Bad news my fellow knights

>>54901756
I vote we charge anyway. Everyone knows peasants are incapable of holding the line.

>>54901756
Just make our lances longer

>>54901756
There's this wonderful invention called pistols.

Buy some.

>>54901774
Gee I wonder who could be behind this post.

>>54901756
I vote we learn archery from horseback. Could maybe attach hooks to our saddles and use crossbows?

>>54901774
Amusingly, this has a higher rate of success than it has any right to be.

>>54901756
They still can't beat longswordsmen or archers.

>>54901756
>>54901774
please take it to /qst/.

Dudes, chillax. I got this.

We. Fucking. Burn. Them.

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>>54901756
What's the problem?

Release the hounds

Bring your own pikes supported by halberdiers, crossbowmen and handgunners.

>>54901756
Use even longer pikes

>>54901903
That's a great idea, charge with Hounds.

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Knights >>>/out/

>>54901941
>>54901786
FUCKING COMMONFAGS GET OFF MY BOARD
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>54901756
Why do you keep making these threads?

>>54901822
>Amusingly, this has a higher rate of success than it has any right to be.
Who would have thought a few hundred people with sticks would lose their nerves when facing a few hundred armored people on big armored horses galloping.

>>54901756
Let's invite them to a wedding

an army on foot moves slower, pikes are not suited to bringing the fight to us

we circumvent and then rape&pillage

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>>54901756
That's disturbing. Are you implying that the commoners can form their own armies now, more effective than the feudal models that use a chivalric noble class as its backbone? Are you implying you... I mean we, are obsolete?

I have just the solution for you. Just put your head over here and we'll have a magical necklace fitted for you. I guarantee you, you'll never be bothered by commoners again after this.

>>54901903
Armored hounds

>>54902140
With bees in their mouths. Bees!

Dismount.

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>>54901756
Have you tried not being a little bitch?
>Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard, charged a fortified position of pikemen, uphill, on his horse and WON

>>54901756
God's sakes, man, just do what you did when they had regular spears that your horse also wouldn't have charged onto and hit them in the flanks.
What manner of halfwit charges at a formation of spears head on?

>>54902536
Pierre was also the greatest knight of his era and one of the greatest knights ever to live, mind you.

>>54902536
If you are so great why did your army lose?

>>54902693
They won that battle and crushed the rebellion

>>54902681
Imagine being so good at killing cunts on a horse that people remember you for it six hundred years later

>>54902845
He has a bunch of statues too.

>>54902536

> Prime example of a real world PC

>>54901756
Why don't we just give our peasant guns?

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peasant uprising NOW

>>54901782
Welcome to the worlds oldest game, Biggest Stick.

>>54903356
imagine the first guy to have a stick, and then the first guy to have a bigger stick

the fucking first rivalry

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>>54902536
>Pierre Terrail

He once successfully defended a bridge, alone, against 200 Spaniards.

>>54904165
I sometimes wonder if it wasn't sticks, but the femur bones of some animal. Because the idea of our simian proto-ancestors beating each other to death with elephant leg bones makes me laugh insanely.

>>54902822
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Garigliano_(1503)
Really?

>>54903137
>not pictured
>those peasants being hung by their own lord because their idiotic actions costed him his honour AND a considerable ransom sum

>>54904242
It was always sticks, that was just when the stick game changed forever.

Femur bones were like man discovering flight

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>>54901941
The last man shot by a British soldier using a longbow was a German officer in 1940 by Lieutenant-Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming "Mad Jack" Churchill.

No matter how far you get up the tech-tree you can always run into a Mad Jack.

He went to a gun fight with a Claymore, there is no defence against a Mad Jack.

>>54904304
>considerable ransom sum
>paying ransom
>for peasants
Things that didn't happen

>>54904333

No, you fool, the picture shows the peasants trying to kill a downed knight. The KNIGHT is worth ransom.

>>54904232
How the fuck did he do that?

>>54904846
Polearm Master and lots of difficult terrain (dead dudes)? Maybe Tunnel Fighter or whatever.

>>54904846
Narrow bridge, I'm guessing.
You don't have to be better than 200 people all at the same time. Just better than as many people that can surround you at a time.
Which means either he just needs to be better than the men on horseback, or his horse needs to be able to successfully squash the dudes running about under hoof.

He was effectively a human meat grinder. And it's demoralizing after a while just watching a mountain of dead motherfuckers just pile up and need to be removed before you can challenge a really pissed off knight. After a certain point you just have to go "FINE! TAKE THE FUCKING BRIDGE!" and go home to fuck Spanish ladies and drink wine.

>>54904846
Same way a single viking on a bridge managed to hold off an English(?) army while the vikings legged it to their boats.

>>54904285

That was a different battle. The charge against pike was in Genoa, in 1508.

This thread has made me very hungry for medieval stuff.

Anyone know any good starting characters in CK2? As long as the start date is in the 1000s or later. (HIP)

Fuck I could go for any good medieval game really

>>54905324
duke of barcelona, if you like getting fucked

>>54905173
>and go home to fuck Spanish ladies and drink wine.

Or wait until reinforcements arrive. Pierre was holding the bridge to give the French time to retreat. Ultimately the Spanish won that battle and took the Kingdom of Naples.

Wither them down with ranged fire, and when the formation thins out then a devastating charge.

>>54904315
Oh god dat file name.

>>54904846
Plate armor is really fucking good don't you know?
Stick a good enough knight on a chokepoint and the only thing that can dislodge him is either a siege weapon or another knight who is good enough to take him on.

>>54901756
Is it just me or has their been an uptick in Alatriste posting lately. I like it.

>>54901756
Just send Dothraki, they're super effective

>>54906151
Plate armour is a meme. It's good but it isn't THAT good. One good Sword slash and you're toast.

>>54905108
Polearm Master + Tunnel Fighter + Sentinel = Molon Labe

>>54906491
>slash
>against plate

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>>54906584
>swing full force with pic related
>either smash every bone in his body or cut through gap in plate

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>>54906491
>>54906624

>>54902196
Yes. Pikes won't help against those.
>>54906491
If someone can slash that good, he either has eagle eyes or hands of a Jotun

Rolled 18 (1d20)

>>54901756
I attack the closest pikeman.

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>>54901756
Who let the squire in? I wager this lad never broke a lance after piercing two conscripts before.

>>54906837
>*record scratch*
>*freeze frame*
>"Yep, that's me. You're probably wondering how I ended up in this situation."

>>54904304
hanging your own villein, for killing an enemy,,, ,minus 10 feudalism points,

>>54906624

>either smash every bone in his body or cut through gap in plate

You realize a longsword typically weighs between 2.5 to 3.5 pounds and doesn't really cut straight through people or armor like an anime, right?

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>>54907052
A big enough knight with a big enough longsword should be able to do it.

>>54901844
Not all of us have dragons you asshole, and besides, they seem to have brought ballistas

>>54906837
And they say size doesn't matter

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>>54901756
Leave pikemen to me

>>54907193
That count as mounted unit so pikeman has +100% bonus against it!

>>54901756
BRING ME THE WIZARD!

>>54907086
The same way you could move the planet with a big enough lever, I guess.

>>54901782

The Polish did literally just this.

Their Winged Hussars used hollow shafted lances that were made to be longer than pikes. Which allowed them to plow right through formations.

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>>54906491
>>54906624
i'll take that bait

>>54901756
don't worry, I've got this strange invention called a cannon

>>54911640
>I wonder whats for dinner?

>>54906491
>>54906624
>One good Sword slash and you're toast.
Jesus.
You know people actually try this shit ? See >>54911640
>>54901890
If you can get close enough for a good shot you're already dead, or without a horse.

>>54906969

>Not "I see your point and find it unaxeceptable

>>54901756
Use trebuchets and catapults to launch rotting body parts and boulders at them in alternating waves to not only demoralize and disgust, but to weaken and sow fear amongst them

>>54901756

Just dismount and equip yourself for a melee. A pike is only good on the first charge of combat. and is not great for on foot combat. Once we destroy their moral with our superior skill and equipment. We can finish them off with a charge. Or let the archers have fun for once.

>>54904315
why do they put the most clinically insane people to fight in a war?

>>54904304
>Hung
It's HANGED you pleb. I hung a picture, I hanged a cretin.

>>54901756
rape their villages and pillage their women

Okay, can someone give me a quick rundown on the issue of spears vs swords in warfare?
I've got a mate who swears that swords were the main weapon of warfare for that period and I don't know enough to tell him off.
Neither does he, mind you, he's just more willing to keep arguing when he doesn't have a point.

>>54913629
Swords have basically always been sidearms, they're the last resort for when you got too close to use your spear.

>>54913629
>I've got a mate who swears that swords were the main weapon of warfare for that period and I don't know enough to tell him off.

He's not wrong, depending on the period. Spears have been around forever.

The "knightly" weapons of the time were the longsword, pollaxe, warhammer, mace, and that one spare sword and dagger you wore.

The weapons of the rank and file, would have been various polearms. Although the "peasant army" is mostly a meme in Western Europe, where they were a thing, spears were their game.

Plus the English main weapon was the longbow.

>>54913696
>Swords have basically always been sidearms

Longswords were typically too long to wear at your side comfortably. Put it on your horse, maybe.

Your average one-handed sword though, pretty good sidearm.

>>54904232
>200 Spaniards.
so that's roughly equivalent to like, five normal people right?

>>54913268
Know any other kind of person who wants to?

>>54913268
>clinically insane
>implying he wasn't BORN for this

>>54901756
There's only one thing to do. We upgrade, TO STURGEON LEVIES. They'll never be able to find a larger lake fish in time.

>>54914347
Person who wants to protect his family and people?

>>54913268
Those war crimes won't commit themselves and someone has to do them.

>>54901831
We're knights! I don't know how to use a longbow!

>>54914555
Not applicable in the first world war.

>>54904315
>storming the beaches of Normandy with a fucking claymore
BASED

>>54917065
Person who wants to protect his sandwich?

>>54917065
What the fuck do you think the Belgians and French were fighting for, mate?

>>54904315
photochop'd

>>54911966
Longbows can't penetrate 2-3mm mild steel plates.
Neither can crossbows generally speaking.

Over 1000lb Crossbows weren't common due to their difficulty of manufacture and they still wouldn't go through 3mm steel plate.

You can bludgeon the target to submission with arrows, provided you've got enough force behind them, but penetration of plate armour would require the use of guns.
Which, mind you did exist when the Plate Armor started to lose it's weakspots.

It should also be pointed out that even though smiths are capable of making better forms of Plate Armor that are impervious to nearly all projectiles, the old suits of armor still would be around and be used and it would outnumber the high quality plate.

>>54905173
>And it's demoralizing after a while just watching a mountain of dead motherfuckers just pile up and need to be removed before you can challenge a really pissed off knight

Imagine climbing over 90 dead guys to find just one fucker at the end of all of their bodies, holy shit

>>54901756
Fireball, Chain Lightning, Meteor Swarm
kuniggits go right through the new hole in the line

>>54902116
Actually the cavalry will move at the same speed during a march since horses need constant breaks compared to humans.

>>54901890
Horse archers weren't that good against massed pike formations. The Macedonian phalanx was protected by the pikes presenting a forest that knocked away arrows while the personal armour and shields of the soldiers protected against the few arrows that went through. At Ipsus the horse archers under Seleucus command expended all their arrows into the rear of a phalanx but failed to break it.

>>54914461
Underrated post.

>>54908279
and Macedonians

>>54918155
Mostly for not having their government having to pay reparations. It was a pretty useless war for most involved.
WW1 the only nation that was intended to get annexed was Serbia. And even that was no genocide afair.

>>54901903

That's actually a real tactic. Many infantry-heavy armies employed skirmishers who marched before the shield wall with slings and other light ranged weapons hoping to confuse and break up the enemy's shield wall right before the charge. Just before the actual fighting begins, the skirmishers withdraw since they won't be useful in hard contact, but they often get redeployed to pursue routed enemies, secure the enemy baggage train if they are routed, or if the enemy wins, to harass them and delay pursuit.

Dogs were sometimes employed to do the same thing.

>>54901756

Yeah this is actually a thing. Medieval armies tended to over-arm their cavalry (knights) for social/political reasons, and leave their low-moral peasant infantry levies poorly armed, equipped, and trained. There were exceptions (vikings and saxons, for example) but those armies had their own problems and usually not enough cavalry anyway.

Whereas classical armies (roman/greek are the most famous examples) were the reverse. You had to be in the upper classes even to be allowed to fight in the legions originally. When a middle class appeared, they were called equites because they were assigned a light cavalry role that made them not quite plebs but not quite patricians either.

In the end, even firearms didn't eliminate knights on horses. But units of well-equipped and trained professional pikemen proved to be VERY dangerous to cavalry. Like swiss mercenaries, for example. And, surprise surprise, social organization changed drastically right when the emphasis shifted back to infantry (obviously for many other reasons, some much more important).

>>54919454

You mention Belgium and France. Belgium didn't want to fight-- they were neutral. They fought because they got invaded.

France fought for a wide variety of reasons. Reeling from the unification of germany (which they'd opposed for centuries as a potential threat to their power) and the franco-prussian war. Obviously fighting to resist invasion.

But mostly because their alliance position meant that they were obligated to fight once their alliance partners got into a declared war. Due to admin tech limitations, each country only had ONE war plan. The first nation to declare war and begin mobilization was Russia, but they were the last army to actually enter the fighting due to their slow mobilization schedules. Germany's plan called for an invasion of neutral belgium as a route into France to deliver a quick knock-out blow as had been done to France a few times before in the preceding decades. Then they could focus their full might on their enemies to the East.

For ordinary people in both countries, why soldiers fought was a complex brew of patriotism, going along because everyone else had war fever, a desire to see real fighting and not appear as a coward or weakling, out of a principled commitment to the political issues driving the war (or at least what they believed those issues to be), to protect their family and homes (part of France WAS invaded, and obviously Belgium was conquered). You don't have to be annexed to be occupied and occupation can be terrible for its victims.

This is true pretty much everywhere. Twenty years later in Russia, Stalin purged (murdered or sent to concentration camps) nearly the entire Russian officer corps. And yet people still applied to the academies to become military officers, and the whole country rose up to oppose Germany. It's a mishmash of reasons, some good, some bad, and some unique to the individual.

>>54902536
This is the ideal Knight. You may not like it but this is what peak Chivalry looks like

>>54920978
Stop talking shit, medieval armies used proffessional soldiers, rarely were peasants used in battle. The Equites were the patricians btw. And before Marius reforms the soldiers had to buy their own equipment which meant that farmers would generally be soldiers. And medieval society did not "overarm" their knights. They were simply the elite that could afford the best armour and weapons. KYS.

>>54914597
it makes sense, war is not war if there are no war crimes to spice the conflict

>>54914395
>manlet
>scottish
>using a bow like a hipster warrior
I don't know man

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>>54906925

>>54918799
The idea is that horse archers would flank the phalanx from both formations. Hoplites and pikemen aren't flexible. Hit and run from all sides would fuck them up. Too bad to do this you need to train the horsemen in both archery and horsemanship.
Whereas pikemen are just told to stand still, stand together and point the pointy end towards the enemy.

>>54913629
A sword is a weapon that requires a lot more practice to use than a spear, you need to practice some basic techniques to deliver effective blows and maybe not gore the friend standing beside you.
Not to say that there is no learing curve to spear but "stick 'em with the pointy end" is enough for a beginner.
Don't forget that a spear has a range advantage over the sword, and if your friend (I have no idea how he would react to this desu) points out that that becomes a disadvantage when the swordsman gets within sword range you tell him that people didn't fight 1v1 on medieval battlefields and your buddy would hopefull stab the guy while he evades your spear.

>>54913753
Much like katanas, longswords weren't ever used in actual battles. They were duelling and ceremonial weapons.

>>54925471
I'm going to assume you're trolling, so here's your (You).

>>54920978

Good post.