Horus Heresy Genera - /hhg/

First for finally admitting defeat about the 7th/8th edition.

I don't even care now that I prefer 7th over 8th, I just want to be able to play.

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>>54869580
Bligh was the hero we needed but had not deserved.
FW needs new writers to help French keep up the work, but he may be too much into GW's clutches to keep HH separate from the shit happening to 40k.

>>54869612
Healthy release schedule helps. Specialist Games didn't die because people playing them weren't playing and talking about them.

I've invested too much time and money into my HH dudes to walk away now. I'm probably even sort pf glad we've got another year until angelus. I'm a BaC baby and I haven't caught up to prospero. Would be nice to be a bit further underway with my armies when the next book drops.

>>54869627

Reposting from the end of last bread:


Bligh got bored of doing legions (which they really should have carried on rattling through and could have finished years ago), and instead shifted attention to 'fun' projects like Admech, Custodes, SA and militia, even daemons. Then he died. Now FW seem to have decided to bury his creation alongside him.

>>54869612
Truth was spoken.

>>54869612
>t. 1945 Hitler

seriously fella, we've had defeat after defeat, people are beginning to accept that HH isn't important to FW anymore. I tried to stay positive after the lack of move to 8th but it's getting hard to deny now.

>bare bones rules for BA, DA and WS in Retribution
>FW sculptors either left or were reassigned
>massive wait for Inferno
>it's shit when it arrives
>power creep is a thing but Russ and Magnus really raised the bar
>Bard the Bowman's family and hobbit releases, who the hell actually cares, LotR was a mistake
>focus on specialist games now
>almost 2 years until next book
>they could have given us literally anything but we get 7 different types of rhino doors

>>54869690
One can't hold it against the guy, even if the war was mostly about the legions. I wouldn't mind even xenos having small roles to play, i.e. orks trying to join in the fun on an occasion or two, and eldar trying their best to topple the Imperium etc.

Mostly I'd like to see S6 T5 ork nobz duking it out with the might of the legions, both in rules and minis.

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Just so people that missed last thread notice what all the doom and gloom is about:

>The Geno Five-Two podcast managed to speak to a bunch of FW people at that event this weekend.
>Tony Cottrell says the target date for Angelus is end-of-year 2018.
>When Inferno got delayed and still ended up messy, largely due to Alan Bligh doing too much himself while in treatment, FW realized they needed a) multiple main HH writers and b) a more organized process. They still haven't found those writers (though it sounds like John French will be one), and for b) they now have every released mapped out a year in advance.
>They also have a goal of one Specialist Game per year. Necromunda this November, Titanicus next year.
>Necromunda will be more detailed than the original. The only example given was extra skills tables. Like Blood Bowl, two plastic gangs in the box and resin expansions.
>They haven't started BFG 2.0 but they'd like to theme it on the battle above Terra.
>No more releasing a black book without plans to release all the associated models sometime soon (a year, maybe?).
>Decent chance that they'll revisit the red books soon.

Gentlemen, it has been a privilege shitposting with you over the years.

>>54869822
Honestly Angelus being delayed might be a good thing, gives them a chance to catch up and ensure there are models for all the units still lacking them.

BFG 2.0 sounds hype as shit too.

I get that its frustrating if you want to play WS, BA or DA but you guys are being way too overdramatic about this.

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Anyone modeled the Vengeance Launcher under the wings of a Storm Eagle instead of on top?

Not a fan of the look on top, but I don't know how well the big launchers will fit under the wings. An alternative would be nice. Been looking at Sentinel and Land Speeder Storm launchers to mount under the lascannons or something.

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>>54869580
You know what, why don't we make a a proper 8th Edition port of rules to use with people? HH games pretty much requires you to ask any non-HH player to with back in 7th because of the whole "muh FW is OP", and assuming your friends aren't turbo cunts, they shouldn't have a problem with a fan codex that takes most of the base stat lines from the current space marine codex.

Can /tg/ get shit done one more time? This "specialist game" means a bit to much to me for me to simply let it fade away

>>54869907
Someone already tried, it was pretty shit.

>>54869907
I mean, if your friends are willing to play a fan codex wouldn't they also be willing to play a 7th Ed game?

>>54869972
Why so?

>>54869690
What a piece of shit. Literally zero business sense. Dead game is dead. And nice /pol/ tier thread image. Really ups the quality of the board. Not.
/hhg/ in no way deserves it own thread at this point.

>>54869822
>>54869840

15 months until the next update, at the earliest. Also likely 15+ months until any sign of HH 8th edition rules. Thats more or less death of the game as far as maintaining the community goes.

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Is Jaghatai Khan actually Asian, or a white mongoliaboo looking dude? If Asian, why is he the only Primarch with non-Caucasian features?

>>54870041
Read that first post again, HH ruleset will be coming sooner than Angelus

>>54870083
>tfw no 7th ed rules for my dangels

>>54870083

Pretty sure its the 7.5 rules they mentioned earlier, which is still ultimately 7th no matter how you slice it.

>>54870113
It'll probably work better than 8th, its too simplified for HH

>>54870034
>What a piece of shit. Literally zero business sense.
I know, I really hate that. I recognise that his work on other factions was good but holy shit if you're going to start and entire business project doing Literally Space Marines 100% of the Time: The Game then don't get bored with marines half way through and start doing some other stuff.

I'd get fucked in the ass if I just left on of my projects at work incomplete because I found it boring.They should have got the 18 legions out of the way in the first 4 books then added extra bits on top of that.

>Book 1
Istvaan 3/5
World Eaters
Emperor's Children
Death Guard
Iron Hands
Salamanders

>Book 2
Istvaan 5
Sons of Horus
Night Lords
Alpha Legion
Iron Warriors
Raven Guard

>Book 3
Calth and Angels
Word Bearers
Ultramarines
Imperial Army
Dark Angels
Blood Angels

>Book 4
Chondax and Prospero
White Scars
Alpha Legion
Thousand Sons
Space Wolves
Talons

>Book 5
Mars and Daemons
Mechanicus
Daemons
various bits and pieces

>>54870265
I can't wait for FW to start their 8e conversion by making "2nd edition" print of Book 1 and then following it up with 2e versions of all the other books published so far.

Book 9 in 2039.

>>54870265
>They should have got the 18 legions out of the way in the first 4 books
They should have put all 18 LA rules in book 1, prove me wrong.

>>54870308
>put everything into one packaged
>business sense

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>>54870057
>only Primarch with non-Caucasian features

>>54870319
>what are special units, RoWs, characters and primarchs

>>54870265
>>Book 2
>Istvaan 5
>Sons of Horus
>Night Lords
>Alpha Legion
>Iron Warriors
>Raven Guard

supposed to be
>Book 2
Istvaan 5 and Phall
Sons of Horus
Night Lords
Imperial Fists
Iron Warriors
Raven Guard

>>54870265
> other factions
> good
Literally only the solar auxilla was in any way balanced for HH. Mechanicum, Knights, Cults and Militia all helped break the game.
And it's not hard to keep to a fucking release schedule. Most other competent companies can do this. It sounds like it was a case of some sweaty neck beard being unwilling to let anyone else mess with his grand 'vision' even as he slowly killed it with declining quality.

what pattern terminator armor did the iron warriors use mostly? cataphractii? i want to get a set of termies but i want to make sure its fluffy before i do

>>54869983
You would think, but some people just prefer 8th and I can't blame them for some of the things they like about it

>>54869972
This is our chance to make a better one, I recall the general talking about it prior to 8th's release, so why don't we follow up on it?

>>54870013
It took a lot of direct copy and paste from the new codex without adjusting prices, other things got massive price bumps that were unwarranted etc... some of the more potent things like the Paragon Blade we're barely any better than a power sword and so on. We can do better than that

To the anon asking about airbrushes.
Yes, my first airbrush was the traditional one (the one with the mechanism on top) it's quite versatile, and I'd say gives you a bit more control than the pistol grip ones. The downside is that it's uncomfortable for big hands.

Pistol grip ones are imo more comfy, easier to handle, but you trade a bit of control

Irregardless use a gravity fed one.

>>54870409
Must be amazing to have, say, SW legion rules in Book 1 and rules for your only compulsory Troop choice in Book 7.

Well, at least I'll have time to build up my Bangels.

>>54870351
Vulkan has Caucasian features but midnight black skin

>>54870529
No, I think it honestly would have been better that way.
>Book 1 End of Great Crusade, the special rules for each Legion along with the universal core list
>Book 2 Prospero special units and primarchs
>Books 3-5 about Istvaan
>Book 6 is Calth and whatever campaign features both Dangles and Bangles
>Book 7 is Terra, White Scars and Daemon list
>Book 8+ covers Mechanicum, Imperial Army, Adeptus Titanicus, Battlefleet Heresy, etc
This could be condensed more probably but the point is that FW fucked up in the initial planning stage.

>>54870460
Probably cataphractii for the greater protection, their special termies are in cataphractii and Perturabo disliked MK6 armour for it's lack of protection.

That being said people are less autistic about terminator armour than they are about power armour and vehicles so do what you want.

>>54870634
>3 books on Istvaan
>1 book on Terra
>1 book after Terra

That sounds terrible

>>54870694
I came up with it in 30 seconds to try and imply FW should have had at least all the Marine stuff planned about before pulling the trigger.

>>54870705
That's a lot of work for a project they had no idea how it would pan out.

>>54870705
yeah its almost as though its difficult isn't it?

but don't worry, I'm sure some random idiot on an imageboard knows better than people who's job it is to do this stuff.

>>54870744
I'm sure of it. Especially after the fact. And with no vested interests of their own.

>>54870744
>I'm sure some random idiot on an imageboard knows better than people who's job it is to do this stuff.
By the looks of how FW's doing, I wouldn't be surprised.

>>54869907
http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/10351-the-8ed-heresy-project-legiones-astartes/

>>54870470
Is there a template I could use for making the pages. I would be willing to try my hand at making a non shit version but I dunno how to make the pages look nice.

>>54870438
Militia? Personally I like the variety in having Mech, SA and the others around since they're not really worse than what the Legions can toss out with phosphex and such, but I understand that some people may dislike them because they have to plan for things that aren't either vehicles or T4 Sv 3+ or 2+.
Still, never heard anyone really dislike Militia, they just seem to be flavorful allies. What's so bad?

>>54870825
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that was the poorly done copy-paste fan codex.

>>54870850
Didn't we have a template in one of the megas for blank pages/templates?

>>54870034
Jesus Christ could a post get more reddit.

>>54870921
I'll be working on it today but can't make it pretty today, as my...whatever you could call it-foo is not on par. I can do math and things though.

>>54871252
That's cool, post what you got when you get a chance and I'll try to help from there. I'll also look into finding the template page once I'm done filling in for two other people at work right now

>>54873626
Just let it die

>>54869822
>titanicus next year

FUCK

>>54869822
I hope BFG gets 40k rules as well. And is compatible with the old minis.

>>54869822
>Gentlemen, it has been a privilege shitposting with you over the years.
Let's put it this way:

There are still occasional Epic Armageddon threads and the game has a strong community, if small and insular. Epic! No new material since, dunno, 2004, and no official minis for sale since 2013. We're not in a "dying game" position. I'm not saying we can't complain, but try not to get too fatalistic about it.

>>54870057
I think it's fair to assume that his ethnicity corresponds to at least one of earth's steppe peoples, which mostly looked Mongolian, Turkic, or Iranian, probably a little lighter-skinned as you went northwest on the Russian steppes (where the Magyars started, for example). The Khan's usually drawn a little more Turkic than Mongolian. Too prominent a brow to be East Asian. The Emperor's from modern-day Turkey, but from before the Turks arrived so there's no connection there.

It's worth noting that Magnus and Lorgar don't really look Caucasian, either. Lorgar's supposed to look Middle Eastern (admittedly not far from the Emperor's place of origin), and Alpharius might too. He's often drawn like some Egyptians I've met.

>>54870498
>Irregardless
You probably mean irrespective or regardless, either of which work.

That's great insight, though. Not original looking-for-an-airbrush-anon, but I've been thinking about it too. I have handlets so probably not much gain from a pistol grip here.

>>54870634
>This could be condensed more probably but the point is that FW fucked up in the initial planning stage.
The Geno 5-2 podcast sounded like FW didn't really plan things out until Alan Bligh's passing. They were ad-libbing it, and it was working so they didn't do anything about it.

>>54874249
>it was working

It was? God, what would it look if it didn't?

>>54874278
You're looking at it now.

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>>54874412

>>54870460
I'm not sure there's been any fluff about it, but they're a shooty legion that loves taking fire, and that means Cataphractii.

>>54874278
There weren't huge complaints until Inferno's issues.

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What are some good 3rd party bits that people have used with their 30k minis or that could work in 30k?

Anvil makes some nice crests for helmets and they got gladius style close combat weapons for the likes of Ultras. Spellcrow has some tabards and bits, as well as Rhino pieces like doors and front glacis. I've personally had my eye on pic related to spice up one Mars pattern Rhino I have.

>>54875514
ML Shields if you want breachers made out of BoP marines.

>>54875514
Shapeways has some great looking shields on it, and I've heard that the quality is pretty good too.

>>54869756

That just makes you a faggot.

If you commit to a game about the legions then finish the fucking legions. No one gives a shit about your feeling

>>54870726

Good thing they're being paid to do a fucking job then and not just some random asshats working on Homebrew, eh?

>>54875859
Getting paid doesn't make them any less random asshats working on homebrew.

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>>54869690

>>54875613
ML?

>>54875778
It's fucking unacceptable. Betrayal was released in 2012 and book 9 won't come out until 2020 at the earliest. That's 8 whole fucking years of White Scars players waiting. It's beyond stupid.

>>54877153
ML as in, "Mister Laser", duh =p.

But yeah, ML Shields. No website other than their Facebook page.

God damnit FW!!

I just want my Dorn model already!

>>54878377
That's one of the things that IS happening.

>>54878386
Place your bets people, how will FW fuck him up?

>>54878441
No moustache.

>>54878454
Where in the world did this mustache thing come from?

>>54878513
He's the manliest Primarch...of course he is going to have a fantastical moustache like all Prussians.

>>54878513
His upper lip?

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>>54878513
Because of a sort of memetic osmosis, some early fan artwork showed him with one and most people seemed to agree that it fit.
Yes, the model obviously won't have one if the art in the black book is anything to go by, but that's a damned shame.

>>54878581
I never made the Prussian connection, but it makes a ton of sense.

I need to learn to green stuff mustaches onto my White Scars. If I get good at it, I'll give mustaches to all the primarchs.

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So I've been wondering something.

The Custodes were made using the Emperors finest gene crafting and were essentially lower end prototypes of Primarchs with their genetic tinkering.

Does this mean Custodes have a higher sensitivity to the warp or it's energies? Master of Mankind had some become even more aggressively uncomfortable around Sisters of Silence than some Astartes, but I also understand if that's just a specific writing style.

I think it would make sense for some lightly higher sensitivity to Warp-stuff without having any Custode Psykers(which I hope we NEVER get).

Been away for a while, can someone give me the shortened version as to why the /hhg/ is dying. No content updates for months to come?

>>54878712
Lion - Eddie Murphy
Rogal - General Lee
Fulgrim - George Michael
Roboute - Burt Reynolds
Lorgar - Martin Luther King
Khan - Fu Manchu
Ferrus - Frank Zappa
Vulcan - Einstein
Horus - Santana
Corax - Hercule Poirot
Alpharius/Omegon - Guy Fawkes
Sanguinius - Prince
Magnus - Salvador Dali
Leman - Asterix
Perturabo - Stalin
Mortarion - Grouche Marx
Angron - Hulk Hogan
Konrad - John Travolta

>>54879058

Custodes are a prototype which served as a basis for the Astartes template without warp science. The problem is without warp science, Custodes creation would take way too long.

>>54879069
8th edition 40k got a ton of hype and pulled a lot of players back. No surprise, a big chunk of 30k players are disgruntled 40k players. I'm not impressed by 8th ed. as a set of rules, but the balance is a million times better so there's less disgruntledness (we're more gruntled?).

Also, Inferno was a typo-ridden, power-creeped mess despite the delays. Why? Because, sadly, Alan Bligh lost his battle with cancer and had been fighting it while trying to finish the book. That's left FW uncertain about what to do. Between that and being busy with Specialist Games, we've been told that Angelus (the next black book: DA, BA, daemons, dark mechanicum, some NL) isn't expected until late 2018.

But mostly it's 40k being hyped up right now. Other /tg/ generals are also suffering because of 40k's pull right now.

>>54879069
Just read the fucking thread, man. It's one of the first few posts that has a summary. Don't ask to be spoonfed, don't be part of the problem.

>>54878581
haha epic lmao!! XD

>>54878581
>>54879171
I bet he eats lots of bacon too lol! :DDDDD

>>54879193
>>54879171
Are... are you alright, anon?

>>54879246
I'm just sick of the mindless caricatures of characters and events propagated by Emperor's text to speech memes, that's all.

>>54879156

They also announced a 7.5 ed ruleset shortly after 8th edition was announced. But 8th ed's meteoric success has probably ruined those plans. If they don't bring on new talent, real talent, to make HH work again, then I see HH being effectively dead past 2018.

>>54879526
7.5 is "supposed" to be out next month. So we'll see.

Anyone else have a hard time choosing a legion to play?

>>54880415
Which ones have you narrowed it down to?

I just got perterarbo in the mail, I'm not sure how to put him together. I want to paint his face first, but I dont know if I can put it in the spot afterwards, if you know what I mean.

>>54880454

Ultras, SoH, Thousand Sons, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Salamanders, and finally Iron Fists.

I like to play rather aggressively and want a force that does that and is fairly forgiving to mistakes.

>>54880578
>Iron Fists
I can see how you might make that mistake, but I can't guess whether you mean Iron Hands or Imperial Fists.

Thousand Sons and Alpha Legion are probably not forgiving - with the TSons, there's a lot of luck in which psychic powers you get and then you have to base your gameplan on those. The Alpha Legion is flexible because you can pick a special rule at the beginning of the game, but you need to pick well. They're kind of a finesse army.

The others are all easier to play. For aggressive play I'd avoid the Iron Warriors. Sons of Horus are great (specialty: close-ranged shooting), Salamanders are good at that too (with flamers) but very dependent on transports. Probably best in drop pods.

Iron hands can take a lot of shooting and Imperial Fists are good with bolters and breacher squads.

Don't know much about Ultramarines, desu.

>>54880681

So Sons of Horus and Salamanders for aggressiveness? If anyone wants to chime in I'd like to know about night lords too.

Can someone chime in for the ultras?

>>54879526
you're an idiot if you really think they'll just stop halfway through

>>54880907

They can keep going, but it would be pointless to everyone except the most devoted HH players in the British Isles.

>>54880811
Sons of Horus and Night Lords are the really aggressive Legions in the sense that they encourage you to really overwhelm your opponent. Salamanders are aggressive through the notion that the best offense is a good defense. All of them encourage infantry heavy armies.

Ultramarines get bonuses for working together, but a lot of times you end up overkilling them tremendously.

>>54880415
Tip: pick whichever army has the best looking Primarch.

>>54880578
Might want to look at BA for aggression. Would be nice if they actually had full rules though.

>>54880578
If you want to go full retard aggressive why not World Eaters?

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>>54881282

But they're already taken.

>>54881231

Them too.

>>54881109

I think I've made up my mind in the form of ultras. I mean... look at these guys? How can you not love this?

>>54881231

Their current rules are pretty good. Assault cannons on everyone you know and love.w

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>>54881378
Here's your new painting quality standard. No pressure!

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>>54881378
Consider this instead

>>54870438
>It sounds like it was a case of some sweaty neck beard being unwilling to let anyone else mess with his grand 'vision' even as he slowly killed it with declining quality.

More like as it slowly killed him with resin quality.

>>54881439

Well uh...
fuck me.

>>54881645
Matt (Matthew?) Kane used to paint a lot of FW's studio minis and came up with several of the legion color recipes. He went on to teach painting classes (MKA Studios) but he's winding that down. Big name in the hobby.

The only problem with UM is that their fancy special units are really, really expensive. A lot of people take a small number of Suzerains but I never see anyone take the special Terminators.

>>54881732
I think pretty much everyone has a hard time justifying 1W Terminators.

Anyone know some good sources for painting the legions?

Is there an upload anywhere for Books 42 and 43 of the HH series? Garro Weapon of Fate and Shattered Legions

>>54880552
Well dry fit the model to check, it's not fucking rocket science.

What does /tg/ think?

I'm thinking of terminators, dreads and tanks with some form or another of viking knotwork on every model in gold
with black armour, accents of deep red and bright yellow
and the beardiest fucking praetor ever
So fucking beardy that he has his beard draped over his arm like a butler with a towel.
And the other hand has a woodsman style axe
Actually
grey haired speaker for the dead
with a beard he refuses to cut and drapes over his arm
fighting only with a hand axe because he's fucking tired
All the people he joined the chapter with are dead
he's the last one left
trying to forge a death in battle against a worthy opponent
but it just never comes, so he tries to press on by spending his time guiding wolves who're maybe a little unstable
Giving them the guidance they need, and enjoying their passion and fury vicariously just so he can get a residual hit of a half memory of what it feels like
maybe accompanied by a suitably tired and old looking fenrisian wolf
The last "friend" he's got, he knows the old hound doesn't have long left and he needs to go to the hall of the all father with him. He can't stand to think one of them will die alone so maybe he does some really stupid crotchety old man shit regularly trying to die with his pupper
Like throwing his axe at mother fuckers and then punching them to death

>>54884735
the reason he stopped cutting his beard decades ago is he stopped caring that it was a liability, which grew into a disability but even with that he can't fucking find someone to end it
but exhausted, wounded, with arrhythmic hearts he finally meets his match in a Thousand son
He didn't get the death he quite wanted because he was already broken by the time it came, but he dies on the floor of one of the great battles of the heresy, holding his last companion, blood mingling together on the floor as they both draw last, rasping breaths.
Command is picked up by one of his more troubled warriors, one who didn't quite understand why the old man died the way he did and was made angrier for it, convinced the man shouldn't have had his thread cut "before his time" who takes it out on prospero, even its civilians and stays angry for a long ass time after the heresy
but as he ages, eventually comes to understand why his mentor died the way he did and never quite mellows out and is always looking back frustratedly to the good old days but finds a certain facsimile of peace.

>>54884735
I think I'm not going to read that badly-formatted wall of text.

>>54870265
What book is the Alpha Legion in? I want some swanky lore.

Glad I sold off all of my heresy stuff. I guess Ill get back into it in 2 years when the game picks up again

>>54884877
In book 3 Extermination alongside the Imperial Fists, Raven Guard and Iron Warriors.

>>54884896
All four of them are lit, thanks senpai.

Do you think it's still worth it to get the book? Physical one, I mean

>>54884909
It's probably the best book overall.

>>54884909
If you want a fancy hard copy then it's worth it, I'd buy all the black books I could as they are works of art (not including Inferno).

>>54884735
Are you drunk, anon? Or high?

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>Lieutenants
>Within the Iron Hands Chapter they are charged as Naysmiths, questioning their Captain's battle plans

Though 40k fluff, did this exist in 30k as well?

>>54885212
There's no word either way but I don't see why not, Iron Hands don't seem the type to just accept their commanders word if they think it's flawed (unlike Emperor's Children).

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>>54885235
>don't seem the type to just accept their commanders word if they think it's flawed
I disagree. The Iron Hands are all about hierarchy.

>>54885212
>watch me whip
>watch me naysmith

>>54885361
Fair one, that's interesting fluff.

>>54869690
I have to say, sure it's boring, but that's a massive thorn in the side of FW to pull out now that he's dead. His fun projects leave them in the shit when legions are what makes the dosh, by a huge margin.

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>>54885212
>>54885235
It's 40k, but here's, in my opinion, the very best IH book I've ever read. About half of it is chapter fluff and not fighting, so it's a must read for IH fans.

In it, it is mentionned that second in command challenge their superior in a midly agressive way, not to wrestle command but indeed to see if their plan is sound and to see of the officer is fit to lead.

Absolutely fantastic book, it's one of the very few books where SM are properly scary, but in the case of the IH it's because they're just so damn cold, yet angry and hard to kill.

>>54885528

Admech and custodes have sold well, I'm sure, but they require a lot more modelling and rules-writing time and resources than putting out legion rules and units. Really, GW need to recognise that HH has been hit by a doubly-whammy of Bligh's death and the main 40k game moving to a new issue. To keep the player base from going into freefall they really need to do two things - update the game to 8th (or something based on it), and produce the next book. Both of those are pretty urgent, the former being an all-hands-on-deck emergency that needs sorting ASAP, and the latter really needing to be targeted at a release for the next weekender, which ought to be around spring. They have to keep up the momentum, taking a near two-year break between significant releases could be fatal.

>>54885030
He's Australian. Also that's an unformatted stream of consciousness. Just judge it as it is.

>>54885628
Unfortunately Angelus is not due until Christmas 2018 at the earliest. HH is dying as a game, and this was the nail in the coffin.

>>54885361
>>54885421
maybe it's because nobody is allowed to question anything that they have to have a designated person to make sure that the commander doesn't go full retard

>>54885645

I know. I don't think the game will die completely in the mean time, but it's going to shed a lot of players. Once lost they'll be hard to get back, so they'll be left with a playerbase and sales that will be a fraction of what they could have been. Really, this has been a long time coming. The rot set in with the repeated delays to Inferno, obviously not because they were actually working on it, given the terrible balance issues and numerous mistakes, but because they got distracted. The game and the narrative has felt like is wasn't really making progress for some time now.

>>54885628
I completely agree my dude, but as >>54885645 says, I doubt we'll see it happening in due time.

Where does the Lion and Dorn are autistic meme come from? I assume the Lion thing is about ditching Luther on Caliban I guess but why Dorn?

>>54885588
Just read this recently, really enjoyed it. As a long-time Iron Hands fan it's always nice to see them get some attention

>>54886073
Part of it is that Dorn is honest, but it's honesty to the point of he never thought how what he says affects others as Pert will attest to

>>54886073
the Lion grew up on the wild and has the barest minimum of social graces

>>54885628
>To keep the player base from going into freefall they really need to do two things - update the game to 8th (or something based on it), and produce the next book.
It's not really necessary to rush out the next black book if they update to 8th, since people will be busy trying out how their units work in the new system and figuring out how the meta has changed.
They could shit out an index with the generic LA rules in a week alongside switching to 8th (90% of the rules already exist in FW indexes for 40k), and then release red books with legion-specific rules and all non-LA armies every couple of months up until Angelus. Converting 7th rules to 8th is almost entirely copy+paste, the only hard part is deciding points costs.

Dead game is dead. Dont play the HH.

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>Half the people is this thread
That you give up this easily is pathetic.

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According to me you are exaggerating.

Do you remember that up to a few years ago the exits were only a couple a year? Ok they are slowing down but seriously,why are you so worried? The only thing that worries me is that bligh death will probably ruin future rules and no weapon cool like volkite wull be relased.

I am happy with this momentary pause, at least I have time to play and paint instead of buying and collect dozen of stuff.

>>54886232
Hrm, looking at the pricing of a Tactical Squad to start.

In 7th Edition, a 40k Space Marine is 14 points per model, with up to ten Space Marines being 140 points. They all come with Boltguns, Bolt Pistols, and Frag and Krak Grenades.

In the Horus Heresy, a 30k Space Marine is priced at 10 points, though their starting squad is ten Space Marines at 150 points (I guess the Sergeant is fucking 60 points on his own?). They also come with Boltguns, Bolt Pistols, and Frag and Krak Grenades.

Jump to 8th Edition, and marines now only cost 13 points per model, with ten marines being 130 points. Still the same equipment (all free).

So I guess the real problem is do how do we deal with the fact that the Sergeant is either overpriced OR they simply tacked on a 50 point tax so you couldn't quite spam Marines everywhere.

>>54886420
Bligh dying, not switching to 8th and not getting a new book until end of 2018 means HH is in the doldrums without a captain and no resupply in sight.

Any of these problems individually wouldn't be an issue but all of them at once puts a massive dampener on the game.

Having the time to paint is a lazy persons excuse because it's not like you didn't have the time before.

Yeah you might be able to get your army painted now but you won't have anyone to play with.

>>54886403
A pessimist is never disappointed.

>>54886425
I will mention the Special Rules, but seeing how Legiones Astartes is a lesser version of And They Shall Know No Fear, and how cool Fury of the Legion is vs Combat Squads, I think the Special Rules trade-off is roughly equal enough to not make a difference in the point costs.

>>54886451
Bitch people still play Epic which hasn't had an update since like 2003.

>>54886481
And never happy

For fucks sake I've seen people on these threads say that HH is dying when bloody book 4 was coming out.

>>54886425
I seem to recall that the whole idea of the "tax" was to encourage large units instead of MSU (20 tacticas is cheaper than 2x10 tacticals). But it just ends up with people using Vets instead.

Cynic in me wants to say something about 20 man squads and only transport options for them being expensive FW resin ones.

Do you guys that your negativity is likely to put people off this general? Thus making it a self-fufilling prophecy?

>>54886481
They're always disappointed and miserable.

That's why no one fucking likes them.

>>54874230
Tbf irregardless of choice also works.

Anyways, if you need to choose a model or airbrush just post here what you find and I'll happily help you choose the best value one.

>>54886578
>news at ten
>4chan neckbeards are negative
I don't think so, if people didn't want negativity they wouldn't come to 4chan.

>>54886665
>always disappointed

How so? If you expect the worst and are right, then, hey, you were right all along. And if you were wrong, hey, things aren't as bad as you expected.

>>54886532
They could have written up a half-page of rules to permit carrying a 20-man squad in a squadron of 2 Rhinos. I mean, FW loves overly long special rules so it wouldn't have stuck out.

>>54886702
Yeah I'm sure people screaming about how the sky is falling and the game is doomed is really going to inspire people to post and play.

>>54886232
>Deciding point costs
Definitely one of the harder parts due to how 8th puts high point values on transports (looking at you drop pods) which would fuck certain types of armies. On the flip side, that could encourage more infantry style armies thanks to artillery not deleting units anymore (sorry Iron Warriors)

>Copy Paste rules
Some would be an easy transfer, but other not so much. Some legions may end up getting a pretty big overhaul to their own rules and not to mention the 8th edition rules don't support Orbital Assault, Drop Assault Vanguard, Day of Revelation, etc... at all due to how deep strike works though

On another note, hopefully since this might allow them to change point values and other stats, it may be a good way to make certain unusable units playable, like Headhunters.

Also
>Praetors could be a worthwhile choice in 8th
>3 wound Justaerin, Butchers, Fire Drakes, Shrouds
This does make me hard, I won't lie

>>54886532
>>54886716

People use vets because they gave them a massive discount in the last book, such that 10 vets is only 15 points more expensive than 10 similarly equipped tacticals. That, plus the proliferation of overpowered large blast marine-deleting weapons meaning that anything not in a transport is done for, makes vets the obvious choice. 8th presents a pretty big opportunity to fix some of the problems that have crept in, not just through points values, but also because things like high-strength blasts just aren't as effective any more.

>>54886935

It wouldn't be too hard to make a HH ruleset which uses 8th but reintroduces a handful of things like 7th's reserves rules.

On that subject, are there any other things in 7th that you'd really include in an adjusted 8th edition HH ruleset? Personally I'd want to steer clear of reintroducing vehicle facings and templates.

>>54886716
Nah, they'll just wait for 8e to make Spartans way too expensive to field many of them, and release the Rhino Advancer.

>>54886122
The author is also really nice on twitter. Apparently there's 2 more books planned, the 2nd, Voice of Mars, is in the making right now. GW seems to like trilogy a lot.

>>54886494
Yeah but the amount of people is ridiculously small compared to say, 30k which is already pretty small when compared to 40k.

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>this top-quality from forgeworld now

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>>54887889

>>54887889
The face sucks both in terms of proportion and sculpt but he's meant to be at a crouch/leaning forward so it's retarded to compare him to a fully upright figure. lrn2anatomy

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I'd be interested in seeing the Calth captain without his armour. His body must have some funky angles.

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>>54886665
Idiot

>>54888177
Momentary disappointment vs constant miserable pessimism.
I know which I choose

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>>54888313
Sorry to tell you this bro but pessimism is the patrician outlook, you might feel better along with the other opitimicucks back on reddit.

Also
>he fell for the happiness meme

>>54887889

It's the legs being miles apart which I think is the most grotesque anatomical fail. I mean, it's not like FW and GW aren't guilty of that in the past (see: FW's tartaros termies), but this is a particularly horrendous example. Just look at his monstrous posture compared to the decently proportioned mini in >>54888023.

I also think the pauldron placement is shit, but I'd imagine that will be fixable.

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>>54888177

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>>54869580

Newbie seeking census data:

> Are Traitors or Loyalists more popular?
> Most and least popular Loyalists
> Most and least popular Traitors
> Relative popularity of Custodes, Mechanicum, Auxilia and Militia
> Relative 'health of the meta' regarding spam lists and especially common builds

Has there been a large-scale Heresy event since Inferno that might have some kind of population data?

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>>54869580

t b h its not even the release schedule that has stopped me from playing HH, its that 8th has fixed so much dumb shit with the base system that I can't go back.

I'll happily play HH once they update the base rules. Considering that 19 armies in the game are just variations of the base marine rules, I can't imagine it would be all that difficult.

>>54889311
It's hard to gauge the first one, especially given numbers of Traitor legions as Loyalists.

Most popular: fluctuates but i've been been seeing more Ultramarines recently. Lots of IF, IH and Sal as well. Least: White Scars easily.

Most pop Traitors: Iron Warriors and Deathguard. Least popular I dare say Word Bearers.

I personally play Mechanicum, but its hardly unknown for a community to possess 1 or 2 Mechanicum players, with most players using a handful of units.

Auxilia is quite rare. Custodes are increasingly more common as a secondary project army.

There isn't a list of perfect carbon-copy lists but there are a few units you see very often: Veterans, Quad Mortars, Leviathan and Cortus Dreadnoughts; most lists will have at least 2 of those. I sense the Arcus will become more common as the months roll on.

>>54885628
>To keep the player base from going into freefall they really need to do two things - update the game to 8th (or something based on it), and produce the next book.
Giving the game worse rules will only help in the short term.

And yeah, they do need to rush Angelus but FW doesn't do good work when they rush. I don't see any good solutions.

Is there anymore info on Legion company level organization than the red paged spread in one of the black books? All I gathered from it is that companies are nominally 100 Marines, but can be more. The example given is a company with 3 lieutenants leading 25-50 marines each.

What is the group under the lieutenant called? Would think it's a platoon, but that's just me assuming.

Is the "tactical squad, tactical squad, support squad" organization just an example? Could a platoon have a breacher squad, a assault squad and a seeker squad?

Are "company assets" elements attached to a company or elements taken from a battalion/chapter/legion pool? Meaning are they part of the company, just separate from the normal command structure?

>>54888177
>>54888698
Why would a Pessimist be nonplussed if something is bad? you do know that means really confused & surprised right?

>>54889939
>t. Death Guard player

>>54890035
>pessimist so pathetic they fuck up their own meme.
like pottery

>>54869840
>BFG 2.0 sounds hype as shit too.
Are there any infos out?

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>>54890109
Not much other than its being planned and will be set during the heresy (during terra according to >>54869822)

I just love BFG so I cant wait for it to come back

>mfw models for Vengeful Spirit and maybe even Bucephelus

>>54881439
Where are these shoulder Pads from?

>>54890035

>Man who thought he'd lost all hope loses last additional bit of hope he didn't even know he still had

>>54881439
Where do people get all these fancy powerswords and power-gladii? I'm jealous.

>>54890109
They haven't started working on it. We just got Tony Cottrell's wishlisting.

>>54890187
>>54890246
This guy literally buys hundreds of pounds' worth of WF minis to get conversion bits for his characters. Or (more likely) he has a hell of a bits box from when he used to work at FW. And he probably added those decorations himself.

Just a generic HH fan here that enjoy models from forge world. I have one question: why FW doesn't have still provide yet a conversion sheet for white scars?

>>54890663
>Why did they get rid of the Luna Wolves transfers?
The world may never know Anon

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>>54890663
>why FW doesn't have still provide yet a
>why
>FW
>doesn't
>have
>still
>provide
>yet
>a

>>54890663
FW works in mysterious ways Anon, perhaps they don't dedicate the art team to such things until they're also working on book art?

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>>54890663

>why FW doesn't have still provide yet a conversion sheet for white scars?

Did you have a seizure while writing that?

>>54890884
Some languages really complicate the use of still and yet. And I can see how a translator might spit out "conversion" for "transfer".

>>54889418

I'm in the same boat. Now I'm used to 8th ed, 7th just feels like this bloated, overcomplicated mess. Once HH gets updated to 8th, I'm going to be all about it, though.

>>54874230
i am not the guy asking either. I'm just a happy auteur, but my first airbrush was a lucky find of a harder& steenbeck pro infinity, it's on the higher middle end (i think) of the cost for an airbrush, but i've fallen in love with it. I the beginning i just used it for simple shit like base colours, shading and getting even metallic schemes, and it's functioning and eventual errors were like arcane secrets to me. But i'd like to believe i've grown with it. I'm raelly happy with it,.

good advice about pistol grip, this would have been a good nugget of info for me at the beginning as well.

>>54875514
Depends on what legion and if you want weapons or legion specific shit (egyptian, byzantine, vikings and so forth) but in general

Spellcrow
anvil
puppetwars

and special mention to POP! goes the monkey on shapeways. i only have some "NOT ALPHA LEGION" (hydra) stuff, but i'ts really nice for variety.

>>54879156
This is a pretty good summary of the situation.

I agree with it, i feel like there is something "off" with 8'th, at least to me, i can see that people are pretty happy so far but the cracks are starting to show, particularly in regards to

>first turn wins a lot
>Knights still being ridiculous to beat
>IF you don't like imperium/chaos- tough luck for a goodly while


But this might just me going "reeeeeeee" i can see the majority of my friends playing 40k and enjoying it, i wish i felt the same but i can't after playing 30k. In general, i also feel that the community is stronger and less filled with power gaming and angry strangers ( i play strangers at a local basement club) again, this is just my personal experiences. I realize they are worthless from a objective point of view.

>>54880578
Sons of horus are pretty good at being aggressive, nice characters and good elites as well as RoW.

Also you get to "The" bad guys. Always fun to be the Big Bad .

>>54891485
>first turn wins a lot
I'd say that's actually less of a problem as you can't set up pure deepstrike armies and can't delete units off the table as easily anymore.
>Knights still being ridiculous to beat
They're easier to kill than ever, just pack Lascannons

I came here and exppected a lot more negativity and death.

I'm actaully still pretty stoked for heresy, i'm starting my third army, and second legion (Nightlords) i'm super stoked about the fact that i can finally realize my Terror assault army, and i lucked out in buying someone elses Bitz and bobz for conversions.

Looking forward to getting in some game with my traitor mechanicum as well.

what are YOU building or playing?

>>54891439

Speaking of which, what kind of aesthetic would accurately describe the Emperor's Children?

>>54891571
dunnae man. I've only played two games of eight. I ain't gonna bullshit and say i was ever great at this game but i did play a lot of 5'th through 7'th. And i managed to charge a guy on turn one with deepstriking jump troops on turn one, and then charge into the next group. The game was over by turn three, BA vs Necrons. I get tha games are over quicker, but i could never get a double charge in turn one before, but now i can just DS whenever i want. Am i reading that rule correct?

The next game was a pretty good game, De vs Tau ( i have too much shit) and i won, but i suspect it was because my friends tried to play Tau like he did in 7'th. His ghostkeels did pretty good and the stealth suits better than usual. We had fun.

I stuck around and saw a guy win three games in a row ( they each took like 25- 30 minutes) with about four knights, he had first turn each time and there was no stopping him.

Again, this is early in 8'th and i'm sure it will change as strategies do. But Lascannons was not really an issue to the guy.

Do you play 30k and 40k? can i get some genunie feedback on your experiences?

>>54891667
good question, depends if you're going for early Heresy (not a lot of deviating aesthetics) or late crusade ( we do cocaaaiiineeeeeeeee)

for late heresy i'd recommend the spell crow "bedlam fraternity" yes, there are a lot of vents, speakers and strange grilles, but in the books at least, that meshes with the sonic implants they are getting. For early crusade non witchy poo shit i would reccommend a lot of Byzantine stuff

https://bitsofwar.com/home/556-bedlam-fraternity-torsos.html

and scibor does a lot of stuff that is rerely used, that if you cut and paste can give you a unique feel,

http://www.sciborminiatures.com/en_,shop.php?group=153

also the BA kits have a lot of "sculpted abs" stuff that would probably mess well when painted gold.

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>>54891667
Rococo?

>used a more jocular, florid, and graceful approach
>style was ornate and used light colours, asymmetrical designs, curves, and gold

>>54891673
>dunnae man. I've only played two games of eight. I ain't gonna bullshit and say i was ever great at this game but i did play a lot of 5'th through 7'th. And i managed to charge a guy on turn one with deepstriking jump troops on turn one, and then charge into the next group. The game was over by turn three, BA vs Necrons. I get tha games are over quicker, but i could never get a double charge in turn one before, but now i can just DS whenever i want. Am i reading that rule correct?
That mostly means that his deployment was shit, bubblewrapping against deepstrikers is vital especially as you can fall back from melee now. Mark my words, in 3 months everybody will have 2~3 cheap units just for denying deepstrikes.

>Do you play 30k and 40k
I played like one game of 30k proxying my Utramarine Infantry horde for a Logos Lectora, only read the books apart from that.
From what I saw, having Terrain on the board is more important than ever to mitigate these alpha strikes (which definitely are a problem if the board is empty), but with about 1/3rd of the board covered with LOS blockers, 8th makes for much better tactical games than 7th. In no game I've played so far were squads just deleted turn 1, hugging cover always worked to some degree and infantry is far far better at taking out knights in 8th because you can plonk them down in some ruin and use any of the D6 damage weapons to fuck them up.

>>54891594
Still chipping away at my Imperial Fists at the moment, with some Custodes to tag along.

I'm pretty bad at keeping a regular schedule so it'll probably be a while before I finish.

Also, what do you guys think a good Contemptor pose is?

>>54891828
Personally i think it is hard to have a bad one for the custodes ones.

for my Ranged one's i have them slightly hunched or simulating taking cover, for my Close combat ones i have them leaned slightly to make it look like movement.

you want to avoid the pose where it seems like they are falling forward.

But shit, my Plasma cannon+ heavy flamer one just stole this pose from FW

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99550102214_ALPHALEGIONCONTEMPTORDREADNOUGHT3.jpg

but with a hand extended to flame shit.

>>54891805
bubblewrapping against deepstrikers is vital especially as you can fall back from melee now. Mark my words, in 3 months everybody will have 2~3 cheap units just for denying deepstrikes.

Probably, and that would make sense, but i think that might not help as much as people think, if you survive, yes, you can pull back and the "protected" squad can shoot. But im 80% sure that GW will make more rules that favor CC. It ties into the whole "make assault viable" i also think that a lot of this whole edition relies on GW adapting to shifting meta and new "power-combo" shit being made to work. I'm sure they could, the codex appprobved is a great suggestion and if it works out, then great!

I played like one game of 30k proxying my Utramarine Infantry horde for a Logos Lectora, only read the books apart from that.
From what I saw, having Terrain on the board is more important than ever to mitigate these alpha strikes (which definitely are a problem if the board is empty), but with about 1/3rd of the board covered with LOS blockers, 8th makes for much better tactical games than 7th. In no game I've played so far were squads just deleted turn 1, hugging cover always worked to some degree and infantry is far far better at taking out knights in 8th because you can plonk them down in some ruin and use any of the D6 damage weapons to fuck them up.

i'd say that having 75% of the board covered with some sort of terrain is necessary in 30k. It feels more thematic, but more importantly it makes for more even matches.

I get where you're coming from and i think that is a good point. Personally i kind of dislike the idea of removing templates and choosing who dies first, i think it removes from the tactical depth of the game as a whole. But it sure does cut down on the time.

For 30k i think tha allowing multi-bombing is a good way to get rid of tanks, the wide availability of them mitigating a lot of armor heavy armies i see when playing.

good feedback, cheers

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>>54891828

>>54891984
>Personally i kind of dislike the idea of removing templates and choosing who dies first
As any way you could make squads sticking together be more worthwhile would add too much minutiae to the game to remain playable, templates had to go sadly. Letting the Defender choose keeps mixed weapon squad relevant, so it's pretty necessary as well.

>For 30k i think tha allowing multi-bombing is a good way to get rid of tanks, the wide availability of them mitigating a lot of armor heavy armies i see when playing.
Still artillery is ridiculous in removing infantry. Heavy armour just needs an overall cost increase, 30k is word of tanks right now.

>>54891571
>I'd say that's actually less of a problem as you can't set up pure deepstrike armies and can't delete units off the table as easily anymore.
It's proving to be a problem in competitive situations - we're talking about 83% win rates for the player going first in a certain subset of games. It's not hard to figure out why; there's more movement, and units can generally shoot better after moving than they could in 7th.

In friendly games it's not a problem if the players don't prep the whole army for alpha strikes.

>>54892172
Honestly they should just have the first player shoot at a global -1 in first turn.

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Who fixes and maintains the Custodes equipment?

As I understand it, they're not made by Admech but Terran artificers. I also understood it that Custodes use Terran made stuff (as oppose to, say, Martian volkites and such) to keep them independent of the Mechanicum and its control on their technology. So would this mean the hosts have their own, non-Mechanicum mechanics with them?

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>>54870351
Smashing. They're all brits in space. Jaghatai was, at the beginning, actually written as a brit continuously squinting all the time.

Malcador infernus, 2x dracosan, 2x volkite veletaris for $200. All legit FW, unpainted but the malc and a dracosan are built.

Did I do gud?

>>54892259
Needs more Solar Auxilia.

>>54892240
Tech-custodes possible...

>>54892240
Could be the few remaining artificers not aligned with the Mechanicum, like the Terawatt clan conquered early in the Unification.
Ferrus and Fulgrim met when they were forging their own weapons, and the actual forge had been built by the Terawatt, in the Urals.

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>>54870057
Something that I dont understand is how the only asian primarch landed in an asian world.Did he modify his appeareance?Or the emperor already knew that he was going to land there?

And what about Vulkan?The only black skin dude lands in a world full of black skins people?

I think they were all white,and then they adapted to the world they landed.

Also,how Magnus,the only psyker,landed in a world of psykers?

>>54892337
Is suppose there's no art or description what they'd look like.

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>>54892372
There's little information of those ancient days. But I'd say both cybery (they're said to be of a similar creed like the mechanicum) and with power and potentia coils, with lots of variation depending on the individual.

>>54892240
Not sure about who makes their stuff, but I recall somewhere that Custodes do have serfs that help maintain their equipment/provide them with reloaded guardian spears in combat

>>54892365
The Khan looks more Turkic than Mongolian to me, unlike the other White Scars. But they weren't sent to random worlds at all. Chaos chose.

>>54892365
I think that was done by the Chaos gods. More specifically Tzeentch. Imagine if Magnus had landed on Nuceria, Guilliman killed by the poison mists of Barbarus, Corax in Nocturne and Dorn in Nostromo.

>>54892365
What is more likely is that while they were in their pods, the primarches did not actually have physical form, being warp stuff that came into shape resembling the local lifeforms.
You brought up Khan and Vulkan, I'll point you to Russ, Corax and Lorgar.

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>>54892451
>They were pure warp stuff. They are more warp than man
Reminder the only thing that separates a Primarch from a Primaris space marine is HALF of a pituitary-like organ on the head. Only that.
They're supposed to be greater and more perfect space marines, not warp storms woven into human form, not beautiful smart magical ogryns.
Just spacier marinier space marines.

>>54892451
>What is more likely is that while they were in their pods, the primarches did not actually have physical form, being warp stuff that came into shape resembling the local lifeforms.
They were physically present in the lab though

>>54891594
Almost fished with current IH models, needing only Gorgons to round or the collection.

Slowly grinding at the ton of infantry for my SoH as well. Even planning some Mechanicum soon because thallax and myrmidons are the best looking models.

>>54892240
I'd suspect each custodian maintains their own gear, plus they have terran artificers to repair damage and/or keep stuff running.
Given all the ancient shit emps keeps horded on terra it's not even out of the question that they have actual tech constructs (robots & AIs) handling all that.

>>54892240
>So would this mean the hosts have their own, non-Mechanicum mechanics with them?
yes

>>54892240
They must, because the Custodes were active before the Emperor made it over to Mars for the Treaty of Olympia.

In The Master of Mankind, the Emperor has a very, very large group of... slaves? They're described as families bonded to the Emperor's personal service for generation after generation. All kinds of roles, including technical ones. That must include Custodes logistical support.

>>54892412
>>54893749
Would love to convert a pair of old metal techpriests as Terran artificers (using Militia Enginseer Auxilia rules), but I don't want to fuck with the models. They're one of my favorite models.

>>54891984
>but with about 1/3rd of the board covered with LOS blockers, 8th makes for much better tactical games than 7th
I haven't tried 8th yet - can you elaborate on "better tactical games"? I've heard some arguments going the other way, but they didn't mention terrain. I can see it making a big difference.

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>>54890187
>>54890246
>>54890536
The guy is an absolute madman. Here's his cataphractii squad made entirely of converted event only praetor models. He even cannibalizes Primarch models for their bits. This >>54881439 guy has Horus's pteruges.

Can anyone tell me why Chinaman casts have better QA than FW legit casts?

Wich FW knight should I get to kill knights and spartans?

>>54894905
I like the Lancer against knights, but it isn't very flexible. The Atropos would be great too.

>>54894905
Acheron has the Fuck Your Everything chainfist, but the megaflamer doesn't really cut it against AV that heavy. Lancer will win you all the Knight duels with I5, but for general-purpose anti-armour work I prefer the Atrapos. Ranged D, even if only a bit of it, plus Armourbane / possible Vortex cannon with what's essentially slightly better Gets Hot as the only drawback. Also kills annoying Drop Terminators, Primarchs, Anacharis Scorias, robots... Anything with lowish numbers really, but you do pay for it lavishly. If you JUST want enemy heavy AV gone, Lancer. If you want to be able to mix it up with a greater variety of targets and actually play the ranged game, probably shell out the extra points for the Atrapos.

>>54894387
name of said guy or link to his work?

>>54895225
See
>>54881732

He was on 30kchannel recently so you can see his army showcase in the beginning https://youtube.com/watch?v=HgGp5YBBAaY

>>54894905
>>54894979
Speaking of, how's the Castigator?

>>54895500
It'd be better if could shoot at and charge different targets. Could work well here, though.

>>54894613
>Can anyone tell me why Chinaman casts have better QA than FW legit casts?

Uh, they don't?

>>54894613
Nigger half of them don't even understand rudimentary English.

>>54895604
No, they do.

>listening to Descent of Angels
This really isn't so bad. I don't know what all the fuss is about. BTW we finally got a concrete number on how big Primarchs are instead of generic adjectives. The Lion is described as
>a little more than three meters tall
assuming 3.1 meters that makes him 10'2". Has El'Jonson's height ever been compared to his brothers?

>>54887204
>7th rules for 8th
Well, reserves in HH are pretty important to a few legions, plus certain RoWs would wouldn't be usable (OA, DoR, DAV....). 8th currently wouldn't allow any of them at all.
Not sure how exactly this would be implemented, but if we are trying to make HH playable with other 8th edition armies and want to be able to maintain our options, maybe the Legions would get a special rule/keyword that allows us to have more units in reserve and/or maybe certain RoWs could be allowed to affect reserves starting conditions.

Aside from reserves though
>Steer clear of vehicle facings and templates
I can deal without armor values, but i think facings in terms of fire points and lines of sight should be brought back into 8th as a whole only because it does lead to issues and i personally can't stand it when a predator is allowed to fire it's sponsons in a direction they can't even face or while they're obscured by cover. lack of templates are weird because they absolutely neutered some weapons (looking at battle cannons of all kinds) and by extension made certain units very poor (leman russ tanks come to mind)

>>54886073
Lion straight up grew up without human contact until he was at least a teenager, so he genuinely does not understand human interaction.

>>54896503
They don't, buddy ol' pal.
I've had decent casts from both China and Russia, but generally speaking there is a loss of quality with recasting. Shrinking, brittle resin types, double mould lines, wonkiness and lack of quality control for the castable bits is business as usual. That's why I take the time to ask around about the seller first before buying, some do a decent job but it's still a recast.

>>54895362
Anyone know of a good source for Gladii?

>>54895362
Did he take his blog down?

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>>54899353
Pic related was made by chopping the blades off of High Elf Spearmen.

>>54899406
Yeah, he used to have a tutorial up but now you need to pay for his painting classes. Somebody wrote it down here http://heresy30k.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/10036-mka-scheme/ and apparently https://www.bookface.com/groups/heresypainting/ has the images backed up but I don't use facebook and they've declined my throwaway accounts.

>>54899844
>Yeah, he used to have a tutorial up but now you need to pay for his painting classes.
Which will no longer be offered...

>>54894387

>The guy is an absolute madman. Here's his cataphractii squad made entirely of converted event only praetor models. He even cannibalizes Primarch models for their bits.

I must say though, it's probably an awful lot easier to get your greasy mitts on primarch bits when you work for FW.

>>54900863
>americans invent complete opposite meaning of a word
>they think that counts
Learn to speak your language properly

>>54897706

>Well, reserves in HH are pretty important... Not sure how exactly this would be implemented

Why not just port over 7th's reserve rules wholesale? Rolling, scattering, the lot. They're not that difficult to put in the books as an addition, much as HH had different scoring and FOC rules from 7th.

>facings in terms of fire points and lines of sight should be brought back into 8th as a whole

That is something that I find flawed about 8th overall, it applies equally to both 30k and 40k. More of a gripe than something which is essential to porting 30k over to 8th.

>lack of templates are weird because they absolutely neutered some weapons (looking at battle cannons of all kinds)

Good. All the weapons that are most grotesque and game breaking in 30k are blast weapons, they need a thorough neutering. One of the great benefits of getting rid of templates would be that quad mortars and medusas would be far less able to delete swathes of marines every turn though FW seem intent on bringing OP artillery back into the game, what with their heavy 4D6 sicarian arcus.

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>>54900932
>being this butthurt because you cant speak english properly and fucked up your own meme

>>54900932
>being muslim is worse than being a nazi
you know how i know that you're retarded?

>>54901002
>america has far more english speakers than britain, which is even as we speak slowly fading in the scheme of global hegemony
>b-but we make the rules!!!!!

You are nothing and less than nothing.

>>54900985
I agree with the general idea here: FW could add plenty of rules to 8th to bring back more complex reserve rules, armor facings, and stronger blast weapons. Probably not the extent of the current 30k rules for any of those, but some.

In 7th, I'm annoyed by how long it takes to get a squad in a Storm Eagle into combat. And I could live with simpler armor facing rules (e.g. "If hit in rear 45-degree arc, +1 to wound roll"). And some of FW's 8th ed. blast weapon rules aren't bad. I think there's one that's D3 + D3 for every 5 models in a squad.

>>54901040
>still in denial you fucked up and used a word wrongly
>stay mad boyo

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>>54890246
that sword is from the ultramarine honour guard

but at this point there's a bunch of similar plastic alternatives. Both ultramarine upgrade sprues have roman styled blades in them.

>>54900863
I'm American and nonplussed means confused; using it wrong enough times does not make it mean the opposite. That online dictionary is not helping.

>>54900985
>>54901058
I'm honestly interested to see what FW's 7.5 ruleset ends up looking like, could be pretty good if they combine the right things

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>>54901021
Nazism is an ideology of peace, violent Nazis are not true nazis m'kay.

There is no leader but Hitler, and Richard Spencer is his prophet (PBUH).

For real though, they are more closer than you think or have been thought

>>54901068
>using it wrong enough times does not make it mean the opposite

Then why is "a dice" a thing now?

>>54901063
>dictionary says one thing
>but random brit on a Taiwanese pottery board knows better

um try again sweetie :)

>>54901093
Wrong things are common, but still wrong.

I'm guilty of it, too; I can't help but use "begging the question" the same way everyone else does even though it's wrong.

>>54901102
>google
>dictionary
And even that states its not an official meaning

It is okay to admit when you're wrong champ ;)

>>54901124
Languages are not a hard science and do not stay definitive, they change and mutate constantly.

To draw an arbitrary line is to miss the point and beauty of it.

>>54901128
>he's a prescriptivist
Try getting laid first then consider your opinion

Quick! Post the last unit you finished to get the thread back on track

>>54901149
Don't worry, one day you'll be able to speak english fluently like a real boy, just keep studying and I'm sure you can do it.

>>54901175
Are you the type of person who has an apoplexy when he sees "five items or less"?

I have a video for you, made by a brit himself
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY

>>54901074

Prepare yourself for disappointment, anon. FW have already declared that 7.5 is just a copy/paste job of 7th with redundant rules removed and AoD ones included along with things like 'furious assault' and a bunch of typos. It's just a chance to spend a fortune on rules that GW proper no longer publish. Nothing is going to change at all.

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>>54901153
Finished model,
imgur.com/a/rlDfU

Pic is my wip praetor.

>>54901195
>he's still mad
wow dude, seriously?

>>54901233
eh you never know, we'll see.

>>54901234
looks interesting! where did you get the back spike/candles thing?

>>54901257
>no argument
>u r le salty

I would tell you to go back to r*ddit but I think twitter is more fitting.

I'd recommend reading DFW since you seem like a bright man who is just buried under so many layers of irony that he can't be sincere if his life depended on it. There is, in essence, nothing wrong with our discussion of the proper use of language, especially in a dead general, and if you didn't want to continue you could just say it.

Cheers.

>>54901234
That chest armour is weirdly plain when the limbs are so fancy.

>>54901299
What.

You posted a youtube video man, that's hardly a argument.

>>54901319
It wasn't an argument, just wanted to broaden your horizons a bit, make you consider an opinion not your own.

I'm saying that your response was a complete non-sequitur. If I was really frothing with rage, you would've been better off not replying at all, leaving me stewing.

>>54869822
I just want White Scars. I'm going to be dead before their full rules come out.

But I'll get to play some sweet Necromunda as I slip off the mortal coil.

>>54901332
Hey I'd consider an opnion if it actually had any value.

Prescriptivism for life!

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>>54901366
We still have great rules.

But I'm stuck at pauldron markings... do I buy the shoulder pads with raised detail (generally not my favorite), or use 40k decals? I don't expect a FW decal sheet for a very long time.

>>54901383
Prescriptivism is faulty because it takes a scientific approach to a social, living thing.

You can't say that one type of speaking is superior to another because they're in the end all subjective

>>54901405

We do, yeah. But I would like our special units or some other jetbikes before I sink a shedload of cash into an army all on Scimitars.

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>>54901257

>eh you never know, we'll see.

>https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/26/a-new-rulebook-for-the-horus-heresy/

To quote:

>Neil: There won’t be any major changes to the game. Instead, the rulebook is designed to be a better resource for Horus Heresy players dedicated to your needs during a game and filled with information relevant to you. A good example of this is the Special Rules section; rules not present in the Horus Heresy like And They Shall Know No Fear won’t be featured, while common rules like Legiones Astartes and Agile will be, making this section, and the book as a whole, much easier to use as a reference guide for Battles in the Age of Darkness.
>The book will also include rules from now out-of-print expansions like Stronghold Assault in the book. You’ll be able to protect your Legions with Aegis Defence Lines and other fortifications from the previous edition of Warhammer 40,000.
>If you’ve never tried Battles in the Age of Darkness and have always wanted to, this book is your perfect way to get on board, while seasoned players finally have a rulebook exclusively for the Horus Heresy.

Yeah, good luck with that.

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We have been through a long journey, guys. The HH has neared its end.

BL is preparing to wrap it up. It should finish in 2018. What do you guys want to see in the coming final books? What parts of the story you want written by your favorite authors? Personally, I want ADB writing the final fight.

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>>54901257
>looks interesting! where did you get the back spike/candles thing?
Thanks, it's from the top of the AoS Lord Relictor standard. Since this picture I've swapped his thunder hammer for a cataphractii one and bough him some shoulder pads, one is the fancy pad from the FW Dark Angels indomitus terminator pads and the other is the lion pad from the Lugft Huron model. This guy is an expensive model, I hope I manage to paint it well enough to do it justice.

>>54901305
I didn't notice that until you pointed it out. I'll see if I can fit anything there but I doubt it, it's one of those things that only shows up in pictures and not on the model.

>>54901533
>Personally, I want ADB writing the final fight.
probably trolling, but Abnett or nothing

>>54901533

>BL's heresy series will be finished before Angelus is released

>>54901620
It will actually be M31 before Angelus is released

>>54901533
>Horus Heresy is finished
>The Scouring is announced
I want John French to write an Iron Cage novel. :)

>>54901487
Some guy at FW told someone's hypothetical friend's mom's cousin that they were taking the extra time to make it better than that. I want to believe.

I'll be nonplussed if they don't. Feel free to interpret that both ways.

>>54901487
I fucking hope they put Daemons into the Alliance chart, just so I finally know what type of allies they are.

>>54901811

>Some guy at FW told someone's hypothetical friend's mom's cousin that they were taking the extra time to make it better than that.

BaC wishlisting, in all likelihood. Even if there is some truth to it, I'd bet that what they mean by 'better' is that they're adding some art and fluff so that you can lug around a book that's twice the size you need it to be, and perhaps giving it a cursory proofread.

The chatter out of the recent open day was all about FW's staff having been redirected onto specialist games anyway, and how HH stuff was being postponed because they haven't hired anyone new. I'd suspect that the delays 'to make it better' are the same kind of delays that allowed them to put more effort into Inferno to make it better, ie: it's on hold because nobody is working on it.

>>54886488
>>54886451
Whoa holy fuck my dudes I didn't realize how big of a difference 7th Ed And They Shall Know No Fear is verses the 8th Ed version. Going from auto-regroup to a re-roll is rough.

Seeing how Legiones Astartes let you test morale tests normally, and now that it appears that there's only one way to test for morale, this rule will have to do someone else entirely.

What will it do? Same thing as ATSKNF? Makes the Morale check a 1d3 plus casualties vs Leadership instead of 1d6 plus casualties vs Leadership? I'm at a loss.

>>54902141
>implying HH will ever move to 8th, especially at this pace

>>54902141
Nothing, because it will never be adapted to 8th edition.
And, all in all, it's safe to assume that it would be just cut, since most old morale rules, such as Fearless, in 8th are just gone.

>>54902149
Some people were talking about converting it themselves, thought I'd help brainstorm.

>>54902160
As one of those Anons, nice observation. Never really though about that, I'll make a note about it so once I actually get a chance this weekend to take a look at how to make HH work for 8th.

May be a good time for others to post stuff/ideas as well

>>54902212
Honestly, I'd just remove it. 8th tends towards excising unnecessary rules and this is pretty much one of them, now that morale works totally different.

>>54902212
Just axe it. Leaving some bloat on the cutting room floor is fine on occasion. It's not like the rule was particularly integral to the armies' flavor, unlike, say, ATSKNF – Fury of the Legion and the individual Legion Rules are way more important.

>>54902245
>>54902234
Dope, doing that. The Legion Rules would be Keyword related anyway.

>>54901533
>Personally, I want ADB writing the final fight.
Bill King or nothing.

>>54902234
>>54902245
Looking at rules and shit, the nuncio vox-since Deep Strike no longer scatters, can we think of another purpose or do we axe it?

Related, the Legion vexilla. Re-rolling failed Morale checks is pretty fucking good, keep it as a buy-able piece of wargear or axe it?

>>54902253
If I may:

Legion Rules:
>Night Lords
Enemy units within 3" of a unit of Night Lords subtract one from their Leadership, up to a maximum of -3.

>Iron Hands
Enemy units must subtract -1 from their rolls to wound Iron Hands in the shooting phase.

>World Eaters
Add one to the Attack score of a unit of World Eaters that has successfully charged or been charged.

>Alpha Legion
Whenever your opponent spends any Command Points, roll a d6 for each point spent. On a 5+ you gain one Command Point.

>Ultramarines
Whenever you spend any Command Points, roll a d6 for each point spent. On a 5+ you are refunded one Command Point.

>Word Bearers
When taking a Battleshock test for a Word Bearer unit, roll a d6: An a 3+ this unit cannot lose more than a single model to this test.

>White Scars
White Scars units can fire Assault and Rapid Fire weapons as if stationary even after Advancing.

>Dark Angels
Dark Angel units can reroll 1s to hit in the melee phase

>Blood Angels
Dark Angel units can reroll 1s to wound in the melee phase

>Imperial Fists
Re-roll 1s to hit when using Boltgun, Bolt Pistol, Heavy Bolter or Combi-bolter.

>Sons of Horus
You can reroll Advance and Charge rolls for units of Sons of Horus.

>Salamanders
Reroll one hit, wound or save roll for each Salmander unit every turn.

>Iron Warriors
Roll two dice when determining the number of shots made for ranged weapons with a random value of Heavy and pick the highest result.

>Emperor's Children
no idea

>Death Guard
no idea

>Raven Guard
Instead of deploying regularily, you can set up units of Raven Guard in the shadows. At the start of your movement phase, you can deploy them anywhere to the table further than 9" away from any enemy. This is their movement for this turn.

Thousand Sons
Add +1 to all friendly psychic tests for every Thousand Son unit within 9" of the psyker and add +1 to the the number of Mortal Wounds caused by Smite.

Space Wolves
no idea

>>54902329
- Nuncio allows to deploy within 3" of enemy units if the unit arrives within 6" of the Nuncio
- Vexilla allows to roll a die for each model that books it, on a 6+ it does not flee.

>>54902649
I wasn't even thinking Legion Specific rules yet, just the basic Troops Squad so far. I was gonna work my way up from there.

Almost have something presentable.

>>54902234
>>54902245
>>54902253
Putting the axe to it may be the case but I do think certain legions will have rules that play with morale
>>54902329
The vexilla could be kept, but due to how good a full re-roll is, there may be a price hike to it
As for the nucio-vox, no idea

>>54902649
Personally, while these rules could work, and they definitely feel like what the current CSM and SM codices got, they lack a lot of what made the Legions feel unique. Even in 7th Ed, the Legion specific rules were always more beefed up than any chapter tactic or chaos legion tactic. Obviously some sacrifices and changes will need to be made, but I feel that the legion rules still should be fairly beefed up compared to chapter/legion tactics

>>54901533
I don't know man. ADB would probably do it extremely well, he's the one the transcripts the sheet awesomeness of 49k the best imo, but goddamn it'd be risky with his Chaos Boner.
Haley or Wraight ould be great as well imo. Interestingly enough, I learned that Wraight is a goddamn Doctor in English, which probably explains a thing or two.

>>54902329
I'd take a look at AoS rules for inspiration.
AoS has the Knight-Azyros, which fulfills a similar role as the Nuncio Vox and allows units it its aura to ignore deepstriking restrictions (as long as they stay out of melee range). That might be the way to go here.
As for the Vexilla, AoS has a whole bunch of different ones, but my favorites are the ones that allows for units to try and retain fleeing models (usually on a 5+).

>>54902787
Sometimes less is more, and, well, there'd obviously still strategems, relics, command traits and the like to really hammer home the differences. Plus the legion-specific units and such.

>>54902329
>Vox

Extend the range of bonuses Characters grant? So the re-roll of 1s to hit withing 6" of a captain would become 12" or something.

>Vexilla

+1 Ld. while Bearer is alive?

>>54902675
I kinda like this one, maybe tone down the Nuncio effect. 6" maybe.

>>54902809
The vox idea could be cool, removing the deep strike distance restrictions, but most models that can take one currently are shoot/backfield units

>>54902827
>Strategems and Command traits
They very well could, but again the issue I see with the legions is that one of each just isn't enough. Plus I do think we should try to incorporate some draw backs too, even if minor, it gives them more detail in a way

>>54902990
>>54902956
>>54902809
https://pastebin.com/75ssRq0k

Give this a look. I have no idea how to give the Tactical Squad a "point tax" so I decided not to. They're 12 points a model, because they can break relatively easily compared to a 40k marine.

>>54902990
>but most models that can take one currently are shoot/backfield units
That's what makes it balanced. Either use it defensively as a counter-deepstrike or stuff it in a transport and rush it down the field.

>>54903289
Don't bother including the general weapon options like powerswords or combi-weapons in the weapon profiles. It only takes up space. Just keep it to bolter, boltpistol, grenades and chainsword.
Same for the Sergeant options. Just say he has access to the Ranged and Melee wargear lists.

Also, change Fury of the Legion to make Boltguns Rapid Fire 2 when not moving or disembarking. Double-tap boltpistols in melee are too much and really go against the spirit of the rule.

The rest seems fine.

>>54903289
>No 2 attacks on the sergeant
>No option to take an additional chainsword/combat blade

Two things that caught my eye, namely the second one though

The rest seems fine, also I like >>54903491 idea for FotL

>>54903635
Oh whoops, fixing the sergeant.
I'm not sure how to give them the extra weapon because they're free. I guess it doesn't matter?

>>54903491
Implimented

>>54903671
It can have a point/power level cost, it just has to be for every one. It's like when an intercessor squad swaps out the bolt rifle for a stalker bolt rifle, everyone pays the 2 or 1 point for it. We're just making it so they gain an additional weapon

>>54903671
>free

We're not talking about chainaxes here. You could always put the price as, say, 2pts. and lover the cost of units that come with it accordingly. Like make assault marines and vets cost 2pts. less without weapons and when you add the cost of their wargear, the price becomes the "correct" one.

>>54903871
I'll leave it as is for now. I honestly don't see charging for them as worth it.

>>54903671
>The unit may either replace their boltgun with a chainsword or may instead choose to wield a chainsword in addition to their boltgun.
Done.