/who/ – Doctor Who General

So I have been watching classic who for a while but I just now realized why the tardis has two sets of doors it's so if anyone other than the doctor happens along it and gets the outer ones open the inner ones just look like the back wall of the blue box

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What was the monks' ultimate goal? Why did the Doctor fake a regeneration if Bill doesn't know about regeneration? Does the Doctor now have the ability to emit regeneration energy? If he's going to go around wasting regeneration energy why didn't he just fix his eyes? How did the monks fix the Doctor's eyes? Why did the monks try to team up with the Doctor instead of killing him? Why didn't the monks remove the Doctor's sight as revenge for betraying them? Why did the Doctor's plan require six months of preparation? How did he "deprogram" the guards? If the monks could pluck a submarine out of the sea then why couldn't they stop the ship the Doctor was on? How did Bill link minds with the monk? Why didn't they just shoot that monk like they did the others? Why did the monks move the pyramid? Why were they even using a pyramid? Why was no one guarding the outside of the pyramid? Why did they keep their ship on Earth and not in space? Why was Missy the other "last Time Lord" if Time Lords are back as of last season? How did the simulation ultimately tie into the monk's plans? Was there a reason they left the Veritas in the simulation? Why did everyone who read the Veritas kill themselves without fail? How could the simulation accurately predict everything up to the virus outbreak but nothing after? Why did the monks need consent if they were just going to brainwash everyone? If they desperately needed a human link, why did it have to be someone in a position of authority? Why did they make no attempt to keep track of the link once they implemented their dystopia? The memory changing signal didn't work on Time Lords, was it focused on humans? What about all the zygon immigrants? Why did the monks make everyone wear blue overalls? When they say the human race had become slaves, what were they enslaved to do? If the monks erased themselves from everyone's minds, what happens to the family members of the people sent to labour camps?

Only just got around to watching the last episode. Is this what they call "kino"?

>>83570749

What about all of the video footage that was taken in that time? What about the massive square of land in the middle of London that was wiped out for the pyramid? Did no one remember the people that were killed during this 6 months? How was the script this poor when they had 2 years to write it? Is it that difficult to fit a coherent plot into 2 hours and 15 minutes? Were our expectations too high?

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FOR CENTURIES WE WAITED
HARVESTING THE WASTE OF HUMANITY
THE PRISONERS
THE REFUGEES
THE D I S P O S S E S S E D
THEY ALL CAME TO US
THE BODIES WERE
P U L P E D
F I L L E T E D
S I F T E D
THE SEED OF THE HUMAN RACE IS P E R V E R T E D
ONLY ONE CELL IN A B I L L I O N WAS FIT TO BE NURTURED

>>83570749
Why are you asking so many questions of a British sci-fi show aimed at children?

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WHY

>watching classic who
>TARDIS doors are wood on the outside and fridge doors on the inside

>>83570905
fuck I hate RTDfags

>>83570916
See
>>83570709

>>83570749
If all the monks wanted was a race to revere them and somewhere comfy to live, why didn't they just create an ideal comfy world in their super advanced simulation and rule over that?

Is it me or is Robot a boring serial?

>>83570837
CENTURIES HAVE PASSED
BUT I DO NOT AGE
TIME HAS LOST ITS EFFECT ON ME

>>83570905
BASED.

>>83571034
What would happen tomorrow of someone discovered in all certainty that this entire universe is a simulation? How many suicides do you think would follow?

>>83571037
Robot is shite
It'd be ormal filler for Pertpert but it really doesn't fit with t. Baker and makes a bad intro story.

>>83571034

Or why not just use their power to predict the future, disarm weapons and cure the sick to actually help the humans instead of just pretending to do so?

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>>83570905
Him regenerating into Simm would've been a GOAT re-introduction for his Master.

Don't know how it could happen though

Has any doctors first story/episode actually been good?

>>83571233
An unearthly Child, Power of the Daleks, Spearhead from Space, The Christmas Invasion, The Eleventh Hour

>>83571093
YET, LIFE CONTINUES
THE DOCTOR'S GRIP CHOKES THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
HOPE... HAS WON
GOTTA GET BACK
EXTERMINATE
SAMURAI DALEK

>>83571233
Yes, Power of the Daleks and Spearhead from Space are great

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RISE MY ICE WARRIORS

RIIIIISSSSSEEE

>>83571216

What if the Doctor died, and the Master takes up the mantle of The Doctor, trying to redeem himself.

I cant get over how fucking wasted these three episodes were. Three episodes with nearly zero build up in between ending with a fucking power of love ending.

>>83571482
Hush it's over now Moffat will soon be gone and chibnall will let Justin roiland write a 4 parter in series 11

>>83571482
wait for Moffat's crimbo kino

>>83571585
>Justin roiland
ew

>>83571850
I expected a little bit more of a reaction

>Series 9

The most highly critically acclaimed of all New Who seasons

Highest average episode rating on IMdB

GOAT performance by actor as Doctor in almost lone role episode

At least 2 scenes go viral on internet

Only one shit episode in entire series

>Series 10 so far

Good start, 2 great eps Oxygen and Extremis.

Then an episode with so many plot errors even a 12 year old (the supposed target audience) could easily spot them.

Followed by le fucking fake regeneration teasers to entice viewers, who end up ultimately disappointed.

>>83571850
He'd be on par with Russel T Davies
>HEY BILL, GOD ISN'T REAL! WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB!

>>83571974
Series 9 had mediocre episodes too like the Ashildr 2-parter and The Magician's Apprentice

**LEAKED**
12TH DOCTOR REGENERATION SCENE HERE
l
l
V
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lRLgoY6Hyk

Haven't watched this show since two series ago, how did they acknowledge Trump?

>>83572458
He kills himself inside a simulation but you don't see his face.
He's later seen in a picture in the background in an irl episode

>>83572458
>I wouldn't have voted for him he's... orange

Just had a glorious wank imagining myself being turned into Jenna coleman and fucking tom hughes big dick in a fancy hotel room after a long day of interviews for Victoria.

I'm a straight guy btw.

>>83570749
The answer to all these questions is Moffat

Yet, once again, Moffat's bullshit still infects DW even without him writing. a 3-parter wasted with the power of love. No bullshit sci-fi, not even asspull time travel just bullshit love. When will he fuck off?

>>83572827
After Christmas.

So, I finally got around to watching Capaldi's first series after such a long hiatus and holy fuck I hate Clara even more.

>All this bullshit about her importance to the Doctor
>Her general blandness

Only thing I'll give her is that she tries to keep up on her life outside the Doctor. Capaldi is doing great though, a welcome change after Smith's constant "I'M SO QUIRKY!"

>>83571376
Bait aside, this person does have a morsel of a point. I'm not a big fan of the constant telegraphing of zeitgeists. Whether it's a Pokemon GO joke, or some two part commentary on Islamiphobia, it always ends up cringy.

Was the show always like this, or am I finally turning into a foul jaded old man?

>>83570516
>OFFICIAL /who/ DISCORD SERVER
are you fucking kidding me
after all the times we explained explicitly how having identities was a bad idea and we shouldn't have a discord, someone fucking went and did this?

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>>83573583
If you need this explained to you it isn't a /who/ discord and an anon is having a good giggle about it, mate.

>>83572827
Wasnt that most of the endings of New Who?
Love conquer all.

>>83573583
well I should have clicked the link
I'm a silly duffer aren't I

>>83573664
Oh god, remember Fear Her?

>>83573583
>>83573639
Someone actually made a /who/ discord some time ago before this meme
https://discord.gg/3vuYNmp

>>83573935
Is this the secret trip discord? Does anyone actually use it? It's never mentioned

>>83573935
Oh shit there's a legit one what

guys why

>>83570749
>half of these were directly answered in earlier threads
>keeps posting them
ebin

>>83574381
What was the monks' ultimate goal? Why did the Doctor fake a regeneration if Bill doesn't know about regeneration? Does the Doctor now have the ability to emit regeneration energy? If he's going to go around wasting regeneration energy why didn't he just fix his eyes? How did the monks fix the Doctor's eyes? Why did the monks try to team up with the Doctor instead of killing him? Why didn't the monks remove the Doctor's sight as revenge for betraying them? Why did the Doctor's plan require six months of preparation? How did he "deprogram" the guards? If the monks could pluck a submarine out of the sea then why couldn't they stop the ship the Doctor was on? How did Bill link minds with the monk? Why didn't they just shoot that monk like they did the others? Why did the monks move the pyramid? Why were they even using a pyramid? Why was no one guarding the outside of the pyramid? Why did they keep their ship on Earth and not in space? Why was Missy the other "last Time Lord" if Time Lords are back as of last season? How did the simulation ultimately tie into the monk's plans? Was there a reason they left the Veritas in the simulation? Why did everyone who read the Veritas kill themselves without fail? How could the simulation accurately predict everything up to the virus outbreak but nothing after? Why did the monks need consent if they were just going to brainwash everyone? If they desperately needed a human link, why did it have to be someone in a position of authority? Why did they make no attempt to keep track of the link once they implemented their dystopia? The memory changing signal didn't work on Time Lords, was it focused on humans? What about all the zygon immigrants? Why did the monks make everyone wear blue overalls? When they say the human race had become slaves, what were they enslaved to do? If the monks erased themselves from everyone's minds, what happens to the family members of the people sent to labour camps?

>>83574381
It should be easy for you to link all the posts that answered them, then

>>83574334
There's also the secret one for trips that you haven't been let into

>>83570749
>How did the monks fix the Doctor's eyes?
Can someone explain explain why so many people are hung up on this? It's literally like demanding to know "how is the TARDIS bigger on the inside?" or "how is the Doctor able to regenerate?"

>>83574462
Equally as easy for you to find them yourself.

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Whithouse, more like SHITHOUSE amiritefellas?!

>>83574555
>Equally as easy for you to find them yourself.
But I haven't seen those posts and don't know what or where to look. It's up to you to prove your own point, not me

>>83574503
The one adventure I can never have

*BUZZSAW SOUND*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eqnml1VO7s

>>83574555
Because a creature having a magical power to fix the doctor's eyes from hundreds of miles away, with no pain or even reaction from the doctor until after it's done, is incredibly lazy after all the effort they went to in order to show that it was too difficult for the doctor himself to give his own sight back

Moff said that the doctor getting his eyesight back at the end of Oxygen by waving a magic wand felt cheap. In the end, the way he got his eyesight back didn't even have the dignity of using a magic wand. It just happened.

>>83574661
Just search for the questions in the post and read the replies.

>>83574770
They also went to great effort to show that the monks are pretty fucking powerful.
>B-but if the Doctor can't do it, NOBODY IN THE UNIVERSE should be able to do it!
Fuck off. The Doctor is not all powerful. He shouldn't be all powerful.

>Moff said that the doctor getting his eyesight back at the end of Oxygen by waving a magic wand felt cheap. In the end, the way he got his eyesight back didn't even have the dignity of using a magic wand. It just happened.
By magic wand, he meant something easy with no consequences. Now compare with what happened.

>>83574915
Consequences after the fact are not the same as the act itself actually taking effort. If anything, the latter is actually more important

Imagine if either the entire Monk trilogy was replaced by 3 different standalone episodes, or Pyramid or Lies were at least replaced by one or two different episodes. How nice it would be for this season to at least have had the chance to explore more stories.

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>tfw actually looking forward to gattis's campy looking jules verne bank holiday monday type feel episode
>tfw it could actually be one of the best of the series just by being straightforward and fun rather than trying and failing to do something ambitious

>>83575247
I wish. I fucking wish.

What's the ice warriors' gimmick? Is there anything interesting about them besides the fact they're from mars? Are they about military strategising or brute force or what?

>>83575247
This. I'm my lifetime I never thought I'd ask for a standard Gaypiss episode.
It'll be bland and just okay, but at least it won't be the Monks trilogy.

What's a good Who story (TV, audio, etc) for Halloween? I'm thinking something like Night Thoughts or possibly Embrace the Darkness.

>>83575474
It's a classic who fanwank episode, anon. It's also written by Gatiss haha

>>83575683
What makes the ice warriors a memorable monster? What do they do? I haven't seen any classic who episodes with them and Cold War was in peak forgettable era so I can't remember a thing about it

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>>83575739
They're cool

>>83575739
I have no idea anon. From what I heard, Gatiss has always wanted to write an ice warriors episode for some fucking reason. Haha Classic Gatiiss ae?

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>>83575739
And spooky

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>>83574761
>tfw no new Torchwood with the original crew never ever

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>>83575868
good one

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>>83575920
Maybe in the 60's anon, but the concept has aged like milk. Mondas cybermen however...

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>>83575739
And they waddle

>>83576045
did they waddle in cold war?

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>>83575989
They've turned into cheap cosplay outfits

>>83576067
Cold War isn't canon

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Is he autistic?

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>>83576139

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>>83576067
No :(

>>83576118
Yea the face mask needs to be wonky and cheaper looking, Gives that uncanny valley effect

Why does bill have to do something gay every week?
Why can't I watch doctor who without being reminded that gay people exist?

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What is the source of this awful painting?

>>83576387
Korea

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>>83576387
Doctor who world tour - jenna, pcaps and moff went around the world to screen the first episode of S8 and promote capaldi's new doctor in general
They were gifted that in seoul, /who/ was watching live at the time
They didn't livestream any other of them

>>83576387
Peter and Jenna did like a worldwide tour thing for series 8, in Korea a fan gave them that painting

>>83576486
>/who/ was watching live at the time
good times

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>>83576438
>>83576486
>>83576487
Thanks folks, have a rare cyberman

>>83576222
>why can't I live in my echo chamber

>>83576222
Look how PROGRESSIVE they are. Are you impressed yet? You should feel bad if you're white, male and straight.

How do you guys deal with the doctors theme stuck constantly in your head?

>>83576973
watch series 9 and 10 so I don't have to worry about ever hearing it in the first place

>capaldi's theme has been completely wasted except for the rare occasion

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>>83577233
>Whole theme is about 7 and a half mins
>tfw there will never be a case where the Doctor does something cool for long enough to use the entire thing
>tfw this is Capaldi's last series and it's more low-tier Moffat bullshit that commits the sin of being boring
>tfw Capaldi was absolutely wasted in the role except for the accidental kino that was Heaven Sent
Fucking hell, this is the worst timeline

>>83577588
I honest to god went to bed last night thinking the same thing. Worst timeline. What a bitter disappointment. We've been cheated.

>extracting text from Big Finish scripts
>accidentally click on a Faction Paradox PDF
>the title is "HELLO LIZ PLEASE DON'T READ THIS I MEAN I COULD HAVE READ YOUR WHOLE BOOK AND I DIDN'T AND FAIR'S FAIR COME ON YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN"

What did Lawrence Miles mean by this?

>>83577588
Series 8 and 9 were GOAT though. Like at this point my top 10 Who stories ever is like half Capaldi

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>>83577588
>Heaven Sent
>"accidental kino"
>mfw Moffat haters are so ass blasted by him that even when he does something objectively phenomenal they attribute it to just being a fluke

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>Rise my Ice Warriors, rise!
Hang on, the Ice Warriors don't refer to themselves as Ice Warriors though.

>>83578355
well clearly their queen does
what do ice warriors call themselves?

guys,

Weren't there leaked pics of the soldier from the end of Doctor Mysterio on set of series 10??

Where is that meant to happen???????

>>83578904
never happened, moff forgot he ever set that up

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So who the fuck was that guy who's head was covered up in the DWSR images. SOMEONE FIND IT

Is bill the first companion to swear on the show? She's said 'shit' twice now

>>83580019
Technically it's been cut off both times so she's said "shii..."
and Rose called Cassandra a "bitchy trampoline" in her second episode

>>83580019
The King of Hearts said nigger back in the day, but he wasn't a companion.

>>83580019
What? Where? And why isn't capaldi allowed if Bill Is?

>>83575028
Does it take effort for the Doctor to regenerate? No? I guess Caves of Androzani ends on a shitty copout then.

>>83580153
In thin ice she said "shi-" in the scene with the shit bricks
in lie she said something like "why you little shi-" after the regeneration ruse

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Here of the Mondasian surgeons

>>83580420
It was "I am gonna beat the shi-" to Nardole after she found out he was in on the plan

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ITS HAPPENING

Is it wrong that I like Nardole more then Bill?

>>83570749
Why did the Doctor think he could use the history re-writing machine to get rid of racism when racism comes from the biological instinct of tribalism and not from our historical acts?
In fact, if the Doctor made the human race forget all instances of racism then they would end up being more racist as they'd forget why they stopped doing slavery and segregation in the first place.

Almost as bad as "History is a whitewash".

>>83580726
never miss an opportunity to let your political beliefs influence your writing

>>83580602
Please let this happen but only if he completely shames the new tardis and hates 12 that's the only way it would be funny

>>83581141
Funny because the First Doctor was around 200-450 years old depending on when in his lifetime this meeting happens. Which compared to 12 being over 2000 means it would be like a petulant child mocking an old man. 12 would literally not give two shits about what 1 thinks

>>83575566
The Doomwood Curse maybe? The Witch from the Well? You said Night Thoughts, which would've been my first suggestion.

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Lie of the Land was so close to being the best episode of NuWho.

Why did Moffat and Whithouse chicken out here? It couldn't just be that they had written themselves into a corner. There's so much the episode could've done going from here.

This wasn't the worst episode of nuWho by any means, but it's probably the single most frustrating.

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>>83582359

>>83581892
More like you meeting your 16 year old self and realizing how much of a loser you grew up to be

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>>83581892
> the First Doctor was around 200-450 years old
I prefer to think that Time Lords age normally in their first incarnation and 1 was actually in his 60s or 70s. I think there was some behind the scenes secret lore at the time about him being 650 years old or something but fuck that, he has a 16 year old granddaughter who acts like she really is 16 and the show can't even seem to decide whether they're human or not. Hartnell's Doctor seems like just an old guy, not someone who's lived for centuries. It's also the easiest way to make sense of 11 living for like 1100 years while 1's body wore thin in much less time.

Of course that also means the Doctor being 450 in Tomb of the Cybermen is quite a stretch since he's always accompanied by companions and they never age noticeably, but saying that 250 years pass for him over seasons 1-4 is already ridiculous for the same reason and any workaround you can think of for that would probably allow him to age as much as you like. Unless you want to say the Doctor traveled for almost 250 years with Susan before meeting Ian and Barbara, but that just feels completely wrong and also implies that Susan doesn't age normally, which is another thing that triggers me.

Twelve's regeneration was played so damn well, Capaldi is amazing

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>>83575739
In the Pertwee years they were depicted SERIOUS badasses & the 'Galactic Federation' used them like the SAS.

I think out of all the classic monsters they've been the least degraded, unlike the Sontarans.

>>83582818
>Unless you want to say the Doctor traveled for almost 250 years with Susan before meeting Ian and Barbara
I'm sure someone would explain it away with him doing some off-camera solo adventures every now and then before coming back to travel more with Susan.

>series 8 finale: Twelve falls out of an exploding plane, hurtles through the air towards his TARDIS

>series 9 finale: Twelve strategically jumps out of a window and plunges into a skull filled lake so hard he passes out

You know, I actually really enjoyed the Doctor doing some serious stunts like this and I'm gonna be a little disappointed if series 10 doesn't give us one more daredevil scene for Twelve. It's so rare and satisfying.

Maybe (or even hopefully?) that'll be part of the reckless act that gets him killed for his Christmas regeneration?

>>83583226
The finale for this season is literally titled "The Doctor Falls"
Should be kino

>>83583155
But the 1st Doctor can't do that. He couldn't control the TARDIS, so if he leaves a companion somewhere he can't come back to them.

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>>83583226
>>series 8 finale: Twelve falls out of an exploding plane, hurtles through the air towards his TARDIS
>>series 9 finale: Twelve strategically jumps out of a window and plunges into a skull filled lake so hard he passes out
>>83583268
>The finale for this season is literally titled "The Doctor Falls"

The show really loves to throw around the whole "The Doctor goes up and down time and space fighting monsters and saving worlds/civilizations", but for some reason I feel like this sort of thing, more recently, is just said in the show a lot but not actually shown in the onscreen stories (with the exception of the occasional really quick miscellaneous adventure montage).

Can anyone help compile a list of examples of the Doctor actually fighting bad aliens and saving civilizations/worlds? Preferably excluding Earth Invasions? Just curious about how much proper (onscreen) offworld adventuring we've actually had in Twelve's era.

>>83583268
>expecting this season's finale to be kino after that travesty of a 3-parter
Extremis deserved a far better followup than "doctor incorrectly deals with sterilizing super bacteria then gets stumped by a combination lock".
Also weren't they talking on fucking smartphones? Why didn't they just make the call into a video call? Did they break the camera on the damn thing?

>>83583301
He can't fake regenerations either but that didn't stop the Moff :^)

>>83583375
>so weren't they talking on fucking smartphones? Why didn't they just make the call into a video call? Did they break the camera on the damn thing?
What call are you referring to?

The first two parts were fine, the third part would've been good if Moffat actually let Whithouse write a Bill v Doctor episode like the first 15 minutes set it up to be.

>>83583417
>What call are you referring to?
When the doctor is fumbling with the dumb lock and admits to Bill that he's blind.
Maybe I'm remembering that wrong but I swear they were on phones for that bit of communication. I was sitting there watching and thinking "just use the fucking camera"

>>83583476
Bill was on her smart phone, the Doctor was using his sonic sunglasses.
Of course, his sunglasses are equally capable of sending video. So he could 100% have just done that, I remember thinking the same thing

>>83583351
>Can anyone help compile a list of examples of the Doctor actually fighting bad aliens and saving civilizations/worlds? Preferably excluding Earth Invasions? Just curious about how much proper (onscreen) offworld adventuring we've actually had in Twelve's era.
He saved a species from extinction in Time Heist, although he only actually saved two individuals so it could have died out anyway in less than a few generations
And he saved the colony in Smile
Shit, I guess that's actually it for 12 if you exclude Earth stories. You're right.

>>83582818
But how short is a year on Gallifrey?

>>83570916
>>83570709
Just the chameleon circuit doing its job. If it can fuck around with dimensions and name a huge ship look like a police box, it can make huge fridge doors look like wood.

Also the perception filter also exists, so even if the TARDIS doesn't have two sets of doors/a sort of porch as some people theorise, the illusion still works

Also, in The King's Demons we see inside The Master's TARDIS as it is disguised as a Iron Maiden and it looks and it looks completely like there is a solid back to it and nothing inside

>>83582818
He could've just been 200+ before he left Gallifrey. I'm sure there's also been lots of opportunities for the Doctor to slip away from his companions for countless untold adventures.

>>83571037
It's all worth it for "Not fit? Not fit?!" and "CANCEL THE DESTRUCTOR CODES!"

https://www.twitter.com/AdamAJTupper/status/871592762998751232

Should I tell him

>>83583351

>series 8:
Deep Breath: Robots on Earth (Past)
Into the Dalek: Dalek/Human War (Future)
Sherwood: Robots on Earth? (Past)
Listen: literally nothing, rescued Future Pink tho (Past/Future)
Time Heist: Saved alien species (Future)
Caretaker: Robot on Earth (Present)
Kill the Moon: didn't kill the moon to save earth (Future)
Mummy: space train alien (Future)
Flatline: aliens on Earth (Present)
Forest: literally did nothing (Present)
Dark Water/Death in Heaven: Cybermen on Earth (Present)

Count:
Prevented Earth Incursion: 5/11
Actively Fought Monsters / Saved aliens or non-Earth humans: 8/11
Present-day Earth story: 4/11

>series 9 (combining 2-parters where it makes sense as 1 story)
Apprentice/Familiar: Daleks on Skaro (Future?)
Lake/Flood: alien ghost and warlord takeover on Earth (Future/past)
Girl Who Died: aliens on Earth (Past)
Woman Who Lived: alien on Earth (Past)
Zygons: Zygons rebellion on Earth (Present)
Sleep No More: eye crud in space (Future)
Face the Raven: solved a mystery on Earth (Present)
Heaven Sent: solved a mystery inside the Dial (Future)
Hell Bent: ran around Gallifrey doing fuck all (Future)

Count:
Prevented Earth Incursion: 4/9
Actively Fought Monsters / Saved aliens or non-Earth humans: 6/9
Present-day Earth story: 2/9

>series 10
Pilot: ran from a puddle (Present, Future)
Smile: robots on space colony (Future)
Thin Ice: racist dude on Earth? (Past)
Knock Knock: Aliens on Earth (Present)
Oxygen: Fighting The Suits Har Har (Future)
Monks (grouped for being shit): Monks on Earth (Present)
Empress of Mars: Ice Warriors, Mars (....Past? Future?)

Count:
Prevented Earth Incursion: 2/7
Actively Fought Monsters / Saved aliens or non-Earth humans: 6/7
Present-day Earth story: 3/7

Hm.

>>83571037
I've never really gotten into it, or felt the desire to re-watch it

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>>83584231
>ALSO CAPALDI IS SO GODDAMNED GREAT WITHOUT MOFFATT IT'S ASTOUNDING.

>>83575739
They appeared in pretty good stories and were fairly popular
They were deliberately designed to be the next big monster and it sort of worked
They have spooky voices, are evil and are quite menacing
They didn't outstay their welcome in the classic series (only four stories and only three where they were the main villain)
The twist with them on Peladon toyed with audience expectation in a delightful way

They're a bit shit in the new series, and it annoys me how they're like Daleks now, little mutant things in big armour suits, whereas in the classic series they clearly were the size of their suits, like 7 foot tall and those are their real mouths etc - how else do you explain the Ice Lords

>>83584255
Forgot to do totals.
Stories taking place Off-Earth (regardless of adventure type): 13/27 (counting Pilot, Listen)

So less than half. And of those 13, not all involved saving people, fighting monsters, or saving civilizations.

>>83583857
Smile was just saving humans from their own idiocy though more than anything else.

Fuck, no wonder I've been so unsatisfied with the past few seasons.
Far too much earth, not enough space.

Can we swap out the next "aliens in [insert historical period]" episode for something similar on a pre-space age alien planet?

Like really, has the Doctor ever gone to an Alien world still in a feudalism era or something?

>>83584418
>Like really, has the Doctor ever gone to an Alien world still in a feudalism era or something?
You should watch The Ribos Operation.

>>83584325
it's still their real mouths in Cold War

Fuck me The King's Demons is shit. And Time-Flight was a disaster. And I know we have Time/Mark of the Rani coming up.

Is Ainsley's Master just bad or was he shafted by terrible writing, or both?

And what's with the shitty, incredibly obvious disguises?

>>83584477
Is it? So is the entire bottom two thirds machinery? Having them break free of the suits was such a lame idea, Gatiss should be ashamed

>>83584418
>>83584462
>Like really, has the Doctor ever gone to an Alien world still in a feudalism era or something?
>You should watch The Ribos Operation.
The Androids of Tara from the same season also comes to mind. It has an alien, pseudo-medieval setting but with androids.

>>83584397
>Total Civilizations saved: 5 being very generous
Time Heist aliens
Sleep no More planet (unsuccessfully though so?)
Saved Trap Street??
Smile Colony
Zygons?

>Total times large Earth populace or whole planet saved: 8
Sherwood?
Caretaker
Kill the Moon?
Flatline
Death in Heaven
Lake/Flood
Zygons?
Monks

(of total 27 stories, again)

>>83584588
>The Androids of Tara
Not to be confused with Tara the Android https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLy-AwdCOmI

>>83584548
I dunno, I always thought they looked turtle-like so the armor being a shell suit made sense to me.

>>83584588
>>83584462
>>83584418
I feel like the doctor landed on quite a few feudal planets in his third to fifth incarnations

The Monster of Peladon, The Curse of Peladon, The Armageddon Factor, State of Decay to name a few

>>83575739
I like the effect of used for their guns where it sort of warps the picture.

>>83584726
They do that by taking a sheet of I think reflective glass/plastic and just wibbling it a bit - no camera trickery. Simple and effective

>>83583082
what about the unarmored form in cold war?

>>83570792
>Is this what they call "kino"?
Absolutely not. We should all be seeing anon's 6.5" dick right now.

>>83582359
Looked like it was going to be an oustanding episode up until the Doctor's fake regeneration.

>>83572090
I loved those. The only real shit one was the eye booger monster one. So stupid.

Comparing to Smith Era, informal list/count (again ignoring Christmas (except Snowmen), ignoring Day/Time):

series 5:
>Prevented Earth Incursion:
5/11
>Actively Fought Monsters / Saved aliens or non-Earth humans:
8/11
>Present-day Earth story:
3?/11

series 6:
>Prevented Earth Incursion:
5/12
>Actively Fought Monsters / Saved aliens or non-Earth humans:
10/12
>Present-day Earth story:
3/12

series 7:
>Prevented Earth Incursion:
4/14
>Actively Fought Monsters / Saved aliens or non-Earth humans:
10/14
>Present-day Earth story:
3/14

Total (37 stories):

>Total Off-Earth Stories:
13/37 (wow wtf)
>Total Civilizations saved:
5 (Beast Below, Nightmare in Silver humanity?, Akhaten, Silurians?, Asylum??)
>Total times large Earth populace or whole planet saved:
13 (Eleventh Hour, Victory of the Daleks, Vampires, Silurian thing, Big Bang, Day of the Moon, Wedding, Cubes, Manhattan, Snowmen, Bells, Cold War, CRIMSON ORRA)

We should made a spreadsheet for this shit.

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>Trap Street
>The Doctor is lured into a trap there
>mfw I just realized this

>>83585329
so, comparison:

>Present-Day Earth stories:
Eleven: 10/37
Twelve: 9/27
(27%, 33%)

>General Off-Earth Stories:
Eleven: 13/37
Twelve: 13/27
(35%, 48%)

>Actively fighting monsters, or saving aliens or their worlds:
Eleven: 28/37
Twelve: 20/27
(75%, 74%)

>Total Non-Earth/Human civilizations saved:
Eleven: 5 (generous)
Twelve: 5 (generous)

>Times Saving Planet Earth or large Earth population:
Eleven: 13
Twelve: 8

>----------------------------------------

All in all, it actually seems pretty even (so far, obviously couple more Capaldini episodes left to go).

>Both:
- spend same amount of time fighting monsters or saving shit (one quarter of their time spent on something more abstract I guess, or nothing)
- saved the same amount of non- earth+human civilizations (arguably)
- spent roughly one third of their time on present-day Earth
- spent less than half their time off-Earth

>Eleven:
- Saved our world more times
- slightly less time in Present-Day Earth
- less time off-Earth overall.

>Twelve:
- slightly more time on present-day Earth
- more time off-Earth overall.


honestly don't even wanna look at the RTD numbers, for some reason I feel like there's gonna be a lot more alien saving involved and a lot less present day Earth and it'll just be depressing. Anyone wanna chime in?

>>83585782
The entirety of Ecclesiasticalstone's run was in earth/in earth's orbit because they had no money to go anywhere

Pretty much the reason so much of the show is on earth

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>>83585840
You know, I never even realized they never went to an alien planet on screen. Wow

Very quick browse of Tennant Era

Total Stories: 39

Present-Day Earth: 13/39 (33%)

General Off-Earth: 12/39 (30%)

>mfw Ten's era had the least time off-Earth
>mfw Ten's era tied with Twelve for Present-Earth

huh..

>>83586209

boys I've run the numbers and it's pretty conclusive: Doctor Who was always shit

>>83575474
They had a thing about honour i think

>>83575739
Costumes were expensive, so classic show had to justify it by reusing them.

Post yfw when Bill defeats Simm using the power of love.

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>>83587299

Are there any guesses as to what context Simm is going to appear in?

Will it be during the 18 months he spent setting up the Archangel network stuffs, or at some point after he goes back to Gallifrey with Rassilon?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP_sA3VWz38
Bet this guy browses /who/

>>83586209
>>83585840
>>83585910
Yeah, RTD said he had no faith in the BBC's production values to make a place look actually alien and not just a quarry with leaves on it, so that's the reason there are so many earthbound stories.

>>83587486
If Stargate can pass forest outside Vancouver for the entire galaxy (And some hamlet as the entire different galaxy) so could Doctor Who.

Rusty just plain doesn't get how sci-fi works.

The monks three parter has made me so disappointed in Moffat though.

>>83587564
>what is all 26 seasons of classic who

>>83588324
Well, there's Old Who. But it's old, and Stargate is relatively modern, proving that you can pull this off.

>>83588214
good, it's important to be realistic

>>83588214
But Lie of the Land wasn't written by Moffat, and interviews heavily imply that Moffat was too bereaved by his mum's recent death to make Pyramid not sound retarded.

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>>83587390
I bet THIS guy browses /who/.

>>83578904
He's in pyramid. Rewatch.

>>83588995
>Rewatch
I don't think anon deserves punishing, just because they missed some extra.

Anon, are you into animation?
I'm finishing Star vs the Forces of Evil season 2.
It's very beatiful animation-wise, but episodes vary from really pointless fillers to some very clever arc episodes. Also I enjoy MC alot.

>>83588526
I know and I can't hold it against him but the monks were already fatally flawed from the get go. They were a Silence rip off with no clear motives.

I still haven't seen the last series. Can anyone point me in the direction of a stream?

>>83589555
dailymotion

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Happy Birthday to the main man and future showrunner Gareth Roberts

>>83589747
HAPPY

>>83589747
Do you think the reason he's a shitty person is because that's what his face looks like?

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>>83589747

It's mauve and dangerous!

*beat*

And about 30 seconds from the center of London!


*BEWEWBEWEWBEWEWBEWBEWBEWEW*

Who remembers when Doctor Who was comfy with Nine and parts of Ten?

sometimes I browse gareth's twitter after seeing him mentioned here

he literally retweeted from an account called @polNewsForever which has the 4chan/nazi flag as its display picture

>>83589872
based gareth worried about his country

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>>83589883
>based gareth

>>83589921
>not appreciating the genius who wrote the lodger and many other goat classics

>>83587486
>tfw never got to see 9 in a quarry

>>83589716
Can you be more specific?

>>83590098
go to dailymotion and type "doctor who"

"Hello. I'm Kris Marshall, and I play the Doctor."

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>>83590745
FUCK OFF KRIS REEEEEEEEEE

>>83582818
she acts like she's (15) because she's the Gallifreyan equivalent of 15.
Remember Romana was something like 150

All NuWho episodes set mainly on alien planets:
New Earth
Gridlock
Utopia
Planet of the Ood
The Doctor's Daughter
Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead
Midnight
Planet of the Dead
The Waters of Mars
The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone
A Christmas Carol
The Doctor's Wife
The Girl Who Waited
Asylum of the Daleks
The Rings of Akhaten
Nightmare in Silver
The Name of the Doctor
The Time of the Doctor
Time Heist
The Witch's Familiar
Hell Bent
The Husbands of River Song
Smile

That's really not that many, is it?

>>83591573
*Also The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, though it isn't an inhabited planet.

>>83591573
Empress of Mars is set on Mars isn't it?

>christmas special filming this month or next
>series 11 filming in november
>rumours that 13 appears in episode 12, which is 4 weeks away
>still no 13th doctor announcement

>>83591769
I wonder who she will be.

Oh hey, I remember that name from /who/ last year.
https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/new-companion-announcement

>>83591573
You forgot Heaven Sent.

>>83591837
Heaven Sent isn't set on an alien planet.

>>83591926
It definitely wasn't earthbound or anywhere near Earth though.

>>83591824
Nice.

>>83591949
So are 42 and The Beast Below, but a spaceship isn't a planet and neither is a confession dial.

>>83591926
>>83591949
>>83592024
Brushing aside for a moment the fact that the original complaint was about too many episodes being set on Earth, was the dial not sitting on Gallifrey?

Let's settle this:
http://www.strawpoll.me/13117290

>>83591573
>Humans
>Humans
>Humans
>Actually good
>Passable but all colonists
>Humans and what acts like a hive mind
>Humans and a cool ass something
>A desert
>Humans and the Ice Warrior's unfinished business
>Decent plot twist
>Good but basically just earth with cloudfish
>Nice concept but focuses more on the TARDIS than the planet
>Would be better if there were any actual aliens
>Just a frozen shithole with daleks
>Fucking loved the setting, plot was meh
>Might as well be on earth
>Dead planet but alright
>Kino
>Was more about space bank jews than the alien planet
>Wasted potential
>Also wasted potential but at least Heaven Sent was kino
>Good if a little cheesy
>More fucking humans

I wish the BBC was less lazy and gave us some episodes with no fucking humans in them for once.

>>83585910
What's the first alien planet in NuWho?

Is it New Earth?

(Or, if you don't count that, then it'd be The Impossible Planet?)

>>83592110
Not all shows can be Farscape.

>>83592110
Do you think anybody is going to look back and forth between your post and the original to figure out what you're referring to?

>>83592052
The original complaint, yes. That gave me the idea of looking at alien planets specifically.

The whole episode is inside the confession dial and we don't see anything of the outside until the last few minutes, so it doesn't really matter on which planet it is.

>>83588526
you better show me those interviews RIGHT NOW or I don't know what I'll do

Are you seriously asking for aliens? Have you heard of budget?

BBC couldn't afford FOUR PROSTETHICS for Chibnall's Silurian episode, that's why sisters were played by same actress. Holy shit guys.

>>83589328
the only cartoon I watch can't be talked about on this board

>>83591573
All episodes set entirely on alien planets (/with TARDIS scenes):

The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit
Gridlock
Planet of the Ood
Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead
Midnight
The Time of Angels
A Christmas Carol
The Doctor's Wife
The Girl Who Waited
The Witch's Familiar
The Husbands of River Song

>>83592175
Series 5 blew way too much money on creating those bastardised new Dalek props.

>>83592175
They could always go the Babylon 5/Power Rangers route and just make an entire alien race with some minor prosthetics. And those shows have no budget to speak of.

>>83592175
>BBC couldn't afford FOUR PROSTETHICS
And yet they managed 50-60 for Rings of Akhaten?

>>83592221
This goes some way to explaining RTD's "animal head on a humanoid body" decision. A cheap way of making aliens pretty cheaply.

>>83592247
It was hyped up as a "LOOK WE HAVE ALIENS" episode
They can do this once a million years or something

>>83592175
>Are you seriously asking for aliens? Have you heard of budget?
Yes, and a good showrunner will find ways of using it wisely.

>>83590445
Is there not a specific playlist, you passive aggressive prick?

What are some good alien designs in Doctor Who?

Were there many new alien prosthetics in the trap street episode, or was it all random leftovers?

>>83592288
calm down P. Ness

>>83592175
They already have monsters/alien invaders, why not make it civilian?

Though human aliens are not really the problem. I mean, Doctor is an alien.

The problem is so many stories are clustered on contemporary Earth yet they have to maintain status quo. All because the show was revived by someone who hates science fiction.

>>83592300
those aliens that look like penises

>>83592282
Actually they only managed it because one of the people working on the prosthetics made 30 of them or so for free in his spare time.

Maybe if BBC wern't stingy fucking jews and stopped spending all their television license income on feminist propoganda.

>>83592321
What did you think of "humanity was brainwashed for 6 months and don't really remember anything that happened in that time, also there's a massive square of demolished land in the middle of london

Reminder that Class has been ERASED from Doctor Who.

>>83592344
I can believe it honestly if everyone forgot that time the planet was kidnapped by Daleks or the whole cybermen ghost incident.

>>83592300
In NuWho: the Ood, the Teller, the Silents, the Whispermen, Reapers, the Half Face Man.

>>83592300
Ood are kino

>>83592308
Let's just say there's a reason most Trap Street aliens were played by humans, and they only had brief monster cameos (ones they had in the prop cupboard). When they showed the Sontaran one, they even flashed up an old promo image fgs.

>>83592183
Are you the guy who came over from /who/ looking for an episode link? I ask because he announced he was from /who/ for some reason

>>83592389
>whispermen

Fuck, i'd forgotten about them. Shame they were puppets of the GI and not their own villain

>>83592469
I assume they were one of the physical manifestation of Great Intelligence.

>>83592308
I don't think any of the ones with speaking roles were old alien races.

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>Announcing a new companion for the Eighth Doctor - Rakhee Thakrar!

dropped

>>83592823
Is Big Finish the consolation price for not having been picked for the TV show?

>>83592823
I wanted her to be the TV companion SO BADLY. Ah well.

It's not a trick, it's not a plan. I have joined the mongos.

>>83592823
I hope she plays either a real Indian from India or an alien.
Not a """British""" person.

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>>83592823
If they want to tick a few demographics they should reintroduce Rani as a companion. Ethnic, female, sexy? Make her bisexual and everything's golden.

11 AND PONDS AUDIOS FUCKING WHEN

>>83592385
But what about the huge square of demolished land in the middle of london?

>>83592425
No and I don't know the guy you're talking about, I don't go on that board because I don't care about the porn and I'd rather enjoy it on my own than hear the opinions of everyone who hates it now

>>83593222
"""They were shooting a movie or something for 6 months all over the planet and I was involuntarily an extra that's why they raided my house duh"""

>>83593109
back to /pol/, boardie

KILLED BY AN INSECT!

A GIRL!

HOW INAPPROPRIATE!

>>83593183
I'd rather 10/Amy audios desu famalam. And 11/Rose.

http://www.strawpoll.me/13117290

>>83583031
Too bad it wasn't real ;_;

>>83593272
That's why they demolished a huge square of land that would have been where plenty of people went to work?

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>>83583031
>>83593479
Is this a joke? The moment Capaldi is shot is when the episode turns to shit. The way he falls over and the way they filmed it looked especially bad.

Looked pretty good in early teasers though.

>>83593428
I am attracted to neither of those things

>>83593520
Well of course, the Monks didn't just run their simulation to find the best time to invade, they also were looking for prime real-estate.

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>>83593365
Back to GallifreyBase, cancer.

>>83593535
>The way he falls over looked especially bad.
Capaldi flailed around extra erratically to the point of looking silly because it was the doctor acting in-world

It was out of focus so you couldn't see the fact there was no bullet impacts

shut up miss happy die happy

>>83593582
For a man who no doubt bullshits aliens on the regular, you'd think he would be a little better at acting even in-world.

>>83583031
>>83593479
>>83593535
>>83593582
People are saying it was overacted and worth of a Brazilian telenovela death

https://youtu.be/hnHjFb9aR90?t=4m34s

>>83593612
He's good at acting when it comes to dialog and keeping the right face, but physical acting is very different. Ask any actor in real life and they'll tell you that

>>83570516
The potential Doctor Who is so great, greater than any other sci-if show ever made. Unfortunately Moffat has been allowed to first waste, and then utterly ruin every aspect of it possible.

I'll watch the show again when he is not in any way attached to it.

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I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST A FANART SOMEWHERE AROUND BUT THEY ARE HOLDIJNG IT, THEY ARE AWARE ABOUT IT

OH HI MARK

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>>83593669
>I'll watch the show again when he is not in any way attached to it.
Next season, then?

>>83593652
>Live for thousands of years fighting horrible dangers
>never learning how to fake a death
Stop making excuses for the monkshit.

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>>83593700

>>83593678
I'd ask how new but I guess it was 3 years ago so that probably isn't fair

>yfw peter and jenna had to keep a straight face and act thankful

Do you think peter treated it like a father praises their child when they come home with a painting from kindergarten?

Would you rather have had the Doctor really die and then the timeline resets like in the Series 3 finale or keep the fake out regeneration?

>>83593582
>>83593612
>>83593652
>>83593704
The real question is, why was he faking his death at all? Everybody in the room was in on it except Bill, and her pulling the trigger was all the information he needed.

Is spending 6 months encouraging people to turn each other in to be executed or put in labour camps the biggest prank the Doctor has ever played?

>>83593781
Just bantz m8

>>83593781
>Is spending 6 months encouraging people to turn each other in to be executed or put in labour camps the biggest prank the Doctor has ever played?
Not only that, he then lectures Missy about how "I don't kill people to save people" despite spending the last 6 months helping to enforce the rule of alien dictators that go around acting like their name is Mike Pence and everyone else is gay.

>>83593844
He did all that to gain their trust so he could operate freely

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>>83593781
>Is spending 6 months encouraging people to turn each other in to be executed or put in labour camps the biggest prank the Doctor has ever played?
yes

Oxygen > Extremis > World Enough and Time > The Pryamid at the End of the World > The Eaters of Light > The Pilot > The Doctor Falls > smile > Thin Ice >>>>>>>> The Empress of Mars >>>>>>>> knock, knock > The Lie of the Land
OFFICIAL LADS

>>83593893
So the monks have brain damage then?
Why would they ever trust the doctor?
Actually, better question, how did they SIMULATE the doctor?
Surely from their own simulations they know he can at the least teleport through space at will from the events of Extremis and it's not a far stretch for them to know he can travel through time as well.
He's clearly not human either unless the monks never though to scan the dude with a teleporting box to see if he's a human like all the rest, so why let him live?

>>83593975
>lotl
>that high

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>>83593894

http://philsandifer.tumblr.com/post/161447828958/taiey-thehabbadasher-taiey-haha-yeah-so

>>83593975
>Oxygen
>best episode of the series

It's a 7/10. If this ends up like that Series 10 will go down as the worst Moffat series. Yes, at this point Series 7 was better.

>>83594007
Right which is why instead of going into hiding, The Doctor made himself as public as possible and tried to show that this time he was protecting Earth by telling them to obey the Monks. The only way to stop them looking for him was to make a cover story that worked with his history as Earth's defender.

Is that her, the woman twice dead?

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Did Nardole killed this guy?

I miss Amy

https://youtu.be/Syqm8v3Xr1g

>>83593893
>so he could operate freely
And his first free action was to crash the ship and alert all the Monks to the fact that he's gone rogue?

>>83594131
>Yes, at this point Series 7 was better
I disagree
S10 is better than S7. S6 is borderline, depends how it finishes. But there have been too many misses and too few remaining episodes for it to be able to surpass 5, 8 or 9

MAKE PEACE WITH YOUR GODS

Pre-Pyramid I was almost certain S10 was going to be my favourite season of he new series.

>>83594356
This. Pyramid and Lie killed that dead. Series 5 and 8 are above. Hell even 9. 6 is a close call. At this point if all the remaining episodes are Pyramid or Lie-tier then even Series 7 will be better.

>the monks defended earth from the daleks and cybermen
>by killing them on other planets
What did they mean by this?

>>83594284
fuck no she was shit

>>83594401
>Hell even 9
Even the previous best season is better than S10? Shocking

>>83594408
They meant that the show is no longer made out of love but by necessity to keep the BBC alive.

>>83594131
>Yes, at this point Series 7 was better.
Series 7 doesn't have a single good episode.

File: City_of_Death_DVD_Netherlands_cover.jpg (48KB, 390x549px) Image search: [Google]

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Name a better story in all of Doctor Who than this.

You can't.

>>83594439
>previous best season
No. Magician, Girl were subpar. Before the Flood was a disappointing mess. Woman and Sleep No More were utter failures.

>>83594356
>>83594401
The Monk trilogy was just shit in general
>extremis was a wasted episode
>the monks don't actually do anything

The only way they can redeem it is if they come back to it later on in the series. But the monks aren't nearly interesting enough for me to care.

>>83594476

The Caves of Androzani.

City of Death is great though.

>>83594464
Yes it has. Actually most of them are pretty good except Power of Three, Journey and Nightmare.

>>83594509
No it doesn't.

Series 10 is the best of NuWho. You guys are just mad Moffat didn't copy your fanfiction.

>>83594526
Okay mongo, that's your opinion.

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>>83594476

Official Moffat series ranking

5 > 8 > 7 > 9 > 10 > 6

>>83578254
>at this point my top 10 Who stories ever is like half Capaldi

I agree that my top 10 New Who stories is half Capaldi.

>>83580626
He Nardy now

>>83594479
>magician
characterkino
>girl
fun romp with some good characterkino

The only good Capaldi episodes are Deep Breath, Dark Water and Heaven Sent. Prove me wrong.

>>83594603
>victory of the daleks
>beast below
>hungry earth/cold blood
>vampires of venice
>shitty angels two parter
>big bang

is there a more overrated series than 5? it's not even that good.

>>83594686
>Prove me wrong.
okay
Deep breath isn't good

>>83594708
>>shitty angels two parter
That was kino you pleb

>>83594684
Magician really wasn't characterkino. Witch was.

Girl was a mess.

>>83594708
All of these are good to GOAT except Victory which is subpar.

>>83594763
pleb

>>83594484
Extremis was brilliant what is wrong with you? How is it "wasted"?
Fucking autists I swear.

>>83594800
>/who/ hyped for a gattiss episode

this place is retarded now.

>>83594782
Yes go rename your little reaction pics faggot. We know who you are.

>>83594800
It adds nothing to the story, and was literally "all just a dream". Although the concept of the Veritas was good

>>83575989
>>83576118
Fuck me look at the difference in neck length

>>83594708
Matt really fucking lifts that series. It's also the most straightforwardly good series, thematically and plotwise.

>>83594832
It set up the Monks as a threat, which is more adding to outside episodes than almost all Doctor Who stories do ever.
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>83594763
Magician had this gem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8l9GImBFfo
once you stop pissing yourself laughing you'll admit I'm right

>>83578355
I already hate the voice she's using. Could she be any more generic?

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>ywn be as brave and selfless as Toberman

why even live

>>83594893
>>83594893
>>83594893
>>83594893
>>83594893