Starfinder General /sfg/

>>55005632
Fuck off and die. Reported.

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Skill chance for an Operative with skills based on primary and secondary stats

>>55005669
Paizo fags already this fucking salty?
I mean, starfinder looks like a dud they are selling as the real thing, but you don't need to be this hostile

>>55005812
Eh. Starfinder looks to include a car crash or two, but isn't a full-fledged train wreck.

>>55005858
You do realize it only takes two cars crashing to create a pileup, right?
I'll be watching from from an overpass nearby. Should be fun.

>Just realized Skill Focus is now an insight bonus instead of a typeless bonus and does not stack with skill bonuses granted by mechanic, operative, or envoy
Shit

>>55006059
The feat exists for classes that are not as good at skills to catch up in the curve

>>55006038
I'm a Traveller guy at heart, so Starfinder is mostly another thing to mine for ideas and bits.

>>55005741

Can you please explain a bit more of what we are looking at?

>>55006206
Fucked skill math.

Is it just me or is the pdf for the GM screen a rip-off at $13.99? I'd pay that for the physical one, though.

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>>55005741
60%-70% seems fine to me
why is this bad?

>>55005632
Not everything has to be animu girls. If you're going to try and start every thread, why not try for a little more variety than yet another generic waifu with nothing else of interest? Get creative! Even anime can be more imaginative than this.

>>55006235
It's fucked skill math, but there's no effort for readability at all.

>>55006398
>>55005741
Echoing this question; I get that it probably is bad but at this point I don't know enough to see why.

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>>55005632
no one wants to post in your shit thread with shit image OP. you are shitting up this general and ruining for people that actually care about talking about the game. i get that your probably just a weeabo transexual troll but seriously, fuck off. fuck off and stop doing this shit. its obnoxious.

go fag up the pathfinder thread if you cant control your niggerdom for longer than 5 seconds.

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>>55005741

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Tell me about the Operative you're building, /sfg/.

>>55006766
I'd operate her if you know what I mean wink wink.

>>55006448
I wasn't saying it was bad. Just showing what it was, it looks to be on purpose. With an 18 primary and a skill bonus from operative/mystic/mechanic/technomancer you should be looking at 70% chance of success on a normal skill check, like bluff or intimidate, which is 15+CR*1.5

+ is if that stat gets the first personal improvement, - is if it gets the second

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Why the fuck is Perception not a class skill for Soldiers?

>>55006931
Because.

>>55006931
They got rid of 2+Int skill ranks, they had to find some way to shaft the Fighter.

>>55006931
Same reason that mystic and technomancer spells lists share so many of the same spells and neither spell list has a well defined theme

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>>55006854
so the skills seem completely 100% fine.
good.

>>55007008
Until you get to starship combat...

>>55006931
To let others scout for you

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>>55007018
i would like to see a starship combat graph, actually. i bet it snot as bad as you homosexuals say it is.

>>55007018

Where even with the literal maximum skill bonus possible in the ruleset at level 20, you can't make the required check on a 20.

A system where the same action gets harder on the more advanced ship. Great idea.

>>55006931
Because there's a feat for that, so it's fine if the class for being good on the battlefield doesn't have a skill that's vital on the battlefield. Because they're also the class that gets lots of feats.

>>55007070
>>55005463

>>55007081
It's possible to make an 84 dc check with max roles on an envoy... but yeah the 3*tier checks don't work for any normal expectations of success

>>55007081
I dont mind the idea of more advanced ships being a bit harder to run, but i wish it at least scaled evenly with skill ranks so you'd have the same chance as both you and your ship got better evenly over time, but you would feel an improvement as your ability scores increased and you picked up other bonuses to get a bit of an edge.

I know very little about the workings of the system so i get this is probably impossible to do practically tho.

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>>55005741
Now the chances for an Envoy. The best class for skills, but not every skill can be boosted.
For comparison against an opponent with a master skill,19+1.5*CR, subtract 20% from your chance of success.

>>55007070
The star-ships 3*tier don't work as well
The 2* tier might be fine with the ships computer bonuses and stuff like that

Guys. Guys!
Campaign idea: Starship Ravenloft.

>>55006931
most feats are worthless, so you can spare a skill focus/synergy for perception.

>>55007141
>>55007196
P. 322, "Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or item."

No one is competent in space. Not even the Operative. Not even the Envoy.

>>55006961
>>55006979
>>55006994
>>55007028
>>55007085
So because paizo are trash and expect you to spend a bunch of your feats just to attain basic competence at things that should be there from the start?

Also I haven't looked at the casters yet but are tgey really that much alike? Should have been polar opposites with "Mystic" and "Technomancer".

>>55007342
Class features are more important than spell lists
Also feat taxing does not really exist anymore, you can easily spend feats on stuff you want

>>55007363
Or stuff you need but aren't provided, like Perception as a class skill, right?

>>55007444
"need"

>>55007270
This particular idea tickles me in a special way

>>55007270
Don't suggest campaign ideas when we don't even have a single campaign up.

>>55007444
What classes would be okay without perception as a class skill?

>>55007320
They don't affect crew actions, but they do affect the skill checks, which you use for crew actions, clear RAI

>>55007444
Its just a +3 man

>>55005632
>How can you do comfy sci-fi adventures in Starfinder?
Planning a Necrovite who's actually a pretty chill dude.

>>55007488
Envoy, mystic, technomancer, really any of them that aren't primary combat careers. So only the soldier and operative really need it as a must have.

>>55007534
suboptimal, ree?

>>55007554
Thank you, that's a good answer. Maybe Solarian too, but I'll accept that as an edge case.

>>55007534
I don't really care about the +3 as much as the implications of it. The primary combat class doesn't have one of the most critical combat skills on its class list? The career soldier isn't expected to have good situational awareness?

>>55007534
Have you seen the DC scaling?

>>55007463
Well unless you want to blunder into ambushes and not notice enemy forces with your professional soldier and all?

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>>55007196
chance 14 is the chance for a skill that uses a stat that starts with a 14 and uses your +2 stat boost at 14

chance 10 is the chance for a skill that uses a stat that starts with a 10 and uses your level up bonuses

this is for classes not using the scaling bonuses of operative/envoy/mystic/mechanic/technomancer

>>55007606
If you want to be perceptive soldier, it is feats away.
Soldier is more about being the Heavy Weapons Guy than being elite SEAL guy

>>55005741
>>55007196
>>55007625
My takeaway - specialists with a scaling class bonus have an unstable but semi-consistent competence level depending on how much they invest. Non-specialists with an applicable bonus still have some shadow of a chance. Solarians are highly unstable because they get +1d6 instead of a static bonus. Soldiers get no bonus, and are shafted harder and harder as they level.

>>55007660
Sounds like an NPC class then. Which makes sense given thst's all the Fighter was/is, a Warrior with feats.

>>55007759
Don't be daft
You are a party, one of you will have ranks in perception with class skill bonus

>>55007705
Soldiers have more feats, frees up feats to take skill focus, I think they're even with Solarians.

After level 10 both won't be competent

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>>55007196
>>55007625
>>55005741
nice work anon.
i got inspired by you and made some charts about drone DPS

>>55007783
The issue is it not making any sense for the class that's so combat focused to be untrained in awareness. Really, give me one good reason for anyone else but the Operative to be better at spotting enemies, traps or suspicious details around them.

I have no idea what the fuck is going on here, but could someone direct me to the nearest Codex Astartes?

>>55006766

I've actually not read through the Operative class in depth. Although I like the idea of some crazy innawoods person who's survived in various environments.

>>55008027
>innawoods
pffft that /k/ meme is old and busted.
the new hotness is operators operating operationally unnaground

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>>55007981

>>55006498
Um... I'm pretty sure there are no opinions in math. It's just... math.

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>>55008160
its almost as if a large portion of 4channers are retarded niggers

>>55008027
Operative is more SpecOps, but could maybe be some crazy survivalist if you wanted. Compare to the Soldier for other /k/ memes, tbough soldier I have been told is more "Durr.. me have gun!"

>>55008160
Math has been used through the ages to bolster opinions
Just because it is math, does not mean the math is not based on an opinion

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>>55005632
does anyone know how energy resistance works in this game? i cant find it in the damn book.

>>55007981
>but could someone direct me to the nearest Codex Astartes?

Report to your nearest Knight-General or Cathedral Ship for further orders.

>>55008207
>math is not pure fact.
take your postmodernist faggotry out of here

>>55008091
>>55008192

I see. Granted the soldier doesn't come off as a meathead especially when you consider the one that lets you do magic shit although if you wanted to do "Me have gun, it be big gun" then I suppose you could the same way Operative could be transformed into Rambo or Dutch

>>55008207
There are no opinions actually stated in the post that was replied to. Just the pure math.

>>55008212
>does anyone know how energy resistance works in this game? i cant find it in the damn book.

What do you mean? It works exactly as you expect it would; someone with Fire Resistance 5 who gets hit by a laser for 6 damage will only take 1 damage. There is also a feat that gives you Resistance 5, but you need to assign what the Resistance is for (it can also count as flat DR.)

>>55008239
>>55008243
The scaling of DC is literally his opinion

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>>55008246
its just DR for a energy type?
cool
that seems really good in a game that half the weapons deal fire damage

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I JUST WANT TO BE A BIG TOUGH SOLDIER-MAN AND ALL YOU GUYS ARE SAYING I'M A BIG FAT DUMBIE.

>>55008265
No, that's straight from the book...

>>55008311

But anon, lots of girls like them big and stupid.

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>>55008311

You go ahead and be the big strng soldier and if they make fun of you you shoot them, or punch them, or do both.

That said, pic related I had an idea for a high tech bow with special arrows so with stuff like cryopikes and what not it shouldn't be too hard to convert them into arrows.

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>>55008311
I can't stand to see you this way. Come get a hug you big, lovable idiot!

I'm coming from years of Pathfinder, where do I start with Starfinder?

What are the key differences?

>>55008399

>High tech bow
>Wanting to use a 1d6 ranged weapon

>>55008443
there is space

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>>55008392
>>55008420
I don't know if you're making fun of me, and I don't believe you that Starfinder girls want a big, burly meathead to princess-carry them about the ship.

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>>55008475
its ok anon, grills dont care what you say. its all about how you say it. so effectively, you can sub your cha for int with all grill interactions

>>55008445

Well I'm thinking the power would mostly be in it's utility.

>Cryoarrows - Either hit a target and do cold damage or hit the ground and create difficult terrain where they slip

>Pyro arrows - Deal fire damager or create difficult terrain setting the ground on fire

>Arc arrow - Deal electricity damage or shoot into something like water and make everyone do the 440 dance

>>55008475
>>55008506
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaJQA6w2stw

>>55008475
>I don't believe you that Starfinder girls want a big, burly meathead to princess-carry them about the ship.
Well that's because you're dumb. It's pretty obvious to a smooth operator like me.

>>55008445
I wish there were more types of arrows that were less expensive. Like 0 edge arrows and less expensive grenade arrows that scaled better. The idea has traction in my opinion, it just doesn't have the rules to make it viable.

>>55007196
The 2*tier stuff isn't as bad, a reasonably optimized pilot can make the death star to acrobatics on a 10+ and do advanced stuff on a 15+. The captain is pretty fucked though, everyone else will be able to manage on a ship matching their tier. The system is far from perfect, it has been rushed out the door for gencon and is in need of revision but a lot of the issues are overblown (probably the same people that made a new lower tier for Pathfinder every time they saw a class they didn't like).

>>55008475

Of course they do, anon. Sure, it's mostly ysoki who are into that, but there are other kinds of girls who like it too.

>>55008657
Vesk girls are gaga for any dude that can lift them off the ground. It's a primal instinct thing.

>>55008657
>Sure, it's mostly ysoki who are into that

And Lashunta, you better believe each and every one of those girls want to feel like a princess.

>>55008677

>[Mating growls intensifiy]

>>55008759

>[Deposits egg clutch inside her lover's open chest cavity]

>>55008753
>You will never be a delicate Damaya Lashunta
>You will never get tuckered out miles from camp
>You will never be picked up by the strength-focused Human Soldier and carried for the last few minutes of the trek
>You will never use your latent telepathy to read his mind and notice his feelings for you

>>55008657
>>55008677
>>55008753
>>55008759
>>55008778
>>55008832
https://pastebin.com/zUGVAmbf

>>55008851
>>55008851

Well, we have a chance to make our own memories with Starfinder. I'm hoping near the beginning of next month I'll be set to try and do some Roll20 shit.

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>>55005632
does DR and energy resistance stack?

>>55008907
>Implying that it's not going to be the exact same shit in a slightly different, neon colored pile

>>55008970
No, DR is simply damage reduction for things like bullets and blades.

>>55008980
The battle to claim independence from /pfg/ has been a struggle, between shit OPs and people trying to bring pantheon bullshit over, but we continue.

We must take the fight into roll20, establish a different standard for games, one without lewds, without comfy.

So! Who's keen on technomancer?

>>55009051
I would be, but rolling Mechanic for that party balance.

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>>55009051
are the spells any good? alot fothem seem the same as in pathfinder

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>>55007812
So I was thinking about this and decided to see just how hard they're getting shafted. In some ways, not as bad as I thought. In some ways, worse than I thought. Since the Solarian runs so close to the Skill Focus Soldier, I didn't include it separately - the numbers mostly stand on their own. SF Solarians would have it marginally better, since that brings up their minimum if they roll poorly on their bonus, but it's only about a 0.5 average increase.

Short version: You can take 10 and succeed on an equal-level check if you have skill focus in something that keys off a your main stat that started at max value, except at levels 18 and 19 because 1.5 rounded down does that. If you start at 16 or 17, you're still good for taking 10 up until level 18, but you don't recover at 20. Getting a reliable take 10 for most of the character's lifespan is actually better than I feared it might be.

But if you don't have skill focus, or if it's a skill keyed to a secondary ability, or if you can't take 10, you start off adequate and get increasingly and irrecoverably worse vs. the scaling DC of 10+1.5*CR.

>>55009139
Vs. the scaling DC of 15+1.5*CR, because I am literate and can type.

>>55009130
What happened to her ass?

o-o

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>>55009139
ouch.
the lack of a special tool or ability really hurts.
thats probably 90% of the problem with starship combat

>>55009163
what do you mean? whats wrong with it?

>>55009139

And you can improve on this baseline with equipment and items? Or did you factor that in?

>>55009051
I am, I'm sticking to my guns despite the apparent nerfing of the token int based full caster class.

>>55009130
Most of the spells are blasty now and some of the defenses that you took for granted like mirror image have been nerfed. It indirectly has a polishing the turd effect which makes spells like displacement look good.

I'm not sure if haste or slow is just as good in this game since full attacks are capped at two attacks (unless you have an automatic weapon). One off utility spells like knock, tongues and life bubble are a bit of a bitch now that the class is no longer prepared and wands are no longer a thing. There are still scroll equivalents so maybe you can get by with using that. While some spells like healing junkbot literally doesn't work at all. Touch attacks aren't as good since EAC is raised by equipment so even the pretty shitty disintegrate will probably miss hella often even with the 3/4 BAB and relatively easy stat increases for dexterity.

All in all, the class seem's to be a bit more focused on blasting since spells like glitterdust are less common and blasts start at full power the level you get them which considerably outperforms most level equivalent weapons.

>>55009026
>The same popularity contest
>Probably run by the same people
>Probably getting applied for by mostly the same people

I don't think you're going to get the result you're hoping for, anon.

Anywhere to get the Incident at Absalom pdf? I don't want to buy it twice, don't want to wait till I get the physical to start on it

>>55009253
What equipment and items?

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>>55009309
neat. thats probably the direction they needed to go. alot of the game breaking fuckery came from those control and utility spells. i noticed the spell list is super fucking short. in this book too

>>55009253
There are a small number of items that allow you to improve a small handful of checks with non-Insight bonuses that would thus stack with Skill Focus, but I didn't include them. I'm not aware of many anyway, nevermind items that both boost a strength or dex skill - the two stats a Soldier would consider maximizing - that also stack with Skill Focus.

They're just not relevant to the primary stat. Or, most likely, the secondary stat. And you're not pumping a tertiary high enough to get over this even with a +2 circumstance bonus to specific engineering checks.

>>55009387
Apparently /pgg/ had a better Starfinder pastebin than /sfg/, we should update that: https://pastebin.com/BBVzM7tm
As for Incident at Absalom: https://mega.nz/#!cnxVHQpK!2tHhVXCabl5sgB5mEbKB5Wdu1VRDnA4GDTXHnPlHeMY

>>55009425
Too bad because in a few splats I'm confident that my beloved pajama wearing old man will soon be a thing again.

>>55009481
Thanks my man

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considering ideas for a game, however after looking through the book it seems like powered armor can get a bit swingy and for most "mecha" ideas (not gundam size but closer to xcom MEC size) it seems that even the basic item levels are a little high.

anyone tried it out and have opinions/ideas to share?

>>55007828
Interesting, mind doing more? 10th, 15th and 20th would be real neat

>>55008970
No and yes; Damage resistance handles physical damage, such as knives and swords; but cannot deflect energy damage like fire.

Energy resistance handles it's energy type's damage, such as burns or electricity, but it cannot repel physical attacks.

If you have energy resistance; electricity, then being hit by an electric baton would reduce the electricty damage coming in, but not the blunt impact. Having damage resistance reduces the hit, but not the zap.

What class is the best for a ship medic?

>>55009139
>>55009480
Thinking on this some more, I should also note something else. The primary attribute that a Soldier is maximizing like this will be either Strength or Dex - Strength is only for Athletics. And Athletics doesn't use CR scaling DCs, so unless the Soldier is doing something really out there for their level, they should be good! They can even keep up with an Operative who ignores strength, for the most part.

But you can also get a climb or swim speed through feats. Jumping can be improved with a feat too, and equipment. But you can also get flight through equipment, so... how useful is that, really? What can a strength Soldier really do with the one skill they can put their everything into?

Dex, though? Dex is where this really hurts. Stealth? That can easily be even more punishing than 15+, since monsters can get up to 9+1.5*CR before rolling. Acrobatics? 15 or 20+1.5*CR depending on whether you're trying to avoid an AoO or move through their space.

So it's not just that the Soldier is shafted when it comes to their final skill values - the things they can maximize either have questionable broad utility or can reliably run up against an even higher DC than 15+ in situations where you're definitely not taking 10.

Soldiers kill well, but they suffer when they're not.

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>>55007008

If you're a skill monkey class.

Otherwise, you can get fucked.

anyone have a PDF of the GM screen?

Reminder that this is a troll thread created by a butthurt /pfg/ weeb and the real thread is here >>55009934

>>55010019
You're doing this 125 posts in and you're calling them butthurt?

>>55010060
Well of course, cuz he's butthurt that people aren't going to his special snowflake hard edgey thread.

>>55010019
Honestly wouldn't be surprised that's the same shitter that made this thread.

>>55009792
Mystic for magical healing and care, Envoy or Operative for mundane skills. Mechanic and Technomancer can do reasonably well because of their Int focus, but can't apply their skill bonuses to some of the skills.

>>55007828
>the second and chart don't have a hover drone line

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>>55010137
i agree that it is the same guy that made this thread.
i mad ehte last thread, and it wasnt me that made that otherone.

hes trying to discredit the effort to have threads without off topic anime faggotry, because hes a lonely virgin with an emotional attatchment to anime because hes never been with a woman

>>55010312
they stack

>>55010019
probably, but if we cut out all the threads started by butthurt autists crying out some variant of "stop liking what I don't like" there probably wouldn't be enough threads to justify the board's existence.

>>55006766
I'm building a soldier cos I'm not a fag

>>55009130
Saves are shit now. You can't get your DCs high enough to make same CR monsters fail on above a 10 or so.Your best spells will always be a <50% success rate.

>>55010749
It might be better to say that most of the attack actions have a 40-60% success rate

>>55010749
Completely maxed out DC's give you 50% success against weak saves, 25% success against strong saves.
I fucking hate this math.

>>55010809

That's if you've optimized fully. If you haven't, it's more like 30%, and that's going to get annoying fast.

>>55010836
Oh, hey Mash.

>>55010849
>Oh, hey Mash.
H-hi.

>>55007008
You have a 70% chance of success with the primary class-ability-backed skills of a specialized skill-monkey.

In other words, if it's not one of your mystic's two channeled skills, then even with 20 ranks and a good stat on a class skill your chance of success is closer to 50%, and it all goes down from there. Skills you did not max out may have had an okay chance to function originally, but at high levels quite flatly no longer work; the DCs are based on the encounter CR after all.

>>55007509
On the contrary. That little "nothing works in space" blurb was specifically written to counter operative bonuses and the like. The grand majority of class abilities have/had nothing to do at all with any of the starship rules otherwise.

The "intent" is to keep the operative and envoy from being infinitely better at everything in space than a soldier.

But the entire starships chapter is ill-designed to the point where one can only consider it a placeholder while they originally worked on an early alpha of the rules. Then someone had them spend a few weeks going back through the book and change all the gender pronouns or some dumb shit, and they forgot all about space.

>>55010932
Also rushing for gencon, as I heard it.

Which is a terrible, terrible idea for something you just make and be done with, let alone something you'll have to make content for for who knows how long.

>>55008598
You're saying that a reasonably optimized character is going to fail 70% of the time at doing things he used to be able to pull off reliably at lower levels.

That does not sound fine to me.

>>55010137
Just report em all and let mod sort em out.

>>55010981
I'm telling you, man. Bounded Accuracy.

Hell, you remove the bit where they increase the DCs at the same rate as they increase the basic stats and you HAVE got Bounded Accuracy, it's just buried under pointless bloat. Your Operative skill bonus goes from 1-6 over 20 levels. The difference between your good saves and your bad saves goes from 2-6 over 20 levels. That shit was in 3e.

Paizo built their position in the industry by copying 3e verbatim, then turned everything they liked from 4e into feats. They couldn't have stolen bounded accuracy from 5e while they were at it and given this game numbers with some self-consistency?

>>55011134
So you're saying this is a complete-shit variant on bounded accuracy they tried to sneak in, without even understanding what it was they were actually trying to do to pull it off?

>>55011244
But paizo.

>when your playing this because a RL friend likes pathfinder but you can't stand it

>>55011244
No, I'm saying that taking a number from 2 to 6 over the course of an entire twenty level character progression has been enough of an increase for seventeen years, but while Wizards have been trying to package that up in a simpler and more obvious way (and fucking up the presentation), Paizo have been hanging on to that original 3e maths (and fucking up the rules).

This game could have been built so that the numbers were flatter, like 5e was. If it had been, we wouldn't have these bonkers DCs to contend with. As is, they've scaled the DCs assuming players will use every option available to keep their skill modifiers high. Which means they're not really options, are they? You keep your mods high or you can't succeed.

And they've tried to counter that as well, by letting you increase four of your six stats every level and giving everyone enough skill points per level to max out every skill your character has access to. They expect you to minmax, so they've made it so you have to minmax, so they've made it so you can't NOT minmax. Same deal with the new ability score buy system that leaves the existing race mods in but makes them meaningless by pricing out the differences into nothing. Their system is flawed, but they counter this not by tearing it down and creating a new system but by adding more complications to balance out the existing complications.

They do this, because they know the only reason they're in the position they're in is because Wizards tried to make a new system from the ground up with 4e, fucked up the execution, and gave them an opening. Paizo are too scared to try something new, and as a result Starfinder has to deal with the years of accumulated design weirdness that comes from 17 years of 3e/d20 RPG.

Good lord all this talk of how shitty the maths is is just cementing the fact that if someone made a good port of the scifi bits and starships to 5e i'd probably drop this game like a sack of shit.

(Maybe dont port the ships actually, probably best to start over from the ground up)

>>55011636
I wish I had something with numbers and balance as tight as 5e, only with more than one release for content every year.

>>55011636
RT, DH2E and Only War are the tightest sci fi games in the hobby, maybe give that shit a look.

No kitsune foxbois tho so not sure if it makes it better or worse.

>>55007896
Cuz perception a smarty keen mind skill so everyone but the dumb dumb fighter and absent minded space-wizard have it.

>>55005632
I hate stupid animu trash pictures for the thread pic, but this one is at least cute, if you're gonna post animu do more cute and less of half-naked women who look like they belong in a hentai with a iPod strapped to their boob to make it 'Sci-Fi', please.

>>55011726
There's some fucked up issues with the equipment chapters and psi powers of only war.

Ruleswise I think the most solid of the bunch was black crusade

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>>55011726

Eh, kind of depends.

>>55011698
>5e
>tight math

Yeah that's only because the math never changes more that stat mod. It' a shit system.

>>55011770
There is still a caster disparity between games and OW was cut off from support before they could produce a splat for the specialists.

BC is great but only if the party remains consistent. One fucko going spess mehreen will ruin everyone but the psyker's experience.

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>>55011726
You can play as a kistune foxboi in Only War.

If you don't mind being summarily executed for being mutant scum

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Are there shields in Starfinder? The ones you carry around with you, as in you could have a light saber in one hand and a shield in the other?

Or is that all replaced by armor and armor upgrades now?

>>55011816
I've been in a 40krpg gen campaign and someone kept asking the GM to let them play a ratling refluffed as a feylinid. That's exactly how it worked out.

>>55011818
You can basically get a portable wall of force stuck to your arm if you're in power armor with an armor upgrade.

That's it.

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>>55010932
No it wasn't.......maybe......probably.......fucking paizo

>>55011844
>>55011818
Then what is the point of one handed weapons? If you're wielding a one handed weapon should you always use the other hand for another weapon?

Do you get to use both attacks from both weapons in your full attack at level 1?

I am confused.

>>55011948
Pistols? Different damage types?

>>55011948
Operatives use them, Solarians weapon is one handed so the other can hold a whip or a pistol

>>55011948
Full attacks are available as long as you have a FRA and are willing to take the -4 penalty. You can choose whichever weapon you have on hand as long as you are limited to two swings.

>>55011948
If you carry a one handed melee weapon, and a one handed ranged weapon (pistol), then you can shoot or stab without having to use a movement action to switch weapons.

>>55011993
>>55011981
>>55011962
Thanks, I am kind of disappointed that there aren't like miniforce shields or something like that, but that's what homebrew is for.

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>>55012017

Does seem odd, now that you mention it. Well, maybe a future release will have something.

>>55011962
>>55011981
>>55011993
>>55012010
You all forgot the most important part.

Style.

>>55011891
FAQs are not errata and paizo needs to shape the FUCK UP when it comes to the difference between the two.

rewriting rules in an FAQ is unacceptable.

>>55008475
I'm sure there's lots of Starfinder girls (male) who would like that though

>>55012127
>Paizo has been around for 15 years.
>Launched Pathfinder 9 years ago.
>Has basically an unlimited amount of time to develop Starfinder via all the Pathfinder cash, and announced the game a year ago.
>Game is released with lots of broken rules.
>Paizo staff starts rewriting rules in FAQ's and discord chats.

Are Paizo the tabletop equivalent of EA?

>>55012304
EA hates gamers, though they don't shit on people for keeping their penis.

... I honestly don't know.

>>55012304
>Are Paizo the tabletop equivalent of EA?
Did they buy WotC and then cancel everything they did and merge them into the fold while 'letting go' most of the employees?
Not much is as bad as EA.

>>55012304
Yes which is why you should not give your money to them or anyone except for me.

Is it my imagination or is Wisdom even better in Starfinder? You lose medicine (Heal) but gain Mysticism, which is the equivalent of 3 of the more important knowledge skills, spellcrafting, and even some crafting skills all wrapped into one skill. Meanwhile everyone gets more skill points and there are less skills. Intelligence is a lot less useful now.

>>55012344
Why should YOU still give them your money?

>>55012361
There is no reason to give them money. They want to kill me as I am a white male.

>>55005669
Reported for what? Shitty OP art?

Alright, I've been thinking on the skill curve again. What levels do you think the +2/4/6 personal upgrades can actually be expected to start? I copied the first chart anon here who ran through the Operative, Envoy, and other first and pegged them at 7, 14, and 20 just to keep things consistent with his stuff, but I feel like they might reasonably start getting bought earlier, and I'm not sure what reasoning went into putting them there for those charts.

>>55012582
3, 7, 14 is what they are at in the charts
Which is what level those items are

>>55012513
Because it was posted on page 4, anon.

So.

https://youtu.be/5FiNZvuOkzY

I've been listening to this, and it makes me want to do something about Solarians. Make them less... fiddly. Better. At least a little bit more connected to the fucking wonder that is space.

And also, given that Starfinder HAS FTL capability, you could use that to see past the Gap. Jump far enough away, and have a look for yourself.

>>55012761
Ah.

That always seems to be the case with these shitty OPs. If they wait too long, you might get an OP with art and an OP actually relevant to the game being discussed, and we wouldn't want that!

Thoughts?
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ujlp?Lets-Queer-Up-Starfinder

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>>55012753
Looking at it again, you are right. I am apparently illiterate, and I'm not sure whether to be impressed or annoyed by my own incompetence. Particularly since I uploaded a corrected chart and then immediately spotted an error in my data entry that meant it was still wrong.

In any event, have a fixed Soldier chart. Putting the ability boosts at the right levels makes things slightly better overall, but doesn't fix the core problem of them getting progressively worse for lack of any scaling skill bonus to anything.

>>55012888
I think you already know what this thread's thoughts are going to be.

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>>55012888

>>55012888

What is it with people and being touchy about the idea of magic and/or future science making it easy to change genders?

Peoples opinion on the Incident at Absalom Station adventure?

>>55012793
>Travel beyond the Rim: While other galaxies are known to exist, the distances between them and the galaxy of the Pact Worlds are so incredibly large that there have yet to be any confirmed instances of intergalactic travel using Drift technology.
>Whether this is due to the extreme travel times involved, limits to the reach of the Drift itself, or dangers encountered in the Drift during such attempts remains unknown.

>>55012888
This thread makes me not want to play Starfinder, now.

>>55013106
We don't know how far away 'the rim' is from Golarion though.

And it's only been what, couple thousand years?

>>55012888
>Humans- Eh, they're humans. Iconic is explicitly a lesbian though, so that's a good precedent. B+
>Technically, we don't know that, actually. She could be bisexual or pansexual just as easily. Or even asexual. All we know is that she once loved a woman.
Yeah what a fucking bigot. How are humans not SSS rank queers by default?

I haven't read all the way through Incident or the Society quest so maybe there's a demiplatonic genderqueer sexual adventure snuck in there later on but outside of a few weird gender concepts in the races for queerbaiting they're really kidding themselves here.

>>55012888
>Like /y/ and /u/ for fetish reasons
>Don't want to be mistaken as someone with a cause
Damn these people, let me degenerate in peace.

>have rules for custom ships
>no rules for custom weapons or crafting
why tho.

>>55013148
The Gap covered "several millenia", but SF is only 300 years after it ended. That's not even long enough that you'd need to leave the galaxy to see what happened just before AG 0.

Seriously, 300 light years? The Milky Way has a diameter of at least 100,000. You can do the math to figure out where you need to be to look at whatever point of time during the Gap and just go there.

Not that it would actually work. Because magic or something that keeps you from solving the mystery the easy, FTL space-age way.

>>55013254
You can go back to Absalom Station in 1d6 days, regardless of distance.

>>55013254
Apparently even physical written records got fucked up by the Gap, I doubt trying to use FTL to look at old shit would be any more reliable.

>>55012888
Notice how the op talks about liking the organs you were born with as though it was some disgusting aberration, and even dismisses folks who just want to switch what they have and be done with it.

Apparently it doesn't matter if you save the fucking planet because you've had your genitals since you were born, and are attracted to people with the opposite set of them. That's what's important in the grand scheme of things. Not being heroes, just "suffering struggles for being trans".

I'd be pretty offended, but apparently I'm not allowed because I haven't chopped off my own cock.

>>55013176
It's going to get bad. You and I both know there's going to be a zhe or xer.

>>55012793
Fairly certain that nobody in Paizo is even remotely aware that such a thing is possible. Reading thru their setting one becomes distinctly aware that they have little to no comprehension of actual science - only feels.

>>55013334
That would probably be the excuse they give if someone asks.

It's entertaining to think about though. The potential that when the gods hit the 'mindwipe' button, they didn't fuck around with the light, because even they didn't know it could be done back then.

>>55012888
Fuck this game, the fans are as broken as the rules.

Let it die in the cradle.

>>55013345
This is such basic fucking stuff though.

I mean what the fuck do they think we're doing with hubble? Seeing the stars as they are *right now*?

The whole point of FTL is that we have to break it to cross the distances involved inbetween stars. If we can't go dozens of times faster than light itself, we'll be dead of old age before we can get anywhere.

>>55013254
Walk me through this idea. You go 300 light years away and then what do you see?

>>55012888
Why is it that in these guys minds one can't change anything about their lives or outlooks without completely swapping out their genitalia? Can't that Drow CEO just fucking quit her job? Why would she automatically feel the need to grow a dick just because she decided to quit? Why do these fuckups assume everyone hates having organs as much as they do?

>>55013438
Unless I'm mistaken about what a light year is, you'd see things as they were 300 years ago.

So you hop back like, a thousand light years, and you'd be seeing light from 1000 years ago, into the Gap.

>>55013409
Well of course that's how the stars are right now! I'm looking RIGHT AT THEM! DUH!!!!!! ..... /sarcasm

>>55013438
You go 300 light years away, point your high science-fantasy observational equipment at where the Pact Worlds and Absolom were, and you see light from 300 years ago. Depending on its resolution, you're going to be able to figure out the star system pretty well, and see anything going on big enough to do things like make planets disappear.

You probably - and I say probably, because we're talking about magic and tech, not just tech - can't pick out fine details on planet surfaces, but you can definitely see things like whether you've still got all the planets there at all.

Or maybe you don't see anything, because the Gap.

>>55013472
The only way to change yourself is to change your genitals, you shitlord better understand gender fluidity in this universe is the NORM, not just a weird thing me and my friends beliefs!

>>55013438
Actually that's EXACTLY the idea.

When you look through a telescope, you're seeing light, right? Obviously. You're seeing light. You might also be detecting, depending on what sort of sensors you've got (radio, xray, microwave, etc) various other forms of EM radiation and transmissions.

But that 'light' (light's just the visible portion of the spectrum; radio and gamma are the same thing, just different frequencies) was emitted and/or reflected from somewhere. Might seem instant when you're looking in the mirror because it moves very fucking fast (299,792,458 meters per second roughly) but in space that takes a long time to get anywhere. The light we get from the sun takes about seven minutes to get to us.

If you go 300 light years away, the emissions and transmissions you see/spot/receive/etc are ones from 300 years ago. Because the ones from 150 years ago are only halfway to where you are. If you're 1000 light years from where you were, what transmissions, light, etc you receive? 1000 years ago. Anything earlier hasn't gotten to you yet.

If you receive an SOS that only travels at c, and it's from 50 light years away, then you're PROBABLY 50 years too late to intervene already, perhaps minus a few hours depending on what the emergency actually was.

But if you're looking for information... say something during the 'gap' sent out some messages? or before the gap, even? You may be able to overtake it and listen.

>>55013532
One thing to consider is that gods actually DO have spatial locations. They aren't just 'everywhere', they're actually in a place.

Tiamat is (Or was) explicitly really far away from Golarion, which is why she doesn't have much or any influence there.

Similarly, the Egyptian Gods fled Earth once that wonky divine quarantine they never expounded on kicked off.

>>55013582
>Similarly, the Egyptian Gods fled Earth once that wonky divine quarantine they never expounded on kicked off.
Which book was this in? Life Oracle of Maat wants to know.

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>>55012888
I'm sad Paizo had so many people interested in them at Gen Con? How is that for a thought?

>>55013617
I honestly can't remember. I might've read it on the pathfinder wiki.

But yeah, the Osirian gods aren't just 'no they're totally different gods', they straight up ARE the Egyptian Gods.

I'll see if I can find it.

Why do Ysoki look fine in the previews, and stupid in the core book?

They looked so well proportioned and now they look like bobbleheads.

>>55013617
Probably when people rose up against them for being evil parasitic snakes that curl up 'round your upper spine

>Earth
>Inhabitants: Humans, various forgotten magical creatures, Cthulhu.

This entertains me.

>>55013582
>Similarly, the Egyptian Gods fled Earth once that wonky divine quarantine they never expounded on kicked off

The Divine Quarantine was obviously so they can keep the nature of which God actually exists on Earth ambiguous, though they heavily implied Jesus and Moses and Muhammad and such were Solars.

>>55013677
This reminds me. I don't think I've ever came across a Stargate RPG, either as a standalone game or an add-on for an existing ruleset.

>>55010981
I assure you that no level 1 player is going to succeed to make a tier 20 ship do anything on a regular basis. Despite what the memesters say, it has been confirmed that APL is you max tier, it's not an automatic thing.

>>55012888
>I felt bad in Pathfinder, thinking about poor commoners whose bodies weren't right for them
Now there's a load of crocky bullshit. Commoners are thinking things like "do I get to eat this week" and "oh gods please save us the dragons are coming". People who don't already have all their basic necessities covered for them don't need to consider whether they were 'meant' to have something different in their pants. They actually know and understand why they're unhappy. It's the taxes, the starvation, the fires, being eaten or raped and pillaged by orc hordes, being conscripted and sent to die in the name of some rich asshole who wanted what some other rich asshole has in one of their fucking summer homes.

You don't start assuming that the reason you're unhappy is because you want to be someone you are not other than "if only I was rich too" unless you've already got life delivered for you on a silver platter. You don't decide it must be that you've got the wrong thing in your pants unless you've truly run out of reasons to be unhappy otherwise, and yet cannot accept the lack of distress and victimhood in your cushy life.

>>55013775
I'm going to want a source for that, since it directly contradicts the book.

>>55013807
The book flat out says 'Your tier is your APL'

>>55013749
There was a d20-modern stargate.
It was... d20-modern.

>>55013775
That's an outright lie. Everywhere in the book flatly states (and people have posted screencaps these in the previous thread) that ship tier = APL, with very rare and temporary exceptions (like if you're making your escape on a stolen shuttle). And these anons aren't talking about a level 1 failing in a tier 20 ship. They're talking about level 20s failing most checks most of the time in a tier 20 ship; checks they *used* to be able to reliably succeed at.

>>55013775
>despite what the rulebook says in clear, concise language in several locations so you can't miss it,

>>55013807
The demo game involved a level 1 party piloting a level 2 ship, not a level 1 ship. I agree it's worded sloppily but every example of actual play given so far indicates that the wording in the CRB is incorrect.

>>55013845
>There was a d20-modern stargate.
>It was... d20-modern.
Better d20-Modern than d20 Future.

>>55013775
The book disagrees with you.
In fact, even if the GM decides you can't spend your new BPs just yet, the tier and (at certain tiers) the ship's HP go up automatically.

>>55013840
...and that's why I'm asking for the source? I'm not sure why you're pointing that at me.

>>55013862
If that's the case, it's not "worded sloppily," it's outright worded wrong.

>>55013867
... I bought d20 mecha when it came out.
What a fucking waste.

>>55013880
Page 305 under Refitting and Upgrading Starships is one of them.

You can't possibly have missed it if you actually read the rules you claim to know better than we.

Man. Now I'm thinking about what things would be cool to give a not-crud Solarian.

Being able to turn into light to travel to different planets would be cool, but you'd still be limited to mostly just the solar system you're in.

Hrum.

>>55013903
you mean the 'd20 Mecha Compendium Deluxe Edition' hardback by Dream Pod 9?

>>55013804
Is that why mostly just people coasting on easy grades like 'gender studies' off their parents wallets focus on this stuff while they're in college, and those without serious mental imbalances eventually just grow up and get a job?

>>55013922
I'm not arguing against that, though. The claim was that it had been confirmed, externally, that the book was wrong. The claim was that APL is not tier, but max tier. I was asking for the source of that, since it directly contradicts the book.

Why do you think I was disagreeing with APL = Tier?

>>55005632
>>55005632
Less anime waifu bullshit OP please

>>55013950
Pretty much, people who are way into stuff like gender studies and equality are also incredibly easy to befriend, are often sexually libertine (easy ass) and have access to all the drugs and clubs.

When you're a gangly-limbed loser that has no chance of breaking into the "in" crowd, these people seem awfully appealing.

>>55013926
Worse.
d20 Mecha from... white wolf it turns out.

wow ... in retrospect I should've expected that since it was from them.

>>55013965
The examples in the game contradict that it's max tier. And the book itself is APL=tier.

Those "confirming" that the book is wrong had better be devs saying this in an official capacity, or they're lying defenders on the paizo forums trying to make it that we 'just don't understand'.

The book, adventures/demos and examples of play are clear as day about it after all.

>>55013979

Why, why does this bother you so much to make a big fucking deal out of it like anyone is going to give a shit?

Guys, guys. What if we based Starship DCs on... the enemy ship's Tier?
This way you buttmunches can stay in a shitty tier 1 ship and run from anything level appropriate while a REAL MAN can do a REAL MAN'S JOB by shooting down those Veskarium lizards?

>>55014014
So at no point did we ever actually disagree about anything. Good to know.

>>55014015
Not that guy, but it's pretty uninspired. If OP is going to go anime waifu, they could at least get creative about it and make it topical.

>>55014074
Do we have any pictures of queer robots or aliens? Because we need to queer this General up.

>>55014045
>Patching my power core depends on the tier of the ship I'm fighting, even if it's not actually doing anything

>>55014074
>they could at least get creative about it and make it topical.
This. I really don't care much about OPs at all but regardless of the artstyle, the image and suggestion topic should be something evocative.

>>55014045
That's almost exactly as retarded.

>I'm sorry the DC for trying to go in reverse this turn is 50 because that there's an enemy carrier.

>you can't successfully balance the shields even though it should be one of those things that's automated because the enemies are very very expensive.

plus a couple of the abilities require that anyways.

>>55014089
>So... Tex is a robot... and you're his boyfriend... which makes you.... a gay robot!
>Yes. I am a gay robot.

>>55014090
>>55014108
>repairing damged parts not scaling based on how much damage you took
>evasion manuevers not scaling against the enemy's tracking ability
>shield repairs not scaling on enemy's attack capacity

Makes sense to me, at least.

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Don't hide it from me, /pfg/.

Tell which body type you think looks best in a space suit?

>>55014263
D and H, easily.

>>55014221
Except it's not.
That damage isn't being scaled on how much damage you've taken, it's being scaled on how expensive the other guy's ship is. It could be high tier because it has six luxury suites, just as many holodecks, and is the size of a dreadnought, but apparently its one point-defense coilgun is harder to repair than the meganukes from a destroyer half its size and cost?

Evasion maneuvers going on enemy's tracking ability work, but a slide does not, hitting retros does not, whether you can do a barrel roll to flip your port/starboard does not, and so on. If anything these should be based on ship size and armor. Easy to learn and forever stays rather easy in a racer or interceptor, but if you wanna barrel-roll the fucking death-star, you better be incredibly skilled.

Shields aren't being repaired, you're allocating their capacitance between four quadrants. And again, even for the regen move in divert, purely basing it on enemy tier does not take into account what you're actually facing.

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>>55014263
They all look the same once they're in it.

>>55014263
A, D, H, J, K.

The others are just using the space-suit to try and hide their fat rolls. Except for E but E's just ugly.

>>55014263
is E wearing depends?

>>55014263
This isn't /pfg/, though. Why are you calling it that?

>>55014263
C, D, H, and L.

>>55014089
The iconic android doesn't have a gender and the envoy twilight sparkle humansona is lesbo. I think that's about it

>Mechanic's Portable Power trick lets them supply power to a computer or starship system for up to a minute.
>We don't actually have a timescale for space combat.

FUCK

>>55014322
Force of habit and muscle memory conspiring to fuck up my shit.

>>55014263
The same answer as always, everyone and anyone except E

>>55014263
F all day.

>>55014366
Nor what distances can represent...

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>>55014263
Here's a better question.

Which body-type are you going to make your character?

>>55014449
None of these types work for my Vesk princess.

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>>55014449

>>55014449

J is most definetly a soldier. B for Envoy, E for Operative. F as a Mystic G would be my Mechanic L and I are Technomancers and H would be a Solarian :3

>>55014468
>Warhammer
>Not an Atlas

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I want to make something kinda silly for an upcoming game.

Soldier or Operative for pic related?

>>55012888
I knew that Lashuntas would be the special snowflake race, just make a reference to something transgender and the social activists will eat it up.

>there is a definite cis-writer's-take-on-being-trans, come to a decision, hop into a building, tada, one-and-done angle here which is arguably dismissive of what we have to deal with in reality."

I wonder if advanced magi-tech in the future can cure her autism as quickly as it can change her sex.

>>55014508
Sam is absolutely a Soldier.

>>55014508

He's everything but sneaky He's a classic example of a soldier.

>>55014528
I liked it more when the Lashuna were the token hot alien babes.
Steamy jungles, so they wore nothing they could avoid needing! This was canon!

>>55014528
Anon, that isn't autism.

That's the writer getting angry at the thought this sci-fi setting has a way to CURE a mental illness. How dare that child suffering from gender dysphoria acquire the body they identify as without years of discrimination and inner torment! How dare they!

>>55014528
>her
you know as well as I do that that's some guy who wishes he was the little girl

>>55014557
That's not curing the illness? If they have some kind of bodily dysphoria, the cure would fix the dysphoria. They'd accept themselves for who they are and stop feeling some kind of phantom-vagina-pain wishing to get back something they never even had.

If anything the main advantage here is that it's cheap and easy to switch back when you realize that 'changing' did nothing for your unhappiness in the long run, so you can just undo the damage rather than fall into an even greater depression and kill yourself.

>>55014528
Are they even transgender? I thought it was that now there wasn't a gender-requirement for which offshoot they became? Can the super smart ones really only be female?

>>55014624
ARE YOU EVEN LISTENING TO ME? HOW CAN I HELP SOMEONE GOING THROUGH THE STRUGGLE WHEN THE STRUGGLE NO LONGER EXISTS?

>>55014557
>Instead of writing a portion of the book about how high the suicide rate for trans people in the future, the developers just put in a potion of sex change.

How will the professional victims ever recover? That's a trick question, professional victims never recover

>>55014628
Used to be both paths got int bonus and gender decided str or cha bonus.
It made a lot more sense that way, but apparently they're using the "Student" race trait to say "look, the burly ones can still be smart!"

>>55014688
If they did, they'd lose their jobs!

>>55014628
>Are they transgender.
Not really, but they serve as a clear allegory for transgender people. It even states that they can take hormones to transition to the genotype they want to become when they hit puberty.

So I'm noticing that weapon damage goes up very rapidly over your character's career, my question is around where does the lethality end up? Like it seems later weapons you're shooting fireball spells as at will attack actions and I feel like you'd just be blowing massive holes into even tough enemies (who are in turn pulverizing you)
Is there an easily obtained DR/Resistance that I'm missing? Or is this intentional to keep it as lethal as lower levels typically are?

>>55014732
there's basically no longer any multiattacking.

>>55014752
I haven't found anything on how to multiattack, but I've seen so many features and abilities that reduce the penalties for multiattacking.

>>55014771
That's just full attacking.

Anyone can full attack as a Full Action (That being all your actions that round, even your swift), making two attacks at a penalty. Some classes get more attacks or reduce the penalty.

>>55014732
You can get half your BAB in DR as a feat, or your BAB in energy resistance for a chosen element. Easy.

So can a Mechanic get the +2 bonus from weapon focus even if they're currently attacking at full BAB due to Combat Tracking?

>>55014846
DR equal to BAB, not half. Even better.

>>55014732
As mentioned, a feat can give you either DR or Energy Resistance to one type equal to BAB, and armor upgrades exist to get you up to 15 against the three most common energy types and 5 against Sonic and Acid. Cold and Fire even come packaged together!

On top of that, remember that people are a bit sturdier here than in Pathfinder. The Technomancer is the squishiest class, and at 5 Stamina and 5 HP per level, a 20th level Technomancer has 100+20*Con stamina and 100+racial bonus HP. So without a con penalty, the most fragile characters cap out at a hair over 200 HP, with 15 DR and ER. Characters who are meant to be the ones taking a beating will be even sturdier.

>>55014865
> If your base attack bonus is at least 3 lower than your character level

> allowing you to
make attacks against that target as if your base attack bonus from your mechanic levels were equal to your mechanic level.

I'd say you could benefit from Weapon Focus only when shooting at things not already tracked by your exocortex.

>>55014957
Oh, full. Misread it as half. Somehow. Ah well. Probably gonna get that, even with Mech BAB, that's still pretty nice.

>>55014983
Ah true. Oh well.

>>55013867
Second generation, even, as it was descended from Spycraft.

Anyone have the Incident At Absalom Station Adventure PDF/Scans?

If so would appreciate a link.

>>55015380
See: >>55009481

Does spell failure from armor not exist in Starfinder?

what is wrong with starfinder that people are angry at it already

is it real criticism or is it like the autistic criticism that DnD 5e got at release(UMMM YOU CAN'T FIGHT 10,000 GOBLINS AND LIVE AT LEVEL 20 AND YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FUUUUUUU, WHAT IF THE GM FIATS ALL OF THE FUN AWAY AAHHHHHH)

>>55015566
Everything to do with starships seems to be fucked.

>>55015566
The criticism is legitimate. The numbers are run and it's a fact that a lot of shit has been done poorly, and it still borrows enough from its predecessors that people can use that frame of reference to understand how things will play out.

Thing is though that while the criticism is real, it doesn't really say anything about what the system does do well, which is a lot. As a fact, it's a flawed release, but it's still way better out of the gate than its predecessors were. It's less a matter of "this product is completely shit" and more a matter of "can you put up with the bad enough to still enjoy the good".

>>55015566
There's some real criticism, but a lot of it is just anti-pathfinder hate being automatically applied to the new product.

Are there enough downsides to being a construct instead of a humanoid now that it isn't a massive upgrade?

>>55015566
It's a really adaptable system to anything you want to play, much more so than GURPS. Not in terms of depth, but in terms of ease of adaptation.

The problem is that many people weren't expecting to need to adapt their own things. They wanted a good system that had it all, but it really feels like they went halfway on many things. For example where is the art for their weapons and armor? We don't know what half the things look like in Starfinder. Why are some rules broken at higher levels? Where are more spells! Where are my mechs? Where are my hand held plasma shields?

I don't know their financials, but I really do believe they have made a ton of money from Pathfinder. It feels rushed and untested. I think the system is good overall, but hard if you want to use the book and then make your own campaign - given that you're going to have to adapt whatever campaign you have into its system.

>>55015666
As far as I can tell with a quick glance over most of the rules, the only thing that cares you're constructed in addition to humanoid is the Mechanic's override class feature at level 9.
If your android waifu fails a will save, you dominate her for one round!

>>55015738
TIGHT

Remember there's a new thread still waiting in the wings when this one goes into autosage, don't make another one: >>55009934

>>55015765
KYS anon

>>55015765
>self bumping so it doesn't archive before this one
>H-hey guys! T-there's a thread o-over here!

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Anybody else planning to run a mix of PF and SF rules to do the low tech culture in the midst of a high tech setting thing?

>>55015566
Can't it be all that and more?

Envoy and Solarian seem kinda crap and boring though, that's worth getting angry about.

>>55015905
That sounds way too complicated to bother with.

>>55015905
Why? Just give them a bunch of analog archaic shit

>>55015765
Fuck your shit thread, and fuck the anon who is going to make the next /sfg/ another shitty weeb thread.

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>>55015738
>>55015753
>Android Icon, playing music, normal shit
>Song ends, gets ready to deliver special announcement of new album
>Random engineer in the crowd Overrides her after the song, has her yell lewd promises into mic
Oh boy.

so what's the big list of legit criticisms against starfinder?

>>55015965
It's the same person, anon.

>>55015984
>Ship system is borked
>Solarians using Cha as key ability mod causes issues in making the class work as an optimized character compared to soldier
>Lot's a weird little things still need to be clarified
>They are already using the FAQ and Discord as emergency errata, omg why did they just not finish this game then release it and not shove it out 2/3 finished for GenCon?

>>55016061
Any major changes to combat?
I didnt follow up with SF these past few months.

>>55016061

"Rushed for GenCon" is probably the reason behind most of the complaint-worthy bits.

>>55016140
Yes.

For the better, it seems.

Crits work different. It's just on 20s now, and only double damage, but there's no confirmation roll, it's just that the attack would need to actually hit with the 20.

Full attacks are something anyone can do at any level, but it's two attacks at a fixed penalty. Some classes like Soldier can get more attacks or cut the penalties.

A full attack uses your swift now too. Move actions can be swapped down into swifts.

There's some 'that sucks' things, but overall, it's a nice improvement.

Vorpal can also now be placed on any melee that deals physical damage, isn't unreasonably expensive, and doesn't instakill anymore. It does however, let you cut people's bits off, not just heads.

So you can put vorpal on your PUNCH GLOVES and PUNCH LIMBS OFF

>>55016225
Any changes to combat maneuvers or how spells work? Or spell power level?

>>55016253
Spells seem to be much nicer balancewise.

On one hand, there is no casting defensively or concentration checks. If you cast next to a dude, he gets a swing at you. He hits you, the spell goes phut.

On the other hand, some spells like Mystic Cure (The best fucking healing spell I've seen in vancian) and a bunch of touch attack spells specify they don't provoke AoOs for casting.

Combat Maneuvers don't provoke AoOs anymore, and the 'Improved X' feats (They actually just combined them all) are +4.

But yeah, Mystic Cure is 'Good in-combat healing'

It's like psychic undercasting for one. If you know Mystic Cure 4, you know 1-3 as well. The effect changes based on what level you use.

It heals the number of dice plus your wis mod. The number of dice scales up nicely. But then at 4th level, it can also revive people who've been dead for up to 2 rounds. If they don't need that, they get an extra pile of healing. A 6th level Mystic Cure restores 20d8+wis hp if they don't need revival.

BUT THERE'S MORE. As mentioned, it doesn't provoke AoOs. If the target is healed to full, any excess healing goes to the caster. AND if they're not fully healed, the caster can choose to siphon their own hp to increase the amount healed.

>>55016253
Spells no longer have shit like "1d8 per two levels".
Fireball at cl1 does the same shit as fireball at level cl5.
Instead, they have a few spells that do better things if cast using a higher level slot.

>>55016253
It's hard to really talk about combat maneuvers right now. The DC is enemy AC+8, but they no longer trigger attacks of opportunity by default, and every combat maneuver uses your attack roll and whatever combat maneuver bonuses you have.

Attack bonuses are also harder to come by though, and the math has changed in a lot of small places so it's hard to tell how reliable they'll be. But they also might be more useful in practical play, justifying whatever investments you make, because the game is less lethal meaning that disabling an enemy with a good check will be more desirable than adding damage more often than it was in Pathfinder.

>>55014461
Do the Vesk even have a royalty? Did they set one up on one of the planets they conquered?

Is their holy symbol an energy drink?

>>55016449

Does the book say anything in particular about the Veskarium's government? If not, they might be covering that kind of thing in the Alien Archive.

>>55016351
>>55016362
Sounds pretty close to 5e (don't judge, I'm playing it because of my players).

>>55016422
>no longer triggers aoe
Oh nice, that part was what I really hated.

>>55016499
Yeah, there's some inspiration taken from 5e by the looks.

Oh, and neither Technomancer or Mystic are prepared casters. It's Spontaneous all the way.

>>55016557
Well taking inspiration is never a bad thing.

Also I've heard that ship combat was atrocious... just how atrocious?

>>55016573
Looks fine overall, but the math used for DCs is kinda wonky.

>>55016598
Are there stuff like power armor?

>>55016573
It's... conceptually alright.

The issues are that your ship just 'gets better' as you level, it's entirely unrelated to any kind of expenditure of wealth or anything. That's easily solved by just slapping a credit price on a Build Point.

No, the bigger problem is that the DCs for stuff like 'divert aux power to shields' increases based on your ship's TIER, which is equal to your Average Party Level. So you level up, and it's harder to do that thing than it was before, despite the shield system not having changed at all.

This is, again, entirely fixable, it just needs work. Things like which thrusters you're using DO have an impact on stuff like piloting rolls, but they're VERY small compared to the impact of tier. So you'd just need to increase the impact of those factors and boom. Fixed.

So it's shit, but it's shit in a way that is plainly, 100% fixable.

>>55016648
There is Power Armor. Not much, only a few different types, but it's there yes.

>>55016657
>So it's shit, but it's shit in a way that is plainly, 100% fixable.
So mainly a numbers issue, then.
Should be fixable, I guess.

>There is Power Armor. Not much, only a few different types, but it's there yes.
I'm pretty curious because back when I was playing traveller as the referee, I gave out battle dresses near the mid-late point of the campaign, as end-tier loot and motivations.

But I have a sneaking suspicion that SF power armor is going to be bad.

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Page 6 anyways and it's super late at night on the West Coast, so recycle this thread instead of making a new one and risking getting deleted by the mod

https://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/55009934#bottom

Not what Inwould have picked, but let's avoid causing trouble for the others

>>55016713
It's not bad, just... a thing. Primarily, each suit has a fixed strength, and you use that instead of your own. There's no Power Armor For SuperMuscleDudes at current.

>>55016786
So it's like a combination of 5e stat increasing items...

Fair enough I guess.

>>55016749
>oh look it's this anon again

New Thread

>>55016861
>>55016861
>>55016861
>>55016861
>>55016861

>>55016749
>>55016864
Oooooh, they're both so shit, I can't decide.

>>55016885
Yeah, I think most of the math stuff has been dealt with. We're like 4e General at the moment.

I'd like to read more about people's settings, or if they want to make a /sfg/ setting

>>55016885
At least animeposter did it at page 8.

>>55016786
>It's not bad, just... a thing. Primarily, each suit has a fixed strength, and you use that instead of your own.
It is bad though. Since there are so few suits of power armor, you almost have a bad armor value.

The fact that you can wear light armor while in power armor doesn't help at all, because your bonus AC from dex is capped at really low values. A character who focuses on shooting would have a bonus of 5 by the time he can use power armor. That's just an automatic reduction of 3 armor. Armors other than the battle harness have better max dex values, but they also increase the user's size category and cost dramatically more to operate for simply an hour.

Which is the next issue. Power consumption is crazy. Using one charge per minute is just a way to hemorrhage credits, unless using the level 5 harness that consumes 1 charge per hour. It's too expensive for a piece of equipment that costs a lot of money on top of maintaining a high-end light armor set.

As you said, power armor doesn't appeal to strength-based characters, or not at low level anyway.

If power armor had tiers like normal armors, like battle harness, troop, battle harness, specialist, and so on, it would actually be useful. But having to maintain your power armor energy cost alongside cutting edge light armor to cover your max dex penalty is entirely too much of a drawback for any character, let alone stacked with the rest of the drawbacks.

>>55017713
Yeah, the dearth of options is a real killer.

More significantly, there is no level 20 power armor. Jarlslayer is only 16.

And the energy cost is a problem, yeah.

We'll see in the future if things get fixed.