/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

question to changeling bros out there

what would be a good kith/seeming to play off the archetype of poisoner?

e.g. durance was entirely focused on them either brewing poisons, testing with them, etc and having it by their shtick

>>54129976
Brewer Darkling? Might wanna dual kith.

So what other world altering fuckery happened in nWoD? You've got the Rite of Return burning a portion of reality and sending echoes in Fate. You've got the death of Father Wolf and the fall of Pangaea. The Fall of Atlantis. What am I missing?

>>54130013
Brewer is one of the most boring Kiths

>>54130026
Alright, what's the most ridiculously overpowered Kith pairing of the lot?

>>54130026
Someones going to play it man.

>>54130047
Oh I'm not that guy, I just think a Kith that revolves around making booze and bieng able to tell what a liquid is boring

>>54130054
Question stands!

Source image is from The Secret World.

It recently got a relaunch. The relaunch is okay. Don't play for a month, it's so okay it's bad.

>>54130279
Yeah, it's just aggressively bland. I think the animations lose me almost instantly, and there's nothing to really win me back, even though I have given it several chances.

>>54130020
The Fall of the Camarilla had some very serious undertones for vampirekind, the consequences of which still reverberate, and are starting to look potentially very ominous (the whole Strix thing).

Boy why the fuck is Mage Revised still so expensive, fucking 2 dollars less than 2nd edition awakening

>>54130389
Though of 'em. Sorry, should have made it clear: Things with huge metaphysical impact on the world.

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So how about this for a fucking alternative to the Free council art? a group of mages from diffrent cultures/techne styles giving small demonstrations that might job peoples imaginations on how to work their own inspired path.

>>54130437
Because people are still buying it because M20 is shit.

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>>54128289

Enjoy your dickgirl werewolf nun.

>>54130865
So does revised/better versions of Mage that aren't M20 acutally have like, dots for each sphere in a smilair vein as Awakening? what does Ascension spell casting look like, casue I sure can't fucking tell with M20

>2 threads

Geez louise

It'd be nice if they'd publish some 2e versions of the Vampire covenant splatbooks. The Invictus one was a work of art. They're still pretty much applicable to gameplay, but eh. Rehashing is their thing right now, so another version couldn't hurt.

>>54130909
Yes, and it lists common sphere effects for each level in that sphere (as in, say, an isolated Prime 2 effect that involves no other spheres.) as well as all of the permutations on the magic system. It has less clutter and accomplishes more than M20 does in half of the page length. If you go get M20, just consider it a list of hacks for the previously published versions of mage.

Ignore the "Ascension war is over" BS and you're good to go.

>>54129976
Darkling or Wizened with a slightly altered Venombite Kith.

>>54130877
There is so much wrong with this sheet

"True Hermaphrodite" is not a Metis deformity, first off.

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>>54131574
Of course it's over. Everyone knows that the Technocracy won.

>>54131574

Also, ignore Revised's paradox rules, because they're just ridiculously "fuck you"

>>54132172
Normally i don't answer to mage stuff but you are right. The Ascension war is over. Dead and done. What the Technocracy does is essentially an extended policing mission.

The consensus is fixed and the magical worldview is broken.

>>54130813
That looks like a council of diverse individuals. Almost how the free council is described! Too many white males, queer it up. I want a dickhead peaking out of that woman's skirt on the far left. Draw some gender confusion in the eyes of the fucking white male to the right of her. Make that monk guy next to the pround beautiful african woman in the back look more african too, curl up his beard. This too thin moustachioed guys look queer enough. Their leader's a woman, so they're properly matriarchal, we don't need to change that... Okay, just make those changes and...

WHITE WOLF APPROVED!

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So i was the guy designing his own Arisen for VtM in the last thread. Thanks to the fuckheads Opening 2 threads btw both of them not Working.

Anyways i want your experiences with antagonists or allies from other splats. Best if you redesigned the splat to fit your needs but its also cool if you used them as written.

And lets Refrain from political debate. Thats 10 times worse than the lowest depths of magefaggotry.

>>54132505
Mmmmm.. a clean street... my anus is relaxing and my bowels are stirring. But to street shit alone, or with just one other man is like being a man without a moustache. So my brothers, prepare your anuses, and join me!

Pants down, squat, and squirt!

I'm planning Giovanni Chronicles, but it seems like you get bounced around left and right.

Has someone run it before? What did you change about it?

>>54132617
It's ... just one railroad after another, not my kind of story.

>>54132617
pretty much all of vamp pre-mades are just being railroaded.

>>54132651

The opening scene is pretty cool. And I'll expand on the setting, crib elements from transylvania chronicles, make people act less retarded and offer more sidequests.

I'm less running it, more using it as the overaching plot.

>>54132617
I ran the Transyvanian Chronicles & the Giovanni chronicles together, i stretched the Sires from Giovanni chronicles back to the start of the TC, and it worked ok.

You have got to run your own stories in between though which is pretty easy to do since in TC the characters are given the chance to become princes of towns in transyvannia, we had alot of fun with each player being a prince of a town and what happened during the various wars, when the sabbat started to be formed etc

>>54132957
Do you have your notes?

>>54132968
fraid not, this was at least 15+ years ago and i didnt even write many notes at the time

>>54132976

Understandable. Any examples of stories that you told? Inspiration for DA intrigues?

So here is my first ever Werewolf for W:tF
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0VW4CVFFi8S-i1xWLYyqEgspwUP6eG3eoBVVPWw1hA/edit?usp=sharing

His first pack was from Chippewa Falls Wisconsin and on the outside appeared to be a biker club called the Hellhounds. All of the Wisconsin packs were formed into one big alliance against the powerful spirits in the great lakes, and the vampires in Chicago. When something stirred in Lake Michigan the Packs moved on it and tried to put it down. They were devastated as what was thought to be old champ acting up turned out to be something far more ancient, powerful, and alien.

The survivors fled inland, as far away from the great lakes as they could get. Which is why he is currently in the great plains as far away from the lakes and large bodies of water as he can get.

So how does he look?

>>54130813
Looks very boring. Better than the gayapalooza but not what I would go with. Also, what's really Free Council about it? The Free Council is the Order closest to Sleepers, so showing them as using these traditionally occultic and mystic practices and tools doesn't really strike me as representative of what they're about. I mean you've got chalices, a ritual athame, beads, and what looks like a bowl of blood? Shit, the chalices and dagger are actually explicit magical tools for some of the Paths and other Orders. A fair few of them straight up look like old Mages as well. No, ideally to me they should be shown as integrated with Sleepers and studying them. Been a while since I brushed myself up on Awakening fluff, but I recall that they had things like a program grimoire, a magic automaton, a grimoire made from a very popular Sleeper fantasy series that parodies the Diamond Orders, Sleeper tools and electronics as magical tools, and even a different interpretation of magic entirely known as the Ars Nova. They should also be dressed relatively normally, in my opinion. Relatively.

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I would like to address the issue of sidebars.

There is a concept called "cultural erasure". Loosely put, if a person feels their particular tribe is not represented in the dominant culture, they feel invisible. They are more prone to suicide, depression and general poor mental health.

For some time (centuries), trans and gay people have been on the fringe. They have not been represented, or if they have, it has not been positive.

The sidebars, the heavy use of LGTBIQ characters in the writing, all of these are efforts by White Wolf and OPP to be inclusive, to show people who are isolated - and who, despite what many of you would like to believe, play these games and pay cash for the cash throne - that they can and should be concluded.

That was my point, and nothing more.

Since then, observing the... comments... I conclude two observations. First, it is heavy handed and awkward because that is historically how White Wolf writes about things they don't understand or know about (Gypsies, KoTE, Hengeyoki, city books for places they never went, etc.). This is not the fault of the cause they are trying to advance - it simply shows the lack of skill and nuance necessary to do it effectively without devolving to satire.

Second, that over-representation comes at the cost of other people feeling their voices are heard. If the default character is fringe, then by necessity, all other minor characters and villains become mainstream. In some ways this echoes the themes of the protagonists being eternal outsiders, but it ignores other people who might be outsiders for other reasons.

I agree completely that "gay" is a preference, not a defining characteristic. Just more lazy writing, folks.

We need to be reasonable here. There is bugger all moderation, it's on us all to act like adults. We need to avoid forcing words in each other's mouths, drawing conclusions about a person's entire life and character from one political assertion.

>>54132957
my only regret is not getting to play the 4th giovanni chronicle.

Not sure my players would have liked it, since they would have had to stop playing their 800+ elders and played new giovanni with their elderss playing the antagonists but i liked the story in the 4th one.

I vaguely remember some stories involving Baali in them, one of the characters played a salubri (and was fully prepared for his death which happened and was really a cool moment esp alongside the last of the cappadocian storyline) and he and the group were trying to root them out in their domains. They really hated the Tremere (one character was an assamite and once the convention of thorns was done he went full on fuck the tremere which was amusing when he ended up in the sabbat he had to share it with Goratrix and , and so there was alot of posturing and fighting with them)

I think they main thing you have to do is make the NPC's in those book come to life, my players loved Anatole and Lucita, they were friendly rivals with Vycos and eventually Goratrix and hated Etrius and co.

>>54133041

The problem, anon, is that I don't like to be preached at.

I don't mind trans people, nor gay people, not other minorities - I'm not american, so I'll use the word loosely.

However, the writers have an agenda, and an americentric one, american-left "woke" aligned. Fuck, on reddit people were bitching about 16 years old in clubs drinking being pedophilia.

Present me with a situation. Let me form my own conclusions. However, don't tell me that a man embraced by the Ventrue in 1500s would be okay with embracing a modern-day tranny because vampires don't have gender, therefore they subscribe to gender queer theory.

>>54133076
same guy above, i became a Cappadocian fan boy after running the Giovanni chronicles. I remember reading about the Harbingers of Skulls in revised and i was so happy, i fucking love them.

They do the whole tragic downfall thing alot better than the Salubri, and have a much better revenge angle. I hated what they did with the salubri antitribs.

>>54132505
I wanted to ask: Did you already choose the Utterances for your antagonist?

>>54133113
What does a 16 year old drinking have to do with the love of feet?

>>54133165

Paedophilia. ESL here.

>>54133041
>This is not the fault of the cause they are trying to advance
I'm actually fairly sure that in the course of these discussions, very few, if any, people took issue with the politics and minorities themselves. It was really just the presentation and oversaturation that irked people.

To respond to your post in general, I sincerely doubt that these sidebars do one lick of actual good to help LGBTQ whoevers avoid cultural erasure. Or at least they don't make any meaningful difference. Gay people and such have a very large and vibrant presence in first world countries and the internet. Large Pride events that have been taking place for decades, an abundance of characters representing them in fiction across all platforms despite them being such a small minority. So please don't assert or imply that these sidebars somehow contribute to LGBQTEs being represented. If there are LGBLTs clinging to these sidebars for representation, I would say that they need a life outside of these games.

Fuck man, the issue isn't even gay and trans people being in the books and games. I'm all for it. The issue is please don't slap me in the face with your double-ended rainbow dildo.

>>54133188
I know that's what they meant, I was just subtlety hinting that they spelled it wrong.

That's right, there is a "a" between being a foot fetishist (creepy but okay), and the sex offender registry.

What would be a good way to play an Apostate character? Like in terms of what they think magic is and how it works, and their stances on the various groups and creatures? I'm thinking of making an Apostate character to hold in reserve, maybe with that merit that allows you have your Daimon as sort of a mentor/magical spirit guide.

>>54133202
Atmajakki probably liked them, though I think they just somehow took solace in games about horrible misery to calm their own horrible misery.

>>54133235
i cant tell if this is oWoD or Chron

>>54133246
Awakening.

>>54133239
>I think they just somehow took solace in games about horrible misery to calm their own horrible misery.
Seems counterintuitive.

>>54133113
>However, don't tell me that a man embraced by the Ventrue in 1500s would be okay with embracing a modern-day tranny because vampires don't have gender, therefore they subscribe to gender queer theory.

Before there was a Humanity cost to embracing I could actually see it. Remember, one of the most common embrace practices is to find someone who will be completely loyal to you while also explaining new and strange concepts. Yes its also done with Ghouling, but the point still stands, and its still a thing that is done.

Doesn't nescessarily mean that every 1500s Ventrue is gonna agree with the concepts they are then informed about, but then again you never really know how the mind of someone who's been around and kicking for 500 years is gonna work

Could be anything from exceedingly embracing of new concepts (and running around in a cringeworthy display of crossdressing and misused terminology) to a violent reaction of a desire to kill because to them its something utterly repugnant, or anything in between those two extremes, and possibly some things outside of those two extremes.

>>54133282
Don't ask me, I know not the horrors of having body dysmorphia does to the mind and what forms of escapism might help it, friend.

>>54133261
That is a pretty vague question desu.

decide on the reason they are an apostate first is it their own choice or are they just a smelly bastard and other groups wont invite them?

Without proper training i expect they think magic is more like miracles that happen to them if they concentrate really hard, esp if they have a Daimon mentor, probably developing a Jesus complex or some shit.

Perhaps the jesus complex is the reason they are an apostate, who the fuck wants a somebody who things they a miracle worker and the 2nd coming around ;)

>>54133041
You should refer to the last thread with the guy who was on about Beast. You've got to hone your craft. Sidebar trolling and mage posting won't get improve your trolling. It's boring. Predictable.

>>54133295

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. I meant that the motivation for his embrace, despite societal norms of the present and the time of embrace, is some sort of kinship because "Vampires have no gender too."

I'm not against trans characters, I'm against the whole "stunning and brave" thing WW has going on.

>>54133239
>Atmajakki probably liked them

Yeah but Atmajakki is yet another sycophant of the OPP forums, just like users like Arcane Arts who would suck the non-gendered dick of anything OPP releases for Chrod.

It would probably buy into a Chrod version of Gypsies if all OPP did was change the name to Romani and put 2 sidebars about transexuals every page.

>>54133326
Trannies have been through so much already though, the transformation into a vampire wouldn't be that hard.

Trannies make the best new vampires. They already have the experience...

>>54133347
I would by Romani 2e aswell.

>>54133306
As a rough outline I was thinking something like a guy who refused membership into the Orders just to be left alone, but still winds up getting involved in things. No Jesus complex, guy knows he's a wizard and that what he's doing is magic. That would fit more for an Ascension apostate, or just a Hollow One I suppose. Rationalizing reality warping as being the second coming sounds like a paradigm.

>>54133347
Honestly i'd give Romani 2e a peep, there was some.... okay ideas that could have been done when completly seperated from that awful book.

>>54133385
hmm, seems abit mish mash. Wants to be left alone but gets involved in things...

Pick one. Your either a hermit or not.

>>54133458
Not that guy but a player charecter kinda -has- to be someone that gets involved in things, he doesn't say that they do it willingly after all.

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Fellow Changeling fans! Please help an Anon out and offer some feedback on this idea for a new hobgoblin:

https://pastebin.com/dSySwTJi

>>54133458
There are plenty of reasons why a character desiring to be left alone might still be involved in conflicts. Mages don't exist in a vacuum after all, and even their internal conflicts can be enough to swallow up people at the fringes.

>>54133113
This. The whole shtick is pretty retarded and to reflect american Problems in an RPG is at best retarded. Most European Continental first world nations don't have the toxic Climate between gays and the right Wing. The most extreme Position in the political discussion that matters in Germany for example is that you shouldn't call it marriage to protect the normal family and instead call it lifepartnership (little oversimplified nur our right Wing populists are lead by a lesbian).

So the whole leftie american shtick is really retarded. Don't bring your University campus Trans special snowflake Identity politics bullshit here. But then Bitch in the next moment that a Vampire that likes young clubbers and freshly embraced vamps (15-16 at the youngest) is a pedophile like a sexually repressed puritan.

>>54133530
Don't know shit about Changeling beyond the basics but I'm a sucker for spooks so I love it.

>>54133348
They can't even cope with the genitalia they were born or sex they were born with, desu I think they'd not be able to handle the battle with the beast any better. Embracing a trans is just dooming a troubled soul to the fate of a draugr.

>>54133720
This. We can pretend that trans people function as well as other members of society but thats not true. Suicide rates clearly show that trans people are not adapted and the overwhelming majority has mental problems.

For the overwhelming majority of clans trans people are not really an option. And they are not really Masquerade friendly either. Older Vamps have experienced enough societal changes to know that Trans people can be banned from mortal society very quick.

man, I'd really fuckin kill for a game

Shada#1090 on discord if anyone is looking for players

Okay so, Lions of Zion, obviously took a knocking during the holocaust but also fought hard enough to stay around. Now I imagine that the Lions of zion are gathering in Israel to see it protected from Nephandi/Technocracy intrusion aaaaaaaand... probably a clash between the Lions that protect israel and the ones still across the globe?

>>54133720
i was more implying that trannies are already beastly so the tranformation into a proper one wouldnt be hard. oh well.

Just read the Monday meetings notes.

Stewart Wieck was great blah blah blah, he created Mage the ascension, blah blah blah..

THEN I RAN IT INTO THE GROUND BY LETTING SATYROS BRUCATTO NEAR IT and he died.

is how it should have read..

>>54133557

Nevermind that the whole age of consent 18 is high even in the developed world.

Thank fucking god V20 is all I need.

>>54134256
Wouldn't embracing a trannie be a horrible idea? Kindred cease to develop mentally at the time of the Embrace, iirc. So as the statistics apparently show trans people as being in very poor health mentally, wouldn't they be stuck like that forever with no chance at getting better? And as the other anon pointed out they would have the Beast foisted on them as well.

>>54134511
Um no. Vampires can learn shit after being embraced so they dont cease to develop mentally.

The whole static thing is no longer the case.

>>54134511
See >>54133768

>>54134507
This. After the playtest i am not going to touch V5 with a ten foot pole.

18 is moronic. There are countless really retarded cases were boys end up as sex offenders because of that. And if you meet someone in a club thats clearly a sign that a) He/She was able to cheat the bouncers so probably doesn't appear 13 b) He/She probably has the mental capacity to consent to Sex because the person in question is at least 16.

>>54134542
Developing mentally is different than learning. Like for example a vampire embraced at 20 would always behave like how he was when he was 20. I'm almost definitely sure that this is still the case in Requiem and Masquerade.

>>54134623
Child vamps stay Child like. They might learn etc. but they don't have a fundamental change of character. Puberty and aging is stuff that effectively doesn't kick in for static Vamps

>>54134623
No, this argument has already happened. 2e got rid of that shit.

The whole embraced as a teenage, act like teenagers forever is gone. get over it. Theres no excuse for you to play a fucking edgy whiney bitch forever now.

>>54134623
Well seeing as neither Thousand Years of Night or Blood and Smoke have a mention of people being stuck at their embraced level of emotional maturity, I would assume that "being stuck" would be a touchstone functioning like the one where the vampire holds onto the way things were in a desperate attempt to keep their Humanity.

So yes, in theory you could have a Trans vampire with an appropriate touchstone being stuck in the mental position they were embraced at for risk of humanity loss, but its by no means necessary

>>54134753
But muh vampire is dead inside and has no emotions...

which they also got rid off. Thank fuck, Again no more excuses for "im a emotionless badass" now.

>>54134822
I mean, Vampires still have emotions, they just also have the world's hardest nostalgia boner for their emotions before they were embraced

>>54134687
>>54134753
>>54134822

Thats kicking interesting shit from the Game because some players suck.

I think a Child that develops his intellectual capacity for 600 years but from a Child like position can be a real interesting character. The Character has a fundamentally different outlooks and tackles Problems in a very different Way. And whoever believe that children can't be even more dangerous than adults should read Enders Game.

If some fucker is a Problem player don't allow him a childvamp. That easy.

>>54134952
Well yeah, obviously a Child who was Embraced is gonna be an extremely different character than an Adult that was Embraced, but that Child Vampire is not forever stuck with the emotions of a Child. Yeah, they are probably gonna go sociopathic quickly from The Beast, probably have some serious issues otherwise, but they aren't stuck in the mindset of a child forever.

>>54135117
unless of course they got a touchstone which holds them to acting like such. Which is totally a thing that could be. Hell it could even be a thing you mandate a player to take if that is what would fit your game.

>>54135117
>>54135152

I guess we mean the same. I am just saying that a Child vamp has a VERY different Development. He doesn't experience puberty or other mortal Development steps. So he has to develop with a childs mindset as basis. With experience he will stop certain childish behaviours because they damage him but other child like view points will prevail because he has the brain structure of a child and Never had the changes of puberty.

>>54134822
>implying bad players just suddenly stopped being bad players just because they removed things from the game

>>54131605
Could you elaborate on this?

>>54134753
But under the Broken Covenants section in the Core book, it heavily implies that children stay the same. Though it could just be cultural as the children were just pushed out of society into the Children's Crusade. Which wouldn't give them any option to really develop and would just reinforce the mental state.

>>54133935
why a clash? How would other Lions clash with the Lions in Israel?

How do you guys design the shadow for your setting? Do you make a unique one for each possible gameline (mortal, Werewolf, Mage, etc.) or do you have a 'share universe' of some sort.

Is the book of spirits worth getting to help design the local shadow and it's politics?

>>54135949
Much like Arcadia and other locations that are shared in my CofD games I've run they are the same. But location and sometimes game line do color them.

The shadow is the shadow but it is colored by Location. Miller Park in Milwaukee's shadow is not the same (but has similarities) as the shadow in Al Capone's Hotel in Chicago.

Just like Mages take their Shadow Play through the cleaned up Tourist parts of Arcadia, and changelings come from the rest of Arcadia. Think of it as being the difference between going to visit real Mexico vs. Cancun Mexico.

>>54136216
Isn't Changeling Arcadia explicitly separate from Mage Arcadia?

Since vampire's fear of fire seems to be more instinctive/magical than rational, would they be more prone to frenzy/rötschreck in a town located inside a volcano's crater? Not rolling all the time, just a +1 to difficulty with maybe the chance to get used to it after some decades. What if they don't know it's a volcano?

>>54135152
That's not how a touchstone works. The only concievable touchstone for something that *makes* you act like a child would be a parent figure, ghouled and dominated into not questioning your status as an eternal child.

>>54136248
Yes. And Mummy Fate is an entirely different thing to both. There's not enough published about it to make guesses as to how it interacts with the rest of the WoD cosmology, thankfully.

Unless they've printed off that Changeling Arcadia is now an emanation realm or some other bullshit, I guess.

>>54133385
Considering the benefits of Order membership, your character must have some strong feelings to want to remain independent. Maybe they're paranoid, or really abrasive, or somehow they soured on the only Order that would fit them. The last option gives you backstory and plot hooks - what happened exactly?

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>>54132123

http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Metis_condition
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Lore-speaker_Gron
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Banana_Split
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Voula_Kostikidas

When BananaSplit was statted up in Rage: Warriors of the Apocalypse, the term hermaphrodite was used. Additionally, go back to the tribe books. The sample characters have listed Metis deformities that aren't included in the core book.

>>54136355
He might just be a raging paranoid. Imagine: you're a normal bloke and you wake up a Wizard one day. Hammering on your front door is some gothed up slag screaming that you're going to learn and learn well, your living room window is now a portal to a CEO's office with Gandalf in a powersuit who is offering you a deal you can't refuse and what looks like a fat 40 year old weeabo wearing a hello kitty ejaculation is trying to talk to you about the benefits of something called the virtual adepts through your microwave clock. Oh, and your phone is asking you to submit to a loyalty check from control.

There is no way that finding out about the hidden world is going to leave anyone completely unaffected. Telling the world to fuck off is an entirely reasonable thing, even if it'll get you killed because nobody told you that ignoring your phone's requests to submit will result in the Terminator and his Gundam mate being pointed at your house.

>>54136472

They must get all the mage ass they want

>>54133261
>Awakening.
>virtual adept
But...
>loyalty check from control
But... uh... huh?

>>54136620
Then sub bits out for smarmy shits from the orders and seers. It's widely applicable with chopping and changing. Point is: No normal person who Awakens is going to take it particularly well. Being an Apostate isn't quite as bizarre as it seems, especially since the Orders approaching the newly awakened mage are probably going to come off a bit alien to them.

>>54136558
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAiwS24wPTE

>>54136668
You're right. I just like to mess around. Like just now:
>No normal person who Awakens is going to take it particularly well.
>Normal person
>Awakens
Hmmm...

>>54136704
Yes, because everyone who has ever Awakened is a completely off the wall neuroatypical whackjob.

>>54136742
The player base is.

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>>54136774
Okay. I'll grant you that.

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So, V5 is shaping up to be pretty terrible... and I don't mean in just the lore department (though that's certainly also an issue), but rather in terms of gameplay.

Me and some other old-timers from my VtM group decided to give the playtest a spin.

Hunger system is absolute crap (clunky, it stops being interesting after the first few times, and nobody likes getting "UR A MONSTER, UR A MONSTER, REMEMBER HOW UR A MONSTER, DUUURRRRRRRRRR" shoved into our faces every half hour, and the story we're being fed about the whole Anarch/Cammie split is... lackluster at best.

I'm not gonna write it off ENTIRELY based on a simple Alpha (or is it pre-Alpha?) playtest, because it could change completely for all I know, but I WILL say that I'm not gonna bother to pick up any V5 material if they stick with what they've already got.

It's currently shit, and I hope some of the V5 devs bother to actually read and think about negative feedback rather than just go "NO, OUR IDEAS ARE AUTOMATICALLY GOOD, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU'RE STUPID!" or some shit like that.

>>54136980
Could you go into detail about the hunger mechanic? It seems annoying but some people are saying it's only an issue if you use a lot of powers.

>>54136742
>He designs ever-stranger buildings, but he stopped taking contracts months (years?) ago. Rats and work and food are all he needs. The last part’s a chore, but the rats will provide. He found a forgotten greenhouse with edible plants, and caught and ate a rat — it told him to in its high-pitched, raspy voice.
>The mathematician sneaks into her old department to steal time on a supercomputer. She evades guards, starts coding, and locks herself in when security discovers her at last.
>On the other side of the world he has a shovel in hand when his mother comes in with a man from the bank, who starts in with accusations until that shovel starts smashing fixtures. He hears them say something about the police as they leave, but nobody disturbs him as he digs into the old earth basement.

>>54136558
You may now plunder mage boipucci at your leisure.

>>54136742
>>54137366
>She cuts them off, unfriends, screens her calls, and when the phone company cuts off her cell she appreciates the silence. But she still paints and sculpts and writes, even after she needs to steal her paint, repurpose trash for sculpture, and write poems on her own ragged clothes. She doesn’t see the eviction notice for days — she’s too busy scrounging.
>The priest plunges into ancient, ascetic practices. He girds his thighs with iron thorns and chants prayers in languages he barely understands until it all turns into pain babble: raw suffering instead of the ecstasy that’s supposed vaults him to the right hand of God.

>>54137437
Bussy. You want the word 'bussy'.

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>>54137610
Busey?

>>54137477
>>54137366
My mastigos spent days wandering Boston lost in a waking world vision of the infinite city of Pandaemonium trying to find his way out while distracted by demons taking on forms of people of his past. I feel less inventive than this.

Less self destructive at least I guess

>>54136980
anon, haven't you read that they got "overwhelmingly positive feedback"?

>>54133768
Yeah. I know several trans people, mostly MtF. They're largely chill folks I find, but transtrender types annoy them severely, because transtrenders got it into their heads that literally feeling like your body is *wrong* on a deep, visceral level is somehow a desirable experience.

>>54137706
Well, you are comparing yourself to Mage 2nd Corebook. There's no shame in falling short of it. On the plus side, you have a character who's not completely bonkers.

>>54137904
>not completely bonkers
REEEEEE
PLAYING IT WRONG

>>54137806
>anon, haven't you read that they got "overwhelmingly positive feedback"?

That part referred specifically to the very first playtesting in Berlin, where about 100 people got to try it for the first time.

>>54138157
So we should be blaming Germans, not Swedes?

>>54137706

Every awakening is different. Your background sounds pretty cool senpai.

My Thyrsus was a country boy who'd returned home after his ETS discharge from the army. While he was figuring out what he wanted to do with his life he started hearing voices from the livestock begging him to honor their flesh by building alters with their bones and hides.

Thinking he was going crazy he avoided everyone in his social circle while having visions about the hunt and the cycle of life. The visions became so strong he ran off naked into the woods with only a hunting knife for two weeks until he found an old farmhouse on the edge of his families property with an alter to 'the green man'. He saw himself in the old idol and he awakened.

His family and friends thinks it was either a PTSD episode or that he'd been doing drugs and his social ties are a little strained because of the odd people he's now hanging out with but he got away better than most mages during their awakenings.

Noob incoming.

I'm wanting to play CofD but I don't like sticking to one game. I want to play cross the lines (the 'big three' plus Changeling and maybe Promethean) but I'm always told that balance isn't a factor in such.

Should I stick to one game? Or can I maybe tone things down with some suggestions?

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>get vtmb off my backlog
>maybe, but Lu crazy! He once kill puppy because puppy bark all night and keep him up. You want me to trust puppy murderer?
Game is a buggy mess though.

>>54138602
Stick to one game. At least at first.

Every game specializes in different themes, so connecting different ones requires you to understand all of them and think of what they have in common. Doing that well requires experience.

Note that using other critters as NPCs is absolutely doable. It's mixing Pcs that's the problem.

>>54138602
Also, if you're doing a slice-of-life drama where everyone is important, balance is not an issue. It's when your characters meet dangers that different power levels can make some players lag behind.

>>54138602
Don't use Mages

>>54138693
>playing without Wesp5's unofficial patch

>>54138788
Mages can fix all of your life problems with ease, Anon.

You can't utilize Awakening at all regarding crossover.

>>54136248
It was unofficial and never included in any official supplement that they were separate but was stated by David B. Along with the idea that this was to prevent any mages dicking around with gentre and changelings.

>>54138602
>>54138947
>>54138808
Mages, Mummies and Demons occupy the highest tier power-wise. Running a game with them all is theoretically doable, but insane for a newbie. Like, whoa...

>>54139076
>It was unofficial and never included in any official supplement
More like the writers/authors are currently running with the assumption that they're completely separate places.

>the idea that this was to prevent any mages dicking around with gentre and changelings
Only Archmages can fuck around with the True Fae.

>>54139147
Yeah but I as the ST can throw it into the trash, and just go by what is written. The summon able fae are lesser, weaker fae beholden to the gentry and many of them live in resort Arcadia where mages travel.

>>54139222

Supernal Fae aren't actually fae, they're living symbols of Fate taken physical form. Supernal Arcadia isn't even a place, it's a code layout.

'True' Arcadia is an actual physical (albeit mutable) place.

>>54139278
Oh? This sounds like a good mage obsession for investigation. What if supernal Arcadia is a reflection of real Arcadia taken from the memory of contact with that world.

>>54139118
>Mages, Mummies and Demons occupy the highest tier power-wise

Why these three specifically?

>>54139377
That's not what the Supernal is.

Nor is that how it works.

>>54139377


The Supernal Realms aren't a reflection. It's a code layout of everything that is.

It isn't responsible for most shenanigans taking place in the WoD, but it represents most everything that IS taking place.

The Abyss being the other side of the coin.

>>54138199

maybe just europeans and their shit taste?

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>tfw VtES is the best CCG ever made but CofD/wod generals never discuss it

I'd rather discuss Mage metaphysics than Mage powerwankings

This is good

>>54137009
OK, so. Hunger is made up of 2 parts. Hunger, and Rouses.

Rouses are how many times you've used blood for something. You go from 1 to 5, marking a tick in the boxes every time you do something that would 'rouse the blood' (mostly things that would cost blood in the blood pool system)
You have hunger rated 1 to 5. Your rouses also help determine your hunger.

Every time you either a) end a scene or b) get to 5 rouses, you roll your rouses. Every die that comes up a failure adds 1 to hunger, to a maximum of 5. If you rouse a LOT in a scene, you might shoot your hunger straight to the roof. Once you roll, rouses drop to 0 and you go up again. So you could feasibly roll well and not really gain hunger.

Each hunger replaces a normal die with a hunger die in your core rolls. So if you have hunger 1, and you roll mental + socialize at a total of 8, you have 7 normal and 1 hunger die (ideally marked by a red die).
If the hunger die comes up a 1, you get a compulsion. More 1s = stronger compulsions.
You can spend a point of Composure to offset a compulsion.

You feed to reduce hunger. Animals reduce by 2, humans by 3, and killing a human reduces it by 5 (to 0, the ONLY way to do so).

Our group played it. It didn't seem to slow us down much at all. Yes, if you spend blood like a madman your hunger will be high, but... fuck, if everything you do is spending blood, how much do you feed during a NORMAL VtMRevised/V20 session?

>>54133041
>This is not the fault of the cause they are trying to advance...

Therein lies the problem.

Most of us, including those who have absolutely no objection to minorities characters in rpgs, still are buying the books to casually enjoy and entertain. We don't want to purchase political and social manifestos of the OPP staff, no matter how purportedly laudable their goals.

If a truly diverse array of characters were included, there would be no issue among most fans. However, as you observe, and to put it very kindly, the books are "heavy handed." First, gross overrepresentation of certain minority groups and almost always making their status the focus of the npc, highlights their "otherness" rather than persuading they are just like anyone else. Moreover, real "diversity" and "inclusiveness," is more than just cramming as many minorities du jour in a given book. It actually requires the inclusion of people and backgrounds that the author may not agree with or like, and not just as villains. Diversity does not mean everything from the left to far left.

When the defense of WW's lack of professionalism, poor writing, intentional offense to anyone who might have a different opinion (e.g., Pronoun sidebar in Moral remains), etc., amounts to little more than an individuals agreement with the author's politics as somehow inherently excusing all, increasing levels of aggressive push-back is to be expected.

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>>54133202
>double-ended rainbow dildo

>Free Council magical dedicated tool?

>>54139388
Mages can improvise a massive amount of different effects and can prepare many spells in advance. A dot of Arcanum gives you several powers that are in the book and all the powers that could legitimately be there.

Demons have fewer powers, but some are "I win buttons". Their Demonic forms are something to be reckoned with. They also dabble in occult strangeness outside of their personal abilities. With some preparation and risk, they can boost their power stat to 10.

Mummies start the game with power stat 10 and gradually get weaker. Their powers are more limited, but what they do get are on par with those of powerful Mages, and maybe even stronger.

>>54140399
Also, to kill a Mummy you have to do it repeatedly, until it sticks.

>>54140409
Or just remove his template with Prime :^)

>>54140337
What are the Whipping Boys doing in the front here? Not to mention the casual Obi-Wan Kenobis. God this is such a stupid piece of art.

>>54140337
And that's why my FC mage uses his drinking flask as his focus.

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>>54137668
>Busey?

>>54140433
I know you're joking, but some people seem to actually believe that.

>>54140433
Much like trying to mind control an Angel of the God-Machine that probably invites a clash of wills roll off against the Judges or something. Which if you're an archmage might be fine, not for the average wizard.

>>54137806
>haven't you read that they got "overwhelmingly positive feedback"?

from where, rpg.net or SwedeDracula's parents?

>>54140409
I remember some people arguing that a Mage could trap a Mummy, like in a temporal bubble or a pocket dimension, but then rare Mummyfags poked out their heads and said that the Mummy's god or whoever would free them from such a thing, even though he would be really annoyed by it.

>>54140337
>Order about Democracy, not being held back by ancient dogma, a fearless stance on technology and embracing Sleeper culture, and fighting back those who would enforce the Lie

>Lolidunno, just draw a pride parade whith faggots in bondage gear or something, then make two of them glow.

>>54138014
>not completely bonkers
>REEEEEE
>PLAYING IT WRONG

Mages need not be completely bonkers. however it is a very rare member of the Wise who is not a weapons-grade arrogant asshole.

>More douche, less crazy

Do Mummies make good waifus/husbandos ?

Can they take you to sleep with them for thousands of years?

>>54140498
>I can't solve this myself, so I run crying to daddy.
Also wasn't that in a Dark Ages book?
I can't imagine that working in a modern setting.

>>54139147

Didn't Awakening 2e explicitly state Mage Arcadia and Changeling Arcadia are not the same place?

>>54140517
Yes if you don't blasphemy against the judges in front of them or take their shit when they're sleeping. And yes, that's a Sadikh.

>>54140498
The Judge would save the Mummy, but it also depends on WHERE the Mummy has been sent to.

Also, if the Mage has Time, it doesn't matter. The Mummy will be trapped for a LONG fuckin' while, regardless if she/he is saved by 'daddy' or not.

>>54140545
Yes, which has been repeated by DaveB who also has said that he's quite irritated by all the writers who saw the identical names and thought "these must obviously be the same place".

>>54140409

So spam a dozen ES Unmaking Rotes at the stoopid mummers

Problem solved!

>>54140600

Which Arcadia has more gays and trans for WW writers to work with, Mage or Changeling?

>>54139900
>how much do you feed during a NORMAL VtMRevised/V20 session?

You make a character with a big blood pool and just leave the feeding for days not included in the game.

>>54140639

Didn't Dave's Mummy / Mage crossover section in Dark Eras Companion state that only archmastery can totally destroy a mummy (although other regular Practices can certainly put a crimp in their day).

>>54140675

I'm fairly certain, yes. From my experience this isn't much of an advantage against douche-wizards that won't actually want to kill you, to make you suffer.

>>54140522
more like one of the 42 creators of suffering decides that you should not snatch its servant from its grasp

>>54140734
"Its suffering isn't done yet, I have it for the rest of forever" is basically the gist

>>54140570
What would happen if the Mummy had reached Apotheosis?

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>>54140464
>>54140469
>>54140337

At least in the Free Council art, everyone looks like real people, albeit "neuroatypical," as SatyrDouche might say.

The Adamantine Arrow is apparently filled with rejects from Batman's rouge's gallery and Star Wars.

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>best art in mage 2e
>is this

>>54140750

Swole Jawa look more Guardians of the Veil than Adamantine Arrow.

Mummies and Demons can go full DBZ

But can they stop a prepared Master that knows PRECISELY what they're capable of?

>>54140750
come on, how awesome would it be for Adamantine Arrow detective McGarnagle to foil the plans of Tut-Amun and Scrap Lifter?

>>54140768

>if only they were snoring magic coke off the ass of a vampire stripper the art would be perfect

>>54140750
>>54140812

You realize that there are five "people" in the picture. You just can't see the Invisible Man in the foreground.

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>>54140796
>mage
>master
>prepared
>precisely

no, they fuckin' lose.

>>54134467
>Stewart Wieck was great blah blah blah, he created Mage the ascension, blah blah blah..

I am torn by this. On one hand the man created mage and produce a lot for the industry. On the other hand he prevented Brucatto from committing suicide..... because of him Brucatto is still breathing.

This thread is dangerously close to blowing up back into mage faggotry

>>54140337
I find this particular picture very funny. It just seems like they told someone to draw something that resembles mages being around gays and the dude or dudette who did it had no idea what the fuck to draw, came up with something stereotyped, and everyone just went with it.

>>54141006
I would rather have an eternity of mage posting than gender politics and religion.

>>54133010
There's a typo in the Specific Kuruth trigger: "abilityt"

I'd also move one of those Athletics dots to Drive, but that's just me.

Are you including the First Tongue and Totem merits, or just treating them as assumed?

>>54140644
Changeling, a thousand times Changeling

Why does it matter who can beat up who, again?

>>54140768
I still have to wonder why they are crucifying Marilyn Manson though

>>54141471
Once, a vampfag denied that my adorable hermetic could turn his vampire into a cushy pink beanbag.

HOW DARE HE DENY MY SUPREMACY

I will never forgive

>>54140644

Changeling has more faggots, mage has the very symbol of faggotry itself

>>54140663
Just do hunt rolls and roll for as much as you need, or just drain the fucker dry and stuff em in a dumpster if you're sabbat.

>>54141662
What rank would the Supernal entity of 'Faggotry itself' be?

>>54141681

IDK but it takes the form of a giant flaming pink triangle with a rainbow colored eye in the center, or drew pickles when it needs to be subtle.

>>54141681
Switches very rapidly between 6 and 9.

>>54141746

har dee har har

>>54141603

Remember to make them your farting chair, for he must be taught a lesson.

>you accidently step on a mage's toes

What happens next?

>>54141931
You apologize, he accepts.

You go do your job, and he goes investigating Mysteries.

The end.

>>54141968
What if they're low wisdom?

>>54141931
>>54141988
dead

>>54141988
>>54142027
Low Wisdom does not equal sadist or murderer.

>>54141988
Something bad will happen in your life.
Not obviously supernatural, but enough to make you miserable.

>>54142072
But anon

I thought all mages were sadists n' murderers?

>>54141331
Totem I have no Totem right now as I have no pack. First tongue is assumed.

>>54141603
How comfortable are they?

>>54141331
I fixed the misspelling and moved the dot as you Suggested.

I guess I'll add first Tongue but without a pack I don't think I can add Totem.

>>54141603
As long as you remember that a vampire who has Protean or Viscissitude can just as easily turn back the next turn

>>54142095
No, Anon, /tg/ is full of snuff fetishists who play mages as sadists and murderers

So what are Guardian Labyrinths like?
Are they all just pseudo-religious organisations or mystic groups which tell people half-lies in the hope they'll either get stuck in false mystic study, or see through the lies and Awaken?

Because I was trying to make a kind of Labyrinth which is something like a Cult to "The Lady" (Luck).
Basically take rich occultists and get them to focus on their wealth, and appeasing some luck-god, paying a tithe for their powers.
Providing Guardians money, favours from the rich, and focusing all those unworthy enough to seek the mystic for something as base as money and power on something that will likely never cause them to Awaken.

>>54142213
Bahahaha, nope.

You could house rule it though.

>>54142247
But that was an actual ruling, silly

>>54142213
A transformation power which attempts to change their form into something else will provoke a Clash of Wills.

>>54142254
Beanbags aren't flesh

>>54142279
Anon was referring to OWoD, In which case it's even harder to escape the 'Curse of the Lawn Chair'

Friction Curse > Furniture Curse

>>54142279
14 dice vs BP + disc level. Gluck with that.

(gnosis 5 + arcana 5 + duration)

>>54142279
Lawn chairs also dont think. So it wont even attempt to change form. You think the mage just physically transformed it? Oh you poor little boy.

>>54140813
>implying that's not a vampire hooker they transfigured into furniture for fun
>implying all seer furniture isn't transfigured vampire hookers

>>54140796
Mages can go full DBZ too. Anybody have that one screencap where the guy lays out how a Mastigos can become a giant fucking astral demon?

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>>54142586
Different story of a Mage going super sayan.

I don't know why people consider the Unnamed feat to destroy the Tellurian (not even all the universe) canon but not the fact that the Ravnos Anti survived the fight and the satellite attack, with having one scenario available and with him having Chimerstry 10 anyway

>>54142750
also considering the coming of Vampire 5th edition the Unnamed scenario is even less canon than ever

>>54142750
>Ravnos Anti survived the fight

That isn't canon. It's a goddamn proposition given to STs, you dumb shit.

The Unnamed is canon, but Hell on Earth is one of many plausible scenarios. That's all it is. An alternative path/story to take.

>>54142750
Ravnos canonically died to the Union. Him surviving is just a plot hook that STs can use.

Hell on Earth IS canon, as canon as all other Gehenna/End Times supplements. It's entirely optional as of M20, however. Future Fates being a thing.

>>54142750
Not this shit again.
Your beloved Zapathasura is dead, get over it.

>Tellurian (not even all the universe)
The Tellurian IS the universe, and so much more.
It's the term used by mages to refer to existence as a whole.

>>54142772
What is the difference between a "proposition given to the ST" and "one plausible scenario"?

Are you THAT desperate?

>>54133165
Poderasty?

>>54142831

Not him, but the irony here is that you were desperate enough to post such an irrelevant post based on your own flawed biases.

The difference between a mere mention of a supposed 'plot hook' and an entire book dedicated to a whole scenario is quite massive.

Congratulations. A vampfag is drawing out elitist magefags.

Abandon thread.

>>54142848
>The difference between a mere mention of a supposed 'plot hook' and an entire book dedicated to a whole scenario is quite massive.

magefags wanking and minimazing what they like again

this is not your game where you can change things as you wish

>>54142886
>an obvious false flagging troll

No anon is -this- stupid.
Good day, good sir.

>>54142446
Turning someone into a Frog doesn't give them a frog's brain and incapacity to parse any concepts higher than "mmm, flies", "DANGER, HOP AWAY!".

This is Magic, not science.

>vampfags pretending to be retarded
>magefags being all smug as shit
>me cutting myself

You're all fucking pathetic, you know that?

>>54142916
See the Story of the Frog Prince.

>>54142916
I'm fairly sure that in Mage you at least run the risk of not being able to hold on to your mind if you do transform into something.

>>54142916
Mayaparisatya: Temporarily make an illusion completely real or alter a person or object that already exists, possibly even erasing them from existence
the ravnos would just delete the mage out of existence

>>54142973
I think there is a chance they forget that they were ever anything else.

>>54142973
You have powerful instincts, but that's a biological reaction, affecting your still normal, sapient mind which is itself not directly affected by the change.

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>>54142750
The Unnamed blackened the Tellurian (which is the Multiverse/Omniverse, actually) not destroy it.

The Nephandi don't want to blow up everything, they want the de-ascension of reality.

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>>54129906
>The Despair when no vampire GF

How does your current world of darkness charector handle it /tg/?

>>54142230
I assume they're whatever the Guardians need them to be. I also seem to recall the labyrinth or some other guardian organization as being the best recruitment tool in the pentacle. Discovering more freshly awakened mages than anyone else.

>>54142983
Considering Mages deal with such an ability when facing other sorcerers, wizards and cultists, it's not that impressive.

There are already mechanics enabling Mages to protect themselves from having reality delete them, based solely upon their own belief in their existence.

>>54143032
The Labyrinth doesn't, however the Guardians themselves are exceptionally good at detecting Awakenings.

If you can't stop them Awakening, best alternative is to push them off on some other order who'll hopefully drill enough rigour into their minds that they won't be a problem for your Order, or upset the Diamond Wheel.

>>54140301
Let's not forget DaveB's assertion that the Lions of Zion are equivalent to ISIS.

>>54142586
That trick is harder to pull off in 2e with the change to ritual casting.

>>54143004
Very well. Why would I want a dead thing to be my Girl when I can have a living girl friend. Can't make those Wolf Blooded with a dead girl.

>>54143004
By dating a woof instead.

>>54141931
>you accidently step on a mage's toes
>What happens next

It depends. Was it an accident and are you a sleeper, sleepwalker or not particularly offensive supernatural like a woof? No problem. apologize and move on, you'll be fine.

However, if it was intentional or if you're a wretched abomination before God and Man such as a vampire, you should make amends with your maker as your remaining days will be short and painful.

>Suffer not the predations of the undead. Cleanse the world of the pox of vampirism.
>-Jophiel, Obrimos Master of the Adamantine Arrow, Chief Sentinel of the Austin Concilium (and Grade A Vampire Asskicker)

>>54143047
>There are already mechanics enabling Mages to protect themselves from having reality delete them

They kind of HAD to implement this. It's also why mages are so much 'meatier' than the other supernaturals.
They can will themselves to ignore, say, Correspondence strikes/nukes or Prime erasing.
Vampires and Werewolves just can't, not without occult defenses.

It's also why Night Folk Countermagic was a thing in M20. Though it's not as strong as some people make it out to be.

>>54143047
this is a high level power, don't assume that every stupid mage can survive such a thing because they just believe in themselves, wanker

>>54142095
>I thought all mages were sadists n' murderers?

Not if you acknowledge and respect their supremacy and don't get in the way of any of their Mysteries (or, heaven forbid, *be*one of their Mysteries).

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>>54143100

>>54143094
>-Jophiel, Obrimos Master of the Adamantine Arrow, Chief Sentinel of the Austin Concilium (and Grade A Vampire Asskicker)

if he's so great, why hasn't he done it already?

>>54143087
But anon. Vampires only drink you like a mosquito. A wolf is more likely to rip your internals apart when she gets pissed at you.

>>54142095
I tend to run them being people with far too much power. That does mean that they'll likely have a lot of Sadists and murderers. But not that it will be anything more then a minority of them.

As long as you don't piss on their magical secrets at least.

>>54143004
>The Despair when no vampire GF
>How does your current world of darkness charector handle it /tg/?

Willful fornication with the undead is abominable and risks one's eternal soul. Such necrophiliac deviants should burn with the leech consorts.

-Jophiel

>>54143100

Every mage has access to countermagic(k)

:^)

>>54143175
except this isn't magic

>>54143150
>he
Jophiel is a she, anon. A very hot she.

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>>54143182

>>54143182

It's clearly magic. Just not with a K.

:^)

>>54143182
>Disciplines aren't magic
Oh please. Either you're actually retarded or too far lost in your own desperation for relevance.

For your sake, I hope it's the latter.

>>54143094
>-Jophiel, Obrimos Master of the Adamantine Arrow,
>Adamantine Arrow,

Call me back when we get a quote from someone actually important. Such as from the Seers of the Throne. Not these losers trying to save a already fallen world.

>>54143156
>A wolf is more likely to rip your internals apart when she gets pissed at you.
>be mage
>be adept of death and disciple of life
>can do that spell where you basically kill your body but still function
>make an annoying pun and woof gf disembowels me
>survive and just pack it back in with magic after she calms down

>>54142916
>This is Magic, not science
The Hermetics take a scientific/art approach to magic.

>>54143004
Why would you want a fat goth chick biting down on your junk?

>>54143182
Countermagic can be used on Disciplines, Gifts and other magical phenomena. This is explicit.

>>54143150
>if he's so great, why hasn't he done it already?

If you;re an undead abomination, feel free to step on Jophiel's toes, it will save her the time of hunting your pathetic carcass.

Jophiel - Obrimos Master, Perfected Adept, and Adamant Sage of the Adamantine Arrow - Gnosis 5, Forces 5, Life 4, Prime 4 plus assorted other Arcana and merits,
-She Awakened when she and her sister, who were runaways, were attacked by a vampire. Sister died, and Jophiel REALLY does NOT like vampires.

>>54143295
Why do I keep picturing Jophiel as some middle aged southern Christian lady?

>>54143281
>Countermagic can be used on Disciplines, Gifts and other magical phenomena. This is explicit.
post it

>>54143317
I vaguely recall her being described as looking like a MILF at one point.

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>>54143066
>Let's not forget DaveB's assertion that the Lions of Zion are equivalent to ISIS.

Wait, what?

I think you mean Phil "SatyrDouche" Brucato of M20, not Dave?

DaveB is Awakening, and I don't recall him ever saying anything remotely as offensive as some of Phil's garbage about Zionists or anything else.

The worst things about Dave are that he cranky, late with Mage supplements, and has an unusual attraction to reptiles.

>>54143266
Not everyone is an overpowered mage anon-kun.

>>54143295
Who would she hate more. A mage who extends his life effectively in a vampiric way or a true vampire?

>>54143281
>Why would you want a fat goth chick biting down on your junk?

Because it's cute. Cute corpses are cute.

>>54143368
>Not everyone is an overpowered mage anon-kun.
That's what makes it work though. Although my character would leave his woof gf for Jophiel, if she could stomach his tendency to turn himself into a pseudo-zombie.

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>>54143361
Ah yeah my mistake, it was Phil.

Are the OPP forums as bad as these threads regarding "my splat can beat up your splat"

???

>>54143496
The OPP forums are infested with a different strain of autism

>>54143368
>Who would she hate more. A mage who extends his life effectively in a vampiric way or a true vampire?

Jophiel agrees with the Pentacle party-line of liches being left-handed, regardless of reason, and should be dealt with cautiously.

As to actual vampires, she believes their mere existence is an affront to all that is good, decent and holy, and it is the duty of all those possessing a stout soul, strong arm and charitable heart, particularly fellow Wise, to eradicate their infestation at every opportunity.

Jophiel would be a more dangerous hunter, except she tends to stay local at this point in her career, feeling obligated to protect the Awakened and most sleepers in her domain. In my chronicle, she's the Chief Sentinel of the Austin Concilium, and specifically considers runaways, abused children, the elderly, battered women and the weak and helpless preyed upon by the supernatural under her direct protection. [Jophiel's quite nice for a mage, but definitely has a hero complex.]

You REALLY don't want to be a vampire who hurt a child if she learns about it.

>>54143496
>OPP forums
Full of fags glorifying vampires and hating on mages

>/wodg/
Full of fags glorifying mages and hating on vampires

>>54143496
Was it OPP forums or RPG.net that had the vampfags trying to knock mages down by overcomplicating magic with flawed logic and science, to the point that something like simple transmutation was supposedly insanely difficult?

>>54143566
Probably OPP. Everyone knows that most people on RPG.net don't even read books.

>>54143496
Depends on the thread, if you needed for nerds to confirm your doubts about system is functional enough.
Avoid opinion threads.

>>54143496
There are certain people over on the OPP forums that sincerely piss me the fuck off.

I am understating this, in fact.

>>54143317
>>54143344
>I keep picturing Jophiel as some middle aged southern Christian lady?
>I vaguely recall her being described as looking like a MILF at one point.

Jophiel is spiritual and conservative, but largely non-denominational, believing that the holiness and righteousness of the Aether is expressed in varying and unusual ways.

While she's now in her late 40's, having lived an active and athletic life, she's kept herself in very good shape, besides ample the benefits of Life 4 and being a Perfected Adept. She also has Striking Looks 1.

Jophiel is indeed Milf-tastic.

>>54143566
>applying science to mage magic

Its fucking magic. Same goes for every other splat. It doesn't matter if a werewolf going into Garou form breaks the conservation of mass, its fucking spirit juju. My mage literally wills some rocks to assume the platonic ideal of uranium and now has a nuclear pile. A vampire doesn't care how nonsensical it would be to turn into a living mist cloud it just does and fuck you for overthinking it.

I want to see this thread

>>54143617
>Everyone knows that most people on RPG.net don't even read books.

I'm triggered by your "literacy privilege."

Besides, reading the books, no less having to learn the patriarchal rules of the corporate oppressor, might get in the way of the social justice narrative.

>Post-modern, intersectionality role-playing games.
>kill me

As someone that's not familiar with ascension. Can you create your own tradition?

>>54143663
>Jophiel means 'Divine Beauty' or 'Beauty of God'
>beautiful spiritual MILF
POTTERY

>>54143715
>applying science to mage magic

Magic, and the supernatural generall, is definitely not limited by our understanding of the rules of science. However, that doesn't mean you cannot use magic to *exploit* those same scientific rules.

>>54143770
I'm reminded of the time I saw a physicist play mage. The bullshit you can do with friction alone is amazing.

>>54143846

Never let a STEM major play a Obrimos or Moros.

>>54143846

Using the friction shenanigans on vampires with Celerity is flat out hilarious. They can't even move.

>>54143746

Well we'll always have their hypocritical gouging of customers over the old content repackaged even though all of it is against their 'ideals.'

But lets be honest they do that in every form of media. If their ideas don't work on their own, they subvert something else likes and jams it in there.

>>54143920

something - someone*

>>54143883
There are those few times when vampfags seem to delude themselves into thinking Celerity is an automatic win against mages.

This is wrong.

>>54143934
casting requires time, a vampire in that time can just come at you and deal multiple fatal blows.

>>54143934
>>54143994

Contingencies will -always- trump speed.

>>54143994
There are plenty of magics that are instant and/or reflexively cast.

>>54144016
Also this.

>>54143994
I wish we wouldn't have to keep rehashing this. Mage armor is reflexive now, and even when it wasn't it was a common practice for Mages to activate a lasting armor spell in the morning as part of a daily routine. There are also hung spells with conditional triggers that don't require casting time, and other various ways to be prepared for danger at the drop of a hat. I'm probably replying to bait.

>>54144072
>I'm probably replying to bait.

Everything is bait at this point.

>>54144072
>speaking about owod
>gets answer about nwod

please stop talking about your inferior setting and system

>>54144072
>>54144128
Also:
>The Unseen Storm: Move so fast you are truly invisible
>Zephyr: Move so fast that you seem to defy gravity
>Time out of Time: React instantly to anything and move before anyone realizes what you've done

>>54144128
>>54144140
Ascension is more prep heavy than Awakening.

Your vampires are even more fucked.

>>54144151
>talking things out of your ass the post

you surely played ascension mate

>>54144140

You realize that speed isn't going to be a factory when up against something that can nullify the very idea of it, right?

>>54144128
>>speaking about owod
Where was this specified? Also
>inferior
Kek.

>>54143934
>There are those few times when vampfags seem to delude themselves into thinking Celerity is an automatic win against mages.

Celerity is downright dangerous or useless to use against many mages with Forces, Time or Space.

>Celerity, the poor man's Time

>>54144231
There's also Fate and Mind, arguably.

>>54143094
>>54143150
>>54143094
>>54143317
>>54143344

>Jophiel
>Austin Sentinel

So, what's the vampire population like in Austin in your CofD setting?

>>54144140
What Gen would you need to be to have the eight dots required for those powers?

>>54144220
you realize that deleting the concept of speed is a idiotic thing to do and that really powerful mages can actually try such a thing?
also you still need to react to one thing that's faster than a bullet while doing so

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>>54144140
I bet deep down in your shriveled little heart you sincerely believe your precious vampires are above mages in capability.

>>54144269
Fucked, I would imagine.

>>54144290

I'm not talking about concepts here.

I'm talking about magics that can wholly and entirely make speed utterly useless.

>>54144273
5th Generation.

>>54144290
Why would you need to react quickly when you have Charms and hung spells or already present shields and what have you?

>>54144315
Isn't that really high? Aren't the Antes third gen?

>>54144317
You're arguing with a biased retard, who might actually be a troll.

Probably the latter.

>>54144335
Yes, and Methuselahs are anything after that.

>>54144312
Indeed. Forces will prevent any speed blitzing if utilized.

>>54144269
>>54144293
>what's the vampire population like in Austin in your CofD setting?

Cowed, careful and small in number.

The Consilium doesn't technically condone the gratuitous hunting of the undead for political reasons, particularly outside the domain, but with even the mildest pretext, no one complains when a vampire is rendered unto ash.

Time has demonstrated that vampires inevitably become competitive and uppity. Jophiel's periodic culls force the leeches to retreat to the dark and dank places they deserve.

>>54144335
Yep. 6+ dot disciplines require 7th generation or lower (7th = 6, 6th = 7, 5th = 8, 4th = 9, 3rd = 10).

>>54144293

Indeed. An Obrimos master is a wee bit more impressive a vampire hunter than the sleeper dross with delusions of grandeur found in the Hunter books.

>>54142687
I thought the "We can fix this" was going to be jumping back in time and to stop being mongos..

Instead we got that shit show.

>>54144381
What is Jophiel's go-to way to kill a dirty vamp?

>>54144420
>Human Hunter vs Master Mage as splat-level vampire hunter

The former if generally laughable, the latter the stuff of nightmares that wake neonates up during the day drenched in bloody sweat

>>54143994
If you know you are going up against vampires and have space 4 its as easy as prepping a teleport site that will always be in daylight from your local location at night.

Then you just teleport 1 (automatically since the base potency of 4 will be higher than the teleport spells strong sympathy withstand rating 3), if you have teleport as a rote your 2 free reaches can be spent on instant cast and advanced scale to send 5 vampires to sun fun time land. Every -2 on yer dicepool for scale doubles the number of vampires leaving the area.

Instant cast crispy vampires.

>>54144491
>What is Jophiel's go-to way to kill a dirty vamp?

Recall she has Forces 5, so fire and sunlight (note: celerity doesn't protect against sensory magic). The classics are always the best, and usually ensure the leeches are truly dead.

However, celestial fire is always good for the occasional vamp resistant to the normal banes, and cleaving a vampire's head from his shoulders is always gratifying. As a Gnosis 5 Perfected Adept she's more than capable of engaging in melee combat with a vampire if the mood strikes her or she wants to limit potential collateral or property damage.

>>54144535
And no your not going to sneak up on the guy who has 360 senses (cannot be surprised) via the outward and inward eye spell.

Oh and if they have space 4 chances are they have Mind also, your stupid obfuscate isnt going to work either...

Vamps are the bottom of the food chain, learn to live with it.

>>54144617

Magesfags, the post.

>>54144617
but Muh Celerity!!!

>>54144562
Jophiel pls date my gallows humor Moros who does the zombie spell. He's a runaway.

>>54141704
Wrong.
Faggotry's true form is an incomprehensible squamous mass formed by a kaleidoscope of technicolor dildos orbiting a giant hemorrhoidal prolapsed anus.
Human form can look like anyone, but they always have gay face.
t. acolyte of faggotry

>>54143004

Vampires are Cocaine Repositories and Lawn Furniture. Changelings are GF/Waifus.

>>54144628
I've seen Magefaggier posts

Some of which I've saved just because

>>54144628
Aside from the poor grammar, he's right. Mastigos can indeed use Space to have omnidirectional senses and can even see around corners. Mind is also the Arcanum required to see through tricks like Obfuscate. An even simpler way a Mastigos can defend against Celerity is with Space Mage Armor, which can be activated reflexively or put up in advance. The vampire would just miss as the fabric of space wrinkled or stretched to ensure the attack just harmlessly passed by the Mage.

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>>54144628
>>54144709
This is probably the best magepost I've come across.

>>54144738
Always that 1 in 10 chance of a hit though.

oh and fu gramma nazi!

>>54141704
>drew pickles when it needs to be subtle.
Fucking got me.

>>54144760
Oddly enough this is partly true.
In that the mage can cast the spell as an instant action, and at range sense.

Damage = Potency. So for the love of all supneral truth have a huge casting pool, and burn off 10 dice to get you to base 5, then the free from being a master of your field.

If the mage passes that casting roll. it's 10 A damage (assuming a 5 dot damage dealing spell.) Assuming this vampire maxed Celerity and not resilience they probably don't have 10 health boxes, and will likely feel the burn of the spontaneous human combustion or what ever it is the mage is doing to them.

>>54144535
I was wrong space 4's attainment means they can spend 1 mana to give themselves advanced scale instead of a reach, dont even need a rote, 8+ dice and 1 success for bye bye 5+ vampires.

>>54144908
so much effort, unmaking + ES = deleted.

>>54144915
You know...I think Forces 3 Could possibly do it just as well if not better with some preplanning.

Foces 2 - Use a spell similar to Soul jar cast into a wearable object (or several) so that they collect sunlight. Go sunbathing with your new bling on.

Foces 3 - Create a beam of Amplified Sunlight from the sunlight stored in your Light Jars. Instant solar lasers. Really Need a blast that will hurt a Vamp and make them run. Don't cast it as an Aimed spell. Use 2 reach to make it instant cast, and range sense.

Wow...and that's just at character creation...

>>54145012
Well maybe not better...but quicker. A 1 gnosis Obrimos could pull this off.

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>>54144760

>DaveB classic.

>>54145121

>>54145012
Or use Forces 3 to turn sunlight into Perfected Light, and burn them to death with a flashlight.

>>54145012
>drew pickles

Forces 3 allows a mage to perfect light.

Imagine every normal light, lamp posts, headlamps, etc suddenly acting as true sunlight to vampires. A simple maglight would be a WMD.

>Sunlight is just light from the sun. If light is perfected, it will act as a bane substituting for the "sun" part of light to vampires.

Would the Autobots vs Decepticons conflict be better modeled as Demons vs Angels or Forsaken vs Pure?

>>54133557
I could tell you were German right off from that janky ass capitalization.

>>54145179

>needless capitalization serves the Lie.

>>54145165
Autobots vs. Decepticons is closer to demons vs. Angels. Here is why. The Autobot vs. Decepticon war was over Democracy vs. Monarchy. Autobots wanted a Democracy and Decepticons wanted a Monarch.

Demons seek Autonomy, similar to those seeking to be a part of a Republic. Angels enjoy being ruled over and told what to do much the same a toleration Monarchy is run.

>>54145154
right I forgot about Perfected materials. That would work also. I guess I did make that a bit more complicated and needlessly gimmicky than I needed to. Though I now can't help but to picture a Drew Pickles esq Mage who makes weird "gadgets" to "help" that other mages just look at and wonder "Why?" and point out that there was an easier solution. To which he will point out some stupid but obvious answer like.

"Yeah but my plan gave me both this awesome stuff to wear and a chance to work on my tan."