/who/ - Doctor Who General

So, what was this all about? He's not directing this year's chistmas special, that's for sure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w6agKVUCTM

weakest villain in Doctor Who history

MONK: WE'VE RUN EVERY POSSIBLE SIMULATION AND YOU KNOW WHAT WE DISCOVERED, DOCTOR?

DOCTOR: NO, WHAT!

THE WHITE RACE DIES ALL HAIL THE BIG BLACK COCK MASTER RACE!

MONK: IT'S WHITEY GENOCIDE TIME!

BILL: HELL YES. DEATH TO THE NAZIS!

>>83275408
but they can use literal magic to do whatever the plot wants them to

>>83275522
Does trump survive the white genocide?
He's orange, after all

Simm new Doctor confirmed?

>>83275529
and have cock sucking mouths

>>83275216
I really feel that they made this a 3-parter just for the sake of it. Most of what happened in this episode could've been condensed into 10 minutes.

>>83275408
They look good, I just wish they found a better solution to the talking thing.

>>83275589
would you want to put your cock in a mouth with those teeth?

>>83275628
Yeah this episode felt really uneventful. Extremis was great but doesn't have much bearing on the plot of the rest of the '3-parter'.

The monks were actually spooky in moff's episode, in harness's they're just shite
>>83275628
I'll take a shitty harness episode if the first and last of the 3 are great

>>83275645
I'd consent if they don't bite.

>>83275671
I agree, I'm hoping next week makes up for this shitfest. Extremis was a solid start

the twist next week is they're all still in a simulation (they're not virtual people this time though, they're real ones in a matrix type thing) which is why the monks can do OP shit like make The Doctor see again in an instant. in reality the monks are some shitty powerless aliens who are using the simulation to make themselves seem godlike so humanity submits to them

Why couldn't The Doctor use the camera on his glasses to stream to Bill's phone to read the numbers on the combination? you know, the feature that was the basis of the entire previous episode?!

Why did they say Bill's motives were out of love when it was clearly fear? You could even see it plastered all over her fucking face; don't need to be a mummified spooky skellington to see that shit.

Why are these villains so shit, even by Moff standards? Like literally the most uninteresting garbage.

How do they know it's a 5000 year old pyramid if it wasn't there yesterday? Why are they so confident on the ageing of it?

>>83275794
Bill's phone isn't compatible with Time Lord tech

He didn't do a super upgrade on it like with Rose's phone

>>83275897
this nigga hacked the entire world's intelligence databases in a matter of seconds by putting his hand on a bunch of display monitors; I really don't think finding a way to project his vision to either her or Erica is a stretch.

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The Moon is an egg. Your argument is invalid.

>that preview

god damn it

does ANYONE like missy?

why do they wheel her out every season god damn

>>83275551
clearly he's alien. we've had blue humanoid aliens in who before, why not orange?

why has netflix started doing these bullshit autoplay ads

>>83276082
most people here like her

>>83275750
I sincerely hope it's this because the alternative is worse

>>83275794
>you know, the feature that was the basis of the entire previous episode?
Also the feature that was used in reality in under the lake
the doctor had no excuse, harness is just a hack

This feels too much of a retread of the saxon series with martha

I mean the Moon is an egg. When I read the script, I thought "That is the most brilliant thing I've ever heard of". We had to have him back for series 10 and I think you'll be surprised at what he has for us this time. The villain is like nothing you've ever seen in Doctor Who. It's really gonna be a whopper.

>>83276138
how so?

>>83276036
>>83276153
I honestly think the moon being an egg for giant space creature is a great premise. It was just that the episode's execution,plot and resolution were total wank.

>>83276100
What do you mean the alternative? That the monks are really that powerful?

>>83275794
>>83276124
Is it too out of the realm of possibility to say he was pressed for time and wasn't thinking before Bill jumped the shark?

>Why did they say Bill's motives were out of love when it was clearly fear?
She traded the world for the Doctor's safety. That level of care falls under love.

>>83276157

World 'overnight' changes into some dystopia with evil bad guys ruling it. More than likely to end in some bull shit ex-machina centering around bill.

Just feel like its been done before

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>tfw 16980 days until the 100th special

Fun Fact: 16980 days ago the independent People's Republic of South Yemen renamed itself as People's Democratic Republic of Yemen

>>83276189
Were the military people and the Secretary General not also trading the world for peoples safety?

>>83276220
They were doing it to "Fight again another day"

Why did the monks ignore she was using strategy by saving the Doctor so he can save them from the monks?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BondVillainStupidity

>>83276196
Shit feels like a cross between that and Day of the Moon. Still, Whithouse writing keeps me hopeful.

>>83276276
I don't think she was. I think she was acting out of pure emotion, just wanting to save The Doctor's life without thinking about what happens next

Of course all that does is make one character's actions retarded instead of another, but hey ho

>>83275813
>Cautiously approach pyramid
>Collect sample of stone
>Run tests
>Learn age
Of course with the overall stupidity of the episode we can't even assume that the logical answer is correct. Or that any thought was put into it at all.

Is anyone getting fringe season 5 vibes from next weeks episode? It's like the observer dystopia

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THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T GO TO WORK WITH A HANGOVER WHEN YOU'RE DOING HAZARDOUS SHIT!

>>83276473
Dan Miller's let himself go.

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>>83275216
>dude CONSENT LMAO
>CONSENT CONSENT CONSENT CONSENT
something has to be done about these terrible fucking writers man
>>83275813
carbon dating. one of the few things about the episode that i won't say was horrible. it makes sense

>>83276241
But after the bomb explodes Bill says "tell you what old man, you better get my planet back", so Bill consented so the Doctor could "fight again another day"
I just don't see how Bills consent was any different

I honestly loved Kill the Moon and liked a lot of the Zygon 2-parter, but I really didn't like this episode, and the few bits I did like I am 100% were from Moffat, not Harness. I'm not a "plot hole" kinda guy but the narrative here was just so tenuous that I had trouble investing in it. The consent theme becoming more explicit here was good, but the political stuff was terrible, and the ending was unearned and felt like a miswrite of Bill.

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Patronising twunt thread?

Has anybody done a counter for how many times they say 'consent' in that episode?

>>83276714
Neo I missed you I thought you left for good ;_;

>>83276575
how long does it take to carbon date something?

CONSENT
CONSENT
CONSENT
CONSENT
CONSENT

It'll be interesting to see who wrote which parts if the script is ever released.

>>83276590
Who's this qt?

>>83276746
1-3 days

>>83276744
I pop in now and again but onseason moves a bit fast for me and I can't stand all the fakespoiler (and hell, real spoiler) stuff.

>>83276749
The consent stuff has been the theme of the whole series, a bit over halfway feels like a natural enough point to make it more explicit instead of just thematic. I agree they overdid it though.

>>83276790
Pyramid had been there for less than a day

>>83276744
you can really tell the writer/s went to a "rape is bad mmkay" seminar the night prior

>>83276804
well my source is from 2006 they might have gotten quicker since then idk
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2006-12/1165769241.Es.r.html

>>83276575
>carbon dating
That's actually a pretty outdated method.

>>83276809
It wasn't even remotely subtle, yeah.

>>83276797
Sorry I haven't gotten to your art yet I'm in the middle of moving, expect art fills in June <3

>>83276749
I want Ericas consent to cuddle

>>83276276
Look dude it's real simple. UN guy and military guys were not acting out of love. Bill was. I don't see the relevance of that article since their primary goal is not to kill Bill or the Doctor but to find someone in power to give them "consent."

>>83276575
he whole "consent" thing was a really neat concept. You get the impression the monks are using a concept that's natural to them but doesn't easily translate into English. Makes them feel very alien.

>>83276640
Bill hopes that the Doctor will somehow free Earth, that's not really much of a strategy, is it? And she didn't consent to save the Earth, which would have been fine if she didn't, she did it purely to save the Doctor's life.

>>83276809
It's not a rape thing, it's a natural theme to focus on after a series culminating in a mutual mindwipe (series 9). The Pilot even made that as clear as they could without literally saying it. Knock Knock had Suchet doing things "for" his relative without their actual consent, monster in Thin Ice held against its consent, the ending of Smile was unearned because without memory there's no true consent, Extremis was a whole universe made against its inhabitants consent, etc.

It's a weird thing to focus on really but Doctor Who hasn't done it before and Moff's made it flow on from series 9 as naturally as he could. I wonder what made him suddenly into the idea. Probably thinking about mindwipes a lot.

>>83276849
No worries mate, glad moving has worked out for you! Hope it's a comfy enough place.

>>83276809
The episode had nothing to do with rape. Is that the only context you associate the word consent with? The use of that specific word really just plays into their being legalistic.

Edge, what was your major? What do you do for living?

Why did Erica need to hold the door open at all? She didn't go back in to get anything after that. Even if she needed to, why couldn’t she have just opened the door by the handle? It’s not like that’s a difficult task in any capacity

>humanity is at their weakest in the whole of history when trump is president

They put way too much emphasis on the breaking glasses and bottle like 'everything went wrong because these two small things' but it was such an unimportant plot point that never got any attention in dialogue. Why was it in the episode at all?

"We will talk again at the end of the earth" - but they talk again when the UN guy tries to consent which is prior to bill consenting which would be considered “the end of the earth"

Why did they make a big deal out of the doctor supporting an air strike as if it was an immoral mistake, only for it to never come up again and lead to nothing?

Why did the monks teleport into the fighter jet when they were already using a glowy light beam to control and land it?

If the monks have modelled every catastrophe and there's a catastrophe eliminating every living thing in less than a year, why do they have any catastrophes modeled after that?

Why did they say "Not a single living thing” regarding the future visions when that vision included a tree?

Why was the doctor begging "no please stop don't do this" when the UN guy tried to consent, when the doctor outranks him? He had the right and authority to order him to step down.

Why did Douglas take his helmet off in the room with the experimental untested gas?

The doctor just released every government secret on google and there was no mass panic among civilians? And it will never be addressed again?

Nardole just jumps in with "bacteria" straight away, no buildup or thought process at all, and everyone treats it like it has to be the only answer straight away when there's no confirmation at all. They banked a lot on their baseless guess being correct the first time

Why did they use both the melodies from I Am the Doctor and 1969 (the music when matt fake-died in S6)? This is quite possibly the first capaldi episode to not use his theme in any capacity

GM biochemical bacteria disintegrates living material to goo in a matter of seconds? Did Doctor Who suddenly become a Birdemic-tier shitty disaster movie?

The lab has a venting cycle to eliminate harmful toxins from the air, but it releases it straight out into the atmosphere? No filtration process or safe disposal? What if someone stole their experimental chemicals by collecting it from the exhaust outside the building?

Why did the doomsday clock start counting backwards when the doctor set up the bomb? If the monks knew about the bomb, considered it to be a bad thing that was ruining their plan, and have the ability to manipulate reality (proven by them fixing the security cameras and the doctor's eyes), why didn't they just stop the bomb?

The doctor has literally used the sonic sunglasses to livestream camera footage before - he did it in Under the Lake. Why didn't he do it here? He was literally using the glasses to call bill at that exact moment already, there was absolutely zero reason why he couldn’t have done it. If they had just broken the sonic sunglasses so he was truly vulnerable and just had him call bill some other way there wouldn’t have been this problem.

Bill's consent was out of fear of a world without the doctor, and love for the doctor. The monks wanted love for the monks. Why was this valid consent to them?

Why did the doctor and Erica just stand there while the fucking room exploded instead of going into the tardis?

Bill said "you better get my planet back" but nothing had gone wrong yet, why was she scared when she had just decided consenting to the monks was the right thing to do?

Who was the director? Why did they do so many shots with a "whoosh"-entrance done by speeding up the footage? It looked tacky as fuck

I invented Doctor Who.

>>83276959
>Is that the only context you associate the word consent with?
if we're talking context look at the context of the season
>race issues shoehorned in Thin Ice
>capitalism strawman shoehorned in Oxygen
what's the odds they're shoehorning a rape narrative in Pyramid?

I'll give you a hint: very good odds

>>83276996
>They put way too much emphasis on the breaking glasses and bottle like 'everything went wrong because these two small things' but it was such an unimportant plot point that never got any attention in dialogue. Why was it in the episode at all?

I feel like the bottles cutaways and stuff meant they intended it to be a show-y visual thing, like the "time happening all at once" concept excellently portrayed in The Pilot, but the director here didn't seem to really run with it so it felt stilted.

>The doctor just released every government secret on google and there was no mass panic among civilians? And it will never be addressed again?

That annoyed me a lot too.

>Nardole just jumps in with "bacteria" straight away, no buildup or thought process at all, and everyone treats it like it has to be the only answer straight away when there's no confirmation at all. They banked a lot on their baseless guess being correct the first time

I feel like the terrorism scene was cut out here, they cut to that idea weirdly quickly.

>Why did they use both the melodies from I Am the Doctor and 1969 (the music when matt fake-died in S6)? This is quite possibly the first capaldi episode to not use his theme in any capacity

His theme is in the episode where he does his camera plan in the TARDIS with Nardole. I didn't hear any I Am The Doctor, though I did hear the 50th/Heaven Sent montage theme.

>>83276996
All valid questions of course they have an equally valid answer:

Moffat
spoiler]the man is style over substance,
every time. remember #planeshavestopped?

>>83277069
Except when you watch the episode it's not there.

>>83277085
>All valid questions of course they have an Equally valid answer: Moffat is a hack.

>>83277070
>I feel like the terrorism scene was cut out here
oh shit you know what you're probably right, I had forgotten about that
that resolves one of the fuckton

>>83276906
>>83276809
>>83276849
>>83276959
Ok you guys I'm taking a break for my assignment to answer this and I haven't even gotten the chance to watch this one yet.

Before a doctor does anything, ANYTHING, you must ask for consent. Not only before the procedure but sometimes you have to ask it during it and right before some subpart you should ask (is it okay for me to procede) etc so it sounded to me like some kind of medical meme.

>>83277092
Except when I watched the episode it was obvious as fuck what they were doing.
Why don't you wander on back over to tumblr?

>>83277070
>>83277101
terrorism scene?

>>83276809
Except everybody was "consenting" to something that they didn't really want. It was coerced consent, dummy. There is no positive moral behind it.

>>83277129
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-27/doctor-who-episode-edited-for-saturday-airing-following-manchester-bombing

>write an episode trying to be topical
>have to cut scenes when they're too topical

>Actual quality discussion going on
wew

>>83276906
Yeah moving in today, roomie is going to watch DW for the first time with me <3

>>83276991
I'm an artist. Not always, but most of the time people pay me to draw porn of various Tennant characters banging their oc's I am not even jokingIt's a livin'

The Harness Style(tm):

>set on Earth
>world governments
>fake American accents
>goes full SJW, even by NuWho standards
>brings up controversial issues, but mangles the message so badly that every side is offended

>>83277144
>various Tennant characters
by which you mostly mean doctor whooves

>>83277130
>It was coerced consent, dummy. There is no positive moral behind it
I'm not saying there was a positive moral behind it, or that the aliens were using the word consent correctly.
My point is it felt like the entire episode was someone trying to shove the definition of consent down our throats.

WHAT IF this episode was a simulation specifically engineered to convince Bill to give the monks consent? the stupid decisions by other characters and contrived plot were all to goad her into thinking consenting was the right choice

>>83277092
Any consent not given out of love is not TRUE CONSENT.

>>83277154

Oh, and

>humanity makes a choice, but it's the wrong one because Harness says so and it's up to the Doctor/his companion to fix it

>>83277154
You're right except for the fact that KTM was an anti-abortion metaphor

>>83277170
occam's razor tells me Moffat is just a hack

>>83277165
Sometimes. Mostly Kilgrave tbqh.

>>83277182
What if you feel both love AND fear? Does one cancel out the other?

>>83277168
>the entire episode was someone trying to shove the definition of consent down our throats
but I didn't consent to having anything shoved down my throat

>>83277199
>Does one cancel out the other?
apparently not otherwise bill should have died because she was fearing a world without the doctor

>>83277144
Where did you learn to draw? How much time did it consume?

this show jumped straight from one of the better nuwho episodes, last week, to so bad that I had to skip through the parts that were making me cringe

it was rushed

I dont know if you euros realize this, but Nuwho's portrayal of global military power works is also super cringy. This episode we had chunli, 'the UN secretary' like that's a real thing that someone knows or cares about, some goofy soldiers in bright blue helmets, and some 20 year old ivan, and we're supposed to believe that any of this is 'normal.' I realize they can't afford real tanks and real soldier equipment for a filler episode, and euros don't care about the US, but they're not even attempting to make things look or seem plausible.

So I think for S11 we need to create a second SJW bingo. There's been something in every episode so far. What do they have left to cover? I don't think trans stuff has been mentioned yet, but most likely it will with Master/Missy

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>>83277124
>reading politics and rape into everything
>telling other people to go to tumblr

>>83277232
what baffles me is why they had to make the UN out to be some sort of military organisation with real power, when they could use UNIT, the fictional military force created within Doctor Who for this precise narrative purpose. Just imagining all those people were UNIT members makes the situation seem a little less retarded.

>>83277105
Ooh interesting thought.

>>83277154
heh

>>83277188
This desu, Moffat stories never have a good payoff. The Doctor will do something fancy or Bill will do something fancy and the entire 3-parter will wrap up in the last 5 mins.

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>>83277267
Terrible writing staff
This person worked on an Australian soap opera Neighbours before coming to Doctor Who

>>83277269
Almost everything we get is almost prefixed with - wash hands, ask for consent.

>>83277232
This wasn't filler div

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LET'S PAT OURSELVES ON THE BACK YOU GUYS!

Liberal genocide when?

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>>83277252
>reading politics and rape into everything
Please tell me with a straight face Thin Ice and Oxygen weren't putting forward a political message, you fucking moron

The doomsday clock is literally just a fearmongering tool wrapped around the metaphor of a clock, because of its inherent implication that clocks must go forwards and approach midnight. It's an incredibly manipulative tool used to spread fear among the masses, controlled by partisan individuals with political motives. Why anybody gives it any form of credibility whatsoever is way beyond me.

>>83277221
What the heck was the point of consent being 'pure' then. Their terms sure are iffy.

>>83277224
I've just...always been drawing since I could pick up a crayon. It's a pursued talent. A friend of mine when I was in highschool never used to draw, was inspired by me, took classes, and now he not only draws better than me but he's working on a fucking TV show. All over the course of like 6 years feels bad man

>>83277232
I-I liked it

>>83277319
But last week's episode had that too? Why didn't he mate that tweet then?

>>83277334
>I-I liked it
Do you have any responses to the mass of questions posted above?

>>83277383
dude just like turn ur brain off lmao xd

>>83277383
>implying anybody actually cares about my opinion

This episode is prime proof that having 2 writers that don't communicate is a terrible idea

>>83277400
I care enough to explicitly ask for it in this context. I haven't actually seen a supporting argument yet from anyone who says they liked the episode.

>>83277168
>My point is it felt like the entire episode was someone trying to shove the definition of consent down our throats.
But what do you mean by this? Because if in real life if someone "consented" under those conditions (threat of death), it would still be rape. The consent in the episode is absolutely not the definition of consent.

>>83277440
>The consent in the episode is absolutely not the definition of consent.
Which feeds into my point that they're showing an incorrect form of consent to underline their point.

>>83277426
There's an awful lot of questions up there for me to reply to all of them, did you have anything specific? Honestly I just found it really comfy, Nardole collapsing in the TARDIS had my interest, the Doctor finally admitting he was blind, that one dude just getting completely fucking brutally destroyed like that for a PG rated show, etc

If you're wondering how a human-made genetically modified biochemical gas has the ability to turn all living matter into goo within seconds after exposure, and other science facts - just repeat to yourself "it's just a show, I should really just relax"

>>83277484
>I just found it really comfy
what aspects were comfy to you?

>>83277484
The Doctor Who DVDs have been consistently rated M15+ here in Australia since Capaldi. I'm amazed they're still getting away with PG broadcast ratings.

it was shit

>>83277458
>incorrect
I wish you had said that earlier. Now I think I understand your point.

>>83277484
>the world is on the brink of total species extinction
>comfy

>>83277017
>If the monks knew about the bomb, considered it to be a bad thing that was ruining their plan, and have the ability to manipulate reality (proven by them fixing the security cameras and the doctor's eyes), why didn't they just stop the bomb?
Because they're there, at least ostensibly, to offer help, not to hold the world hostage.

>>83277324
I didn't say they weren't.

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>>83276575
>looking forward to new episode as this season hasn't been terrible yet
>moffat in opening credits
>immediately predict it will be shit
>it's shit

>Because they're there, at least ostensibly, to offer help, not to hold the world hostage.

Wasn't the whole point of the episode to show that Monks are actually evil, and consent thing and help offering is just a ruse?

>>83277625
the only moffat written episode i liked so far was actually the pilot

>>83277506
actually that was one of the few points I was fine with. It's not like they gave an exact chemical formula,it's enough for my suspension of disbelief

>>83277650
Wetfu alone pushed it up a few notches for me

Monks trilogy is SHIT so far
Episode one could be crammed into 10 minutes prologue and it would be better
Episode two has so many logical flaws its insane
Monks themselves are boring generic evil villains that people wont remember in one year

>>83277682
agree strongly

>>83277667
they accidentally made GMO bacteria not goo gass

>>83277686
Episode 1 presented an interesting mystery and had an actual payoff
fuck episode 2

>>83277532
>12's narration trope with his guitar
>I just personally like those sterile labs for some reason
>Audibly laughed when 12 uploaded everything to google what the fuck
>Monk in a plane, teleporting zombie in an enclosed space bothers me
>Whatever the hell those glowing thought noodles were
>Nardole btfo
>That one scientist visibly melting
>Monk triple kill
>Doctor getting his sight back

I mean it's the little things y'know

>>83277537
Ratings in Australia are pretty strict compared to everywhere else though, I thought? Like especially when it comes to videogames and stuff

>>83277568
I mean, just look at my trip

I think the Monks look cool but they sound and act exactly like The Silence

>>83277713
>Episode 1 presented an interesting mystery and had an actual payoff
It tried with matrix concept, but what was the pay off?

>>83276906
Glad to see someone gets it.

Baddies who invade by consent purely through waiting long enough for an opportunity they know is coming.

The Doctor did his 'line in the sand' thing which has always worked in the past (indeed, last week) and it didn't work, there is nothing for him to resist.

The wider question it then raises is for the Doctor himself, he meddles without being invited and without being asked. The Doctor is actually a classic liberal interventionist and liberal interventionism is something we have a lot of questions about these days.

>>83277537
They've all been rated 12+ in the UK as well.

>>83277593
>I didn't say they weren't
and this is why, in context, I believe "consent" was used in this episode for political reasons.

if you can admit that other episodes in this season have been heavily politicized, then you can admit I have reasonable cause to believe that the constantly repeated use of "consent" was done for political reasons, ie. "educating" people on rape.

>>83277717
>Ratings in Australia are pretty strict compared to everywhere else though, I thought? Like especially when it comes to videogames and stuff

Video game ratings are strict as fuck because the ratings board is literal old women who think the fact it's interactive means everything should be at least one rating tier higher than if the same content was just a movie. TV content isn't as uptight, our ratings system is just different - we have G, PG, then it's straight to M15 and MA15+. The difference I believe is that MA is restricted while M is more a suggested guideline for parents. There's no such thing as PG13, so anything that would get rated that in the states is more than likely bumped up to M

>>83277736
I don't know about that anon but the cliffhanger that a mystery alien force with a wealth of info about human history is about to attack Earth was pretty cool. Shame this episode shat the bed

>>83277767
Different anon here
I understand where you're coming from and follow your logic, but the use of "consent" in this episode was not presented as having any parallels to sexual interactions. There weren't any wacky "wink wink" quips about it or anything that even implied consent was being used the same way here. I'm almost certain that harness came up with the idea after hearing shit about sex consent, but the episode doesn't display that side of it

>>83277749
>there is nothing for him to resist.

really like this point

>The Doctor is actually a classic liberal interventionist and liberal interventionism is something we have a lot of questions about these days.

Very interesting reading of it.

>>83277790
But it wasn't a cliffhanger. Cliffhanger -- it's when some imminent threat is on screen.
Doctor didn't even do anything after he knew - he waited until some army men discovered that they landed in Turmezistan. It's no way a imminent threat.

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Everyone post your Top Ten Moffats.

The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
Heaven Sent
--power gap--
Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead
Blink
The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang
The Girl in the Fireplace
--larger power gap--
The Day of the Doctor
The Eleventh Hour
A Christmas Carol
The Impossible Astronaut / Day of the Moon

>>83277768
Oh neat, I had to look this up because I've never heard of M15 or MA15+, since I go by the MPAA (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17)

Y'all got some weird systems put in place over there

>>83277628
They are certainly opportunistic, but the help offering isn't a ruse in the sense that they were actually offering (and ultimately provided) needed help, albeit at a terrible cost. Stopping the Doctor from saving the world would be engineering a disaster that forces people to consent to their demands, which would be no different than just threatening to kill everyone.

>>83277853
GENUINE GOAT TIER
Heaven Sent

PRETTY GREAT TIER
Girl in the Fireplace
Empty Child/Doctor Dances
Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead
Blink
Eleventh hour

FUNCTIONAL TIER
Pandorica/big bang
day
name
time
astronaut/moon

SHIT TIER
christmas carol

>>83276906
Oh and another thing, think about it this way.

The Monks ask permission to intervene to save the world, and you pay a price that they run the world. The Doctor tells us this isn't a price worth paying.

The Doctor normally intervenes to save the world, and he's the President of the World. What price is being paid here?

The resonant themes of inteventionism and consent are why it was set in a 'sandy place' and a 'stan.

Which is a perfect set up to Missy, who is obviously imprisoned in a form the Monks can't detect. The Master is decidedly not liberal interventionist, she is someone who has faced execution for crimes against the universe.

>>83277853
Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead
The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances
Heaven Sent
The Girl in the Fireplace
The Eleventh Hour
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang
The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon
Blink
The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone
The Day of the Doctor*

Special nod to The Night of the Doctor

*It wasn't great but it came out pretty well after a troubled production

>>83277891
>Y'all got some weird systems put in place over there

I'd argue it's no weirder than yours, you're just more accustomed to the one you grew up with and are familiar to. At least in australia we have the exact same ratings system for both movies and games, so there's no multiple systems to keep track of

What's an R movie equivalent to in australian ratings, do you think? In australia that's the Restricted 18+ rating used for explicit sexual nudity (I think porn with visible penetration gets its own specific X 18+ rating), but I don't think that's the case for you. I remember watching american shows where they have kids sneak into R movies and the way everyone treats it makes it sound like it's not as serious as something meant to be 18+, more like the 15+ M rating

>>83277852
we didn't know that until this episode though.

Extremis ended with The Doctor telling Missy that something was coming. The implication was that it was imminent.

>>83277966
>after a troubled production
do you have any details of that?

BECOZ I'S MY GOOST
AND I LOV IM

>>83277912
what was so bad about Christmas Carol? It was one of the only Moffat xmas specials I've liked.

>>83278071
oh fuck I got mixed up with doctor/widow/wardrobe
you can ignore that one, chuck it in pretty great tier

That list is actually pretty incomplete isn't it. The rest are probably in functional tier or "eh tier"

>>83277992
> At least in australia we have the exact same ratings system for both movies and games, so there's no multiple systems to keep track of

It IS pretty dumb we have two rating systems, you have a point there pls excuse my previous elitism

>>83277853
Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead
Empty Child / Doctor Dances
Impossible Astronaut / Day of the Moon
The Pilot
Eleventh Hour
Heaven Sent
Time Heist
Husbands of River Song

- Large power gap -
Good man goes to war
Beast Below

>>83277853
Roughly in order of preference (also I'm counting the S9 finale as separate and other 2parters as together just because they feel like distinctly separate episodes and the others don't):

Heaven Sent
Hell Bent
Dark Water / Death in Heaven
Listen
The Time of the Doctor
Last Christmas
The Night of the Doctor
The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
Extremis
The Girl in the Fireplace

>>83277913
I love your ideas here, I hope you post more analysis on next week's ep when it airs too. Anything else to add in how it plays with the Capaldi Doctor characterisation specifically?

>>83278098
Oh man, The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe was garbage. An annoying waste of Alexander Armstrong and Bill Bailey.

>>83277790
Yeah it kind of sucks that the Doctor didn't take a more proactive stance against the monks. And that his finding out about them didn't seem to affect their plans at all, like they weren't forced to invade earlier than they planned so the Doctor would have less time to prepare. They still got to carry their plans out perfectly as far as we can tell.

There is LITERALLY only a couple things wrong with Hell Bent

>>83278182
Same as Pyramid

>>83276996
Not to mention

If trump is president in the real world, why wasn't he president in the monk's simulation that's meant to be super accurate and shit?

>>83278207
There is a rather large list higher in the thread that suggests pyramid has more than just a couple things wrong with it

>>83278210
Because depicting him with the correct hair colour would put the BBC in a mini controversy

>>83278158
No Blink or Silence in the Library?

>>83277823
Its going to end with Missy saying "I thought you were going to teach me how to be good? But look at this, we had world peace and you ended it".

And the Doctor is going to dissemble like Tony Blair because he tries to be good but it doesn't mean good things happen. Its all being set up for this, we've had discussions of his failures and his kill count, we've had a discourse on the nature of virtue with Missy already.

For some reason whenever Dr Who tries to do something interesting (that only Dr Who can do because of the way it can play with ideas), /tv/ hates it. If you want Sci-Fi narrative, why not watch Babylon 5 instead. Thats appallingly literal at all times.

>>83278210
maybe his hair turned black from shock when he realised he wasn't real

>>83278239
That's why they didn't have him in extremis, of course
But why immediately contradict it in the next episode? To make a quick "lol orange" joke that everyone's heard before and adds nothing to the plot?

things i liked
>The interventionism dilemma basically being the opposite of Kill the Moon (even though the execution was shit)
>Nardole explaining the plot to The Doctor
>The way The Doctor was written as being overly cocky in those scenes towards the end. at first i thought it was out of character then i realised it's because the doctor is probably shitting himself. Capaldi played it amazingly.
>The Doctor's outfit

>>83278240
I like those episodes a lot, especially Silence, I just like the ones I listed more.

>>83278244
Love it. I love how Moff constructs the themes/arcs for Capaldi, it's a lot more subtextual than how he did for Matt (let alone how RTD did it in his era).

>>83277753
>>83277992

I live in a country with almost nonexistent rating and the whole concept is pretty alien to me. I mean, we do have it, but nobody gives a shit about it, it's there because there has to be one on paper.

So, if a movie is rated, say, for 15year olds and more - will they deny you entrance in the cinema if you are 13 ?

>>83278259
>But why immediately contradict it in the next episode?
Because the audience isn't stupid enough to trip over something so minor?

>>83278275
>So, if a movie is rated, say, for 15year olds and more - will they deny you entrance in the cinema if you are 13 ?
In australia, if it's MA, I believe so. If it's M but you're with parents they wouldn't care. If something's R18 and you look young or borderline they'd probably ask for your ID

>>83278244
>For some reason whenever Dr Who tries to do something interesting (that only Dr Who can do because of the way it can play with ideas), /tv/ hates it.
what we hate is this dogshit episode

bear in mind these themes are still speculation at this point, and a crap episode gives us less hope that they will be satisfyingly explored

>>83278275
Australian here.

M15+ is only recommendation, they won't/can't turn you away at the cinema if you're 13 and trying to see one of those. I did it all the time as a kid.

MA15+, they will enforce, depends on the cinema how heavily. R18+ gets enforced fairly strongly, I occasionally see youngish people get asked for ID when seeing a R18+ movie.

Our movie ratings aren't hypersensitive like game ratings though (same system but enforced to different degrees if that makes sense) so it all generally works out fine.

>>83278275
In Straya you won't get denied entry unless it's MA or R (X is nonexistent at kinotoriums). If you look like you could potentially be underage they'll ask for ID and if you are underage you won't be given tickets / allowed in.

They can't enforce it for TV shows, but it does affect when they're legally allowed to air programs.

>>83278260
I thought the Doctor's outfit was particularly bad this episode.

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>>83275897
>Bill's phone isn't compatible with Time Lord tech

Bullshit it isn't.

IT HAS THE MASTER'S DRUMBEAT AS ITS TEXT ALERT

>>83278018
there's some bits scattered around online. I'm hoping Moffat will do his own Writer's Tale style book when he finishes

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-11-23/steven-moffat-finally-reveals-why-john-hurt-replaced-christopher-eccleston-in-the-doctor-who-50th-anniversary-special

http://www.shannonsullivan.com/doctorwho/serials/2013i.html

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purple shirt > red shirt

>>83278367

I hope Big Finish eventually does a "Lost Stories" thing for the 50th idea Moff had if he could only get Jenna. Moff could even write it, he has thought about writing for BF.

>>83276959
And the legal angle also ties into "you function as an agent" terminology.

Question for /who/: Did i miss a line this episode where The Doctor said something about having chosen Nardole's face?

>>83278367
bizarre that there was apparently a possibility, however slim, that Matt Smith wouldn't have appeared in it

imagine if Tennant, Hurt, maybe even Eccles were in it but NOT him

that would be pretty interesting actually, Clara somehow gets drawn into an adventure with Doctors that aren't "hers"

Who here is glad we live in a post-canonKtM world?

>>83278465
Don't think so but there was a line saying "I got your lungs cheap" implying the Doctor assembled his body from various parts.

>>83278465
he said something to the effect of replacing his lungs cheap, implying they were human (and thus susceptible to the viral outbreak)

>>83278481
I'm more glad we live in a post-harness's-last-episode world desu

>>83278481
we've just traded one shit episode for another. At least KtM was self-contained, if next episode turns out GOAT I'm gonna have to sit through this shitfest every time I wanna rewatch the Monks trilogy

>>83278465
I don't recall such a line.

In "The Return of Doctor Mysterio" Nardole accuses the Doctor of "reassembling" him out of loneliness, which doesn't give perfectly with "Extremis" establishing Nardole seeming to just be around post-Husbands, then going after the Doctor.

Moff said in an interview last week he has the story for Nardole getting River's Diary mapped out in his mind, but can't really write it now, since he's leaving the show.

Would be amazing if he ended up writing it up for Big Finish, whether for a Diary of River Song story or a Nardole range, or a 12/Nardole range.

I am a bit befuddled by how Mysterio and Extremis don't really connect together right. 12 and Nardole are happily adventuring in Mysterio, but in S10 Nardole is anti-adventures in place of guarding the Vault. Perhaps 12 and Nardole had adventures like Mysterio, then the Vault fucked up and they realised they needed to stay on it at all times? Not sure.

why didn't The Pilot have a dedication to John Hurt!?

>>83278481
We do?

>>83278524
good q

>>83278314
Well, they aren't speculation because they are manifest. The President of the World stuff is a bit forced to create the symmetry right? Why its the UN but not UNIT really answers itself. Theres lots of stuff here they didn't have to do for any other purposes than the thematic.

We'll see next week of course but honestly, it couldn't look more to me like a parable of the Dodgy Dossier.

>>83278481
I mean, the Doctor might have just forgotten it.

>>83278522
>Moff said in an interview last week he has the story for Nardole getting River's Diary mapped out in his mind, but can't really write it now, since he's leaving the show.
do you have a link to that?

>>83278522
>I am a bit befuddled by how Mysterio and Extremis don't really connect together right. 12 and Nardole are happily adventuring in Mysterio, but in S10 Nardole is anti-adventures in place of guarding the Vault. Perhaps 12 and Nardole had adventures like Mysterio, then the Vault fucked up and they realised they needed to stay on it at all times? Not sure.
There's a very simple answer, and it resolves some other issues like how there could be a literal fucking superhero
mysterio isn't canon

>>83278490
>>83278495
right exactly what i thought. On Whovians one of the pricks on the panel pulled that out of their ass, never mind that it directly contradicts the basic facts about the character. They did the same thing for Smile, when one of them claimed that The Doctor said 'bollocks'. The lady sitting next to him laughed along and agreed. Where the fuck do they get this shit from? More importantly, why does anybody watch this show? It's basically just the same value as reading the fucking youtube comments

>>83275268
He changed his mind

>>83278576
wish I could

>>83278578
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-20/doctor-who-exclusive-steven-moffat-reveals-the-secrets-of-extremis-2

>Mulkern: Confession time. One point in Extremis still puzzles me. Nardole says he’s followed the Doctor from Darillium on the express orders of his late wife River Song – but how has Nardole come by her diary? After River died in the 2008 two-parter Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, David Tennant’s Doctor left her diary behind in the Library.

>Moffat: Short answer: you can always get a book out of a library.

>Slightly longer answer: the Tenth Doctor had no choice but leave it there – it was full of incendiary information about his future. But once that future was lived, he’d have to get it back some time. He couldn’t leave all that confidential stuff lying around in a Vashta Nerada-infested library, could he? So one day Nardole got it for him. (Actually, there’s a whole story in my head about this, but not one I’ll ever get to write now. The last time he sees River – it’s terribly sad.)

>>83278604
I think you're the only one here watching it

protip: stop

>When we were at the 50th [anniversary party] at the BFI, surrounded by the great and the good, Louis clutched my arm and said, “Dad, is that Sylvester McCoy?” “Yes, it is.” “Dad, can I meet him?” “I’m sure I can arrange that.” Later Louis says, “Please, I need to meet him.” So I get a message up to Sylvester asking him to hang around, “My son wants to meet you.” This will make you fall in love with Sylvester as the best Doctor ever.
>I took Louis up and, across the room, Sylvester saw us arriving. He leapt up from a sofa – and he’s not a young man – and he spun his walking cane like the Doctor’s umbrella and said, “Louis, Louis! I’m falling over. Could you just come and help me?” So Louis rushed over and helped Doctor No 7 and he thanked him very much. He’d turned into the seventh Doctor like that [clicks fingers] and I cannot now hear a bad word about his Doctor.

cute

>>83275897
If the doctor can send an email from a simulation, I'm sure he can send a picture to asBill's iphone.

>>83278604
I watched the first few eps for the Rove nostalgia and the stream comfiness, I haven't watched since the Knock Knock one

>>83278524
It wasn't dedicated to him.

>>83276883

You're such a Moffat cum-guzzler.

The monks said that THEY needed to be loved. "We must be loved." Not the fucking Doctor. Shit episode, shit arc, shit series, shit Doctor, shit head writer.

>>83278625
my Dad likes it, I'm just in the room. there's a bunch of anons that ask for it every week. i'm probably being unnecessarily salty about it i just... really hate it

Why don't they just deadlock every lock

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what a shit incongruous episode

>>83278648
I.... can't really argue with that logic

>>83277334
Pure consent according to Pyramid amounts to coercion. Retarded episode, villain, and arc.

>>83278667
we heard you the last several times you illiterate boardie

>>83278657
the airlock wasn't deadlocked

>>83278524
How many people have gotten dedicated episodes? Only one I can remember is Verity Lambert, who was a key part of the show's creation.

>>83278481
Not this guy

https://www.twitter.com/ShearmanRobert/status/868310472268939265

>>83278657
What IS a deadlock?

>>83278690
Liz Sladen got a dedication at the start of Astronaut

>>83278680
maybe that's why they're villains; they have the wrong interpretation of consent. that's the moral

Where the fuck is Simm edition

>>83278692
I'm not inclined to think he cares about which made up stories are less made up than others

>>83278698
magic alien anti-sonic locking system

for when you don't want time lords snooping through your shit

they really should have established that the sunglasses aren't sonic anymore. That would have solved a lot of narrative problems, namely that fucking infuriating cliffhanger. Or just have Bill's phone be flat or something! The bottom line is write another draft of your fucking script

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>>83278680
>>83278708
o

>>83277056
please reinvent it

>>83278686
HAHA MEMES

>>83278719
Every Doctor Who fan cares about what is/isn't canon whether they admit it or not

>>83278746
Moff's mum died so he rushed (co)writing Pyramid resulting in a bit of a dodgy ep. Not as bad as first draft Let's Kill Hitler and Wedding of River Song though.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-17/peter-capaldis-final-line-in-the-latest-doctor-who-was-almost-quite-different

omoshiroi

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>>83278774
>"The Doctor is half human!"

>>83278655
Bill loved the Doctor and she loved or at least was grateful to the monks for saving the Doctor even as she was apprehensive about accepting their deal.

>>83278798
Maybe it's just because I saw the movie when I was very young so it's imprinted as part of the whole Doctor Who experience for me, but I like the whole half-human thing a lot, and was greatly pleased to see it treated seriously in Hell Bent.

>>83278690
Lis Sladen, Barry Letts and Verity Lambert all received 'title card' dedications.

>>83278795
The original take was better.

>>83278708
They are great villains because they haven't really done anything wrong and they haven't done anything you can stop. Daleks zooming around ranting about killing everyone are a piece of piss by comparison. The Monks even handed over the pilots and the submariners unharmed.

Its brilliant actually.

>>83278821
I love that it's this big elephant in the room that has been totally ignored since

>>83278821
>Maybe it's just because I saw the movie when I was very young so it's imprinted as part of the whole Doctor Who experience for me

you're right that's exactly what that is

~Quality Tier~
1. Oxygen
2. Extremis
3. The Pilot
4. Smile

~Thuddingly Mediocre Tier~
5.Thin Ice

~Shite Tier~
6. Knock Knock
7. The Pyramid at the End of the World

fight me irl if you disagree jk, share your own

>>83278882
I can happily defend it from a story perspective too, I'm just perhaps inclined to like it in the first place from positive associations like that.

pretty wild how Moffat's spent so much time with this arc, and the actual meat of the story is Whithouse's script. How does that even happen? Whithouse is cool though, so i'm optimistic

>>83278886

Great tier
1. Extremis
2. The Pilot

Good tier
3. Oxygen
4. Thin ice

Okay tier
5. The Pyramid at the End of the World
6. Knock Knock

Bad tier
7. Smile

>>83278821
>>83278878
I could have sworn Tennant or Matt had a throwaway line about how they were "temporarily" half-human once

>>83278950
Tennant was going to in human nature but didn't in the end, RTD mentioned it in his book I think.

>>83278931
especially since it's a 3-parter. they must really have faith in the story to allow it three episodes

>>83278950
Tennant nearly had a line about "being half human for a bit once" in his finale, but RTD cut it on the grounds that he felt it was unnecessary.

10 also seems to think being human is 'yuck' in the S4 finale.

>>83278950
Some comics worked it as a fob watch thing I believe.

Common misconception: that the Doctor wasn't actually half-human in the movie and was just lying / confused / metaphorical. The Master scans 8s eyes and is surprised to learn he is, i.e. someone other than the Doctor views some actual data and realises it. It's not easily handwaved away just as the Doctor talking shit.

Of course Doctor Who has no canon and it's the easiest, low-stakes thing in the world to just ignore it or headcanon an explanation so he's not half-human, but it's not this tiny detail of the movie or anything, it's looked at quite a bit.

>>83278708
You misunderstand me.

The Monks accept a level of consent from Bill which is in clear contradiction to the "pure" consent that they say they need. That's why it's retarded. They say "WE MUST BE LOVED", but Bill loves the Doctor, not them.The "Pure" consent that they talk about, submission out of love, doesn't happen - it's still effected through coercion, namely, the threat to the Doctor's life.

These are people who have simulated the entirety of Earth's history, who were capable of recreating billions of people down to their exact personalities, thoughts, feelings and actions. Clearly, then, they should understand that one person, in secret, surrendering the planet, means precisely jack-shit if they're trying to preclude the possibility of a slave uprising through consent. If they were capable of accepting Bill's compromised consent, why not just accept the Generals or the U.N secretary's shitty consent instead? Why fuck about so much?

If none of this IS the case, and something else is at work, then that means two entire episodes have been wasted on red herrings that have gone absolutely nowhere. We're no closer to understanding (or caring about) the Monks or their plan.

Everything that everybody does in the episode is retarded. For some unfathomable reason, a guy working with highly dangerous strains of bacteria - a professional trained in safety protocol - takes off his helmet because he feels a bit sicky and then grabs a handful of an incredibly deadly pathogen and rushes it out of an airlock, thereby exposing himself to the bacteria and contaminating an entire lab. A dwarf blocks an unlocked door with her bag, despite having no intention of going back into the house, for reasons beyond human comprehension. Maybe they'll reveal it's a dwarven thing! But most likely, Doctor Who is just irredeemably retarded now.

>>83278974
Budget saving by re-using the Monks. Probably also saved them trying to cobble together 2 more stories, by just padding 1 out to stretch across 3 weeks.

MONK: WE'VE RUN EVERY POSSIBLE SIMULATION AND YOU KNOW WHAT WE DISCOVERED, DOCTOR?

DOCTOR: NO, WHAT!

MONK: THE WHITE RACE DIES ALL HAIL THE BIG BLACK COCK MASTER RACE!

MONK: IT'S WHITEY GENOCIDE TIME!

BILL: HELL YES. DEATH TO THE NAZIS!

MICKEY: DID SOMEONE SAY FUCK WHITE PEOPLE?

*NARDOLE INSTANTLY GETS ON HIS KNEES AND IS TAKING MICKEY'S COCK OUT TO PLEASURE THE BIG BULL*

>>83278876
It's not brilliant really, because it relies on such an accumulation of contrivances and coincidences that the world depicted in Doctor Who bears even less resemblance to reality than the simulation in the previous episode.

>>83278974
>having faith in doctor who

Always a mistake

>>83278886

Great tier

The Pilot
Thin Ice

Good Tier

-----

Ok tier

Oxygen


Waste of potential tier

Smile
Extremis

Waste of time and relative dimensions in space tier

Pyramid

>>83278886

~Quality Tier~
1. The Pilot
2. Oxygen

~Thuddingly Mediocre Tier~
3. Knock Knock
4. Thin Ice

~Shite Tier~
5. Extremis
6. Smile
7. The Pyramid at the End of the World

>>83278931
I am not a fan of Toby Whithouse (I hate how he shoehorns his same ideas into absolutely everything he writes, regardless of whether they in any way fit or not) and was very happy to see he didn't get the showrunner job, but from everything we know about The Lie of the Land, it plays to all of his strengths. I think it will be a fantastic episode. Moffat would be confident in him because he's a showrunner in his own right (Harness is to an extent too, but much more junior, and Moff has a different sort of relationship with him compared to Whithouse).

>>83279043

So fucking shit I'd successfully repressed the memory tier

Knock Knock

>>83278993

oh fuck offerino.

The generals didn't really want their help, they were acting out of fear. Bill really wanted them to save the Doctor. End of story. The rest is your retarded headcanon.

>>83279056
>Moff has a different sort of relationship with him

Sounds hot

>>83278931
>>83279106
I forgot to add, I wouldn't be surprised if Moff did have quite a hand in the ep's script, but remember pre S8 (and that unfortunate business with that Sherlock writer guy) he didn't insist on the co-written by Steven Moffat credit for eps he had a heavy hand in, especially on ones by actual showrunners like Whithouse. RTD was the same pre 2009 specials.

>>83279094
Are you actually fucking suggesting they didn't want to stop everyone on the planet dying, they just asked for a laugh?

>>83275216
The Monks kinda remind me of The Silence

>>83279141
The intentionally-out-of-sync-voices-with-mouths thing for sure reminded me of them. I like it desu.

>>83278993
I am really hoping the "WE MUST BE LOVED" stipulation has a thorough jutification next episode, otherwise it really is just a terribly executed premise.

I feel that the wording hurts it. If they had said "WE REQUIRE LOVE" then that would allow the possibility for consent out of love for anyone, not specifically the Monks. Making Bill's consent acceptable.

>>83279094
The generals were acting out of strategy, not fear
only the UN guy did it out of fear

Any streamchads around, have there been many more Blindwave vids? Last one I saw was the Slitheen ones.

>>83279141
The S6 finale also had a pyramid

>>83279094

You're retarded.

Bill's consent is still not pure by their standards. She doesn't want THEM to save the Doctor, she doesn't love them or trust them, she just wants the Doctor to be saved, and she believes that only they can do it. It's not love. It's not consent. It's coerced submission - and even then, she's not consenting to being ruled. Consent is informed - she has no idea what they're going to do. Being conquered is a clause inserted into the "being saved" contract. Sign here with love to be saved (PS terms and conditions apply).

So assuming they don't actually need pure consent, why not just accept submission through fear - i.e, the Generals? The Generals want to live to fight another day, and Bill actually says "you better get me my planet back". So her submission is just as much strategy as love.

As for "retarded headcanon" - are you saying that in the Doctor Who universe, you can work with life-on-earth-ending chemicals without being qualified or trained? Without being aware of or needing to conform to stringent security protocols? Because if that's the case, then as I said, it's Doctor Who that's retarded. "Reality" isn't a headcanon, shit-for-brains.

So, please - kindly fuck offerino yourself, friend.

>>83279181
Dalek is done and posted for everyone. The Long Game is currently Patrons-only.

>>83279203
which also had nothing to do with ancient Egypt, it was just an alien hideout

>>83279023
It really doesn't. The lab stuff isn't very well done but its not especially relevant, I mean this is why it isn't very well done, they didn't care so much, its a McGuffin of sorts.

I just think you're missing the point. There haven't been any red herrings.

>>83279203
Is the S6 finale anyone else's legit least favourite episode of NewWho? I know there are "worse" eps like Fear Her, but those aren't big arc eps, let alone series finales. I fucking hate TWORS, it's everything I hate about NewWho and Moffat in particular.

I tell you, if you'd told me back in the late-Matt-Smith days Moff would end up writing my favourite Doctor and series, I'd have said you're dreaming mate.

>>83279162
I've kind of given up on hope. Extremis was slightly redeemed by the "virtue" speech, but still let-down by what was really just a cold-open made into a 50 minute episode with really bad science.

>>83279236
Anyone interested? I have access.

>>83278993
>For some unfathomable reason, a guy working with highly dangerous strains of bacteria - a professional trained in safety protocol - takes off his helmet because he feels a bit sicky and then grabs a handful of an incredibly deadly pathogen and rushes it out of an airlock
It doesn't make his actions less retarded but it was pretty clearly shown he had a massive hangover, putting him in a diminished state of mind. So I don't have a problem with him acting that way. What I do have a problem with is his dwarf workmate not having the professionalism to have a problem with it

>>83279234
"Hearts and minds". It happens in what is clearly supposed to be Afghanistan. Come on. We can differ on how successful it was but surely you can see what they are trying to do?

>>83279285
>really bad science
The flaws of Extremis are "why don't they have a smarter random number generator" and "why does it allow contact with the outside world"
that's basically it

>>83279287
im watching the Dalek one atm but I'd be keen after

>>83279243

I agree, there haven't been any red herrings - which means it's shit.

When the world is brought to the brink of destruction because two apparently lobotomised lab workers developed plot-dictated insanity and act in ways no rational or even moderately intelligent human being would, and this total stupidity is echoed by the generals, and the Secretary General of the UN, and even the Doctor himself - when literally not one single element of the plot makes any kind of sense or is even, at the last, internally consistent, why care about any of it?

>>83279234
>you can work with life-on-earth-ending chemicals without being qualified or trained

he was qualified, he just didn't give a fuck because he had hangover. This kind of shit happens all the time - Chernobyl disaster for example.

>>83279181
what is a blindwave?

>>83279341
It's also boring, unoriginal and basically inconsequential.

This has been a great thread btw, loads of great insight in the discussion about the episode, love the different readings of it. Great to see onseason threads this good.

>>83279393
Just one of those youtube react groups, we've watched some of their stuff in the stream because it's amusing/endearing to see people react to Series 1 "blind"

>>83279252
>Is the S6 finale anyone else's legit least favourite episode of NewWho?
Yep. It's because everyone's expectations went through the roof after S5/opening of S6. Remember the speculation about the mysterious voice in the Tardis chanting SILENCE WILL FALL, the meaning of said phrase, and the multiple hints as to The Silence's presence during certain scenes of S5? We all though Moffat was building this huge epic story arc like nothing nuWho had seen yet, a change from the RTD format. With a fresh, original enemy that spanned multiple seasons. And, well, maybe in Moffat's mind the resolution was amazing but in reality the series just got worse and worse, resulting in that wet fart of an ending. I still remember the mental gymnastics I engaged in during episodes like Night Terrors and Closing Time, telling myself that it's alright... it'll all come together, this will all have a satisfying payoff.

Ironic, or perhaps fateful, that TWORS is an anagram of worst.

>>83279408
>boring
t. "less talking more running from monsters" pleb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo1N6UUhulY

>>83279297

The fact that she didn't have a problem with it suggests to me that we weren't supposed to believe that he was doing it because he was hungover. I think the hungover thing was just to provide the justification for taking off the helmet, when at least the bacteria was still sealed off. But, if I'm honest, I don't think "I have a headache" is really a valid excuse for someone to doom the entire planet.

Are the monks an allegory for Muslims?

>>83279393
Reaction channel. One of the less cancerous ones I've seen, when they're not talking over/ignoring what they're watching for the sake of unfunny/slapstick humor.

>>83279391
Chernobyl happened because the reactor was shit

>>83279341
>"why does it allow contact with the outside world"
I'd assumed this was so the Monks can access and monitor the simulation

>>83279391

"Boy, my head hurts today, guess it doesn't matter if all life on earth ends."

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>>83279416
P-People pay to watch other people watch Doctor Who?

>This has been a great thread btw
Agreed It's a nice change

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>>83277241
ep1
>look at me! I'm a black lesbian! we are so progressive!

ep2
>Indians can into space too! (but cant poo in loo)

ep3
>there were people of all colors in 1800's london, the history books tell lies ;)

ep4
>our circle of friends contain one(1) person from every major culture, no more, no less.

ep5
>did you just ask be about my blue skin? thats racist!

ep6
>Vatican had a female pope in the past, I swear ;)

ep7
>midget woman scientist..
>midget

>>83279459
>I don't think "I have a headache" is really a valid excuse for someone to doom the entire planet.

He didn't know his actions would literally result in the extinction of all life on earth. He was still being retarded, but I don't think you could reasonably expect him to forsee such a large scale disaster

>>83279466
No, fuck off
It's the jews

>>83279430
I didn't actually watch S5 or S6 as they aired (not because of a Matt thing, I tapped out in S4 of all things, was pretty young and just not super into Doctor Who those days - maybe Last of the Time Lords just defeated me), but what you say makes a lot of sense.

I actually really, really like The Time of the Doctor and the way it dealt with the Silence arc, but it was fucking terribly handled in S6, and S7 ignoring it was absolutely bizarre. I love Matt but his era was such a mess.

>>83279468
I love how they actually take notes and take it seriously, it really is endearing. I have mates into the show (including one who's as into it you can be without getting to stuff like BF) but I didn't introduce them to it or anything, it's fun to see people see it all new.

I do have an ex I introduced to the show who had some pretty weird fucking reactions to it. Loved Eccleston's series but fucking hated Tennant and his series to a weird degree. She liked Matt well enough (we only watched S5 together before we stopped and eventually broke up) but just seemed very cooled on it after Tennant, I think it broke her. She'd have liked S8 a lot but what can you do.

/ end blog

>>83279510
Actually has convinced me to hang around here more again t bh

>>83279510
>P-People pay to watch other people watch Doctor Who?
Yep. It all goes up for free a week later, though, so most people don't. It can be fun seeing new people experiencing this stuff.

>>83279528
The midget scientist was hilarious, I couldn't take any scene with her in seriously

>>83279528
>Vatican had a female pope in the past, I swear ;)

That was based on an actual myth

>>83279580
So was people of all colors in 1800s london

>>83279550
>I didn't actually watch S5 or S6 as they aired
So did you marathon them? If so, at what point in S6 did you think "this is all going to shit"?

There was a hiatus between Good Man Goes to War and Let's Kill Hitler, which only served to build up more hype. In my mind that is basically the quality divide between the good half and the shit half of S6, but I may be misremembering a bit.

>>83279580
MYTH NIGGA! MYTH!

>>83279528
don't forget that one student's onn sequitur about his grandad and boyfriend's trip to the Great Wall in Knock Knock

>>83279550
>Loved Eccleston's series but fucking hated Tennant and his series to a weird degree
That is definitely weird. I mean, I like Eccleston more than Tennant too, but I've never heard of someone reacting so negatively to him right off the bat. Most people I know who dislike him do so because of the Timelord Victorious/"I Don't Wanna Go" stuff or because they're contrarian hipsters and liking him is the popular option.

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>>83279555
I am absolutely miffed by this

>>83279550
Roomie is going to watch it for the first time this week with me, so I guess I get to witness this for free in person

>>83279580
>myth

The real Benedict IX was an absolute madman though

>>83279614
I remember coming back after the hiatus, to Hitler, and thinking: well, this has gone to absolute shite. Then TWORS was 100x worse.

>>83279619
Because Doctor Who has never before revealed historical myths and legends to be based on fact

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>Oh no, not me, I never lost control

>>83279341

That's a pretty huge flaw though, when that was the entire basis for the plot itself - the mystery of the Veritas. You're kind of bound to deliver a satisfying answer to the question by the conventions of the mystery genre, and the answer itself was so monumentally stupid it really crippled the episode.

"Computers are bad at random numbers! They can only generate one random string...ever!" And yet, modern MMOs are constantly generating multiple strings of random numbers for thousands of players.

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>>83279676

>>83278801
Sounds like coercion to me. "Help! Save my friend!" "Only if you give me my outrageous demands!"

And the Doctor saying "Love is Slavery?" WTF is that shit?

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>You're face to face with the Bill who sold the world

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>>83279703
>is that based bright anon?

bright anon do this pls

>>83279694
And then Extremis literally ends with: "I'll do what all computers do - email!"

Yeah no now you're confusing a computer with the internet.

>>83279601
Honestly, I just wished someone had gone on off about filthy lascars and then people could have looked it up.

The Merchant Shipping Act was passed in 1823 to stop them from dumping foreign crews made up of "people of all colours" onto the river where the story is set.

Perhaps they just imagined the problem for politically correct reasons.

>>83279673
you know they only did that to get sjw brownie points right?

>>83279719
he's talking about how in The Wedding of River Song that River Song was so in love with The Doctor she forced him to marry her or else she'd bring all of time to an end

>>83279640
reminder that the grandad was supposed to be Harry Sullivan but the line was cut

How can you truly consent if you don't know what you're consenting to, and if you're only consenting after coercion?

>>83279703
that's one hell of a gazely stare

>>83279744
yes, but it's at least based in myth is my point. it's not as egregious as, for example, going back in time and "find out" Einstein was a girl

>>83279614
not him, but I also marathoned S5 and S6. I was so enthralled by 11's character and S5 that I was blinded to how terrible S6 was. Even now I still really like it, but I can objectively see how terrible it is

>>83279614
Yup, I came back on board actually the day Name of the Doctor aired, the John Hurt thing was a big enough wtf to finally kickstart me back into watching (I was always going to get back to the show, I was a big fan as a literal small child, I just hadn't got around to it for years).

So I binged s4, specials, s5, s6, s7 at that point.

The beginning of s6 was great, I was very into the opening 2-parter.

Curse of the Black Spot was a terrible episode, but more from being dull than anything else, so I just kind of went "eughr, okay, let's move on".

Then the Doctor's Wife was kino so I was back on board.

Then the flesh 2-parter was super dull again so I was back offboard but just figured the arc episodes would be great.

Then came A Good Man Goes To War, which I still really dislike. I don't get the hype with this episode, but it wasn't a "bad" episode, just something I didn't personally like.

Let's Kill Hitler was terrible. Then Night Terrors was terrible. I'd lost hope for the series at this point. Then I loved The Girl Who Waited so I was just very confused and overwhelmed by the series. I LOVE the God Complex, and really really like Closing Time, so I was back on board. Then came TWORS and I'd just fucking had enough.

It's a maddeningly inconsistent series and funnily enough the "filler" eps turned out to be better than the arc ones, generally.

>>83279653
Yeah I still don't really get why she reacted like that, it was weird. She really hated his "quirks".

>>83279654
Do tell us how it goes!

>>83279676
I never even thought of a Venom-esque twist for the "evil" Capaldi in Lie of the Land, because of the regeneration shot, but that could be kino.

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>>83279741

MCGANN AND THE TIME WAR SERIES 1, 2, 3 AND 4 CONFIRMED BY BIG FINISH

https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/the-big-finish-sunday-digest

>>83279694
The mystery of the Veritas is what people learn that makes them an hero, how they confirm it is much less important. And really, it's not an unsatisfactory explanation except by the standard of "muh realism."

>>83279795
It being less retardedly than something else you can think of doesn't make it less retarded generally. It would be an ok reference if not for the fact that it probably isn't a reference to the myth at all. If it as they'd have called her by name, and probably not have made her black. Plus they are just constantly doing this further driving in that this is just what they do and not a historical joke.

>>83279795
At the very least they could have referred to her as Pope Joan rather than gender bending an actual Pope

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>>83279812
Love you <3

>>83279802
I have a sneaking suspicion that they're going to be a RTD era fan, because they know nothing about the show except some of the more memetic things that they've run into (fish fingers and custard, don't blink) and according to them; "I don't know much about it at all, but I think I'm going to like Tennant". Wew.

>>83279829
They'd said as much a few podcasts a go but good to get confirmation. Hopefully they won't turn out like the War Doctor sets...

>>83279919
The trailer is just... noise

>>83279933
Yeah :/ The BF trailers in general are pretty crap but that was particularly crap

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>>83279906
I had a higher res one already saved, have this

>>83279876
>>83279884
I concede to that. I guess i just don't have as much of a problem with them pushing an agenda if there's rhyme or reason behind it. Like the comment in Thin Ice about how Jesus wasn't white, sure it suits their agenda but it's also true, it challenges misconceptions. Claiming 18th century London was full of black people of various status is not

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>>83279967
This is the friendliest thread, bless you anon

>>83279774
The monks say something like "you must know that you will be ours completely," so that's what she's consenting to. The real question is how can you can consent on behalf of an entire species, most of whom you don't represent in any way. And the answer is because the monks have this really specific and alien code of honor/rules that doesn't quite fit with our notion of consent.