/srg/ - Shadowrun General

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>>54154563
Has anyone tried Shadowrun Anarchy yet? Is it a good alternative to 5e if I want to introduce new players to Shadowrun, but know they can't absorb an entire 5e rulebook right from the start?

>>54154599
>Is it a good alternative to 5e if I want to introduce new players to Shadowrun, but know they can't absorb an entire 5e rulebook right from the start?
not really. Some important stuff is missing that you'd have to take from 5e anyway
Let's say it this way
If 5e is a debt of 10000$, Anarchy is a debt of 9990$.

>>54154599
Picture 5e as a really shitty car.
Anarchy is that same shitty car, only someone hacked at it for a few minutes with a fireaxe, probably took a tire and the bumper off.
There's less there now, but it's still shit and hacking at it probably made it worse in the long run.

>>54154599
I believe you already asked this and will get much the same answers since SRG seems to fairly unanimously think Anarchy is bad.
So no, I do not think it's a good alternative.

What's the best edition to just pick up and play?

>>54155367
go to the OP pastebin
read the document titled "GM advice"

>>54155367
Probably 5, assuming that no one in your group has experience with SR.

How do the Native American Nations manage to stay afloat? They're straight up in a state of psuedo-apartheid and were formed out of a Versailles-tier peace treaty that left the Europeans pissed. You think there'd be coups, civil wars, and even a CSA/UCAS invasion here and there. South Africa even had troubles keeping up apartheid and they were THE economic powerhouse of Africa in the cold war.

>>54155417
If you expected realistic geopolitics from SR I have some bad news.

>>54155518
in fact, if you expected realistic ANYTHING from SR we have some bad news

>>54155518
There's no way they just made North America static since the civil war that split up the continent. I know the Corporate Council annexed some stuff, and there was border skirmishes between the Tir Tangerine and California, but surely the entire continent must be rich with strife from the reverse apartheid.

>>54155560
see
>>54155518
>>54155538

Hey /srg/, I've got a question about the use of Control Thoughts as opposed to Control Actions.

By RAW, both spells are similar, except Control Thoughts is apparently "harder to notice" than Control Actions because you actually direct what the target thinks as opposed to forcibly moving their body as with Control Actions.

By its description, "The magician mentally
gives commands with a Standard Action, and the target is compelled to obey as if it were his own idea."

If the magician were to command a target to shoot themselves in the head, would they just do it if they failed the corresponding Logic + Willpower test? Using Control Actions, it would take a Complex Action to make the target do the same thing, except they'd be more likely to notice. So why would you ever use Control Actions over Control Thoughts when Control Thoughts is not only less noticeable, but also only takes a Standard Action?

I'm on the fence about whether or not I'd let Control Thoughts just make somebody off themselves, because I'd find it hard to believe someone would immediately decide to act on a random suicidal impulse out of nowhere. Killing someone else, maybe, but killing themselves seems like too much of a stretch for something like this.

Of course, someone could also say "well if you can use Control Actions to force someone to shoot themselves, why couldn't you use Control Thoughts to get them to do the same thing?" I'd argue that Control Thoughts would just be a direct upgrade to Control Actions in that case because someone's less likely to notice they're being affected by it.

So what do you think are the reasonable limits for what Control Thoughts would be able to accomplish?

>>54154599
My group loves it.

Holy shit. Our rigger decided to take a dose of K10 to help him in a fight and he beat 2 werewolves to death with his bare hands.

Did the whole collapse of Communism happen in Shadowrun or not? It's really unclear, especially considering the Eurowar was the Warsaw Pact versus... Well, the rest of Europe. But for some reason Poland was fighting against the Warsaw Pact? And they make no mention of Bulgaria, Romania, etc.

>>54155899
By werewolves, do you mean shifters, or some kind of man-wolf hybrid created by your GM?

>>54155923
It didn't happen in the original version of Shadowrun, because it was made back when the Soviet Union existed. Then they retconned it in really badly.

>>54155948
Likely means Loup-Garou

>>54155952
But 4E (I think it was 4E anyways) mentions the Soviet Union invading Europe. Is Europe in Shadowrun just stuck in some odd meta-limbo where no one knows what to do with it?

>>54155560
I wonder what future generations will ask about North Korea

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>>54155877
YOU FUCKING LIAR!!!!!!!

HOW CAN *ANYONE* LIKE A GAME THAT DISCARDS ALL THOSE FUCKING RULES THAT ARE AT THE *CORE* OF THE SHADOWRUN UNIVERSE??!!!

NEXT THING YOU'LL TELL ME IS THAT THE SHADOWRUN GAMES JORDAN WEISMAN DEVELOPED WERE ACTUALLY GOOD!!!

>>54154563
>Well yes you may shoot me but between my bone lacing, orthoskin, armored slav vest and the fuck high body you will at best piss me off
>Fuck

>>54156353
I also thought she was pointing the gun at him. Then I took another look and realized she was just looking at the gun because it's actually pointed sideways and the artist is just really bad at making that apparent.

>>54155838
I'd say that unless you have a target that's inclined to suicide or suicidal thoughts, not much happens if you use Control Thoughts to make a person have an idea to shoot themselves.

At least immediately. Once they get off work they probably start drinking or partying more than normal because goddamn, this was a shitty day. Or perhaps they do it now if they think they can get away with slacking off some.

Of course, if they are suicidal or prone to sucidal thoughts you probably then have a corpse on your hands. Or, more hopefully, somebody taking a break to take their meds.

>>54156372
well huh
you are correct and I have made fool out of myself

>>54155560
Well there was gif that one annon posted that showed all the wars and shit in north america
If I could only find it

>>54156353
>skinweave in CP2020

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>>54156426
>>54155560
Found it
As you can see not so static
As why UCAS is not stomping the NAN
According to Forbidden Arcana UCAS have more trained mages and better millitary but have no idea how to stop Great Ghost Dance 2.0 that will send everything to hell

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>playing ork face girl character with a 6 loyalty drug dealer contact that in-game has known my character for years
>get a call from her, says it's important
>meet up at cafe
>tells me the dealing business isn't safe anymore, wants to quit and live with husband
>wants to settle down with him, only one problem
>she wants a kid but is barren, so wants my character to be a Surrogate
>thanks to paying off some people to get her out of the biz, she's flat broke, so a new womb was outside the possibility
>says she'll give my character some time to decide on if she can help her
>mfw not sure if this an earnest, well-meaning character arc that two people that would go to hell and back for each other would do, or if this a magical realm the GM has worked to get into the game for months

>>54156663
My only big issue is that the NANs have no basis on which to survive. Do you have any idea how massive of a guerrilla movement the Europeans in those counties would form? Not only are they relatively well armed, they have the Treaty of Denver as their Versailles. The timeline there really doesn't get to just how unstable those nations would be. Most of the wars in that timeline are Euro-on-Euro conflicts, where the UCAS would certainly be absolutely furious about getting Versailles'd. If anything, it'd lead to another general North American war, probably with exchange of tactical nuclear weapons (Which still work in Shadowrun) and the natives doing their Ooka Shaka Boom Ghost Dance Part Two Electric Listerine-u.

But I guess that would make North America not too suitable for campaigns. I'm just pissed I can't run Shadowrun in my city because it's in one of those damn stupid native countries

>>54156800
Hey Hey
Chummer
Wanna know the super secret rule of shadowrun?
No one plays the cannon setting(well except missions)
If you want X do be different nothing is stopping you from doing so

>>54156886
What games are you in? Everyone I know plays canon.

>>54156937
In one where CFD does not exist, some books are ignored and Corporations are making different moves from the book.
The idea is that after the first run you are no longer playing cannon setting. You may ended up killing Damien Knight, steal the dragon remains from the Azzies or nuke the Mars Colony. All of this not cannon.
On the other hand the GM may adjust or change the metaplot to fit his needs and player enjoyment.
"No one plays the cannon setting" should not be taken literally. Still you can change the setting as much as you want and no one is there to stop you.

>>54156690
Why not both?

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Is the Cavalier Deputy a good enough gun for an arm-of-god Decker who plans to let the sammy and mage to most of the heavy lifting in combat?

>>54156353
>>54156372
>>54156402
I like the idea that this was just a casual gift he gave her on a date.
That this is actually a nice romantic moment between two runners.

>>54157130
That makes sense. I assumed anon was saying that everyone just ignores Shadowrun's core timeline (A-la making North America look a lot different).

>>54156800
>hurr my setting with elves and dragons has some improbable societal structuring

>>54157351
I'm sorry "The People's Democratic Republic of Listerine" is the step over the line for me.

>>54157375
>"The People's Democratic Republic of Listerine" is the step over the line for me.
fucking Colgate supporters
your kind will be the first to hang

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>>54155417
ASFAIK, none of the NAN other than the
Sioux still discriminate agianst non-natives by 2079, and the Sioux are pretty much a borderline rogue nation (they're stupidly paranoid, and I tend to house-setting them as being a poorly disguised military junta). And the UCAS and CAS have bigger fish to fry than reclaiming their old territory.

>>54155948
I know nothing about the beastiary and I had no ranks in any useful knowledges so he didn't tell me. I just know it was a big scary wolf thing.

>>54155838
I like to imagine it only works if the thought is reasonable, or if doing it would be really easy. Like, if you're near a cliff and jump off, then it'd be quick and whoops. On the other hand, shooting onself would be basically "brings gun up to head, and then being like whoops, what was I thinking?"

>>54157247
Why would you choose it, besides the relative cheapness? Hog deckers should be able to use suppressing fire, which means FA capable, which means machine pistol or submachine gun.

>>54157697
>And the UCAS and CAS have bigger fish to fry than reclaiming their old territory.
Like what?

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>>54157959
I think revolvers are cool, and the rest of the party is kitted up enough with suppression-capable weapons that I feel I can let optimization slide in favor of style.

>>54157995
Sorry, you said hog, and I thought you wanted to matter in combat. You can definitely go Deputy and shoot a guy or two in style.

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>>54157994
Well for a while for the UCAS it was Chicago, and now they have Boston. And the CAS has to deal with Aztlan almost constantly. And the massive war that would be required to reconquer North America is very much bad for the business of the Megacorps that really run the show.

>>54158070
Chicago and Boston are hardly excuses to quell imperialism, especially when you would likely have masses of Europeans calling for reclamation of the old lands (Including those who are delegated to second class citizen status in the native nations). With more military power, more general support from the continent, and megacorp backing there's hardly any reason why the UCAS hasn't at least attempted to reclaim land.

Also, the Megacorps would WANT a general North American war. That gives you more arms sales, alongside tanks, helicopters, fuel, etc, etc. You also have to remember that the NANs regulate megacorps so it would be in their best interest to promote European reconquista of North America.

Also the well proven fact of history that you don't Versailles a nigga and get away with it.

>>54155899

And how dead was he afterwards?

>>54157260

Although why wouldn't they do that? 4th edition had very little source material on the world compared to 3rd, and 5th has even less so at this point it might just be easier to fix stuff from the start on your own. Use what you can and change what you can't.

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>>54158288
>Also the well proven fact of history that you don't Versailles a nigga and get away with it.
You can if you occupy them for a half century while you both have a common enemy.

>>54158558
I'm fairly certain the BRD/DDR's situation was a lot different from the UCAS'.

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>>54158288
Anon, you are forgetting one very important and powerful factor that has cowed many nations: Being accused of racism.

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>>54158677

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Do dragons take selfies?

>>54159049
>Do dragons take

Yes, always.

>>54159049
Nope. They make someone else take the picture.

>>54158377
Literally 1 physical box left. We were all surprised after doing the math, we just assumed he'd die when it wore off.

>>54158558
>Cannot fucking act.jpg
Eh?

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Are there any good SR rule books that have examples of how high tech security works? For example systems that exist in corporate buildings that are put in place to prevent intrusion and runners.

>>54159262

Well you never pop a K10 without expecting to die.

Two things:
One, I wanna fuck Hestaby
Two, do the Tangerines act racist to elf metavariants? Or where would a variant elf fall on their social food chain

>>54159836
In her true form?

>>54160156
Either man orange queen could sit on my face and kill me and I'd say thanks. I'd deal with a dragon for some of her tang or is it Shasta?

>>54156690
Pregnancy is a pretty rough negative trait to accept just for a contact Omae.

But honestly, think about what your character would say while also factoring in the danger of their life to the unborn Kiddo.
Can they afford the months out of work?

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>>54160185
I want to be as attracted to Hestaby as you are. Suggested readings? Pic only related bc sexiness

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Dwarves get a boost to Willpower.

Would that mean that they are less prone to alcoholism, and addiction to vices in general?

>>54159336
Meant to include a detail about how I saw Baby Driver at the theater today, and it seemed like a low-level shadowrun gone bad. The main characters just needed to include metahumans and it wouldn't have been out of place.

The main character (that pic) is played by an actor who exhibits almost no emotion except for dancing.

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>>54160455
>The main character (that pic) is played by an actor who exhibits almost no emotion except for dancing.

To be fair, some audiences like that sort of thing.

>>54160443
It would mean that their least and most prone examples are less prone than those of most other metatypes.

>>54156800
Seven Seven and FAB with judicious application of tac nukes would be a good decap strike and pretty much neuter any shamans powerful enough for GGD 2.

The problem is that in order to prevent things from going off again down the road, you'd have to effectively genocide the Natives, and that'd piss off the PC police at CGL.

You can't apply logic to Shadowrun, you have to homebrew appropriate settings.

Or just set your group in the CAS and have them work against the Azzies in Texas.

>>54156690
Like >>54160191 Pregnancy is tough, and you'd be sitting out of runs for at least six months. If your character would go for it and can afford it, sure.

However, why not find another contact who could fill in? Call in a favor to help out a good friend in need neh? If the dealer is dead set on it being your character's womb then it's definitely GM magical realm.

>>54161043
>and that'd piss off the PC police at CGL.

That and a lot of the world. Countries are not powerless in Shadowrun (Even if they are a lot less powerful than they used to be) and most corps wouldn't be down with the PR nightmare of 'Helped genocide'.

>>54156690
It's 2075. Just give her an egg and let someone grow it in a tube. Or get some other metahuman to be the carry it. Or adopt one. Your imagination is the limit.

>flat broke
Then make her explain in detail how she is planning to raise this kid to become anything other than sinless barrens trash. If she insists, then keep slapping her until she dies or realizes what a stupid idea this is.

>>54161111
Smallpox 2.0 is also an option. The CAS retained the CDC hq in Atlanta didn't they?

>>54161111
You say that, but it's just a war. Most people in the Sixth World wouldn't bat an eye at the use of chemical and nuclear weapons in a conflict, probably. And besides, if the NANs can handle being the 8% minority and suppress the Europeans, the UCAS can easily suppress the 8% of the population under them that is Native.

>>54161111
You mean like how everyone banded together to save the poor Yucatan Rebels, or help out Amazonia with a multinational peace-keeping force?

Yeah, me fucking neither omae.

>>54161043

>The logical outcome in a realistic situation would be genocide to prevent opposition.

Damn those PC writers for being unrealistic.

>>54161564
>Dark future cyberpunk setting
>Doesn't go full dark
Why even bother?

>>54156002
>Mother, when did Glorious United Korea free the capitalist slaves of the world from the American pigdogs?

>>54161564
Considering that grudges will be held, and more shamans will be born? Yes. Genocide is the only answer. Indoctrination never has a 100% success rate and it only ever takes one martyr.

>>54160455
He and his girlfriend were by far the low points of the movie. All the secondary characters were not only better acted, but better written as well.

>>54161583

I mean if you want to dance around in the ruins of a nuclear wasteland sure go all the way.

But there's a reason why we don't go full on nuclear wars or use biological weapons. Mutual trust (threats) between nations.

>>54161610

I can't really argue that it would be the most effective solution. If you're ignoring both the international and national consequences.

But that would be illogical to take into account.

>>54156800
The general idea is that between the uncounted but larger native population (which stretched to include anyone who could plausibly lie about being 1/64 Cherokee), VITAS fucking up the poor little white boys, the Awakening making small towns unlivable, and the forced migrations, only people who wanted to be in the NAN stayed in those territories. Hardliner natives mostly died out the next generation, now it's just regular nativism and a few die-hards at places like OMI who have spent 60 years stockpiling weapons and practising on local terrorists and foreign shadowrunners, waiting for whitey to make a move.

And let's not forget Aztlan, the NAN state that is still regularly warring with the South.

>>54157697
>I tend to house-setting them as being a poorly disguised military junta

That's more or less canon. Shadows in Focus Sioux was basically about the power struggle between paranoid old shamans who remember when Howling Coyote was around, hotshot young warchiefs looking to make a mark on society, and OMI standing in the corner, breathing heavy and fondling their knives.

>>54161690
What consequences? After watching what Aztlan got away with in Amazonia I'm surprised the UCAS and CAS aren't working on terror weapons to surpass the Sangre de Diablo tree.

>>54161705
So you're saying there's a lot of territory and resources with relatively low, yet concentrated populations?

If only there were some weapons that were really good at wiping out urban areas. It's on the tip of my tongue.

>>54158288
The NAN tried to restrict Megas. Now one of them (can't remember if it's Horizon or EVO) owns the biggest 'native' corp and cornered the native food market without anyone noticing.

Open war is actually not a thing the corps want, not between powers that have the opportunity to flip the chessboard and ruin the game for everyone. They do well enough raping the land (like Tsimshan), undercutting their opponents with subsidies (like the aforementioned Wind River Corp.), and playing a half-dozen bickering minor American nations againsy each other to think that a temporary boost to arms sales is worth the long-term problems of a renewed USA.

>>54159459
Core book, GM section has some stuff

>>54161825
>think that a temporary boost to arms sales is worth the long-term problems of a renewed USA.
Easy, just fund a coup in the UCAS, and install a pro-corporate regime. Then you unite the lands and have a happy little state-sponsored monopoly.

>>54161849
You could also try the 3e Corporate Security Handbook.

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>>54161043
One of many problems with your idea is that the Great Ghost Dance was done by nobodies, with no idea what they were doing, and no special resources. You can't decapitate something you don't understand that was done in a cave with a box of scraps.

>>54161942
If they can do it, why hasn't it happened again? Or anywhere else on the planet for that matter?

>>54161942
>It was done by nobodies.
>With no leadership to remove.

"Who was Daniel Howling Coyote?"
>lolidunno

>>54161942
You should take a breath between fellating the NANs anon.

That oxygen deprivation isn't doing your brain any favors.

>>54161755
The NAN isn't actually that concentrated. White people were, parts of the NAN have literally gone to nomadic followers of herds because you can still get wifi in 2077. Also, you forget that they have a military as well. The entire Sioux Nation is geared towards blowing the shit out of the first wave with their own advanced weaponry systems, then innawoods gureillas until White Buffalo Woman comes.

Also, nobody is tossing around nukes. Nobody. The closest we get to that is people threatening Thor Shots, and a Firewatch team setting off a small one in the Chicago hive that didn't even work right.

>>54161858
Except that's exactly why Operation Reciprocity. Monopolies are a death sentence - the while house of cards only works because the corps agree to not cut each other out.

>>54161969
At the time, Daniel Howling Coyote was a nobody until he randomly became a somebody. A new nobody could appear just as abruptly.

That's how magic works.

>>54161969
Howling Coyote, aside from being a terrorist that they literally spent a decade trying and failing to catch, was the native Messiah, but not the greatest shaman in the world. He was the one they needed to lead them, he didn't know shit about the ritual beyond what he was told to do.

>>54161963
Because the NAN doesn't know what happened either. Has nobody but me actually read the fiction about that period? It's a case where Indian God told them what to do, and they did it. The UCAS and CAS think that if they push too hard it may happen again, and deslite not being as helpless as last time (at least now everyonr acknowledges magic is a thing) they don't know what they're supposed to do to stop it, or even what to look for.

Can the NAN coucil start blowing up volcanoes? No, probably not. Let's not force them into a position where they have to try.

>>54162009
And that's why you have to kill them all, omae.
There can't be Somebody if there's Nobody left.

>>54161990
>Nobody's tossing around nukes.

Nukes still work, not as predictably or effectively, but still far better than chemical explosives.
>Chicago
Proves they're reliable enough. I think you forget that when the first nuke was tested, it was done so with the concern that it might start a chain reaction that'd set the entire atmosphere ablaze. They set it off anyhow.

A little thing like a slightly smaller or larger yield than expected is nothing.

>>54162053
That's why you don't leave anyone to be a Messiah. Try to keep up.

>>54162057
But how can you kill them all if they just Ghost Dance out of nowhere again?

Doing it now would be no more abrupt as when they first did it, and it's not like anyone has figured out what the fuck actually happened since then.

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>>54162057
How often has genocide actually been 100% successful irl? Pic unrelated

>>54162053
>Indian God

Probably techically a free spirit or some other powerful magical entity with a tremendous knowledge of blood/life magic, but looks like a duck, quacks like a deity

>>54161858
>pro-corporate
Which corporation, though? It's in the best interests of the other corporations to ensure that none of the others gets a leg up. The entire corporate council will throw their weight against anyone that tries to buck that.

>>54162066
You are the one who thinks that somewhow nuking 3/4s of a continent (while presumably blackbag teams eliminate the tens of thousands of natives around the world) to eradicate an entire genetic lineage is somehow plausible. Try and take your head out of your nuke-fetishising ass.

>>54162069
Anon, are you familiar with the concept of 'first strike'?

>>54162091
How often does irl apply to Shadowrun?

>>54162125
>He doesn't believe the surveillance state and SIN registry make it more plausible than at any other time in history.

Alternatively, just a little covert sample grabbing and do a nice bunch of 'One Less NANnie' rituals as the nukes launch.

I mean, it's like you're not even thinking about how easy it really is for a government with actual resources. You can't think completely like a Shadowrunner in this.

>>54162163
They had been first striking up until the Ghost Dance actually happened. Remember that the whole thing was motivated by putting them in concentration camps in the first place.

>>54162170

That's not a first strike except in the most general of senses. I'll be specific and spell it out for someone too young to know about the cold war.

A first strike is when you launch nukes first, with the aim of destroying an enemy's capacity to wage war. Since the NAN can manifest a messiah from potentially anyone, this means their population centers as well as military installations are gonna get kissed by thermonuclear fire.

Also, don't forget putting them in camps was motivated by some Native American terrorists taking over a silo and launching a missile at Russia. They set the stakes long ago, and it's time to cash in.

>>54162163
I'm just saying that if the whole plan rests on wiping out every single amerind then it's not going to work. Irl might not apply all the time considering this is future fantasy, but if (to my knowledge) no genocide has ever actually managed to wipe out a whole race, I don't see it happening, particularly in a world where the shadows are so big. Plus it's just a dumb idea that no one would like

>>54162170
So, are you under 18, or are you just that ignorant of what a first strike means in nuclear terms?

>>54162170
>>54162197
don't bother anon, you're arguing with a 'hurr durr kill them brown people' nuke fetishist

This won't end because apparently nukes are the solution to everything in their mind

>>54162194
There's a reason we never first struck in the Cold War either. You can't possibly guarantee to within any margin of safety that you'll take out the enemies strategic capabilities in one attack. Then you're just left with MAD at best.

Also, shooting off nukes in the continental United States is colossally retarded, for a lot of reasons.

>>54162203
I assumed we weren't talking about nukes, because talking about nukes as anything other than a deterrent is fucking outrageous.

>>54162208
>Dey dindunuffin

>>54162215
>Nukes as anything other than a deterrent is outrageous.
>Coyote was willing to blow Yellowstone.

If anything, nuking them all is a restrained and less than proportional response to the threat.

>>54162208
It's not about brown people, I just want CGL's Mary Sioux to be wiped out of the 6th world. They haven't even been relevant or interesting for two editions now.

>>54162225
Triggering Yellowstone is also a deterrent.

Shooting nukes and igniting super volcanos is something only actual death cultists would do. It's pretty much equivalent to the Azzies summoning horrors in terms of both terrible ideas and potentially world ending catastrophes.

>>54162219
>I'll just use my epic may may
>that'll show them
>hurrr nukes r cool

Thanks for proving you're the leprous retard I had assumed you were

>>54162248
And thank you for demonstrating how ably you fellate NAN cock.

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>>54162270
You seem really hopped up on the politics of a literal fantasy land. You should go get some fresh air anon.

Also, should we genocide the Natives, what would the S in the Shadowrun logo turn into?

>Playing D&D 5e
>Drow Bard
>My patron wants me to assassinate this dude we're also getting a major job from
>I'm a squishy little bard, my best spell attack does 6d6 damage and I'd rather save that 4th level slot so only 5d6 damage
>Have a knife that has a *chance* of doing 1d4+2d10+2 in one hit, then only 1d4+2 for the rest of the day

>Can definitely seduce him and get him alone, but it'd be tricky as fuck to actually get him dead, plus I need to destroy & hide his body so nobody will ever rez him but he's in the middle of a city loyal to him

>Pop open Hard Targets for assassination ideas

Thanks for existing, Shadowrun.

>>54162279
An Eastern dragon most likely. It's still weird that as little effect as the Native Americans have in 5E, that they're still part of the branding.

>>54162280
If your DM forces you to cut through your target's meatpoints while they're asleep and helpless you need to get another DM.

Alternatively, time him down during sexytimes and then just strangle/smother his ass and get to work burning the body after.

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I wish there was an actual goblin metatype, rather than it just being HMMVV infected dwarves.

>>54162233

Everytime I see the abbreviation nan I think of grandmas. Genociding grandmas is one thing but lets not get into sucking their cocks too.

>>54162233

The Native states are pretty much North Korea at this point though. Even if they wanted to be assimilated and even if anyone wanted to assimilate them, the resources required to do so are just too damn high for anyone to consider it.

>>54162298
I doubt he'll actually let me spend the night with him since I'm a drow and he's veteran commander from a lawful evil organization of mercenaries, but that's what I'm gonna try first. Backup is probably getting my hands on some contact poisons--Torpor has a pretty high constitution save DC and puts them in a brief coma if they fail...

>>54162324
Sounds like their Messiah backed the wrong people. I thought they were supposed to be prosperous and living in harmony with magic and nature, not recreating sub-Saharan Africa or Best Korea?

>>54162057


>Nukes still work, not as predictably or effectively, but still far better than chemical explosives.
Of the 12 nuclear devices detonated singe 2012, 7 (4 Winternight, 2 Pakistani, 1 Indian) worked correctly, 2 (Winternight) fizzled, 2 (Pakistani) blow up their launch facilities, and 1 (unknown) blew downward instead of outward as the laws of physics and thousands of cord war era tests indicated it should have. That's a 42% failure rate. Conventional explosives are considerably more reliable than that.

>>54162298

Suggest trying out asphyxiation and then forget the safeword.

>>54162312

So you basically want a dwarf that gets hit with a dose of goblinisation?

>>54162378

Oh sure there's probably harmonizing hardcore with magic and nature. Prosperous? I don't know about that, with the exception of the PPC, but those natives were largely exempt from the concentration camps,

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>>54162440
Somewhere between an elf and a dwarf goblinized, yeah.

>>54162457

I sort of fail to see where the elf parts comes into it.

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I need art of wageslaves.

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>>54162478
Skinny, big ears, people actually give a shit about them.

>>54162430
You can pretty much write off Pakistani nukes going wrong as their missiles being shit, and the one blowing downward seems like it did the job properly.

20%ish failure rate just means you use two nukes on a target for surety. Always doubletap.

>>54162522
That's a rational approach to an irrational problem.

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>>54162503

Okay maybe I'll rain on your parade here but consider the following;

The goblins as portrayed in Shadowrun are essentially the exact same as most mainstream types of goblins, with the exception of the infection part (more on that later). They're skinny, short, long eared (more so than the dwarf metatype), and typically described as hideously ugly. Fits with Tolkiens, DnD and typical folklore types of goblins pretty well.

Now take into consideration that Shadowrun lore is originally linked to Earthdawn, and played on the whole "This has happened before, that's where all these mythical races and creatures come from". Keep this in mind, and consider that infection has also happened before. Is then infection not just another natural evolution, much like UGE and Goblinization? After all, second generation infected do no longer carry the strain of the virus that lets them infect others, although their children will still be born infected.

So in a sense, for Goblins as well as some other HMHVV victims, they're just the first line in the creation of a new metavariant of dwarves that is less natural than the others. And that needs to eat meat, but don't come complaining about that or I'll give you a piece on that too.

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>>54162613
That's fair, but HMMVV goblins aren't sapient. The transformation universally makes them little more than animals. They lack any of the classical "goblin" traits besides outward appearance.

It just strikes me as odd that they would make goblins a non-metahuman race essentially, when goblins in most fantasy are just as smart or more so than orcs.

If they just clarified that the HMMVV goblins were actually sapient, I would be satisfied.

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Experienced rp group, but all largely unexposed to shadowrun including the gm (me)
What is the best edition to use?

>>54162777
Which are you most tolerant of, shit editing, shit Matrix, funky early-90s rules stuff or funky late-90s rules stuff?

>>54162792
Likely most tolerant of shit editting, but define shit matrix for me

>>54162656
Goblins aren't really considered as being on par with standard PC races, historically. Warcraft depicting them as clever, amoral engineers is largely a response to Warhammer's gretchin and goblins, both of which rely on superior numbers to achieve anything. Who wants to play a character with 1HP and no badass pixie wings?
>>54162777
If you can handle narrativist rules, try Anarchy. If you're not turned off by the setting or the amount of dice rolled, give 5e a shot. Otherwise jump straight in to 5.

>>54162656

I'm not sure where you get the impression that Goblins aren't sapient, although I've heard rumors about some new Infection book for 5e that was allegedly pretty crap.

HMHVV infected (and that includes all of them) are generally sapient, although the psychological trauma and brain damage of being transformed might turn some feral. Others simply might turn feral after the constant abuse and alienation from society, forced to live like wild animals in the sewers our outskirts. But remember, they're all still sapient before getting infected.

As for traits, goblins are generally a bit tougher than they look and quick. They get bonus Body and Reaction, both sufficiently symbolizing this. As for logic, I would never really say that Goblins are smarter than Orcs in general, just that they're forced by circumstance to think more carefully. But more than often Goblins are portrayed as getting themselves killed in foolish ways.

All in all the one thing I'd change about goblins in Shadowrun is the fact that they felt the need to shoehorn in Essence Drain/Loss on Ghouls, so people who want to play a dwarf but also a vampire can sort of get their will through. I'd rather make a dwarf infected character closer to a vampire and call it an Imp, and keep the ghoul as a regular flesh eating infected.

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>>54162896

Meant "shoehorn in Essence Drain/Loss on Goblins" not Ghouls. Early morning no sleep posting.

>>54162817
1e has crap matrix rules, but there's no reason to use that over 2e. 4e has a problem in that a lot of the time your decker can just be replaced with a program running on your future smartphone and nobody will notice.

5e's got jank as fuck editing, to the point where they forget to tell you in the damage section that running out of stun boxes (HP comes in two flavours, stun and physical) knocks you unconscious, instead hiding that elsewhere in the book (it might be one of those things that's buried in item descriptions).

There's no real rules compatibility between 1-3e and 4-5e, as there was a major re-write of the rules system in between 3 and 4.

>>54162896
In Paranormal Animals of Europe, they talk about how goblins basically have the mental capacity of an ape or small child. They're limited to short sentences of at most three or four words, use simple tools, and barely wear clothing. Even in the goblin "tribes" that exist, they're barely above chimps.

That's a pretty old sourcebook, but it's the one I remember talking most about goblins. Have they been updated elsewhere since then?

>>54162972

As someone who started on 4e but has read a bit of 3e (while researching to make a hit location conversion, but that is another story), did 1st to 3rd edition all have the same Fine/Ouch/Dying/Dead system of health?

>>54162998

Ah, yes just looked that chapter up now (had no idea they chose to push goblins into that book).

4th edition generally overhauled the Infected to be a bit more... metahuman I guess. Feral infected are as previously stated still a thing but nowhere near as frequently (or rather exclusively) as in Paranormal Animals of Europe.

I'd say read the bits on the Infected in 4th Edition Runners Companion. The 5th Edition chapters on it is kinda lacking.

>>54163000
My experience with the early editions is limited, but I believe so. And if they don't, it's not like it matters, given that L/M/S/D is just a code for how many boxes of damage you take (1/3/6/10).

Weird request but
Slow and Steady Death, the story in Hard Targets page ~76. An assassin scopes out a safehouse, kills a couple other assassins, then goes for the kill on El Jefe. He misses, and while escaping El Jefe is thrown into a vehicle by his protection, to be taken onto a boat and to safety. Then...

>Tortuga moved down the back stairwell through route two. Route one was compromised by excessive bullets in the air. He paused at the door into the rear stairwell when an incoming message ARO popped into his ield of vision. It was a contract message.
>“Mark: El Jefe, a.k.a. Carlos de Guevara de Castro. Contract Status: Fulilled. Payment en route. Cease efforts.”
>Tortuga expended a tiny bit of effort to open his work account and found the message true. What he suspected was some kind of ploy by a hacker in El Jefe’s employ instead revealed a significant increase in his account balance. He ordered the sum moved immediately—standard operating procedure—and then calmly stepped out into the back alley. A dozen steps later he was blending into the sparse trafic on the >Havana street. Five minutes later he was a ghost in the wind.

What the hell? Why did the contract complete? El Jefe seems to be totally fine. Am I missing something?

http://i.imgur.com/wxLdRZL.jpg

>>54163053
>4th edition generally overhauled the Infected to be a bit more... metahuman I guess. Feral infected are as previously stated still a thing but nowhere near as frequently (or rather exclusively) as in Paranormal Animals of Europe.

Yeah, 4e treated it more as 'This is a person with a disease'. 5e went back towards 'This guy has become a monster'.

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>>54163226
>>54163053
I mean, frankly, I'm not really interested in "person with a disease" either. I just want goblins as an actual honest to goodness metavariant or metatype. Something that's just a different kind of people. We've got minotaurs, trolls, orks, giants, ogres, and even oni. So it's not like it's just because goblins are too dumb and evil to be a player race when in most fiction they're smarter than the lot of the aforementioned creatures. Goblins are a staple. Their absence is conspicuous.

>>54163253
You don't have to pretend to have a reason for wanting them other than green shortstack sluts. We all know that's what's really going on here.

>>54163191
Someone on the targets security team payed him off?

>>54163253
Didn't CGL drop the ball with certain races being playable? I remember reading that they fucked up centaurs and nagas. If you really want to play as a shortstack gobbo though just house rule it.

>>54163253

They're not absent though. I feel like you completely ignored this part;

> they're just the first line in the creation of a new metavariant of dwarves that is less natural than the others.
It's a race in development.

And again, mention a mainstream fiction aside from World of Warcraft where they are stated to be smarter. There aint really one.

I mean I'm forever a GM so as for things I don't like (as someone mentioned, Centaurs and Nagas) I just houserule it. If you want such a particular breed of Goblin that exists in your headcanon I guess you just have to do the same and houserule it,

Is Aztechnology on good terms with any dragons?

>>54163366
Well, they're certainly more tricksy than orcs in standard D&D, but that's largely a byproduct of them having to be to cope with being small.

Also, it's not really that I care about them being smarter than orcs. Especially because orks in Shadowrun are rather pointedly said to be, on the whole, not really that much dumber than your average human. So if they're already flipping the script with orks, trolls, and ogres, I don't see why goblins are left out.

And, as they are, goblins in SR are no more a race than ghouls or vampires are in regular fantasy. That is to say, not a race as much as an affliction.

I also already houseruled a bunch of stuff, so I was going to with goblins anyway, but I just find it odd that they were left out to begin with when they added other races so similar to the regular roster of metavariants.

>>54163379
Short answer: No.

Long answer: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Serious long answer: after executing one and dissecting like a lab rat, and their conflicts with both Hualpa and Sirrurg; dragons in general and Aztech are on pretty bad terms. There might still be some lesser feathered serpents still collaborating with them, but not much else.

>>54163408

Well there was never really any reason for them to put them in as a Metatype, but as a Metavariant it'd be possible.

Only problem there is that the metavariants are mostly based around ethinc variations. And goblins are a northern european/nordic thing. So why not make it the european metavariant of a dwarf? Because the european variant of a dwarf is a dwarf. And a goblin is generally considered a more evil derivative of the dwarf.

Now going back to my point that Shadowrun plays on the concept of our myths and legends actually being history, what would historically make goblins have the reputation for being evil creatures if not for the fact that they have to eat metahuman flesh to survive.

Still, I believe the metavariants that are in the game are just the most prevalent ones, and if you've got a good way of placing Goblins geographically/ethincally that doesn't make it feel too shoehorned I'm all ears. I always appreciate new ideas.

>>54163379
Lets see
Executing and dissecting a dragon, checked
Open war on country controlled by great dragons, checked
Using bio weapon made specifically to kill dragons, checked
Large use of blood magic and probably controlled by the horrors, checked
Big D saying he will pay bounty for every blood mage captured and killed, check
Bonus: is enemy of other megacorp rulled by a dragon
11/10 every single dragon hates them in the guts

>>54163876
There's a possible exception, if some anon was right about the smoking mirror.

what are some video games that simulate the shadowrun experience, if not the setting itself?
I don't get to be in any game I don't run, an I would really like to have some free roaming cybermercenary work.

The best I can find are tiny games like decker, unrelated oldies like mercenary based mech games, and the occasional indie job, usually centered around hacking.
Oh, and the dystopia half life mod. That's basically security VS runners: the game, but doesn't have any of the mercenary angles.

>>54164072
Well, there's the recent Shadowrun RPGs by Harebrained Schemes. Dragonfall and Hong Kong are both very strong classic RPGs.

>>54164072
The ah, Shadowrun games might be a good place to start. There's a Genesis game and the SR: Returns series.

>>54164080
>>54164086
sorry, I should have mentioned I played ACTUAL shadowrun games into the goddamn ground.
I had a problem with all of them except the genesis one and to a lesser extent the super nintendo one, in that they were more self contained stories rather than open mercenary scenarios.
Still fun, but it leaves the itch.

>>54164072
http://store.steampowered.com/app/234650/Shadowrun_Returns/

Last day to buy it for a song. The other two games, too.

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>>54164093
Oh, well in that case we're in the same boat. There aren't many open world cyberpunk games as it is. Hopefully when Cyberpunk 2077 comes out it'll be rectified.

If it ever does.

>>54164164
Weeell, fuck.
Time to go back to the near-matches. I find mech warrior 4: mercenaries, front mission: gun hazard, and the armored core series scratch the itch. At least a little.
I have no idea why they are all mech games.
Are mech games the only games that track repair costs and ammunition expenditure or something?

>>54164186
How about Jagged Alliance 2?

>>54164224
Yeah, that one was good. I enjoyed the part where I figured out I could just straight up own silver mines, and the part where there was a menu option to enable sci-fi.
If we're diverging that far, the second silent storm is a mercenary setup.

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If they know elves genetically have longer lives, why hasn't more research been done into isolating those genes and selling it as a genemod? Seems like a much better idea than leonization, which you can only do so many times before you die of essence loss.

Speaking of essence loss and genefixing, genetic alterations to a fetus or to someones egg/sperm wouldn't cause the baby to be born with less essence right?

>>54164685
>genetic alterations to a fetus or to someones egg/sperm wouldn't cause the baby to be born with less essence right?
nope, that's what IIRC genetic Heritage is about

>>54164695
Actually, I think genetic heritage still costs you essence but is free monetarily.

Which is really dumb.

>>54164093
>>54164186
>>54164242

There's a mod for Shadowrun Returns where it's one big open world with repeating quests - just like the Genesis version.

>>54164718
I mistook it with Genecrafted
Genetic Heritage means you inherited one genetweak from your parents/grandparents. It gives you one free geneware and nuyen costs for further ones are reduced by 20%

Genetweaked means you were augmented before you were born. It reduces the nuyen cost by 20% but still costs the same essence

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Besides toxic shamans and anything to do with insect spirits, have there been any other purely antagonistic archetypes that the books specifically forbade or discouraged players from using?

>>54164825
Bloodmages.

>>54164728
I wish that one was ever finished

>>54164833
I remember those now - thanks! Although, aside from the whole (meta)human sacrifice thing, what else made them pure evil?

>>54164825
Azzies

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>>54164685
Immortal Elves put the kibosh on pretty much any research that looks like it's making headway.
>>54164907
Short version, they're using it wrong. Blood Magic in the Sixth World is based largely on harming others in order to generate more magical power; this is the magical equivalent of burning off the ozone layer in order to heat up your home in winter. Works in the short term, but the long term effects are genocidally bad.

>>54164907
From what I understand it's both magically unsustainable and attracts horrors like a motherfucker.

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>>54164963
>Azzies
Mexicans are always bad news

I almost posted pics of decapitated heads and torsos that Mexican cartels have left lying around, then thought better of it.

>>54164968
>Immortal Elves put the kibosh on pretty much any research that looks like it's making headway.

That seems highly suspicious. That is, I doubt how long they could keep doing that in such a highly connected world. Elves run a lot, but they don't run everything. Most megas are still being run by normal metahumans.

>>54165003
Not the guy you're talking to, but it wouldn't surprise me if the immortal elves are written to be such Mary Sues that they can indeed suspend research indefinitely. Because magic. And elves.

>>54165046
Sure, but they're also the "good guy" Mary Sues. So eventually Harlequin will spill the beans for the betterment of humanity but totally pretend it was just for the lulz.

>>54164995
At this point we have so much evidence of every single group of humanity being awful that the only logical recourse is to produce a race to take over for us after we die, then eliminate all humanity.
Passing the buck is the last possible recourse of our horrible, horrible species.

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>>54165150

>>54164825
Metasapients, AIs, and Infected. At least, they should be discouraged.

>>54165187
look, if you're going to talk about real-life groups being shit, I have to point out the only lasting solution to the problem.
I know it's edgy, but the topic we are going over is inherently edgy.

>>54165150
I wouldn't say no to being part of a transhuman breeding programm

>>54165206
I haven't played in a while so I'm not familiar with some of the metaplot. What are metasapients and infected? And I thought AI was a thing they were still struggling to create?

>>54165206
I don't really see any problem with metasapients, but I do get AIs and Infected.

>>54165238
Metasapients are sapient races that aren't human offshoots. Sasquatch, naga, centaurs, and a few others fit under this umbrella.

Infected are Ghouls, Vampires, and the like. People infected with strains of HMMVV.

>>54165215
If you can't find any sort of redeeming value or action for humanity as a whole, then you either haven't looked hard enough or you're so committed to this comically GRIM DARK view that you filter out and blind yourself to anything that might change a world view like that.

>>54163289
Or the whole thing was arranged *by* the security team, to validate the threat to El Jefe's life, thus justifying their employment and giving them shitloads of leverage about getting a fat raise?

>>54165261
But all those things, including ghouls and vampires, have been portrayed in a sympathetic or even victimized light in Shadowrun before.

>>54165246
What's so bad about the AIs? I would've thought they would have their share of saints and sinners instead of being universally evil.

>>54165317
Yeah, which is why I don't agree with his assessment of metasapients. Except maybe pixies. Infected though are explicitly supposed to be handled with extreme care, both because they're naturally gonna be at least partially antagonistic but also because they are gonna draw a lot of negative attention in the setting. Playing a ghoul or vampire is almost as dangerous as playing an insect or toxic mage because people want to kill you just as much.

>>54165344
I think there's been a miscommunication. We assumed you meant "forbidden or discouraged" as in dangerous to play, rather than just evil.

>>54165058
Harlequin might. Although "for the betterment of metahumanity" is debatable. A lot of people suddenly living six time longer would bring problems of its own.

>>54165358
>Playing a ghoul or vampire is almost as dangerous as playing an insect or toxic mage because people want to kill you just as much.

Which is understandable because, as a ghoul, you need to literally eat people to live. Which logically means sentient people have to die in order to keep a ghoul alive. And if I'm remembering correctly, vampires are more or less walking AIDS with their potential to infect people with bad shit.

The sympathetic portrayals I actually didn't have a problem with (you can save both ghouls and a vampire from their respective plights in Shadowrun Returns and Hong Kong, respectively). But at the end of the day it's a shitty existence which more or less puts a doomsday clock over your head, but I can perfectly understand why. We don't let lepers or infectious people run around in our populations, so too I can understand wanting to eliminate people that will literally kill everybody they can put their hands on so they can buy more time on this Earth.

>>54165370
I understood what was being said, but still wanted to say they should be discouraged.

>>54165344
AI rules are overly complicated and terrible. Infected are actually better than ever, but still more powerful and forced into a niche than standard PCs (even metavariants). AIs are a step backward for playing according to the rules - and I didn't think that was even possible in 4e.

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>>54165455
Well, ghouls at least have a pretty easy out in the form of eating the recently deceased and rejected vat grown organs. Which, in the world of SR, there is a fuckton of. Frankly, they perform a civil service.

Problem with them is literally a scratch will turn you into one.

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>>54165370
Ah, okay. Let me clear things up then:

I'm looking for antagonist ideas for an upcoming Shadowrun campaign I'll be running. I need a host of bad guys that are irredeemably evil, and no PC no matter what background they come from should have any reservations fighting against.

>>54165500
Eldritch Mage who spends his time mindraping folks
Pariah Mage who actively slaughters awakened to create astral voids
Humanis backed politician who secretly funds anti metahuman pogroms
Pedophile corporate exec who kidnaps gnomes and does unspeakable shit to them

>>54165491
>rejected vat grown organs

There's the problem, omae. "Vat grown" drek (like whatever remains of a wimp the medics only needed a small part of) doesn't sustain them, only what was part of a living body. Chopped-off arm because someone got a cyberarm installed does, but let us just say that in most cases there's not enough supply for the demand.

>>54165491
>rejected vat grown organs
Sort of, but not. Infected flesh eaters have to go for the removed parts for actual nutrition.

>>54165550
Clarification: 'living' in this case means 'born and grown the old-fashioned way'.

>>54165491
>Well, ghouls at least have a pretty easy out in the form of eating the recently deceased and rejected vat grown organs. Which, in the world of SR, there is a fuckton of. Frankly, they perform a civil service.

My own interpretation of things was that there ISN'T an over abundance of recently dead tissue to munch on - at least not in any reasonably developed nations. As much of a GRIMDARK society that Shadowrun is portrayed to be, it's generally a miserable existence but not a LETHAL existence for the several billion people still on the planet. Plus people still do shit like have open casket funerals and want to bury their dead. And I would imagine vat grown rejects are kept to as much of a minimum as they can afford if only to save on costs.

>>54165567
Or spent time in a naturally grown body.

>>54165569
>Plus people still do shit like have open casket funerals and want to bury their dead.
Not when you're talking about people who live in areas with ghoul infestations. They tend to have gangs and related issues, like regular turf wars and a lack of governmental agencies that would remove corpses.

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>>54165058
Ehhhh. They're 'good guys' in the sense that they don't want the world to be eaten by the Horrors any more than we do, we just don't know that's a thing yet. Beyond that they have no particular interest in anything that doesn't serve their personal goals.
>>54165491
Vat-grown organs don't work. No essence. Medical waste isn't scaleable to support an entire population, and you'd run into NIMBY PR issues if your hospital was caught running a ghoul food clinic with some senator's old liver or somesuch.

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>>54162480

>>54165628
do chopped off pieces even work if you don't lose essence when losing one :thinking:

>>54163379
There are no known dragon associated with Aztechnology. There are strong hints that there is a secret dragon working with/guiding the Smoking Mirror cult and that the dragon may in turn be a servant of the Horrors

>>54165546
>Pedophile corporate exec who kidnaps gnomes and does unspeakable shit to them

That might actually be a step up from regular pedophiles. If he's gone from abusing kids to abusing adults who look like kids, it's just another short step to abusing robots that look like kids, and that's totally kosher.

>>54165617
You don't need the nanny state to bury your nana, anon. Every culture has funerary rituals, and very few of them involve slathering the corpse in hot sauce and giving it to the monsters down the block.

>>54165569
I always liked the fluff bit that Asamando's main international involvement is covertly encouraging war between other African nations so they can take the corpses home.

>>54165795
I mean, if he paid those gnomes or if they volunteered or some shit it would be all good.

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>>54165628
>you'd run into NIMBY PR issues if your hospital was caught running a ghoul food clinic with some senator's old liver or somesuch.

>mfw this is the plotline of the next season of iZombie

SR got it backwards, we're getting ghouls in Seattle and mercs in Africa.

Can you post this: "My Shadowrun 5th edition book is falling apart. Does anyone else have this problem and/or know how to fix it? Kinkos doesn't seem to be an option. Also possible suggestions on what D-ring to buy and sleeves. Thanks."

>>54166093
>My Shadowrun 5th edition book is falling apart. Does anyone else have this problem and/or know how to fix it? Kinkos doesn't seem to be an option. Also possible suggestions on what D-ring to buy and sleeves. Thanks.

Sure, I can post that.

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>>54166110
You're the friend a man really needs.

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>>54165716
Seems to. The popular theory is that a living 'soul', for lack of a better word, catalyses the body's cells with ambient mana, which the ghoul is actually eating. It's sort of a communion wafer thing.
>>54166093
>My Shadowrun 5th edition book is falling apart. Does anyone else have this problem and/or know how to fix it? Kinkos doesn't seem to be an option. Also possible suggestions on what D-ring to buy and sleeves. Thanks.
Seriously though, D-ringing a book is awful and should be a last resort. Kinko's/Fedex should be able to assist you with spiral- or comb-binding the book. Makes the book much more usable since you can lay everything flat, but doesn't look as nice.

>>54165835
Now imagine he preys on underage gnomes

>>54166303
The fiend!

>>54165833
That's basically zorastrianism's traditional funeral rite actually, although it's supposed to be vultures, not weird half-men.

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>>54165500
Azzies

>>54166641
Hi there, fellow anti-azzie! Let us meet up so that we can discuss anti-azzie things. Please forward your name and location in an expedient fashion.

>>54166318
That's why I said very few. I knew about sky burials (which are also used by Tibetan Buddhists and a few others), but they are done for very different purposes. And there's also a bit of a difference between giving oneself to the natural elements, and tossing your bones to the infectious cannibals.

>>54166699
sure my fellow anti-azzie friend! My name is Andrew Res and why don't we meet in Recipro City?

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>>54165150

>>54166855
Fantastic! Don' bring weapons

>>54166897
>Don' bring weapons
Absolutely right!
Czar and Oyabun should also bring some

Telestrian sure is rich for a company that makes literally one thing that's ever been described

>>54167040
see
>>54155538

It's magic elves, we don't have to explain shit

>>54162123
All of them? There's a reason -right now- the big cheese megacorp, Monsanto, works real hard with the US government. Centralization 100% of the time works in favor of oppressive corporations. If anything, in real life a UCAS/CAS/etc split would lead to a bunch of significant regional variations that would fuck them up hard.

But then, cyberpunk's never been known to be very politically or economically astute, so that's that.

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>>54167040
They do biotech and neural networks, as well as pretty much every valuable contract the Tangerine government has to offer. Nepotism has it's advantages.

>>54164833
(Finally) retconned in FA. They can be as good or evil as you want, and the bounty got nerfed to the ground so you don't have to come up with an excuse for why your players aren't allowed to cash in on a bit-rate bloodmage for hundreds of thousands of nuyen apiece. You could even play one!

>>54167255
>They can be as good or evil as you want

Not really. Blood magic is still evil, there is just one tiny smidge of life magic that's been rediscovered. So you can do that and not turn into a baby-eater.

>>54167296
My point being that you -can- do blood magic and not be evil.

Blood adepts are still outta luck, though I bet a swarm of them with crystal arms would make great mooks.

>>54167336
Blood magic =/= Life magic. Do you even Earthdawn, bro?

Crystal Adept Sentai Squad go!

>>54167376
It's all bloody blood-blood in the end if you ask me.

>Earthdawn
I have the books for 4e, all I need now is a game.

>>54167416
>if you ask me
We didn't though.

>>54167738
I want to hear what everyone has to say about blood magic because I haven't played since 3rd.

So I wanted his input as much as anyone else's.

>>54167792
Yeah, but he's gone from offering his take to making claims that contradict both fluff and crunch.

>>54167792
I think anon >>54167738 meant that no one asked him if blood magic and life magic were the same.

Because they're not.

>Tir Tangerine caught on
Fucking memes

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>>54168049

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Hoi chummers, I'm planning on having my pink mohawk group do a run at a pop concert. A somewhat eccentric Mr. Johnson has a personal dispute with this pop idol, so he wants a group of runners to get backstage and hack into the idol's breast implants 2.0 while she's live onstage to give her the biggest wardrobe malfunction since 2070. The question is, how do I make this a job that isn't just for the decker? And how much noise would there be at a pop concert in a major metropolitan area? I really like this run idea but I really want to get all the details right so the dumb payoff of this idol's cyberbreasts rapidly changing size is extremely satisfying.

>>54168928

...Gotta do legwork to find the choreography, so you know when to diddle with the implants to throw her balance off. How good is the streetsam at impersonating concert security? Who's gonna keep the concert from being shut down and the Idol being ushered off stage?

The Decker can't be everywhere, and someone has to counteract the 'Shut it down!'.

>>54168928
Have a mage or shaman take a water spell to make it even worse.

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>>54168928
I did a run like this - more black trenchcoat, which ended extremely unsatisfying for the whole crew. It might help if you post the group's other so people can give suggestions based on the group's strengths.

>>54168928
We had a similar run, had to ruin a pop band that was showcasing Ares weapons. They were using blanks, so we swapped them with live rounds, and faked a suicide of the manager, making it look like he was sleeping with one of the girls.

>>54168928
Just so you know there's going to be a big 'Magical Realm' response to anything involving breast expansion.
Instead let them figure out how they want to embarrass her and then the other roles can come in naturally. Maybe they have the sam dump a bucket of pigs blood on her from above or something.

>>54169867
Real pig's blood chummer? Do we look like we're made outta nuyen?

But I think the pervy magical realm bit works as identifying the Johnson as a big of a sleaze. They can always turn the job down y'know?

>>54166791
With Zorastrians, it's not actually about giving yourself to the natural elements, it's about keeping your disgusting corpse off the natural elements.

>>54169867
>Pigs blood
>Not HMMVV infected blood
Ruin the concert AND her career

>>54170107

Actually had a friend play a Zoroastrian mage in my last campaign. Very unconventional mages in a way.

>>54170825

I think it's the difference between creating a scandal and possibly killing someone.

Question: How much cargo and people can you fit in an Ares Roadmaster?
I'm totally not planning to go on a vacation in East Europe and load on guns and other necessities

So. In the last thread i was discussing my campaign and a gang my players would have to go up against in a future run; Bioware Addicted Clown Gangers who kidnap VIPs for Ransom and run back alley Bioware Clinics.

A very helpful anon brought sonething to my attention.

>At that point, they're armed, dangerous, and have no friends. Bad things in the Underworld. They're essentially free game for anybody to take out and snatch up their old operations.

So, with their shtick; should i have these Gangers be supplied by Organ Leggers? Also what do y'all know about Organ Leggers?

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>>54171483
>Also what do y'all know about Organ Leggers?

They legg organs.

>>54171473
Close to a metric ton all told, more if you can get your GM to let you grab a trailer and hitch.

It's got room for eight metas don't it?

>>54171584

Eight trolls. All on a road trip fastfood diet.

Gaschamber on wheels.

>>54171584
I mean yeah it have 8 seats
2 for the driver and co
6 seats left at the back. 6 people worth of space does not seem a lot for intercity transport

>>54171695
It's more than enough for most runner teams if you insist on being soccermom. Just remove two seats for cargo space, more if you're trying to score enough equipment outfit an entire gang.

>>54171483

I'd say the main problem here is that their operation is actually pretty valuable. More so than an Organ Legger setup, or at least the average one. You could consider giving them protection from some other larger outfit (maybe yaks or russkies) in exchange for the bioware.

I don't think either one would be too happy with the deal but it's beneficial for both of them unless the clowns fucks with the completely wrong people.

A bit derailed from your idea on Organ Leggers, sorry about that.

>>54171673
Well he is totally not touring Eastern Europe.

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>>54171473
Doesn't completely answer your question, but this might help:

>Vehicles also have a non-combat attribute, Seating, which determines both how many people can fit in the vehicle (including the operator) and also, in a pinch, additional cargo space—one ‘seat’ can also be used to hold up to 250 kilograms of cargo. Seating (for people) can be exceeded by up to 150 percent by stuffing people inside, but doing so decreases the vehicle’s Speed and Handling attributes by one.

SR5 461

>>54171695
>>54171992
>>54171584

So the roadmaster can carry 1.5 metric tons of cargo if you remove all the passenger seating.

My runners looted a techno's brain as part of a job.

They're either selling it to a megacorp or the black market. What's the ballpark I should offer them?

>>54172441
How is it still alive?

>finally getting back into the game after our groups month long hiatus tomorrow
>remember that we stopped in the middle of an investigation/Decker bit and i'm playing a physical adept with two logic

Shit.

>>54172676
Time to Inspector Clouseau your way to victory chummer.

So what the fuck is up with the undiluted autism that is the Book of the Lost? This is giving me a headache just trying to figure out what the writers were trying to do.

>>54171827
Its alright dude. This will be my first attempt at running Shadowrun.

Aside from general knowledge if the lore of the world i dont know much about how Gangers work and such. I need the new perspective.

Can you guys hook me up with some of that knowledge?

>>54173221

4th edition book Vice (in the OP pastebin) has a whole chapter on gangs, with sample gangs. That should give you enough to go on. Bout 20 pages worth in total, but the chapter on gang life in general is no more than 4 pages so it's easy reading.

>>54173035
Fellating Echo Chernik's artistic cock, mostly.

>>54164833
Wrong

>>54166641
Lofwyr bitte geh

>>54173035
Whats wrong with it?
t. didn't read it

>>54161825
Horizon grabbed it I'm fairly sure.

>>54165287
Any redeeming aspects are cancelled out by the huge surge of bullshit.

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>>54172441
10-50% of whatever the run was paying for extra goodies.

>>54173515
Alright. Skimmed through it a bit when i was makig the city. Seems a good book so far

>>54174436
It's literal nonsense: they talk about codes and ciphers that in many instances they straight up forgot to include, there's several unintelligible chapters about dystopian cyberpunk Taco Bell and the illuminati, and all in all it's a bunch of complete gibberish masquerading as somehow relevant lore that has never come up before.

Tell me about what happened to communism, /srg/. I'm trying to have my runner's next job be doing the Neo-Comintern's dirty work but the wiki comes up dry, with the exception of Henan and a few soviet era leftovers still around like Vietnam, Angola plus Kurdistan and a few movements underground.

Are there any similar shadowy policlubs bent on world revolution/establishing a NWO?

Cutting the costs, what makes more sense:
Cyberware costs /2 or /3?
Deck costs /2 or /3?

>>54176369
Giving everyone more than 2Nuyen/karma
Adepts/MysAds will run out of things to spend money on because advancing for them costs money and karma and will be forced to buy shit like cars to help the group out instead of being homeless people who punch things and your sam/decker can actually afford to have a secondary role

My group decided to betray their Johnson after clearing it with their Fixer. Neither the nor their Fixer realizes how powerful of a man they pissed off.

From the Fixer's position, should be be 'retiring' for a few months or would he just get whacked for betraying a megacorp client?

How do you determine how much a run should payout? Any advice?

>>54176906
Browse through the listing of gear and try to find something you KNOW your PCs will generally want (an expensive focus, a cyberdeck upgrade, a cyberware upgrade, etc). Take the cost of that, and divide it by the number of runs you want them to go through in order to get it.

>>54176906
Take the book's guideline and triple the nuyen

>>54176933 is also decent, but can get tricky if players change their minds or have a character die and make another.

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Don't mind me. Just elfposting

>>54176906
How fast do I want the plot to advance and how much do I want to give them to survive the advancement?

My standard run reward is ~20K each, +/- roughly 15 or 5K respectively depending on negotiation/Impresing the Johnson/I've got plans for next session and want them to have enough cash to deal with it

>>54176728
Go with whatever you think would be more dramatically appropriate and have the larger impact on your players, as opposed to considering what would be more "realistic."

I know at first glance that sounds like you should whack the fixer, but stop to consider any interesting roleplay opportunities might be present if they were still alive and perhaps able to lend help/advice for getting out from under the Johnson's thumb.

>>54176969
I think then that the most dramatic next job is a suicide run the Johnson is being forced to give them as penance. It benefits the corp if they survive and sends a message if they don't. Best case scenario they accomplish the goal with half of them dying and their fixer's rep is tanked.

>>54177018
The Fixer* I should say, not the Johnson

>>54164685
Except that's already canon and Leonisation is part of the fruits of the research. Because the massive retooling of someones genetics on full meta rewiring scale is currently beyond reach.

>>54164685
mostly because metagenetics are somehow undetectable, or at least that's what I remember from 4e. Basically it was their handwave for why they can't just gene-therapy people into being mages.

>>54177949
Or clone mages

>>54177797
>Because the massive retooling of someones genetics on full meta rewiring scale
Technically, the genetics rewiring is here. Metaposeur. It's the metagenetics that are difficult as fug.

Have there been any new releases since Forbidden Arcana?

Is Alchemy still shit after Forbidden Arcana, if you want to do it with something like alchemical shuriken type stuff?

If it is, what would be good ways to fix it? Just make it a normal success test like spellcasting?

>>54177949
Metagenetics exist one layer removed from genetics; it's like flicking switches (genetics) that flick other switches (metagenetics). Except most genetic switches flip more than one metagenetic switch, and most metagenetic switches won't activate in conjunction with (or without) other metagenetic switches. Then factor in the less than perfectly complete knowledge of metagenetics that exists within the setting (even after decades of research), and you have something that's not that easy.

>>54178156
No new releases since then, no. Trog book is supposed to be next, haven't seen anything about the contents aside from a throwaway fluff line about making gyms out of old scrapyards.

As far as alchemy goes, they added a refrigerator that prevents preparations from decaying until they're removed, which is about the best thing you get from it.

>>54178156
Before Forbidden Arcana, I used to tweak Alchemy so the net hits on the (Alchemy + MAG vs Force) test used to finalize a preparation became the hits on the test when you activate it.

So if you roll 18 dice for Alchemy against a force 6 Ball Lightning Preparation, the Preparation's potency of 4 becomes the hits when you activate it instead of rolling Potency + Spellcasting.

I removed it from my houserules because no one plays Alchemists and Forbidden Arcana came out anyways.

>>54161583
Hey, at least his GM knows a Cyberpunk setting when he sees one.

My GM just realized that ghost in the shell is only superfical about cyber crimes and is a fod damn cyberpunk setting.
And he was telling us that while looking proud like a four year old that just build a "Dinosaur" out of three lego bricks and is waiting for a praise.

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Shadowrun needs more mechs. Seriously, get some fucking mechs.

>>54179170
Figure out a way to actually build one and sure.

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>>54179170
I mean you could put a rigger cocoon on a NeoNET Juggernaught.

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>>54179206
Been there, done that. Would be cool if the rulebooks had some more options, though

>>54179170
There's no reason for them to exist in Shadowrun's tech level though.

>>54179256
Haha, remember the time where Shadowrun had the technology to allow them intersystem space travel? Good times.

>>54179319
Please elaborate

>>54179319
Then play the edition where that was possible.
If you want to use "well, it happened once" as an excuse to put in something that doesn't fit with the current canon, you can't just pick out that element and force it into 5e.
1e was built on a completely separate fundament from 4e and 5e, and the editions are different enough to be effectively different games. You want to have mechas, play 1e - anything else is as canonical as putting pixies in CP2020.

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>>54179319
>Hey guys, we have this technology that allows us to wirelessly transmit our thoughts to control drones with effectively zero latency, meaning that there's no need to risk your body performing dangerous tasks, which means we can pick all this other cool shit into the drone
>Cool but I want to get in the robot

>>54179256
Yekka, the Dodge General Trailer is missing a bunch of things.

Drone workshop (aircraft repair), 4 medium drone
racks, rigger adaptation, rigger cocoon, specia
equipment (generator)

It's supposed to have all of those, but it has Extra Entry/Exit, Amenities: Middle, and nothing else in Chummer.

>>54179393
Hey, cool is king.

Sorry >>54179378
I'm not the poster from >>54179206

>>54179332
Pretty much as >>54179393
pointed out, 5e and 4e even more so have crazy high technology levels.

4e's idea of mass production was to pour the raw materials into a batch of nanobots and let them assemble the finshed product, hell it was even their way of constructing large buildings. (and for some reason there where nanites left in the finished construct, but that's just the usual quality of CGL writing)

That alone is such a crazy high standart of technology and to that comes the drone mind control, orbital habitats, nano-augmentation, fucking magic and A.I.'s.

With this level of technology, most economic problems of the shadowrun universe mostly exist bacaus of PLOT and people having their head so far up their ass that they can smell toothpaste.

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>>54179535
What that post was about (I presume) is how we continue to send manned space missions and flights in general today, even though automation is safer.

>>54179620
Well, then let me put it some other way.

You know how most people in shadowrun eat mostly soy and starch that looks and feels like real food ?

With the technology of 4e (and probably 5e) they could build orbital habitats, only to have them grow tomatoes and it could be done in an efficient manner.

You know why that won't happen in shadowrun ? Because littly timmy won't go rioting against the man if he get's his space tomatoes.

>>54179620
>>54179702

Also we DO avoid manned space flight as much as we can, but some things just need a human operator.

>>54179393
They do still have vehicles though and rigger cocoons, so mechs are really not that far fetched compared to other Shadowrun tech. I suspect the main reason they don't exist is they would most likely not be found in an urban environment where the bulk of Shadowrun's gameplay is supposed to take place, so no-one's ever got around to adding them.

If there was a Book of Erotic Fantasy-like work for Shadowrun - a third-party, half-serious, not fully explicit but still plenty erotic sourcebook that details how sex is used in-setting for pleasure, profit and plot hooks - what contributions would you make to it?
Whether it's something you always assumed someone would do with Shadowrun's tech level, something you'd do, something your character would do, applying real science to sex in the Sixth World or just conglomerating tidbits you've conjectured from canon, what would be your contributions to the Sixth World Kama Sutra?
Especially in Shadowrun, sex, sexuality and perversions of varying degrees are a big part of the setting and themes, so it's a shame to have a publisher that wears kid gloves around it and on top of that tends to ignore the existence of cybernetics, biosculpting and the Matrix. It would probably help new players and GMs a lot more than it would harm them to have a little fanbook out there with some hooks and advice so they don't have to feel guilty about "magical realm".

Just slipping in on the mech discussion here

>>54179771

I honestly think Urban enviorment is the most logical place for them to be, as High Threat Security or possibly anti-riot suits. The problem with Mechs if you try to apply just a little bit of logic to them (giving a lot of imaginative leeway) is that they're not very fast, or effective in any kind of battlefield situation. At least not more effective than tank that could be built with the same technology level.

>>54179822
>tends to ignore the existence of cybernetics, biosculpting and the Matrix.

But they don't.

And I don't get the whole complaint about wearing kid gloves around sex. Sex is there. It's pretty much stated in the core books that whatever you can imagine, it's there. Both astral, virtual and in the flesh. Do you really need someone to write a detailed list of every sex act imaginable? I don't see many complaints about the lack of a Sixth World cookbook. Why don't they go into more detail and release a book about food in Shadowrun?

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>>54179771
I'm not saying they're far-fetched, I'm saying that there is no reason for anyone to want them aside from wanting to be a gundam pilot. Vehicles exist because giving everyone a VCR is expensive and impractical.
There aren't any civilian or military applications that can't be adequately replaced with a decent pilot program and a rigger in a van a block away.

Consider the Tachikoma; the entire rear half of the drone, with exception of the web shooter turrets, exists purely to serve as a rigger cocoon. Roughly half of its cu ft for a bucket stapled on the back. It's like if a drone and the pope mobile had a baby.
>>54179405
Hrm. Looks like the original writer just copied the main vehicle. I'll sort it out.

>>54179865
An Urban battlezone sure, but just a standard urban environment occupied by normal citizens? They'd be overkill for most purposes, you would probably only run into them if you got to the point where your team is routinely offing HTR teams.

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>>54179865
In my game I let the rigger fluff the absurd speed stat (for a mech) on his Juggernaut as being able to switch between walker and those rollerblade thingies from Geass (I think it was a thing in Geass, right). Anyways, unless you construct a setting in which armored walkers are the only logical choice, you'll be hard pressed to find an application for mechs. Doesn't mean they're not cool and wouldn't be produced at least by whackos for underground fighting matches... I mean we have people playing jousting on motorbikes.

>>54172947
I wish there was a quality for that. Dumb Luck - spend edge to be useful in a scene.

>>54180108
>They'd be overkill for most purposes
Like I said, probably Riot control (if any purpose for them). But even in an Urban battlezone it's a large, slow moving target. Or you skimp out on protection in favor of more speed in which case it's a fast moving, large glass canon.

>>54180149
Oh yeah I'm not denying that they're cool or that they probably exist in some form. Hell, I'd put mecha boxing battles in my Shadowrun as prime time entertainment. That's probably one of the most logical places you'd find them now that I think about it.

>>54179822
I would write a huge section in bunraku to properly establish the canon of personafixes.

>third party
And then I would wave $5 in front of Coleman and make him sign off on it as first party

So my frst ever Shadowrun game is coming up. Im running it, I've played it quite a bit.

As most Shadowrun DMs do I imagine, the setting got a few tweaks from me; Corps are still big but dont pull as many strings as they do in vanilla, the EU fell, the US stayed one country, Mexico stayed Mexico, an economic boom happened in the US, Mexico, and Japan while Canada hit the worst recession in its history.

Decided to keep things simple and base the location and first run after a movie.

The movie?

William Shakespear's Romeo + Juliet

I decided to make a Shadwrunified version of Verona Beach; make it as if the Sunset Strip and Vegas Strip had a one night stand and left the kid on the front doorstep of a church after it was born. Tons of Neon, churches, religous statues, and everyone wears flashy clothes, carries flashy guns, and drives a flashy car. From the rich and powerful to the bums and dregs of society.

Where a centuries long feud between two familes that started back in 12th century Italy has settled its roots in Southern California.

And where a Former Runner turned Priest calls a few chummers for a job.

A job to protect the recently wed scions of these two feuding familes, and unbeknownst to them; prevent them from dying by their own hand.

Whatcha think?

>>54179822
>>54180361
Same, but I'd make it clear that actually turning someone into a full-body puppet is expensive and inefficient so it doesn't really get used all that much, outside of a handful of rich executives looking for Dryad stepford wives. It just doesn't make sense to have it be widespread in a world where massive income inequality means there'd be no shortage of women looking for a stable income, ie prostitution.

>Hey Boris, my slav, I have an excellent idea to improve business for our chain of strip clubs!
>Yes, Vlad?
>Instead of hiring the many, many unemployed lady elves who wish to dance in our clubs for an appreciable amount of money, we should instead kidnap homeless women from Redmond! Then we could subject them to a risky neurosurgery that costs tens of thousands of nuyen and leads us to have basically the same thing! So instead of pretending they want to fuck our customers they will THINK they want to fuck our customers!
>You have terrible business sense Vlad. This is why you will never climb higher within the Vory. That and your unwillingness to join us in our weekly Yak skinnings.

Widespread Bunraku just doesn't make sense, unless its being used by as a moral panic by Horizon to get higher ratings and encourage people to visit Horizon brand Happy Massage Parlors (tm).