Stannis vs Daenerys

>>53994117
Renly

>>>/tv/

>>53994117
Basted off what we have seen so far, Kelly C would be an awful ruler and Westeros would suffer under her. Though the show will probably end with her being le best queen ever and everyone lover her.

Stannis would be a dutiful ruler, the only thing noteworthy about him being the circumstances in which he became king.

>>53994159
It's been said before but stannis combined with loyal and politically savvy underlings is the way to go. He isn't as clueless as old Ned but if you gave him a Varys he'd absolutely dominate.

Stannis succeeds or fails purely on the virtue of his underlings. Without loyal, cunning followers willing to lie to their king he'd fall inside a year

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How is this even a question?

>>53994219
I didnt mean he would be bad, he would just be boring. No great works or reforms would happen under King Stannis. Probably what Westeros needs right now though.

>>53994244
>Chronic Diarrhea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKhGqWcJGY

I, for one, am cheering for the snow zombies.

>>53994117
I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?

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>>53994298
>20 good men

>>53994117

As the oldest male blood relative to the dead King, Stannis is King. It's that simple. Daenerys has no claim to the throne, because her dynasty was deposed and a new one was installed. Even if it hadn't, Viserys was rightfully King and her husband still executed him. Accession to a throne isn't traditionally done through fratricide.

>>53994298
>I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year

Nigger they were literally not attacking you on purpose.

>>53994386
Attacking storm's end is suicidal and has never been done.

>>53994350
Well, theoretically she has a weak claim to the Iron Throne, which may be pushed when the title is already being contested or in case of regency. She better hurry up.

>>53994298
>loses to 20 good men

>>53994386
They camped out with far greater supplies & had regular feasts. Some even positioned themselves so that the wind will carry the smells of their food to Stannis' hungry men.

>>53994219
>with loyal and politically savvy underlings
This. If Stannis had just one fucker who was willing to do what needed to be done without Stannis' knowledge then he'd be perfect.

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>>53994555
>>53994318
>yfw The Fat One makes this shit canon

>>53994244
Other than dragons that can barely be controlled this is just about the only benefit they have.

>>53994681
I forgot
>Allies: Midget.

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>>53994117
O N E T R U E K I N G

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Is he, dare I say, /ourguy/

>>53994117
They'd both suck. Mostly because they're written by a fat, lazy, sell out. But also because absolute power corrupts absolutely, etc., etc.

>>53994681
>All her people and the parts of her military that aren't banging her/unsullied defect immediately because they're tired of being eaten and/or burned alive by her 'babies'

>>53994159
There is certainly nothing wrong with a dutiful King. A king that can justly rule a nation without crisis is a very good King.

>>53994117
>Summer 2017
>This thread is still reposted
>>>/tv/
>>>/pol/

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Depends on the canon, really. Show canon seems to be setting Dany up for the throne, because 'muh strong independent women'. Show Stannis was just as gimped as Doran's plot, but still not as bad Euron.

>>53994350
>Comes from deposed dynasty
>Has no claim
Son, that's the perfect pretender claim.

>>53994892
I think only reading the books is why I love Stannis so much.

>>53994892
>Theon I
So he became a king?

>>53994892
tfw you try to talk to showfags about how awesome Stannis is

>b..but he killed is daughter, hes a villain!

>>53994981
Stannis was too complex for the show so they had to flanderize him. Only one protag allowed.

They're trying to show how Daenerys is supposed to growing as a person and to become a good ruler and shit but they've failed at this spectacularly. She's proven herself retarded time and time again and incapable of learning anything until the plot requires her to do so magically.

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>>53994780
I'll take a shot at the bait.

>Dany discredit.

Political murders are not a crime should go unpunished. Medieval punishments for murder will often take the form of an execution depending on context of the attack. This was a call for mass slaughter of the former slave owners and needed to be stomped before it really starts rolling. Dany freed the slaves from the slavers. She does not give them special treatment beyond that because all citizens are equal under her rule.

>Rob discredit.

Walter Frey holds nothing sacred, what he does is done for the accumleation of power and nothing else. This is the guy who made the red wedding happen after all. Rob's actual love was true and furthermore he tried to make up for the oathbreak by keeping his end of the bargain later on.

>Drogo discredit.

Can't argue with that drogo is evil. Who the hell says he'd be a good king?

>Renley discredit.

The war of five kings was caused because of a conflict of succession. Renley had been acting as a fine king over Baratheon lands for many years while stannis had been keeping to himself on dragonstone. Stannis would be a horrible king and renley knew it.

>>53994999
>im a cuck
>im a cuck
>im a cuck
>im a cuck

>fat fucking shit kills all the interesting characters for the sake of edginess and proving a point that everyone can die in his dark and serious donut steel setting
>daeayunaerys is unkillable mary sue saved by plot armor over and over again
>and he keeps getting away with it

>>53994881
>you didn't just report the thread then hide it

You're the real problem here, kiddo.

>>53994999
Mostly agree but for the Renly points. Renly had no plans nor experience for ruling, spending his time trying to get in with the Tyrells. His whole plan for attacking storms end was to let Loras charge forward and expect his numbers win, despite Stannis' defences
And speaking of Stannis, Renly had no claim to the throne as the youngest son. Stannis only had few feverent supporters, Renly had a ton of people who liked his image and idea.
Plus if Renly wins, it's a cue to the rest of society that rule of succesion amongst younger brothers isn't important under the youngest Barratheon, so expect further rebellions.

>>53995049
>it's a cue to the rest of society that rule of succesion amongst younger brothers isn't important under the youngest Barratheon, so expect further rebellions.

Fucking this, we would have popular and charismatic younger sons rising up all over Westeros because now their claims are just as valid if they can take it by force. The Chads would rule the land.

>>53995049
This.

Plus Renly, outside of being well liked and connected, never really had any case for being an amazing ruler.

Also what was show Dany's whole dothraki kidnapping and liberation scene supposed to teach us about her? It was just fanservice adn a cheap way to get her more reinforcements, there's no growth or great decision making she just bullshits her way into getting the largest cavalry force.

Also how the fuck are lightly armored spearmen and light cavalry going to overrun a Westerosi army? The Tyrell/Dorne shit was just lazy writing, its almost insulting that after Martin's attempts at shades of grey multi-protag series will eventually bubble into good guy team vs zombie team

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>>53995072
What we really needed was the charismatic eldest son to take the throne.

Obligatory Blackfyre is the true line, Targs are shit.

>>53994999
>Rob's actual love was true
Not in the book he only married her because he took her virginity and it was the honorable thing to do. And they only had sex because he thought his brothers had been killed and she had pitty sex with him. There was no "true" love in sight.

>>53994999
>Walter Frey holds nothing sacred
He held the only way Rob could get his army south, Rob had a deal and him marrying the other woman rather than have her as a concubine was incredibly stupid on his part.

>>53995088
Well first the dothraki are gonna rape and pillage their way through Westeros, which will piss off people and course infighting. Then she is going to lose half her army to the cold because the once with most winter experience on her side is the fucking Tyrell, and she can't mass produce warm clothing tens of thousands dothraki troops.

>>53994244
>being a showfag
Stannis leads from the rear

>>53995088
The stuff about ice zombies, dragons, and prophesies are the weakest parts of Asoiaf. Why cant we just have a story about a morally grey war in a fantasy realm. Why all this good vs evil chosen one bullshit

>>53995088

>Also how the fuck are lightly armored spearmen and light cavalry going to overrun a Westerosi army?

Dragons.

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>>53995219
>she can't mass produce warm clothing tens of thousands dothraki troops

thats where youre wrong kiddo

The one who can subdue the other competitors has the strongest claim, by virtue of "everyone else is dead or supports me". Everything else (legality, morality, beliefs, and preferences) is irrelevant. Considering the ongoing crises, whoever gets out of them on top is worthy to sit on the Iron Throne. There is no point arguing about what you would like because that is irrelevant. It is, however, worth considering that ASOIAF has a tendency to defy expectations, so while you can make educated guesses, you can't be 100% certain about them.

>>53995115
Was taking the bridge by force really not an option at all or did everyone just hope he'd roll with the marriage because it's a trivial sacrifice in comparison?

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>>53995304
>MFW Dany dies
>MFW Jon dies
>MFW Cersei and Jamie die
>MFW Littlefinger dies
>MFW that little lord of the vale too
>MFW all the Greyjoys die
>MFW all the Martels die
>MFW all the Tyrells die
>MFW Young Griff/Aegon dies
>MFW Edmure becomes a sadsack sitting in Riverrun till he dies
>MFW still nobody in Westeros respects Tyrion
I can't wait for all the great noble families of Wesetros to be crushed by the time the White Walkers are beat, and replaced by a parliament formed by all the little lords left over.

>>53995365
It would have been a very long, costly, and nigh impossible siege. In order to keep them from getting supplies, he would have had to split is force on either side of the river too, leaving both forces much more vulnerable to attack. It really wasn't an option.

>>53995253
>Dragons.

How the ever living fuck did they exterminate ALL the dragons, adult, controlled and mounted DRAGONS earlier in history?

From what we've seen the dragons seem pretty much impervious to damage from arrows. What else can shoot something bigger at a flying mobile target? Were giants even a thing fighting the dragons back then?

>>53995394
Its implied that they died out due to centuries of inbreeding. Tyrion notes how the Dragon Skulls at the Red Keep get smaller and smaller.

As for how they were controlled and mounted, fucking Valyrian Magic.

>>53995394
The dragons in Old Valyria died during the four simultaneous apocalypses it went through.

The dragons that escaped with some of the nobles to Westeros, aside from three, were little shitters. The final generations of dragons were literally poisoned in infancy.

First Men = Celts

Andals = Saxons

Valyrians = Normans

GRRM is a fat hack.

>>53995394
Didn't the dragon get wounded in the gladiator arena by a bunch of random goldiemasks?

>>53995416
Westeros needs either a traitor to kill them on the ground or a literal apocalypse then?

>>53995438
They did chuck spears that hurt but that was to defend The mother of dragons. As we saw later it didn't bother to land to burn boats and armies alike. Good luck getting anything with enough force straight up in the air.

>>53995455
I guess. Poisoning their meat wouldn't be that hard, but I suppose getting the poison would.

The reason for this is that dragons eat their food VERY burnt, so they'd need a poison that can stand that temperature without evaporating. Also keep in mind that her dragons are still small and shit compared to what conquered Westeros. I can see a ballista or similar heavy artillery as being effective.

>>53995489
Good to know they don't drink any water

>>53995489
>I can see a ballista or similar heavy artillery as being effective.

I mean ya, if it hit them it would probably do damage. Good luck with that.

>>53995509
If the armies they fight knows about incoming dragons I can see them setting up a trap. The dragons won't be careful and probably fly around real arrogant and cocky.

Plant a dozen ballista pointing up behind a makeshift wall or even a castle wall. Make your men retreat towards it and hopefully the dragon will pass over the trap.

The question is, are ballistas even a thing in GoT?

>>53995532
>are ballistas even a thing in GoT?
Yes. That's how a dragon got killed in Dorne

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Stannis is Eisenhower. Danny is Obama. So it's hard to say who is "better suited", becuse different leadership styles are called for at different times.

Eisenhower was instrumental in positioning the United States for a prolonged Cold War. But he fucked up in Latin America, toppling Guatemala's democratic president for an "anti-Communist" tyrant.

Obama gave Americans health care, ushered in marriage equality, achieved detente with Iran and Cuba. But he underestimated the shamelessness of Russia and the anti-American right, and now the country will have to suffer until it regains its compass.

Similarly, Dani seems a better leader for Essos and Stannis for the coming winter.

>>53995432
As if the entirety of Westeros looking like Albion and Fatman himself saying that ASOIF was based on it wasn't a big giveaway.

>>53994999
>Political murders are not a crime should go unpunished. Medieval punishments for murder will often take the form of an execution depending on context of the attack. This was a call for mass slaughter of the former slave owners and needed to be stomped before it really starts rolling. Dany freed the slaves from the slavers. She does not give them special treatment beyond that because all citizens are equal under her rule.
It was talking about Mirri Maz Durr you fool.

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>>53995592
>As if the entirety of Westeros looking like Albion
Guess again.

>>53995876
Lemme guess, the other parts are scotland and cornwall

>>53995876
Westeros is one of the ugliest continents I've ever seen

>>53994117
Stannis is the rightful king, therefor, Stannis.

>>53994117
This is a /lit/ thread.
Move it.

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>>53996043
>the rightful king must be the better ruler

>>53994980

Theons first chapter in the Winds of Winter.

Theon spends the entire chapter chained to a wall behind Stannis awaiting execution while Stannis and his men discuss battle tactics against the combined Frey and Manderly army. One soldier asks why they are shoveling snow over the nearby frozen lakes.

>>53996227
Probably a /lit/ question but how different are the books to the show?

I'd like to pick them up but I've still got atleast another 30 HH novels to get through.

>>53996275
The show cut out some serious shit, from cool characters like Cold Hands to super spoiler things you shouldn't look into until you get there if you plan on reading like Lady Stoneheart.

>>53996275
At this point very. The first season followed the books relatively closely, but every season gets farther and farther away from them.

Certain events happen or don't happen, or happen in completely different ways. Important characters are left out or completely changed. The last few seasons have hardly resembled the books at all.

Of course with them being so different, its all a matter of option as to which is better, but I can say with confidence that most of /tg/ would say the books are.

>>53996275

The books are from the point of view of dozens of characters. They see events and people and sometimes you have to figure out whats happening yourself.

For instance in the first book Arya is sneaking through the Red Keeps basements after chasing after a black cat (that is heavily implied to be the pet cat of Daeynrys' murdered nephew) when she sees two fat men talking in the basement. She doesnt know who they are but knows she shouldnt be seen by them.

In the tv series she sees Varys and Illyrio Mopatis talking.

>>53995554

Your views on politics are childlike and laughable.

>>53996291

I missed Darkstar and his hilariously terrible rebellion in Dorne.

>>53994812
>All her people and the parts of her military that aren't banging her/unsullied defect
>aren't banging her
Negligible losses then?

>>53996275

Much different, much better. First season of the show is probably closest to the books, after that the differences become more pronounced with each season, until at some point show and books move in completely different directions.

>>53996339

The entire Dorne part of the show was incredibly bad.

>>53996388

I gave up after the "20 good men" bullshit. The two Daves have always said they hated Stannis and never understood his character. It shows

>>53996388
I know a guy who unironically defends season 5 dorne. We give him shit for it, but he is the guy who likes Suicide Squad and shits on anyones who criticises adaptations of anything, saying that you "should expect change or you're a baby"
Fucking not all change is good change it still has to make sense within the narrative of the story, characters should still be characters not tools for action.

>>53996435
>sticking to the show past season 2
that's some dedication

>>53996443
Is late-season GoT a better adaptation than the Aeon Flux movie?

>>53995897
The northern part is a smaller version of mainland Britain, The Wall is even in the same place as Hadrian's.

>>53996453
If you like a show that looks cool and has good costuming/set design rather than writing or acting.

I watch it in the vain hope that it Stannis might come back.

>>53996444

I, delusionally, thought it may get better, but no, it didn't. They screwed up Stannis story from the start with Maester Cressen and continued to spiral rapidly downwards.

TV cannot demonstrate a 'tactical genius' or stop to explain strategy. Davos' quest for allies would be seen as irrelevant, but my favourite chapter is Davos being dragged before Lord Godric Borrell in Sisters island chain. Its brilliantly atmospheric having to beg for his life while a storm crashes against the fortress walls outside.

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>>53996545
>>53996597
Why did they hate stannis so much?

>>53994998
What, it looks they are setting her up as a mad targaryen, she just randomly kills people and makes retarded decisions all the time. She is arrogant and angry

>>53994244
Lord Daavos runs off to the watch to avoid the battle of winterfell tho

>>53996655
Honestly, because they are stupid. They very clearly just dont get the character at all. His Honor and Duty medieval mindset is hard for a lot of modern normies to empathize with.

They like their Strong, Independent Kelly C fighting for Freedumbs.

>>53995876
Are you actually retarded
Albion is a French name for England

>>53995876
And Britain fits in far more with that variety of climates

>>53994117
Neither.

Daenerys had everything given to her. Her birth, her dragons, her armies and her victories. She has never fought for anything, combat or effort. And she has made many mistakes and terrible decisions which ultimately means nothing because she can get away with anything. She consumes and then moves on to her next target.

Stannis is hard steel. More prone to breaking than bending. He isn't a ruler nor king, he's a military commander. Diplomacy isn't in his vocabulary. Aside from that, he commited fratricide with the use of dark magic to grab power.

I would've rather had Robb or Renly.

>>53996275
Come to /hhg/ and we'll tell you which ones you need to read

>>53996655
At least the show gave birth to this kind of shit.

https://youtu.be/eFDB3cRtklY

>>53996655
Because it's easier to just abandon complex character motives and go for the 'chosen one' Jon and Dany, rather than a tragic guy trying to live up to the role because he's been told he has to save the world. Oh no no, Stannis is in it for POWER you see, he's not the ignored middle brother of charismatic warriors who just wants to do his duty as rightful heir.

It's a shame the show killed of the only guy that recognised that to win the throne you have to protect the people.
It just regurgitated his actual plot twice for season 6.

>>53996716
I like that her fight for teh freedum ends in her being an even worse tyrant than the previous masters. Not to mention her completely arbitrary sense of justice that is not based on any values or morality, but her "feelings".
I hate what they did to the Mannis and he's not even my favourite character. Was it that hard to just follow events of the book? Nah, fuck it, let's just make him do something absolutely ooc and have him burn his one and only heir. Also remember that he's a religous fanatic. Also his sword of flames will only flame when we want it to, because Stannis is not allowed to have nice things.

>>53995223
This thank you.
In the books, the canon source document, it is pretty much a no contest answer of "Dragon Queen Khaleesi" over Stannis

>>53996797
Daenerys is the one true queen

>>53997068
Fuck Daenerys she has the worst chapters, and keeps fucking using the same line to justify her actions in her pov.

Daenerys seems to have little concept of martial strategy (it is her commanders and soldiers which do all the work), has little diplomatic knowledge (both in her lack of knowledge about the world in the world and poor handling of events such as her previous conquests rebelling) and seems incompetent as ruler (best seen in her current exploits).

Stan is on the other hand is diplomatic (shown through his constant attempts to make new allies), renown for his martial prowess (shown in Robert's Rebellion) and is a competent ruler, being able to tell what actions will be damaging (such as his refusal to burn his daughter) and what will be beneficial in the long term (e.g. his alliance with the Melisandre) and in general appears just (e.g. his taking of See David's hand).

Stannis >>>>>> Daenerys

>>53996655
Because he's religious. Not trying to invoke pol here but there are a lot of self righteous mugs that can't let their disdain for it go. I remember introducing an atheist friend to dungeons and dragons. He rolled a cleric because he wanted to be the group healer. Had a fucking meltdown after session 1 about how he hates playing the character because they're a religious idiot. I'm an atheist myself and countered with "if I was in a world where my God actually answered my prayers I'd think the atheists are fucking retards".

Anyway I'm an atheist myself but I can understand my beliefs don't apply to settings with active gods and magic.

>>53997465
If ALL atheists are put in the Wall of the Faithless to rot in DnD and cease to exist entirely then how the hell(s) aren't they believing in anything?

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Wall_of_the_Faithless

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>>53995554

>>53997687
his advocacy unwitnessed by his own eyes

>>53997465
Um, isn't Stannis an atheist in the books? He converted for the pragmatism of it.

>>53997709
Not to get off topic but I love that game so fuckin much. Not dropping 10 dollars for that dlc lmao.

Really a shame about Stannis and I think what happened and how it was largely accepted speaks volumes about the shows team and the audience

>>53996655
They're Hollywood Jews and he's a strong, authoritarian leader who values doing honor and doing it by the book.

>>53997838
He doesn't give a shit about the seven, but he seems to genuinely believe he's Azor Ahai.

>>53997944
He may have thought it for a brief time, but he was disappointed with the Red God as well, doubting the power behind his sorceress.

>>53994999
>Dany freed the slaves from the slavers. She does not give them special treatment beyond that because all citizens are equal under her rule.
She simply destroyed the entire socio economic structure of the city without providing any other systems and watches as it all burns

>>53995219
>Well first the dothraki are gonna rape and pillage their way through Westeros, which will piss off people and course infighting
Nothing unites better then an outside invader. I think that was even said in the books themselfs

>>53994132
The only worse option would be Euron.

>>53994117
>Thoughts?
Back the fuck up to /tv/

Also report, hide and forget

>>53997944
He believes in Melisandre's magic.

>>53994117
>the conflict in Meereen is a clear sign that she's not the perfect queen we originally expected her to be.
when the fuck did you think Daenerys would be a "perfect queen"? She's a Targaryen, for crying out loud.

>>53994999
>'s actual love was true and furthermore he tried to make up for the oathbreak by keeping his end of the bargain later on.
he is still what pretty much all of the Starks are.
An Oathbreaker.

>>53995394
They are not impervious to damage from arrows, even if you're show-only you saw Drogon got hurt in the gladiator arena.
Scorpion bolts, arrows, and even angry peasants when the dragons are chained up, have killed dragons so far. They're extremely mortal.

>>53994132
Go fail another liege, Brienne.

>>53995223
Stannis does what is necessary and pragmatic. Usually, he leads from the back - which is where a commander of his caliber belongs. And he IS a formidable commander.

>>53994386
>I am an idiot who has no idea how difficult it is to hold together a siege in dire straits

>>53997630
I hate whatever writer at Wizards created this monstrosity, it makes all of the gods in-setting seem evil just through complicity.
Worship one of us or when you die your soul will be tortured for all eternity until it is slowly erased from reality itself. BTW I'm Lawful Good, nice to meet you.
It makes Forgotten Realms seem like a grimdark setting.

>>53994350
Technically Robert claimed the throne based on the old dynasty.

Dany can't claim it legally anyway because she's a woman and Westerosi law does not recognize her as having a claim better than Stannis's.

>>53995223
So did Tywin.

>>53995365
>is it possible to besiege a prepared castle that cannot be encircled and has a limitless water supply when an army is a few days from my rear at most?

No.

>>53996388
>the bad pussy

>>53994117
What I'd look at is how their rule would affect the world over the next couple of generations.

Stannis would run the same system, that's been there for... one generation. And has led to a whole shit ton of instability.

Daenerys would likely shake things up, at least somewhat. But ultimately run the same thing as Stannis.

For the common folk, it's a complete toss up. Likely not to change a thing for any of their grand kids. All this assuming that there wasn't an apocalyptic army of undead coming to kill everyone.

Take the 'bad guys' in to account and the best ruler would be whoever could manage to unite the largest most stable force and turn back the tide of doom.

In which case, I'd say Danny has the better chance. Since all of the nobility in Westeros is basically fucked.

>>53999465
Gods ARE evil.

The idea of gods being good is a very new concept, most of history had them as capricious at best, malevolent at worst, altogether best avoided when possible.

>>53994999
>yeah I know I said that I, a king, would marry your daughter, but I'm marrying this Lannister slattern. Don't worry, though, you can have the consolation prize, the laughingstock of the great lords of Westeros!

This after even his complete idiot of a mother warned him that you slight Walder's pride at your own peril. He could have just fucking waited for the old man to die and THEN married the woman he squirted a kid in if he was that much of a bitch.

>>53999857
>the laughingstock of the great lords of Westeros!
Wasn't that a show thing? I vaguely recall Edmure Tully being a fairly noble and competent individual in the books.

>>54000000
Edmure Tully was incompetent in the show. It's sad really.

He was only inexperienced in the books, but had his moments of valor and commendable loyalty to Rob and Catlyn.

>>53999436
Stannis is basically Tywin without the shitty descendents.

>>53994670
Rip. Poison is truly the coward's weapon.

>>54000000
Every get on this board is a disappointment

>>53994901
>Pretender

There's that important rub there.

>>54000120
This whole board is a disappointment. When was the last time /tg/ made something of note?

My son...the day you were born, the weirwood forests of the North whispered the name...Jon.
My child...I watched with pride as you grew into a weapon...of honor.
Remember, our line has always ruled with wisdom and strength,
and I know you will show restraint when exercising your great power.
But the truest victory, my son, is stirring the hearts of your people.
I tell you this, for when my days have come to an end...you shall be King.

>>53995382
>All the Great House and their lower branches dies(No Lannister of Lannisport or whatever) Who rules the different realms now?

>>54000000
Edmure is good in the books

>>54000239
I was reading it in the voice long before I even realised what this was from, bravo.

>>53996655
>Modern HBO moral relativistic atheist lefty writers
>the living embodiment of moral absolutism, potential religious zealot, and military man with no time for sex, drugs and rock and roll

It would be like if they did a biopic on Joan of Arc or someone else who they simply cant understand because their entire worldview is anathema to the subject.

>>54001241
It's interesting this switch happened relatively quickly
after all during Rome they actually tried to capture roman era morals instead of trying to fit it into a modern western style.

>>53994277

This

>>54001429
Rome had slightly more competent writers. Though they still did retarded fanservice shit like have free citizens fight in the arena (???), A place only slaves could go
>>54001241
Just because they're anathema to Joan doesn't mean they wouldn't turn it into a giant feminist womyn empowerment fest and ignore the fact she was ultra Catholic

Weiss wrote Troy for fucks sake, a novel about how Achilles likes to protect rape victim (protip: the Iliad is about how Achilles gets asspained over losing his personal rape slave at the start)

BRAVO D&D

I'm like 99% sure this exact OP has been posted before.

>>54001834
I'd say it was only partial fanfiction and partial them having written themselves into a corner on how to get Pullo out of that little fuckup

that said it was possible for free citizens to be convicted to slavery but generally speaking those people were sent to horrible horrible places like salt mines

>>54001834
>free citizens fight in the arena
You could volunteer as a citizen for gladiatorial service.

>>54001931
didn't that involve technically signing away your rights as a citizen for a set duration?

>>53998943
>>53999396
>>53994132
Renly is objectively the best pick for the job, he'd just be a figurehead with a live and let live personality, which is the only kind of king Westeros can stand without going into civil war. Stannis and Dany are both opinionated nutjobs who want to fundamentally change Westeros, they'd have civil wars from day one.

>>54002065
Sort of. You couldn't back out of the contract but you didn't lose your rights so long as the two didn't counter one another. contract then overrode rights where the two clashed.

>>54001847
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/image/nGIT6Uw18wOdo2u5hlwEtQ/
We did

>>54002200
Also was this even commonplace during the end of the republic?
If yes then that could have been a more elegant solution to get Pullo into the arena, have him get down on his luck and sign up as a gladiator. Would have made a decent amount of sense given he, admittedly, considered himself unfit for a civilian life.

>>54002282
Hard to say. There aren't many surviving records of it.

>>54002067
> it's a good idea to have a figurehead king

Lmao, the wars of the roses (the war GoT is based on) shows how that's utterly wrong and a stupid idea. A king shouldn't be incompetent and Renly was an awful choice.

>>53996766
>1000 views
Why do people post their own youtube videos on 4chan? Do you really think it's going to make you famous?

>>54002067
t. Loras

>>54002577
Robert was literally a figurehead only concerned with partying who let Jon Arryn do all the ruling and Westeros was fine under his rule. The badshit only happened after he died, which is what always happens when a good ruler dies.

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>>54002067
Robert was a figurehead king. And look where that got the realm. Stannis nees to be king for the of the realm

>>54002067
Just make Highgarden or Oldtown the capital desu.

>>54002826
Oldtown should've been made the capital, especially considering how Aegon prostrated himself to the Faith.

>>53994117

Stannis has been long established as a terrible ruler. He's an honorable man, and a capable military commander, but he lacks tact, is incapable of compromise, and treats diplomacy with outright disdain. He's a military commander, not a governor. Hell, it's questionable whether he even *wants* to be king, or whether it's just his iron-clad sense of duty forcing him to do his part and fight for the throne he has claim to.

Dany gets people to love her, which is at least part of what being a ruler is about. And she comes with free dragon artillery, so that's something. But she's still a teenage girl with a chronic habit of not listening to her advisors and a track record of barely making it out of any political snakes nest she lands in, which doesn't bode well for when she finds herself in King's Landing. She's not laid out as a "bad" ruler in the black and white terms Stannis is, but at bottom she's an idealistic little girl with three big guns and absolutely no experience dealing with people she couldn't burn to death if she wanted to. Still probably has a leg up on Stannis.

Honestly though, if we're talking about the "better" ruler (as opposed to ones that have claim to the throne), I think it might be a toss-up between Tommen and Aegon. Tommen is essentially going to grow up to be a Tyrell, and they're a bunch of manipulative assholes, but at least they're the *regular* kind of manipulative assholes you'd find in politics. They keep the murdering and betraying to a minimum, and generally just maneuver or bribe. Having someone like that in the throne would probably feel like a fucking vacation to Westeros at this point.

Aegon is worth mentioning because he has arguably the best claim to the throne other than Stannis and he's actually had some limited training in rulership (I suppose Dany has too, but hers has been mostly on-the-job).

Over all I'd probably vote Tommen, if I were a Westerosi peasant and they could vote.

>>54003412
>Hell, it's questionable whether he even *wants* to be king,
No it isn't. He flat out states he does not want to be king.

>>54002825
I don't suppose you have a name to go with this picture?

>>54003412
If I were a Westerpsi peasant who could vote, I'd say we get rid of the Iron Throne and become 7 Kingdoms again. I know, the series makes this time period out to be fucking awful, but we really only have the word of people who'd lived under threat of burninating for three centuries for that. Fact is, the realms were stable enough to have the exact same borders that they do now for thousands of years. Sure, the Riverlands will suffer, but I'm not going to live under TWO dynasties of sister fucking maniacs for their sake.

>>54003829
You have my vote

>>54003941
Traitot

>>53994117
Daenerys will be a better ruler. Females always are.

>>54002261
Well shit. Stannis is /ourguy/

>>54001134
It's WotLK intro right?

>>54006412
My son. The day you were born, the very forests of Lordaeron whispered the name, Arthas. My child. I watched you with pride, as you grew into a weapon. Of rightousness. Remember, our line has always ruled with wisdom, and strength. And I know that you will show restraint, when exercising your great power. But the truest victory, my son, is stirring the hearts of your people. I tell you this, for when my days have come to and end. You, shall be king.

>>53994117
>WotLK
The better question is if who would you rather see rule? Shireen Baratheon or Daenerys Targaryen

>>53996760
>Stannis is hard steel. More prone to breaking than bending.
My autism is triggered, steel bends easier than iron does, you got the quote wrong, reeeee.

>>54007883
“Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.”

Books: Stannis by far
Show: Neither

>>54008217
Honestly I feel like Stannis is more of the steel than Robert.

Stannis was a stick in the mud in the beginning, but he ended up a lot more flexible than Robert who was just as stubborn and way more incompetent at everything but fighting.

>>54008651
Robert knew he was incompetent from the Start. The only reason why he didn't abdicate the thrones was due to Joffrey and Cersei. That shit terrified him

>>54007822
Is Shireen even fit to rule? I haven't read the books but she seems well read and kind but I don't think any of that really lends itself to ruling.

>>54008829

She's a non-character in the books.

>>54008829
She'd have to have been properly taught the basics of leadership, as even without the events of the story, she was to be the inheritor of Dragonstone.
But really, no, she wouldn't be fit to rule, she'd be a figurehead like Joffrey while the Small Council holds all of the power, except she wouldn't be a sadistic prick like Joffrey.
I'd still rather see her on the throne than Danny. Things tend to run relatively smoothly with the Small Council running everything, and I'm inclined to believe that as she got older, Shireen would grow into a pretty good Queen. Danny on the other hand cares nothing for tradition, arbitrarily rules based on her emotions, and entirely solves issues by brute-forcing her way through everything. A big reason Aegon I's original conquest of Westeros was successful is that he integrated into Westerosi customs, such as the carrying of banners and flags. Westeros doesn't have anything as extreme as slavery, but I image Danny would be more than willing to butt heads with the customs just because she disagrees with them and is unwilling to compromise.
Long story short, Daenerys is an awful ruler, while Shireen will either grow into a mediocre or great ruler. Even a mediocre ruler would be better than the last 3 Kings.

>>54008217
Pure iron, without carbon isn't brittle at all, that's high carbon, like cast iron, the becomes brittle. Martin really shoulda Google that shit

>>54008829
I mean she pretty much has to be taught the basics of rulership because she was Stannis heir for DragonStone

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>>53994117
Game of Thrones is entertainment for brainlets.
The answer is that the best king is the one that ends the show.

>>53994117
What would Stannis Moral Aligment be in any other series

>>54010786
Book Stannis is Chaotic Good. The show's depiction is Lawful Evil.

>>54009063
Do you think some random fuck in the middle ages is going to know about the effects the amount of carbon molecules in metal has on it?

>>54011189
Actually, nevermind. Book Stannis would be Lawful Neutral/Good.

>>54011269
>Not lawful lawful.

Stannis. Daenerys is an emotional bitch with no concept of right or wrong, just sorta stumnling her way through everything and had the luck to get dragons after being sold off like the cheap whore we all know her to be.

Stannis is consistent, organized, disciplined and loyal to a fault. Not the perfect king but in thia, there's no contest.

>>53996897
I haven't watched the show past season 2, and in the books Stannis is infi itely more competent and worthy than Daenerys. Daeneys is chronically incompetent and actively naive, and generally just a girl that lucked the fuck out and stumbled upon the power to enforce her gutmensch ideals.

>>53996797
Hahaha, Stannis burns his kid in the show? That's beyond retarded, considering that it goes completely against his ideals. Stannis isn't a fanatic, his wife is, and to him, the religion is just a means to an end, that end being securing the throne for his daughter and fulfil his oaths. Goddamn.

>>54012176
I don't think it's inconceivable that Shireen is burned in the books, but Stannis is far from desperate enough to even consider that option. Either Melisandre and Selyse does it or something huge happens that didn't happen in the show.

>>53996067
So Stannis

>>54012400
More like cercei

>>54002821
Yes and his rule let people like little finger gain insane ammounts of wealth and leaves 'his' line in milions of gold coins in debt. His inability to have sex his wife lead to whole other bunch of problems. Not to mention that he made Ned Stark hand of the king and raised no heir to be his capeable replacement which is his most job as a ruler.

>>53994117
>implying the Imp isn't the one true king

Just give him Daenarys to rule behind.

>>54012329
The way it happened in the show was insane. They were in the snow for a couple days at most and Stannis immediately resorts to burning his daughter alive.

>>54012329
Melisandre and Selyse probably go and do it behind his back, Stannis breaks down and falls on his sword, his army marches home

>>53995876
>>53995897
>seven kingdoms
>saxon heptarchy

whoa

>>54012634
Yeah. Wasn't he marching for weeks in the novel

>>54012622
Part of the reason I think Renly is better is because I trust Olenna and Willas to do a better job than Tywin and Littlefinger did because their family is too content to grub for power.

>>54012681
A Baratheon-Tyrell alliance would make timebombs out of both Dorne and the Westerlands, but no two houses are less likely to ally with each other (barring the Greyjoys, of course) so I don't think it would matter much.
The Tyrells could provide stability as long as they manage to keep the North, Vale and Riverlands complacent.

>>53996545
>I watch it in the vain hope that it Stannis might come back.
I tried explaining to my friends that Brienne didn't kill Stannis because he's more valuable alive than dead since he has actual military experience and dragon stone for when the long night comes. Then season 6 destroyed my hopes for him coming back

>>54012829
>implying the Westerlands would start jack shit

>>54012681
>Willas, Hand of the King
>Garlan, Shield of the King
>Loras, Queen

It would have been perfect, dammit!

>>54012988
Tywin would never forgive or forget the damage done to his legacy. He wouldn't start shit unless he was damn sure he'd end up on top.
Just don't forget that Renly would inherit Robert's massive debt to the Lannisters, so Tywin would still have his fair share of sway over the new King. Renly could deal with the debt through bigger-army-diplomacy, though I'm unsure how the other lords would react.

>>54013112
If Renly won the WotFK, the Lannisters would have to just eat the loss on that debt because they supported the losing side.

>>>>/tv/

>>53999826
T. Assyrians

>>54000000
Fucking checked

>>54000199
Urban unease and those threads where people debate settings that don't actually exist are the first two that pop to mind

>>53994117
A constituonal monarchy that legimitzes itself as protector of justice and will try to curtail the privileges of nobility or a demiteochratic monarchy that is entirely dependent on the ability of the monarch? Going by my 21th century mind I will chose Stannis

>>53994350
>Person X is more legitimate
The most legitimate ruler is the one who can convince the people they are legit. Next you will say Napoleon was not legit because he wasn't part of the Royal family

>>53995072
>Implying it wouldn't lead to a Sengoku Jidai era or a Year of Five Emperors

>>54002821
Most of the problems in Westeros stems from Robert's incompetence. Everything from Cersei and Joffrey being shits because he couldn't be assed to keep his bitches in check, to the council being full of backstabbing fuckers with way too much power, to the massive debt that undermined the crown's authority, to the shit with the Targaryens because BAWW I GOT KEKED BY RAEGAR, and even his own goddamn death which sparked the entire civil war.

It might've been fine up until he died, but that was because there wasn't a slight breeze to knock over the house of cards that was his rule yet.

I would probably vote for a (competent) Lannister, which is kind of hard since they're either dead or have no chance in hell of claiming the throne. I mean, sure, they're more or less all shitheads, but at least the ones who didn't live with a Baratheon for an extented period of time were competent shitheads. Dany is a shitty little girl who just has force of arms and a cult of personality on her side. Stannis is about as subtle as a horse with a sparkler up its ass. Also, the whole creepy assassin shadow baby thing.

>>54011214
Yes, that's why they used steel to make a sword and not iron.

>>54013060
>Loras, Queen
that made me giggle more than it should

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>>53994117
>We're still talking about this even though who is actually qualified is basically the last thing that matters thematically in a story that is basically House of Cards with swords.

Ok, sure.

As people? They're both awful and need to go and stay go.

As a politician in the medieval sense? Stannis. Despite the fact I'm fairly certain he has high-functioning autism he's able to do basically the one thing a feudal lord is supposed to do: keep everyone from murdering each other.

He can do that and he's capable of cognitive thought, and with Robb and Renly gone that basically makes him the last of three roughly equal choices.

Show Stannis is awful though

A religious fanatic who alienates his followers and does anyting a ginger fire witch tells him vs. a reasonable, albeit inexpirienced queen who stands by her principles and has a devouted following.

Gee, I wonder who would be the better choice.

Can someone explain me the fuck this thread has to do with /tg/ at all? Want to discuss the shitty book/tv series, there are boards for that. It's absolutely unrelated with the hobby discussion about two fictional characters.
And it keeps getting reposted roughtly once per month. It's even stale as a fucking bait.

>>54014232
Oh sweet summer child

>>54014219
Dirty show watcher.

>>53998311
What i mean is that the dothraki are part of Dany's army, and they are not gonna stop being dothraki because of that. Dany claims that she stand for the smallfolk which are not compatible with a rape/murder horde

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>>54002067
Shut the fuck up D&D, he was a scheming asshole like the rest of them and he would've exacerbated the problems instead of fixing it because he would've played the game of thrones instead of hanging everyone.

Winter is coming, and the realm needs someone like Stannis more than a sleazy politician.

>>54012909
Reeeeeee they diddn't show how he died. She must have lied!

>>54014232
Discussing lore stuff no matter the source is always nice and a good training for everyone who tries to get better imagination/being able to think into a setting.
It is certainly better then YET ANOTHER 40K thread. I stopped counting after the first ten 40k threads.

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>Muh dragons
>Muh claims
Make way for the REAL great house. House Greyjoy is objectively the best there is. Just look at how many cool people we have!
>A sorcerer-king, who sees the future and makes the future, will marry the Other and subjugate the dragons
>A mighty viking with a demonic arm, worshipping the only worthwhile god and getting results
>A woman so shrewd and cunning, she nearly became the first queen of the Ironborn - the society that doesn't normally let women out of the kitchen.
>A priest of the Drowned God, who can't be neither bent nor broken, withstanding horrific torture like it's nothing and laughing in the face of death
Truly, the greatest men to ever walk the earth.
>B-b-b-but muh Theon!
He's a Stark, not an ironborn, fuck him.

>>53995554
>anti-American right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

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>>54014219
>reasonable
what show are you watching and what books are you reading. She's an idiot.

>>54015579
She did the best she could, and literally the only thing she did wrong was throwing it all away in the end and flying off on a dragon. Also, trusting Shavepate, but he's Essos version of Littlefinger. Everybody trusts him.

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>>54014219
>Dany
>Reasonable

What the actual fuck?

>>54014957
>who can't be neither bent nor broken
But Euron both bent and broke him, didn't he?

>>54015781
No, re-read the chapter. Aeron didn't break.

>>54006879
I was crushed by WotLK. He was my favorite character, and a massive disservice was done to him. They where inconsistent to such a degree that the the ultra-shitty book, previous games, and the entire expansion where constantly conflicting with each other. Within the expansion itself we are told that Arthas is dead, that he isn't dead, that he is a slave to the Orc, that he killed the Orc and took over, and that everything about him is dead and he was totally evil be he still loved Jaina. It was a fucking shitshow and the reason I quit.

>>54015623
>She did the best she could
so her best is a complete disaster? that's a bit rough desu.

>>54016005
Yes, anon, that's what happens when you subjugate a completely alien culture and aren't willing to genocide them until they submit. Sometimes, things aren't easy. Sometimes, you have to compromise and choose between two evils. It's called life.

>>54015956
>Arthas in Warcraft is an arrogant but humorous cunt, who constantly mocks and taunts his enemies
>Arthas in World of Warcraft is a generic evil overlord with BOOMING VOICE, ridiculously stupid plan that predictably fails and no personality to speak off.
?!?!?!?!?!

>>53994999
Triple 9s of truth.

>>54016062
You mean subjugate and then do all kinds of retarded stuff that spits on them and crubles their very social structure without giving any other solution.
She just comes somewhere and demands something no matter how it should be achived. She is literally one of those sixteen year old birthday princesses only with an army and living flamethrowers to back her up.
She is a threat to every order left in the their world.

Not a traditional game

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>>54016062
Maybe she should've listened to her advisors and not destroy a city, as bad as it was, just cause slavery makes her fly into retard rage.

>>54000239
>But the truest victory, my son, is stirring the hearts of your people.
[autistic skeleton screeching]

>>54016150
>You mean subjugate and then do all kinds of retarded stuff that spits on them and crubles their very social structure without giving any other solution.
Oh, you mean like not killing their ruling famlies OR hostages she has, despite being advised to do so? Or like allowing slaves to sell themselves to other Free Cities? Or like reopening the fighting pits to please the meereenese? Or like marrying Hizdahr and actually achieving the peace she strived for the entire book, with Meereen finally accepting her as a ruler and achieving fragile, but promising peace?
>She is literally one of those sixteen year old birthday princesses only with an army and living flamethrowers to back her up.
No, that's your fanfiction.
>She is a threat to every order left in the their world.
She is an agent of change, for the better. Change is never easy. My country went through many periods of troubled, often violent times - Peter's westernization, the end of serfdom, the two revolutions, the end of USSR and the 90s. The order that existed at the time was deemed bad and not working, so a new order had to be built. None of those things went flawlessly, but they were ultimately necessary and resulted in a better world in the long run.

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>>54016158
Holy shit what's up with all you elitists?
Could you be any more pathetic the going into a thread that you don't like just to proclaim you don't like it?

Live and let live, faggot.

>>54016207
>Maybe she should've listened to her advisors and not destroy a city, as bad as it was, just cause slavery makes her fly into retard rage.
Showfags leave.

>>53994428
Ck2 player?

>>53994892
I really am afraid that the books might be affected by the show's writing, considering how popular the show has become.

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>>54000061
And less willing to be ruthless
I mean, that was Tywin's greatest asset, being ruthless and willing to do whatever it takes

>>54016508
Stannis isn't less willing to be ruthless, he's just more sensible about it.

>>54016508
And how did it work out for him in the end? His shitty treatment of his children resulted in his own son killing him. His cunning plans to defeat Robb Stark with Red Wedding worked out short term, but in the end fucked up Riverlands and created the multiple northern conspiracies against him and the Boltons.
The sacking of King's Landing similiarly elevated his family's position - for a time - before it started backfiring spectacularily, and now Dorne will rebel to put down his granchildren and put a Targaryen on the throne.

Ned Stark may have died, but in death he was more powerful than he ever was alive. People loved him, and are going to great lengths to restore his legacy. When Tywin died with a whore in his bed, his precious legacy fell apart, as his evil finally caught up to him.

You know, it's almost as if it's some kind of a theme running through the series.

>>54016105
No, the Lich King is a generic evil overlord with a booming voice and an overcomplicated plan. Arthas merged with him, did you really expect him to keep his personality intact?

I mean, I'm not saying that makes for a terribly engaging villain, but that's what he always was, both in TFT and WotLK.

>>54016682
Undeniably true, but at the same time, the moments he tried to be less ruthless and govern the Seven Kingdoms, he got shit to show for
May have some to do with his King being a jealous lunatic, but still

>>53994117
Stannis is objectively the only man who should be king. That he's an uncharismatic, prickly cunt but the most capable and qualified to rule is the entire purpose of his character.

>Stannis doesn't compromise
This is true in the beginning of the story but it's not by the end. Davos makes Stannis realize compromise isn't always weakness and that he needs to give a little to get the things he wants.

We see this with his negotiating with the mountain clans.

Stannis is an experienced ruler, a tried and true commander on both land and sea, is willing to sacrifice with his men as we saw during the siege of storm's end, and is generally the most capable man of running a kingdom.

>>54015623
She literally ruined every single town she touched to the point where they were all either reconquered or willingly accepted slaver rule again.

Daenarys is what happens when a princess does the moral and right things on the time without thinkin of the actual consequences.

The only reason she gets away with it is because muh dragons which are practically feral at this point.

>>54016906
>She literally ruined every single town she touched to the point where they were all either reconquered or willingly accepted slaver rule again.
She touched Astapor and Meereen. In Astapor she left a council of Astapori in charge, but they were backstabbed and overthrown by Cleon the Butcher, who was in turn overthrown by another king, and then another, until Astapor was finally sacked by the slavers. Sacked, not conquered.
The other city she touched was Meereen, where she actually managed to achieve her goals and achieve peace.

Are you gonna continue talking out of your ass? Because it seems to me that you're just shitposting.

>>53994117
Dragon chick is completely fucking insane, raising to power only because she has three flying death machines at her service

Lameiss is absolutely amoral who just wants to rule and would go at any lenght to achieve power, even striking pacts with questionable and utterly insane people

Both of them would be shit rulers

>>54016872
I wonder how Stannis is going to die in the books. I think he will succesfully defeat the Boltons, only to be suddenly killed by Mance Rayder, who disguised himself as Ramsey.
The show cut out Mance for a reason - he never had the relationship to Jon he had in the books, the actor was kind of uninspiring, and they clearly wanted to set up Ramsey to be this big bad cunt that he never was in the books, because they wanted to one up Joffrey.

>>54016968
Wait, I forgot about Yunkai, but she didn't really "ruin" it. Slavers just immediately started slaving when she left.Those weren't even different slavers, literally the same people she just defeated.
This is a mistake she aknowledges, which is why she settles down in Meereen and tries to change the system as a ruler instead of telling people to stop having slaves and then not enforcing it.

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>>54017015
>Lameiss is absolutely amoral who just wants to rule and would go at any lenght to achieve power, even striking pacts with questionable and utterly insane people

That's literally the opposite of what he does in the books. He doesn't want to rule, but the laws of the land make him the rightful king, and he sees it as a duty he has to carry. There's no insane person that he has struck a pact with. In the books, he's not a fanatic nor zealous and he most certainly isn't Melissandre's pawn, only doing questionable things when he has no other choice. He listens to Davos and he's a lot more morally flexible than, say Ned Stark, and he changes his opinion and plans if he's presented with sensible solutions or alternatives (that he didn't think about. A lot of Davos' actions in the show were his in the books).

He's also so reliable that the Iron Bank outright seek him out to fund his war because they know that he'll bring stability to the seven kingdoms and pay the debts the crown owes them.

>>54017079
Not to knock Stannis or anything, but doesn't Iron Bank actually seek him out because Lannisters really pissed them off, and he's the only pretender to the throne that's still active?
They don't know about Young Griff at this point.

>>54017136
The Iron Bank loans to Stannis because they want stability and between Stannis and Tommen, Stannis was the sensible choice.

>>54017136
They go directly to the crown to talk about the debts and they're met with Cersei, who tells them to fuck off cause she's retarded. I seem to recall that they say somewhere that they decided to back Stannis because they knew what his moral fiber was, and their representative went all the way to the Wall to talk with him.

But not after they stopped giving money to the crown and demanded all debts to be paid instantly, which threw the realm into economic collapse.

>>54017207
>Cersei in the books is a paranoid lunatic, long driven insane by her jealousy, vanity and paranoia. She views Jaime and her children as extensions of herself, and her relationships with them are abusive.
>Cersei in the show is YAAS QUEEN, who behaves like a heroic tiger mom until she suddenly turns into a villain and blows up a church
?!?!?!?!?!

>>54017266
The show writers are retarded and that should've been obvious around the time Brienne teleports in the Vale to kill The Hound.

>>54017286
I don't approve, but understand why they did it. In the books, the Hound "died" to some schmucks in a bar fight, and it would detract from his meme status. Your average viewer will at least understand his defeat by Brienne - a character that actually did something, not the Tickler and Polliver.

>>54017207
>who tells them to fuck off cause she's retarded
Why is it so utterly unreasonable to defer paying off loans until after the wars done

>>54017207
Didn't she do it because she found out the kingdom was basically bankrupt since everything was on the Lannister Charge Card, and the gold mines went empty?

>>54000000
It was, which is unfortunate, but he's still one of the "weakest" of the high lords and most certainly NOT someone with Robb's political power, which is what Walder wanted.

>>53994117
They're both pretty shit. Line of succession is all important to a total monarchy. They don't have good prospects of creating an heir. Well Danny has no prospects, but Stannis has no results.

That aside, I'd look at who is less likely to trigger a rebellion and win a war. On both I'd go with Daenerys.

Militarily, Daenerys has an insurmountable technological advantage over everyone else. There is no point in bringing a Westerosi army against her. Heavy Cavalry, ranked infantry and siege warfare are all a liability against dragons. Anyone who would do well against her would probably be on her side, too. Stannis is highly competent general, but he's not a winning general.

Daenerys is also less controversial. While her values and history were a detriment in Meereen, they would be a huge positive in Westeros. Stannis is a charisma void from a family that couldn't hold the throne for a single generation that brings with him a massive list of grievances to avenge and an inevitable religious war.

So Stannis is probably still fertile, but he'd basically have to conquer all of Westeros castle by castle and church by church. Daenerys has a more impressive claim and incomparably better military and diplomatic resources.

>>54017405
>Gold mines went empty
Only in the show, the Lannister are indebted because Littlefinger made money appear, in the sense of borrowing from the Iron Bank

>>54017381
I think she went more along the sensible line of: I wont pay you fucking leeches a single dragon

>>54017451
WHaaaaaat

Are you sure they weren't empty in the books too? I read all the books, I kinda stopped watching the show part way through.

>>54017381
Because it was obvious that she didn't want to pay them because she used Iron Bank money to build a useless fleet to flaunt the crown's power (Which was stolen by the bastard that she put in the small council.) The payment was long overdue already, as well. They started showing up when Tyrion was still hand and he deterred payment as well, and then whey they asked Cersei, she rebuffed them in a very undiplomatic manner.

>>54017482
>Are you sure they weren't empty in the books too?
Yes, it's show canon only, specifically written to justify Cersei.

>>54017482
IIRC, there are rumours, but they are made by people who have no way of knowing anything about the mines
Other than that, the mines themselves are barely mentioned at all
In the show it was made a lot clearer in an attempt to show that Tywin can even play his games when he has barely a thing, bluffing his way to victory

>>54017438
The issue with Daenerys is that most people still remember the last Targaryen who was in charge. Not to mention (rightfully) fearing retribution for what they did to the Targaryens. Also, the horror stories of dragon-induced massacres against anyone who wouldn't step in line.

I have a hard time seeing most of the major houses going "Yeah, she makes a good point about the line of succession. Sorry about your entire family, by the way. Please don't go all daddy on us."

Now, the Lannisters and their allies are probably not too happy about the prospect of Stannis on the throne, but I'm willing to bet that house motherfucking Kingslayer fear a returning Targaryen about a million times more. The one thing both sides have in common is that they fucked her and her family something bad. Whatever they can do to each other is probably less of an issue than what she'll do to them if she becomes queen.

>>54017381
>>54017405
It's fucking retarded because 1) the loan was not necesssary, 2) they didn't suddenly just go "oh hey, pay us, bitch" it was what was agreed upon, and 3) you don't fuck the people who financed your fleet when they have way more money to throw at your enemy.

At the very least make a token attempt to pacify them.

>>54017586
Hey, if you say so, I believe it. It's been about four years since I read the books, and I binged most of them during a power outage in the middle of winter, so my reading experience was, while perhaps atmospheric, not the most conducive to fine analysis.

I must have been thinking back to some throwaway line about a rumor of it and considered that fact in the backwards.


Well, it's retarded for Cersei to tell the bankers to fuck off either way, since getting all defensive about the money you owe someone is only going to convince them you don't have it.

>>54017654
There are a lot of Targaryen loyalists in Westeros, anon, we see it in Jaime's chapters. Whole Dorne will support her after Young Griff is done. I can't see the Stormlands and the Reach going to anyone else too.

I mean, there are not many options here. If you don't support Daenerys, who do you support? Euron with his mad ambitions of becoming a god? Cersei with her insane desire to self-destruct? Stannis is not going to leave the North alive one way or another, and Young Griff is not for long in this world.

>>53994668
This. Also, fucking Melisandre needs to be killed.


Dany is probably going to win. But even if she manages to be a decent ruler, the curse that killed her baby in book one rendered her infertile. Even with her brother being still alive, and Jon Snow probably being the extra targ for the prophecy, and assuming Dany trusts them and doesn't have a problem sharing her power, I don't think they're going to manage to get a full blooded dragon controlling Targ heir, and that means we're right back where we started at the end of her reign.

>>54017880
>This. Also, fucking Melisandre needs to be killed.
Melisandre did literally nothing wrong, and you can't prove me wrong.

>>53994998
Yeah, she's basically as close to a Mary Sue as you can get in the Westeros universe.

I hope Arya and Sansa see through her crazy bullshit and kill her off, so people will learn a lesson about her and not just bitch and moan about how those men killed her because they can't handle a female ruler.

>>53995248
Because basic bitches with no sense of nuance really want to be Dany.

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>>53995248
They're the entire point of the story, though, and I don't mind them at all. In fact, I want to believe that GRRM will pull the rug under our feet near the end and turn the series into heroic fantasy because for most of the books, the action is realistic and it shows moral nuances and subverts a lot of expectations of stories of such type, but when the monsters will arrive, so will the clear cut heroes re-emerge to stop them.

>>54018187
Wait, you mean ASOIAF isn't heroic fantasy?

>>54017654
>most people still remember the last Targaryen who was in charge.

That's not an insurmountable problem. Yes, most people remember the Targaryens that way, but that's just a public image problem. Daenerys' court is extremely good at building Daenerys' public image. The last Targ caused chaos, but Westeros is in even greater chaos right now anyway. She's charismatic and diplomatic enough to present herself as a return of the heroic Targaryens of old come to restore peace.

>Now, the Lannisters and their allies are probably not too happy about the prospect of Stannis on the throne, but I'm willing to bet that house motherfucking Kingslayer fear a returning Targaryen about a million times more.

Stannis has built his entire claim around Lannister incest, and he does not into mercy. He would have Cersei, Jaime and all their children burned at the stake, and he wouldn't stop there. Daenerys if anything would be far too merciful. She might even let the Lannister children live.

>>54018244
>Daenerys' court is extremely good at building Daenerys' public image.
Killing everyone who disagrees with their precious waifu won't work in a continent-sized kingdom the way it works in one city.

>>54018302
>Killing everyone who disagrees with their precious waifu won't work in a continent-sized kingdom the way it works in one city.

Again though, does Stannis really offer a different solution? Does he even want a different solution? At very least, Daenerys is more agreeable than Stannis, so there will be fewer people to kill, and a much faster method of doing it thanks to the dragons.

>>54018302
>>54018244
Have either of you actually, you know, read the books? Daenerys isn't good at PR, but she never had a "kill those who disagree" policy.

>>54003941
AND MY AXE

>>54016723
You expect some of the personality to be intact. That's what 'merging' implies.

>>54018369
>she never had a "kill those who disagree" policy.
I'm sure the good masters would love to hear that.

>>54012622
Suddenly I feel slightly less awful about Dany as queen.

>>54017719
This. You welcome them in you explain the position you show how you might intend to service the loan and have a greater profit for them in the future.

You don't tell them to fuck off.

>>54018432
Those were her enemies, not her subjects.

>>54014957
House Greyjoy can't rule because their system only works if most of the nearby Lords don't follow their system.

>>54016906
It makes no sense that she leaves the dragons to be raised by her henchpeople without teaching them anything while her whole schtick is being "mother" to all these things. If she'd actually bothered to raise the damn dragons, she would have been better off. But like a FB mom, she only cared about them when they were tiny and cute.

>>54018505
Ironborn ruled before Aegon's Conquest just fine. True, those weren't Greyjoys, but they were still ironborn.
>But when you own the whole Seven Kingdoms, who do you reave from?
When you own Seven Kingdoms, you don't really need to reave anymore. But if you want to for prestige reasons, you can still do it in Essos, like Victarion is doing right now.
>But... We do not sow?
Does not apply to all ironborn, just to Greyjoys. Also, is a metaphor.

>>54014957
I don't know what I want more, for Euron to live up to all the hype, or for him to be instantly decapitated by Garlan in a side chapter while someone says, "Ironborn my ass."

>>54018552
She did tame Drogon. The issue with the rest is, you can only ride one dragon. She needs two more dragonriders, and not just anyone can be one. Poor Quentyn learned that.

>300 replies
>not even remotely /tg/
>>>/tv/
Reminder to sage and report offtopic threads

>>54017904
The old gods of the North are real per Bran's storyline. Didn't she claim that they weren't real?

>>54018343
>does Stannis really offer a different solution?
Yes, he does. He doesn't kill people who disagree with them, he listens to their arguments, and either provides counter-arguments or listens to their suggestions.

>>54018627
Religions tend to be incompatible, anon. Also, I'm not really sure how the Old Gods are real, unless you mean greenseers.

>>54018656
The three eyed crow and all the crap under the hill and everything.

>>54018633
Oh yeah, like he listened to Alester Florent. Wait, no, he burnt him alive.

>>54018614
We're discussing the fluff behind the AGOT LCG, do you think BL discussion belongs on /lit/?

>>54018669
Three Eyed Crow is neither a god, nor old. He's actually relatively new, with him living in the times of Aegon the Unlikely. Children of the Forest are also probably not the old gods, because clear distinction is made between them.

>>54018678
Alester went behind his back though.

>>53994117
Stannis killed his own kin in multiple ocasions, fuck him.

I actually agree with >>53994132, Robert didn't provoke all that shitflinging, his death is what made the war. Also Renly seemed a lot more proactive than Robert.

>>54018714
I'm not saying he was unjustified in killing him, I'm just saying that he burned him alive. Likewise, Good Masters were assholes and had it coming.

>>54018727
>Stannis killed his own kin in multiple ocasions, fuck him.
>being a showfag
>being a tripfag

>>54018633
>He doesn't kill people who disagree with them

The people that Dany's killed were not killed for disagreeing with her.

>>54018788
It's just this one shitposter who really hates Daenerys. He's been in the previous threads too, and he literally won't stop posting easily disproven bullshit again and again.

>>54018818
>Anyone who dislikes Kuhleesee is the same butthurt shitposter
How about fuck off?

>>54018852
Seriously?

>>54018583
>or for him to be instantly decapitated by Garlan in a side chapter while someone says, "Ironborn my ass."

GRRM would never do that.

>>54018852
No, every obvious shitposter who spams "DAENERYS JUST KILLS EVERYONE AND RUINS EVERYTHING" is the same guy, you. You even use the same phrases from thread to thread.

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>>53994117
Dany has a hard time proving better than Joff.

>>54018583
>>54019016
Is Garlan supposed to be some sort of huge badass? The wiki page doesn't say much about him other than being Renly's ghost and good at swords.

>>54019103
The sweepings of flea bottom are more badass than any greyjoy, and even Loras admits Garlan is better at swords than him.

>>54019103
Yes, Garlan is supposed to be really good, but he's also a minor character.

>>54019139
t. inbred Riverlander

>>54019139
Euron is going to burn down Oldtown. How do you feel about that, tyrrelcuck?

>>54019268
>301AC
>not being inbred
What are you, a peasant?

>>54017654

Houses Martell and Tyrell have nothing to fear from a Targaryan restoration; their houses were loyal all the way.

The Greyjoys only joined the rebellion late, when it was basically won already, and did nothing of consequence. so.. no problem there. Indeed, they actively later rose up against 'The Userper', which could be spun as a Targaryan-loyal move.

The Stark, Arryn and Tullywho led their respective houses into rebellion are all dead. The current house heads don't really ned to fear much.

House Baratheon is Stannis at this point, and he was in Storm's End for the entire rebellion. So, not directly culpable. The better question is if you could get him to his knees without breaking him.

And finally, Lannister. House of... the Kingslayer.

..Okay, so they're toast.

>>54019315
Oh God. I just realized. It's not gonna be Garlan that decapitates Euron.

It's gonna be Sam.

>>54019366
I would laugh myself sick if that happens.

Sam the Slayer rides again.

>>54019366
>Sam
FAT

>>53996746
>la perfide albion
this anon speak truly, the name should be ''Eire'', or green eirin

>>53999826
depends on the culture
greeks god for one of the most famous example, were neither evil nor good, they were very human, petty, wrathful, arrogant, lustful, but also compassionate, strong, etc
remenber there was a god of drunkood and orgy, the god of hell was actually pretty chill and the main god was a zoophile

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>>53999826
>The idea of gods being good is a very new concept
Wrong, you stupid nigger. The gods weren't evil, the cultures that worshipped them were different from yours and can't be judged by your modern morality. There's also a lot of stuff lost in translation, as well as good deeds or mundane deeds such as bringing a good harvest or having a mild winter (which is what people prayed for most of the time) are not re-told cause people don't find them interesting.

>>53999826
Dude.

Thor was the protector of mankind. That was his literal title. Odin would bring niggas to his feast hall where they could drink, eat and fight all they wanted until the end of creation.

And if the Norse gods are too recent, for every tale of a Greek god being a dick, there are like five of them teaching humanity things. Hell, the entire point of the story of Pandora is that the gods tried to keep suffering from us, but a human fucked it up and created evil.

As a matter of fact, I can't really think of a religion where the gods are all outright evil. Which makes sense, because who would choose to worship a god that was a dick when those guys over there believed in the cool gods? Which ironically was part of what made Christianity so appealing in a lot of the world. Christianity doesn't promise that a giant wolf will eat the sun and the moon, or that those who don't die in combat will be sent to Hel.

>>53999857
This. Their compact was based on a political marriage. Robb reneged on his end, and he did it knowing full well that Frey had a bit of a complex. Even if you think it's admirable he would marry a girl because he fucked her, it's a stupid fucking thing to do, and most certainly was a slap in the face for Frey. Now, I'm not saying he was justified in the whole Red Wedding incident, but Robb didn't exactly help the situation. I guess it's supposed to fit into the whole "Starks are too noble" thing, but Ned lied about making another girl pregnant to help someone else out. Robb wouldn't even take the hit to his honor by fulfilling his oath and raising the bastard. I mean, it's not like anyone thought the arrangement with Frey was anything other than a political marriage of convenience, and Frey of all people probably wouldn't give a fuck if Robb had side action as long as he was tied to the royal family by blood.

>>54021017
Walder Frey would betray Robb even if he didn't marry Jayne Westerling. Robb was losing the war, and Walder never supports the loser.