8e T'au Discussion Part 6: Non FW Riptides need not apply.

>>53936637
I wanna get one. Well you see I was gonna get the T'aunar before the 8th dropped. So what I plan to do is buy the Index (which is the same price as normal indexes). Once I buy it I will determine what forgeworld models, up to the value of a T'aunar, I will get. So if anyone beats me to it, lets hope they drop it on this thread.

>>53936637
did the imperium steal tau tech to make the hellguns the primaris marines use?

>>53936765
Book will be released Friday, so late that night or early Saturday morning we should have the epub.

I'm hoping the R'Varna and XV9s are worth their salt. Just got in with a Chinamen. Did an Elysian Drop Troops as my dummy order to make sure he's legit.

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>>53936890
If the Flamer on the Y'Vahra is anything to go by... Maybe.

I'm the guy that tabled the orks in 2 turns. Overwatch didn't do much more than soften units up. What wiped out the hordes of boyz was Strike Teams with Pulse Rifles and a Cadre Fireblade's Volley Fire giving them an extra shot at half range as well as marker drones giving reroll's for 1's. I would focus two 12 man squads against 30 boyz at half range and end up with 72 shots total between them. The other thing I did was use my stealth suits to drop a homing beacon to deep strike a squad of Crisis Suits with 3 flamers each within range, plus 6 gun drones pumping out a ton of shots.

>>53937260
Fuck you max

>>53936919

If the book releases after midnight BST day of.
Then we might see leaks tomorrow evening American time.

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Putting together a list, been slowly building up a small army over the last year. What do you think, anons?

Why are Tau plasma rifles and flamers so bad

>>53937639

because theyre a holdover from when tau plasma was "better" i.e. lower strength but no overheats, until Cawl solved plasma forever, and now it's just bad.

>>53937473
move the drone controller off the commander, give him another fusion blaster and put a drone commander on the stealth shas'vre. fusion quadmanders are gonna be suicide squads that generally aren't your warlord, so making him the drone controller doesn't make a lot of sense unless you change his weapons

also, you're gonna want a backfield drone controller for broadside drones, and in the future you'll probably want to add sniper drones as well (to the same backfield drone blob) so you want some kind of backfield controller unit as well
>>53937639
tau flamers aren't bad? they're just... flamers. and having lots of flamers in this edition is good, and they can take lots of them, so...

>>53936890
No tau stole their tech from Land's Vision an adeptus mechanicus ship found crashed on the innermost of T'au Seven's moons.

>>53936919
Yeah, lets see what the Rv does best. I think it should be the long range artillery type. Master of Mob Merking.
That role needs to be filled for tau

>>53937026
Thinking about it, it really is a nasty thing.
It can do solid numbers with one gun, crazy numbers firing both, and with Nova+MLs absolutely murder almost anything.

If you assume that would guns can be fired with Nova. Then versus a T8 tank
With MLs+Nova, firing both guns
About 19.5 wounds pre-save plus maybe 2 mortals.

>>53937473
Your stealth team has target lock and ats on the same model. You cant equip 2 support systems on a stealth suit.

Markerlight on Stealth Suit is never going to be used. If you cut it you can bring 1 more pathfinder.

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>>53937962
Reading the rules, it looked like the Shas'vre could take a support system on top of a marker+target lock combo package. I guess i read it wrong.

>>53937822
Yeah, the drone commander was an iffy idea. How about this, for something different?

>>53938162
>Reading the rules, it looked like the Shas'vre could take a support system on top of a marker+target lock combo package. I guess i read it wrong.
Nope I made a mistake

It seems like he can take both RAW

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Hows this look?

The idea is to have a core gunline with fire warriors, pathfinders, and tanks. Use the coldstar to harass, deep strike the commanders and crisis suit where necessary.

Ghostkeels and Stealth cover flanks, take objectives early to bait the enemy to come closer.

I could cut something to make room for a Sunshark Bomber, combos very well with the Coldstar. Maybe cut the Broadside?

>>53937857
I hope the RV is durable Battlesuit based arty. That'd be neat. If the XV9 are durable enough I think they could be a durable counter to assault armies.

As of now, I'd Nova the Y'Vahra the first turn and burn a Boyz mob. Nova lasts until the beginning of your next turn. So if he charges you he's on average down 14-16 boys by then. I'm sure with some Drones in tow, you can tank 13 Boyz and a Boss Boy with Klaw. Or, you charge him and block the way. Then, you shunt away and burn him. Granted, this Tide is gonna be pushing 300pts as well, it seems super durable.

>>53937639
Neither are bad. The Plasma Rifle is the most cost efficient weapon we got in terms of damage and points.

Flamers are Flamers. They just need to be on more platforms like Stealth Teams and have a Drone option as well. That'd be ace.

>>53937405
That'd be awesome!

>>53938827

I'd be surprised if it is less than 400 points loaded up. If it was only 300 points it would probably be straight up broken.
Flaming Boyz seems like a waste though. Frying heavier infantry seems much more efficient otherwise the D3 is wasted

>>53939062
Well, to put things into perspective, the Riptide is 17 power, the Stormsurge is 22 power, and Y'Vahra is 20 power.

If you go by the points in the picture it's about 120. The power difference is 5. So we can guesstimate that it's sitting pretty in the 380-400 range kitted out. Base is probably a bit more than your standard Tide.

Against Orks it may feel wasted, but any other opponent they'll be pissing down their pants leg. I mean a Bullgryn unit can get liquidated in one shooting phase even with a Slabshield.

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>>53939062
>>53939529
This picture...

>>53939529

It is pretty potent against tanks too. Can rack up like 10 wounds on a tank with just the flamer

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>>53939885
I think it (Y'Vahra) will definitely be the workhorse variant of the Riptides unless the R'Varna has some crazy strong anti-everything gun with really good range.

It's well worth the cost for how strong/tough it is, but I worry the Shield Drones won't be able to keep up. Question is what Support Systems do you throw on? ATS and that's it? The super Flamer doesn't really need much else nor can it really use the other ones.

I can see myself throwing a Y'Vahra in a Battalion detachment with the requisites to fill it out and then filling out a Supreme Command to get a bunch of Commanders, an extra CP, and a LoW slot if I wanted to bring a Surge. At 1850, it would be pretty stacked. Especially since I like to bring a Ghostkeel and some Stealth Suits to fill out the batt detachment. I'm hoping it's not 420pts. More like 350. Then I could try and fit in a Devilfish for my Breachers. At 1500 I'd drop the Surge.

>>53940896

>VT on a commander
Why?

Anyway, the 107 is definitely the ranged one out of the FW pair. Doubt it'll be anti-everything.

>>53937719

I complained about it on the 40k page

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>>53936637
>>53937026
Y'know, I've always wondered why the FW riptide variants had the same or even better invuln as their GW counterpart despite not carrying a shield generator on one arm.
Also, the Y'varha is mostly okay. It's tremendously short-ranged guns means it'll spend a lot of time dodging out of melee.

>>53942490

Cause FW knows that more guns would be cooler.
The 109 has a native 4++ for close range, without NOVAing. Unless it costs more than a Surge somehow it is looking fine

>>53942500
It *is* fine, I've tried mine already, but it is in constant danger as it skirts close to the enemy. It's kinda nerve-wracking.

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Long time Dark Eldar player here tapping into Tau because I've always wanted to but didn't want to purchase three riptides. I love both the feel of Tau infantry and their weaboo fightan mechas.

How is this list looking going into 8th ed? Any huge problems with it, anything that could be improved? It's my first Tau list so please be gentle.

>>53942631
High risk high reward
I think I really like the 109 having a different style. Up close but still Tau as opposed to shoot from the corner. Exciting mixup

>>53942654
Crisis aren't spectacular but commanders and ghostkeels are solid
Stealths are pretty decent too and homing beacons allows for drop ins into melta and flamer range

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>>53942778
I love Ghostkeels, however I also happened to acquire 14 crisis suits for absurdly cheap which are now sort of the backbone of my Tau Collection.

S-so someone please advise.

>>53942865
commanders, both coldstars and standard.
triple flamer crisis suits are value for hordes
try and convert one to be farsight if you don't own him

>>53942754
True. Its guns are brutal, but with the range limitation you'll need to adopt a balls-out playstyle. There is no hesitant play with the Y'varha. You either go all in or you don't go at all.
Really curious how the R'varna will work. In theory the new shooting rules should benefit it immensly.
Here's to hoping my tag team of Riptide, Y'varha and R'varna still work well together.

>>53942880
Thanks my man, I'll take your advice. I wanted to run an Enclave army anyway.

>>53942490
Actually, speaking of the R'Varna, how does that get to the battlefield? Are there Orca variants that carry it around? I kind of like the idea of a strike team of the three riptide patterns led by a Coldstar, but without flight the R'Varna would be the odd-one out...

>>53940896
>1850
Stop this

7th is dead

>>53942654
Burst Cannons are good but not on crisis suits. The fire warriors provide a lot of S5 shooting already, you dont need your expensive elite units doing the same thing as your basic infantry.

Fusion Blasters are really bad on Crisis Suits. For 315 you can take 3x Crisis with 3x FB each or you can take 2x Commanders with 4x FB each for 320 points and do more damage on average.

Crisis Suits shine with Cyclic Ion Blasters, Missile Pods, and Flamers.

I want to say you have too many crisis suits? Maybe include some longer range threats that force the enemy to come to you - right now they can turtle up and wait for your crisis to come down, completely ignoring all your fire warriors.

I don't see any reason to run more than 1 Fireblade, their effect doesn't stack. He is a good BS2+ markerlight but that's not worth 42 points. For 42 points you can take 5 pathfinders and get 2-3 markerlights on average per turn.

You have too many drones. Drones detach and form their own separate unit after deployment, which makes them easy prey in a kill points match.

Marker drones are strictly worse than bringing more Pathfinders in your list right now because you don't have a drone controller. Pathfinders are 8points for BS4+ while marker drones are 10 points for BS5+.

Longstrike: Rail Gun or Ion Cannon?

Rail Gun seems to be almost strictly worse against everything but T8+ vehicles/monsters, but is the 1 in 3 chance of doing mortal wounds worth it?

Meme list comprising almost entirely of stealth-themed units.

Viable?

>>53942631
>>53942490
I like the idea of an aggressive tanking unit. It's a strong distraction Carnifex that can get away. Don't forget the damn thing moves fast. So if it's really bad you can put a lot of distance between units. Plus you have drones for the really bad things that can do multiple wounds. >>53941462
It's my only designated AA unit. It will always hit a Supersonic unit on a 2+, by taking another gun and going to a 3+, that seems riskier to me.

>>53944266
You did read that I can drop the Surge if I wanted to play 1500 right? People play different points. If people are gonna play Power I can do 1850 on points.

>>53944671
Do it. Shadowsun, Stealth Teams, Ghostkeels, Firesight Marksman and Sniper Drones.

>playing in local tournament
>know the meta is full of people bringing lords of war
>bring a sky ray, 2 hammerheads (ion cannons), 1 longstrike (railgun), crisis suits, commander, pathfinders, and some fire warriors
>12 seeker missiles total
>first game
>playing vs magnus
>declare kauyon with coldstar on tanks and pathfinders
>deploy crisis suits and commander behind his army
>easily get 5 markerlights on magnus
>he takes 12 damage from seeker missile, 4 ion cannon hits finish him off

Easy win from there

Seeker missiles are amazing, people don't give them enough credit

So would a list based around Y'Vhara be a good idea?

>>53946237
That's pretty specific setup than can be ruined by lots of things but I guess when you can pull it off it's worth it.

It is versus a Magnus
Either kill him or be destroyed

>>53948013
I knew the meta would be full of big monsters. Everyone there wanted to try their stompas and trygons and all sorts of huge stuff

It would probably lose hard to a mass infantry list

>>53944347

Check the mathhammer spread sheet

>>53950795
There seems to be a lot of problems in it
Like the Commander doing less damage then crisis with better BS, and other things that make no sense like fire warrior doing more then 2 wounds in rapid fire

>>53944671
>>53945216
I actually want to run something like this but without the ghostkeel. Is it viable and how would I have to set it up?

>>53951194
Ghostkeel is kind of a lynchpin. You gonna use Kroot for troops in a Battalion or you gonna use the Outrider Detachment?

There's not that many stealth units though.

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>>53936637
Here is a pdf that I put together throughout the years, for those that have good taste and love the kroot.

The image quality wasn't the best to begin with, having had to resize it to be able to post it here made it worse. Still, someone might find it useful...

>>53951325
Vanguard detachment. 1-2 hq, 0-3 troops, 3-6 elites, 0-2 everything else.

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>>53951336
>for those that have good taste and love the kroot
>first half is some hyper tech tau+kroot hybrids
>when like the 1st bullet point of kroot is that they eschew tech as they think it'll make them weak

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>>53951517
Eh that's what I came up with. Very limited without a Ghostkeel calling the shots.

Here's a spicy hypothetical.

How does one build the least-bad Tau army that's specifically designed to be semi-regularly in close combat?

I'm thinking shield generators, flamers and overwatch abuse.

>>53952376
Farsight is a must. I would also say Flamer-focused commanders would be a good addition. Kroot hounds would offer some nice cheap assault power, and Shapers and Krootox can work to back them up. Breachers kind of work as close-quarters combatants, and Vespid can do alright in an assault.

>>53952376
Without forgeworld stuff I think crisis suits with shield+stimm+flamer with supporting infantry with photon grenades, maybe breachers to finish of units tarpitted by suits. Stealthsuits paired with photons also give that juicy -2 to hit against them. Both sucks against units with good AP and D. Maybe Kroot shaper with lots of doggos and oxes but they die to literally anything.

Has anyone ordered from red dog before? Thinking about getting these for my crisis suits since CIB are such a pain to get

http://www.reddogminis.com/catalog/item/9021373/10272853.htm

Hey Tau people!
I haven't played in a while I'm just curios about what I could do with what I have.

>4 full squads of rifle warriors
>1 squad of breachers
>2 Squads of Pathfinders
>1 Devilfish
>7 (new) broadside suits, 3 Rail+Plasma, 3 Missiles and 1 unassembled
>9 Crisis Suits
>1 Commander suit
>1 Cadre Fireblad
>1 Riptide w Ion + Smart Missiles
>1 Stormsurge unassembled
>An assorted mess of drones

Is there anything I really need that's missing or can I make due with this?

>>53952549
I'm a huge fan of the Ghostkeel and Stealth Teams. Still on the waiting on FW for the points and other profiles before I'd make any decisions as well.

>>53952549
Magnetize your suits and probably convert one or two of them into extra commanders. Maybe ethereal if you ever want to play smaller games and want to hit batallion for that extra 3 CP. Otherwise you should have ok collection there.

>>53952605
I like the idea of stealth teams but I want to get tanks first I think
>>53952613
Too late to magnetize

>>53952695
Never too late for that. You can disassemble them.

>>53952717
But I glued em?

>>53952790
If it's super glue put them into freezer. This should make the glue brittle and you can carefully snap/cut them. If it's plastic glue then you can cut them with hobby knife or cutters and greenstuff up any fuckups you manage to do. You have to anyway make some room for your magnets anyway.

Index leaks starting to hit oh boy

taunar up
it is a shooty beast

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First attempt at a 2k army or an 8th army

>>53956266
Well, I'm kind of disappointed that Technical drones can only repair battlesuits and not vehicles as well, but the ones I have should still get more use than just being stand-in marker drones now.

I'm kind of disappointed that Drone Sentry turrets can't deep strike now either.

Also, those Hammerhead variants actually seem somewhat useful now. Certainly better than they were in 6th/7th where they had too many guns to properly move and shoot.

>>53956855

Heavy Burst HH looks good. Basically looks like a straight up better Riptide for less cost

>>53956964
Yeah. Twice as many shots thanks to having 2 HBCs, and at higher BS, which is boosted even more with Longstrike nearby?

The only thing you lose out on is some of the support systems to make the AP better, but being so cheap in comparison really makes the decision easy.

>>53946320
Just one since they're ~400 base.

>>53942905
Balls out playstyle is a nice change of pace.

>>53942500
It's more than a barebone Surge funny enough.

>>53939062
You were right. 395 base and it's guns are free. Drones bring the cost up pretty quickly. Certain Support Systems cost more as well. A single Shielded Missile Drone and an ATS brings it to 428pts. I'll probably run the M52 Shield Drones since they have a better save, though they'll have a hard time keeping up with the suit.

>>53942490
With an average of 12 shots before Nova'ing, at 60" range, and with no Jet Pack/Fly capabilities. This guy is definitely arty. Its guns are only Str 6 with an AP-2, but the Damage of 3 is pretty solid. It's essentially the Phased Plasma Flamer, but without the auto hits and having more than 6x the range. Might pick it up as a chinacast for funsies.

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How is the Tiger Shark AX-1-0 supposed to fire its heavy railguns if Macro weapons can't move and shoot without Titanic, the AX-1-0 has no Titanic, and has to move at least 20 inches?

Also, why does the R'Varna have a specific list of wargear it can take and the Y'vahra does not?

>A Y'vahra can take a shield generator

oh baby

>>53956855
there's a repair drone?

>>53958104

dx4 technical drones can repair battlesuits now, same way techpriests fix tanks.

>>53956964
what hammer head variants are you talking about?

>>53958127
I dont see them in the pdfs

or the variant HH

>>53958104
See >>53958127

They can also give a unit the benefit of being in cover, like a sort of mobile terrain piece.

>>53958151
They're in the Forge World index, check the 40k general for a link

>>53957982
1) oversight from FW. gentleman's accord would give Titanic to it.

2) In 7th, the R'varna also was reduced to 2 choices from support systems. I think they just carried over with them.
At least the ATS is really good in him.

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>>53958131
the heavy bombardment hammerhead with HYMPs and the fire support one with plasma cannon, burst cannon, or fusion cannon

>>53958151
drone

>Hazard suits at 16 shots and 93 points
>Remoras at 8 shots and 91 points
>Tetras give you markerlight level 3 immediately
Awesome
>heavy gun drone at 8 shots and 38 points
>4 gun drones give you 16 shots at 32 points
nuts

>>53957997

Why bother? It makes no sense.

>>53958131
Fire support with Twin heavy burst. Forgeworld

>>53957876
>You were right
score

How do you think the HYMP hammerhead looks compared to a Broadside? It feels like the hammerhead wins out a bit in terms of mobility and durability.

>>53952546
I have but they havent arrived yet

>>53958246

Missilehead is like 260 points, better BS but no battlesuit synergy

>>53958246
HH clocks at 259, while Broadside at 202, I think.
The Broadie can take ATS and use nearby drones (now, technical drones repair it!). Of course, all of these increase its cost.

On the other hand, the HH has a better base BS, can be buffed by Longstrike (opening up good use of seeker missiles), has double wounds, better Toughness and Fly.

Guys, I finally shelled out for a Ghostkeel; is it easy to magnetise? I find myself less than eager to glue on either main weapon or any of the shoulder mounted ones.

>>53958324
yeah it's easy, a 3mm will do for the main weapon, but I used two anyway

>>53958225

heavy disappointment drones

>>53958363
Awesome; I use 2mm almost exclusively so I'll probably use 2 of them for the main gun, 1 each for shoulders.

>>53958225
>remoras don't have markerlights anymore
>remoras aren't actually stealthy anymore
nuts

What's a good option for multi-damage weapon units without resorting to missile-sides and broadsides in general? I was thinking the r'varna

>>53958635
not to mention being squishier than a crisis suit

>>53936637
Not impressed by ORLY.
He does good damage on vehicles but has to be close enough not to get his good invul against them. His babby lascannon is nice but he can't actually target characters. No more photon casters, and his drones aren't actually special anymore either, it's just an artifact name.

>>53957982
I came here just because i just read that rule. God damn, only bought the index cause i want to play with my tigershark. Must need to be faq'd to be titanic.

GIVE ME AX-5-2 and RVARNA RULES AND POINTS OH MY GOD

>>53937026
Those sheets look so boring compared to Age of Sigmar sheets.

>>53958319
Does Longstrike actually buff the FW tanks? His rule cites the TX7 Hammerhead Gunship unit by name instead of using the keyword system (which is stupid, everything should be using keywords).

It also looks like you can't put Longstrike in the FW tanks either, since his tank is its own unit and the FW HHs are their own units.

What's a good proxy for snapfit cadians and conscripts?
I was thinking gun or sniper drones.

>>53959220
Kroot. They're Gue'vesa Auxiliaries instead of Kroot Auxiliaries.

>>53959210
Don't really know about the first (GW and FW not talking about their own units? Shocker!), but the last is a no-no. Longstrike comes from his stock tank; he's not Chronus that can hop inside many different SM tanks.

>>53959210
That's probably going to need another FAQ to clarify that he can buff forgeworld Hammerheads, though I think it's not too terrible of a loss for him to not get the forgeworld guns

>>53958225
Tetras look shitty, honestly. Having three marks tied up into one shot is way worse than having multiple shots for one mark each.

Man, just fiddling around with finding relative ppw against MEQ and GEQ literally everything in the FW index fucking blows. I haven't done them all yet but christ everything is so expensive and so underpowered. I can't see the point in taking any of this garbage now, outside maybe the HH tanks for the extra resilience they get over the Broadside and even then only if you actually could buff them with Longstrike.

Super, super disappointing.

What stuff needs to be FAQed?
I know about the Tiger Shark macro thing

>>53959842
Longstrike giving his BS bonus to the variant Hammerheads, since it makes no sense otherwise.

Anything else need to be FAQed?
I'll post it on their page and hope they get around to it

>>53959210
>>53959272
No he doesn't and shouldn't. Honestly, FW shouldn't even be match-play/tourny legal.

>>53936637
Is there any sort of guide for converting Tau mech feet? They're ridiculously small and unstable. Even with stabilizing systems they'd be easy to tip over and would sink into soft ground.

>>53960366
Why not? They're as much a part of GW as anyone else, they just make better minis.

>>53952234
would remove the sunshark for the other flyer, you need some light vehicle killers not horde clearer

>>53952469
Darkstrider to support the breachers

Someone post Ta'unar please. Also R'varna.

I'm playing, what amounts to a 500 pt beginners game Sunday, and as a Tau player I feel like I'm always boned when it comes to heavy armor units.
I especially hate Terminators.
Would it be cheesy of me to make a quad FB Commander for such a battle, just so I don't have to worry?

What's this about Remoras being mediocre now? Has it been leaked?

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Playing in a 1200pt tournament in a couple of weeks, thoughts?

>>53960866
Yeah. They don't have any sort of stealth or hit penalty aside from the typical flyer one, and the only rule they get for it is stealth-fluffed deep-striking.

On top of that, they're only about as durable as a crisis suit, and they're like 70 points once you actually give them guns, they don't seem worthwhile.

A Coldstar commander would probably do more work

Okay, I might be retarded but I hope I'm not. I see the point values in the very back of the Index book, and then I see the Power Level on the actual statline of the models. Which do I use? Where does it say, in either rulebook or codex, which value I'm supposed to use? What the hell does the Jet Pack keyword do? Or Drone? Apparently I can take all Crisis Suits, but am I using the statline presented? Or am I building them from scratch using the point values in the back of the book?

Does a Gun Drone cost 8 points or 0.5?

>>53960987
Read the rulebook

>>53960909
>Just finished converting a remora from a recon drone which took me a few weeks to design/get right
>Only fielded it once ever becauyse cusp of 8th
>It's now fucking dogshit

I don't even know why I fucking try.The longer I take to perfect a conversion of sorts the more likely that unit will be turned to rancid shit and unusable shortly after.

>>53960987
I am, that's the problem.

>>53960996
Godff--- I am reading the rulebook. That's the problem.

>>53960429
because as bad as the balance for codeces has been over the years, FW is somehow always twice as bad. Either overcosting or badly undercosting everything.

>>53951144
>Commander doing less damage then crisis with better BS
The spreadsheet is listing damage for 3 crisis suites and 5 fire warriors at once.

>>53961077
Advanced rules section, building detachments.
Also look at the rules under three ways to play.

Basically, Power Level is meant for casual/open games, Points is for Matched/Tournament.
Use one or the other. The only one who cares is your opponent.

>>53960776

Check the new general for the taunar stats

Has anyone else noticed that we're the new tyranids?

Our lists are now nothing but several of the few good Heavy Support, some stealthy, homing beacon Elites, forgeworld shit, and then spamming as many of the shooty flying HQ unit as we can fit.

>>53957952
how do you find out about chinacast websites?

>>53961163

I dunno Fwarrior and drone hordes are effective too

>>53961119
Okay. Thank you.

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For lazy people

429pts before Support Systems and Drones

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>>53961301

395pts before Support Systems and Drones

>>53961313
The 109 definitely suits me best, having something other than multiple commanders to fill gaps in my skirmish line is welcome

So what units do I want, I got a start collecting box and that is it so far. Do I get another one ? Will I use 6 suits in a 2k game ?

>>53961220
Google.

So are remote sensor towers worthwhile at all?

>>53961390
Depends
Can pass em as commanderd to

What you need next depends on your goal list ie tanks v suits v troop spam
But another start box would be safe too

>>53961413
If I play what you see is what you get can I still pass off the crisis suits as commanders ?

>>53936637
>taufags start their own thread to avoid bullying in /40kg/

>>53961313
About 14 damage overcharged to a Land Raider per turn, not bad, almost as much as a knight.

Is it just me or are most of the FW units kinda mediocre-to-pointless now?

>Heavy gun drones flimsy and inefficient
>Sentry turret and sensor tower too short ranged/inefficient respectively
>Heavy Bombardment Hammerhead is worse than a Broadside
>Remoras shit
>Hazards flimsier than Ghostkeels and they're best gun (Fusion Cascade) is supershort ranged, low movement and not much to save you from getting your shit wrecked in shooting at an almost equivalent pricetag
>Tetras are 106 base when you can get tons more markerlights for cheaper elsewhere
>Commanders are meh

Pretty much anything that isn't a big expensive model sounds pretty lackluster to me.

has the R'rvarna been completely nerfed or am I missing something here?

Didn't the cannon ramp up damage the bigger the target got (fluff wise from the incredible amount of sub-munitions hitting them simultaneously?).

>>53957982
Use commander for Kauyon
Flyer can't move
Fire the weapon
You can't your flyer was destroyed
>GW

>>53962293
I wouldn't say nerfed, but the mechanic changed for sure.
Although 3 to 9 S6 shots are not gonna bring down a leman russ, it will still suck for Light infantry to light Vehicles

>>53958639
cyclic ion blasters, fusion blasters, missile pods

hammerhead ions

>>53961795
i think its more that 40kg moves too fast to have any kind of serious discussion

>>53961220
It's like a rite of passage. You have to do some homework on Google and look up his email. Check older threads and r/yoyhammer.

>>53960610
I made that for the anon that asked for it. No clue if he's replied.

>>53962278
HGD were always bad
Sentry Turret are mostly to stick to objectives. They're cheap
HYMP Hammerhead doesn't seem that bad to me. Double wounds on a Broadside and BS3+
Hazards were never as hardy as Ghostkeels

just discovered that Sabre Weapons Platform from IA AM index can get a defence searchlight for 0p (the platform costs 20p) and select one enemy unit within 48". One unit in the army can get a +1 to hit against that enemy.

Since when AM has markerlights?

>>53963541

Since yesterday. Get fucked xenos scum.

>>53963541
20 points to give ONE unit +1 to hit

I think that's fine

>>53961301
Someone fucked up that cost.

Why is the 109 cheaper than the 107 in pts despite costing more in power levels? Is it another typo?

>>53964117
Forgeworld has the dumbs

>>53964117

Who knows

Been looking over Shas'O R'alai and I'm wondering if he'd be a good addition. He seems quite survivable and the gun looks versatile.

>>53966763
if they errata him to get Sniper, then he will be great. still so angry that he lost it in 7th from 6th due to characters losing the ability.

>>53966938
So he's not good as is? I noticed the EMP shot is actually worse against vehicles than the other. Most vehicles are T7 with a 3+ same or around abouts. Wounding on 5s and only giving them -1 AP for 1 damage ain't that good. But the Sabot wounds on 3s, is -2 and deals 2 damage a pop. Far more reliable honestly.

The Skimmer Piranha is looking pretty decent?

>>53966938

One of the things I posted about on the 40k page
Hopefully he gets it so he can be useful.

Kindof interested in sensor towers. They're dirt cheap and get 3 markerlight counters on a 50% chance but flimsy as fuck. Any thoughts about it?

>Tiger sharks can take heavy burst cannons and railguns instead of just the ion cannons
oh baby

I haven't played tau (or warhammer frankly) since tau were first released

What's different since then?

All I remember is all the crisis battlesuits looked fucking retarded but were actually pretty good and could do fancy shit like jump in and out of cover, and stealth suits were fucking awesome and could blast entire squads of orks and regular tau infantry kind of sucked if you didn't have layered defense/gunlines.

>>53969289
>What's different since then?
Everything

8th edition is so different to every previous edition, it's basically a completely different game

Crisis Battlesuits can't do the Jump Shoot Jump thing any more but they are fast, tough, can fly (which lets them ignore scenery/models as well fall back from combat and still shoot normally), and can deploy anywhere on the board (more than 9" away from an enemy) by dropping in from near orbit. This lets you put out a ton of shooting power anywhere you want, whenever you want.

Stealth Suits are awesome.

Everything in the army is awesome in its own way.

>>53968522

I think it also confers rerolls 1s to any single nearby unit

>>53969395
Yeah it does but we get so many sources of that, it's not even that big of a deal. I want to know if it's generally worthwhile using 1 or 2.

>>53969529
Well the rules came out today so check back in a few weeks when people have had time to playtest and can form an opinion

>>53969659
Yeah, fair point. May try them myself too. Doing a game tomorrow and playtesting a shitload of new tactics and units, actually pretty stoked.

>>53969788
I suspect that the Fortification tag makes it really hard to fit a lot of them into your army because of how Detachments work and the 3 detachment limit at 2000 points

Let us know how it goes

>>53969810
The detachment limits are only for organized events like tourneys and even then, has to be agreed upon so that's no problemo, can fit as many as you want.

I will, though sensor towers will come at a later date. Fortification-wise I'm testing out Shieldlines tomorrow. Giving one to a 10-man pathfinder team with rail rifles for protection and trying out a 9-man breacher/Darkstrider combo in one.

Shieldline advances, takes a charge from marines. Disembark within 5", mark 'em up and then let loose with 18 AP-2 shots wounding on 2s. If the shieldline is still alive, embark and repeat.

Keep posting about stuff that may need to be FAQed, I'll post it to Facebook.

So far I mentioned, Tigershark macrogun, whether longstrike buffs FW tanks, and whether orly should be able to target characters like a sniper

>>53961301
if you do the math on how many wounds you can expect to inflict, even with markerlights, that thing is so bad and inefficient it's downright hilarious

>>53970017
points costs vs power levels for the two riptide variants, since it looks like they're backwards. one costs more power but less points and vice versa, and it's not like they have any real weapon options

>>53970017
- Can Y'vhara move after using its Escape Thrust ability, when arriving at the start of your next movement phase?

- Does the Y'vahra get to use 1 or 2 main weapons nova profiles when activating Overcharge Burst nova ability?

- Technical Drones not repairing vehicles: intentional?

- Shas'O R'myr with Upgraded Shield Generator, but doing exactly the same of a normal Shield Generator

- Any reason for the FW hammerheads base cost (without wargear) to be so expensive, regarding the normal GW Hammerhead

- Shas'O R'alai drones don't have Stable Platform, meaning they'll fire at BS6+ if they move
Also, R'alai has no Drone Controller or Photon Casters. Intentional?
Finally, he has no Sniper rule when he has other special rules regarding characters. Intentional?

- Swiftstrike Railgun is almost double price of a Heavy Rail Gun, albeit at half range. Intentional?

- Can Longstrike buff nearby FW Hamemrheads?

can someone post the point sheets for tau???

>>53970221
oh, and why Tetras don't have Homing Beacons anymore

>>53971697
>>53970221
Add in: why don't hazards have better ws? that was one of their more notewo7rthy characteristics.

>>53970609

Check the links in the general

What guns are better for a Pathfinder team in a Devilfish, Ion or Rail? I plan on sticking a small team in there.

I was also considering putting some Heavy Gun drones with them. The ones with markerlights and burst cannons are only around 30 points, but a marker and gun drone do the same work for 20. The main reason i was considering it is because it would be an extra wound to tank damage while also taking up fewer transport slots

>>53973907
Ion rifles seem better in general, especially when you compare the costs.

>>53973907
I have to agree with >>53973949
I have 3 Rail rifles (the old metal ones so no choice) and wish they were ion at this point. Still. AP4 is nice, especially with a recon drone denying cover.

>>53969366
>Stealth Suits
My Gue'la.

>>53973949
>>53974037
Good to know at least. I was considering the rail as a sort of alternative to Fusion blasters elsewhere, but they seem really steep for what they do.

>>53974184
There is no alternative to Fusion Commanders, honestly. Maybe Railgun HHs, but for raw vehicle/monster removal power nothing else even comes close. They're not just one of the best anti-vehicle units for Tau - they might be top three in the entire game in terms of cost efficiency and damage per turn.

>>53974267
XV9 Hazards with Fusion Cascade might be interesting.

2 XV9 with 2 fusion cascades each = 262p; BS4+
avg 8 shots at max 12"; 4 hits, 4d6 dmg

3 XV8 with 2 fusion blasters each = 252p; BS4+
avg 6 shots at max 18"; 3 hits, 3d6 dmg

Commander does their job for 100p less, though...

>>53974530
base xv9s with burst crisis compares even more favourably

2 XV9 (W10) with 2 double barreled-burst cannons each = 186p; BS4+
32 shots; 16 hits


vs

3 XV8 (W9) with 2 burst cannons each = 186p; BS4+
24 shots; 12 hits

3 XV8 (W9) with 3 (!) burst cannons each = 216p; BS4+
36 shots; 18 hits

with the points difference between 2 XV9s and 3 Crisis with 3 BCs you can bring 3 drones and a drone controller for the hazards. And they'll have 1 more Wound on the suits + 3 drones as ablatives

>>53974267

Lol averages a total of 7 wounds against a T8 target in melta range
Hitting all for boosts the average to 9 wounds in melta range
The above line against T7 bumps the average to 12.

Really just packs a brutal punch for great value

>>53974686
Yeah, it's not even close to anything else Tau can bring. 2-4 of them in any list is a must-take in my opinion. You might give up kill points, but they'll neutralize whatever you need them to on the turn they arrive basically guaranteed. That kind of insanely reliable large target removal out of reserves is hard to come by and should probably be one of the main strengths of the faction in 8th (alongside massive massed S5 firepower from infantry/drone lines for very cheap).

>>53974670

Can also bring an ATS on the Hazards

>>53974726

Also, it has a maximum wound delivery of 24.
Given the BS and and good DS favourability.

Dropping in and hitting something with 18+ wounds will happen.
Thing will occasionally drop in and nuke someones heavy vehicle in one volley. Making back its points and then some in one phase

>>53974876
Will a fusion commander reliably kill a land raider in one go?
Suppose 1 ML token on it

>>53974905
Reliably? No. But you would have about at least a 50% chance of doing at least enough damage to take it below half wounds and lower its BS. It's kind of why you want to take a few of them and really annihilate whatever you're going after. They're cheap enough that taking 3-4 of them really isn't a big deal.

>>53974905

will average 9 wounds in that case
but there is a chance it will, and it will happen over the course 8th edition

>>53974905
>>53974876
Also consider than most LRs are about 50-100% more expensive than a Commander, so even if you dedicate two of them to shooting one LR you're getting the most of the points back right away in addition to dismounting whatever was inside and potentially killing some with explosion damage.

Anything weaker than a LR - T7 3+, like most vehicles and monsters - will probably die to just one Commander unless you get bad rolls. DSing a bunch of them in as an alpha strike or after they've advanced and gotten spread out can seriously cripple a lot of armies.

The list I was looking at doing was 9 min strike squads, 9 commanders and possibly some other stuff to support the Fire Warriors. That way you get some markerlights (from the FW Shas'uis), a decent chunk of S5 backline and a lot of DS firepower than can all go in reserve. Downside is that's a LOT of deployment drops so you're not getting first turn unless it's against a similar DS focused army (like Command Squad Scion spam).

>>53975128
If you bring an Orca, you can put all those FW squads inside and count as 1 deploy

Any shoe box can proxy as one!

>>53975245
Eh, I'd rather have them on the table to benefit from shared overwatch in the event of a turn one charge. Also, those things are crazy expensive and would cut into the available points defeating the purpose (since I wouldn't have enough to actually take 9 commanders at that point unless I cut all of the Fire Warrior's support units... and even then I'm not sure...).

Other benefit of 9 strike + 9 Commander - it's super easy to build if you just use normal suits as commanders, since all you'd need to do is by the Start Collecting box a few times, a couple more fire warrior boxes, and some third party gun bits (36 battlesuit weapons adds up quick), and possibly (probably) a Cadre Fireblade (or just model one of the spare FWs as one).

>>53975333
How are you equipping those commanders, if I may ask?

>>53975391
5 with quad CIB, 4 with quad plasma. I looked at the difference between 3 CIB + ATS vs 4 CIB, and while the 3 + ATS build is slightly more efficient the 4x build still gives slightly better throughput. It's a tradeoff, but I'd rather have them absolutely kill what they're coming in after than leaving a few things alive to return fire just to be a smidge more cost efficient.

>>53975444
>>53975391
>quad plasma
Quad Fusion, I meant. Quad Plasma is fairly efficient but just doesn't have enough damage output especially since you have to risk 12" rapid fire range to even compare.

>>53975458

Plasma is lame for Tau
CIBs and missiles are pretty good

>>53975496
It's pretty efficient, but again it just doesn't bring enough pain and it's pidgeonholed into 1w T3 and T4 model killing. CIBs and Missiles are way more versatile. For a reserve commander I'd just go for the brutal alpha strike damage of the CIBs, but if you wanna be evasive with Crisis Suits + Drones I think Missiles could be decent. The unit's gonna probably last longer and get more turns of shooting in which can potentially offset their reduced number of shots compared to CIBs.

That said, I think just taking Commanders and killing as much as you possibly can in one volley of Mont'ka death is going to yield better success than trying to Kauyon your way around using Fly to jump out of combat and still shoot. Crippling the enemy with all of your power units shooting in one go before they get a chance to shoot back at the Commanders ought to be enough to keep most of them alive to continue to shoot in subsequent turns. The real risk is how much damage they can do to the Fire Warrior backline in their first turn before you get to do much about it.

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>>53975606
>The real risk is how much damage they can do to the Fire Warrior backline in their first turn before you get to do much about it.

And that's why you shold try to get as much terrain as possible. Tables like pic related are terribad for your strategy

>>53975843
Yeah, from what I understand 8th edition needs lots of terrain, especially line of sight blocking terrain, even more than 7th edition did, and that's saying a lot.

After double checking the math and realizing I was overvaluing CIBs (a lot) I went back and redid the list with 5x Commanders with x3 Burst Cannon + ATS and 4x Commanders with 4x Fusion, and between cutting the random shield drones and Ethereal along with the extra points from taking dirt-cheap Burst Cannons instead of Ions I had enough left over for two whole Ghostkeels. Seems like a much better list.

In total, it's two batallions and one supreme command detachment for 10 CPs, 9 commanders, one Cadre Fireblade, 45 fire warriors (including 9 with markerlights) and two Ghostkeels. Ghostkeels probably screen for and defend the Fire Warriors while the commanders drop in and obliterate two to three key infantry units and two to four tanks (or a Knight equivalent + a tank). The burst cannon commanders alone average 16.65 unsaved wounds vs MEQ and 27.75 vs GEQ, and that's before the FW line opens up on anything. Fusion Commanders can each easily average one medium MC/vehicle per turn or double up for a heavy vehicle per turn.

Not bad, pretty good? Seems good on paper to me, at least.

>>53976637
Also, didn't factor in markerlight rerolls at all for estimation. If you do the 3x BS + ATS commanders get stupid and go up to like 19.44 average unsaved wounds vs MEQ. That's easily almost all of a marine gunline list's shooting power or pretty much two full units of necron warriors. It's also easily enough to kill like 30 guardsman or an entire conscript/boyz horde unit. Yikes.

Anyone have the rules for the FW commanders?

>>53977022
There's mega links in the main 40k thread with the new FW index files.

They suck. Don't bother.

>>53976883
>It's also easily enough to kill like 30 guardsman or an entire conscript/boyz horde unit. Yikes.

It's like our particular Grav-flux Bombard

>>53977061
It doesnt work for me for some reason

>>53977083

quadmmander is truly a miracle

>>53977103
Reload the page after opening the link in a new window, i had the same problem for a while

Commander 3x burst ATS
With MLs pushes about 8 wounds
So each commander can kill 6.67 GEQs and 4 MEQs in a phase

Hazard bursts look pretty good too

>>53977689
Even with marker support hazards only average 39 points per wound with quad burst, they're a lot less efficient and less killy than burst commanders.

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>>53978294
I think they're pretty close. Did pic related.
1x XV9 with DC, DBBC and 4 drones
2x XV9 with DBBC and ATS

vs

3x BC Commanders with ATS

(not considering MLs or invuls)

>>53977504
No I mean it loads and everything but no text appears, only the templates of the datasheets

>>53978294
>>53978375

Not as good as quadmannder but still decent

>>53978447
If they were T6 they'd be worth considering, but since quadmanders are already t5 w6 it doesn't really work

that said commanders will probably get a points increase when they get a codex

>>53978492
>>53978447
they also don't have good WS anymore, whereas commanders are WS3+ and may actually kill a man in close combat if they get charged

Sent some more questions to GW for hopeful FAQing
Boy, I wonder if they'll acknowledge the sheer error count

Fusion blaster are within half-range (so "within 9 inches", not-deep striking is "more than 9 inches". Am I correct in thinking this means you're out of melta range if you turn up from deep strike? Or does GW count "within" as "less than or equal to and "more than" similarly for whatever reason?

>>53980130
You are correct, can't get to melta range with manta strike. But you can bypass it with homing beacon.

So, what are the most efficient ways to do S5 spam/small arms/anti-horde fire in a battlesuit list?

Stealth suits?

Tri-burst crisis?

Tri-flamer crisis?

Quad-burst XV9?

Ablative gun drone swarms with some drone controllers?

Remoras? Those are still in theme.

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>>53951720
>The 40k universe spans a whole galaxy with zones incommunicated for long periods of time, feral worlds, medieval worlds, hive worlds, forge worlds, maiden worlds, demon worlds, tomb worlds, the Eye of Terror, pockets of warp, the webway, and who knows what else, populated by a myriad of species that change wildly from one place to another.
>All of the kroot have to conform to the ideology of their home planet, even if they are a roaming band of mercenaries on the other end of the galaxy.

I pity that your imagination is so atrophied.

>>53980472
Being special snowflakes ignoring everything we know about Kroot ethos isn't more imaginative. It's like going "my Tau are heavily individualistic ancaps", "my sisters are actually athiests who only think of the emps as a good man" or "my orks are pacifists", and then going "it's a big galaxy and my imagination is better" when someone points out that they're the polar opposite to what the faction is about.

>>53980726
But it is stated in the fluff that kroot mercenaries will fight for weapons, among other things. They eschew technology in things OTHER than weapons and spaceships.

Learn your fluff.

>>53980785
Well at least you've changed your argument to something a bit more sane. Still, super-tech goggles are not a 'weapon'.

>>53980407

Burst Commanders
Stealth Suits
A billion drones

>>53980821
First, there are exactly 4 conversions in that PDF, among scores of them, that use goggles.

Second, they use scopes in their rifles. That's just one step from using other visual aid like goggles, that help them fight in whatever environment they find themselves in.

>>53980868

>Stealth suits

I own 18 stealth suits, does this mean I'll be okay if I treat those as my "troops" models in a battlesuit army?

>>53981044
In a tournament, likely not, but in a friendly game your opponent would have to be an asshole to oppose.

>>53981044
You could, although you could just field the vanguard? detachment (the one that's 1 Hq and 3+ elites) and filed them as stealth suits.

I didn't mean literal troops, that was what the "" was for.

I meant filling the role, the tactical role, of troops. Sorry if that was unclear.

>>53980472
Do the Gue'vesa have any rules in 8th? Is it still acceptable to just run them as IG/Tau?

>>53981464
It depends on your group asif they'd let you, but there isn't a faction keyword shared between the two.

>>53981606
I wouldn't mix the two, my question was if you could simply run them as either. Apologies if that was unclear.

>>53981464
>>53981628
Again, depending on the tournament they might give you shit for it, but in a friendly game, a properly converted army is the delight of any decent hobbyist.

>>53981340
18 stealth suites with bc+ats is 684 points, equivalent to 80 firewarriors and pathfinders. They'll throw out about 3x as many shots. So don't expect to shoot down Ork Boyz, Conscripts, or Pox Walkers with a suite battle line.

>>53982084
Padding your numbers with drones is both pretty easy and valuable for suit armies anyway.

>>53981340
>>53982789
Yeah, Stealth Suits with Drone controllers leading flocks of gun drones would be a good answer. That gives you a lot more firepower and bodies to work with

>>53960882
Are you in Niagara Falls?

ITC is changing Kill Points to be based on power level instead of 1 per unit. The kill points you gain are equal to the power level of the unit.

Drones are not complete garbage in ITC

How useful would the FW Technical Drones be for a vehicle-focused army? I had some lying around and was hoping I'd be able to use then to repair tanks, but would their ability to supply cover bonuses be helpful?

>>53982903
Nice. Maybe Reece doesn't hate t'au after all.

>>53982903
That's...actually a pretty sensible change. It helps put more weight on the actual value of the unit killed, instead of something like an all Knight army being Insta-win against MSU spam for killpoints

>>53982922

you know he nerfed tau to boost attendance and money into his tournament scene.

Anyone know a good way to pick up extra SMS bits? I wanted them for a Devilfish, but it only has drones

>>53978492
They beat commanders at 5 lights at least by a narrow margin.

>>53980821
aircraft vessel is not a weapon! the guns on aircraft are tho :^)

>>53982908

They can't repair tanks only suits

back from my 2k game against BT. I won by a decent amount.

>Carnivores, Krootox and Shapers are shit. The only thing they do well is die and an MSU hound squad can do that better
>Funnily enough, 2 MSU hound squads killed a 5-man assault marine squad with a fist and 2 flamers, making their points back like sixfold.
>Breachers inna shieldline tactic didn't work as well as I'd hoped. Shieldline got blown up turn 1 shooting. They DID still fuck up the vanguard vets though
>Ghostkeel going full fusion is great but fuck me, borderline suicide unit
>Stealthsuits KING

>I fucking hate the Emperor's Champion
>Declare Kauyon with Shadowsun
>3 6-man teams, PAC drone, Fireblade
>Cause 21 fucking wounds
>SAVES ALL BUT 2

>TH/SS Terminators literally survived this kind of shit twice.

Friend said they will become staples of every list. Aun'va save me, I need a mortal wound dispenser or 3.

>>53984509
Seeker missiles my man. 5pts for one-use-only mortal wounds. Be aware that you need 2 markerlights on something to fire them at full BS.

>>53984561
Problem is my theme doesn't allow me to field almost anything that has access to seeker missiles except for Remoras which are shite. I may be able to excuse a sunshark bomber though..

>>53984584
Doesn't sound really tau like to be so unflexible. Also consider railfinders or railsides (who can also have a seeker per suit).

>>53984676
It's just because my Sept is a planet-wide forest so it's great for infantry movement and sneakan around, ambushes, infiltration and all that but it really hampers the movement of large or otherwise not-very-mobile stuff. I can excuse a Ghostkeel but a broadside is a lumbering beast that doesn't even have jetpacks..

I have 3 rail rifles but being reliant on 6s for mortal wounds makes them not something you should bet on. I'd love to field something more efficient but I don't want to sacrifice my theme to win games, wouldn't sit well with me.

>>53984774
Well in the older editions tau had sensor spines for vehicles which allowed them to navigate some really rough and dense terrain with relative ease.

>>53984806
Yeah you're right, I need to keep that stuff in mind. Mind you I actually don't like Tau Vehicle aesthetics at all.. If I want mortal wounds I'd have to get myself a bomber or a skyray, or rely on railsides probably.

>>53984774
Broadsides with Rail Rifles feel like they would fit fine in a forest. Less cha,ce of them crashing into trees, and they can have easy camp while sniping targets through foliage

>>53984908
Also rail rifle punches through branches and shit like it's nothing.

>>53984915
>>53984908
Yeah hah, that is a good point. Telemetry from scouts would give them targets and the enemy gets ambushed... from 10 miles away with a slug that makes their tank turn inside out.

I'll give them a try next game, most likely.

>>53984274
I know they can't repair tanks. I was asking if their secondary function would be useful enough to warrant the price.

Is it just me or are two Hammerheads and Longstrike far better than three Broadsides? My Broadsides cost an assload of points and they die so fast. I've been running them with shield generators every time, I've fielded all the loadouts now, and all I can see is that there's no reason to field them instead of Longstrike and friends. I'm really disappointed because I love their model, but I just can't justify their points cost anymore. I might drop them altogether and replace one with a Hammerhead, the other with 25 Fire Warriors.

>>53985007
You tried taking pathfinders with railguns?

Havent crunched it but that's gotta be a fairly cheap source of mortals.

>>53985157
Shield gens are a waste on broadsides. Either they do nothing against lower AP, or you're better off transferring high AP shots to nearby drones.

>>53985188
Potential mortals. And if you don't want them blown off the field while still being active, you need to bring a shieldline.

>>53985210
I don't get the drone meme. Drones are a separate unit, there is literally nothing stopping your opponent from shooting the drones with S4 before dumping fire on the big target.

>>53985219
Put them in high ruins and give them a couple shield drones, they've got mad range so in most scenarios they can stay far enough away.

Assuming they're cheap enough, they dont need to do much to earn their cost.

Remember to send GW feedback cause they'll make decisions based off it

I wonder when the first balance changes will come

>>53985258
Hide the drones behind nearby scenery or the unit in question.

>>53985258
Generally, your broadsides should be far enough back that any weak shooting wont be getting very close

>>53985157
>Is it just me or are two Hammerheads and Longstrike far better than three Broadsides?
Better at getting hit by heavy weapons and exploding, yes

Broadsides are harder to kill than tanks because of how Drones can absorb heavy weapon hits

>>53985300
>>53985287
>>53985265
I'm starting to think that the primary problem with my list is that I'm regularly playing against Dark Eldar. Fucking splinter weaponry is just ruining my shit when it's not 16 dark lances on the field. Fucking 5+ invulns are just negating half my shit, I've got -1 to hit on the basic transports and fucking everything has 4+ to wound. I still like Longstrike and friends, they work even against Dark Eldar.

>>53985433
You didn't want to take broadsides because forest, but hammerheads are a-ok?

>>53985715
Different poster

>>53985433
Man, I'm the forest guy and the only player I have right now is my BT friend who plays fluffy. This means I'm constantly facing powerful nigh-invincible HQs that only come out of an LR Crusader when it's within spitting distance and bubblewrapped with veterans that slaughter anything in CC. I know your feel too well. I'm legit just forming my lists around SM and SM only. I have no idea how to even fight any other faction at the moment.

So what's the deal with Devilfish in 8th, yay or nay? I see a lot of anons saying they're a solid choice but nobody's lists other than mine actually seem to have them (or more than 1 anyway)

>>53985824
Quad Fusion Commanders may be a solution. Run two, and use them for a suicide run on the Land Raider. The combined points cost is actually less than the Land Raider.

Wait... Can pathfinders shoot both their pulse carbine and Markerlight now?

Hmm.

>>53985954
I brought one and it made a huge difference after I got flanked hard by two 30 man Boyz squads and 2 Skorcha Buggies. I flew it over to block off the flank, sacrificed my Missileside, and absorbed the charge. Next turn I dispensed my Breacher Team and flew it back to form another layer of bubble wrap. It eventually got gunned down in one volley from a Wazdakka Blastbomm. Though my cousin had some slick rolls.

My list was a lot different compared to now.

>>53985954
They're much more expensive than Rhinos and such, but they have a lot of utility. One thing they are great for is cutting down on the number deployed units for that sweet, sweet first turn.

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>>53986102
Has to be a vehicle sadly. They are versatile in that they can have a fall back with their Carbines, though Marker Drones don't suffer a movement penalty, are tougher, and can benefit from a Drone Controller. Pathfinders are still damn good though.

>>53986168
I should add that I run two, each with two five-man fire warrior squads and a Cadre Fireblade in each. They work well as a bait unit, so far the two Devilfish have taken well in excess of 50 dark lance shots that otherwise would have murdered my Hammerheads by turn 2. I'm considering getting another.

>>53986185

Ah okay, that would have single-handedly switched me to playing Pathfinders despite my reluctance to do so.

Nevermind then!

Honestly though, I played a marker commander and now I feel like that playstyle was completely removed.

>>53986039
I'm not lacking fusions, that's not a problem. Got a Ghostkeel, 2 6-man stealthteams, Shadowsun and a Commander. The problem is their character cargo and 3++ cargo

>>53986168
Also you can run a pathfinder squad with special guns, recon drone and fire warrior team in a single fish for a fast setup of decent firebase midfield. One thing I've been pondering is that transports allows for some really rapid redeployment now. You'll have to get to within 3'' of transport to embark, with basic M6 + advance that's minimum of 10'' (6+1+3) and then 12''+d6'' movement for the fish so you can put minimum of 23'' between your unit and the enemy in a single movement phase.

>>53986234
Pathfinders are the best method of mass-marking, but if you want reliable marker hits you can't go past Cadre Fireblades. BS2+ with a pulse rifle and markerlight, still T3 but with 4+ armour and fucking FIVE wounds for a 42pt HQ. They also give your pulse carbines, pistols and rifles an extra inside half range. I'd run fucking millions of them if I could.

>>53986185
Question about the table. If the second effect means the unit gets to fire Seekers at it's own BS and specifies modifiers, if you have 5 counters does that mean seekers also get re-rolls to 1 and +1BS ?

If there's been a 100 year timeskip, shouldn't Shadowsun's stealth suit prototype be the new standard stealth suit?

>>53986326
*extra shot

>>53986234
>Take commander with drone controller
put some MP in there too
>Don't take a drone squad add drones to every other unit that can take them
You now have 4+ Marker lights that are mobile as fuck, count as single units so any multi shot weapons have to target one in particular and waste the rest of its burst.
Make that commander your warlord and your opponent will need to kill all those gun drone before he can finally wound that commander, sniper or not.

>>53986333
Yes.

>>53986335
Railguns should be standard infantry weapons now too

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>>53986335
Quick, send that to GW. We may get a cozy 5++ next update!

>>53986362
Noice. Something I need to keep in mind.

>>53986362
Fire Warriors should also probably be able to take those experimental pathfinder drones with them

>>53986362
>Railguns should be standard infantry weapons now too

That'd be something
Rapid fire Str 6 AP-4 main troop guns
Whew, they'd be pricey otherwise game would be just ridiculous

>>53986335
And nova reactor probably shouldn't be having meltdowns anymore and some catastrophic psyker meltdown should have happened in one of the human settlements in t'au empire. GW probably doesn't just give a shit.

>>53986427
Speaking of psykers, we really need to be able to field a psychic auxiliary. What races are capable of it outside the Nicassar (which would be... probably not doable considering they look like pancake polar bears)

>>53986333
Yessir. If in range of a Commander calling a Kauyon, it would allow you to reroll failed hits on your Seeker missiles at Ballistic skill.

>>53986326
Cadre Fireblades are reliable, but it's only one Markerlight. Drones with a Drone Controller nearby or Pathfinder ls to me for their points are the way to go.
>>53986234
Drones, Pathfinders and Marker Drones in units are the way to go.

>>53986310
Seeker Missiles would sure help, though I think the Y'Vahra or the R'Varna (safer option) could be the way to go.

>>53986457
You could have a Niccasar auxiliary if it was a vehicle instead, like a psychically controlled aircraft with a disc-shaped cockpit

>>53986366

And a second gun mount, the XV-22 has two fusion blasters, and presumably could also be fitted with two burst cannons.

Hell, toughness 4, 2 wounds, hypothetical second gun hardpoint... XV22 are the new XV8.

>>53986463
I probably can't excuse such huge suits but they do look interesting. R'Varna purely for the nova reactor discharge pulse. That'd be hilarious.

>>53986528
That'd make them ridiculously pricy I would think, but oh so nice!

>>53986492
Yeah, like a small ground-based vehicle with a zero-field inside seeing as they evolved to live in space.

>Hamsterball with a wafflebear inside

>>53986535
Or the Nova charged for 4d3 rounds with rerolls doing an average of 14 shots at 60" range that do multiple wounds and lower the save by a good amount. It's only limitation is the Strength of 6

>>53986557

Well the built in shield is weaker than a shield generator, so maybe clip it from 8 points to 5. A second gun is 10 points if a burst cannon. So from 30 to 45 points before support system.

Not bad, I'd say. Your 1-in-3 fusion guy is 67 though.

>>53986700
I guess it depends if you just count them as strict upgrades, or if you handle it as just being extra hardpoints. Like, if instead of a built-in 5+ shield generator, you could just put a 4+ one on the free arm and still have an extra slot for another support system if you wanted

What's the best loadout for crisis suits?
I just found out they can pump out a hilarious number of shots.

>>53986586

Since every faction will probably get atleast one new model
I wonder what they'll do for tau, an auxiliary or something melee?

>>53987120
Honestly I hope it's something of either, but seeing as we already have 4 flavours of Kroot, I doubt we'll get others. CC/tanking we already have them and rapid anti-infantry on wings is covered by the vespid. Tau of course cater to supreme firepower so psychic is really the only logical way to go.

>>53987216

Maybe the reason Forge World didn't give Knarloc stats is because Knarloc models are on the way?

Hmm, Kroot are highly mutable, right?

How hard would it be to make Gryph Hounds look suitably Kroot-y? They're cheaper and plastic.

So I finally got access to the indices for a bit and can talk about muh Tau. I played from 3rd to 6th, no riptides or other extra bigass suits. Can a combined arms/mobile infantry list work anymore? Should I pop off my crisis' weapons?

Said setups are:
3x Plasma/fusion/dodad, probably multitracker this time.

2x Twin missile/flamer
1x Twin flamer/missile
Previoisly two teams, a duo and a deepstriking monat. Deathrains were my jam but they're not 94 points anymore.

I'll be getting a third team from a SC box for a store slow grow league. I was thinking Ion/Burst/ATS, thoughts?

So happy target lock gave me back Broadside Advanced Stabilization.

>>53987776

Chaos Warhounds might work better with a bit of greenstuffing skill to fill in pox-marks and sculpt a beak.

>>53987729
Greater Knarloc rules would be fucking dope if it was actually good. Would totally field a Carnosaur as a stand-in.

>>53987216

Yes, psykers please
Let us do something that phase

But do what? Pskyer guns

>>53988391
The Tau themselves don't have any idea of how exactly psykers work. They think logically and outside guarded secrets by the Ethereal Caste, most don't even believe in any of that shit. It's like if someone sane in real life saw some guy casting a fireball. Your first reaction wouldn't be "OMG WIZARD!", you'd assume it's some trick or a weird device doing it.

It wouldn't make sense for the Tau themselves to employ anything psyker-y, but they have other races who help out. It gives you the perfect handwaive, "an auxiliary did it".

>>53987729
I really hope we get new kroot stuff. I finally want to start up a force with lots of them now that their basic stuff is separate units, but right now theyre lacking options to stand on their own well

>>53988814
Judging by the performance of all the units in the codex, you're pretty much gonna get tabled every game you play. The only thing they do well is die, which they do extremely well.

>>53988844
Yup, losing old cover saves hurts like a bitch while morale is super deadly for the space birbs.

>>53988844
Yeah. The best options I've seen are to try and hunker down with Krootox and a shaper for a slightly mobile gunline, or just rush forward with kroot hounds.

They lack of any sort of heavier armor or guns that can deal with heavier armor.

It would have been nice for Krootox and Shapers to at least get a 5+ for having thicker hide, and for kroot in general to get a bonus to saves while in cover to help represent their stealthy nature

>>53988844

Which makes them effective as screening fodder and... Yeah that is about it.
Just stick in hound mobs or something

>>53988964
Hounds are the most effective and they can honestly actually do something. AP-1 and 2 attacks a piece actually help, coupled with their cheapness. if they even kill 1 single tactical marine, they made almost their MSU cost back.

>>53989014
Actually now that I think about it, would a shaper in range for leadership benefit them being used as murderpacks at full strength? Or still MSU without any backup is best?

>>53989040
I feel like your want MSU even with a Shaper, since you don't gain much from a big blob and if he dies they're screwed.

Still might be handy for the rerolls and taking pot shots with a carbine to trigger their other bonus

>>53989040
Well even with full sized hound pack you won't shell out that many points. They might get some sneaky kills now and then but they die to literally anything and don't have any sneaky ways to get closer like extra movement, bonus advance distance etc. so they got to do it the hard way.

>>53989209
They do have like 12'' move or something?

>>53989209
>>53989137
Yeah these are good points. Shaper's 31 so having him run behind 3 MSU packs would be nice area denial to give your gunlines time to regroup. Two of these setups on either side would be great.

I ran my 3 MSU packs on the gunline's flanks and one behind, placed in a way that blocks all deepstrikes on the majority of my deployment zone. Forced my BT friend to drop his assaulters in front, and the 12" movement had the hounds move up to meet them and chew them up. They're fantastic.

>>53989209
If that's the case use it for bubble wrap or counter assault.

Dude, what if new vespid models with actual unit options?