/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

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>WMH

>>55145503
Careful mate dont choke!

I want to get into wmh. Is it worth it to get the 2 player battlebox so a friend and i can learn? Are the army boxes any good? Also can anyone tell me how the different factions play?

>>55145986
Depends on what you want from a game.

Im a fan if the game but im not gonna sugarcoat it either.

>>55145986
Run

>>55146020
I just want to get into some wargaming in general. Seems like wmh has a lower investment than aos or 40k... my lgs has a pretty active community too

>>55146020
Other anon: Is the competitivenes?

>>55146059
>>55146068
In terms of competitiveness its much higher then 40k sometimes to its detriment. The factions are much closer together in terms of PL, but it also attracts competative assholes.

In terms of investment im not a master of cash. Tye game will get a skirmish two player box in october. If your worried about price check it out.

Im a fan of the game, but I have my own misgivings, and i dont want to attract you a game that you would hate.

>>55145986
Depends on the faction
The battle boxes usually are a good place to start
As for an extremely brief rundown
>Cygnar
Long Range and LIGHTNING
>Khador
Slow and super heavy armor
>Cryx
lots of undead dudes and debuffs
>Protectorate
Buffs and lots of them
>Retribution
Jack of all Trades
>Convergence
Funky resource management
>Trollbloods
Lots of health and regen
>Circle
Lots of speed and movement shenanigans
>Skorne
Taking a hit and hitting back harder
>Legion
Glass cannon with speed to the EXTREME
>Grymkin
Uh... They're too new to really generalize. Kinda focused around corpse mechanics.

>>55145986
Rough faction rundown

Cygnar - Shoots hard. Shoots harder. Has issues killing tough things, but often deals with that by making sure they don't get to do anything.

Khador - Tough, hard to kill stuff that is good at killing stuff back. Not a lot of frills, but that goes both ways. They're really good at having cheap stuff kill expensive stuff, but when something can kill their cheap stuff, it often becomes a problem

PoM - Denial faction. Not as tough or hard hitting as the other factions, but have a ton of ways to keep your opponent from doing shit to your shit. A lot of their stuff tends to generally be weaker, but often benefits from buffs in faction or from the opponent hurting it. Has a real issue with terrain. Have some of the easiest casters to kill in their entire game.

Cryx - Undead, sneaky dick faction. Their warcasters are often really powerful in terms of their spellcasting. Boast lots of cheap infantry who can punch way above their weight class when supported. Kind of a glass cannon, a lot of their shit is pretty easy to kill for it's cost.

Ret - Combined Arms/Assassin faction. Good melee and ranged tools, good casters to support it. Often have the most ways to directly kill the enemy caster turn by turn. However, casters also tend to be fairly easy to kill if your opponent can draw a bead on them. Often have issues dealing with enemy defensive tech.

Mercs - Catch all faction, can do a lot of everything. Not a good place to start.

Convergence - The jack faction. They run their warjacks way better than anyone else does. Their casters are often incredibly powerful. Not harder to play than other factions, but have a much steeper learning curve to start. Also limited release, not going to get releases at the same rate as the other factions. On the reverse end, some of their shit is very, very good.

>>55146151

And Hordes

Trolls - Infantry faction. Good at attrition, every model in the army doesn't die 33% of the time. Have a lot of in faction buffs that they depend on to do work. 90% of their shit is medium sized or bigger though, which creates a lot of issue with placing the army on the table.

Circle - Tricky Dick faction. Doesn't always hit the hardest and takes hits super poorly, but has tons of ways to make sure they don't get hit and get to hit first.

Legion - Glass cannon faction. Their stuff is often super expensive and dies super easy, but when it gets there, it gets there hard. Tends to ignore a lot of game rules, though not as many as they did in Mk2.

Skorne - Beat face faction. Almost all their tactics can be summed up as "Apply army to enemy", it's usually just about how you do it. Army often gets stronger by losing shit. All their warlocks are often combat monsters, with even their ranged and spell warlocks being pretty damn good in melee combat. Often have to lose half their shit to make it to the enemy lines, but whatever gets there will usually kill anything it reaches.

Minions - Same as mercs. Not a good starter faction

Grymkin - Newest faction, and very weird. Have a bunch of unique rules that majorly affect how the game works. Also limited, like Convergence above. Not a good starter faction.

>>55146233
>Trolls - Infantry faction. Good at attrition, every model in the army doesn't die 33% of the time. Have a lot of in faction buffs that they depend on to do work. 90% of their shit is medium sized or bigger though, which creates a lot of issue with placing the army on the table.
Maybe in Mk.2, now it's half and half
Most list pairings tend to be Power of Dhunia and Kriel Company these days

>>55146233
>>55146151
Warcaster/Warlock choice has a huge affect on how an army plays though, so regard these as general guidelines. Most any faction can do every tactic one way or another(heavy spam, infantry spam, mixed, etc, etc).

>>55145986

Run away, spend money on another game. Seriously.

>>55146141
Posts like this are off base. Those days are over. One of the most brutal armor skews is Baldur2 double wrath, and Harkevich can make Khador heavies threat the same as a Warpwolf. Just pick the faction you like the look of. Makeda2 double cats has just as much (if not more) movement shenanigans then any circle lists.

>>55145455
Is it just me or is PP getting more and more retarded at the model concept stage?

Skarre on half a ship, Sorscha going slow, Grymkin.

>>55149016
>What is gyrmkin

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We finally get a manowar caster and it's fucking Sorscha. Joy.

>>55151400
>>What is gyrmkin

Yeah that entire faction line is fucking cringe.

>>55149016
>>55151400
>>55152832


It's mostly hit really. Yeah the Neighslayers and Piggybacks are awful, but I find the rest of the faction pretty inspired in my view.

I find stuff like the Heretic, the Dreamer, the Frightmare pretty great overall.

I like Skarre on half a ship. Has a neat look to it. And we have no evidence that MOW Sorcha will be slow yet.

>>55152946
Can't fault you for having shit taste, I guess.

>>55152946
>Grymkin, aka the faction of pure garbage
>mostly hit

>>55153011
Eh, this is 4chan. Reasonable discussion is for fags and shitposting rules.

>>55152946
Grymkin are entirely awful, Skarre on a ship is a dumb concept even by current standards and Sorscha will of course be slow, because fast MoWs would be even worse.

>>55153052
Um. Alright. We all agreed that your opinions are the only opinions so I guess you win.

Have a (You)

>>55145455

...the fuck am I looking at? That also looks to be a pathetically poorly armed ship even when it was complete. I mean, a single deck of guns? She's supposed to be an admiral.

>>55153023
Alright.
Grymkin are a faction made for a different scale of game that break down once you even remotly think about their themes and ideas. The actual themes are handled better by several other factions and none of the themes actually translate to the tabletop all that well.
None of the units and models have a unified visual design beyond 'silly' (and maybe 'shitty model'), leaving the army looking disjointed and unappealing. The only good model is OW2, and she's with Khador anyway, so not even that counts.

Skarre on half a ship is stupid because what the hell are you going to do with half a fucking ship, nevermind it being the boring part. And going by the design even when it was complete it'd be a tiny fucking ship when compared to the fluff.

Sorscha not being slow will not happen if the designers have any idea of their own material, because Men-of-War being slow, plodding steamsuits is a significant part of their fluff and foregoing that would be stupid.

>>55153098
Using an horde of lost souls to lift up a long since sunk ship from the bottom of the sea and using it to terrorize the land-dwellers is pretty impressive in my book.

She owns personally a bunch of ships, it's in the lore. I guess she just uses this on land missions.

>>55153141
Just have the souls carry the cannons directly, then.

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>>55153141

>Using an horde of lost souls to lift up a long since sunk ship from the bottom of the sea and using it to terrorize the land-dwellers is pretty impressive in my book.

Ship seems a bit generous a term. I think I've been on river ferries bigger than it would have been complete. Actually...looking over it, I think I know why it sunk. Look how close the cannons are to the waterline, I think the thing would be swamped and sunk by a half decent wave, as it's about '1 dude' between the bottom of the ship and the cannons.

>She owns personally a bunch of ships, it's in the lore. I guess she just uses this on land missions.

Why not use a ship with a cannon of note? We've seen a proper ship's cannon in the Commodore. Those are 1 pow above the Deck Guns pirates have available.

>>55153141
Impressively impractical, you mean?
>can't aim both cannons at one thing
>offers at best mediocre protection
>won't swim for shit in a pinch
>burns well
>makes you a huge target
>presumably requires some effort to wrangle the ghosts into doing your bidding
>looks utterly ridiculous

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>>55153131
>Grymkin
Personally, I find their corpse collection mechanic and general solos and such work very well. And I like (Most of) their stuff and the stuff I don't like Im gonna mod.

In general, I like what PP does with their lore and their ideas. As a person who is sick to DEATH of "Cthuloid" Threats on their own, I liked what they did with the Infernals by making THEM much more Lovecraftian in nature with strange unknowing desires for the mortal realms and wanting their souls only for food. Makes infernals Fresh and Lovecraft less obnoxious.

So these guys take place of a Traditional Fey and "Devil" faction. And I think it's pretty unique and executed pretty well as most fables of those times really did have cruel twists of just cruelty, or combined with brutal Morality. And in the traditional color scheme, they do lack a unifying aesthetic sans if you know the fluff, It does make it a very appealing faction for me to mod as a guy whos a fan of doing that.
You find it unappealing, others do. I was personally surprised for them to be catching allot of peoples attention at GenCon. So I guess mission success for PP if they are courting other demographics.

>Skarre
Transportation and it carries a section of her crew with her. I just really enjoy the visual (Souls carrying an evil Pirate ship), and it's not her only ship of course.

>Sorcha
Let us see. Standard MOW suits are slow but this isn't a Standard MOW Suit. We can already see improved joint protection, especially at the feet. Improved strength can come with improved speed. I doubt she will be as agile, but she could still be fast.

>I don't like a thing

And most importantly that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion, and if you don't like a thing, feel free to dislike it. Your reasoning isn't half bad, it just appeals to me for my reasons. I know sensibility in 4chan is a waste, but I genuinly am fine with people liking different things.

>>55152946
>I find stuff like the Heretic, the Dreamer, the Frightmare pretty great overall.

Fucking hilarious anon. Compare PP trying creepy victorian/steampunk to Malifaux. It's laughable.

Finally getting a game in with the Vyre lights tonight. Part of me wants to try spamming them with Elara or Ghyrrshyld just to see how ridiculous I can be.

On the other hand I have a more legit list that is probably better using Elara2 and two Harpies attached to Scyirs. Potential extra 3" move before aiming and she can give them a Stealth out. Plus on Feat turn they can get in some weird places with Scything Touch if needed.

>>55153635
Here's the less retarded list
War Room Army

Retribution of Scyrah - 8/15(CID)

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army


Elara, Death's Shadow - WJ: +28
- Fane Knight Guardian - PC: 4
- Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Hemera - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)

Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - PC: 4
- Harpy - PC: 9
Dawnguard Sentinel Scyir - PC: 4
- Harpy - PC: 9
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Lys Healer - PC: 3
Houseguard Thane - PC: 4
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution - PC: 6

Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
House Shyeel Arcanists - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7


---

GENERATED : 08/31/2017 10:17:29
BUILD ID : 2047.17-07-25

Sorscha3 looks so cool.

>>55153635
My pal used a Harpy yesterday in a rule-breaking Forges of War list.

It's a pretty rad light.

>>55149016
They done every usual concept over the years already. So we're in wacky territory now.

>>55154731
The gun-mount looks awkward and weird and trying to make the suit more feminine in appearance was a mistake.

>>55154731
Agreed. Wonder how her kit will translate to being a MoW

>>55155809
I don't think armor stops you from casting certain spells in the wmh universe.

>>55157025
Regular armor can, but they wear Warcaster armor, which is specifically designed to not stop you.

>>55157025
I more meant how her previous versions both had mobility tools and DEF buffs and now she's a MoW which aren't generally either of those things

>>55157179
I mean, she might have some of those.

Give her Truth Path, for example. That one might be excessive, given the rest of the in faction infantry, but still.

Why the fuck are you faggots getting hung up on the idea that sorcha might (gasp) be a little slow becuase she put on ASSLOADS OF GAINT ARMOR. CHRIST HOW LITERALLY AUTISTIC CAN YOU GET

>>55157179
To a certain extent, PP is willing to bend to public opinion. If people stress that they really liked a sense of Mobility on at least Sorcha, it will have some representation in-game.

In a sense she was always moving towards More Armor and less defense in her incarnations:

Sorcha 1: Wind Rush, Fog of War
Sorcha 2: Cyclone, Iron Flesh

>>55157236
Reminder that it's hard to discern emotions over text on the internet.

>>55157236
Because shitposting and general desire to be unhappy. If we wanted to be happy we would not be on 4chan.

>>55157236
Sorsche is the last caster in faction I'd have put in MoW armor, simply because her whole gimmick and the the general theme of the armor clash horribly.

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Breakups hit you hard

>>55157236

Well, Sorsha's thing has generally been that she's bloody fast (And makes everyone else slow) with themes of Wind and Ice so she's an odd choice to make the brick of hot steam belching armour.

>>55157301
I wonder what Ayn-sama would do if she found out Vlad was cheating on her.

Umbreyan genocide maybe?

>>55152192
>We finally get a manowar caster and it's fucking Sorscha

Rebound relationship!?

>>55157315
Every casters armor belches steam.

>>55157373

Yeah but Man O War is on an entirely different scale there. To the level where you start taking fire damage every turn if it gets damaged in the RPG.

>>55157373
Not to the point where it boils the wearer.

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>>55157315
>have caster that is fast and cold
>put her in armor that is slow and hot
Pottery.

>>55157394
Their quote on their old card was something like "we shall die in steam" I think lol

>>55157603
Again its an Elite MOW suit. They pretty much could just correct that kink for their irreplaceable Warcasters.

>>55157394
Warcaster armor is far higher quality and basically unique. Strakhov's armor, for example, is far and away above normal Assault Kommando armor.

Hell, MoW armor is basically knockoff Warcaster armor without all the extra protection.

>>55157741
I get that it's possible but it doesn't fit with who sorscha has been for the last 15 years.

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>>55157944

Then again, we never knew Skarre likes to steal toy boats from amusement parks and ride about on them until now.

>>55157373
Elfcaster armour doesn't.

>>55158071
And neither does CoC armor, because neither are steam driven.

Which wasn't what I was talking about, clearly.

But I guess it's important to get wins on technicalities when that's all you're capable of.

>>55158071

Or Protectorate (it's oil based).

Honestly for a steam-based setting a LOT of people don't use it.

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>>55158143

How's Warmachine tactics?
I just found out about the game this week. I wish it were on gog.com as I hate steam
And why doesn't it have Horde factions?

>>55158669
Bad

>>55158107
I'm not actually the guy you were arguing with originally.

I just felt like pointing out that elves are better.

>>55158669
Even as a warmachine player it's really really bad dude. I wouldn't even buy it on sale.

>>55153247

(Not the trolls you're responding to)

I just dislike the skarr model because it doesn't really "read" to me as a ship being carried by souls...Primarily because it's half a ship, but also because the pedestal it's "flying" on looks like it got impaled by a rock since it goes *into* the ship. I do understand they probably did half a ship because a full ship may have been way too large, but I think it just lead to a rather silly model.

Now, if this ship was a full ship (it could still be battered and missing its mast even) riding a "wave" of souls that goes all along its base? I could see that looking pretty awesome. But as is, I don't understand why, even if the ship was super important, you'd want to ride around on the back half of a ship on a tornado.

Just my two cents, I do agree though that the grymkin are cooler than people say (although still have problems), I don't think "you can mod them!" is a fair reason to give their misses a pass though.

>>55158999
>Even as a warmachine player
shouldn't that be "especially for a warmachine player"?
The way you said it makes it sound like Warmachine is bad.

>>55159427
Not my intention, unlike most of the Debbie downers here I actually love warmachine. The video game still sucks tho lol

>>55159217
Those are solid reasons. I get how the "Back" half of a ship is kinda the least sexiest part to ride around in.

>>55159427
Yeah I think he meant "Even as a person who likes warmachine the game is garbage"

And the game is garbage, even as another guy who likes warmachine.

>>55153510

The grymkin's creepy is kinda of lame but so is Malifaux. Don't go pretending it's not just as bad.

>>55161273
>Don't go pretending it's not just as bad.

Anon, Malifaux does that genre a hell of a lot better.

Grymkin are just laughable.

So how does Convergence like their new theme force?

CLOCKWORK LEGIONS - CONVERGENCE OF CYRISS

>Convergence Warcasters
>Convergence nonCharacter Vectors
>Priest models/units
>Construct units/solos with Soul Vessel

Benefits:

>Enigma Foundaries are FA 4
>Shield Wall Units gain Advanced Move
>Medium based units gain Vengeance
>For every 20 points of units in the army, you gain one free UA/Solo

>>55163662
>>For every 20 points of units in the army, you gain one free UA/Solo

Man that design space and innovation.

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New CID stuff

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>>55163829

Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer: Adding utility to this unit should help define its roll and ease some of the issues when playing Sons of the Tempest.

Remove Tactics: Practiced Maneuvers. Add Moment of Clarity: This model can use Moment of Clarity once per game at any time during its unit’s activation. This activation, models in this unit gain True Sight. (This model ignores cloud effects when determining LOS. This model also ignores Stealth XICONX.)


Ashlynn d'Elyse: We're getting a lot of good feedback for Ashlynn, keep it up! We've got out eye on some additional tweaks but would like to see how these changes progress before we do anything else. Please note this change to Distraction would also affect Helga.

Nemesis gains Lunge. Lunge - This weapon becomes RNG 2 during this model’s activation.

Distraction becomes RNG 10.


Bradigus Thorle: Changing how Mystic Wards functions will hopefully bring a little more consistency and effect to the spell. We also increased the RNG of Stone's Throw to encrouage a more active play experience with Bradigus himself.

Mystic Wards. Repalce the text with the following: Enemy animi and enemy upkeep spells on models in this model’s battlegroup that are in its control area immediately expire. Enemy magic attacks targeting a model in this model’s battlegroup suffer –5 RNG.

Stone's Throw. Increase the RNG to 10.

>>55163847
Eminent Configurator Orion: Implimenting the changes from the Dev Talk. Based on the feedback gathered we decided to push testing at MAT4 RAT 5. We also changed the name of Power Blaster based on community feedback and made the pulse effect only damage enemy models.

MAT Becomes 4.

RAT Becomes 5.

Add the abiltiy Configuration. Configuration: At the beginning of this model's activation it gains +2 MAT or RAT until the start of its next activation.

Power Blaster. Change name to Forced Induction. Replace text with: Target warjack gains a focus point. Then the warjack and enemy models with 1˝ for each focus point on the warjack suffer an unboostable POW 10 electrical damage roll XICONX. When Power Blaster targets an enemy model, it is an offensive spell and requires a magic attack roll.

Lieutenant Crosse, Resistance Fighter: We're also seeing some very solid feedback for Crosse. Please keep it up! We have changed Lifedbound to be much easier to use by making it range Ctrl instead of 6". We will continue to work on Crosse as the feedback comes in.

Lifebound becomes RNG Ctrl.


Ice Witches: We've received a lot of negative feedback on even more Ice Cage in Legion. By adding Summon Vortex to this unit it gives it a very unique roll to the faction and could open up some defensive tech for some of the underplayed warlocks. We are cautiously optimistic about this as a cloud wall has never existed in Legion before. Swapping Ice Bolt for Frost Hammer brings their power level down a touch allowing them to stay 7 points. Because of the addition of Vortex, we removed Snow Wreathed.

Replace Ice Cage with Summon Vortex.

Replace Frost Hammer with Ice Bolt.

Cont.

>>55163862
Agrimony, Crone of the Dying Strands: We reduced the point cost of Agrimony hopefully bringing her into Ghost Fleet as an option you will take during list building and not exclusively as a free model.

Point cost becomes 4.

Primus Jalaam: Jalaam has been receiving very positive reviews with a few issues pointed out. Resourceful should help address his fury issues. There has been a call for ammo types on Jalaam's Reiver, but we do not feel this is the correct course of action at this time. He wields the standard Reiver ranged weapon and this will not be changing.

Add Resourceful special rule.

Champion of the Order of the Wall: The Champion is very nearly perfect. It is receiving positive reviews and seeing inclusion in the Faithful Masses theme force. Increasing his command to 9 not only brings him in line with other Paladins of the Order of the Wall but makes his leadership ability much easier to use.

CMD becomes 9.

Theme Forces:

Sons of the Tempest: Fixing a clerical error that would allow you to upkeep offensive spells for free on opposing Arcane Tempest models.

Faithful Masses: Added the Covenant of Menoth to the allowed models.

Llaelese Resistance: Added Dannon Blythe & Bull and Eilish Garrity, the Occultist to the allowable models. The sniper benefit proved to be too much with the amount of gun mages that could be included in the list. 15 points required for free models will make this a much easier bonus to trigger. Adding Pathfinder to Llaelese models instead is a more wide spread and helpful benefit while also not becoming degenerate. Changing how the Rubble terrain works should make it less of a detriment to the Llaelese player. As stated before, we are activly working on this theme force. Please keep your feedback coming!

>>55163811
Didn't a lot of mk.2 theme forces give you free shit?

>>55164031
Or lowered the PC of things.

I have mixed feelings about Gastonne. Feat seems a little uninspired but that's just what feats are these days. Feat seems pretty dece though, could be really hard to deal with or it could be useless. His stats are all super poopy which makes puts a sour taste in my mouth. Low defenses but he's got defensive tech, sure. Low rat but he's got his soul thing and you'll be wanting to boost his shots anyway, sure. And of course the ability to go super saiyan with three souls (or super saiyan god with four souls). Actually the more I talk about him the more I like him. I'm just afraid that he'll be interesting to play but not all that strong.

But Lil Gastonne is all growed up, hype!

>>55163883
Sniper on gun mages was too strong, really?

>>55166713
Oh I just realized his feat fully affects him too doo he gets one round of running and gunning. Thats not nothing

How does Inhuman Resolve interact with Steady, granted by the Iron Fang Kovnik?

Do you become disabled, but not knocked down?

Do you get boxed, because can't get knocked down and disabled?

Or do you never get disabled at all as long as you can't get knocked down?

>>55168681
Pretty sure it's disabled, but not knocked down. Protectorate has been able to do something like this for a while with the Exemplar Seneschal.

>>55171649
It's exactly this.

Ima try er out with Butcha 1

Advanced Maneuvers called Sofya the best out all these new models.

I think they are wrong, outside of being available for free in theme she doesn't do a lot of anything.

>>55173465
She's not bad by any measure, but comparing her to a game-changer like Orion or the Cryx Witch (No Matter how Cryx Insists that anything below a A+ Class is crap), she's OK.

Some counterintuitive stuff with her like Shield Guard or Veteran Leader.

ConflictAnon, why can't I add anything to army lists?

https://conflictchamber.com/#cc201b_-0Sd8dBd4d5d5d5d5dEdEdEdEdcdcdqdqdqdsds

Convergence Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Clockwork Legions (Pre-release)

!!! You are using a pre-release theme.

(Axis 1) Axis, the Harmonic Enforcer [+30]
- Corollary [6]
- Diffuser [6]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
- Galvanizer [5]
Enigma Foundry [0(4)]
Enigma Foundry [0(4)]
Enigma Foundry [0(4)]
Enigma Foundry [4]
Clockwork Angels [5]
Clockwork Angels [5]
Obstructors (max) [11]
Obstructors (max) [11]
Obstructors (max) [11]
Reductors (max) [13]
Reductors (max) [13]

Thoughts?

>>55173918

Try refreshing the page, there was a bug with Hordes lists that was live briefly.

(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Despoiler [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Mammoth [38]
- Aptimus Marketh [5]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Paingiver Bloodrunners [9]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]

(Makeda 2) Supreme Archdomina Makeda [+27]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Despoiler [19]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]

Heheheeee :-DDDD

>>55175428

Ok, why the happy? Looks... nice? I'm glad I'm not trying to keep those Ferox off of me/trying to kill those ferox, I'm sure that Rasheth list can kill my stuff and protect its stuff, but there has to be something more to this.

>if we end up losing this thread to gurm copypasta shitposting...

>>55178843
The fuck is a gurm

>>55180324
GRR Martin.

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Bouncers: the little beasts that could.
I love this little bastard. Such a good road block

>>55181484
Anything in specific that makes him stand out?

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>>55181762
Mostly the fact that he can armor up to hell with Stone in his front arc.
Stone+Shield+Base means he's a 12/21, which is amazing for a light. With rage, he's a respectable beatstick.
Ragnor makes them shine though. A 12/21 under his feat is practically invincible. If they want it dead, they need to commit a LOT of resources to get rid of it. Also, Pulverizer+Rage makes him go from respectable beatstick, to actually dangerous beatstick.
Oh, and he's got shield guard, which is always nice.

>>55181828
Oh yeah, and Earth's Blessing is a excellent tech tool. No stationary/pushing/knockdown/slamming is an excellent anti-assassination

Does anyone have batreps or impressions of Gastonne? I'm pining for him like trailer trash for meth, I'd try him out but I don't have time to play or people willing to let me proxy all the models

>>55182697
On the CID forums there is a lot of reports and people saying that he's trash.
>people willing to let me proxy all the models
What the fuck

>>55181484
Beast? That just looks like a regular infantry dude.

>Thread started 3 days ago
>Only 31 posters, 108 replies over 3 days
>Truly ded thread
>Truly ded game

>>55185959
alternatively: school is starting back up and since most of the players of wargames are adults with children or post-secondary students, most of the community doesn't have time to play or discuss the game.

shit, I should be buying school stuff right now but here I am posting on an anonymous perusian spice board.

>>55185959
Also Miserable place.

>>55185959
Might also be because half the posters are fucks like you which make conversation a non-starter. Hell, Lormahordes is more active than this place.

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>>55186086
>Might also be because half the posters are fucks like you which make conversation a non-starter

lulz anon, as opposed to >>55181484 and >>55181828 which could be summarized quicker by just typing "bump". Also, your fat is coming through over the keyboard.

>>55186064
It's the community.

>>55186176
Nah the community is fine. Its the miserable ex fans. I guess they get their wish by discouraging others.

>>55186176
>Nah the community is fine

Have you been to a con lately? I'm not saying >>55186176 is completely right and it's all poison but it's the worst I've ever seen it.

And I remember coke can Caine terrain arguments from Mk 1

>>55186412
>Have you been to a con lately?
Yeah. Gencon. It was cool. We did only play Iron Arena though. We used the fancy terrain and made up weird environmental rules.

On top of that later people let me use some personal cool terrain I purchased at the convention.

>>55186086
>Lormahordes is more active than this place

Strange but true.

>>55185959
I was busy shutting up and playing the game.

I recommend it. Shut up and play.

>>55145455

Wouldn't mind getting the Warmachine franchise some more attention, but what would you need?

Books written by Dan Abnett?
A slew of good video games?
An animated movie?
All of the above, so long as it's not cringey like the dialogue in the animated short, WM:Tactics or some of the books?

>>55188816
Basically what it needs is:

>writing contracted out to actual authors
>script writing/etc. for shorts done by actual screenwriters/directors etc.
>video games done by non-shit development companies

Their IP is just not properly utilized when it comes to branching out.

Some kind of action game would be kind of cool. Imagine controlling Stryker or Butcher in For Honor style combat, while also having an AI controlled Battle Group which you can order to do shit in some tactical menu, like Titanfall outside the titan.

For the story, just go with something simple that captures the setting. Don't put more effort into this than Space Marine did.

>>55189517
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM8ExWoG6Y8

Aren't you happy they decided to make Tactics instead?

>>55189517
>Butcher with For Honor gameplay
Can I get Elara2 with Metal Gear Rising gameplay on the side?

>>55189809
Even that horrendous shit pile looks and sounds better then what we got.

>>55146059
nah guildball is a better minis game for newbs

>>55188816
>A slew of good video games?
Total War: Iron Kingdoms
>An animated movie?
Something like the Star Wars: Clone Wars movie? A vague excuse for a bunch of action scenes where factions face off.

Honestly, the problem is that the setting has been marketing itself primarily on its characters.

When those characters are Meh at best. The setting is cooler than the individuals in it really.

>>55188816
New edition.

>>55188816

>An animated movie?

Although it's an impossible dream, a 2D animated show would be more appealing. If it was an animated movie then we would be doomed to a 70-90 minute wank of Stryker or Haley. At least if it was a show we would be able to explore other factions more, or at least get a chance to see the more interesting Cygnar warcasters.

I think Caine's Hellslingers or the Blackriver Irregulars are perfect for show material. Mercs are the best lens to look through for the Iron Kingdoms.

Netflix make it happen, you have plenty of dosh to toss around for a gamble like a Warmachine cartoon.

>>55189809
That aids inducing audio track sold it

To be completely fair, tactics isn't a bad approach. If you polished the look of tactics and removed all the shitty stuff that doesn't work because 14$ budget, bugs and shitty choices, it could've been good.

Commander perspective Strategy games aren't dead, see Xcom.

In fact, someone could probably make a really cool Warmachine mod for Xcom.

>>55190382
Alright, what would you want IN SPECIFIC? Not sperging out, not just saying "Destroy X LOLOLOLOL"
And when that happens how would it appeal to the overall demographics, as well as account for model bloat.

>>55190539
>70-90 minute wank of Stryker or Haley

It would end up being warcaster-centric, wouldn't it?
Can't have warjacks without warcasters.

>>55190586
The new edition is all that matters for cleaning the slate. There's too much history and baggage now. They hit the functional level currently so repeat it with new edition.

The new edition by itself is not the truly needed change, but more of a byproduct or sign of the change truly needed by PP, which won't happen because it's a vanity company. They are just hemorrhaging talents and the business decisions are just plainly bad. Kirby era GW level bad.

The company likely should move physically, preferably South. Their pay is not competitive in Bellevue, and US south has less tax on businesses compared to the coasts.

as for the actual edition... make power attacks back to mkii?

>>55190586
no more major support for the major factions, regular releases of "sub-factions." change steamroller to "factions can work together" and ADR would be a list of what factions you can play together to gain the ADR bonuses from.

more community involvement/regular online releases of material so that people can get involved even without paying into NQ.

if it's feasible, find some way to make models cheaper to allow for lower barrier of entry.

>>55190877
>no more major support for the major factions, regular releases of "sub-factions." change steamroller to "factions can work together" and ADR would be a list of what factions you can play together to gain the ADR bonuses from.

That sounds fucking awful desu

>>55190967
they've gone on record saying that they're running out of ideas for things to put in the already-existing factions. And playtesting new things in already existing factions takes longer, because now you need to balance it against 150+ other models.

Lowering support for the already existing factions, and instead creating "new" factions and focusing on creating things for them, would be fantastic for the game.
One, it allows for more creative freedom. I can't use a rule around spawning monsters that get stronger and larger as the game goes on in the existing factions, but if I made a bug faction that allows you to "grow" warbeasts on the table I could.
Two, it allows for more people to play. As arching as the aesthetic is for existing armies, there's a lot of ground you can't squeeze into those spaces. As mentioned above, there's no bug faction. Make it a Grymkin-sized faction, boom. Now you have a new army people can buy into, with unique rules, and a unique aesthetic that is at present untapped.

I wasn't saying DROP support for existing factions, just lower it. There's huge model bloat and they're just chugging along with releases; they're making the problem worse for themselves as they complain about it being a problem.

>>55191240
>they've gone on record saying that they're running out of ideas
I actually believe you, but do you have a source?

>>55191240
They are running out of ideas because they have gotten to ignoring the community for so damn long.

Sorscha 3 is the prime example of providing something no one wanted then saying that they are running out of ideas.

Hell, I'm pretty sure I can at least think of dozen models per faction people would actually fucking want.

>>55191331
not offhand, I can't remember if it was regurgitated info from a person I know who frequently flies to WA to play with the Wills or if it was mentioned in passing when they were chatting in one of the podcasts they do.

And as >>55191354 said, look at the quality of things they've been releasing to existing factions vs the new Grymkin release and CoC warcaster: while the models for Grymkin are hit and miss, the rules for the faction are cool as fuck. I've been thinking of putting together a "Halloween Costume" conversion for Grymkin, where it's a few legit pieces from Grymkin and then a bunch of models converted to look like they're wearing costumes to fit in. And the CoC caster is crazy; the feedback for it from the community has been crazy, and exceptionally consistent. As compared to the main factions, who when they get feedback is mostly people bitching about their favourite toys losing things that they want, the feedback for Syntherion has been both constructive and mostly positive, and has opened discussion in the community. When was the last time Khador/Cyngar/Cryx got something that elicited a response like Grymkin's release, or even anything relatively close? Trencher non-moving bunker was huge, but no one really batted an eye in my area. And we have three dedicated Cygnar players! But when CoC got the new caster everyone was excited, even though we only have one guy who plays CoC and he's only out once every two weeks.

>>55191451
>not offhand
Of course.

>>55191451
P sure his name's Orion, not Syntherion.

>>55191474
I'm sorry I don't keep a catalogue of everything people say so I can gotcha! them on a moment's notice?

>>55191474
Dude, I fucking live in Bellevue and I hear almost everything through hearsay. There's/were a lot of wmh talk with both the playerbase and the development team. Whatever he's writing is basically the truth.

I think the development difficulties were directly mentioned in Jason Soles AMA

Pick three of these for me to keep an army of at my LGS. I store a few there because it's easier than transporting them all the time.

>Makeda3 imperial warhost
>Zaadesh2 imperial warhost
>Mordikaar spooky attrition
>Rasheth mammoth
>Makeda2 double cats

>>55191873
Whatever with the biggest footprint.

>>55191972
>Makeda2, Rasheth, Zaadesh2
Yeah I was kinda leaning there myself, thanks for the suggestions.

>>55190877

Ignoring whether or not any of those ideas are good or not, none of what you just listed would require a new edition change. I really don't understand the obsession with some disgruntled players about a 'new edition' change. Mk3 release sucked, we all acknowledge that, but the core rule set is rock solid and faction balance is getting better and better. A 'Mk4' release would change virtually nothing, and would really just open up the system to more errors.

>>55191451

>they've gone on record saying...
>'I can't remember if it was from a unreliable anonymous source or something they maybe said in an episode of Primecast I can't remember'

Fuck off dude.

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>>55191565
No, hey man, I totes belive you!

I personally have evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, Bill Cosby admitted to being an alien, and that we're actually being ruled by reptoid aliens.

I mean, I don't have evidence for any of these things off hand, but you guys totes gots to believes me!

>>55192117
Well, you are obviously a quack. Go to /x/

>>55192117
Everyone knows only the last one is true
And the first
But Bill Cosby is definitely a reptoid and thus subterranean, not alien

>>55191240
>for things to put in the already-existing factions
A khaldorian jack on a khaldorian warjack-horse
Boom, game saved

But seriously, that would probably fit the Protectorate's knight-jack aesthetic more

>>55183977
The eternal problem of trollbloods. What is the difference between a light warbeast and a regular infantry dude? Not much.

>>55193078
I colour code the painted front arcs on my bases so my opponents know what the model is. I mean, it's really fucking obvious because I play Skorne and one is a dude in armour with a sword and the other is a bipedal elephantine rape machine, but I mean the thought is there.

>>55193078
Just look at the size of their weapons instead of the underlying model, duh

>>55195265
But... Fennblade kithkar...champion hero... Horgle?

>>55187999
>I recommend it. Shut up and play.

Lookatthetoughguy.jpg

Last time I went to a local warmachine gathering, I saw an argument where someone was playing CID and the other guy didn't know it until half way through.

I went to play some random Troll player and he showed me this CID Mulg that was just fucking insane. I said sure, whatever, then watched it eat my face.

Is this the state of the game? Where people are 'testing' broken shit that's released in CID half the time?

Fuck that noise, I'm a consumer of their game, not their fucking nanny.

I thought this game was dead

>>55190176
>Total War: Iron Kingdoms

Nigger no. Wmh is specifically NOT about well-defined blocks of men crashing into each other on open fields or city walls.

The true vidya format this franchise needs is character action from the point of the warnoun and to a lesser extent his jacks/beasts.

>>55199010
Just do a gears of war clone.

>>55199052
Ew

>>55196471
Maybe stop being an autist/12 year old and discuss with your opponent before the game starts how you want to play it. You know, like an adult would do?

Other than that, you should consider shut up and play.

>>55199010
character-only warnouns was a mistake

>>55199010
>Zipping through infantry as Morghoul
>Carving up giant robots as Makeda
>Being a fat fuck as Rasheth
I'm sold.

CoC infantry theme confirmed; rejoice.

>>55202910
Yup. And the engines that where illegal now are legal now.

So I've seen a lot of negativity or at least apathy about Trencher Mechaniks. Does anyone else think they look great?

Specifically Heavy Metal now has access to reasonably survivable units with Rat 6 guns.

Also Heavy Metal Caine 3 + all the Grenadiers. Like 20ish pow 16-18 shots on feat turn is a huge alpha strike right? Even with only half or so boosted.

>>55207181
They're cool but points in something like heavy metal are super tight

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Hey guys, anyone know what happens if you hit the Witch Coven ball with the Starburst cannon?

The egregore is not a Warcaster, it's specifically a solo, right? And whenever it suffers damage the witches take it instead right?

But if the egregore is just removed from play without any damage being dealt, what the hell happens?

Asphyxious3, how do you play him?

Do I just ball up and ignore all objectives in favor of assassination runs?

>>55208590
>On critical hit vs non-warcaster, non-warlock small model, the target is removed from play.
>small model
Egregore is a medium base model

>>55208590
It's removed from play without any damage being dealt

Or do the witches have a "when egregore is dead, they're all dead" deal?

>>55208282
Depends. Caine only gets 3 free models max there and he can spend up to 20 points on units and solos without cutting into those. That's 5 points less than you need to buy 9 dudes with Rat 6 guns who can load Grenadiers.

>>55208808
You are correct and this is sad.

>>55209018
OK, but that's not better than Charger spam. Sooo, what's the point?

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Did some CID games today with people trying to test new shit.

Guys, this chick is fucking great. She's such a pain in the ass to just by being around and I would expect that, especially during initial release, opponents using up a bunch of clock time trying to figure out how to deal with her.

>>55211065
>Guys, this chick is fucking great. She's such a pain in the ass to just by being around and I would expect that, especially during initial release, opponents using up a bunch of clock time trying to figure out how to deal with her.

Yup. Im kinda shocked she is only five points.

Try her out with Butcher and Vengeance In Legion of Steel.

She will countercharge you, and then if you even TRY to get rid of her (And you can't if she's near the Kovnik), she gets to stab you again, and then if you kill her allies she gets to stab you again.

3 Pow 13 Weaponmaster attacks outside of activation. With the ability to target whatever specific grid you desire.

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Is it me or is this motherfucker insanely good?

POW13, ROF2, and positioning/knockdown? This will make Rhythm of War silly good.

>>55191354
>Sorscha 3 is the prime example of providing something no one wanted

Speak for yourself. I didn't know I wanted it, but I do now. She looks great. I've got no problem with warcasters going through drastic changes, it's not like Sorscha1 & 2 no longer exist.

>>55211773
I appreciate that Vyre lights are good enough to take jack casters outside of Forges now

>>55190176
>Total War: Iron Kingdoms

I could see it. Do it like Empire Total War with an emphasis on cluttered rubble filled battlefields and trench strewn no-mans-land and it would be really solid. Total War has the capacity to not just be huge open battlefields.

You know what we need
An Iron Kingdoms RTS
Gimme Dawn of Warmachine and I'll be happy

>>55212617
or an Isometric RPG like Pillars of Eternity in IKRPG. And do the combat encounters in an Xcom kind of tactical style.

>>55199368
>you should consider shut up and play.

Your fat is showing through

>>55213484
Well at least they're off playing games and not posting on 4chan

>>55212617
>Gimme Dawn of Warmachine
Considering what Dawn of War did for 40k that would be awesome but I don't think it's going to happen. Games like that just cost too much money and are too much of a gamble to be worth making on a relatively unknown IP

>>55213659
>Well at least they're off playing games and not posting on 4chan

But he posted on 4chan anon

>>55210625
Disagree. +1 pow and one more shot per 9 point light. It's actually better than chargers.

>>55214500
Chargers have powerful attack

>>55212617
I'd love a Dynasty Warriors-style game.
- Super-solo warcaster/warlock kills mooks by the hundreds
- You put their spells in as strong attacks in combos
- Feat = Musou attack.

Not sure of the best way to do warjacks/warbeasts; maybe put in some kind of mechanic where you temporarily inhabit the warjack/beast and use it in combat.

>>55214500

Chargers are better than Grenadiers if you can consistently allocate them 1 every turn, ROF 3 Grenadiers are better past that.

The correct choice is a mix of both. Chargers have a more reliable output with focus but Grenadiers can compete with no focus allocation. assuming you bring the Trencher mechaniks to reload the Grenadiers

>>55211773
Yes. I had to face four of them under Ossyan and they do stuff.

>>55211773

Between this and the chronomancy one, Ossyan really outdid himself with new designs. Though I think the Harpy is the better of the two, if the more simple one.

It's weird when I can describe a flying, multi-shot thunderbolt forcefield jack as 'the simple one'

>>55212617
Considering how piss-poor a job PP did with Warmachine Tactics, it's probably best they don't.

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>>55211065
Made a proxy out of shit in my room after one game with her.

>>55211968
>>55217465
Anyone seen the Siren in action?

I get the impression it'll see the least use out of the two, but it's got decent hitting power for a Light and Oracular Vision could make it surprisingly survivable.

>>55215397
>>55217287
No they don't. Against hard targets the difference between Rat 9 shots that are vs aren't boosted is negligible. Whether or not you allocated extra focus the grenadiers does more work against high arm targets.

Average damage against a Juggernaut:

Only power up, no calamity:
Grenadier - 12.5
Charger - 7.5

One extra focus, no calamity:
Grenadier - 16
Charger - 11

Only powerup, with calamity:
Grenadier - 18.5
Charger - 11.5

One extra focus, calamity:
Grenadier - 22
Charger - 15

I assume you're noticing that the Grenadiers are considtently averaging higher than the Chargers?

>>55218084
>PP doing a video game

They really should. They could kickstarter it, only deliver half the content on release, make sure it's buggy as fuck and is plagued with constant problems.

That way they can be consistent with their electronic IP

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Now that Haley2 finally got axed a bit, can we maybe get some "adjustments" for Denny1 after all these years of misery?

Like at least making the feat LOS based or something?

>>55221406
Ok, can we get more PS on our jacks then?

>>55221726
Sure why not. The Slayer can have POW 14 Horns

>>55221726
If you agree to up their cost, sure.

Cryxians whining about their 'jacks is completely ridiculous. Your warjacks are accurate, fast, and almost always have a bunch of initials with high PS. Plus you have the best ability to raise effective PS in the game.

>>55222148
>high PS
>16

>Plus you have the best ability to raise effective PS in the game.
Yeah, with casters like Deneghra.

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>>55220497
You don't get how Caine works. If you're shooting hard targets you're losing. He and his chargers exist to assassinate people and the longer range on chargers and powerful attack is why you take them. Cause, you know, casters tend to have a higher defense than the Juggernaut

>>55223000
16 if you're a moron maybe. You basically have Dark Shroud on command and Parasite is a pretty common spell. This is a game of synergy and combos, use them

>>55223000
1. Not many warjacks have two PS16 initials, let alone those plus a third slightly lower PS one.

2. You have the best access to damage fixing out of any faction. Those PS16s can easily become 18+.

Continue to whine you absolute faggot.

>>55223000
... And how would the suggested nerf take away from that?

The reason Haley got hammered and whined about for years is because the feat used to be a brain dead "I win now" button.

Denny's feat is just as powerful, so if she at least had to reveal herself to use it rather than be completely safe while being anywhere within 14" is dumb.

>>55223664
I have always been of the opinion that it should be her command range
10" is so much less oppressive than 14"

>>55224117
See: Wurmwood

It actually feels good to play against him nowadays.

I mean, as much as possible at least. Because it's Wurmwood.

>>55224178
>AOE7-8 POW24 blast that RFPs models
Yeah it feels really good playing against that bullshit.

>>55163662
It looks like : "Buy our stock of enigma foundies plz k thx cya the theme list"

>>55190586
Well I wouldn't mind if the basic game rules weren't shit upon by the recent edition change.

I still can't get over how something as simple as "can't charge a KD model" got through proofreading.

Then power attacks? Srsly. Removing power attacks wasn't the solution because you still have to look up the remaining ones in the book every time.
Laser guided throws lol. Nicely simplified.

I bet it was Soles that did this.

World Team Championship lists are up:

https://conflictchamber.com/?event=15

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>>55163862
I don't get this change. He's going effectively from RAT 6 to RAT 7.
As I CoC player I'm not complaining. I just don't get it.

>>55224837

Most Convergence players already have that amount of Engima Foundries from Mk2. You know what I'm pretty sure most Convergence players already own the whole faction.

>>55224953
The thing about the attacks removed(Push and Locks) was that neither one was used in any intended way, and only used to abuse loopholes.

>>55220497

The comparison isn't that simple. There are instances when the boosted attack rolls for the Charger will make them more consistent against higher DEF targets, like targeting casters for instance.

Chargers also threat further than Grenadiers, and aren't tied down to Trenchers for their full damage output. A single unit of Trencher Mechaniks could realistically fully load 2-3 Grenadiers, any more than that I don't see how it doesn't negatively affect the lists mobility and positioning.

The raw damage comparison is completely the wrong way to compare two ranged jacks. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

>>55225536
This. Only thing I don't own is the Conflux because it's fucking garbage

>>55225516
First incarnation he was Mat 5/Rat 6
Last incarnation he was Mat 5/Rat 5 but had the ability to gain +2 Mat or Rat upon activation
This incarnation he's Mat 4/Rat 5 and maintained the configuration ability.

Meaning, he's Mat 6/Rat 5 whenever there needs to be melee work, or he's Mat 4/Rat 7 whenever there needs to be shooting done.
If you optimize your turns, he's actually got the potential to be Mat 6/Rat 7 but that stresses order of activation.

>>55225350
What a garbage event

>>55225685
Then fix it. PP got into the current mess by removing and adding chunks around the issue instead of fixing the damned issue

>>55226509
Sure, but the issue was that the attacks weren't worth it, and there's no real way to make them worth it.

Plus, they also were part of the "trying to simplify the game" revisions. Because Arm and Head Locks were complicated as fuck for zero benefit 99% of the time, for example, and push was this weird auto hitting attack that almost no one really understood.

>>55226509
Did anyone even use head/armlocks on enemy models and not on your own? I feel like most of the time it was just better just to hit them with a normal attack.

>>55226859
You only ever used them to stop your own models from being moved. It was rarely used as intended

>>55226859
I used armlocks with my colossal many times to win me games.

I also threw my own models a lot. It was fun.

PP hates fun (and competence) though now.

>>55226859
That's why locks should do STR damage.

>>55227768
>I used armlocks with my colossal many times to win me games.
Couldn't you just have punched them instead and get more out of it

>>55228260

No. It wasn't a sure thing to kill an ARM 24 jack, that would end up contesting a flag.

Arm lock with colossal is a sure thing though.

And again, throwing your own models was fun. It was an open rule set, that made it fun.

But, like most things in Mk 3, they made everything samey and took away the fun stuff. I think they're out of ideas because the ruleset just doesn't allow for much creativity.

>>55158045

Super natural Pirate queen in command of a ghost ship.

>>55228712
No, they just took out the broken and/or unnecessary stuff and now the salty piss-babies are mad because they can't cheat anymore and/or have to play the game like everyone else.

>>55230133
inb4 shitposter frothing at the idea that throwing your own giant robot/monster at your opponent's caster for EZ no-brainer kills isn't perfectly fair

>>55230133
>salty piss-babies
I'm one of the guys who actually likes mk3 here, but come on.
What are you, 5?

>keep trying out Thyron lists
>every time I show up to the LGS the resident sperghard starts parroting the same "lol y put Thyron on de table when he won't be there long enuf to play gaem" routine
Fuck you buddy, Thyron's one of the two Ret casters with the flair to keep me painting on weekday nights
Next week I'll have to find out if he can stop shittalking long enough to actually face down a modified AFG Defender meme list

>>55233203
What's your list anon?

>>55233293
Previous lists have been variations of Imperatus/Banshee/Manticore battlegroups with Sentinels and a pile of solos to castle around Thyron or flank with Storm Rager.

To try something other than melee_goodstuff.list, I'm looking at this:
Theme: Defenders of Ios
2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Thyron, Sword of Truth - WJ: +27
- Fane Knight Guardian - PC: 0
- Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Griffon - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Griffon - PC: 8 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1)
- Sphinx - PC: 13

Arcantrik Force Generator - PC: 17

Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen - PC: 0
- Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen (Continued)
Lys Healer - PC: 3
Houseguard Thane - PC: 4

Houseguard Halberdiers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
- Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
Heavy Rifle Team - Leader & Grunt: 4
Heavy Rifle Team - Leader & Grunt: 4

The Griffons don't really fit with the gunline theme, so I may swap them for a Hydra and an S. Escort for the Halberdiers if they don't work out.

>>55233404
Not bad I use a list like this

https://conflictchamber.com/#c5201b_-0zf14E4EhQ3y3y3y3LfW4JfYhL3u3536hT

Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Defenders of Ios

(Thyron 1) Thyron, Sword of Truth [+27]
- Banshee [18]
- Banshee [18]
- Fane Knight Guardian [0(4)]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen [0(8)]
Lys Healer [0(3)]
Heavy Rifle Team [4]
House Ellowuyr Swordsmen (max) [16]
- House Ellowuyr Swordsman Officer & Standard [5]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
Houseguard Halberdiers (max) [13]
- Houseguard Halberdier Officer & Standard [4]
Arcantrik Force Generator [17]

It does okay rng 14 knockdown with assail cycled is a thing as well as Parrying side stepping Swordsman. Use the Haberdiers as your first wave and follow up with the swordsman. Use the slam guns to delay the opposing heavies and the Force cricket turn one to slow them down. You can switch two arcanist out for a Houseguard Thane but I like the extra focus/ +2 Dmg on the jacks more. I plan to replace a banshee though with two Harpies when they get released for the extra cleaves and extra rng shots with thunderbolt.

>>55230346
PLAY LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR
IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE STRAIGHT TALK THIS AIN'T THE GAME FOR YOU

>>55225536
>>55225733
I own two EF and I was gonna buy the other two needed, but then I realised something: Eilish Garrity is coming out soon and I can use the free solo for him, and most times I'll be wanting to run a SSP as well so I can protect my caster a little strongly too.

>>55145455
>>55152946
>>55153052
Damn, that skarre-on-boat thing is terrible. No way that model comes out looking good. Nevermind the concept is ridiculous... if you're going to have some ghost magic that shrinks a ship down and makes it float, why not have it be the whole ship? Or at least make it just the prow... have her flying out of the waves riding a monstrous figurehead or something. Instead we get the busted-up aft end, hovering precariously on a axiomesque cloud of ghost farts, and magically scaled down to 20% size (with cartoon proportions) so that it fits on the base.

>>55229032
>Super natural Pirate queen in command of a ghost ship.
Ghost BOAT. It's a boat. A small one.

Going on what we know from the old Pirates book, an IK ship-of-the-line probably has launches bigger than this little thing.

If we're talking about ridiculous things, then as someone who plays Ret, do I have a question for you:

- Why do so many Ret casters not have a kit that points in the same direction?

My personal favorite caster in Ret is Helynna. There are better jack casters in the game, but everything in her kit points in the same direction. She really wants to run jack heavy, and has an entire kit built to do that.

Then you have shit like Ravyn. Her feat is Deadeye for your army in range, she has Snipe, also Thresher and Vortex of Destruction?

Don't get me started on Goreshade4, Thyron, or Kaelyssa. Kaelyssa might seem like an odd inclusion, but from the games I've played with her, her kit doesn't all point in the same direction either. Just the parts that do work better than others, perhaps.

Then there's other questions. Like what theme are you supposed to play Vyros1 in?

I really dislike how they're handling themes right now. What I'd want them to do is pick 3-4 casters for each theme, then hone those casters (pick one direction for their kit, get everything pointed in that direction), and then have that one thing they're focused on be something the theme force wants.

Not saying that Ret needs more powerful casters, just give me more damn casters whose entire kit points in the same damn direction please.

>>55230324
I think your statements are mixed up.

>>55230133
No one cheated. It was in the rules

>>55226859
Armlock would be a good way to prevent enemy from killing your heavy back if you can't kill it yourself. Should've stayed.

>>55238640
Ret has always been the adaptive, toolbox faction. It's the reason that almost all your jacks come with a gun and a melee capability, why half your infantry can do both jobs, and yes, why all your casters have various tactics they can attempt.

>>55226859
Armlocks were good before they got nerfed into the ground, there were even several light warjacks whose entire purpose was to armlock and headlock stronger models so you could stick them in place while preventing them from killing people.

However, when it came time for Colossals, people were using armlocks to completely incapacitate the things by preventing them from moving and preventing them from attacking, and since they have to attack in arcs they could stay there indefinately. Models like the Avatar could walk up to a colossal, armlock with no problems, then beat them to death over a few turns making that investment worthless.

PP removed armlocks because they've been removing everything that lowers the value of their higher-priced higher-value models like Colossals and also tactics to stall or delay the game, since not running all your forces into brutal melees first or second turn made the kiddies too bored.

>>55238640
Kaelyssa is meant to be a toolbox.

Ravyn and Thyron are just poorly designed overall, especially Thyron. I see what they're going for with Ravyn, in that she's meant to be a caster that offers maneuverability and guerrilla tactics before going in for the kill, but she doesn't have the stuff to make Vortex of Destruction good. The only Thyron does is make Garryth even less appealing, which Elara now does to both of them.

>>55240722
>armlock and headlock stronger models so you could stick them in place while preventing them from killing people
That reminds me, the first 'jack I ever bought was a Gorgon because I thought a medium base that could immobilize models automatically was an awesome tool.
That was back before I realized how lethal Warmahordes is in melee.

>>55240872
But Elara2 can't gunline meme! Who better to lead my space artillery cricket around than a big gundam swordsman?

>>55238640
I might be misunderstanding, but it sounds like you just want all your casters to be one-dimensional? Question is: why? Casters that are all "in one direction", as you say, usually are not that great to play. They tend to be very inflexible in how you build their lists (since the best choice is obvious), and get hard countered when they run into the wrong matchup. No disagreement about Ravyn being weak, but not sure I understand why you reference her. She's the definition of a "all one direction" caster, being entirely focused on the ranged alpha / assassination plan with no Plan B to back it up.

Personally I'd much rather have a toolboxy caster like Kaelyssa, Vyros1, Rahn, or even 4shade, as compared to a focused single-plan caster like Garryth or Helynna (or Ravyn). The difference is that the former class of casters always have the ability, and bring the kind of lists, to be adaptable on the table. They give you the option to outplay your opponent, even when you're in a "bad" matchup. Casters that very heavily favor one particular strength often win or lose at list selection - if you run into the wrong list, there's very little you can do.

>>55236813

My mistake, a literal ghost boat.

>>55240722

Hmmm.... pretty smart.

I never thought of that in mk2, but nothing could arm lock my conquest...

>>55241199
You came in late then.

Abby 1 playing god on raek that leaps on the other side of the colossal and locking it was a very well known trick.

>>55241104
I don't think Rahn is a toolbox in the same sense.

He does one thing extremely well, in a way that opens up a ton of opportunities. His kit is focused on control, turning each turn into a puzzle game where you have virtual impunity to place whatever wherever it needs to be. Either way, he has a very definite playstyle - knock things over, control the board, use magic. You always know what's coming when you face Rahn, know what you're doing as Rahn. The question is whether you as a player can pull it off well enough.

Kaelyssa is a legit toolbox with a slight inclination toward magic denial and caster assassination, and Vyros is versatile but definitely leans toward wanting heavy infantry and a fair number of 'jacks. 4shade and Thyron are just confused as fuck, doing nothing particularly well. Ravyn is also rather confused: you say she's focused on the ranged alpha, but in reality there's a lot more to her, it's just that those elements of her kit are sub-par so people only ever bother with the shooty stuff.