/osr/ Old School Revival Kobold Edition

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Draconian, for sure. Gnolls take the 'humanoid canine monster' niche in my games.

I believe you can thank Pathfinder for turning Kobolds into little dragon men.

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>>54750762
They were like that in at least 3rd, but I believe they were Draconic in Baldur's Gate as well.
>>54750708
Goblinoids are Frazetta men in my game, the only thing that really changes is that they get taller and more hirsute. Kobolds are tiny Lizard people and I just sort of expanded Gnoll to mean 'Canine beast guy' as >>54750750 kinda did.

My game is vaguely eastern european and not!Baltic inspired.

>>54750708
Draconian. The old canine bolds get too close to goblins and have little to distinct themselves. At least the dragon thing gives them a bigass napoleon complex to go for.

>>54750762
Kobolds are one of the few things Pathfinder did all right.

>>54750937

How quickly we forget Dragonlance Draconians.

Between Dragon Born and Draconians and lizard-men what niche do draconic Kobolds fill?

>>54751604
Dragonborn and draconians overlap far more than kobolds ever could. If you add one of those races to your games (I personally don't), then kobolds are to them what goblins are to orcs. Lizardfolks, apart from being reptilian, are their own thing: saying all the reptilians are the same would be the same as saying all mammals are the same, and that's ridiculous.

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Still posting my links to the classes I'd like feedback on. It's some new ones I cobbled up in ACKs, and a few modifications of a previous one I did a while back.
https://pastebin.com/r0nWgfXa
https://pastebin.com/16TvLTv3

>/osr/
DEATH TO THE HERETIC THREAD

>>54750708
>Are Kobolds draconian or canine in facial appearance?
Neither, obviously. They're horrible little dwarfs, as the name implies.

Are there any rules that make B/X poison less retardedly overpowered?

>>54752335
Nah but you could easily invent something if you're a wimp. Keep in mind though that a typical blow on level 1 will kill a PC on average, so on level 1 poison is actually weaker than other attacks, in that it grants a save before you die which an ordinary sword chop doesn't.

>>54750708
Draconian, of course

>>54751604
>Between Dragon Born and Draconians and lizard-men what niche do draconic Kobolds fill?
Between goblins, xvarts, orcs, and gnolls, what niche do canine kobolds fill?

>>54750708
>Are Kobolds draconian or canine in facial appearance?
They're dracanine.

>>54752335

Make it deadly but with delay. Im Argentinian and in the north of my country, if you got stinged by a scorpion, better you get that poison neutralized in less than 6 hours. Fucking bugs

But in a game, six hours is a good time for creative thinking. If you dont get the antidote or be magical healed, then you die.

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I'm trying to work on a universal one number magic system for MUs that goes something like this.

Whenever you want to cast a spell, define the effect you want to achieve and then roll a d20 + magic bonus. Your magic bonus improves as you level. If you meet or beat the DC, the spell succeeds.

DC 10
>Curing a very small wound (1 HP), levitating small objects, creating a one second phantom sound, refreshing a spent torch, conjuring a handful of a single element; thrown on someone this deals 1d4+int modifier damage.

DC 15
>Curing a slight wound (2-3 HP), levitate an object of one load, mend a single tear in a simple fabric, make a flare that illuminates a room for 3 combat rounds, conjure a ranged bolt of an elemental dealing 1d6+int mod damage.

20 DC
>Heal a moderate wound (5-6 HP), make an object glow as bright as a candle for one turn, meditate to discover secrets, mark a door or circle or line and creatures of a certain type have to make a save to cross it. Conjure a blast of an element that deals 1d10 damage close range.

etc.

>Rote spells
If you do the same general spell effect 3 times, like turning yourself into an old woman as a disguise, write that down on your character sheet as +1. You get +1 to rolls for that spell, and further research will let you make it a +2 or +3. These spells can be learned from other Wizards spellbooks.

>Draining
Every single time you cast a spell, you get -1 to all future spell rolls until you can return to your tower or temple.

How does this look as a single roll magic system? I attributed most of it from the 'clerics just use turn undead to do everything' idea posted before. I'm also wondering if I should restrict the theme or type of spells that each spellcaster can cast, but at that point it might just be easier to use spells.

>>54750708
I like it Draconish.
But with doggy faces they are more effective. You can't kill that puppie-eyed bastards. Or what kind of monster you are?

What kind of cards could you pull from a Deck of Mangy Things?

>>54753203
1. All clothes you wear become shabby forever
2. Everyone you like gets mange
3. You become king but everyone thinks you're dirty
4. You summon a poorly made mansion, it is yours forever
5. Ghosts of shmuts scare you
6. You fellow players are forced to play a mean trick on you

Kobolds have Canine faces just as Gary intended. This thread is full of younglings that weren't around in the olden days.

>>54753392
t. grognard that can't accept that sometimes new ways have the old ones beat

>>54750750
Gnolls have hyena faces. Hyenas are of the Feliformia Suborder. Thus, hyenas and gnolls are cats.

>>54750937
>canine bolds get too close to goblins
The fuck. Canine goblins?

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>>54753574
Trolls have mossy hides. Moss is of the Plantae Kingdom. Thus, trolls, gnomes, and gnolls are ferns.

>Feliformia
That means cat-like, it doesn't mean cat.

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>>54750708
>Are Kobolds draconian or canine in facial appearance?
"No."

>>54753958
So... they're just goblins?

>>54753978
Kobold is more of a classification than an actual species.

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>>54753958
>kobolds are the ugliest, the least unique version imaginable
No indeed.

>>54754004
For what purpose

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So OSR games are usually based on gritty high fantasy. Then there are some that take those same ideas and put them into science fiction or science fantasy, modern day or cowboy gunslinger dungeon crawling...

What are some other ideas and concepts that could be used for OSR? Any ideas for Super Heroes?

>>54754009
>Hussiefaggot likes fuckable kobold
Not surprised. I bet you do halfass troll "cosplay", too.

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>>54754090
>high fantasy

>>54754090
you're wanting more out of a pretty niche and specific movement than it can provide

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>>54754090
what flavor of super heroes are you looking for?

>>54754232

The actual Heroic kind, not edgy modern day vigilante nonsense. You get 1 xp per innocent person you save.

>>54754090
OSR superheroes would probably end up being not very super at all, like some sort of gruesome gritty-realistic Watchmen/Miller-Daredevil game. Accomplished capes getting beaten to death by some lead-pipe-wielding junkies in an alley due to pure bad luck, constant bitches in fridges and dead sidekicks, infinite slums and crime lords, your main reward is cash. Ultimately you feel like a mobster yourself. It's all a joke. A big joke.

>>54754090
Guardians is the OSR superhero rpg

Is Metamorphosis Alpha (1e preferably) in the trove? I've been looking but can't seem to find it.

>>54754632
Nevermind. I found it under Gamma World supplements (which is a bit backwards).

>>54753958

Actually, that face is vaguely pug-like......

What you can tell me about lamentatios of the flame princess?

>>54755001
Decent system, gory art, a few nice adventures, a couple worthwhile sourcebooks. In all, worth a check.

>>54755001
The replies to >>54728188 will give you a good idea.

>>54753958

Your pic is from AD&D 2nd Edition Monster Compendium Vol I. GTFO. The OPs image is from the original AD&D Monster manual. Retcon much?

For a OSR thread there sure are a lot of Kobold revisionists.

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>using kobolds in the first place

>>54755282
Because my players are all goblinoids and they need something small to krump.

>>54755385
Then have them encounter brownies

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>>54752335
I like Ten Foot Polemic's system. I'd link to it, but pic related. Article's called "De-Fanging Old School Poison" if you want to go find it though.

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>You will NEVER perfect your homebrew

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>>54755282
Kobolds are THE classic "fuck your shit up if you don't make a mad dash down a tube or chute" monster.
Remind: when rearranging dungeon bits, occasionally switch which pitfalls are shortcuts and which are death.

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http://tenfootpolemic.blogspot.com/2016/12/de-fanging-old-school-poison.html

>>54755477
Git gud.

So I understand why people don't use skill checks in OSR games, you're trying to encourage player skills instead of character skill. But what about things that the players have no way of being able to know about? Like lore or knowledge checks?

>>54755494
As long as my group likes it, it's perfect.

>>54755542
If it's reasonable* for them to know it, they know it.
Otherwise, they can throw ludicrous dosh at a sage and come back in 9 months.

*as with everything, higher level dorks get more leeway

>>54755542
Just tell them if you think they should know based on class and level and other factors. If you don't think they should know, then they don't know.

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>>54750708
>Are Kobolds draconian or canine in facial appearance?
A bit of both I guess?

>>54751787
Bump

>>54755528
Huh. I tried like four or five different times to post that.

Probably the problem was that my link had .co.uk instead of .com since that's what I had bookmarked.

>>54755564
>>54755580

If you're going to arbitrate it so freely, then why not just have them make a roll for it? With a bonus based on their MUs level?

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>>54755494
>You're satisfied with everything you homebrew

>>54755542
>what about things that the players have no way of being able to know about? Like lore or knowledge checks?
Class factors, level factors, stated background factors, INT check in a pinch if I can't decide.

>>54755868
Because a lot of people here like 'mother may I' gameplay. There's OSR skill systems out there that let dice arbitrate these things.

>>54755494
Its on sale already. Et tu?

>>54755868
Dice only need to come out when randomizing results actually adds tension or excitement to the game. Knowledge rolls are not exciting.

>>54756194
Or if you're having trouble deciding. Most decisions should only take a split second.

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>>54750708
I like lizardy kobolds but I do have a soft spot for the canine kobolds from the Mystara arcade games. (this is the best I could find of the little guy but its all their poses at least)

>>54756235
I mean yeah. But 'would you reasonably know that' shouldn't be that tricky to adjudicate. In a lot of ways, knowledge is like perception: Don't make them roll it, just tell them everything they need to know because *somebody* is gonna pass so rolling's just busywork.

MageGuru got that dank Kara-Tur Trail Map TM5 up on the Trove now as per my demands. Thanks are given hereby.

In my game, Fighters can do FEATS OF MIGHT which is a roll to do some incredible feat of strength or endurance. Rogues get FEATS OF SKILL which let them perform acts of great coordination and performance in the case of playing music. Technically anyone can do these, it's just that these guys get a bonus based on class.

What should Wizards get? I was asking about knowledge checks for FEATS OF LORE but what else could be used?

>>54756782
Feats of magic to buff up spells you already have. Magic Missle becomes a Kamehameha, Fireball becomes an Inferno Sphere, Levitate becomes Fly, etc.

>>54756782
>>54756819
Just steal the stunts from Flying Swordsmen RPG

>>54756819

Might be interesting? But I kind of want anyone to be able to do it, so maybe it's Amy magic spell or item, like commanding a magic flame to split so you can pass through unharmed, or piloting a magic carpet through a perilous canyon.

So you might add Wisdom or Intelligence modifier to the roll, and MUs get a bonus as they level.

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Despite it's non-relation to OSR, is Warhammer 1e or 2e good? Or is it some bloated thing like 3.x? I like it's aesthetically darker tone.

>>54757372
Its more like brp but better

>>54757372
2e is fine. It's a little clunky, but does the job well enough. To be quite honest, though, I find Zweihander to be a little better overall than it.

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>>54754090

>Post-Apocalyptic
Gamma World
MCC
Ruinations (LotFP hack)
Other Dust
Mutant Future
Crawling Under a Broken Moon (DCC)

>Sci-Fi
Mechanations of the Space Princess (LotFP hack)
Crawljammer (DCC)
Traveller (?)

>Old West
Boot Hill
Black Powder, Black Magic (DCC)

>Greco-Roman
Mazes & Minotaurs

>Cyberpunk
Pink Mohawk (Dungeon World)

>Lovecraftian
Silent Legions
LotFP (to an extent)

>Prehistoric
Wolfpacks & the Winter Snow (LotFP hack)

>>54757372
The Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing Game Second Edition mega-adventure "The Enemy Within" is secretly one of the best "osr" adventures ever made (but /osrg/ doesn't know about it yet).

>>54757645
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enemy_Within_Campaign

The campaign has been widely praised by fans of WFRP, including being voted the best RPG campaign of all time by Casus Belli magazine.

>>54757660
>>54757645

Got a PDF link? I'd love to scope this out.

>>54757788
I dunno where they are at the moment, got them on DC++ back when RPG material was freely shared in hubs. So I don't know where they are on local drive nor on internet. The titles are listed on the Wikipedia link so they should be able to be located.

>>54757660
>voted the best RPG campaign of all time by Casus Belli magazine (edited by François Marcela-Froideval, heir to 1E AD&D® with Mentzer but blocked by Lorraine)
>a good portion written by Carl Sargent of Night Below fame

Fun fact, after Night Below Carl Sargent was hired to run Shadowrun over at FASA and while boarding the plane from Scotland to the US he faked his own disappearance and hasn't been seen since. Got too big.

>>54750708
As someone who first was exposed to D&D through Baldur's Gate, canine. fucking kobold mines.

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>>54754090
look up Hideouts & Hoodlums for a Super Hero OSR game(incidentally it's pretty much the only class based Superhero RPG I've seen which wasn't awful)

also if you want a good semi-modern setting for an OSR game, take a gander at Weird Adventures

>>54758032
That's a rumor, there's also rumors of car accidents and nervous breakdowns. One thing is certain: he sure as shit doesn't want to be found.

>>54758032
>>54758280

I find it hard to believe that anyone is 'too big' in tabletop. It's such a tiny community with so little money flying around.

>>54758376
He's the only person to have been graduated by Cambridge University with a PhD in parapsychology. His research indicates that he had unlocked his own psionic abilities. He's Shadowrun IRL now.

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>>54754112
>fuckable kobold

Projecting much?

Small Brute:
>Goblin
Large Brute:
>Orc, Hobgoblin, Bugbear

Small Dogbeast:
>Kobold
Large Dogbeast:
>Gnoll

Small Reptilian:
>???
Large Reptilian:
>Lizardman

>>54759223

>Small Dog beast
Scamp.

>Small Reptilian
Kobold.

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>>54759223
Muckdwellers.

>>54759434
I want to own one and feed it treats and give it belly rubs

what do you think of cantrips in OSR? you know casting fireball every turn and things like that?

>>54760034
I'm fine with them, at least assuming that any damaging Cantrips are relatively weak in terms of damage output(anything over say 1d4+1 damage is probably too high for an unlimited damage source), also most of the time damaging cantrips should be roll to hit(unless it only does like 1 damage), what makes Magic Missile a good spell isn't it's damage, it's that it auto-hits, so you want to protect that niche it has

>>54760034
I hate 'em a lot and prefer wizards use literal smoke and mirrors, molotov cocktails, poisoned needles, and similar to enhance their tricky dick game, and use regular weaponry to enhance their combat game. Blasting reliable magic rays each and every round, even if they're no more dangerous than a thrown rock, is something I want to see superhero wizards doing, not OSR wizards.

Being able to constantly shit out magic via cantips strikes me as a lazy copout for problem solving and deincentivizes using the environment and stuff rather than being a self-contained do-everything collection of character powers.

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So I'm toying with this idea I'm calling Scrollcasting.

Rather than prepare spells, a character can cast a spell from a scroll a number of times per day. Maybe it's Magic Points, where you spend one to cast from the scroll, maybe it's level, where you can cast a number of spells from the scrolls equal to your level. My hope is that this'll make magic more Dark Souls-y, where you've got a bit of wiggle room in your spell selections, but still have that OSR feeling. I may also be able to remove magic-user as a class entirely, and let people juggle around roles a bit more, via this system.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

>>54752850
Xvarts are just blue dudes, not canine. What did he mean by this?

>>54760436
Obviously it doesn't have to literally be scrolls, but some form of item or equippable that "contains" the spell in some nature. Maybe it's "materia," maybe it's talismans, whatever. Just, you know, to preempt anybody shrieking about scrolls being one-use items or whatever.

>>54755542

Roll against the stat that makes the most sense. INT in this case.

>>54753091
what "problem" does this "solve"?

What's the different (briefly) between 1e and 2e combat? I heard with 1e a person with a dagger can hit twice an enemy attacking with a two-handed sword.

The two ways houserules are discussed in /osrg/:

>anon puts out houserule
>people like it, tell anon that it's got potential
>anon never posts about it again, houserule is forgotten
>two months later, another anon shows up with essentially the same idea
>repeat

or:

>anon puts out houserule
>people don't like it
>anon gets frustrated and asks why they don't like his masterpiece of an idea
>people explain why
>anon never posts about it again, houserule is forgotten
>two months later, another anon shows up with essentially the same idea
>repeat

>>54760034

I like them, but you need to tie them to tools which must be bought, and could be stolen or broken.

Wands can cast weak useful cantrips, like a single hand's labor worth of housework, mending tears in fabric, changing colors, snuffing out and lighting candles, and so on. Magic Wands cost about as much as a good horse.

Magic rods or staves are magic weapons. They cast a single element; fire, ice, lightning, or acid. You add your intelligence to the damage roll. This is basically like a combat cantrips you can shoot blasts, beams, rings, novas and all kinds of stuff, but it drains the item's mana. Costs about as much as a sword.

>>54756782
I'll be honest that reading this it sounds like you don't actually play and this is just something you came up with without testing and uninformed by any experience with other rules.

>>54757560

Dungeon Workd is NOT an OSR game by any measure as it is a storytelling game not a simulationist game like D&D.

>>54759223
Gnolls are hyenas though.

>>54757372
>Despite it's non-relation to OSR, is Warhammer 1e or 2e good?
WHFRP, at least 1e, is the most old-school game that isn't D&D. It's far from unrelated.

>>54757645
>/osrg/ doesn't know about Enemy Within
Please. It's just too plot oriented to really fit.

>>54760034
I found some pretty good rules for cantrips from the Fight On! #1: basically the wizard can cast a much weaker version of any spell he's got memorized, for free and without much limit. Like if you've got Burning Hands or some other fire spell, you could spark up a candle.

>>54760748
I could post my idea about hit points from the last thread again, if it'd satisfy you.

>>54761500
It would, but only if you've made progress on it.

>>54760674

Gives a clear linear progression for Wizards. Makes it easier to use magic then spell preperation and confusing spell slots. Incentives players to think of crazy ass magic effects on the fly since they aren't tied down to spells. It's unique and different.

>>54761853
Any spell thought on the fly by the player to answer a specific situation is less crazy and inventive than trying to solve the situation via ingenious usage of stange and specific spells.

>>54761853
>confusing spell slots
Are you serious? I really can't tell.

You can say a lot of shit about Vancian casting, but it's easily the simplest magic system to grasp. "Here's a list of what spells you can cast, cross them off once you've cast them."

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>>54760436
>>54760480

I personally think it's really cool, almost brilliant in fact. But a couple of things spring to mind.

Firstly, it seems like a good method of facilitating character growth from advancement. In the same way Fighters get all giddy from finding new magic items, Wizards can get super giddy from finding new magic talismans or scrolls or whatever you want to call them.

This also allows Wizards to be disarmed, but one problem with this is the difficulty of finding a replacement. If a Fighter loses their magic sword they can still pick up and fight with a shitty one, but a Wizard couldn't just pick up a stick and use it like a staff. Or maybe they could?

Funny enough I'm actually taking it from the opposite approach you are. I want it for my class based game and might just steal from it.

>>54762209
Feel free!

My current system is designed to emulate Dark Souls as closely as possible, with minimal magical healing available and heavy emphasis on player action and role choices. With that in mind, my current thought is that everybody gets MP/Spell Points/Focus Points/Whatever at a different rate.

Fighters get 1 MP/2 Levels. Rogues get 1 MP/Level. Magic Users get 2 MP/Level. (Clerics aren't accounted, but would go off Rogues to be fair.)

Also, I think this system opens up a neat idea of having swords and shit that has magic that can be called on, thus neatly emulating Dark Souls 3's Skills system, as well as evoking that old-school feel of "my magic sword casts fireball" - it's more interesting than a +1 weapon and it' means players have legitimate choice in what to carry and what to use. The sword might be +1 and flaming, but the hammer casts an earthquake spell when you give it MP and strike the wall.

>>54762851
Furthering this, my current setup is that using a "spell item" costs 1 MP per spell level. This means that Fighting-Men are, ideally, prioritizing buff spells that they can cast and get into fighting with, like Stoneskin and such, while Experts pack a variety of nifty tricks, and Magic Users tend towards blasting. This isn't hard-and-fast, because everybody can juggle spells around, and if the Magic-User needs to carry all the buffs and the Fighter wants to charge in firing Magic Missiles as he runs forward and the Rogue prefers to play an archer-y sort of assassin he can hang back and use stuff like True Strike.

Basically, every class gets different mileage out of different spells, and I think it opens up a lot of tactical options without reducing the Magic-User's niche too much or inherently compromising that Fighting-Men are dudes with swords who fight - yeah, they are, and they're bringing out the inherent magic of their weapons/scrolls/things on top of that. It also makes that gish-y feeling more doable with things like a wizard who wades into melee armed with buff spells and blast spells.

As for your idea, I'd probably not let him just pick up a stick; I'd probably make his spells cost more if he has the wrong "Focus" if you're sticking with traditional D&D roles (i.e. not just anybody can use spells). Alternatively, I'd make it so that the stick had an inherent natural spell of its own, like some druid magic shit he can just pull out of it. Maybe that stick will cast entangle if he spends enough MP. I'd probably jack up the cost for "improvised" magic items regardless, though.

>>54762993
Continuing the "stick" thought, I might even invent some kind of attack spell that the wizard just *has* and can spend MP on at all times, as long as he has anything to function as a focus. Just, like, a 1d6 bolt of energy in exchange for 1 MP - an emergency spell of just venting magical energy through a stick.

That'd cut down on some of the inherent silliness of the stick containing its own magic item and be a nice mid-point between "the wizard is disarmed" and "the wizard has all the spells."

Of course, the idea of somebody disarming *every* spell a wizard is carrying - since every spell is its own individual item - seems kind of edge-case anyway past first level.

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I've been thinking of doing lottery scratch tickets for the players to buy. One ticket would cost a silver piece, after which the players would roll 5d6 for each of their tickets.

>Two of a kind: get their money back
>Three of a kind: sum of all dice in silver pieces
>Four of a kind: sum of all dice in gold pieces
>Full house: 30 gold pieces
>Small straight (four sequential numbers): 40 gold pieces
>Large straight (five sequential numbers): 50 gold pieces
>Yahtzee: 5000 gold pieces

How's that sound? Should I allow them to reroll some dice like Yahtzee does, and if so, only once or do they get to try twice?

>>54762851
>>54762993
>>54763204
Got to say, this is the first time someone's suggested an MP system for OSR games that actually sounded good. Probably helps that it's not born from not understanding Vancian magic. (Or maybe it is, but if so it's at least hidden.)

>>54765202
Ditch two of a kind, maybe three and four as well: it's virtually impossible to lose money with it right now, and very easy to make a winning.

Does 50 dungeon doors, tables and chairs or something like that exist?

>>54760436
>Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?
I agree with this guy: >>54765251, it sounds surprisingly usable. Offhand I think you're going to have to playtest the levels of spells though, I'm not at all sure that it's balanced to cast Meteor Swarm at the cost of nine Magic Missiles or three Fireballs, even if you do have the restriction of needing the appropriate item.

Also, I'm not sure whether you mentioned at any point, but I'd retain the class restrictions on weapon and armor use. That way, you could give the Fighter a magic sword that casts a (say) 5 MP Meteor Swarm without immediately making the Magic-User able to spam it. A fighter would have to be level 20 to use that twice, but an M-U could do it on level 5, so...

>>54765815
>I'm not at all sure that it's balanced to cast Meteor Swarm at the cost of nine Magic Missiles or three Fireballs, even if you do have the restriction of needing the appropriate item.
It'd also take nine whole rounds to cast those Magic Missiles, or three to throw the Fireballs out.

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You guys miss me yet?
http://www.strawpoll.me/13658344

Anyway, I'm back. Jet-lagged as hell. Read so many good books though, and I've got a notebook full of blog post ideas.

Also, some guy named Dave decided to reorganize the layout of TotSK in a much more user-friendly way, so you can expect that to go up soon, once I've finished proofreading it.

>>54765857
>You guys miss me yet?
Who?

Seriously, put on a trip if you're trying to separate yourself from the anonymous masses.

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>>54765857
>it's been 2 weeks already

>>54765846
Exactly. From my point of view, this is the real key to why mana systems are tricky: evaluating spell values so you get something that roughly matches the power of a Vancian Magic-User is brutally hard.

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>>54765873
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYcX534JqG4
It's good to be home.

>>54765902
Give or take. What've you been up to (either in /osr/ or in general)?

>>54765857
>Read so many good books though
Which ones?

>>54765942
There's been a mana system tossed around this thread, the mspaint guy's been refining his GLOG homebrew, another's been trying to make some kind of weird system where the main mechanic is a die assigned by class. Some dudes have been trying to get the g back in the subject

>>54765873
>being this new

>>54765942
We learned how to use vitriol as a bong.

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>>54766137
>We learned how to use vitriol as a bong.
I tried that once. All I got was a stripped lung lining and a wicked high. Left a nice golden crust on everything but that was just the sulphur dropping out of the acid vapors.

..wait, you said "as", not "in", didn't you?

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>>54765857
Did you read Made in Abyss yet?

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>>54765955
>Which ones?
Going to post a review/ramble thing in a bit, but off the top of my head:
-Elanor of Aquitaine, Seward
-Eyrbyggja Saga
-1066 And All That
-Medieval Russian Epics, Chronicles, and Tales
-The Proud Tower, Tuchman
-Hero with 1000 Faces, Campbell
>>54766054
Excellent. Glad to see Peter Purplestripe lives.
>>54766137
>We learned how to use vitriol as a bong.
Heh.

Wait what.

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>>54766278
Wrong sort of vitriol.

>>54765202
>how do I into dice probability

>>54766546
I have no idea about dice probability but feel free to educate me.

>>54766587
http://anydice.com/ Educate yourself.

>>54765202
Even if you fix the probabilities, you'll be bogging play down to the bedrock.

They can and they will waste a shitton of time doing this.
Either that, or they won't do it at all. In which case it's pointless.

>>54766635
What he said.

Just make it 3d6. Triples win.

>>54758551
So Sad

>>54755976
I keep hearing about the term 'mother may I' but I don't really know what it means. Isn't the whole point of tabletop games trying out different actions with the GM adjudicating what happens?

>>54767158
It's an attitude that comes from either modern systems, shitty groups or both. The expectation is that you can do almost nothing that is not on your character sheet, ergo, the wizard with a massive amount of spells available can do anything his heart desires while the martial classes are completely nonfunctional out of combat (where they may also be massively eclipsed by the casters). So, the assumption is that a system has to spell out that your character can do x thing because otherwise the DM will actively try to fuck you over for not being a caster otherwise.

It's most prevalent with a small subset of hardcore caster supremacy 3.PF people, and Paizo unironically believes it is realistic

>>54767158
"Mother May I" refers to rules-light style of play where basically any menaingful effect or consequence of an action is not codified in the rules, meaning that the GM has to make it up on the spot. It gives a disproportionate amount of power to GMs, and reduces player agency by giving them little ground to stand on. Rules provide a common well of knowledge that everyone can draw on, including GMs, for when they're unsure of an action's effects or consequences.

While this is not too much of a problem with a GOOD GM, there are very few actually good GMs. Most GMs are mediocre or bad, and make bad calls. This is where "Mother May I" is a bad thing, because those GMs make bad rulings and wittingly or otherwise abuse their power to cow PCs into courses of action they want to happen. It can happen even to good GMs, too, but not nearly as often.

So, if you're one of the lucky few, you can play a rules light system and not encounter too many problems. I'm not one of those GMs, I'm mediocre-borderline bad. I like having lots of rules to refer to for all sorts of situations, since they prop me up and let me run a game that is, if nothing else, internally consistent and fair.

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>>54767158
That's the original school of thought.

Around the end of TSR, the idea developed that DMs and players were enemies.
That's the idea Wizards of the Coast ran with after buying D&D.

People indoctrinated to the hobby by the d20 System are of the opinion that all actions should have rules, and that rules exist to restrain the DM.

>>54767302
>>54767305
I love how absolutely different these two replies are.

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>>54767360
Use good bait, catch lots of different fishies.

>>54751787
Still no takers?

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>>54766350
yes, that was the joke.

>>54766316
>-1066 And All That
Seriously, this book is fucking amazing. And hilarious. They did a couple others as well.

I'm currently reading the Popol Vuh and Bernal Diaz's "Historia Verdada"/Conquest of New Spain, which is one of the best tales of an adventuring party you'll ever find. Written by a career NCO, who hated Cortes almost as much as he hated everyone/thing else. He even goes into the size and type of treasure hoards they find. Get an edition from the 90s or later, though - one of the Brothers of Mercy got ahold of the text and "helpfully" revised it to make the Mercredians more important and all the fights more dramatic. The original version wasn't found or translated into English until the sixties and most of the copies on the market even afterwards are the squirreled version.

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>>54767680
>They did a couple others as well.
They aren't as good.

The standard for "do you know shit about history?" is being able to laugh at all the jokes in the relevant section of 1066.
> Written by a career NCO, who hated Cortes almost as much as he hated everyone/thing else.
Sold.

Opinions on Maze Rats? Reading the rules I get the feeling that it would be a good way to introduce people to OSR that have an interest in playing RPGs but aren't super interested in spending time in the hobby outside of play. For instance people who enjoy it as an activity solely as a way of spend time with friends.

>>54768180
The tables are good, the game not so much.

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>>54767680
>>54766316
Ok, here's what I read on my vacation. It's not directly gaming related, but I needed to write something to get back into practice. https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.ca/2017/08/what-i-read-on-my-vacation.html

Plus, chances are pretty good you'll find a few OSR-related books on the list.

What is the role of the MU?

Fighters are good at fighting. Clerics heal and support. Rogues, though added later, have a clear role of bypassing obstacles.

But what is the MU there for? I honestly don't see it.

>>54770513
They're the blaster. They step into the roles of the other three whenever it's needed, a few times a day, to help out or just blow shit up.

Magic-users are the limited-use multi purpose tool. They can do mostly anything, but not very often: use them wisely.

>>54770249
I hope you realize that The Golden Bough is just as much unsubstatiated garbage as The Hero with a Thousand Faces is.

Good post otherwise!

>>54770513
They have instant problem solvers.

>>54770513
They're good at using magic, duh. What a foolish thing to ask! They tend to know arcane lore, probably can read those runes on that axe you found or that dead language on the wall over there as well. They can also have immense impact on combat, though of course they need to be protected while doing their business.

>>54770513
>What is the role of the MU?
Dying

>>54765251
I like to think I have a pretty decent understanding of Vancian casting.

>>54765815
Class restrictions aren't changing on weapons and armor. It's one of the other balancing factors here - the Wizard might be able to cast five Meteor Swarms, but only if he finds a Meteor Swarm talisman/scroll. Doing such a thing should be a legendary quest unto itself, and probably has stipulations attached.

There's also that five Meteor Swarms may not actually be as useful as forty Magic Missiles, but that's neither here nor there. Some balancing concerns are definitely appearing.

>>54765846
>>54765929
I could alternatively just not hand out 9th-level spells at all, which is a thing I'm seriously considering anyway. 3rd-level spells are about as high as I can imagine people "regularly" stumbling across, making casters reliant on bread-and-butter and able to get really excited about things like a 5th- or 6th-level drop.

But that isn't really a *balancing* factor, is it? That's a GM factor.

My other big idea is that spells over 6th-level simply are 1/day period. The Scroll is reusable but it's 1/day to cast something that will simply end a combat.

>>54753428
My eggbrother.

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>>54770745
>I hope you realize that The Golden Bough is just as much unsubstatiated garbage as The Hero with a Thousand Faces is.
Oh absolutely! But if if I'm going to read nonsense, I'd like it to be well written.

>>54770513
Solve orthogonal problems, deal burst damage, deal with Weird Shit.

>>54753860
Carnivorans are split into two suborders: feliforms ("cat-like") and caniforms ("dog-like").
So, not cats; but more cat than dog.

>>54770513
oh my god enough of the iconoclasm

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>>54771377
Never!

>>54770745
>hating on golden bough
Do you have any idea how much of that drivel is worth stealing?
It ought to be a must read for DMs..

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>>54771410
Especially you.

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>>54770513
>What is the role of the MU?
Being the bad guys. Also running away.

>Rogues [...] have a clear role

>>54754062
I dunno, why do Angels look different in every interpretation? Knightly humanoids with wings in many works, terrifying monstrosities in the Torah, cyborgs in Might & Magic, and the bullshit that happens in Evangelion. Despite being completely different, they are ultimately called "Angels".

>>54750708
I always pictured them as canine, like the kobolds in Record of Lodoss Wars

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>>54771475
>Especially you.
Exodus 20:4-6, motherfucker.
>>54771444
It's so good! And it's funny too.

To hell with accuracy, unless you're running a historically accurate game. Everything is inspiration.

>>54771614
>cyborgs in Might & Magic
This reminds me of a thought I have. It's well known that Might & Magic is about advanced civilizations that lost their technology and regressed. This is far less obvious in the Heroes spinoff. This makes me wonder.

Are the magical artifacts in it actually advanced technology? Is a flaming sword actually a weaponized blowtorch? Is a lightning staff actually an electric stun baton? Are the creature dwellings actually clone labs? Do they actually have all this advanced technology, but only perceive it as magical because they don't understand it?

>>54771726
That's the least convoluted explanation for all the OD&D "dungeon is out to get you" rules.

This is cool and all but are any of you bad enough dudes to play a full campaign using only LBB and without looking online for houserules?

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>Combine MU and Cleric spells lists and abilities
>Call them 'Sage'

Problem solved.

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>>54772297
I could also play online using Roll20, with a donald duck voice changer, and advertise specifically for incompatible autists. I would have to really hate myself and my players to do that.

So no. Why would anyone do that? That's not the point of /osr/.

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>>54760436
>>54760480
>>54762851
>>54762993
>>54763204

So all of this, and some stuff people have said, inspired me to just put together my little collection of Dark Souls OSR-y rules. They're technically system-agnostic, but they're meant for either OSR or 5e with math tweaking in the direction you want to handle.

I'd love some ideas and suggestions on how to improve them, specifically Parry - I feel like Parry is my least favorite thing.

My current semi-solution is that players can always use their firearm to parry, but can spend a bullet (a third form of resource, I guess, to keep track of) to double the parry bonus, making firearms relevant and competitive with shields and rapiers and other such weapons.

I'm trying to keep this from getting bloated, too, which is a mess when Parry gets involved.

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>>54772328
Nah, man.
Give turn undead to Fighting-Men wielding any magic sword.
Give cleric spells to Magic-Users at one spell level higher.

Keep the names the same.

>>54770513
Burst damage boss-killers. A mage will be swarmed and murdered by 20 kobolds unless he has the tactically perfect setup to AoE, but can evaporate the giant's thoracic cavity in a single rude gesture. A fighter can duck and dodge and trade blows all day with trash, but at best would give the giant scraped knees before being crushed by its club.

The problem with mage/martial balance exists because the limitations on mages are almost never observed; when was the last time your DM made you do overland travel with rolls on the random encounter table, or put you in a dungeon with respawning encounters and the chance for adds every time something went boom? They're balanced by not being useful in sustained close-quarters combat but even grognards expect a fight-talk-fight-talk pace now.

>>54772467
If you're doing Dark Souls, you should honestly be doing it in Dungeon Fantasy. That has parries, blocks, and dodges.

>>54772362
So what you're telling me is that you're not bad enough of a dude?

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>>54772467
stick to video games, chief

>>54772328
What problem?

>>54772756
All of them.

>>54772756
Paladins were a mistake.

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>>54772807
>>54772838
Oh. We're reaching *that* stage of the general now.

>>54772543
I'm unhappy with parry, but I'm not so unhappy that I want to play GURPS.

My goal wasn't to strictly emulate Dark Souls 100% (I feel that emulating video games perfectly is stupid to begin with; they have systems for that, they're called video games) but to try and capture a little bit of the feeling Dark Souls offers without overcomplicating things for either myself or the players.

I don't have a specific problem with GURPS but I do find it kind of clunky and over-precise, something I was trying pretty hard to avoid. Most of that four pages is me talking about why I made certain decisions rather than actual rules.

I actually will take a look at Dungeon Fantasy, though, just to see if I can steal anything from it, but I suspect that, it being GURPS, it's probably overcomplicated to the point where I don't want it.

Unless you mean a different Dungeon Fantasy, in which case, I'd love to know about it!

>>54751787
I just want senpai to notice me

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>>54772943
Come back 50 days ago.

>>54772910
I don't find it overcomplicated in the slightest, but to /osr/ having to roll more than one die at a time is bloat, so whatever. You could probably just do it as a save vs. system with parry being another table entry for classes and things like shields, rapiers, etc. modifying it, rather than . You'd want to look at GURPS Campaigns, since that has the actual combat and fatigue rules.

>>54773008
K-kay

>>54773045
That's fair. I don't love GURPS largely because I find it a bit more work on my end; I don't find it much work for the players, but I find it a bit more of a pain to set up for myself. I wouldn't mind any shortcuts you might know of, although this might not be the right place for it.

A Save vs. might not be a bad idea. I'll play with that.

>>54773079
Well, I'll say one last bit: Dungeon Fantasy really reduces the workload on GMs a shitload when starting up OSR-style games, even if you start deviating from it with stuff like Dark Souls. You can find /GURPSGEN/ in the catalog. I'll hush about it now so as not to kick the hornet's nest.

I do think save vs. would be the best system for parries in your standard B/X homebrew. Simple, easily scaled, and fairly balanced. I'd make it all or nothing and give small chances to start with then maybe get it to 60% at best. I'd also suggest... can't remember the blogpost, but breaking shields to defend against attacks was the gist of it. You can play with number of uses, various saves it works against, etc. as you like.

Did MageGuru ever get the "3rd Party" compilation work of The Everwinking Eye 1.1? Every single one of Ed Greenwood's detailed Forgotten Realms update articles from Polyhedron Newszine. Thing is huge and mind-numbingly detailed.

>>54773210
I'll go check it out!

And, hm. That's a pretty good idea. I definitely like the idea of shield breakage. I don't want to overload the players on resources to keep track of but that's a pretty solid idea.

I'm about to playtest the current system with some friends, and if I think Parry is terrible as it stands, I'm gonna start fiddling with a Save Vs. system.

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On a scale of 1-10, how many of the old grogs here are angry about all the homebrew, DIY DnD, and more 'modern' retroclone elements put into this general instead of discussion of the classics?

Survey time. I've played a few old-school campaigns with a couple of different DMs, and I want more people's experiences for context. When you're playing an edition of D&D (or a retroclone) that has the following rules, does your group use them as written? If applicable, you can say what you use instead.

1. the AD&D initiative system
2. the AD&D surprise system
2. the table for different weapons' bonuses against different kinds of armor
3. alignment languages
4. potion miscibility
5. level loss for alignment change (assuming neither alignment is normally restricted by the character's class)
6. dual classing (especially the rules governing that period where your new class has not yet overtaken your old one)

>>54773254
I don't think grogs hang out here anymore, anon.

>>54773254
I wonder if people during the Italian Renaissance bitched about people painting new pictures using old works as much as the people in the Old-School Renaissance bitch about people making new games out of old systems.

It's kind of funny to think about people screaming their heads off over how inaccurate the Birth of Venus was to the originals. Not that I think anything I make is the Birth of Venus, but it's a damn funny image, imagining all the Greeknards losing their shit at him calling it "Venus" instead of "Aphrodite." Romeaboo faggot.

>>54773335
1. Yes. I find the full initiative of AD&D chaotic, fun, and fast to play. I could never imagine go without it.
2. Whenever applicable.
3. No. I rarely even remember its existence, and it adds very little to the game.
4. No. The best justification I could think of for them was subtle cues of body language and such things, and that still sounded pretty dumb and mostly made the whole thing impossible to communicate with anyway.
5. Hasn't come up yet - party doesn't drink potions much, much less make any - but if it does, I'll definitely use it.
6. Never had a reason to use this.
7. Dual-classing doesn't come up much either, but when it does I'm pretty lenient about it. You just funnel some experience to a new class, no big deal.

>>54773254

This grog loves it. The "Classics" have been discussed to death, and the bevy of homebrew, DIY etc is EXACTLY the same thing we did in the 70's and 80's, and then when the internet first became a thing, we flooded with our Netbooks.

>>54773335
>the AD&D initiative system
Nah, we'll probably just do group initiative.

>the AD&D surprise system
Nah, from what I remember it's much too complicated. We'd probably just use the B/X system.

>the table for different weapons' bonuses against different kinds of armor
Depends on how easy it is to use, but probably not.

>alignment languages
Why not, it seems fun.

>potion miscibility
Sure, sounds fun. Might add some other effect as well.

>evel loss for alignment change (assuming neither alignment is normally restricted by the character's class)
Nah, that's not really how we use alignment.

>dual classing (especially the rules governing that period where your new class has not yet overtaken your old one)
Nah, it's too rare to be noted. If the system has made it simpler to use, then maybe.

>>54773254
Who cares what old grogs think? I'm old and I'd rather see new, innovative material than the nostalgia of some fossil.

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>>54773393
>AD&D initiative is fast
including all the parts for attacking vs. charging vs. ranged attacks vs. spells vs. turning undead, and how sometimes the initiative roll matters and sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes weapon speed matters but sometimes weapon reach matters instead, and sometimes spells can bleed over into the next turn? I had trouble with that even after my DM passed out that fan-made PDF that puts all the scattered relevant rules in one place.

>>54773493
I mean it's fast in the context of later editions, where everyone goes on their turn instead of all at once. I guess it's fairly slow when compared to just rolling a d6 on each side, but also much more of a fun clusterfuck.

>>54773521
The hardest part for me is that you can't just declare intentions, roll dice, and then resolve all the actions in order of what people rolled. There's all this other stuff going on, like "floating" attacks where a guy's already taken his turn but he gets another attack that you have to remember to resolve at some point after the target attacks. If three or more characters are all doing different things that affect the others, it can be a knot of stuff where it's hard to figure out which of them actually goes first.

>>54773608
In my experience they usually also target wildly different things: you've got a fighter about to engage these two goblins, the wizard about to cast his spell to the batch over there, and so forth... that allows me to chop up the fight into smaller "sub-fights", making it easier to deal with.

Like in the above example, it doesn't matter whether the fighter goes before wizard, just that he goes before the goblin bunch he's about to fight.

>>54773335
1,3,4,5
6 never had the opportunity to come up
You've 2 2s there, buddy

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Little OC

>>54772467
I think it's fairly interesting but this then transfers a lot of the work to the bestiary writer who now has to come up with a whole bunch of DCs to represent monsters.

>>54773254
I don't think we actually have that many grogs; most casual surveys in the past of /osrg/ usually has the vast majority of people in their mid-twenties.

When making classes in Adventurer Conqueror King, do you typically gain all of your custom powers at level 1 or is it all spread out some way?

>>54773254
I like homebrew, DIY, and even a lot of the retroclone stuff. It's just a lot of the good stuff doesn't come in here because it's obviously not coming from the right place. Read some of the silly suggestions that happen every other thread (attempts to make better magic systems or at removing fighters or whatever) and it seems more like somebody wants to be the next sort of guy who came up with this GRAND insight to the DEEP and ESOTERIC DESIGN OF THE GAME that unites the archetypes and makes it the PERFECT STREAMLINED EXPERIENCE FOR MAXIMUM IMAGINATION that finally gets everyone playing again.

Instead, homebrew needs to be something people test and play with. It needs to come from actual at the table experience and be informed by that. How the rules read from your armchair are usually completely different in play and that's where all homebrewing and the 'rules are guidelines' elements need to come in. You make a new class because a player asks if he can do something like that, you change the monetary system because you do have an inflation problem in your game, you add cantrips because your MUs are all sitting bored half the time for some reason.

>>54774988
Class that has no advancement beyond, say... level 2, but that gets extra lives at fixed xp intervals?

>>54772297
>This is cool and all but are any of you bad enough dudes to play a full campaign using only LBB and without looking online for houserules?
I'm doing that right now!

A lot of house rules of my own though, you have to make them to deal with some edge cases like "what if sub-Hero-capacity PCs fight a Fantastic Combat monster?". Just use Mass Combat and cackle evilly.

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>>54774238
This is good stuff.

>>54775158

Thanks Skerples. By the way, I was thinking about making a blog post about why your 3 estates idea is shit, but I feel like it might be kind of mean. Do you mind?

>>54773254
>On a scale of 1-10, how many of the old grogs here are angry
I'm guessing zero, this isn't K&KA.

>>54774675
Nah, I think if you add 10 to the monster's regular attack bonus as a base, you're probably fine in most cases. Then it's just deciding the thing's "big smashy attack" that they absolutely want to roll out of the way of and add, say, 5 to it.

Then you just come up with one or two attacks. You don't really have to rewrite the whole bestiary, I don't think.

I guess I could be wrong. I designed it to be as quick and painless as possible for me personally to GM.

>>54775243
I guess alternatively you could flip it and make it so that a Defense Roll or an Attack Roll is always aiming for 20, and then give players penalties or bonuses based on the attack.

Come to think of it, that might be easier.

>>54774953
Also, does anyone know how the system of creating the framework of racial classes actually works in the Player Companion? It's looking really varied and I'm trying to different races that aren't provided there.

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>>54775197
>Do you mind?
Not at all, provided you're OK with the conditions I'm proposing for it. Attacking it for what it is is fine. Attacking it for what it isn't... might be a waste of your time. :)

It's not for all games. I'm not trying to say "Use this or ur D&D game is wrong and un-fun" or something. It's an option, like making Wizards spell-trainers rather than natural spellcasters, or adding guns.

It's designed to add a level of interest to certain types of games, to introduce backgrounds and domain-level play naturally, and to give GMs who are interested in history more hooks to use. It also helps with natural, highly improvised worldbuilding. It's designed to operate with a minimum of rules (no Loyalty Points or Noble Power Points or Peasant Surliness Factors to clutter up the character sheet). Instead, it's designed to give you guidelines on what being a knight or a priest /means/.

It doesn't work well for heroic games, or games that are more about combat and party synergy, or really... games that don't need it?

What're you going after it for?

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Has this man been a positive or negative influence on the OSR, RPGs and fantasy in general?

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>>54775365
He's a Marxist? You'd think he'd like more classless game systems!

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>>54775415

>>54775365
>pajeet with a dry elbow
Am I meant to know who this is?

>>54775356
>What're you going after it for?

Oh no, I was just mildly annoyed that you did the legit 3 estates from medieval culture; Commoners, Nobility, and the Church when you don't even use clerics in your setting. That 'magic' wasn't a legit part of it at all. If you're gonna do something like that in a fantasy setting, then magic should instead be the third 'branch' of the society instead of religion.

It was mostly just a meme, don't worry about it.

>>54775292
Here's my notes on it. PLAYER’S COMPANION NOTES ON CREATING CUSTOM RACES
1. Calculate number of racial powers.
2. Subtract 1, to represent the fact that racial classes lose 1 maximum level of experience at Race 0.
3. Add 1 if the class has racial value powers at 1+ that are not available to humans.
4. Multiply the result by 40.
5. Round the product to the nearest interval of 25 (25, 50, 75, 100, 125, etc.)
6. If the race’s racial value mimics a class (such as elf and mage), divide the Racial Value XP cost at Value 4 by the cost for elf 4 (2,625) and multiply the result by 50,000. This is the additional cost per level after 8.
7. If the race’s racial value does not mimic a class (such as dwarf), divide the Racial Value XP cost at Value 4 by the cost for dwarf 4 (1,400) and multiply the result by 10,000 for 2 class types and 30,000 for 2 class types. This is the additional cost per level after 8.

I saw this posted a few threads ago and really liked it. In fact I like it so much I want to use it for my primary magic system.

https://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.com/2011/05/clerics-without-spells.html

How would one go about doing this?

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>>54775472
>It was mostly just a meme, don't worry about it.
I'm writing up 2 of my 1st Estate-exclusive classes now. Paladins you've seen ('cause Arnold K wrote them) but Exorcists are new.

Well, I mean, I also stole them wholesale from other sources, but they're new to the system.

And if you want to write up how Wizards work as a 4th Estate, go right ahead! I figure that that's about the point a setting goes from Medieval to Early Modern, but if it's a good writeup, I'll link to it.

Plus, can't do a Medieval European society without the Church (or something like it). It's really, really, really important.

>>54775356
I think a lot of people generally don't realize how valuable another screwdriver is in your toolbox until they need one that can only screw in a weird specialty screw, to really butcher a metaphor.

>>54775472
I'm not him but I kind of like the idea of magic not being a branch of society but intertwined. The commoners have/use/interact with magic differently from the nobility from the church (and from the fourth estate if you want to dick with that).

It's like a road between houses or some other inappropriate metaphor.

>>54775365
Didn't really like his work that I read, but more material rarely hurts. The new weird movement made a lot more fantasy, chances are you'll like some of it for something. Has some fun ideas but I tend not to enjoy his execution as a story teller.

>>54775415
>core classes only, prol, lumpenprol, bourgeois, vanguard
>what about race as class?
>race is a bourgeois construct designed to divide the proletariat and counter revolutionary dialectic

>>54775519 c >>54723147

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>>54775555
>I think a lot of people generally don't realize how valuable another screwdriver is in your toolbox until they need one that can only screw in a weird specialty screw, to really butcher a metaphor.
Very true. It's why Ryuutama is so damn interesting to me. It's like the designers had only seen pictures of cars, not videos and not diagrams, but they had seem racing video games, and then they set out to build a Toyota Prius based on that info. It's full of the /weirdest/ tools.

Plus, I put Wizards in the 3rd Estate because it makes no sense. I mean, do wealthy merchants and peasant turnip farmers have remotely the same interests, lives, and goals? Of course not. But into the 3rd Estate they went! It's not about a /sensible/ classification system. It's about hoarding power.

What do you think the maximum level should be?

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>>54775472
>when you don't even use clerics in your setting.
He has Clergy in his setting, but being a member doesn't dictate what fluid you slip in before dying in a bar-fight.

>then magic should instead be the third 'branch' of the society instead of religion.
Nah. I could see replacing the nobility with wizards, but that loses sight of the "authentic medieval" setting goal.
Frankly, I'm surprised they're not all outlaws. If you weed out the godly types, the only magic left is pariahs and monsters.
Then again, that wouldn't be very gameable. I suppose magic is old hat in his setting?

>>54775356
While we're on this note, could you add him to your sidebar?
I can't be assed to bite his RSS feed, and that would make checking for updates easier.

It would be an extra rock weighing down whether or not to check your site while bored or hiding from snakes.

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>>>54775650 it makes no sense
If you ever get around to posting on burghs, make sure to shoehorn megadungeons.

>>54775650
Ryuutama's insane, and I agree 100% with your analysis of why. It's so bizarre but it's fascinating.

I do, however, disagree with your assessment of mages. That sort of assumes there are no wealthy merchant mages or church mages or peasant mages - that "mage" is a birth thing, and not a profession. While Clergy is, too, you sort of have to renounce being those things to be a clergyman - are you implying the same is true of mages?

>>54775650
>It's like the designers had only seen pictures of cars, not videos and not diagrams, but they had seem racing video games, and then they set out to build a Toyota Prius based on that info. It's full of the /weirdest/ tools
Could you elaborate on this? You got me interested, especially considering Ryuutama is already on my "to read" list.

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>>54776125
>Could you elaborate on this? You got me interested, especially considering Ryuutama is already on my "to read" list.
I've got a whole post drafted about it.

So you know how JRPGs are kind of based off some D&D tropes, as interpreted by Japan?

Well, Ryuutama is what happens when you've /only ever seen JRPGs/ and you decide to make a "table top talking game" based on them.

It's like plugging a sentence into an old online translator, then translating the result back into English. Weeeeird stuff. Good, but weird.

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>>54776188
>only ever seen JRPGs
Parts of it reek of japanese tRPG habit.

I'm sure some exist, but all their tRPGs I know of expect players to respond to railroading by ignoring the game.
Benedictions look like a million other "pay attention" mechanics. None of which come from cRPGs.

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Let's talk about Worldbuilding, /osrg/.

How do you like to Worldbuild?

>>54775489
Thanks senpai, really useful. What's your take of choosing the extra stuff you could get with racial classes, like how the dwarves and thrassians get bonus abilities depending how many racial points you put into them? Additionally could you also throw your two cents on >>54774953?

>>54776846
I generally have a strong central concept based on some weird, outlandish idea, and then build around it to make it as realistic as possible without getting cracked out on details players don't care about. It's enough for me if the world makes logical enough sense that my players can ask a question and I can bullshit an answer that sounds realistic.

One of my favorites is a setting heavily inspired by Arabian Nights where the whole world is formed by the convergence point of the various elemental planes, each of which is ruled by a powerful Djinn Sultanate. The world is unstable, as it essentially formed by the Djinn Sultans trying to shove each other out cosmologically, except for the very center, where a city has been built vertically to protect people from nighttime. The world has a lot of violent shifts and para-elemental and elemental calamity, making it pretty hard to live in. And, of course, there's all the undead.

You see, Positive and Negative are elemental planes, too. Day is the Positive, and night is the Negative. During the day people heal. During the night they die. These effects can be dealt with if you have cover, like, say, a building - so the big city in the center is a tower, with the wealthiest people at the lowest levels, and the poor and unhappy forced to live at the top, where some of them die and become zombies or skeletons in the night.

All of this was born out of "I really would like a setting where if I keep walking towards the sunrise, I'll wind up on another world." You can just keep walking towards an elemental plane, or para-elemental junction, or quasi-elemental junction, and hit the relevant plane. During twilight or dawn, you can hit the positive or negative planes, too.

>>54776846
In my head. I've spent months on this one particular country and I need to get the important stuff on paper, but I feel like everything's important so I haven't finished yet and it's driving me mad.

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>>54776846
I build from stuff the PCs are likely to see outwards, as needed. Start with a village, then sketch out some local politics. Who cares what the Elves are up to beyond the sea? Who cares what's inside the moon? It's all GM wankery and novel-writing if it's not gameable content. If the PCs don't see it, it might as well not exist. Cosmology, planes, and metaphysics can get lost.

>>54776953
is that a pig's head in another pig's head

>>54776953
But what if there's a dungeon inside the moon and it's got sweet space treasure

>>54776910
It's just like adding more points to a class, like elf, only cheaper to do. The way I decide what is in a higher racial rank is by what I think a more "perfect" member of the race is. So a gnoll racial class might start out with just the basics every gnoll must have, and by rank four be a flind with big damage plusses and thick hide. As for >>54774953 I change it up based on the class. Most classes should be front-loaded for a fighter-feel, some can start with all their tricks and improve them over time like a thief, and others get their powers spread out over the levels like a mage. It depends on how you want the class to feel.

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>>54776846
>/osrg/

>>54776953
Same. I start with just the dungeon and enough information about the surroundinfs to explain how the PCs have gear.
Nothing beyond that matters until they're about to go beyond that.

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>>54777025
Then that's part of stuff the PCs are likely to encounter, because you decided it is. Stuff will be gently steered to involve a trip to the moon.

And if the PCs announce one day "we're going to the moon. Is there treasure?" a good improvisational GM will go "Yes, sure, let's whip up something." and not "Thank goodness I spent 20 hours a week building dungeons for every single part of my setting!"

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>>54776984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_MSFkZHNi4

>>54777025
http://www.paperspencils.com/dungeon-moon/

>I started translating the myths from overwrought Freudian blather into overwrought Marxian blather.
>I'm happy to report that I've discovered just as much "deep hidden meaning" by this method as Campbell ever found by using Jung and Freud.
You've taken Freud and Jung for granted so hard you forgot you were doing it.
Repent!

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>>54777157
>You've taken Freud and Jung for granted so hard you forgot you were doing it.
Nope, pretty sure I know what I'm doing.

I'm not sure that Campbell knew what he was doing.

Besides, the Revolution wasn't going to be a conscious affair anyway.

>>54770513
They solve problems with magic. Unlike the other classes which are based around probabilistic wagers, Magic-Users are about "magic bullet" solutions - specific solutions to specific problems.

Sleep solves a pack of orcs; Spider Climb solves a vertical obstacle; Knock opens a locked door; Fly gets you over a pit (and not much more in an underground environment).

>>54774953
You choose the progression rate. Powers that are gained immediately at level one cost more than spaced out or later powers.

>>54774953
>>54777303
I will warn that the ACKS Class Creation system is more of a toolkit to help the GM eyeball custom classes. In no case would I ever let a player take a crack at it - this isn't meant to be a "player facing" system and is still for a context of a class-based game.

It's meant to aid you in homebrewing custom solutions, and you should feel free to fudge the rules a bit if you think it fits the concept better (though I would err on the side of "less powerful than RAW" rather than "more powerful".

>>54777322
I fudged with it quite a bit when creating these two classes here >>54751787, which I don't know how it'll turn out. I tend to make my classes on the power heavy side of things though.

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Holy shit, I finally got a decent chunk of my heartbreaker down on virtual paper, and it only took about 4 and a half hours. Go me.

So yeah, it's rough as hell, numbers are 141.9% asspulled, and I haven't even really been able to sit down and even try to playtest this shit. A lot of that is my weird-ass work schedule, where I get the beginning of the week off, while anyone who may even remotely be interested works.

I know the tense is all over the damn place, and I tried to keep it setting-agnostic as much as possible. However, if it helps, I'm aiming more for a science-fantasy vibe, with photon weapons right next to big fuck-off dragons, interplanetary travel within the same solar system, and kind of a bit more of a gritty-heroic vibe. Like, you can get to be Charlie Big Balls, but you gotta get there first, and even then a few good shots and you're kinda fucked for a while.

Again, it's really damn rough, but let me know what you think. A buddy of mine said he could probably use the social system for a high-school dating sim, lel

>>54777563
>I just abbreviate any sort of dice as “Xd”

call it the xD system and 4chan will fail their will save vs. feeding the troll and literally never shut up about it

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I'm going to start using a roll-under-ability-score save system and there's nothing you can do to stop me!!

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Sometimes if you just start drawing, you don't know where you end up.

Are there any random tables to fill a dungeon with? I've got plenty for treasure, some for dressings, but could use a few for monsters, maybe traps and puzzles and other weird features as well.

>>54778205

I obviously can't "stop" you, but I can tell you that it's shit.

While it is easy and fast, easy and fast are not always necessarily desirable if the rules suffer. Random stats are totally fine and good in OSR games, where they don't matter as much and life is cheap. But roll under saves make a permanent and very LARGE discrepancy between characters, just use the modifiers instead.

>>54779039
"every character must be relevant in every encounter because otherwise it hurts their player's fee-fees" is the same cancer that delivered us caster supremacy as vancian glass cannons suddenly got to unload on every stray rat and then recharge.

>>54776846
I generally like to start with something that actually has a practical, in game use and then work out from there. Like the fact that basically any RPG must begin in a sort of "base town" leads me to need to explain why a possibly extremely diverse party could meet there and what the situation is there and the surrounding area.

Eventually I just add on things that I think are cool or interesting, sometimes doing dynamics top down rather than bottom up. Like, I think that there should be a ton of city states engaged in theatrical wars like Renaissance Italy is depicted and then I worked down from there to make various factions and cities with their own possible roleplay quirks (one of them is a city that has gone so far to ban all gold and has a very complex network of spies and secret police to hunt out gold for confiscation.)

Other times I do just like to add in a weird thing if not just because it can lead to something later. Super consistency isn't completely important, but there needs to be something of a thread.

>>54776846
Shameless plagiarism from a source my group DOESN'T know. Grognards are getting Suikoden maps with added anime, "my first trpg can i play a Death Knight" kiddies can have a steady diet of classic AD&D modules.

>>54779072
>"every character must be relevant in every encounter because otherwise it hurts their player's fee-fees"

Well, having anything otherwise is pretty shit game design.

Hey look at this cool class that can cast Wish once per level but cannot wear any equipment or use any weapons more complex then a dagger. Wow, really cool and so balanced too. Look at me mom I'm a game designer.

>>54779688
What do you play and how often do you play it?

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>>54776846
I get about 2/3rds of the way finished with a map, get frustrated at my lack of imagination and quit. Rinse and repeat. I should just focus on a smaller area I guess, but I get worried that players are just going to charge off into some totally unmapped area.

>>54779262

You're newsletter. I wish to subscribe to it. But stop playing with the weeb kids.

>>54776846

I take two pieces of media I enjoy, and slap them together to see what pieces fit.

Then I amateurishly craft a region that holds those concepts, and fill out a 4x6 index card with that region's information and rough position in the 'world'.

Then I repeat the process until I have a 3x3 grid, and start looking at how cards affect their neighbors.

>>54775827
I'm friends with this woman. She's dope.

>>54781082

Start small, Anon. On that map you just posted, make the hexes 6 miles each. Each hex would then hold roughly 2 Skyrims worth of content.

Build vertically. If I ran a campaign using your map, I'd start it on the big island in the middle, and put it in the mountains with the lake. That gives me: Mountainous terrain, water terrain, caverns. Would probably just use the 7 hexes that make up the lake and its surroundings.

Also check out Welsh Piper's Hex based campaign design articles. Good stuff.

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>>54781082
Map-making is a trap. It says "Fill all this space with interesting stuff".

Focus instead on /generating/ interesting stuff on the fly (by reading books, building tables, stealing stuff from blogs, etc.). That way, if the players go charging off into the unknown... you can steer the boat.

Practice predicting players, offering subtle hooks, learning their goals and designing content around them (not to pander to them, but to challenge and excite them).
>>54781935
Got more stories?

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>>54781082
I tend to have better times with smaller areas that everyone throws a few ideas into. You can always add more map when people go west. Ask a few questions about what your players want or find cool.

BtW's campaign map/system has been very enjoyable as a template.

>>54782166
The raccoon stuff was a while ago. Her current projects are a lot more interesting than the vice stuff, but also a lot more specific. Doing linguistic development in kids with autism has more content than just doing weird shit to see if people will pay for it. She basically needed to sort out that she was smart and interesting enough that she didn't need to rely on shock value.

Could anyone recommend a good short mine-themed dungeon or module? Preferably gonzo and/or high fantasy.
Thanks!

>>54781082
What's wrong with this map? Looks perfectly decent to me.

>>54772467
I think you have a lot of really good ideas here. I think the idea of enemies having a "Attack DC" is pretty cool. The system I Use has characters roll under their AC in order to not get hit with penalties based on monster HD so I'll let you know that at least mechanically it works well. I'm not a big fan of armor as damage reduction but I do like the idea of the strongest armor having gaps in what type of protection it provides. I don't think such a concept would work with armor as a defense bonus so it's a pretty novel idea. I think Rally points are a cool "Limit Breaker" JRPG concept but I would have to see how it works in a real game to make more comments. When you talk about stamina points you seem to imply a combat grid rather than theater of the mind combat., and I fear that would greatly bog down combat. I do like that you can spend stamina to increase your DR from a shield, I'm not to sure about rolling for the bonuses on attack or defense rolls because again I fear it would bog down combat. Parry seems bogged down mechanically, but I agree with sneak attacks adding to their damage which fits with the dark souls model. I think the idea of equipping spells is a cool way for people to possibly understand the spells that they have prepared. I don't understand why you would have multiple classes in dark souls and I would recommend the scoundrel house rule from LotFP. I can;t find it right now but essentially you have a base specialist class and instead can spend 2 skill points to either increase your attack bonus or learn 1 spell 1/day. I think this format would better fit the dark souls mold. Overall i think there are a few good ideas but overall it's mechanically a mess. I think partially that's because dark soul's focus on combat would mean a game would be 90% combat. Think about how things would actually work on a table and maybe run a few fights just to see if things go fluidly. I hope this helps.

>>54781082
>>54783615
You know what? I'm just abou to clear up at work and go home, but later this evening I'll try to post some more indepth notes on playing with this as your basis. Offhand I can think of at least three ways to run this map (city on the shore of the big bay; colony town on one of the smaller islands, area largely unknown; totally unknown island which the PCs are stranded on/have come to explore).

>>54778315
I wonder what he's feeling right now?

Will there be more of this husbando in the future?

>>54778659
I am also interested in this

>>54778659
>>54783856
Have a look at "The Dungeon Alphabet". IIRC, it's in the trove.

>>54783883
01_DM Ressources → Adventure prep and inspiration → Goodman Games - The Dungeon Alphabet.pdf

Critkeeper's dead

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>>54783540
Read VotE, then try to nick pic related.
(Be sure to stretch it out, ofc)

Alternatively (or additionally) steal dumb mines from
http://mkv25.net/dfma/browseby.php

>>54784605
Is that going on a year yet?

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>>54783735
My intention was to have a port town in the largest isle, and then a few more smaller towns and villages scattered around. Everything else would be old ruins or wilderness. I wanted to add some more lakes and rivers, but I'm always worried about crowding out actual movable space. Then I get stressed out that too much open grasslands might be too generic or boring.

>>54782166
>>54781936
>>54782400
This one is actually a previous map I was working on before, until I decided to try and scale down a bit. Now I'm trying to put together a (relatively) smaller map and adventure site that will hopefully have enough stuff to keep the PC's interested that they won't wander too far afield.

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>>54784639
Thank you, the fire demons used as lanterns are a nice touch, I'm going to keep that.

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Hey Janon, any way I could get a V2.0 of this map with a different, more clear font for the numbers?

>>54785399 Not that guy, but maybe specify a font?

>>54785607
Comic Sans MS

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>>54785607
wingdings

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>>54785399
I'm currently translating this module to French.
Anyway, have bigger numbers.

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>>54785960
Seriously? Because there's already a guy on that, unless
a) you are that guy
b) he invited you to the project
But in any case that's pretty neat. Thanks for the revision!

>>54783699
Roll-Under AC is clever!

I'm also not a huge fan of armor as damage reduction, but I wanted to very intentionally limit the number of bonuses a player could stack on their Defense Roll and still have armor be a meaningful tactical choice.

No combat grid. 5-foot step is there for games that care about it; I was aiming for system-agnosticism, as plug-and-play as possible. I run theater-of-the-mind.

I'm not sure about rolling the bonus when you spend stamina, either, but I don't want it to be a flat bonus, either, so that it's a bit more of a risk to blow it for such a purpose. Ideally, you're not blowing Stamina every round; you have very little, and it's very important to conserve it. 2-3 Stamina in a combat is not going to be enough for it to bog it down, I don't think, not substantially.

Parry definitely is a bit of a mess, as I mentioned earlier.

I wouldn't use multiple classes in a Dark Souls game, but I designed it so that people could if they wanted to because I design with usability in mind. I would just use the Expert, because I think between armor choice, spell equipment, shield choice, and simple tactical options, it probably wouldn't be a big problem.

To be clear, this isn't "exactly how I'd run Dark Souls" - I'd strip out classes, limit it to an Expert or Adventurer-class, offer a few unique traits like "Chosen Undead" or "Starts With Skeleton Key," and have at it.

This is a collection of thoughts and ideas trying to capture Dark Souls in as system-agnostic a manner as I can, without getting overly fixated on the mechanical rules of Dark Souls instead of the feeling of Dark Souls. I think a lot of people get fixated on replicating a game's *mechanics*, which is why I don't like my Parry - I think the option adds Risk vs. Reward on a tactical level, which is very important to Soulsborne's /feel/, but I think it's messy and unpleasant.

Skerples, now that you're here, how did you describe rooms like 30 or 38 to your players?

>>54786154
Oh, the other reason Stamina allows you to "roll" 5 feet is so that you can potentially "roll" out of a breath weapon or fireball. It's there so that you can ask the GM "if I can spend stamina to roll five feet, can I get out of the blast" as an emergency "oh shit" button. I wanted to give an idea of how far you could dive.

>>54786096
I must be that guy.
When I started, the author told me on Google+ there wasn't anybody else working on it yet. If there are other people translating this, he is not aware of them as far as I know.

I recently ordered 2 copies of OSRIC after reading food things about it.

Anybody here own a copy or use it for playing? Thoughts?

>>54786412
It's a pretty good clone, but I can't recommend it as a meal.

>>54786412
OSRIC as a standalone system is largely a legal fiction made to publish AD&D stuff. You got meme'd

>>54786442
But I've seen plenty of AD&D stuff published in the recent years!

>>54786412
>>54786438
>>54786442


God damn.

"Good things", I'm on mobile forgive me.

>>54786442
I should have mentioned that I knew it was an AD&D clone and I got them to run/play AD&D without needing to consult the actual books.

>>54786460
In time you will see the Lost Volumes of AD&D published, for the information necessary to create them was created and published by TSR, Inc. but never collated into a unified whole. AD&D continues to gain power while adherents to false editions have lost their pitiful excuses for games and will continue to do so.

>>54786530
Can you recommend any good modules 1e AD&D modules that have been published in the past few years?

>>54775489
Hey, speaking of which, I a bit more clarification on some things. When you're saying calculate the racial value powers, do you mean calculate the total xp from the build points put in the regular values, the total of custom power points from choosing what the base skills are for the race, or just calculating the number of build points used in making the race?

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>>54786168
This isn't verbatim, obviously.

30.
GM: You peek around the door. The source of the light, and the foul air, seems to be in the centre of a pit. There is a stone walkway around the edge of the room. The room is 4x4, centrered just above the last room, with the two south corners cut in half. The pit is the 2x2 section in the middle. Yeah, like that. And there's a door to the west in the top left corner. You can't see beyond it from here."

Player: I'll enter cautiously and look into the pit. Does the walkway look like it could collapse?

GM: No, it's solid. No weird tiles either. The sides of the pit slope downwards. There's a flame at the bottom, burning orange. It smells awful, chemical. Around the flame, there are a few carbonized bones and some streaks of gold.

Player: Weird. Is the flame magical?

38.
The players entered from 39, and they'd already cracked the door, etc.

GM: You peek from the secret passage into the next room. It's dark. The light of your torch...

Player: Lantern!

GM: Lantern, doesn't illuminate the opposite wall. In fact, you aren't sure if there is an opposite wall. All you can see are two huge pillars here and here. The pillars are slab-sided, no carvings, but the seem to be worn and chipped on the corners. The air is cold and very still. If you peek out, you can see the wall extends on either side. Don't draw the rest of the area or anything yet.

Player 1: Ok, I'm going to go in and take a closer look. I'm going to stick to the wall and move east.

Player 2: And I'll go west.

GM: Player 1, you find a tiny bat statue on the ground. Do you do anything with it?

Player 1: Sure, I'll pick it up. A... bat statue?

GM: Yeah, a tiny carved bat. Make an Int check. Player 2, you move along cautiously. There's a bit of rubble on the floor. You hear something clink in the darkness.

Player 2: I stop and listen.

>>54785960
Oh yeah, speaking of, can you add a pit marker or something (like 11) in the centre of room 30?

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>>54786205
Ah well, it's all good. I'm going to make a few edits to the V 2.0 document anyway, but just in the arrangement of the text. No words are going to change.

>>54757372
HATE IS MY ONLY FRIEND, PAIN IS MY FATHER
TORMENT IS DELIGHT TO ME
DEATH IS MY SANCTUARY, I SEEK IT WITH PLEASURE
PLEASE LET ME DIE IN SOLITUDE

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>>54786575
Night Wolf Inn isn't really a module, more of a small setting, but it's pretty excellent.

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>>54786664
Here you go.

>>54786575
I spend more time in search of real TSR-published AD&D® adventures, as they continue to elude us. We're still missing over 60 of the Adventurer's Guild official modules (real TSR, Inc. style) as well as over 500 Living City RPGA adventures for the Forgotten Realms and more.

• RPGA module list
https://pastebin.com/bTiWLJ1F

• Adventurer's Guild module list
https://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/periodicals/agindex.html

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>>54786807
This is asking a lot, but if you could make the pit square and maybe beveled or sloped (rather than wavy, although the waves do look like bad air...) so it takes up the central bit of the room I'd appreciate it. No worries otherwise. You've been really responsive so far, but I don't want to keep nitpicking.

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>>54786807
>center of room 30

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>>54786931

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>>54787028
>>54787010
Eh, it's centred-ish...

I cannot into arts.

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>>54786931
I won't be responsive for long, it's getting late in my timezone.
Is that better?