Razor edition Last time: >>83005353

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DON'T BRING ME DOOWWWNNN
BRUCE

And I fucked it up

Would you make an oath to protect your best friend for 1000 years?

>>83009193
My best friend and I parted ways 9 years ago because he refused to quit on drugs. I recently learned he died of an overdose 2 years ago.

>>83009193
No, but then I don't have an expected lifespan of thousands of years like the Doctor, I've only got a few decades. And I'd make an oath to protect my best friend for a few years.

>i'm going to protect a village... for 1000 years
>dramatic music
>i'm going to kick a wall for... 4 billion years
>dramatic music
>i'm going to defend a friend... for thousand years
>dramatic music

come on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puU-M3CDpEQ

More samey "I'm le Doctor I will stuhp u!!" dialogue.

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When shit hit the fan, is you still a fan?

>>83009285
It's better in this case because we know for a fact he's weakened and they are probably going to BTFO him.

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>>83009143
>putting the subject in the name field
This isn't searchable in the catalog.

>>83009143
see >>83009331
This is shit, please delete and try again.

>>83009143
p.s. we weren't even at bump limit.

>>83009285
The point of the scene is the monk's response.

I did say I fucked up literally two posts in

>>83009143
Stupid OP fucked up.

>>83009193
>moffat literally copied his own plot

>>83009285
I assume what's going to happen is that the Monks manipulate all the major world powers on Earth into some kind of nuclear standoff, and then make themselves out to be the heroes saving everybody (i.e. we literally beg them to help us.

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first for shitty posters

>>83009402
You don't absolve yourself of fucking up the new thread, matey, that's our job.

>2.3 million overnight viewers

Wow.

>>83009450
Oh fuck off virgin

>>83009464
it's 4.16 overnight viewers though

>>83009464
source?

I watch the movie Dalek from the 60s, I wanted to know Peter Cushing's cannon's TV show, and there was the overall fit with Canon.

Is this from a TV program that is completely independent or has some sort of match?

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>doctor promises that amy and rory will be fine
>they get sent back in time permanently next episode
>brian never sees them again
>doctor never tells him anything

>>83009464
>Extremis 4.16m
I didn't actually believe you but I was worried for a second.
Slight increase from Oxygen.

Honestly I cant wait for Moffat to leave
I really WANT him go now. I didn't hate Extremis, I just didn't care enough.

>>83009517
The Peter Cushing films are an alternative interpretation of Doctor Who that aren't officially recognised as part of the same universe.

>>83009520
There's a video somewhere of a deleted scene or some extra where it shows Amy and Rory's son grown up delivering a letter to him in the present to explain what happened, sorta like in Blink.

>>83009520
>Doctor never tells him anything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWU6XL9xI4k

>>83009517
The TV show came first. The two movies are direct adaptations of two of the early serials, and are usually not considered "canon" by most fans.

However, Doctor Who doesn't really have a canon, its continuity is full of contradictions, and the format allows for all kinds of crazy stuff to happen. So there are a few people—including Peter Cushing himself—who find ways to accept them as part of the same story. And more power to them.

>>83009587
>>83009588
But that's not from the Doctor, so he's not wrong.

>>83009588
>>83009587
It's not Doctor telling him anything though

>>83009542
>>83009606

Yes, I think it's true, but would like to know how to integrate them together to prevent the expansion of the universe from being something.

What Cushing say?

>>83009588
I forgot this wasn't the Doctor.
still though

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I found the prettiest Monk!

>>83009630
>What Cushing say?

>Well I’ll tell you something I thought once. I just said I didn’t watch TV, but one of the few episodes of the ‘Dr. Who’ series that I saw was one that involved a kind of mystical clown, and I realised that perhaps he kidnapped Dr Who and wiped his memory and made him relive some of his earlier adventures. When Bill Hartnell turned into Patrick Troughton, and changed his appearance, that idea seemed more likely. I think that’s what happened, so I think those films we did fit perfectly well into the TV series. That would not have been the case had I taken the role in the TV series.

>>83009681

Thank.

I just caught up with the latest episode and lost that reaction. What is the general consensus?

I really can not appreciate Joe's graduation addition to its original intro. Is she in the vault Almost now ok?

On the whole is not so bad, but there is little meaningless to run around. CGI numbers are terribly disappearing.

All 500 of us?

>>83009831
No sir.

All 507.

>>83009754
>I really can not appreciate Joe's graduation addition to its original intro.
what

>>83009630
Some of the other ways to integrate them:

>The Cushing character is the First Doctor from an alternate universe. This answer made it into a short story, and a recent comic strip, so it's as close to "canonical" as you're going to get.

>The Cushing movies are movies in-universe, based on stories by Barbara Wright, one of the companions who lived through the "real" versions. This one almost made it into the TV show during the 50th anniversary, but was cut because of rights issues for the posters.

>The Cushing character is a creation of the Land of Fiction (from the TV story The Mind Robber), based on the Doctor. This one was popular with some 80s fan-fiction writers who later became professional writers for the franchise, but none of them ever put it into their official stories.

>The Cushing movies are a dream that a later Doctor had while recovering his memories after amnesia. This one almost made it into a comic story, but it was canceled because another writer used a similar idea to explain the 1960s comic strips.

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>>83009740
It's not, my dude.

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>>83009740
No it isn't

>>>/tv/doctor
>>>/tv/dr
>>>/tv/who

>>83009842
didn't the radio times series 10 guide have an image of the doctor and bill next to the number 507?

>>83009884
maybe it's a 4chanX thing

>American Amazon gets new episodes in crystal clear 1080p
>BBC iPlayer only gets 720p with low bitrate and horrible colour banding

What's going on?

>>83009434
My best guess is that the monks will make it impossible for any human being to lie, and the humans decide that this is for the best. Probably wrong, but it sounds like something I'd wanna see.

>>83009998
iPlayer is free and being raped by foreign VPNs constantly

>>83009998
Amazon pays a record-breaking amount, which is BBC Studios' only financial success so far (even though it happened before the BBC Studios spinoff).

BBC iPlayer gets the episodes for free, as a condition of BBC Studio getting a piece of the licence fee. They get no money for additional views, and actually lose money for every viewer who's using a VPN or proxy.

>>83009285
I wonder if it is in any way related to the simulations.

>>83010026
That would just be Trenzalore though.

>>83009253
>I'm going to guard my girlfriend who is perfectly safe in a safe
>For TWO thousand years
>Dramatic music

>>83010127
It's not a matter of what browser you're using m8, >>83009970 is probably right.

>>83010127
I wonder if just maybe that's a 4cuckX feature.
4cuckX being the extension that not everyone uses.

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why does this make me kek so heartily

Post top 10 Capaldos so far
10. Under the Lake/Before the Flood
9. Listen
8. The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion
7. The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar
6. Extremis
5. The Husbands of River Song
4. Oxygen
3. Mummy on the Orient Express
2. Flatline
1. Heaven Sent

>>83009740
What are they doing to based Chris?

>>83010150
Yeah, but interesting

>>83010216
What story is this from?

>>83010264
Belle x Eccleston. New ship

Other chronological anon here

Watching Timelash

What the fuck

>>83010264
What the hell has happened to The Leftovers?

>>83010264
Threadwatcher and auto/top filters are all I need to get me through.

>>83010259
Night Terrors

>>83010306
>What the fuck
Yeah, pretty much.

I actually had a question about that story, but didn't want to rewatch it to find the answer. Maybe you can tell me.

There's a line where they're surprised that the Doctor only has one companion this time. When they show the locket and stuff, is there anything that implies that 3 was traveling with someone else along with Jo? Or is that line just something Saward forgot to edit out when he changed it from 1/Barbara/Ian/Vicki to 3/Jo at the last second?

>>83010259
the peg peppol one

>>83010264
>to make things easier here
This. Hidding all the tripsfags

>>83010316
From what I've seen/heard it looks really really fucking different to season 1, which I kind of enjoyed but it was a bit dry in places.

Is it really ending after only 3 seasons?

>>83010368
I was wondering that as I watched it. Yeah, the Doctor mentions he's "travelling lightly" this time, even though he only had one companion with him in his first visit. Must be a mistake, there's no explanation as far a step I can see.

>>83010408
taking my trip off to said -> fuck offeriones

>>83010408
You don't need 4chan X for that.
>tfw anon won't see this post

>>83010419
Meant for
>>83010332

>>83010448
*As far as I can see

Bloody autocorrect

Reminder that 10 days till DWM with previews of 8, 9, 10 and 11

>>83010074
The 'BBC account' logon thing is an obvious precursor to the iPlayer requiring a license fee code.

Should have happened years ago.

>>83010448
Normally I hate people who bring up all the stupid little things a story gets wrong like this, but with Timelash, pretty much all I remember is all the stupid stuff it gets wrong, and that the novelisation tries to fix everything it gets wrong but doesn't actually fix anything.

Power Rankings

The Pilot
-----power gap------
Extremis
Oxygen
Knock Knock
Thin Ice
Smile

Lads, lads, lads

Where is the best place to watch classic /who/?

I want to jump on from either Spearhead from Space or Robots.

>>83010674
Dailymotion is ok but some of the episodes aren't on there. Vast bits of late Tom aren't there, but there's a lot of Pertwee on there. Try the stream every now and then, but they don't do chronological stories and randomly pick stories to watch.

>>83010674
1) community on vk.com called Doctor Who the classic series
2) there is a google drive archive with every episode ever

>>83010674
>not starting at the beginning
top pleb
https://archive.is/7eSsd

>>83010530
They couldn't do that until last year because they accidentally wrote contradictory laws about how the licence fee applies to streaming.

But at this point, it won't help anything. All it'll do is make even more people download or stream the shows from a pirate site instead of from iPlayer.

Also, who has any incentive to make it improve, or any financial leverage even if they had that incentive?

>>83010221
1. Heaven Sent
2. Listen
3. The Zyggity Shiggity Doo Dah
4. Mummy on the Orient Express
5. Extremis
6. The Alchemist's Pupils
7. Dark Water
8. Oxygen
9. The Husbands of River Song
10. Last Christmas

>>83010306
>>83010368
Timelash, for all its problems, is a nice paean to Arthur Conan Doyle. Or it would have been, if the writer didn't confuse Doyle and H.G. Wells.

THE FUCK?!

What was that ending to Timelash?! How the fuck did he survive?

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>>83011523
timelash is fun, delet this

>>83011523
You mean how Megelen shows up in the council after we saw him killed? Doesn't he explain something like "Ha ha, I faked my death, that was a clone of mine that you killed"? It's been a while since I saw it.

>>83010221
1. Heaven Sent
2. Listen
3. Dark Water
4. Extremis
5. The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar
6. Mummy on the Orient Express
7. Deep Breath
8. Death in Heaven
9. The Husbands of River Song
10. Into the Dalek

>>83011722
Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant the Doctor (and Herbert), they were last seen in the TARDIS as a missile collided with it. Then it turns out they survived and all the Doctor says is "I'll explain one day"

Can someone spy on this thread and tell me what is currently happening in it, as I don't wish to wade in myself
>>82995593

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If I ever became DW showrunner I would bring back the based Krillitane.

>>83012224
Why are you curious? Even if this weren't 4chan, is there any conversation that could start from that post besides 10 /pol/tards and 3 SJWs, or vice-versa, yelling at each other about stuff that isn't even in the episode?

Is Capaldi the patrician's Doctor?

>>83010169
Rory was such an idiot

>>83012534
The most patrician Doctor is David Tennant because most contrarians hate him, meaning he's actually the greatest.

>>83012623
This desu. He also got to display the most emotional range of any Who actor.

Would you say that Extremis is part one of a three part story?

>>83010306

The anagram, Lameshit, is much more appropriate.

>>83012750
Yes?

In the finale there's a sequence in which John Simm's Master experiences something similar to The Doctor in Heaven Sent, as part of his punishment from the Time Lords.

>>83012896

Stop posting fake spoilers unless you can back them up.

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>>83012680
Yes he got to play everything from "I'm so happy I'm gnashing my teeth" to "I'm so angry I'm gnashing my teeth"
And on very rare occasions he even got to pull out the "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry"

>>83012750
We haven't seen the next two episodes yet, so all we really know is that Steven Moffat and everyone else involved has said it's part one of a three-part story. Based on that information, the best guess it that it's part one of a three-part story.

>>83010221
I still can't believe an episode called The Husbands of River Song turned out to be so good.

That "Hello Sweetie" is the most touching scene in the whole of NuWho.

>Bitter experience has taught us that stories set in dreamland, fairyland, limbo or any other metaphysical setting simply don't grab our audience, because the 'It's only a sort of a dream' makes them lose interest. Everything must be physically real, a real planet with real dangers and monsters...

Terrence Dicks, 1972.

>>83012980
gr8 b8 m8

>>83010674
You should start with Hartnell and at least see how far you can get, then watch at the very least The Tenth Planet and some of the remaining/cartoon Troughton serials before you go onto Spearhead.

>>83013023
This so hard.

We already had a "nobody really died" episode, now we've got another one. And it comes with a "this character is protecting from dying" side-plot to boot.

So Extremis turned out to be The Da Vinci Code + Roko's Basilisk

Pretty good though tbqh

>>83013747
>Roko's Basilisk
wasted opportunity

Cunts going mental on the Gallifreybase Extremis ratings thread and no Jon Blum in sight.

>>83013024
? Do you not remember it?

>>83013747
Not really, read more books.

It was Descartes' Meditations + Name of the Rose.

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>>83013906
I think we know where he is.

>>83013023
The fact that Moffat made it work anyway is impressive. It can be done, the terrifying fleetingness of knowing you are in a dream is powerful when used right, look at Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

>>83012980
I unironically agree
it was a weird comedy for the majority of it but it ended up being a really sweet episode

>>83013747
I didn't get anything specifically Da Vinci Code out of it. It's got sort of all the stuff Dan Brown stole from Umberto Eco, without all the stuff he stole from Henry Lincoln, and without all the stupid he added on his own, but at that point why not just say it's borrowing from Eco instead of Brown?

And as for Roko's Basilisk, I don't see any connection there, besides the Basilisk being a pretty recent example of the ancient idea of banned knowledge. The idea itself isn't relevant, the Veritas didn't become famous because it was banned, etc.

But maybe I'm missing something on either of those? Any suggestions you have for stuff to think about before I rewatch it are welcome.

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FORGIVE ISIS NOW

>>83014109
My flatmate loves Agents of SHIELD, and every time she torrents and binges a month of it, I end up hearing most of it. Their recent plotline is "We're all stuck in a dreamworld run by evil people". How that show manages to always predict what some other show is going to do 20x better in a couple weeks, I have no idea. But anyway, unless the three-parter ends with Ghost Rider blowing up the computers or whatever, this time it's Doctor Who that did their idea 20x better.

>>83013023
It doesn't work on itself, but it works as part of greater plot.

If it's plot on itself, you are just wasting our time. If it's just a prologue or interlude, it can be quite powerful.

>>83010221
>2. Flatline
Delete

>>83014420
>Extremis is better than Framework arc

I'm hearing from buddies in the know that Empress of Mars is actually a decent episode.

They also told me that John Simm shows up in Episode 10.

>>83009193
What is the point of protecting Missy if the people who were threatening her were shitting their pants because of you the last time you saw them ?

threadly reminder that the monks are armourless mondasian cybermen

>>83014517
I'm hearing from buddies in the know that fuck you I don't even bother myself by making a joke on you

>>83009193
My best friend would not be murderous bitch that should be killed for good.

>>83014424
I think it can work on its own, just not very often.

There's two compelling ways to get dramatic stakes out of a dream world—either you can't get out, or you can die for real in the dream. And there's a handful of ways to subvert each of them, like the one Moffat used this week. And that's it.

So you can do one of those stories every few years, but any more than that and you're just going to be trying to add pointless twists or reskins to the same idea and end up tediously repeating yourself.

>>83014488
Yes, that's the point of saying "this time it's Doctor Who that did their idea 20x better".

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>>83012928


And joy, and sadness, and hubris, and despair, and fear, and enthusiasm, and smarm.

You're better than this anon.

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I'M A COUNTRY GIRL
I AIN'T SEEN A LOT
BUT YOU CAME ALONG
AND MY HEART WENT POP

>>83014786
go away, edge

>>83014109

He didn't make it work for me and a lot of other anons, so it's not really impressive. Maybe if it was attracting universal adoration as opposed to tentative approval or resignation and disappointment.

https://cytu be/r/casualwhostream

Time of Angels / Flesh and Stone
On casualwhostream in 10-15 mins
Get in

>>83014919
It attracted adoration from a lot of people, just not you apparently.

>>83014919
Looking through the archives, there's two batches of S10 rankings after the casuals left, and every single post has Extremis either in first or tied for first. The professional reviews are almost all highly positive, although there's at least one outlier.

It's fine if you don't like it, but don't try to pretend that you're in the majority here.

>>83014958
GET IN GET IN GET IN

CASUAL

WHO

STREAM


NOW!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puU-M3CDpEQ

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CORR-ECT!

WE ARE STARTING TIME OF ANGELS SOON-ISH GET IN

>>83015419
WE STARTED TIME OF ANGELS CASUALWHOSTREAM

>>83014424
It should have been just a prologue or interlude though, not a 45-50 minute episode in its own right. Even though we're told in the blerb for the episode that a new translation of the veritas is online and millions of people have read it, it turns out to not actually matter because the people in jeopardy are video game NPC's, so it's devoid of any material importance.

What is the sum total of the value of the episode's story to the Doctor? He learns that the Earth is getting invaded, again. That pay-off doesn't justify a 45 minute pseudo-mystery which doesn't really make sense anyway.

The aliens' hyper-advanced simulation, a holographic projection able to recreate the thoughts, feelings and memories of billions of people, as well as recreate a photorealistic facsimile of the real world and its physics, can't simultaneously operate two RNG strings at one time - something that every single modern video game can actually do already. Not only that, but according to the Shadow Test, they are the same numbers every single time - or they must have to be, in order to be written into the Veritas.

I don't really get Moffat's obsession with Shyamalan style twists. It's like he's completely fixated with trying to prove that he's cleverer than the audience, and a lot of critics seem to go along with this, Emperor's New Clothes style. They end up fawning and salivating over the "fiendish", "devious" and "ingenuous" twists and turns, but most of his stunning climaxes are only stunning in as much as they are completely unconvincing and totally underwhelming. I'm starting to think that the reason he avoids linear narratives isn't because he's original and daring and innovative, but because without the non-linear convolutions that have become his trademark, his plots would be utterly pedestrian and tedious. The mystery is essential in disguising the vacuousness of the concept.

>>83016014
I agree.

>>83015103

I didn't say majority, but I wouldn't say it's a minority. Live /who/ hated it. Also, you can't dismiss everybody you disagree with as a "casual" and everybody that agrees with you as somebody who is conveniently "a real fan". Once you include the "casuals", how do the results skew then?

>>83016014
It sounds like you are the one far too preoccupied with trying to feel smarter than the writer. Moffat's scripts are just meant to be entertaining, nothing more, and most people find them so, if you look at the massive success of Sherlock and his Doctor Who.

I understand criticising his self indulgent crap like the last season of Sherlock or some of the River Song stuff, but this was great television. It's not trying to be overly clever, no matter how insecure you feel about that sort of writing. This was an example of Moffat taking a simple, famous thought experiment and making 45 minutes of drama out of it.

>>83016014
Agreed

I like the Monks but their mouth moving along with what seems to be telepathic speech is retarded looking, it makes them look like they're talking with their mouth but out of sync.

The Monks are just a shittier version of the Silence. Moffat even wrote a scene with one in the oval office for fucks sake.

There's only 5 episodes left holy fuck.

>>83016475
6

>>83016475
No, there are six episodes left.

Normies hate multiple part stories expect the rating to be dismal by the Lie of the Land which will likely be the Kino episode of the three.

>>83016014
Gridlock should have just been a prologue or interlude though, not a 45-50 minute episode in its own right. The people in jeopardy are just TV characters, so it's devoid of any material importance.

What is the sum total of the value of the episode's story to the Doctor? He learns that he is not alone. That pay-off doesn't justify a 45-minute pseudo-mystery which doesn't really make sense anyway.

Only a few Doctor Who stories ever spend a lot of time advancing an arc plot—and most of them are stories like Let's Kill Hitler or The Armageddon Factor. Better stories like Utopia or Ribos Operation have only a few minutes of arc-plot connection, and spend the rest of their time on the actual story that you're there to watch. Because those individual stories, each one in a unique setting and largely disconnected from everything else except by the characters' character journeys, are the whole point of Doctor Who.

And the idea that there's no drama because they're just virtual people is silly. They act exactly like the people in any other episode. And it's not like the number of people in danger has anything to do with determining how good a story is. That kind of thinking is what leads to things like "This year's finale, it's not just the multiverse, it's all the multiverses that are at risk!"

Part of this kind of reaction is Moffat's fault, because he has this irritating habit of trying to sell everything as a big Babylon 5-style series-arc story even when that's not what Doctor Who is, and he only ever vaguely approximated it one year, in S5. But if that's what you're actually watching for, you're just watching the wrong show.

My issue with the Missy scene

Yeah I know the Master is a Mass murderer but it would have been better if they explained for what particular crime she was being executed for.

Also those guys ran away so why bother keeping her locked up anymore?

>>83016548
You are wrong

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>after the monks episode we have a gatiss episode to look forward to

>>83013023
Except the way this did it wasn't "It was all a dream", it was "everything is a dream", it turns the part that makes the dream scenario not interesting and instead uses it to make it terrifying drama. These are not real people involved in an imaginary place where nothing is real, this is people discovering THEY are not real and some outside force is controlling everything.

>>83016695
His episode will probably be the only good episode of this series ironically.

>>83016548
This completely, you get it. Intimate, metaphysical stories like this or Heaven Sent are so much more powerful than the other side of Moffat, which is making everything way too overblown and the stakes too high (something RTD was guilty of though he presented it differently).

It's just the Natural History of Fear all over again.

>>83016162
Live /who/ hates every episode. And it certainly doesn't reflect actual casual viewers. Casuals don't go on 4chan and look for a general for a show they casually watch so they can chat about it while watching it, they just watch it. All live /who/ tells you is what shitposters on /tv/ think, and they don't represent anyone but shitposters on /tv/.

It's actually pretty hard to know what casuals think. But just going by your own opinion isn't very helpful. We all have many episodes where our own personal opinion is out of sync with everyone else. Sure, just because most fans and most critics agree doesn't always mean casuals agree, but it's a better indicator than one idiosyncratic opinion.

>>83016772
The sad thing is, I'm pretty sure Moffat has figured that out (otherwise he wouldn't be writing stories like Heaven Sent and Extremis, he'd still be trying to get The Wedding of River Song right for the 15th time), but he seems to have no idea how to communicate that. His PR instinct hasn't kept up with his writer/showrunner instinct.

Looks like nothings gonna top series 9 at this point. If it doesn't improve by lie of the land series 9 retains it's Capaldi Kino title.

>>83016915
Series 9 remains the worst season of Doctor Who ever, so that's sad.

>>83016869
I'm not so sure, when was the last season of Sherlock written and produced? That is Moffat at his absolute winking at the camera self indulgent worst, and it aired after Heaven Sent etc. Maybe the backlash he got in the media after S9 changed some things in his mind, everyone praising Heaven Sent but shitting on Hell Bent which should've been a companion piece.

>>83016915
>nothing's gonna top series 9
>nothing's gonna top a mediocre set of episodes plus and one good episode
i don't think it's going to be too difficult

>>83016938
>anything
>worse than 6 or 7
Not possible.

>>83016915
Yeah 9 was really great. The GoT girl stuff and the final episode soured it slightly but I loved things like the lake two parter, the opening two parter and obviously Heaven Sent. The bit with GoT girl aside, I think it was Moffat finally really nailing that "Every story is a movie blockbuster" thing he's tried before, by making them length wise the same as Classic Who 4 parters.

>>83010673
The Pilot
Oxygen
-----power gap------
Knock Knock
Extremis
Thin Ice
Smile

>>83016236

I don't know mate, I don't feel the need to make ad hominem arguments against viewers who don't like the episodes that I like. Do you feel threatened if somebody devalues the things that you like?

>>83016962
But there wasn't a backlash in the media from Heaven Sent vs. Hell Bent. There was a backlash in hardcore fandom, but that's not the same thing. There's a reason people call HS a pleb filter, after all.

Look at the professional critics' reviews: HS came in 9th out of 14 (counting the two Christmas specials), and HB in 11th. And that's not because critics hated HS and HB; HB has 83% positive reviews and an 8.05/10 rating. It's because critics liked all of S9 except Sleep No More, and liked most of it more than HS.

>>83017388
There were articles in the mainstream bong media criticising Moff after S10, plenty of them, though everyone had to praise Heaven Sent.

Guys, I'm really sad to say that, but I dont like current series. The only episode I really enjoyed was the Pilot, and it was even better on a Rewatch. The rest was just uninspiring for me at all. Even Oxygen, even Extremis.
Looking forward to the first rumours and set reports of Chibs series.

>>83010221
1. Heaven Sent
2. Mummy on the Orient Express
3. Under the Lake / Before the Flood
4. The Magician's Apprentice / The Witch's Familiar
5. The Zygon Invasion / The Zygon Inversion
6. The Pilot
7. Oxygen
8. Dark Water / Death in Heaven
9. Last Christmas
10. The Husbands of River Song

>>83016548

>Gridlock should have just been a prologue or interlude though, not a 45-50 minute episode in its own right. The people in jeopardy are just TV characters, so it's devoid of any material importance.

>And the idea that there's no drama because they're just virtual people is silly. They act exactly like the people in any other episode.

This is a stupid argument, and if this is the argument that you're using to defend the episode, then it suggests the episode has no defence. The simulations aren't "real" within the TV universe. When they die, the characters that they are based on - the "real" Doctor, the real Pope, the real Bill, the real Nardole - live on.The reason the simulations kill themselves is because they don't matter. They're not real. That's why the Catholic Priests commit suicide -because they know they're not going to heaven or hell.

>What is the sum total of the value of the episode's story to the Doctor? He learns that he is not alone.

The mystery isn't the Face of Boe's message to the Doctor, though, it's why the people are trapped in the freeway. This is also wrong. Literally all of your arguments are retarded. Ninety nine percent of the episode is devoted to the freeway and the people on the freeway, and getting Martha out of there. You LITERALLY state that "Better stories like Utopia or Ribos Operation have only a few minutes of arc-plot ". Gridlock has literally two minutes of arc plot at the end of the episode - the You Are Not Alone speech is the arc-plot, but the Face of Boe plugging himself into the freeway is the main plot.

>But if that's what you're actually watching for, you're just watching the wrong show.

I'm not watching the show expecting Babylon 5. Extremis is a bad story because it amounts to a third of the overall arc, and it has zero impact on the actual events of the invasion, except that the Doctor knows it's happening. Which literally any other device could do.

>>83017558
How quickly after cancellation did wilderness years get good?

>>83016802
He (or you) brought up casuals, not me. And again, you're making the same mistake if you're judging everybody that doesn't like specific episodes of Doctor Who as a shitposter. I mean, you can choose to dismiss all negative or critical opinions as "shitposting" if you like, but it's a pretty narrow-minded and fanboyish sort of mentality.

>>83009193
Hmm... No. Maybe, but it'd most likely be a strong no.

>>83016730

I don't understand why you think people realising they're just NPC's is compelling drama. None of them were fully-fleshed out characters anyway, and they all suicided or got deleted. You can say it's an interesting concept, but it's not a concept the episode set out to explore. It wasn't Ghost in the Shell, it wasn't even fucking Wreck it Ralph.

9 was the best new Doctor.

>>83018165
It happened to Bill, Nardole and The Doctor, what are you talking about?

>>83017909
Timewyrm: Revelation, the book that really set the VNAs on their path, came out in December 1991, about two years after Survival finished.

But meanwhile, the AVs were up and running in the mid 80s, and Reeltime and BBV started up before cancellation. The comics were doing better Colin stories than the TV show. And many of the best Virgin writers (like Paul Cornell) were already publishing fan fiction in the zines.

But really, there's not going to be another Wilderness Years.

For one thing, BBC Studios has no reason to cancel a show that is basically their entire brand—it's completely different from 1989, when the BBC explicitly wanted to kill Doctor Who, and weren't even allowed to consider things like overseas sales or merch.

For another, nobody's going to do anything like the VNAs ever again. The NSAs and Big Finish are already there. And even if there were someone who'd consider appointing a non-editor to run a new line of books because nobody else cared, and that person then decided to take open submissions and post about it online, it was a big risk in 1990, and it would be basically guaranteed failure in 2017.

>>83018193

No it didn't. Bill, Nardole and the Doctor are real people, not simulations. Also:

>implying Bill, Nardole or the Doctor are fleshed out anyway

>>83018191
>was
Correct

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Yes, I am naked!

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Hello, HELLO, hello!

Anyway, why don't we stop and have a nice little chat while I tell you all my plans and you can work out a way to stop me? I don't think!

>>83018282
Did you watch the episode?

The Bill, Nardole and the Doctor we had in almost all the episode where simulations who all at one point came to the terrifying realisation they were not real and never had been. Nardole freaked out and screamed as he died realising he was imaginary, similar for Bill, but The Doctor was able to accept it and use what little power he did have to send a message to the real him to help.

>>83017893
>The simulations aren't "real" within the TV universe.
Virtual Nardole is as compelling a character as real Nardole, because he's exactly the same character. And the fact that he turns out to be facing a different kind of threat from the kind Nardole usually faces is not a strike against the story.

And the fact that he technically doesn't "count" as Nardle only matters if you think the big arc story of the Whoniverse matters but the individual Doctor Who stories we see every week don't.

Is Turn Left a bad story because none of that happened to the "real" versions of the characters? Is The Mind Robber a bad story because none of the stuff that happened to the characters was "real"?

>The mystery isn't the Face of Boe's message to the Doctor, though, it's why the people are trapped in the freeway.
Yes, that's the whole point. That's why Gridlock is a good story.

And the mystery in Extremis isn't the contents of the virtual Doctor's message to the real Doctor, either. The mystery is what Veritas is, and the fact that the characters are in a simulated world, and how they can escape—or, having failed that, how they can at least come up with some kind of triumph anyway. That's why Extremis is a good story.

>You LITERALLY state that "Better stories like Utopia or Ribos Operation have only a few minutes of arc-plot ".
Yes. And Gridlock only has a few minutes of arc plot. And so does Extremis.

>Extremis is a bad story because it amounts to a third of the overall arc
So you're watching it for the arc, rather than for the story. Which is what I said in the first place. Doctor Who almost never works that way, and good Doctor Who even less often.

>>83018483
Look at anon's second sentence:

>implying Bill, Nardole or the Doctor are fleshed out anyway

He doesn't care about the Doctor in the first place, he's not going to care about any episode. Some people just don't like Doctor Who, and that's fine. I don't know why those people would come on a Doctor Who general, but how much energy is it worth putting into answering that question?

>>83012379
These looked a lot less shitty and fake to my 14-year-old eyes in 2006. Looks like a PS2 game, literally.

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>>83016344
Everything in this series is a reused Moffat plot. He thinks he's making pottery by summarizing his era. The vault is the Pandorica.

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>>83018765
This is what my 14-year-old eyes got.

(Still a great story, though.)

Him jaw-jaw plenty by and by, eh, Johnny?

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I didn't watch all of Class. Did she ever become the black Senshi?

>>83018483

There's nothing terrifying about that though, because the real versions of them still exist. I don't get this "omg im simulation so terrifying!!!" meme. Are you seriously terrified by this? Why?

>>83018885
That's kinda hot.

>>83010741
>>83010761
Thanks chaps
>>83010803
>>83013043
I've seen An Unearthly Child and a couple of Troughton in my defense.

I've jumped about a bit, main Classic Who I've watched is McCoy because he's fucking great. Makes sense since apparently the tone/character is a big precursor to new Who.

>>83009241
so I guess that's a no?

>>83018719
Yeah, you are right.

>>83019028
Do you have a problem with empathy in general? Try to imagine it happened to you.

>>83019079
I'd still recommend going for some key B&W stories. They actually hold up a lot better than a lot of the early 70s stuff, which departs heavily from the Doctor Who format. What Troughton have you seen?

>>83019079
Okay lads, I've jumped in at "Tomb of the Cybermen" because it's apparently good, complete (as in not needing recreation) and the Cybermen are great.

N E W ?

>>83011487
>>83011487
>>83011487

>>83019339
Nice choice!

>>83019340
what the hell?

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Hello, HELLO, hello!

Anyway, why don't we stop and have a nice little chat while I tell you all my plans and you can work out a way to stop the Capaldick? I don't think!

>>83019283
>>83019339

Troughton is based lads, what a cheeky man.

I know I've seen Mind Robbers and War Games but I didn't think much of them at the time. I was more impatient, after years of Moffat I'm going to enjoy some stories with actual pacing.

>>83019339
Tomb really is highly overrated because of the circumstances of which episodes were recovered when. But it's still a good story. And if you watch the complete/mostly-complete/decently-animated stories starting from there, you get 3 of the 4 best Victoria stories, and all 5 of the best Zoe stories, and only 1 clunker, so it's a good jumping on point.

>>83019564
Yeah some of those serials are really strong, Troughton carries even the weaker stories by being so charming and fun.

It also lets you appreciate just how big a departure the 3rd Doctor era was in so many ways and see it as its own thing more. Then watching that grow into the classic sort of golden period with Baker is interesting as well, you really get a narrative.

>>83019340
No, that's a general for some show called DrWo.

Which is an anagram for Word, so I'm guessing it has something to do with the Letterman segments on Electric Company?

>>83019564
>>83019629

>You look lovely in that dress
>Thankyou Doctor...it's a bit
>A bit short!? I wouldn't worry about that, look at Jamie's
>Oi!

Fucking kek

>>83019564
>>83019723
Especially watching Enemy of the World, Web of Fear, and Invasion, which are the three obvious precursors to the Pertwee era (each in a different way), but are still very different from it.

>>83019828
Yeah, that's a good point actually, you can see the seeds there. The end of Pertwee's era flirts with space faring adventures on weird planets with questionable alien costumes a little too before it goes full back that way, and back with themeing seasons too, though the first they really use is "The Master is a dick and responsible for everything bad that happens".

>>83019033
were those anime posters in the ep?

>>83018610
This is wrong though. The entire plot of Extremis is indistinguishable from the arc-plot. It all builds up to the twist at the end - that the aliens are simulating an alien invasion. That's the twist. In Gridlock, the Face of Boe saying that the Doctor is not alone is nothing to do with the freeway. The two episodes are not comparable. In Gridlock, YANA is a coda. In Extremis, "virtue only exists in Extremis" is the culmination of the main plot.

Virtual Nardole is as compelling a character as real Nardole, in as much as he is a caricature with little to no depth, yes. I mean, this is the thing. I didn't feel the existential angst or pain of any of these simulations discovering that they were simulations. People keep calling it terrifying, but I don't think it was, because the narrative wasn't focused on the characters' reaction to the events, but the events themselves.

In Turn Left, it was genuinely haunting and distressing to see the immigrants bundled into a truck and carted away, because we actually spent some time with them, and got to care for them - it was genuinely disturbing to see Sylvia become a faded ghost of a woman, completely without hope or interest - because the episode was interested in demonstrating the human cost of the disintegration of society. I don't think you can count Nardole going "AH BILL I'M A SIMULATION HELP ME BLAAAAAAAARGH *deleted*" as a stirring emotional moment.. It's not really deep, is it? We're not looking at rounded, nuanced, developed characters reacting to their circumstances, we're looking at plot devices fulfilling their narrative function.

>>83019989
>Yeah, that's a good point actually, you can see the seeds
… of Death!

(Sorry.)

Anyway, it's kind of funny how quickly the Pertwee era broke from what it was supposed to be. The whole point was to tell a range of very different Earth-based stories using the UNIT setting to its full potential. Which they did for one season, before they ran out of ideas and added some recurring characters and did some Avengers plots with the same villain in each one until midway through the year they left Earth again. And in S9, there's only one real UNIT-style story, and UNIT isn't even in it.

But of course that's probably a lot better than if they'd actually tried to stick with the S7 formula for 3+ years as planned.

>>83020365
What you're saying is: I don't like any of the characters on the show, and therefore I don't like the virtual characters either, and therefore it's bad that they're virtual characters. You've drawn the wrong conclusion there.

>The Sixth Doctor latest audio contains a reference to his companion being happy to be able to eat pies
Does Ian Potter browse /who/ ?

>>83019827
2/Jamie/Victoria are hilarious. 2/Jamie/Zoe are even better.

Even though a lot of their stories are basically just base-under-siege with a rotating collection of monsters, it would still be fun even if you didn't get stuff like Enemy of the World and Mind Robber to shake things up.

season 1 was nice
i'm halfway through season 2 and it's so so. i don't know. does it get any better?

>ask friend what he thought of Extremis since Oxygen "didn't hit all the right spots"
>says it was eh
>ask what he thought was good enough for him
>Curse of Fenric
>and
>Robot of Sherwood

>>83020911
Do you mean the original black and white ones, or the new stuff?

>>83020428
Honestly I was never a big fan of the stripped down, evil conspiracies in the bland settings in the home counties of 70s England period. The only times I felt it really worked were The Ambassadors of Death because it was a pretty tightly scripted mystery, and Inferno just for the wackiness of the other dimension, seeing Nicholas Courtney just go full ham as the Brigade Leader. It was Delgado that really saved that era, and all his episodes were just held together with how amazing he was in every scene and his chemsitry with Pertwee.

The one good thing I can say about toning it down for that long is how exciting it felt when The Doctor was able to venture out a little, and then a little more, it made those adventures feel more meaningful.

>>83020911
If you mean series 2, with Tennant and Rose, yes, it gradually improves over the next two years.

If you mean season 2, with Hartnell and his rotating companions, it gets pretty uneven for the next couple years until you get to Troughton, but there are some truly great stories along the way.

>>83020953
good, fuck off and talk about doctor who with all your "friends" that you mention in half your posts. go blog somewhere else faggot

>>83020043
>anime posters
Those 美少女戦士セーラームーン posters were in it, yes.

>>83021196
Yeah, as much as I love the Brig, the UNIT stuff was better when it was only one or two stories per series instead of all of them, and ranged over more of the UK, and at least used a wider variety of borrowed Avengers plots. It might have been even better if they'd gone to exotic parts of the world, but then I guess that would have ruined the whole budget-saving point.

Anyway, Delgado definitely saved S8 (although even he was better when he came back in S10). But also, Katy Manning growing into her character as Pertwee started to get bored also helped a lot, and of course Lis Sladen at the end, even if that did accidentally invent the "one female companion" thing that late-JNT and RTD came back to and get stuck on.

>>83021416
>using kanji

>>83021571
Gotta say I've never been a fan of Katy Manning either. Liz Sladen is based though, you are right she is the template for modern companions in the same way Troughton and created the template for The Doctor.

>>83021890
But without the kanji, how would we know he meant Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon instead of just some random person named Seeramuun?

>>83022010
I don't like Katy Manning much in her first season, but by Frontier in Space, she's basically carrying all the scenes where the Master isn't on-screen, and even when he is, her interactions with Delgado are almost as good as Pertwee's. And she has the first really good companion-leaving scene.

Still, it would have been better if they'd swapped her out for Sarah Jane a year earlier. Or had them share a year.

>>83022255
>And she has the first really good companion-leaving scene.

Susan's is great though, as was Ian and Barbara's.

>>83022299
The Doctor's Susan speech is great of course, but the rest of the scene is pretty silly. Time Travellers makes it a little better in retrospect, and one of the Decalog stories, but the Doctor is still being a jackass and she's still just going along with it for no reason.

And the fact that he doesn't actually return (and that his later incarnations don't even seem to care when they meet her in The Five Doctors) doesn't exactly help. Sure, the audios help a bit (but then there's also Legacy of the Daleks), but returning 1000 years later is kind of stretching "one day" to Jesus-like proportions.

>>83022527
Ian and Barb's is my favourite. He really stubbornly doesn't want them to go, but the moment Victoria persuades him to let them, it's a genuine bit of character development for the Doctor, and then we have Ian and Barb's wonder at seeing London again, it's a really touching scene because we've been with them since the start, and they are looking at what to the view is meant to be their world, with more wonder in their eyes than any alien world they've seen. Then we get The Doctor looking reluctant and saying "I will miss them", it's one of the only times you ever see Hartnell's Doctor be sentimental.

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>>83022043
>not Pretty Guardian

>>83022600
Yeah, you're right, that one's pretty good, and important for the Hartnell era too.

Although I still don't get why they didn't just hop off in present-day New York a few weeks earlier and take a plane to London.

>>83022763
Because they were busy being chased by The Daleks? Honestly The Chase is hella underrated. It has a lot of comedy in it and the silly haunted house episode, but that aside it's the first serial with a genuine cosmic threat to The Doctor, something on his own level, and the tables being turned with the Daleks chasing them through time and space makes a thrilling serial, plus that amazing final goodbye.

>>83022929
I enjoy The Chase. There's nothing wrong with silly comedy when it's actually funny and doesn't actively attack the story foundations. And "Advance and attack, attack and destroy, destroy and rejoice" is much cooler than just "Exterminate! Exterminate!" over and over again. And Steven, his story gets a bit muddled at the end, but I love his introduction. (Plus, he's secretly a Time Lord, and Iris just borrowed Morton C. Dill's face to remind herself of… well, I'm not sure what, but if Astra, Maxil, and Caecilius can do it, why not Morton?)

I have a bit harder time being thrilled by the actual chase, because there's just so many Terry Nation lines that hit us over the head with the various ways none of it makes any sense. But that's not enough to prevent me from enjoying the story.

>>83023132
I love those kinds of Terry Nation stories though and his style of writing. And the Chase itself was just exciting to me because of what I said, it turned the format of the show upsidedown and for the first time had The Doctor battling something that operated on his level. That change to The Daleks did as much as their original appearance and The Dalek Invasion of Earth in a way to set them up as The Doctor's main foes for the whole rest of the show.

which fucking thread are we using

>>83023361
This one isn't anywhere near the limits, I don't know why an autist tried to force his new thread.

>>83016014
I disagree with this, the problem with New-Who is that its too rushed. Also its a drama of ideas, this week's idea was the Demon Doubt. They did something with it, took it for a spin round the block, new idea next week.

I actively dislike Dr Who when its too much about the Doctor himself but that seems to be all tumblr kids want these days.

>>83023277
I like Terry Nation's plotting, and his comedy, but his dramatic exposition dialogue is so…bad 50s-sci-fi. Which kind of works out of the mouths of Daleks, but not so much anyone else. And there's so much of it in this one. And it rarely actually explains anything; more often it just confuses things. Like this:

>It takes twelve minutes for our computers to re-orientate and gather power.

OK, I can accept this 12-minute thing that was just invented for this story and never used again, since this is 1, who doesn't know what he's doing yet, being pushed to his limits, so that's fine. But the next line is:

>Now, that twelve minutes is vital to us. We must hold onto it.

What? Just 1 second ago, the 12 minutes was a problem. Now it's an asset you have to hold onto. And then for the rest of the story they count it down (until the Daleks are ahead of them and therefore only 4 minutes behind). This makes no sense. And all you'd have to do to make it make sense is just not say anything.

>>83023463
Probably because this one can't be searched for

>>83010169
>>83012570
>This is the most perfectly designed and impregnable prison in all of creation and eternity
>Meant to contain the most dangerous being ever with no opportunity for him to escape
>Literally nothing bad could ever happen to it
>"Oh I should probably go the long way to 2010, y'know, just in case something happens to the indestructible monster prison."

>>83024484
It has /who/ in the title and Doctor Who?

>>83024530
That's in the name, not in the title. Can't be searched in the catalog.

>>83024588
Fug, you are right. Why have I never noticed this, this is retarded.

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>>83024521
>Meant to contain the most dangerous being ever with no opportunity for him to escape
>perfectly heals him
>can be opened by one of his companions with a sonic screwdriver
>can be used as a slow time machine to the future
>can be used to reverse the damage we did to his TARDIS

I just watched Extremis.

Ho boy. And people say Moffat can't write for his own life, when did RTD wrote a mashup of Matrix and The Name of the Rose again?

>Pyramid at the End of the World is co-written by Harness
Mixed feelings, Zygon double ep had good and bad moments.

Also it's totally Sutekh who's running those simulations, isn't it? Mummies, pyramids,
IT HAS to be him.

Who's your favourite Doctor and why, /who/?

>>83025167
>can be used to reverse the damage we did to his TARDIS
You gave yourself away, Dalek.

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>>83026146
Our Identity Has Been Revealed.
Exterminate!
Exterminate!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvM_pyWYGWg
>You're turning me into you.
GOAT moment or GOAT moment?

Fuck doctor who

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Let's see how you like PAPER TEARING OVER YOUR HEAD! DIE!

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Old Amy with the glasses is best Amy.

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>You don't have to be real to be the Doctor

Guys does the Doctor know he's fictional?

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>>83028067
>I'm written by Steven Moffat

>>83028067
Do you?

>>83028159
We're all stories in the end

As fingers move to end mankind
Metallic teeth begin their grind.
With sword of truth I turn to fight
The satanic powers of the night.
Is your faith before your mind?
Know me. Am I, the Doctor?

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>>83009143
>breaking into the set