/btg/ BattleTech General

>>54760794
Is this a C or D class refit on the Akuma1XJ?
1) Remove a ton of cluster ammo
2) Remove a ton of MRM ammo
3) Add Apollo
4) Remove MPLs
5) Replace ERLL with HPPC
6) Add Heat Sink

>>54760798
C, since you're not adding equipment where there isn't any as far as I can tell.

>>54760830
I think that would be a great refit kit. Does DC still produce Akumas or have old ones in stock in 3150?

>>54760865
It's meh really. MRMs are still dogshit, despite trying to flog them uphill. I'd prefer an MML, or splurge on a Clantech LRM-20.

Apollo is canon right? There aren't some plot shenanigans that render it invalid?

>>54760879
Yeah, I think you think they are dogshit because you never used Apollo. An MRM 40 hits like a brick.

>>54760891
I think they're dogshit because I've used them both with and without. They're mediocre at best with Apollo, and then you have the cluster penalty. But hey, you do you anon. I've experienced the mediocrity and I have no desire to do it frequently.

>>54760879
see, i don't think thats your honest opinion. I think you are saying 'meh' cause you are afraid your own shit is dogshit and you don't want to say anything nice about anyone elses shit. I'd ask to hear your reasoning behind it, but I'm pretty sure I would be dissapointed in it, as though it were either facile or meant to take someone down a peg.

If you can give me a good reason why its not a substantial, low-cost improvement to the original, I'm going to have to declare you a hater.

>>54760904
Whats that bitchnuts?
You think its a great design and you want to see more?
You would rather smash your nuts in a vice than run MRM's without Apollo?

It's best to just remove Akuma altogether, and insert a Devastator in its stead.

I mean, why bother with inferior garbage when everyone can just bring FedCom or Clan supers instead?

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>>54760883

Canon, but shit.

I mean, you can paint a pile of dogshit gold but it still isn't going to make it not dogshit.

>>54760891

If you can hit between the +3 (usually more) penalties for MRMs and range, sure. And while Apollo does make it easier to hit, it then fucks up your damage. Might as well just mount Light PPCs once those are added or an LL/ML battery before.

>>54760972

You could unfuck it with CASE, C3, and an S-SRM battery. Or by removing 1 SHS and swapping the MRM-30 for another LB-10X.

I prefer going 200% REMOVE CLAN with it though. My DONUT STEEL OC was a rich nuffie Samurai who swanned through the PLO, expected to get the family Warhammer with a posting to the Deiron Regulars, and instead got shipped off to the Pesht Regulars in a captured Davion Shadow Hawk as a message from daddy to shape the fuck up just in time to get pwned by the Clans. Eventually rose to command a battalion in the Second SoL and was one of the last loyalists fighting in the Jihad.

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>>54760936

MRMs are shit with or without Apollo.

I'm sure you've just discovered the weapon system and your dreams are alive with the idea of hitting for 40 points of damage. Which admittedly would be pretty awesome.

If it fucking happened. At all. Ever.

Most of the time you'll miss. Apollo can help with that, some. But even when you do hit it is extremely rare to get the full spread, and will almost never happen with Apollo.

Pic related is legit one of the smartest uses of MRMs and even it basically requires you to be the bodyguard for a C3 company commander. Or you can just use sensible and fun weapons to contribute a shit ton more to the unit instead.

>>54760891
>An MRM 40 hits
Lol no.

>>54758449
>The fabled Cerberus, with its 11 tons of armour (that's right, the 3025 Crusader has better protection...)

Doesn't the Crud use standard and the Cerb FF... ?

>>54762426
Yes but the Crud has 12 tons of it, and IS FF is lousy. The Crud actually doesn't have better protection, but not by much, AV 192 to the Cerb's 197. Doesn't change the fact that the Cerberus is horribly thin skinned for a 95 ton mech, even if not classic Cyclops bad. Or he might have been thinking of a Thunderbolt, since it does out armor the Cerberus and many 3025 assaults.

I think Clan FF levels of protection should have been that of IS FF with Clans only getting the benefit of less crits, LFF would give the protection of current IS FF, and HFF would give commercial armor levels of protection.

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>>54762523

What shits me is how easy all that is to fix.

>>54762523
That is weird. With armour like that I'd have thought the Cerberus would be a FWL mech.

>>54762916

Dracs export it to the Purple Burds.

The Burds actually have a faction-exclusive (initially, later shared with Cappies and Robes) version that drops one GR for an ER PPC, extra armour, and another two MPLs.

A lot of Drac 'Mechs have pretty poor armour though.

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Is there a place where i can find random (or not) people to play megamek with? I have been searching for random battletech discords but the ones i found are dead.

>>54762911
That's a factory refit that requires endo-steel.

Simpler Fix would be:

1) Remove AMS
2) Remove MG's
3) Remove Heat Sinks
4) Add 5 tons of armor

I think that's a class D refit, so it would still work as a field kit.

>>54762523
There is never any reason to use Ferro Fibrous over Endo-Steel if Endo-Steel is available.

>>54764632
I've never gotten more than half a ton out of light ferro either.

>>54764632
Why?

>>54764659
Because Endo Steel always delivers more tonnage. Aside from refits, if your designing a new mech from the ground up or retooling a factory, you should always use endo steel if you have the crits for it, and should never take ferro over endo because ferro delivers less tonnage.

>>54764692
Technically Clan Ferro can break even at certain weights (mostly lights and low end mediums) even when maxed out, but of course the "technically" is because you can just use both easily with Clantech.

>>54764652
I find light ferro to be more of a filler. Situations where I've already got everything I really want, and I've got some free crits but not enough for regular FF, so fuck it, may as well throw on LFF and maybe stick and extra ML or whatever extra points of armor I can on.


Also one thing to remember about FF is vehicles, since endo doesn't exist for them. HFF in particular becomes way more usable.

>>54762911
New to mech creation here, could you go through what steps you did?

>>54764513
>remove AMS
Is it not worth a darn tabletop? In the video games it was GOAT.

>>54764652
>>54764950
What's better, light ferro or heavy ferro? I've never used either.

>>54765054

Using Endo. None of the IS's so-called "advanced" armors are worth a damn except for Stealth and Hardened. Endo steel is always better, period, every time.

>>54765034
It's pretty iffy. Nice if thunderbolt missiles are involved, but against most stuff they just take a bit of the edge off a hit and a single AMS can only engage one missile attack per turn, and can't even destroy an entire flight outside of TacOps rules. Old school rules they could take a big bite out and even destroy whole flights, but potentially could also burn through an entire ton of ammo in a single intercept.

>>54765054
I'd say light only because it's way more usable, even if the extra protection isn't much. While heavy ferro just slightly edges out Clan ferro in protection and I think at a few weights can even be slightly better than endo, 21 crits is a lot of fucking space. It's pretty much restricted to lights and mediums that aren't carrying many guns and don't have many external DHS. Heavies and assaults are pretty much always going to be carrying too big/too many guns to ever really use it.

Though on tanks HFF is great, especially the heavies and assaults because they usually have way more item slots than they'll ever use anyway.

>>54765207
>Stealth
I wish my impoverished state that purged intellectuals could come up with something like that.

what is the Capellan secret?

>>54765428
Line Developer fiat?

>>54763634

Could always poke the IRC for a game. I'm generally down for a game if I'm about.

>>54765207

So far as I know, the best reasons to use FF over ES is if you're using campaign rules for refitting, because changing armors is trivial, while ES requires access to a factory.

>>54765428
Dunno, but it was exactly the same way in reality.
Stealth is a concept invented by Russians and simply made public, being the cornerstone of all US stealth planes. Like, the book that publicized it was literally translated into English by the US Air Force engineers. Scientists are simply not the guys who run around breaking regimes, unlike your usual Law majors with prospects of securing a seat somewhere comfortable.

>>54765666
The Russians might have thought of it, but they didn't implement it.
Even their submarines (the stealthiest military thing ever made) relied on going fast enough that their loudness didn't matter.

>>54765750
>russian subs
>stealthiest military things ever made
[laughing Seawolfs]

>>54765855
Learn to read.
I said that submarines are the stealthiest thing ever made, but even with that advantage, the Russian ones literally couldn't be quiet, so they relied purely on speed.

>>54765428
>what is the Capellan secret?

That they halfass reingeered a Star League stealth system but fucked it up and couldn't get it all the way. It took the Blakists to do that. And then the robes made it better. Blake Eliason!

>>54761761
>>54761230
An MRM with apollo isn't any less likely to hit than anything else at the same range. A -2 on the cluster table is a very minor tradeoff for 20-30 points of sandblasting.

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So, after some anon bitched about the Vulpes last thread and wanted to kick it out of the Davion inventory - and jokes were made that the Sea Foxes would gladly take it - I made an attempt to clannify the design. Let me know what you think.

>BattleMech, Sea Fox totem
>Chassis: ES
>Armor: FF, 201 points (assume Mad Dog distribution)
>Heat Sinks: DHS 18(36)
>Movement 5/8/5 + MASC
201 points of armor
>4 cERML split between the arms
>cERPPC in the RT
>Extras: TC (2 tons/2 crits for 10 tons of weapons,) MASC, ECM

>>54766072
Opps, forgot: Clan XL engine, no XXL abomination.

>>54766072
>>54766181
But the sea foxes are the ones most trying to push the XXL engine.

Just make it clantech base and you save two tons from the ECM/CASE/MASC conversion you can put towards additional heatsinks or whatever

>>54766949
I think it's not unfeasible for the Foxes to use a cheaper, less explodey engine for their own designs and sell the expensive XXL to other factions. Save on the homefront, profit on all others.

>>54767044
Not unfeasible but also not necessarily the case, the foxes happily use questionable things like the Ha Otoko and MadCat IV.

Also I feel your design loses the flavor of the original mech (i think it resembles a similar sea fox produced mech, the cave lion), that being a skirmisher that has flaws in a slugging match but is amazing if you can juggle it's heat load, gimmicks, and range bands

>>54767409
Eh, dropping a DHS or two for a PPC-Cap would be in the cards, I guess. Or returning to the XXL to free the weight.

>>54765913
Give praise to Blake!

What's a BT fluff change you'd make that you think would make more sense?

Me, I'd have given the Leviathans to the Diamond Sharks and Snow Ravens only.

>>54769276
I would have kept the Leviathans as transports like they were originally built for to move all the Ghost Bears to the IS, and then sold them off to the Sharks in the Early Republic Era and have that be what the space jews built the major OvKhanates around.

Then again, the Blakists engaging all three Lev II's and killing two of them in combat then hurting the third were some of the best fleet moments of the Jihad.

>>54769334
The Robes should have captured one.

That would have been cool.

>>54769402
Fuck yeah, like they salvaged the one at Dieron before they had to flee to Terra and have it be part of the missing fleet like that one Thera they still had at the end of the war.

>>54769276
The FWL becomes a more active player, rather than just the guys what fill the location between one of the protagonist factions and one of the designated mustache twirlers.

>>54769455
They honestly are. It's just nobody really does shit between Duncan's Revolt and the start of the Jihad. They're active in all the rest of their history.

>>54769428
I like this a lot.

>>54765013

Just pulled the Machine Guns and ammo since the rear-firing MGs are a waste of time, removed the two DHS because it barely overheats on a full running alpha, swapped the Ferro-Fibrous armour for Endo Steel, and sank all the saved tonnage into armour so it doesn't die like a bitch every five seconds.

>>54765034

Not really, no. I'd say Guardian ECM is a better investment as a protective device and that has the benefit of doing other things for the same investment of crits and tonnage. No explosive or limited ammo either.

>>54765207

Ballistic-Reinforced is worth it too. Arguably Reflec on very fast units because those should be kiting and are most vulnerable to energy weapons any way.

>>54766057

>An MRM with apollo isn't any less likely to hit than anything else at the same range.

3-hex short range, 8-hex medium, 15-hex long. You're still going to be chewing on unpleasant to-hit modifiers. If MRMs were 5/10/15 like they should always have been it might not be so bad, but they're not, so they are.

>>54769276

Thunderhawk is Lyran exclusive, Nightstar is Feddie, Cerberus unfucked and to the FWL, Devastator is Drac, and Pillager stays Cappie. Et viola, two of the five factions are no longer fucked by Gausswall tactics.

>>54769276

I'd rather the II and III just never even existed. The transport model's not an issue though.

Most of the other stuff I have problems with stem from the War of 3039, so I'd remove the experimental tech from that fight, make it so the Dracs actually fight back worth a damn, and give them substantial enough amounts of SLDF machines that the FedCom would actually be surprised rather than barely be able to tell it wasn't a completely normal regiment if they even realised there was a difference at all. At least that doesn't screw the Clan Invasion as badly due to tech retcons.

>>54765666
>Stealth is a concept invented by Russians and simply made public
Uh.. read Skunk Works. Lockheed's chief engineers go over, extensively, the data they got from the Dornier flying Wing and the SR-71 project, and how it affected the original Stealth Ship and F-117 designs.

>>54770151
My impression was that the guy researched and established the entire field of science required for it.
Engineering is another thing entirely when someone already did the backbreaking math and you're simply applying it.

>>54770183
>implying new radar wavelengths and material didn't have their own mathematics done.
>Implying engineering is just 'applying' concepts.

Stay salty Soviet.

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A fix was requested for this so I'm reposting it. Nothing to see here; carry on.

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Any of you guys have a favorite Mercenary outfit?

>>54772160
Aw hell, it's a toss up. Wolf's Dragoons, Gray Death Legion, Kell Hounds, Cranston Snord's Irregulars, Blazing Aces and Crescent Hawks. I love 'em all.

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>>54772160
Never Give Up. Never Surrender.

2nd place goes to the MAC before they went full state unit.

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>>54772252
You have great taste anon.
I got into Btech from Crescent Hawks Inception so I'll always love them. Had a box set with that revenge and MW1. I can't tell you how many times I tried saving Gideon :( I would love for the lore to be expanded as his dying words were to rebuild.

Also, pic related.

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>>54769428

>>54772368
>I can't tell you how many times I tried saving Gideon
I know the Blazing Aces don't end well, but what did you do to try to save him?
D. Sajak is brunette Lori Kalmar is Corinne Bohrer as hottie of the day. Must ALWAYS hire.

>>54772455
You have 2 options of hot dropping and trying to battle the clanners who surrounded his lone mech.
It's like a full star of meds vs just him and your a bit a way there's no way to do it.

>>54772160
Ones with Clantech that almost never lose.

So Kell Hounds and Wolf's Dragoons.

Why play anything else?

>>54772455
The other option you land and find the pile of mech after the battle.

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I have .5 ton left in a mech I'm working on. Armor is pretty much maxed out.

Should I just throw a small laser on the thing? Maybe rear-facing?

>>54772534

RL-10 or reduce armour and add an ML.

>>54772534
tell us a little more about the mech anon.

>>54772577
Sounds interesting. Never used RLs before.

>>54772578
It's just a variant of an existing assault (Cerberus) based on what I saw other anons working on earlier.

>>54772638
Ah ok, an RL10 would be a good fit and as you just said something you haven't worked with.

>>54769829
>At least that doesn't screw the Clan Invasion as badly due to tech retcons.
Is it really so bad? Even with the tech retcons, the fact that the Clans attacked from the direction of the periphery makes it far less likely that they'd be facing units, at least initially, that had upgraded machines, right? Even with the retcons, it's not like even the best line units were fully upgraded by 3050, or am I remembering wrong?

>>54772160
Laurel's Legion

>>54772252

Jesus, this is like a who's who of bullshit munchkin units. Any merc unit which lasts longer than 10 years is a Sue, full stop.

>>54773120
>people surviving past the age of 10 are Mary Sues
This is you, right now. Shame on you, anon. What would your mother say at this kind of willful retardation?

>>54773099
You're mssing a few key things. Like all the actual line units, including full top level Regimental Combat Teams getting fucked. I mean premier stuff like the 10th Lyran. And how it was the one year stop in 3051 when all the top Clanners went back to the Homeworlds to elect a new ilKhan that gave the IS enough time to upgrade enough stuff to make a difference. And how none of the people at the top military ranks were familiar with most of that equipment.

Clanners were in the Periphery in late-49. They were literally at Radstadt in 3050, halfway to Terra. That's how deep and fast they rolled over everyone.

>>54773178
Those are really entirely different things.

You should taking him to task for his weak Suemerc complaints. Claiming any unit that last more than a year and actually has battlemechs is a Sue is the norm here nowadays.

>>54773341
You mean any merchant group that can afford berth on a jumpship is a sue group.

>>54773341
What scares me, half the posts are serious, half are shit posting.
I get it's a bit a push back because so many people make merc corps where backwaters farm boy finds a madcat in 3025 and happens to be a 1/1 driver also since he's 19 he personally calls Hanse Davion to buy him beer.
But starting companies should have at least a few bugs or it's just.. not BT with out any mechs.

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>>54772160
Camacho's Caballeros, Kristen's Krushers, Romanov's Crusaders, Hansen's Roughriders (fuck the Fedrat retcon), Langendorf Lancers, Smithson's Chinese Bandits, and Burr's Black Cobras.

>>54769276
Too many to count, really
But 90% of non-storyline ones amount to
>rebalance design availability and RATs

>>54773341
>Claiming any unit that... and actually has battlemechs is a Sue

This is 100% true though. Nobody would risk death in a Mech unit wen they could just sell the damn Mech and be set literally for life and (if you've got a Medium or better) the life of your kids.

Humans don't behave in that irrational of a manner. Ever.

>>54773721
Have you heard of Neal Ellis?
The dude has a gun ship and goes around killing people because, he gets to fly a gun ship and kill people.
He's in his 70s and hunting ISIS for free.

>>54773742
>Have you heard of Neal Ellis?

I don't read made up stories.

>>54773721
There's a bunch of economic ways to explain that, if it's more than one person it's pooled money and only one of them knows how to or is the best mech warrior, another is credit. Mercing is big money so you might get a loan to go pirate hunting, you can't sell what you don't own.

>>54773757
He's very real ::
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neall_Ellis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bC0zPngc4c

>>54773767

Because some random guy can afford to buy a multimillion dollar gunship that someone else somehow sold him, can afford to keep it in repair and supplied, and nobody ever checks his certificates to be allowed to buy all that shit. Pull the other one. Fake news.

>>54773801
He often can't, and he's a merc...plus seriously fighting in war torn 3rd world nations one's where it's easier to buy an RPG than bottle of water?
I don't know why you are getting so offended by something that is just flat out true, dude does what he wants and is good at.
Are you seriously this mad I pointed out a very rare case that disagreed?
There's a shit ton of proof this is real and he's been doing it since before either of us were born and still at it. I think he'd be debunked if that was the case.

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What's your favorite Com Guard or Word of Blake Militia division?

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>>54773721
Fuck that. Why would I sell a machine for a few million Cbills when instead I could kill stuff for a real house, get a fat landhold on some rock that produces enough for my extended family to be landed gentry, and have a real mechwarrior lineage?

>ywn have an estate with two hundred of your closest cousins, who are your maids, bodyguards, techs, security force and replacement pilots
>all supported by the free stuff your lord gave your great granddad back in 2880 for his service in the piece of shit Shadowhawk your great great grandad stole from his SLDF unit when he deserted the TH in the First Succession War
>don't have to pay maintenance or repair on your machine
>the forty thousand Cbills you get every year as a pilot are just a stipend to live comfortably as an officer
>send most of it home anyway because of all the mechwarrior perks and Brotherhood freebies
>your greatest goal as a mechwarrior is to kill a decent enemy mech and secure it as salvage to restore and guarantee your title in the case that you lose old Sharpshooter in battle

God damn I miss Mechwarrior Knights.

>>54772672
>>54772638
>>54772577

Yes. Rear facing RL10 to tell any cheeky little bugs to fuck off.

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p10 bump, and fuck you, maybe should care about the game

>>54773099

>Is it really so bad?

Yes.

From one standpoint, you've got units that were involved in the War of 3039 or pilots who were trained on the details at military academies going ZOMG at the new tech rolling into their units or being used by the Clans. Even Hanse Davion, retconned to being the guy who ordered experimental tech be used, is completely baffled by LosTech in the BoK trilogy.

Then there's the Schrodinger's Retcon about that advanced tech, where they had to have everyone decide at the end of the War of 3039 that all the experimental gear had to be retired and not fielded again for another ten years to account for it not being used in the novels.

Then they said fuck it and have retconned in fully developed tech being widely available as field refit kits and in use at times before the War of 3039 (and certainly the Clan Invasion) which fucks the 3039 stuff up even harder.

The Clan Invasion barely makes sense when the IS was supposed to be fielding 100% intro tech at the start. It makes none when apparently everyone is rolling in field upgrades before then, and also fucks with the Field Manual upgrade rates and need for FWL imports.

>>54773178

"If only you'd died at the age of 10 like I wanted, I wouldn't be dealing with your bullshit now!"

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>>54777236
I care about the game. Hell I play it every chance I get. I prefer playing in meatspace to MegaMek though, truth be told.

>>54778129

I get it. I just find MM easier to play as the scene is dead here and iv no motivation to do free work for cgl. Plus i can do a trinary battle in same time as most tt games of lance on lance.

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>TPTB finally make a Lyran unit that is skilled, competent and relentless
>kill them off screen permanently

why

>>54777272
Practically all that tech existed at the time of the Star League, I think it's just as silly to assume that nobody knew about it pre-retcon. But that being said, the fluff has always reflected its origins in an abstracted wargame in an almost cartoonish fashion. Like you said, so much stuff already barely makes sense, the tech retcon just always seemed like a small drop in a large bucket to me. Getting irrationally upset over one aspect of it over all the others doesn't make much sense to me.

>>54780194
>it's just as silly to assume that nobody knew about it pre-retcon

Most of it was basically known as "Star League just plain did shit better." There's no such thing as a differentiation between a regular autocannon and an ultra in universe. It's just "this one here doesn't explode when you put it on rapid fire and hold down the trigger too long. The fuse on the firing circuit just blows"

"This advanced type of focus crystal and power supply lets us fire our laser much faster, improving long range accuracy at the cost of dumping a lot of extra heat into the system"

And so on. Better cooling, better rates of fire, better ranges, better ammunition flexibility, better ammunition itself, smarter weapons, lighter better armor. Star League did it all better. The only distinctly different kinds of weapons would be like the Gauss Rifle. And somebody seeing one of those fire for the first time in almost two hundred years probably has a much different reaction than seeing some worn out old 1st Succession War battlerom when all they know firsthand is autocannon.

What's the best Great House to play in the 3050s?

Anyone remember OCTARINE BURD STRONK?

>>54782354
You mean the one with the best shit? Fedcom. It's two houses taped together until 3056. And then you can pick the half after that you like best. Either of them still gets better stuff than the rest in that time.

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>>54782369
Yes, yes I do.

Thoughts on the bushwacker? Just started using the S2r, and I have to say it's pretty good. Can move 5 and fire everything without worrying about heat, have AMS protection and a plasma rifle to scare away anyone trying alpha on me.

>>54764632
Endo-steel takes zero g production facilities to make, ferrofibrous doesn't. That said, ferrofibrous will have to be replaced more often, since you have to burn through armor to hit internal structure.

>>54784018

That's a bullshit fluff reason that doesn't mean anything. Game mechanics are the only factor which matter, and by pure math, Endo is objectively better in every way than ferro.

Which, if any, of the Successor States had the greatest claim to the throne of the Star League?

>>54784160
None. The Camerons were fucking dead. The only right to the throne after that was the right of conquest, and the Fedcom got the closest there. Nobody was ever really going to win as long as Comstar was a major player though.

>>54784160
The Davions had blood ties to the Camerons so the had a legit claim. All the others were just pretenders.

>>54784689

Aside from Terra being an ancestral Capellan world, you mean. If anyone has a claim on it, it's we Chinese through sheer number and 4000 unbroken years of civilization and achievement

>>54784728
>4,000
I think you mean 6,000, you gweilo shitlord.

>>54784818

No one gives a fuck. Advancement before the 1400s doesn't fucking matter anyway. Go be yellow somewhere else.

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>>54784728
>it's a Xin Sheng episode

Remember when the best Capellan units were just random dudes of all kinds and only the royal guard and the Liao family were 100% han? And when the Northwind Highlanders had their own detachment of professional strippers?

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>>54785117

Only good part of the CC

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>>54785595
You know I likde that design and I was kinda dissapointed when they went with picture related, making mechs look too much was like the Unseen was asking for trouble from HG.

>>54786238
We need someone with a heart for BT that will sue HG into non existence. I'm tired of their terrorist lawsuit tactics.

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>>54785117
It's a bad pain, anon. It's a bad pain that only real Cappie fans feel.

There's just something slightly off about the >>54785595 design. Can't quite put my finger on it. The components are all good but something about the whole doesn't work.

>>54786238
I'd swear that design was the one in the old MekPak for MW4:Mercs

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>>54786565
It's really a shame that the Caps became the Chinese Dracs. But there's still time for things to change. Many worlds have fallen in the DA, worlds they'll need to incorporate in the old way.

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>>54787115
All the factions could stand to be run/characterized better. Cappies were better when they were "Han Chinese Socialists and their assorted diverse colonies which are important because the Han actually have no real army so their army is as divers as colonial Britain's was", and an underdog. Davions would be better as "Wild West Australian Outback America: The Freedoming but really more of an Oligarchy", Marik as "Confederation of States that Loathe Each Other but Somehow Work Together Because Otherwise Even The Cappies Would Eat At Least One of Them", Steiners as "Old Money Not-Holy Roman Empire: european Nobility Boogaloo", and the Dracs as "1938 Imperialist Japanese Government Forces a Bunch of Other Cultures and Nationalites to Play Along with Their Cosplay-Fueled Colonization Efforts". Some of those things are still true, but others are not. I don't know if it's possible to re-capture the charm of the pre-Jihad/Xin Shit fluff, and to simultaneously refine the bad parts of that fluff, but dammit it needs to happen.

.t salty grog

>>54786625
>Can't quite put my finger on it. The components are all good but something about the whole doesn't wo

Dorsal gun. It simply looks wrong being blended into the torso instead of above it. NEA has the Warhansa Marauder (which has a similar problem) and he put the dorsal gun up on a mount like the Unseen version, and it fixes the issue immediately. I've got the pic around somewhere, but I can't find it right now.

>>54787838
If you read the DA material, the Davions are 100% back on the road of several lesser houses held on a leash by the economic and military power of the Crucis March. Well, they're more in disarray after 3145 with losing both their actual major march capitals, and putting the Hasek's in exile while all the Sandovals are dead but the black sheep sent to the Republic who is now acting regent of the whole damn Suns until Julian can get his ass home.

The Mariks are back on the confederation of loathing in the DA, especially once you hit about 3150 after the Regulan War. The main thing holding everything back is Humphrey's marrying the Magistrix to make war against him become a declaration of war against the MoC and the Capellans. Smart move on the old man's part to stop him losing the Andurien War, but no way forward on fully reuniting the League.

Dracs don't know what the fuck they're doing as they've basically devolved into the warring states era with Yori trying to overcome her figurehead position and become a real Coordinator. They're just stumbling along with some lucky happenstance and some Dragoon support and luck. It's sickening really. You want to see the old boys actually being competant and clever instead of what's actually happening.

Capellans are probably in the worst boat as they're just Xin Shenging harder and laughing all the way to Tikonov. They're only hope for change is how they consolodate their gains.

Hard to tell what's going on with the Steiners. They're raped so hard, that the only major things keeping them afloat are sections of the Commonwealth that have pretty much never been given attention outside the Reunification War.

>>54787983
There's two Warhansa MADs; the Matador and the Matador X. The prior has a dorsal gun mounted on a pivot like we're used to, though it's off-center. The Matador X is the MWO version straight from the game, so it has a side-torso gun that isn't pintle-mounted.

>>54788061
Yeah I mentioned that some factions were already riding the train I was proposing, or at least well enough to matter anyway. I'm thankfully not 100% fluff retarded even though I haven't read that much post-Jihad stuff. Just because my preferred era of play is grog territory doesn't mean I don't at least try to keep abreast of the modern fluff. Because when they do things right it makes me happy, so I like to keep somewhat updated. I don't read terribly deeply into it but I never really have because to me, the game is about giant robutts destroying each other with a veneer of fluff about factions to give the game some sense of grounding and the ability to make politics happen to justify all the conflict. The nitty-gritty stuff isn't that important to me, say what you will about that. I'm a dirty casual, I'll admit it.

>>54788121
I love grog era stuff, but I'm a down a dirty fluff hound. When I see world and city names in a novel or other callbacks I'm 100% "I got that. I got that reference." like a little kid.

Half the fun I have in this thread is sharing random stuff most people don't know in certain material when I run across it.

>>54788203
Kudos to you man. We need cats like that, honestly. Filled-out fluff is never a bad thing, really. I mean we can bellyache about the direction and nuance, but ultimately, the game would be worse without it. When someone plays a computer game for example, it's not often that they give consideration to the coding. They just care about what's in front of their face, being fed to them. Same thing with game fluff. You have to look at it like code; something that when completed gives you a product you can interact with, but not many people that do will be interested in what makes said product tick, at its core. But we do need some people to keep said product honest and streamlined, and for that I respect all the fluffbros for keeping us drooling ingrates informed.

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>>54787983
>>54788063

I'm hugely hesitant to post this because of the pinup on the MAD; it wasn't part of my plan to put it on there and I'm irritated that I had to put the decal *somewhere* or lose it (don't store water near decals, kids), but this is the only good pic set of that Marauder I have and I won't be in a position to take more pics until the filming wraps on Sunday night.

So, yeah. Here. Moving the dorsal mount from the side torso to the center torso makes the Warhansa Marauder/Matador look approximally eleventy million times better. IMO it's the same thing for Shimmy's Marauder; the torso gun being embedded in the side torso and not exposed on a centerline mount means that it doesn't get that hugely distinctive Marauder silhouette. There's plenty of digitgrade, low-slung Mechs out there with crab-style arms (like the Crab, actually), but nothing else I can recall offhand has the offset dorsal gun, and that makes the Marauder silhouette unique.

>Numenorean Rangers are the merc unit Cincy's currently running; the MAD pilot (me) steps down as CO after this contract so I can offload a bunch of work, though I'll stay GM. Evidently there's a planet called Numenor in the FedSuns, and since most of my players felt particularly munchkin, 75% made Suns PCs for the campaign and made that THEIR HOME PLANET.

>>54788692

That's an aweseom pin-up tho. Where did you even find full nude decals? I've never seen or heard of a gaming company that would dare make them.

>that's a gorgeous marauder, btw. Good job.

>>54788692
Not the hugest fan of the Matador; the torso is too long and the pintle-mounted AC looks too thin, but the legs, arms, and front half of the torso are all great. I agree the pinup isn't the best but only because it's too big; I certainly can't criticize it being on the 'Mechs since I make pinup wallpapers myself. If it were half the size it'd look way better. Was it meant to go on a WW2 1:72 model or something? I dig the paint job as well. I should get a basecoat on some minis and paint them up. I have a hard time settling on what to paint in what scheme though; always changing my mind and stripping them down again.

>>54785117
Even they weren't 100% Han

The Liao especially never were

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bloop

>>54788892
>>54788930

Inherited a ton of military model-making supplies from the passed-away father of a friend. Got about 75 decal sheets, and a half-dozen-ish decal sheets filled with various pinups were in the collection. They're from StarshipModeler.com, which IIRC is still in business.

I managed to spill paint water into part of my decal box and had to slap a large number of decals on whatever models I had lying about or lose the decals. I had planned to put a pinup of *some* sort up there, but certainly nothing full-on nude, and none of the wet decals fit there except that one. Blah.

>>54789029
Just paint a little on top of it if you're good enough. I turned a nude gal straddling a bar stool into a cowgirl riding a bomb before. A tiny bit of shading and a micro pen to ink the lines goes a long way.

>>54787838
The Marik provinces aren't really ever that way until the DA plot line required the Jihad to make them all stupid. They didn't loathe each other, they engaged in politics since they were the only non-authoritarian state. The only real ones with perpetual loathing were Andurien (and only really because of the cult of personality the power hungry Humphreys manipulation) and the post-Star League Terran corridor provinces that were angry the Hegemony died. Other provinces went through periods of some anger, fanatical loyalty, etc. Regulus, for example, waxed and waned. For centuries the Regulan Hussars were fanatically loyal to House Marik. Members of House Cameron-Jones were also loyal to House Marik. There was a larger divide of loyalty to the Free Worlds as a whole compared to House Marik in particular as opposed to inter-provincial loathing.
And their big enemy wasn't the Capellans. Liao was the League's whipping boy every war. The Lyrans are the hated ones. Give an inch on that border and the smug blue-bloods will take a mile, so to speak.

Other than that pretty spot on.

>>54769276
Changing the number of construction lines for mechs so that losing a single factory doesn't mean the whole goddamned line is lost forever.

>>54788930
>and the pintle-mounted AC looks too thin
I wonder if the dorsal gun from a RRT Galug would be a good substitute

>>54788692
Yo NEA, you have any variants for Vincent mk 39 corvettes that turns them into Q-ships or auxiliary cruisers or something?

I had some on my computer but I lost all my data.

>>54788979
What's a Nova CEWS? Otherwise that's a slow jump capable Blitzkrieg.

>>54789307
its a watchdog CEWS with a C3i added.

>whats a watchdog
an active probe/ECM combo computer.

>>54789369
Nice. With the C3i, does it act like the old Combine C3 computers where another mech on the network closer to a target sends targeting information to the others to make hitting easier?

>>54789436
yup. C3i is like C3 but all units are both master and slave. the only problem is that nova and regular C3i can't sync with each other, just with themselves.

>>54784018

This is why I would argue ES is actually more economical in character. Not only will it need to be replaced less often, you'll get 1-5 more tons that can be spent on armour to protect it better or guns to blow the enemy up before they can hurt you.

>>54784160

Davions claim their First Prince at the time of the first SL's fall had been the confirmed heir of the last Cameron. FedCom also made the best go of militarily dominating the IS.

>>54789436

Nova can connect to two other units on the fly, so you don't have to worry about setting up a specific network structure and if someone dies or loses their Nova, you can just glom onto something else.

Working in threes is a bit awkward but you can still run five networks in a Trinary on 'Mechs.

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Here we go...

>>54789866
Endo is only more economical from a short-term numbers perspective. Ferro is easily shaped and made without any super-special facilities, so even getting replacements and making repairs isn't hard. It would also have been an incredibly moronic move to make it not so since replacing armor is one of the most common, if not *the* most common, job of techs and astechs.

Endo requires special facilities to manufacture it, and because of that it likely has inherent difficulties in repairing it. Also that means a smaller supply chain, so it would be more difficult in obtaining spares/replacements.

>>54790138

>It would also have been an incredibly moronic move to make it not so since replacing armor is one of the most common, if not *the* most common, job of techs and astechs.

Well, guess what.

>Ferro is easily shaped and made without any super-special facilities

This is not what the fluff says. It literally took the Taurians almost four decades to be able to build it, after all. Sure the Houses shat it out but it still requires advanced factories and access to diamond weaves that make up the "fibrous" part of the name. Shaping it is also a pain in the ass compared to normal slab armour.

Endo is no harder to repair than standard IS. And as you note, repairing armour is done on a regular basis, chewing through stockpiles of the stuff fast. Armour damage is basically a given in any combat, but IC they're meant to start retreating when internals get damaged rather than fight to the last like we often do on the tabletop, so IS damage should be minimised if not not-existent compared to armour damage.

>they're meant to start retreating when internals get damaged

The problem is, it's actually REALLY TOUGH to disengage in BT. Rear Armor is so lacking on most mechs that turning tail and running is unlikely to be survivable. Backing away is unlikely to disengage you successfully. You need something to force a foe to disengage, or a foe inclined to let you go.

>>54790403
>rather than fight to the last like we often do on the tabletop,

Sounds like someone doesn't have to pay for their own repairs and replacements out of the mission profits.

Nobody who does the logistical end of managing a merc company for an actual campaign is willing to let their mechs stay in combat if they have internal structure hanging out, especially if it is a mech that contains any amount of explodium.

>>54791714

Drop smoke and have other mechs move in to body block the line of retreat. Also, don't overcommit lone mechs so you get yourself into a situation you can't retreat from.

Sometimes bad shit happens and you lose a mech, but if you play smart, you should be able to keep most of your force intact, even in a battle that you might be losing.

>>54791714

In the boardgame, yes.

In the fluff they fall back when things start getting hairy, especially in the 3rd and 4th SW era.

>>54791737

Most games, especially in pick-up settings or tournaments, don't have forced retreat or IC retreating. Units stand and fight to the death.

As far as paying for repairs goes, I'm well aware of how that works, having played a lot of AccountTech campaigns over the years. Endo winds up saving you money in the long run since you replace it much less often than Ferro even if the start-up costs to a faction are higher.

The only reason to use Ferro is if you're limited in refit stations. Otherwise, the smart choice is refitting to Endo.

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>>54791807

Oh no, I totally agree with Endo over FF when building a mech from scratch, it is just that when you're refitting an existing mech, it just requires a factory level refit from what I remember, so it can be hard to get the maint checks done well enough to get your mechs up to a high enough quality to be able to do the factory level refit required to replace the internal structure with endosteel, and the refit itself takes a long ass time.

It is worth it, it just isn't something you can do on the drop of a hat.

>>54791714
>it's actually REALLY TOUGH to disengage in BT.

Stop closing to medium and short range. Withdrawing isn't hard if you're staying at 14+ hexes. Only close in if you have the clear advantage.

>>54791920
Just me or that wrench look very real.

>>54792000
Everyone points that out. I'm sure it's a real wrench that was meant as a base to trace over to speed things up, but the artist was either under the gun and had to rush, or forgot and just left it there, and at first enough people failed to notice that now it's whatever.

>>54791996
sounds like someone has never fought the clans before.

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>>54792136

He's clearly talking about the Succession Wars method of combat, where Mechs approached the battlefield, fired off salvos at long range, and whoever got the worst of it withdrew and was allowed to withdraw. Closing to ranges where combat was truly decisive was extremely rare.

Read the 2e boxed set rulebook sometime.

By the time the Clans rolled around, that's a whole different story, and again it was clearly not what was being talked about. I know context clues are difficult for autists to pick up upon, but you can at least try, OK. And no, there is no possible way to withdraw against an opponent who decisively outspeeds and outranges you. Attempting to withdraw against the Clans as the IS is straight-up suicide.

>Not having a rear mounted RL 20 on your CT
>Not screaming "Via, con carne!" as you shit explosive diarrhea all over infantry

>>54792380
You bastard, I just spit food all over my computer.

>>54792455
Not using it with jump jets while pumping your mechs fist up in the air and screaming "superhombre"!

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>>54792537
>>54792380
>>54792455

I'm not apologizing for this. Also, Infernos.

>>54792027
It is a real wrench, a pipe wrench to be precise.

https://cisupplystore.com/index.php/power-hand-tools/wrenches/pipe-wrenches/2015-06-18-05-26-031395562204-detail

>>54786625
Arms mounted so far backward that the muzzles don't clear the snout maybe?

>>54794786
I uh, I know what a pipe wrench is, anon. Sorry to break it to you. Did you happen to read my whole post, or... ?

>>54794527
I'm using this

>>54794964
Just wanted to confirm what you said as it has come up in MWO thread and pople have talked about being a real wrench, mostly the size seems to make people think it might not be . For the pipe wrech part is just me being pedantic about it.

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Also here are the other two art pieces.

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I like this one the most, all three are nice pieces, but I like the Freelancer the most, mostly the mood of it.

I tried to use MML for warships since they seem to be in the cache, but the thing says it's unsupported.

Anyway to get it to work for warships?

>>54791920
I really dig the look of that armor on the two troopers with the suit. What would that be IC, do you all think? I want to know if I ever play an appropriate era AToW game.

>>54797686

You need to open an existing WS file in NotePad and edit it, then add it back into the MegaMek cache to use it.

If you mean designing a WS, no programs let you do that right now. You need to do it by hand or make a spreadsheet.

>>54797897
I didn't find a single exoskeleton or PAL suit matching that drawing. I guess when you want to put it into rules, it would be a Tornado or Nighthawk without jump jets.

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>>54798253
Could just be fancy infantry kit.

>>54799469
Ditty, minus what appear to be fancy enhanced optics on the helmet, that's more or less what I assume full ballistic plate would look like.

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What have I done


The record sheet says it's jump 6, this is a lie, 5 Jump Jets +2 from Partial wing, in MegaMek it functions as so, as long as the atmosphere / gravity is normal

Since the improved jump jets don't push it higher than 3 heat, it stays heat neutral as long as you dial down the MPLs from 7d4h,7d4h,7d4h,7d4h to 4d1h,4d1h,5d2h,5d2h, and as long as the LAMS doesn't go off

>>54799469
Guess that's what it'll be, though I find those heavy armor plates a tad unbelievable. On the other hand, it's BattleTech. Then again, the Bounty Hunter apparently wore PAL from his emergence in the 2900s on, so it's not impossible that a suitably rich individual or institution could scratch-build something like that, or convert civilian exoskeletons to primitove BA.

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>>54800094
>On the other hand, it's BattleTech.
That's the main thing. I mean, these guys are CI too. I think the main idea would in AToW terms make it tough but still just personal armor rather than tactical armor like BA.

>>54800539
Why does that look like Baxter Stockton from the old TMNT? He looks like a psychotic erkle

>>54800539
>bloodcovered axe
>crazy eyes
dididothat.jpg

>>54800539
Ya gots to have one o my jello pudding pops..

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>>54800094
The Bounty Hunter wore a Star League Era Nighthawk. It wasn't custom built..

>>54798060
>You need to open an existing WS file in NotePad and edit it, then add it back into the MegaMek cache to use it.
How would I do that exactly? New to using MML.

>>54800771
Huh. Can you point me towards the source for that?

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>>54800842
Literally every official representation of him has been in a Nighthawk, even the 25mm IWM figure. The really old material just calls it "The Armor" but we see Vic Travers in official art by the 3050's in the same suit as he had in 34 and it's the Nighthawk. Seems like a typical 3rd War botch job in the case of some things working and some things not. It seems to have lost a lot of its stealth tech but has been modified to plug into a mech so you can pilot while wearing it.

>>54760730
So, just starting to figure out this game and I had a question about rocket launchers.
first off are they any good? it seems like a cheap way to put some alpha punch on a light mech.

Also, and this applies more broadly, what is the point of rocket/15s and /20s? 2 /10s weigh less, have a longer range, uses less crits, and cost less then a /20. the only advantage /20 has is 1 less heat. The more general implication for several weapons, were it seems like taking more weapons seems better then a single bigger weapon.

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>>54800842
ISP1, page 135, in the rules section states "Many have speculated about the source of the Bounty Hunter’s armor, but most agree it is some sort of Star League-era prototype powered armor." Stat wise it's similar to the Nighthawk but with 3 ground MP but lacking bulit in equipment otherwise. It also states that the jump and stealth functions don't work prior to 3034.

Visually, it looks very similar to but not the same as a Nighthawk. So possibly either a prototype Nighthawk or maybe a Nighthawk successor.

>>54801157
I've got the Jihad era Bounty Hunter lance pack and it straight calls it a Nighthawk in there. There's like three or four NIghthawk variants

>>54800774
Go to data/mechfiles and look inside the zip files for existing units. Make a copy of a unit and start editing the copy. Save, and then open MML. In MML, go to the validate pulldown, and open the new unit file. It will check to see if your new unit is 'valid', but keep in mind the validator isn't perfect.

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It is unspeakably filthy to swap out a devastators XL engine for endosteel, and replace the PPCs with ER large lasers? I like the idea of making it more durable, but a lot of people already seem to hate the damn thing.

>>54800539
Yeah, but those are really straddling the border as they're basically outer space guerillia gear.

>>54800771
>>54801048
>>54801157
>>54801368
Whelp, now I feel like an idiot for missing/forgetting. Thanks for the refresher.

>>54802891
>It is unspeakably filthy to swap out a devastators XL engine for endosteel

This is a huge refit, and not something that anyone in-universe would undertake lightly. It's equivalent to building a new Mech (not designing, just building) from scratch. An endo-steel refit is the LAST sort of refit you'd want to try and justify as "not power gaming". You're better off taking a totally different 100 ton Mech with ES and a SFE, ripping all the equipment off, and installing your desired loadout on that one.

>>54802891

WTF

>>54802992
Any particular recommendations? I don't have that much experience with the game.

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>>54803045
It's from Redline. I highly recommend you watch it. That is one very minor part of the movie, and those are side characters, rather than the main ones. I just thought it was a funny way to represent the torso cockpit.

>>54803048

Drop the PPCs to LLs (not ERs), lose 3 double heat sinks, 2 medium lasers (head and CT[r]), and 0.5 tons of armor from the legs (you want to be stationary in partial cover most of the time anyway), and you'll make up 9.5 tons of free space. Use those to swap the XLFE to an SFE.

That's about all you can do. I'm unsure about the critical space situation with this plan, but you MIGHT free up enough room to mount Light Ferro-fibrous armor and make up the loss in armor tonnage.

>>54801075
>what is the point of rocket/15s and /20s?

To understand this, you have to understand the construction rules. Mechs don't care about numbers of weapons, just the critical space they take up. No so with tanks and aeros.

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>>54803152
Something like this, perhaps?

>>54803408

If you're going to go with ER lasers, drop a ton of armor and get another DHS on there. The reason I recommended standard lasers is the heat burden; with 2 GRs, 2 LLs, and 11 DHS, you're easily heat-neutral (20 heat total when running) even with movement.

With ERLLs, you're looking at a total of 28 heat on the run, sinking 24. That puts you into having to drop a weapon every few turns to cool off (4 - 4 - 3 or 4 - 3 - 4 - 3 depending on your preferences). If you insist on the ERs, by dropping the armor and adding a 13th DHS, you're heat-neutral when you're stationary and firing all your primary weapons (26 heat on 13 DHS).

>also, your engine rating on that pic is horribly wrong. That should be a 300-rated engine and 19.0 tons.

Basically, if you want to do a refit, it should be a C or D refit. D lets you change armor, weapon and equipment loadouts, C means you have to swap out a weapon for one of the same type, (energy, missile or ballistic) or remove weapons only.

E and F require a factory and are not really feasible save for one or two custom units. These include things like engine changes, internal structure and gyros.

>>54803555
>These include things like engine changes

But...the entirety of TRO 3050 talks about doing SFE to XL engine refits in the field. The whole point of the "field refit kit" is to pack all the parts in a flat-crate with specific instructions how to install them without needing anything more than a field gantry. What the hell?

>>54803492
I was using a design program, so I don't know how it ended up that far off. I could always cheese it with a single ERLL and one regular. I had the space for TSM, so I decided WHY NOT.

>>54803720
Welcome to CGL, where suddenly the same weight and rating engines can no longer go to chassis that aren't the same tonnage.

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>>54803555
>>54803720

It's an anti-munchking measure taken on behalf of Catalyst to try and have some rules designed to reign in excessive customizations in campaigns. Really, that's why. It was intended to give GMs more ability to keep players from just ripping Mechs apart and rebuilding them into the most optimal designs as quickly as possible. Which is actually a reasonable goal, except for a CFIFC.

In this particular example of a Catalyst Failure In Fact-Checking, they never bothered to address the issue of all the TRO3050 refit kits, nor retcon them in any way, nor provide an exemption for them in the rules. How we reconciled it locally is described in pic related. Refits and Refit KITS are specific and different things. If you're playing by strict Strategic Operations, then the Refit Kits of TRO3050 break the rules and are impossible, thus the numbers of Mechs available to face the Clans using TRO3050 designs must necessarily be orders of magnitude smaller than they were historically (since people can't take the time to send Mechs 100s of light-years away to factories to be refitted), thus necessarily changing the events of the Clan Invasion.

Basically, Catalyst cannot into fact-checking, and that is never going to change.

>>54803852
Question, can your refit kit rolls add negative quirks, or no?

>>54803199
But the /10s take up less critical slots relative to shots then the /20s.

Thinking about running a campaign where the pcs are BA users against infantry and other BA. Would AToW work for that? Or should I be looking at other systems?

>>54804054
Only on mechs. Like I said, tanks and shit don't work the same way. They get weapon slots and don't use crits.

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>>54803904

They can, as described in the last line. Negative on a 2, Positive on a 12. GM's decision on what it is, specifically (this ruleset is intended for a GM-adjucated campaign). Players can instead ask for the acquired quirk to offset an existing quirk (so if you rolled a 12 on a Wyvern refit, you might be able to use the acquired positive Quirk on getting rid of the ammo feed issue to the LRM).

It's probably just easier to hand you the whole ruleset. Here. Note that the XP values are currently set too high for the amount of XP being gained (only playing 1 game/month will do that), so something needs adjusting in there. Haven't decided what yet; the v3 ruleset will come out at the end of the current contract, which likely won't be until ~December of this year.

>>54803720
>.the entirety of TRO 3050 talks about doing SFE to XL engine refits in the field.
Not exactly. The 3055 Merc Handbook talks about refit kits to transform old models into TR:3050 models, but TR:3050 itself only ever talks about pure weapon swaps (plus one instance of CASE which ComStar interprets as a sign of factory work).

Would RATs not divided by weight, just fluff rarity be a good idea?

>>54805316
Functionally, most people use them by weight class. "I need two drac mediums, four lights and an assault."

Xotls RAT's showing both a weighted table with each section based on rarity and a separate factional weight distribution table combined together make a full selection based on fluff rarity. Best system there is for it I think.

I really wish he would be able to get into later eras.

Dark Age in particular is going to be a massive clusterfuck with less mechs then than even in the 3rd Succession War but with the variety almost two orders of magnitude higher.

I'm trying to settle an argument with a friend.

True or False: In the 3025 era, the Davion Light Guard are the single best light mech regiment in the Inner Sphere?

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>>54806647
Clearly

I have no idea i just like to stir the pot

>>54806647
I don't even know what the other options are honestly. The Bog are the only guys I really recall having whole regiments strictly segregated by weight.

Like there's other regiments called Light Guards, Light Cavalry, Light Horse and shit in the sphere but they are more geared around speed and have plenty of fast mediums in them. You don't see them kicking Cicadas or Assassins to the curb like the Fedrats.

>>54800073

Check the rules in TacOps, anon. Heavies and Assaults only get +1 Jump in Standard atmosphere. Chart is on p. 295.

>>54804940

The rules in the Merc book are for the field refit kits mentioned there and in the novels at the time, like Galen Cox's Crusader upgrade which has an XL Engine. Even what they did to Yen-lo-wang was described as taking place in a normal repair facility but would require tearing it down in a factory now to accomplish. CGL literally just decided to make it really, really hard to modify 'Mechs without thinking through the consequences elsewhere.

>>54806647

True. I don't know of an other all-light regiments off the top of my head, but even if any others exist they aren't going to be Elites with a horde bonus.

>>54803852
>It's an anti-munchking measure taken on behalf of Catalyst to try and have some rules designed to reign in excessive customizations in campaigns.

Isn't that the GM's job, not the game company's?

>>54808430
By that logic, what rules AREN'T the GM's job? Where do you arbitrarily draw the line and why the fuck should anybody else care where you draw it?

>>54806647
False.

They're the ones with the most cocks up their own arse, though.

>>54808589

The only reason people care here is because it arbitrarily fucks with existing stuff and CGL is too far up their own ass to admit the change is unnecessary. As indicated, if customisation is a problem for a group the group should work it out for themselves rather than have almost two decades of fluff fucked into the ground.

If it didn't screw with existing lore nobody would even blink.

>>54808589
You know what? I'm the asshole here. I was just skimming before and realized we're not even talking about the same engine retcon I thought we were.

I thought this was about their retarded "you can't take a 300 SFE from a tank and put it into a mech" retcon

I need Dragon refits that don't suck.

At least one for 3025, please. Others for the 3050s, 3060s and beyond are fine.

>>54810698
>DRG-1G sucks

Dishonorabbbre

>>54810698
They are a canon mech, they are called grand dragons.

>>54810698
The 3025 grand dragon is actually really solid, though.
But if you want something different, trade the AC for a PPC, replace the LRM-10 with a SRM-6 and replace the arm ML with a LL, for an odd grab-bag brawler

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Honestly, ripping the AC out, putting a hatchet/sword in it pull the rear mlaser or swap forward. tons of fun.
I had the specs but my dumbass lost them :(
Here's a pic someone chopped for me of it in action. (has LCAF crest as fluff was Lyrans captured so many and wanted a fresh mech)

>>54807231
>Even what they did to Yen-lo-wang was described as taking place in a normal repair facility but would require tearing it down in a factory now to accomplish.
I don't think I agree with you 100% on the other points, but I do agree with you 100% on this one, and this one trumps all the others.

>>54810698
Grand Dragon the 1C. Yank the AC/2 for LL, replace LRMs with SRMs, flavor with heat sinks and additional medium lasers to taste. Arguably a bit redundant with the Drac Wolverine, but it will have even more armor.

>>54803852
Hey NEA, I like what I'm seeing there, any chance we could get a copy of your campaign rules?

>>54812459

Keep reading the thread.

>>54806647
I would say one or two of the Arkab Legion regiments might give Davion Light Guard a run for it's money.

>>54811392
I just like the Quickdraw in this one, "oh shit that's not good."

>Putting a hatchet/sword in it
Dracs actually started using a sword carrying Hatchetman later era as they saw the axe as barbaric weapon that only Lyrans/Davions would wield.

When is the alpha strike starter box out? I want me some plastic clan mechs.

>>54812895

Arkabs have mediums. They aren't lights only, final destination. Same with the Amphigean.

DLG are only lights.

>>54760972
>Devastator
XL Engines are also garbage, I'd much rather have a Atlas AS7-S3 you lose a Gauss for and LRM-15 and a LFE.

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>>54810698
You want Gauss or no? Have upgraded Dragons.

>>54811392
Look at that poor bastard under the enforcer. Is that a bolt action rifle?

>>54813775
Shape reminds me of a BAR sans bipod and with a shorter magazine. Could be a bolt action, something semi like an SKS, or a laser rifle.

>>54770183
The Russians didn't realize the advantages in computers the west had until it was way to late. Their aircraft disigners probubly looked at the geometries required for a first generation stealth aircraft like the F-117 and thought "That will never fly"

>>54772360
Particularly the 3025 incarnation when the Rifleman pilot was selling servos off his mech' for cocaine and their only suport vehicle was a Jeep with a broken drive shaft.

>>54813635
Maybe it's because I'm really tired, but what is the difference between the upper right and lower left one? What are my tired eyes missing?

>>54814773
Lower left has ERMLs as oppossed to upper rights standard MLs, and yanks a point of armor of each leg and puts them on the arms.

>>54814819
How freaking tired am I that I missed that? Thx bud.

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>>54814773
Like >>54814819 said. I grabbed the wrong Dragon initially, and only noticed that one when you asked. Have the one that was going to be in place of the -7R.

>>54814922
LAW licensing production to Ceres Metals now? Could name it "Long" for good measure.

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Just put primer to a company of Cappie 'Mechs a few hours ago. Basecoated a drab dark Forest Green and will be painting them with black and gold accents, and black-green ink for washing/low spots. Meant to just be generic, pretty much. Feels good to have a project though. If I like how they end up I may splurge and get some decals to apply to them, since I can't hand-paint numbers or logos very well.

Anyone else got any projects they're looking forward to working on? Next step with them is replacing the old Vindicator minis with MWO ones from Warhansa, as well as getting another MWO Raven and one or two MWO Cataphracts. I may get something else from there too, but I'm not sure.

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am snek, no step pls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFpzp10Qr4o

>>54816801
Son, I am dissapointed. No Vibroblade or any melee weapon for Snake?

>>54817062
I am sorry, dad. I couldn't squeeze the tonnage in.

In fact, it would be proper to give it two hands, and AES on all limbs, because... cqc.

>>54816801
>>54817062
I made an alteration of the Snake for my best friend, who isn't into BT or mecha, but likes snakes. It was a short ranges bastard with 4 MPLs and a mace for a physical weapon. It's not super powerful, but the thing just won't go down. Over 25 battles and it's still hanging in there.

>>54812668
Ah fug, am blind, scrolled right past it somehow, thanks anon

>>54818436

No problem. They're extremely good campaign rules, actually. We're in the middle of a Warchest game, or I'd push my group to adopt them.

>>54769255
It is proper to praise him!

>>54813613
>DLG are only lights.
And fast mediums.

>>54819683
Not him but 3025 DLG are lights only, final destination.

>>54760730
So I have just started playing battle tech, and am playing against the bot. 3042 era, following all the instructions in the PDF. It is going... okish. I am on my first contract, and after 2 engagements I have only lost one light mech.
initial mech lineup:
Banshee BNC-3E assault #1 Alpha Lance
Longbow LGB-0W Assault #2 Alpha Lance
Warhammer WHM-6R Heavy #1 Alpha Lance
Grasshopper GHR-5H Heavy #2 Alpha Lance
Griffin GRF-1N Medium #1 Beta Lance
Clint CLNT-2-3T M#2 Theta Lance
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 M#3 Beta Lance
Griffin GRF-1S #4 Beta Lance
Griffin GRF-1N #5 Beta Lance
Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 M#6 Theta Lance
Wasp WSP-1A Light #1 Theta Lance Lost in second engagement.
Javelin JVN-10N Light #2 Theta Lance

First engagment was beta lance by itself advancing through a heavy urban map against tons of tanks. Largely FUBAR because I was trying to use jump jets in a city. After 2 meks went through ceilings I stopped hopping onto buildings. In the end I got them all out but the hawk was in the shop for a while.

Second engagement was a narrow long map protecting civilians. Beta lance was still fucked, so I thought I was deploying alpha and theta lances. I was, but only after deployment did I notice that Alpha lance was coming in as reinforcements. The light lance had to hold out against three enemy lances for 7 turns. It did not go well. By the time alpha lance showed up to rock some socks off, the wasp was in pieces, the hawk was running missing an arm and most of its armor, the javalin was on the ground crying, and the clint was trying to keep going with a couple pieces of armor still intact. Once the longbow showed up it was all over though(one of the few meks I have that I like).

I told you all of that so there would be context for some questions.
Is the Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 just super fragile? How should I play it so it doesn't explode? The Banshee seems super under armed. Is it? Is it worth refitting so I can have more fire power in my assault lance? cont.

>>54820401
questions cont.
The light meks seemed super shitty compared to mediums with the same movement speed. Is there a good reason to have lights? Did I just get really crappy ones? Right now the only combat forces available in the market are tanks. is it worth adding a couple of them to bring my forces back up to strength? Is the longbow actually the best thing since sliced bread? The warhammer tends to overheat like a bitch. Is it worth stripping out some of the smaller guns on it for some additional heat sinks? In the first engagment I met a LRM carrier with 3x LRM20s. This seemed pretty great, is it not?

Lastly, any general advice for ATB? I am really enjoying the game, but I can definitely see were I am terrible at it.

>>54820457
LRM carriers are very worth it, if you use them carefully. Tanks can be very good or pathetic depending on what model and how you use them (think hull down ambush with a Demolisher).

>>54820401
>>54820457

Check the HFE of buildings before jumping on them by hovering the mouse over the hex. The HFE number is the strength of the building to support machines and the total value you can shoot it up before it turns to rubble. Try walking into buildings to take a little damage but then be able to stand still and use them as armor from enemy fire once inside. Good way to save armor in a city fight.

Light mechs are made for scouting, very light combat and packhunting. The individual light mech is always disposable like almost every tank is. Treat them like spare parts instead of whole machines, especially the bugs.

The Pixie is meant to run hot and then jump to cover and cool down. Always keep it moving and flying around.

You'll stop singing the praises of the Longbow 0W once some asshole gets in close and punches through your armor into an ammo bin. But at least it can get where it needs to go in a hurry compared to it's cousins.

Tanks are cheap disposable guns, and sometimes they can bring a whole lotta guns. Missile carriers and autocannon boats are the premier vehicle use. LRM carriers beat pretty much every LRM mech in bang for buck as long as nothing ever actually gets up on them to shoot back.

>>54820401
>Is the Phoenix Hawk PXH-1 just super fragile?
It's a mother for light mechs, not a stand up fighter against stuff heavier than it, despite its weapons.

>The Banshee seems super under armed.
The Banshee you have is indeed underarmed. Look into refitting it to the -3S configuration.

>>54820457
The main reason to have lights in SW is because they're dirt cheap and easy to replace. You'll want to start dropping them as you get closer to the Clans.

>>54820615
Mostly the LB walked into a battle and started dropping an enemy tank per round at max range.

>>54821331
Anything that spreads cluster damage like that is death to enemy vehicles.

>>54820615
So I just got a light support tank with a LRM20. Should I assign it to beta lance, and rotate the second hawk to theta? Should I get another tank to add to beta?

>>54821670
Theta could use the extra firepower more and has machines better suited to spotters (look up the indirect fire rules for LRM's, fantastic way to keep your missile tanks out of harms way or call in fire in a cramped environment like a city)

Beta's movement profile fits with the Hunter's better though. 5/8's with 5/8's is usually better tactically.

If it was any kind of regular tank, I'd say Beta. Since it's a missile tank that won't be doing much fast moving anyhow, I'd go Theta.

>>54821826
Also why are auto cannons good? They seem to always do a crit, but I don't remember anything about it in the rules. Are they always firing AP? There are a couple heavy tanks for sale with AC/20s and stuff. Worth while?

>>54821953
It's positioning and the enemy. Vehicles take critical hits a lot more easily than mechs. Especially if you hit them from the side.

AC/20 tanks are only good in an ambush scenario. They're either too slow or too lightly armored to survive out the open normally. The Saladin hover tank is the exception to this, but needs wide open space to run free and not die.

>>54820016
They used some mediums in the 4th Succession War so maybe policy changed between 3025 and 3028.

>>54816801
What would be the most solid snake of all existant mechs?

Can anyone give me a short explanation of what the Abstract Combat System is?

>>54823048
One in a drop cocoon. It's a close as you get to putting a mech in a box.

Leopards or Unions /btg/?

>>54826153
Different craft for different purposes. Leopards are more for covert ops, raids where you aren't stealing anything, and small-unit insertions. Unions are workhorses that are meant to either be a base for a Merc unit, or be part of a fleet for larger militaries. They're comparable by stats but their roles make them like apples and oranges, really. What do you need a dropper for? That's the important question.

>>54826209
>comparable by stats
What I meant here is you CAN compare them by stats, but that's not going to be fair because the roles are different. Sorry, a bit out of sorts today.

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How do we save the Nova/Spirit Cats?

What's your favorite Nova/Spirit Cat mech?

>>54826209
Dont really need them for anything, just trying to stimulate discussion. Although I'm much more partial to the union, if only for aesthetic purposes.

>>54826287
>How do we save them?
They were already saved? What's left of them anyway. They're part of the Protectorate now, aren't they?
>favorite 'Mech
Sphinx is pretty cool. Huntsman and Thresher aren't really "theirs" but I like those too and they use them.

>>54826364
Ah, gotcha. Yeah I tried that earlier too. I like things like DroSTs for Mercs and Pirates; maybe Mules. Unions to me are more for "Sue" Merc outfits and organized militaries. Leopards are a bit more flexible; they're bad for Pirates because crap cargo capacity, and they're bad for Mercs for the same reason because bad for salvage, unless said Mercs are some kind of specialists that don't dabble in salvage because they're very high-end.

>>54826153
Muleq

>>54826551

>Huntsman and Thresher aren't really "theirs"

uwotm8

Huntsman is a Nova Cat 'Mech. Nobori-nin.

>>54828803
I thought other Clans used them too? I guess I should look it up.

I've wanted to get into Battletech for some time. I remember watching the shit-tier cartoon and deciding at some point that big robots were neato. But man, I hate hexes. Like really bad. Is it true the rulebook has a section for converting to measured movement, and if so - does it make the game play like shit?

>>54829051
I used to play miniature scale all the time (that's what you're referring to) and the only shitty part about it is determining LOS. If you can come up with good house rules or methods to do so, then it's pretty great, because you can make your own terrain, and it's much more involved overall. I'd say go for it, but you're better off learning on hexes first I think. Then transition. If you have no easy access to maps, then try miniature rules right out the gate. But yes, there are rules. I don't think they are in the free version of the game though. Perhaps in the new BattleMech Manual?

>>54829051
>But man, I hate hexes. Like really bad.
There is only one solution, you have to kill yourself for the good of society.

>>54829086
The Miniature Rules used to be a free PDF from either CGL's website or the Battleshop. Unfortunately both are down so I can't find a direct link.

If it's not in the above archives let me know, I should have a copy of it handy.

>>54829753
Ah okay that's cool. I should grab them because the last time we used them was in the BMR days. I'm that damn old.

What are the rules for heat sinks with OmniMechs?

Can you add more to one or are they fixed?

>>54830061
Sinks ARE pod mountable, but you can't add them to the engine if they aren't already in there on the base frame.

So any news from the lawsuit? Has based Harmony Gold BTFO those IP thieves yet?

>>54830061
As >>54830072 said, they can be pod mountable, but they can also be base mountable. Also the heatsink type is fixed with the base chassis: you can't convert a particular config to use a different type of HS without making actual changes to the base design.

>>54830963
No news until September 2018, anon, read the documents

What's the very best 3025 I NEVER FEAR DEATH OR DYING, I ONLY FEAR NEVER TRYING list at 10, 15 and 25k BV?

>>54832981
That much BV in Savannah Masters. Or, alternately, that much BV in Saladshooters.

NIGHTMARE MODE: That much BV in Ostscouts.

>>54833088
>That much BV in Savannah Masters.
...ouch. Just thinking about turn resolution in that game makes me hurt.

>>54826287
Invite them to Terra, I guess, and make them a recognized minority?

I prefer Nova Cat for Nova Cat. It's one of the most obnoxious snipers available.

>>54829695
You S U C C.

>>54828814

Other Clans might use it but the Cats are the ones who designed and built it.

>>54832981

That many BV worth of Wolfhounds, Wolverine-Ms, PPC Hoppers, and Marauder IIs, I suppose. At least if you're looking for zombie machines. I am not familiar with this meme.

>>54835028
To be fair, Clan Cloud Cobra helped them a lot with it, hence why I thought it wasn't a primarily Nova Cat 'Mech. The CCC used it, but yeah, it was designed and built for the Cats.

>>54832981
Steiner light battalion. Like, actual lights. You'd have forces with generally sound mechs, pilots and command, and an astounding absence of rich buffoons, but at the same time an absolute dearth of supplies and access to support and even guidance. And you'd be the first group thrown under a bus when something goes wrong.

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What mech is this?

>>54836882
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ice_Ferret_(Fenris)

>>54836956
That's what I thought, but /greg/ on Vidya Generals said it was a Myst Lynx.

>>54837169
Well, he's a vidya homo tomato.

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>tfw I start putting together a force for a new campaign

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>>54837236
It feels hubbly yubbly, don't it?

What kinda campaign are you workin' on? What tools and rules are you using for it?

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>>54800073
Using hardened Armor and Reinforced IS, I was able to make a medium mech jump 3/4/7, while having slightly better armor and IS than that 100T one

Armament suffers for it, down to One ER Large Laser and a Targeting computer, but this still fits the mission profile of being a very difficult to kill long range Harrasser, with the added bonus of now being immune to 1 hit headshots from Gauss Rifles and Clan ERPPCs

>>54837294
I can almost hear the raging of grogs when these beauties where put on the gaming table.

Nowdays to get the same reaction you need to make them Ponies

>>54837294
Introtech Kurita-Davion border scramble to control a planet campaign.

I'm the Kurita player, my friend is the Davion. We're both sort of new to BT but he has experience with other tabletop games, so we're looking at build a table-sized terrain board with elevation and water and stuff.

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new thread, orion edition
>>54837833