/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

Mage (both new and old) is overrated.

>>54581723
faggot

>>54581779
I respect your opinion. I feel that Masquerade is very overrated.

>>54581963
I'm liking the tone of VtR better. It's playing up more of the horror aspect as I'm reading the rulebooks.

>Losing humanity for gaining blood potence or reading obituaries or using powers
>VII is really ambiguous
>Bloodlines for everything instead of having clans and antitribu
>Belial's Brood isn't nearly as competent or organized as the Sabbat.
>no higher authority in a city than the Prince and Primogen instead of having a complete pyramid for the Camarilla.
>Ordo Dracul for vampire science
>Kindred don't have history and origins can be whatever I want them to be.
Just a few reasons why I'm liking Requiem better so far. It's playing up vampirism as a curse a lot better than masquerade did. Coming from someone who's never actually sat down and played either. I've only been reading and the superheroes with fangs bit seemed accurate with the tone of masquerade.

>>54582126
Both really depend on how you and your group play. Masquerade was a lot easier to run as fanged heroes, depending on how often you ran feeding scenes. Requiem has the same issue, but there are a lot more mechanical bits built in to make it necessary to run things as "a monster am I"

>>54581779
Overrated? Maybe. Good games? Very.

>>54582149
VtR did a lot of things I liked. I think one of the best, and the one I forgot the mention, was doing away with fear of Gehenna being right around the corner. There's only so much "the world could end tomorrow." bit that I can care about and take seriously before I stop caring. I get enough of that in real life and I don't need vampire boogeyman to end the world in game too.

Incorporating humanity and the monster I am angle feels like it's more true to the intended angst of being a vampire. It feels like holding onto humanity is a lot harder and the real killer of vampires young and old is the beast taking over or the ennui, detatchment and apathy of existence instead of the Antedeluvians. Honestly, the Gehenna plot and Caine were alright for an overarching plot, but it was so interconnected with the system that it was referenced every other sentence.

Street level Werewolf. Plan on upping the ante tomorrow.

>>54582246
I honestly wish they'd left the strix out if it. They're kind of stupid, and even though they're not the complete Vampiric origin they give enough of a foundation to strip away the whole feeling of 'you're walking through the mist. There are things out there that you don't want to know you're there' feeling that any exploration of the origin previously had.

Now it's just demon owl junkies. What I wouldn't do for more on the lower depths, though. Inferno was a solid book, sure, but the off hand mentions they make in places are amazing.

>>54582332
Just go with the old VtR 1st edition book that has like 3 or 4 origin stories, one of which being spontaneous vampires.

>>54582572
Yeah, I know. We can alter it any way I want in games. Doesn't mean I can't look at the fluff and think 'this is stupid''.

Do you think King Arthur's Brittania might have no Lie, or a very weak one? Changeling also has a secret veil force thing, right? Basically I'm asking if you think the splats will be in the open instead of hidden from normal people.

>>54582798
Well, the mask and mien are automatic for changelings, they don't have any say in their existence. At most, by making use of glamour, they can strengthen or dispel their mask for a single scene, but it always returns otherwise.

(Though you can enchant a normal person to see your mien by making a contract with them, too.)

>>54581779
Werewolf the Foreskin 2e is the best White Wolf game ever made.

>>54581723
For Mage the Awakening we keep the arcanas to three and under for most play, and only go to 4 for the end game stuff.

All the other CoFD stuff I've played, Hunter, Geist, Changeling, Werewolf 1 and 2e, Prometheans (2e), plays well at all power levels.

The most I've played has been of Mage the Awakening 1.0 and 2.0, with Hunter and Werewolf being distant seconds.

>>54583355
>this is what autistic manchildren actually believe

>>54582332
The Strix were never the origin story, though. There was no core origin story. Strix were just a boogeyman/adversary thrown in to add in conflict (one would assume for those players too dumb to figure out that other vampires themselves were going to be a huuuuuuge source of conflict)

File: Girugamesh back at u bro.png (295KB, 600x519px)

295KB, 600x519px

>>54583405
>no counter argument

>goes to the "autistic manchildren" namecalling kneejerk reaction instantly

>couldn't even retort with the furry jab so faggot is likely a real furfag as well as a magefag

most tragic post of the day, already.

>>54583428
They are pretty explicitly the makers of the Julii, their write-up says they basically made vampires what they are today by giving them the Beast, and I think they are alluded to in all the possible clan origin stories in VtR 2e. I doesn't matter to me, as I don't play games about the origins of vampirism and I prefer the Cainite myth in general.

>>54583405
>this is what autistic manchildren actually believe

No, it's OK to like Forsaken 2e, although a belief that it's the "best" is definitely a minority view.

The scorn and ridicule should really be strictly reserved for the truly pathological and disturbed who defend the abomination known as Beast.

>>54583458
>autism intensifying

>>54583472
>Best
>Werewolf

There is literally no difference

>>54583461
You are reading* a lot of things* into the backstory that really aren't there. Extrapolating a relationship with the Julii into the creation of the Julii, extrapolating Julii as being the first vampires, and I mean where in the fuck are you pulling this "there is no beast before the Strix" and "the strix are in all the clan origin stories in 2E"? as if 2e even really gives detailed clan origin stories

File: 20150207_001410000_iOS.jpg (21KB, 200x200px)

21KB, 200x200px

>>54583524
Best writing and best systems design.
Prove me wrong.

You can't. It stands above everything else that has been put out under the White Wolf name. It might not appeal to you, but tough shit, take one of your momma's rhoid whipes and rub in a clockwise motion until your pain is soothed.

>>54583587
>Prove me wrong

Don't have to. Everyone here knows only furfags play it.

File: SuperiorityAcanthusStyle.jpg (243KB, 768x1024px)

243KB, 768x1024px

>>54583630
tell us about your waifu again

>objectively best tier
mage
demon
changeling
>it's ok shit
vampire
promethean
mummy
>you suck
hunter
werewolf
>kill yourself
geist
beast

File: SuperiorityObrimosStyle.jpg (96KB, 540x587px)

96KB, 540x587px

>>54583670
sorry, I forgot to post a selfie with the list

everyone thinks we Obrimobros are weak, but I warn you, son, don't fuck with me. I will bring you low.

File: Danny_F_P.jpg (65KB, 239x179px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 239x179px

Can Danny Phantom beat up a Geist the Sin eater?

>>54583702
Seriously you fat fuck? Mage is mechanically a disaster, and is written with the passion of local newspaper's classified section. Promethean and Werewolf are objectively at the top, mechanically and writing are both the best, no question. Vampire, changeling, and hunter on the next tier - possibly demon, but it has some mechanical bugs that kind of kink it up

needs work tier, geist, though I love the fuck out of it. Mummy too., and mage.

Kill yourself, Fucking Beast, we all agree

>>54583670
>objectively best tier
>changeling
>in the same category as mages and demons

You're funny Anon, now pull the other one...

>>54583670
That is the worst list I've seen here yet. No one really puts mage in a top tier, nor changeling.

Bad communities of players both. Really bad. Mage is right there with beast. oWoD changeling too. nWoD is a bit better.

>>54583774
Werewolf the forsaken 2e is definitely the best and a huge step up compared to 1e. 1e was so damn bleak and hella depressing. Mage has been and always will be mary sue bullshit.
>muh I bend reality with muh mind
>muh I am the superior splat
>muh hubris

File: bill-compton-512x512.jpg (77KB, 512x512px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 512x512px

>>54583670
>muh atheistic power fantasies
Fucking kill yourself my man

>>54583774
>Mage is mechanically a disaster

Old WOD Ascenion maybe, but CofD Mage 2e's mechanics are excellent, and compared to many WW games, fairly well playtested and internally balanced. The only real difficulties are the inherent complexities with rules designed as a total freeform magic system used to alter every aspect of reality. However, this constitutes little more than a slightly longer learning curve, and the rules are quickly and easily mastered by anyone but the intellectually slow, irredeemably lazy or willfully ignorant.

>>54583786
>Mage is right there with beast

I want some of what you're smoking, Anon.

>>54583787
Yes - it's been 2E Werewolf the Forsaken of which I've been speaking. It is really an amazing reboot of the product. I have never been able to get into Werewolf, but 2e is just such a well made product I'm really amazed. It's just a ridiculously fucking fun game. Most fun I've had in a RPG in a long time. Very deep and versatile.

>>54583806
>evident vampfag hating on its superiors

File: 1498672965360.png (690KB, 1752x492px)

690KB, 1752x492px

>>54583866
>everyone that shits on mage is a vamp cuck
You can't make this shit up

Why is beast so shit and who is responsible for it? Is there a way to make it better?

LANCEA RECTUM

The Changeling LARP communit..

Back in the 90's... in Northamton/Amherst, MA, there was a thriving WoD LARP community. Mostly Vampire, but we had some Mages, Werewolves and Changelings too. The faggots loved to be changelings.

There was one faggot who played a changeling who was a fucking annoying ponce called the Pink Pixie of Northampton. The other faggots hated him. First thing they did was start a rumor that he was hiv+. So he was hated even more. Next came the rape.

They would literally start forcing the guy to take it in the ass (very clearly not willingly) in order to participate in the LARPing events. It started out they'd take him behind buildings, but eventually they were doing him fairly out in the open.

And it only got worse. They would humiliate him before they let him play. It wouldn't just be an ass fuck, they would make him beg for it, wiggle his ass for it, do other shit.

I don't know why, but he always used want to participate in the Larping, even though no one wanted him around and he was a laughing stock, we couldn't even feel sorry for him because he was angry at everyone all the time (probably because of the rape and all.).

I hated all of those fucking LARPers back then. Of course I did it in Montreal when I was in Uni, but the girls were much, much better.

File: U just got pwned.jpg (223KB, 1536x1536px)

223KB, 1536x1536px

>>54583910
Beast speaks to me as a game. There are a lot of wrong thinking people out there, and I believe that I have the power inside me to teach them the lessons they need.

>>54583910
>Step one: Make Beast a Family/Moment Splat as opposed to a Family Hunger Splat (Becoming an Insatiable is now a bad end).

>Step two: get rid of most of the Author Tract Garbage that wasn't cleaned out in the revised 1E and Conquering Heroes.

>Step three:...Make Crossovers less about sitting back and wanking off and more about JOLLY CO-OPERATION!

>Step four: Make it so the Splats are annoyed by the JOLLY CO-OPERATION more than they are appreciative of it.

That's all I have right now.

>>54583958
Femwhales should stay in the water

>>54583897
Well, to be fair, anyone that hates Mage is a god fucking plebeian asswipe.

But you already knew this.

>>54584008
Bwahahahaha!!! Thanks Satyros, pull out of the goat and go get yourself a snack, you're getting hypoglycemic again.

Mage is basically a game for problem players.

That's what it is. A game for THOSE GUYS.

The worst powergamers.

The ones who just can't even handle normal superpowered play like oWoD allowed, but want something just ridiculously beyond because their tiny dicks leave them with such miniscule, fragile egos that they desperately need to build characters that can rewrite reality itself.

You can see it in the way they post. In the hostility they react with any post that even peripherally threatens their self esteem, which centers around the game itself. It's absolutely killed this thread, but it's nothing new.

It started with Second Edition, something about it drew that kind of player to the game, and they've been with it since. You should have seen their tears when Revised hit - it was fucking glorious. They were fucking torn apart by it... best fucking three years of misery on the White Wolf forums ever, by the way. They never got over it.

File: Mage Supremacy.jpg (98KB, 591x1017px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 591x1017px

>>54584215
I don't play Mage to powergame, you insufferable whore of a cunt.
I play Mage so I can be a goddamn wizard. I damn well expect to be powerful in the long run.

You're just a wee pissy little bitch

>>54584215
>The worst powergamers.
Well In Ascension there were two Battle Chantriesy the size of Portugal in the realm made entirely of lightning and explosions, so you're actually right

And don't even ask me what the Technocracy built.

>>54584236
The Traditions creates entire planets out of magic
The Union creates entire planets made of machinery.

Both factions are pretty ludicrous in application when outside the bounds of the Consensus.

>>54584255
>MARY FUCKING SUE: THE GAME

uh huhhhhhh

>>54584281
Oh please. Masquerade's Antediluvians eat the fucking planet. Who are the real Mary Sues?

>>54584255
Pencils Down, Death Rays Up is a pretty good example of this.

At one point in that they made Mercury, Mars and Jupiter into a really big gun.

Though this only happened because PD,DRU is a Mass Effect crossover, and the Reaper attack on Earth broke Consensus over it's knee like Bane breaking the Bat.

>>54584301
>Who are the real Mary Sues?

apparently the guys who can blow up universes by chewing bubble gum.

:^)

>>54584306
Also the other main splats got in on the fun...except for Hunter because when Tzimsce Wrestlemania and the Wyrm telling Luna to drive the moon closer so he can hit Reapers with his sword, "I can stab Vampires good." becomes a lot less relevant.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You will not be missed.

>>54583355
That is not how you spell Changeling: the Lost.

>>54582126
Don't forget, that the system is A LOT better. And do not listen to people who say that system does not matter.

>>54582332
You don't like Strix, or anything about Strix - do not use Strix. They just do not exist in "your" setting. I like Fog of Eternity, so even 2nd edtition has it when I run.

>>54583534
I'm not extrapolating anything. Remus, the first Julii, was explicitly visited by the Strix before dying, and his clan had a deal with them until Senex decided to refuse it. It ins't limited to Requiem for Rome. Here's something from VtR 2e:
>• Inanna, goddess of war, murdered her handmaiden, Lilith — who was called Stranger and Scorned and Serpent of Eden. Then Inanna knew regret. She ransomed Lilith back from the owls of the underworld. Yet there are those who say the trade was a trick. In their Plutonian slumber, the progeny of Lilith can hear the screech-owls keen: “We are owed. We are coming.”
Page 15, from the Daeva clan origins. The owls of the underworld are awfully familiar, and strange owls are present in write ups for other clans. The 1e book Wicked Dead also gave a lot of focus on how the original vampires did not have a Beast, and were merely humans who needed to drink blood to survive despite not wanting to, until one of them makes a deal with the Strix.

>>54581723
>Whats the power level in your normal games?

I run awakening a lot, so its mostly low level with a slow crawl to higher power with 5 being the endgame.

>>54582126
>I've only been reading and the superheroes with fangs bit seemed accurate with the tone of masquerade

I always felt that Requiem was the more Superhero with fangs game than masquerade. Its focus on humanity (not just the mechanic itself) means a lot of secret identity bullshit and having to deal with the human life of one´s character. Something that is a trope in Superhero stories.

On the other hand in masquerade i could make a vampire with no human life and there was lots to do.

>>54585660
When people say "superhero with fangs" they usually mean not having to worry much about losing Humanity and then fighting the Good Fight with trenchcoat and katana.

File: 2797918-ericshootingad_season4.jpg (20KB, 348x468px)

20KB, 348x468px

I fucking hate VtR for the: vampirism is such a horrible curse woe is me" shit.

>>54586194
There isn't that much of woe is me, but the point of vampires is that you are cursed.

>>54584805
>VtR is better
Yeah sure it is. I love how kindred are so much weaker now. I love how there are only five clans. I love how celerity is garbage now. I also love how everyone is even more insufferbly emo edged babies. I miss my fucking superheroes with fangs

>>54586194
I don't get why Vampirism is a curse when every other splat has theirs as a super power. It's not much of a curse if it gives super powers.

Promethean is arguable I suppose, but everything else is fucking superpowers.

>>54586290
That's because the developers are faggots.

File: 1499224026180.jpg (24KB, 480x270px)

24KB, 480x270px

>>54586290
>the slightest bit of sunlight can kill you
>can no longer eat your favorite food
>forced to drink the blood of humans
>have no real emotions
>have a raging beast inside you

>>54586349
>Can still eat, just vomit it up later
> can drink from animals
>no longer the fucking case, shut up faggot
> well shit you got me

>>54586400
>what's the point especially when there is no taste
>tastes like shit and will no longer nourish you once you get stronger
>since when fuckface?
Vampirism is a fucking curse in requiem and back when masquerade was actually good and not the superheroes with fangs it has become

>>54586349
>>54586330
>>54586400
The point is, why is vampirism a fucking curse when everything else is a super power? They should have just dropped the curse angle and just made it a super power.

>>54586435
>you still taste it you faggot, you dont loose your taste buds just cos your a vampire
>and, you can still drink it and survive on it, even if it means you sleep to lower bloodpool more often
>the whole no emotions/just remembering them is long gone

>>54586449
Its not a curse, its draws backs. Curse implies something out of masq from caine or some shit.

Vampirism has major bad side effects, its not a curse your super powers just come with disadds.

>>54586449
Because the devs are faggots. All supernaturals would have serious drawbacks if they weren't.

>>54586262
OK..?

>>54583750
Depends on the Sin-Eater.

>>54583936
that's some awesome gay slashfic, dude

>>54583985
You're not thinking clearly. What could be better than one woman? One BIG woman! Do you have any understanding how wild a big lass is in heat? I've been ridden so furiously that the chair I was sitting in broke. I've had beds literally fucked to pieces. You shirt-lifters can stick to women built like cambodian child wage slaves if you wish... give me a lass with ample bosom, child bearing hips and a firm right hook.

>>54585660
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who ever got players that literally raced to the bottom of the Humanity chart in the absence of any other long term goal.

>>54584301
PCs aren't Antediluvians you mong.

>>54586472
All food tastes like ash and awful bro, and causes an instant reaction unless you take a merit to eat food. Also, animal blood doesn't sate the hunger as human blood does, meaning you have to kill way more animals to stay on the same nourishment level. Which in turn leads to hunger/rage frenzies. It's a curse.

>>54589113
You aren't alone. Most of my players just want to be murder hobo's. That is the effect of learning D&D first (Everything is just a way to get exp. Kill it, take it's shit). I started with White Wolf games, so I'm in it for the story and Roleplay.

>>54589028
Do we like kiss now, bro?

>>54590202
So, try Werewolf.

>>54584835
>>54582654

>>54583787
1e's mechanics were a mess and the story was "You're fucked, and there's nothing even remotely interesting about why. It's just a numbers game. Good luck."

Onyx Path devs sending you dog porn would be a step up.

File: Seers on coke.png (32KB, 270x214px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 270x214px

In the mage book under the seers entry a Seer finds someone by hijacking their sympathetic link to a hot dog vendorand puppeting them for a conversation.

What level of mind/space needed for that?

>>54590854
that's due to a seer specific artifact. it
's possible in mage to replicate it but i remember it being like mind and space 4 or something it's been a while.

>>54588768
I would agree.

...Does yelling "BEWARE!" and hurling boxes at people constitute part of the Industrial Key?

>>54591136
>that's due to a seer specific artifact. it's possible in mage to replicate it but i remember it being like mind and space 4 or something it's been a while.
Is that the same artifact that's used to make Grigori out of Sleepwalkers?

>>54591633
Yes, but it's an artefact two steps to the left of a normal profane urim and the exclusive dominion of the Eye.

File: Dark_Danny_Phantom.jpg (23KB, 500x335px)

23KB, 500x335px

>>54588768
>>54591617
You guys are crazy. There is noway a sin-eater has a chance in hell beating Danny especially if he is an adult.

How do the assorted splats earn their money? Excepting Beast, of course, who are busy squatting in ditches poking berries up their nose.

And Changelings, who are starving bohemian artistes.

>>54591922
>How do the assorted splats earn their money?

They put point in resources, no questions ask. Duh.

Other than that Vampires use a combination of disciplines, long term investment and the lack of need to pay for utilities.

Werewolves can just negotiate with spirits of money or ATMs. Or use the spirits to get info for investments or similar things.

Mages just wish very hard and money appears.

File: The Tick.jpg (30KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 640x360px

Speaking of superheroes.

THE TICK

Virtue: Justice
Vice: Foolish
Aspirations: Fight Crime, Inspire People, Have Fun

Mental Attributes: Intelligence 1, Wits 2, Resolve 8
Physical Attributes: Strength 10, Dexterity 5, Stamina 10
Social Attributes: Presence 4, Manipulation 2, Composure 6

Skills: Academics 1, Crafts 1, Investigation (Crime Fighting) 3, Athletics (Jumping) 6, Brawl 6, Stealth 2, Survival 2, Weaponry 3, Empathy 2, Expression (Heroic) 1, Intimidation (Craziness) 3, Persuasion (Friendly) 2, Streetwise 2, Subterfuge 1

Merits: Area Of Expertise 1 (Crime Fighting, Craziness), Direction Sense 1, Indomitable 2, Interdisciplinary Specialty 1 (Crime Fighting, Craziness), Trained Observer 3, Greyhound 1, Iron Stamina 3, Parkour 4, Seizing The Edge 2, Allies (Superheroes 3), Inspiring 3, Iron Will 2, Striking Looks 2, True Friend 3 (Arthur), Iron Skin 2 (Advanced 2)

Willpower: 21
Defense: 8
Initiative: 11
Speed: 30 (Species Factor 15)
Health: 16 (Size 6)
Armor: 2/2
Potency: 7

Weapons/Attacks
Bare Fists [+0L Melee; 16 dice]

Dread Powers: Hideous Strength*, Juggernaut, Prodigious Leap*, Regenerate 1, Unbreakable, Wall Climb

*Hideous Strength: The Tick’s might is truly formidable; by spending a point of Willpower, he can increase his Strength by his Potency until the end of the scene. Furthermore, he adds his Potency as automatic successes on Strength + Stamina rolls made to perform a feat of strength, such as lifting a massive object, jumping or breaking free of restraints.

*Prodigious Leap: The Tick does not have to spend Willpower to use this Dread Power

>>54592126
>Speaking of superheroes.
Anon would you be willing to make Freakzoid?

>>54592209
Or even a version of Candlejack, I mean, that shouldn't be too ha

>>54592209
Funny you should mention Freakazoid, since I already had plans for writing his sheet. I just need to come up with an Electricity Elemental Dread Power first. Can anyone help me with that, please?

>>54592285
>Can anyone help me with that, please?
The only ideas I had for this were straight up flinging lightning at people and either manipulating electronics or travelling as an electrical current.

I like to think some of his stats should be geared towards him being a few hatstands short of a cake shop.

>>54590243
furry muderhobo is not a choice, but a way of life

>>54591922
What >>54592069 said plus of course stealing. Every splat can steal easily, they all have stealth/invisibility based powers, usually mind control powers too so you can sell anyone Golden Bridge. But some splats probably don't have real need for money for instance Prometheans are virtually all the time on the road. Werewolves would be pretty good at professional dog walking. Hunters could do pest control. Geists and mummies would be probably good morticians and grave diggers.

>>54586555
All supernaturals do have serious drawbacks.

Except Mages, of course.

Because Magefaggotry.

>1575 CAST indeed, captcha. Even google is a magefag nostalgic for "the good old days", I see.

>>54591922
I get your joke, but Changelings actually have one of the more diverse potential set of civilian jobs that work well for them, particularly since making/reclaiming a normal life is actively positive for their psychological well-being.

There are changeling soldiers, cops, schoolteachers, mechanics, IT professionals, morticians, veterinarians, plumbers, architects, fast food workers, cab drivers, etc etc etc.

>>54593139
>what is paradox

>>54593232
This guy gets it.

Also, Mages aren't too concerned about money. They focus on magical resources like Mana, Artifacts, Hallows etc.

>>54593328
Something that every mage player in these threads brag about how toothless and easy to get around, if it even exists as a real threat in their game due to ST houseruling?

>>54593328
Oh, and it's also literally only an issue when a mage abuses their power in a sloppy and very public manner, rather than something that actually affects them one iota so long as they exercise a modicum of discretion or planning?

It's a power mechanic, not a drawback that negatively affects their day to day life like pretty much every other supernatural splat has at least one or two of.

Are mages essentially privileged white males?

>>54593618
Fuck off.

>>54593369
>>54593444
Trying to reason with a mage fag is like trying to reason with a brick wall

Can I get a look over on my character. Feel free to leave comments they are turned on.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1u9n-kVOq--6xOClbNaATSSkTR20KX-7AuivpoMw9Njg/edit?usp=sharing

>>54593618
No, however it's indisputable that Mages are incredibly privileged.

>>54594110
Assuming this is 2eNot into using comments but your stats are mediocre, and you'd be better off focusing on str or dex not both. Abilities are also kind of all over the place and you'd be better focusing in one area. 1 dot in brawl is worthless. Also, I haven't checked in a while but I don't think you can have a specialty without having a dot in it, like you do in medicine.

I don't know what's going on with merits you get ten dots in 2e and each five let you get additional gnosis but it seems as if you are at gnosis 1 and your merits are low as fuck. Also, artifact three isn't really worth it and you'd be better off cranking it up or using those dots elsewhere. Finally, soul jar is pointless.

File: 49d.jpg (47KB, 600x549px)

47KB, 600x549px

>>54594110
>Abbadon, the hateful Acanthus Arrow who wants to kill Supernatural creatures, who has a gun as his dedicated tool, has an 'artistic blood' and demonic Nimbus, with a Rote about storing stolen souls, with an Artifact described as "Inferins the Fervent Blade"

>>54594351
Umm...I don't have a speciality in Medicine. Medicine is an Order Rote Skill which is why it's bolded. My specialities are in Firearms, weaponry, and Investigation

And Since I'm rather balanced between ranged and close combat. focusing on one over the other would put me at a disadvantage.

And I tried to build a Mercenary soldier. The Black Water type of mercenary, not the local thug for hire kind.

>>54594352
My group wanted me to play an Edgelord character because I'm normally such a nice guy.
Do you have a better idea for a Nimbus tilt for a guy named ofter the angel of destruction?

What are some ways a Pack of werewolves could take down a Cabal of mages?

>>54594454
I'd tie it all to the Acanthus principles more.
Perhaps make it all about a sense of hopelessness, the terror that a lack of direction or a loss of control can bring.
That's a lot more Acanthus than demonic imagery, which is more a Mastigos thing.

Also you've got 5 more merit dots to spend.

>>54594454
that's fine but your skills are all over the place none the less. you'd be better off concentrating them.

>>54594474
Ask the enemies of the cabal to take them down.

>>54594454
how much of an edgelord because you could get gnosis two and become a reaper, you'd need death three to not rely on a mentor and to cloak your nimbus.

Ask them first, because a tremere in a normal party is caustic.

>>54594474
Swift, overwhelming force against a weak and distracted cabal, in a public place.

And if you can, find some Mage friends to help you.

>>54594514
That's what I tried to do by tying in imagery of random events related to destruction into things that look planned (i.e. Art)

And the attempt was to look more angelic than demonic...which would be more Obrimos I guess...

>>54594454
Also if you want to be a real Edgelord, play a Guardian instead, and take a 4-dot Masque that will let you murder without suffering an Act of Hubris.

>>54594474
just tell the st to understat them and make them stupid.

>>54594527
Alright Any suggestion on what to concentrate I took some feedback for adjustments. Any more is always welcome.

>>54594514
Also I took Gnosis 2 so I converted those 5 merit points to Gnosis.

>>54594561
They are fine with me going full on Left hand path, with the understanding that our GoV will become my handler, but by GM Fiat we cannot start with a legacy, otherwise I would.

>>54594474
Why a cabal? I'm pretty sure a single Thyrsus master would make short work of a pack of werewolves.

>>54594620
i'd look at crafts and medicine over occult and larceny. Do you need drive, stealth and larceny?

>>54594885
Did he specifically say 'master'

What? He didn't?

Fuck off

>>54594931
Umm...
Stealth yes I could probably drop Larceny.
Drive is a question because in a car chase I'm going to need it, but I'm not sure if I'll have one to worry about.

>>54594474
It depends entirely on the Arcana of the Mages involved. Do they have an Acanthus? Things just got 100x more complicated. Is there a Moros Adept? You would need to make him a priority before he makes a nail gun that shoots silver nails, or even combines Piercing Earth and Transubstantiation to fuck you up with FMA silver spikes from the ground. Is there a Thyrsus with Space? Enjoy your Ban. Is there just a regular Thyrsus? Enjoy all the fucking Spirit shenanigans. Is there a Mastigos? Get him before he twists Space to buy time to cast Co-Location so they can all get out of there. Is there an Obrimos? How easily can werewolves shrug off lightning strikes?

Don't mean to sound like a Mage Supremacist, but it's pretty much impossible to answer your question without more details.

Is mind still the most powerful arcana or has fate supplanted it?

>>54594931
Okay moved 1 dot from Occult (the one I spent) from occult to Medicine so I know can do first Aid but he wasn't the company medic so he wouldn't know more than that.

What would you do with the dot from Larceny put it in Firearms?

>>54595206
In 1e, Mind was only the most powerful because almost everything was Subtle. It can still be incredibly powerful.

However with Fate you can practically rewrite the GM's story.

>>54595206
There is no single 'most powerful' Arcanum in 2e, as it all depends on too many a factor.

>>54595099
You shouldn't be worrying about what you think you need, but what would be most fitting for your character.

>>54595099
Also, this guy has 1 INT. Is Abbadon really a Shadow Name he would choose for himself?

>>54595296
Maybe he thinks he's referencing the 40k character.

>>54595276
Well for someone who part of the job would involve driving HumVee patrolling the mining compound, jungle, or what ever the job is drive would be a skill he would have developed I would think.

But he's also wits three His smart, educated some, likely went to church and has read Revelations. Probably about the only part of the bible he knows.

>>54595296
It's possible Wits 3 means he isn't stupid. Academics 1 means he has at least a high school level education possibly some community college. Probably attended a church growing up. Probably read revelations once or twice. Probably the only part of the bible he knows.

>>54595210
Yes.

>>54595672
er wits 2 still likely he might have heard it. Plus...
Abbadon was a character on Supernatural
Abbadon is a character in Warhammer 40k
And comes up in google when you put in a search in google "Angel of Destruction" Second result even after the movie "Angel of Destruction from 1994

>>54593232
>Changelings
>There are changeling soldiers, cops, schoolteachers, mechanics, IT professionals, morticians, veterinarians, plumbers, architects, fast food workers, cab drivers, etc etc etc.

Changelings are just so bourgeoise and unremarkable, particularly compared to the privileged elite of the Awakened.

Thank you everyone for the feedback!
I'm going to start writing the full background story from the 2 paragraph cliff notes version.

File: werewolf-glyphs.jpg (14KB, 224x400px)

14KB, 224x400px

WHAT DOES THIS SAY???

File: Werewolf Pack Mage Fate Worse Death.png (27KB, 423x289px)

27KB, 423x289px

>>54595204
>Is there an Obrimos? How easily can werewolves shrug off lightning strikes?

Forget lightning strikes, a even moderately competent Obrimos with Forces 2+ could render his entire cabal immune to kinetic damage. A pack of werewolves in Death Rage wouldn't even be an inconvenience. Similarly, the vast majority of werewolves could do little to defend against someone who controls gravity itself. A purportedly apex predator doesn't look too impressive hurtling towards the stratosphere. or pinned to the ceiling. Add in Thyrsus or Acanthus cabalmates, and it just becomes embarrassing for the werewolves, with no need for masters or even powergaming.

>See The Pack. Werewolves, like other street-level splats, should avoid mages or court them as allies.

File: NOAWOO.jpg (18KB, 575x324px)

18KB, 575x324px

>>54596121

File: sadwerewolf.jpg (192KB, 625x750px)

192KB, 625x750px

>>54594474
>What are some ways a Pack of werewolves could take down a Cabal of mages

L O L

>sad werewolves

>>54596121
"If you can read this, you've gone too far"
https://youtu.be/6Mwtt_EKIQk

>>54595725
>And comes up in google when you put in a search in google "Angel of Destruction"
This had better be how he chooses it.

>>54594885
Cabals are simply collections of mages, they by nature do not guarantee the presence of a master mage or any single school of mage. As such, there may be no master mages, nor even Thyrsus mages whatsoever.

Do mages have cast times or anything because they seem really fucking op. Is there a such thing as anti-magic fields or such?

>>54596637
They cast instantly with a single Yantra pool.

>>54596637
Without using reach...
The starting cast time is 3 hours!

Reach lets you speed that up but every time you reach you risk paradox which can really fuck over the mage.

>>54596637
>Do mages have cast times
Yes, although they do have ways of getting spells off quickly and Mage Armor is a reflexive Attainment now.

>Is there a such thing as anti-magic fields or such?
Not that other splats can set up, I'm pretty sure. Prime back in 1e could create a dead zone where magic couldn't be used. You're best bet as another splat is to start the confrontation in public and hope that the Mages aren't desperate or stupid enough to let the real magic fly.

>>54596637
Without spent Reach you're casting at ritual time.

A single Yantra is Reflexive. Any more than that takes another turn. Though some Yantras can garner a hefty amount of bonus dice.

>>54596700
Best thing to do is to do what Ninja did. Research your target, hit them unexpectedly, keep them unaware, unable to act, and take them with a plan tailor made to kill that one mage.

>>54596637
>Is there a such thing as anti-magic fields or such?

Yes, but Mages also have buttloads of anti-magic as well. Arguably better.

>>54596637
Mages can cast hella fuckin' fast if they want to

Though only lazy wizards waste a Reach like that
It's more pragmatic to work for your desired results

Unless you're in direct confrontation, don't go ham.

>>54596753
I really don't see how that would work. Unless you kill the Mage instantly and then vanish off the face of the earth, you're going to get fucked. If not by the Mage himself, then by his cabalmates, or his Order, or anyone who owes him favors or he can take out a favor with. And if you do manage to pull it off, you'll have to avoid the Mage cops that come looking for the guy who managed to kill a Mage unawares and without the use of Supernal magic.

Aren't Mudras a whopping +5 bonus?

gg quick-casting Mages

>>54596884
That's a turn, not a big deal. Especially not for someone who's a master and gets 8 dice.

File: Demon Mage Surprise.png (189KB, 426x926px)

189KB, 426x926px

>>54596753
>Research your target, hit them unexpectedly, keep them unaware, unable to act, and take them with a plan tailor made to kill that one mage

Much, much easier said than done, and the hypothetic was a pack versus a *cabal* of mages. When it comes to the synergy of multiple mages, no less with a spread of Arcana, a cabal is far greater than the sum of its parts. Also, add in a single master, and an attack on the cabal is effectively suicide by mage.

>See the crossover section in Demon Storytellers Guide

>>54596637
>Do mages have cast times or anything because they seem really fucking op.

Overpowered compared to what? Within their own gameline and setting, mage antagonists are easily as powerful as mages, if not moreso. Mage is not designed nor intended as a street-level game like Vampire, Changeling and Werewolf. In most circumstances, a mage will be far more powerful and versatile than most other splats, but crossover balance was intentionally not a priority. If canon mages are included in other splat's chronicles, expect them to be the "big bad" or a deus ex machina. If you insist on crossover, you're better off using the faux mages-light found in Hunter.

>>54596905
A +5 Mudra (it caps at five) is a single Reflexive Yantra.

It's an instant cast.

>>54596844
>Mage cops

Sentinels tend to be powerful, nasty and unforgiving.

#OtherSplatLivesMatter

#NotAllVampires

>>54596844
There are a lot of ways to kill a mage who is unaware they are in danger. Spells are instant for the most part not reflexive. And I would argue as a ST that you have to be conscious at the moment you wish to use the spell.

Meaning a Mage cannot cast a spell in his sleep for example. Again it all depends on your target as to how you take them down.

>>54596928
>A +5 Mudra (it caps at five) is a single Reflexive Yantra.

If the Rote Mundra is an Order specialty skill, the bonus can go to +6.

>>54596137
If werewolves claws can fuck up spirits, it might take stronger magic than the simple stuff to stop basic kinetic energy to shield them, I'd probably rule a damage reduction rather than full immunity, in a Werewolf chronicle/crossover.

>>54596985
If it were a Spirit based spell I'd maybe allow for a Clash of Wills, but other wise that doesn't make much since, they claws still require kinetic energy to function, even against Spirits.

>>54596985
Yeah no. It's flat-out kinetic immunity. This isn't arguable.

Not unless you want to house-rule it differently.

>>54596971
>Spells are instant for the most part not reflexive
Mage Armor is a reflexive attainment. You had better goes balls deep on the first attempt, or else the Mage can survive and you can quickly find yourself being the one on the lookout for ambushes.

>Meaning a Mage cannot cast a spell in his sleep for example.
And how do you plan on invading a Mage's Sanctum, which are typically protected by wonderful things like Wards with various modifiers, guardian spirits, and bound ghosts? That's if you can even find the Sanctum. Mind magic can obscure it from you. Space can make a permanent portal in a dummy house to the real Sanctum (that has no other entrance) that you won't be able to see or interact with unless you have Space Mage Sight.

>>54596971
Contingencies would make up for the lack of awareness issue.
Not that every Mage is going to have them up

Oh wait, Mage Armor
Although Shielding will always be more preferable

>>54597040
In a crossover you have to house rule. Especially with mages, which need to be seriously taken down several notches in a lot of areas. The systems weren't designed to mix, and while the power levels of the other splats seem to have taken some consideration of some sort of a design bible into account, Mage didn't, so it takes special heavy nerfage for crossovers, and then it works pretty well. That's what I'm saying. Chill.

>>54596985

Werewolf claws only deal special damage to spirits because of a werewolf's half-spirit nature, and then only if the werewolf's renown places him at least two Ranks about the particular spirit.

Unless a werewolf is using a special gift or similar ability, his attacks still rely on base kinetic energy, and are normally more than capable of shredding most anything. It's really not usually an issue, as most other supernatural beings don't have abilities that effectively negate physical damage.

In any event, an Obrimos could easily also rely on his Forces or Prime Mage Armor to neutralize any supernatural-additive damage. Simply, direct physical or magical confrontation against an even moderately competent Obrimos will not go well for all but the most powerful of combatants. It plays to and Obrimos' strength, instead of potential weakness.

>Let's not even discuss how badly manipulation of gravity can be abused

>>54597040
I'd argue that with Werewolves being half spirit, half material, it's not pure kinetic damage. You'd need the Thyrsus too.

>>54596928
I thought highspeech was a bonus.

>>54597170
No.

>>54597170
That's not how this works. It's not going to do jack shit. Not unless the mage is some sort of spirit.

>>54597170
Arcana don't work like this in 2e.

>>54597181
Yes.

>>54597172
It's not a terribly big bonus, I believe. Every Order Mage gets it for free.

>>54597209
Maybe.

>>54597170
>You'd need the Thyrsus too.

No, but a competent Thyrsus can use Shielding to essentially no sell a werewolf pack's Gifts, Rituals and fetishes.

A Thyrsus with Forces or Obrimos with Spirit can really ruin a woof's day.

File: DaveB - Gravity Control.png (12KB, 610x161px)

12KB, 610x161px

>>54597157
>Let's not even discuss how badly manipulation of gravity can be abused

>>54597246
last time I checked both powers didn't completely shut down a werewolf but -2 to 5 on all attacks and effecting the mage terribly skews the stakes.

>>54597188
Sure it does. Spirits can still hurt mages, just fine. No "hurr durr, mages can't be hurt by spirits because they aren't spirits."

What's funny is, you bitches are so insecure, you can't even handle the idea of some hypothetical hint of vulnerability in a crossover discussion so you're twisting yourselves into little intellectual knots over it.

Mage is just a game of terrible Mary Sues, you are all just terrible. Worst fucking players in the White Wolf/OPP community.

>>54597246
I'd agree with this.

>>54597271
Oh I was thinking of 1e this requires a clash of wills. Harsh but if the WW wins he wins it all.

>>54597280
Now you're over exaggerating things a bit.

The point here is that Forces would be more than sufficient to garner an immunity to the ripping claws of a werewolf. No Spirit necessary. Not unless it's an obvious necessity.

That's all.

>>54597271
Hush, don't you dare give them any hint of a scare that their Mary Sue edgelord characters might be in theoretical danger from some potential encounter at some point in the future, someday!

File: bwahaaaw.jpg (12KB, 258x245px)

12KB, 258x245px

werefags once again trying to 'mark' their territory with their 'piss' arguments

This won't end well for them

Ok, so Forces, Spirit and Space (whether you use only one of them or two / three) are capable of messing up Packs of Werewolves wholesale. What about the other Arcana?

Mary Sue Edgelord the Awakening/Asenscioun - I like that. From henceforth the game formerly known as Mage shall be known as Mary Sue Edgelord, in honor of its players.

You lot are the stars of this board, its shining primadonnas, you've earned this honor!

>>54597325
A kinetic shield isn't in the books but would basically negate attacks unless you won a clash of wills. So if your dicepool was bigger you could win but still have to deal with mage armor. Mages in 2e a way stronger than in 1e.

>>54597383
>Forces
>Spirit
>Space
>What about the other Arcana?

How the fuck did you just disregard Matter?

>>54597391
There would be no Clash of Wills involved with claws colliding with a kinetic barrier.

The werewolves are going to need to find a workaround to deal with it. Not that it will be easy.

>>54597387
All this because some mutts can't challenge high-end wizards? Oh please, control your hormones.

>>54597424
Werewolves are supernatural beings, with a supernatural "stat" akin to Gnosis, so yeah, it is a clash of wills situation. That's how crossover shit is basically handled. The system works that way, always has.

>>54597424
It is. All the shielding powers do is force a clash of wills. No more no less. You fail you can't do it you succeed you can. It's simple on dave's b part to standardize it though it does bog the system in gameplay. There's no reason it would work any different.

>>54597497
Clash of wills only applies if they have an actual power that conflicts in some way, not just by being supernatural.

>>54597492
Whatever, edgelord. Shouldn't you be telling us again about how an archmage could enslave luna or kill caine?

>>54597518
>Shouldn't you be telling us again about how an archmage could enslave luna or kill caine?

Don't tempt me. I will destroy this thread if I must.

>>54597518
You yiff-fags really get butt hut about being inferior, loving the weakest splat must result in you having hurt feelings a lot.

>>54597391
>A kinetic shield isn't in the books but would basically negate attacks unless you won a clash of wills. So if your dicepool was bigger you could win but still have to deal with mage armor. Mages in 2e a way stronger than in 1e.

Depends on the Dm of course but I would rule that things like the gifts that allows armor piercing would add to the roll.

>>54597400
I do have to ask that because if there's anything that can shutdown physical combat the hardest it's actually matter.

>>54590140
thats the fucking curse from masq you cocksucker, no longer in requiem

>>54597501
>All the shielding powers do is force a clash of wills

Looking through them now. No. Not all of them.

>>54595238
wut? fuck off

>>54597543
If Alchemist's Touch is anything to go by, there would be no CoW involved with a kinetic shield.

>>54597506

The supernatural strength behind those claws?

>>54597576
where does it vary?

>>54597280
Do you understand what a kinetic shield means? It means that you don't make contact, or that if you do, it's nothing more than a tap. Can werewolves cause spirit damage just by tapping something?

>>54597632
yes

>>54597596

Only the more esoteric Arcana Shielding like Spirit and Mind use a Clash of Wills defense. The more physical Arcana like Forces and Matter incrementally negate damage. The sample spells in the books demonstrate easy and consistent guidelines for such Shielding spells.

>>54597492
>All this because some mutts can't challenge high-end wizards?

Shielding is a two dot Practice. Virtually all novice Obrimos or Thyrsus are more than capable of dealing with werewolves (just like a newbie Acanthus will easily fuck with a changeling).

This cannot be stressed enough, why combatting a particular mage, do not under any circumstances play to their strengths.

>>54597632
Actually I've been corrected, I misunderstood. It is just a clash of wills situation. Primal Urge vs Gnosis. When the Werewolves' Primal Urge tears through the Mages' gnosis and the shield fails, that kinetic/spirit damage is going to be doing its job just fucking fine.

>>54597518
>edgelord

We're not discussing vampires.

>>54597628
>These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or
mundane phenomena, while protecting against a number of
supernatural attacks equal to the spell’s Potency. Such attacks
must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target

magefags always leave this part out

>>54597617
Stats above 5 are still fallen world attempts, as are any magical enhancements that merely increase your stats. A kinetic shield No-sells it. Claws just don't beat kinetic nullification, no matter how high your stats are.

>>54597698
#aretheymundaneornatural

>>54597679
You've been corrected incorrectly.

>>54597698

So power that increases stats isn't a power? As that sounds like two powers conflicting (And thus force of will time)

>>54597679
You are dead fucking wrong, bucko.

>>54597679
You mean 'If'. Iirc Mages are really good at Clash of Wills. You also have to deal with the potency of the Shielding spell, which can really be something as Shielding spells are Apprentice tier.

>>54597719
a power to conflict with a strength increase is one that decreases strength you utter retard

>>54597739

A power that increases damage would conflict with one that prevents damage.

>>54597719
They don't conflict, Clash of Wills requires an actual power that does something meaningful. You are still just using /more/ kinetic energy by increasing your stats. So there isn't an actual power that interacts in some direct way, if you had some sort of a spirit of kinetic energy that had kinetic influence bound to your claws then maybe you could clash, but just being strong doesn't do shit, even if the reason you are strong is magic.

>>54597694

See >>54597672

>>54597746
no you are a retard fuck off

When did the werespergs get here?

>>54597501
Exactly - in the face of a being with something other than Integrity, like Wyrd, Blood Potency, Primal Urge, Azoth, Primum, the shield is going to force a Clash of Wills, rather than offer blanket immunity.

It's a two dot ability for Christ's sake! That's a pretty damn good deal. And these assholes think it buys them blanket immunity. Oh lord, that is priceless!

File: CoW-DaveB.jpg (58KB, 1176x322px)

58KB, 1176x322px

>>54597617
>The supernatural strength behind those claws?
>>54597497
>erewolves are supernatural beings, with a supernatural "stat" akin to Gnosis, so yeah, it is a clash of wills situation

That's not how things work at all in 2e books, Mage, Werewolf or otherwise.

In fact, most spells ignore a character's "supernatural stat" entirely under the new, and unique to Mage, Withstand mechanics.

Withstand, and an Exceptional Success' ability to ignore it, no less most mage's ability to CoW with most anything, virtually ensures mages do not play well with others in crossover situations. DaveB mostly ensured Mage remained a walled garden among CofD gamelines.

>>54597749
There is no kinetic shield spell in the book therefor it is creative thaum and suffers from those rules

its wierd that only creative thaum text has those drawbacks and written spells dont but thats your problem not mine

>>54597506
Right, the inhuman, supernatural, magical strength behind those claws.

>>54597777
It's only blanket immunity if it's of a more physical nature, which doesn't account for most of the Arcana.

Really, only Forces, Matter and Life offer such. The rest are going to be Clashed, short and simple.

>>54597782

Fuck I hate Withstand. Outside of any power stuff, it's just a really bad bit of game design.

>>54597791
Which manifests as fallen kinetic energy and is nullified with out a power that directly interacts with kinect energy.

>>54597790
>what is alchemist's touch

>>54597538
Speaking as someone who plays Mage, but thinks you lot who argue here are a bunch of whiny edgelord cunts, you all do seem terribly afraid of their claws here.

>>54597817
wtf is reading
>This spell only protects the mage from harm that comes due
to an intrinsic property of the material. The damage from a gun
or a sword, for example, comes from the force behind the impact
and thus isn’t reduced by this spell

>>54597560
it probably is, Requiem just doesn't have the full bulk of text that Masquerade did explaining it all.

>>54597837
We aren't afraid of their claws, they just seem too stupid to under stand that all that mass under them means nothing to a kinetic shield, likely because they are too retarded to know what kinetic energy is.

>>54597837
>you all do seem terribly afraid of their claws here.

>arguing the mechanics corresponding to kinetic attacks
>must be fear
This is where you fail

Alright, going through the book here. Clashes of Wills are Gnosis + Arcanum. Willpower can be spent to bolster them, and spell potency helps as well. So for a Werewolf this would translate to what, Primal Urge + whatever the hell determines how strong their slashes are, and whatever they can spend to help? The spirit powers don't factor in here, I believe. Werewolf players correct me if I'm wrong, but if you don't make contact, the spirit claws don't do anything, right? Do they add to physical damage? And the book does say that Shielding spells do provide blanket immunity to "natural or mundane phenomena". Is there anything inherently supernatural about a werewolf's physical attacks? Or would they just fall under "natural"?

>>54597856
that's not what I was referring to.

nice scapegoating

:^)

>>54597879
Alchemists touch has no relevance vs claws so go shit somewhere else,

>>54597875
>there anything inherently supernatural about a werewolf's physical attacks?

The fact they can stab spirits to death with them implies that they are inherently supernatural. Most wolves can't do that.

>>54597837
>Speaking as someone who plays Mage,
Sure.

>>54597896
>missing the point this much

:^)

>>54597898
>does nothing special to mages
>purely a kinetic attack of force to them
>kinetic shield negates it

>>54597898
But is there anything supernatural about them on a physical level to determine how strong they are? A bullet enchanted to do spirit damage is still just a bullet, and wouldn't get past a kinetic barrier.

>>54597810
It's not bad game design, as it works perfectly within the bounds of Awakening.

You seem to be hung up on the crossover idea of WoD, which isn't focal here.

>>54597898
If the kinetic shield was cast on a spirit this might matter.

>>54597916

How does the mage stop it being supernatural? As even if it's not doing anything specifically to them, it's not a natural or mundane phenomena.

Whacking a mage with the sheath of excalibur wouldn't be whacking them with a mundane thing, even if the sheath itself isn't helping the whacking.

What's this spirit claw shit called? Looking it up in the book.

>>54597941
Excalibur's Sheath has no powers that interact with kinetic energy, so it doesn't generate a clash of wills.

>>54597924

That bullet wouldn't be mundane any more because it's enchanted.

>>54597925
Its hard to have effective enemies or threats when you cant know for sure if their defences are just going to be ignored at some point.

"oh look the big bad as turned up", Exceptional success, "haha that wasnt that hard"

that makes internal balance hard

>>54597963
And delivered entirely via kinetic energy, and therefore, negated.

>>54597941
It's still kinetic energy, you dumb ass fuck. It's negated.

How is one -this- retarded?

>>54597958

That doesn't matter. The protection only affects 'Mundane and natural phenomena'. It doesn't matter HOW the effect is non-mundane.

>>54597963
But the kinetic force is still totally mundane, which is what is being shielded against.

File: AlchemistsTouch.png (209KB, 830x585px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 830x585px

>>54597817
>what is alchemist's touch

It's a Matter 2 Shielding spell, and the basis for an equivalent creative thaumaturgy Forces 2 Shielding spell that does nothing more than replace a type of matter with a type of force.

Remember that DaveB very openly and intentionally removed all speed bumps or game balance limiters in the 2e Arcana. The result is that even some low level spells are now devastatingly effective. This can also be seen in Forces with gravity. It's no longer limited to high Forces dots, and is often a veritable "I Win" button in combat.

See
>>54597266

Why do people think street level games like Vampire and werewolf have some sort of chance against the starting at tier 3 gameplay mages?

>>54597974
>"oh look the big bad as turned up, Exceptional success, "haha that wasn't so hard"
>"oh shit he defended against that with Shielding, FUCK. This isn't going to be as easy as I thought."

>>54597989

Because we are having a very different opinion on what counts as 'Mundane' for this purpose.

>>54597995
A claw is mundane no matter how much you want it to not be.

>>54598015
Yes and one can shield versus everything at the same time, all the time

magefags are hilarious

>>54598018
Whether it's mundane or not is irrelevant. It's still kinetic energy. Did you go to school or what?

>>54597280
>Spirits can still hurt mages, just fine. No "hurr durr, mages can't be hurt by spirits because they aren't spirits."

If a spirit is attacking a mage protected by a Kinetic Shield with a kinetic attack, the mage will be protected. The source of the attack is irrelevant. See Prime Mage Armor for a comparable analysis.

>>54598004

...heck, Alchemists Touch doesn't actually protect vs Aggravated (Even with the upgrade, it's still not immunity)

>>54597974
Unless you're a Master who goes ham with Unmaking spells, an Exceptional Success isn't an instant win against the big bad. Oh wow, nice Exceptional Success on that Windstrike, Ronald. Too bad it didn't really do much against the Gate's Ochemata (who just wants to be loved).

A clash of wills doesn't happen unless a power specially interacts with that phenomenon. Other wise it just loses. "Strength" Or "Magic Claws" Don't interact with that phenomenon, so don't generate a clash.

I am both amazed and appalled by the werefags in this thread.

>>54597995
The kinetic energy is still very mundane, and it's what is being shielded against, not its carrier. A Telekinetic Strike would evoke a Clash of Wills. A spirit damage bullet, or otherwise natural spirit claws, would not. If it was a spirit shield, Clash of Wills.

>>54597632
Do you understand what mundane vs supernatural means? Yes bubula, I think you do. But you're being stubborn because it means your Mary Sue might get a widdle scratch from a big bad woof, or a scary vampire. Poooor baby.

>>54598086

By that logic literally everything that isn't 'A spell itself' is immune. Well, unless it deals aggravated damage (As people seem to be basing this on alchemist's touch).

>>54597692
Projection. There's not a single vampire here.

>>54598097
>it means your Mary Sue might get a widdle scratch from a big bad woof, or a scary vampire

Except they don't get a 'widdle scratch' because of muh kinetic barrier.
Piss off to Mars already.

>>54598082
how the fuck are did the werewolves get into a position to even attempt to claw the mage?

That mage needs a good talking too for letting it get that far.

>>54598097
It's sad that you're trying so hard. The kinetic energy is mundane as far as I know. It's a shield against kinetic energy. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

>>54598086

So a mage would be immune to Excalibur or Durandal itself as while it's an enchanted sword it deals damage with kinetic energy?

>>54598113
>'A spell itself'
A gift would also work, but there aren't any that interact meaningfully with a kinetic shield. Merely increasing more kinetic force on the other hand, does nothing.

>>54598138
yes

laying the sword on them doesnt hurt now does it so the sword itself doesnt cause any damage right? how hard is this to understand

>>54597925
No I love mage but it and paradox are shit systems in 2e. they lack bite.

>>54598177
Ascension had too much bite

>>54598154

Wouldn't they also be immune to the spell? As while the spell is creating kinetic energy, the energy itself is just mundane?

As the magic is creating kinetic energy in both cases.

>>54598177
they only lack bite if you dont challenge your pc's

it quickly starts to hurt if they need to reach or have multiple spells up at once

File: jesus.jpg (24KB, 401x372px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 401x372px

How did this argument happen?

And who is in the right?

>>54586262
Superheroes with fangs was way more edge weeb shit than VtR. Though it's a vamp game, and vampfags are insufferable so you shouldn't be surprised it's still there either.

>>54598113
Not true. A Ghost's influences are supernatural. Clash of Wills against Death Shielding. Dominate, supernatural. Clash of Wills against Mind Shielding. A Werewolf's elemental gifts, supernatural. Clash of Wills against Matter or Forces Shielding. But unless the kinetic energy is supernatural and not just a natural force, it doesn't evoke a Clash of Wills. Is it supernatural? What stats determines a Werewolf's physical strength when transformed?

>>54598138
>o a mage would be immune to Excalibur or Durandal itself as while it's an enchanted sword it deals damage with kinetic energy?

Yes, Kinetic Shield would protect a target from the cutting and stabbing damage from the sword. Non-kinetic damage such as mental, spiritual or direct magical attacks would still be possible. although other Shielding or Armors, particularly Prime Armor, could provide a mage with additional protection.

>>54597698
A winning roll on the Clash of Wills begs to differ. Claws rip right through. Watch out, young mages, for the Werewolf with a Primal Urge higher than your Gnosis.

>>54598192
If the spell created raw kinetic energy it would generate a clash, but a spell that does something else resulting in more kinetic energy would not.

>>54597710
Just because the correction says what you don't want to hear doesn't make it anything but completely, 100% right, and you know it.

>>54598216
Does Primal Urge determine the physical strength of a transformed Werewolf?

>>54598216
Can they get past the armour 11 which is also immune to armour piercing even if they do get past the kinetic shield?

>>54598216
Your ill informed LARPing doesn't make it true.

>>54598223

So if the magic sword generated kinetic energy from nothing it would work? (So could send someone flying across the room with the slightest tap)

>>54598216
Won't matter. As kinetic barriers don't invoke Clash of Wills

:^)

>>54598199
No at point it starts becoming a slaughter house every confrontation if you actually challenge PCs because the system
becomes increasingly binary. In 1e outside of bullshit extended spell rules both paradox and damage was done in a way that let you have fights that weren't exalted levels of retardation.

>>54598252
this guy is a retard

>>54598216
Also, Spell Potency, Arcanum rating, and optionally a Willpower point all help Mages in Clash of Wills.

>>54597731
This is what every group I've played with has done. You are pulling shit out of your ass bucko. You've been told, just get over it.

>>54598252
Yes, if the sword created a magical effect such as 'kinetic strike' on contact, it would generate a clash of wills. Assuming you made contact.

>>54598203
Magefags pointed out that werewolf claws are effectively useless against a mage with Forces

They went berserk over losing a supposedly minimal advantage.

>>54598275
House ruling to make things easier for werewolves has no baring on actual rules.

>>54598270
advanced potemncy +1
advanced duration +1-+4
willpower

thats it for bonus to clash for mages

>>54598292
So this entire argument consists of Werefags sperging out?

>>54598292
>>54598315

A lot of people arguing exactly what counts as mundane/natural as the book doesn't really clarify that term. At this point it's mostly just people yelling 'Is too' and 'Is not' back and forward because there isn't a GM to adjudicate.

Magefag here
If I were a werewolf and somehow knew the person I was going against had a magic anti-kinetic energy shield, I would do something like imbue my claws with a poison spirit that infected anything I touched. I don't know why werewolf players are so uncreative they keep trying to ramp up more kinetic energy when they run into an anti-kinetic energy shield instead of finding a new solution.

Yo can anybody show me some text of the often used argument that mages in fiction are stupid?

I bet most of the people using this argument havent even read the mage rulebook let alone any fiction on the subject.

>>54598131
>how the fuck are did the werewolves get into a position to even attempt to claw the mage?
>That mage needs a good talking too for letting it get that far.

Let's not forget that all mages can inflict Aggravated damage at sensory range with *any* Arcana at only 4 dots. That's a trick possessed by virtually no other supernatural beings.

>>54598113
>By that logic literally everything that isn't 'A spell itself' is immune. Well, unless it deals aggravated damage (As people seem to be basing this on alchemist's touch).

Aggravated damage is extreme rare in CofD 2e, and normally requires WMD-level attacks, near unique supernatural abilities (unlike WOD, claws and fangs in of vampires and werewolves don't do Aggravated damage in CofD). or sorcery.

>>54598299
Those are bonuses, but the base is determined by Gnosis + Arcanum.

>>54597747
Supernatural beings very existence is out of the norm in a meaningful way. Their very essence is out of the norm in a meaningful way. The Clash of Wills reflects that. Jesus, you are having a great deal of trouble dealing with a mechanic that is imminently functional.

Did you really think you could make your characters reflexively immune to the might of a powerful supernatural being like a werewolf or vampire with a simple two dot skill? I mean seriously? It's almost funny.

>>54598334
look asshole, unless you can find a way to get your claws to do damage without using kinetic energy to do so go fuck yourself.

>werefag claws magefag
>magefag is immune cuz of muh kinetic shield
>werefag denies it
>magefag confirms it
>werefags revolt
>magefags retaliate
>werefags make shit up
>magefags screech

Werefags are wrong and pissy
Magefags are correct but pathetic

Congrats werefags on bating the magefags
Congratz magefags on autistically winning this

>>54598216
Attacking doesn't provoke a clash of wills for any spell. The spell you clash has to be directly opposing the ability you're using, so you could only use your strength-buffing powers to Clash a spell that reduced your strength.

>>54598357
THE BOOKS CLEARLY SAY CLASH OF WILLS IS BASED ON POWERS, NOT INNATE SUPER NATURAL NATURE.

>>54598375

Yes but the shield only protects against natural and mundane effects.

>>54598362
Exactly my point.

>>54597746
This is false, as kinetic damage is Fallen and doesn't count.

>>54598357
You need to stop fighting Mages with mundane attacks. Then you might actually get somewhere.

>>54598357
>Did you really think you could make your characters reflexively immune to the might of a powerful supernatural being like a werewolf or vampire with a simple two dot skill? I mean seriously? It's almost funny.

Again, this depends on the Arcana. If it's physical(Life, Matter & Forces), you're nigh-immune.

Any other Arcanum demands a Clash of Wills.

>>54598370
if a werewolf had a stinger it would clash. just go to a bee sprit and get a stinger that also breaks magical armor.

>>54598375
powers that directly oppose it.

Directly opposite a kinetic shield is a anti-kinetic destroy power effect, which is?

using kinetic energy in an attack however supernatural or some shit isnt directly opposed to the shield so no clash and claws are natural if not mundane

File: 1431041324990.png (195KB, 350x291px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 350x291px

Where are these spirit claws detailed in Forsaken 2e? What determines a Werewolf's physical strength when transformed? Still waiting on Werefags to answer these. Trawling through the book is slow going.

>>54598388
Claws are natural weapons. The ability to do things to spirits isn't some innate part of the claws, its part of the werewolf template, and doesn't interact with anything but spirit powers, which it could potentially generate a clash against.

>>54598315
No, it literally consists of multiple magefags sperging out because of one debatable comment hours ago.

As usual.

>>54598392
my point is how the fuck do you get your poison claws to even touch the mage you ass hole.

>>54598388
Claws are explicitly mundane. Only the strength increase is supernatural, not the damage.

>>54598410
This isn't mundane kinetic damage but some sort of supernatural/spiritual damage and could probably deal damage through Kinetic Shield if you also bypassed Mage Armor after that.

>>54598441

>Claws are explicitly mundane.

Citation required?

>>54598441
I meant like the DMC version of a stinger.

>>54598429
All I see are werefags desperately trying to argue that magefags can't render themselves nearly immune to their claws, which is clearly something they can do.

The werefags sound almost religious in their outlook at this point.

>>54598436
Kinetic shield=no force behind blow
Not 'no touch'.

>>54598452
Claws are natural not mundane though

>>54598471
So much so they haven't even brought up literally anything but their precious claws.

Do kinetic shields garner a Clash of Wills, yes or no?

>>54598474
no force behind blow so how do you touch something that isnt wanting to be touched?

hey mage come let me touch you with my poison claws i cant swing at you with them you need to come over here and touch them

Are you this retarded?

>>54598492
Against other kinetic POWERS yes. Other wise there is no clash and the kinetic force just loses.

>>54598410
>>54598334
>I would do something like imbue my claws with a poison spirit that infected anything I touched.

That's a good idea, and finally begins to not rely on attacks that play on a mage's strengths

>Pray mage doesn't also have Life 2, Matter 2 or Spirit 2 Shielding that could defend against poisons or spirit-related attacks
>Don't forget that a Mage with Kinetic Shield also very likely has Forces Mage Armor and controls gravity, so touching him will not be easy at all

Poison is the only solution for mage players.

This thread proves it more than ever before.

>>54598492
Against physical attacks? No. That's like saying all bullets are going to be Clashed.

The Werefags in this thread are repulsive.

>>54598496
Correct, they get their defense against the touch still. It wouldn't be easy to touch them. But a kinetic shield wouldn't negate the touch, just the damage from it. Plenty of other things the mage could have would negate the touch though. Just not the kinetic shield.

>>54598508
So werewolf claws just don't do anything to it then. Ok. I'm not sure why this argument is so fucking extensive.

>>54598492

Ask your GM. As this is a spell that isn't actually in the book, is relying on the non-defined 'Natural and Mundane' and is also working with trying to work between splats.

>>54598512
no its stupid because claws still rely on kinetic energy to do anything

dont woofs have some mental powers since this mage seems to only have forces

>>54598544
As others have noted, if we go by Alchemist's Touch it wouldn't invoke a Clash.

Whether it's total immunity or not is another question entirely.

>>54598357
>Did you really think you could make your characters reflexively immune to the might of a powerful supernatural being like a werewolf or vampire with a simple two dot skill?
No. For starters, Shielding spells aren't reflexive. That's Mage Armor, a series of reflexive attainments that you get at two dots in an Arcanum. 2 dots in Matter, reflexive Matter armor that does things like soften bullets speeding at you while hardening the air around you, etc. Shielding, on the other hand, is one of the 13 Practices. An application of magic so useful and prominent that Atlantean Mages included it in their codification of their magic classification system. Tome of the Mysteries warns against the hubris of underestimating seemingly trivial Practices just because they don't require the awesome power of an Adept or Master to pull off.

And Shielding spells do explicitly provide blanket immunity to natural or mundane phenomena under the purview of the Arcanum. So far Werefags haven't done a very good job at proving that the kinetic energy they generate is supernatural. At least not at the time that I started typing all of this.

Also
>vampire
>powerful supernatural being
kek

>>54598561
If that's the case all the werewolf needs to do is attack with aggravated damage.

>>54598561

Mind you, Alchemists only protects you from the innate qualities of the material. Alchemists touch still lets you get beaten to death with a bat of frozen acid, even if the acid's nature can't hurt you.

So it's a rather dramatic change to the spell to get to 'Kinetic shield'.