/srg/ - Shadowrun General

>>55226105
>What mistakes did you do?
I let one of my players take up blood magic.

>>55226105
I was once part of a knight errand fast response team, tasked with retrieving some execs kidnapped daughter. After successfully locating her and mowing down the would be ransomers, we stood before the last metal door and instead of cracking the lock our resident idiot mr. raptor-mc-cyberlegs-with-built-in-jump-hydraulic decided to kick the door down. He critically glitched, the door flew from the hinges, slammed into the oposite wall and in the process turned a cute 5 year old girl into chunky red paste.

>>55226213
>Knight Errand

Well that's what they get for going with the knockoff budget offering.

>>55226105
Is that art a joke mockup or something CGL paid someone for?

>>55226213
>rescue female
>doesnt impregnate her
dude what are you a fuckin elf?

>>55226232
Our polish accents should've been a dead giveaway.

>>55226248
>CGL
>paid

It's official

>>55226253
>rescue
That usually implies people being, you know, alive.

>>55226232
I am now imagining a few jumped-up gangers in really trashed armor with Knight Errand written on it calling themselves a Fast Response Team and demanding they be treated as such.

>>55226253

Its an actual kid you piece of pedophilic drek

Also, backstory idea: What qualities would a Runner who was forced to fight his own his family to the death have? The backstory is a dictator who conquered his country forced his family to kill one another for sport said dictator died years ago by someone else so no revenge story

>>55226302
Can you use genital replacement surgery to put an adult womb in a kid tho?

I think my game's bunraku parlors just got a bit more perverse.

>>55226295
Well, it was a stupid typo, but i actually like this idea quite alot.

>>55226213
>>55226232
>>55226295
Stealing this for a run idea

>>55226302
>Also, backstory idea: What qualities would a Runner who was forced to fight his own his family to the death have? The backstory is a dictator who conquered his country forced his family to kill one another for sport said dictator died years ago by someone else so no revenge story
Is there some sort of maximum edgy angst award you are going for?

>>55226379

I just wanted to see what kind of person would come from this kind of background personality wise

>>55226213
>Replaying SR: Hong Kong.
>Last thing I did before quitting to come shitpost on /srg/ was talking to Gobbet about improvising when runs go bad.
>Hear the story about the Streetsam with the crazy augmented legs killed their mark by accidentally kicking the duraplast door through him
>Come to /tg/
>Read this.

>>55226428
Probably a junkie.

>>55226448
>SR: Hong Kong
Is that one of the android games? Are they good?

>>55226295
Fucking fanboys, doing it for free.

>>55226105
I am currently trying to port the Vishkar Corporation from Overwatch for a Shadowrun campaign , and am struggling on how to show the use of its hard light tech without it being an instant death " you have been found, the floor disappears under your feet and you fall to your death."

>>55226478
I think only the core and the original version of Dragonfall were made with android and other mobile devices in mind.

IIRC, the Director's Cut of Dragonfall and all of HK were made with being PC games in mind.

>>55226731 Adapisin requires Restricted gear as it's over availability 12 (assuming this is a standard character not a prime runner) that's ten karma, Burnout is 15 and biocompatability is 5 again assuming standard character creation, that's 30 karma of positive qualities you can't have all three. You drop the adapsin as it produces the essentially same effect as biocompatability for far greater cost.

>>55226809
IIRC the Hardlight stuff actually constructs material. So it can quickly build something, but not quickly destroy it.

>>55226105
>Letting Slamm-O Slamm-U

Does an AI character do well rigging? What are the shortfalls of AI in general? What are they great at?

>>55226892
Slamm-U sounds like a very lucky (or unlucky) changling that's mostly whale.

Also, I forgot above but,

>>55226478
They're pretty good games if not system representative. (That's also a good thing, if only because of the niche within a niche that would be 2e simulation.)

Dead Man's Switch is the worst of the three, but not bad. Just remember to use Overwatch well in the late game.

From there it's all to taste as to if Dragonfall or Hong Kong is better.

>>55226910
An AI, if you build for it and play safe, can be a great rigger and thus a good street sam.

The downside is that the attributes are scaled back as if you'd done a mostly even spread of physical attributes, most of their Advanced Programs aren't worth getting, and they're really gear dependant.

They're good at surviving assuming they don't get two shot, they can technically steal stuff in real time (ish), and can in a pinch actually do hacking.

But trust me when I say that making an acceptable hacking AI is insanely ass-backwards.

>>55226910
AFAIK AIs are good at three things
>Exceeding in a mental attribute
AIs can get a quality that removes the upper limit on one of their mental attribute. Best example is Cinnamon, an AI with a CHA of 13, but you can also be the most perceptive and fastest motherboardfucker in the Matrix with high INT, Smarter than any Great Dragon with high LOG or able to kill matrix enemies through basically Matrix Shrapnel with high WIL
>Being a Sammy
If you take Pilot origins you replace Pilot with your Depth. Drones use Pilot for Agility.
>Stealing cars
You have a power that allows you to become the owner of a device. Enter a car, become the owner, open the door, drive to the nearest chop-shop and deliver the unscratched, now ownerless car.

>>55226868
>you can't have all three
Unless you buy biocomp in game or are playing prime.

So, you can persona fix someone with trodes, right?
Can an AI work as a personafix program?

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>>55226478
They're the best Shadowrun games both for the setting and for the feel of the game (they very loosely approximate 2e rules)
Dragonfall and Hong Kong both have very strong writing and are engaging rpgs in their own right.
and gobbet a qt

>>55226345
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

But the fact that you shouldn't means that people have of course already done it.

>>55227858
>But the fact that you shouldn't means that...

People will pay very handsomely for it?

>>55227781
I want to give Glory a head pat.

>>55227327
A normal AI is unlikely to be able to do that. One that evolved from a Personafix might still be able to, but it's a very iffy/strange thing.

>>55226345
I dont think a adult womb would fit ina child tough

>>55227900
Depends on the kid, and how much of their stomach and intestines you're also willing to replace with cyberware.

>>55227900
No need to worry about that, kids can get pregnant just fine!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

I'm still baffled by the people who feel that CGL should write more on sex in the 6th world, because this discussion is literally it.

Can you imagine it? Yes? It exists. No? Well it's still out there.

>>55227955
How many adventures has CGL written that take you to the deep ends of the 6th worlds depravity ?

i seriously don't know, have they written any ?

>>55227892
and a hug

>>55227955
To justify having a bunraku brothel full of stolen children loaded out with enough 'ware and cosmetic surgery to satisfy every fetish.

>>55228133
>>55227955
I already make up my own lore whenever I don't like something CGL has decided as canon anyway. Why ask to have them dictate what depravity looks like when they can barely write anything already?

>>55228164
You know, because they have the IP and should lend a guiding hand to GMs that are just learning what makes cyberpunk punk ?

>>55228199
And CGL have decided that sex only needs a few paragraphs at the start of a CRB to talk about sex. They obviously disagree that depraved sex is a very important part of cyberpunk.

>>55228258
>They obviously disagree
They obviously don't.

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>>55228258
>thinking some sjw writers get to decide what is and isn't included in cyberpunk

Nihilism and hedonism, paired with the resources to go full retard on them are two big parts of cyberpunk, even cgl admittet that with ther short text on that, they are just afraid to offend anybody by wrting more about it.

>>55228258
>>55228457
There's an old Missions adventure where you find a young girl part way through bunraku surgery. Third edition, an interview with a catgirl changeling skirts talking frankly about sex & libido with a changeling. Fourth edition, a mod "deletes" a rant on sex with shapeshifters. I don't think they need to get more explicit in mentioning all the fucked up things you can do for it to legit exist within the setting.

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>>55226279
They were being held hostage. Now they are no longer being held hostage. Stop nitpicking.

>>55229003
When you above and beyond and not only free them from the hostage taker, but from the grasp of life itself.
If anything they should have gotten a promotion for that.

>>55226478
>Are they good?
Yes.

>>55226868
>30 karma of positive qualities you can't have all three.
Adept Ways don't count against your Quality Karma limit.

>>55229415
I really like them but i would prefer if they were more focused in "random" miszions and you growing more as shadowrunner than some greater plot

>>55229605
90% of the missions in Dragonfall and Hong Kong were random contract work. The only runs in Hong Kong that were 'main plot' missions were going into the Walled City for the first time, the Plastic-Man run, the major corporate extraction, and then going back into the Walled City.

>>55229648
This is why i like hk more but i really meant without major plot
And choosimg the caharacter background

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>>55229003
>46 of 3 suspects confirmed dead

What the hell are "gel rounds 2050"? They're in chummer but not SR5.

>>55230893
You have the 2050 sourcebook turned on.

>>55230922
Nope. Just checked. Is it a glitch?

>>55231099
The guy that implemented it forgot to change the source for those to 2050, looks like. I'll sort it out shortly.

>>55229003
I don't understand more than half of these.

>>55231280
>>>/k/

Then learn

So, I've seen the term "burnout adept" thrown around a bunch

What is a burnout adept?
spoonfeed me pls

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>>55231807
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=burnout+adept

They're adepts who burned out. Both the noun and the adjective are common in SR, if you don't know them you need to lurk moar and read a book or two.

acting like being spoonfed is something you should ever want, and not simply take as a sign that you're an infant who needs to learn more

>>55231807
A dirty minmaxer. But really though, a "burnout" is an Awakened person (a person capable of using Magic) who, due to poor decisions or accidents, become addicted to cyberware which in turn diminishes their magical abilities. Thus they pack in more cyber in a desperate bid to reclaim their lost power, only to lose more of it with every piece of metal, plastic, and circuitry they weld to themselves. Eventually they have too much of it to even cast the simplest of cantrips.

There are certain builds that sacrifice a certain amount of magical ability to gain greater boons from cyberware, thus maximizing the overall abilities of the runner.

>>55231807
Adept that burns out their magic with Essence loss, then buys their magic back up with initiation and a shit-ton of karma investment.

>>55231807
An adept with cyberware or bioware. Those fuckers can be absolute monsters.

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>New Perturbator
>It's basically fucking perfect Cyberpunk

https://perturbator.bandcamp.com/album/new-model

Have you guys ever run a drake or had a player that ran as one?

>>55231859
Why exclude a member of the hobby anon? Why act like a pretentious faggot?

>>55232594
I played an adept drake once, it was fun. I only transformed during jobs, & had drake modded Sleeping Tiger to stealth most of me. Wielded a claymore.

>>55232658
Because spoonfeeding leads to a deathspiral. If someone can't be arsed to look something up on their own, they're not really going to be an asset to the hobby.

We can save the hugbox bullshit for when CGL loses the license and we actually want people to buy Shadowrun shit.

>>55232776
Anon, that's /a/ logic.
It's what turned them into a cesspool for talking about anything anime related.
we're /tg/, we don't do that.

>>55232769
I'm thinking of going for a Stealth Way Adept infiltrator wielding a katana.

>>55232819
We don't spoonfeed either. I'm happy to help, but I can't be bothered with people who can't be bothered to handle simple shit themselves.

>>55232874
Look, I don't give a shit about whatever /a/ memes you think are important.
Here we don't roll that way, and I don't appreciate you trying to do your board invasion shit here.

>>55233071
You sound new. /Tg/ hasn't been for spoonfeeding in generals since we saw what happend to /pfg/.

>>55233146
>/Tg/
>using the term spoonfeeding
>calling anyone new
It's always weird to get those /a/ immigrants.

>>55233177
you mean /A/ immigrants.

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>>55233071
>>55233177.

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>>55233177
Gee oldfag, you sure showed us!

>>55233195
>>55233195
Ah, the old "you mad" defense. Perfect for the newfag.

>>55232874
He asked for clarification on nomenclature you asinine swizzle stick. You can't "look it up". Its like using the word gish in a D&D thread. Granted there is the Burnout's Way, what most people call a burnout adept, but its not called that in the game book, & when it is it is a small mention in a source book. So asking him to pour over hundreds of pages of shitty editted books which he may not even has access to is simply retarded

The gall to respond with such distain to someone asking for help... why even devote so much energy into being an asshole?

Rolled 2, 2, 6 = 10 (3d6)

>>55233071
>Here we don't roll that way

No, we roll this way.

>>55233209
>>55233195
Jesus christ, I've not seen someone fall apart into shitposting this hard in a while.
I guess people get angry when you tell them we don't use those memes here.

>>55233227
That is correct, that is how we roll.

>>55233224
It's what people from the shitty boards do.

>>55233248
Hey, they can't help that they haven't lurked long enough to know how /tg/ operates.
Well, they can, but they refuse to because they are bad people.

>>55232822
While i did something similar i must stress not to be too edgy. A ninja drake is just soooo edgy right from the concept. I'd change your weapon fluffwise. A longsword with katana stats or something. Less ninja stealth vibe & more spec ops stealth vibe etc.

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>mfw stacking burnouts way and adapsin

>>55231859
This is why you should always put points into Etiquette folks, otherwise you come off like this faggot here

>>55233224
>You can't "look it up"
You can definitely look up "burnout" in Street Magic or Street Grimoire.

>>55233271
Dont forget prototype transhuman

>>55233297
he put points in the wrong etiquette is the problem.

>>55229476
It does not anywhere say they don't count as qualities.While there things that are like that (like infected qualities) the all explicitly state they are and ways by RAW are not one of them. The text on ways refers back to the core rulebook section of qualities so that further suggests they behave like normal qualities

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>>55233307

>>55233271
You can't have adapsin Burnout's way and biocompatibility, and you should definitely prioritise biocompatibility over adapsin, it's cheaper and has the same effect.

>>55233268
Good advice. Trying to think of their backstory now. Currently leaning on ex-protege/servant of Ryumyo.

>>55233321
I dont see drake. That shit needs dragons

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>>55233393
>That shit needs dragons

>>55233389
You should be an active servant of your dragon papa, through a handler because dragons have better things to do. It might feel constrictive but it is just how most drakes live life & also will help convince your GM that you aren't some loner/escaped bad boy looking for revenge. Try to be okay with the dragon's decisions, dont rebel hard at first.

>>55233321
just because you recognise it doesn't make it any better.

>>55233405
Accept the dragon dick anon

But nah im just saying if you want to snowflake as hard as >>55233321 then you need to staple drake on there too

>>55233445
Yeah, the way I though of going would be difficult as all hell to pull off without some grade-a plot armor.

>>55233321
What restricted gear would you take with this?

>>55233478

Adapsin is 16

>when your morning routine have become opening roll20, r/lfg/ and Game Finder thread.
There will be a day when I break and GM a game, but its not gonna be today

>>55233271
Biocompatibility (Bioware)
Burnouts way (Bioware)
Type 0 System
All bioware is deltaware
all bioware consumes -30% or so essence

>>55229003
Why is the KSK a swiss countryball?

When you get a custom implant cyberweapon, does it get a internal magazine, or do you have to grab an external clip port with it in order to actually load the gun?

>>55233635
>Type 0 System

What is this?

>>55233686
4e thing, for a lot of karma you treat standard bioware as delta

>>55233696

If we go to 4e, just go braincase.

Shame that has yet to get to 5e.

>>55233673
>Each uses their own statline as normal
Don't question it too hard.

>>55233721
>Shame that has yet to get to 5e.
It never will, either. If they had any intention of including it, Chrome Flesh would have been the first opportunity and Rigger 5.0 would have been the last.

>>55232587
Man, the opening of Birth of the New Model really reminds me of Baba O'Riley.

If I take Burnout's Way, do I keep the discount on 'ware if my Magic gets tanked all the way down to 0?

>>55234540
No. You lose your magic, you get no magic benefits anymore. That's why no one goes below 1 essence.

>>55234567
So you just, what, instantly die as all of your 'ware reverts back to its Standard cost?

>>55234613
Yep. Try not to get snacked on by a vamp.

>>55234567
>>55234668
You lose your Way when you hit Magic 0, but your essence costs don't retroactively change. You just don't get any further discounts after that.

>>55234823
So, what you're saying is [KILL LA KILL REFERENCE].

>>55234888
Yes, you have to find out who killed your dad. You can hear it every time you fail a composure check.

>>55234888
Sorry, I don't watch Chinese children's cartoons.

So anons, I have been invited to a 4E game and i aim to misbehave. What is the most munchkin way to build a combat mage? Do i get a pain editor from the start or is the lost essence not worth casting spells until i drop dead?

>>55234964
Play a blood mage, but use your own real blood when you cast spells and summon.

>>55234964
A Pain Editor is never not worth the Essence. And that's true for every Archetype.

>>55234983
1. eeeww
b) GM said blood magic is off limits at chargen

>>55234996
Oh.

Then yes, always get a pain editor if you're going full munchkin.

>>55235004
If i have a pain editor, i think i will also take will to life at 3. Having a strong will is par for the course for a mage.
What other wetware should i get to make the best use of the burned essence point?
Is stuff like cerebral boosters worth getting or should i just buff myself or munch down drugs like skittles?

>>55234540
> If your maximum rating falls to zero, you’ve burned out, losing all magical abilities, including astral perception and projection.
> For adepts, losing Essence is doubly dangerous because every time your Magic attribute is reduced, you lose an equal number of Power Points (you have to “un-buy” powers to make up the loss).
You're still magical so long as you have a maximum Magic rating. (0/X) ie; You can buy back up to Magic 1 and truck on like nothing happened.

>Once he gains two Magic Rating points after taking the Burnout quality, he loses the quality, though he keeps the benefits gained up until that point (meaning the Essence cost of his augmentations do not change).
If you buy up to Magic 2/X (or buys two magic points, GM interpretation willing), you lose the way but permanently keep all essence cost reductions gained up to that point.

Does someone have a specific sentence that causes you to lose a way when your magic hits 0/X or 0/0?

>>55235071
You don't lose any magical Qualities when you hit Magic 0, it's just that most of them aren't useful to you anymore at that point.

>>55235070
Platelet Factories. And you said 4e? A Trauma Damper too.

>>55235071
First part is wrong, if your magic ever hits zero you burnout permanently even if you still have a psoitive maximum magic.

>>55235262
Not in 5e.

>>55235276
>If your Magic is reduced to zero, you can no longer use any skill requiring the Magic attribute, even if your maximum Rating is still greater than zero (but you can still raise the attribute with Karma and then get back to the spellslinging). If your maximum rating falls to zero, you’ve burned out, losing all magical abilities, including astral perception and projection.

>if your maximum Rating is still greater than zero (but you can still raise the attribute with Karma and then get back to the spellslinging)

>If your maximum rating falls to zero, you’ve burned out, losing all magical abilities, including astral perception and projection.

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Which book in 5E can you find rules for ballistic shields ?

>>55235355
They're in the core rule book.

>>55235355
>Which book in 5E can you find rules for ballistic shields ?
The core rulebook.

>>55235283
>If your maximum rating falls to zero, you’ve burned out, losing all magical abilities, including astral perception and projection.
>If your Magic is reduced to zero, you can no longer use any skill requiring the Magic attribute, even if your maximum Rating is still greater than zero
Interesting. So, your Magic-linked skills get locked out at Magic 0, but you aren't Burned Out, and you retain access to things like Astral Perception or Adept Ways as long as your Maximum Magic is 1+?

Meaning as long as you have Exceptional Attribute (Magic), you can ride straight down to Essence .01 and still be 'Awakened.'

>>55235117
Thanks, I'll look into this. Gotta check the availability, the way i jugde the GM he'll make me take at least a 3/3 street doc as a contact, if i can not come up with a decent backstory. I'll have to do a lot of justification on this one.
Hell, i still need a reason to not sit in an office and get paid for simply being a mage in middle management. "I like to melt faces" will probably not fly.

>>55235384
>Meaning as long as you have Exceptional Attribute (Magic)
That's the part that makes me think they did not think this through properly.

>>55235384
Or initiate.

>>55235393
The same reason the Decker isn't working in IT. It's a gilded cage. It's cushy, but your corp literally owns you once you sign on.

>>55235417
You lose Initiate grades when you lose Magic. They're capped by your Magic score. If your Magic is 0, you have 0 Initiate Grades.

What would you do if you woke up in a random location in Shadowrun?

>>55235573
Would entirely depend on the location, my reaction would differ if they were in the foyer of a Shiawase facility versus a Devil Rat infested sewer.

>>55235573
What an idiotically vague question.

>>55235612
'kay, what would you do if you woke up in the Redmond barrens or Ryumyo's private summer island or a top secret corporate facility?

>>55235573
Probably not realise it's shadowrun until I'm attacked by a paracritter or beaten to unconsciousness by cops / corpsec for not having a SIN.

>>55235573
Shit my pants. I've got like 3 stats across the board 1 computer skill, rating 2 on firearms group and 1 for throwing weapons, (thank you BMT)
Also 1 military/corporate/4chan etiquette and no contacts whatsoever. I give myself 72 hours, then i'm dead.

>>55235628
Get dissected, with the difference being how professional the results are.

>>55235643
Also, i'd probably ask some ganger if i can borrow a weapon to knock over some convenience store. Either i'll make freinds then progress from there or i'm the chump who get's killed in the food fight module.

>>55235628
>Ryumyo's private summer island
Apologize as politely and earnestly as I can and try to ask for a ride to Japan or Seattle.

>>55235380
>>55235384
Oh nice, thanks. Must've missed it.

>>55233224
It's funny, we have this thing called 'the internet' nowadays where you can find all sorts of info just by looking up some words. He's wasting more time and bandwidth, ours and his own, by asking people to explain something that is explained in detail in multiple easily found places. That's what lurking is for; so you don't come in with an empty head and demand to be filled. If you see a word you don't understand, you take a fraction of a second and a tiny bit of initiative to learn on your own, and come out feeling smarter and more aware of your own capabilities.

It's the same reason we still teach long division and other math for years at school instead of math class just being 20 minutes on how to use a calculator in Grade 1. If you can understand the process for getting knowledge on your own, you are way better equipped to use that knowledge.

>>55233297
And you put point into Computer so you learn how to use the search function of Google and you preferred PDF reader.

Anon skipped out on Etiquette (Regular People), but he took a specialization in 4chan.

>>55236365
>we still teach long division [...] for years
Where the fuck do you live? Here we did LD once, and promptly never touched it again.

>>55236401
Ottawa. I can remember doing it in at least a few different grades in primary school. Just looked up the guidelines for my old school district, seems it was a component up into secondary school, at least as a primer/refresher.

Question. I've managed to get a cyborg's armor up to 22 while naked. Should they fight my players in the nude, or should they have armor on?

>>55236770
What are your players armed with?

>>55236770
Depends. Do they have cyberdicks with lasers?

>>55236770
With armor. Even a character with 40+ soak dice will eventually be rendered unconscious by small hits piling up over time. And this will happen sooner rather than later if he confronts a whole group alone.

>>55236776
fanciest (and best at piercing armor) thing is a laser rifle, but the cyborg has a grapple hand and like 9 strength, so they're stealing it round 1. Other than that, they've got a smattering of sniper rifles for dealing with armor. No explosives though.

>>55236770
Give them a helmet and a ballistic shield.

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>>55236794
>>55236887
I figured it out. This counts as an armored coat, right?

Hmmmm. Should bonuses from a metahuman form carry over to a shapeshifter's natural form? Mostly stuff like increased lifestyle costs, but what about Reach and such for trolls?

>>55237159
I think running faster has a table for what carries over.

>>55236365
Yep, so anon went on to this "internet" sought out a well known & knowledgable information base, that he trusted, & asked a question. This is like asking a teacher or classmate how to do long division & you just shrieking that its in the textbook & they should look it up themselves. Fuck you

>catlike
this mean i walk like catwoman or that i have have ears?

>>55237632
It means you'll go into heat every couple of months.

>>55237672
yeah i know
my cat always has these times where she run like if death is at door

>>55237159
Run Faster p.102 says that MOST racial traits transfer from one form to the other, but gives Natural Weapon (Bite) and Goring Horns as examples of what doens't. Basically anything that isn't there you won't get.

Runners Companion p.86 actually points out any Natural Armor or Reach (Both + and -) as only applying in Critter form, so it's safe to assume that the same would go with the Metahuman form.

As for the lifestyle/gear cost, you're still gonna need it adapted for your metahuman form whenever you are in that form. If a player insists that he spends all his time in animal form, then he's suddenly gonna have the same problem of adapting everything he owns to be controlled from a dog form. Let it carry over and let GMs rule on wether to keep it or not.

On a related note, can Shapeshifters be Surged?

Is there a source anywhere that lists most of the fluff/JackPoint characters Persona appearance? I recall mostly only ever reading about what FastJack looked like and that's about it, but I feel like a lot of the Jackpointer talk they print and all really seems to forget that, given by how the host architecture of JackPoint is described, those are actually a bunch of personas standing in the same room with each other, talking, with some of the fluff passages even having moments where a bunch of people are in a room and then Frosty and Harlequin walk in while Hestaby watches in the corner, and very little description of what this acrtually is like in the matrix of 5e.

As I recall there was nothing on Personas in the Complete Trog for example, despite several prominent JackPointers appearing. It would be interesting to know about how exactly Clockwork and Netcat yelling fuck you each other while standing in the same room actually plays out.

>>55237885
Just about anything can be surged, and in-setting, the more snowflakey you are (shapeshifters, metavariants, hmhvv, etc) the more likely it is to happen.

>>55237983
Source on that? I thought it was random/dictated by local mana levels.

>>55238280
What you just witnessed is called shitposting, and in these parts it's usually drawn from wide assumptions about the setting originating in memes and general "that guy" or "special snowflake" hatred.

It is better to not respond to it unless you want to keep meming.

bulding a melee without magic nor cyberweapons is viable?
i mean his damage would be from his cyberpunches from his cyberarms but no cyberweapons

>>55237885
Explicitly yes. So can Sasquatches, Nagas, Centaurs, etc.

>>55237983
Actually, no, the more snowflakey you are, the less likely it is to happen. That's why mundane humans, for example, are the most likely Metatype.

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>>55238422
Oh yay, I can play wolf with elongated limbs that'll be unique! Oh wait nvm... fucking Maned Wolf.

>>55238395
Not really.

>>55238468
Or you could just use the wolf template and say that you are a maned wolf.

Did the same with my character and uset the hawk template to play a parrot.

>>55238470
but why
i mean i have a fuckin metal arm it really have a strong punch you know a punch of a cyberarm in the head really will kill you
also what if i do this as a troll?

>>55238468
On the interesting side, I'm pretty sure SURGE trays are assigned to the character as a whole, rather than to just one form or the other.

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>>55238395
Maybe you can finally find a use for Cyberlimb Optimization and take The Greatest.

>>55238507
Are you drunk, underaged, or just really bad at English?

>>55238395
Ask your GM to houserule a punch mod instead of cyberspurs. Like some additional hardening and maybe the top of your knuckles designed to look like a fucking meat tenderizer.
Optimize the cyberlimb for boxing for bonus dice on the punching test. Pick up a martial art.

Now you're ready to go non magical non cyberweapon(ish) punchy dude.

>>55238507
A maxxed out cyberarm grants a human 9P -ap damage. Not bad, but you will still need to close the distance and use complex actions to punch. Insult to injury, any decent gun will do just as well as your arm.

>what if i do this as a troll?
Then you jack that up to 13p -ap base, but you have to pay the troll tax. and you still need to get in close, and use complex actions to attack.

>>55238524
really bad at english
i learnt english watching movies, series, and playing videogames, give me a break dude pls

>>55238507
Because it's always going to be strictly worse than doing the same thing but with brass knuckles or a crazy cyber-spike. You can punch people to death with your sick cyberarm, but it's strictly less viable than using some kind of weapon.

In fact, it's strictly less viable than using Bone Lacing and Striking Calluses to boost your punch damage, instead of a cyberarm.

I'd go so far as to say that a cyberarm offers the worst options of any unarmed punching method.

>>55238544
It would actually be better to pick up a martial art with Kick Attack and wear Plasteel Toe Boots on your cyberlegs. Cyberlimb optimization doesn't care if it's in arms or legs, and since you get +1 DP for every 2 limbs you could just do 2 arms and 2 legs, just Kick Attack might not work.

>>55238551
Well, you speak better English than I do Spanish, or whatever the fuck you are. Thanks for answering my question.

>>55238572
it doesnt make much sense tough i mean taking a titanium punch in the face would surely kill you

>>55238512
"Hey that little falcon has pretty long wings and legs don't you think?" Then it turns into a 4 meter giant and slaps you from across the street.

Yes I like the elongated limbs quality a bit too much.

>>55238596
Sense or not, that's the rules.

>>55238587
you are welcome, sometimes i have problem speaking english but google translate is my god

>>55238596
The rest of the guy punching you isn't titanium though. He still has to live, work and move around with that arm, and he has to work with the hold he has on the ground to back up his punch from and the rest of his body suffering the pull of the arm.

Cyberlimbs are made for people to live with them, not as jackhammers. They start at average human strength and can be painstakingly upgraded from there, but never actually surpass what a metahuman body could achieve by itself. The fact they're metal just makes them deal physical instead of stun damage.

>>55238596
A good solid full-on punch to the face would be a near-perfect attack. A critically effective hit, if you will.
Most attacks are not that perfect.

And besides, if you really prefer the idea of 9 damage instakilling, you can always run your own game and nerf health across the board.

>>55238575
I mean assuming my suggestion of melee hardening with upgraded knuckles for the cyberarm actually nets you the same damage bonus as Titanium bone lacing (which by all logic it should, and I'd like to see the Hitler of a GM who would shut that down), it lets him deal enough damage and stays true to his concept. Admittedly he'd still need martial arts.

>>55238643
no i did not mean this, i was just saying that a metal punch, even when its not in the face would surely make you cry.

>>55238643
>A good solid full-on punch to the face would be a near-perfect attack. A critically effective hit, if you will.
It's Called Shot: Vitals, basically. Except the melee version, because none of the called shot location modifiers make sense for melee.

>>55238675
Oh, it'll do about as much damage as getting shot by a decent-caliber pistol round. Nothing head-exploding, though.

>>55238675
How much STR does your cyberarm have? 6? The guy who goes to the gym every day also has a 6 strength arm. His actual arm. He hits with just as much force, just not for physical damage because it's flesh and bone, not metal.

Your cyberarm is stronger than that? So is a troll.

>>55238708
now imagine a cybertroll

>>55238708
Hitting someone in the face with an unaugmented fist and high str is a splendid way to break a hand. Skulls are pretty sturdy.

>>55238723
Cyberlimb strength is independent of character strength.

Take a piece of metal. Touch it to your cheek. Now take a piece of wood, do the same. Did the piece of metal send you across the room? No? It's almost as if material has very little to do with force, and force is the primary metric in question here, with comes down to the strength of the limb. All material does is affect the transfer of force, and thus S or P damage.

>>55238735
but cyberlimb can produce more mechanical energy than a biological arm anon

>>55238729
I think we're assuming skilled strikers here, not to mention gloves with no mechanical effect are probably allowed just as much as the assumption your character owns normal clothes.

>>55238753
On a metal mount in the factory where its being tested, yes. Attached to a metahuman body? No, it does exactly as much force as its STR rating, which is a rating within metahuman limits in order to not tear said metahuman apart.

>>55238768
you just replace the key parts for the punch moviment in order to not tear yourself apart

>>55238789
Okay, where do you draw the line? Your shoulder has to go, obviously, but wait... punching is like a strong, sudden push against another surface so.... there's pushback, right, and you need to have a strong stance to maintain your position against the ground to transfer the force into the target object instead of being pushed back yourself, right? So I guess your legs are the key parts, too.... Hm, it almost seems like if you assume that cyberlimbs have a magical extra STR rating beyond what is listed everything fucking falls apart.

>>55238819
Arms, shoulder, legs, waist and part of the torso.

Is there any nanoware left that actually does something worthwile ?

>>55239525
Yeah few
O-Cells if you are gonna be dealing with infected and want to be immune to any disease
Control Rig Booster for riggers
Voice mimic system for infiltrators
Savior Medkit is a must
But mostly cyber does stuff better

>>55239787
>O-Cells if you are gonna be dealing with infected and want to be immune to any disease

2070 Belmont family, here i come.
Bournout adept might be the best choice to use and whip weapon focus.

>>55240000
nvm
O-type cells reduce the power of diseases from viral or bacterial origin
HMHVV is retroviral

>>55240064
Isn't a retrovirus still a virus?

>>55240083
Run Faster, page 144
>Nature: This attribute describes the disease’s type and the root cause of its effects. These include bacterial, fungal, parasitic, retroviral, toxin, and viral. This also tells how the disease might be combated using pharmaceuticals and other biotech.
Chrome Flesh, page 150
>O-cell nanoware reduces the Power of any viral or bacterial pathogens that infect the host by its Rating.
So by pure RAW viral are different from retroviral
Even funnier? As far as I can see HMHVV are the only diseases in the game

>>55239525
It gives you CFD. That's worthwhile.

>>55240083
Well, there are two kinds of viri: RNA-viri and DNA-viri. DNA based ones are more stable, due to the lesser error rate of DNA-Polymerase, which means that they can survive harsher environments with their payload intact but also means having smaller variety due to lesser rate of mutation. This also means that RNA-viri are less effective since a lot of "offspring" non-functional which they counter with higher adaptability.
A Retrovirus is a RNA-virus, which has to translate his RNA payload into DNA first before it can be built into the host DNA. Their main mechanism is different (hijacking the Ribosomes vs. implanting the payload in the host Genome).
Retroviri also have more long term effects since they effectively change our Genome. Big parts of our DNA are fragments implanted by viri.
So basically: Yes they are both viri, no they have different methods of replication and thus have to be countered in different ways

>>55240236
I think BB has some more of those.

Still going to be cyberpunk Belmont with the old family creed and sticking it to the man and their godless experiments.

>>55240628
Well i i want to tell HMHVV and VITAS to go fuck itself, it seems lice that the nephritic screen would be the most cost efficient way to go, maybe i will throw in a rating 2 nanohive with o-cells

>>55241165
Also consider being a Dwarf, and not just for the stat line.

>>55229605
I can't stand that. Frankly, if there's no greater metaplot to get wrapped up in, why bother? SR is, at heart, a fantasy series. Part of fantasy is going larger-than-life.

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Guy who wanted to make a Kusanagi knockoff here. My buddy liked the idea, and said he we could discuss a homebrewed full-body prosthetic for GitS style characters(it apparently factors into his plot somewhat). What do you guys think would be a good $$$/Essence tradeoff? We're already assuming you can upgrade it like a normal cyberlimb

>>55243136
>SR is, at heart, a fantasy series
SR is at heart a cyberpunk series, where individuals don't count

>>55243503
Wrong. It's fantasy. Earthdawn proves it.

>>55243497
have you seen the Cyborg rules from 4e?

>>55243527
No. What splat are they in?

His idea was that you lost ultimately one or two essence, and that the installation time was *extremely* long, as it involved making the soul recognize the new body as it's own- as a result you can't bounce from shell to shell like in GitS without starting to get Close Shell Syndrome/Cyberbrain Sclerosis/mental illness from the swaps.

From what i understand the Cyborg 4e rules mean you have a short lifespan, and like .1 essence or something?

>>55237551
It's more like anon was given a book that told him exactly what he wanted to know, but instead of reading it he just went to go interrupt some people and ask them to tell him.

Oh wait, it's exactly like that.

>>55243517
I tell cyberpunk stories in SR though?

>>55243668
Sure, and I can do that in D&D. Doesn't mean it's a good fit.

>>55243582
Ok Ok
You loose 2 essence and gain what? 2 essence for 5 cyberlimb body? Ability to transfer body? What are the meat stats?
Why not play AI street sam?

>>55243497
Well, let's use liminal body(centaur) as a reference. It's essentially four integrated cyberlimbs and costs 3 essence(75% of the normal essence cost) and 80,000 nuyen, about 33% more than four limbs.
So for an integrated body that consists of torso four limbs a cyberskull, I'd suggest the total essence cost of the above times .75 (works out to 4.7,so I'd round up to 5) and total cost times 1.25 which is 120,000 for obvious cyberware, or about 160,000 for synthetic, all this at standard grade. I'd also make you take the restricted gear quality and probably some appropriate negatives like wanted, as I'm thinking this couldn't be off the rack, this would have to be a prototype.
Alternatively, you could just do it as a cyberware suite.

>>55243497
Did you see the discussions in the last two threads about how to make a full-body Bundle?

>>55243582
Augmentation p158
You basically get a braincase with a commlink for a fuckload of money, reducing your Essence to 0.1
However you are then able to rig drones with a load of added boni

>>55243674
why would SR not be a good fit for cyberpunk stories?

>>55243724
Because the rules for AI are a pain in the dick

>>55226248
Thats NetCat and Slamm-0.

It's awful.

>>55243725
This seems like it would work well. There were for sure going to be some in character consequences, which makes it all the more fun.
>>55243733
I probably started them, but what >>55243725
suggested is closer to what my buddy and i want.
>>55243724
What >>55243749 said. AI rules are a flaming heap

Thanks for the help guys. I'll be sure to pop back in with a character sheet/to tell you how it went!

>>55238280
Don't listen to the peanut gallery. It's from the original source of SURGE / Changelings - Year Of The Comet. Nothing since then has contradicted it, or said there's a limitation on applying SURGE to PCs or NPCs.

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>>55238444
The only time there's been a mechanical representation of the chance to SURGE, it's been represented by an Essence(12) test, with bonus dice based on how much of a snowflake you are.

>>55238628
Surpassing what normal humans can do is what cyberlimbs are all about, omae. Or did you forget the augemntation bonuses that take you past racial limits?

is it even possible to use the false face cyber

>>55244002
Are you sure that these are dice pool modifier and not Target Number modifier? Because to me it seems that normal humans roll 6 dice trying to get a Target Number of 12 (so at least one die get 6 and then 6 again), while already special characters have to reach a higher Number

>>55243733
Because it's a fantasy series at heart.

>>55244056
where do you see that?

>>55244066
The magic, and Earthdawn, as mentioned previously.

>>55243517
>Earthdawn

You mean the fantasy game that's not Shadowrun, which is and always has billed itself as cyberpunk with magic?

Elves do not a fantasy story make.

>>55244076
>The magic
presence of magic does not make something a fantasy story, just as absence of magic does not make something not a fantasy story

>>55244087
>>You mean the fantasy game that's not Shadowrun
The fantasy game that's tied with SR, whether you like it or not.

>Elves do not a fantasy story make.
Sure, let's ignore the explicit focus on hooding and "good guy-ing" that the old editions focused on, and all the wacky plots the video games have.

>>55244109
Yes, it does. Not all fantasy stories have magic, but all magic stories are fantasy.

>>55244123
>hooding and good-guying

That's called being a punk. You are fighting the system, and even if the system wins (and it always wins) it's still a fight worth fighting.

Maybe read some cyberpunk stuff and see that it's not all about trenchcoats operating

>>55244045
If someone wants to dig it up and explain how 3e mechanics work, I'll read it at some point. I just have the pdfs for lore reference.

>>55244175
Of course, in Shadowrun, it's framed very much in fantasy.

> (and it always wins)
Neuromancer had it lose. You have a really shallow understanding of an already shallow literary genre. Shame.

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>>55243674
nigga wat

Guys I think your original argument was about overarching plot. Something to connect the random runs or give them meaning.
This is needed no matter if at the end its world changing or just character changing.
Argument: Hatchetman

>>55244242
But Hatchetman had a world AND character changing event.

>>55244176
Okay, so you know how in 5e and 4e you roll dice and look for 5s and 6s on your dice?

In 3e, you could be looking for anything from 2 on up depending on what you were doing. Difficulty (as judged by the GM or by the book) told you want counted as a success.

For numbers over 6, this was where the rule of 6 came in. If a die rolled a 6 and you needed a number that was more than 6 to get a success on that die, then you could re-roll it and add the result to get the 'new' number you rolled. If you got another 6 and somehow needed a number over 12, this could repeat again and again.

Also, because of the rule of 1, any number that was one more than a multiple of 6 couldn't actually be rolled.

>>55244135
saying that everything with magic is a fantasy story is as retarded as saying "ASoIaF is high fantasy because it's not on earth"
Themes make the difference, and while SR had themes of helping those in your vicinity it also had themes of individuals being weak, status quo being unchangeable and society being shit even though it has all this advanced tech, which are themes of cyberpunk

>>55244176
3e mechanics are that you have your dice pool, you roll them and look how many reach or surpass a Target Number. Modifiers generally act on the TN, not the Pool. when a die gets 6 it's noted and rolled again, the result of which is added and repeated if it's 6.
SR4e and 5e have a simplified one where the TN is always 5, dice are usually not rerolled and the dice pool size is varied. This allows one to quickly see how difficult a test would be without a PhD in higher math

So basically you have your Essence as a dice pool (normal people roll 6 dice, augmented obviously less) and try to get any of the dice to come up with two 6s in a row. That's a ~15% to get one hit and obviously less to get more. Being magical, metahuman, non-human or weird make it harder for you to get additional Changeling traits

>>55244341
>saying that everything with magic is a fantasy story is as retarded as saying "ASoIaF is high fantasy because it's not on earth"
Well... it is, by the explicit original definition of high fantasy being "not on earth".

>Themes make the difference, and while SR had themes of helping those in your vicinity it also had themes of individuals being weak, status quo being unchangeable and society being shit even though it has all this advanced tech, which are themes of cyberpunk
Except there are a ton of issues related to the status quo changing for the worse, and fighting to preserve that.

>>55244266
Exactly
From kid around the block to one of the first cyberzombies.
His story was cyberpunk without being to insignificant. It changed the world but it also changed him. Morals colliding, hard choices made, betrayals expected.
It does not need to be fantasy to be on this scale and its not.

>>55244385
But he also became the Big D himself and fights to save the world. It's explicitly fantasy as all fuck.

>>55244002
>When looking at pre-change demographics for changelings, humans are the most likely to SURGE (59 percent), followed by orks (16 percent), trolls (10 percent), dwarfs (9 percent), and elves (6 percent).
Run Faster, page 101. The less magical snowflakery you've already manifested, the more likely you are to have some metagenes waiting for the opportunity to break free.

Humans aren't just the most likely, they're more likely than everything else combined.

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>>55244212
>Neuromancer had it lose

>thinking that Wintermute was the system, and not Tessier-Ashpool/the Turing Police

You have a really shallow understanding of an not particularly shallow book. Shame.

>>55244399
>It's explicitly fantasy as all fuck.
In the sake of clearing that up, what is in your kind something that makes something fantasy?

>>55244479
>not particularly shallow
No understanding of the economy, technology, or society. It's literally only good for its aesthetics. Unless, of course, you actually take the leftist kool-aid seriously.

>>55244491
Fantastical elements. By this reckoning, Neuromancer, too, is fantasy.

>>55244503
So if i put olive oil in my soup i'm making salad?
Since its main element of salad

>>55244555
>food analogy
back to /v/ with you

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>>55244503
>Fantastical elements. By this reckoning, Neuromancer, too, is fantasy.

OK, so literally everything that is not a completely accurate biography is now classified as fantasy, because all involve 'fantastical elements', a broad phrase that includes everything from unicorns farting cyberarms to true love. Good to know we've all been wasting posts arguing with an idiot.

>>55244566
>idiot
That's literally what fantasy is about. Not my fault you're a retard who thinks a magical setting with a ton of magic in it isn't fantasy because some marketing team billed it as cyberpunk.

>>55244341
>a PhD in higher math
Nigga, just take the chance of success per die, the number of dice, the needed successes, and the possible combinations.
It's high-school level math, though I can't blame somebody who clearly dropped out to know it.

>>55244564
>food analogy
>/v/

>>55244589
anon, you are basically saying everything written is a novel, since that's the main part of a novel.
It's a definition that is absolutely useless

>>55244596
sure, but can you do that with each test, instantly determining what the difficulty should be based on their dice pools?

>>55244628
>sure, but can you do that with each test, instantly determining what the difficulty should be based on their dice pools?
Uh, yes? It's two steps. How in the world could somebody not do that quickly?

>>55244399
>explicitly
You don't know what they word means.

>fantasy as all fuck
Shadowrun is a Cyberpunk setting with Fantasy genre trappings, not the other way around.

>>55244589
What the shit man
It haven't been even an year and you are making Tzvetan Todorov roll in his grave

>>55244628
>>anon, you are basically saying everything written is a novel, since that's the main part of a novel.
I'm saying books with a wordcount of 50,000 words of more are novels, because that's what novels are.

>>55244668
Other way around, champ. SR is fantasy with cyberpunk trappings.

>>55244706
>I'm saying books with a wordcount of 50,000 words of more are novels, because that's what novels are.
Omae, what the fuck do you understand as "fantastical elements"? Because your definition seems to be different to ours
>inb4 "things that are in fantasy works"

>>55244741
>Omae, what the fuck do you understand as "fantastical elements"?
Magic and magical elements, for one very easy example. There are other elements to consider, like alternative settings, but that's pretty irrelevant. SR, from the outset, was made cyberpunk solely so that it'd stand out next to D&D. It definitely took on more trappings as it grew through its editions, but at heart it's still a fantasy setting, which is the only point I was trying to make.

For the record, I'm not differentiating between 'high' and 'low' or whatever brand of fantasy you champion or curse. I'm only talking about what I consider to fall under the ridiculously large umbrella of fantasy, which also includes Scifi.

>>55244790
>ridiculously large umbrella of fantasy, which also includes Scifi.
?????
anon, SF isn't fantasy it's fiction

>>55244790
>Sci-Fi is fantasy
pack it up boys
nothing more to say here, we are done for the today

>>55244875
How pedantic can you get? This is the sort of goofiness SR itself makes fun of with the Psionic tradition.

>>55244896
See above.

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Could you guys rate my drugsam? This is my first time making one. Thanks in advance for any help!

>>55244706
>Other way around, champ. SR is fantasy with cyberpunk trappings.
Aight, you know what? Think whatever you want. Just know that there's not a single person here who agrees.

>>55244991
Put some fucking points into Etiquette

>>55245059
I'd agree that it's somewhere in the middle of cyberpunk and urban fantasy.

>>55245081
Sure, but would you not agree that it's pure fantasy on the ground that apparently cyberpunk is also fantasy?

>>55244991
I'd probably want a little higher Logic - it's used for resisting Mental Addictions. I don't really see what you could safely tank for that, though. What was your Attribute Priority? Because it should probably be A for a drug character.

You should have points in Chemistry to brew your own shit if/when you need Pharmceutical-grade shit on demand. If you end up with a higher Logic, it's an easy dip into First Aid/Medicine too, to be the pharmacy-guy of the group.

>Neoteny
What're you trying to be, some kind of knockoff gnome?

I'd probably take more auto-injectors, just for other optional boosters. After all, you can be rocking Jazz in one and something to boost your Intuition in the other. Never overlook the Social-boosting joy that is Novacoke either. After all, what's more cyberpunk than cocaine? Just remember to never mix it with Jazz - very bad reaction.

>Gel Packs
Enjoy being knocked flat on your ass fucking constantly.

>Stick-n-Shock
Personally, I'd got for Gel Rounds. Knockdown is a better debuff, and Gel Rounds deal better damage.

>Squatter
Fix your shit, that's unacceptable.

>Wears a mask most of the time.
>Looks like a little boy underneath.
>Total fucking psychopath.
What're you, fucking 12?

All in all, I'd give it a 5/7. It has some glaring flaws, but mostly it's fine.

>>55244991
What >>55245070 you fucking animal

>>55245104
If you define cyberpunk as fantasy, yeah. I wouldn't though, it's different.

>>55245204
good, then it seems that that one anon is still alone

>>55245153
>What was your Attribute Priority? Because it should probably be A for a drug character.
CBEAD. Think I should sacrifice some skills so I can get more points? I like the idea of being a pharmacy guy.

>I'd probably take more auto-injectors, just for other optional boosters.
I would too, but I was running low on funds by the end. I figure that's the kind of thing I can get more of in-game.

>Enjoy being knocked flat on your ass fucking constantly.
I can take them off if I need to, right?

>Fix your shit, that's unacceptable.
What's wrong? He's a scummy druggie.

>What're you, fucking 12?
I can worry about problems like fleshing him out later.

>>55245295
>I can take them off if I need to, right?
So you are saying that you have a piece of armor that is most dangerous to you while fighting
And that you want to take it off while fighting?
Why have it at all

>I like the idea of being a pharmacy guy.
with your stats you aren't

>I can worry about problems like fleshing him out later.
anon, we are not telling you to flesh him out
we are telling you to get him behind a shed and release him from his misery
in other words: You should take some Used WR 3

>>55245295
>Think I should sacrifice some skills so I can get more points?
Honestly, I'm not much of an Edge guy. I'd chop Metatype to C. Buy Edge back up from 0 to 1 if you ever have to burn it and mostly just ignore it aside from that. Definitely get Attributes up to at least B somehow, though. Your key skills for being Doctor Runner are:
>Chemistry (lets you home-brew)
>First Aid (for fieldwork)
>Medicine (for downtime)

If you're going to be investing in Chemistry, Demolitions is a good skill for synergy. Cook yourself up some plastic explosives, make knockout gas bombs, that kind of shit.

>I figure that's the kind of thing I can get more of in-game.
Fair.

>I can take them off if I need to, right?
With an Armorer check and tools, maybe. They're permanently attached, but you can remove the mod.

>What's wrong? He's a scummy druggie.
If you're that tight on cash, it can work until your first payday, but you're going to want somewhere safe to store your drug stash and/or your brewing kit. He's not some drug-addicted squatter, he's a professional shadowrunner who uses drugs as his extra edge, am I right?

>>55245153
>Personally, I'd got for Gel Rounds. Knockdown is a better debuff
Prone barely does jack shit in 5e. If you're dealing with ranged combat electricity is a far better debuff effect, but SnS just isn't very good compared to the Static Shaft that (cross)bows can slap onto it.

>>55245474
> If the character is wounded and attempting to stand, he must succeed in a Body + Willpower (2) Test to do so (wound modifers apply to this test).
Prone is pretty fucking great if the goal's to lay a guard out on their ass and then just leave them there.

>>55245426
>I'd chop Metatype to C.
Metatype's already at C. C Metatype, B Attributes, E Magic, A Skills, D Money.

>If you're going to be investing in Chemistry, Demolitions is a good skill for synergy. Cook yourself up some plastic explosives, make knockout gas bombs, that kind of shit.
Noted.

>With an Armorer check and tools, maybe. They're permanently attached, but you can remove the mod.
Guess I'll take the gel packs off and hope 15 armor is enough.

>>55245494
If you're gonna wound a guy bad enough he fails a BOD + WIL (2) you honestly coulda just not used Gel Rounds and he'd never get up again for an entirely different reason. Not to mention a prone guard can still shoot your ass.

>>55245522
Most guards are going to have between 6 and 8 BOD+WIL. You get one of them rocking a -1 or -2 Wound Modifier from the Stun damage you just laid into them and they're probably staying down.

Stick-n-Shock, on the other hand, have a dramatic damage penalty - enough so that you might stop even having post-soak damage with handguns - and without 4e's drop-and-flop Electricity effect, they're extremely mediocre at actually incapacitating opponents.

Not only do Gel rounds deal more Stun damage faster, they have a great 'shoot someone and then run away' debuff, and they're super cheap for when you just want to spray and pray.

Stick-n-Shock were the king motherfuckers in 4e, but they're over-priced and under-performing in 5e.

>but SnS has -5 AP, compared to Gel's +1, so they do the same amount of damage
Sure, against well-armored enemies who don't have Nonconductivity. But if you're shooting a lightly-armored target like a security Hellhound or shooting at someone with Nonconductivity in their security vest because runners with tasers and SnS is a very real threat, Gel jumps right back into the lead. SnS is, at absolute best, against enemies with 5+ armor and 0 points of nonconductivity, at mere parity compared to Gel Rounds.

>>55245610
Right, so your team is lightly wounding guys that are well-armored and have nonconductivity, and then just leaving them behind, conscious, armed, and with all their gear, and this is somehow working for you.

I totally believe you, Chummer.

Not to mention statistically a 8 BOD/WIL guy with a -2 wound modifier still rolls 6 dice, averaging out to the 2 hits he needs to get up, if, for some reason, he actually decides to waste an action on getting up, instead of shooting you, which he can do without issue.

>>55245672
Where are you that, after knocking someone on their ass and continuing to run, someone still has a bead on you instead of you having hauled around a corner or down a flight of stairs or some shit? Do a lot of your firefights happen in open rooms without walls or waist-high items obscuring the ability to shoot people?

>averaging out to the 2 hits
Meaning that, at that point, they've got a 50% chance of getting up and a 50% chance of not. That's the breaking point between one and the other.

And if they're BOD+WIL 6, that's 4 dice.

And again, even if they do have heavy armor AND don't have Nonconductivity, the best that SnS is getting is parity.

So, instead of knocking a motherfucker flat on his ass, giving you time to run through a doorway, around a corner, or otherwise run the fuck away from his ass, you're dealing, what, a once-per-entire-goddamn-round -5 to Initiative? That gives you an average of 50% of dropping them at most 1 IP, and leaves them still standing up with a clear view and line of fire, still able to run after you at their full and normal movement speed since that's unaffected by Initiative.

The point of this kind of less-lethal ammunition isn't to chip away in an extended firefight, it's to lay someone out long enough for you to get the fuck out of the site before HTR arrives. SnS might - might - have a small advantage in extended firefights against large groups of opponents, where over the course of many combat turns and many targets you eventually rob them of several cumulative IPs.

But when it comes to actually dropping one or two dudes long enough to make your getaway, Gel Rounds have a much stronger role to play.

That, and SnS cost literally more than triple what Gel Rounds cost, though ammo costs are usually fairly trivial for shadowrunners.

The only situation where I'd pack SnS over Gel is if I think we're going to be running into large numbers of drones, and that's just because SnS deals Physical damage to robots.

>>55243768
NeoCat is okay.


Slamm-O is awful

>>55245819
>Where are you that, after knocking someone on their ass and continuing to run, someone still has a bead on you instead of you having hauled around a corner or down a flight of stairs or some shit? Do a lot of your firefights happen in open rooms without walls or waist-high items obscuring the ability to shoot people?
Unless you're literally in the streets and running away I don't see how there isn't a throng of previously knocked down guards converging on you from behind at all times, not to mention the buddies they phoned ahead to via comms in front of you.

You're also still arguing for SnS, which I already said is inferior for actual ammo as opposed to the bolt/arrow versions, and I'll disregard your wonky math equating -5 AP and 8 damage that does its effect if even one point gets through to a +1 AP bullet that needs to deal several boxes, but the point is that you keep insisting that Knockdown is an amazing debuff, yet at most those guys are spending a simple to get up (barring a failed test) and then still pursue you at full movement with a simple to spare to cap your ass.

If you're literally exclusively dealing with a getaway situation where you're running a path to safe escape and never have to double back ever it would be safer for you to use a complex on a sprint test and not shoot at the guys than to take the time to actually shoot them.

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>>55245908
Slamm-O used to be good before they changed him (and his appearance) and even fucked up the name of his Black Slugger (because Slamm-O! is a goddamn baseball fan, you illiterate fucks, that's why he uses that name) to "Blackhammer".

Netcat is just pretty awful in general and usually wrong even when arguing with Clockwork.

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Haven't played Shadowrun in a little bit, but I'm counting the Sessions until I'm ready to move my group back to the 6th world. So glad for /srg/

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Houserule idea:

Essence costs of all 'ware reduced by 30% across the board for mundanes only.

Awakened still pay full, by the book essence cost.

Does this fix the mundane/awakened gap?

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>>55246287

>>55244991
>Neoteny
Isn't that a surge quality? I might be wrong.

>>55245295
>What's wrong? He's a scummy druggie.
No one wants to work with a dude who lives in a rucksack and spends all day doing drugs, and who is also
>A complete psycopath

Also not a single addiction quality? I mean I know you've got resistances but if that's all you do all day every day geez.

>>55246323
You're forgetting availability, chummer.

Also mundane/awakened gap is 50% meme at this point and plagued by misinformation and ignorance in how it actually plays out.

The one thing that everyone can agree one though is that 'ware costs too much, is hard to get, and probably should have better grades available at creation.

>>55246330
>Isn't that a surge quality? I might be wrong.
Yeah, but basically all the metasapient racial stuff is also SURGEable, Neoteny just happens to be the Gnome one.

>>55246323
What the fuck gap are you talking about?

The only 'gap' is that an Adept can load up on 'ware and then spend their Karma on Initiating. Pure adepts are, point for point, worse than pure Street Samurai, especially out of chargen.

The fix? You know how Adepts are capped in how many levels of a power that they can have by their Magic score? Have Essence loss lower that cap.

So, someone has 4 Magic and 4 Essence? They can only have 2 levels of powers.

That'll fix Adepts loading up on 'ware right fucking quick.

If you want to close the gap even further, you need to make 'ware cheaper to get post-chargen. One of the big problems is that an Adept can Initiate 3 times before a Street Samurai's saved up enough money to actually buy an upgrade. You either need to slash 'ware prices or give very large run paydays.

>>55246442
>Adept can Initiate 3 times before a Street Samurai's saved up enough money to actually buy an upgrade
This usually varies hugely by individual GM and their reward structure, unfortunately. And also the whole "muh 30% discount every time" really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really fucking doesn't work that way. Especially the initiatory group one, but the schooling aswell is 10k Nuyen and 5 extra weeks not counting initiation itself each time you do it. Still not as bad as the Karma cost and shit involved in the group, though, but generally the whole "muh discount" shit is like saying you can get a pimped out Betaware cyberarm by walking into the nearest corner clinic.

>>55246477
Man, it ain't even about the discount. Just based on the suggested reward rates, an Adept goes - at absolute fucking most - 3 runs before their first Initiations.

By those same suggested rewards, do you know what a Street Samurai can afford by then? Fuckall. Maybe some Standard-Grade Titanium Bone Lacing, if he's really lucky and didn't accrue any extra expenses on the run.

He's certainly not getting another level of Wired Reflexes, while the Adept can easily have just picked up their 3rd level.

Street Samurai start way, way stronger out of chargen than Adepts do, but Adepts just have a way stronger rate of advancement post-chargen, unless your GM deviates hard away from the book's suggested reward rates.

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>>55246323
Not quite, unfortunately. Cybernetic/Awakened runners were always fairly matched in their usefulness. The real gap is between Cyborgs/Awakened runners and un-enhanced mundane runners. Giving mundanes a reduced essence cost for cyberware only makes this gap worse.

Awakened runners's strengths were in their versatility and the fact that they have no ceiling for improvement so long as the Karma keeps rolling in.

Cyborgs' strength was how stupid-good they could be in their chosen field. They have a semi-hard ceiling in the form of their limited Essence which would obviously keep them from just getting infinitely more powerful like mages/adepts, but their strength also lies in the fact that their improvements are more dependent on monetary resources, a much more common, consistent, and controllable resource for a runner than Karma. The discount on cyberware would raise that ceiling a little, along with their ability to get their hands on ware with improved grades.

Mundanes suffer the short end of the stick though. At best they are Edge/Skill monkeys who can avoid some particular traps and security that are looking for people who can fire bullets from their nipples and summons the ghosts of Christmas past/present/future. With no cyberware to be deactivated and no Magic to be nullified, they are as good as their own natural talents. But the ceiling for their dice pools holds them back. The only way they can improve is through Karma. They have no way to deal with magical threats, they can't hit as hard (or get hit as hard) as a cyber'd up Gillette, and they will be outclassed in social tests by any half-assed Pornomancer Adept.

Mundanes have it rough and something needs to be done to make them viable.

>>55246554
Yeah, initiative is the big issue (though adepts also basically have to pay those initiations in opportunity cost to get theirs up) and thus wired reflexes (and 'ware in general) needs to be much cheaper, more vailable and probably eat less essence (via higher grades).

I think it would be nice if Adepts didn't have to burn >50% of their shit on having initiative either, and they just made Initiation a harder and rarer thing, and shifted focus to Foci (no pun intended) more, which all in all also balance out the usefulness of Nuyen vs. Karma a bit more for adepts, while also doing all the 'ware discounts and availability changes.

Basically neither archetype should have to burn all their shit on basic functionality like initiative.

>>55246599
>consistent
>monetary resources
Karma's the consistent thing. You're definitely getting Karma after every run. But if you do charity runs or get stiffed by a Johnson, you ain't getting paid that day.

>>55246599
>Mundanes have it rough and something needs to be done to make them viable.
Why? Mundanes aren't intended to be viable. That's like wanting Commoner to be a player class in D&D.

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>>55246599
>makes post about making mundanes viable in a world full of magic and cyborgs
>posts a GITS image with it
>its not pic related

>>55246633
And Karma is only used to advance, while nuYen is used for repairs, bribing, lifestyle, upgrades and most other things
Adepts never have the situation "damn I wanted to initiate, but guess I need to buy XYZ"

>>55246674
>Adepts never have the situation "damn I wanted to initiate, but guess I need to buy XYZ"
Except for Skills, foci bonding, positive/negative qualities, attributes.

>>55246690
That's a false equivalency. That's the equivalent of a Street Samurai having to struggle between buying a car, a gun, or a cyberarm.

What he's talking about is that you're not going to get a SIN burned and have to buy a new one with Karma. You're not going to blow through your stash of grenades and have to dip into your rainy day Karma to get some new explosives. You're not going to get your car shot to hell and have to choose between being homeless, losing your car, or having to Initiate 'next year, maybe.'

Unexpected expenses exist that can and will blast your bank account out from underneath you, but Karma consistently, reliably, and more or less exclusively gets used to advance your character.

>>55246633
>You're definitely getting Karma after every run

Yeah, but you're gonna have to do a dozen runs before you save up enough Karma to improve anything that wasn't already a tertiary skill/dump stat

>>55246653
Purists exist and there should be options available for those who aren't born into Magic or are a toenail-clipping away from being a cyber zombie.

>>55246734
What I'm talking about the fact is this:

An Adept has 2 ways to gain stats/skills with Karma, and no way to gain them from Nuyen.

A Cyborg has a way to gain stats/skills from Karma, and a way to gain stats/skills from Nuyen.

It's also a false equivalency to say "after 3 runs the adept is initiating and the streetsam still can't buy a 'ware upgrade" .... because the Sam still got fucking Karma, and still upgraded his skills WHILE earning those nuyen. The adept is spending their Karma on their Karma upgrade track, which, since they lack a nuyen upgrade track, offers some more advantageous options than the regular one.

And yes, the Adept also earns Nuyen, but he also has all the expenses you mentioned, too.

>>55246762
>Yeah, but you're gonna have to do a dozen runs before you save up enough Karma to improve anything that wasn't already a tertiary skill/dump stat
You're going to have to do, at most, three runs before you can Initiate. Which is the real point. Karma is super useful to Adepts but not very useful to Street Samurai, whereas Nuyen is the goddamn lifeblood of Street Samurai but an Adept can only buy so many Foci and Guns before they're just blowing it all on a sweet car and lifestyle.

The Street Samurai's going to need a dozen runs before he's getting Wired Reflexes 3, but the Adept is Initiate Grade 3 and working on 4, with a full handful of Weapon and Qi Foci to boot by that point.

>>55246763
>A Cyborg has a way to gain stats/skills from Karma, and a way to gain stats/skills from Nuyen.
Yeah, no, they kinda don't. It's so expensive to actually buy up Skills/Attributes that it's functionally impossible in a normal-length campaign.

Unless you're talking about buying a dump-stat up to being barely-average, in which case what's the fucking point?

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>>55246653
This. Complaining that normal people are left behind is missing the point so hard you come around and hit yourself in the back of the head. Edge abuse is possible, but you don't need to be a total normie for that (and in setting, it's pretty weird for someone to be a total purity sue without magic). Normal people aren't supposed to keep up with people who have cyber or magic boosting them past normal limits; that's kinda the whole point.

>>55246762
>there should be options available for those who aren't born into Magic or are a toenail-clipping away from being a cyber zombie
There's lots of options. You don't need to go 6 MAG, or 0 MAG 0.001 ESS to have a role in a party of shadowrunners. Lots of deckers and riggers, for example, get a few bits of 'ware to help them out, have some extra Edge, and do just fine. The option for playing 0 MAG 6 ESS is cheese build abusing Edge and drugs, and even then it doesn't get far, just like people with no special talents tend not to get far in the Sixth World. What more could you possibly do with an idea that is deliberately flying in the face of the game (man meets magic and machine)?

>>55246827
>Yeah, no, they kinda don't. It's so expensive to actually buy up Skills/Attributes that it's functionally impossible in a normal-length campaign.
I mean there's a couple useful things you can do. Buying something cheap so you don't default on it, buying some okay qualities or buying off bad ones, buying specializations or a martial arts technique.

The issue to me is again that the 'ware upgrade track is too expensive and needs to be more accessible, while at the same time I think Initiation needs to be less accessible and be replaced with a stronger design around Foci.

Make initation rarer and harder and feature foci more prominently (maybe drop it to Force*2 for Qi Foci or something, but no more) because:
1. They establish a more balanced scheme of usefulness of both Nuyen and Karma to the adept (and also offer a discount option via Mentor Spirit with good RP consequences)
and
2. You can only bind as many Foci as you have MAG, which discourages cyberadepts because the essence spending will lower their (max) MAG and thus their abilitiy to bind foci, especially if initiation is more difficult, and suddenly you have balanced the hard cap of essence that cyborgs face with a hard cap of Essence-capped MAG the adepts face in their foci binding.

>>55246827
>You're going to have to do, at most, three runs before you can Initiate.

I know this all depends on the GM, but in my own experience I've found that nuyen is much more abundant than Karma, especially if runs take multiple sessions to complete.

>>55246869
I think "normal" people pretty much means Bioware that enhances mental stats in Shadowrun. I mean even your average middle management corp guy has an implanted commlink and a datajack.

Many corps like Mitsuhama encourage their employees to get augmented with subsidy packages and even deals to get their children augmented for an advantage in learning and education.

>>55246909
>I mean even your average middle management corp guy has an implanted commlink and a datajack.
And a Sleep Regulator.

I'd imagine well over half of all wageslaves have Sleep Regulators, whereas SINless are like, "Shit, do you know how many months' rent that would cost me? No fucking thanks."

>>55246909
That is true. It just feels like there is no way for a mundane to be a credit to the team without resorting to the extremes of going through an almost-full cybernetic body replacement.

>>55247005
Mundane Deckers work out pretty well. The dice pool bonuses they get from augmentation tend to be fairly minor, and you can use a Trode Net instead of a datajack. As long as you have minmaxed attributes/skills, plenty of Edge, and a stash of drugs, you're golden!

RCC Riggers too. Not so much Control Rig Riggers for, well, for obvious reasons.

Does anyone have the 5e San Francisco lore book pdf? Want to run a game for new players that's not just Seattle/Japan/Denver, and mid-reconstruction SF sounds perfect.

>>55247124
I think that book is in the pastebin. I keep seeing it and hoping its the Metropole one.

>>55247162
Sick, thanks anon. I hope it's not a shlock setting.

>>55244326
>Also, because of the rule of 1, any number that was one more than a multiple of 6 couldn't actually be rolled.
Liar. It's actually the multiple of six that can't be rolled, because the die always explodes. Though you're meant to stop when you hit the TN, so you can get to 6 that way. It's just probabilistically identical to TN 7.

>>55247162
>I keep seeing it and hoping its the Metropole one.
I know that feeling. I want the Metropole one desperately.

>>55247124
I'd love a decent Japan sourcebook. Best I have to work with is the semi-abandoned JIS project the japanese player community put together.

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Is a country wanderer going into the cities to find a cure for his life threatening disease appropriate for shadowrun?
I'm considering running an adept with that one quality for a degenerative disease that may kill you at any time.

>>55247462
And why is he spending his limited time left on this Earth committing corporate espionage for cash? It's the only real question you need to answer for whether or not a character works as a shadowrunner.

>>55247346
Wasn't that leaked ages ago on 7ch?

>>55247484
It's the only way he'll get into all sorts of weird ass corporate labs without dying?

>>55247488
I wouldn't know. Have the link?

>>55247506
Lots of corps will gladly escort you into a variety of labs if you're an Awakaned making himself available for experimentation.

>>55247527
WITHOUT dying, anon.

>>55247541
They'll probably even slap you with a Corporate Limited SIN just because Awakened are a rare resource good to have around, really.