/btg/ BattleTech General

First for the Terran Hegemony will rise again!

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>MACKIE STRONK
As you wish, mechwarrior.

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>>54837956
It did. It was called the Blakist Protectorate, and it was awesome while it lasted.

>>54838470
>WoB, awesome

WoB, the Faction that got so butthurt when they didn't get a chance to join the Super Cool Club, went into austistic shitfit and started nuking everyone, and then got nuked to oblivion themselves. The only good thing out of it was it proved the point why flinging WMD weapons at willy nilly make a shitty setting.

>>54838596
Precisely why they were effectively outlawed during the SW eras. Having instant 'I Win' buttons doesn't make shit fun, it just makes the faction that's willing to throw them around with abandon 2edgy4me.

>>54838683
>Having instant 'I Win' buttons doesn't make shit fun, it just makes the faction that's willing to throw them around with abandon 2edgy4me.

As long as my faction wins, I don't care.

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>>54838940
>As long as my faction wins, I don't care.

You play Liao too?

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>>54838951

Absolutely. No point in going for another faction when the game's owner clearly likes one more than any other.

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>>54838951
>>54839118

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>>54839118
Not to mention the aesthetic. Both in fluff and mechs.

Since there seem to be Cappie players here at the moment, I thought I'd ask: was the Locust the only Bug mech the CapCon was building by 3025?

>>54838596
They went into an autistic shitfit and conventionally conquered everyone. They didn't break out the tacticals except for fighting in the Protectorate or against the Goons. And fuck the Goons.

>>54839358
Death Commandos?

>>54839342
Isn't that a Drac?

>>54839361
No. They also build the Stinger.

>>54839342
>Put her picture into google img search.
>The keyword it showed me was "beauty".

>>54839400
Why couldn't people with notJapanese heritage live in notChina and vice versa?

>>54839556
>Why couldn't people with notJapanese heritage live in notChina and vice versa?
because it's battletech

>>54839639
>because it's battletech

You mean the game where for the longest time, Capellans had a Japanese sword in their emblem? Where Yen-Lo-Wang has the emblem of Japanese navy on it?

>>54838951
T H I C C
A O
P N

>>54839829
yup

>bt
>making sense

>>54839361
Locust and Stinger at Bergan Industries on Ares, Stinger at Earthewerks Inc. on Grand Base, and Wasp at Hellespont 'Mech Works on Sian

>>54839405
>>54839999
Just clarifying, but I thought that the Earthwerks facility on Grand Base came online during/after the 4th Succession War, and that Hellespont Mech Works on Sian had ceased manufacturing mechs until they developed the Raven.

>>54839361
Locust and Stinger, but not Wasp I think.

Please post more Capellan girls.

>>54840536
You're right about Hellspont. I know that's why I don't have the Wasp listed in my files for 3025.

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>>54839394
Death come and do.

>>54839342
Her hips look shooped.

>>54839342
Is it weird that I think she'd look cuter in tight jeans and a too-big plaid shirt?

>>54840536
>>54841431

>Grand Base
Got a source for that to add to the list? All I have pre-3050 is Grand Base listed as a mech factory in original House Liao (not the best of sources) and it's marked as a factory world in 1st and 2nd Succession Wars (so it could have been destroyed and rebuilt in the interim, or those are referencing Hellespont's vehicle manufacturing).

>Sian
Another House Liao/1SW/2SW listee with no further detail. Again, if you have a source, the list thrives on detail.

>>54843058
House Liao specifically says Hellespont had all its main factories destroyed in the early Succession Wars so built a new facility on Sian to be as far from combat as possible and built only tanks like the Vedette to remain a low profile target. However, though it doesn't build mechs, it is known for mech modification and salvage restoration.

>>54843058
Not sure when the Grand Base mech production facility became solidly canon, but Brush Wars has Grand Base as "The site of the largest ’Mech manufacturing complexes in the
Confederation" in 3030.

>>54843214
Further, the First Succession War Wasp entry fucks this up by proclaiming production on Sian when it should be one of the unnamed worlds Hellespont had factories on before the Succession Wars. There is no 2nd SW entry for Hellespont.

The original source for the Wasp factory is Objective Raids, which dates it as early 50's.

Hellespont Industrials is the name of the original factory.
Hellespont Mech Works is the name of the new factory built beside it and is separated out in the original material.

Objective raids places the construction for the Hellespont Industrials factory on Sian at 2865 and then places the Mech factory at the time of the full production Raven.

Basically somebody forgot to factcheck that part of First Succession War and just went "Where do Caps make Wasp 1A's? Ok, we'll just say there."

>>54843405
>Not sure when the Grand Base mech production facility became solidly canon

Since the beginning. We just didn't know what was made there exactly for awhile.

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>>54843436
>factchecking errors
colour me surprised

>>54843470
Ok, cool. Given the reference to flaws in the original House Liao sourcebook I wasn't sure if it had been changed/retconned/whatever later.

>>54843517
House Liao isn't bad really. Most of the housebooks are pretty solid outside a couple small fuckups and production numbers later relegated to relative numbers than absolute.

A lot of people get the wrong impression because they see differences between them and the 3060's Handbooks but then fail to take into account the time difference. Like the jokers who see the Jalastar-licensed Grasshopper line they built in 3061 and think it means the Suns always made Grasshoppers.

Now Objective Raids or Periphery 1st Ed production info, ho boy.

>>54843613
>Periphery 1st Ed production info
The level of retcons/bad info in that book is honestly super overblown. There's a red-hot three probably placeholder designs that've been retconned away and a bunch of planetary populations that were retconned *upward* by CGL, because FASAnomics weren't bad enough already, apparently

>>54843916
I said production info for a reason. The actual flavor text of 1609 is still the best periphery book, period. Even Objective Raids is still like 95% truth despite being relegated to secondary canon.

I would certainly hope the Cappies have Wasp production in the 3000s; the 1L is my favorite variant and I have two of the lil bastards in my Liao company.

>>54843966
>The actual flavor text of 1609 is still the best periphery book, period
Periphery 2e gets close, all it's minor power elaboration is suburb fluff, though admittedly it loses points on account of being so severely retconned by FM:P and HB:MPS

>>54839382

>They went into an autistic shitfit and conventionally conquered everyone.

Read the books you retard.

>>54839400

The authors can't tell them apart, maybe that's the joke?

Ok so what mech production did Liao have in the Succession Wars?

Locusts, Stingers, Wasps, UrbanMechs, Highlanders... What else?

>>54844218
Which Succession War? The answer changes drastically based on that, as well as on whether you want pre- or post-retcon production.

>>54844243
I guess on the eve of the First War, and what they had left at the end of the Third in 3025.

I remember they had Vindicators to fill all the gaps in units, and I think Warhammers or Marauders were being built on Tikonov.

>>54844151
You read the books. A lot of the stuff in Dawn and 3070 are pointed out to be false from the initial reports.

>New Avalon, conventionally conquered, orbital bombardment
>Luthien, conventionally assisted the Coordinator while Black Dragons did stupid shit
>Tharkad, conventional orbital support, old powerplant exploded
>Atreus, gassed the Knights and conventionally conquered
>All the MoC, ran rampent over by just two divisions

A massive amount of what they did in the early material was due to them getting absolute fleet superiority in a system and doing to the defenders what the Dracs did to the Fedsuns at Palmyra. They didn't break out the tacnukes in force outside the chaos march until they were getting rolled up by the Coalition.

>>54844218
>UrbanMechs, Highlanders
Haha, no. Not even with the stupid retcons.

>>54844285
Locust
Stinger
Raven(prototype)
Vindicator
Wolverine
Rifleman
Thunderbolt
Cataphract(prototype)
Victor

>>54844285
At the beginning, I think they had Thuds, Wasps, Stingers, Vindicators, Marauders, Warhammers, some Ost-'Mech (Ostroc I think?), UrbanMech, Striker, Victor, Locust, Wolverine (?) and... I'm not sure what else. At the end they were stuck with the Vindicator, Bugs, Victor, Highlander if you use the retcon, Cataphract at the tail end, and the Thud?

>>54844367

Cool. Now tell me about Necromo, the Taurian homeworld, the MoC capital, the Drac planet they hit with asteroids, the...

>>54844447
>Wolverine
Really? Huh. I didn't know about that, though I knew they had them. I suppose it makes sense since Kallon was founded in the Tikonov sector. So they'd have the Rifleman too then. How'd they get their Blackjacks? Leftovers from the SLDF? I know they don't make them.

>>54844504
Asteroids aren't nukes, friend.

>The MoC capital
Literally napalmed from the air.

>>54844447
They really never manufactured Urbies? I was so sure...
And I thought the Highlanders were retconned in with TRO 3039 or something.

>>54844505
>How'd they get their Blackjacks? Leftovers from the SLDF? I know they don't make them.

They have the most left for the same reason they have Urbanmechs, shuffled off to rearline duty and hardly used. They do put them in production on St. Ives in the 4th War but that line gets killed for the Phoenix Valkyrie later.

>>54844574
The Highlander facility is refit and restoration only, no new production like the Crab stuff in the same book.

>>54844641
Oh yeah, the BJ-3. That monster. Would have been nice if they could have kept it instead of the stupid Highlander retcon but... it is what it is I guess. I'm just glad I was able to remember most of what they have access to in that era off the top of my head. Couldn't very well be a CC player if I couldn't. I don't usually use the BJ-3, even with how good it is, since it's contentious, due to using Freezers and the wonkiness around that and the 3039 retcons.

>>54844641
>The Highlander facility is refit and restoration only
The TRO entry seems to indicate they manufacture small numbers of Highlanders.

>>54844710
The TRO entry specifically states they need wrecked chassis and that's part of their license from Starcorps.

>>54844733
It says "destroyed chassis from scratch", which is essentially building new ones.

It also says
>Both the Capellan Confederation and the Lyran Commonwealth use the Highlander in small numbers, as the production lines only churned out less than a dozen a year in either facility.

And that Hollis was custom building them.

Fewer than one mech a month makes sense too.

>>54844682
The way to do it is just to dump the 3039 retcons in the garbage where they belong, and then use the occasional 2750 downgrade as a hero mech that survived naturally like we know weird and nearly extinct stuff of all kinds is still all over the sphere whether it's common enough to get into a TRO or not.

Like Captain Yuri Petrov in his old King Crab in the command lance or whatever that even his men don't know what the hell it is but a whirlwind of ballistic destruction.

>>54844778
It's a hard limit because they need some kind of parts from the old ones.

Hollis is actual production because they make new machines, not recycle and refit old ones.

>>54844788
I'm still on the fence about the retcons. On one hand, I've always felt that the armies, even in the 4th SW, were too small, and adding more variety is a good thing. That and I like a lot of the 2750 machines so that's nice too. But it just feels so sloppy and people keep butting heads over it so I just tool along with the old continuity because why bother with the new shit when even CGL can't decide how things are? You're right that you can just toss in a downgrade or legacy machine here and there, and really, people don't play the game on the tabletop like it happens in the fluff anyway in that era, so why worry? If we did it "legit" it'd be an armless Shad and Urbie with a company of LRM carriers and Scorpions against a Banshee and two lances of Rommels.

>>54844837
You know what's funny is that armies are like 75% as big in the DA as they are in 3025? Also, it doesn't affect variety at all, just commonality and timing. It never made any sense to me because it's like trying to crowbar a Madcat into a 3025 game. There's nothing wrong with Madcats, just play a 3049 game or something instead where you can actually make the scenario work instead of cocking up everything.

>>54844820
Ok.

Not trying to argue with you, the retcon stuff just seems confusing. I cross-checked HB:HL and I think it says what you do pretty much.

It is a little confusing too. It says the mech factories were destroyed but that by 3067 they're producing the Catapult again. When did that start, I wonder.

>>54844554

>i will now redefine wmds to fit my extremely narrow niche so i can argue the wob totally did everything conventionally

OK friendo.

>>54844837

There are some who just have raging hate-ons about changing anything to do with the 3020-ish era but I don't think we have anyone that autistic here.

Most people just get pissy about the seemingly random assignment of shit to different factions, especially where another Unseen factory would probably make more sense instead.

>>54844893
No offense but using the DA as a reference point isn't very good because it's fluff from an outside source that cared even less about fact-checking and accuracy and bulldozed the story they wanted to tell through common sense. The armies being smaller then than they were in the 4th SW is pants-on-head fucktarded and even CGL has admitted they worked with what they were handed and it was not what should have been. Topps forced the issue though so here we are, I guess. I don't really have a leg to stand on, I'll admit, because the DA is still canon, but it's just one of those things I'll never be able to really let go and one reason I prefer pre-Jihad play.

>>54844837
>it'd be an armless Shad and Urbie with a company of LRM carriers and Scorpions against a Banshee and two lances of Rommels
That game sounds excellent. I'd play it (once).

>>54844926
You said nuked. This wasn't a wmd discussion. Nobody is contesting that.

>>54844837
>implying your Elsie overlords would give you with two full lances of brand spanking new Rommels

You'll take your poorly-assembled Quikcell Manticores and you will like it.

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All this Liao-talk and 3025 stuff has me wondering, and so I have a /btg/ challenge:

Say you're a member of the Liao family, and in the early 3020s, and Max, his wife and children all perish in a dropship accident.
You're next in line and the Prefectorate chooses you to be Chancellor.

And so in 3024, in the closing days of the Third Succession War, you take your place as ruler of the Capellan Confederation.

What would you do to guide your nation back from the precipice it rests on?

How could you reform the economy, rebuild the armed forces?

Looking for serious answers. I know it'd probably just be easier to surrender to the Davions or Mariks.

>>54845625
When Katrina Steiner sends out her call for alliance in 3025, fucking answer her and get in on the ground floor of the Confederated Commonwealth. Even Hanse would be more than happy to cut off Mike Hasek's balls and tear the Dragon a new one instead.

>>54845625
>>54845688
Has it. Join in with the FedCom and negotiate some of your lost worlds back in favor of helping keep Marik busy while Hanse and Katrina ream the Dracs.

>>54845718
>lost worlds
Like Chesterton, New Avalon and Terra?

>>54845915
I said some, you gotta be reasonable in your expectations. Ask for too much and you either get laughed out of the negotiations or 4th Succession War again.

>>54845625
Hope hanse is interested in polygamy

>>54845915
Ease off the gas there Chancy. The clever way to do it is push hard enough to hurt Hasek while Hanse laughs all the way to Black Luthien.

Basically, you have to play it like the Taurians played their part in the Trinity Alliance. Let the other lords use some of your forces, but you use their resources and expertise to upgrade your factories and infrastructure. Then when the time for crushing Marik rolls around, you keep Davion pinned in the Spinward side of the Sphere supplying goodies and troops while you take back Andurien and Oriente from the pidgeons.

Comstar will probably tip their hand somewhere in the middle there and you let Hanse's feud with them keep his focus while you conquer elsewhere.

Best case, you become one of the new Council of Lords and put forward one of your children to marry Melissa's first and help unite everything into a true Star League. Worse case, you can negotiate with Hanse to basically become the new Lord of the Double Capellan March and secure your survival as a lesser house like the Sandovals with a direct line to the throne.

Assuming the Clans still show up on schedule, then you also get to be filthy rich merchant fuckers like the Mariks with the Blakist bleed and then get to conquering the Periphery as the last frontier.

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>Start up a 2v2 game with some friends.
>Move first unit forward

>>54846130
>using your supercharger which is only good for like four turns on the first turn when you're not even in combat

For what purpose?

>>54846168
Networking

>>54845625
Augmented Lances become the standard military organizational unit to stretch our already paper-thin forces even further, spreading out our 'Mech numbers and shoring up weak points. The Vindicator gets some love, fixing its ails as the Vindicator II, and introducing a new variant (base model gains torso twist, variant is the St. Ives config but with an LRM5/SRM6 combo instead of the LRM10 upgrade). The Po hits the shelves earlier, and we focus on developing two variants for sale alongside; one has no turret and an AC/20, and the other has a large brace of SRM6s in place of the AC, retaining the turret. Funnel that money into refurbishing factories and getting Cataphract production online and ramped up.

Politically, we're kind of boned. Folks calling for the alliance with the Lyrans got it wrong; what do we have to offer? The best we can hope for is to court the Dracs, a la the Kapteyn Accords, but leave the Burds out of it. Funnel a ton of Po production into the DC, and take the Chargers we get and roll them into every available shop to get them converted to the 1A5. Ship a few of them back to the Dracs for a fee, and keep the rest. Offer to convert more, or send people to help them convert one of their Charger lines to make the variant if they wish. Hire some Mercs to watch the FWL border, freeing up our military to watch the Suns border. If the Dracs ask us to move, we move against the Suns in unison with them, with the understanding that if we get rekt, the Liao family can seek asylum in the Combine, and marry into the Kurita family. If we survive somehow, we take our battle-hardened troops and invade the MoC/Detroit, and offer half to the FWL if they come along. Even if they don't, the Anduriens will, because it means we're not invading them and it means if they cede from the FWL, they'll have more worlds and more clout. And if they do, we'll secure the alliance through marriage. Fuck old claims; we just need to survive at this point.

>>54845625

Wasn't the double already in place by then? Sortek finds out in '25.

I'd probably start the Trinity Alliance early and try to make nice with the FWL.

>>54846077

Cappie production was pretty fucked even before the 4th SW, I don't think there's any way for them to rise to that level unless someone trips over a hidden Hesperus level-factory that nobody's ever noticed before.

>>54846168

Supercharger cools off like MASC, anon. You should be able to use it at least every other turn without trouble.

>>54846520
Katrina literally called for any of the five houses to make peace with her and bring an end to the Third Succession War. She wanted an alliance with whoever she could get. Not one but two or three or four. And Capellan/Fedsuns both fit neatly into not being historical enemies of her realm. You could even twist it back with the historical Capellan efforts at peace and more civil warfare.

There is no stopping the Fedcom juggernaut realistically. It was a comedy of errors that the Capellans survived in canon. Once you change any of that, you're looking down the barrel of being conquered. Better to join the winners when the thing is in it's crib and you have maximum negotiating power.

The Po is also a post-4th War design and has nothing to do with the timeframe being talked about.

Is the BattleTech video game going to have online rankings and, for lack of a better term, esports features?

>>54846642
Are you retarded, or just baiting? Why would you want that?

>>54846623

Suns and Cappies are mutually exclusive allies for Katrina though. They hate each other too much so neither will stay if the other is in. Realistically the Suns offer the Lyrans a shit ton more as allies, especially with the NAIS and their military capabilities.

Cappies need to look to the Purple Burds or Periphery for allies.

>>54846660
Why would I want online leaderboards in a competitive game? I don't know. Why would anybody ever want that?

>>54846700
So the answer as to whether you're retarded is yes. Got it. Thanks.

>>54846700

It's not meant to be competitive though.

Though I'm sure tryhard faggots will make it so.

>>54846623
I realize the Cappies surviving shouldn't have happened; I say that as someone that plays them in that era too. I just don't think Katrina was talking to the CC when she put out the call; just because it was a general call, and even if they got contacted directly, I don't think she wanted them. And if she did, the Suns showing up would have ended that fast.

As for the Po, it's an ICE engine and an AC/10. It was in development earlier than it was produced, and speeding that up isn't that out of bounds. We're already playing with history a bit, why not a bit more? It's not like I god-moded some additional Atlas factories or something. So I don't see your issue.

>>54846662
>They hate each other too much so neither will stay if the other is in.

That changes if YOU are the Chancellor, especially at the time that the lord that guards that border for the Suns is literally trying to dethrone Hanse himself. The Capellan people believe whatever the hell you tell them to.

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>>54846520
>Vindicator II

How's this for a Clan invasion era upgrade of the concept?

>>54846791
HAHAHHAHAHA not him but no it doesn't. Hanse didn't promise the Confederation as a wedding gift because he just randomly started disliking them.

>>54846728
>>54846736
Not that anon but within the first seven minutes of that almost hour-long video they've mentioned player rankings and how they're working hard on making multiplayer balanced and competitive.

>>54846870
The man had a mole in place all ready to go. If it wasn't for Justin's plot, they probably would've killed the Dracs instead.

>>54846880
Then HBS is just as retarded as him. Two wrongs don't make a right. I sure as shit don't trust HBS or PGI to make a "competitive" game with rankings.

>>54846862
Damn fine, son. 8.5/10 would mass-produce.

>>54846791

Let's suppose for a moment that the Mask wouldn't depose you for being such a faglord that you're willing to be butt buddies with Hanse.

Hanse still absolutely fucking HATES the Confederation, as does at least a third of the Suns.

Regardless of what you do as Chancellor, nothing short of replacing Hanse and changing the Suns' attitude to the Capellans for the past 200 years is gonna change that.

>>54846862

Pull the extra two DHS and give it an ER PPC.

>>54846927
>Hanse still absolutely fucking HATES the Confederation, as does at least a third of the Suns.

Knigga, I'm the Chancellor in 3025. So no Sword and Dagger plot, no Hanse hateboner for the Confederation.

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>>54846950
>Sempai, my goalposts are moving on their own!
This is rich.

>>54846950

The double plot starts in 3015 and isn't discovered until 3025, mere months after taking over in this scenario.

There very likely isn't time to stop the plot even if the new chancellor knows about it.

Take it back to like 3020 and sure, then you can stop it.

That still isn't going to stop Hanse's hate for the Confederation. Operation Doppelganger wasn't the thing that turned his opinion out of the blue, it was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

>>54847002

I always love these sorts of what-ifs.

>i'm going to change this one thing five seconds before disaster strikes and avert it :^)

>but anon there is a rape train with no breaks headed your way with literally no way to escape it

>SHUT UP SHUT UP MY ONE SINGLE CHANGE WILL STOP IT

>>54847009
Wasn't Hanse mostly focused on Kurita until Liao's doppleganger plot?

>>54847009
>>54847224
Fucking thank you. I mean people could at least put in SOME thought.

>>54847314
Yeah, because of what they did to Ian and because they were always the greatest threat.

>>54847314
The Dracs were the bigger military threat, but the Suns have had aspirations to absorb the Cappies for a long-ass time. Sunny just gave them a reason to do it before attacking the Dracs instead of after. they had secured that border.

>>54837833

>>54820401 <-this anon
Played some more, and holy shit I love this game.
Updates:
>The warhammer go beaten to death in the fourth mission.
>Bought a Warrior Attack Helicopter H-7C, haven't really got a chance to try it out.
>salvaged and rebuilt a champion CHP-2N and a wolverine WVR-6R.
>finished repairing basically everything.
>shiffted down intensity from 1.3 to .5, now feeling less overwelmed.

Now some points I would like guidance on:
I have a 2/4 mechwarrior who was running the warhammer. Were should I put her?
Of the 2 meks I refurbished, are either usefull? Should I put the champ in beta and give it to my 2/4?
Are VToL vehichles cool? Should I buy more if I can find them?
Should I be deviding my lances like I am? I keep getting lance deploying one at a time.

Questions about AtB and proper play:
I have been trying not to abuse the GM powers but... I did force make some vehichle crews for the vehichles I bought. Also on the third mission, the banshee my comander was driving got one shot in the head (not even an internal hit, just armor crit with a head blown off result). I had him be at 5 hits in the after action instead of dying.
I worry I am taking to many liberties. What is to much for AtB?

>>54847314

Not really. I mean he didn't like the Dracs but even before Doppelganger he was more interested in wrecking the Cappies. The Dracs were on the backburner because the Capellans were an easier target.

Absolute best-case scenario for the CapCon in the 3020s is allying with the FWL and hoping the FedCom double-teams the Dracs. Even that is just buying them time before the inevitable happens.

The 3020s fluff is extremely one-sided. You'd need to extensively re-write stuff at least as far back as the 2nd SW to give the Capellans a reasonable shot.

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What if Hanse and Katrina had launched their grand FedCom rape train against House Kurita in 3028?

I mean the CCAF was practically incapable of launching real military offensive anyway, and the FWLM was burned out on war, so the AFFS and LCAF could easily have held on the defense on those two fronts.

How might the war have gone? Would the DCMS have been utterly shattered?

>>54847009
>>54846950
Yes, and Hanse's hate wasn't directed at the Cappies at large, hombre. His hateboner was for Maximilian Liao plain and simple. Even to the point where he let that one Colonel who fucked Max's wife on Terra defect with Tikonov until his dick lead him into an ex-Mask assassin.

And even if Hanse held a grudge against you as the new Chancellor, he's not so much of an idiot that he'd turn down the advantages of an alliance knocking a leg from under Hasek, as well as letting him focus on the Dracs.

Best thing I could do as Chancellor of the Confederation is to make nice and get some of that sweet NAIS-tech into my own economy and start carving into the FWL.

>>54847362
Cont.
One last ATB question. Because the game is preset with individual initative, spotting is really iffy. Is there a way to give the pilot an arbitrary initative boost so it can go after all potential spotters?

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>>54847494
>His hateboner was for Maximilian Liao plain and simple

Literally worse than Hitler or even Trump.

>>54847224
There really isn't any sort of winning combination if you're working on everyone treating you like you're in Max's body instead of being a new ruler with some clout and traction of your own.

If you put up a better fight in the 4th War than Max, then Davion just hits you again in the 3030's instead of making war on Kurita and finishes the job.
If you try to make an alliance, nobody takes you seriously except the periphery who are even worse off than you are.
Other than that, just gathering all your shit, fucking off Rimward and pulling a Kerensky.

No, wait. I just had a flash of insight. You could always sell your soul to Comstar, the only other major player. They might actually play ball.

>>54847395
With Takashi Kurita dicking over Theodore, and half of his Warlords being incompetent?

It wouldn't have gone well, but Comstar would have still done an interdiction and there's a lot more worlds to capture in the Combine.

Utterly shattered, no. But better than even odds Rasalhague would be part of the Fedcom.

>>54847529
Max or Hanse? They're both kind of dickbags.

>>54847539
With Primus Myndo Waterly on the horizon? Fuuuuuck thaaaat.

>>54847554
>With Primus Myndo Waterly on the horizon? Fuuuuuck thaaaat.

Like that's a bad thing. We could get some real Emperor Constantine shit going on with Blakism. Robe Sheng, brother.

>>54847395

Theodore Kurita straight-up tells Hanse that if he had pushed slightly harder in 3039 he would have killed the Combine. The Historical has the AFFC kill off a quarter of the DCMS with negligible losses in turn.

The Lyrans already took almost as much of the Combine as the Suns did of the CapCon during the 4th SW.

Having both go after the Dracs would have killed them. The AFFC literally has enough units to go 2:1 on Drac commands while retaining a 1:1 ratio against the Caps and at least a .5:1 against the FWLM which is going nowhere thanks to lol rebellions funded by Hanse any way.

>>54847494

>Yes, and Hanse's hate wasn't directed at the Cappies at large, hombre.

Read the fluff. He has plenty of hate for the Confederation and wants it gone. He deliberately tries to break Max's mind due to the double thing but nothing can save the Caps unless you go back decades rather than five years.

>>54847539

>There really isn't any sort of winning combination if you're working on everyone treating you like you're in Max's body instead of being a new ruler with some clout and traction of your own.

For the purposes of this scenario that is what's going to happen though. You magically take over right at the last second when everyone has been revving up the rape trains for *years* with plots started by Max that are only going to fuck your shit up hanging over your head.

Getting a new leader doesn't magically make all the other stuff going on and a whole bunch of existing history change.

>>54847529

Why is that in any way bad? As a Capellan fan, I reckon that neither Hitler nor Trump have done anything genuinely wrong.

>>54847897
>Capellan fan
>thinks a guy who hates China has done nothing wrong
bet you thought you were clever, Fedrat

>>54847669
I just read the Warrior trilogy again last week homie. Hanse's mad-on was directed at Max. What he felt for the Cappies in general wouldn't be enough to blind him to the advantages of a new Chancellor suddenly on the throne reaching out.

Especially if you flavor it with a dash of 'I cannot into politics, halp.' Stroke his foxy ego a bit
>2800 Avalon
Captcha agrees...I think?

>>54848199

If you'd read the books you'd know that he was planning to slap their shit in one way or the other.

The doppelganger was the reason he went after Max in the specific way he did but not the sole reason he went after the CapCon. The Suns has had a grudge against the Caps since forever.

And admitting you can't into politics to Hanse is just fucking retarded. Of course he would keep you at the top of his shit list then. And a new Chancellor on the throne is the *perfect* time to drop on them like a ton of bricks, he'll be busy still trying to consolidate power and unfuck what Max had done.

I hate to be the one who breaks it to you but the fluff for the era has Hanse pointed at the Caps with or without the double as an inciting incident, and the FedCom as a massively overwhelming power that had to be stopped by fiat because nothing else could slow them down.

Up until at least the Jihad, and probably until Palmyra, the Sun is just too good and too pissed off with the Caps.

One could argue that Hanse should hate the Dracs more because they killed Ian, but that's never been borne out in the fluff.

>>54848322
Not him but the fluff of the era is all post Doppleganger so you don't really see Hanse before that. Even Battletechnology is 3025.

Reading Sword and Dagger in the time before that, he's just kinda finding his footing and his geatest goal is to hoard as much information and Star League shit as he can to try to build his state while fending off internal threats like the Duke of New Syrtis. He doesn't really get the ball rolling on dreams of conquest until after the 3025 alliance and even then he had Operation Galahad covering both his bases shifting troops out of the Crucis March. He didn't commit to a Capellan War until Galahad II in 3027.

>>54843214
Checked the source, and you're spot on. The Raven would be their reentry into 'mech production then, which the MUL puts at 3024 for the prototype version, probably some time later for full production. Regarding the original question about bug production, the next source chronologically is Combat Manual Kurita which goes up to just before the Clan Invasion in 3050, so Wasp manufacture would have started up sometime in between.

>>54843405
TRO3039 puts Cataphract and Stinger production there, at least. Battle Pack: 3rd Succession War has the Cataphract produced by Earthwerks with an MUL intro date of 3027, but that could just as easily be Tikinov.

>>54843436
One of many factory worlds that appear on the 1SW list but not the 2SW list, or vice versa. And then there's Satalice.
Where do you see the 2865 date for the factory relocation to Sian? Don't see that in my copy.

>>54848538
>Where do you see the 2865 date for the factory relocation to Sian? Don't see that in my copy.

It's "In the lull between the end of the 2nd Succession War and the beginning of the 3rd"

There was only one year between the two, 2865.

>>54847539
>except the periphery who are even worse off than you are
And they actually hate the CC, too

>>54848469

As I said though, the problem here is that in the stated scenario the new Chancellor probably doesn't get in with enough time to stop the doppelganger plot from being discovered. You'd need to go back further.

In this scenario, you almost certainly have the doppelganger problem and you definitely have a new, untested Chancellor trying to consolidate power.

Max might be gone but Hanse is still gonna be pissed and the Confederation is still by far the more tempting target.

Go back to 3014 (or at least before 3024 and hope Hanse doesn't find out about the doppelganger) and you *might* be able to make a case for Hanse having the Dracs at the top of his to-do list. But all that will do is flip the targets of the Suns in the 4th SW and War of 3039, with ComStar having even fewer reasons to help the Caps.

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Why do you assholes pretend like you know where all the factories are? No one can keep track of that shit and no one should.

>>54848658
Nice try Roosterboy, but we're wise to your tricks.

>>54848590
I was just pointing out that it was definitely the source for most of his Capellan grudge. Still likely fucked. On the dealing front, even in that era, you have Duke Hasek working through back channels with Liao to fuck over Hanse and the Haseks hate Liao the most of anybody. Sure, he planned to stab them in the back as soon as he could but it showcases the point that even the most hated enemies still worked together sometimes in that era. So diplomatic stuff might not be totally off the table with everyone.

>>54846590
>I'd probably start the Trinity Alliance early and try to make nice with the FWL.
You'd have to marry a Kyalla. Which isn't bad, but it immediately heightens tensions with Andurien. Maybe marry yourself into Andurien and someone else into Canopus. Taurians are a lost cause in 3025, I think.

>>54844218
They built Atlases (and Victors) on Carver IV until Marik took it in the mid 2900s. Don't know exactly when that factory was built, nor exactly when it was destroyed.

Anton Marik gives them blueprints for BattleMasters and Wolverine-Ms, though again, I don't think we have data on when (or if) those were put into production.

>>54844285
Vindicators were invented between the First and Second wars, when the Capellans had been reduced to one factory (and that factory had a limit of 60 tons).

>>54848672
anon, plox.

Stop pretending like you know or care where shit is. The authors can and do pull factories out of their ass on a routine basis.

>>54848679

>Wolverine-Ms

Definitely never for the Wolverine since it remains a Marik exclusive in the era on the MUL.

Beemer I'm almost certain (as in, 99.99999999999999999% sure) because if they had that the Suns wouldn't have needed to be given the Warlord later to make up for their total lack of Beemer production.

>>54848679
i don't get it. why keep track of a single factory? doesn't each house have hundreds?

>>54848658
By actually playing campaigns and not pickup games. Access to chassis, parts, ammunition and knowing what your enemy or potential employer has access to is just something you learn naturally.

So play the game.

>>54848750
Don't be an autistic ass.

>>54848679
I'd choose to marry into Andurien over the MoC. Because then you can get certain interested parties in the FWL on your side when it comes to invading the MoC, and the Anduriens at that time want to cede so you'd be shoring them up too. Just have to make sure you are very clear that Andurien is for Anduriens, and you're just allying with them as a sovereign nation, not claiming them.

>>54848740
A couple dozen or so, more like. Materiel manufacturing is absurdly low in Battletech.

>>54848740
if not thousands.

>>54848740
>doesn't each house have hundreds?
Each house has like 12 at the very best of times

>>54848740
No, they really don't. They should, but they don't because FASAnomics.

>>54848767
>playing how I don't play is badwrong
Kay.

>>54848776
So why can't you just write a list of where they all are? It doesn't have to be exhaustive.

>>54848799
Your the one forcing your autistic standards on ME.

>>54848580
Yeah the CC was so statist/authoritarian that it still never made much sense for the MoC/TC to give Sun-Tzu the time of day.

>>54848802
Some of us are retarded and care about that shit. I know when I make "serious" designs I like to fluff them out and make sure the parts are all able to be locally sourced, and so when I do variants, I limit myself to what parts are available from nearby manufacturers in the same faction.

>>54848802
Sure, now what is that factory producing when? Additionally, does that factory continue producing the same mechs when taken over by another faction? Next, what happens when you get to experience the excitement of poor fact checking and this factory doesn't actually make that mech? And so on.

>>54848837
Holly launchers are an all the time food.

>>54848818
How? Do I lean over you and tell you how to play? You're judging someone else's playstyle. So calm thy 'tism. I just called you out on it, nothing more. Defensive much?

>>54848679
BattleMasters on some world (might have been Corey?) years later. Wolverine-M probably never since the CapCon lost their Wolverine factories in the 4th War.

>>54848837
yeah, so why not just make a list then?

If each house has less than a dozen then it should be easy.

>>54848767
No need to be so salty that you haven't had any great campaigns or stories from such. You play an Andurien campaign and you'll never forget that Lopez is where your missiles come from. Just like you'll never forget those Warrior House fuckers camped out on Betelgeuse.

>>54848860
Sarna does have a decent list. It's one of the only good things it's for, apparently.

It irritates me that you think this shit is relevant and try to convince others that it is relevant when you can't even produce a short list.

>>54843517
The old house books aren't really bad, or even heavily retconned, so much as they were written while BattleTech's setting and flavor were still being hammered out. As a result there were some differences in level of detail from book to book, like House Marik and House Liao are flaky in describing what 'mechs they produce and where, while House Steiner and House Davion give model numbers and production levels.

Similarly, in House Liao's regiment descriptions they include the 'Primary Battlemechs' fielded by each regiment, something none of the other House books did, and it kind of runs against the Third Succession War idea of almost every unit being a hodgepodge of whatever was left after two and a half centuries of brutal warfare. This is extra fun because they include such gems as the Blackwind Lancers fielding primarily Hatchetmen and Archers, despite later fluff saying the Hatchetman as only being developed two years prior by a rival house they don't even share a border with, or multiple regiments fielding significant numbers of Commandos or Panthers. There's even one each listed as fielding Hornets and Falcons, which only show up in the game as Battledroid minis with no stats and apocryphal references in Battletechnology magazine until the Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook, and then only as rare designs not often seen on the battlefield.

>>54848860
Most of us do have lists, bro and excel sheets. You think we pull it out of thin air every time somebody asks? What most of us don't have is comprehensive lists through time. Mine goes through 3050'ish or so. I look up more specific recent stuff if I need it.

>>54848871
The sarna lists don't have dates though. It's their major flaw.

>>54848871
And aren't there several hundred entries on that list? Isn't it completely arbitrary, of no relevance to the story or the campaign and entirely the result of author fiat?

After all, if you knew where the factories were, wouldn't the houses fight over those instead of demanding retribution cause somebody curb stomped your redneck border colony with already divided loyalties?

What is the point in taking planets that have no strategic value when you can jump literally anywhere?

They are fighting over dirt.

>>54848871

The Sarna lists are run by autitsts who insist on reverting edits that remove factories that have been retconned out, or retconned in, because muh 3025 House Books and muh Objective Raids.

I like playing BattleTech but my local scene is shit. One group is ran by is ran by a couple of CGL demo agents, they only play twice a month and alternate between BT and AS. My biggest problem is that they only run scenarios with fixed loadouts and we can only use their mechs (I'm also not allowed to bring my robotech minis). The only other group either play intro tech only lance battles or advanced/experimental tech single mech solaris matches. They also have little to no interest in using vehicles or infantry, and absolutely no clan. I really want to use my collection figures, play around with Alpha Strike (specifically a company consisting of 1 mech lance, 1 vee lance, 1 BA lance).

>>54848935
Your argument can be summed up like this:
>BattleTech is composed of idiots doing stupid things and I'm mad about it.
Yeah, we all are anon. Just let it go, it doesn't make sense and never has.

>>54848935
>He thinks Houses don't gun for factory worlds
>He thinks there's no limit to jump distance
Jesus man, read the books. Can't tell if new or trolling.

>>54848935

>What is the point in taking planets that have no strategic value when you can jump literally anywhere?

What are logistics?

What is a tax base?

What is the prestige of ruling over hundreds of worlds?

No, anon. The autist is you.

>>54848899
But thats what I mean, if the list is exhaustive enough to require spreadsheets and excel, then its really just fiat. The designers put things where they are convenient and logistics have no relevance whatsoever on the outcome of the battles.

Its like trying to count how many starfighters the Empire has in Star Wars, its completely pointless.

Going into a campaign and I'm only allowed to bring 2 Lights and 2 Mediums and it's Succession Wars era. Thinking of taking 2 Commandos, 1 Hunchback and 1 Dervish. Any advance on load outs?

Everytime an author needs a new plot device they can just pull a new planet out of their ass, and if the plot demands a factory, then it will have a factory, no care whatsoever is given to the placement or logistics regarding the facilities because it is entirely irrelevant.

You can't even place where most of the factories are on a map.

>>54848973
No, it's not. 12 factories x 5 states + the Periphery, making different chassis and variants over time is something that's simple in terms of strategic usefulness, especially in what's available for a given faction, but requires a spreadsheet to track.

Especiall when you also need to track the Aero, Tank, DS and JS factories.

>>54848990

Yeah, refit the Commandos with the payload of the Mongoose, refit the Dervis as a Wolverine-M, and refit the Hunchie as a Crab or, failing that, Discoback.

None of the locations have any relevance because no time whatsoever was spent placing them relative to each other.

98% of the map is just filler.

>>54849028
Now you really sound like a newfag. The Battletech Map from 1985 is the same one from 2017 except for the borders and the periphery. No magic worlds. A few that got killed in the Jihad but nothing springing up out of nowhere.

>>54849041
Naw, fuck that, you can't even give a list of mech factories. And even if you could, they would be scattered all over hell and have no logistical relevance whatsoever.

>>54849060
I can't homebrew fits. They have to come from the TRO's and have a premade Record Sheet because the organizer doesn't want any 'weird shit' going on.

It would be nice if there was a good resource (even if ~5% wrong) of worlds with active factories by ERA (not year, 'cause tracking that would suck), if for no other reason than the fact that your Mech needs to be present at a Mech factory for a Class E or F Refit/Customization. It's required by the rules, but there's no ready resource available to help you actually tell whether or not you're in the right place.

>>54849098

What I'm saying, anon, is that if you want two 25-tonners, a 50-tonner, and a 55-tonner for a competitive campaign you've fucked up right out of the gate.

What you really want is probably two Wolfhounds and two Wolverine-Ms.

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>>54849077
>they would be scattered all over hell and have no logistical relevance whatsoever

Except they're all important worlds. Most on capital worlds of some sort. March capitals, Military District capitals, State capitals and those that are known as industrial supercomplexes.

>>54849098
And then they get mad when you tell them their designs are terrible.

>>54849160
See? That list is an absolute cluster fuck. I'm talking about what >>54849136 anon is talking about.

>>54848990
2 Spiders, 2 Griffins, hold the mayo.

Era> World> # of factories> what the factory produces

>>54848740
Just remembering that, holy shit, House Liao had native Atlas production once upon a time.

>>54848773
Agreed.

>>54848882
"Relevant" does not automatically mean "well documented." See >>54848845.

>>54848892
Then there's Marshigama's Legionaires, a ten-'Mech company whose "primary" 'Mechs are their Goliath (they only have one) and Scorpion (they only have one).

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>>54849182
Yeah, not like there's a location tab on the sheet for an easy summary or anything.

>>54849214
If you have time, you can include dates, but i'm not here to earn a phd in battletech.

>>54849224
Well that list is quite a bit more useful, don't you think? Probably more useful than a list of locations.

>>54844218
Locust - Bergan (Ares)
Crusader - Kallon (Asuncion, Bernardo, both lost to FWL during 3rd and 1st War respectively)
Clint - Andoran (Bell, destroyed late 1SW)
Cataphract - various depending on source, introduced 3rd War
Grasshopper - Lantren (Bryant, destroyed 2nd War)
Vindicator - Ceres (Capella, St. Ives, introduced early 2nd War)
Atlas, Victor - unknown manufacturer (Carver V, lost for a few years to FWL mid 3rd War, destroyed 2953)
BattleMaster, Catapult - Hollis (Corey, destroyed 1st War)
Stinger - Earthwerks (Grand Base)
Rifleman - Kallon (Nanking, XTRO Primitives 4 has Kallon building Riflemen at multiple facilities but doesn't name them, so there could be others lost to the Succession Wars)
Trebuchet - Corean (Ramen II, lost to FWL 1st War, factory later destroyed 2845)
Hermes, Wasp - Irian (Shiro III, lost to FWL 3rd War, Hermes production would have been halted sometime during the 1st or 2nd War)
Raven - Hellespont (Sian, introduced 3rd War)
Pillager, Victor - HildCo (St. Ives, Pillager discontinued 2nd War)
Victor - Tao MechWorks (Styk, extremely limited sources to back this up)
Griffin, Thug, Thunderbolt, Koschei - Earthwerks (Tikinov, Thug and Koschei discontinued, probably 1st War)

>>54849138
>>54849186
Okay, so let me explain myself a bit better.

This is my chance to take my three favorite Mechs into a campaign without worrying about being steam rolled by post-Dark Age chassis. I fully plan on taking 2 Commandos, 1 Hunchback and 1 Dervish. Normally I field 1 COM-7B, 1 COM-4H, 1 HBK-5SG and 1 DV-9D. However, none of these designs are available in the campaign. So I would like to know what are the best builds for Succession Wars designs of those three Mechs. Command, Hunchback and Dervish.

I play for fun. I don't play to win. This campaign costs nothing to join and I don't have to pay to play the games. It's something that my FLGS is doing to promote Battletech a bit more and get other people interested. The only time I don't enjoy a game when I lose is when it is so one sided that I lost the battle before I even placed my Mechs on the board.

>>54849255
One tells you exactly who made something where and when and what book told you so. The other is just a generic summary. When people get in arguments about specifics like dates and death of factory lines, the first page is the most useful. The second is just a general lookover for flavor.

"Oh yeah, the Davions stopped producing the Dervish to make the Hellspawn for awhile." Kind of overview.

>>54848950
Pity the articles aren't organized around the real world chronology (like, this is what book X says, this is what book Y says) instead of around in-universe chronology (in 3050, book X and Y say this is what canonically happened, in 3090 book X and Z say this).

>>54849263
yeah, now plot those on a map.
What does it look like?
A complete clusterfuck.

You have factories on the border, factories near core worlds, factories near the chaos march, factories all over with not a single thought given to their placement or strategic importance.

>>54849305
Are you seriously bitching about factory worlds being in old Terran Hegemony space? What the hell do you think the Houses were carving the place up for, vacation homes?

All I really want is a list of worlds that have or have had factories on them sorted by era. All other information is extraneous.

>>54849279

If it is being run at an FLGS I would expect the other players to come with competitive forces.

The odds of you losing before play gets started are high.

But if you really want to use those, COM-2D, DV-6M, HBK-4P.

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>>54848565
Right you are, well spotted.

>>54848973
>if the list is exhaustive enough to require spreadsheets and excel, then its really just fiat.
I don't think that follows.

>The designers put things where they are convenient and logistics have no relevance whatsoever on the outcome of the battles.
>Its like trying to count how many starfighters the Empire has in Star Wars, its completely pointless.
BattleTech is, fundamentally, a story about manufacturing capacity and logistics. Star Wars isn't.

>>54849363
I'm not expecting it to be all that competitive. Maybe 2 or 3 people, yeah. But most of the campaign sign ups are from people who are entirely new to Battletech. Which is good. Means the group is growing from 6 regular players to potentially 12 if the new guys stay. I'm always excited to see new people show interests in one of my hobbies.

>>54849352
this seems like it should be easy to do.

>>54849426
so if a world has a mech factory on it during that era, it goes on the list. doesn't matter what it builds, doesn't matter if it was destroyed or captured, just a list of worlds that have or have had mech factories on them during that era.

>>54849426
Kinda. Would require a lot of hunting because you have to take into account dead factory worlds as well as new special project stuff that popped up, all the ammunition, industrial, vehicle and aero places too.

The list itself wouldn't be super long, but you'd have to dig through everything between the Age of War and the Dark Age to make sure you got them all. Lotta time doing that, especially for worlds that only make one thing and only for awhile, like some of the periphery pirates.

>>54849263
>Trebuchet - Corean (Ramen II, lost to FWL 1st War, factory later destroyed 2845)
Ramen II should also produce the Centurion.

>>54849541
No, just mechs. Only mech factories. One era at a time. It doesn't have to be a complete list, either, just so long as it shows where most of them are.

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>>54849496

If I was going to do that data entry, I'd just put every factory I could find on the list. It'd be easier in the long run. Something like pic related (note that the sheets are separated by era).

>>54849546
Correct, had the filter set to CapCon and none of those references mentioned the Centurion, so I missed it. CC/FWL border is like that for the 1st and 2nd War periods, Cappies kept losing systems.

Where factory?
Luthien.
How many?
3.

>>54849623
FWL always took the biggest chunk out of the Confederation. Andurien itself is almost all old Cap worlds.

>>54849617

Get rid of the Unit listing (but not the unit type) and that would be exactly what I have in mind.

>>54849617
Or you could just leave the unit listing blank.

>>54849593
If you want factory lists for 3067, go into the mediafire in the OP and find the House HANDbooks from the late 2000s and early 2010s. They should be 90% accurate for whatever it is you're on about. If you want 3025, same deal, but look for 1980s House SOURCEbooks. For 3090ish I think, same deal, but look for the "Objectives" minipdfs.

>>54849670

I get you. Were I to suffer a fit of madness and undertake such a project, I'd put a big note that not all variants and chassis will be listed, so be happy with the ones included. I can live with the list being short of perfection, but not including data when *some* of the relevant data is out there and available to be transcribed just seems wrong.

How bout like this?

Name of World
Factory Type
Factory Name

>>54849731
Sounds like you're off to a good start. Let us know how it goes.

>>54849716
Well, that's how taxonomy works, you start at the top and work your way down.

>>54845047
When a weapon is about as destructive as nuke if not more then common sense would indicate that getting nuked would be good short hand.

Hell asteroid bombing even has it's own nasty after effects that fuck up even more people than the original asteroid did.

>>54849842
Nukes render cities uninhabitable.

Asteroids make biospheres uninhabitable.

>>54847362
The Champion is kinda made out of tinfoil or atleast that's my opinion of them, but Veteran pilot with 4/4 skills can make it work linut that is true to most mechs.

I would say put your ex-Warhammer pilot into the Wolverine, it's suprisingly decent machine and the movement with 5/8/5 is good as you have Griffins and other mediums with same profile.

VTOL can be useful and the fact you got the missile variant makes it doubly so, just use it full movement and hang back at the LRM range most of the match and most stuff on the field will have hard time hitting it.

You can add reinforcements before the game start and if you right click on them on the deployment screen them you can even make them come earlier than what the game itself suggests. That's what I do when I see the AI bringing stuff like company of heavy mechs vs my lights and mediums.

About the pilots killed, you could buy a platoon of infrantry and they have this special rule in the AtB Rules that once a week they can save a killed pilot if they don't do anything else during that time.

>>54848833
Xing Sheng magic, I repeat Xing Sheng magic, where everything Cappies do even their shit is is made out gold and superiority.

>>54850234
>Xin Sheng
Ugh

Stupid question, are all pulse lasers considered anti-infantry weapons, or just the micro and small pulse lasers?

>>54850422
Just the micro and small pulse. Medium and large pulse lasers do a few points more damage to infantry than standard versions, but small and micro do 2d6.

>>54850326
By they how long did the Xin Sheng actually run, or was really going on through the whole rule of Sun Tzu Liao ?

>>54850513

The actual Xin Sheng period is probably only like 3058-3062 or so but the term gets used to cover any time the CC is magically better than everyone else or other plotlines serve to benefit it from when Sun-Tzu takes over until the current plot year.

>>54850895
Xin Sheng officially started in 3053 with the reorganization of the military. We don't see the physical results of that until around 3057 and Guerrero. Even in 3055'ish material, the Confederation is seen as recovering but no real magic. It takes the MAC to fund restoring the Emperor mech line and so on. When you really see it spool up is Double Blind where he triple checkmates that multisided conflict after spending most of 3058 fucking around in the FWL Periphery five hundred light years from home romancing an amazon space princess. And of course had zero problems when he got back home. Not like he had any gains to consolodate from Guerrerro or a state to rule or anything.The civilian end of Xin Sheng got rolling around 3060 and the Caps were in full getting surgery for squinty eyes mode by 3067.

Xin Sheng is actually a term for all Sunny based magic and chinkification of the realm, the programs and reforms itself, like if Teddy had some catchy name for all the stuff he did for the Combine military. It's not an actual military campaign or proper time period.

So people rightfully keep calling stuff Xin Sheng when you see silly chinese names for no reason or plot magic. Even the people that say it's only valid until Sunny died probably forgot that Sunny isn't dead, just a popsicle like Stone was.

>>54845625

Surrender to the FedRats in return for a comfy position on the ruling council and a princely title. Then marry one of my progeny to the first Steiner-Davion helllspawn of Hanse and form house Steiner-Liao-Davion. Eventually my issue can manage into a position when they can unite the inner sphere and drop all the extra names around Liao.

Capellan space will be the fulcrum the inner sphere turns around.

>>54852208
>House Steiner-Davion-Liao

I bet Hanse would be turning in his grave so fast that the NAIS could use him as a power source.

>>54852590
I don't think they have the technology to tap that safely

>marry a Steiner-Liao-Davion to a Marik and form the house of Steiner-Liao-Marik-Davion
>somehow acquire some minor Kurita and integrate its blood into the line
>House Steiner-Liao-Kurita-Marik-Davion a go, time to get a fully legitimate First Lord
>maybe form the whole thing from Candace's sons and get House Steiner-Allard-Liao-Kurita-Marik-Davion
>at this point might as well add random nobilityand peripheries to the mix, House Steiner-Allard-Liao-Kurita-Marik-Davion-Hasek-Sandoval-Centrella-Calderon-Avellar-O'Reilly
>the Star League can now just invade the clans and reave down bloodnames to a single bloodright to be claimed for merger with the Ultimate Noble
>enter House Steiner-Allard-Liao-Kurita-Marik-Davion-Hasek-Sandoval-Centrella-Calderon-Avellar-O'Reilly-Kerensky-Pryde-798other names

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i'll just leave this here...

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>>54853011
Not sure why I saw it on facebook, first.
Still, curious about the contents of the Battletech boxes.

Also, has Shadowrun Crossfire been successful, and if so, when can I get my spiritual successor to the Battletech CCG?

>>54853029
Same here. They might just be mock-ups, but it is nice to see they are planning them and working on them. We will see in six to twelve months...

>>54848892
Marik was the least flaky. Davion only gave production levels for 3 or 4 mechs, and Steiner didn't give any IIRC.

>>54850172
Saving a killed pilot?

How do?

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Has there been any notable progress with the Battletech Game by HBS?

>>54853952
Nope

>>54853897
In AtB rules the Campaign System tab there is stuff about infrantry and in the Support Operations there is Search and Rescue, which states that once per week a dead mechwarrior is instead wounded

>>54854083
If you have mechanised or motorised infrantry

>>54853029
>Still, curious about the contents of the Battletech boxes.

From Ray on Facebook:

these boxes will have completely *brand new* sculpts. Some prototypes will be on display with the boxes at GenCon. Some you've seen displayed in the recent past, such as the Locust, Griffin, etc. Some will be repeats from the old box, but all are brand new sculpts.

These aren't reboxed products, but two completely new boxes.

>>54839358
>that chinese specops spot that's just lots of /fit/ women with guns and barely any clothes pressing their high heels into dude's faces

Commies don't really get fetishes yet, it seems.

>>54853029
It wasn't perfect but compared to many of the CCGs that came out at the time (or since, frankly), it was damn good. I don't want to seem like I'm making the claim that Richard Garfield is the only person who knows how to design CCGs or anything, but as the person who basically pioneered the medium, he was definitely way ahead of the curve on what made a good game while most everyone else was playing catch up.

>>54839358
>>54839394
How about Death-by-face-sitting Commandos?

>>54853976
Oh you work there?

>>54855455
Nope but I can't see any real progress from a public perspective soo...

>>54855550
Public perception tends to be 50% chillingly, cut-through-the-bullshit inciteful, and 50% head-up-to-the-shoulders up its own asshole full on retard.

I don't like those odds.

>>54854144
You mean to tell me they wasted time and more importantly money, re-sculpting a bunch of plastic minis AGAIN, instead of getting this shit-heap rolling forward again?

>>54855598
Well for whatever it's worth their backer updates haven't been much more than the general "We're still alive" updates.

>>54856137

They were probably going back to the really old lineup with Unseen and got fucked by the HG lawsuit.

>>54856181
>>54855598

HG lawsuit has probably fucked their plans too. Now they need to figure out what to do about their lineup suddenly getting shredded and how to handle it from a PR perspective. The grogs will *not* be happy to be losing those and they'll need to figure out the best way to massage the backers into accepting delays while they sort out replacements.

>>54856488
What are you talking about? There's a whopping TWO mechs that HBS can't put in the game. Big deal.

Im cool with xing sheng, no more unbelievable than fedcom koombaya shit. Let factions have their moment...cept the hell horses, they need to get btfo of the sphere again.

Mech-wise and regiment-wise who is more fun to play as, Liao or Steiner?

>>54857515
It depends how you want to play.

>>54850172
>>54847362
Good note on the recovery crew, will get one.

So I bought a vet 2/4 mech pilot in another warhammer from the market.

This leads me into asking about refits. I was sick of the warhammer overheating so I refit it to the version with double heat sinks and ferro armor, but no endo steel. Then I modded it to take out the second PPC and add 2xLRM5s(reduce heat and add some anti tank). Also stripped out the artimis, machine guns and small lasers and added a bit more armor and another heat sink. Is this busted? I haven't taken it into the field.

Also I modded the helo to strip out the SRM 6 (do SRMs actually suck? They seem meh to me) and turned the LRM10 into 3or4xLRM 5s. Is this also busted? It seemed like the srm was going to call for short ranged engagments that would fuck the helos shit.

Is there a good limit for meklab refits? I am trying to keep it to D mantanance class refits...

Also I keep getting free small vehichles. I think they might be from civilian missions? Anyway I now have 2x flatbed trucks I refit to the LRM10 model. Seem sweet but crew intensive. Worth? Almost want to send them with the scouts as fire support.

Also is it worth getting some power armor infantry? Are they usefull?

>>54857515
Steiner means having more gauss rifles than the other guy. Liao means huge investments in singular few stealth-armored units, some strong TSM strikers, and more arrow IV than most groupings.

I personally loved playing a nearly 5000 bv Pillager with a highly experienced pilot. It wasn't an "I win" button like clan assaults, but it was incredibly exciting.

>>54856997
Not if HG wins the rights to the locust, shad, and atlas. Also they probably don't want to move forward while the suit is ongoing because they don't want to invite trouble.

Besides we all know the only two mechs grogs care about are the whammy and the archer.

>>54858140
Please elaborate on that pillager.

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>>54858497
It was on Mekwars Legends, back in the day. Pillager 5Z, combining gauss rifles, erppc, stealth armor, jump jets and TSM, then amplified with an elite pilot - I had captured and turned a goddamn Manei Domini pilot in earlier battles, and then leveled him further to the point where he had roughly 3/3 or 3/2 stats, and I think 3 points of edge, plus several special abilities.

I named him Charles Barkley, and whenever I took him to battle, I would play non-stop slam jam playlists on my headphones.

>>54858338
>Besides we all know the only two mechs grogs care about are the whammy and the archer.

You misspelled Marauder.

>>54858913
Marauder

Please no. I really don't want to lose my favourite mech.
Sorry Enforcer

>>54858913
Yeah that too. Misremembered which mechs were in the game and which weren't. Still two of the best mechs might have to be replaced.

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>>54859007
Aaaand that's enough doom and gloom for one day. Let's all support HBS any way we can and hope for the best, all this negative speculation will just depress us.

ANYWAY! Some of you are probably aware that a few artists on the 'net who liked to draw stuff for Battletech have disappeared. Well, back in 2015 I managed to discover what happened to several of them.

Apparently they had been hired by Stompy Bot Productions - formerly MekTek - to work on Heavy Gear Assault. Among these artists was Simplejay, aka Insidious, who drew the 'mech in the image. Called the Spitfire, it's supposed to be a 60 ton IS heavy, and he may have sold the image rights to Reaper miniatures, who later started producing a model that looks nearly identical. He also drew the Yeoman, which was basically a walking boombox, only instead of speakers it had enormous missile tubes.

Just thought you all would like to know.

>>54858618
You had fun and that is the important thing, but you're a sue for turning an MD.

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>>54861440
It was all the result of random number generators. The server ran the same algorithm on all pilots after their side being defeated in battle, and a small chance included the pilot turning and joining the capturer's cause. I got to be the lucky ass. Again.

>>54862090

Don't the MD have suicide implants that go off if they're captured or their cybernetics are tampered with though?

This is of course leaving aside how fanatical and deranged they are...

>>54862282
Yeah, MD are the definitive popcorn troopers. The MekWars simulation didn't go as far as that in enacting the fine details of the system.

50 Ton Clan (mostly) Mech
169 points of FF armor
Endosteel
XL Engine 6/9/6
Tarcomp
Watchdog unit
ERPPC + PPC capacitor
x2 MPL
X2 ERML
Flamer
micro pulse laser
TSM
12 DHS

Thoughts?

>>54858338
There is no way that part of the suit will hold water. It's just legal bluster to inflate the case. HG claiming locust, shadowhawk and atlas is rediculous and anyone who can tell their ass form their head should be able to see that.

It would be a very serious, very grim day for artists of all walks of life if HG won that arguement, because it basically fucks over anyone ever who draws robots. Or anything, really, because it would basically become 'that thing has scales, they are ripping off the dragons we draw 25 years ago!"

>>54862785
>HG claiming locust, shadowhawk and atlas is rediculous and anyone who can tell their ass form their head should be able to see that.

Remember this is the US court system you're describing.

>>54862573
Capacitor on a cerppc is just an unneeded burden. You will want to be firing it every turn forever.

>>54862810
The US court system uses a litmus test system for things like that.
And the litmus is "Would an average person believe that these two things are the same and from the same source if they were shown side by side?"

>>54862885
>And the litmus is "Would an average person believe that these two things are the same and from the same source if they were shown side by side?"

Now think about how smart the "average" person is.

They're going to see a giant robot with 2 arms, 2 legs, some guns, and a head. That's it. HG will win, because people are dumb.

>>54862927

I don't think it's necessarily that bad. It's just a negotiating tactic because HG likes to settle out of court as much as possible. It's like the opening bid when you try to haggle; the seller goes as high as they think they can get away with, the buyer lowballs, they meet in the middle. All they're really interested in is protecting the Robotech/Macross IP.

*Maybe* they want to nail Jordan's ass to the wall for his continuing role in all this bullshit but that's as far as I can readily imagine them going. And DESU, they've got a pretty good legal argument in favour of that given his involvement in all this. CGL did what they wanted so HG seems to have moved on.

>>54862817

With just one, basically this. If you have two or more they get interesting.

Rotary gauss rifles when?

>>54863234
Rotary LBX when?

>>54863234

Already exist, anon.

HAGs.

>>54863370
Rotary Ultra LB-40X HAG when?

>>54863398

>RISC Item
>Blows up for 500 damage if you roll less than an 11 to-hit
>Does 48 heat and hits for 6 rolls on the 40 chart

>>54863447
I will mount a mech to this. The mech will be an accessory to the gun.

>>54863447
Worth it as a field gun

Anons, I'd like people to fill out this poll, because I'd be fascinated to see how /btg/ falls on this particular set of questions.

http://www.strawpoll.me/13700822

>>54864077
>http://www.strawpoll.me/13700822
40+ hours here, mostly with some friends but also at cons. Never on MegaMek though, always in person. Don't know about the CapCon dinnerware though.

>>54864104
Technically that's 100+, but mainly for anyone crazy enough to actually run a Sphere wide invasion.

>>54864077
Also, if you've played a lot of AtB, but not against another person, I forgot to add that specific option. Feel free to vote on the "Less than two hours" option if you do so.

>>54864077
Invasion Maps. You know you've fallen in the deep end when you know the shipping times for Wasp parts from Shiro III to anywhere in Oriente.

>>54864077
>>54864160
Easily 50+ hours of tabletop in Highschool and 240+ hours of MegaMek since it's inception.

>>54864160
>>54864438
total time in ATB is more like 40 minutes of "and why the fuck do I want to bother with this?"

I don't LIKE the mechs Battletech forces you to use. They LOOK cool, but they are god awful from an in game perspective.

It is so fucking autistic to include rules for customization then not allow players to use them.

>>54864438
Scratch 240+, my autism just kicked in.

Say I've averaged 5 hours a week of MegaMek in the 17 years that MegaMek has been out. Some weeks would have been 0, but I've definitely had entire weekends, or multi-day binges when unemployed where I played all day.

5 hrs a day for 17 years of megamek gets me over 4,400 hours of megamek. Even if we say an average 5 hours a week is out of the question, and chop it in half, that's still quite a bit wouldn't you say?

>>54864077

Like, just this year? Or ever?

If it's ever, then I feel the necessity of 1000+ hour and 2500+ hour choices. Bare absolute minimum, I've got ~100 hours a year since I started (low totals in 1986-90 are balanced out by later years). Multiply that out by 30 years...

>>54864750
Why can't battletech just use the rules for ghost heat that MWO uses?

>>54864797
Is this bait?

>>54864750
Use them how and where, is the question.

At a tournament event, or other official game? Munchkin shit aside, You'd waste SO much time dealing with vetting everyone's sheets before you could begin. Non-starter.

In a campaign? There's no rule says that you can't. That's your GM's call, not CGL's. Don't like the call? find a different GM.

In a pick-up game? The people you're playing with either do or don't agree with the practice, and your beef is with them.

It's the community, mostly, that's retarded about customs/customization, not the company.

>>54864750
>>54864797

Jesus dude, you were bitching about factories and shit yesterday and sounding just as retarded. Just read the damn books and rules before you start posting this mindless nonsense.

>>54864839
yeah, but there is no way to get your design vetted so that you can use it in a tournament EVER, so the rules are pointless from a competitive standpoint.

It wouldn't be so bad if the mechs loadouts weren't so random and fucking terrible.

>>54864792
Total. I'd add larger size pools, but I don't want to use the absurd amount of playtime that some of the veterans have as a measuring stick, or else the people who don't play as much would fit into an incredibly small sample size.

>>54864873
>competitive standpoint.

Battletech is not a game strenuously balanced for fair competition, and that's without the issue of people minmaxing their designs themselves.

>>54864873
There aren't any design or art contests, tournament winners don't get to make their own mechs or even refits, you're stuck using bogus units with no heat cycling, terrible tonnage/damage ratios, mechs that overheat, mechs that have 390 or 400 engines, the list goes on and on.

There are only a handful of mechs that don't have some critical design flaw.

>>54864452
Man, some people are wired diffrent I guess. I looked at AtB, and saw context for a wargame. I may never play anything else again.

>>54865085
I want to enjoy it, but I'm utter shit at it. But I'm bad at Battletech so that's not really a surprise. Also fuck pursuit/escape missions or whatever they're called. Bane of my existence. I should really dust it off and give it another shot though.

>>54864929
Kind of like real-life military machines. Odd, that. Still, I get the gripe and you'd think there'd be a bit more attention to detail, especially in post-SW units, and making sure they are much higher quality since scarcity is no longer a concern. Honestly I think the older machines function like they do because the OG FASA folks liked their subpar, quirky performance. People still do, truth be told.

>>54865085
Well, I should say it's MekHQ that I feel straightjacketed by. Smashing robots together is more fun for me than tracking every last bean, bolt and bullet.

>>54865151
The canon mechs are deliberately built to be interesting instead of optimized. It's a purpose top down decision since the 80's. Occasionally they'll put a cheese machine like the Hellstar out to show they can, but if every mech was optimized by weight and weapons, we'd only have like twenty different mechs. And that's fucking boring from both a fluff and gameplay perspective.

Kinda like how you have only one or two decks that are winners in a CCG, and that only changes when you shake it up with an expansion or something so you get a new one or two deck winner.

>>54865263
Well since I'm one of those people who like the quirky, subpar performance of said machines, you're preaching to the choir. I just also happen to understand and empathize with people who would rather see more optimized 'Mechs.

>>54837833
I want a simplified system so I can play Mechwarrior and not have to stop everything for a 4 hour Battletech match.

>>54865439
>>54865263

I just want them to be fit for their stated purpose.

So the Quikdraw is a replacement for an AA 'Mech? Fucking how?

Or the Wolfhound is built to beat the Panther, so far so good. Then the Wolf Trap is built to beat the Wolfhound, fucking how? And literally what is the fucking point when the Centurion is the next page over?

>>54858007
>Refits.

It's your mech, you can do whatever you want with it, , I would recommend reading Sarna.net the mech you are about to refit in to see if there is variant that can do the same as you refit. Artemis actually helps out with LRMs aswell so you want to keep that and buy those LRMs some Artemis ammo. Otherwise I would say leave Small Lasers, they are still 3 points of damage per laser and weight about 0,5 tons, so you are not getting that much out of by removing them. SRMs don't really suck they have sama range as medium lasers. What lack in compared to the ML is pinpoint damage as usually they tend to hit all over the enemy mech, but that's good thing sometimes as head is valid target in that scattering. and getting enemy to make a Pilot Skill Rolls is allways a good thing.

But for a VTOL, I noticed myself that I rarely used the SRMs on them and going for the LRMs mostly so there.

>Small vehicles
They are indeed prizes you get from some missions, especially anything involving civilians.
There is usually line in the mission description about winning the mission and getting rewards.
Unfortunatly the Flatbed Trucks are kinda garbage,sure they have LRM10 but they are also either hover or wheeled which means they can't go into even light forests and shitty armor. Good news is that they are worth 40-50k Cbills when sold so that should cover some of your maintenace for actual military hardware.

Civilian mechs are the real reward. Some of them are primitive versions of Battlemechs so you can refit them to better form, mind you that requires a factory refit, so you want do that between contracts. And if you can't refit them to better variant, you still get 1-2 million Cbills out of them.

>Battle Armor

Depends on the type, Clan Elemental Armor is downright nasty from my experience fighting against them, haven't tried IS ones so can't commewnt on them.

>>54865151
I don't think thats true.

I think everybody starts off playing battletech thinking they are going to get to design their own mechs, then being forced to use bog standard shitware and cannon models.

>>54865910
I mean, I get having design and hardpoint restrictions, to me thats fine, it cuts down on the cheese. But telling people they can't use one of the design features of the game in competitive play is a bait and switch.

>>54865934

If being forced to play sub-optimal units triggers you this hard, just go FedSuns for your faction.

>>54865574
Easy answer is that the Dracs don't make the Centurion, so getting a 'Mech that's similar is fine. I mean what's the point of building your own domestically-made MBT nowadays when you can just buy one from someone else that makes essentially what you'd build if you were so inclined, right?

>>54865910
I think you're trolling, but that's just like, my opinion man. You know you're not going to change anyone's mind, and if you truly think this way, I'm not going to change yours, so why bother even discussing it?

>>54865934
I mean, say you just limited mechs to class C custom refits during tournament play. That would be fucking huge! Suddenly your not stuck with garbage like IS MPL's, MRM's and 1-2 extra tons of extra ammo for each weapon.

So the group consensus is that "I like playing mechs that suck."

Gotchya. Glad I'm not part of your community.

>>54865968
So what other things do you like?

Punching yourself in the dick?

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Ayo, so some time ago an anon commented that he'd like to see art in these that's more 'realistic' in terms of accuracy and seeming like it'd actually be from Battletech, so I decided to change the FWL wallpaper to this. Even looks a little like their dress uniform if you squint, and it should placate all the folks that were miffed the Burdgurl was a blonde the first time around. Cheers.

>>54865999
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I think the only reason 98% of all mechs are absolute shite is because it gives veterans and conformists an advantage. You are literally trying to push new people out of the hobby.

>>54865968
>>54865574

Also factor in that Wolf Trap is something like 3 movement points faster, in TT terms, than Centurion so it can actually keep up with Wolfhound which incidently has same movement bracket.

Why are your opinions so fucking asinine? You know your video game franchise is literally the only thing holding your table top community together right?

If your not going to let people use the rules for customization, then cut them out of the book.

>>54866056

>that Wolf Trap is something like 3 movement points faster, in TT terms, than Centurion

Literally what the fuck, anon. Both go 6/9. The only meaningful difference between the two is that the Wolf Trap has both lasers to the front while the Centurion has one to the rear.

>>54865968

>so getting a 'Mech that's similar is fine.

Just have them import it from the Suns or refitting captured ones from centuries of war then. 'Mechs that derpily similar to each other are pointless, if they really want to give one faction the same gear they can do it easily.

The other problem is that with the Grand Dragon also going at 6/9 your ability to differentiate from that with an energy refit for the main gun is minimal. Hell, if you go all energy it looks like a Phoenix Hawk.

It could work as a Marik or Cappie machine, just doesn't make sense as published for the Dracs.

>>54865990

It would also require the tournament runner to vet every sheet before every game to ensure someone isn't doing shit like adding extra armour, HS, guns, CASE, or whatever to their ride.

>>54865999

Is this Vroom Vroom? I feel like this is Vroom Vroom.

>>54866133

>If your not going to let people use the rules for customization, then cut them out of the book.

They did though.

Years and years ago.

>>54866133
Let them be anon, they're old and bitter and it's all they have of a game they once loved. It's a thin line between love and hate and sometimes people don't realise they've crossed it.

>>54866390
so this... is the true power of samefagging

>>54866390
Or maybe a whiny bitch complaining about competitive play when there's only two actual real tournaments that matter a year, the Bloodname and the Big Event at Gencon is just laughable. And everyone has seen this optimization junk before a million times. It's typical newfag training wheels time.

Most people who run tournaments can do what they want. And they don't allow customs because it's a logistic slog and because the people who demand it are usually autistic newfags like him.

Battletech is a historical wargame set in the far future of the space 80's. Always has been. Throwing a tantrum about tournament play like it's any kind of important aspect of the game is just ludicrous.

I mean look at the guy. He obviously just started things, is still fucking around in the Succession Wars, is angry that there's so much material and just calls it all pointless because he wants to play munchtech tournament instead of typical Battletech. Which he can play what he likes, but he's not selling any regulars on that. That kind of shit is not why people stick around the franchise for years on end.

>>54866242
Ah remembered the Centurions movement profile wrong my mistake, thought it was slower than that,

>>54866957
And it's 9A variants are 4/6, but not from 9D forwards it's 6/9. In my defense I have only used As and not the later ones.

Also about Wolftrap, lorewise it fell out production relatively fast, something like 10 years so I would say someone else also made the same call that they had Centurions allready that where fast enough to chase Wolfhounds and Wolftrap was not needed.

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>>54867059

Fluff-wise, they were mad that it failed in its mission to kill enemy Wolfhounds and consigned it to the bin.

The only way I can build something at 45 tons with a reasonable chance of ganking the Wolfhound is something like this. You could strip some MLs for JJs (or swap the BAP for GECM) but otherwise it looks too much like a Grand Dragon or Phoenix Hawk.

>>54865681
Mostly I am worried about breaking things. I really like searching the marketplace for just the right thing. I dunno.

I stripped out the artimis because space and weight. Also ackward ammo tracking. I like keeping the weapons standardized. Also the lrms are mainly anti vehichle, were I mostly want the hits... really the space is tight. Like to add pack the SLs aould mean shedding armor... or bigger guns... or a heatsink... when I get home I will upload a full record sheet.

>>54862927
Pretty sure your trolling.

>>54867204
I wish he was. He's not wrong about the average person. Have you never worked retail or customer service?

>>54867148
yeah I can understand that, especially with Warhammer, most variants of it seem to be quite lightly armored for a 75 ton mech.

>>54867302
Yeah, and for a 70 ton 'Mech too.

>>54867498
Purple burd wonk(ey)

>>54867114
That build exchanges the range advantage of the Wolf Trap for more direct firepower in the Wolfhound's own range bracket.

How about keeping the LB10X, dropping the LRM, and supporting the big gun with 2-4 ERML and a bit more armor?

>>54867864

The stock Wolf Trap only has a marginal range advantage over the Wolfhound, since it pits scattering weapons with either two extra hexes (the LRM) or one less (the LB-X) at the same speed and without full armour.

IME, the Wolfhound's more concentrated damage and lack of ammo worries plus lack of an XL means it will actually and regularly out-fight the Wolf Trap.

At least this way you get 4 extra hexes, full armour, and additional speed. Plus the C3 and EW gear.

Basically everything the Wolfhound can do, my rebuild can do better. Which in a design intended to be the hard counter for an enemy machine is exactly what you want.

>>54867978
God, it's too early for me. Totally overlooked the speed buff. I can see what you're getting at now, a 'mech that can outsnipe, outrun, and outbrawl the Wolfhound. Would make for a nasty Elemental hunter too.

New Thread time...
>>54868612

>>54864077
I think I've broken 1000 games by now. 40 hours is a good start - with the same players 'round the table, 40 hours will afford basic rule competence for the whole crew.

>>54866021
It's alright. Blondie was fine.