Which one is better and why?

>>387047473
They're both overrated trash that don't require actual tactics and allow players to grind. I supposed tactics ogre is less known so that makes it better

>>387047663
What SPRG actually needs tactics, then? I played FFT 1.3, which was great, but still had some pretty blatant gameplay/balance flaws from the original game

Tactics Ogre. I like the story, characters, and music better.

Tactics has better gameplay and music
LuCT has better story

>>387047773
A more recent one I played killed all my characters like nothing.
Forgot what it was.
I beat FF Tactics when j was young, so maybe the enemies are just unbalanced.

>>387047473
I wish there was a good TO rom hack.

I would say LUCT. My reasoning is that the story is better to me, and if you're talking about the PSP versions of both, LUCT has more features, such as NG+ and extended stories.

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Tactics Ogre, why? It has Valkyries.

>>387047473
FFT

best everything

I found LUCT to be better overall, but FFT is easier to sit through because it's a much faster game.

>>387048612
There's One Vision for the PSP version, which is basically just a rebalancing patch. There's also Chronicle Valeria for the SNES version, but it's only in Japanese.

>>387047663
They require basic level of tactics. Things like Rock/Paper/Scissors and Don't Charge into a Meat Grinder.
If it got any heavier than that with Job Systems in tow, the games would have been panned for being unfairly difficult (which would not have been an entirely unwarranted statement, seeing as having a well-rounded party means getting your ass handed to you by specific enemy types, like how everyone has PTSD about the end fights of FFT Chapter 3).

>>387048887
Where I can see the this One Vision?

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TO Dragoons have style over FFT's Dragoons

>>387049379
http://www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1

I've not been able to get it to work on my PSP, but it works fine with PPSSPP. The most interesting things are making archers slower, making healing spells heal more, and making crafting always 100%.

>>387047815
I would say LUCT has better gameplay. You have more units, more customisation, many many different spells,skills weapons and school's of magic in LUCT. Gameplay is faster paced too, but then again I've only played wotl which I know has some slowdown issues. Only issue with LUCT is the amount of grinding you need to do and some of the drops are ridicilous to get

>>387049692
>looking like a fucking 3-spout teapot and not using a lance is considered "fashion"

Keep telling yourself that.

>>387047473
TO is very easy and has less strategies than FFT

>>387047473
Neither.
Brigandine is way better and has different stories depending on what nation you choose and you can play as the 'bad guy'.

>>387049692
Too bad the class itself is pretty ass and only decent when using crossbows

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>>387050075
That's because TO's Dragoons specialize in killing dragons and beast, FFT's "Dragoons" specialize in jumping like an idiot and using a lance which is why when originally localized they were called Lancers.

>>387050187
>the player chooses one of the nations of the fictional continent of Forsena, and has the goal of conquering the other nations by taking their castles

My god. I've had this idea for awhile now, and apparently it already exists. I think maybe Rance has a similar territory conquering mechanic, but I've never played it either and I'm just guessing based on the overworld map.

>>387050721
Actually anon there are quite a few games like rance or to be more apt, the world conquer games.
Some of the best ones are of course Sengoku Rance.
Then you have Brigandine, normal and Grand Edition which balanced out some stuff, added cutscenes, fleshed out the Esgares Empire way more and had a final boss.
Then you have Dragon Force on the Sega Saturn which has about 9 different stories with different ways of playing it, when you beat the game you also unlock the two special factions, the OP as fuck guy who starts the war and the young small kingdom of mages that know about the true boss.
All great games and you should check them out if you like world conquer games.

>>387050187
>Brigandine
Every thread with FFT or TO this comes up, and everytime I wonder what they have against having generic units.

>>387050986
Nice. I'll definitely check them out.

>tfw no proper difficult/challenging SRPG

>>387047773
Fire Emblem

>>387051514
Have you tried Jagged Alliance games?

>>387051572
lol

>>387051514
Did you try Fire Emblem Fates: Conquest? that game destroyed my anus

>>387051328
What fucking threads are you on about man?
Literally no one ever talks about Brigandine except me and like 1 other anon who has played it.
It was a niche game but a fun game.

>>387051514
Phantom Brave is breddy difficult.

Ogre Battle 64
I like customizing a huge army. Are there any other games like that?

>>387051514
How do you even make them challenging? Besides disallowing grinding.

>>387051703
Whenever there's a thread about TO or FFT it comes up, so its about as frequent as that.

>>387052021
Make it deep and complex, with tons of game mechanics to master, a lot of variety in classes, skills, spells, etc. Then you can throw whatever challenge at the player and force them to adapt and strategize around it or lose.

A turn-based game will never be hard if its gameplay is simple and shallow.

fft. tactics ogre's characters aren't as good, combat and music are worse, plot is less interesting

>>387052167
So the exact shit that's in Tactics Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics?

Man, I'm ready for a new Ogre Battle. The original SNES one was literally baby-anon's first strategy-ish game for me.

>>387047473
TO just had a much better story and I liked the gameplay more. They're both classics.

The real winner is Ogre Battle: MotBQ. Which needs another goddamn entry.

>>387052221
FFT is just Chaos route TO redux

>>387052236
I only played a bit of TO, so I can't speak for it

FFT is pretty hard for JRPG standards, and pretty complex, too, however it's plagued by some deeply imbalanced stuff(i.e calculators) and doesn't have nearly as much variety as there could be(look at Archer or Black Mage's skillset, for example). Those are the things that the 1.3 difficulty hack changes, however it still couldn't change some of the bad game mechanics that overall made it a worse game.

This is why I wish a proper sequel to FFT was released, maybe one day.

>>387047473
theyre both great for different reasons

>>387052417
maybe so, but everything is done better. the characters have more personality, the villains are more interesting, the plot is more nuanced overall

the only big flaw fft has over luct is that the game is easier to break. but it's still much more entertaining in terms of combat, whether you break it or not

Anyone is playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhBAi_TTDo0
?

>>387052167
Do you have any specific examples of something deep and complex? Certain mechanics or interesting variety in skills/spells?

>>387050265
Lancers are also one of the slowest units in the game. Jump was decent on Ninjas though since the speed made the jump complete quicker.

>>387052634
>android

There's a big chance that the game is a big load of crap. Mercenaries Saga is an android SRPG that was ported to 3DS and it's pretty decent, at least gameplay-wise, so maybe this one may not be certain crap as well.

>>387050721
>>387050986
Rance would be that rape game, right? Is there a...rapeless version?

>>387052558
I couldn't disagree more, but those sound more vague than actually proving a point.

Which characters specifically in FFT are so noteworthy for their actual character and not their gameplay?

What makes the Templars more interesting than the Dark Knights?

How is FFT's plot more nuanced? How is TO's plot more transparent?

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>>387047473
Tactics Ogre. Because I can go Law.

>>387051679
Not him, but it depends which Fire Emblem. Some are pretty meh, but Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, 4 and -especially- 5 are great strategy games. 4 and 5 might see Switch remakes which would be sick. Thracia's maps have a lot of intentional design placed into them, and they provide some bizarre but interesting scenarios. They almost feel like puzzles at points.

>>387047473
>Gang up on one guy until he dies then
>wash rinse repeat
>tactics
These are just RPG's played on a grid where every objective is either rout or kill the boss.

>>387047473
I like some aspects of TO:LUCT but the class system is just garbage and discourages creativity. Also I liked FFT's characters more, almost everyone in LUCT came off as a stuck-up cunt.

In any case, Square-Enix needs to beg Matsuno to come back and let him make a fucking game. Whatever it might be.

>>387053104
i can tell by your tone that you've already made up your mind and nothing i say will change it. i'm not bothering. i've played both games and i'm not changing mine either

>>387053349
Then do tell me, which RPGs actually require strategy and tactics?

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>>387047663
This.

Why is this shit even considered a "tactics" game? It's literally just a standard jRPG battle, except you can walk around the battle map. Whooaaaaa.

Play a real sRPG.

>>387047473
Despite having a significantly worse story, FFTA2 had much better gameplay than either of these

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>>387052978
Tried it a bit on PC with an android emulator. There is only 5 class and it's in real time.

>>387053349
the point is that you can do it while underleveled, or taking very few turns, using generics, and so on. the games need to be approachable enough that even a retard such as yourself can just grind, use overpowered unique characters to lure enemies one by one into 5 of them and progress to the next map

>>387053442
Having played both it just sounds like you're talking out of your ass.

>>387053556
Is the 3ds Langrisser any good?

>>387053486
SRPG's that actually have more than two map objective types. I liked FFT and LUCT, but I hate the fact that nearly every SRPG that comes out of Japan nowadays is a direct clone of them

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>>387053740
idgaf

>>387047663
yes and your obscure JRPGs and/or FF7 are better than everything.
or let me guess, you don't even play RPGs or games at all. because not liking something others like makes you superior.

>>387053782
Haven't played it, so I can't say. Probably not, though. Play Der Langrisser.

>>387053782
No

>>387053782
No, it's horrible. In all regards.

>>387053556
>No generic units
No, I don't want to play that.

>>387053656
>needing to grind in FFT
>ever
You turn your units a Monk very early in the game and then proceed to fuck up everyone

>>387054034
>Langrisser
>No generic units
You fucking retard.

>>387053782
You're better off playing FE at that point

>>387054039
you can play the games however you want. if you use imba shit, then they're easier and require less strategy. they're tactical games if you want them to be. but they're also accessible to people who don't want to think

>>387053036
Rance is a H-game so no its about sex and taking a province reward the player with a H-scene and some are rape.
Just play a different conquer games like Brigandine, Dragon Force, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Nobunaga's Ambition.

>>387053556
Der Langrisser was the shit

>>387054176
The problem is that the player isn't able to judge what's "imba shit" until they're done with the game.

>>387054538
Is it any good? Looks like a very old and weird mix between FE and Advanced Wars

Comparing the PSP versions, Tactics Ogre has more content (too much, honestly), but FFT has a better story (even though Ogre has more storylines) and a better job system. LUCT's job system feels lacking, and the fact that I have to start characters at level 1, especially the unique ones, is annoying and tedious.

How much time do you think it would take one to 100% (i.e., complete all paths, crafting, jobs, characters, weapons, and sidequests) LUCT? The amount of shit to do in that is insane.

>>387054707
It's really good. One of the best SRPGs ever made

>>387047773
Did you play 1.3 content or insane? Insane is fucking stupid.

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>Oh you want me to shoot at that guy to make him surrender?
>Alright just let me
>ROFUP I
>ROFUP I
>ROFUP I
>ROFUP I

>>387054889
Insane, it was fun, but it fell off towards the end where the balance went to shit

>>387047663
Tactics Ogre actually kinda fucks over the player if they grind too much.

>>387055127
I got to chapter 4 and got mad because I had leveled too high due to not being that good at the game and poaching was necessary.

>>387055171
Why/how?

>>387047473
it's sad this genre isn't all that prevalent in the west and in general, because i'd love a game done in the style of these 2 but for a modern pc/console. they'd be able to add all sorts of mechanics like attacks affecting the terrain to change it's height or properties, better AIs, units being able to interact with one another during combat, monster riding, maybe time/turn fuckery like in TO, chaining/combining moves, etc... . i dunno i just feel like if a studio with a big budget and some creativity put their minds to it they could do some really interesting stuff and have fights that are more tactics-oriented.

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>>387053036
>Is there a...rapeless version?
>>>/out/

>>387055340
Enemy levels scale with you IIRC. So if you have to reclass a unit to a new job (getting demoted to level 1 in the process), that unit will be really weak

>>387055340
Enemy units start to outclass you in equipment and abilities in story battles, if I recall correctly.

>>387050265
Why would you try to kill a dragon with anything but a lance? Your logic fucking sucks you stupid faggot.

>>387054792
it actually takes less time than you might imagine to 100% LUCT. the first go is usually the longest since you're doing everything for the first time. the second and third main story path runs are much quicker. the side/bonus stuff is the same. PotD is insane the first time around but after you unlock the shortcuts it's much faster and grinding becomes a lot easier, and there's also optimal ways of traversing it that you can use to speed up. same for pirate's graveyard and San Bronsa.

levelling of units can be reliably done in auto with the right setups/characters so you just leave it and check every once in a while. the most anoying parts by far are gear/tome farming on bosses (because you can only reset it with quicksave to reroll the drop, as the fight ends when they die), the crystal pumpkins but those are only needed once, and the orichalcum-related farms for the crafting stuff.

also, i gotta disagree with your remark on it having too much content. it helps a lot in making ng+ and so forth remain interesting and makes it so you can return to the game after some time and still have stuff to do. plus unless you wanna 100% most of the extra stuff is a no-factor so it doesn't overwhelm you.

>387047663(YOU)

Fuck you, FFT DO require some level of strategy in order to progress and the grind makes it possible to employ new characters in your party, as for unlocking other jobs and abilities. You taste is just shit m8.

>>387054889
insane is retarded. i like my games challenging even if it's frustrating at times, but there's a point where it's just too much.
i tried giving it a chance but every wild encounter is full of enemies with the most bullshit abilities that 1-shot you, and god the item/revive spam can get really fucking obnoxious when the enemy has seemingly no limit to healing items from the very start of the game. making it harder is one thing but when every single battle is a 20 min slow grind where you have to kill the same revived/healed enemy 3 times it's just boring.

>>387055316
Chapter 4 is shit anyways and the final boss is the worst in any SRPG ever made, you weren't missing much.

Tactics Ogre is broken.
The enemy scales with you when you level up but they also gain some bonuses that you don't have.
This makes you not wanting to level up. But then the story missions have a specific lvl for the enemies which makes grind a necessary thing to do.

They fucked up real time with the balancing. You have to cheese the system to be able to beat it, and there's only one way to do it which makes it the worst and most boring tactics game ever.

>>387055354
The problem with that is that adding more complexity doesn't make a game deeper unless it's actually backed up and has a reason to exist beyond bloating the game. TO and FFT both have a shitload of mechanics and are pretty complex, but a player who has even the slightest idea what they're doing can steamroll both of them without even grasping a tenth of the game's mechanics, and on the western PC front, it's why games like Fallout: Tactics implode in on themselves.

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I hadn't quit a game out of difficulty since I was a child, but then I played FFT for the first time a few months ago.

What is this, seriously what the fuck is this bullshit?

>>387057306
Just play the Yell game if you can't kill him with raw physical/magical power.

>>387051514
Try Battle Brothers.
Expert difficulty is prettty hard if you not save scum.
tactical combat is top notch but rest is just shallow.

>>387057306

Don't be a bitch and grind Ramza as a monk.

Compared to X-COM on higher difficulties, FFT is child's play. Only fight that would give even experienced players problems is the one right after the one in your post, and that's because of fake difficulty.

>>387057724
>>387051589
If we're going that route then don't forget original X-Com.

>>387057805
Not that hard even on Superhuman. TFTD steps into bullshit territory because of stat inflation and shit map/enemy design, though.

>>387057306
>grind until lvl99
>squire ramza
>auto potion
>two swords
>keep using yell/accumulate
>????
>PROFIT

And faggots here say this game has no tactics.

>>387057267
that can be fixed with devs knowing the difference between difficulty and strategy. an enemy not taking damage from the front and requiring you to either bait him/turn him around or to navigate around him to hit from behind, while having to deal with terrain or mobs is something that requires strategy if done well, while an hp sponge enemy with high defense is just yet another target to nuke.
and this is only an example, there are many situations where if you use your head you can turn what would be a regular "slap it til it dies" fight/boss into one that requires actually planning what you're going to do.

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>playing anime """S"""RPGs with primitive combat mechanics and primitive character advancement and customization
LMAO.

>>387058582
Shit game.

>>387058582
20170626174146_1 is a pretty great game, I agree.

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>>387058693
No. It has more mechanical depth and more advanced build customization than any Japanese RPG ever made. It's the only truly hardcore PvP SRPG with non-primitive combat mechanics out there that still has regular tourneys.

>>387058914
This is what retards actually believe.

both are good games, no point in choosing

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>>387058845
>he hasn't heard about Mordheim
I hope you don't consider yourself a veteran of the genre or something.

>>387058914
>PC game that doesn't support modding

Automatically trash

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TO: curbstomp everything with archers
FFT: curbstomp everything with ninjas and the special fucks later on

Also Zalbag deserves no pity.

>>387059140
I don't, but keep lashing out at everyone who responds to you.

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>>387047473
FFT has more engaging gameplay with the constantly upgrading classes and abilities at the cost of being way too easy

TO has the more engaging story with multiple choices and routes to play through at the cost of engagements being long and boring as fuck.

>>387049827
>more customisation

no

in FFT most options work

in TO most of your units will be layed out the exact same way because 90% of the fluff spells and abilities are useless

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>>387059613
>engagements being long and boring as fuck.
Just bring shitloads of Archers, LMAO.

>>387059140
>Vampires break the game
>Bugs galore
>Good game
*inhales*

>>387059613
>at the cost of engagements being long and boring as fuck.

I remember being initially excited at the size of battles, but good god they became a slog after while. Doesn't help that you're moreorless shooting yourself in the foot if you rush to just kill the commander unit.

TO and FFT are probably two of the best games ever made, nothing past from 1998 can even compare

This not an opinion, it's a fact

You not liking the kind of game does not make it less of a masterpiece in storytelling and engaging gameplay

>>387059814
>Vampires break the game
Scrub. The only good vampir eunits are the Leader and his concubine sluts, every other unit on their roster is trash. Undead are pretty well balanced, unless you try to engage a vampire leader one-on-one with a rato and neglect leveling leadership on your melee fighters or something.

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>>387055125
Motherfucking Front Mission 3, man. Random skill chance activation was annoying as hell.

>dat feel game has a hidden easy or hard mode depending on which scenario you go with
>you don't even understand you're making such a huge decision at the moment

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>>387047473
They're effectively two sides of the same coin, to be honest.

>>387059613
Man, I tried the PS1 Tactics Ogre and it's worth playing just to see how silly the game can get. I recruited a Cockatrice in one of the early missions and basically the entire game devolved into turning every enemy unit into stone, which immobilized them for the rest of the battle unless cured; almost no enemies had it and eventually you got a petrify spell that hit in a 2-3 square radius with high success rate.

>>387060016
FFT has the promise of engaging gameplay that's followed up on only if you mod the damn game. TO doesn't even have that much.

>>387059710
>in TO most of your units will be layed out the exact same way because 90% of the fluff spells and abilities are useless
then you either leveled the wrong shit or never bothered to unlock all the classes. my team at the end had no repeat units, both in class, weapon wielded or magic element and it was fun as fuck to use, and powerful to boot.

hell, earth magic in early-mid game is possibly the most useful. slowing/petrifying everything at range was just way too good.

>>387058582
Permadeath. Most people are pussies who can't handle it.

>there are people who play new Fire Emblems on classic difficulty
>reload when their units die
WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT THEN?

>>387047473
they're really good, but I feel like they pretty choked all srpg discussions since release. especially on ps1 which received a fair number of good entries in the genre that go overlook or mentioned on the margins because they're not the big two.

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>>387047473
>not posting the one better than the two

>>387060424
I can understand not caring for permadeath in games where you have to invest time and money building personalized units up from scratch. In something like X-Com where the entirely of your force is essentially comprised of cannon fodder, its easier to deal with except when you form attachments to those units that survive enough battles to become Commanders.

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>>387055125
>>387060091
I never hated a main character so much.

>>387060424
The sad part is that the early Fire Emblems on the GBA were pretty decent even from the Western SRPG point of view. They were challenging as fuck and had permadeath/constant autosaves, IIRC, so you couldn't savescum. Then the franchise degenerated into casual waifushit to appease the dumb weebs.

>>387060765
I actually forgot how many expressions characters had AND animated mouth flapping. FM3 had production through the roof, but such a reduction in battlefield size and maximum wanzer count compared to FM2 was a major strike.

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The world needs more turn based Mecha combat

>>387060765
>3.0 out of 5 in GFAQ's reviews

lmao

>>387060989
The world needs more turn based ship combat.

>>387060989
Front Mission 5 is really good but you really need to be a fan of the series to get the most out of it seeing as it's a conclusion to the series in the true sense of word.

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>>387061075
only good part of suikoden 4, along with ship headquarters.

>>387051918

I thought I was the only one who played this

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>>387060989
>The world needs more turn based Mecha combat
>mecha
No, it doesn't. It needs more turn based mech combat and this is exactly what it's going to get soon.

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>>387057724
>Try Battle Brothers.

From what I understood it's basically turn-based strategy Mount & Blade?

>>387051918
>>387061234
OB64's strange hybrid of rts and tbs needs to make a comeback somehow.

>>387061197
How does it work? I always imagined a srpg centered around ships would involve elements of Front Mission, where you can customize ships with different parts, and Infinite Space, where you could assign characters to different sections of a ship for various stat/ability boosts.

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>>387051703
>Literally no one ever talks about Brigandine except me and like 1 other anon who has played it.

Because it's really not like TO or FFT and leans more on grand strategy side of things. Great game, though. Grand Edition got translated as well.

>>387061672
You get to decide who crews what ship aka what Rune attacks in has, and entire system operates on rock-paper-scissors. It's a relatively small side part of the game and nowhere near the complexity of FM or IS.

>Infinite Space will never get a sequel
Damn shame.

>>387061954
If it ever does get a sequel or spiritual successor, it needs to happen on an actual console or pc. The game could've been so much more but it was gimped by being on the DS.

>>387060782
>early Fire Emblems on the GBA
>were challenging as fuck
>Then the franchise degenerated into casual waifushit
What the fuck am I reading?

>>387049769
>making archers slower

They were already slow as shit. Arycelle was my only archer I used and she's faster than generics but still got like one turn to everyone else's two turns.

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>>387060091
More like a hidden Fun Mode depending on route, Emma route = Fun, Alisa route = No fun. All dem Imaginary Number wanzers

>>387057724
How is the variety of the game? Is it based on units, classes or what?

But seriously, is TO better than FFT?

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>>387064785
depends entirely on how much you fuck around in the simulator. also, that goddamn ingame internet was great.

>>387047815
LUCT's story is far and away better than FFT.

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>>387047473
This

are there any mods for it yet on PC?

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>>387067318
I think Emma's route is just better overall, more stages, better characters except Lenny, better sim stages, and better wanzers. Also yeah the internet in FM3 was great

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>>387060981
>but such a reduction in battlefield size and maximum wanzer count compared to FM2 was a major strike.

Fucking this. Ironically for all its other faults FM4 was return to more acceptable figures in both of those. Shame it also looks just a smidgen better than FM3 while running PS2. In fact, it was outright ugly game.

FFT
>the tamable monsters are useless

LuCT
>the tamable monsters are strong as fuck

i think the choice is clear

What's the best SRPG ever in your opinion?

>>387055687
Why not use a bow and arrow and not be a jumpy retard who is going to be eaten.

>>387055125
I forget, were skills just dependent on parts or weapon types? Because ROFUP + Shotgun = RNG as fuck but you could could deal some serious damage.

>>387068625
You needed certain parts to learn certain skills, those skills activation requires the correct weapon/situation. Double Shot 1 requires two guns, Double Assault requires a gun and melee, etc.

>>387050265
>small point of contact at great speed

Smarter than the other. Also specialized in slaying dragons.

>>387060367
This. My full team of 12 were carefully crafted from scratch up and they were all unique (except for 2 shamans), had their own elements and unique equipment. Magic spells get really good later on when you get draconic spells and summons. My casters and hybrids were easily the strongest because of their magic.