" button.

Also, can we get those graphs again, please?

>>122746815

>every time I see

If you see someone 'trying to play two sides off against each other', odds are, they're super bad at it.

The thing to take from this isn't that it's a bad tactic, but rather that you're oblivious to people doing it well.

>>122745319

>stuff to distract crossbows

>9 armoured death elephants

That's kinda ragha's non-gryphon dealio.

>>122745161

I've won games purely with diplomacy, like, where I didn't have to fight anyone who had any sort of chance against me whatsoever, and sort of sailed into a victory without taking any losses.

It was really boring, and I eventually just stopped doing it.

The thing though, is it wasn't even particularly hard? You just go talk to people. People are not really good at managing information or reading tone, so you just tell them things that make them more likely to do what you want, and respond to their information by changing what you're doing with your nation. You don't need to offer people deals or ask them to do anything.

But it's super boring. And outside of actual veteran players, people don't actually resist it. At most you'll sometimes find a couple other people good at it, and you'll do a bit of diplo and counterdiplo.

It's not hard in the slightest, and will win you pretty much any mid or low tier game.

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uwotm8

>>122747070
It was a fun game.

I did a detailled description of my strategies after the game ended, but IIRC what happened was, in order:

>Mictlan attacked me early on but seriously misjudged my power. He won a few defensive victories mainly because of insane PD levels, but I mostly kicked his ass and took his cap and throne with ease.
>TC attacked Xibalba and completely raped him with blessed Wot5E, Xibalba asked me and TC's other neighbours for help, but at least for a while didn't get any favorable replies.
>Once China was fully invested in his war with the bats I backstabbed him and took a few provinces, after which TC immediately went AI. It was a bitch move since he was actually stronger than me at that point, but it worked out just fine for me and savex Xibalba's batty ass.
>Vanheim and Caelum, who were the two strongest players at this time, did some light diplomancy trying to figure out who was planning what, and I made some vague suggestions about their mutual hostility while mostly taking my time with the few TC provinces I actually wanted, most importantly his cap and the throne near it.
>At some point the tension between elves and birds erupted in open warfare. Most of the war was constant back and forth raiding, but Caelum was slowly but surely winning.
>R'lyeh, who had been laying low for a long time, attacked all my provinces at once with scouts and water bottles. This plan failed hilariously and he lost all but two battles. After that he properly invaded me, but his mountains of chaff were no challenge for the overgeared as fuck Dai Oni I had been stockpiling since the start of my war with TC.

>>122749830
It's obviously satirizing people like you.

>>122747070
>>122750118
>I quickly slapped down R'lyeh's invasion and used this as an excuse to take the throne he held on land. After that I told him about the elves vs birds war and he agreed to a truce with me and a joint attack on Caelum.
>I told bats, who was still in shambles from having his shit rocked by TC and considered me his ally for my help in that matter, that Caelum was planning to take his throne and win the game, which prompted Xibalba to start raiding Caelum in the hope of repairing the equilibrium between elves and birds.
>At this point elves, squids and bats were busy getting their shit fucked by birds, giving me the opportunity to take one of the thrones still held by Vanheim completely unopposed.
>After that I had all the thrones I needed to win, though I hadn't claimed three of them yet to avoid attention. With my Pretender, my Prophet, and an indie High Priest I had boosted to H3 using an artifact, I took all three in one turn and won the game, much to the surprise of everyone involved.

>>122750120

So they're only pretending to be retarded, gotcha.

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>>122749830
The unit descriptions are clearly 101% serious

>>122749781
You can say the same for strategy though.

>Outside of actual veteran players, people don't actually resist it. At most you'll sometimes find a couple other people good at it, and you'll do a bit of strategy and counterstrategy.

>It's not hard in the slightest, and will win you pretty much any mid or low tier game.

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Remember, 1 (one) throne.

>>122748738
Not the person you were replying to but

demonologist is pretty stacked but the AI apparently doesn't play him right. Same with troll actually. As soon as you get your mom as a troll you can go around changing forests into troll forests and you get wandering armies spawning all over the place taking random shit you might not even care about.

I've played as the pale ones recently and the only thing they seem to have going for them is the ability to use their low tier burrowers to dig into the the earth elemental plane.

I've played as the demonologist and won [ my only win so far] and lost to halflings and cultists too. Halflings get nasty machines and cultists can start spawning horrors that will never end and keeps attacking your cities until you are paste.

I've played with the barron... but thats pretty self explanitory. I think in a multiplayer game each faction has pros and cons and you honestly don't know how a game will go.

That being said I don't know how to play the pale ones well yet (they need fucking mines so they can get olms spammed but fuck if I can get enough fucking saphires)


Also my face when I see saphires
https://youtu.be/f1wmYtwpNeo?t=17s

>>122749781
是故百戰百勝,非善之善者也;不戰而屈人之兵,善之善者也。

>>122751721
wat

>>122716125
>Thing is, he had been held back
Not really. I couldn't really counterattack him because I had to deal with you. And from what he told me, a big chunk of his gold income came from my former lands.

>>122752073
"The acme of skill is not to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles. The acme of skill is to defeat the enemy without fighting."

Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little more about fighting then you do, pal, because he invented it! And then he perfected it, so that no living person could best him in the ring of honor. Then he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on Earth and then he herded them onto a boat, and beat the crap out of every single one.

And from that day forward, any time a bunch of animals are together in one place, it's called a zoo.

Unless it's a farm.

>>122724689
Joining as Jotunheim.

>>122739449
>BL sending me cash for free
Goddammit. There's another fuccboi.

> I really expected both Sceleria to initially have been way ahead of me
I don't know what I could have done differently. I forted early and didn't stop sinking all of my gold in mages until you jumped me.

>>122740604
> I was being pushed back on all fronts that he bordered
Man, you never were pushed back *decisively*. It was more like a thug-of-war, and seen the ease of replacing troops as Ermor (you didn't lose many mages that I could see) and your excellent gem income, the advantage was still yours.
Also, I'd count as "doing great" if I was just slightly losing ground fighting against three different nations, two of which quite powerful.

>>122740765
I don't get the hate for Ermor (the particular player, not the nation). He played fair (for Dominions) and he played good. He was also lucky.
The real faggots were Ulm and (I'm now learning) Bandar Log.

How are you guys doing?
I have just realised niefelheim is literally eating 2 ai neighbours and probably caelum soon.
Also Kailasa-kun has space-high gold income and i probably going to monkey us out.

>>122753802
Hold your horses, m8. I'm not eating anyone, they're eating me. I'm not even sure that I'm going to get my army to C'tis in time, Vanheim and Pan are already balls-deep inside his territory. And Helheim has 999 valkyries on my border against my 6 giant expansion party. To be honest, I'm barely able to control everything that happens in this game. I jsut can't stop expanding into indies. Ah, yes, I'm on Ermor's capital too, but he AI'ed pretty early, so you can't blame me.

Haven't kept tabs on this shit for months. Did they do anything to Therodos to fix it?

>>122754474
No, but there are one or two guys who had reasonable success with Therodos (one even won a game), so they're not as terrible as first expected, just awkward and hard to play right.

>Start as the Necromancer
>Start in the North - 1-2 moves per turn
>Start in the South - no Hands of Glory income
Suffering.

>>122754623
So they still only get freespawn in underwater forts?

I remember a long time agon some guy here was making a D&D-inspired mod nation of some crystal beings. Was there any progress?

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>resources keep getting taken by independent animals

considering killing myself to be honest with you family

>>122756000
At least you didn't see the horror that was CoE3.

>>122756107
I did yesterday, that was an even worse nightmare

>tfw bought CoE4

So this is what buyer's remorse feels like.

>>122756220
Why? It's an okay game.

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> giants
[ ] ok
[ ] struggling
[X] BTFO
[ ] COMPLETELY REKT

Time to step up the game. Skellies, you're next.

>>122756831
>recruiting non-sacred giants
literally never do this

Jew-kun, the deadline is close, p-please be careful ;_;

My first game of CoE4 (or any CoE for that matter).

Trolls seem really fucking stronk. Just a few of them rape entire armies.

>>122758134
Enjoy your Finger of Death.

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>>122758134
Forgot mah screenshot.

>>122757074
Not even against statues?

Giants might actually hurt them where weaker units just have their attacks bounce off.

Their non-giant infantry also seem pretty awful, even just as chaff.

>>122756831
If you're not dying due to giants (as you and three other nations said you were) I have no beef with you, my concern was a giant Ashdod if you'll excuse the pun.

Unrelatedly, can anyone make clams of pearls? I'd be willing to pay handsomely.

>>122756831
How? Why? But mostly how?
What have I done to you

Hosting interval is now 36 hours. Move along, citizens.

>>122759432
Wrong skeletons, which brings me to the number of temples you've got and your dominion graph.

You said a few, at this rate my land will slowly sink into death.

>>122750358
The difference is strategy isn't boring.

>>122759729
Neither is diplomacy, if you're good at it.

>>122759729

Go learn to play mafia and then get good at it. You'll never find diplo boring again.

>>122760516
>mafia
I have a few good games to save you from this narrativistic nightmare.

Try to play Resistance, for starters.

Game: SkellingtonsBeScary
Middle Age, max 11 players
Players so far: 8
>the Ermor in the game is a place holder that I will delete just before starting.

The greatest troll.

>>122761478
>implying I didn't make a pretender for the sole purpose of early BoT to piss everyone off

>>122761478
based. what's a good and fun MA nation for me to join in? i never played fucking middle ages.

>>122761639
Machaka, Sceleria, Ulm....

>>122761613
>Turn 16
>You cast BoT
>Your global enchantment failled to overpower the existing enchantment.

>>122759696
Sorry man, i built just 3 in Van lands. I will avoid building others, i also built them far from your border so you can keep my Dominion in check.

I didn't think much about it, i am extremely sorry.

>>122761639
Ashdod is pretty cool.

>>122758821
It seems you have more reason than I thought, abandon my lands and I will forget your incursion.

>>122762909
The problem isn't helped by distance, when a temple is in a province with max dom, the candle randomly floats elsewhere till it sticks (it's slightly more complex than that).
As long as you don't build any more at all, it may be fine, but I might need you to let me deconstruct some.

how do you get gud at conquest of elsyium? the only time I did decent was when I lucked out as the demologist and spawn on an entire coastline of villages to sacrifice.

Is there no way to develop your town or something? I don't even see how you get your character to progress.

Why does CoE4 not have a "return to main menu" option?

It's either quit the game entirely or nothing.

>>122763323
>The problem isn't helped by distance, when a temple is in a province with max dom, the candle randomly floats elsewhere till it sticks (it's slightly more complex than that).
It will usually hit a province with enemy dominion nearby rather than walking all the way across his empire. Distance should reduce the number of temple checks hitting you somewhat, though it does depend on exactly how the provinces are laid out.

Higher dominion strength might be the reason you're having trouble, rather than temple checks.

>>122763456
>how do you get gud at conquest of elsyium? the only time I did decent was when I lucked out as the demologist and spawn on an entire coastline of villages to sacrifice.
Are you trying to defend resources? I did that early on, but I've found that just expanding out then recruiting another party to recapture everything indies took off me works much better.

>I don't even see how you get your character to progress.
Most spellcasters can get stronger, I don't know if other characters can. Use one of the rituals which give an extra spell that's above their level, and they become able to cast better spells.

>>122763954
He borders me, a little bit of a border with C'tis and Pelagia, and the edge of the map.
Our domstrength is about equal, unless I'm mistaken.

so what's the verdict on the new coe?

>>122764171
Better than CoE3 in every way that matters, but still nowhere near Dominions.

>>122764171
11/13, "it's okay" - IGN

>>122764171
usual illfraud, making better games but almost completely ignoring improving UI, ease of use, quality of life improvements, etc

>>122764152
>He borders me, a little bit of a border with C'tis and Pelagia, and the edge of the map.
Ah, fair enough. If you're the majority of his border, you'd definitely be eating a lot of extra temple checks no matter where he places the temples.

>Our domstrength is about equal, unless I'm mistaken.
I mean that the extra temples might have increased his dominion strength, and now his temple checks are better at pushing back your dominion (rather than more numerous, like you were saying). Sounds like that's not the case but it could be a contributing factor.

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>>122712825
>>122714963
>>122738105
Wow, this game finally over, sooner than I expected because of betrayal, who could have though that Ermor will betray his only 'friend' when he will be of need of his VP, lol. Certainly not me. Made my day.
I have had a chance to ambush one of his Thrones, but I was 1 province short in term of ritual range to launch my SC there. And in result it's too late.

It was the most interesting game I have ever played in MP, but far not the most fun one. I am congratulating Ermor, he was deserving the victory due to his skill, effectivness and wariness.

Now I'd like to tell something to other players:
Mictlan, thank you for the gems you gave me before death, I aopretiate it, sorry for not being able to kill Ermor for you, but I am mad with you about being powerless against him in the early game.
Vanarus, thanks for the cooperation and for your stuff after your death it helped a lot, your efforts were admiarable.
C'tis, I don't know why have you went AI, but you were a fair partner and equal foe to me.
Bandar Log, we had a nice deals and relationships, but you helping Ermor was a huge mistake, he was powerful enough even without your help.
Sceleria, thanks for you being my best bud in the game, sorry for me being powerless against Ermor, I haven't been able to protect you.
Agartha, thanks for not stabbin' me in the back.
Ulm, you was a failure, at least protect your Thrones properly, let alone not to be slave to Ermor all the game.
Ermor, your skill was impressive, too bad at first we were so far away from each other, if not I'd definately tried to wreck you from the begining and then it could have become much more unpredictable game.

It feels like it was only me who felt that Ermor was a huge menace and I m really dissapointed in all his neighburs who let him do as he pleased, let alone helping him.

>>122758742
You use mages to kill statues. If it isn't sacred, berserk, dual wielding, crossbowman or a summon - chances are it won't kill anything. M-A-G-E-S.

>>122745269
Tiny NOW but full of gold-rich provinces, and Xibalba is big.

>>122764152
>>122764476
We just checked, it was probably the dom difference because we have the same amount of temples but i have Dom 1 higher than him.

Also, i had a little dom void near me that i was filling

Also, i was forgetting, even if it's kinda useless to ask:

Anybody wants to trade Death gems or research items to cute and kind and friendly skellingtons? I SWEAR i won't cast BoT. I'm not even researching Thaumaturgy just because i want to be able to prove my intentions if someone doesn't believe me.

SQUIDS PLS GO AND STAY GO.

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>>122767097
>cute and kind and friendly skellingtons

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Ladies and gentlemen, only in test games.

>>122768665
Shit, that is the luck worth of 1 year IRL.

>>122768665
I fucking hate test games.

>>122768764
Well, I kind of survived the car crash yesterday, so there's that.

>>122768850

>someone's pretender took L3

>>122768665

I guess they didn't patch the randomitem that gives items to commanders you get, like they did the one that gives random magic items via events.

anyone get coe4 on phone? how is it

>>122753802
MINE IS THE DRILL THAT SHALL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!
Mostly just lucky placement combined with decent expansion.

>>122750118
Any yomi tips

so does dom4 or coe4 have better singleplayer?

>>122772490
Probably CoE. It has that feeling of adventure and building your empire. And if you set two AIs as allies they're not even going to die on turn 3 like in CoE3.

>>122772662
Instead they'll die on turn 10.

>>122773630
They don't die unless both of their capitals are captured, and they're pretty close to each other with the clustered start. It's an issue only in free-for-all game.

>Be a badass SC giant
>eat too many of those little german goys
>can't be a badass sc giant anymore because my ass is too fat

AI Nazis owe me some reparations is what I'm thinking.

>>122772484
Early game: You can expand fine with either aka-oni or archers + spears. Wars with other players before you get research up kinda suck
Mid game: Dai Oni SCs
Late game: Whatever your pretender brought

>>122729145
>considering the sieging power of 1000 skeletons.
That's only 100~ siege. That's not really a lot.

>>122776481
>implying
Oh my sweet summer child...

Mindless units only give 1/10 of their strength while defending forts. The offensive siege value is calculated normally.

Also sprach the manual:

Reduction strength = unit strength squared / 100
● Flying units get +1

Repair strength = unit strength squared / 100
● Flying units get +1
● Mindless units are only worth 10% of calculated value

>>122774272
How to SC dai oni? I know soul vortex and N9 bless are good but what about capping forts and how to hear. I'm playing a SP game and it's going alright lots of experiments

how do you summon horrors as cultists in coe4? I summoned a king and queen but I cant get any higher spells

>>122772484
First things first, Yomi sucks. They're not entirely hopeless, but their strengths are one part pitfall and one part easy to counter. Plenty of nations can hard counter 90% of your shit, especially in the late game when you have basically nothing worth using. They're a fun nation, but don't play them if winning is important to you.

With that out of the way, >>122774272 is correct in broad strokes. Yomi has pretty good expansion using Aka-Oni which get a ranged attack, good melee strength, and they don't die even when they're killed. The downside is that you can't give them orders and their protection is shit, but against most indies they're all you need. Attrition will probably be fairly low, but your Oni do tend to rack up afflictions rather fast so don't expect them to last forever.

The trick to buying troops as Yomi is to only buy exactly as many as you need. They're have low resource cost so with enough money in the bank you can recruit a shitload of them out of every fort you have, but they're also overpriced and their upkeep will murder you if you get too many. So don't recruit them unless you need them. Once you have a couple of forts up (get as many forts as you can afford, you don't care about resources anyway), you can leave them all without troops and when you're attacked you can suddenly get 50+ Aka-Oni per turn per fort to surprise your opponent who thought you were undefended. And after they've made themselves useful, you'll want to have as few of them left as possible, so the hard part is to get as many as you need to win, but not so many that you'll win without massive losses. That's easier said than done, and in the end you'll still be starving for gold. Unlike most nations who want to spend their gold as fast as possible, you should try to build up a decent nestegg whenever you're not actively fighting anyone. Either way, Aka-Oni will be your mainstay troops pretty much all game long.

>>122780869
For mages, you'll be relying on Sorcerers almost entirely. Their role depends on their random pick. The ones with E and D picks are most important providing much-needed protection buffs and skellyspam respectively. A picks can eventually cast Rain of Stones which we all know is nice to have. F picks are the least useful, but they can cast some decent evocations at least and if you want they can summon undead archers, which are super frail and have the same weakness to banishment as your Oni, but they shoot banefire arrows which can be very useful. After the early game when (hopefully) your income is stable enough, you'll most likely want to switch your cap production to mass-produce Dai Oni. Those are really the only good unit in your lineup. They're great with a bless (the classic N9Ex is perfect for them), but even without a bless they're hugely important. They're tough, they have decent stats, and they have great paths for self-buffing. You can either gear them as thugs and use them as solo raiders, or you can gear them as SCs and have them destroy smaller armies, support your own armies, or destroy basically infinite amounts of unsupported chaff on their own. Hannya are a trap IMO. They're better evo spammers than Sorcerers, but they're expensive, their aura burns everyone around them, they'll kill themselves if you ever use End of Culture, and most of the things you'll have them do can be handled by Sorcerers as well.

Speaking of mages, you'll be crafting A LOT as Yomi. You'll have a lot of Dai Oni that will all want a lot of equipment, and you'll also want quite a few boosters for your Sorcerers. Invest in some Dwaren Hammers as soon as possible, you won't regret it.

>>122781115
Your summons are a mixed bag. The Shura is basically a Bane Lord with worse stats but built-in fear and makes a great light thug or a undead leader. Of course Dai Oni are much better, but you can't call them "light." Tengus are decent flying sacreds, and the Dai Tengu is your best bet at getting a good Air mage if you need one. They're also good for leading your Tengu. A group of tengu lead by a Dai Tengu makes for a solid raiding party, but I'd sooner slap some winged shoes on a Dai Oni. If you want to use Tengu you need to design your pretender for them since the paths required are awkward. Shikome have their use in theory, but I don't bother with them. If you have a good bless and you're up against undead they're worth using, but whatever. Kappa are a decent way to get underwater early, but good luck getting a W/N mage. The Nushi is meh. Once again when are you going to cast it? And 20% homesickness is awful. Gozu Mezu is pointless by the time you get it.

For the lategame, you're pretty much fucked. Everyone will have some counters to your demons and undead. Your troops will melt away like snow in summer during any serious battle. Your mages aren't going to make a big enough difference (though of course, RoS traps remain useful), and even Dai Oni will get ripped apart by many things in the endgame. Worse yet, since you lack versatility an experienced enemy will always have a good idea of what you are capable of, and plan accordingly. Your only trump card is your pretender. If your pretender is capable of some high-level magic to support your armies, that's going to be your one shot at turning the tide. This is a decent argument for not taking a bless for your Dai Oni and instead getting something like maybe Death or Astral to give you some more reliable endgame options, but then again before you can win the endgame you first have to actually get there, so blessing your Dai Oni for a better midgame advantage is a valid choice as well.

>>122781342
As far as scales go, You have a few options:
>Order
You'll want either Turmoil 3 to make the most use of Chaos Power and Chaos Recruit (Chaos Recruit is a bit of a trap since it doesn't really save as much money as you'd think in the long run, but it's still nice to have), or Order 0 to make more money without completely screwing yourself with a negative Chaos Power bonus.
>Production
You don't need production at all, but higher Production allows you to mass-produce Oni troops more efficiently and also helps with income. Still, I wouldn't take anything higher than Production 0 and taking Sloth scales is not a bad choice either.
>Temperature
You'll basically want to keep this at 0, but taking some Heat scales isn't a bad idea if you really need more points. Your Aka-Oni and Dai Oni are heat resistant anyway, as are the Sorcerers that get F1. Cold scales could work especially if you use Ao-Oni instead of their Aka brothers.
>Growth
You need Growth 3. No exceptions. You will be starving for gold all game long and the other income scales aren't terrible interesting to you, so taking anything but max Growth scales is simply a bad choice.
>Luck
If you go with Turmoil 3, you'll want to get Luck 3 as well. If you don't get Turmoil, Luck is still a decent option, but you can leave it at 0 if you want. Never ever get Misfortune. ever.
>Magic
This is entirely up to you (and to how many points you have left). With Magic 3 your Sorcerers will make quite efficient researchers, and you'll hit those all-important research goals that much faster. It also has a bit of synergy with Luck as well. With Drain 3 your research will be crippled, but your Oni and undead troops will be harder to banish under your own dominion and you'll free up a lot of points. Anything in between is entirely acceptable as well
>Dominion
As high as you can reasonably get it. 6 is a minimum, but 8 is better if you can afford it.

>>122729145
I think i know who you are.

Sorry bro, wrong place at the wrong time.

>>122780832
have to summon squids first

>>122781483
>>122781342
>>122781115
>>122780869

Very rarely do I see people with turmoil yomi builds succeed.

Something i've seen do very well is Order3/Growth3 and Oni Generals to skelespam with. Sometimes with an E bless (which also helps your dai oni), sometimes with an n bless (shamelessly aimed at dai oni), and sometimes with an awake expander (fast expansion really helps).

You can still use demons to expand, they just need to outpace your dominion and fight in neutral (or enemy) dom.

>>122781760
what ritual is it, the one you have to cast in the deep sea?

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>>122768025
Oh I'm going all right. I have known that I was doomed to lose this ever since I was bless rushed by both you AND Oceania more than 12 turns ago. There isn't much I can do when you have built specifically to counter me with your s9/10 bless. I don't have any sacreds of my own so all I really have going for me are assassinations and I can't produce enough strong assassins early to actually win. Mages can't even do anything to stop the horde of sacreds since there isn't any good AOE underwater evocations.
So I did the only thing I could. Ruin the underwater so you have no chance of winning. I hope you enjoy the upkeep on those aquatic only sacreds you fag.

>>122783235
Well, I used Turmoil 3 when I won GAFF, so there's that.

Order is nice for your endgame, but bad for early and midgame. Turmoil is a pain in the ass, but with Luck it's not that bad and you don't want to give yourself a defensive disadvantage. It means you'll have to rely entirely on Bandits (which suck) and summons (which are far more limited) to fight. the thing is, if you get Order you can afford way more Oni, but if you use order you also don't want to rely on Oni, so that's a bit pointless. If you want to rely on skellyspamming Oni Generals, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from doing so with Turmoil.

And I'm not convinced relying on Oni Generals is a good idea to begin with, especially with Order 3. Oni Generals are bad leaders and bad researchers, and they can't really do anything except skellyspam. So with your main mage only able to do one thing well and Order making Oni unattractive options, you reduce your already limited options even more than usual. Sticking with Sorcerers gives you better variety and still gets you a decent number of skellyspammers. If you want to get some Oni Generals on top of that, that's always possible. But again, there's no need at all to take Order 3 for that.

While nations like Lanka can reasonably choose to simply not use their demon troops to get around the Chaos Power problem, Yomi really doesn't have that option because Bandits are awful. You might as well stick to indie troops. If you don't like Turmoil, just get neutral Order scales. With neutral Order, Production and Temperature, and max Growth, you'll still have a respectable income.

>>122784954
>So I did the only thing I could. Ruin the underwater
What did you do?

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Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen.

>>122785604
human controlled player. obviously.

>>122785604
>baron

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>>122785734
>>122785740
Let's up the ante.

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http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=SkellingtonsBeScary
skellingtons r scary.
that's why they aren't allowed in this game, so you should join. please leave your skeleton outside though

>>122785281
I've pillaged 4 of the 10k+ pop underwater provinces to 3k or less and have plans to do the same to my cap. He will still get the gems but I'll be damned if he gets the 30k population income from two caps.

There's a cracked version of 4.22 out right now and a MEGA mirror incoming

>>122785245

I read your description of that game, and it sounds like you were in a pretty good position diplomatically and positionally.

I believe if you attempted to use the oni in a position less estimable than that one, you'd quickly find they weren't meeting your expectations.

In order-3 Yomi, you still use Oni. You use them to expand before your dominion gets to places, and as blockers. They still die and turn into ghosts. Mostly for that purpose, the ko-oni.

What wins battles, though, is sacred skelespam and shadowblast. Gold for gold, they're more effective than armies of oni, and order helps you get over that initial hump of setting up the castles to produce them.

>>122786254
Why would someone play a cracked version? AI is fucking boring, and using a cracked key bans you from llamaserver for life.

>>122786424

Because they have zero money and want to play the game?

Sometimes you need a computer, but spending money on games beyond that is ludicrous, because you don't actually have money to buy food.

>>122784954
That's surprisingly reasonable compared to moving to land where none of my troops can get.

>>122786548
Honestly, it's like downloading a demo. Dominions is only good as a multiplayer game anyway.

>>122786410
>What wins battles, though, is sacred skelespam and shadowblast.
That doesn't cost much gold. If anything, you'd be more helped by Turmoil+Luck to get extra gems, than by Order to get gold. At least with Turmoil your Oni troops can do more than just take a hit and you won't have to rely entirely on skeletons.

>order helps you get over that initial hump of setting up the castles to produce them
I guess that's true, but early game isn't where your money troubles are. Yomi has no problem expanding and their forts are cheap, since you can only build pallisades anyway.

Okay, what's stopping me from doing Plane Swap as a Necromancer and staying in Hades forever? There's basically no possibility of enemy invasion (except by other players who are necromancers or summoned shades), and roaming shades can be fended off by 5 spectral archers per citadel.

Sure, you'll lose HoG income, but you gett all the gold and all the time in the world to launch an invasion at some point.

>>122787018
Please tell me you can also cast a BoT equivalent from there as well.

>>122787467
Necromancer doesn't have that stuff, his forte is immortal casters. Cultist, Voice of El, and Demonologist are BoT-tier.

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Show me your gemmerinos, furfriends

How the hell do you play CoE4 in the early game? You get absolute shit for income, and every time you take something it's taken aways again a few turns later by wandering indies, unless you stay close to protect it.

Later on this is less of an issue, but the early game is incredibly slow and tedious unless you're playing the Troll King which can handle just about anything on his own so you don't have to worry about anything in the early game, and once Mum wakes up you can just put magic trees everywhere to scare away indies.

I'm probably doing something wrong, but the shitty early game is making me not want to play CoE anymore.

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>>122787889

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>>122787889

>>122788079
Pussy.

>>122788150
999 overcast BoT when?

>>122788150
>55 D per turn
how the fuck did you even do that? no one has Well of pestilence up

>>122788247
When the Nexus is down.

Honestly, it's pretty pointless at this stage.

>>122787018

Your non-undead leaders will lose 1 point of health ever turn in Hades until they die, also you can't get new ones because the citadels down there don't allow you to buy them. I guess you could summon new ones, but that requires HoGs, which as you said you won't have an income of.

>>122788298
He's from a different game.

>>122788361
But what about shade, wraith lord, or BANE leaders and spirits? They are natives, aren't they? And can't they just regenerate more than you lose?

>>122788493

Only thing I've gotten so far that seemed like it was supposed to be a leader in Hades was a Ghost Captain and he turned out to be just another units for whatever reason, probably a bug.

>>122788845
But you can get spirits and shades with Raise Legion, and there are mirror battlefields in Hades.

>>122788995

Yeah, but you need 100 Hands to use Raise Legion. If you're staying in Hades, with no holdings up above then you have no Hands.

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Ugh

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>>122787889
>21 nature gems with mother oak active
you suck, man

>>122788079
this is starmonkey.

Also guess who i am.

Anyone be up for all sites revealed, more gems game?

>>122789552
Ching?

>>122789552
no, that one was probably r'lyeh

>>122786604
Losing your cap without another is losing the game. Especially when you are an underwater nation and can only recruit decent shit underwater.

>>122789552
Batman.

>>122789552
how did you know?

>>122789662
tien'china has eternal pyre up, that's 20 fire gems per turn.

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>When you thug your pretender just for fun

Time to kill me some scalies

FURWAR NOW FELLOW PRETENDER

>>122790257
No fire, no air, almost no death.
Astral, earth, water, nature are the paths monkeys can search easily for and do it good.

>>122790531
I've actually got F and D access through sites, no A to be able to search with yet.

>>122790509

DIESTO2SKELESPAMMERS/10

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You killed pyriphlogos, you bastard! with a cowardly MIND HUNT

THROUGH 22 MR

WITH ONLY ONE CAST

Sigh.

Due to your intransigence, i'm forced to teleport demons onto your capital.

However, you'll be happy to note that my blood factories are refresh and the supply of slaves is every increasing.

Also, this guy.

He says hi.

He says you'll be joining him soon, in Tartarus.

Something about the whispers of the damned.

I don't know, the guy seems keen.

What's the most fun faction in CoE4?

>>122791323
CoE4 isn't fun.

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>>122790509
>no head protection

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>>122791375
Fine, I gave him a hat

>>122790980
He's not meant to fight human opponents

He's just going to stomp AI C'tis

>>122790509
>just 18 protection
>6 encumbrance
>no reinvogoration
>those fucking sad paths.

>>122791375

He took the lord of the wild as pan.

b5n2.

He has nfi what he's doing. Let him have fun with his soon to be dead pretender.

>>122791557
Did I mention this is all shit I got for free from events?

And rude! My pretender has more blood than your mom did after a vampire sucked her dry

>>122791628
Rude as FUCK! I bet you're C'tis that went AI

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Rate my SC

>>122791556
The AI will still skelespam if they bother bringing mages

>>122791556
If you give him a Horned Helmet, could he attack with his head twice?

>>122791557

Don't forget the >quickness

That's 12 fatigue a turn, on top of whatever buff spells he's no doubt scripted to cast.

>>122791556

>AI C'tis
>Nation of skelespammers
>AI loves skelespamming
>your pretender is dead

>>122791751
Did you seriously empower that shit twice?

>>122791751
Ring of Regeneration doesn't work on undead IIRC.

>>122791751
Limited regen doesn't work on undead, even not lifeless.

>>122791818
Brilliant! I'll forge one and test this at once

>>122791819
Do you literally think that I, Pangaea, home of the sexiest goat women in all of the world, would allow an AI to keep its casters?

>>122791818
Yes.

>>122791715
It's not rude to help prepare you for the inevitable loss of your awful pretender.

>>122791751
dies to 3 skelespammers.
it's so resilient that you might think about getting the shield that give fireshield so you can fight a certain number of skelespammers/other summoners.

>>122791986
>>122792025

My impression from this thread was that it limited regen worked on non-lifeless undead. http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/undead-and-regeneration

Was it changed in a patch since then?

>>122792210
Just test it with debug mod and report. Takes 5 minutes.

>>122791982

Yes, yes I did. Why? Because fuck you, that's why.

>>122791556
You should get some reinvigoration and regeneration on him

>>122792035

I think your pretender is going to fatigue out and die to PD

I also think a lot of goats are going to get killed by longdead in assassination battles

But you do you, Pan, you do you.

>>122791751

Is that a b9d9n9 bless? Jesus. The SC is serviceable but not exciting. It has flight through buffs, but no real good way to burn through enemy chaff. It probably dies to enough A or F magepower, due to lacking resistances. It's undead, which isn't ideal due to various anti-undead spells. MR is okay. You've spent a lot of gems gearing it. Overall it could easily be worse. Ring of Regen doesn't work on it appparently (I always forget), give it a reinvig item so it can buff and then lose the fatigue.

>>122792343
but anon, 80 gems are a queen of air. they are badass too!

>>122792395
He can already cast personal regeneration, and both some fitting botos and an amulet are being made as we speak!

>>122792563
>Skelespam against H2W2

>>122792783

Perhaps he already has the elemental royalty.

Or is miles away from the research to get them.

Still pointless to have put those paths on that mummy, though. Armour of Flying would have been a better choice.

>>122792783

But I wanted a big flying mummy so that's what I got.

>>122792886
STYMPHALIAN WINGS, FAGGOT

BOOTS OF FLYING, FAGGOT

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>>122792797

I'm sure the dryads will have great fun spamming inaccurate banish until a skeleton chops out their liver.

The correct answer to my assertion was 'swarm'.

I mourn your many dead goats.

>>122792797
>boots + amulet.

that works. but god + 7 items, some of which cost 10 gems each, is a lot for a thug that can't kill or resist anything more than a standard bane with the same items.
i guess that with N2 you can cast that spell that gives him a bunch of elemental resistences, which coupled with high hp and regen will make him resist some air elementals.

>>122793065
Neither of those are viable, m8.
They take important slots he needs.
They also don't give him magic phase movement.

>>122792886

Stymphalian wings, yeah. +5 Fear, Trample, better prot, flying. The reason I hesitated to mention it before is that it stops you getting your insanely heavy bless, which does have regen.

But a charcoal shield and stymphalian wings will wreck so many buttholes that it's almost worth not having the bless.

>>122793239

Why exactly does an anti-army SC need magic phase movement? He's not a counterthug.

>>122746572
CoE isn't multiplayer so who cares? Pick something challenging if you want, don't if you don't.

>>122793426

Not that guy, but presumably because he's an anti-army SC.

Predicting where an enemy army is going to move isn't exactly always reliable, although you can go a long way with siege dudes.