/domg/ - Dominions general

>>122459885
Why would undead need bags of wine?

Second for aboleth traps

>>122460001

the gentleman of the skeletal persuasion is clearly mocking a filthy skinbag for needing things like food and drink

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>>122459885

I'm seriously contemplating staying in all day and figuring out how to play CoE4.

>>122460337
Is it out already? I'm gonna buy the shit out of it.

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>>122460337
>Captain Fug
:DDD

>>122460429

Yea it was supposed to come out a few hours from now but I guess they released it early. I downloaded it an hour ago and already like it more than CoE3, which I admittedly never seriously tried to learn to play.

>>122460493
>>122460337
how's the gameplay of that thing like?

is it a roguelike?

>>122460514

Think of HoMM + Dominions set up as a pseudo-roguelike.

It is turn-based in the same way Dominions is turn-based, with map movement similar to HoMM games.

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>>122460337

For anyone who suffered through the CoE3 battles, it's impossible not to love the huge change in CoE4.

For those who buy CoE4 in the next few days we should try to organize some games in /domg/. Nothing helps the learning process quite so much as getting completely rekt as a group.

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I'm just going to go off the bat and say that CoE4 isn't really that balanced multiplayer wise.
Blood nations blow the fuck out of everyone else in comparison to gem nations.
However, it is really fun in Co-Op or single player where you can go explore the various planes after you conquer Elysium proper.

how do i build an anti-sc sc?

>>122461719
It depends on what it's fighting.
Usually things that give afflictions like flesh eater axe, eyecatcher, axe of hate, etc.

>>122461719
Multiple high-attack dudes with double duskdaggers and winged boots, set to attack large monsters.

Or try tailoring them to your target.

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Gandalf the PD herse solos a pair of fucking ettins.

Cave trolls can't stop a fucking gandalf, is what i'm saying.

>>122461719
Fuck them up with afflictions. Flesh Eater Axe and Eyecatcher are two cheap and plentiful options. Depending on what you are up against, give it quickness or flight (the latter if you need to close the distance quickly, ideally before the SC starts buffing).

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>>122461703

>Blood nations blow the fuck out of everyone else

and that differs from dominions 4 how?

:^)

>>122461719

Claws of Kokytos/Send to Inferno/Gifts of Heaven.

Or just Incinerate and Disintegrate the motherfucker.

It really depends on your paths and whatnot. The two most common paths that teleport (only way to catch a SC) are air and astral. Ergo, steal breath and paralyze will often be used to fite a SC, as well as whatever crosspaths. For counterthugging against SCs, Armour Negating weapons are less necessary in dom4, AP will generally do the trick. Mage bane is an instant win. What I like to do is set up a high-defense guy with a vine shield and have him run in first, while other guys buff themselves with flight, get quickness put on them, etc. Then they go in affterwards, flying and set to 'attack large monsters', with an AP weapon. The vine shield guy will at least hold or rout any PD, and hopefully hold the SC long enough for buff cycles to complete and the others to go in and murder the guy.

Overall, counter-SCs are less effective than just dropping frikkin' meteors on them or sending them to hell. The most common cause of death for SC, by far, is blundering into a mage-supported army.

>>122461970
Because you don't need micro and you get slaves without any unrest or income reduction
Granted, most blood summons with the exception of Priest King and High Priestess can go rogue

>>122461703
Holy hell, Basalt NEET is canon

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I'm loving these descriptions. Looks like the devs had fun writing these.

>>122462015
Sausage please stop

>>122462331
Devs didn't write them, it was Erik and Serra

>>122462505
Oh, I see. Still the point stands, I like the desciptions.

>>122462563
The necromancer and cultist ones are the best

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>>122462505
>Erik and Serra
?

>>122459179

just how many meths did you inject?

>>122461772
>>122461817
>>122461897
i have no blood sadly.

i'm fighting a high prot + vine shield + fire brand pretender that casts mistform and quickness before battle.

axe of hate will be an option but i'm at con 4 at the moment.

so is astral serpent a good idea? it seems cool.
also my thug is priest and i have death blessing, that's probably good, right?

i'm going to build some shit on my thug but i'm not sure how important is protection. Vine shield or charcoal shield?

also ethereal is probably not worth, right?
displacement mail? glamour for free with 19 body protection seems good enough.

strength on misc? attack + fire resist? more prot?

also should I use a fire brand i crafted or frost brand? i have only con 4 but access to air, earth, astral, death, nature and water

>>122461817
isn't double duskdagger too risky? i'm going to get it oneshooted ;_;

>>122461897
i can't find eyecatcher in the inspector


is serpent kryss + astral serpent a nice combo? i was thinking stacking venom was probably worth but i'm a literal noob.

does magic resist work vs fire brands?

>>122460337
mega links would be appreciated

Where on the battlemap does PD spawn?

At the front, the center or the rear?

>>122465298
Center.

>>122465298
>>122465441
Also, they're always set to attack/fire closest.

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with the release of Conquest of Elysium 4, I must once again remind people to AVOID and BOICOT both coe4 and illfraud, for they still haven't changed and pursue in extremely questionable business practices, such as draconian DRM (I don't even have to explain this one), abusive DLC pushing (how many DLC does dom4 have, how many DLC does COE4 already have?), extortion (remember desura), negligence (how long has it been since the last dominions 4 patch?), aggresive marketing (preorder bonuses), religious indoctrination (everything in their games), misogyny and racism (this one deserves it's own full post), and a plethora of other things

Illfraud are horrible devs, pirate all their games, don't support them

>>122465547
indeed. gibe CoE4 mega link plox

>>122465547
Post more pastas like this one.

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>>122465547

has COE 4 been leaked yet?

>>122466132
Not that I can find, anon ;_;

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>be a land nation
>start of the game
>5 provinces in my capring
>2 are underwater
>2 are throne provinces
>the last one has 60+ units on it including heavy cavalry

What have I done to deserve this?

>>122466550

>two provinces in your capring are thrones

praise be

If your expansion strat relies on light infantry and easy tribals, this will happen to you from time to time

I no longer do that pretty much because this

>>122464631

It's called eye.. scooper? Something like that.

Honestly most people are talking about taking down fully geared tarts with layered defenses. A pretender with prot and mistform is mostly a logistical challenge.

Here's some pointers to asking about advice with this sort of thing -

NAME the unit you are trying to use as a chassis for the counterthug

NAME your paths (like, the amount - w1 is different to w3) and nation and god and indy mages, so we know what you can build. Include if you have preferred gemtypes you're looking to spend.

NAME how long you have to set up this counterthug, and what it can potentially fight alongside (armies, mages, PD only, what units)

NAME what the chassis of the SC you're trying to kill is, it's paths, and each item of gear it has

This will allow a tailored battlefield solution.

>double duskdagger too risky

Most things with pretender STR and a fire brand (AP weapon) hitting your counterthug will make it go splat.

Give your counterthug flying or quick movement, and have random troops keep the pretender's attention while the thug sidles in and stabs it a lot of times.

Astral serpent gives extra attacks, although I don't know how poison stacking works in dom4, so I don't know if it'll do decent damage against the pretender. I'd just chuck it on regardless.

Serpent Kryss is not great compared to Duskdagger. Unless you're working with a literal hoburg, the duskdagger is likely to be more effective. Remember, attacks need to do damage to deliver poison. AN bypasses prot entirely.

Fire resist may help you if your thug is in the same square as troop who gets splatted.

>>122464631
>>122467331
A vine whip ought to help keep that pretender disabled. Also consider ice pebble staves to spam numbnessd.

>>122464631

I'd put together two thugs with quickness, 2 duskdaggers, and flight. This is CHEAPESTLY done with water and air mages providing the Quickness and Flight via.. quickness and Gift of Flight. A pit crew really takes the sting out of setting up things like this.

If you have no troops, i'd give a guy two main gauches of parrying, some fire resist (I forget if fire brands make explode when they miss), a cat charm, and send him in one turn before the other two, who i'd try to have come from the sides while he is alone in the front.

Hopefully he tanks the attacks parrying them while the other two murder the flanks.

Ideally you use chaff for this instead, but it can be hard to get the amount of chaff right.

Guys need STR to get out of vines, and ATK to get past pretender defense, so Girdle of Might and I can't think of anything in those paths that gives atk, so just give them a bear claw or something else str-ey.

Depending on MR, it might be easier to put a bunch of Void Eyes on some S mages, and have them spam Paralyze at the pretender for like, actual hours. Then regular troops (or a counterthug) should be able to hack it to death.

>>122467586
Brands always do their AoE damage, that's why they're the premiere thug weapon.

>>122467553

This guy makes a good point. Numbness is an excellent anti-SC weapon against PGs without cold resistance. Similarly, Aim + Lightning Bolt will actually pop mistform and eventually kill the pretender if it's not lightning resistant.

Skelespam will surround the pretender and tie them up until they rout, and if you cut retreats, that's fatal.

And vine whip is an excellent counterthug weapon that I completely forgot to mention.

>>122467715
Take your name off

>>122465547
>misogyny and racism (this one deserves it's own full post)
>there will never be a detailed report on misogny and racism in dominions
They can't keep getting away with it.

>>122467910
Nobody has enough time to do that. I'm sure Hinnom needs a whole essay on that subject alone

This whole sub position is worth a AAR. Too bad I haven't been saving turns.

The tale of the little death/blood/astral hoburgs who could.

Trifurt, are our battles not epic? Have not many of my hoburgmen died, yet they soldier on?

The highlight of this turn was a devil commander, Sear, with a sword of swiftness and a frost brand, fighting a full sized earth elemental to death alongside his horde of blood slaves (most of them died).

He ended by posing with his two remaining bitches, looking generally sexy.

>>122453625
Van may be dead, C'tis and Oceania have been at war from like turn 3.
>>122455751
Magic, or more specifically a site.

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Opinions? I'm leaning towards the wolf.

>>122468969
For me it's been "how many of the choices I made three months ago were shit" this is literally the first game I joined .
Though it has allowed me to try out high end magic, StR mages of 3 death, astral or earth with a ASDE random allows things like spamming earth attack.

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>>122465547
>draconian DRM (I don't even have to explain this one)

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>>122469720
The sons of the old empire are in the lead, with Marignon sailing high above the others.

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>CoE4 out
WELP
DAY 1 BUYRATE

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Somebody with some modding expertise should make a magic item out of this

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>>122470042

Your mages are frankly completely fucking terrifying. If you knew how to use them, i'd have lost a long time ago.

Earthquake my hoburgs. Earthquake my.. earthquake my hoburgs.

EARTHQUAKE MY HOBURGS.

Your fleets of f9 sacreds, while good, are not really meaningful at this stage of the game. If I wasn't embarrassingly short in the pants in terms of preparation, they'd all already be dead.

>>122471083
The F9 sacreds are a holdover from turn 20.

The Divine apostles aren't going to even feel the earthquakes, and I don't have the guards in the right places to escort them into battle.

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>>122470008

They're functionally identical. Standard n9 garmhirding bless. Which I find utterly boring. Expand with vaetti and hirdmen, make that prod actually work.

Or go all in and take a E9N9 bless, show people the TRUE POWER OF BULLSHIT GIANTS.

>>122471364

Your D mages bring chaff with them, the only issue is surviving the EQ, and that's what Marble Warriors + Body Ethereal (astral fathers) is for.

The EQ is to wipe the seige stacks and the tiny, vulnerable hoburg mages providing the buffs that let the apostles win fights. Needs to be turn one, but you have native E5! A lot of it, apparently, so that's REALLY not an issue for you.

Defensive turn-one EQ is horrid, and your huge PD forces me to use actual armies to advance, the kind that hurt when you EQ them before they can put up Army and FWarriors.

Your Earth Attacks stopped my skelespam, though, by killing pretty much all my skelespammers. Very expensive, though, in terms of E gems. Where are your earth kings?

>>122471624
One earth king, whom may have been SLIGHTLY crippled by a random event.

The huge PD was at the start of the AI era, the AI judges where to attack based heavily on PD, but you've killed most of it.

You've half a dozen elemental royalty actually thugged up, which is my main worry.

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>>122471869

Only one actually - Pyriphlogos - but he's doing work.

It's largely that he's backed by Pedoseion, although any Army caster would be doing the same. I just ran out of E boosters, so I used the King of the Bloody Earth instead of a hoburg with shoes. Sarzzig - not a shoestring operation.

Phoenix Pyre + Ethereal + Vine Shield + MR + Fire Shield + Size 6 + 19 base prot + armour prot = actually kinda hard to kill. I can think of how i'd do it with Trifurt, but i'll never tell.

Anyway, hopefully it's been at least fun and epic. You really do have the tools to destroy me like a mook, even now. That big pile of mages is terrifying the pants off me.

>>122467331
>Unless you're working with a literal hoburg, the duskdagger is likely to be more effective. Remember, attacks need to do damage to deliver poison. AN bypasses prot entirely.
Serpent Kryss has AP, it'll consistently do damage even with human strength.

35 damage is also a lot more than what duskdagger will do.

The only real issue is that SCs tend to get regen, and regeneration makes poison extremely ineffective.

>>122470008
i know that N9 can do some decent combat spells but it's nothing exceptional. i'd rather get more scales and an immobile tree.

>>122471431
I'm actually taking the N9 bless to abuse Skratti as communion slaves. A shrouded (werewolf) Skratti will regen 12 hp per turn (and that's before the regen spell and enlargement). This means I can stick every gygja I have in a communion and have them spamming whatever I feel like.

Garmhirdings aren't good enough to take a bless for, I feel.

I'd prefer the wolf mainly to have another throne-capper besides the prophet (I also could grab an UW province and summon bishop fishes, but that's gonna be a lot of work).
Also, it's only a single scale (and a point of dominion), and with Order3, Misf1 or neutral isn't much difference.

If you're instead suggesting dropping N9, see >>122473562

>>122472847
To quote Thomas the Tank Engine, "we'll see" promised the fat controller.

>>122473793
meant for >>122472978

>Move an army into a province seiged by the enemy
>set units inside the castle to break seige
>next turn, only the units that were inside the castle fought the enemy and the units set to move into the province are now inside the castle without having dislodged the enemy army

>>122474294
Was the moving army sneaking?

>>122474560
Nope.

>>122474592
That's weird then. I was 100% sure what you describe shouldn't happen.

>Out of God as "Conquest of Elysium 4" PC full version download release. Because this is still used for Denuvo 64-bit encryption technology, and encryption technology seems to have a new and enhanced upgrade, cracks will be some time, please be patient.

Taken from the 3DM forums translated with google translate, looks like they've upgraded Denuvo again

>>122475132
Wait what the fuck CoE and Dom4 use Denuvo?

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>>122475370
sweet little child, if only you knew how bad things were with Illfraud

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>>122475370
>he doesn't know

Reminder,
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=All_Yesterdays

>>122475691
>>122475947
I-I've been away for almost a year, pls no bully

R'lyeh and batman send your turns faggots

>still waiting for other players to finish their turn
Times zones a shit, a shit!

Can someone pls post his coe4key? I want to play with friends

>>122464335
Maan, that was a just the fruit of a shitload of DUDE WEED LMAO.
ALSO REMOVE STALERS PELAGIA IF YOU STALE AGAIN I AM GONNA WRECK YOUR ASS I SWAR ON ME MUM M8

>>122476691
can somebody post the whole fucking gameplease?

>>122476691
Buy the game.

>>122470675
Can i ask you how you got the graph?

>>122476872
Not him, but I'm not buying something before trying, even if it's from a dev I like. Especially as CoE3 was fun novelty but a crappy game.

>>122477016
I believe that there's a torrent somewhere up but it doesn't have all the updates.

>>122476898
MAGIC!
Place of Prophecy

>>122477121
We're talking about CoE4, anon.

I actually bought CoE3 (before trying, hence the hesitation in buying 4)

>>122473562
When i played jotun i felt that he bless was useless. You waste a lot of scales on giving regen for 5 pearls to Skratti instead of just giving them regen for 10 nature gems. Isn't MOAR MONEY AND GEMS better?

>>122477240
Fugg,Seems I can't read.

>>122476001
Should i join this game as my fifth ongoing game just to meme you all with PELAGIA?

>>122476898

it's the oldest "hack" in the game, you just need to edit your .trn file to have graphs enabled. Everyone does it.

>>122477410
If you've got the time for it, why not?

>>122474294
Join Lotus Clusterfuck better, you maggot.

>>122474294

Uh, this is either a bug, or.. maybe the sieging army tried to sneak? And a different but similar army sneaked in at the same time? uhhh...

>>122477130
Does that place allow you to see other graphs?

BTW for marignon to be first in dom he must have memed someone, doesn anybody know who's getting memed by Mari? I only knew of Van getting memed by Scele and Ermor

>>122477597
The Place only lets me see dominion graphs.
He could have just eaten the territory that Agartha should have got, and someone else's.

>>122476001
Thanks for advertising my game dude, much apreesh.
May have been you that kept putting up Fashionably Late as well.

can commanders use magic items that allow casting spells (like fireball or numbness) and then move or attack?
can they use the spell of the item and an extra spell if they can use magic?

>>122477240
>I actually bought CoE3 (before trying, hence the hesitation in buying 4)
Pretty much this. CoE3 was crap, so I'm not buying CoE4 until they make a decent demo or I get around pirating it.

>>122477410
it'll be sometime before it kicks off

>>122478032

itdepends

R'lyeh please your turn ;_;

>tfw no turns from the games you are in but you can't join a 4th game because it's too much

>>122478032

Nope.

Nope.

There's a trait that lets you cast spells for free and do other stuff, it's like a green pentagram thing, looks kinda like the global symbol. 'innate caster'?

Things that don't have it (and very few things have it) can't do anything other than 1 spell per turn. I'm unsure if quickness means people run forward AND cast spells. I think no, though.

Agartha 2h file received
Bandar Log 2h file received
C'tis 2h file received
Ermor 2h file received
Ashdod 2h file received
Man Waiting for 2h file
Marignon 2h file received
Mictlan 2h file received
Oceania 2h file received
Pangaea 2h file received
Pelagia 2h file received
Vanarus 2h file received
Sceleria 2h file received
T'ien Ch'i 2h file received
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>122476801
Already bought it but fuck Illfraud for wanting different keys for multiplayer
Game without key
https://mega DOT nz/#!tYpynQRQ!zOqMSbX4hVvZr__8e4otWVhytJXuPcnB1EgeLichmZo

>>122478140

Bitch i'm in 6 games.

Learn to do your turns quick.

>>122473796

I am ready and waiting.

Join me in death, brother.

>>122478140
Stalewarriors at some point is going to be the only game you'll have time playing.

>scripting a thousand mages and 50 armies

>>122478247

hover over orders.

ctrl-1. or ctrl-7, 8, 9, you get the idea.

hover over other orders.

press 1. or 7, 8, 9.

Voila! The orders are copied.

If you're intricately scripting each army for maximum synergiesgies, well, okay.

I MAINTAIN THAT YOUR AUTISM IS UNNECESSARY THOUGH.

>>122478017
>>122478107
i THINK I WILL JOIN, but only if the game is going to start before december

>>122477272
I can sort of see where you're coming from, but I really want to try the gimmick.

Also, N9 shroud doesn't exclude ring of regen. That's 27 hp of regen. Running a 27 master communion off two slaves sounds fun.

>>122478247
i decided to join a fourth one, yolo

>>122478237
Thank you anon.
>inb4 dolphin porn

That's useless, you're wasting 10 nature gems instead of just adding 2 skratti and also giving all your masters another level in their paths.

>tfw you spam turn resend because you are bored but the guy gets triggered and gets mad as hell
s-sorry, i just wanted to play my autistic game, i didn't want to harm you, r'lyeh.

>>122479251

Wow, you're literal scum.

I'm not r'lyeh, by the way.

>>122479042
I know, anon. It was a silly example to illustrate the theoretical power of this gimmick.

>>122470946
the math is bad. Complete exsanguination is rare, and iron isn't limited to the blood. You could get some from the liver.

>>122476801
I like illwinter too much for that.

>>122479042
slave fatigue doesnt work like that. The extra 2 slaves will not add more possible masters.

>>122479251
don't do that. I get sending turn once as a reminder, but doing it repeatedly is just spam that clogs up llama and irritates people who may have a legitimate reason for not having taken their turn yet.

>>122478237
It works, but without a key every player will lose after the first turn.

>>122478237
>different keys for multiplayer
this is exactly what they did for dominions 4. the game we are playing.

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>>122480327
Yeah i know. Took ages finding these keys for friends who were "too poor" to afford the game and now I've got the same problem with CoE4.

>>122480327

When you charge a bazillion dollars, forever, for reiterations of the same game made by two guys in their garage, and then build in obtuse and byzantine dlc so people can't even play a game on LAN with their buddies without having weird continuous errors, it is reasonable for people to get mad.

>>122479523

>I like illwinter too much for that.

I'm not sure how not providing a copy of the game for people to try, which will create far more purchases than it prevents (see: demos, see: steam sales/free weekends), is 'liking illwinter'.

I'll note that I don't play CoE or particularly want to, and own the copy of dom4 that I use. Illwinter's sales policy is counterproductive and a pile of grognardy wank, though.

Damn, my pretender picked a great turn to show up. Can't even grab gems from the lab, earthquake would be mint right now.

>>122480906
There's a substantial difference between free weekend games and a permanent free copy. A game free for a weekend creates an interest, and then gives you the choice of purchasing/not purchasing to pursue that interest. The vast majority of pirated copies, however, do not result in sales.

Hell, we saw it in domg - the vast majority of the people who pirated only bought a copy after they were no longer provided with pirated copies.

I agree the game is priced too high, but that argument isn't one that is consistent with an argument that people want to try it out. If it is too high, people who think it is too high now are likely to think it's too high to spring for - but that won't stop them from begging for unique cdkeys so they can 'try out multiplayer' too.

there a modding manual for coe4 yet?

>>122481341
>The vast majority of pirated copies, however, do not result in sales.
[citation needed]

>>122481341

The vast majority of demos don't result in sales, either. That's how marketing WORKS.

Games that have free weekends, demos, or even get pirated tend to attract larger audiences and have larger overall sales than similar games that don't get that attention.

This is the whole 'argument for piracy' - that pirates wouldn't have bought the game in the first place, but due to pirating it, they decide they want a patched version to play online mp or to support the developer, and they buy it. It's certainly happened to me more than once.

The counter argument to that is 'every pirate would have bought the game if pirate copy wasn't available!' which is manifestly untrue.

There's no good data, but sales figures tend to indicate games that get pirated experience higher aggregate sales /after/ getting pirated, and the sales do not noticeably slump in /any/ example of a game being pirated. Whether that's a chicken/egg thing, though, is too hard to say definitively.

>>122481658
I thought CoE4 wasn't moddable yet?

>>122481886
well shit if that's true

Agartha Waiting for 2h file
Bandar Log 2h file received
C'tis Waiting for 2h file
Ermor 2h file received
Ashdod Waiting for 2h file
Man 2h file received
Marignon Waiting for 2h file
Mictlan Waiting for 2h file
Oceania Waiting for 2h file
Pangaea Waiting for 2h file
Pelagia 2h file received
Vanarus Waiting for 2h file
Sceleria Waiting for 2h file
T'ien Ch'i 2h file received


Doing your turn asap... ISHYGDT

>>122482150

You know, i'd intentionally upload turn on the timer if you were doing this shit in a game I was in.

That kind of autistic shit is just.. deeply discouraging.

Join some fucking games if there isn't enough turns for your liking.

>>122481970
welp, theres a mod folder in roaming just like coe3 but no way to enable ingame

so much for that

>>122481341
>we saw it in domg - the vast majority of the people who pirated only bought a copy after they were no longer provided with pirated copies.
Do you have a single fact to back this up?

>>122481724
research on this is hard, as you need data on illegal activities which people do not accurately self report.

However, there was a case for World of Goo, which was released DRM free, and they found that something like 90% of copies were pirated. This suggests that most of those pirates did not later buy the game.

>ibf but World of Goo was a bad game
that's not a good counter argument. The game had a free demo, so this was not an example of people wanting to try it then deciding not to buy. It's people deciding they didn't want to pay.

Relying on anecdotal evidence. the people I know who pirated games never pirated games they intended to buy.

>>122481886
>>122482873
PAID MODS
A
I
D

M
O
D
S

>>122481883
both arguments are untrue, because they both claim to be universal.

100% of people who pirate the game wouldn't have bought if they didn't pirate, but neither would 0%.

Evidence is hard to acquire, given again illegal activity, but in cases with free demo AND pirates, where it can reasonable assumed the piracy was to avoid paying and had little to know effect on people simply trying the game, piracy was still quite common.
Piracy is in part, just to avoid paying for a game they wanted.

While there is an argument for 'piracy does not substantially hurt the game sales', the argument that 'me being a pirate helps the game' is largely specious. What evidence there is suggests that people who pirate buy less games, even controlling for available income.

>>122483418
Day 1 DLC
a
y

1

D
L
C

>>122483706
>What evidence there is suggests that people who pirate buy less games, even controlling for available income.
I've actually heard the opposite.

>>122480739
>friends who were "too poor" to afford the game
man, I have one of those who I want to get into the game, but we can't play with my cd key.

C-could I borrow one of those if you aren't going to use it?
It's very likely that even if your friend plays with it and mine does too, they will never meet in a game so there will be no problem.

confirmed for retard.

>>122483706

I liked the look of dom3, but the demo was a pile of shit that gave no insight on the meat of the game, which is MP.

I pirated a copy, someone gave me a key, I tried the game, and later bought it. Three times (yay for shrapnel being a pile of shit).

Now I own dom4.

This has not been a unique experience for me. Given the wild, unrivaled success of _lowering the threshold of buy-in to product_, in terms of demos, in terms of sales, in terms of trials, in terms of short term incentives or free periods, and given that all academic evidence points to that if you have any sort of product anyone wants (and aren't trying to trick people into buying a useless pile of non-working dogshit), you should place the price point as close to the cost of reproduction and wastage as you possibly can, which for software via steam, is very close to zero, what it comes out as is 'piracy is free advertising for the game, and a high price simply lowers your profits, rather than increasing them'.

> What evidence there is suggests that people who pirate buy less games, even controlling for available income.

[citation needed]

I've looked into this extensively and found no reliable data - what data there is tends to be published by the 'war3z ahoy association' or the 'Anti Piracy Lobby of Protestant White America, God Bless'.

If I had any data worth mentioning i'd link it. As is, all I can offer is academic and professional marketing experience, which is somewhat hard to condense into a single link.

The fact is, there's two kinds of sales. The first is sizzle, the second is steak. If you're selling sizzle, piracy is anathema. If you're selling steak, it's free word of mouth marketing that can increase your sales by actual multiples of your base profit.

Dominions is pretty clearly steak. Trying to sell it like it's sizzle or a non-software product is actual insanity.

>>122484146
34817-4096-1589-5761-274
>inb4 spoonfeeding pirates
got this one from the old /domg/ MEGA version
someone plz giv DoE4 key

>>122479251
We should spam rlyeh more before he casts burden of time.

Hey there Agartha. We are fine, right?
I'm keeping Inner kingdom gate and Halls of Srenecab and the inner kingdom itself, but I won't bother you more, you can take the rest of the underworld.

There is a Ulm AI to the south of where we are at the moment, but he is totally not going to bother you too.

>>122484927
there are very good arguments for having good demos, that reflect the actual game, and keeping drm unintrusive as that can keep games from selling more than would be lost to piracy.

and again, this is just about the hardest thing to get good statistical data for, as it got basically all the factors you can possibly get to make survey response be inaccurate.
The only thing it doesn't have is difficulty of reaching survey recipients. So yes the research is pretty crap in general.

The stake vs sizzle argument doesn't work here as well, because with games it's possible make a game of good quality that is intended to provide 8-20 hours of enjoyment. This accounts for a fair number of indie games, many of which are priced appropriately for that amount of enjoyment.

The problem is, that's in the 'sizzle' range or time played, despite it being in the stake range of quality.

Again, data is pretty lacking, but one of the few example is World of Goo, where they let pirates do whatever they want, including connecting to the online leaderboards. And had a free demo that was the first act of the game basically. When they checked the numbers on the online leaderboard vs sales the discrepancy was massive.
So in at least this majority of people were stealing the game with no intention of purchase.

It's a single case, but the evidence is against "piracy leads to sales" pretty strongly. And it does get around the self reporting problem.

>>122485217
thanks based anon.
i couldn't find it myself, and i tell you i tried. anyway i have my own dom4 key, i swear

>Read a few generals want to play the game
>its fucking 31.99 euros
This game goes on sale right?

>>122487250
It gets at least 50% off with every major steam sale, sometimes 75%.

>>122487250

You can probably get it on G2a for a bit less.

>>122487250
went for like 13 or 14 beaverpelts during the summer sale

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tfw no coe4 key

>>122487250
will probably go on sale during black Friday if you don't mind waiting a week or two

>>122487573
iktf

>>122487347
>>122487381
>>122487425
>>122487576
Cheers guys

Thanks Ermor, I'm glad I didn't go after the army I'd soundly defeated and killed his god in because you decided that province lacked skeletons.

>>122485807

The problem with that world of goo example is the same problem with the examples typically quoted.

There is no evidence - none - that any of those pirates would have bought a copy of World of Goo, or any other pirated game, if a pirated copy did not exist.

There's also no evidence - again, none - that World of Goo would have sold more copies if those pirated copies were not disbursed - there's equally no evidence that they didn't sell extra copies due to those pirated editions creating market awareness of the game.

This is in effect the logical basis by which I feel your example does not actually provide proof for your argument - it does not actually prove the key proposition - that each or even a fraction of pirated copies of games are a 'lost' sale - much less that marketing value of those fractional lost sales is less than the value of the fractional lost sale, which is the further argument you're also making.

I played a bit of world of goo, I don't know where. It did not impress me. At all. The art was kitschy, but the actual game was lacklustre at best. If it had had dominions' distribution method and lack of marketing, I /very much doubt/ it would have received the critical acclaim and sales figures it did. In gaming, exposure is the primary determinant of quality. If a lot of people play your game, IGN will give it 10/10. Unlike film and music, there is no real critique (lately there's been some faint signs of actual games journalism and critique, but i'm not holding my breath).

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>>122487945
Also, goodbye Van, we shall not miss the fact you asked me to attack Ermor and Ermor to attack me at the same time.

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Kero~

>>122477554
Neither army can sneak around, I'm trying to figure out what happened.

>>122488073
>there is no evidence
well, you can't get that direct evidence.

And again, game quality doesn't matter here, because there was a free demo. If you tired it and didn't like it, you would neither buy or pirate it. People who pirated it wanted the full game, and didn't want to pay money. There was no 'try before you buy' argument to be had. Similarly, I don't see how those pirate copies could have increased awareness given that there was a free demo with the full first section of the game. For it to spread awareness there'd have to be strong word of mouth advertisement about the quality of the later part of the game.

I won't say it's conclusive evidence, but it is evidence in favor. The percent of game sales lost to pirates is clearly between 0% and 100%. saying that it's 0% is just as foolish as saying it's 100% imho.

The World of Goo example does show that when people are given the option to completely avoid paying for a game without consequences, a large number will do so. Not to try it, but to avoid paying for it ever. It's single data point, but it is a data point suggesting against pirates as future paying customers.

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>>122488925

>>122489030
It's not evidence either way, and trying to claim it is without numbers backing it up (which are of course impossible to get) is ridiculous.

Maybe they would've sold more if the game was never pirated. Maybe they would have sold less. Maybe it doesn't make any difference at all. I don't know, you don't know, and your claiming otherwise is purely a product of your prejudice rather than the logical conclusion you're presenting it as.

>>122489030
>>122489261
Pirates usually never plan on buying the game in the first place so what's the point

If I find a throne of Autumn underwater, can I recruit Mages of Autumn there?

>>122489432
No.

>>122489406
that's definitely not true.
I've pirated games I've already bought before.

>>122489432
http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/
Lazy fuck.

>>122488460
Not in your game, but was he like "Yeah bro, I'm totally going to fight the other undead guy help me out I'm going in" or was he just gauging interest? Because if he knows that he needs to fight one of you guys, it makes sense to check to see which of you (if either of you) is actually down to help. If he was explicitly saying that you should attack to set up a war, then fuck him.

Either way, thanks for removing elves, doing the pankoman's work, etc.

>>122489030
>The World of Goo example does show that when people are given the option to completely avoid paying for a game without consequences, a large number will do so.
Nobody is disputing that, but you can't just assume they would have bought the game if there was no pirate version, and you can't give pin a number on how many people have bought the game, but wouldn't have done so unless they played the pirate version first.

The existence of a demo changes absolutely nothing about that. You don't download a demo unless you already know about the game, and plenty of people learn about new games through pirate sites. I've been an example of that myself several times. The last game I pirated (Thea: The Awakening) I ended up buying after playing it for a few hours. I didn't even know the game existed until it popped up on BlackCats. Hell, the reason I'm addicted to Dominions (and own a legal copy, natch) right now is because I played a pirate version first.

I'm not saying I'm the norm, I'm just saying there are two sides to the argument, and you're ignoring that. Besides, >>122489406 is mostly right and the majority of pirates never intends to buy the game in the first place, so counting pirate downloads as a "lost sale" is a ridiculous tactic used only by publishers desperate for a reason why their game isn't making more money.

>>122489406

Personally, I ended up purchasing Dominions 4 recently, and I sure as fuck would have never been willing to pay that much for this sort of game if I wasn't able to play the pirated version.

I bought CoE3, didn't really think it was worth it, but kinda want to give CoE4 a try to see if it's significantly better. I'd do that with a demo if there was a decent one, but otherwise I'm probably looking at piracy.

>>122489261
it's a bit of the streetlight problem, to go into statistics jargon, where we have to use what evidence we can gather than conclude from there.

There is basically no reliable way to gather evidence about whether those who pirated would have bought if they didn't pirate. Because it would relying on survey evidence about people self reporting there alternate or future decision about something that has a normative bias, and every bit of evidence suggests that people do not honestly self report that.

So we have to to a secondary analysis. What we do have is evidence of people when presented with the option between paying for a game, pirating it, or not getting the full game at all, with the ability to try to game without paying or pirating, far more people pirate than pay.

We can reasonably conclude that the pirating was not going to lead to future purchase, because the things that would lead to future purchases (try before you buy, additional features or updates only available with purchase, etc) were not present. Given that, those were clearly pirate instead of purchase.

So we do have clear evidence of that 'pirate instead of purchase' is a very real thing when piracy is easy. This does in fact undermine part of the argument for 'piracy doesn't hurt purchasing', because that argument does hold 'pirates will later purchase' as a premise, but we clearly see in at least one case that premise is not true.

There is a large group of pirate who don't do it to try games, but simply to not pay for them. We at the very least have evidence of this.

There a valid arguments for both sides. And by valid I mean in the logical sense of having true conclusions IF the premises are true. So investigation needs to look at the truth value of the premises. The World of Goo case provides evidence about the truth value of one of those premises. So it is part of a logical argument.

>>122490358
>What we do have is evidence of people when presented with the option between paying for a game, pirating it, or not getting the full game at all, with the ability to try to game without paying or pirating, far more people pirate than pay.
Nobody is arguing against this.

>We can reasonably conclude that the pirating was not going to lead to future purchase, because the things that would lead to future purchases (try before you buy, additional features or updates only available with purchase, etc) were not present. Given that, those were clearly pirate instead of purchase.
This is bullshit. It's probably a minority, but there are plenty of people who buy a game after they pirate it and like it. Either so they can actually own it or to show their support of the developer.

>So we do have clear evidence of that 'pirate instead of purchase' is a very real thing when piracy is easy. This does in fact undermine part of the argument for 'piracy doesn't hurt purchasing', because that argument does hold 'pirates will later purchase' as a premise, but we clearly see in at least one case that premise is not true.
No, you don't. You haven't brought forth a single valid argument suggesting that those pirates would have bought the game if they couldn't download it illegally. It's just your own massive bias blinding you.

>There is a large group of pirate who don't do it to try games, but simply to not pay for them. We at the very least have evidence of this.
True, but once again nobody is saying otherwise. What you need to prove to make your ridiculous argument stick isn't that they pirate instead of buying, it's that pirating leads to lost sales. Or, conversely, that not being able to pirate leads to increased sales.

>The World of Goo case provides evidence about the truth value of one of those premises.
No, it does not. Once again this is your bias, not facts. The only thing you can prove is that many people pirate instead of pay, but that's not being questioned.

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You want straight up proof that piracy leads to increased sales instead of decreased?

Here it is.

Go google it. Underground was selling like shit until it got dumped on /co/.

>>122489030

A lot of demos, even of good games, are designed to try to 'show the game in a good light' - and are not an accurate representation.

Your argument hinges on 'lost sales', something which has been the catchcry of every industry since forever for poor performance or poor product. It's only a real thing in a captive market with a specific and limited audience. In a software environment, especially a digital distribution /billion user/ software environment like gaming, it's the opposite of real.

It doesn't matter why people are pirating games.

It matters whether pirating of games affects the bottom line of developers in any manner other than positively. There's ancillary proof that it /doesn't/, and absolutely no proof whatsoever that it does.

The circular argument of 'lost sales' is not proof. It's not even.. plausible under any economic theory whatsoever.

The 0-100% thing you're talking about is the middle of the road fallacy, by the way. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation) The extremes of the 'percentage scale of lost sales' both assumes the existence of lost sales and that the amount is most likely to fall in the middle of the % range, which again there is no proof for. It's disingenuous.

The entire argument you're making is a false dichotomy anyway. Pirated copies of games = lost game sales. When there's no proof of something, and it's not even likely (most people who pirate games are too poor to buy them, or aren't interested in buying that specific game or genre of game), saying that it directly controls another variable would cause you to fail any number of courses. Most notably, logic and statistics.

>>122490994
>This is bullshit. It's probably a minority, but there are plenty of people who buy a game after they pirate it and like it. Either so they can actually own it or to show their support of the developer.
then why would they pirate it instead of getting the free demo that was readily available?
The only argument I've seen for this is they were on a pirate site, decided to go through pirating rather than check out the game site and get the demo.

>No, you don't. You haven't brought forth a single valid argument suggesting that those pirates would have bought the game if they couldn't download it illegally. It's just your own massive bias blinding you.
read the actual sentences I wrote. I'm presenting evidence against one of the premises, 'pirate will later purchase'. Not evidence for 'pirates would have purchases if they couldn't pirate'.

I'm doing this because its functionally impossible to get evidence for or against that premise. This isn't bias, this is trying to find what evidence I can so I can actually form conclusions.

>The only thing you can prove is that many people pirate instead of pay, but that's not being questioned.
it's part of the argument for 'piracy increases sails'. And yes, this premise is used, often.

Once we get that there is a precentage who pirate instead of pay, and that there is a percentage who would pay if they couldn't pirate (any percentage greater than 0% works), we have to go to a new argument. One that compares percentages.

And in that argument the ease of piracy, and the invasiveness of the drm are both important calculations.

>>122490358

See the thing is, here, you've made an argument.

'When presented with the opportunity to pirate a game rather than pay for a game, people pirate the game, and don't pay money for the game they otherwise would have paid.'

Then you try to use this piece of evidence to prove it.

'A lot of people pirated world of goo.'

The causal link you are missing is that you are assuming that each pirated copy of world of goo would otherwise have been bought.

You're ignoring parts /of your own assertion/ in order to make that example fit as evidence.

This kind of simplistic thinking is why the suicide rate for economics and statistics professors is so incredibly high (just under dentists).

there's 2 kinds of pirates

the ones that admit it's bad

and the ones that try to argue it's not bad

guess which ones are the most annoying

>>122489406
I'd never have bought Dom4 if there wasn't a pirate version around.

>>122491805
>then why would they pirate it instead of getting the free demo that was readily available?
Any number of reasons. Maybe they didn't know about the demo. Maybe they wanted the full game and not a developer-chosen slice of it. Maybe they just thought grabbing a torrent was easier.

>I'm presenting evidence against one of the premises, 'pirate will later purchase'.
Then you've already lost the argument, because even if it's a minority some pirates do buy games. Myself included.

>it's part of the argument for 'piracy increases sails'. And yes, this premise is used, often.
>sails
Heh.

Anyway, just because more people pirate than buy doesn't mean anything as long as you don't have any way to tell what fraction of buyers is also pirates and vice-versa. And unless you can show something like that, your argument is pure bullshit.

>Once we get that there is a precentage who pirate instead of pay, and that there is a percentage who would pay if they couldn't pirate (any percentage greater than 0% works), we have to go to a new argument. One that compares percentages.
First of all, that's entirely impossible so it doesn't change the argument in any way. Second, you're still ignoring that there's a percentage who would have never bought the game (maybe didn't even know about it) if it wasn't for piracy. Your willful denial in this matter just shows how strong your bias is and how dishonestly you're portraying this matter.

Simply put, you have no evidence except what you made up or what stories you've been fed by publishers (who are obviously not impartial in this and have a strong reason to lie about it), you're ignoring evidence that contradicts your claims, and you don't even have a solid argument to begin with.

What are you even hoping to accomplish?

>>122489432
You can, but they'll drown in the same turn you get them.

>>122491805

>then why would they pirate it instead of getting the free demo that was readily available?

Demos are often extremely short or showcase the best parts of a game and don't accurately reflect the experience. The trailer for a movie is not the movie.

If you like a game a little bit, you might just keep playing the pirated version, as you don't like it enough to actually buy it.

There, that's two reasons. There's more, too. Like 'can't afford it yet but want to start playing it'. So forth.

I've bought games after finishing them. Like Bioshock Infinite. Partially so I could play it again, but mostly because I enjoyed it the first time.

> read the actual sentences I wrote. I'm presenting evidence against one of the premises, 'pirate will later purchase'. Not evidence for 'pirates would have purchases if they couldn't pirate'.

And here we have backpedaling. You have asserted multiple times that games pirated = lost sales. Don't backpedal. It makes you look like a complete idiot, for one thing. If you're wrong, or changing your argument, admit you're wrong or changing your argument. Don't try to sneakily say 'hur I was saying <different thing> this whole time'.

> Once we get that there is a precentage who pirate instead of pay, and that there is a percentage who would pay if they couldn't pirate (any percentage greater than 0% works), we have to go to a new argument. One that compares percentages.

You're assuming these as a given.

You have yet to provide any evidence.

'It's common sense' is not evidence. As multiple people disagree with you, clearly it is NOT a commonly accepted fact. That many game developers with lacklustre sales figures want something to be the case, doesn't actually make it the case. The MPAA's press releases are not actually economic fact.

>>122492115
The people who argue that piracy is bad are the most annoying.

>>122491434
>middle of the road fallacy.
I'm actually trying to avoid it.

I'm fairly certain that we can both agree that completely preventing piracy of games is impossible, piracy will exist, and even for a particular game, is likely impossible.

However, I'm proposing that there is a factor be considered, 'ease of piracy'.

If decreasing ease of piracy has an effect on the precentage of 'pirate instead of purchase' and the draw of the game is enough that those would still purchase, that's an increase in sale. I feel there is a strong argument for this. Clearly the increase in sales will not equal the number of pirates, or even just the decrease in 'pirate instead of purchase'. It doesn't need to.

So the question is instead, does this increase in sales cover the cost of the drm, the lose of sales due to the drm, and whatever the positive value for piracy has on sales.

Indeed even if you assume there is a positive effect of piracy on sales, reducing ease of piracy does not necessarily reduce this number, or reduce more than bonus sales you might get from reducing ease of piracy.

I'm not actually making a strict anti-piracy argument. I'm arguing that it can be the proper economic decision to reduce ease of piracy. The proper solution going forward will have to consider both the positive and negative aspects of piracy on sales, and drm on sales. And a purely positive spin on piracy in relation to sales is as false as a purely negative.

>CoE4
What map/enemy settings are best?
Anybody found the entrances to other planes yet?

>>122492612
because it contradicts your childish and autistical world view?

>>122492617
>I feel there is a strong argument for this.
Then why haven't you presented that "strong argument"?

So far all you've done is spout your unfounded opinions.

>>122492617

Okay, so you're actually just retarded.

Multiple people have said that you have to actually prove the existence of 'pirate instead of purchase', instead you're making engrish sentences like

> However, I'm proposing that there is a factor be considered, 'ease of piracy'.

So, i'm done.

Continue to believe your crazy fallacy-laden whatever that makes a mockery of generations of academic work in economics.

No worse than christianity, I guess.

>>122492761
No, because they are as obnoxious as vocal atheists that can't keep their shit to themselves.

>>122488925
>flying
wot?

>>122492617
Please explain why this documented evidence directly contradicts everything you've been trying to say: >>122491369

>>122492115
It depends.

>>122492950
Your right I should have presented it.

Premise 1: There are people who pirate games who have the free income to purchase at least some of the games they pirate.
2:of these, some will purchase games depending on various factors
3: alturistic desires such as 'desire to support the publisher' is not the only factor
Conclusion:
Non-alturistic factors exist that cause people who pirate games to purchase instead of pirate(a).

I will admit that premise 2 something I don't have direct evidence for, but there is enough evidence for non-altruistic factors in economic decision making I don't have a problem proposing it.

>>122493091
>engrish sentence
I left out the 'to" in 'to be considered'. Otherwise that sentence is perfectly well constructed. It's how you introduce new factors in an argument.

>>122493404
it doesn't conteradict what I'm saying. It's a factor in the positive effect of piracy, which I've granted.
However, given that it doesn't say what game this was for, I don't know how to factor it in.
The effect of piracy would clearly be different for different types of games.


Oh, and to be clear, I pirate shit. Less than I used to, but still do. I just oppose the argument for the purely positive effect of piracy on sales in all cases. If we wish to replace the inaccuracy of the purely negative model, we need to accept that the accurate model will include both a negative and positive effects.

>>122493983

Has anyone got that 'rear back your heavy head and howl - it depends' pic from that one webcomic

>>122494818
>Non-alturistic factors exist that cause people who pirate games to purchase instead of pirate(a).
True, but entirely irrelevant.

Stop trying to move the goalposts. Either present an argument why piracy results in lost sales (or the opposite, why no piracy or difficult piracy results in increased sales - they're two sides of the same coin after all), or just admit that you're wrong.

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>>122494854

No-one has that pic? Dammit.

so the senator can now become the God Emperor

pretty sweet desu

>>122495370
Yeah, there's also a God Empress

>>122495470
oh shit, didn't even seen that option

thanks

>>122495353
I know the one you're talking about, but I don't have it.

The panel was from Paranatural, if that helps.

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>>122495287

Seriously, just stop engaging.

Brisk walking speed is your best ally here.

It took a mental wrench to stop confronting his dishonest arguing tactics, but it was entirely worth it. Now i'm sipping coffee and feeling alright instead of boiling over with frustrated rage.

>>122495470
so is she not supposed to actually learn any new spells when she ascends or is this likely a bug?

>>122495470
>>122495556
Yeah, the lore behind the Empire's mages are pretty cool. The Renatas and Renatus being a reference to the Bene Gesserit and Paul Atreides/Duncan Idaho respectively is pretty rad

Why is Elysium such a shit place to live? It's like someone combined the crime of Detroit with the wildlife of the Australian outback and put them all in one place.

>people defending piracy
>still no coe4 key in thread

further proof that people who defend piracy are a bunch of NEETs who just want shit for free

>>122496156

The australian outback is kinda like the world in the walking dead. Dangerous stuff is there, but it's people that are the real danger.

>>122496156
apparently cause nature magic is evil in the lore and when the one magic that's supposed to be even remotely good/helpful goes bad, everyone is now completely fucked

>>122496269
I have a beta download that requires no key and comes from a zip file
It's not updated though

>>122489406
>pirated dominions 4
>bought dominions 4

and i knew you could theorically ask for someone else copy and play like that.

>>122496329

Why is nature magic good? Pretty much all the sorcery paths are kinda creepy.

And every path of magic has super creepy spells and also 'fuck the world ungently' spells.

>>122496269

Too bad they didn't get born upper middle class+, get the sweetest jobs due to knowing people who know people who like the way you look and talk, do literally zero work and get paid the megabucks.

I say this as someone currently benefiting from this system. It's much nice I say what what.

If I had a CoE key i'd hand it out, but i'm not paying illfraud for coe as I dislike it, and i'm not giving them free money because I disapprove of their business practices. If they lowered the price, i'd buy copies for people I don't know, just because I think people should get to play the game.

>>122496493

I pirated Dom 4 because I never heard of the devs and it was $40 and not on steam at the time.

I ended up liking it and bought it so I could play multiplayer. I plan on doing the same thing to conquest 4 if someone posts a key.

>>122495816
well that just confirmed senator for my favorite class

didn't even make the connection till you said it

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>turn 2
Errytime.

>holy 3 hero onaqui that can reanimate undead

should I make him my prophet so he is holy 4 for fanatism (xibalban warriors want it) or should I prophet other commander so i have 2 divine blessing armies?
also a holy 4 onaqui can reanimate more undead, right?

>>122496815
Yeah, without a working key that shit happens.

>>122496843
You can stick one of your mage-priests in a communion to get fanaticism.

>>122464641
This

>>122495287
>>122495610
>dishonest and moving goalposts.
neither has happened. I'll admit I wasn't clear at first that I'm not saying that I think overall I think piracy results in a total loss of sales.

All I've ever intended to argue for was that there is some number of people who pirate a game rather than purchase it, who would be push to purchase it if it became more difficult to pirate it, or to fully enjoy a pirated copy.
Casual pirates basically. Those who pirate because it's easy.

The point I've always intended to make is that the relationship between piracy in sales is not purely positive, any more than it is purely negative. It's a complex problem, because there isn't a single demographic who pirates, but a broad range, who do it for different reasons.

saying 'just ignore piracy, there is nothing you can do to effect it' or 'just ignore piracy, it's only doing good things', are not arguments that the game industry is going to accept. Firstly, because they aren't true, but secondly because it presents them no options for increasing sales.

If we want to create honest talk about piracy with the game industry, we need to talk about it honestly. Which includes talking about the negative aspects. People will be willing to accept that there are positive aspects when they feel you are talking honestly because you admit the negative aspects as well.

>>122496625
well comparatively speaking if you go by dom magic, nature is the nicest in that it has globals and rituals that aren't "kill everything/everyone that isn't me" also healing magic and shit

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>>122497108
u wot m8

>>122497708
wtf, really?

I'm using the mega link some anon provided above-thread, and I thought that shit was a sort of copy protection, similar to Dom4 red screen.

>>122497372
read the thread >>122478237

By the way, using that link the game starts, but on turn 2 every players dies. I thought that had something to do with not having a cd-key, but from the looks of it (>>122496815
>>122497708) it might be something else.

>>122496843
unless you are in dire need of fighting undead nations ( and you still can cast fanaticism with communions or cast Earthquakes) i'd say it's cooler to have more holy 3 units.
you want holy 3 units to go around and bless giant demon armies turn 1 since your bless needs to come up asap against evocation.
by making one powerful mage your prophet you are also wasting one mage turn to put up divine blessing when he could have casted cool shit( i assume he's a good mage) like darkness or skelespam or harm.
i don't know if reanimating undeads is based on death or holy levels, but it's not amazing so who cares about improving it. if i had to prophetize a mage i would prohetize a blood 2 death 1 mage so he would be able to put himself easily in a super small blood communion if you want to cast fanaticism or just continent-size banishment.

>>122497226
wait what? i didn't know holy worked like that

>>122498123
I see that, your daddy gave you good DRM

>>122498407
Holy magic works like any other path of magic when stuck into a communion.

>>122498567
wat

>>122498407
holy is just a path of magic with a small selection of spells, no gems exising, no research bonus, and "holy mages" also have the sacred tag. i don't think it's treated any different than this.

Why hasn't someone bought the game, posted the key here and gotten a refund through Steam yet?

>>122498641

It's just the anti-piracy wanklord being autistic, disengage and disregard.

>>122498123
>but on turn 2 every players dies
One out of 12 or so.
It's just incompetent AI like in CoE3.

>>122498749
No man, at least not in my case. Every time I've tried to start a game with the "pirated" (key-less) version linked above, on turn 2 everybody (me included) gets defeated (nothing attacks my fort) while the "brackets" around units and sites turn black.

As apparently another anon with a bought copy has the same problem, this could be a bug.

Anybody else has tried the above-posted mega link for CoE4? Do you have the same problem.

>>122499275
Same problem.

>>122498683
priests need a path in magic other than holy in order for it to be boosted by being in a communion

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>>122497864
>>122498123
>>122498749
>>122499275
you morons, he added the mega game to steam and took a screenshot, you can do that with any game, pic related

he's messing with you, we still need a key

>>122500820
Oh. Well then, my bad for not knowing what you can or cannot do on steam.

How doesn't this guy realise that piracy is a good thing? Who actually bought this game without playing the pirated version first? It looks like a ridiculously overpriced freeware game if you're unaware of the depth.

>>122501183
>Who actually bought this game without playing the pirated version first?
I bought it after I saw someone on /v/ hype the shit out of it, then watched an LP of it that made it look really cool

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>>122500820
About that...

>>122502261
I bought it when it first went on deep sale. It was well within my price range and I later found /domg/ and was happy to have nerds to rek

>>122501183
I bought it after finding it when looking up turn based strategy games. There was ample evidence from youtube vids and AARs that the game was worth trying.

>>122503206
>and I later found /domg/ and was happy to have nerds to rek
I bought the game during the summer, only found this thread last weekend. Only have like 45 hours so I don't think I'm good enough for MP yet

>>122503998
I bought it during the summer and have ten times that number of hours total.

I joined my first game after less than 45 hours of play and it went fineish for me (SunPlain Triffurt)

>>122503998
As long as you grasp the basics (UI, movement, recruiting, shit like that), it's never too soon to jump into MP. Unless you want to stick to SP forever, waiting will only teach you bad habits.

PS: I played my first MP game after something like 15 hours in SP.

>>122503998
I played my first MP after I beat an AI and won.

>>122503998
mp is ultra fun

>never got into dominions
>see coe4
>it's being discussed here
yay
Time to buy coe
I've had dominions 4 sitting in my library forever but the whole game just seems so daunting

>>122504232
>>122504541
>>122504836
>>122505717
alright, I'll check out multiplayer some time. Worst case scenario is I make someone else feel good about themselves when they demolish me I guess

>>122506898
And you learn some stuff from what happened. Nothing bad happens from losing, and f some players whom go AI immediately upon setback actually played out their defeat they'd know what went wrong.

>>122506898
the thing is, they'll also usually be very willing to advise you on what you could have improved on, or what the normal bread-and-butter of your nation is, or what you should have expected given the nations you had nearby, etc.

Don't just get demolished. Get demolished and then find out (a tiny part of) why. That way, you can get demolished for different reasons next time. It's great.

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Who are you, /domg/?

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>>122507179
I'll take #3 for 800 please. Pic related.

>>122507323
>denounces the new god
>isn't a heretic
>still has a priest level

What a fraud.

EA > LA > MA

>>122507179
>tfw summoned and bound Wraith Lord
>forced to listen to my master talk about his High Priestess dakis and how the Baron and Voice of El are a bunch of chads

So when are we going to get some CoE4 multiplayer going?

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I've never made a map before for this game and I have little experience in graphic design or art, but I was inspired by maps like Dawn of Dominions, Leaking Land and Valanis to give it a try. Here's an idea I thought up yesterday and did some basic work on today.

"The previous Pantokrator spied a mysterious temple atop a mountain buried in an endless glacier. Using powerful magic, he sent a celestial spirit to thaw the ice and watch over the land it revealed. Now, with his power weakening, the Great Eye can only watch as the Pretenders seek to gain the temple for themselves."

Basically, it'll be concentric rings of desert/temperate/tundra/lakes/ice with some swamps and hills thrown in at places and some ice caves around the sides.

>>122507932
I'd be down for some Co Op
Let's conquer Hell together!

>>122507828
this
why is MA always the most unfun age?

I can't tell from reading this general
do you guys hate the game you all play?

>>122495287
The chain does include the positive assertion that
>>122480906
>providing a pirated version will create far more purchases than it prevents
which has also not yet been proved by anything other than anecdotal evidence. There's a post about a comic, which is an entirely different medium, and not really comparable to a niche game, with people already aware of the game being the ones asking for pirated copies.
>>122483298
Yeah. Back when there was a working pirate version I hosted a number of games with "pirate slots" (since there was only one pirate key).
Those spots were consistently taken up by the same set of players, and while none of them previously purchased the game, several did after an updated pirate versions topped getting posted.

While I'm sure there are people who did purchase after taking the game for a spin in SP, very few of the people who were still pirating while playing in PBEMs purchased until forced to do so. Not all of them did, but a nonzero number did. (At least two in games I was currently in.)

>>122508636
no, at least not yet

>>122507108
>>122507089
cool, thanks for the advice guys, I can manage that. I suppose I'm used to team games where if I mess up then I ruin the game for my team, but that doesn't really apply to this game so as long as I improve then there's no real downside to losing.

Nice to find a general where people actually try to help newcomers

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>>122508636
You just don't understand Dominoes the way I do.

>>122507989
Give it a whirl and see how it turns out.

>>122508636
We hate illfraud and their buisness practices.

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>>122509321
But does it look like shit so far?

>>122509937
Looks decent enough, definitly far better than mine.

>>122509937
Nope. The pixel art is nice, even though the perspective is a bit fucked up. Can't really say without seeing how you gonna fill up the rest of the map.

Also, avoid the newb mapmaker mistake, i.e. clumping similar terrain types together.

>>122509937
You need to make it brownier and probably work on shape a bit, if that's what you are going for.
I recomend liquid shit for seas.

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>>122509145
yeah /domg/ and /rlg/ are I think the best generals on the board in this respect. It's a good place.

Any info on that blood-nation that was done entirely through summons like LA Ermor?
Last I heard it was on hold, but wondering if that has changed at all.

Is Shadow brand good as a hipster version of frost and fire brand? it's con 6 and harder to get, but it's as good as them vs chaff and better vs SCs

>>122510867
It costs more though, and needs a different crosspath.

>>122510293
>>122510308
thx m8s

>>122510460
kek

>>122509937
I actually quite like this

>>122510773
/wgg/ is alright for helping people, but it's mostly because no one there actually talks about the game, so "helping newcomers" consists of telling them to go look up the Steam guide and then going back to arguing about whether the T-72 is the best tank ever or just the best tank that currently exists

>>122507563
yeah those two flavorfails also bothered me a ton when he appeared at my gates.

>>122510867
No. It costs more and uses more valuable gems, even if it has a nicer AoE.

>>122507832
severely underrated post

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I love these Pratchett-esque unit descriptions

>>122512293
>tfw pratchett died

>>122512657
He was okay with it.

>>122510308
This x10000. Clumped terrain types often look prettier and even make more sense geographically, but they make the starting positions heavily imbalanced and therefore make your map harder to use in MP.

so monarchy is the best society in coe4 yea?

>>122508371
Because muuch are bad and Suwako is worst goddess.

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>>122512878
frog girls are still best girls though

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>>122512809
Most pleasant society to live in? I suppose.

I think the strongest faction is still Demonologist. Great elite chaff and pretty much spammable SCs/level 3 or 2+2 casters.

>>122510867

If I have decent MR, on a 30hp+ thug, i'll use it. It clears chaff real goods and that's valuable sometimes.

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>>122512878
>subjugators of disgusting bats
>bad
I'm gonna fight you.

>>122513824
>elite chaff

You're using at least one of those words wrong. I think what you mean are "elite shock units"

Chaff are cheap crappy units, not tanky units with a lance charge and 3 other solid attacks.

>>122515212
True

Although there's a difference in that classes like Barbarian, Dwarf Queen or Baron tend to do most of their fighting with standard units, while I think Demonologist only really wants to have units to hold the line. Their top lineholders having good offensive potential in their own right is just an added bonus.

>>122508026
How do you even get there?
When revealing the map, I haven't found anything that might lead there, or to any of the other planes.

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>>122494854
>>122495353

>>122508636
I love Dom4, but I can't play it right now.
Huge time investment and if people don't take it seriously (which most people here don't), I lose interest in the game, it becomes a huge chore.

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>>122513350
Yes!

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>>122515979
Random events and some class abilities by the looks of it, probably some map locations too. For example, I got this ritual on level 3 Demonologist while I had a global event lasting about a dozen turns in which dispossessed spirits started popping up from Hades.

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ULM SHALL NOT FALL

DEATH TO THE BLACKSKINS!

>>122516332
People have to post some screenshots, the various planes are the reason why I bought CoE4.

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>>122516020

Cheers. Have this pic of sweet inserts in exchange.

>>122516468
Maybe tomorrow

Anyway, after a few hours it looks like getting to other planes isn't terribly common, a small game could be finished without having any portals or whatever opening. Some interactions from events and such like probably are expected, though.

>>122516468
I'm playing Necromancer right now. Might post some Hades full of Bane Lords in a while.

>>122516403
We approve of this slaughter.

Equally, we approve of bats slaughtering you.

Let the blood flow.

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>>122513350
>>122514090
I want to enjoy MA bat/toads, I really do, but It really hurts losing a lot of the unique summons they got, I feel like you lose a lot of flavour

>>122516403
New to LA and never played bat before. have not gotten a chance to look at the turn, but I cannot imagine what caused this my of a problem.

Guessing my weaknesses of new to blood magic nations as well, overestimating chaff, and the fact that the magic side of the game is rich and deep and I know I that I have a lot to learn about it cause issues...

>>122516403
I must commend you though, many of the games I played a year ago when I was last active would have had the player hit like I first hit you simply AI and give up, you have done very well ...

>>122479251
I sent some too.

>>122485657
Fine.

AI Ulm isn't actually much more formidable than indies, is he?

>>122507989
Looks pretty and it's a cute concept. Please continue.

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>not eating Hermann Fleischer's Fine Pickled Meats

I seriously hope you guys don't do this.

>>122523061
No, I prefer Hermann Fleischer's Relatively Mediocre Pickled Meats

http://strawpoll.me/6027195
Right now I'm setting up one event per blitz, if we go a few hours with players showing interest but we're like, just one or two players short then I'll throw up another last ditch effort before giving up.

Recently some members of the group who don't regularly blitz complained about the event spam. I'm trying to find a compromise that would neither hurt the exposure blitzes get, nor piss people off with events cluttering their screen and grabbing focus from windows etc etc.

What's good on an EA Ermor pretender?

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I intend to make your life as difficult as possible, Caelum.
Let's have a fantastic, bloody war before we're all inevitably destroyed by bats!

>>122530176
It depends what kind of build you're going for, which depends on your strategy, which depends on who else is in the game. If its mostly humans and other squishies, scales is fine. Otherwise, you might need a bless or pretender

>>122530317
Assume it's a fuckhuge game with every other nation. What scales, paths, and blesses does Ermor want?

>>122530176
There are actually a fair few different ways to go. Ermor likes massing mages, which means that they like gold. You can go for a full scales build, which gets you the resources to expand with your legionnaires. Since you have fortune telling on the mages that you're going to be spamming, you can safely go Order 3 Mis 2 and get that juicy gold while mitigating many of the negative events if you need a dump scale.

You can also go for an awake pretender to improve your expansion. Ermor can actually expand fine since their guys are both resilient to archers and throw javs to kill barbarians, so they're decent at killing EA indies. That said, getting another province per turn is good for everyone, so your generic erf sneks and so on work fine.

If you go for a bless, W9 is solid since you have sacred cavalry. While your infantry already work fine, W9 cavalry can expand in very small groups, giving you effectively an expansion party every turn and giving you another weapon in your arsenal that comes online before you have massed mages.

Finally, while Ermor can mass mages and have elemental diversity on flamen, they don't go very deep in any of their paths. If you know that you'll want to cast a particular spell in the mid-late game or want to open up more options if you know you'll survive, taking a semi-rainbow pretender for magic diversity works too. If you go this route, I highly suggest including earth/astral, since you have solid astral natively but no access to coins, golems, or crystal gear to build off of it. Hammers can also be useful if you get lucky with air to get quills and ramp up your all-important research, or for when you hit Cons 6 and turbocharge with lightless lanterns.

>>122530704
Don't know about him, but I'd go with no bless all scales awake expander. At least if it's a really fuckhuge map.

>>122531027
>>122530704
For a massive map, getting top tier expansion lets you snowball into a mid to late game advantage, so I'd go with a W9 bless for cavalry expansion or an awake expander of some kind. It's actually possible to get both with a W9 dragon, but your scales will suffer and they're fairly important on big maps too.

>>122530704
It depends on what kind of strategy you're going for still. EA Ermor is a relatively flexible nation. They have troops capable of efficient expansion, decent sacreds (and sacred mages), solid paths/mages that aren't cap limited with great diversity.

Develop a plan, and build around that. Maybe an N9D5 with the goal of reaching tarts, or an SxWx oracle, or a dormant BoosterTitan for SCing duty when it wakes up, and booster forging later. You generally don't want sloth, your mages enjoy growth, and your forrec mages can encourage magic scales, but there aren't really hard and fast rules.

>>122530987
>>122531027
>>122531247
not that guy but I'm still learning the ropes of pretender design also. Is there somewhere you can see what paths give what blesses or do you just look at all of them until you remember
Also is an awake Earth Snake with no magic paths the "default" early game SC pretender?

>>122531327
I know that you didn't say this, but just to be clear to the guy asking - Ermor's astral mages are not sacred, so don't take a bless with your communions in mind.

This guy's advice for specific pretenders is especially solid for big maps - you want your pretender to help out your late game. A tartarian factory pretender or a pretender that can make rings for end game magic or one that casts your end game globals and fills out your diversity needs are all really valuable.

>>122531557
You can see the bless when you set the paths in pretender design, but there also aren't very many of them, so they're easy to remember.

>>122531557
check the wiki.

Also, erfsnek is decidedly not an SC pretender. It's an expansion pretender, but gets squished by anything more organized than indies. If you want something capable of fighting national troops, you gotta pay for it.

>>122531327
Sloth 1 is okay if you have a water bless and want to expand with them. It makes logistics a bit trickier, since you'll get fewer legionnaires per fort, but you do want a lot of forts for mage production, so it's not insurmountable. It does mean that you need to plan ahead, though, and can hurt you if you lose a large number of troops in a short time.

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>>122531758
>gets squished by anything more organized than indies
NEVAR FORGET

>>122531705
>>122531758
thanks guys. I'm still a bit fuzzy on a lot of this game, and pretender design is one thing that really gets me. I tend to make rainbow pretenders and ignore scales, which I know is usually bad but I don't know what I should do instead most of the time
practice makes perfect I guess

Whats the kekest play you've ever seen or made?

>>122532531
Rainbow pretenders are more advanced than the other kinds, desu, since it requires you to know what kind of magic you'll want to cast late in the game and what kind of boosters you'll need to get there.

When you're putting paths on your god, you should be asking yourself what the path is actually going to do for you. To use the examples mentioned earlier, N9D5 is going to get you nature globals, death boosters/artifacts, and summon tartarians. An x/S6 will get you rings and arcane nexus. Rainbow pretenders can do a lot more different things, but they can still do only one thing at a time and you pay for all the magic you take in points that could be spent helping you get to late game to begin with. It's also very easy to waste gems with them by forging boosters for paths that you don't even need or want (I did this a lot when I first started)

>>122517057
Hows that journey to Valhalla going?