/osrg/ Old School Revival Specific

How did your last game go, /osrg/?

>>54665809
See >>54658875 and >>54658945

So yeah, pretty great.

>>54665809
My group finished up a dungeon, went home and caroused for awhile. Now they're trying to decide whether they want to hunt down a dragon or go investigate rumors of treasure to the east.

>>54665828
I was going to say but didn't have time before the last thread got overrun by The Schism That Shall Not Be Named, your game and the module sound awesome! Reminder that encounter sighting distance is 20-80 feet though, so presumably PCs could theoretically escape even after the so to speak doomsday timer if they spike/Hold a lot of doors, Turn heavily and so on? Maybe not from Spectres though.

(Don't get me wrong -- from your description it sounds like you were already putting the encounters at the right range, I was just thinking of that one thing you said about staying down too long)

>>54665809
the PCs Thermopylae'd my encounter

I'm not going to link to anything because I don't want to import the 'tism, but to the anons who asked last thread:

The Cleric class came about because Dave Fant's character Baron Fant, the Baron of Blackmoor and thus one of the good guys, got bitten by a vampire and became Sir Fang, also a vampire. It turned out that his powers were stupid brutal and actually a bit unbalancing, so one of the guys on the good side, requested that he be allowed to play a Van Helsing-type vampire hunter, which he was. The character usually cited as the cleric in question is Mike Carr's priest Bishop Carr, but that probably isn't correct for various reasons.

This is probably the best place to start if you want to dig deep into this shit: http://blackmoormystara.blogspot.co.nz/2011/01/bishop-carr-first-d-cleric.html

>>54665809
They kicked 3 different hornet's nests at the same time and are currently caught between:
A technospartan garrison that is low on supplies and thinks they're under attack due to explosions the party is responsible for.
A chromelitch who was allied to the technospartans but the party surprise threw a bunch of explosives down its lab, so now its pissed at everything.
A tribe of mutant fly/ogres who were besieging the garrison and lich for desecrating their god-tower, but the explosions agitated them enough to start an all out attack.

They're probably fucked. Currently hiding in a hut arguing about if they should use the confusion to flee or to loot.

>>54667430
>explosions the party is responsible for
Is there any other kind?

>>54667534
Not in my experience. I'm counting when things try to blow them up as at least part their fault.

It was pretty fun though.

>>54665777
>That image
You know the rules, OP

>>54667613
Shhhhh. The image is secretly about him.

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>>54665809
I think it went pretty great! I ran a public game at a bar for free drinks and had 4 random people show up. It was the first time playing a RPG for 2 of them and for the other 2 it was their first time playing an OSR game. They made an effort to focus on things to steal and sought to avoid enemies rather than fighting them. I had one of them map (pic attached) and I think it really made them focus on what parts they had explored and had yet to explore.

I ran the module detailed below:
http://melancholiesandmirth.blogspot.com/2017/08/dungeon1-steeples-of-erythroxyl.html

How do you guys do knowledge checks?

>>54660771
>Do you have any sauce or reading on that? I would love to read up on someone's lessons and experiences learned from that.
Unfortunately I don't have any canned reading on hand, but a lot of it can be derived from common sense. A megadungeon level conventionally covers or mostly covers one page of 5 squares/inch paper; that makes for between 100-200 rooms. It's obviously unreasonable to expect PCs to dig through all of that in order to level up, even if most of the rooms are empty as the early random stocking tables imply; moreover, it doesn't leave room for other groups to expand exploration into later (as you yourself noted). It's also nice in and of itself to have levels be expansive and mysterious.

Similarly it only makes sense that new creatures would eventually move in if a level became too cleared -- or just if something is going down in the levels below that causes a disruption in the status quo, like the orcs migrating from their level in Dungeon Meshi because the Great Red Dragon becomes active.

Since loot requirements to level up increase very rapidly you normally don't have to worry about players grinding low levels too much, either; if they do end up doing so, or if you're just worried they will (it might be easier to declare such a rule upfront at the start of the campaign), you can just use the rule from OD&D about gaining fractional XP from loot gained on too-shallow levels, so for instance a level 4 character exploring level 3 would get only 75% XP for his treasure, and on level 2, 50%. That'll push them right the fuck on as soon as they can. (The converse, lower-leveled parties exploring levels "too deep" for them, is never a problem; that's a risk/reward tradeoff, pushing their luck, and it's totally fair to attempt since they're in horrible danger the whole time.)

>>54667807
Oh, and another thing I forgot: I *think* but don't know that the 3-4x multiplier just comes from estimation based on the map size and various people's experience of running games -- how much loot players miss, how many PCs tend to die and such; trial and error, basically, to find the sweet spot between too much and not enough required risk and exploration. Does it make sense to expect the PCs to explore a quarter of the map? One-third? How much hidden shit are they liable to miss, or just fail at getting for whatever reason?

And of course it's long-established refereeing practice to just draw in a new secret door leading to a hitherto-unknown(=just-drawn) sublevel and pretend it was always there and previous players just missed it. You could even give new PCs a treasure map leading to this door as their initial impetus to enter the dungeon. (And of course you can do the exact same thing should previous parties genuinely miss part of a level, or some good loot.)

>>54667807
>100-200 rooms on a single level
Oh yikes, no. The first level wouldn't be any bigger than 20x20 squares. I don't think 100 rooms would be breached until maybe way, WAY deeper down.

>>54667664
Or it's about people who get upset by 2e.
It's pretty ambiguous.

>>54667782

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr2iBbApeq0

>>54668133
More precisely: how do you handle players asking for information?

Got a few questions that I hope you guys can answer.

1) I have literal B/X D&D. Should I use a retroclone like Labyrinth Lord or LotFP for ease of use?

2) I also have the literal Rules Cyclopedia. How does this compare to B/X. Are there pros and cons or is one better than the other?

3) I have some AD&D both 1e and 2e. I understand that they can be blended. What are popular ways to do this? How do you personally mix them?

4) Between B/X, BECMI/RC, and AD&D which is the best to introduce a group to?

Thank you for any and all answers in advance.

>>54668277
If it's reasonable for them to know, you just tell them.
(More wiggle rooms at higher levels, as with everything.)
If it's easy for them to find out, you just tell them.
If it's tedious to find out, you narrate finding out and then tell them.

If it really doesn't matter, you can just say "Your character knows."
Not all in-game knowledge need be out-of-game knowledge.

If you can't be assed to answer, and you know they aren't a cunt, tell them to make something up.

>>54668312
LL is identical to Bx, armor and Cleric spells aside.
LotFP makes some wild departures in the combat rules, and is actually slightly harder to use.

Rules Cyclopedia has some fucking stuff in it, but there's essentially no harm in using both.
Regardless of your choice, DO NOT CONSULT THE BOOKS DURING PLAY.

Blending AD&D and 2e takes exactly no effort. They are 98% compatible.
You probably patch any discrepancies by mistake without noticing them.

BECMI. Those books are a lot of things, but you can learn it just be reading them.
That said, all of them are easy to teach. My recommendation is AD&D.

>>54667980
>The first level wouldn't be any bigger than 20x20 squares.
Okay, well, I don't know why exactly you're set on that, but it's still big enough to fit a hundred 20' square rooms, so with a dense layout you'd probably end up with at least 30-50 individual rooms unless they're preposterously cavernous on average. On the other hand, if you use 10' walls you won't end up with much space at all; pic related is a 21x21 dungeon I cooked up quickly on donjon.bin.sh as an example.

It's your game, of course, but I might still advise you to reconsider, since you want to run a large persistent dungeon; that dungeon in the picture doesn't look too mega, does it?

Oh, and either way I did find some links to reading for you; these are the tags for Jeff Rients' new and old megadungeon campaigns run online, respectively. (And by the way, if someone knows how to make Blogspot start with the oldest post on top, let me the fuck know.) Rients is an OSR fixture and good at the format, so hopefully you'll find something worth reading.

http://jrients.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/Vaults%20of%20Vyzor
http://jrients.blogspot.co.nz/search/label/A%20Surfeit%20of%20Lampreys

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>>54668396
FUCK I forgot the picture like a mong. Here it is.

>>54668312
>1) I have literal B/X D&D. Should I use a retroclone like Labyrinth Lord or LotFP for ease of use?
You should not. There is 100% no reason to use LL if you have the real books, and LotFP is an edgy-guy remake of B/X that again, you shouldn't start with if you're unfamiliar with this stuff and have the option to use the real B/X.

>2) I also have the literal Rules Cyclopedia. How does this compare to B/X. Are there pros and cons or is one better than the other?
The Rules Cyclopedia is more complete, covers more levels, shits on the Thief skill progression and has a by-the-book combat round rule that's so ridiculous almost nobody even notices it, but also has a ton of extra content like monks (called Mystics), Weapon Mastery and other good stuff.
For *your purposes* just using Moldvay Basic to start is probably the best way, as it's very light and digestible and doesn't bother you with any of the shit you need later, but personally the RC is my favorite edition of D&D period, so I'd move to that eventually with some judicious fixes implemented from B/X. Whether you do the same or just tack Expert on as you get comfortable is really a matter of taste.

>3) I have some AD&D both 1e and 2e. I understand that they can be blended. What are popular ways to do this? How do you personally mix them?
Run 1E. Avoid 2E rules like the plague, except kits if you like them. Use 2E settings if you like those. That's the best way I know.

>4) Between B/X, BECMI/RC, and AD&D which is the best to introduce a group to?
Unquestionably Moldvay Basic. Mentzer Basic comes in second; it's pretty universally reviled as an inferior Moldvay here but if nobody who's going to be playing including you knows anything at all about the rules or roleplaying, it's the superior teaching product IMO. Plus the art's better.

Was just reading the previous thread and damn, the guy could apply "a fighters skills are needed" but he couldn't apply "a rangers skills are needed" as a survivalist, guide, or scout?

Like come on, son. Even before you set foot in the dungeon you need to get there safely.

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I don't want to give Clerics spells, but keep them with supernatural powers that are similar to what they can do. I'm thinking giving them a sort of supernatural healer, warding against evil, divination magic kind of suite of abilities.

Is there anything here that I'm missing?

>>54668856
Could we not rehash this? I'm not saying I disagree, but try not to drag any given old thread's spergout into the new thread. Nobody wins.

>>54668388
>Regardless of your choice, DO NOT CONSULT THE BOOKS DURING PLAY.

Why not?

>>54668982

Part of one's job as the DM is to make rulings. You should get used to doing it without the safety net of the rulebook. If you make a mistake or misremember, that's okay. Fix it next time. Eventually, you won't need the rulebook.

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>>54668511
Sixteen Hit Dice
eciD itH neetxiS

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>>54668982
Bogs play down to hell and back, and the game is simple enough that you know everything* offhand.
*statlines and tables aside, which both belong on your notes or screen

>>54668946
They also tend to talk to god or at least get really fucking high.

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I made a blog for LotFP. Mostly consists of Adventurer Builds, images I find intriguing, media suggestions and supplements I've made or that have caught my eye. I guess check it out, if you're into that sort of thing.

https://repositoryofthewyrd.blogspot.com/

>>54668396
>>54668410
You realize it's not going to be single floor right?

Anyways, thank you for the links, I'll read up on it.

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Alright, here we go.

At the beginning of each combat round, each class rolls their Combat Die. The combat die is based on class.
>Fighters get d10
>Clerics get d8
>Rogues get d6
>Wizards get d4

Add your strength to this roll. If you're using a light weapon, like a knife or club you get +1 but have low damage. If you're using a medium weapon, no bonus. Heavy weapons grant -1 to the roll, but you get the most damage.

The highest score goes first. You can choose to attack or defend yourself. Attacking rolls d20 vs armor class, roll damage on a hit and all that. Defending lets you add 1d6 to your AC for this round. You can step in front of someone to take attacks for them, but obviously if a monster has a higher score then you, you can't defense anyone against that monster's attacks. If your score is at least 6, you can attack with advantage OR give all your attackers disadvantage this round. If you get a score of 10 or better, you can attack/attack, defend/defend, or attack and defend. Basically two moves.

>What this means
Fighters almost always get to go first and get a 50% chance base to attack with advantage. At the start of a round, everyone will be attacking with big chances and bonuses to hit, and after that things will become a desperate struggle which I think is fitting.

This is a write up of that idea seed from last thread. Please rate, and offer suggestions for improvement.

>>54669371
What problem does this solve?

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>>54669415
That's a good one.

>>54669254
>You realize it's not going to be single floor right?
Of course I do. But if you want to run according to the classic megadungeon conception where PCs "belong" on the dungeon level equal to their character levels, you need some horizontal space. There's also no real, obvious reason why vertical space (e.g. making 40 levels down and expecting the PCs to still be level 1 on the fourth dungeon level) is superior to horizontal.

Either way, good luck! I hope I haven't sounded too dogmatic so you've taken offense, I'm just trying to provide play-based advice.

>>54669188
I appreciate the design of the website. Haven't played LotFP though so I can't really comment much on that part.

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>>54669415

>Fighters have more impact in combat
>Classes that are meant to be ok at fighting (clerics, rogues) feel alright at fighting
>Less modifier bloat
>Easier for new players (just roll your combat die for everything)
>Combat is dynamic, every round has new initiative so sometimes you go first and sometimes you go last
>More things to do in a fight (defend)

Just a few. I also liked the idea of giving each class their combat die as their basic damage die to simplify further, and would also be the die rolled to add to AC, so Fighters are still really good at everything and magic users are still kind of shit at fighting.

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>>54669444

Cant find an echo resounding in the trove. Where did it go?

>>54669547
That's because it's in the wrong spot.
It ought to be in the Supplements for Labyrinth Lords.

Instead, it's in
03_OSR Games |||| Sine Nomine Publishing ||| Red Tide

>>54669501
Sounds neat.

>>54669547

Wasn't it under Sine Nomine press, or did it get moved?

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>>54669478
Thanks dude. I tried to make it aesthetically pleasing.

>plebs think they're playing True AD&D™ by ignoring 2nd Edition
For what purpose

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>>54670138
>>54668071

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Time to shill. It's another shitty set of tables for generating NPCs related in one fashion or another to your player characters.

http://www.occultesque.com/2017/08/generating-familiar-npcs.html

Any requests going forward? The game design stuff gets a -lot- more views than the xd100 table content, so I assume people are attracted to that more, for better or worse.

>>54668388
Why AD&D? Is the Rules Cyclopedia standalone?

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>DM gives us plenty of opportunities to avoid a hard fight
>we walk into it anyways
>it's an ogre
>we beat the ogre without casualties

nice

>>54670850
Rules Cyclopedia is BECMI BUT MORE

>>54670955
>Rules Cyclopedia is BECMI BUT LESS*
Fixed

>>54670966
>>Rules Cyclopedia is BECM* BUT LESS*
>Fixed

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Last thread people were discussing alternate fluff options for classes. Personally, I really like Clerics being something other then just not!Paladins of a fantasy religion. This also does not have to be the ONLY type of Cleric in a setting, just an alternate way to think of one.

Imagine something like this;
>Ascetic monks and wise men
>Must live outside of society and live off alms
>Shaolin style kung fu body exercises explains d8 hit dice
>Healing powers come from wholeness of mind and body, maybe their hands just 'heal' people inexplicably
>Can command evil beings to flee or be undone and they must obey from character's purity or personal aura of great strength
>Not always chose this life; weird kids with milky birthmarks sometimes forced to live like this
>May not worship a God but may hold a concept in high regard, like detachment from the universe, reincarnation, becoming one with the healing force that runs through all of their order, etc.

>>54665777
Fun fact : some chinese martial schools actually did that to students they considered unworthy.

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So none of you are gay enough to make dragons that don't breath fire, right? Nobody on /osrg/ is gay enough to have stupid frost and acid dragons and shit, probably based on color, right? Because that shit is bad and you shouldn't do it.

>>54665777
You didn't even change the fucking acronym

>>54666352
Unfortunately for the party, there are absolutely no doors in the crypt. Maybe they all got rotted away already.

There are plenty of tunnels to run away along, and the worst of the zombie hordes usually won't be ahead of them if they don't backtrack, but the map has a lot of dead ends.

We'll see how they manage.

How are your starting adventurers' living accommodations. Good, bad, rural, urban? Do they even live together when they aren't out on a quest? Do they have neighbors? I have mine holed up in a cramped tenement building with families or other adventuring parties. It's dim, dusty, and damp, but it's said that sharing adversity creates stronger bonds.

>>54673672
My party is camping up in a small kobold settlement at the top of a megadungeon they're exploring. It's some pretty squalid shit, even all of the standard equipment not available, no one that could afford buying all the loot they keep finding, and no bars or whorehouses that could handle thousand-gold carousing.

They're going to need to find the drow city lower down to do most of those things.

>two /osrg/

Why

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>>54673699

Are these retconned draconic Kobolds or the original (and best) dog faced Kobolds (see pic)?

>>54674083
The other forgot to announce itself at the end of the old thread. Nobody knew it existed.

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>>54673334 Skerples is exactly that gay.
One of his dragons breathes cannon balls.

>>54674083
two is better than one

>>54674147
Dragonbolds, of course. Dogbolds are shit - just even weaker goblins with no racial identity of their own at all.

>>54673699
>no kobold whorehouses
Don't let the towergirl anons hear this, you will suddenly have an influx of mad entrepreneur pimp knights showing up.

>>54673699
Theyre unable to leave the dungeon?

>>54676056
You forgot an important bit:
>that could handle thousand-gold carousing

Would you pay thousand gold pieces for a night with a kobold whore?

>>54676149
No, but the entire surrounding countryside isn't much better. The closest legitimate city is a week's journey away, and even that's not too big. So they might as well stick to the kobolds for as long as they have any business in the dungeon.

>>54676167
For -A- kobold whore? No. For all the kobold whores in town? Sure.

>>54673699
>thousand-gold carousing.
The fuck are they doing? Buying rounds?
>going to need to find the drow city
Neurotic elven gigolo. Not even once.

>>54677110
>The fuck are they doing? Buying rounds?
This is a good question actually. If you use carousing rules, then what kind of a party would you get with a thousand gold pieces? As a player you'd buy experience with it, but what does the -character- get?

>>54677167
1000gp is enough to outfit four knights with war horses and plate. That's a baronial obligation. A party at that level of expense is something that would leave a crater.

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>>54677296
What level is Mansa Musa?

How much do you pay characters for a quest?

>>54677750
"Find this particular shit for me/us/them and you keep any other shit you find. Here's 3d6x10 coin to get yourself some supplies."

>>54677167
>A high-level party is throwing the mother of all keggers. They've hired you to find catering, a suitable location, orc strippers, all the dwarf nog you can haul, and enough people to make the party worth it.

>>54677825
isnt there a better formula? like
3d6x10+20 per player character

Do you let your players roleplay downtime activities like taking some beers at the bar and buying stuff? if not how do you mange it?

>>54677937
No.

>>54677923
Who gives a shit? That's petty pocket change for getting food and other garbage.

>>54677167
>what kind of a party would you get with a thousand gold pieces? As a player you'd buy experience with it, but what does the -character- get?
To expand on this >>54677296, it's extremely hard to determine questions like this for the simple yet frustrating reason that the D&D price lists are totally fucked.

For instance: if we assume that the rules about gold pieces are correct, i.e. that they are indeed gold and ten of them make a pound, then 1000gp equals 100 pounds of fine gold, more than two thousand pounds of silver. That's enough to build this castle and have six hundred left over: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orford_Castle (make sure you scroll down to the old drawing of the entire works and don't just assume it means the keep)

However, given the costs of castle building in various editions that's obviously wrong, so we have to assume that the gp rules were written by an idiot with no concept of the value of gold.

Instead, if we assume the gold piece is gold but equates to one gold noble, then the individual coin is worth 6/8 or one-third of a pound silver; the 1000gp are a more moderate £333/6/8. That's still a fuck-ton of money, keeping in mind that one suit of plate armor in the mid-14th century cost about £7 and a cheap sword at the same time cost six pence(!). A pipe of best wine would set you back about £5, and that's 126 *gallons* of top-shelf claret or burgundy. An average wine would be half that or less, and the price of ale was commonly fixed a penny to the gallon; so you see that even with this gp value the party is an exercise in logistics that would probably take weeks and special calls on merchants to arrange. (A whole ox cost 13 shillings in the same period, a pig two shillings, and a sheep was 1/5 or if you prefer, 17sp. Two chickens for a penny, sixpence for a goose, two dozen eggs per penny. There need be no lack of food at the party.)

>>54677956
You only stop giving a shit in magical tea party storygames. You're supposed to track individual coins for a reason.

>>54677347
1/10th of a # of gold (1 gp) is ~$1853 and 2 bits
Lower bound estimate is that he had $400 billion
215,836,938 xp?

In AD&D, that's a level 859 Fighter

>>54658427
>>54659812
Assuming average CON, average up, and worst case damage, he back survive 21 back-to-back falls from orbit
Or 25 falls, if he's a level 612 Paladin

>>54677998
As an addendum to this, if we assume that "gp" is just a remarkably consistent typo and is actually supposed to mean silver pieces, a lot of stuff makes far more sense. In that case the 1000sp party equates to £4/3/4, which still gets you a tun of ale (252 gallons), a puncheon (83 gallons) of wine, and a pile of meat large enough to stun a band of giants. That's still an insane party, but it's not the kind which constitutes a novel engineering problem.

>>54678039
No. I track light, time and encumbrance. I don't give a shit about coin weight unless it's found in a chest or some such thing. I am busy playing D&D, not Monopoly.

>>54678097
Coins are heavy, if you're not tracking their weight then you're not really tracking encumbrance.

>>54677825
>for me/us/them
https://youtu.be/-abUtRbUS_U

>>54668312
>1) I have literal B/X D&D. Should I use a retroclone like Labyrinth Lord or LotFP for ease of use?
I actually find it considerably easier to reference B/X that LL. Being split into two books is less of an issue than you might think it would be, and I find the layout easier to navigate. Also, LL puts the spells in alphabetically order, mixing the levels together instead of dividing it by level, which I fucking cannot stand.

>I also have the literal Rules Cyclopedia. How does this compare to B/X.
The BE parts of BECMI and B/X are mostly identical in terms of rules. But the CM parts add on additional rules so that the game starts getting heavier. RC is essentially BECM rolled into a single book, so it ends up being crunchier than I like.

But it's still mostly just B/X with extra stuff. It has material covering past 14th level (which is entirely unnecessary, in my opinion). The thief skills are even shittier, as they're stretched across 36 levels instead of just 14. The cleric spell progression is regularized (I approve of this). And then, like I said, there's extra shit like weapon mastery (I approve of giving fighters a boost, but prefer smooth peanut butter), some bullshit prestige-y classes, and so forth.

>I have some AD&D both 1e and 2e. I understand that they can be blended.
There are very few obstacles to just lifting shit from one edition to put in the other. 2e basically just takes 1e, cleans it up a bit (tossing out some of the bullshit clutter rules), rolls some of the supplemental stuff (like non-weapon proficiencies) into the core, and makes a few tweaks.

Wait... were you asking how to blend AD&D and Basic? Labyrinth Lord's Advanced Edition Companion does that. AD&D and Basic do still have the same core rules though. Drop the hit die of everything in AD&D by one die size (to a minimum of d4). AD&D's gonna have extra classes and spells and shit that Basic doesn't have (and extra bullshit restrictions, stats and fiddly rules...

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>>54670804
Aw, your tables aren't shitty. Ocultesque is the best blog that gets shilled on /osr/.

My favorite blog posts of yours so far are inter-dimensional portals, adventure hooks and secret doors. I like the xd100 table content, so I hope you keep making more.

On what level would you put a spell to make yourself smell and taste unappetizing? Wild beasts, vampires, rot grubs, all will avoid you.

(Reverse the spell to fill someone with pheromones that make them seem like really good eating.)

>>54678597
>AD&D's gonna have extra classes and spells and shit that Basic doesn't have (and extra bullshit restrictions, stats and fiddly rules...
...but most of those aren't that important to the game. If you're using an AD&D module or something, I'd just convert percentile strength 18/whatever to 18 strength and be done with it.

Armor class is a bit different in AD&D. It starts at 10 rather than 9, but it inserts an extra space for studded leather, so chainmail and platemail have the same AC as in Basic (AC 5 and 3, respectively), but unarmored and leather are both a point higher (10 and 8 vs. 9 and 7). But so what? The 1e Monster Manual was actually made doing armor class the old way (it was made before the PHB changed it to starting at 10) and few people even noticed. 1 point of difference isn't gonna sink the game, so you could just use AC numbers straight out of AD&D if you wanted.

As far as the additional classes and such, Labyrinth Lord's AEC is made to be compatible with its standard rules (which are basically just B/X with a few tweaks), so if you're worried about converting shit, just use the AEC versions. But really, the only big issue is hit dice (every class but magic-users get bumped up a level going from Basic to AD&D, but AEC uses the smaller hit dice of Basic).

Really, if you know Basic, you can pretty easily just look over AD&D and lift what you want.

>4) Between B/X, BECMI/RC, and AD&D which is the best to introduce a group to?
B/X hands down.

>>54678097
you need those coins to survive man, those are the reason PC go to adventure

>>54678597
>some bullshit prestige-y classes
What?

>>54678039
>magical tea party faggots
>not like my machomath mangames!

>>54678803
But unironically.

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>>54678768
Coin and treasure. If the emphasis is on found treasure and not buckets of coin lying around, then I don't really need to give a shit about coin weight in dungeon.

Take treasure to safety, pawn it off, get shit load of coin in town. Buy/save/invest etc.

>not tracking all encumbrance so that players have to decide what to take and leave behind
Do you just hate the resource and risk management elements that are at the core of old school D&D?

>>54678823
>do you even combat matrix bro?
You do you, I just always think its funny when people try to make their pretend wizard games seem hyper masculine and then make subjective judgments about other pretend games that are less so.

>>54678789
In RC at certain levels characters can basically take new class paths of sorts, like Avengers (Chaotic paladins basically) or Mystics,, instead of continuing their normal progression.

>>54678789
Was thinking of druids and mystics, though I guess only druids really fit that description. It's more like: "Bullshit bonus classes, one of which is prestige-y."

>>54678712
I gauge that Leomund's Sordid Stank should be a level 2 spell. Not least because spell level 2 is paupered.

>>54678935
Oh yeah, and >>54678915

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>>54668312
Labyrinth Lord vs B/X

What is a good read about what is inside a house and dressings for everything?

Would mythic gm emulator help?

What do you think of rolling D20 under for combat?

>>54678909
Not that guy, but it's not really "hyper masculine", though. That's just a strawman to make him look retarded since it obviously isn't macho to play elfgames (although surprising numbers of military dudes play RPGs).

What it IS is nerdy as all fuck, in a calculators-and-pocket-protectors way, as opposed to a prissy fancy-dress tea party of histrionic wannabe actors. Like, Chainmail tells you to make *a wooden dowel* to calculate cannonfire effects with. You can practically smell the coke-bottle glasses.

In other words, he's not really hyping himself or even necessarily calling his preferences superior, but there's a definite difference.

>>54678712
Level 2.
Level 1 fits better, but level 1 actually has good spells.
If that were learned at level 2, it would usually see use.

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>>54678935
>though I guess only druids really fit that description
All of the core classes had blurbs about different ways to go after level 9.

>>54678977
>>54679098
Isn't the AD&D spell that hides magic auras/creates fake ones level 2, as well? That seems like an obvious point of comparison.

>>54679148
Nystul's Magic Aura is a 1st level MU spell.
I'd sooner compare it to Change Self, a 1st level Illusionist spell.

>>54671415
Champions of Mystara is I but more

>>54669188
Fucking 10/10 OSR pentagram! I really appreciate the sense of aesthetics you have it reminds me of an art zine. I wish you'd have more words on screen but that's just because I want to read more.

>>54670804
I think it's because tables are kinda generic, my non-table game design posts get more views as well. I really liked your Fishers of Men post and would like to see more foreign and weird mercenaries/assassin.

>>54677937
Se

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>>54679500
Thanks dude. I'm definitely more of a visual person than a writer, but eventually I want to have play reports that read as well as Anxiety Wizards and lists of odd items and artifacts for people to use.

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>>54677937
Accidentally misclicked, before I posted. See the attached PDF.

>>54679050
misread this as inside a horse, and was incredibly excited to why you would need to know that

>>54679634
A table for quick organ dressing in hideous monstrosities. How many stomachs does this hellish nightspawn have in its bloated belly?

>>54679702
I mean, I have notes for a dungeon inside of a giant whale/sea beast. They usually have 1 stomach but generally have around 4 cavernous intestines where you can find a boat.

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How do people feel about ACKs' Cleric spell progression? I haven't taken a good look at it until now, but I think it should be shifted up a level.

>>54680018
>How do people feel about ACKs' Cleric spell progression?
I don't know anything about it, but does it give them a spell on level 1? Because if so it needs fixing, yeah.

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>>54680044
>does it give them a spell on level 1?
Nope.

>>54680090
Offhand this looks identical to the OD&D/BX Cleric spell progression, even including the wonky level 6. I approve.

why the hell are clerics in parties of murderers, anyway?

>>54680288
They have their reasons. Maybe they're going down there to find some old relics, or to fund a new roof for the church. Something worth it to band up with all manner of weirdos and killers.

>>54665831

>Accidentally diplomacize a planned combat encounter into a powerful ally without meaning too

Pretty good.

>>54680288
Pantheon is really screwed up. The options are "Hedonism and Purity", "Wealth and Insincerity", "Violence and Lethargy", or "Manipulation and Vengeance"

We always hear about how great a guide for DMing the 1st edition DMG is, but one another thing I like about it is how it manages the combat tables and undead turning and shit. Namely, nearly none of this is brought up in Player's Handbook: if the players only read that one (and new ones probably would), they'll get a good idea of what their characters can do and what combat options they have, but have no clue how easy or hard it is to actually manage it in practice. They genuinely don't know whether an attack roll hit, or the undead turning was sufficient, or the saving throw passed.

I feel like this is a really good way to promote roleplaying and tension, but maybe it's just me?

>>54680488
>Name That Obvious Reference
It's not obvious to me...

>>54680288

Why did Friar Tuck hang out with the Merry Men?

>>54680648
Merry Men are freedom fighters that give their money for the poor. A far cry from a greedy, cold-blooded murderhobo.

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http://gloomtrain.blogspot.com/2015/03/cult-class.html

>>54680288
Gods tarry in the pits.
Where else would Clerics be heard?

>>54680746

And to the lords of the land, they're thieving bandits. Friar Tuck's nominal boss, the Bishop of Canterbury works for Sir Guy of Gisbourne and Prince John.

"Greedy, cold-blooded murderhobo" is a definition born of which side of the fence you're on. Robin of Lockesley kills plenty of knights and soldiers who are just doing their jobs, and are ignorant of the larger political stakes at play in the story.

Friar Tuck was a renowned swordsman, and was right there alongside Robin, killing his countrymen (for reasons he believed in, of course).

Not every party is going to be psychotic mercenaries who care for nothing but lining their own pockets, and not every Cleric is going to be some pious holy man pacifist. He might be a firebrand zealot who wishes to punish heretics as an example to all those who would stray from the faith.

Cleric =/= pacifist. Good likewise =/= non-violent.

>>54680288
Just because someone follows a god doesn't mean they can't be just as bad as the worst killer.

>>54680746
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlggmcAzzXQ

>>54680288
Take treasure from the evil heathens in the depths and use it for offerings to the gods/higher up in the church.

Maybe they're there specifically for confessions on call. It's a little corrupt, but the gods don't care about a few kobolds or anything so long as someone intercedes to explain.

>>54680968
>Friar Tuck was a renowned swordsman
Then he's not a cleric, he's a fighter.

>>54681035

The restriction against using swords doesn't apply to historical characters, since it's born of ahistoric nonsense.

>>54681035
This, he didn't even turn the undead ONCE

>>54681035
>>54681061
OD&D clerics were permitted non-magic swords.

>>54681101

To add on to this, Gygax makes the claim that Clerics are inspired by religious orders, like the Knights Templar and the Teutonic Knights, both of which used swords in addition to any blunt, anti-cavalry weapon you care to name from the period.

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>>54680535
Remember to roll all the dice for everyone behind your screen and to scorn players who've read past the introduction of the DMG.
If you want to kick it up a notch, you can refuse to play with people who've read the PHB.

>>54681182
The most '90s way to play.

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>>54681244
>Mike gave a fascinating account of a typical early D&D game, with a peculiar detail that I’d never heard before.
>Gary never used maps or minis: maps and minis were Dave Arneson’s thing.
>Gary ran games in his office, which was provided with chairs, a couch, and file cabinets.
>While playing, Gary would open the drawers of the file cabinet and sit behind them so that the players COULD NOT SEE HIM.
>They only experienced the Dungeon Master as a disembodied voice.

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>>54680090
>>54680120
Offhand this looks identical to the OD&D/BX Cleric spell progression, even including the wonky level 6. I disapprove.

I don't see any reason why clerics need to gain access to 3 new spell levels over the course of just 2 level gains, or to get 5th level spells before magic-users get 4th level spells.* I prefer the regularized gain see in Mentzer.


*At 40k XP magic-users have 3/2/2. At 50k XP clerics have 2/2/2/1/1. Let me line those up...

3/2/2
2/2/2/1/1

>>54675130
>with no racial identity of their own
They're the nasty fucks who get you.
http://blogofholding.com/?p=3814

>>54665809
I haven't been able to play for the last 6 months, now that I'm actually allowed free time now I'm looking to start a game back up within the next few weeks, might advertise here I don't know yet.

>>54681792

What have to go SIMPLIER

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>>54681792
>3e

>>54681792
>Dragonborn
>Tiefling
dropped

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>>54681792
Here's the updated version.

what do you guys think of mythras classic fantasy? have you played it?

>>54682368

It's like they say, you can't polish a turd.

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>>54682455

>>54682398
I think it belong here as much as Dungeon Fantasy RPG does.

>>54682476

Okay, technically you CAN polish a turd, but it doesn't make it worth anything.

To me, what OSR dungeon crawling represents is captured most strongly in Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. Friends, far from perfect, with tragedy and pain in their past, overcoming embodiments of evil and suffering and rage, overcoming the eldritch nightmares of Lovecraft just by being too fucking hardcore, and by having each other's backs.

This is the kind of feel I want to capture. Dungeons as physical manifestations of the mind, and monsters and traps as anxieties, fears, hangups, etc.

When a player character dies, I want it to matter. I don't mean in some narrative sense, where I want the death to be glorious or dramatic. But I want the players to be sad to see the character go. When they triumph, I want them to feel like badasses.

But the Darkest Dungeon adventurer builds in >>54669188 made me think. Is there any way to actually represent mental illness and such in an RPG, and in particular in OSR, in a way that is compelling and interesting rather than annoying, offensive, and distracting?

>>54669501

>Lets just remove all nuance from equipment etc.

What makes a fighter better in a fight is his equipment, and maybe one number, not the die he gets to roll.

Nah. Sounds shit desu.

>>54682624
Just sneak it into the Wandering Monster and Reaction Roll tables.
Maybe the room descriptions, if you feel confident in your subtlety.

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>>54681792
>>54682368
>All classes advance at the same speed

Ugh.

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>>54682624
VotE has some neat mental changes for being in a cave too long.

Are there any dungeons themed after the seven deadly sins?

>>54683016
There are eight sins, broseph.

>>54683024
A hidden eighth dungeon is also good.

>>54672599

... the fluff of a cleric changes by god regardless. Thats kind of assumed. I know you guys hate 2e but have you never read legends and lore?

>>54683101
2e has the best clerics, no contest. Anyone that disputes this is a grognard B/X fanboy and a moron.

>>54673672

Im my game we got ahold of some valuable$$$ art and traded it to the mayor for land, on which we had a small house(which i eventually converted to a church) built. The original plan was to stay there when the adventure looked to be centered around that starting town, but then i managed to convert more than 10% of the village to my religion(long story) and things accelerated with a war in the north to such a degree that Athena literally sent me a vission telling me to deal with it, so we left it to some non-leveled priests and headed out.

>>54683016
>>54683024
Being wasteful.
Leaving your mind in the gutter.
Materialistic obsession.
Ignoring common mistakes.
Throwing pity parties.
Being too upset.
Doing pointless things.
Letting things fall apart.

>>54677946

Cancer.

>>54676167
Why did your Blue Board appropriate image get removed?

>>54677998

Assume that gold is more common in these settongs and/or that gold pieces are actually an alloy of gold. Problem solved.

Remember, at 10/pound it only takez about 3 billion of the fuckers to match current total gold, which sounds like a lot, but when you consider a level one nobodu could start the game with like 60, easy, and adult dragons tend to have up to hundreds of thousands of gold pieces alone, it becomes way smaller, especially since thats the total TODAY, and we're mining a LOT thanks to modern prospecting and drilling techniques

>>54682624

The Nightmares Underneath has some stuff you can take from it.

Basically "dungeons" are eldritch things that form from human misery and the shit inside doesn't have to make sense on a physical level. Being in one, or a succession of them, too long makes you crazy and there's a table to roll on.

For use of the game itself, it's a mix of OSR and storygame principles, but there's plenty to take out and use in your own homebrew stuff.

The art-free version is free on Drivethrurpg.

>>54683302
>Assume that gold is more common in these settongs and/or that gold pieces are actually an alloy of gold
Don't they all make that assumption?

>>54683201
That's actually a solid list to jump off from, thanks.

>>54683201

Numbers 7 and 8 are the bane of my life.

But 7 probably dogs most of the people who post on chan boards.

>>54681061

It also depends on god, athena in 2e allowed long swords and spears, ammong others. If you're not mixing up equipment lists for clerics based on god you're being lazy and boring.

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>>54680580
Aqua, Eris, Chomusuke, and Regina.

>>54683141

I love the spherez system. I feel like some gods are a bit too powerful(Athena gives all the best spheres(combat protection healing divination and one or two others) as major spheres, plus long swords and spears to give you slashing and piercing? RIP), but even then you're still limited, and the best results often come from stuff you'd never think to use(i got some great effects out of Chant, which gives a +1 to everyone you like in range and -1 to everyone you don't in range, duration of concentration)

>>54683354

He said fine gold. From the numbers he was saying I don't think he was making that assumption.

>>54683141
>a grognard B/X fanboy and a moron
Uh, guilty as charged? How did you think that would be an effective insult in this thread?

>>54683975
He's right though. For all the 2e splats shoveled out, the Cleric material was consistently very good.

>>54683302
>Assume that gold is more common in these settongs and/or that gold pieces are actually an alloy of gold. Problem solved.
The problem with assuming it's alloy is that would make the coins lighter, or else bigger to a silly degree. Whenever you start involving kludge explanations like that it just makes the situation make increasingly little sense.

Besides, why do that when you can just cut the weight of them? I feel like being wedded to the absurd 10/lb. rule doesn't really give any benefits.

>>54684035
>ration has a 1/10 chance to kill you
I liked everything about this except that line, which makes the rod a terrible choice. If I used it I'd just have that be the chance of the fishing line being snapped by the whale.

>>54684025

What Cleric rules do you recommend I steal for my B/X game?

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How do you feel about weapon specialization for Fighters?

>>54682039
>What have to go SIMPLIER
Has anyone really been far as decided?

>>54684641
On one hand, it's pretty flavorful, gives them an unique edge, and plenty of good fluff - especially if you bring in the frankly ludicrous weapon (high/grand) mastery from Player's Option.

On the other hand, it also limits the loot you can utilize: you can't just pick up that +5 weapon because you're a grandmaster in something completely different.

I still like it. I don't know how to deal away with the loot problem without also getting rid of the good fluff.

>>54684100
>Besides, why do that when you can just cut the weight of them? I feel like being wedded to the absurd 10/lb. rule doesn't really give any benefits.
Other than sticking to the weight the game was playtested with, you mean. You're straying away from game balance.

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>>54684822

Well, there's a couple of ways.

For starters, you can just have a softie DM that ensures magic weapons you guys find are always tuned to whatever dumb glaive/razor/flail/scimitar weapon your fighter specialized in.

Another way is to change about the fluff of your setting a bit, maybe just state that magic weapons are magic because of their mystic materials and could be reforged in different shapes. So even if your character specializes in maces but wants to get the +3 damage vs ogres from a sword he can have it bent and rolled up into a simple ball mace by a skilled smith for a moderate cost.

The third and final way, and possible best, is to just keep the weapon specialization shallow and easy. So no level 8 Fighters with +8 to hit with swords because they put all their points into just swords, force them to spread it out a bit.

The system I am currently considering to allow for weapon specialization goes like this;
>Fighters get 2 points every level, including 1st level
>Maximum number of points is equal to their level or 4, whichever is less
>Each bonus costs 1 point; +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 to initiative, +1 to AC

This means at 1st level they'll have a +1 in two separate weapons. Maybe they go for to hit with both, or maybe they'll go with bonus damage for one and initiative with the other if they need to go first sometimes. By the time they're 4th level, they could have two maxed out weapons or a bunch of weapons with some decent bonuses. Every level past 4th they'll be specializing in weirder and more exotic weapons, maybe experimenting with doing shit like making rapiers get +4 AC for defensive fighting and daggers +4 initiative so they can slash people on the first round of combat every time if they want to, and many more. While this is a kind of boring and linear system, I think it would work well.

>>54684883
Oh, you're worried people will be able to carry ten times as much loot? Eh, I'll be honest, I've rarely seen that be a problem in play. But if you're worried about it, you can just convert a lot of the gold pieces found to the equivalent value in silver pieces. Then you're looking at 24 gp/lb. which still halves the weight, but isn't terribly far off the mark. (And on top of that it becomes more credible as well.)

>>54685085

It's also the speed at which they move, which is an important logistical consideration since moving slower means more wandering monsters.

>>54684035
Sooo how do I make a whole adventure/campaign around recipes, cooking and eating?

Some ideas:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B36UPhZyYJRSd2dxTVlJbGIxM2s/view
http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.pt/2016/07/roast-sea-lynx-in-cheese-with-gut-peach.html
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.pt/2017/07/monster-menu-all-part-1-eating-ad.html

>>54685504
>Dungeon crawl to find recipe
>Wilderness adventure to find ingredients
>City adventure to find a cook skilled enough (likely one employed by nobility)
>Eating gives you bonuses and abilities

>>54685281
I wrote a completely different answer at first (on the theme that being able to carry twice as much coin treasure probably doesn't unbalance much in practice), but realized it missed the mark: I guess what this comes down to is, I'm totally okay with the players being only realistically affected by lugging a given amount of loot -- much more okay than I am with all the money being inexplicably worthless, implausbly large gold coins and Joachimsthalers. If a given amount of gold *genuinely wouldn't* slow down the person carrying it, I don't see why he should be penalized with more wandering monsters.

>>54685504
More
http://matt-landofnod.blogspot.pt/2011/08/taking-bite-out-of-dungeon.html

Also from dndwithpornstars

Société Gustatifs
These gourmets of the Upper City bankroll expeditions to all edges of the cube--from the cliffside inns of the frozen Kraal to the renowned and sweltering breakfisheries in Drownesia's Bay of Ugly Fathers--in order to maintain and update their esteemed Guide de Cuisson et Tavernes dans le Monde Entier. Their monomaniacal project is to leave no recipe unrecorded, no rarity untasted, no chef uninterviewed and no tavern unrated. Contracts from the Société are well-paid and highly prized, and parties hoping for a commission must possess the survival skills necessary to reach the uncharted eateries at the edges of the world, as well as at least one member able to read and write and at least one whose palate is refined enough to pass the formidable Test of Seven Sauces.

>>54685751
>the formidable Test of Seven Sauces
"Boo-hoo-hoo, this is impossible! They're all just white-sauce!"
"NO! You ASSHOLE! That's a BECHAMEL! The other is a blond roux au lait!"
"But--but those are the sa--"
"Get oooouuuuuuuut"

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>>54665777
Fine wine with cheap whores

or

cheap booze with fine courtesans?

>>54686233
I'll take the good wine, that way I don't have to suffer any rich whores getting uppity later.

>>54686233
Alcohol is a poison, so I'll take the fine courtesans

>>54685751
>Société Gustatifs
That reminds me of the club in that Neil Gaiman short story who want to eat a phoenix.

how do you make a town

>>54687764

Well, first you gather a whole bunch of idiots, then you let them pick one to be mayor.

>>54687825

And then they create the Neighborhood Watch Alliance.

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What did you work on today, /osrg/?

>>54688363
Fuck all. I got laid off last week.
You?

>>54688363
My work cancelled because we have a heatwave here in Oregon and I work in a screen printing shop.

RPG wise, I've been working on my new blog and prepping for my next session of World of the Lost for LotFP.

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Why does every OSR post-apocalyptic game focus on mutants and shit? What is a good system to hack to run a Road Warrior style PA game?

>>54688451

You could probably hack Mutant Future or Star Frontiers, and ignore the parts you don't like. Though honestly, Car Wars might be best for a Road Warrior style game (and although old, is not OSR).

>>54688363
Trying to refine my social combat system into something workable. The biggest hurdle was figuring out what could be used as, essentially, "social armor". I decided that using the various Morale reactions (i.e. Hostile, Unfriendly, etc) and giving bonuses to various social "weapons" (i.e. Ad Hominem, Flattery, Browbeating, etc) depending upon the Morale of the target and the nature of the weapon (positive or negative) would be the way to go, using an already established method of determining a random NPC's emotions rather than making shit up whole cloth.

Now, as i posted here >>54688378, I'm trying to come up with good racial class names for the two major castes of mothmen, a la the ACKs-style of race-classes. I think I might use Night Stalker as the more ominous night-caste class, both because it sounds cool and is a little inside reference to some sweet old-school Magic the Gathering lore. The day-caste, though, eludes me something fierce.

I'd also like to have something more than just four main races, and I think I have an idea for a plant-like species, who'd look like a hybrid between the Protoss from StarCraft and the Draenei from World of Warcraft. Still literally just a theory at the moment, though, and I wouldn't even know where to begin with any sort of culture to form racial classes from.

>>54665809
>>54665809
Our wizard and theif got entranced by a spiral stone into removing the heart of the nearest party member and sacrificing it to a squid. Wizard casts Ekims mask (reflects gaze attacks) that due to a random previously determined mercurial effect also instantly kills one of his close aquaintances. My lvl 0 beekeeper companion goes down and the theif immediately runs over. I roll a nat 1 on my defensive roll and trip into the sand while the theif is carving up my guy... and right into a cliffhanger. So pretty great!

>>54688576
not a dm though

>>54688551

I'd be careful with the Night Stalker name. There was a serial killer in the U.S. that was called that, and someone might think you're being an edgy shit when you're not and it was just an innocent attempt to make them sound scary.

>>54688363
halfling mafia

>>54685934
>cue grogging over numale aioli story sauce, 3rd edition railroad replacement of allemand and how only true men play eating the four mother sauces

>>54688451
>Why does every OSR post-apocalyptic game focus on mutants and shit?
It's because Gamma World and to a lesser extent OSR-early derivatives like World of Thool and Planet Algol have been very influential, and that kind of "high-fantasy", for lack of a better term, postapoc is more compatible with magic-users and shit. Plus, it's not like there aren't any mutants in Fallout.

>What is a good system to hack to run a Road Warrior style PA game?
Honestly I'd go gritty realismwank for that, not OSR. If you want to do it, though, try LBB OD&D; that has the least infiltration of demihumans and stuff throughout the rules.

>>54688363
Showed the interested player How To Host A Dungeon, made most of one and am going to help them make playable levels they can dm so I get to play in the near future. Pretty excited.

>>54688363
It's 8 AM so nothing except wake up and hang my face over morning coffee yet, but I'm hoping to get some nice dungeon levels worked out later today. I want to do a game that isn't centered on a megadungeon, so instead I need a ton of keyed smaller dungeons spread out all over the hexmap.

>>54688596
I mean yeah, I know about the Ramirez stuff, but I'm also an old fart. I'm fairly certain most people haven't really associated the name with him exclusively, given the usage in Magic cards, DOTA 2, and a couple of TV series both before and after that all went down. If anyone gets bent out of shape over a name for some sweet bugdudes, y'all can go back to Dumblr and cry in your hugbox over my microaggressions.

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>>54688363
Re-structuring my Cleric/Druid/Fighter classes I'm making. Apparently because of the way I went about it their magic is going to take much longer to get, so I'm thinking about beefing it up to make more manageable.

>>54688734

I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the connection. I don't care if you use it or not, but someone with a really sensitive bum might.

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>>54688363
I got asked to run some games at a upcoming convention so that's pretty cool. Also worked on a system to make dungeons in under 15 minutes (see file attached)

>>54688551
So in your social combat system is it to the death? or to capitulation? Have you thought about using the scientific name of a type of moth you think is cool?

>>54688726
File attached might be of interest to you then

>>54688451
>Why does every OSR post-apocalyptic game focus on mutants and shit?
cause the alternative is usually boring

>>54688431
I'm in Portland. Don't you faggots have an AC? That's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard.

>>54689813

Not that guy, but I'm pretty sure screen printing requires a lot of ventilation. You can't just recirculate.

>>54683305
>>54682624
Seconding The Nightmares Underneath, really interesting shit

Anyone got any Teukumel stuff, particularly the War of Wizards rules, even though it's more a board game than rpg?

>>54691064
Cool beans, anon. I'll be stealing some of these for my own games.

>>54689813
There is a 390 degree dryer we work 15' next to for curing shirts. Whatever the outside temp is, it's typically 15-20 hotter in the shop, even with ventilation. Learn about shit before you talk it.

>>54691064
I like these, especially because none of them are things you'd expect a Fighting-Man to just be able to do, like a disarm or a trip.

The wording on #16 is confusing, though. How much is the damage reduced?

Could Stonehell go well with Veins of the Earth? What would have to be changed for this to work?

>>54688363
Working on my Final Fantasy Tactics-based Fantasy Heartbreaker I guess.

Also wrote about 1000 words for my short story. Yesterday was productive.

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I'm working on the dirtiest, most simple, nearly freeform magic system there is. Your Wizard needs their focus and to be able to speak to cast spells, with a number of spells equal to level per adventure. The 'spell' is anything the MU wants, with a limited power cap that cam be stretched by sacrifice and higher levels.

Basically, I just need to figure out what is a good way to describe the power limit for a single 'spell'. How should I do it?

>>54688870
There's always the chance to yield, but "social damage" I really should try and think of better names deals damage to Resolve, same as "normal" combat.

If, say, your Resolve is reduced to 0 through a social "attack", you must excuse yourself from the current conflict, and upon taking a (short/long) rest, you regain (0/half usual) Resolve instead. Under normal circumstances, social combat cannot actually damage your meat points (using "Health" for the moment), though there are exceptions i.e. Dragonfear, a Banshee's wail, etc.

If Resolve is reduced to 0 through physical damage, then your meat points become vulnerable. Characters have significantly less of those, and they're much harder to recover once lost.

Essentially, it's the Flesh/Grit system, but Grit is also tied to social combat. I briefly mentioned it here >>54329143 use the archives, but I've been tweaking shit, writing stuff down, and eventually I'll get some goddamn free time to type something up for the thread.

>>54688551
>night stalker
>day walker
>afternoon runner?

>>54692647
Stonehell has a few points where the map purposefully leads off into nowhere or some extended area is left to the GM. That's when you bust out VotE. You can even attribute a lot of the weirdness in it to the Nixthisis.

>>54693812
So social combat and fear would target essentially the same thing? I think that's pretty mechanically sound. I think you could just call it "psychic/psyche damage". I'm not a big fan of Flesh/Grit systems, but I do think that fear eating away at grit is a good way to do it. Does your system have any other ways of taking out grit? Like exhaustion or being cold or being sad?

Do you use comeliness?

>>54693006
Take the GNU/Linux approach of small spells for small problems. A spell could dispel magic, detect magic, alter magic, but only one at a time. If you want to get fancy, have doing multiple effects increase the cost or penalize your rolls or what have you. Ars Magica does this and it works out well.

No, my comment is purely about the game design scene and it’s development (or lack thereof) over the past decades. I find it's a pity that no design efforts are being directed at reviving the core values of the Old School way of playing.


Allow me to name some names, offering my very personal opinion of them in order to explain my point of view. Hoping no one gets offended.

First there is the vast amount of retro-clones. The White Hack, the Black Hack, the Red Hack, the Blue Hack, the Old School Hack, and so many others. Some don’t even have the word “hack” in the title! Lamentations of the Flame Princess and Into the Odd come to mind.

The problem with such games is that they do nothing meaningfully different in respect of the old originals. Granted, some manage to improve on the originals a little bit: some have better text style and illustrations, some offer simpler and more streamlined procedures, some even introduce a couple of novel and functional ideas. But by far and large they share the same game structure, problems, shortcomings and idiosyncrasies as the old books they celebrate: the GM is supposed to “do everything” while
innately knowing how to do it right. The rules are as hermetic as ever in regards of the underlying goals and values of the game, again assuming that the Players will learn the hard way.

>>54697825
>But by far and large they share the same game structure, problems, shortcomings and idiosyncrasies as the old books they celebrate: the GM is supposed to “do everything” while
innately knowing how to do it right. The rules are as hermetic as ever in regards of the underlying goals and values of the game, again assuming that the Players will learn the hard way.
Because they're for grognards, not people new to the scene. These aren't actually problems.

>>54697825
What is this a reply to?

>>54695877
I've considered replacing Charisma with Comeliness for female characters, to get the authentic Sword & Sorcery feeling. In a Conan story, for example, it's clear that men will not normally follow a woman into battle, which is what Charisma represents; so only men can have it. Instead, women have to use their looks, their Comeliness stat, to gain favors from or even manipulate others.

Obviously everyone's immediate objection is the one I let in deliberately, ie. Bêlit, who leads a band of pirates. However her main trait is being extremely physically attractive, to the point where her crew are actually awestruck by it and she leads them by virtue of that. Nor is Bêlit any exception from the fact that the main trait of any woman in a Conan or Lankhmar story is how hot she is, so it makes sense to have a Comeliness stat for women.

Honestly the main thing that's kept me from using it is the risk of assmad players. It's not important enough for me to risk anyone pitching a fit about it at the table.

>>54698262
Personally I'd be fine with it, and would also feel optimistic enough that anyone playing OSR games knows how these stories go and will see your point. But I can see why you wouldn't want to take the chance.

>>54697825
>Into the Odd
>nothing meaningfully different
I won't say Into the Odd made changes for the better, but it is a pretty wild departure.

>>54698262

Make it an option then. They can choose to give up Charisma in return for Comeliness instead, with all the benefits and drawbacks thereof. The only issue is that you still have to roll Charisma to create the Comeliness score, if you're doing it the UA way.

>>54698328
>Personally I'd be fine with it, and would also feel optimistic enough that anyone playing OSR games knows how these stories go and will see your point.
Man, I wish, but I can't share that optimism. Thanks for the support though.

>>54698428
>Make it an option then.
Nah, if it's optional there's no point. If you can genderspecial out of it, it kills the whole idea behind it and I'd rather just run games the usual way.

>if you're doing it the UA way.
No, I'd simply have them roll for it with the usual 3d6 instead of rolling for Charisma. It would just be a straight replacement ability.

>>54698563

Fair enough. I don't really see what Comeliness adds anyway, other than the chance to fascinate and get a lot of attention (good and bad).

>>54698635
The main thing it would add is to make a stark difference between men and women of a kind which is a characteristic trope of the sword & sorcery genre. It would be one more adjustment to fit the game to the genre, effectively.

>>54684035
How does the sky rod work? Does the whale invert your gravity, or does it pull you up? If the latter, why not just let go?

>>54698702

I get you, but it would hypothetically mean that mixed parties are impossible because the female character with the highest Comeliness is now essentially in-charge, to the point were she can fascinate all the male hirelings and henchmen, and if you are willing to include PCs, then the male PCs are also at her mercy. Sounds like a trainwreck in the making to me.

I'd restrict it to NPCs who are noteworthy for their beauty (princesses, queens, cruel sorceresses, etc.) if I were going to use it. Female PCs would either be OP, or they'd be useless (mid to low scores do nothing, and really low scores actually cause problems for the entire party).

I applaud the intent, but the way the rules work (at least in UA) creates more problems that need to be solved, in my opinion.

>>54669444
>>54669518
Barrowmaze has an interesting implementation of this, with 40 different entrances to the dungeon scattered about. There are a couple of 'intended routes', and some aren't possible to enter without a key, or serious excavation tools.

Why are the Immortal Rules 1017 when the Master Rules are 1021?

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Is this a good loot priority?

>magic items
>gems, and small jewelry and art objects
>small locked chests you failed to pick
>platinum
>bigger jewelry and art objects
>gold
>large locked chests you failed to pick
>silver
>huge heavy art objects
>copper

>>54700660
Really awkward objects aside, always do value/weight.

>magic items
With all the dubious appraisal and locked chests floating around,
what's the priority on "possibly magic items"?
>large locked chests you failed to pick
>huge heavy art objects
Drag those somewhere out of the way,
you can come back for them.

>>54700786
>what's the priority on "possibly magic items"?
Detect Magic clears away the "possibly".

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>>54700811
You still need haul around possibly magic items so you can check a whole bunch at once.
When do you check? When you need to leave money behind? When you've left all the money, but you need to leave things?
Do you leave food? Tools? How many detects can your party cast? What if monsters nick your stuff before you come back?

Forcing MUs to make a rhyme whenever they cast a spell, yes or no?

>>54701007
Characters, yeah sure. Players, no.

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>>54701007
Dedicate your next life to learning about poetry that isn't shit.

>>54701007
i can't think of anything that rhymes with magic missile

>>54701105
Tragic Whistle

>>54701105
>Rizzle mah shizzle, have a Magic Missile!

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Where did Steele go wrong?

>>54701105
No time for God's epistle, I shoot my magic missile!

>>54684025

What specifically was so good about AD&D 2nd Ed Clerics? The Complete Clerics Handbook?

>>54701650
>What specifically was so good about AD&D 2nd Ed Clerics?
The gods, and the variety each deity or philosophy could give the base class. Not just different spells, but different weapons and armor and class abilities. Your choice of god actually mattered and it was a lot of fun.

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You have no idea how much effort I put into this shit.

>>54701764
>orc torments factory workers with his body odour while a group of demiliches watch from atop cheese slices on a coveyor belt made of ham

interesting work anon

>>54701650
Monster Mythology
Faiths & Avatars
etc.

name a 2e cleric splat
i'll tell you it is good

>>54701764
Are the gears repurposed dinosaur bones?

>>54701829
>Faiths & Avatars
I agree with you mostly but this one, and Powers & Pantheons, are an exception.

Forgotten Realms clerics were fucking overpowered, because somebody there missed the memo that the gods shouldn't grant you every single sphere in the books - and then a bunch of special abilities on top of that, and barely even restricting their arms and armor choices.

Do you speak in-character?

>>54701878
i wouldn't use everything in those books, but most of their content is good
Gary's DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE gets high praise for being the same way

>>54698965
Not the guy who was suggesting the rule originally, but you seem to make a huge amount of assumptions about how it would work in his game when you can't know that at all. Why would PCs be affected when nobody can make a hireling out of another PC with Charisma? Why would there even be an ability to fascinate henchmen away? He never said anything of the sort.

You really seem like you're looking for an excuse to think Anon's rule is bad, tbqh.

>>54702268

Anon, he and I were on the same page because we were talking about the Comeliness ability score from Unearthed Arcana. It's on page 6, and the fascinate ability that Comeliness provides for high scores is as the Illusionist spell of the same name on page 67 (at the bottom).

>>54702375
I don't think so at all, since he specifically said he wasn't doing it the UA way. Obviously I'm not going to get into a spergwar with you about what somebody else meant, but it's not how I read it.

It's possible that I'm biased because the UA is shit.

Castles & Crusades any good? It's back on sale.

>>54703179
is it revised? i would change the skill system

Is there a particular system that's good for getting the feel of exploration and trade like you see in the 17th-18th century American frontier? I guess the west marches style of game would describe that, but I'm not sure what game in particular to use. Anything that really plays up the impact of weather, food and a lack thereof, and generally mundane hazards over marauding orcs would be appreciated. It needn't neccisarily be OSR, I just figured you guys would have the best appreciation of the style I'm after and wouldn't ree me out at "west marches style."

>>54701809
10/10

>>54703798
I'm taking an opportunity to not shill my blog here. What specifically are you looking for? A sense of discovery or mundane aspects being as or more significant than monstrous threats?

>>54698702
I like it.

>>54703940
I just went on a trip to Mackinaw and spent time at the forts. That's what really got this idea turning over, for reference. I'm looking for the feel of discovery and dealing with the hazards of being an explorer as the main focus. I'm mostly thinking of a focus on weather and terrain hazards, with occasional encounters with intelligent tribes of native creatures or wild animals, potentially magical. Overall I'm going for much more of a lewis and clark feel, exploring the unknown to find valuable stuff and maybe build your own fort/trading post if you find something worth selling back in civilised lands.

what is the most crunchy or rules heavy OSR?

>>54704334
AD&D 2e

>>54703798
I get what you're saying I think, indians, weird jungle type Louisiana shit, dangerous snakes, suddenly discovering vast plains or baking deserts, rumors about cities of gold and so on right? Coonskin caps, Pennsylvania long rifles, canoes, needing to deal with "oh shit rapids" or weird diseases and also never being quite sure whether the indians will be friendly or murderous psychos.

I don't think there's an existing game with a really good system in place for such things, hexcrawling mostly works with the food depletion, but you could check out the Outdoor Survival rules; OD&D is at least nominally meant to work with them. You could also probably adapt the dungeon resource depletion trackers for other resources, use various weather hazards to deplete a starting pool based on CON score...

LotFP is probably a decent base ruleset because it has early guns and a Thief class that's very adaptable to be other kinds of expert (in stories like Chateaubriand's or Cooper's I'd say the two main character types are Frontiersmen who are good fighters and trackers and resemble the indians in that way, so they can be covered by the same class, and Educated Men who aren't so good at fighting but know geography, archeology, languages, medicine, herbs and so forth that's useful for various types of exploration).

>>54704252
Okay, I'm gonna shill my wilderness exploration rules/hex map procedural generation then. The tone I was trying to achieve was exploration one had while playing a pokemon game, but i'm sure you can get some sue out of it. The pastebin is the mechanical stuff for traveling overland and encumberance, the link is to the procedural generation of the hex-map as you explore more of it. All monsters listed also have their spoors, lairs, traces, and tracks which would help make it feel like a "lived in world".

https://pastebin.com/Hnez8Dag
http://melancholiesandmirth.blogspot.com/p/procedural-generation-of-hex-crawl-world.html

>>54704369
Is there any other system that gets the feel of 2e right? heroic fantasy but not super powers

>>54704371
That's the feel I was going for, yeah. Using LotFP is an interesting idea as far as refluffing the classes go.

>>54704475
Shit, that's pretty much exactly the kind of mechanical stuff I'm looking for! I just made it through the pastebin but I really like the way you break things up into different roles based on different stats. Plus it's fairly easy to adapt to a different system if I go with something non-OSR

>>54704545
:) glad to help man. Best of luck!

>>54704545
Not that guy, but maybe take a look at Ryuutama. It's all about regular folks traveling and dealing with the hazards that brings. It's Japanese in style, but the mechanics seem close to what you want, and you could probably refluff it pretty easily.

>>54702484

Yes, my concerns were based entirely on the UA presentation of Comeliness, which the anon I was discussing it with did not dismiss at all, as I'm sure they would have had I been wrong.

All he said regarding not doing it the UA way was that he wasn't using Charisma as part of the Comeliness generation, that it would be rolled straight 3d6 and it would entirely replace Charisma for female characters.

Do you have some sort of issue with my tone? Because I wasn't intending to crap on his idea at all, I was curious and wanted to examine it further.

>>54704974
>Comeliness
>physical beauty
>should entirely replace charisma for women
But that is a shit idea. What are you, thirteen?

are palladium fantasy and the fantasy trip any good?

>>54705241

Nothing by Palladium is good. It's a hideous mess. However, there might be the occasional kernel of a good idea worth stealing.

>>54701105
Pelagic Gristle

>>54704974
>Do you have some sort of issue with my tone?
Nah, it was a misunderstanding. When I didn't realize you were basing your comments on the UA they seemed like kinda aggressive unwarranted assumptions, but I see now where they're coming from. Sorry to seemingly stir shit.

>>54705143
As for you though, fuck along. You're not even responding to the right guy, pillock. It wasn't his idea.

>>54705315
and the fantasy trip? is it worth playing?

>>54705143
Retard

>>54705342

He's just fishing for free (you)s methinks.

>>54705347

I haven't played it, nor do I own any supplements for it, so I don't know. Maybe someone else in /osrg/ has some familiarity with it and can comment.

>>54705347
TFT is just a precursor of GURPS, so you're honestly probably better off asking in GURPSgen. Actually, does that still exist?

>>54705433
It does, wish me luck my friend, want me to bring something from my journey?

>>54705448
Get me some of those rice crackers with the seaweed on them. I love that stuff.

>>54704369
Gygax did it heavier.

>>54705820
????

>>54705836
?????

>>54705956
????????

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>>54705994
?????????????

I decided to run Shinobi and samurai but know nothing about feudal japan.
What are some good resources to fix this?

>>54707228
try reading about feudal japan, that might help

>>54707228
GURPS Japan is a great introduction to Japan for RPGs. Or you could read wikipedia.

>>54707228
https://smile.amazon.com/Japan-History-James-L-McClain/dp/039397720X
https://smile.amazon.com/History-Japan-Stone-Age-Superpower/dp/0230346626
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh5LY4Mz15o

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>>54707228
Here's a good start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sengoku_period#References

>ninja
Arsonist-mercenaries from the lower class.
They like spreading rumours about themselves.
They were also very loyal to their customers.

>samurai
European nobles in every sense of the word, except not in Europe.
Cutthroat jackasses, if I haven't gotten the point across.

>>54707323
Isn't pic related illegal?

>>54707393
Probably? I posted it because he was asking about ninja.
That's just about the most ninja thing there is, after gunpowder.

>>54707393
Rocks? I'm pretty sure they're only illegal in the UK. Or would that be culturally insensitive to Muslims...

New thread. >>54708705

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>>54707937
That's a black egg