/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

Life 2

>>54598769
>Whats a good way to get popcorn kernel out of your teeth?
Go Loud. Then you don't have to worry about pesky teeth anymore.

>>54598769
claws

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Just for the record a noob mage can't be immune to an elder werewolf's claws with a fucking 2 dot spell

>>54598877
If it's Forces we're talking about, yes they can be entirely immune.

>>54598927
You're just going to make him screech even more. Let him believe what he wants to believe.

>>54598877
Do all woofs think that claws are the way to victory vs everything?

>>54598877
Where's the bingo chart? We've got a fag carrying over an argument here.

>>54598927
no it works like alchemist's touch. immune with reach unless it's agg.

>>54598877
At this point I'm convinced you're nothing more than a poor excuse for a troll.
You've been educated on this. Your claws are useless against Forces 2.

But hey, guess what? Not all Mages are going to have two dots in that Arcanum.
Calm your saggy ass man tits.

It's not like claws are even going to matter in a fight with wizards.

>>54598877
How did he get to be an elder if his only response to everything is claws? Not a very believable character.

>>54599062
When can Werewolves do aggravated damage with their claws? In the book it says that even in Gauru the standard damage done by their claws and teeth is lethal.

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Quick reminder that the aggravated damage that rank four spells do only are for humans only. A life unmaking spell has no effect on a Vampire and a death unmaking spell has no effect on a werewolf

Ultimate woof killing technique: Life 4 + Matter 4, change your body to silver and have it covered with spikes with even bigger spikes for hands.

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>>54599151
Horrible. Just horrible. Absolute trash bait.

>>54599137
yes, they're good at doing agg and getting a lot of dice for attacks. the book is fairly direct though, you'd expect weirder powers for a group that gets powers from spirits.

>>54599137
agg or not the delivery system is still with kinetic energy so fuck off

>>54599178
Add in Forces 4 and turn yourself into a living twister of silver fire.

>>54599181
Why would a Life Unmaking spell work on a vampire?

>>54599191
Doesn't matter. Alchemists touch gives clear rules for this situation. Ignoring it for a houserule is your choice.

>>54599178
Life + Matter + Spirit + forces to turn the woof into a hurricane of silver so he kills his pack

>>54598981
>Do all woofs think that claws are the way to victory vs everything?

Is that a question or a statement?

>>54599239
It has a ? at the end of it, you decide

>>54599239
Its a question, a very real one because no other points were ever brought up during the entirety of a thread of woofers trying to argue for claws and nothing else.

>>54599238
What mage is a fourth degree master?
>>54599181
How is that bait dumbass?

>>54599151
>Quick reminder that the aggravated damage that rank four spells do only are for humans only

By that logic a Mage shouldn't be able to Unmake vampires n' such.

>>54599260
>How is that bait dumbass?
>do only are for humans only.
Obvious inability to actually say anything. Clearly bait.

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>>54598981
>>54599259
Uratha can also bite the shit out of a mage as well.

>>54599260
Thats the point, not all mages can cover everything. But this is why they gather into cabals.

So there is a good chance that an individual mage has most of his bases covered if he knows what he is up against.

What is clear is that mages can use most arcana do deal with most threats because they are versatile and can think on their feet. Woofs however seem to be pants on head retards and want to claw everything.

I miss Dave. He would settle this.

>>54599260
>What mage is a fourth degree master?

Transformation of a human target like a mage only requires Adept Proficiency, not mastery.

Mages with three Arcana at 4+ dots are hardly unknown.

>>54599277
They can only unmake vampires if they use the appropriate arcana like forces to create sunlight or death.

>>54599307
He probably wouldn't settle anything. Probably state something vague. Then spank both magefags AND werefags with his Supernal spanking glove.

>>54599332
He no longer works are OPP so he is not going to say anything.

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>>54599350
Nice meme. Here, have a Lenny.

Dave has finally harnessed the butthurt of all the other splatfags at Mage Supremacy to fuel his Ascension ritual. He no longer has need of us. He's in the Supernal as the eternal symbol of Mage Supremacy.

>>54599202
I heard somewhere that you might have to use a combination of Arcana to Unmake a Vampire since they're not quite one or the other.

The Werefags are intentionally acting stupid, you fucking morons.

Why are you responding to them.

>>54599285
Sorry autistic bich bit I am phone typing. You know what I fucking meant

>>54599350
Literally no one was talking about that commie David Hill. They were taking about Dave. DaveB. The mage Dev who still does work for OPP (He is not an employee tho, technically, just a contractor afaik).

>>54599297
>Uratha can also bite the shit out of a mage as well.

Not any mage with Forces 2 (or probably Space 2, Spirit 2, etc.).

And that's just the protection afforded by Shielding. What are you going to do when the same mage who has a kinetic shield then negates gravity and sends the woof hurtling into the stratosphere?

Do not engage in direct physical combat with mages whose raison d'etre is the control of the fundamental forces of the universe.

Apparently, woofs are a stupid as they are furry.

>>54599387
That cheeky bastard.

Can I fuck werewolves?

>>54599396
You mean that aggravated spells don't work on supernaturals, which they do. So its either bait or you're stupid.

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>>54599391
You can fuck right off mate. Since vampfags have lost the will to fight the good fight against mage supremacists and their bullshit fanwank it's up to us Wolffags to set the matter straight.

>>54599437

YES YOU CAN

>>54599405
And thats what i was aiming for.

The sperg! You FELL for it you spastic

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>>54599332
>Supernal spanking glove

That reminds me of those guys from the Free Council.

>Chaps not included

>>54599447
Except you're losing, dumb fuck.

This always happens.
>"hurr durr what can the magefags even do"
>"this, that, this and that. some of this. some of that. and a sprinkle of this."
>"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

>>54599447
By being wrong at every turn? I guess that technically does make things right, with mages on top.

>>54599446
Vampires only take aggravated damage from sunlight and wolves only take aggravated damage from silver. So you can fuck right off mate.

Woof butthurt is still going strong in the last thread. All they have now is "Nuh-uh!", just like they did when it was proven an Archmage could subjugate Luna. Sad.

>>54599448
How are their sex drives?

>>54599476
They take aggravated damge from those sources, yes. But they don't have some magical immunity to other forms of aggravated damage. Are you retarded?

>>54599477
>An archmaster can subjugate Luna
Citation needed

>>54599476
Four dots in an Arcana inflicts Aggravated damage.

It doesn't matter what you are.
Are you going to argue that they can't be Unmade too? Bitch please.

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>>54599476
>wolves only take aggravated damage from silver.

No. Have you even read Forsaken 2e?

>S M H

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>>54599511
You have activated my Imperial Mysteries trap card

>>54599500
Yeah they do faggot. All other damage dealt to a Vampire other than sunlight is downgraded to lethal and any lethal is downgraded to bashing

>>54599496
In OWoD Metis start raping when they fall into Wyrm Frenzy. And given that anger and testosterone are often co-operative forces, they'd probably be limp dicked and frustrated while their sex drives were ramped up. Just like the players!

>>54599541
Good luck trying to do it before the exarchs enhanced orchmata kill you by the thousands while the other archmasters turn away.

>>54599543
Vampires have no ability to down grade aggravated damage of any sort. (Short of disciplines) They down grade lethal to bashing. That is all. I confirmed you are retarded. Thanks.

>>54599541
This is a Chronicals thread and discussion friend

>They're now arguing that they can't be hit by aggravated damage produced by Mages

Oh Jesus Christ Almighty

>>54599543
what the actual fuck.

sometimes i think im reading an alternate iniverses version of the books

Still waiting for werefags to point me to these spirit claws in the book, and to provide proof of the claws and teeth being supernatural, and their strength being supernatural.

>>54599565
What part of only sunlight can deal aggravated damage can't you understand my dumbass mage friend?

>>54599562
Doesn't matter. It's still doable.

>>54599570
>Archmages don't exist in Chronicles
Sure

>>54599578
you will be waiting longer than signs and sorcery mate

>>54599511
A werewolf could too, but their rank caps far lower so they can't be above Luna, unlike an archmage, who has no such limitation.

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>>54599543
>All other damage dealt to a Vampire other than sunlight is downgraded to lethal and any lethal is downgraded to bashing

No. Again, reading is fundamental.

>>54599592
[Citation needed]

>>54599594
Too bad you'll probably paradox yourself to death.

>>54599592
Sorry, no. Mages can inflict Aggravated damage on your ass, my friend. It doesn't fuckin' matter what you are.

>>54599592
fire?

>>54599594
OWod Archmages are a hell of alot stronger than Cod Archmasters

>>54599592
You misunderstand, the retard I'm talking to thinks Vampires downgrade all forms of aggravated damage except sunlight.

>>54599609
This isn't Ascension, buttbuddy.

Magefags must have real fun doing their thing

It's amazing how easy it is to upset non-Magers

>>54599602
This literally says magic does Aggravated as normal.

>>54599626
You can't migrate imperial spell paradox unless in your golden road you can't cast outside your golden road without dealing with paradox.

>>54599648
It won't prevent the vampfags/werefags from denying it though.

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>>54599529
>>54599602
THIS IS FUCKING FAKE NEWS!!!

>>54599655
Exactly, granting yourself every single influence is not only not a violation of the Pax, it wouldn't even cause Paradox because you can cast it in your Golden Road.

>>54599543
>Some horrifying powers — along with the great banes of the
Kindred — deal aggravated damage. When something deals
aggravated damage directly, it’s quite obvious.


Reading do you do it?

>>54599602
Tell me how a life or spirit mage is dealing aggravated damage to a Vampire I'll wait.

>>54599655
Nah, you see. Imperial Practices are fundamentally rituals.
I cast Spirit 9 within my Tropical Island Chantry and imbue myself with an 'anti-God' Influence.

No Paradox involved.

>>54599609
Why would they? In 2e you don't invoke Paradox for just doing obvious magic anymore. If you do it away from Sleepers and don't overextend your Reach, you won't get Paradox. Dave has said that the Imperial Practices are largely the same in 2e, but I don't think we have any Archmage specific Paradox rules yet.

>>54599695
Does spirit fraying spells say "Only works on spirits?"

No fuck off?

Life however probably cant do jack shit to a vampire because its not in its purview.

>>54599724
Spirit uses a torrent of essence to cause damage.

>>54599713
If it's largely the same then it'll always invoke paradox. The point of IM is that these spells are powerful but insanely hard to case in the fallen world.

>>54599706
And then an exarch casts a counter effect because it's clearly a preemptive to war and that cancels it oh well all that hard wlrk for nothing.

>>54599763
Doesn't matter. Still capable of kicking Luna's ass if they got into a fight.

:^)

>>54599695
>Life
Perfecting the Form plus crazy fucking monster claws to emulate Protean.

>Spirit
Fire Elemental bound into a fetish. Blast away with vicious bolts of fire. Vampire are weak to fire, yes?

>>54599763
>And then an exarch casts a counter effect because it's clearly a preemptive to war and that cancels it oh well all that hard wlrk for nothing.
Sweet, the exarch violated the PAX, that means you won the conflict because you didn't break the rules, you baited someone else into doing it.

>>54599763
>If it's largely the same then it'll always invoke paradox
We don't know that.

>>54599781
Not really if it clashes with luna's skill it'll lose as spirits have more dice to toss.

>>54599807
Exarches being the winners of everything have more reach and ways to justify why they removed your spell while being nice enough not to outright kill you.

>>54599807

Hey, if those woofs can't beat an Obrimos or Thyrus, I'm sure they'll have no problems with an Acanthus...

>What could go wrong...?

>>54599841
>Exarches being the winners of everything have more reach and ways to justify why they removed your spell while being nice enough not to outright kill you.
That's not how the PAX or imperial mysteries works though.

>>54599841
No Clash involved. She doesn't have a similar Influence.

What's that? Withstand? Too bad. Archmages probably roll dozens of Exceptional Successes.

:^)

>>54599841
>Exarches being the winners of everything have more reach and ways to justify why they removed your spell while being nice enough not to outright kill you.
...Do you know how Exarchs work?

>>54599925
They dont.

Thats what seers are for.

>>54599877
The book has a sample orchemata preparing to kill an archmage because she's breaking the pax. so yeah it is. If your spell is considered a prepetive to attack someone like luna other archmasters or the exarchs will deal with you it's in the fucking rules.

>>54599880
Not how it works. f you have a power that says nah you can't attack me and she has one that says uh-huh I can because I can drive you ultra insane, they clash. It doesn't matter if the influence is similar only that they clash.

When a power goes no way and one goes yes way they clash. Period and spirits have more dice on a slash of wills than mages do.

>>54599925
Yes, by creating countless orchemata to do their work when the seers can't.

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If mages are so FUCKING powerful why don't they make their own THREAD and leave the rest of us in PEACE

>>54599987
Except casting spells on yourself isn't breaking the Pax in anyway.

>>54599996

There would barely be any thread. Magechat is universal.

>>54599987
>f you have a power that says nah you can't attack me and she has one that says uh-huh I can because I can drive you ultra insane, they clash

That's called 'driving a person mad', not 'nuh uhh you can't attack me'.
Would you rather the theoretical Archmage give himself the Influence of 'mental immunity' too?

:^)

>>54600002
It is when that ability is to let you control the spirit of a planetary body.

>>54599996
What the fuck would you vamp and woof fags actually talk about without us magefags here?

Clawing & biting shit?

>>54599996
>wanting a safe space because you're so insecure about your splats power levels in games where crossover doesn't matter
Cry me a river of blood, loser.

>>54599987
>Not how it works. f you have a power that says nah you can't attack me and she has one that says uh-huh I can because I can drive you ultra insane, they clash. It doesn't matter if the influence is similar only that they clash.
>When a power goes no way and one goes yes way they clash. Period and spirits have more dice on a slash of wills than mages do.

This isn't how clashes work.

>>54600028
So preparing to cast spirit spells of any level is a violation of the Pax now? You are fucking retarded.

>>54600002
Iirc don't you only violate the Pax when you make an active move against somebody else under the Pax?

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>Werewolf tears

It's usually the vampfags that are bitter their edgy emo leeches are crap compared to mages, but it's rare to see woofs so up in arms. Hopefully, the changeling fans will avoid this dumpster fire.

>>54600056
No, only ones involve that try to capture rank 6+ spirits.

>>54600064
or interfere with the fallen world in a huge way like deleting the moon

>>54600065
Changelingfags had their own recent tearfest over Camelot being canon Mage fluff.

>>54600074
>No, only ones involve that try to capture rank 6+ spirits.

Nobody here was even talking about that
Hell, Spirit 9 could just create a second Luna.

>>54600080
I don't like the sound of that. How can I fuck the moon if somebody deletes it?

>>54600031
>What the fuck would you vamp and woof fags actually talk about without us magefags here?

Vampire: I'm edgy and can enact revenge fantasies on the people who picked on me in high school

Werewolf: I'm furry and can enact revenge fantasies on the people who picked on me in high school

Mage: Losers...

>>54600064
The pax is a huge "Do what you like but dont step on others toes" sorta thing.

You can get away with blue murder (the archmage who made christianity the dominant religion instead of Mithrism) but you need to watch out that it doesnt ruin anothers plans.

>>54600035
How isn't it? If you have an anti-spirit power you'd clash with every spirit power it's just an imperial version of a rank 2 spell.

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>>54600100

>>54600108
Spirit powers are specific to their Influence, dumb shit. This theoretical Archmage has an entirely different Influence according to anon.

There is no Clash, whatsoever.

>>54600100
vampire and woof fags went to highschool?

Reading comprehension suggests otherwise.

>>54600108
Spirit Influences don't give them any sort of universal shielding or defense, thinking they do is silly. You are just making up what a purview does, and are entirely wrong about it. Madness influence wouldn't give her a clash against anything that doesn't touch on madness.

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>>54600120

>>54600132

Well, it would give a clash on anything protecting vs madness (Like a mental shield)

Reminder that an Archmage with Spirit 10 is automatically more powerful than Luna based on the spirit hierarchy rules and the Spirit 4 Attainment.

The more you know.

>>54600124
>>54600132
She has imperial-like abilities for her previews so yes her influences most certainly let her clash against something trying to stop her powers from working.

>>54600145
Except this theoretical Archmage has an anti-god killing Influence. What is she going to do?

Make him insane? That will just make him even more dangerous.

>>54600141
One wonders why they played with that group for that long.

Can anybody explain why this bloodline was able to eat everybody so easily though?

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Still waiting on a citation for the slash of a werewolf's claws being a supernaturally strong power.

>>54600162

That depends on the sort of insane. Not all insanity makes you the Joker.

>>54600158
Where did anyone bring up something to stop her powers from working? You are just making up scenarios that have nothing to do with granting yourself influence for some reason. IDK why you get so butthurt about someone having a bunch of spirit influences. I'm forced to assume its because you are a dog fucking yiff machine.

>>54600180
woofs cant read
woofs have clawed the books

>>54600180
You won't get it, they are mundane.

>>54600197
I thought we were talking about trying to capture luna.

>>54600229
No, we were talking about beating Luna 1v1

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>>54600180
>>54600218
Their claws are mundane, but their jaws count as mystical

>>54598877
Correct. It would be a battle between the mage's gnosis and the werewolf's power stat, right?

>>54600258
Good luck using jaws without kinetic force

>>54600258
And yet not a single wolf ever offered up anything but claws. Too stupid to even bite. Classic dog fuckers.

>>54600277
Incorrect. While a Mage could immunize himself against all kinetic damage, it would be a waste of a spell.

No werewolf is even going to get close to a mage proficient in Forces.

>Gravity Supremacy!

>>54600277
Right. Primal Urge vs Gnosis, a Clash of Wills.

>>54600283
It would allow for a clash, but it would still subtract potency from the attack regardless of the results.

>>54600283

The kinetic force spell only protects against mundane and natural effects. The Jaws are expressly supernatural so they wold bypass that.

>>54600256
My point about her powers still clashing and most likely winning is probably what happens. Spirits even if they don't have imperial spells aren't to be fucked with. Even if you won other people would still get mad and deal with you one way or another.

>>54600258
This is still kind of vague. What resonance? Why is it lethal to vampires, and for the same reason would it count as mystical to mages? Are they vulnerable to such sources?

>>54600299
The kinetic force used to apply the damage is mundane and natural.

>>54600277
I would allow the werewolf to entirely bypass it, or allow for the mage's potency to act as a sort of armor, at best.

>>54600306
>Are they vulnerable to such sources?

I'd say the spell is. Since it talks about mundane stuff. It's weakness is that it doesn't stop non-mundane stuff.

>>54600292
Kinetic barriers don't start a Clash of Wills

If it was Spirit against Gifts however, then yes. It would start a Clash.

>>54600284
Are you roleplaying or something, in a rule discussion? Where is that faggotry coming from? Most of us here play most of these games, right?

>>54600320
then you are off script and can fuck off i would allow you to drown yourself in your own tears

>>54600306
Jaws would still inflict kinetic force upon the barrier, so it wouldn't mean much.

>>54600343
Werewolf is an awful game and everyone I've ever met who likes it def likes to fuck animals.

>>54600362
>claw animals woofs dont even think about fucking

>>54600343
I meant wolffag but left off the second bit. Not trying to roleplay here. Just pointing out no one in the last thread even mentioned a single solution to anything that wasn't 'more claws'.

>>54600292
>Primal Urge vs Gnosis, a Clash of Wills.

If there was a CoW, it would be Gnosis+Arcana+Potency/Duration/etc. bonuses

>>54600341
two dot anything isn't that powerful - as a storyteller you have to be reasonable, and consider shit like this.

>>54600389
>Gnosis+Arcana+Potency/Duration/etc. bonuses
Oh shit I forgot about this. Even if it was a Clash, the Mage would still win out. Easily.

gg werefags

>>54600390
>two dot anything isn't that powerful

It's ridiculously powerful with higher-Gnosis Mages. Ludicrously strong. An understatement even.

If you want to make it weaker, go ahead. But don't dissuade the obvious power differences here.

>>54600277
It would be Gnosis + Arcanum + bonuses (Willpower points, Advanced duration, Advanced Potency) versus Primal Urge + Auspice Renown (for an inherent ability) + bonuses (Willpower points, Advanced duration)

Since the teeth are an inherent ability and not actually a power with a set duration, I would say no duration bonus.

>>54600389
No, I don't think so.

>>54600390
except it is.
and as a storyteller its your job to know that and plan accordingly which people who have ran mage should be able to do, if not then its not the game for you, go back to putting things that can be clawed in your games

>>54600338
>It's weakness is that it doesn't stop non-mundane stuff.
Technically it can stop it. It just wouldn't no-sell it if it was weak to it.

If Forces and Spirit makes Werewolves look like lost puppies, why not have the ST nerf Mages a bit instead?

Same goes for Space and Matter, if they have it.

>>54600389
Yeah, but the werewolf would be getting their power stat plus strength plus brawl, plus potentially other bonuses too, so it'd not be so easy.

>>54600411

Inherent is tricky. As longer lasting stuff gets a larger bonus. So it depends if you count inherent as 'No duration' or 'Unlimited duration'. Neither seems quite right.

>>54600437
It only fucking matters in crossovers, otherwise poor fucking puppies in a mage game. Who gives a shit. You have puppies turn up for afew stories then get on with other more important mage shit.

>>54600413
2e p.118

"All characters using conflicting powers enter a contested
roll-off, each using a pool of Gnosis + Arcanum. Other supernatural
beings have Clash of Wills dice pools specified in their
own rules. Ties reroll until one player has accrued more success
than all others. The effect invoked by that player’s character
wins out and resolves as usual, while all others fail. Victory of
one power in a clash does not mean the immediate cancellation
of the others, save in cases where only one power can possibly
endure. If the winning spell in a Clash between two spells runs
out of Duration before the other does, the losing spell will take
effect when the winner is removed.
Mages may spend Willpower to bolster the contested roll,
and are always aware when their spells are clashing. Spells with
Advanced Durations and Potency are more enduring in a Clash.
Day-long spells add +1 die to the Clash roll, weeklong spells add
+2, month-long +3, and year-long and indefinite effects add +4.
Advanced Potency adds +1 die."

>>54600437
It's funnier when mages are allowed to use the full extent of their capabilities. Werefags literally cannot conceive of just how ridiculous Forces is in direct combat.

>>54600436

That is still more vulnerability, which was my main point. Since the wolf thing talks about for stuff that's vulnerable to it. WoD could do with some more keywords for this stuff, as 90% of the argument has been 'Is X mundane or not' as it's not a term the system really defines.

Claws, teeth and muscle against kinetic barriers don't start a CoW

Prove me wrong

>>54600437
Poison is the cure for mage players.

Mage NPCs in your game aren't a problem, because poison is the cure for mage STs, too.

>>54600445
The book doesn't specify inherent abilities as having an unlimited duration bonus. Just that " the werewolf uses her Primal Urge plus her dots in her auspice Renown".

p.115

General Komodo. Years ago, you served my OPP in the Awakening book. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Woof fags. I regret that I am unable to present my father's request to you in person, but my ship has fallen under attack and I'm afraid my mission to bring you to Alderaan has failed. I have placed information vital to the survival of Mage Supremacy into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Komodo. You're my only hope.

>>54600390
>two dot anything isn't that powerful

It was precisely these types of assumptions that DaveB utterly and totally rejected in Mage 2e. There are no longer any more speed bumps or artificial game balance limiters in the Practices or Arcana, consequences be damned.

If a werewolf is stupid enough to attempt to engage in direct physical combat with an Obrimos or other mage who specializes in Forces, he deserves to be bitch slapped or worse for being an idiot. He would be a disgrace to Father Wolf and dishonor his Pack and Tribe. In fact, Shielding will be the very least of the woof's concerns when he realizes to his eternal regret that the same mage also considers gravity little more than a suggestion.

First rule of Mage fight club is don't attack a mage using his preferred purview of cosmic reality alteration unless you intend on committing suicide.

>>54600461
Even then, I mean - why take away all the gravitas from a potent supernatural creature? It seems kind of weak and insecure, and honestly counterproductive. Variety is the spice of life, and the more potentially interesting adversaries the better.

>>54600519
It's futile

He's probably still asleep over in Supernal Hollywood

>>54600444
>the werewolf would be getting their power stat plus strength plus brawl, plus potentially other bonuses too, so it'd not be so easy.

That's not how CoW work. The woof would likely only roll his Primal Urge + applicable Renown.

This is basic CofD rule stuff/

>>54600533
Other splats aren't interesting antagonists compared to what mage has to offer.

>>54600533
>potent supernatural creature

Werewolf vs Abysaal entities and other Mages.

Nope dont see it. At most other splats are minor inconviences to a mage if they appear on his radar.

>>54600500
You're the one making the assertion here. Fuck off. P118 of mage indicates the baseline rule of conflict with supernaturals.

>>54600390
As was stated in the last thread, Shielding isn't just a two dot skill. It's one of the 13 Practices that Atlantean Mages considered useful enough and prominent enough to include in their codification of their magic system. Nobody is saying that Forces Mage Armor will stop a werewolf's claws cold. That's a two dot skill. An Attainment that gives you Armor. A specifically crafting Shielding spell can do a lot more.

>>54600575
baseline being mages win?

>>54600529
Oh lord, it's Gospel of DaveB time.

Remember, kids, DaveB forum quotes are to be taken for humor value only and apply only to Mage only/non crossover games at that.

>>54600588
You're a mere threshold seeking away from winning all your Clashes of Will!

>>54600575
Hey, if Alchemist's Touch doesn't invoke a Clash of Wills, I see no reason why a 'Kinetic Barrier' will.

>>54600533
If claws are all a werewolf has to the point that one spell can render them harmless, they aren't all that potent. Sounds more like a problem with Werewolf design than Mage design.

>>54600529
What a fucking joke, the idea that mages would be wanting physical combat with werewolves. Even as a mage player I am just fucking rolling my eyes now, you all are just fucking ruining the image of the game here with this shit.

>>54600529
Well said. All of it.

>>54600601
The changes are all in the book, jackass. The book that Dave is the developer of? Try reading it sometime.

Blanket immunity just doesn't exist from a 2 dot skill. Clash of wills, period.

>>54600389
Gnosis + Arcana for mage,
Primal Urge + Renown for Werewolf,
Blood Potency + Discipline for Vampire
Azoth + Resistance attribute(stamina, Resolve, Composure) for Promethean. Reminder promies can buff these stats at will, and can have some of them sitting at 6 dots at char gen.

All of them mention Getting +1-4 dice based on duration.
All of them allow a willpower spent if your there and aware.

MAGE however, can spend a reach to add +1 to their roll(advanced potency).

I don't know changeling and I don't really care about demon and beast but there you go.

Blanket immunity exists plainly in the form of a two-dot Practice, AKA Shielding.
No Clash of Wills needs, period.

As long as its from Forces, Matter n' life, you are duly immunized against its specific sub-purview.

>>54600641
All quite reasonable

>>54600641
>All of them mention Getting +1-4 dice based on duration.

That's a good one for the wolf. >>54600469 Indefinite duration (Those jaws don't fade away) is +4.

>>54600653
Nah, it really doesn't, not in crossover, with supernatural antagonists. You know it, get over it. Your mary sue edgelord Merlynn Darkstarr Wizard adolescent power fantasy fulfiller isn't completely immune to everything in the World of Darkness. Deal, bro. It's okay, it really is.

>>54600676
Sound's wrong but I'd allow it.

>>54600678
Nah, it really is, especially in crossover, with supernatural antagonists. You know it, get over it. Your cry baby muttpuppy Sherilyn Cruiser prepubescent revenge fantasy fulfiller isn't completely badass to everything in the World of Darkness. Deal, sister. It's okay, it really is.

>>54600678
Complete immunity is never what anyone talked about, it just sounds like that because the werewolf players keep trying the same thing, claws or I guess teeth now, in this new thread, 400 posts later.

>>54600694
Yeah, innate shit's gotta have its advantages

>>54600708
u mad bro?

A Kinetic shield WOULD make you nigh-immune to all kinetic sources
It also wouldn't provoke a Clash of Wills, just look at Alchemist's Touch.

It's so fucking cringey that you idiots can't acknowledge this.
Unless your werewolves can plainly produce some telekinetic strike, it doesn't do anything.

>>54600678

You must be the same Anon from the last thread...

As before, I will be happy to discuss an actual citation to any CofD 2e book that clearly states an otherwise mundane physical attack becomes a supernaturally-empowered and enhanced attack by reason of the attacker possessing a Power Stat.

The fact that werewolves, under certain limited circumstances, can do additional damage to spirits with their claws hardly creates some universal rule. In fact, the noted special circumstance is actually evidence of the general rule that such physical attacks are still considered mundane and natural.

This is true whether you believe it's wrong or unfair that a Mage's two dot ability might render the primary physical attacks of a werewolf or similar supe effectively useless.

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>>54600632
It's not a skill. Mage Armor is a skill. Shielding spells are a Practice.

2e p.123
"Shielding spells, sometimes called Warding spells, offer
protection against phenomena under the Arcanum’s
purview. A Shielding spell might protect against a ghost’s
Numina (Death), make the mage immune to fire (Forces)
or disease (Life), or allow her to survive in a caustic atmosphere
(Matter). Mages protect themselves from general
harm through the power of their Arcana with the Mage
Armor Attainment rather than Shielding spells."

2e p.126-127
"Most commonly with the Practice of Shielding (••), a spell
may grant protection from forces under the Arcanum’s purview.
These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or
mundane phenomena, while protecting against a number of
supernatural attacks equal to the spell’s Potency. Such attacks
must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target."

The argument here is whether or not the slash of a werewolf is something physically supernatural that would evoke a Clash of Wills against a kinetic barrier made with Shielding. No evidence has been provided for it being such, only an unproven assertion that a werewolf's claws can do damage to spirits, and the subsequent argument that a spirit power can provoke a Clash of Wills against a barrier from physical force.

>>54600754

>an actual citation to any CofD 2e book that clearly states an otherwise mundane physical attack becomes a supernaturally-empowered and enhanced attack

You'll want >>54600258 for wolves.

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>>54600754
>You must be the same Anon from the last thread...
What gave it away? His obvious butthurt that he's projecting like crazy?

>>54600712
Yeah right, so if some asswipe clique of werewolf players decided to misinterpret the rules and an asswipe, overfamiliar game designer's love for fan sycophantry into giving them full blanket spell immunity, that mages would not respond with equal vehemence in disproving the asinine notions.

>>54600802
I would even give the woof that clash if they thought to bite in the first place.

>>54600763

>These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or mundane phenomena, while protecting against a number of supernatural attacks equal to the spell’s Potency. Such attacks must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target."

>>54600258 Shows that the jaws are supernatural. So the jaws would Clash the shield.

>>54600763

In fact, we already have a sample spell to create a Kinetic Shield, Alchemist's Touch, and it makes no distinction or exception for magical substances, attacks or any similar.

The arguments amount to little more than werewolf fans believing it's "unfair" that such a two dot Forces spell can virtually no sell all physical attacks. My response is that how uncreative and limiting do you have to be to think a werewolf's only means of attacking a mage is direct physical attacks.

>>54600746
Yeah yeah yeah, this keeps going in a circle to you going back to the same fallacious garbage.

p.118

Clash. of. Wills.

>>54600802

Read Alchemist's Touch. There's no"mystical" substances exceptions to damage immunity,

>>54600837
The mystical nature of their teeth is spiritual, and doesn't align with the purview of Forces.

It wouldn't start a Clash.

>>54600844
>>54600859

Alchemist's touch also only protects against the innate qualities of the substance. It doesn't protect you against someone freezing acid into a baseball bat and beating you to death with it.

>>54600874
It would defend against the acid. The baseball bat hitting you would be kinetic force, which would require Forces 2.

>>54600746
Alchemist's touch is meant to help you work with raw materials. Sheesh. You nutcakes are just precious.

>>54600676
In my experience(I played/ran a little bit of beast/crossover) Clash of wills tends to be one of mage's weaker points.

If you play by mage rules you will lose. Period. Nothing can compare to the premade spell bullshittery of mage.

However, the mage's mega spell's clash of will roll is always going to be Gnosis + Arcanum + Bonus and it's not that much higher then everyone else. Hell a mad enough promie giving the right tools to allow for the clash is a scary motherfucker.

If your a werewolf trying to counter a mage Find a spirit of Manifest Destiny or some authoritarian spirit(got to have the bright plan for the future, like WW2 propaganda) to forge of fetish to 'lock' in your future. (mechanically its just granting a Clash VS attempts to alter it, but you can do some cool story stuff with it too.)

Its niche, so 2 dot fetish I would say, just to grant the clash, might add +3 to the roll, if your ST is nice. Again it does only one thing, protect your future from effects that would change it,(costs essence too), if you want to do the same but your past, I would recommend heading to the cannery and getting a spirit of preservation.

>>54600868

>The mystical nature of their teeth is spiritual, and doesn't align with the purview of Forces.

How does that matter? It is a supernatural attack and the base shielding rules says that leads to a Clash of Wills. It can't both block the supernatural attack and be immune to clashing.

>>54600854
No really, do werewolves have kinetic 'powers'?

>>54600894
How does that dissuade anything I've said?

This discussion amuses me.

Forces Shielding is so besides the point in Forces mage vs werewolf combat.

If woofs like the moon so damn much, the mage should simply nullify gravity and send the stupid, slobbering mongrel right into the loving embrace of Mother Luna, preferably at escape velocity.

>Let's see those "mystical jaws" Class of Wills against gravity

Supernatural attacks equal to the spells potency. Wow, in this case what would the werewolf's claw/bite attack potency be? Strength+brawl+weapon damage prob. So lol, no fucking invulnerability whatsoever

>>54600899
By that logic Alchemist's Touch should invoke a Clash of Wills, but it doesn't. So something is up there.

>>54600837
>So the jaws would Clash the shield.
Potentially, even though it has been pointed out that it's pretty vague. Apparently whether or not they count as mystical is subjective to whatever is being bitten based on if they're vulnerable, and no specifications are given for what makes one vulnerable to Father Wolf's resonance. I'm not even sure why vampires are vulnerable let alone that mages or their spells would be.

But even if it did Clash, odds are stacked in favor of the mage, who get Gnosis + Arcanum + Willpower + Advanced duration + Advanced potency (p.118) , while the werewolf gets Primal Urge + Auspice Renown + Willpower for an inherent feature (p.115). No potency or duration bonuses specified for inherent features.

>>54600917

Yes, it should. As the base rules for shielding still apply to it.

>>54600932
Except it doesn't. There are no CoW rules for Alchemist's Touch.

>>54600941
Cept there would be in a combat situation against a supernatural.

Wait, I thought you all argued Clash of Wills months before and the response was "A Mage is statistically more likely to win a Clash of Wills than any other splat, so even if one were declared, the Mage most likely still wins."

How the hell is this argument going through month long repeating cycles?

>>54600916
Except there's no proof for their slashes being physically supernatural attacks, and even the proof for their bites being supernatural to mages is iffy at best. Maybe try reading the book and arguing with sources instead of pulling shit out of your ass?

>>54600941

Alchemist's Touch is also not written talking about supernatural attacks. As it's designed for handling substances.

>>54600916

Number of attacks, not strength of attacks.

Since there's no multiple per turn attacks in CofD, at best, assuming the cited rules interpretation is correct and applicable, the mage can still no sell a werewolf (or werewolves) for the greater part of any reasonable combat duration with just one spell. What such a mage does later, no less anything his cabal might inflict, is still terrifying.


Going back to the original question, why exactly is this werewolf packing attacking a cabal of mages, and worse, why do they believe direct physical confrontation was the best course of action?

>>54600962
The issue is now whether or not it would cause a Clash at all. Odds would still be in favor of Mages if it did, because >>54600930

Teeth and claws are inherent features. Even if both were ruled supernatural to Mages, the woofs miss out on potency and duration bonuses, as none are specified.

>>54600962
The big argument right now is that Forces 2 makes a Mage immune to Kinetic assault with no chance of a CoW for the attacker. Not unless it's a kinetic *power*.

Werewolf players naturally went berserk over this. Kinetic energy is kinetic energy. It's not supernatural.

>>54600966

>and even the proof for their bites being supernatural to mages is iffy at best

Well, they are supernatural when it would make the target more vulnerable. So if your shield risks being pierced by supernatural stuff, they are supernatural as that's making you more vulnerable.

>exposed to the possibility of being attacked or harmed, either physically or emotionally.

>>54600917
>By that logic Alchemist's Touch should invoke a Clash of Wills, but it doesn't. So something is up there.

I'm sure Dave will resolve this and other issues in the Mage FAQ to be released any day now...

>>54600975
>As it's designed for handling substances.

Kinetic energy is as mundane as those substances, and is not supernatural.

>>54600932
>Yes, it should. As the base rules for shielding still apply to it.

Feel free to write a letter of protest to Dave and Rich.

>>54601010
daveB tooks his ball home with him when somebody asked when the faq was coming.

Petty petty petty.


The perfect mage.

>>54600975
>Alchemist's Touch is also not written talking about supernatural attacks. As it's designed for handling substances.

Yeah, and mages don't routinely handle dangerous supernatural substances...

>>54601007
>Well, they are supernatural when it would make the target more vulnerable.
It doesn't say this in the screenshot. What page?

>>54601007
Those 'supernatural' claws and teeth are inflicting 'mundane' kinetic energy as a by-product of its contact.

So no, it's definitely not a supernatural attack.

>>54601041

Shielding has FoW with Supernatural Attacks, not supernatural substances.

>>54600868
Clash of will's happen when 2 magical things say "this must happen" and both of them can't win.

for example. A fetish called the Spear of Odin lets you enter Melee range with someone you can see as part of an attack.(think, TP behind you and tip Fedora)

A mage casts Ward(Space 2) on an area to prevent space warping. The mage is in the area.

The werewolf Uses the Spear of Odin to jump to the mage. The spear says "I must warp into melee range of the mage".

The ward Spell says "no manipulating space in this area"

Neither can be right at the same time.

Clash of Wills. If the spear wins the the werewolf TP's in. If the ward wins the werewolf spends his essence and goes nowhere.

>>54601071
Don't know if the claws are magical though.

>>54601025
Oh give up. The clash of wills thing is here to stay.

>>54601005
>argues werewolves, vampires etc aren't supernatural with a straight face

Keep being who you are, magefag, keep being who you are

>>54601127
That's not what he said

>"Those 'supernatural' claws and teeth are inflicting 'mundane' kinetic energy as a by-product of its contact. "
>"So no, it's definitely not a supernatural attack."

Thread over.
>>54601053 has it right.

>>54600962
Because those who tried to argue about the "statistic probability" argument were arguing for tons of ridiculous factors to add to the mages rolls, which were reasonably excluded or countered with reasonable analogs in the other supernaturals stats/abilities. The argument was won in favor of the clash folks months ago, it's pretty much a standard in online crossovers, where they don't entirely ignore the shielding for supernatural physical attacks to begin with (most seem to actually do the latter where I've played).

>>54601182
When I've played, online, it's always been to ignore entirely this blanket immunity houserule shit that they always talk about here. Like completely ignored. I saw one where the players argued that the spells should give them an armor bonus in a specific case, and that was accepted but it was against a geist's fire attacks.

>>54601151
Oh puh-lease

>>54601210
>blanket immunity
>houserule

How is it a house-rule? It's fucking explicit in application.

>>54601210
hurr durr, when i play i ignore the rules so you should all listen to what i have to say on the matter because its important you all ignore the rules too

What the fuck did you bring to the discussion faggot

>>54600209
FUCKING FURRIES!
THEY CAN'T EVEN WRITE!

>>54601228
No, it's about playing the game functionally. We all get what you want, but yeah. The rest of us want a game that actually works, not your jerkoff power fantasy risk free theatric shit.

>>54601094
claws are a physical attack. If you have a spell you cast that guarantees your hit and someone else has something that says 'no one can hit me', its a clash.

If your claws add +1 to your damage roll then good for you nothing happens.

The closest thing to a 'kintetic barrier' in mage core is Ban(Space 3) with 2 dots in forces to only block kinetic energy.

Or you could just use life and ban Werewolves from entering your secret club house with Lure and Repel.

>>54601251
>The closest thing to a 'kintetic barrier' in mage core is Ban(Space 3) with 2 dots in forces to only block kinetic energy.

That would still require a Clash of Wills, same as a Forces 2 kinetic shield

>>54601250
You are playing in a crossover yet shitting on the mage player? nerfing him and cucking him?

Fuck off, you should be ashamed at your treatment of that person. The rest of you need to rethink your choices of what you are playing if you cant stand being dwarfed by a mage using his full capacity

This thread sucks

>>54601285
yeah it does, mage should probably move to it's own thread it's caused nothing but shitposting.

>>54601282
Yeah the other anon saw the sizesof the mages dick and became unnaturally jealous and hateful of him.

...the other anon must be a Banisher!

>>54601210
Try reading.>>54600763

>These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or mundane phenomena
The argument is whether the physical attacks of a werewolf are inherently supernatural. Little to no actual evidence has been posted that says that they are.

>>54601250
Mage does work. It just doesn't work in crossover. Which is fine, because it wasn't designed to. Also love that everyone is crying because a Mage could potentially be immune to fucking claws, like that's all Werewolves can do is claw at shit. Pathetic. Grow up.

>>54601267
Only if it was a supernatural attack.

>>54601307
Doesn't the supernatural power also have to conflict with it as well? It can't just provoke a Clash of Wills over nothing.

>>54601285
/tg/ mages are the worst Mary Sue Edgelords in gaming. Every time they get reminded their supremacy dreams are built on a house of lies they flip out and wreck the place.

>>54601267
Clash of wills against what?
Basic attacks? Nothing gaurnetee's your basic attacks. If your basic attacks deal aggravated damage they still don't get a clash. IF your basic attack has a fetish or something that says it MUST pass through, and neither effect can be right at the same time, then its a clash.
Your gifts? Yes if your gift sends a blast of kinetic energy through the wall then yes it gets a clash.

Remember Clash of Wills is when two magical things say "This must happen" but neither can be right at the same time.

IF a promie raises his strength to 20 and punches at a kinetic barrier, nothing happens.

IF a Irraka uses Closer then you thought(pg 26) to enter melee range against someone on the other side of the wall, then there would be a clash. As the wall must be up and the Wolf must move into melee range. Neither can be right at the same time so roll a Clash of wills.

Does that make sense?

>>54601404
>house of lies
By house of lies this anon means a vampfag or yiffer says something blatantly stupid and wrong about mages.

>>54601307

The interpretation and applicability of the rule is also at issue in light of the actual language of Alchemist's Touch, the spell upon which Kinetic Shield would necessary be based, which has no mystical property or resonance exceptions to the immunity it provides.

>>54601301
Or maybe all you whining faggots can grow spines? Woofs are the ones shitposting and being hostile. But it's alright if this is too much for you and you need a safe space from big, bad mages so that you can enjoy your powerwanking fantasies without being upset by the fact that your splat isn't the strongest.

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>>54601307
Son, we're discussing the attacks of powerful supernatural entities here. Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it?

>>54601417
Doesn't matter. Wolf claws and teeth are magical in nature so it gets a clash.

>>54601404
>house of lies
>citations all throughout the thread
>woof tears everywhere
In denial, are we? It's natural.

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>>54601435
Oh, so those mean WoD players who actually touch other games made you all butthurt, now, did they? Show us on the doll where they touched you, little girl.

>>54601393
yes clash of wills only happen when directly conflicting.

This argument is about woofs supernatural claws clashing vs a kinetic shield.

The kinetic shield says "no kinetic energy here" and the supernatural claws (no proof) or bite (proof) says "hang on a minute my arm / head his moving towards that mage using kinetic energy if only i could make contact but i cant so REEEEEEE" and no clash happens.

>>54601376
>Also love that everyone is crying because a Mage could potentially be immune to fucking claws, like that's all Werewolves can do is claw at shit. Pathetic. Grow up.

The arguments sadly reveal a great deal about Werewolf fans, far in excess of anything learned about Werewolf or Mage rules.

>Hurr Durr Death Rage
>Furry mpreg

>>54601445
I'm a mage fag and i'm sick of this bullshit. Daveb hasn't been here in weeks because of this bullshit. he probably won't come here because of obnoxious faggots who want to suck his dick just so they can shitpost more. good job chasing him away you obnoxious faggot.

Quick question /wodg/.

Back when I read C:tl, years and years ago now, I was under the impression that Changelings gained their Seeming and Kith based on what they were forced to do while in Arcadia, based on their durance.

But then at some point I had some anon tell me that it was based on their escape (or was it based on their passage into the hedge... either way, not their durance).

Am I just remembering wrong? Why would it be based on their escape. Wouldn't it make a million times more sense for the terrible true fae controlling their lives to warp them for their needs, therefore turning them into something inhuman, fae-touched if you will?

>>54601477
for an example of when it actually does cause a clash>>54601417

>>54601482
I want to go read werewolf now and see what else woofs can actually do.

So far i have:

Claw things
Whine like bitches.

Wish me luck!

I fucking hate werefags. I fucking hate them so much.

>>54601404
>Mary Sue Edgelords

>repeating the expression over and over again is not only not persuasive, it reveals an autistic-level inability to actually engage in substantive or meaningful discussion.

Whether you like Mage and its setting, themes and design priorities has absolutely no bearing on the actual canon rules presented in any CofD text or the expressed intent of the actual developers of the games.

>>54601506
good luck.

Werewolf's strongest shit is in the back in the fetish section. Yes that is what it is called.

>>54601502
What you remember is from 1e, 2e drafts showed it being based on your escape, now that rose is in charge it appears to just be based on 'whatever'. Truly she is a master of mechanics.

>>54601502
I would have just made another thread because this mage bullshit shouldn't spread to general help. But the change was made in hills version of changeling which due to drama has been scrapped so we don't know if that's still the case in 2e.

And to think this all started because Mages can make themselves effectively immune to kinetic assault.

Nothing more than that.

>>54601447
>powerful supernatural entities

I thought we were discussing werewolves?

>>54601497

Dave's new forum of choice is the WOD Discord.

Don't worry, it's obvious they're chasing him away from there too.

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>>54601447
>>54601452
Still haven't seen a source for the physical attacks of Werewolves' being inherently supernatural in nature. Even the screenshot about the mystic teeth leaves it in doubt as to whether or not they would even count as supernatural towards Mages.

Either look through your own book and come back with sources or get fucking lost. I'm tired of morons arguing these assumptions as though they're fact. By your logic the regular punch of a Changeling or a Vampire would count as a supernatural attack just because they're supernatural creatures. Let me give you a tip for mature arguments: You back up your claims with sources. I've provided plenty, straight from the mage corebook, and even werewolf core. Werefags have provided one vague screenshot.

Get sources or don't bother to reply to me. I won't respond to you or take you seriously without them.

>>54601552
No they can't. Show me where in the rulebook that is stated.

>>54601594
Dude, they're inherently supernatural beings. You don't get logic much, do you?

>>54601596

See >>54600763

>>54601593
there's a wod discord? i'd say that sounds worse than here but these last few days have proven nothing can top this garbage not even the opp forums.

>>54601611
Kinetic energy isn't supernatural though

:^)

>>54601594
Yes. The regular punches of a vampire or changeling would be supernatural too. Blood Potency and Wyrd instead of Integrity. You are pretty fucking dense, aren't you.

>>54601503
>for an example of when it actually does cause a clash

I'm triggered by your citation to the actual stated CoW rules. Your literacy privilege is oppressive, and I demand that /wodg/ be a safe space for neurodiverse, post-modern, splat social justice rules application.

>>54601625
I wonder what the OPP forums thinks of us

>>54601611
And this makes all of their attacks inherently supernatural? Do you have a source for that?

>>54601629
Do you have a source for that?

Fuck it, i'm making the new thread extra early, don't bring this faggotry in it.

>>54601671

>>54601533

Did someone say "fetish?"

>>54599457

>Mages are just too *fabulous* for werewolves

>>54601626
Pity the shield failed because of the supernatural attack, and all that kinetic force got through. Fragile little body underneath. Should have thought of a better form of protection.

>>54601657
Not him. Vampire and Changeling corebooks. They are both supernatural creatures, really. They are. Stop being fucking obtuse. You are fucking awful.

>>54601689
You pretty much just saying "this doesn't work because I said so" now.

You are literally retarded

>>54601689
The shield wouldn't fail. It blocks a number of supernatural attacks equal to potency.

>>54601689

Yeah, it's not like that same mage doesn't have Forces Mage Armor and command of gravity (among other deadly forces).

Those mystical werewolf jaws will do a lot of good in orbit.

>>54601721
>It blocks a number of supernatural attacks equal to potency
>>54601724
>Those mystical werewolf jaws will do a lot of good in orbit.


The mage is obviously quite generous. He'll help the woof quickly meet Luna to discuss his mystical nature.

>>54601705
>Vampire and Changeling corebooks
No shit, really? I'm not going to go trawling through them to prove arguments for others, dickbag. I'm not being obtuse. Show me the goddamn proof and I'll concede the point, IF it actually says anything close to what they're asserting at all. Do you know how burden of proof works, or are you twelve and this is your first argument outside of the playground? You don't just scream "Is too!" if you want your claims to be taken seriously. You show the proof, and it's not on me to go get it for you, or anyone else for that matter. All of my claims and arguments have been backed up with quotes and page numbers from the book. Read the thread and see.

>>54601724
If the werewolf doesn't resist.

File: DaveB - Gravity Control.png (12KB, 610x161px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 610x161px

>>54601763
>If the werewolf doesn't resist.

How, particularly if the mage negated gravity over an area of effect rather than an individual target?

>>54601797
Get ready for another asinine argument

>>54601797
Strength of the spell vs strength of the woof

>>54601816
That's not how it works

It's the same with Ban
The werewolf is shit out of luck, as it's not targeting him/her directly.

>>54601816
Only if the effect directly targets them. AoE and aimed spells aren't Withstood. And even then it's not hard to get Exceptional Successes with Rotes and Praxes, and Exceptional Successes bypass Withstand.

>>54601641
Everyone that doesn't like swimming in garbage thinks poorly of us, anon.

>>54601816
See >>54600641
for everyones dice pools.

>Ventrue are lords over the undead
>tend to develop lots of derangements due to clan bane
>Stuff like narcissism and megalomania
>Bloodlines relating to power at all costs like En and Asnam are in Daeva
What did they mean by this?

>>54601991
>for everyones dice pools.

It doesn't apply to AOE spells.

In any event, spells like Gravitic Supremacy aren't Withstood or resisted, and unless the werewolf has some serious flight or gravity powers, there is no CoW. Just being a supernatural creature does, werewolf, mage or otherwise, does not permit a CoW without a specific opposing power.

how does one join this WoD Discord then?

obv i cant be a jackass and call people faggots there but i'm intrested in what civil stuff is talked about there

>>54602067
are they really now saying just being supernatural gives you a clash vs gravity?

utter wankers

>>54601705
>Vampire and Changeling corebooks.
One of these isn't even fucking out.

>>54602122
>how does one join this WoD Discord then?

Invite in the Reddit link.

Note that the Discord is heavily moderated and fairly slow.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/4rvrtu/chronicles_of_darkness_discord_server/

>>54601923
OPP forums eat gabage, shit it out all runny, and then drink it like a smoothie.

>>54602146
>are they really now saying just being supernatural gives you a clash vs gravity?

Many are arguing that anyone with a power stat is allowed a CoW against virtually anything magical, largely because without such a rule, their special snowflake furry or leech wouldn't even be considered a minor nuisance to the local Awakened (which is perfectly consistent with the actual mage setting and themes).

>>54602166
Sounds like the last few weeks of threads to me, anon.

>>54602146
Im >>54601991
Gave reference to everyones clash of Will pools.
>>54602067
This guy says 'It doesn't apply to AOE spells.' The rest of his post is true.
>>54602146
You responded.

The argument has shifted from can't fight gravity (which you can't unless you have something that lets you walk on walls without paying attention to gravity, but no splat can do that) to 'It doesn't apply to AOE spells.' were the 'it' in question is Clash of Wills.

Any questions?

Even if Dave never publishes a Mage FAQ, the upcoming Crossover Chronicles, to the extent it's really not vaporware, will need to address these types of questions.

I do not pity the fool who develops a meta-crossover book(s).

>>54602192
Look, here's the thing.

If you're playing a Mage-centric game, then yeah, sure, all your wankery is fully fitting and canon, and mages should roll over any other supernaturals that aren't mage-related as MOTW, at best.

If you're playing a setting-agnostic crossover game, or any other splat-centric game that happens to have a mage npc or one pc their player harassed the ST into allowing? You can't let mages play by you dickheads/DaveB's wankeries, or you just ruin the entire fucking game.

That's how it is. That's the world you and yours have made for us all.

>>54602218
>meta-crossover book(s).

We already have a crossover book / series, Beast: The Primordial

MattMc will probably be the uber-developer for Crossover Chronicles. What could possibly go wrong?

>>54602238
>You can't let mages play by you dickheads/DaveB's wankeries

You mean mages can't play by their actual clear written and intended rules?

Of course, anyone can, and definitely should, houserule their own games as may be necessary and fun, but it would be at least intellectually honest and courteous to acknowledge the rules as they now exist.

I certainly appreciate why some players might not want mages running roughshod over their non-Mage games, but actually denying the existence of Mage canon rules and setting ike whiny, tantrum-prone toddlers just because you don't want or appreciate them is juvenile and ridiculous.

>>54602242
>MattMc will probably be the uber-developer for Crossover Chronicle

That's not remotely funny.

>>54602321
You guys sure do a great job at reading comprehension, I'll give you that.

Also, fuck you, Mage's canon rules and setting are shit, and while you're free to eat shit and love it as you so clearly do, it isn't worth smearing over any other setting or crossover game, for the simple reason that most people don't like things covered in shit.

>>54602378

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2GwrR-4Q9E

>>54602161
The argument that Changelings aren't supernatural beings is pretty much a lost one in WoD. Pun intended.

I don't like having to argue for woofs, but since they couldn't effectively argue if their lives depended on it, I'll bite.
What about woofs eating human flesh for essence? That explicitly causes aggravated damage. What does kinetic shielding do now?

>>54602403
Your favorite game is shit!

Shiiiiiiiit!

Prove me wrong.

>>54602418
look this is like saying you have a magical ball its does magical damage if you touch it but you need to throw it to touch somebody

once it his the kinetic shield it stops and doesnt get to touch the mage

same with your fucking jaws

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991KB, 500x250px

>>54602378
It's amazing how many hacks cited here actually are reasonable approaches to fixing even the utter nonsense to player twink creative thaumatology silliness. Also magefags are certainly rageprone primadonnas. I thought Werewolves were the ones prone to le Rage. Or Vampires with their beasts.

>>54602457
Dude's wearing an earring in the fag ear.

>>54602378
>claims to not like shit
>enjoys monster mash crossovers

>>54602457
Magefags may screech loudly, but they're not wrong with their bullshit.

Would you rather be a sore loser in the wrong?
Or a raging autist in the right?

>>54602406
No one said they weren't. Just questioning the assertion that regular attacks like a basic punch are made supernatural just because supernatural creatures are the ones doing the punching.

>>54602457
>It's amazing how many hacks cited here actually are reasonable approaches to fixing even the utter nonsense to player twink creative thaumatology silliness
Like what? Also, have we been reading the same threads? Werefags are the ones raging.

>>54602457
Honestly, it kind of makes me sad sometimes, Mage having turned into what it is and developing the player base it has.

A game centered around the occult, magical phenomena and modern day mages has a lot of potential for fun. Then they had to go and fucking drive it off a cliff, and try to drag along every other game they can reach for, all while chortling about how they were winning in so doing.

>>54602515
>A game centered around the occult, magical phenomena and modern day mages
This is exactly what the game is.

>Then they had to go and fucking drive it off a cliff, and try to drag along every other game they can reach for, all while chortling about how they were winning in so doing.
What are you talking about? None of the games are affected at all by Mage. What's wrong with Mage, exactly?

>>54602515
>person gets shot
>complains that he got shot
That's what you sounds like

The Magefags were never incorrect about any of this shit. They weren't the instigators.

>>54602537
>They weren't the instigators
They literally weren't. This all started by a Werefag asking how a pack could take a cabal, and all he got were honest answers that made some losers awooo all over the place.