Flames of War General: Salty Russians Edition

lord have mercy, battlefront is slow at answering emails

>around a month ago, buy infantry and 5 models are just not included, countless more are very badly damaged or miscast
>email BF about it, they take 2 weeks to answer
>they ask me to fill out a damaged item form, that's fine, I send the info right back
>8 days later they respond saying it will be in the post
>that was 6 days ago. received another email just now, "ETA is roughly 4-5 weeks on that item. We can send you missing items at that time."


do they only have one guy answering emails? I answer 100+ emails at my job in a day. Do they really get that much email traffic that it automatically takes over a week to answer an email? Or would it just be better to phone them

>>55155940
>Yes, you are. READ the changes before griping (it's fucked up enough without exagregations and strawmen)
>- Your Red Banner Strelk is (I assume) heroes, so are unaffected, only non-hero units are hit by this.
>- LW Soviets do not get reduced points, that's "only" for EW soviets (where everything is hit on 2+ already).
Red Banner Strelk is in Barbarossa. It's the only Trained list the soviets got. Now it's conscript, at the same points as it was at trained, AND suffers the "you only get 85% of normal points" thing. Or you could assume that they're talking about the LW one where neither of these apply, in order to keep up your assumption that everyone saying something bad is a moron. Perhaps you should think more before you strawmen people as not reading?

New EW/LW rule changes:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5739

Future product announcements:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=5741

>>55156445
I stand corrected. Forgot that there is in fact Trained soviets in EW. Then your objection is notworthy. (Reasonable interpretation would be for LIU to apply only in LW, but RaW it doesn't).

>>55156512
this is why i love the flames of war community. We shitpost but discussions don't turn into shit flinging insult arguments (usually.) Good on both of you for being discussing the game like adults

>>55156353
>would it just be better to phone them

Apparently so. Facebook and the forum are full of similar complaints.

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Can't wait to play Strelkovy with the new changes!

How do any of the V4 changes fix the US vet blobs the article explicitly mentions as the problem to be solved?

>>55156900
>Since a US Rifle Platoon can be 12 teams strong and a US Armored Rifle Platoon is 14-strong as standard, increasing the point at which Units start making Last Stand tests will either catch units like these, or have very little effect.

Silly anon. They were mentioning the US Vet blobs as things that need to be saved from the nerfing. That's why they decided to write the rule as is.

>>55156797
will do. I guess the long distance charges to new zealand are worth it if it doesnt take so long just to get a reply to an email

>>55156976
They should have a US or UK customer service line. Just make a post in the product discussion or on FB and they should redirect you to it.

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What did he mean by this?

>>55157731
Is Phil actually an employee of battlefront or just one guys brother that they send out?

>>55157811
Company owner.

>>55157731
What the fuck

>>55158542
No that's Pete Sumovich. Phil is head designer.

>>55158570
well get some someone to design Phil a new head

>>55158646
People have car accidents all the time. Brake lines practically cut themselves these days.

>>55158542
Lead game designer. Not the owner.

>>55159822
How the fuck does he not know his own rules?

>>55159874
He doesn't have to? If people bought your stuff even thought you didn't do any fuckin' work - would you bother actually doing your job?

>>55158646
we have top men on it.

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You have been visited by the komissar of protection.
If you reply to this post with "Swim true sweet schwimmwagen" you will be protected from the next rules update or gulag trip.
>typing "cheers" will negate this immunity

>>55160887
>Because I just don't care anymore

Swim true sweet schwimmwagen

>>55160887
Swim true sweet schwimmwagen

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>>55158757

>>55160887
>Swim true sweet schwimmwagen

CHEERS

>>55160887
Swim true sweet schwimmwagen
No kulak for my gulag

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>late to the party, as usual.

I find it odd that after 15 years BF's designers are thinking about making Hen&Chick have nothing to do with your ability to shoot.
who came in and shit-kicked their entire design philosophy?
X-Wing?
....it was nice to not be conscript to-hit in the nastier late stages of the war....

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He actually believe this.

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>>55164450
C
H
E
E
R
S

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>>55164450
shit. the funny thing is, in a STRATEGIC game this would be a viable approach to varied and opposing doctrines. but in a tactical objective grabbing game, it makes the Soviet forces utterly disposable.

>>55164662
chill out, it's just a game, in the end, we have this.

also: try using flamesofwar.com right now. so much live update.
hahahaa.
...i was going to point something out, but here, have a link...you'll need it:
>http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=102&art_id=5741
so, seeing how BF executes things,
This means:
--September / October: more MW US stuff... very likely they are trying to do catch up work to actually release on time.
--November: Hammerfall, maybe new Late War book, maybe Stripes
--Christmas: Stripes, Wildcard DAK 90, The LW Boxes and stuff, maybe Italians?
--January: Italians
--February / March: 8th Army book
--April / May: maybe Eastern Front, maybe Fate of a Nation
--May / June: Eastern Front or Fate of a Nation
--July / August: the 2017 list gets completed.

oh, worth noting the Nam/FOAN stuff is going to be released by Osprey...so, expect possible book dimension sizedown, expect possible exact release date.

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bump

>>55157731
I never got on the 4e band-wagon (just stopped playing), could someone explain this one to me?

>>55168168
Basically some of the 4e changes made Soviets good, so Phil just put out a bunch of errata that specifically targeted the Soviets and nuked them in uselessness, while going out of his way to say those rules wouldn't effect US forces just because.

>>55168623
Wat

>Since a US Rifle Platoon can be 12 teams strong and a US Armored Rifle Platoon is 14-strong as standard, increasing the point at which Units start making Last Stand tests will either catch units like these, or have very little effect.
Holy shit. I always gave them the benefit of doubt about making USA the powerhouse it is, about making Pact shit and NATO really good, about making soviets bad, i always tried to think they were not doing this on purpose but holy fucking shit this is too fucking obvious and too fucking much.
Fuck you Phil, die in a fire.
CHEERS

>>55165468
Man not only disposable, but complete unable to engage in any offensive action. There's no way in hell you can assault with them, or even win an infantry firefight. They are just potato sacks meant to sit in a foxhole and die.

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>>55164450
The memes dont stop coming.

>>55162756
thats some quality cheersposting

I want to start playing FoW 4e LW but I'm
pretty confused with all the books available.
What do I need to buy ? Or I'm better start playing TY instead and wait for BF to update the army books for LW ?

>>55170580
Bail this game, try TY if you want but if i were you i would stay away from this mess until we get a competent designer

>>55170580
You're better off waiting until there's a better 15mm rule set.

>>55170580
See what your local community is playing, but in general TY or MW is in a better place as far as rule coherency. V4 EW/LW is a bit of a mess right now. You'll still get a good grasp of how the rules work for V4 by learning TY, there are only a few minor differences in the core rules.

>>55170580
Play Battlegroup in 6mm
http://www.ghqmodels.com/pages/military/index.asp
Wait for Battlegroup NORTHAG if you want a cold war game like Team Yankee.

Battlefront don't deserve your money for how they have acted especially Phil and since they are still small unlike with GW a boycott will hopefully kill their business and see them out the door as they are a massive cancer to the tabletop community.

>>55171326
Idea for the large unit morale thing:

Each platoon within a company-sized unit counts separately for Unit Last Stand, while still working as a whole unit in all other respects.

>>55170580
Ignore these fuckers, play V4, I don't even know what they're doing on the thread right now.
There are pdfs in the scans database and good advice on starter sets.
For the time being you'll need the ew-lw rulebook and any force book pf ypur choosing.
Maybe stay clear of Soviets until the new rules are either cemented or abandoned though.
>>55171077
>>55171083
>>55171144
>>55171326

>>55171424
Get out of here Phil

>>55171424
It's a dying game, and a dying thread. The sooner it goes, the sooner something better can take it's place.

>>55171460
"no"

>>55170580
Play V4 LW it's fine. And I'm saying this as a soviet player. It's still fun.
TY is good too.
Play both like I do!

>>55171437
You honestly think Phil knows or cares about our little group of fucktards on 4chan?

>>55172767
t. Phil

>>55172767

I'd love to think that he was one of the many people claiming to be Bartosz a while back.

>>55173482
We are all Bartosz.

>>55173506
>>55173482
Indeed we are.

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>>55173506
>>55173657

Speak for yourselves, I identify as an Abrams

>>55173689
I thought the joke was that people identify as an apache helicopter...

>>55175612
Fuck you, bigot. Identity isn't a joke.

>>55175643
I identify as a joke and your post deeply offends me

>>55175643
You can call yourself whatever the fuck you want.

I reserve the right to laugh my ass off about it if it's completely fucking ridiculous.

>>55175643
I identify as a go die horribly and painfully.

>>55171460
c h e e r s s a l t b o i

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>>55171460

kek.
don't you know? the fact we are bitching this heavily means we LOVE Flames of War!
let the edition wars come and pass, or let them continue. It matters little: we will play this game nonetheless.
.....
We shall pursue our game, whatever the cost may be; we will play it in our clubhouses, we will play it on the storefront, we will play it in our homes and in any place that lets us, we will never, never let our dice rest.
and now until forever:
Fuck Hen and Chicks!
For German Space Magic!
For Our Magical Realms!
For all our Spams and our Veterans!

CHEEEEEEEERS!!!!

>>55178442
cheers!

is the Burger holiday of Semi-Communist spirit threatening to shank our typical gaming weekends?

>>55156309
So now that Vietnam has been announced with the addition of the Meme Corp (Yet no South Korea) How much of a parking lot do you expect it to become?

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A Wulfenstein panzergrenadier company

>>55182236
Parking lot is all about the command rules, so, probably likely.

>>55182236
Well the good news is that the T-55 will actually be worth a reasonable amount of points in that era.

>>55184537
No worries, it can still be made spamtrash with shit ratings and special rules.

>>55184537
>>55184602
Historically M41 walker bulldogs win T 55 despite their weak gun and armor. Communists subhuman horde can't stand against mighty free world soldiers.

>>55182825
I can't tell if I like this or not.

>>55180402
For me at least, I'm away on my annual pilgrimage to Dragon*Con.

The place where the idea for our half-assed little podcast came from.

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>me on the left

>>55182825
fucking sweet!

>>55184657
>that wasn't the Historical outcome...see the wiki on Vietnam: the country for babby's 1st details.

>>55185119
please fill us in with updates, oh Chapter Master!

>>55185612
>please fill us in with updates, oh Chapter Master!

Supposedly our glorious Primarch, Guybrarian is here as well, but to be honest, I don't remember if I have his contact info anymore.

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>>55186114
motto senki, kudesai!

>>55186674
>komissar meguminovich tries to motivate the shtrafniki to finish the mine removal

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>>55184657

>>55186949
top kek

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hahhaha, we are all drinking beer and attending cons.
slow threads on weekends mean it is up to me, the mere Anonymous, to keep the thread alive for our master's return.

have a doge

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Soooooo big

>>55189361
It's not that those SAM carriers are big, it's more that the Hetzer is itty bitty.

>>55189804
Or possibly both

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>>55189361
oh. my god. those are like....so Hueg!

>>55189361
They don't look too bad for resin/metal, did they come that clean or have you been working on them?

>>55189361
Those minis look great.

>Flames of war is dying
I feel so vindicated right now.

>>55193791
Project harder, you might get it in HD.

>>55191431

Just imagine having your dick sucked by two Zelda's at once. Heaven.

>>55194545
OMOH

>>55193791
Me too, but also upset. Now the community will be splintered between
>V3
>V4
>V3.5 and V4.5 homebrews that "fix" said versions
>Battlegroup
>Lard Island games
>at least 3 other games, some of which probably aren't out yet
It's going to take years and years for the community to coalesce around something.

>>55194531
Truth hurts doesnt it name faggot?

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>>55193791
>dying

Flames of War is being reborn.
here is the utter fucking truth of it:
--Battlefront are secretly X-wingaboos. they love that game.
--TY took off unexpectedly, less due to the game and more because it was Modern FoW, which 60% of us secretly wanted.
--BF looked at the numbers, and had a thought
--Let's make FoW more like TY, and more like X-wing!
--so
--They did. this is V4.

now, V4 is literally the thing Grognards hate: it's the super-easy version with all the 'modern' tweaks (cards, low pts, etc) designed to reign in new blood.
of course it has haters.
but, oddly, we are also getting new blood. the trickle is small, but it is happening.
think about it
what would you do to get the new blood in larger volumes?
simple: iconic battles we ALL have seen
D-Day. Bastogne. Drive into Germany. and now we have 2 new Stalingrad movies.

there are no new movies about Afrika.

the only reason this isn't moving is, unlike last time, we didn't have WWII films in recent memory backing up BF

THINK about it.
it's a rebirth. with all the blood and gushing babyshit.

>>55195337
>now, V4 is literally the thing Grognards hate: it's the super-easy version with all the 'modern' tweaks
As long as you play MW. If you play EW/LW, you have a soup of conversion rules, rules changes, large imbalances, and just a general mess to deal with.

This ignores also all the V4 MW historical accuracy problems Phill covers with his eternally unnamed "sources", but it's baby edition so whatever

>>55189361
So many geckos, goddamn.

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>>55195797
don't they come in a 3-pack anyway?

also, here, have this.
new version of the V4 Character sheet.
(because the EW/LW conversion requires a character-sheet.)

>>55195337
If it's a rebirth, I think it may have been a bit premature with several complications. MW is a fine game, a game I do plan on getting into. Babby flames or whatever it may be. They are finally adding actual content to the game. The initial release is underwhelming, perhaps a bit premature, but babby is growing.

EW/LW is a clusterfuck, especially if you play soviets. We are getting drastic swings in unit stats that Battlefront are asking the community to beta text. The first days saw confusing wording, important conversions omitted, catch all rules needlessly nerfing units that weren't broken, and contradictions between Phil on the forum and the rules as written. These rules have been left for
the public to beta test which so far has only resulted in a massive shit storm. There is a reason most sane companies run rule changes through a closed group of testers and modify from there. In this case it would filter out some stupid ideas, and refine others in a way dozens of screeching people on the forums cannot. So for the moment EW/LW is playable, but very dependent on what's on the table. It's in the NICU. If Battlefront continue to carelessly handle their product they will lose more players from the game, even MW, than they could ever hope to draw in.

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>>55195941
>beta text

Aww fug

>http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/RulesUpdateSep2017/RulesUpdateSeptember2017.pdf

>Soviet and Late-War Polish Infantry Units (other than Hero Units) are hit on a roll of 2+ if they start the game with more than one Platoon of the following types:

wait, does this mean Polish infantry serving in the British Forces get fucked in the ass as well? they have these types:

• Infantry,
• Motor Rifle
• Rifle

>>55196298
Those don't have Units with more than one platoon. They have Units with more than one Section, but not Units with more than one Platoon.

Yes, their new terminology is confusing as fug.

>>55196490
>>55196298
This is for Soviets only, there's a Red Bear list for Poles.

>>55196490
>>55196640
does it affect the AK?

New player here again:

This was my list I was going to use for my first game tomorrow:

5 Panzer III Tank Platoon(7.5cm)(40)
3 Panzer IV Tank Platoon(short 7.5cm)(30)
1 Tiger Heavy Tank Platoon (29)
99/100 Points


I've revised my list for my first game tomorrow. I decided to trade the Pz IV long barrels (saving 12 points) to make adjustments to the overall list after I grabbed the Kfz 221/222 box and the Kfz 10/4 AA guns.

4 Sd Kfz 221 & 222 Light Scout Troop (3)
2 Sd Kfz 10/4 (2cm) Light AA Platoon(4)
1 Tiger Heavy Tank Platoon (29)
5 Panzer III Tank Platoon(7.5cm)(40)
4 Panzer IV Tank Platoon(short 7.5cm)(24)
100 points

I think this is a much stronger list and should prove highly useful. The short barrel Pz IVs can drop an artillery barrage if needed, can fight in conjunction with the Pz IIIs up front, the Tiger can blow the shit out of things, and the 2cm guns on the AA and the Kfz 221/222s can do work digging infantry out of holes.

How's my list for a new player?

>>55189804
>>55190052
They are 9cm long. Biggest model I've seen except armored trains.

>>55191582
I boiled and brushed the reain part to cean its greasy surface. Fortunately as being newest product their mold looks sharp.

>>55195906
2 in a pack and you can use maximum of 4.

>>55195337
As a veteran 40k player I am very happy that I can make a list and play an army I can get excited about with only a net investment of... About $200, and field what would be a full and well rounded list. Dropping that much on Guardsmen (in the most cheap manner possible) would get me only enough points for a relatively small force (mostly just conscripts, one tank, and a Lord Commissar).

I'm also very thankful to not have to sit there looking at a rulebook for hours pouring over fiddly little chickenshit points milking every last diddle I can find to add 15 points here and remove 10 points there trying to squeeze myself as close as I can to 1500 points.

>>55195941
>>55196298
Well, not surprising the wheraboos came out in force to nerf the soviets (because "10 to 1") and polish (because "why dare those dirty poles to continue fighting?") into oblivion.

>>55197140
>tfw you like to cuddle your K98k and softly whisper into her barrel
>"Hush meine Liebe. Sie bedeuten nicht, die schlechten Worte..."

>>55197573
Careful she doesn't get excited.

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/NVA/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mG3BvkT6YQ

>>55196959
>As a veteran 40k player I am very happy that I can make a list and play an army I can get excited about with only a net investment of... About $200,

Flames has always been reasonably priced to get into, depending on the list. Back when Open Fire was a thing, it was pretty easy to get a german force for at or less than $150.

> looking at a rulebook for hours pouring over fiddly little chickenshit points milking every last diddle I can find to add 15 points here and remove 10 points there trying to squeeze myself as close as I can to 1500 points.

It really wasn't that bad. You get your core options set up, then at the very end you top off points. The 100 point system leads to weird situations where a unit can cost the same price as another unit that is better in every single way. They should have just divided all points by 5, which would have given us a 300 point system without any lost point resolution.

>>55196885
I think you made the right call by losing the long 75 Panzer IVs. The static AA guns are okay I guess, just not very flexible. You need to deploy them on an objective to defend it. I'd leave your Panzer III's in reserves if you play a mission with reserves. You'll be able to bring everything else on.

Longer term, I think you want to bring 50mm short barreled Panzer IIIs to further increase your numbers. Basically, you have the tiger there in case there is any heavy allied armor. The tiger is much more point efficient against things like Grants and Shermans than it is against light tanks and infantry. Therefore more lighter AT guns would be best to address light to medium armor.

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>>55196885
Sorry I didn't see that your AA was in a halftrack, so ignore the part about it being not flexible

>>55196885
Looking at that list, you seem to be missing a HQ platoon.

I might personally go for some of the cheaper Panzer III types, but that´s personal preference.
I like having some more tanks on the field, especially against Crusaders or Stuarts.

Seems decently servicable otherwise.
Just make sure you maximise the firepower of that Tiger.

>>55199356
The Pz IIIs are 1/4 split for the HQ platoon.

If I trade out the short 7.5 for the short 5, that opens up 15 more points. I could get 3 more Pz IIIs for that, bringing me up to 8 in total. Or I could grab a few more AA guns, or maybe a few Lorannes (which I don't have the cards for so I don't know the costs). I could also probably grab some Pz IIs for an OP post so the short Pz IVs can actually fire safely. Could grab Marders too.

>>55200920
I would advise getting as much AT9 into the list as possible: the short 5cm might work OK against shitty British tanks, but it will not cut it against the new US stuff, not to mention when Soviets arrive T34s will laugh at AT8.

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>>55201495
T-34s have been reduced to FA 4 to represent subpar Soviet metallurgy.

Cheers

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How do you read the rules for No HE and Slow Firing?

Does that mean things like infantry and guns are easier or harder to hit?

Does that mean the moving chance to hit is reduced or improved? Or is there something about moving that reduces the chance to hit?

>>55201861
If you add 1 to hit 4+ becomes 5+. So it makes hard to hit.

>>55201884
Okay, thanks. So the 2.8 guns are complete trash. I wish I could just get 4 222s and have them look the same. The box only shows 4 222s and the MG turret for the 221 I almost hacked the barrel off thinking it was slag. I also wish this was a plastic only kit.

>>55201910
The 2.8cm is actually decent, AT 7 means it can hurt things. It's certainly much better than the Boys, which is a non-threat to virtually everything.

>>55201945
Yeah but I lose the MGs on the 221s if I want those. So it's hot garbage because the one thing I use the cars for is digging out filthy commies/brits/yanks from a fox hole.

>>55201982
Man remember in V3 when you used Recce for reconnaissance?

>>55201982
Then it's either shit or shit, because MGs are fucking awful at killing dug in infantry

>>55202932
Volume of dice?

>>55202993
Still need a 6+ firepower check to dig them out. V4 made it so the only real viable way to dig out the ticks is artillery.

>>55202993
To kill one single dug in infantry stand, you would have (assuming 4+ to hit, either 2+ and concealed GTG, or 3+ and concealed. This is nice, mind you): 1/2 to hit, 1/3 of these aren't saved, and 1/6 of these actually kill: 1/36 to kill, or 36 shots of MG will on average kill one stand. That's 2 Sd.Kf. 221s firing for 6 turns.

Is it just me or are merchantboos super obnoxious?

>Shoehorn Israel into everything pls! Jewish engineering undedable.

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>>55203145

>>55203145
Huh? Context?

I can understand doing the Arab-Israeli Wars, but I get the feeling that's not what you're talking about.

>>55203100
Can the scouts sight in for my Pz IVs to fire arty shots?

6x4 is too small for team yankee

>>55203421
No, the Panzer IVs themselves, your company command unit, or a dedicated observer tank is needed for that.

>>55203455
play 8x4 then cutie

>>55203577
Thanks, store owner cleared that up from the book for me. Was a bit confused if I needed a dedicated observer unit or not. It's cool how my Pz III HQ can spot if needed. They're both 3+ so it doesn't really matter.

I'm just a bit bummed I'm probably not gonna get to play cause he had to fill a 6th slot for a MtG draft event and no one else is here at the store.

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>>55203824
I didn't glue the barrels in my Pz IVs cause I wanna try my 1mm magnets if I can make it neat.

>>55203916
looking sharp

why is the aircraft 1/144th scale instead of 1/100?

>>55204196
It's probably to keep casting sizes consistent and make it easier to transport. You can also say that it scales the flybys as higher altitude.

>>55204196
Because 1/100 aircrafts would be fuckhueg

>>55204196
Planes are hueg.

>>55204196
A Stuka has the following dimensions:
433" length (4.33" for 1:100 scale)
543" wingspan (5.43" for scale)
167" height (1.67" for scale)

That would be a 5.5" wide plane in a game with a Tiger being barely an inch across.

>>55204414
>>55204266
>>55204260
it bugs me that Hinds are bigger than planes, they look good on the table top though

>>55204258
very true, theyre high altitude so the smaller size looks good on the field

>>55202620
To be fair eyes and ears was never an amazing rule and didn't really represent how recce worked. Spearheads is more accurate, though keeping ambush blocking would've been good.

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>>55205062
>ambush denial
yes, stopping ambush being taken from us was the real kick in the ass.
I would consistently lock down all terrain on my side with my original Aufklarungsschwadron.
my old Puma squadrons had a certain phrase some other sod coined for me, and oddly, it stuck....

>still need to finish painting those little shits!

A rule like eyes and ears works in a game with restricted LOS ranges, where recce can report targets to vehicles with worse visibility. It doesn't make sense when an armoured car's pointing out targets to infantry.

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>Get in the halftrack loser
>We're infiltrating germany

>>55209483
>those mold lines

New guy here, how much of a nightmare is it to start playing in this transitionary stage if I have no interest in North Africa? I wanted to do a Normandy 2nd Rangers or an Airborne Company of some kind and some Wehrmacht to fight them. What's conversion like?

>>55210721
You could do a US Normandy army and a lot of that could be used in MW as well. MW seems to be coming along nicely. Americans and Germans should be fine in the LW conversion. Mainly it's Soviets that are getting fucked over.

>>55210721
they're releasing some late war bundles at the end of this year with a crumpled late war rulebook in the box

V4 was so unnecessary. Communities loved V3. It did the job and was really fun. It has its issues, but the core rules were not one of them.

V4 killed Flames of War in my community. Our tournaments have been cancelled and ppl have sold their armies because nobody wants to play any more.

The sad thing is that this was so unnecessary. If Phil left LW alone and did not push out the ubplaytested garbage of v4, ppl would still be buying their LW catologue. Now, nobody is buying EW or LW because there is no game to play.

V4 is unbalanced, unfair, and with the new band aids it is now horribly complex and difficult to understand. We have band aids on top of band aids.

This is what Phil must do:
1. Immediately apologize and retraxt v4, declaring that v3 will be the Official rulea dor EW and LW. This will stem the bleed of playera.
2. Begin playtesting a proper v4. Morale should remain the V3 standard, because we see that changing from this just isnt worth the squeeze.
3. Release the new V4 EW and LW rules once they are playtested. The original rules werent even proofread let alone playtested.
4. Release a Forces book with new points costs for all EW and LW armies. It is vital that points are fair, and that no army gets invalidated.

We put our faith in BF and they let us down. I would not recommend getting into one of their games, as they have proven to not be friends of their fans.

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>>55211024
>as they have proven to not be friends of their fans.
>being a fan
>setting yourself up for being cheersed

>>55211024
>Our tournaments have been cancelled and ppl have sold their armies because nobody wants to play any more.
LOL you sound like a 40k player

>This is what Phil must do:
>1. Immediately apologize and retraxt v4, declaring that v3 will be the Official rulea dor EW and LW. This will stem the bleed of playera.

C H E E R S

>>55211024
While we're wishing for things, Conscript King Tigers please.

>>55205062
ambush denial is a big part of what I meant

but also, it meant you could do somthing about dug in vets instead of this "hit on 7's" bullshit

and it meant they were worth the points that you pay for them

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>>55211106
PLASTIC TETRARCHS OR WE RIOT
THE BULLYING MUST STOP

>>55211127
>preplanned_medium_mortar_bombardment.jpg

>>55211015
Burst out laughing at this thinking back to other mini rulebooks I have gotten in packaging. Sprues shred chinashit bound rulebooks.

>>55211024
Little dramatic, but I agree. Battlefront changed way more shit than they needed to. MW looks promising, but Ew/LW still has all the special rules bloat plus errata bloat and just overall an unbalanced mess.

>>55211257
remember the first v3 openfire starter set rulebook that fell apart from reading

>>55211309
Oh yes, comrade they kept the same one in the last set of LW starters. So I have 2 of the explodium books. Secret plot by freelance book binders.

>>55203824
Here

Got to play my game after literally waiting around all day patiently.

It was definitely fun to play but I wish I read the rules more closely for setting up artillery. The preplanned bombardment would have been essential to keep the soviet 21 stand platoon off of it while my scouts zoomed up.

Pz IVs without the long guns are very mediocre. The optional artillery strike is nice but AT 7 is god awful.

Pz IIIs with 24" AT 9 HEAT guns are baller.

Tiger is ded killy.

10/4 AA guns did diddly squat all game but babysit and not be useful.

Light scouts sat in a trench stuck on the terrain thanks to their 4+ cross check.

I would have won because my Pz IIIs were ripping into his T-34s and his recon tanks were getting popped left right and cebf

>>55211529
center* wtf is wrong with my phone it wasn't letting me type.

Anyway I think I might run more Pz IIIs with HEAT rather than the Pz IVs because I'd be saving 2 pts per gun comparatively for something viable for attacking other tanks. But the artillery option feels good to still have.

I'm thinking the 222/221 scouts might not be viable though, but that's probably cause I was dumb and didn't try to race them toward the objective.

>>55211567
Also his list compared to mine:

21 infantry stands
10 recon tanks
10 t-34s
1 special character tank

He said he made a 1500 point list cause apparently that's comparable to a 100pt list?

>>55211233
this plz, I want to do a full squadron so bad but I don't have $200 of disposable income. I need more tiny FV tanks that glide in from the skies...

>>55211567
>>55211529

Yeah you never want to try that cross check with you scouts. Always best to go around. What was the mission? They may come in handy in a mission where you can use their spearhead move.

>>55211024
Nothing but baseless bitching.

>>55211024
Phil must also begin making kawaii chibi sculpts of all the basic EW soldiers so we can have cute games of Flames of Hetalia. Pasta!

>>55211857
i want some kawaii chibi Phil fanart

>>55211567
HEAT Pnzer is best panzer. i cannot confirm, but my theogrammatik neuroequasions all point to the glory that is HEAT, Mobile Artillery, and Recon.

Heia Safari!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_vessel

british tanks Op pls nerf phil

>>55211610
We did just a basic free for all, set up objectives, and went at it.

Given that I can free up 3 points for other stuff I think it'll be best to drop them for proper combat units. My 24 pts of Pz IVs didn't feel very effective and would be better suited as 3 more Pz IIIs with HEAT, or bumped to 3 Pz IVs with the long 7.5cm gun.

The major hang up I had was how cover blocks LOS so much. I pretty much sat around waiting for his commie bastards to get into my firing lines for shots at him. But once I did, god damn my dice were on fire.

>>55211973
>when your soldiers get out of the tank for a cuppa too much so you have to design the tank to make tea for them

>>55212089
Iron Maiden Update

>Boiling Vessel: all Chieftains reroll unsuccessful remount checks.

CHEERS

>>55204469
Go buy Zvezda's 1/144 scale hind, and set it next to infantry. You'll see why it's 1/100.

>>55212881
actually having landing helicopters physically placed on the board was a mistake

>>55214325
It was great in Vietnam though

>>55214325
Get rid of airmobile forces then, you jew.

>>55214805
Why? Air-mobile is awesome.

>>55214805
they just need to drop guys off as a rule instead of having to physically land

the sliding time scale and distance scale is so fucky

>>55215802
They are, but anon is bitching about it.

>>55211090
>LOL you sound like a 40k player
>implying a healthy tournament scene isn't what keeps alive a community

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>>55214325
>Fat ass Hinds hue hue hue onto the board
> fly right over my Redeye teams and hover over a wood I want to ambush from
>oh of course those lardies found some way to land in the woods.
>fuck deforestation
>I furiously look through the rulebook to see if my Redeye teams can shoot at the helicopters like 8" away.
>Nothing in the rules or FM-101... shit
>my turn comes around
>get a unit on in reserves
>bring a Luch Spah right beside the fuckhuge Hinds that are taking up the entire wood line.
>due to cheeky rules the Hinds get spooked and fly up.
>I have you now fucker.
>my 4 Redeye teams amd a few AA MGs shoot.
>nothing happens

>>55216196
No, it represents air movile abandoning LZ if the LZ is too hot. Not every soldiers prefer sucidal landing like CoD and Battlefield video game.

>>55217818
Guided AA can shoot at landed aircraft(p39), despite their LOS is restricted by terrain.(p42)
As Guided AA weapons do not have minimum range they can shoot at landed aircraft within 8 inches unlike Guided weapons.
Luchs can't force hinds to take off, only infantry do.(p37)

>>55218246
Interesting. Reread all the rules you listed. So I can drive an Abrams right beside a landed helicopter, and it won't run because it's not an infantry team...

I didn't want to shoot the Hinds in the woods because I presume they'd be concealed, even though the Hind would actually be hovering above the wood line.

>>55203126
Or to relate my experience with 12 HMG's firing nonstop at dug in/in buildings infantry in my last midwar V3 tourney- i made 4 casualties in 6 turns. WITH 12 HMGs SHOOTING 3-6 DICE EACH. i broke 50 shots per turn often.

Guns without firepower are rubbish at digging out inf.

>>55156309
I like how the change to Hens just made soviet tanks even more OP. Lets take an average points situation: 50/50 split 10 t34 /76 /85 fearless trained vs 4 fearless vet Pz4's (iirc, might be 5 pz4).

now, under old Hens, moving your unit to shoot at the hidden pz4's was 5's to hit concealed pz4's, 6es with Hens if you rolled into short range. This meant that driving somewhere with Hens meant you didn't hit shit with 10 tanks. On the return assuming you forced your enemy to move you'd take 3 hits average. Note that this is in advantage of the wehraboo if you move, but stops being if you don't. The tactic here was as germans to keep the soviet tanks moving, because with Stormtrooper you could often fire full ROF but forcing an enemy move.

New hens means the soviet tanks hit double as much (or more, if you're hitting on 7's) with 10 shots, but the 2+ to hit instead of the +3 trained on average nets the german pz4's only one more hit (3/5 to 4/5) So basically, with this hens change, the soviet doubles in firepower on the move and standing still as long as at least one tank moved, but only takes 33% extra damage.

As for the Morale changes to strelk, let's take the average 21 strelkblob without adding on anything else (which you totally should, btw, it skews the numbers even worse). Now, Conscript strelk aren't affected by this change at all, so are still as bad. Trained strelk again get hit 33% more. But 33% more hits only really matters in assaults, because compared to V3 you test 9 models later, IE: when it's no longer relevant. Now imagine attaching some PTRD's and Flamethrowers in red bear, and your enemy has to blend through 50 bases to force morale, compared to the previous 25 ish.

Double morale durability for being hit like conscripts? Sign me up!

Hero and Vet lists obviously excluded because they don't give a shit.

>>55219265

There are some units that pose a major problem to Tankovy

>Panthers and King Tigers: with their armor who cares if you can hit them better, and now you lose more tanks each turn. Though this probably isn't any more of a problem than it was before DESU (and at least against panthers the SU guns are buffed).

>What do you do against anti tank guns (inb4 preplanned medium mortar meme)?

>Assaulting infantry with bazookas and panzerfausts. You take more hits on the way in. The defensive fire bubble makes being hit easier a more severe penalty bringing in more fire.

>stormtrooper's biggest advantage is the german tanks (especially really fragile ones like PAKtracks) can shoot and not be exposed to any fire. Now Soviet tanks are easier to hit and can't return fire, forcing them to charge into contact as fast as possible.

I guess the underlying question, at least against Germans, is whether being easier to hit allows them to bleed you out, such that the being able to hit better when you finally line up shots doesn't matter. It's situational of course, but stormtrooper and heavy front armor hurt the Soviets ability to do much damage at range.

Unlike with the infantry, being 2+ to hit doesn't completely wreck the value of tanks on the table. Though I believe there are several cases where this hurts Soviet armor. I prefer the way the old Hen and Chicks played, but I'll give this way a try for a couple of games before I make a final judgment.

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If you are testing the new rules you have about a week to get those test games in.

>>55220200
Did they post the rules somewhere?

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>>55220200
>Massive sweeping changes that are nonsensical as fug
>you have two weeks before we make it permanent, and we're not telling you that you have 2 weeks till you have 10 days

Yeahno, I'm just gonna stick with an edition when these fucks at least had a vague idea what balance was.

>>55220311
See
>>55156489

>>55220332
I understand why they'd want to make it quick, but yeah I agree that it's not near enough time to make changes. Going to try to get a game in. We'll see what happens.

>>55217549
Uh except i never said that. I'm saying reactionary players jumping ship, selling their armies and cancelling tournaments due to new rules is retarded. either use the old rules you already play or adapt

>>55221530
Depends on the situation. I think tournies are losing turnout due to community split between V3 and V4. Selling armies is whatever. Maybe they are trying to get some cash for a game they are actively playing. At least no one has caught their army on fire due to V4.

>>55221630
tournaments being the community driver is truly GW thinking.
see this:
having 3-10 groups of 3-5 gamers in a city who all consistently play FoW and interact with each other allows for a more diverse meta, more fun games, and increases the joy one brings out of being part of a community.

my living area (25 miles) has 3 distinct cities to it, and if we all had 9-50 gamers each, that could be seen as Healthy, so long as the numbers averaged to having 75+-ish local gamers.

(oh, each suburb would be a different city in a metro area)

what about an initiative to troll phil based on >>55220200 this feedback thread

i mean if enough of you hate the changes and the cheersposting, this is the time to be heard

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>>55223481
not a bad idea
>we make throwaway accounts
>we go save the game

holy shit, is /fowtg/ in need of doing an old fashioned 'Chan-Raid?
>i like it.

>>55222879
I agree. Tournaments sell models (I'd like to see some actual numbers on this but im sure it depends on area/country/demographic) to the WAAC people who are in a similar vein to the "buy every new release due to disposable income" guys, who i'd say don't even really play the game.

Anecdotally with my time working at a LGS, most of my customers are above the age of 30, spend a LOT on models, and either play at their houses or don't play the games at all, just collect and paint models they like the look of. Constant complaint is how little time everyone has for hobbying, never hear complaining about rules changes or metas. The people who come to our tournaments are 100% always teenagers, and typically they don't buy models very often. I suspect these are also people who split their money towards other things (video games, social life etc)

My experience means nothing unless I had some actual numbers to back this up, but I'd say its safe to say the majority of FoW players are in it for the sake of building and displaying historical miniatures. The game comes second

Personally I collect both late/mid and lately a lot of team yankee

>>55223551
Geronimo! We first need to decide what our goals are so efforts can be properly concentrated

>>55223551
If this is something that needs to be done (and I have no idea since I've been on vacation and haven't even had time to read the proposed changes) then it needs to be done in such a way that we sound intelligent, reasonable, and well-spoken.

Treating it like a place to shit-post 4chan style probably wouldn't have the desired results.

Anyone using the holiday to get some modeling or painting done?

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>>55225875
I bought some m109s for my West Germans
not played any games of team yankee lately

Hardly play games of any system nowadays
lucky to get a game once a month now

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>>55225875
Finally got a chance to work on my soviets

>>55226365
Looks great anon

>>55226365
looking good, interesting choice of camo
are they afgansty?

>>55227975
da, VDV. 56th Guards Air Assault Brigade during the soviet-afghan war is what i'm going for. The tanks I just wanted a plain desert color. My transports and recons will probably get the legit soviet desert camouflage

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>>55225875
Yeah, converting a bergetiger P for one of the local's 653rd schwerepanzerjager.

Anyone else feel like Phil is going to ignore all the criticism of his proposed changes, focus on the few positive comments, and make them all official as-is?

It seems like any other possible solution to the "Soviet" large units issue is dismissed out of hand, since it would also affect US infantry / armored rifles (which Phil is treating as not being an option).

>>55229242
Yeah it seems like that's phils prerogative

>>55229242
>Anyone else feel like Phil is going to ignore all the criticism of his proposed changes, focus on the few positive comments, and make them all official as-is?
Pretty much guaranteed

>>55229242
I can almost guarantee that is what is going to happen. I can also guarantee that the morale rules (the real issue) will not be address

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>Tank escorts
The v4 update rules seem to say the soviet smg escorts get to shoot in defensive fire, but only against infantry trying to sneak up.
Am I reading this right?

>>55228866
Where'd you find the plastic Tiger P?

So basically after Stripes there's nothing announced for TY, right? Was hoping we might see French or Canadians.

Anyone know of unofficial Canadian lists for TY?

>>55231507
It's a modified Zvezda Ferdinand, which is based on the Tiger P. I can show how I cut it up in a bit.

>>55231596
I think they're redoing TY rules to be more in line with (shudder) V4, as well as brining Vietnam and middle east stuff into the new, hip, xwing 100 points system

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>>55231507
>>55231660
For this conversion, the main thing was the back. The big gun armor block is thankfully a separate piece, so all I had to do was cut the corners in the back (luckily the kit still has the underlying armor layer even if you only see a corner of it properly assembled). Up front I had to do some revamps to the driver hatch, and cleared some room for attaching tracks. On the top it was just removing the top mounting points. Sadly if you need it for a Tiger P it's not a viable solution, as the top deck is radically different. It really only works for the bergetiger P.

>>55229242
>>55229582
>>55229585
>>55229609


And the best part - by doing so, he absolves himself from any responsibility for fucking up Soviets, because community "play tested and approved" changes he proposed.
Cheers

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A giraffe

>>55234441
>RoF 45

>>55234549
+ 15 coax shots.

Would 14 of the turrets be +1 to hit?

>>55234549
>>55235593
>rof 1 on the move
CHEERS

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>>55234441
>>55235719

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New intel dump

>>55235897
>>55235835
Wait a sec... are we getting the Sheridan in Stripes?

Anyone used WG Bo105?
AT23 and Hunter killer looks promising while having no AA gun and thermal imging and high points cost makes me hesitate to buy them.

>>55236515
I've used them. Against WarPac they seem rather expensive for what they actually do. RoF 1 and FP 3+ is a killer. I'd consider them in tournies where you may get to play blue on blue, I think they'd love to shoot at Gepards, or NATO MBTs. Even still you may be better served by Jaguars, as PAHs get pretty squishy after they shoot.

>>55236044
>Aluminum armor is vulnerable to MG fire
>Firing shells fouls the barrel and prevents use of the ATGM
>Recoil from the gun can damage the turret ring and equipment mountings
>IR command link to ATGM can be disrupted by dust, smoke, and leaves in the wind

It will probably be an amazing auto include so they can reuse the ToD molds.

>>55236765
Well, the M113 is magically FA3, so it's probably likely.

>ATGM spam intensifies

>>55235819
>>55235835
>>55235864
>>55235897
>>55235952
>>55235968
>>55236044
Any word on if M1A1s are in stripes? I have a platoon of 4 built in anticipation.

>>55156353
I bought a major general Montgomery from them once and it was badly miscast / damaged out of the box. It took them a fucking month to get back to me, another week to reply to the damaged item form, and two weeks for them to send it. Would've been easier to just buy another one.

>>55237466
No word yet, but like many have said, the parts are on the sprue, so it would be easy enough to do it.

>>55239109
I imagine it's probably meant for any 1990s era wargaming.

When did the M1A1 come into service anyway?

I know their first real use was in Desert Storm, but I'd imagine they'd have been in use for maybe a year or two beforehand.

>>55240589
When did the M1A1 come into service anyway?

1985, the year Team Yankee is set in.

>>55241188
Production only started in 1985, meaning the first units to field them likely would not have been ready to be deployed until late '85 or early '86. And even then, the numbers would be limited.

There were only about 6000 made between 1985 and 1992, meaning that over 8 years they were producing an average of about 60 per month were being built, and the number was likely significantly smaller in the early months of production.

You might have a few company-strength units of M1A1s in Europe during the setting of Team Yankee, but likely they were still state-side while crews were being re-trained on the improved weapons systems.

>>55236044
That's the 'nam sheridan so it's someone's homebrew list for sure. Also look at the ERA T-tanks, which BF were explicit they weren't going to include.

>>55241404
Yeah, based on that, I kinda doubt Stripes will have the M1A1s, but I wouldn't rule them out of a future release.