/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>54601700
Please stop. Just stop. Don't continue. Cease at once.

File: fb6.jpg (182KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 1280x720px

>>54601700

SAVE US DAVE

How exactly is thread better than the Onyx Path Forums? The people over seem a lot more interested in having real discussion instead of filling bingo. The Forums have flaws, but this place has a lot more.

Okay, so until we finally (it feels like it has been in development for forever) get Changeling 2e, we won't know how seemings and kiths form now.

Good to know I'm not crazy and it was just 1e vs 2e. Thanks /wodg/.

I was trying to write some changeling fiction, and was getting bummed that the origins of the characters would make less sense if going by the 'new' rules for seeming/kith development.

>>54601759
>>54601786
Fine

It's gone. Happy?

>>54601759
>>54601786
I swear to god

If you don't show me your damn appreciation I will continue this fight.

>>54601856
>>54602007
Thank you. No need for threats.

I've done Mage, WW, and Kindred for WoD.
GM wants to do a Changeling.

I'm cool with this, but Changeling cast fucks with my head.
Is there a simple or easy way?

Shit, it takes 4 times as many steps for a CL to cast as does a Mage.

>>54602154
Running up five walls and the ceiling, clicking your heels three times and spinning round like a asshole to cast shit is gay.

Refuse to play it.

>>54602195
Well shit, ya.
He dislikes the system too. He already has it hard enough not jizzing himself out of anger over standard combat.

I am going to read though it, but I am already suggesting:

>Difficulty
Target's Banality
>Pool
Art + Realm
>Result
Standard

Honestly though, anything would be better than the "oldin' days" he told me about with the boon cards.

>>54601822
The new rules are bad, and I won't be using them.

What happened during your Durance changes you according to what happened to you/what your Keeper did to you. What happens after you make your escape is up to you, including how you deal with what you've been changed into.

Having it be so goddamn heavy-handed a metaphor for abuse is just bad design, in my opinion, and it actively limits the number of stories you can tell and characters you can create just to be oh so clever.

No, sir, I don't like it.

>>54602932
>The new rules are bad, and I won't be using them.
What changed?

>>54602932
It was actually about how you escaped, however since Dave got axed, it's gone back to representing the kind of stuff you experienced in your Durance.

So someone who was subjected to horrifying experiments, parts of their body replaced with "space age" shit by their Alien Keepers, is Wizened.

>>54603045
Oh, that got re-written?

Ok, interest in 2e just rose by about thirty points.

>>54603075
Yeah, I felt the same way when I read that.
Everything posted since Rose took over is the stuff taking the changes into account.

Also there's more flexibility. Not every Gentry might send Huntsmen after their Changeling puppets. They might even forget about them for a decade or two.

>>54603094
Easing way back on the Huntsmen, too? There's another thirty points right there (would've been more if they'd just gotten rid of them or just made them princes of the hobgoblins or something).

>>54603045
Kiths are still decoupled from specific Seemings, right? I liked the idea of that being core.

File: 1458312776852.jpg (51KB, 559x519px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 559x519px

>>54603191
???

>>54603180
That's something that hasn't been confirmed yet.

>>54603231
Just some stale old pasta some moron thinks we'll buy.

>>54601786
What the fuck is up with that gun?

>>54603757
Anime, that's what.

Reminder that in a vs discussion the non mage splat player uses reasonable examples while the magefaggot minmaxes up the wall and makes sure their mage example is specially tailored to kill the other splat.

>>54604566
Mages don't need to minimax to fuck up woofs.
Deal with it.

Even magefagging was better than this slow and painful death.
Considering that Alchemist's Touch didn't grant blanket immunity against aggravated damage, why should kinetic shield work against woofs eating human flesh for essence which actually causes aggravated?

>>54604566

The last discussion cited mostly cited Shielding Practices of the various Arcana which only require two dots and possessed by both starting characters and often by mages outside their Ruling Arcana.

It's actually the exact opposite of min/maxing powergaming.

What it does demonstrate, however, was the crossover effect of DaveB's very intentional 2e game design decision to eradicate what he described as "the speed bumps" in the Arcana and Practices that artificially limited certain abilities and effects for game balance. For example, all types of substances and forces can now be controlled by the Practices in Matter and Forces, respectively, and humans can similarly be affected by Life from Life 1 onward.

In mage vs. mage contests or mages vs. their high level antagonists, this design decision is merely interesting. However, it resulted in a significant power bump to mages vs. other splats, when mages were already strong in comparison. Luckily, DaveB also couldn't care less about crossover, only that Mage's rules followed and were consistent with its internal setting and themes.

I don't think Mage is a good game to play "modern wizards". What other options are available?

>>54606305
Why isn't it my friend,

>>54606314
Because the power level is ridiculously high and little about the magic feels like "real" occult practices. And no, I don't think Ascension did this any better.

>>54606278
if only withstand wasn't such a joke mages all need prime to stand a chance and paradox has no teeth.

>>54606234
Shut the fuck up, asshole. Post something interesting or post nothing at all.

>>54606234
>why should kinetic shield work against woofs eating human flesh for essence which actually causes aggravated?

Because woofs don't magically consume human flesh from afar. They first need to grapple or otherwise physically attack and neutralize or kill their prey before consumption. If they cannot do so because such attacks do kinetic damage, and thus defended against, no flesh will be consumed. It's immaterial that the consumption does aggravated damage (although most versions of Kinetic Shield still provide Armor Against Aggravated damage, and without consideration for other defense like Forces Mage Armor).

>>54606305
The "hedge wizard" abilities in the 2e cod core aren't bad, really. If you wanted a game focused around them, you could reprice some of the merits/abilities to match the other splats and give you a number to start the game with.

>>54606445
Don't feed the asshole, and don't get that shit started again.

>>54606341
>if only withstand wasn't such a joke mages all need prime to stand a chance and paradox has no teeth.

I think the complaints about Withstand are mostly theoretical and overblown. Magic is supposed to be dangerous and mage society exists as a slightly more amicable mutually assured destruction scenario. The mechanics seem to emphasize this setting element.

Where is this kinetic shield spell coming from? I read the 2e core book and haven't found this spell yet?

>>54606488
Stop.

It made the two threads before this so bad they're radioactive.

Please.

File: AlchemistsTouch.png (209KB, 830x585px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 830x585px

>>54606488

Kinetic Shield is creative thaumaturgy unsing Forces Shielding, but it's based almost word for word on Matter 2's Alchemist's Touch, except instead types of forces are substituted for materials.

>>54606496

Relax. Discussion of rules is appropriate for the forum, and we *should* be able to discuss them without hyperbolic, white room combat splat vs. splat nonsense.

>>54606455
I had the impression most of them were more psychic in nature, but I guess it's an option. I could use Second Sign as a base, but the powers were ridiculously weak and difficult to get back in 1e and converting it would already be super tough.

>>54606482
No it just makes a game full of masters boring unless the characters and npcs act retarded i've seen it in application. the st had to cheat ever confrontation to make it have any fucking stakes without resulting in dead pcs every other game. Masters in 2e are better sounding on paper and boring as sin in application. this wasn't the case in 1e unless your st let you abuse ritual casting.

File: Komodo Dragon 1.jpg (63KB, 426x240px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 426x240px

So, DaveB had mentioned that he still supposedly posts here, but does so as an Anon without his tripcode.

I'm curious if he commented on the heated discussions in the last few threads, and if so, if he actually answered any of the disputed points.

>And no, I'm not Dave.

File: Caine.png (148KB, 555x566px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 555x566px

Given that the older the vampire, the less nourishing human blood becomes and how they transition to kindred blood eventually, what the hell did Caine have to feed on to gain sustenance?

>>54606657

Cain was "special," His plot-armor powers rendered him immune to game rules and mechanics.

Anyone ever play in a WoD setting in a PBP forum RPG?

>>54606305
Unknown Armies seems cool, but I haven't played it or read it all the way through

File: 1338020500138.jpg (128KB, 431x1789px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 431x1789px

>>54606657
A snipped creation myth from the Assamite Clanbook Revised, penned by Clayton Oliver, involved Haqim as the trusted head of a city state's army. The king royal family was seduced and transformed by Caine, and although Haqim managed to kill the royals, Caine just killed the city anyway. The story spoke of him creating earthquakes with his hands, then the blood of the city just gouting up into the sky and across to him.

> And then, as the lord of the armies watched in horror, the demon's rage took him and his blood boiled. With a single stamp of his foot, Khayyin shook the ground, and the buildings of En'esh toppled. With a mighty howl, he breathed out a firestorm and scorched the city's fields. He spread his arms wide and drew in breath, and the blood of the people of En'esh flowed into him like a river.

So Caine is so badass he doesn't even need to bite to drain, and if he ever lost his shit an entire village, town or city might show up exsanguinated with no visible signs of trauma.

>>54606488
Mages don't just choose from a list of spells. There are the spell examples, but they can also create their own spells with Creative Thaumaturgy. The anons arguing for a basis on Alchemist's Touch don't seem to get that. It was my understanding that the kinetic shield being argued was a barrier of sorts, not making the Mage's body inherently immune to kinetic energy. Whether or not the shield would block aggravated damage or not would really be up to the ST, because its their job to put their foot down when they feel like original spells are too strong or don't have enough drawbacks. For example, they could rule that the kinetic shield could no-sell mundane or natural attacks of bashing and lethal damage, but that the shield could only block a number of aggravated attacks equal to its potency, no Clash.

File: he-never-died-7.jpg (308KB, 2502x1062px) Image search: [Google]

308KB, 2502x1062px

>>54606854

That's really fucked up, but also fucking amazing.

Speaking of Caine already

>Khayyin

What are some other names, actual names, for him that have been used in the fluff?

File: IMG_7840.png (85KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 250x250px

>>54606887
The Cabbie

>>54606855
Alchemist's touch gives a basis that makes sense given how it and a forces variant. There is no power that makes you completely immune without provoking a clash. You can't just make a power that says absolutely no and at the same time no clash of wits. Also any celerity/acceleration based power would counter a kinetic shield if you use clash of wills rules.

>>54607047
>Alchemist's touch gives a basis that makes sense given how it and a forces variant would be word for word the same except forces instead of matter.

>>54607047
>Alchemist's touch gives a basis that makes sense given how it and a forces variant.
And you can use it if you want, but it's by no means a hard rule, or operates off of a hard rule outlined somewhere else.

>There is no power that makes you completely immune without provoking a clash.
Except Shielding explicitly gives you blanket immunity to mundane or natural phenomena under the purview of the Arcanum. If you feel that this is too powerful, the books outline ways to create drawbacks for original spells. Like having to spend a mana point, or Reach. Not only that, but what I said, making the spell only able to block a number of aggravated attacks equal to its potency, is actually something based off of the rules. Shielding spells block a number of supernatural attacks equal to potency, and cause a Clash. Normal aggravated attacks wouldn't cause a Clash, because they aren't supernatural.

>Also any celerity/acceleration based power would counter a kinetic shield if you use clash of wills rules
They could, potentially. You would have to win the Clash. For vampires its Blood Potency + Discipline dots + bonuses (Duration, Willpower) as outlined in Requiem 2e on p.126. They also have to be aware that powers are clashing to spend Willpower, and the example outlines that they have to sure that powers are clashing, meaning they have to be aware that the Mage is Shielding.

During Clashes, Mages get Gnosis + Arcanum rating + bonuses (Willpower, Duration, Advanced Potency) and are always aware when their spells are clashing, as outlined on 2e p.118. Shielding being a two dot practice means that even Disciples have a free Reach to allocate to either Advanced Potency or Duration, and could spend another to get both. Probably the most likely option over instant casting, as Shielding spells are something put up in preparation while Mage Armor is the go-to reaction, being a reflexive attainment. I have another point, but the post is getting too long.

Not really clear on one point in Demon tD
Can Demons tradr back pieces of cover to the people they bought them from ? To other demons ? To other humans ?
Maybe I missed it but I don't recall anything explicit about that in the core

>>54607354
Now, something that I'm not actually clear on just from reading the books is whether winning the Clash cancels out the Shielding spell entirely, or means that you just knock a potency off of it, because the rules for Clash of Wills in all three books say that "Victory of one power in a clash does not mean the immediate cancellation of all the others, save in cases where only one power can endure". That's from Requiem 2e p.126, Awakening 2e p.118, and Forsaken 2e p. 115. So if you wanted to break a Shielding spell, would you have to win enough Clashes to completely degrade its Potency? If so, the way I outlined it means normal aggravated attacks would be better.

>>54607354
It's not a number of attacks you retard it's damage. Alchemist's touch blocks damage based on potency it cannot block attacks outright. It doesn't matter how the agg damage is done mages don't have a way to separate it. Attacks already degrade the shield. Again,you can't just make an I'm immune to X without a flaw. The current framework has already the system in place and nothing says both Now while being immune to clashes. You can houserule otherwise but we have to use actual powers here as they are the actual basis for spells.

>>54607435
Isn't it more logical that a success in a clash of wills to pass a shielding does exactly that : pass the shield, and use up one of the uses against supernatural attacks
The shield is still up, but you broke through it
On an exceptional success, the shield is completely dispelled
I'd rule it that way

>>54607451
go cry me a fucking river and drown yourself in it.

>>54607489
what a weenie

>>54607451
>It's not a number of attacks you retard it's damage
Yeah, for Alchemist's Touch. Doesn't mean that every Shielding spell you make has to work like that.

>>54607485
That makes sense.

>>54607451
Once again magefags make up, twist or willfully misinterpret rules to make their splat as overpowered as can be.

>>54607435
In clash of wills winning means you win it for that clash. If the opponent kinetic blows and wins it bypasses the shield and does the full brunt of the damage.

>>54607489
learn the fucking rules of the game or don't bother pretending you know.

>>54607505
What rules?

>>54607451
>These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or
mundane phenomena,

literal immunity. go fuck off

>while protecting against a number of supernatural attacks equal to the spell’s Potency

number of attacks

these fuckers cant read

>>54607504
>>54607525

Number of attacks basically means the shielding is trying to loop hole total immunity which means it would be subject to clash of wills. Again the game has rules stop trying to twist them, mages are already powerful without this bullshit.

>>54607525
They seem to think that because Alchemist's Touch says it doesn't effect Aggravated Damage without Reach that all Shielding spells should work like that, despite not being outlined anywhere else in the book except for a spell example. Desperate for any edge they can get, I suppose.

>>54607553
I dont think anything like that, so fuck off.

You dont have to base it on alchemists touch you dense fucks.

You can creative thaum it any way you damn well like within the creative thaum rules. Go read them, everything has already been posted and it all complies with rules as written.

Creative shielding gives blanket immunity, and stops number of supernatural attacks equal to potency is CREATIVE THAUM rules, folk just mention alchemists touch because you retards dont understand creative thaum and need a similar example.

>>54607591
>Creative shielding gives blanket immunity, and stops number of supernatural attacks equal to potency is CREATIVE THAUM rules, folk just mention alchemists touch because you retards dont understand creative thaum and need a similar example.

ITS. ALSO. SUBJECT. TO. CLASH. OF WILLS. IT'S ALSO IN THE FUCKING RULES.

>>54607542
What the fuck?

Did you read what you typed. You are the one trying to twist the rules or come up with utter bullshit. Mages are powerful, get over it.

>>54607542
Who is twisting rules?

2e p.126-127
"Most commonly with the Practice of Shielding (••), a spell
may grant protection from forces under the Arcanum’s purview.
These spells usually provide blanket immunity to natural or
mundane phenomena, while protecting against a number of
supernatural attacks equal to the spell’s Potency. Such attacks
must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target."

Literally what it says. So if you win the Clash, your power works and a Potency is knocked off, but the spell is still up until it loses all Potency. And nowhere does it say that supernatural attacks bypass Shielding spells if they do aggravated damage. Try reading. Alchemist's Touch doesn't set the standard for all Shielding spells. It can be your standard, but it doesn't have to be everybody's.

>>54607608
IF SAID SUPERNATURAL POWER CONFLICTS WITH SAID SHIELDING.

LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASH OF WILLS EVER.

Omg, retards. you dont just get a clash of wills for every supernatural attack you fucking mongoloid it has to actually be a conflicting effect

>>54607608
Clash's still only occur when their is a competing actual power to go against. Not every attack from a supernatural character.

>>54607659
What these fuckers not understand how clashes work.

>>54607608
Yes, supernatural attacks invoke a Clash. Who said they didn't?

>>54607630
Yes, I did. it's attempting to use wording in a way to make it's point. if you are immune to everything for x number of attacks you are immune to everything. Stop trying to pretend that you can be both immune to everything and not provoke a clash of wills. If I sound repetitive it's because you're to stupid to understand how this works.

>>54607686
What are you talking about?

>>54607686
>>54607676
Being supernatural does not mean your mundane attacks provoke clash of wills.

>>54607686
You are immune to everything that doesnt provoke a clash of wills, which is a power that is in conflict with the shielding spell.

how fucking hard is this to understand?

>>54607676
this idiot.

>>54606855
For example, they could rule that the kinetic shield could no-sell mundane or natural attacks of bashing and lethal damage, but that the shield could only block a number of aggravated attacks equal to its potency, no Clash

>>54607697
Well, a punch isn't made supernatural because it's a vampire doing the punching. Obviously the mechanics intended it to be a power vs power situation, because it's always X supernatural strength stat plus specific power rating vs same.

>>54607709
>For example, they could rule that the kinetic shield could no-sell mundane or natural attacks of bashing and lethal damage, but that the shield could only block a number of aggravated attacks equal to its potency, no Clash
This doesn't break or twist any rules at all. Shielding spells provide blanket immunity to natural and mundane things. That's explicit.

>>54607698
Pretty hard, apparently.

>>54607746
Yes but other supernaturals cannot do agg without powers or acceleration like offensive skills. There are very few natural sources of agg in the game.

>>54607809
Well, natural aggravated damage is what I meant. Obviously supernatural powers cause a Clash.

>>54606305
hunter the vigil has witch finders witch gives you the ability to play a magically gifted hunter. I have generally used their rules to create mages that arn't OP gods.

>>54607380
I believe so, yes

>>54608395
I mostly remember it being Mage light, but it's worth a shot.

>>54603106
What, Huntsmen were an interesting antagonist. It seemed obvious to me they didn't always have to be used. They were a sort of ultimate fight for changelings, what is so bad about that?

>>54606341
They should need prime, it's the core of magic itself.

>>54606510
It seems a real stretch to go from that to "all kinetic damage"

>>54607591
>You dont have to base it on alchemists touch you dense fucks.

You don't have to, but why the heck wouldn't you.

You can fashion a kinetic shield spell by doing virtually nothing more mechanically than than changing the words "material" and "substance" to "force."

It appears the only reason offered not to do so is because such a kinetic shield is purportedly too powerful or useful a spell at two dots, particularly in crossover. These crossover / game balance justifications go directly against the express design philosophy of the Practices and Arcana in Mage 2e which explicitly rejects artificial limiters for "balance."

The goal should not be to make mages weaker to protect splats outside the Mage gameline, but rather come up with more creative means to combat mages, if that really is a priority in your own game.

Simply, a combatant who attempts brute force attacks against a mage who specializes in control of the fundamental energies of the universe deserves not only to lose, but to lose badly. There's no special snowflake werewolf, vampire or changeling exception to Forces (or other Arcana), and there is no doubt at all that's what was intended in Mage.

It would be great if Dave finally published the Mage FAQ and put these tiresome debates to bed once and for all. At least OPP *should* have to deal with them in the upcoming Crossover Chronicles, if that too ever sees the light of day.

File: ChanglingPlotPoints.jpg (2MB, 1000x1644px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1000x1644px

>Changeling?????????

>>54607697
>Being supernatural does not mean your mundane attacks provoke clash of wills.

No matter how many times you might explain this, it will not penetrate.

>>54608846
>They should need prime, it's the core of magic itself.

There's almost never a need for conjunctive Arcana outside of some transformations. None of the designers want to go back to anything close to the mess that was Ascension's creative thaumaturgy system.

>>54607485
>On an exceptional success, the shield is completely dispelled
Sure houserule it any way you want, but I'm strongly against quoted part, exceptional successes in CoW are absolutely unsystematic.

>>54608846
it still sucks that at adept and master, opponents don't stand a chance if they don't have the arcana or break the rules. paradox isn't a deterrent with how shitty it is.

If DaveB wanted something like the perfect kinetic energy barrier these faggots are describing, he'd have included it in the book. Specifically. That it's not there pretty much proves beyond any reasonable doubt that their "creative thaumatology" is just powergaming nonsense that any reasonable GM would disallow in the blink of an eye.

>>54608864
>It seems a real stretch to go from that to "all kinetic damage"

Why, other than the spell is allegedly "too powerful" or a desire for more "balance?"

Forces already breaks down types / categories of forces time and again, e.g., kinetic, heat and fire, electric, gravity, light, sound, radiation, etc.

That paste bin says Page Removed?

>>54609056
>If DaveB wanted something like the perfect kinetic energy barrier these faggots are describing, he'd have included it in the book. Specifically. That it's not there pretty much proves beyond any reasonable doubt that their "creative thaumatology" is just powergaming nonsense that any reasonable GM would disallow in the blink of an eye.

What? Are you now the Oracle of Dave?

Feel free to pose actual quotes from Dave, just like others have repeatedly done on this and many other questions, that even remotely supports your ridiculous conclusion that if a sample spell isn't included it implies it's impossible.

Just because you consider something "powergaming nonsense" doesn't mean it's not entirely consistent and plausible with established written rules, no less in circumstances such as Mage 2e where part of the design philosophy was to reject "game balance" and artificial Arcana and Practice limiters, consequences be damned.

http://theonyxpath.com/the-creative-arts-mage-the-awakening/

>>54609149
no? Ur probably doing it wrong.

>>54609056
If DaveB didn't want Creative Thaumaturgy he wouldn't have included it in the book.

>There's an Arthurian Britain chapter in Dark Eras 2

If Mage is involved that's gonna mean weird things, considering Merlin and his whole Ascension deal.

>>54606887
Cagn (CAINE WAS KANGZ AN SHIET) and Canarl (who got superpowers after Odin met him on a battlefield)

>>54607047
>any celerity/acceleration based power would counter a kinetic shield if you use clash of wills rules.

If the shield is already up? No.
Contingencies will always trump speed, sorry.

>>54611092
in 2e attack always beats defense.

>>54611210
Not even remotely what I'm referring to buddy.

>>54611210
Celerity has to deal with the shield that was already prepped before he can attack the Mage. If it's a kinetic shield? Vampire is shit out of luck. That's total fucking immunity to kinetic attacks.

By the time he can react again, it will have been far too late.

>>54611260
As it's a supernatural that directly contests it power they clash.

>>54611281
In this case it wouldn't invoke a clash.

If the Mage was using Acceleration, it definitely would.

File: 1500194210528.jpg (62KB, 680x680px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 680x680px

Fucking mage "players" think a 2 dot spell is fine even though it allows a mage to survive being shot at with a gun that fires planets lol kinetic immunity.

>>54611301
No. That doesn't work. A vampires powers still provoke the same clash a mages powers do.

>>54611353
Celerity isn't conflicting with the kinetic shield. It doesn't invoke a Clash. Kinetic energy is kinetic energy. It's like saying you need to Clash every time a bullet hits you.

Acceleration and Celerity are both effectively the same thing, it conflicts with one another. It Clashes.

Does kinetic shield block all damage, yes or no?

>>54611401
Doesn't matter how the power works only that the effects are both supernatural in nature which celerity is and opposing which they are and so clash.

>>54611401
A bullet isn't a supernatural power. Kinetic Shield vs, say, Vigor should clash, since it's "I punch you really hard" vs. "You can't punch me really hard"

>>54611401
You can't reason with them. They think everything minimally supernatural demands a clash. It's not how the game works.

>>54611436
That's not how CoW works.

>>54611442
"punch you really hard" causes kinetic energy, which isn't inherently supernatural.

So no

>>54611436
>>54611442
If Celerity explicitly said "breaks through all defenses", then it would cause a Clash with the shield.

But it doesn't, so it doesn't get a clash. It's nothing but a kinetic attack with super speed.

>>54611500
Vampire disciplines are supernatural using them counts as a supernatural ability.

>>54611529
That doesn't mean they all garner a Clash, friend. It has to conflict with another power, whether similar or conflicting with how said power(s) works.

A Clash of Wills is only required where there are two discrete Supernatural powers which want to modify the same thing.

The Clash exists because it is a quick and easy way of determining which power comes up on top when an activation roll, or damage could not be quantified.

Shooting someone with a Magic Bullet, which does X damage.
Into their shield which stops X-1 damage, is simple.
It just does 1 damage.

Stop getting mad that Mages can generate shields against kinetic force, and just don't use them in your games. Or get smart and either tool up on Agg, or find some other way to combat them.
You retarded splatfight half-brained chimp.

>>54611543
So a 2 dot viger/celerity devotion that breaks shields is all that's needed then.

Mage was a mistake. The other games might have been mistakes too, but both Mages were the biggest.

>>54611646
i agree dave.

>"Can Forces 2 conjure a shield capable of blocking all kinetic attacks, effectively rendering you immune to this specific Force?"
Yes

>"Will a supernatural attack start of Clash of Wills?"
Only if both abilities conflict with how they both function

>"What about Celerity?"
Celerity enables the Kindred to attack first, which does not conflict with the supposed kinetic shield. No Clash.

>"What about Celerity facing off against Acceleration?"
Both enable the user to act first. This would start a Clash

>"But I thought all supernatural attacks start Clashes?"
No, only by undermining how its opposing ability functions will it garner a Clash

>"But it's still a supernatural attack"
No, as kinetic energy isn't inherently supernatural. It's just kinetic energy.

>>54611604
That would definitely start a Clash. Not that Vampires would win it, considering the duration boosts Mages will have.

But you have it right.

So what's a good gun for someone with super strength? Preferably automatic.

>>54611729
A M60.

>>54611744
Okay, let me rephrase.

What's a good gun for someone with strength to kill someone with a lot of tankiness.

How does targeting a vampire's heart with wood work in CofD?

Oh wow, you guys are still at it.

>>54611803
braindead werefags work wonders, don't they?

>>54611803
I'm more annoyed that some idiot thought Celerity could truck prepped shields.

Anons are getting desperate at this point to combat the resident Magefags.

>>54611762
Automatic shotgun loading Dragon-breath rounds
Anti-materiel sawn-off rifle with silver-core rounds
40mm automatic grenade launcher

>>54611803
Isn't it amazing how a single splinter of Mage can utterly annihilate the egos of non-Mage players?

>>54611864
If Celerity can't "truck" Mage Armor, it definitely won't "truck" Shielding.

It's basically Mage Armor but better.
Only you have to set it up first, while Mage Armor is Reflexive.

ENOUGH

The werefags were dumbasses, we get it. It's over.

File: bliss.png (14KB, 166x166px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 166x166px

>>54612048
I would really love to let this go, but I just can't.

I keep seeing people making claims that the Magefags are the absolute worst filth on here, but then I see the Werefags sperging out in front of my own eyes. Vampfags even.

You people seem to be using the Magefags to cover up your own evident faults, and it's fucking hilarious. Priceless. An understatement actually.

You sound religious at this point. It's almost gospel.
>Magefags are Satan.
>Ignorance is God.

>>54612048
thread is pretty much dead thank god it worked. i knew an autistic mage fight would cause people to leave.

>>54612148
>Werefags are servants of the Lie

>>54611711
>No, as kinetic energy isn't inherently supernatural. It's just kinetic energy.
By this logic any attack that doesn't come directly from a power, but is rather influenced or affected by one, wouldn't cause a Clash. Say you have a Forces shield against electricity, and another Forces Mage makes a bolt of electricity leap out at you from a light socket. It's a supernatural attack, which explicitly causes a Clash with the shield. 2e p.127. But because the electricity itself wasn't supernatural, it doesn't matter? The shield just 'nopes' it? I know Shielding offers immunity against natural or mundane things under the purview, but there's a point where things become supernatural. Electricity compelled to act from a spell. Vampires moving at insane speeds with super powers (which actually would make the kinetic energy in their body supernatural). Not werewolves making natural slashes with claws.

>>54611784
>When a wooden stake penetrates the Kindred heart, the
>vampire immediately enters torpor. Unlike normal torpor,
>he awakens immediately upon the stake’s removal, but not
>before. To target the heart, make an attack roll with a –3 die
>penalty after factoring Defense. If the attack causes five points
>of damage, it penetrates the heart.

>>54612411
That lightning is supernatural, not mundane. Not unless you're literally redirecting natural lightning to your desired target.

Not a good comparison. The kinetic blow of a vampire's fists or a werewolf's claws just aren't supernatural. It's an effective aftershock of the impact. This is why it doesn't get a Clash.

>>54612411
The issue here is that CoW only works with powers conflicting with their respective functions.

Celerity does not conflict with a kinetic shield/barrier/whatever. It just doesn't.
Not unless it's a Devotion that's specifically supposed to bypass defenses.

>>54612420
Thanks

>>54611968
What's really pathetic is how hard you cling to your white room supremacy
Seriously, drop it, you're embarassing yourself

>>54612493
Celerity and vigor are supernatural in nature. Either it doesn't wok or does. There's no this works except with these supernatural powers.

>>54612581
They're only clinging to it because of dumb fucks like you, apparently.

>>54612581
Nah this topic needs to continue until no one wants to come here.

Has it really come down to you idiots arguing that -everything- starts a Clash of Wills?

Are you THAT fucking desperate in your attempts to one up the Magefags?

>>54612613
Just got back here after a few threads of absence, specifically cause of that bullshit
You are behaving like children
Get a grip ffs
>>54612626
Ok bub

>>54612672
I just don't like the idea of mages making themselves immune to my attacks it makes balance shit

>>54612730
The games aren't supposed to be balanced! They are different games that happen to exist in the same universe!

You might as well complain that Dragonblooded aren't equal to Solars.

>>54612493
Natural electricity compelled by a spell is a supernatural attack. It's a fucking Fraying spell. It would cause a clash against an electric shielding spell. See 2e p.127. "defends against a number of supernatural attacks equal to the spell's potency. Such attacks must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target." Likewise, using Celerity or Vigor makes the physical, kinetic blows supernatural attacks, because they're attacking with supernatural force provided by a supernatural power. A werewolf doing a regular swing wouldn't count, as there is no supernatural power involved.

>>54612852
Unless the wolf was using a gift like fire claws or silver claws or some shit.

>>54612730
Good thing intersplat balance isn't a priority.

>>54612852
>A werewolf doing a regular swing wouldn't count, as there is no supernatural power involved.

Sorry, nope. Werewolf claws and jaws are magical. It starts a Clash. Celerity only makes you act first, so it doesn't start shit. Werewolves on the other hand innately WILL start a Clash. it doesn't matter what they do. It starts it.

>>54612800
Then why do you keep arguing ?
What is the point, apart shitting up this general ?
>b-but the vampfags
>b-but the woofs
No. Shut up.
You wanna have a good general ? You be the better person and you don't take part in the shit flinging. Otherwise you're just another shitposter baiting for (You)s.
You already have the strongest splat, which seems to be the single most important thing to you, what more do you need ? The constant validation of all and any anon telling you you're the best ?
Go play in traffic, attention whore.

Celerity wouldn't start a Clash. It only makes you act first. In this case the shield intercepts them.

Werewolf claws and jaws won't start a Clash either.

You people are fucking retarded.

Is there a single NWoD splat that is more powerful than their WoD counterpart?

>>54612927
Demon maybe ?
Don't know anything about the Fallen though, I might be wrong

>>54612927
Nope
MVamp>>>>CVamp
AWolf>>FWolf
AcM>AwM
Not sure about the others

>>54612730
I play hunter only. I don't want to even hear a complaint about balance with the amount of shit my splat deals with. The only satisfaction I've had in my last session was learning a certain bloodsucker the crew went up against could sense things around him while waiting for nightfall and his chance to awaken, so I setup a bunch of speakers to blast Tom Jones' "What's New Pussycat" for five hours at max volume. He rose from his slumber screaming. Then we set him on fire. Feels good, man.

Aside from him nearly killing me even when he burst into flames.

>>54612903
>Werewolf claws and jaws are magical
Do you have a source for this?

>Celerity only makes you act first, so it doesn't start shit.
Celerity, a supernatural power, makes normal attacks supernatural attacks. Explicitly causes a Clash of Wills with a Shielding spell.

File: 1500519660542.jpg (47KB, 493x750px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 493x750px

>>54613024
Speaking of hunter is there anyway to be pic related powered by God?

File: p.143.png (76KB, 358x256px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 358x256px

>>54612493
>Not unless you're literally redirecting natural lightning to your desired target.

>>54612927
CofD Demon wrecks face compared to their WoD counterparts.

Which is why they have to keep their powers on the down-low, because otherwise "god" sends an armada of hunter-killer Angels after them.

>>54613063
>Explicitly causes a Clash of Wills with a Shielding spell

Citation?

>>54613161
23 p.127. "defends against a number of supernatural attacks equal to the spell's potency. Such attacks must win a Clash of Wills to affect the target."

Unless you want to argue that attacks made directly with Celerity aren't supernatural somehow, despite being directly done with the active application of a supernatural power.

>>54613234
I, personally, wouldn't rule a Celerity punch as a supernatural attack. Not unless the vampire is literally magically transmuting his fist into something evidently unnatural in application.

If I did, everyone would be demanding I allow a CoW for anything conceivably possible within the bounds of motion and physics.

>>54613065
Actually yes. The Mallus Malfcrum (shit spelling alert) are a group of Hunters that have Jesus powers, including the ability to lower the power of undead and their physical strength while near you, blessing holy water and other objects to harm vampires, the ability to revive another mortal at the cost of a dot of morality, armor that stacks on top of your normal armor when you hit one hp (meaning you can sometimes won against stronger splats by virtue of having something stupid like nine armor for a scene) and, my favorite for flavor, Holy Cross lite, a huge aura of light that drains willpower from undead while in it and prompts a fear frenzy. On exceptional success it even does lethal damage every turn.

I think those Hunters are acidly cooler then any other splat, honestly, so many cool benedictions, and they actually can give some vampires a run for their money even one versus one if you play smart

>>54612148
>I see the Werefags sperging out in front of my own eyes. Vampfags even.

Where? The calm question about other names for Caine?

You're in denial. I get that you're obsessed about Mage because you want to suck Sir Ian McKellen's cock, but here's some news for you - you don't have to spam the Mage shit, he'd probably fuck you if you were attractive and witty enough..... oh.

You guys are forgetting something

Only Ban mixed with other Arcana offers absolute immunity corresponding to its selected purview(s).

You can't Clash of Wills that one. Not unless you have a specific spacial move.

>>54612927
Changlings have less weaknesses now, so there's that.

File: download-22.jpg (18KB, 275x183px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 275x183px

>>54613349
Sounds great!

>>54613365
>he hasn't seen the other thread

File: 635751951012795556.jpg (122KB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 1600x1200px

>mfw a fucking beast calls my Mage "kin".

>>54613417
Kinetic Shielding would offer nigh-immunity up to Aggravated, reduced by Potency.
Physical attacks aren't going to be supernatural more often than not, whether it be the claws/jaws of a Werewolf or the speed-blitzing Celerity enhanced fists of a Vampire.

Ban is something else entirely. It completely negates anything from entering or exiting.
It's as 'absolute' as you say it is. The perfect defense.

If a wizard mixed Ban with Forces, no amount of Werewolves or Vampires could penetrate it, with no chance of producing a Clash of Wills.

Space 3 / Forces 2 is all it takes to effectively render raging Werewolves useless, and seriously annoy Vampires with a Flash complex.

So wait, the question now is whether or not the physical attacks of vampires or werewolves are *supernatural* in nature?

I don't see how they are

>>54613063
>>Werewolf claws and jaws are magical
>Do you have a source for this?

DO you mean apart from the fact that they've been explicitly described as such and granted Aggravated Damage to reflect that fact since the 1st Ed of Werewolf the Apocalypse?

Have you tried reading the core rulebook?

Can we please move onto something else?

The new Dark Eras, maybe?

>>54613438
No, "he" hasn't, nor do I want to. Most of these threads are complete cancer, and lead me to wishing most of you would die screaming, choking on your own feces. I was referring to this thread, and so should you.

>>54613666
We aren't fucking arguing Apocalypse you retarded furry piece of shit

>>54613691
I have a question, is Dark Eras a half-hearted attempt to cash in on the same popularity that Dark Ages enjoyed, but without any commitment to producing real products? 20 pages on the historic ambiance of Pre-Revolutionary France for exactly 2 splats is great, and all, but a decently written sourcebook would be preferable.

>>54613708
So you haven't read the sourcebook, and now you're butt-devastated that someone suggested it?

Good to know. Your tears are delicious, by the way - I'll use them to lubricate my massive erection that I get from seeing your simpering pain.

>>54613691
Those won't even be out for like 2 years. change 2e is pretty close for shitting on though. Probably only another year.

File: pic535359_md.jpg (141KB, 500x436px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 500x436px

I am looking for a rule conversion book (either pro or amateur) for vampire the masquerade. I hate storyteller rules and especially how it handles combats.

Where can I find such thing ?

These threads have been ruined. Thanks a lot werefaggots.

>>54613972
Why? Because your precious kinetic shields aren't immune to being Clashed? Fuck off to hell, asshat trashbag.

>>54614018
Nobody ever said they were 'immune' to triggering a clash, fucking moron.

I'm sorry your vampires and werewolves can't get a clash by using their fucking limbs, because that's not how it works.

>>54613972
It takes two to argue, faggot.

Just change the fucking subject instead of crying more like a bitch nigga.

>>54613961
I'm sorry this is mage the awakening general you should ask anywhere else but here.

The fact that you guys are arguing over a SINGLE little thing about Mage just cements how overpowered it is as a gameline.

>>54614054
I am sorry that your mage can't survive being hit by a fucking comet because of lol immunity to kinetic energy

>>54613065
The True Faith Merit, Theurgy powers from the Inquisition book, implied to be everything in Hunter the Reckoning are all empowered by God or some of his Messengers.

I'm envious of those random Anons that speak of stumbling across a huge stockpile of RPG manuals at a yard sale or thrift store - that literally never happens to me.

How many others here still use printed books? How many have moved on to have e-book versions stored on a reader? Show of cocks.

>>54613961
Rule conversion to what? There is a Vampire Translation Guide to use OWoD stuff with NWoD rules. There's an official GURPS Vampire the Masquerade. I'm working on a Cortex Classic conversion. There are a number of FATE (vomit) conversions.

>>54614122
There's a lot of possible explainations given in the core rulebook. Everything from God to Aliens to The Man are suggested, but at that point it was up to the ST.

THen they fucked it all up by saying the Messengers were the Scarlet Queen and Ebony Dragon. They did this because they wanted to tie WOD to Exalted, I believe, even though it made absolutely no sense.

>>54614115
That's exactly why it only goes up to Aggravated(Potency) dumbshit

It's almost like Awakening is actually mechanically coherent.

>>54614171
I was never the biggest Hunter fan, so I never read beyond the core. I do know they did the whole 'reference Exalted as a previous Age of the WoD' in a couple of Mage supplements, then it was quickly dropped.

I can rarely tell what you guys are arguing about anymore. You constantly change topics, back and forth, all the fucking time.

>>54614204
Really? Which ones? I find the whole incident fascinating, really. I wish there was a "behind the scenes" tell all book describing the real dirt and stupidity going on at WW.

>>54614189
Shut up, you worthless whore cunt. No-one fucking cares except you and the motherless whore you're arguing with (assuming you aren't samefagging and arguing with yourself out of boredom).

>>54614204
I wonder where else they did it? Wraith was dead by that stage, and Changeling was all but abandoned, so if there's any more of that it'd most likely be in Werewolf or Vampire. Unless there was something in Demon I just haven't found yet, of course.

>>54614265
To sum is up

>Mages can make themselves immune to kinetic attacks up Aggravated, reduced by Potency.
>Vampire/Werewolf players are arguing that their innate unnatural physiologies grants them an automatic Clash against Shielding spells.
>Vampire anons claiming that Celerity will somehow trigger a Clash with Shielding spells.
>Werewolf anons claiming that their 'mystical' claws/jaws will somehow trigger a Clash with Shielding spells.

It boils down to butthurt non-Mages and screeching Mage players.

>>54606854
Metal af.

>>54608985
>my fucking sides

>>54614204
>>54614406
I only know that they did it in Mage, though KotE already had references to a cycle of Ages, so it might've been in there as well.

I know they referenced it in the deluxe edition of Laws of the Ascension; the introductory story talks about it. I want to say they referenced it in one of the last pre-Ascension EotW books. Let me find a PDF of it and I'll snip the story for you.

>>54614450
>To sum is up
>
>A few trolls are arguing the usual bullshit about Mages
>a few thinskinned inbreds won't let it drop
>stupid cunts like me think this is "conversation"
>
>it boils down to people whose mothers should have been sterilised

ftfy

>>54614450
So the magefags are correct but have proven themselves autistic and the werefags/vampfags are wrong but genuinely trolled the magefags?

????

>>54614510
Aha! Here's all of the info.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/3frmj5/whispers_from_the_exalted_ones_anyone_have_a_copy/

>>54614568
How does one 'troll' by being wrong unintentionally?

I fail to see what the werefags and vampfags were wrong about

Do not respond

>>54614568
see
>>54614526

>>54614608
They apparently think they can Clash literally anything because they're inherently supernatural.

>>54607047
>Also any celerity/acceleration based power would counter a kinetic shield if you use clash of wills rules.

Wrong. It's because of idiots like you that these threads get so fucking derailed.

>>54614658
>>54614683
Shut up, fuck off, you stupid boring cunts.

Has anyone noticed how much Rich Thomas doesn't give a fuck? It's like now he's got the rights to all the clan and tribe symbols, he can just kick back and watch the company collapse.

>>54614793
Ehh? Rights to all the clan and tribe symbols? Oh, you're talking for the shirts?

>>54614510
Found the Laws of Ascension quote:

>http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/DariusSolluman/FallenSidereal

>>54614834
Yeah, I posted that upthread, it's part of the reddit link I posted. The Reddit link also talks about where the other mentions of Exalted are, as well as shows some 1E Exalted stuff that was marketed as pre-WoD.

>>54614824
No, print and anything. Apparently he used to be their go-to guy for graphic design. He did the all the clan, tribe and sphere symbols from the big three - I vaguely remember reading about him coming up with the Apocalypse pictograms after spending an afternoon with permanent markers taped to his fingers, scraping them across empty cardboard boxes.

End result? He can milk royalties indefinitely. This is why he doesn't give a fuck about quality control, his attitude to us is "send more money, whores".

>>54614857
The smoking gun from the reddit link;
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_A8yY_iyYk

>>54614857
I forgot how shitty the Exalted symbols are. It's like using Emojis for character classes.

>>54614875

He doesn't own them. White Wolf does, and I'd be highly surprised if there's any royalties involved. Royalties aren't a thing in the tabletop industry, unless you're the lucky few who wrote for GURPS books in pre-Munchkin SJG times.

>>54615025
How else do you explain the fact that he just does not give a fuck?

>>54615050
Because he makes hundreds of thousands off of Kickstarters that he probably spends a few thousand on?

This is technically on topic for this thread...

https://soundgasm.net/u/MollyMolotov666/Malkavian-Love-Story-F4M-Vampire-Forced-Yandere-Male-Victim-Music

>>54615077
fuck off

go away

i'd rather the magefags talk shit again than this crap

>>54615070
People don't realise how much Kickstarter themselves take a cut from the fundraising. A stretch goal for an extra $10,000 is going to lose a few thousand dollars to their Kickstarter hosts - this is why so many projects have failed to deliver on stretch goals.

Still, I can't help but wonder if we've hit peak Kickstarter. Dark Eras 2 is lagging badly...

Have things calmed down a bit?

>>54615097
Maybe you should contribute what you want to see instead of bitching and moaning like a stupid whore about what you don't? If I wanted that kind of shit, I wouldn't have gotten a divorce.

>>54615105
>>54615105
People wised up, and most of us are tired of waiting for 2+ year overdue CORE BOOKS rather than this shit.

>>54615120
Doubtful. The splatfags are sitting in their holes waiting for the perfect moment to strike.

>>54615105
True, but WW pays the bare minimum of .03 a word. And their contracts apparently say they don't have to pay until the book is done and released, if David Hill is to be believed. Where the fuck does all the REST of the kickstarter money go?

>vampire's celerity triggers a clash of wills with mage's kinetic shield

I'm still waiting for a coherent and proper answer(s) as to why this would happen. I have yet to receive any.

>>54615156
>True, but WW pays the bare minimum of .03 a word. And their contracts apparently say they don't have to pay until the book is done and released, if David Hill is to be believed. Where the fuck does all the REST of the kickstarter money go?

Licensing fees to nuWW.

Salaries of full-time employees like Rose and Mike (and ?)..

Kickstarter's cut.

Costs of promotional materials and necessary travel and expenses for conventions.

>>54615174
You won't get any

>>54615050

No one makes any good money in this industry. No one actually sells or writes for RPGs with an intention to make a deep profit, especially not games like these that have, quite frankly, long outlived their relevance and popularity in any mainstream money making circle.

In the grand history of RPGs, OPP and Rich Thomas aren't all that different from the rest of the industry. A few major exceptions aside, it's plagued with slow outputs, questionable quality controls and business decisions. Not even Kickstarter was able to change that.

The only winning move for a hobby like this is not to play, or soley buy material from one person companies, which are usually faster if nothing else.

>>54615140

It's clear that the splatbook treadmill gas become the Kickstarter treadmill. As long as they expect diminishing returns, though, it'll be fine.

>>54615156

That's only for developers. Writers have two pay periods: after final draft and on publication. Artists have a similar setup, I believe.

As for the rest: licensing fees, the cost of traditional print publishing (that's why the price per physical book is so high), paying full-time staff, GenCon and other conventions and having print runs for those, providing physical comps (not the case anymore, it would seem, but this used to be one), corporate taxes and other business upkeep.

The problem with OPP isn't greed, necessarily, it's that a tiny company trying to replicate the output of a major RPG company in the 90s and support all its properties simultaneously. It's feasible due to the brand name, but that's about it. Even that might not last, case in point Dark Eras 2. That Kickstarter isn't even doing all that bad compared to most RPG KSes but people expect White Wolf numbers and those will never, ever come again.

Plus there's one very clear fact that cannot be denied. These setting books are not things which fans are clamoring for. They are things that the writers want. That's it. They're welfare for the few writers left loyal to OPP.

Fans don't need them at all. WoD has always traditionally been played for the most part in the modern day, and in very homebrew settings built around the stories told by the Storyteller and Players. That's actually been one of the core tenets of the storyteller system as opposed to the traditional adventure module based D&D stuff it innovated over back when it started in the 90's. The stories and world were ours, not something drawn out in excruciating detail for us - they gave us hints of stuff, and plot hooks, a lot of plot hooks, but stuff like these setting books are if anything anathema to the style of play that makes the White Wolf system shine.

We're waiting, and growing increasingly impatient for, the 2e and 20th anniversary core books for lines that are overdue and well deserve them. Wraith, Changeling, Geist etc. We're waiting for supplement books for lines like Mage, Werewolf, Vampire, to flesh out the mechanics, and player options for their characters (and storyteller options for NPCs). Waiting and waiting. But OPP is myopically focused on this ridiculous Dark Eras garbage. Which adds nothing for most players, and expands the lines in no quality way. It only seems to fuel the annoying obsessions of the shitstain class of OPP forum cunt who gets off on compiling notebooks of headcanon about irrelevant tidbits of flavor text he catches in one of the actual core books. The whole Mages of the Caribbean debacle was just exemplary of that.

So yeah, I sure as hell hope Dark Eras 2 fails and fails hard. The Dark Eras books are word count heavy doorstops, not worthwhile material for the system.

File: Voldemort-spell-avada-kedavra-harry-potter-14771461-500-335.jpg (64KB, 500x335px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 500x335px

Can a mage protect herself from the killing curse?

>>54615379
Death 2

>>54615174
>I'm still waiting for a coherent and proper answer(s) as to why this would happen. I have yet to receive any.

It's more like if it doesn't cause a CoW, then it's too "overpowered," and not "balanced" or "fair," and worse, there preferred splat would no longer be as "special."

I'm more amused why anyone would think it's a good idea to engage in direct physical confrontation with Mage who specializes in control of the fundamental energies of the universe. When mages are already intentionally designed as top tier power players, with their own antagonists and setting elements to match such power, the thought of then fighting them under conditions that play to their strength instead of weaknesses is just so absurd.

Even werewolves know the dangers of screwing with the Awakened and have far more options than simple hack and slash against a friggin' wizard.
>See The Pack excerpt

If Kinetic Shield causes this much consternation, what happens when that same mage starts using gravity control powers against virtually everyone who can't fly, no less if its an area of effect which virtually guarantees no resistance at all. I assume the various Anons will simply claim their characters are immune from being sent into orbit because hurr durr their "magical," you just *can't* do that to leeches and woofs, and that DaveB guy is an asshole...

>>54615412
>Mage who specializes in control of the fundamental energies of the universe.
You use this fucking phrase one more time kid and I will come to your house and shit down your throat!

>>54615174
weren't you the guy who was "still waiting for proof that werewolves, vampires and changelings were supernatural" last night? Give it a fucking rest, you're a fucking joke.

>>54614167

I'm pretty much down to play anything else but GURPS

Idea for a silly Beast NPC: the owner of a traveling Circus which has supernaturals and magical mortals as performers. She is like their adoptive mother, and Feeds mainly through Family Dinner when the performers put on their scary shows. What few people know is that the performers of this Circus are also mystery investigators, crime fighters and charity workers, with their adoptive mother as the leader and her Lair as the HQ. They seem to attract the attention of the supernatural wherever they go, and life for the locals is never quite the same once they set up shop.

File: 21595-1-1344005167.jpg (1MB, 1680x1050px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1680x1050px

>>54615410
No
>>54615379
It isn't possible. The killing curse is specifically and uneqivocially stated to be uncounterable

>>54615379
>>54615410

Prime 2, or Life 2, or Fate 2, ...

Shielding is a VERY handy Practice, and along with Mage Armor, certainly makes mages not nearly as "squishy" as some of their adversaries have previously believed to their great regret. Add in the fact that at 4 dots in most Arcana mages can even inflict aggravated damage at sensory range to multiple targets or an complete area, and it inevitably leads one to the conclusion that any character should seriously reconsider their life choices before starting hostilities with the Wise.

File: Werewolf Pack Mage Fate Worse Death.png (27KB, 423x289px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 423x289px

>>54615412

>Dammit

>Pack excerpt

>>54615412
>Kinetic Shield causes this much consternation, what happens when that same mage starts using...

Likely the storyteller of the crossover will find other reasonable means of compromise to bring the mage's poor splat balance in line. Stuff involving rationals like the supernatural nature of the other splat creatures themselves.

>>54615140
Oh yeah, there is that whole "20th anniversary Wraith, due out in time for the 25th, possibly 30th anniversary of Wraith" thing...

But there are also people that paid through the nose for something that absolutely fucking sucks. Case in point, this thread has a regular poster that shelled out nearly $300 USD for a Deluxe Edition of Mage 20th, complete with it's omissions, errors, fuckups and revisionist bullshit; the only spin the poor bastard could put on it was that he was getting sent a free copy of the Mage Cookbook.

That statement is over 12 months old. The Cookbook has not yet been released.

Has anyone contacted OPP / WW to complain about the total lack of quality, let alone quality control, in books like Mage 20th? Or are we all too polite to tell the Emperor that he's naked and smeared in shit?

>>54615485
Except Mage doesn't run off of Harry Potter magic.

>>54615364
>cost of traditional print publishing

Except the entire cost of a PoD book is footed by the customer, not OPP. They don't preprint a pallet of books, the books are printed as they are ordered.

Licensing fees I get, but man, if the majority of that money goes to the licensing fee, wow.

>>54615370
And yup, that succinctly details what I feel about it too.

>>54615473
http://ralp.net/dungeons/Vampire%20the%20Requiem%20-%20Vampire%20Translation%20Guide.pdf has the translation guide. I had planned on posting my Cortex Classic conversion here once it's done (it's about a quarter of the way done).

>>54615578
That poster shelled out $375 according to them. As far as contacting OPP about it, I'm sure they have. But just like anyone who questions OPP getting banned from their forums, so to those things probably got ignored.

File: seymour.gif (362KB, 256x184px) Image search: [Google]

362KB, 256x184px

Are there any new hunter books schedule yet? The Beast one was very ho-hum

>>54615370

>These setting books are not things which fans are clamouring for.

That's not quite true. Fans want alt-settings and historical settings all the time. The issues is that people want those supplemental to the regular content, which isn't happening. Dark Eras came around a time when the lines seemed healthier, or at least that there was light at the end of the tunnel. Mage 2e was any day now, and it seemed like 2e would have a smoother course once the big three were out. This was not the case.

>stuff like these setting books are of anything anathema to the style of play that makes the White Wolf system shine

In a world where Dark Ages got its own line during the height of White Wolf's popularity, this opinion seems pretty ahistorical.

>The stories and world were ours

Developer essays and dedicated metaplot chapters and adventures say hello. The games were always world first, game second. CofD is less so, but still attracts the same kind of lore fan that is probably the silent majority of WoD/CofD fans.

>So yeah, I sure as hell hope Dark Eras 2 fails and fails hard.

Too late there. What we are seeing with the Dark Eras 2 KS is not a failure, but a regression to the mean. What looks like an embarrassing situation to our fanbase is just par for the course for many other tabletop RPG KSes and KSes in general. The honeymoon of WoD/CofD being back is over. It took five years to happen, but it came. Not even Masquerade's return with a fresh coat of modern gaming influenced paint seems to be kicking things into gear.

>>54606634

Isn't he the flaming SJW? Wouldn't everyone hate him if he tripfagged anyway?

>>54606887

He doesn't need names. He simply is.

>>54615560
"Shielding" as described by magefags here is nonsense though. It's a powergamed interpretation of creative thaumatology that would probably not pass Storyteller muster in even a Mage only game without more limitations. In fact the actual precedent in Forces, the analog to Alchemist's Touch is Environmental Shield ** which, seems a perfect analog in that it protects against indirect damage. Your kinetic shield is a fucking pipe dream.

>>54615412
I'm still not convinced Celerity would inflict a CoW

If it was Celerity butting heads with Acceleration, sure
But against a supposed 'kinetic shield', it's a bit silly to assume.

>>54615734
Alchemist's Touch is the basis for the Magefag's Kinetic Shield

I have seen nothing but evident material supporting their claims.
Just be happy it isn't total damn immunity to kinetic assaults.

>>54615620

No, I'm not taking about PoD. The books that are printed from the KS campaign are traditionally printed, and given a pallet based on the number of backers, with some extra copies just to be safe. This is what the projects are actually finding, and where most of the money goes to, because a three person company doing a large print run, and now a large print run and a separate print run to be sold in brick and mortar stores, is nigh impossible without the projects.

Ideally, OPP should be focusing on their creator owned and original IP as their major income, with WoD and CofD coming out with one core and two splats at a time over the course of two or three years for each line. All books should be PoD only, and slimmed down to about 90 pages for each core, and 70 pages for each splat. This is a workload that the company could actually keep going.

But this is probably not what fans want at all. A 90 page Mage core might kill people with rage.

>>54615685
>Isn't he the flaming SJW?

You're confusing David Hill, SJW communist, with Dave Brookshaw, Mage and Deviant developer.

It's a common mistake, but the two Dave's are nothing alike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpmJa4lWpKg

>>54615788
Well, yeah, that's true. I thought you were referring to the general book run.

File: NuWhiteWolf.jpg (320KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

320KB, 1920x1080px

>>54615813

Ah, I will commit the sin and pay the price, that never seems to get paid here.

I was wrong, my bad.

Whose the guy that got angry about militant jews or whatever? They're a few sjw's now related to various WW products, especially

with people creating pic related, I must have gotten them mixed up. They're so many of them now.

>>54615174
>I'm still waiting

Wait longer, bitch.

>>54615243
Exact price of licensing fees are a secret, tied up in NDA. There are only three full time employees of OPP, and no office space as such - everyone operates at home. The Kickstarter cut and the promo materials are probably the biggest cost - all that merch thrown around at conventions doesn't grow on trees. And yes, travel and expenses for the small entourage they send to the conventions would only be slightly offset by whatever crap they can peddle while they're there.

>>54615673
Oh look folks, it's either RichT or one of those gross Metaplot junkie OPP forum sycophant fans. Thanks for your input. Sorry your little kickstarter's in danger of failing, and people appear to want to tapdance on its grave. Deal with it.

>>54615576
>Likely the storyteller of the crossover will find other reasonable means of compromise to bring the mage's poor splat balance in line. Stuff involving rationals like the supernatural nature of the other splat creatures themselves.

No one is suggesting that you cannot or should not implement house rules to suit your own games for whatever reason, including the Mage developer. The discussion, however, is about the actual printed canon rules.

People claiming a rule or mechanic, no matter how powerful, doesn't exist because they don't like it or believe it's "unfair" or "unbalanced" is ridiculous. Denial is sad.

If the discussion was why a rule shouldn't be implemented or suggesting for mitigating it in crossover play so mages don't run roughshod over other pc's, they discussion wouldn't have been so nasty and repetitive.

>>54615863

Brucato cut the Lions of Zion from M20 (if only the rest of the Crafts went with them, but I digress), the picture you posted was written by Zak S, who actually doesn't care for White Wolf and considers OPP to be a conspiracy of conservatives out to get him for being too sex-positive. He got the job because he was friends with White Wolf's creative director on Facebook and they paid him a whole lot of money.

>>54615842

Yeah, no, I was just talking about Kickstarter projects. Sorry about the confusion there.

>>54615781
Except the thing is, Magefag's kinetic shield is absolute garbage. It's not within the bounds of what Alchemist's Shield or any other two dot shielding spell does. It's a whole stretch beyond, which is why it's so utterly ridiculous and raises so many arguments.

Every Arcana already has a two dot shielding spell - misinterpreting the one most easy to twist into something overpowered while ignoring the rest is just foolish. Look at the others, and you will see, that two dot arcana shielding spells are much different beasts than what magefags here think/want them to be. Their "creative thaumatology" isn't. It's bad gaming, or not understanding the very rules/design of the game they love so much.

>>54615889
>merch thrown around at conventions

Like what? I'm genuinely curious. I don't get to conventions any more.

>>54615952
No worries. I've been camping all weekend, I'm tired (but insomnia says I can't sleep) and uncomfortable (sunblock did not work as well as it should've), so I blame my misfiring brain.

>>54615956
A 'Kinetic Shield' isn't absolute garbage. It's a single facet of Forces. Fire, sound, kinetic energy, heat, lightning, etc. Just one out of all of those.

There's nothing to suggest, it's even silly to do so, that Forces Apprentices cannot do such.
It's not as overpowered as you seem to think it is.

>>54615956
Kinetic shields have been discussed over at the OPP forums before. It's pretty fucking blatant how it would function.

You're complaining about something so damn petty. It's not like a kinetic shield is the most overpowered thing a mage can muster.

*cough* *cough* gravity manipulation *cough* *cough* *cough*

>>54615952
He cut them because he said he had to think about just whether or not he could feel good about himself for including what amounts to a group of jews on an anti-arab jihad, when groups like ISIL are so propagandized against and hated for just fighting for their homelands and faiths. He is a good man weighing his conscience on a very difficult issue.

>>54615445
>fundamental energies of the universe.
>You use this fucking phrase one more time kid and I will come to your house and shit down your throat!

Heh. I should use the expression more just because it annoys tough talking Anon's like yourself.

It was actually an expression DaveB used when discussing fools who piss off Forces masters, although I cannot find the screencap at the moment.

It also doesn't change the point at all. What moron splat character would instigate a direct physical assault against Obrimos or other mage proficient in Forces. It doesn't require a genius to know that in combat you play on an adversary's weakness, not their strengths. It is really so shocking to suggest werewolves might not be best served utilizing a hack'n'slash strategy against a wizard who can shrug off bullets and fly?

File: c10e354b59475fe94f5ccb128c861cd7.jpg (489KB, 1600x1164px) Image search: [Google]

489KB, 1600x1164px

A woofs claws/bite is doing aggravated damage to a squishy human anyway. Mage kinetic shield can only block so much damage

>>54615987
If you could figure out what an indirect kinetic effect is, then sure, it could protect you. So yeah um, perhaps it could protect you from stuff like what? Shrapnel? random falling debris? Ricochets? There you go. Environmental kinetic effects? Because that is what those two dot shielding spells do. Sorry mate, it's the system.

>>54615412
>>54615445
>>54615455

Hey, don't have a CoW, man.

>>54615481
try and hunt down the TV series "Carnivale" - it might inspire you.

>>54615576
This is why Crossover is such a fucking stupid idea. Even if you manage to stop the Mage from teleporting the rest of the party to the upper atmosphere in a fit of pique, the Werewolf is one Frenzy roll away from throwing the Vampire out of the moving car in broad daylight (based on a true story). If you have to do it, pick a central Splat and re-interpret the other Splats to match, using the powers of the core Splat for comparison. Otherwise you'll be up all night looking for obscure addendum to explain whether Mind 2 is enough to counter a Wraith's use of Puppetry 3... and if you are naive enough to consider that Anything 3 = Something 3, then I remind you that 5 is the limit for most Splats, Gifts rarely go higher than 5, Archspheres only go up to 9, Disciplines go up to 10 and no-one has figured out how Combination Disciplines work with Crossover *at all*.

>>54615619
>Except Mage doesn't run off of Harry Potter magic.

Although I imagine that in-universe, if Harry Potter exists in the CofD, mages sometime refer to sleepers as muggles. Even the Wise are not totally immune to pop culture.

>>54616034
Kinetic shields can block Aggravated damage, but Potency comes into play. It's why total immunity is impossible.

With the bonuses Mages can garner from Duration/etc, a Werewolf's physical attack will do little to the shield.

>>54615987
Environmental Shield says otherwise. In fact it absolutely contradicts you.

>>54615896

The Kickstarter made its goal. By definition, it didn't fail. It didn't fund in 24 hours and smash stretch goals, but that's not a failure, that's just how most Kickstarters have their campaigns. It's still an issue, because it means that OPP needs to hunker down for the lean times when CofD/WoD aren't so special anymore and have to live in a much larger gaming pool. Can it do that? I don't think it will. In order to survive those times and do what it takes, it's going to have to get lean and make decisions that will piss off fans even more, and I think the company's to addicted to trying to be classic White Wolf in their output, which they simply cannot do.

I didn't give a dime to DE2. I'm too broke to buy giant books or play sycophant. But calling a regular Kickstarter campaign a failure because it wasn't funded very fast is a bit silly.

>>54606657
As far as the bible goes he can't die and any harm against him, would come back sevenfold.

So I'd assume he doesn't need any.

>>54606854
I always pictured hm as having 10 in every discipline.

>>54616015
That they've "been discussed" doesn't make them any less wrong.

>>54616043
That's a very thin argument there, anon.

I'm not sure whether you're intentionally acting stupid or not, but keep running with it.

File: 27f10ecd1935fdf3cfdcb9bba0b05ba6--arctic-fox-bad-wolf.jpg (85KB, 636x600px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 636x600px

>>54616049
A woofs claws and bites are permanent so they would get the advantage in that situation

>>54616069
You're pretty much stating at this point that a specific Practice doesn't work the way it's supposed to.

You're going nowhere.

>>54616022

>Murdering and kidnapping aid workers
>fighting for their homeland

You're going to burn achmed.

>>54615987
>>54616015
You are forgetting Turn Momentum too - Turn Momentum is a three dot forces spell that acts as a shield that blocks projectiles.

Why would it take a three dot spell to do only a fraction of what their imagined kinetic shield would do if it were within the bounds of the system? Hint: Their Kinetic Shield is bogus.

>>54616086
They would have to beat the beefed up bonuses of the shield. Which is highly unlikely.

>magefags come up with kinetic shield on grounds of creative thaumaturgy
>non-magefags screech at the obvious mage supremacy
>they fail to see that this isn't even the most ridiculous thing wizards can pull off

congratulations, you're cementing mage supremacy by complaining about these kinetic shields. you're indirectly causing mage whores to win this argument.

stop

>>54601671
Fun character concepts for a mortal athlete?
I can't think of anything besides them fucking up their career or something with. drug abusse?

>>54615619
It doesn't??? DOES MUM KNOW???
>>54615620
The exact model with DrivethruRPG is unknown, but it seems that the printer is licensed by DrivethruRPG in an "on demand" capacity and gets paid a proportion of all books as well as a retainer. The only responsibility OPP has in that relationship is making sure they have the appropriate proofs. It's also worth pointing out that the REAL cost of pre-printed books 20 years ago was actually storing them in a massive old WW warehouse, including all the work that went with it - stock-keeping, OH&S, hiring staff and security.

It makes me wonder about the pallets they order for Kickstarters... are they just sitting in Bollicking Bose Bailey's (i have a cold) parlour? Bitch Thomas' garage? The dumpster Brucatto has his mail delivered to?

>>54616132

I've participated in some interesting mortal starting games but fluff buffy always shows up eventually.

>>54616102
I wouldn't bring Turn Momentum into this argument. It's basically a superior version of what these Magefags are claiming Forces 2 can pull off.

Hell, it's even Reflexive.

>>54615652
Only the Beast one?
ONLY the Beast one?

Buddy, stop and try to remember the last time they printed a book that didn't fill you with burning resentment and buyer's remorse.

>>54616102

Turn Momentum can *redirect* attacks back at the attacker or others.

In Mage 2e, the Practices work *exactly* as described and intended. There's purportedly no balancing whatsoever. That means that sometimes a lower dot Practice is more effective for a specific effect or far more useful or powerful than its dot rating would suggest.

>>54616180
So would that cause the werewolves to claw themselves instead?

>mage supremacy

>>54616143
IIRC, at one point they said the printer distros the kickstarter copies directly.

>>54616162
>I wouldn't bring Turn Momentum into this argument. It's basically a superior version of what these Magefags are claiming Forces 2 can pull off.
>Hell, it's even Reflexive.

Don't go anywhere near vehicular traffic or a gunfight with a mage who can cast Turn Momentum. If you do, you'll receive a nasty lesson in "mage supremacy."

I just don't understand the suicidal need to run head first into direct physical conflict with an Obrimos or similarly-endowed mage. Is it some pubescent D&D conditioning some cannot overcome?

>>54616124
Actually maybe they're bristling at it and not reverse gravity because "kinetic shield" is cheating, breaking the rules of the game, it's not something Mages can actually do, and you've now been called on it.

Shielding spells for all of the arcana are well delineated in their capabilities. For Forces, the example is Environmental Shield, which is actually very explicit about only affecting indirect damage, so any two dot shield for forces is going to in all reason be bound by a similar caveat. That sort of thing is part and parcel of creative thaumatology son.

Further cementing the limits, there is an actual "kinetic" shield in Forces, a three dot spell, Turn Momentum, which only affects missiles/thrown objects. This allows the mage to use the spell instead of his defense to harmlessly redirect the object.

So yeah, no kinetic shield as has been raved about here by this bunch of cheating whores. The game just doesn't work that way. DaveB designed it too well.

>>54616247
>thaumatology

Are you intentionally misspelling this

>>54616187
>So would that cause the werewolves to claw themselves instead?

Yes, and the mage wouldn't even need to spend the additional Reach for super-fast attacks like firearms.

Woof fans are going nuts over Forces 2. It's like they forgot that Forces still has a ways to go on the power scale. If direct combat with a Forces Apprentice is problematic, it's not going to get easier against a Disciple, Adept or (*shudder*) Master.

>Obrimos Supremacy
>Suck it, Acanthus

>>54616247
Impenetrable (assuming you can't teleport or defy spatial shenanigans) kinetic shields/barriers do exist, anon.

It's called Ban. Mixed with Forces.

>>54616243
>Is it some pubescent D&D conditioning some cannot overcome?

Heh.

>>54616307
What part of projectile don't you understand?

>>54615673
>That's not quite true. Fans want alt-settings and historical settings all the time. The issues is that people want those supplemental to the regular content, which isn't happening.

It also doesn't help that each historical setting is so thin, so light on material, that the chapter in question can be given or sold for cents on the dollar, individually on DrivethruRPG. The settings don't have to focus on two splats, they could focus on one for more depth, or cover the entire Big 5 for more versatility. What do we get instead? Gumshoe Detective Era for Geist and Beast, for REASONS!

>In a world where Dark Ages got its own line during the height of White Wolf's popularity, this opinion seems pretty ahistorical.

Then let us examine the historical record. White Wolf attempted to launch multiple historical variations on their Big 5 lines, with varying levels of success.
* Wraith the Great War: one book.
* Werewolf the Wild West: five books and a poker deck, a BAD poker deck
* Mage the Sorcerers Crusade: ten books

Changeling never had a spin-off, so we can only guess what they had planned.

The glaring exception was Vampire the Dark Ages, which did so well for itself they relaunched it as simply Dark Ages and released splatbooks for that era (Dark Ages: Fae, Dark Ages: Inquisition, Dark Ages: Mage etc.)

>>The stories and world were ours
>Developer essays and dedicated metaplot chapters and adventures say hello.

Yeah? Tell them we miss them, and say that the paperback fiction, comic books, console games and European "White Wolf Trivia Championship" (a real thing) send their love. <3

>Too late there. ...What looks like an embarrassing situation to our fanbase is just par for the course for many other tabletop RPG KSes and KSes in general.

Yes, this is true, people have been burnt by Kickstarter too many times. The perception that WW/OPP will not deliver is enough.

>>54616280
He's likely trying to get under our skin, in the most inept manner possible. Or an old GURPS player

>>54616307
Oh boy look at me play with muh fire when I can literally erase you from the timeline. Fuck off shitty ass elemental wizard

File: CrqSj4q.jpg (47KB, 774x1031px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 774x1031px

>>54616280
Shit, a reflex from GURPS, there was a whole magic system book called Creative Thaumatology, I'm old, my memory gets weird.

>>54615485
of course it is. Just throw something between you and the curse, like a phoenix or shit

File: puff.jpg (58KB, 600x448px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 600x448px

I hope to god Dave isn't reading any of this

>>54616247>>54615956
>Magefag's kinetic shield is absolute garbage. It's not within the bounds of what Alchemist's Shield
>Every Arcana already has a two dot shielding spell

Are you a troll or just retarded.

First, Shielding is an entire Practice, not a single spell. The spells in the books are just a small sample of what's possible.

More importantly, "Kinetic Shield" is basically the same spell word for word as Alchemist's Touch, just replacing particular substances and materials with types of forces. Your complaint are little more than it's too powerful, so therefore it cannot be. Not only is this generally an ignorant position,it's particularly foolish given how Mage 2e explicitly rejects artificial Arcana and Practice limitations and cares not at all about crossover balance.

In the Mage setting, near immunity to kinetic damage is moderately useful, particularly against otherwise minor threats like armed Sleepers, hunters, traffic accidents and falling off the occassion cliff, but provides only a very small modicum of protection against actual Mage antagonists, from other mages to demigods and Abyssal monsters, who have more than ample means to ruin your day besides direct physical assaults.

>>54616034
>A woofs claws/bite is doing aggravated damage to a squishy human anyway.

That's not true in Forsaken 2e.

Eating human flesh causes aggravated damage, but not all melee attack. Similarly, woofs can do aggravated damages to some spirits, but only if their effective rank is 2 higher than the spirit's.

>>54616439
Anon, what are you doing?

It's impossible to reason with them.

File: 1338051034919.jpg (66KB, 392x349px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 392x349px

>>54615928
So... the discussion was "nasty and repetitive" so much you wanted to perpetuate it? What does that make you?

>>54615952
> (if only the rest of the Crafts went with them, but I digress)
But then they wouldn't get to be The Real Good Guys, especially now that Brucatto has decided that the Tradition are actually bad guys and the Technocracy are actually Nephandi stooges.

I fucking hate M20.

Also, if anyone wants to see Zak S fuck (he should stick to shitty art and worse fiction), check this out:

>http://www.gotporn.com/Zak-Fucking-Girlgriend/video-711904

>https://www.porn.com/videos/bitch-with-mohawk-sucks-and-fucks-him-good-1777613

Zak, you're a little bitch. If I fucked Mandy Morbid, there would be fucking noise complaints.

The technocracy were the good guys all along

>>54616336
>What part of projectile don't you understand?

"This spell allows the mage to redirect a target’s momentum.Usually this forms a shield against projectiles..."

The spell is not limited to projectiles. In any event, a comparable effect can easily be accomplished at the same dot level either as another creative thaumaturgy spell (which would still potentially be reflexive), or if necessary, a Reach effect on Turn Momentum.

>>54615971
Oh, T-Shirts, magnets, fliers and booklets, stickers.... also, they tend to hand out "vouchers" for a "discount", but I suspect that only applies to hysterically expensive .PDF files.

They never, never offer discounts on POD.

>>54616493
Of course, but now non-mage players know the truth. That they're not even being true within the bounds of the game itself, that they're a bunch of twinkie exploiters talking about bad theorycraft.

File: bwahaaaw.jpg (12KB, 258x245px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 258x245px

>Forces 2 Kinetic Shield

The new preferred method of griefing Mage-haters

>>54616537
They sell them at cost if you backed the Kickstarter. But because they aren't the printer and the printer wants their money they can't really sell at a discount.

>>54616357
>Oh boy look at me play with muh fire when I can literally erase you from the timeline

Time/Fate meet Prime.

Those goofy Acanthus parlor tricks may work with muggles and lesser supernaturals, but fizzle in the face of supernal might.

>>54616067
Well he did invent them, so yeah. Somewhere (Berlin by Night? Gehenna?) It states that he can come up with new Disciplines on the fly, so the question is whether new Bloodlines "develop" a new power, or whether they just rediscover something Caine put in the blood a few thousand years earlier...?

>>54616567
That doesn't protect your gnosis 1 0 xp mage from my 0 xp Wyrd Changeling from pumping your safe places air supply full of poison.

>>54616408
>I hope to god Dave isn't reading any of this

I disagree. I hope he's reading and now understands that a Mage FAQ is absolutely imperative to shut us the fuck up.

>Or we can wait until 2056 for Crossover Chronicles

>>54616060
>...calling a regular Kickstarter campaign a failure because it wasn't funded very fast is a bit silly.

It isn't silly at all, especially seeing as that was such a selling point for NuWW's continuing support of OPP. They promised the parent company cash on tap, that's clear from the keynote address and other similar speeches. Underperformance, in that light, is a failure.

>>54616408
I guarantee you DaveB is one of the shitposters

>>54616523
>The technocracy were the good guys all along

>Indoor Plumbing and Vaccine Supremacy!

>>54616587
Too bad I literally made you so damn unlucky that when you tried your prime shenanigans you accidently killed yourself

>>54616022
I for one am overjoyed that content was cut so Philip could include a didactic essay about how I should offer my guests roast venison, sourced locally from an environmentally responsible small business. #sarcasm

On a more serious note, it may be because NuWW would like people who are qualified to talk about such matters write about them. Brucatto is not Jewish, Palestinian or Israeli, and I think any genuine treatment of a militant pro-Israel Craft would need the perspective of one of those three (preferably all three with a decent editor)

>>54616069
Yes, they are wrong. Yes, they are overpowered and ridiculous, crafted for Munchkin scum.

The best thing you can do is refuse to allow such bullshit at your table. You aren't going to convince anyone else (except me) how fucking brain damaged it is, because of the amount of salty DaveB cum this thread chugs on a daily basis. Just ban cunts from your table and draw a line in the sand over shitty rules, problem solved.

>>54616658
But he covered the militant pro-muslim groups. The same ones nu-WW featured in their mobile game.

>>54616653
You mean his Universal counter spell attainment that can shut down your attempts to make him unlucky before you could get off step 1?

>>54616506
What a disgusting pair of junkies.

>>54616689
They are wrong for being overpowered? Anon, please.
There's nothing wrong about such blatant displays of mechanics.

There are so many ways of blocking kinetic assaults, it's not something even remotely arguable.
House-rule what you want, but don't you dare pretend that it wasn't by design.

>>54616534
Wow you guys try to read the world into everything, even when the picture is painted clearly for you.

>>54616523
was this ever in question?

>>54616132
There's an alarming trend amongst my country's footballers to hang out in nightclubs with thugs and gangsters. How long can a professional athlete hang with these types without being implicated, compromised, even framed and blackmailed? How can they balance public image against private carnage, and how does that reflect the lives of the Supernaturals?

Alright guys Last post about this character...
Backstory time. You all probably remember Abbadon well here is his story.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q4sz9Y7122rPqGrU49aVx0VuP82LOXdk5Dt4kT5XQRA/edit?usp=sharing

>>54616629
He's probably the one citing actual stuff from the book.