/WFG/ Warhammer Fantasy General

>>54235300

I was also tempted to make this 'how come you get two swords?' edition.

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Reminder that bretonnians are larping Elfaboos worshipping an elf goddess and that Karl Franz is the true leader of humanity.

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>>54235300
Reposting third thread in a row.

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>>54235388
And here's the one for magical and divine marks. I'm trying to come up with marks for Hedgecraft magicians. I have an idea for one more positive mark that grants Very Resilient and Hardy but I don't know what to call it.

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>>54235377

b-b-but... muh lady...

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SOMEBODY

>>54235326
you should have made it "artwork that makes your eyes bleed editon" jesus...

>>54235430

This artwork is probably older than most the people in these threads.

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> TWF you search 'warhammer' in /tg/ and it brings up the AoS general.

>>54235377
Karl what are you doing in a dwarf machine

>>54235442
i fail to see how that makes a difference when someone decided it was ok to authorise a colour blind artist.

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>>54235498
Is patented nuln technology

>>54235498
>>Karl what are you doing in a dwarf machine
What Dwarf would deny giving a lift to someone who held Ghal Maraz?

>>54235838
Any dwarf. He has to actually credit himself as a dwarf-friend.

Is there any /tg/-approved mod for TWW?

>>54236204
>>54236204
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Total_War:_WARHAMMER#.2Ftg.2F_Approved_mods

the section is generally well updated too.

>>54236638
Thanks

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Currently reworking the plot for my WFRP game, Asking for thought and feedback
> PCs are a peasant with a cursed sword, a carriage driver, a dwarf soldier, a Norse merc and an assassin from Tilea
>They're all riding with the coach on the road, Find a wrecked dwarf caravan in rural Kislev
>Little is left but a scroll, meant for the peasant, telling of the caravan's hold owing her family a debt from generations ago
>It's enough to cover her siblings' education and care for years, with a good chunk left over.
>They get there to claim it, only for the hold to be besieged by Skaven/Gobbos
>They can't just leave, both because they escape routes are either filled with enemies or being collapsed
I'm trying to give everyone a useful role, the Assassin is the only one I can't really think of something for.
I also considered using the same setup to lead them to Karak Vlag, get attacked by Slaaneshi cultists and then maybe hired by another hold to help clear it out.

>>54236855
Assassinating a Grey Seer or a Goblin Big Boss?

>>54235838
Isn't Ghal Maraz just a "regular" old mastercrafted weapon to the Dwarfs?

>>54237540
>used to kill an everchosen of chaos.
nah, its more than that.

>>54235377

Franz is a craven usurper as is tradition amongst the sons of Reikland.

>>54238464
Bretonnians worshipped a literal elf for thousands of years, doing everything she said like slaves, and when the truth came out they didn't even care.
ELF'D

>>54238464
Which Elector Count is most likely to raise up arms against Karl Franz, or perhaps a successor from Reikland?

It could be cool to play with a campaign where some Bretonnians try to support an Elector Count trying to claim the Empire for himself, sort of a war over Osterland Succession, if you will.

>>54238555
KF's rule is secure. The empire is always under attack by some assorted force from outside. A charismatic leader + war = secure power base
>>54238464
>bretcuck fantasies.

>>54238464
t. Toadlicker

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>>54238555

The true Elector Count of Stirland, of course.

>>54237540
Yeah, essentially.

There's also a rumour that the hammer Karl-Franz uses isn't the one Sigmar wielded.

>>54238818
I honestly preferred 1ed WFRPs version of Karl.

>>54238891
Nah that's only him in Total War Warhammer.

>>54237540

No dwarf could recraft such a hammer and no rune priest could make those runes anymore i think. What kind of runes do the hammer have by the way? Was it made before the rule of three was established?

>>54238528
>and when the truth came out they didn't even care

I thought they said 'fuck off' to Lileath and her orders to help the other races and just sat in Bretonnia until the end.

>>54239557
Giles Le Briton was their king, and he effectively was still beholden to the wood elves.
>>54239005
But it was. Ghal Moraz was wielded by every successive Emperor after Sigmar left it on his throne before leaving. It's the same one.

>>54239653
So was he the one that said fuck off? I'm pretty certain someone said fuck off. Maybe it was Jerrod.

>>54235377
>sigmar doesn't love his followers enough to give them a ward save

>>54240378
>sigmar bequeaths them an empire that is the pinnacle of human existence
>elf gives them a ward save.
Tombcucks and Cathayans need not apply

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>>54240400
>sigmar bequeaths them an empire that is the pinnacle of human existence

What's the best greenskin novel/series?

>>54236855
What sorta curse on the sword?

>>54240741
Wherever he is, he must also rape.

>>54240468

If you can't handle us at our worst, you don't diverse us at our best.

>>54241849
>bretonnian education

>>54241893

> Education.

We put that right next to hygiene, ie. in the bin.

I just got 12 Bret Armsmen for $25. New on the sprue.

I plan to convert them for 40K inquisitorial uses... but, I want to know if this is some great crime. Given how in demand they are? Or am I being mislead at how in-demand they are... and should I instead keep them as intended and start collecting an OOP army that will make me broke?

So, i am making NPC's for my "road movie" game, WFRP2e.
Long story short, players must make lots of money on the road from Blackfire Pass to Nuln.
I'm struggling with statline of one questgiver, eccentric uncouth elf vagabond.
He has one big mistery, that he is ex-corsair in search of something.
Of course he stays clear from any other elf, who can figure out his true affiliation.
But how different his statline from typical high elf? Is there homerules for druchii generation?

>>54242055
Collect an OOP army. Stew in bitter misery. Become a true grognard.

>>54242062
Replace Specialist Weapon Group (Longbow) with Specialist Weapon Group (Crossbow).

Give him the Torture skill.

Give him Speak Language (Druhir) instead of Speak Language (Eltharin).

Not mandatory, but most druchii are pale-skinned and dark-haired due to their ethnic history.

Otherwise just gen him like any elf.

>>54242095
Thank you very much, this makes sense.

But is torture necessary? I had impression that lot of them are just soldiers in very fucked up society.
I'm somewhat want subvert expectations of my players with quirky at first sight hobo-elf, who is ruthless, but somewhat honorable killer.

>>54242200
Torture is frequently a hobby among the druchii, even an art form. Among corsairs it tends to serve a more practical purpose: getting information out of captives. Very useful to know what harbor defenses to expect, after all.

>>54239653
>But it was. Ghal Moraz was wielded by every successive Emperor after Sigmar left it on his throne before leaving. It's the same one.

Sigmar returned Ghal Maraz to the dwarfs. Years later they'd regift it back to the Empire. The issue is, when they regifted it they specifically refer to it as 'the hammer named Ghal Maraz' - not Sigmars hammer.

To be fair though, there are different accounts on what happened from different authors. Sogmar taking his hammer and the dwarfs goving it back is just the original story -- and one which I personally think paints Sigmar as a better man.

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>>54235069
I guess so anon, that I do have some creative freedom, But I really want to scalp some official art to make unit cards for zombie pirates in tw:w in a similiar way to how I took the red dukes warhammer online art to make him a cooler portrait for the mousillon mod which fits insanely well.

I guess what I'm really looking for is zombie pirates art that matches the tw:theme so I can make unit cards outa them. pic related I guess.

40kid here, how do you guys do it?
Are there ANY games at your LGS?

>>54242966
mousillonanon, is that you?

>>54242702
The dwarves have more self-respect than to pass off a mere replica as a powerful relic they themselves created.
Anyone attempting such a thing would be going right into the Book of Grudges.

>>54242055
It wasn't a horrible purchase, but for some reason the line infantry isn't going for all that much, compared to Questing Knights or Grail Reliquaes - probably because it's easier to replace with 3rd party stuff.

Don't feel bad about using it for 40k, I've seen some people make great medieval-style guardsmen with them.

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>>54243058
yes anon, I live here as well, I'm doing texture editing and trying to put together something with zombie pirates.

>>54243069
>The dwarves have more self-respect than to pass off a mere replica as a powerful relic they themselves created.

Except they weren't passing off a replica. It wasn't like the Empire came and asked for the hammer, it was - the theory goes - just a gift in recognition of their alliance. Naming a weapon after a historical weapon from the past isn't the same as trying to sneak a replacement under the radar.

>>54243395
I'm sure the dwarves would have told them if it was the actual weapon or if it was a replica. To lie or purposefully mislead them into believing it's real when it's a replica would have compromised THE most important symbol of their alliance.

Any fun adventures set in Sylvania? It's a shame Mannlet is around.

>>54244174
He isn't always around, you know - for a century or two he was dead in the moors, and needed to be brought back. Even after he was, at least in before the End Times he mostly just brooded in his castle and planned to conquer the Empire or something, while most of the other vampires squabbled and carried on minor campaigns. Lots of room for adventures.

>>54244469
He's just such an unlikable fag, I wish the skaven had killed him or something.

>>54235300
My campaign happens in a whaling town. What do people think about this rules for a harpoon launcher?

Harpoon Launcher (handheld)
Cost: 60 gc
Encumberance: 50
Group: Gunpowder
Damage: 4
Range: 8/16
reload: 2 full
Qualities; Impact, Unreliable, Special
Availability: Very rare

Harpoon Launchers are specialised for taking down the big beasts of the sea, but anything that can maim a whale can also kill a norscan.
Common practise is to tie the harpoon by a rope to the launcher, in order to keep hold of whatever is pierced.

With 2 degrees of success on the balistic skill check, A creature that is hit by the roped harpoon may attempt to dislodge the harpoon, but must succeed a sucessful willpower test and suffer an additional D10 damage, which may have ulrics fury due to the pain and trauma of removing the device. Alternatively, if intelligent the creature may roll an opposed strength roll with a -10% penalty to pull the launcher from its owners hands,

Once hooked, the owner may choose to pull on the launcher, causing d10 + sb-4 wounds, and on a sucessful opposed strength test draging the prey 1 square.

A harpoon costs 25 shillings, equal to a javelin.

An explosive harpoon costs 8 gc, the same as a bomb, and causes 8 damage instead. An explosive harpoon should not be roped, if simply for the loss of rope.

>>54239518
It supposedly had a shit ton of rare runes, but in game mechanicas ut has two master runes, and two other regular one. I only remember one of the master was Alaric's.

>>54243499
>I'm sure the dwarves would have told them if it was the actual weapon or if it was a replica. To lie or purposefully mislead them into believing it's real when it's a replica would have compromised THE most important symbol of their alliance.

They told them exactly what it was. The hammer named Ghal Maraz. If you're ever at Bugman's Bar, they can tell you the full story.

>There are those that study the tale of the returned hammer and note the dwarf emissaries did not state that Sigmar himself gave it to them and in fact never said that the hammer they gave the Emperor Sigismund II was actually Ghal Maraz and not a lesser warhammer that also splits skulls (if one has a fine enough understanding of Khazalid).

>>54239518
In Game Terms, Ghal Maraz gives the wielder +2 attacks, auto-wounds, ignores armour saves and unsaved wounds pop into d3 wounds.

In rune terms, that's the equivalent of the Master Rune of Alaric the Mad, 2 Runes of Fury, a watered down Master Rune of Smiting and a no-longer existing rune that gives you auto-hitting, which would be at Master level at least.

In fluff, the Rules for Runic Weapons are there to stop Runesmiths from killing themselves - with the exception of the Rule of Pride, which the Dwarf splatbook turned from an understandable personal rule to a weird implication on runic-magic.

Anyway, back to what I was saying - for weapons like Ghal Maraz, shit like the Rules of Runes doesn't apply, because it was made by Runelords so skilled and powerful in their craft that the rules where simply unnecessary. They simply don't make them like the used to.

Personally, I just don't think that the Ghal Maraz we see with Karl-Franz and Valten is really strong enough to be the one wielded by Sigmar.

>>54245397
That was true only for WHRP 1e where Ghal Maraz was buried in lost hold guarded by dwarf ghosts. Karl Franz has real one in 8e.

>>54245565
>That was true only for WHRP 1e where Ghal Maraz was buried in lost hold guarded by dwarf ghosts. Karl Franz has real one in 8e.

Also true/optional for WFB, based on stuff written on the walls at Warhammer World.

Ultimately, it's story optional - whatever works best for the game you're running.

>>54245587
In that timeline Karl Franz was corrupt innefective ruler who died of poisoning, it was different WFB in 80s.

>>54245617
It was a different WFB in the '00s. It's a massively different WFB now. You play the game you want to play, man.

>>54245617
That just sounds stupid. Good thing they fixed it, because otherwise why would people want to defeat Chaos? In a world that's way too grimdark, there'd be nothing good or precious even worth preserving from destruction.

That's something I think GW realized over time.

>>54246248
>why would people want to defeat Chaos?

Because Chaos wants to torture them to infinity and beyond.

>>54246248
>Good thing they fixed it

Eh, I prefer the idea of a flawed Karl-Franz. Maybe not the full-on Wormtongue they depicted him as in WFRP 1ed, but something a little less than the beautiful, magnificent, flawless, chiselled, untouchable beast he is today.

>>54246253
I mean the players, not the character in-game. A world that crapsack wouldn't even be worth saving if every ruler is a totally irredeemable and corrupt prick,

>>54246280
Because the little guy trying to eek out a living in that world doesn't deserve to be tortured to infinite and beyond.

>>54243033
Yeah, my local shop has a decent 9th age crowd. It does vary alot though, some other shops do not have wfb at all.
Have you played fantasy before?

>>54235477
It's tehnically warhammer

>DMing first chaos campaign
>Players are a bunch of khornate marauders with a single Tzeentchian Doomweaver to be the brains
>One marauder got extremely lucky and got a daemon weapon and chaos armor with his first reward of chaos
>They just rip and tear at everything

Should I try to encourage actual roleplay at this point or just let them smash their way up Kislev on their way back to Norsca? They seem to be having fun rollplaying.

>>54246271

He probably is fairly flawed just none of the legends about him mention those bits.

Of course at the end of the day for someone of the standing of a starting WFRP character it doesn't really affect them if Karl is a god or a total failure, their world is going to be just as dangerous and difficult.

Unless you are having some large scale war going on behind the scenes of your storyline.

>>54246554
Let 'em smash. Sneak in roleplaying when they have to choose who they smash.

>>54246554

I mean, it sounds like they are roleplaying a chaos warband pretty well.

>>54246640
Maybe having another chaos band suggesting an alliance or something to hit a bigger target? Just some small character interactions that lead to more smashy.

The hardest bit would be making them all involved if the Khorne guys just decided to let the Doomweaver do all the talking.

With my own personal bias towards "chaos gods having more than 1 facet" you could see how they interact with different styles of Khorne worshiper or something. The band running into members of a Knight Order that worships Khorne (overtly or accidentally) or something.

>>54246666
The real danger is the group falling in on themselves. It's been my experience that Chaos campaigns tend to self-combust due to internal power plays.

>>54246666
I can't say thats untrue, especially a khornate one.

I think if I run chaos again I'll do it as an imperial chaos cult to get the fun of chaos rewards but still have some meaningful non-combat encounters.

>>54246666
If you want them to roleplay, send them on a quest to stop a rival chaos cult that's infiltrated a city.

>>54246847

The side line of trying to keep the chaos worship hidden would certainly open up the non-combat side of things I'm sure.

So I'm trying to put together a oneshot and thought of this: Sewerjack patrols and rat catchers have been going missing recently so the PCs, who have been tasked(either hired or being petty criminals on community service) with going with a sewerjack to try and figure out what the problem is. With it turning out a bogtopus has found it's way in.

But I don't know how to fill out the rest of the sewers with interesting things. Is there anything but combat encounters?

>>54247307
Hmm...depending on the city, the deeper sewers could be dwarf work and hide all kinds of riddles and rewards.

You could find cults, sympathetic mutants, gambling dens, bizarre underground heretic theater productions staring beastmen and grobi.

>>54247343
cool, thanks anon. Those are some good ideas

With 8e/9A rules, are 3 chaos trolls and 5 chaos knights enough per unit or do I need to get more to fatten up those units?

>le ebin 6 million ratmen

WHERE ARE THE HIGH ELVES CA. NO ONE CARES ABOUT RATNIGGERS

>>54247768
Skaven are the best, get out elf faggot.

>>54247826
fuck off reddit rat.

>>54247768
>>54247826
>Two people posting
>Too much for /wfbg/

Fucking Australians.

>>54247741
I think that is a Verminlord.

>>54247307
If it's a one-shot, go nuts with it. Full on cult shenanigans, with nutjobs worshipping the bogtapus and making sacrifices to it.

Fuck it, let's ŕun with this. These guys aren't worshipping for funzies - the bogtopus is dishing out dirt on these noble cultists political rivals, which is helping the cultists get into positions of power.

It turns out it isn't a bogtopus at all, but a semi-cognizant chaos spawn - a former priest who still remembers all the confessions he took over his time.

Your players aren't random sewerjacks - they are former quasi-nobility that have had their families name and wealth squandered and dragged through the mud, forced into subsistence labouring to survive.

>1ed Enemy Within
>Karl Franz
>wrong

Hell no.

He just ain't racist you /pol/tards! He just firmly belives in the suffrage of chaos mutants like his only heir .

Otherwise he is simply resonable ruler of fantasy-XVI-century Germoney that gets murdered like a weak fool by Empire-wide conspieracy that throws country into a civil war to facilitate Chaos takeover .

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>>54249464
By Sigmar no!

>>54249492
But seriously he's more of a tragic figure that tries to save the Empire and plays right into hands of (((certain individuals))) .

>>54249464
>>54249580
>[Spoilers]Using spoilers to hide what happens in a thirty year old campaign that is the best story that WFRP ever produced. [/Spoilers]

Bless your cotton socks.

>>54246427
>Have you played fantasy before?
I have not.
Warriors of Chaos look cool though.

>>54250143
hey you can't paint woc wrong, always heaps of em on ebay too anon.

>>54243033
>40kid here, how do you guys do it?
You mean talking about dead game? Well not really good, thread is dead too.

>>54247307
I did this very thing as the opening to my last campaign, only the sewer macguffin wasn't a bog octopus. PCs were a gong shovelling detail in Nuln dragooned to help the local jacks and a dwarf engineer find and clear whatever was causing the sewers to back up. It turned out to be a criminal gang working with a Nurgle cult, and the PCs crossed paths with the skaven, who were interested in cheese-ratting away an artifact from the Nurglites. The PCs unwittingly led said skaven to the Nurgle cult, which ultimately resulted in a three-way-battle.

But as to things I put in the sewers...the obvious one was giant rats, no points there. Signs of old skaven cheese-rattery to make the PCs nervous (have the sewer jacks euphemistically refer to these as "tall one leavings" and refuse to elaborate). Explosive gas pockets, criminal gangs using smuggler routes, mutant colonies...the sewers in a big city can have a lot of dangerous stuff.

One thing I had was a hidden dwarf-built never-finished bugout bunker, long-forgotten and well-hidden due to rune magic., built as a fallback for the city's elite in the event of a successful invasion. I tried to emphasize the dwarfen influence on the sewers in general, with their portions being larger and sturdier, with details like dwarfen ancestor faces carved into the walls.

>>54247741
Is that a Verminlord?

>>54251009
Cubicle will print WHFRP 4th edition somewhere next year. So certainly not dead, as most of us is here for RPG.

They will put out their AoS RPG soon after. Think about it- maybe your game finally gets some seriously needed worldbuilding.

How about we stay happy about it in our own Generals?

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>>54247854
Fucking deal with it, elf autist.

>>54243033
We're here for the setting more than the wargame, by and large.

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>>54243205
Looks nice.

>>54243033
I play at my local gaming club and not my LGS. We got plenty of people playing 8e.

>>54243033
Well I have Mordheim club, but the WFB and 40k are not played there. Just Specialist Games and Kill Team.

I'm here for the RPG.

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>>54251343
thanks anon, I've done up heaps tonight. pic related

>>54251510
so you can retexture engines in the game eh?

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>>54251528
yeah, haven't figured out how to make it not a global overwrite for all emp cannons just yet, but it's a good start.

Hey /WFG/, I'm going to GM a WFRP 2nd ed. one-shot (actually my first time as a GM) and I'm looking for feedback on what I intend to do:

The PCs are stuck in a small village (let’s call it A) at the onset of winter. Travel is dangerous, they have no horses, are down to their last money and the innkeeper is starting to look at them funny.
Cue Viktor, a just arrived Witch-Hunter: he's transporting a holy icon of Sigmar, and he needs to bring the icon at a fishing village two days away (let’s call it B), where some associates of his are waiting with a boat.
The roads are dangerous and muddy, he’s driving a closed carriage and he wouldn’t mind some henchmen. Viktor is going to be extremely “un-witchhuntery”, being shifty, frail, not imperious at all, etc.
The PCs will be either lured by the money or commanded by Viktor, who will insist to get on the road right away (it’s around midday). With the late start, of course the party doesn’t reach the fortified inn midway between village A and B before sunset.

(cont.)

>>54251752
As they’re looking for a place to camp, they’ll come across a small band of Ungors eating what remains of a traveller: they’ll have to fight. Viktor will be very unsettled, muttering something like “Oh shit, didn’t think that they were already on the trail”. He’ll also prove to be quite useless in a fight.
After the fight, after the PCs had time to set camp and relax a bit, they’ll hear something moving in the woods around them. I’ll try to make them panic a bit, but the source of the noise will be revealed to be Arno, a young priest of Sigmar, traveling to village B to take the position of the deceased local priest.
He’ll tell the PCs that he came to village A right after they departed, got wind of their travels from the innkeeper, and rode hard through the evening to reach them, for the added protection of traveling with companions. His horse isn’t tired at all, and Viktor didn’t talk about the destination where the innkeeper could hear him. Also, Arno’s features are physically perfect (rosy cheeks, supple flesh, sparkling eyes, etc.), but he exudes a subtle but very persistent stink of rot. Viktor is extremely wary and unwelcoming.
The next day they break camp, and by midday arrive at the fortified inn. They stop for refreshments, and the innkeeper will make them lose some time by fawning over Viktor and Arno.
Just as they decide to hit the road again, they’ll hear Beastmen horns coming from the woods. They can decide to make a stand (fortified position, the innkeeper, his son and a couple of guards are here), or they can decide to try and sneak away. Viktor will be for getting the hell out there, while Arno will insist that they stay and fight.

(cont.)

>>54251771
If they actually fight (either by staying or not evading the bands roaming the woods), I’d like to use Gors, but it’ll depend on how it went with the Ungors.
Whatever happens (short of a TPK), they’ll get back on the road to reach village B. They’ll find signs of Beastmen presence, but no actual Beastmen. They’ll make good time, and by sunset they’re almost at village B. While marching, first Viktor and then Arno will discreetly approach the PCs and accuse the other of being a Chaos cultist.
Now the PCs can proceed in several ways:

A) accuse/confront Viktor
B) accuse/confront Arno
C) do nothing for the moment, and continue reaching village B as normal

(cont.)

>>54251781
A) Viktor will try to deny. If the PCs press the issue, he’ll reveal himself as a minor Chaos sorcerer, summon a demon via some sort of artifact, stun Arno with a spell and run the fuck away with his cart and the “holy icon” he’s transporting. A demon is probably too strong for a group of fresh PCs, but I plan to have stuff to help them (they can manipulate or destroy the artifact that the demon came out of, there’s going to be a fortuitous shrine of Sigmar along the way, they might try to bargain, stall or run until the summoning runs its course, worst comes to worst Arno will come back to his senses and help them with a “banishment”).
After the demon is disposed of, the PCs will be spurred by Arno to pursue Viktor (if the fact that he owes money doesn’t convince them).
When they reach village B and get to the wharf, they’ll find Viktor who, with the help of a couple associates (regular guys) is loading the crate with the icon inside on a boat.
Just as they are about to confront them, the village’s alarm bell will start ringing, and horns will be heard sounding from the forest: a Beastmen attack (which purpose is mainly keeping the militia and regular peasants away from Viktor, Arno and the PCs). Arno will then reveal himself to be another Chaos sorcerer, and start duking it out with Viktor.

>>54251800
B) Arno will try to deny. If the PCs press the issue, he’ll reveal himself as a Chaos cultist, summon a demon via some sort of artifact, stun Viktor with a spell and run the fuck away. The demon fight is as above.
When they reach village B, Viktor will see the carriage to the wharf so his associates can start unloading, and will then propose to go to a tavern and have a drink to celebrate the icon’s safe arrival. While drinking he’ll try to slip away and run to the wharf, as to set sail and avoid paying the PCs. During the chase the Beastmen will move against the village as above, delaying Viktor is there’s need. Viktor will then be attacked by Arno, who actually followed the party, and will reveal himself to be another Chaos sorcerer.

C) They reach village B, and Viktor will propose a toast and then try to run as above. The difference is that he’ll be reached by the PCs, summon the demon and try to escape. Arno will then reveal himself and, ignoring the demon, he’ll pursue Viktor. When the PCs get rid of the demon, they’ll find them fighting at the wharf. Somewhere before the Beastmen attack has started as above.

Whatever situation the PCs find themselves in, they can try to fight one or both sorcerers, or get the hell away with the waiting boat, maybe grabbing the icon at the same time. They might even try to help the militia drive back the Beastmen (they’ll be faced with a really big warband: neither the militia or the PCs have any hope of repelling them).

Ideally I want this to finish with the PCs on the boat, musing on the unpredictability and viciousness of the Beastmen, the pervasiveness and sneakiness of Chaos cults and, most importantly, what to do with the holy icon (in reality a dark artifact revered by the Beastmen).

>>54251815
The “backstory”: local Beastmen tribes are locked in ferocious intercine warfare (of course, no Imperial knows this). Viktor, member of a minor Chaos cult, decides now it’s the time to steal one of their sacred artifacts. He manages it, but the precautions he took to fool the Beastmen didn’t hold for long, and the Beastmen are soon on his trail. At the same time, a rival cult, of which Arno is a member, gets wind of the whole operation, decides to get the artifact and sends agents for the purpose. Arno is the “lucky” one that stumble on Viktor’s trail.

Any feedback is appreciated, but I especially need ideas on how to make Arno and Viktor sufficiently suspicious in the eyes of the players (who know little of the setting), without giving them away.

Also, sorry for the wall of text, it sounded shorter in my head.

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>>54251752
>>54251771
>>54251781
>>54251800
>>54251815
>>54251833

>>54251833
Overall- nice.

>>54251867
Constructive, thank you, I'll keep that close to my heart.

>>54251883
Ok, thanks.

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>>54251752
>>54251771
>>54251781
>>54251800
>>54251815

It's a neat little quest, and judging by the challenges you've set up for the PCs, I'm guessing they're "fresh fish" newgens with the free advance and that's it.

A daemon is certainly going to be deadly to them unless they get lucky and roll something like a shield-breaker or similar butt-kicker among their ranks. One thing I'd be wary of is that the PCs might be suspicious of Viktor and refuse him, or even agree to help him and then attempt to murder him (either to get away or steal his possessions). If there's a demihuman in the party like a dwarf or an elf, I think the case for resistance on their part becomes higher.

I would absolutely avoid saying that Arno smells like rot, since that'd be a dead giveaway and even the most un-metagamey PCs are going to have difficulty treating him with the trust his station ostensibly deserves (which might not be much if your party are Ulricans!). The other hints and a persistent strong, 'sour' smell might be more than enough.

You might also have hints concerning the two sorcerers where they don't seem able to agree on issues of faith or authority in a god they supposedly both serve, and have one or both do things that are out of keeping with a pious Sigmarite. Perhaps Viktor's uniform doesn't sit well on his frame? Just some ideas.

>>54251510
That looks fab. More posts please!

>>54251926
>It's a neat little quest, and judging by the challenges you've set up for the PCs, I'm guessing they're "fresh fish" newgens with the free advance and that's it.
Thanks, and yeah, the PCs are going to be fresh meat (as will I, admittedly).

>demon
I plan the encounter with the demon to be not exactly straight combat. He'll toy with them, he's open to bargaining and the PCs can either mess with the artifact it was summoned out of or run to the shrine of Sigmar that will fortuitously be there. It won't go straight for murdering the fuck outta them.

>the PCs might be suspicious of Viktor and refuse him, or even agree to help him and then attempt to murder him
I've already played with the people I'm going to GM for, and they didn't strike me as that disruptive.
That said, I'll think a backup plan for that situation.

>Arno
Good point, thanks.

>Just some ideas.
Thank you.

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>>54251833
Perhaps have the two have some obvious-if-not-hidden mutations which they hide through some suspicious choice of clothing or manners. Things such as a tentacle instead of a right arm hidden in an long sleeve which non the less squirms in a very non-bony way.
They could also have some less than obvious but somewhat eery mutations such as a mouth that's just a little bit bigger than what one would normally think being within the possible size-variation amongst humans. Extra points if the fella never smiles due to his mouth being filled with row after row of shark teeth.

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>>54251971
thanks anon, working on making the 'bloated corpse' unit atm, ie explodes on death, here is some deck gunners tho
on more wfb notes, is there really no other official info on vampire coast other than the warhammer worlds army list?

>>54252124
Mmmh, that might be a tad too obvious, I'll have to be careful.
The mutation idea might come in handy if the PCs decide to search/strip one of the two guys, though. Or maybe I could have only the witch-hunter be really suspicious (using your suggestions), as to reduce the probability of the PCs not trusting either guy and confronting/murdering both.

>>54252157
>explodes on death
how are you going to go about making that?
Any particular model you are using?

>>54251924

I'm reading it but it was a massive wall of text.

>>54246248
They realized it then shat all over it when WF became ET.

>>54252351
Yeah, I know man, it sounded shorter inside my head.

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>>54252254
yeah in the king and the warlord there was some unfinished squig units partially implemented. but not included. just had to finish the tables/shit and look what we have.

it works btw, pic related

>>54252510
Holy shit can you restore the units?

>>54252607
some guy already has it seems. so I won't steal his mod.

here anon search for
"'Splodin Squigs" on the workshop

>>54246248
Actually the 1st edition WHFRP is really a paradise compared to 2nd. The treat looms- but your valiant heroes defeat it. 2nd ed. Empire is a big post-SoC refugee camp.

>>54246248

God I hate that term, grimdark is the worst thing 40K has ever done.

Just use dystopian.

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What would be some appearances Alluminas might take?

Need to know for a player who follows him getting a vision from him.

>>54252737
It's in a bad shape but still the future is pretty bright all things considered.

Archaon just got his Everchosen ass handed to him on an Ork platter and Franz finishes up wiping out whatever remains of Chaos in the more civilized areas of the Empire, and overall Chaos just suffered its worst defeat since the High Elven days.

It's nice compared to 1e's "chaos will always win and there's nothing you can do about it" concept that GW abandoned for the better "eh who knows what'll happen" concept that they abandoned again for End Time's "chaos will always win and there's nothing you can do about it" junk.

2e is the best system for both gameplay and fluff desu.

>>54253102
I beg to disagree.

1st ed is full of comfy wackery (Eureka scenario anyone) and humor. Chaos got subtle to the point that most folks don't believe in it (at last if they don't live next to forest) and legalisation of mutants as full citizens is totally plausible- most players wil even be sympathetic towards it!

Technology develops, medicne, chemistry and magic grow better with every day.

And somwhere there are other beings that fell on the wastes, including Chaos Gods of Order, that may force thing to stalemate and beyond.

Post-Everchosen everything is raided, everyone is poor, magic is a suicide, there is no druids and Valten is a boring cunt .

>>54253332
>Chaos Gods of Order

I do miss them a lot but I like to think they never stopped being canon at least until Fantasy died and End Times took over its corpse, but then again End Times suck and isn't WHF canon to begin with. Age of Sigmar get out.

I do like to include the Gods of Order in my Fantasy games though. They were a really nice addition and I wish they'd been expanded on more.

>>54253056
Alluminas in particular is my favorite.

>>54253332
>there is no druids

Someone didn't read about the hedgewise.

>>54246271
I like the version in Drachenfel, aging yet decent man.

>>54253102
>It's nice compared to 1e's "chaos will always win and there's nothing you can do about it" concept that GW abandoned

But they never abandoned it.

>>54254158
So:

1st. ed:

Drachenfels- nice, resonalbe guy
Gortek & Felix- evil opressor hur dur muh yo don't elect kangz en shieet, believe me
The Enemy Within- old man who loses against the tide trying to save Empire from civil war and failing because he is manipulated

Overall, good guy if kinda gulible in the end, you can connect it into a interesting character if you understand that Felix Jager- pampered rich kid turned revolutionaire- is not a realible source of information.

2nd ed.:

Varies inconsistiently form ,,cruel bastard, hated Valten" to ,,muh glorious leader of good"

>>54255047
>Gortek & Felix- evil opressor hur dur muh yo don't elect kangz en shieet, believe me

I don't remember K-F-C appearing in the William King era G&F books at all.

>>54255279
The first book starts when Felix is on the run from Knights Panther and he badmouths our favourite ruler a bit IIRC.

>>54255301
Oh, I ignored him, he's basically the equivalent of an antifa chimp at that point in the story.

Though the window tax riots were legit, as riots go.

>>54255301, >>54255365
Ironically, as the kind of Emperor he is Karl Franz would have fairly limited control over taxes outside his home province.
The Kaiser of the HRE was not an Emperor as an absolute dictator like most people think of, and in many cases was barely even THERE politically, and with the exception of cutting down the number of Electors to only Counts (rather then important city-mayors and later special interest groups, those still get some representation in the setting) and only a relatively sane number the Empire in Warhammer has a nearly identical political system.

One of the reasons The Empire is such a mess is BECAUSE for legal purposes it's really something like twelve separate countries ruled by twelve separate rulers ruled by a man who's legal political power has a hard cap and his practical power is limited only by what favors he can do for people.

>>54255533
Assuming that Karl Franz had all the legal powers of the real life Kaisers what COULD he do then?

>>54255533
Those riots were at Altdorf, so it would be right at heart of his domain.

>>54255598
Rule Bohemia in rare periods he does not have to pillage it for heresy and mutiny.

>>54255598
He could enforce laws passed, though by necessity this delegated on a regional basis.
He could propose and approve new laws and proclaim them and held veto power, but any and all taxes would need to be approved by the Electors.
He would be the highest court authority in the Empire.
He could represent the Empire abroad though this is less important in the Old World due to far fewer neighboring nations. The Kaiser could only declare full scale war in a limited fashion.
He would be the highest feudal authority so basically he made the most money, obviously.

>>54255638
Where do you suppose the Bohemia of the Empire is? Apparently the various provinces of the Empire have some strong basis in various historical areas of Germany, even in their local dialects.

>>54255533
What special interest groups get elector powers in the Empire?

>>54255803
The Church of Sigmar and Cult of Ulric. The Colleges of Magic too (I think?).

>>54255803
The Moot

>>54255803
The Grand Theoginen of the Church of Sigmar, though historically he has a tendency to vote right alongside the Prince of Altdorf, which means Karl Franz' family has generally been in power because they always get the one extra vote. This pisses off the Church of the White Wolf something fierce, because THEIR High Priest sure as shit doesn't get special voting privileges, so a lot of Middenlanders just see it as another way the Reiklanders ensure that the Emperor is always one of their own.
The person ruling Marienburg gets a vote, even though it's barely a real part of the Empire in many ways.
The Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic gets a vote, but they also tend to vote alongside the Prince of Altdorf. Unlike the Church of Sigmar though they do this mostly because they sort of don't give a shit most days and would really rather be left alone to work their magical studies. The Patriarch is a lot like the Emperor for wizards in that he's in charge but also not really and nobody has to or wants to listen to him sometimes without a lot of favor-pulling.
>>54255823
If I recall the Cult of Ulric gets NO vote, which the Middelanders hate because he's a significant religious minority enough to nearly be half and half with Sigmarites some days.

>>54255888
The Elder of the Moot is basically just an Elector Count who isn't really a noble in his home province legally speaking; a guy who's job it is to look out for his provincial interests.

>>54255891
>Cult of Ulric gets NO vote
Yes.

>>54255891
Ar-Ulric gets one, the Grand Theogonist and some other Sigmar fag both get one, so basically Sigmar gets two votes.

Worth noting that the Moot's representative always votes for whoever they think is most likely to win so they can go home ASAP.

>>54255365
>protesting corrupt noblemen makes you antifa
Found the Brettonian!

>>54255301
I remember the short story where he and Gotrek encountered Mannfred, and specifically the bit of in-character text accompanying it, talking about how Felix is a known agitator and you can't believe anything he writes.

>>54255925
>Ar-Ulric gets one, the Grand Theogonist and some other Sigmar fag both get one, so basically Sigmar gets two votes.
How is that shit fair?

>>54255975
Traditionally in history election systems are not about being "fair" as a point of fact, but about finding legal reasons to either secure power or prevent other groups from getting power from you.
This includes the American system; Congress was actually designed to be angry and argumentative and get nothing done so that the Senate and President and Judiciary could actually rule the country, so when it fails at everything it tries Congress is really just fulfilling it's intended purpose as designed by the guys who created the American constitution.

>>54256011
The Senate is part of Congress thorough I thought? Sorry, not an American.

>>54256071
Technically yes, but generally when Americans refer to Congress they refer to Congressmen who are only in the House of Representatives and not the Senate, who are always referred to as Senators.
I'm not American either most days actually.

>Vlad bullies W'soran in Lahmia for being a nerd
>ages later in Sylvania Melkhior teaches Mannfred epic magic skillz, soon after Vlad gets mysteriously betrayed and dies

Coincidence?

>>54255925
It's worse than that actually, Ar-Ulric gets just one vote, while the Sigmarites get three, one for the Grand Theogonist and two more for the Arch Lectors.

Cloud of Horror against High Elves

Actually gives them ASL or just negates their ASF?

>>54256461

I would say gives them ASL, ASF only says 'regardless of initiative', it does not say regardless of other factors.

>>54256412
Melkhior betrayed W'soran, so probably. Cuckfred von Carstein was just a piece of shit.

>>54256071
'Congress' colloquially refers to members of the House of Reps. It's much harder to get elected to the Senate, and we always distinguish Senators from Reps. Technically, though, both are houses of Congress.

>>54254300

Once they started expanding on the other Gods they did, which coincided a lot of character rewrites so folks like Franz were no longer bumbling idiots.

>>54256645
No, they didn't. In fact, the other gods were mentioned to be the first victims of Chaos's certain victory. You are the bumbling idiot.

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>>54256696

Go back to /aosg/, Carney.

>>54253102
>Franz finishes up wiping out whatever remains of Chaos in the more civilized areas of the Empire, and overall Chaos just suffered its worst defeat since the High Elven days.

No, Archaon was still in the Brass Citadel with the reminder of his horde. There is to statement as far as I know that says Franz dislodged them. So there is a big Chaos presence in the Empire.

>>54256730
Not an argument.

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>Chaos Gods of Order

Do I even have to say it?

Lies and non-existence

>>54256730
>>54256745
>mfw responding to a carnacposter

Archaon retreated to the Brass Keep but it's never said who he brought with him, or even if he brought anyone with him at all. He was beaten by Grimgor, retreated, then fled when he figured either Grimgor or Karl would come after him. Karl marched through to Middenland and anything Chaos that wasn't killed immediately fled from him, and then Boris went out into the Drakwald and is said to have destroyed the remaining bulk of the Chaos horde with the Knights Panther. All that remains of any kind of truly organized presence of Archaon's horde is the Beastmen in the Drakwald and the Skaven under Middenheim (which if you take the adventure modules of 2e as fluff the Skaven are destroyed and their a-bomb plot foiled). Otherwise only straggling warriors or deserters are still left in the mainland Empire and Archaon's hidden in the Brass Keep with a mix of fury at the Forces of Order for their victory, hatred of Grimgor for his treachery and for giving him the krump in front of his men, and fear that the Chaos Gods will kill him or worse for his disastrous failure, all while Karl is attempting to keep the Elves and Dwarves happy with one another as he considers invading the Chaos North while Chaos has been severely weakened, though Grimgor still poses a threat.

I'm not an anti-Chaosfag and I'm not saying Chaos doesn't still pose a threat, but they were, factually and objectively, horrifically defeated in the Storm.

>>54256816
Is this the Brass Keep or the Brass Citadel?
Because those are actually two different things.

>>54256816
Dude, even Gav Thorpe said that Chaos Gods are not pissed at Archaon due to their incomprehensible natures and agendas . The guy who wrote the ending of SoC. Start to source your stuff.

>>54256855
Brass Keep. The castle in the empire that belonged once to Count Mordrek the Damned

>>54256855
The Brass Keep is usually speculated to be where he went, though the book itself just says he fled somewhere into the Middle Mountains after losing at Middenheim.

I don't honestly recall if it specifies the Brass Keep or not, but considering he took it during the Storm and renovated it into a stronghold it's likely that's where he hid away.

>>54256645
>Once they started expanding on the other Gods they did,

They didn't.

>>54256894
Where is the source for your shit?

>>54256866

>Gav Thorpe

You mean the Benedict Arnold who became one of the primary pushers of Fantasy getting killed off and turned into the End Times, then turning the End Times into Age of Sigmar?

Yeah, he can stick it whatever he says.

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The Tzarina's Kossars to the Everchosen!

O Never-Chosen, ruinous daemon and damned daemon's kith and kin, scribe to Tzeentch himself. What kind of champion are thou, that canst not slay a snotling with your naked arse? Nurgle shits, and your army eats. Thou shalt not, thou son of a whore, make subjects of Kislev's sons; we have no fear of your horde, by land and by sea we will battle with thee, fuck thy mother.

Thou Norscan scullion, Kurgan wheelwright, brewer of Bretonnia, goat-fucker of the Eastern Steppe, swineherd of man-beasts, pig of the North, Strigany thief, catamite of Slaanesh, hangman of Sylvania, and fool of all the Old World and New, an idiot before Dazh, grandson of the Ruinous Powers, and the crick in our dick. Goblin's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, mutated brow, screw thine own mother!

So the Kossars declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for Kislev. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; Mannslieb's in the sky, the year with the Tzarina, the day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse!

So, in WFRP 2e, when you change to advanced careers do you like...actually get that JOB description?
Like do you become an actual Captain in a Count's army or whatever if you become a Captain and so on? And if so, how the hell are you supposed to keep adventuring when a lot of these careers have increasingly complex responsibilities that you literally cannot take time off of?

>>54256930
He was the lead GW fantasy writer at the time and it was an interview way before the ET.

And when 8th ED and ET was written he was just a freelance BL author that GW consulted with about Elf things. Matt Ward was the guy who did all the work in ET and Elven lore. Get your facts straight, you newfag.

>>54256816
>1st edition Chaos
>Plotting, mutants are driven insane and shunned by society what brings them to the forbidden altars, cults everywhere. EVERY-FOCKING-WHERE and each of them is a potential gate for demonic incursion

>2nd ed.
>They got beaten in the field, didn't they?

I'm trolling a little here

>>54256955
Majestic.

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>>54256929
Archaon: Everchosen my nigga. Archaon was dunked by Grimgor in personal combat and then retreated, then fled when he heard of Karl coming to dish out Sigmarite vengeance.

>>54256866
>>54256930
Whether or not Gay "I Helped Ruin What You Love" Thorpe said that or not and whether or not it's credible for fluff doesn't actually matter. No matter what the Chaos gods themselves intended Archaon as the individual was scared they'd do even worse to him than Grimgor or Karl could for his total failure of an invasion after all they'd given him and all the stock they'd placed on him.

>>54256897
Ok. I guess Tzeench was worried Arianka could beat him and Solkan could slaughter him for nothing. I guess Slaanesh's fear and revulsion of Khaine and the bigass scar he got from him meant nothing at all. I guess it was all just for funsie wunsies and the Chaos gods only lost when they felt too bored to win

Carnac.

>>54257000
>Ok. I guess Tzeench was worried Arianka could beat him and Solkan could slaughter him for nothing.

This was never canon you dumbshit.

>I guess Slaanesh's fear and revulsion of Khaine and the bigass scar he got

Khaine did scar Slaanesh, but so what? That's no implication that Chaos was going to lose. It's also from 8e.

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You know what no one talks about when SoC discussions come up? In terms of badassery and Warhammer awesomeness?

The fact that during all of this the Helves were roaming the Sea of Claws and its coasts massacreing untold thousands of Norscan warriors bound for the south to reinforce Archaon, and then destroying their war encampments themselves.

The misanthropic arctic vikings were legitimately too scared to go out on their longboats to pillage and rape because the White Mist was out there and it had no mercy for them.

Elves on the sea, man, Elves on the fucking sea.

>>54257000
>Archaon: Everchosen my nigga. Archaon was dunked by Grimgor in personal combat and then retreated, then fled when he heard of Karl coming to dish out Sigmarite vengeance.

What the heck is this drivel?

>Whether or not Gay "I Helped Ruin What You Love" Thorpe said that or not and whether or not it's credible for fluff doesn't actually matter. No matter what the Chaos gods themselves intended Archaon as the individual was scared they'd do even worse to him than Grimgor or Karl could for his total failure of an invasion after all they'd given him and all the stock they'd placed on him.

You got no source for what you saying? I guess that makes you a liar.

And by the way, All Gav did was have talk with Rick-P about the Elf Pantheon and how it makes no sense for them to worship Slaanesh. That's the full extent of his involvement.

>Solkan

Doesn't exist. He is a lie.

>I guess Slaanesh's fear and revulsion of Khaine and the bigass scar

8th ED lore but anyways Slaanesh doesn't fear Khaine. Slaanesh smashed Khaine so hard that he fell into the Mortal plane with such force that he rebounded and reverted to be a mere mortal. Later he died and became a spirit but no before assassinating Asuryan.

>>54257042

>This was never canon you dumbshit.

Old fluff's subjective as shit dude, and it was never said to not be canon. It just didn't get finished because GW lost the rights to use Malal and Malal was central to the story.

> It's also from 8e.

8e prior to the End Times. The fluff didn't start getting full-retconned until the End Times supplements came out four years later. Sure a lot of 8ed is pretty iffy, but it was still Warhammer Fantasy and not Age of Sigmar for the majority of its lifetime.

>>54257000
Didn't they actually tone down Solkan and company because of Morecook threatening them with his lawyer 's morecock right up their arse ?

I mean it's bad writting, but I think that they were actually actively removing everything that could opose Ruinous Powers and thus paved the way for abortion of ET.

>>54257101
>Slaanesh doesn't fear Khaine. Slaanesh smashed Khaine so hard that he fell into the Mortal plane with such force that he rebounded and reverted to be a mere mortal. Later he died and became a spirit but no before assassinating Asuryan.

This is /wfg/ and you're literally talking about End Times-to-Age of Sigmar lore that retconned everything that happened beforehand.

Go home, Carney. We all see through the ruse.

>>54257113
Dude, you are the worse. Lets me translate what you just said.

"I am bullshitting like crazy because I am an autistic spaz".

>>54257113
>Old fluff's subjective as shit dude, and it was never said to not be canon.

It's not canon, it was never published by GW. Plain and simple.

>8e prior to the End Times.

8e is the very same as the end times you stupid cunt, it even had set up for the End Times in the form of Mannfred capturing the Everchild.

>>54256778
Everything after 5e is fanfiction.

>>54257154
Except It's 8th ED lore that you mentioned first. So stop bringing up 8th ED lore if you don't want it to be discussed.

And still no source.

>>54257134
One word. No.

Solkan was never important. I mean he doesn't even exist lol.

>>54257163
Wait, are you claiming that Chaos Gods of Order don't exist (in latter editions it seems so) and also never were canon?

Man. I'm disapointed.

>>54257134
I don't think Moorcock ever threatened them, I'm not sure on that. I do know the story of Tzeentch imprisoning Arianka by a treachery scheme, Solkan trying to rescue her, and Malal trying to fuck them both over involved, well, Malal, very heavily, and when he couldn't legally appear in any more stories it got abandoned.

I miss Malal.

The whole "remove anything that could stop the ruinous powers" didn't really start until 2013 or so, then it went into full swing when ET replaced WHF.

Granted there are signs of it before though. Malal being gone is the most obvious one and while that was out of Geedubs' control, them no longer talking about the Gods of Order was definitely a problem even if they never outright un-canonized them.

That is until they decided that the fans suck and if you liked the lore you're stupid so they took a fat shit over all of it, including having Belacuck tell the readers that the Gods of Order never existed and Chaos had no rivals colon-three ex-dee nothing personnel.

I'll never not be butthurt over it.

>>54256816
Something that I miss about the post-SoC Warhammer world was the idea that there could still be Chaos Warriors lurking in the Empire in forgotten corners, unable to go back north and waiting to continue the war.

>>54257208
No, he is claiming that your drivel about them is not canon and never printed in any GW paper. You stupid mofo.

>>54257195
>Solkan was never important. I mean he doesn't even exist lol.

Damned WHFB chaosfag in denial.

>>54256894
WFRP 2e's corebook states he's hiding in Brass Keep.

>>54257229
You are talking to two peolpe. I understand that you could miss that.

You utter cunt

>>54257163
>>54257195
The End Times didn't start until 2014. That's 4 years of non-ET lore. It had a few setups but it wasn't the retcon-tastic fluffdestroyer that ET was, so some of it can still fit in.

Also
>it was never published by GW. Plain and simple

Several WHFRP supplements were not directly published by GW but were still held by many as canon. That's like saying all those novels and stories in Star Wars weren't canon because George Lucas didn't publish them.

>>54257156
>im gonna type an incoherent sperging post to tell you that your incoherent sperging post is dumb because i disagree with it

>>54257208
>Man. I'm disapointed.

Welcome to the End Times. There's a reason we don't discuss it here because it isn't Fantasy canon or fluff, it's on a whole different timeline.

Some people still like using it and Belakor in their arguments though, sadly.

>>54257208
>Wait, are you claiming that Chaos Gods of Order don't exist (in latter editions it seems so) and also never were canon?

Listen up faggot, first of all they were called the Law Gods, not the Chaos Gods of Order. Secondly while they did exist they barely existed and had nothing to do with Tzeentch outside of unpublished fanfiction.

>>54257242
Ah, I was gonna go check the core book for it. Thanks.

>>54257274
>It had a few setups but it wasn't the retcon-tastic fluffdestroyer

What about the Elves being doomed to be eaten by Slaanesh?

>>54257274
>Also
>>it was never published by GW. Plain and simple
>Several WHFRP supplements were not directly published by GW but were still held by many as canon. That's like saying all those novels and stories in Star Wars weren't canon because George Lucas didn't publish them.


Chaos Gods of Order are mainly mentioned in GW published papers- like damned 1st ed WHFRP rulebook.

>>54257310

8th was a weird time, weird for its weird gameplay changes and weirder for its fluff, a lot of which was gearing towards End Times. Still some of it wasn't particularly awful, and not all of it directly related to the End Times. The Khaine incident a lot of anons bring up is, I think and I may be wrong, before the End Times began where Khaine gets fed up with Slaanesh and bitchslaps him. It isn't until End Times that Khaine dies along with everything else.

>>54257274
>That's like saying all those novels and stories in Star Wars weren't canon because George Lucas didn't publish them.

We they weren't, they were given a low tierer in his canon hiearchy. Stuff is only canon if the fluff publisher says it is. GW never said this particular piece of unpublished fanfiction was canon.

>>54257328

They also had an outside writer do a supplement of religion, focusing on the non-evil gods, and he included some stuff about the Law Gods too. It's where we get a lot of info about Solkan from.

I just don't understand how even a huge chaoslover could say that anything not directly written and published by GW is fanfiction.

>>54257274
> It had a few setups but it wasn't the retcon-tastic fluffdestroyer that ET was

What a newfag. The Elven books literally retocconed everything ans set up the End Times storyline in tandem with the VC book. Sigmar's Blood was the final push.

Oh god. You are a special one.

>Several WHFRP supplements were not directly published by GW but were still held by many as canon. That's like saying all those novels and stories in Star Wars weren't canon because George Lucas didn't publish them.

He is saying that what you wrote was never in any supplement or anything ever licensed by GW.

>>im gonna type an incoherent sperging post to tell you that your incoherent sperging post is dumb because i disagree with it

>makes a claim
>Get asked for a source or confirmation
>LOL LORE IS SUBJECTIVE I MAKE MORE CLAIMS

You iz dumb. Fantasyfags this guy makes you look bad. Kick him out.

>>54257310
They did still have some hope of getting taken by their own underworld goddess, whatever her name was. Still kind of weird, especially with the change of design of daemonettes that most people assume was because it made them look less elven.

>>54257337
>I think and I may be wrong

You are. Khaine at no point bitchslaps Slaanesh.

>>54257364

>iz

Now we observe that, knowing that /wfg/ has caught on to his survival mechanism of referring to opposing users as posers, the wild Carnac now adapts hastily to a new strategem, using 'z' in place of 's'. Whether this is an evolutionary tactic that he will inherit to maintain himself in the wild, or if it merely a quick reaction to the other life around him, is yet to be determined, but it is clear the rest of the inhabitants of the /wfg/ habitat are catching on once more.

>>54257337
You are totally wrong it's utterly pathetic. Khaine at the time of the ET was just a spirit of a long dead guy looking for a perfect host.

>>54257404
Youz a racist. Hating on Orc speech.

And notice that there is no argument or attempt of giving a source. What are you afraid of?

>>54257375

Slaanesh is left with an enormous scar and Khaine is doing fine. I don't remember if this is from 8e or not. I'll trawl my books later but I can't even find the specific event on 1d4chan or non-End Times wikia entries, only the mention of Slaanesh having a horrible scar from Khaine.

>>54257440
>1d4chan or non-End Times wikia entries,

That explains everything.

>>54257364
>Fantasyfags

Well, for what fucking sake you are there?

Kys or better- go back to your own general.

>>54257454
They're not bad for looking up stuff quick. Going through 27 years of background info isn't easy.

>>54257476
It's Carnac, man. He's a shitposter who's either head over heels for Chaos or a troll or both who's been doing this crap on the Fantasy general for over a year.

>>54257476
Not an argument again. I am a consoeur of warhams lore with no bias. I was offended by this guy's bias and distortion of the facts.

>>54257480
Given your bad knowledge about the lore and bullshit, It's a bad thing. It turned you into a walking cancer.

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As much as I dislike ET for ending Fantasy as we know it, I have to admit the Lizardmen went out like fucking badasses.

Stopping the moon from hitting the world, fighting daemons left and right, basically killing 1 in 4 Skaven in existence. And that'd be enough right there, but on top of that, a large number of them FLY AWAY in a bunch of old buildings that just happened to be spaceships.

>>54257440
>Slaanesh is left with an enormous scar and Khaine is doing fine.

Nope. Khaine was cast into the mortal world. Just like the End TImes.

>I don't remember if this is from 8e or not.

It is, specifically the Wood Elf armybook.

>>54257587
>The Lizardmen didn't bother to stack food or have any stasis technology for their long trip.
>The Lizardmen all died, except for the Slaan who are left alone to soak in their grief

lawl stupid lizards.

So, /wfbg/ers, the Firmir - worth using in a game, or 2edgy4me bullshit?

>>54257587
>lizards go out and find the old ones
>"holy shit the old ones"
>"oh it's you again why are you out here in space"
>"gw sucks and chaos are being faggots"
>"what"
>"yeah they destroyed the world again"
>"alright enough of this silly shit"
>the gloves come off and the old ones head back to endtimesworld and blow the everloving fuck out of the chaos gods and send them crying home to the warp for all eternity
>"thanks old ones you saved us"
>"yeah we did but remember love conquers all"
>gi joe

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>>54257587
I did find the scene where Lord Mazdamundi tries his hardest to hold back the moon even as all the other Slann die, and as he's dying attempt to get outside the temple and feel fresh air on his skin or something, very powerfully moving. And then Kroak lifting up his dead hand and doing what pretty much all the living Slann could not was badass.

Sometimes End Times did really hit the mark on making long-time fans of the setting feel...and sometimes it bent itself into knots trying to explain how things ended up at the exact opposite conclusion anyone could have expected, and some factions went without much dignity.

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>>54257728
They're worth using, I think. You don't even have to bring up the edgy parts of their fluff, and whatever else you might say about their design process, they were designed to be unique and stand out as such.

>>54257775
The End Times was fine.
People only don't like it because they couldn't accept that it was time to die.

>>54257163
Arianka was in White Dwarf, published by Games Workshop.

Canon as fuck.

Or at least as canon as ot can be when the creator stated constantly that canon is for faggots.

>>54256959
Honestly, it depends a lot on your GM. Consider also that a lot of these careers can stand in for another. By the time you enter Captain, though, you should have been given opportunities to gather, well, a company.

For a lot of advanced careers, it can be assumed their masters release them on special missions, or else the game has developed so that their career is not an impediment to what they're currently doing for a living.

Really, some are probably going to never appeal to anyone but NPCs, not that the devs want to say that and discourage players.

>>54257728
Depends on how mature your players are.

>>54257828
Arianka is canon, what you attribute to her is not.
All that is canon about Arianka is that she was some bitch who got locked in a box and that Kaleb Daark was on a quest to free her.

>>54257828
>creator stated constantly that canon is for faggots.

Creator? You mean a former BL head whose quote was taken out of context? And you gotta cite the issue.

>>54257813
The End Times was the Vong/MoS of Warhammer.

>>54257854
NOT FUCKING CANON, it was retconned.

But she does exist. She gets mentioned in Total War: Warhammer.

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>>54257921
>not canon

Still Fantasy canon, just not End Times/Age of Sigmar canon, but this is a thread for Fantasy, not End Times/Age of Sigmar.

>>54257813
>The End Times was fine

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>>54257728

Bring these guys back as well.

>>54257869
The Third Citadel Compendium 1985
Citadel Journal Spring 1986
The Citadel Journal Spring 1987

Despite the name, the Citadel Journal was published by Games Workshop directly rather than through Citadel, andfalls under the White Dwarf publishing branch.

Creator being Rick fucking Priestley, who created Warhammer and put it in bold in all the early core books that there is no canon, only an example you can follow if you want.

Unless you argue death of the author, Warhammer can never have an actual canon because the creatpr indicated tjat all lore is merely a suggestion.

>>54258001
Technically not canon for any edition after 5e, not just ET era.

>>54257921
Can you not into English.

>>54258049
Can you?

>>54258006
You cited three issues. None of which says what you are saying they say. Those are just where the Quest of Kaleb Daark were published, and while it does feature Arinaka it says nothing about Tzeentch imprisioning her because he feared her or Solkan.

>put it in bold in all the early core books that there is no canon

Where?

I'm not sure why you're all arguing when the Loremaster himself said that all gods are just different manifestations of the big 4. Hell, it would make sense for Khaine to be able to cut Slaanesh when he's just Khorne by another name.

>>54258002

Where's this from?

>>54258079
Storm of Magic.

>>54258055
I can. You on the other hand missed that guy's quesion and the meaning of his post in the most baffling way.

>>54258078
>Hell, it would make sense for Khaine to be able to cut Slaanesh when he's just Khorne by another name.

When that was written, Khaine wasn't a rogue fragment of the Chaos Gods but a member of the Elven Pantheon who wore surviving Space Elves from a doomed world

>>54258097

Cheers.

>>54258119
were*

I mean the fact that the Elven Pantheon lost their divinity and became mortals once the Chaos Gods cast them to the mortal realm, should have tipped you off.

Could the Zoats be the Slann?

>>54257803
>looks like halfling
>smells like halfling
>maybe it IIIISSS Halfling?!

>>54258002
Fuck yeah, zoats. One of the few genuinely original creations for WFRP And they drop it like it was a shitty 'nid unit.

We just frogmarched the firmir into the dark beneath and use them as the primary antags down there.

There's precious little detail goven about warhammers version of the underdark

>>54258183
No. Slann are are amphibians and have four limbs.

Ok, you stupid faggot Carnac.

Arianka is named as a goddes of law imprisoned in a crystal cofin by unnamed Chaos God on the very end of the chapter 5 of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay rulebook (published by Games Workshop in 1986 and few times more up to early '00).

Goods of Law get like half a page there, more than Border Princes, third part of what Kislev gets. Chaos Gods get as much place as Law ones in the chapter.

Even if that other guy was wrong concerning Tzeench (and I can't assume it, for I only have your word for it) you are a whore who did not even read one of most basic soruces that in fact created most of the Warhammer Fantasy world.

You stupid cuck, fuck you and your powerfantasy. Yo

>>54258325

Could they be related to the Slann? Maybe a descendent?

>>54258334
You talking to two persons. The Arianka business, I have no horse in. Though, I look forward to see the other guy dissect your post.

>>54258334
>Ok, you stupid faggot Carnac.

Not Carnac, just a man who knows the fluff.

>Even if that other guy was wrong concerning Tzeench (and I can't assume it, for I only have your word for it)

He is wrong, and you can assume that, not because of what I say, but because he never gave a source. I could tell you the source, it's non-canon, but I could tell you where that idea sprang up from. Ask pretty please with sugar on top.

>who did not even read one of most basic soruces that in fact created most of the Warhammer Fantasy world.

But I did read that. I've never denied that Arianka was a Law God in a box. I've only ever refuted the rest, that she was imprisoned by Tzeentch because he feared her and Solkan.

>>54258119
Even outside of 8e's idiotic lore there's precedence that the Chaos Gods were at least wary of Khaine, and all the other gods in general. They were pretty nervous when the Helfking took Khaine's sword to come fuck em up. Khaine himself like several other gods was just neutral to Chaos. He didn't hate nor love them and may've even been Khorne's less-psycho brother.

>>54258457
>she was imprisoned by Tzeentch because he feared her and Solkan

Except this is true. It was in White Dwarf. Tzeentch feared Arianka would ruin the plans of Chaos and was equally fearful that Solkan, who was Arianka's brothsband, would come after him for imprisoning her, which is why he took her keys and tossed them around the Warp and why Malal vaguely wanted to lead Solkan to Tzeentch yet vaguely wanted to fuck over Solkan yet vaguely wanted to gain a champion by having someone free Arianka while vaguely wanting to turn Arianka to his side.

No matter what way you look at it the old fluff was infinitely more interesting and complex than anything GW did after they killed Fantasy and resurrected its corpse as the End Times. Some Chaosfags don't like it because it was a time when Chaos wasn't omnipotent.

>>54258509
>Except this is true. It was in White Dwarf.

Prove it.

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>>54258509
Funny that you can't give the guy some source or anything.

Anyways...

>mfw when somebody mentions Solkan

>>54258460
>They were pretty nervous when the Helfking took Khaine's sword to come fuck em up.

No they weren't. Aenarion never posed any threat to them,

>>54258457
>I've never denied that Arianka was a Law God

>>54257854
>All that is canon about Arianka is that she was some bitch who got locked in a box


That's moving the goalpost if I ever saw one.

>>54258558
>>54258577
>provide the white dwarf link
>mfw it was in the mid 90s and white dwarf isnt around anymore

also >belakor

If you guys want to identify Carnac, just look for Belakor. Some people ironically post him, but only Carnac comes into /wfg/ touting how awesome is AoS Mary Sue is.

>>54258598
How is that moving the goal posts? Bitch is a common form of referral to a female you don't care about. Referring to her as a bitch is not denying she was a Law God.

>>54256412
Who was Vlad back on the Lahmia days?

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>>54258600
>mfw when based'kor triggers some degenerate anon

Anyho...

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tx4hcy4u487pv/WD

This is a trove of WDs from 0 to the last weekly WD. Feel free to give us what WD you were referring to. We can wait.

>>54258579

Ah, of course. That's why they dispatched their Greater Daemons, personal aspects of the Gods that require a huge power investment to create, the leaders of their armies, and the most powerful Daemons in existence, to stop him.

Four of them. Four Greater Daemons.

They didn't view Aenarion as a threat all.

>>54258600
Why did you bother replying if you still can't supply proof?
Give me an issue number at least and I'll look through my collection.

It won't be in there though, because again, I know the actual source and I know it's not canon.

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>>54258653
Vashanesh.

He and Neferata had a falling out and she decided she hated men.

>>54258002
>bringing Zoats back as anything other than some sort of Tyranid offshoot
This is so much HERESY it transcends game boundries!

>>54258666
>four greater daemons

The best part is Aenarion didn't lose this fight.

>>54258666
Of course not, they send Greater Daemons to do shit all the time. Plus they actually sent the four Greater Daemons to stop Caledor's ritual.
Aenarion was just there to defend the mages.

>>54258701
That's a matter of perspective. He died from his wounds.

>>54258674
I'm watching this shitfest. You got me curious. What is the soruce of Tzeench involvment he claims and so on?

All I know is that old comic about Elric expy and some WHFR material.

>>54258708
>they send Greater Daemons to do shit all the time.

Those were the first Greater Daemons ever mentioned having been sent into direct combat, and yeah, they were sent to defeat Aenarion and his army to stop Caledor's ritual. They still went to fight Aenarion, and they still lost to him, and it was actually a pretty heavy loss for Chaos. A Greater Daemon is more or less a Chaos God's avatar, and to make one takes about as much power and essence as making multiple hosts of regular daemons.

>>54258701
>Mantling Asuryan AND Khaine
>plus his dragonbro
>still dies against four shards of the Chaos Gods

Ehm,...WEAKLING

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>>54258765
Not really. In the Chaos invasion, you normally see multiple Greater Daemons. In such a vast invasion like first invasion of Chaos, there must have been hundreds if not thousands of Greater Daemons around the globe.

I mean Khorne confirmed to have BILLIONS of Bloodthister's laying around at his disposal. They are disposal.

>>54258771
>slaughters an entire army's worth of daemons singlehandedly (with dragonbro) several times
>chaos gods bargaining with him to turn back because he and caledor threaten them greatly
>send their four personal avatars and most powerful servants ever created to fight off this mortal helf
>he kills all four but dies because khaine cursed him to die from his injuries

Pretty badass.

>>54258831
>I mean Khorne confirmed to have BILLIONS of Bloodthister's laying around at his disposal.

In ET/AoS canon.

>>54258765
>Those were the first Greater Daemons ever mentioned having been sent into direct combat

No they weren't.

>and yeah, they were sent to defeat Aenarion and his army to stop Caledor's ritual. They still went to fight Aenarion

No, they were there to stop Caledor. Aenarion arrived later on.

>it was actually a pretty heavy loss for Chaos.

Because Caledor drained the magic from the world with the vortex. Four Greater Daemons getting banished isn't a heavy loss.

>A Greater Daemon is more or less a Chaos God's avatar

Sure, but they're not singular beings.

>>54258841
Threatened their invasion, not them.

And he died from his injuries, not any involvement from Khaine. And again he had the essence of both deities within him. The fact that he died to destroy shards of the Chaos Gods proves how much of a weakling he was compared to the gods.

Also Be'lakor and the Lizardmen drew the bulk of the daemon hordes away from the Elves.

>>54258893
>>54258933

Provide some sources, Carna--

>bel'akor

Oh, okay then. Time to go back to ignoring your posts.

>>54258947
One of those dudes isn't Carnac. Stop being a total cowardly bitch.

>>54258947
>Provide some sources

Blood of Aenarion.

>>54258982
>8th edition
>2011 black library book

Does it at any point get boring for you, Carn?

>>54259020
>Dissing the works of William King

How does it feel to be the biggest pleb of all time?

>>54258756
Seconded.

>>54258756
>>54259148
The unpublished Realm of Divine Magic supplement for WHFRP 1e, by Ken Rolston.

>>54259177
Ah...so basically glorified fanfiction. That Gods of Law anon is really one dishonest piece of work.

>>54258947
Regarding Lizardmen, it's in their Army Book. One of the last two anyway, I can't remember which one, but it took 12 Bloodthirsters to batter their way through Kroak's defenses.

That said, I don't like to assume that all Greater Daemons are the same in power when we have FW models and stats for ones that are actually more powerful than the 'standard' ones. And it may very well have been those 'best of the best' greater daemons that the Chaos Gods sent to stop the elves.

It kinda makes sense to send quantity after the Lizardmen and quality after the Elves (not the least of which being that the Lizardmen were much much more numerous and powerful than the Elves). As much as I love my favorite army, they're not THE heroes of the setting. They are HEROIC, but they're too rigid to come up with the kind of crazy world-saving scheme that the other races do.

>>54259256
>If a piece of Warhammer fiction shows Chaos with any weakness whatsoever then it's fanfiction!!!!!

>>54259177
Hm. Thanks, I will have to look for it. I try to salvage as much as I can from old fluff for my The Enemy Within, so it can prove usefull.

I always liked the first ed. more anyway.

>>54259256
Awww, poor babby. It's OK, you can still wank to Chaos in AoSigmarines. You just have to accept wanking alongside the Space Marine fanboys who migrated over.

>>54259321
It's not a piece of warhammer. It looks like it wasn't published, licensed, or endorsed by GW. It is fanfiction.

My Be'lakor's slashfics are more canon.

>>54259256
>Ah...so basically glorified fanfiction.

Yes. Elements of that unpublished work were written in several fan magazines as well, but GW would not publish it.
What GW did publish on the Law Gods is very scanty.

>>54259321
In this case it is. Chaos is shown with weaknesses all the time. If you're just interested in shitting on Chaos then maybe Age of Sigmar is more your speed.

>>54259346
Some of the Cult stuff is interesting enough, but the whole Earth Mother shit is completely divorced from anything before or since.

>>54259350
Dude, AoS gets its ass kicked all the time in AoS. Nurgle himself was actually wounded by a Stormcast Eternal which is something that would never have happened in WHFB.

>>54259379
>If you're just interested in shitting on Chaos then maybe Age of Sigmar is more your speed.

I'm not. I'm pretty neutral desu. I like Chaos up to Storm of Chaos, then End Times retconned and ruined it.

I do however not like the small number of Chaosfags who form a vocal minority that want Chaos to be unstoppable Evil Sues who can never lose to anyone and will always win and have no trouble killing anyone and anything. It's fucking boring and repugnant towards the other races and players of other races that GW decided to say one faction was more powerful and could never even be hindered by any of the others.

Chaos is fine and I know not all Chaosfags are on Carnac's level, but those that are are the problem.

>>54259415
Say what you will about Carnac at least he didn't try to pass fanfiction as CANON and claim for a WHOLE THREAD that it came from a WD when it didn't.

>>54259412
The one thing AoS did right was give Chaos more weaknesses and mortality that they hadn't had since before the End Times. It's nice, but it's a shame it came at the death of everything else in WHF.

>>54259363
>Material made for the RPG doesn't count because I said so!

Uh-huh.

>>54259379
Fanfiction is kinda big word. Still, so is canon. ,,Unpublished material", whlist misleading is kinda right. It's not like Hogshead's-time-WHFRP didn't have stuff like old Bretonia anyway.

>>54259415
Chaos is unstoppable, that is simply the fluff.
Why can't you accept it?

>>54259486
Because GW said so, brah. I can make material for the RPG too but it worth nothing unless GW prints it with their logo on it.

>>54259486
It doesn't count because it wasn't published.

>>54259489
>Fanfiction is kinda big word.

Not really, it's fiction about a subject that isn't canon.

>>54259510
Keep telling yourself that, Carnac.

>>54259553
Not Carnac, but how can it be canon if GW didn't publish it?
It might be even lower than fanfiction since they outright rejected it.

>>54259553
Not an argument

Once again the anti-Chaos crowd were proven to be liars and hoes. "WDS I LINKED THE WDS ITS IN THERE TRUST ME". My sides!

>>54259492
Except it isn't.

Why can't YOU accept that?

>>54258682
Is that why she has a thing with her concubine? So many lesbian vampires...

>>54259510
>Not really, it's fiction about a subject that isn't canon.

I don't know man. It was ordered by Hogshead and at last two of three guys listed on the cover were estabilished WHFRP authors.

We look on it from different points of view, as (being 1st ed. RPG player to the bone) I find more interesting what it was supposed to look than it finally looked in 7-8th ed.

But if you look for adamant Gee Dubs canon, well, you are right.

>>54259583
Unpublished material is still material made and intended for the setting.

>>54259597
>Except it isn't.

But it is, it's repeated throughout the editions that Chaos will win.

>>54259638
But rejected by the company. Cut content is not canon. Xenomorpths don't turn people into eggs.

>>54259636
>It was ordered by Hogshead and at last two of three guys listed on the cover were estabilished WHFRP authors.

And they were still rejected and not published.

>I find more interesting what it was supposed to look

It's plenty interesting, it's just not canon. That's fine, but it shouldn't be used in discussion of canon.

>>54259638
Sure, but that doesn't mean it's canon. I could write something for the setting and send it to GW, but intent doesn't matter if they decide not to publish it.

>>54259631
Neferata has always been debauched, so I imagine she had side girls all the time.

Her man-hate is strongly implied to come from Vlad betraying her, though.

>>54259703
For clarity's sake as far as I remember it was more a case of Hogshead going under- I don't even know if it before or after it was given to Gee Dubs for consulting (of course kinda not canon but still, hell- people reconstructed orginal D&D setting basing on a hex-based boardgame map it was based on, memoirs and some lousy notes).

>>54259659
The Archaon prophecy says so. WHFRP 1st ed mentions the Warp will ultimately consume and destroy everything, Chaos gods included, which is part of the Archaon prophecy, but that concept doesn't come up again anywhere else and nothing else up until End Times makes Chaos out to be unstoppable or undefeatable whatsoever.

New thread.

>>54259835
>>54259835
>>54259835

>>54259786
Ken Ralston's wikipedia page says GW rejected him.

>>54259805
>The Archaon prophecy says so.

Chaos was going to win since before Archaon existed.

>WHFRP 1st ed mentions the Warp will ultimately consume and destroy everything, Chaos gods included

It doesn't say that though. It says that the Chaos Gods will remain and force the souls into new shapes.

>nothing else up until End Times makes Chaos out to be unstoppable or undefeatable whatsoever.

Pretty much every edition has something.