8e Tau Discussion Part 5: 8th is Out, Ghostkeel is in edition

>>53886624
There has been a discussion regarding 3 Broadsides and a Stormsurge. Some people are saying 3 Broadies are worthier than a Stormsurge. What do you guys think?

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Stopped playing around 6th edition, plan to try this edition - Patrol detachment 1000 pts with a friend, how does it look?

After following the game for years but never really committing, I've started collecting Tau recently.

I don't have a lot yet, and don't intend to buy anymore until I finish assembling and painting what I do have. One interesting thing is that there seems to be two viable builds for Commanders and Crisis suits, depending on the role you need them to fulfill. So I'm going to magnetize everything and try to stay flexible.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Forge World intends to stat it's units. If we're lucky, XV9s might be a viable alternative to the current problem of underwhelming Crisis suits.

Any batreps and suggestions about units? Are drones really good?

I don't understand the whole " detachment" thing
Is patrol the good term for an ethereal 2 squad of 5 breachers and 3 XV25 Stealthsuit ?

Anyone tried a Coldstar yet? I'm loving the movement bonuses but I'm really doubtful of the weapons. Other guns just seem a lot better to me. I can't see the Coldstar being good against anything other than hordes and the occasional elite infantry MSU and S5 isn't really difficult to get to begin with.

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If you don't have more than one commander you are shooting yourself in the foot

>>53895871
Detachments are there to suit the various roles of your models. Say you field an Elites heavy list, like you love Stealthsuits and want to field a ton. The Vanguard Detachment is the one with no mandatory troops, 1 HQ and 3-6 Elites so you could theoretically use that to field 6 maxed out stealthsuit squads and a single HQ to lead them (like Shadowsun who also uses a stealthsuit).

Someone who want to make a speedy scout/pirahna list could use the Outrider detachment instead, which allows for 3-6 Fast Attack. They're just ways to accomodate your list and preferences.

Patrol is good is you're still starting out and don't have much models. Battalion is for general lists who have a tiny bit of everything. brigades will mostly be used by bigass armies and people who have a ton of miniatures to field.

>>53889756
Calm down shas'o'bama.

>>53896426
I would field more but I just think it's ridiculous, fluff-wise. A single Shas'O leads a Hunter Cadre. Now you're gonna see 4+. It's kindof like how the Riptide was supposed to be this super-rare and expensive thing only seen on heavy assaults against huge bastions but you ended up seeing -3- in every bloody game.

I fully understand its effectiveness but it doesn't sit well with me.

With all the talk of how much better commanders are than crisis suits I played around with seeing how many I could cram into a list and still deep strike them all.

Three Battalions, three Commanders each (6 with quad ion, three with quad fusion, two Shield Drones each), three Strike Teams each (Markerlight on every Shas'Ui because why not), and three units of four Shield Drones to round out the last 100 points or so.

As stupid as it looks it's probably a pretty decent list.

>>53896477
who cares about fluff commander/w 4FB is one of the best units in the game currently

>>53896440
Do you know where i can find all the detachment ? I have the index xenos 2 and I can't find it

>>53896477
Anyone running multi-Commander lists is going to be using normal Crisis suits to represent them, so if you want to go by fluff just think of them as elite Crisis soldiers and not actual Commanders. Commander rules are broken and this is the consequence.

>>53896523
Yes, they're in the Rulebook mate. I think under the Advanced Rules section.
>>53896516
I care about fluff. I never fielded a riptide or stormsurge on principle and it didn't suit my theme. I will continue to use my commander, probably with fusions too but probably just 2. I like having some survivability like a shield gen.

>>53896523
They're all in the main rulebook. Everyone uses the same detachments again now.

>>53896558
I understand you. This overuse is just going to make GW smash the Commander upside the head sensor with the nerfbat, so expect that coming.

>>53896563
why not just give him drones or a battlesuit squad instead. Remember characters can't be shot unless they are the closest model so you can just pile drones and suits around him

>>53896558
>>53896516
We flyrants now.

>>53896477
>>53896558

Honestly, this is what I do. I have one cool Commander model (that is all fucked up, shout outs to Finecast), so my Commanders are just Crisis Suit models.

>>53896601
I could but I'm afraid I don't have enough drones. I'm testing out a list next saturday. Used 7 marker drones back in 7th but now that markerlights aren't as must-have, pathfinders are great and Strike Team Shas'uis are effective with them, I might downsize the marker drones. Fielding only 4 would give me a good 7 extra I could juggle around.

Gun drones seem pretty fucking dope now, 4 shots a piece, goddamn!

>>53896644
yeah the 4 shots is nice i gave my shas'vre a drone controller 24 bs4+ shots is super good

>>53896644
Wish Sniper drones were good, but just having extra range and ability to target characters, they feel fucking useless. No mortal wounds, no AP or anything..

>>53896644
You could consider dropping one of your Commander guns for a Drone Controller, then fielding Gun Drones as shooty bubble wrap for him. Since youre probably gonna take Fusion Blasters or Plasma Rifles, having more short range dakka to supplement it really helps.

>>53896635
The new Crisis kit is really cool, too, and honestly the older Commander kits weren't much different than normal Crisis guys anyway. The only issue is having enough guns to actually cram four guns on every guy - which, even on the larger Commander model looks hilarious - but there's third party sellers that make pretty good Tau gun bits for that.
>>53896644
>>53896693
Yeah gun drones are surprisingly good, they're basically just burst cannons now. It's a little weird.

>>53896693
Yeah might end up doing that. The hole underneath the drone top is perfect for a small magnet, so I think I'll just make tons of variations and switch them out as needed.

Commander with 2 Fusion Blasters, Drone Controller and maybe something like a velocity tracker to hunt flyers down or just an extra flamer with 6 gun drones would be baller.

>>53896716
Ahh, that's a non issue for me. I have a fucking ton of spate gun bits. The issue is having enough magnets. Also the new Shas'o model that came out with the 7th codex is pretty sweet. It's a shame that the finecast one is better except for the fact that it's finecast.

>>53896716
Might you gimme a lead on those third party sellers?

>>53896754
found http://www.reddogminis.com/crisis-suit-compatible.html last night, their Ions are p. decent but not sure how well they'd work shoulder mounted

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rate

>>53896791
between being characters and being able to pass off wounds to drones those commanders aren't dying until you're tabled, I like it

the drone hive must protect their queen(s)

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>>53896771
>Dual-barreled gatling gun like Heavyarms Custom
>Fatass missile launchers like in Armored Core
>mfw

Y'know, getting pretty tired of people calling me a weeb for playing Tau but now I'm thinking you know what? Fuck it. I like mecha anime and vidya, might as well just go full fucking fanboy and bask in the salt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaLsg3M7jOs

>>53896791
At least put 3×fusion on the commanders, and drop the hanger-on drones since they are free killpoints.

wait, drones are scoring units now too aren't they? drone spam actually seems... kind of viable in a weird way. S5 is wounding even LRs and Knights on 5s, so enough spam is gonna bring down anything

More commanders than troops
Drones everywhere
Firewarriors

Neat new meta

I realised today that drobes can easily tarpit the shit out of knight, since the knights kan walk over them due to drones lacking the infantry keyword.

And with fly you can easily surround them, and knights are pretty shit at murdering hordes of drones in CC.

>>53896899
>>53896899
Phone spelling fucking me up...

Knights cant walk over drones

>>53896899
>>53896921
yeah drones and battlesuits lacking infantry messes up a lot of things, it's great. vindicare snipers can't really do shit to commanders because they're not actually infantry as if you'd every take vindicare over ratlings anyway

4 days till Tautron rules boys

>>53896957
Man I miss being able to ally a Vindicare in my Tau army. I used to run a Kroot Headhunter counts-as, follows my Cadre about picking off dudes in return for getting to eat the corpses of the ones that showed the most skill. On a quest to become the bestest.

>>53897029
Aux detachment should allow you add one I would think. Thinking of using my Culexus with my Tau, for obvious reasons.

>>53897154
pretty sure a battleforged army has to share at least one faction keyword across every detachment for matched play, not just within each detachment

>>53897154
Sadly no. >>53897185 is right. in Matched play, your entire army must share at least 1 faction keyword.

You can still just use open or narrative play and adopt some matched play rules and use points values of course but from the looks of it, everyone but newbies are going to focus on matched entirely.

>>53897185
Dont have access to my copy of the detachment, but isnt the special thing about the aux support detachment that it can contain a single unit from another faction at the price of -1 CP?

>>53897219
Nope. I think that's only for just in case you have like.. 7 elites and only 1 HQ, so you can take the vanguard and add an extra elite slot.

>>53897219
I had to check, but the broader faction rules are earlier on in the matched play section on page 214. "All of the units in a match play army, with the exception of those that are Unaligned, must have at least one Faction keyword in common (e.g., Imperium or Chaos), even though they may be in different detachments."

The Auxiliary Support Detachment just exists for people that need to cram in one more unit than their other detachments have slots for and don't mind losing a CP. Considering that HQs are great in a lot of armies (not just Tau) and that unlocking more detachments for extra CPs is great it's not a very good option... but it exists.

>>53897242
Cheers, guess I will just add 10 more drones or so then.

Not sure if I should go with 8 or 12 drone units or something inbetween. With an ethereal 12 drone units are pretty resilent aggaibst battleshock but without it can get rough.

Also considering to run a 1:2 ratio of shield: gun drone aka 4 shield 8 gun etc. Might be nice for some AP shooting.

>>53897300
I would think it's a very situational detachment choice honestly. They should just make it so it allows you to ally in a different faction unit at -1CP each and doing so loses you battleforged status and thus a further 3CP.

Seeing how precious and limited CP will be, sheisters looking to cheese shit wouldn't risk losing a minimum 4 CP lightly.

>>53897342
I had a similar idea... this would be nice. Wanted to sprinkle some (hacked) canopteks in my army

>>53897342
No more Come The Apocalypse allies was one of the things the ITC people lobbied for with the new rules, so nah. It's gone, and for good reason. CtA/Counts-As was stupid.

Y'know what would be cooler? Tau actually have cool Kroot/Auxiliary allies like the 'nids have with Genestealer cults.

>>53897398
Tau and Imperium were Desperate Allies at worst though. I think a measure of unlikely alliying could come back provided the combos weren't retarded. I mean now thanks to keywords, you're far less likely to be able to do stupid combos. They'll only be able to buff their own and at a huge CP penalty. Considering a brigade gets you 9, you could end up with 0 CP.

>>53897467
I can see where you're coming from, especially since Gue'vesa auxiliaries used to be a thing, but I'd rather they had actual rules and models rather than using weird ally rules and counts-as conversions.

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>>53886624
How we lookin' here? What am I missing? I've got no hammerheads, and I'm waiting for my remoras and Shas'ORLY to get rules. Any wargear worth putting on the stealth suits?

>>53897836
Strike teams don't have to be 6 man if you don't want them to be; the sgt is a free replacement/upgrade to a model.

Are you really gonna planning on moving your Broadsides? Might be better to do drone controller on the railside so they can both bring missile drones, and then take an ATS on the missileside for better AP.

>>53898130
The biggest challenge to my broadsides in 7th were getting doubled out by S8, which is no longer an issue, and targets staying out of LOS. I figure with Target Lock that's not a problem.

I took a 6th fire warrior because I have the models and I don't know where else to put those 24 points. 62 points, really. Kroot? They really don't seem that good still.

I know very few people own them but has anyone tried the tidewall drone port? You can load it up with 4 marker drones and put fireblade cadre on top for a source of 2+ markerlights. Even better you can have cadre fire first so your drones are hitting on 2+ rerollable. Because The drones in the tidewall turn 1 they are much harder to alphastrike. You could also put a pathfinder team with heavy weapons and darkstrider for extra markerlights.

>>53898197
I thought of trying to use a shaper + dogs as a screen, but drones seem better at that, too. not really sure what the point of kroot is at all when drones are better than most of the units in their army lists.

speaking of which... I'm not even sure it's worth taking stealth suits when gun drones are just burst cannons that fly. like, sure, they have the stealth field thing and more wounds, but drones are so dirt cheap that as long as you get a drone controller somewhere nearby they do the job better.

>>53898390
Several 1-creature units of Riders are pretty good at adding more firepower to your Fire Warrior wall.

>>53887203

well, try mathhammering

>>53898390
I think the biggest reason to take stealth suits is actually as a cheap drone controller. 90 points is about as low as you can get while still slapping it on something mobile. A commander could, but only stays cheap if you take no guns on him.

>>53898663
yeah, I was thinking that too. commanders with three guns and a controller may cost more, but those three guns are BS2+ and the drones serve as his bodyguard, so I think it still synergizes better

I haven't seen a single list be posted where people are taking the turret with the Fire Warriors. Is it just that bad? Haven't played in years and just now getting back in on 8th edition hype (plus employee discount making it easier), and trying to gauge what's good.

>>53898952
It's good if you ignore the fact that it costs as much as 5 or 5.5 Fire Warriors, and can't be moved once set up.

Guesses on the Heavy Railgun?
It has got to be among the most powerful single shot weapons in the games entirety
Str 16 maybe?

>>53898952
IIRC in 7th you could leave it behind and keep moving, in 8th it's destroyed.

Ghostkeels look really fun to build

>>53898998
>>53901377
How does it work if you're just putting Fire Warriors in a Shieldline? RAW it sounds like it just deploys outside the fortification and then can't be targeted.

So, if you actually commit to the firing line it might be good. It's still cheaper than a missile pod for a BS4+ missile pod, and it can shoot at whatever it wants to.

Then again, one of the perks of the Shieldline is that it's basically a slow, open-topped transport (which is awesome) and not being able to move the turret is a bit of a killer.

>>53902042
Honestly I think it's one of the best models in the entire GW 40k range, not just for Tau. It's so cool and it has the flip up cockpit with the pilot and everything. I love it.

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I know I've posted this is the 40kg thread before but I'd like some final feedback on this list before I actually take it for a spin.
markers hand with drone controller commander who sits around the strike team and broadside to use Kauyon when needed to buff them. Fusion commander strikes in with homing beacon with Farsight staying up to counter charge and use mont'ka if needed. thing is my plan is to have the stealth teams and the ghostkeel moving back shooting with the two commanders ready for manta strikes while the rest of the army moves up so that they can meet and set up a forward moving gunline for some combined overwatch.

>>53903048
>Honestly I think it's one of the best models in the entire GW 40k range, not just for Tau. It's so cool and it has the flip up cockpit with the pilot and everything. I love it.

Yup, I wanna build one and strike a good pose with it.

>>53903048
Is there any reason you can't deploy the missile pod ON the shieldline? Even in the Index it shows it sitting on the shieldline. And if you can, couldn't it move with the shieldline?

>>53903311
>>53903048
I got a Ghostkeel unassembled myself but I need to do a few conversions. Some for looks, some for transport. Hope I still enjoy myself with it, it's probably the best looking battlesuit.

>>53903048
RAW you wouldn't be able to deploy it at all because units in transports are not on the battlefield.

Don't have access to any of the indexes and barely looking into 8th out of curiosity, what has changed for us since 7th?

>>53903698
Balance shakeup
Things up in the air, riptides nerfed, some new neat mechanics

>>53903698
the indexes are all on 40kg in the mega
changes:
good:
>stealthsuits are better
>fire warriors are better and cheaper
>crisis commanders and coldstars are better and cheaper (depends on loadout)
>ghostkeel better
>broadside is now more like a dreadnought than a crisis suit and literally has double the dakka and HRR are good
>GW tau flyers are now devent and sunshark is especially good
>stormsurge is good
>pathfinders are better (especially special weapons)
>gun drones are now our most efficient unit
>XV109 looks pretty rapey
>Longstrike now a HQ and even better than 7th
>Hammerhead back to rapey especially since longstrike gives nearby tau hammerheads +1BS
>All drones better and don't cause morale problems
>shield drones really value meatshields
bad:
>rip riptides, unusable, too expensive and too shit
>crisis suits are not as good as crisis commanders are now minimum squad size three
>sniper drones still meh, though may be necessary unfortunately due to character rules
>Seeker missiles unusable
>Sky rays unusable because of previous
>Destroyer missiles less shit than seekers but still bad
>Piranhas meh
>Rip drone controller, provides only +1BS and afaik isn't stackable, though still usable since it affects all drones in 6"
>Homing beacons not as good as before, but with new manta strike rules will be necessary for deep striking melta suits/commanders

Sidegrades:
Markerlights changed completely, will need testing for verdict, now usable by any tau unit (not expended on use) but buffs are a bit weaker and require 5 hits for +1BS

>>53903698
Commanders are the new Flyrants
Fire Warrior and Drone spam is great again
Fish of Fury seems pretty viable with how good transports with Fly are
Riptides got nerfed into the ground
Ghostkeels are still great, possibly the new Riptide
Longstrike and Hammerheads both excellent

The FW book hasn't come out yet but they showed the rules for the zoomytide and it looked pretty okay. I'm homing the rest is just as good.

>>53903784
Explain how Homing Beacons make Manta Strike better? Unless I'm missing something they do literally nothing. Manta Strike lets you place anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" away from an enemy. Homing Beacons are destroyed if an enemy moves within 9". What's the point...? It's not like anything scatters, so all they do is say "I'M GOING HERE" instead of just... going anywhere.

>>53903774
>>53903784
>>53903795
Sounds like it's RIP to my Farsight army then

>>53903824
Not at all. Just use Crisis suit models as Commanders. Crisis Suits themselves aren't bad either, it's just that Commanders are better.

It really only hurts you if you were a Riptide Wing spammer, in which case fuck you, you deserved it.

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Hey guys, what do you think of this list? It's partly based off of what models I own, but also kind of specialised to fight MEQs, since my friend that I play most of the time pretty much brings different varieties of marine, whatever he's playing.

>>53903851
Seems pretty okay. It might be worth breaking the Broadsides into two different units so that they're both Shas'vre though.

>>53903881
True; though since their primary concept is to shoot, Id like to have the shield drones both have to die before the Broadsides can be shot at, but there's all sorts of redundancy issues in either case.

>>53903820
I initially thought so too, but then I realized you can put the homing beacon within that 9". The issue is its destroyed if at the END of your movement phase, you have an enemy within. So you start by putting it down, immediately calling in a deepstrike with it and it destroys itself.

With the homing beacon, you can put down your units 2" away if you want to, then it's shooting time! no-pain meltarange for tons of fusion guns, in range for a fuckload of flamers!

>>53903820
I'm the anon you're replying to and I thought the same thing when it was leaked
Ok so here is hypothetical:
Stealth team is 12" from a land raider, tey drop a homing beacon next to them which is 11" from the land raider. Using manta strike you deep strike a commander with 4 meltas within 8" of the land raider (which you can't normally) and then blast that land raider with 4 melta shots.
For 20 points it's situational, but I'm running farsight and a 4 fusion commander in my 1500 list so i'll get 20 points of value out of it
>>53903824
Farsight himself is pretty good and is even rapey-er against orks by giving twin linked to all models within 6" if they're shooting orks
also Crisis commanders are 10/10 and crisis teams with 3 flamers are great against the horde spam this edition will be filled with
>>53903851
>commander: swap flamer for extra plas
>strike team: 4 teams of 5 is better for morale, DS8 turret is kind of bad, put marker drone on commander or fireblade
>Breacher: idk much about them
>Rail rifle pathfinder team: why a recon drone on them?
>Normal pathfinder team: 2 squads of 5 better, drone can buff both since it's an AOE buff iirc
>2 teams of one broadside with 1 drone each better, make them both shas'vre
>Stealth team: markerlight + target lock on shasv're with a multi-tracker can give you some forward harassment, shas'ui need a target lock more than anything else
>Ghostkeel: Burst cannons better than fusion if running ion raker, support systems perfect

>>53903914
Am the list guy, will try to respond to each point.

>Flamer vs Plasma: was a points thing, but I suppose many of your suggestions could take care of that.
>Strike teams: A good suggestion
>Breachers: I have them and just like them vs marines out of a Devilfish
> Recon Drone of Railfinders: I like the cover denial on Ap -4 guns.
>Normal Pathfinders: it's actually a 9-man squad plus drone; I own exactly 14 pathfinders, so 5 (minimum) go in railfinders, the rest in regulars.
>I made a point above about redundancy and broadsides, but will take into consideration
>I dislike how firing a markerlight prevents you from firing anything else, but I have considered it as well.
>A fine idea, will strongly consider it.

>>53904005
ah, I didn't know firing a markerlight stopped all other weapons, thanks for bringing that to my attention
I didn't see that they were 9 pathfinders in the squad, oops
Does the recon drone confer ignores cover now? Sorry I don't own any of pathfinder drones
as for the broadsides, you can still deploy them as if they were one squad, and each shield drone can take a shot for either broadside, the only difference to having them in one unit is if they are charged, only one is died in melee and you are immune to battleshock, otherwise it's almost identical
If you want fusion in your list, your best option is a 4 fusion commander over a full fusion keel, and in that case a homing beacon on the stealth team may be helpful as well
breachers look good for a counter charge unit
one final suggestion is that farsight would be much better than your current commander if you do own him since he can also tie up and beat marines in melee

So is the go to build for Commanders 4 Fusion Blasters now that you can fire all weapons?

>>53904158
until the xv84 commander is released it seems so

>>53904158
Seems so. But I dunno about not taking any support systems. It seems like a bit of a suicide unit considering you'll be the closest unit for sure.

>>53904065
> yeah its in the markerlight section in Xenos 2, not the heavy weapon type or anything like that
>good point on the drones and broadsides. I'm convinced.
>Don't own farsight, and I just put a bunch of work into a commander so I want to field him. not crunchy reasoning, I know.

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What will the markerlight meta be?

-Standard (specialised units)
-Cascade (markerlights buff other markerlights)
-Commensal (markerlights everywhere)

>>53904292
well markerlight drones and pathfinders are both viable (drone controller really helps marker drones).
markerlights on fire warrior shas'ui's are 3 points now and are probably good value.
I'm thinking that cascade will be the new meta since MSU and cheap markerlights on fire warriors especially with them being cumulative not expendable like 7th.
>>53904225
>put work into a model
>running it even if it's not 100% as crunchy as something else
I respect that, do you have a pic of him?

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>>53904333
He's the one in the middle.

>>53904525
I'm jealous of your painting skill anon, wish I could paint like that

>>53904561
It's just lots of practise and being taught little tricks. If you keep pushing yourself; you'll get there.

>>53896558
Old codices actually had two ranks of commander, shas'o who is the higher ranking one and shas'el who is equivalent to a lieutenant. So you could fluffwise have a shas'o and his lieutenants.

>>>/wsg/1745735

What's a good place to get cyclic ion blaster bits?

>>53887203
In terms of offensive output it seems like the Broadsides would win out, but let's not discount the defensive value of the Stormsurge.
20 W, T7, and a massive zone of area denial with EWO.

>>53903398
because the turret isn't Infantry...

>>53895630
Every unit is good at something and has its own niche

>>53905224
Chinaman, at least Z got the CIB as a seperate item you can order.

>>53896339
Coldstar is one of the best units in 8th. I can't imagine playing without one.

Give him an ATS to turn his burst cannon into AP1 and his missiles AP2. Fly around the map 20-40" every turn picking off infantry and hitting exposed characters. Always land in cover to get a consistent 2+ save.

He can start in the middle of your army and activate Kauyon or Montka then fly off and do his own thing.

Combo him with a Sunshark Bomber. The plane and interceptor drones can keep up with the commander, and the drones act as ablative wounds against heavy weapons.

Position them so the plane is the nearest target and then your commander CANT be shot. The plane is also huge and can't be charged by ground units, so you can deny charges on your commander by positioning correctly.

Coldstar is 10/10

>>53896644
>but now that markerlights aren't as must-have
Depending on your playstyle, they are more important than ever

>>53903784
Riptides are not unusable, stop this meme.

They are mobile, have great defenses, and good enough damage that your enemy can't ignore them. In addition to having the best defenses a Tau army can offer, they have the Battlesuit keyword so drones can soak heavy weapon hits for them.

They're not overpowered any more, but that doesn't make them bad

>>53903784
>Seeker missiles unusable
Well that's just wrong

>>53904158
If you want him to be good at tank/term hunting, yes. It's shit awful at killing infantry.

CIB and Missile Pods are good all-around offensive tools.

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What are we expecting/hoping for the forgeworld tau model rules? Because I love the forgeworld suit designs and hate the GW one so I hope they're good rule wise

>>53905573
you can get 2 valks for the price of a riptide, they aren't that good value and both are T7 W14

>>53905619
From the 109 datasheet, I belive they'll be awesome.

I'm waiting mostly for Tetras, barracudas, Remoras, Hammerhead variants and R'alai

>>53905619
That particular suit, at least in its last incarnation, was just an alternative model for crisis suits. The other two were new signature system choices that gave the suit some extra wargear (markerlight and free target lock for one and SMS for the other).

>>53905573
A Riptide with HBC + 2 SMS comes out at 304.
A Stormsurge with PBC, CRS, 2 SMS, 2 Flamers and 4 Destroyer missiles comes out at 382. Which one you'd rather have?

A Riptide with IA (nowadays less useful than the HBC) is even closer to the Stormsurge in points.

>>53905649
Do valks have a 3++?

Do they have drones for ablative wounds?

Do they have stim injectors and sense of stone for 2 6+ ignores for each wound taken?

>>53905677
>the only thing that matters is damage output in a shooting range scenario
Are you really this stupid?

>>53905670
I know, thats what I meant, I love the look of that one compared to the GW crisis suits.
The weapons as part of the arms looks so much better than side mounted I reckon

>>53905720
No, I'm not. The only things Riptides have over Stormsurge are 3++ (at the cost of a wound) and movement. But its firepower is too flimsy for its price.

But I rather kill the enemy than count on a glorified taunt unit that eats a lot of points

>>53905720
>3++
I mean I too enjoy suffering a mortal wound per turn, drones are extra cost, stirm injectors cost extra to be honest, I'd rather have 2 valks over a riptide, not to mention that stormsurges are almost always better than a riptide for similar points or slightly more. Also the XV109 is a far superior option to the riptide already and I'm converting my riptide to an XV109 as we speak
>>53905670
can't wait for the XV84
>>53905744
I agree

>>53905744
>The only things Riptides have over Stormsurge are 3++ (at the cost of a wound) and movement.
No, there's much more to it than that.

Riptide is a BATTLESUIT which means that
a. Drones can soak wounds
b. Benefit from Ethereals
c. No weakness to abilities that effect VEHICLE

Riptide has way higher movement (literally double the Stormsurge) and is a Flying unit.

It has high mobility (for Tau) and does enough damage that your enemy can't just ignore it. But how are they going to destroy it when small fire won't do much good against T7 and heavy weapons are absorbed by nearby drones?

High defenses and high mobility coupled with good damage make the Riptide a great aggressive unit. If all you intend to do with the Riptide is shoot at the enemy from behind a gunline then it's not the right unit for your army.

It used to be the best unit in the game and now that it's not the knee-jerk reaction is to declare it is worthless. You've already decided that the Riptide is bad without even trying to use it. Open your mind.

>>53905619
I really want to see how good Tetras are. They were Heavy 2 TL before, so hopefully they'll be Heavy 4 in 8th. That said, markerlights really aren't that big of a deal anymore and if you're taking a Commander-focused list like I plan to you really only need single hits for the re-rolling 1s.

Missile Hammerheads might be really good if they get the same amount of shot increase that the Broadside got. It would basically be a Broadside in tank form if you give it the SMS upgrade with a Velocity Tracker to boot. Seems pretty good?

Hazard Suits were T5 before, right? So... with the new toughness increases that would jack them up all the way to T6, maybe 6 wounds? Sounds pretty badass, honestly. We'll have to see, though, they're probably going to be very expensive.

>>53905863
I've watched many 8th BRs. In any using the Riptide, they didn't perform well enough to justify its points.

I don't think it's worthless, but there are more cost-effective units.
It's same thing regarding a quad fusion commander and 2 fusion piranhas: both cost the same, but a Commander is just so more useful that most people won't use the 2 fusion piranhas in its place.

Riptide needed a nerf? Yes.
But it was too nerfed. A point reduction in either base platform or its guns would be enough to put it back as a good choice.

So, question: the Commander Master of War ability phrasing seems a little weird for multiple Commanders. Is the ability once per game across all of your Commanders, or do they each get to use it once per game? If the latter is true it seems very powerful for being able to blitz around with Mont'ka spam.

>>53905935
Most people I've seen discussing this believe it's the former, or the additional use of Mont'ka/Kauyon by Farsight/Shadowsun would make no sense

>>53905930
>Comparing Pirahnas and Commanders

Full retard

>>53905921
damn, forgot about the XV9. yeah, I'm expecting good things from them. They were a bit overcosted before - but look so cool

>>53905935
It is perfectly clear

>once per battle
>a single commander

Why are 40k players so bad at reading

40kg is full of people who can't understand the basic rules

>>53905957
My bad, I was reading the rule from battlescribe and forgot the rulebook is phrased differently. The battlescribe guys forgot to put the word "single" in there so the meaning becomes vague, but in the index it is perfectly clear.

Basically I'm stupid and did the cardinal sin of trusting battlescribe to be accurate.

>>53906058
BS is a very useful tool, but you always have to double check with the codex

Luckily, we'll get the online GW list building tool this year and BS will be a thing from the past

Anyone done the math on Quadmander with CIB vs Trip...mander with CIB+ATS? Honestly, my money is on the Quadmander being better total firepower but worse wound/points, but I haven't seen a comparison yet and the spreadsheet in the 40kg thread doesn't have anything for CIBs oddly.

The burst cannon commander is surprisingly good as well, but considering that Vespid (VESPID!) are about the same wound/point I think I might actually take some of them instead of as many Commanders as I was thinking of.

>>53906416
I dont see a reason to bring a commander with 3+ burst cannons. Tau have so much S5 shooting available already between gun drones and fire warriors.

>>53906446
Yeah, true. It's decent efficiency versus infantry compared to other options but plain ol' Fire Warriors are still better, and that's without buffing them with Cadre Fireblades. Keeping melee units out of your infantry line is going to be where a lot of the tactics in Tau games comes in I think, so drones screens seem way more useful than some people have been giving them credit for... either that or putting them in Shieldlines to make them very resilient to fire in general.

Triple Flamer Crisis Suits though... those I can see getting some use, even if only to deter charges against nearby units. 9D6 S4 shots is enough to make most units say nope.

>>53906531
Triple flamer is probably overkill. An enemy just needs to throw a tank at you first or make one lucky >8" charge and your flamers do no damage.

Also makes them very bad for FTGG overwatch since it's hard to be in 8" range of an enemy.

Flamers aren't bad but I would throw one or two CIB or missile pod on each crisis suit

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Another take on Commander+Drone spam, this time with some (probably too many) marker drones

>>53906823
Dont forget that the 2 drones attached to a commander are a separate unit and count for kill points

>>53906849
Oh shit, I hadn't even though of kill points. Yeah, that's actually an issue. Too many drones and you basically can't win unless you table them...

>>53906893
This is the big problem with spamming Drones. They need to be protected by your other units, not the other way around.

>>53886624
Wait, is topic for real? Is best looking suit now best suit?

>>53906999
Eh, I rather the looks of the XV9

>>53906999
Commanders and Coldstars are best

>>53907025
>1800

Why the fuck do you people keep making lists for such arbitrary point values

Standard game sizes are 1000, 2000, and 3000

Why did you include the Firesight Marksman?

>>53888277
i love it, remind me of my old 4th edition tau army
it's probably good, but i think you lack troops
maybe drop one hammerhead for more fire warriors ?

>>53907126
How is 1800 any more arbitrary than multiples of 1000? They both are just made up values that people decide to play on.

>>53906999
Yeah, best units seem to be Drones, Commanders, Ghostkeels and Fire Warriors, in that order. Crisis Suits are still good, but Commanders are generally more efficient due to BS2+. Fire Warrior scaling is also such that large units of them, supported by a Fireblade, end up being even better. That said, as long as they have a Drone Controller Gun Drones are /ridiculously/ efficient at killing any infantry targets and (comically) also most super-heavies.

One thing to keep in mind is that the new strength chart in general favors Tau a lot. Nothing in the game outside full-size FW titans is tougher than T9, and that means the massive amount of S5 spam is wounding even the toughest enemies in the game on a 5+. Between the 1/3 chance to wound even a Knight or Land Raider and the raw volume of fire you can get at S5 that's pretty scary.

Quad Fusion Commanders are hands down the best anti-vehicle/monster unit available to Tau, Railguns don't even come close. It's a little scary to have to run up to at least 18" to fire, but with the ability to disengage and shoot again it may not be all that bad.

>>53907149
Anon, 1000, 2000 and 3000 are the suggested example point values in the book and the values almost every event is going to use (particularly 2000).

>>53907149
Because the rule book states the standard game sizes are 1000, 2000, and 3000 and gives recommendations for detachments and board sizes for each

>>53907184
Those are recommendations for tourneys; tjhey aren't set rules nor they are for casual games

>>53907182
>best units seem to be Drones,
Stop this meme

Drones are cost effective S5 damage output but also they also give your opponent tons of free kill points.

You can try bringing them in big squads but Ld6 with no bonding knife means you will take a lot of losses to morale checks.

The short range of pulse carbines makes it difficult to table opponents before they can reach your drones and destroy you.

They can only shoot the closest unit so your enemy can abuse that by putting heavy tanks on their frontline.

Drones are good but you can't beat a competent opponent with drone spam.

Can the ethereal on hover drone be assembled without the hover drone? I assume that it can but never underestimate the jewery of GW.

>>53907144
Thanks, I was mostly focused on what I have painted and ready to put on table
Also, what is the best number of FW in troops - 10 or 12? Is it worthwhile to take Drones with Fire warriors?

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>>53907230
Looking at the sprue I'd say so. Judge for yourself, but I think you could even get away with magnetizing his feet if you use small enough magnets.

I take it you're looking at the Start Collecting box? It seems super, super good now with how many lists are going to want to use Crisis/Commander and Fire Warriors at once.

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>>53896445
>>53889756

>>53907489
I'm looking at the empire coalition command. The only ethereal I have is metallic from 4th edition with pair of CCWs that are now equalizers that you have to pay a point. A POINT!. So i'd get the honor blade and coldstar in one go.

>>53907594
Coalition Command isn't worthwhile since you get an ethereal in the Start Collecting. You will probably get at least 1 of the SC boxes as a Tau player because it costs barely more than the price of the 3 crisis suits inside.

>>53907681
Yeah I have like 4-5k of tau already. But those HQ's I don't have.

>>53907712
Ah in that case it seems like a good deal for you

Most people are not in your situation

How is the Hammerhead Railgun any good? It's only got one shot and it seems pretty unreliable in terms of damage. Like it has a high cap but the chance of getting that kind of damage seems pretty low.

>>53907930
Its good against single targets

You can use command points to reroll the damage

It is not an expensive weapon

>>53907182
Sell me on firewarriors, what makes them good? They seem really situational, needing your board to have good cover for them to stand a chance at surviving.

>>53905863
I had a game vs the riptide and it felt decently strong. The biggest issue I had with it was there was never a good opportunity for me to attack it.

My opponent shoved two units of crisis suits with drones down my throat that I had to deal with first. They are so annoying as you have to deal with the drones before you can use your heavy guns on the suits. Manta strike is so much more powerful that deep strike I think a lot of people are underestimating it.

So then I had to choose to fight his riptide or his broadsides. I was playing harlequins and charging the riptide seemed like a losing endeavor. I could charge, get overwatched to high hell, and then do a few wounds, but he can then fall back and shoot me.

Falling back is another huge buff to the tau. Before if you caught tau in close combat with just about any unit, you would eventually kill them or just hold them so long they were ineffective. No more losing combat because they got a single wound on you and you couldn't wound them back. No more getting killing in a sweeping advance because you were only i2. Riptide does this the best. Very few things will even damage him with his T6 sv2+/5++ save. You leave yourself extremely exposed trying to melee fight a riptide as the next turn he is flying off and pumping your face full of compressed air.

>>53908060
They're cost efficient S5 shooting. Few things do as good wounds/points as they do against infantry. Keeping them alive is an issue, but cover against shooting and supporting fire against charges (plus their much longer than average range) go a long way.

Fire Warriors in transports seem very good now as well, mostly because the Devilfish has Fly. You can just Fish of Fury and keep disengaging the Devilfish out of combat wherever they need to go.

The big thing is that you have to be aggressive with your suits in order to keep your Fire Warriors alive. If they have enough aggressive units Manta Striking in front of them they won't have time to get to your backline, and pinning down battlesuits is super hard now because they basically all have hit-and-run from the new Fly keyword.

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Something people are getting wrong frequently is how the drone ability Saviour Protocols functions.

Because it says "wound" and not "unsaved wound" this ability happens after the number of wounding hits has been determined, but BEFORE save and damage rolls are taken.

Example:
Standard attacking goes like this:

Enemy declares they are using X weapon
Roll to Hit
Roll to Wound
Defending player allocates the wounds (one at a time) to the target unit
Roll save
Roll damage (if applicable)
Roll to ignore damage (if applicable)

Drones come in when the defending player is allocating the wounds, not AFTER the damage has been determined.

It means you can hide drones behind a wall or large enough suit and have them take heavy weapon shots. For units that your enemy wants to hit with big guns like a Riptide or Commander, Drones are an amazing survival tool.

>>53907987
Being reliant on command points for decent damage doesn't seem all too good given it deals as much damage as a lascannon most of the time and those can be sponson mounts while the railgun is stuck as the big gun.
Looks like it averages out to 3.5 damage a turn which given it's cost doesn't seem very worth it.

>>53908200
There honestly isn't much for Tau to spend command points on except for rerolling saves during enemy turns and rerolling damage during our turn.

We don't care about interrupting combat priority, and our morale phase is rarely worth using 2 CP on.

>>53908200
You use pretty much all of your command points on rerolling saves and damage, and the extra mortal wounds on a 6 roll can make a huge difference. I think you want to run Longstrike + 2-3 more if you're going to use them, though.

That said... Quad Fusion Commanders math out to be way, way the hell better with the Caveat that you have to be 9-18" away and will probably lose some quickly to return fire and counter-charging. I like Longstrike a lot but Quad Fusion is broke as fuck.

Come on boys
Lets speculate on the Heavy Rails stats

>>53908535
Range: enough
Heavy too few shots
S: good
AP: even better
D: dissapointing with a chance of mortal wounds.

>>53908683
Downer
Lets go with Str 16 AP -5
Single shot
Damage... need to think

>>53908535
Way more curious what the XV-9 and R'Varna are going to do. I'm guessing the R'Varna is going to cost almost as much as a Stormsurge, and without Fly usefulness becomes really questionable if its firepower isn't devastating. Also curious how good the Remora drones are gonna be.

so are the codexes going to make major stat changes or should we expect stats to be similar?

>>53908905
I hope they make crisis suits or bodyguards into bs3+ and add something to sniper drones like -2ap or something on a to wound of 6 if mortal wounds are too good for them.

>>53908905
In age of sigmar the army special army books add unique spell lines, unique artifacts, and formations. The general stats of a unit are unchanged, the idea being that you can change point value to make something more of less useful.

>>53908884
>cost as much as a stormsurge

that would be a pity, as its guns won't be as good as they are now

>>53908905
probably just going to be relics/artifacts/signature systems, and special rules for various different septs/chapters/regiments etc.

>>53908535
3 shots
S20
If it wounds it does 6 mortal wounds

>>53908884

Horde mulcher supreme

>>53909873

Eh, dunno if that is crazy or not
Guess 18 mortals would be like the equivalent of 54 damage

So...what do you think the t'au stratagems will be? My take:
>battlesuit thing, probably additional movement and/or shooting or JSJ. Having it gated to CP makes it less annoying for opponents as it's on a limited resources
>Infantry unit can target characters for this shooting phase
>missile strike from a close orbit support manta
>reinforce drone units from a close air support tigershark
>choose one ethereal, it's invocation of elements affects whole board instead of 6'' for this turn.

>>53910861
Pay 1 CP to move a Battlesuit 2d6 in the charge phase
Pay 2 CP to give a unit +1 BS this phase
Pay 1 CP to fire a free seeker missile from orbit
Pay 3 CP to deploy a stealth field from your a ghostkeel or unit of stealth suits, giving enemies -1 to hit against all other units within 6" in the shooting phase
Pay 2 CP during the movement phase to put a unit of Crisis Suits or a Commander back into the Manta. It can be deployed with Manta Strike at the end of the turn.

>>53911221
Maybe an additional master of war from a commander?

>>53911299
That would make the special commanders a lot worse

>>53910861
2CP Can fire after falling back

>>53911489
>having 3 masters of war
>bad
Eh.

>>53911504
Every unit in the army can already do this

>>53911515
I never said it would be bad, just that it would make the special commanders worse

>>53911546
Really? I thought only fly keyword let you do that.

>>53911854
Tau are either Flying or Infantry

Infantry within 6" of Darkstrider can fall back and retreat

>>53911854
Correct. Darkstrider can also grant this to an infantry unit. Some form of overwatch shenanigan is given. Maybe increased FTGG range or allow to fire overwatch again after FTGG, hit on 5+ or something.

>>53911872
Well not every army has Darkstrider; and GW certain won't write rules in that way.

So I have a tourney coming up that is 1000pt, 2 detachments, and on 4x4 table.

I own multiples of every Tau model except Ghostkeels and Stormsurges.

Our meta is going to have me facing at least two lists that have Magnus+Renegade Knight or 2x Imp Knight Wardens...

Anon, help me with a list because I have no idea how to circumvent that shit.

>>53911897
Why make a strategem that does something the army can already do?

>>53911971
That's the 8e tau thing. We have like 5 sources of reroll '1s'. Most of the markerlight effects are duplicated on battlesuit systems or drones. Most of the units are yet another way to spam s5 ap- shots. Kroots and drones both do the same shit etc.

>>53912055

Speaking of markerlights, I've opted to build lists that don't need them because they:

1)Suck points up (marker drones etc)
2)Probably will miss at BS4+/5+ but mostly 5+ because range
3)Why buy markerlights when you get reroll 1s everywhere else? Just buy more dakka
4)The abilities suck unless you land max lights

>>53911927

>Magnus
Can target him always so people just dump all the dakka at him off the start. Regardless of cannon fodder. Gotta kill him at range so don't bunch up either. Not sure what is most point efficient against him

>>53912550
Markerlight bonuses are a bit wierd right now.
1.Is good but similar benefit is easy to get elsewhere
2.is useless at worst if you don't have special missiles, time will tell how useful those end up to be
3.Is kinda wierd. It's an ability you want to know ahead if you get it but when it works it's indirect +1bs and allows you to move faster. Movement abilities are hard to cost right as their strenght is not linear and clear in all cases.
4.is extra AP if cover ends up being a big thing. Lots of units have +2 to saves from cover etc. But if the enemy doesn't use cover this is 100% useless.
5. is great hands down.

The big problem is that you need to plan ahead but get inconsistent outcome out of them and most of the buffs are really on/off. They are kinda like psychic powers for other armies where you can get way more attempts but can't choose your powers.

>>53912550
>3)Why buy markerlights when you get reroll 1s everywhere else? Just buy more dakka
Because you won't often be in range of ethereals

Kauyon is only once per game and you may not be in range of it

Multi-tracker comes at the opportunity cost of other, better systems or weapons

Pathfinders are incredibly cheap

Removing the penalty from moving+firing is amazing for repositioning tanks, riptides, ghostkeels, planes and assault commanders

Seeker Missiles are really good. Destroyer Missiles are even better.

Removing cover is like giving an ATS to all shots against a unit in cover.

>4)The abilities suck unless you land max lights
Nah

>>53912617
Well its a 4x4 table and he gets to go first unless I sieze, so with his incredible threat range Im going to get dived turn one... probably. Honestly I was thinking of making a list that makes it possible for me to put half my army in deepstrike, then hide the other half behind cover so I can take my turn without a ton of losses.

I think maybe Plasma Rifle Commander is most points efficient? Fusion is probably bad because of the invuln save he gets so the AP-4 is sorta wasted.

>>53912839

Bubble wrap a stormsurge and have some MLs to dump an absurd number of wounds and mortal wounds on him?

>>53912839
>I think maybe Plasma Rifle Commander is most points efficient? Fusion is probably bad because of the invuln save he gets so the AP-4 is sorta wasted.

Both are hitting on 2+
Fusion will have an easier chance to wound.
Both are going to need to get through the invuln save because they're at least AP2
Plasma does 1 damage
Fusion does D6

When you're fighting against a big single target the choice should be obvious.

>>53912815
Seeker missles are not cost effective. Destroyer missles are "okay" but you're still paying for a one time shot at Ballistic Skill 4+

Removing the penalty for moving and shooting Heavy Weapons is alright, but you need to score 3 markers. Then go all in on it whatever you lit up.

Why remove their cover save when you can drown them in shots or hit them with all the rending shit we have?

Sub 2000 pts I just dont see markerlights making an impact and hurting yourself to take them instead of just going for quality volume of fire, which Tau has in spades...

Markerlights seem to really only make a few units shine (Stormsurge, Big Suits) and those are pieces that are 250+ points. Give them the proper amount of markerlights and suddenly you have very few points left to put into the rest of the list.

With Tau, markerlights are "good", but compared to the rest of what we can take, I'd rather spam the "great" stuff.

>>53912897
Oh my bad, I though Plasma was 2dmg.

Yeah 8 shots of plasma pales in comparison to 4 shots of Fusion against a single high would target.

>>53913014
>Seeker missles are not cost effective.
Yes, they are

You can use 14 missiles (70 points) to kill a 12 wound tank/vehicle (>70 points) and there's no amount of armor that can stop it

>Sub 2000 pts I just dont see markerlights making an impact
Git gud

>Why remove their cover save when you can drown them in shots or hit them with all the rending shit we have?
Because you can do both? Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive

>With Tau, markerlights are "good", but compared to the rest of what we can take, I'd rather spam the "great" stuff.
Not taking 40 or 80 points of force multipliers to make your WHOLE ARMY full of "great stuff" better is just idiocy

>>53896921
I kinda like drobes, I think that's my new name for theb.

>>53913069
Okay fine, you win. Ill try them out. Since Ive been ignoring them, whats our best source of reliable marker hits? Pathfinders, I assume.

>>53913541
Most reliable is a fireblade cadre sitting in a droneport with 4 marker drones. Reliably gets 5 markerlights per turn.
But that costs 142 points

For 142 points you can take 18 pathfinders and get 9 markerlights per turn on average

Pathfinders are the most cost effective

Use Kayuon to load up the enemy with markerlights and unleash hell. Seeker Missiles on 3+ rerolling (2+ if you're a tank) are very reliable damage output against key targets.

Is there any reason to take burst cannons on a vehicle? You can use the ballistic skill of whatever they're mounted on to fire the 4 carbines (burst 8) plus they're detachable

>>53913694
*Use burst cannons over gun drones

>>53913694
Can you do that? The firing drones at vehicle BS?

>>53913694
Its usually cheaper

Gun drones can only target what is immediately closest to them

Otherwise no, not really any reason

>>53913728
They count as attached guns

>>53913606
Hmm I don't own any Sky Rays, but I'm working on a 1000pt list and will be taking a Sunhark Bomber. Maybe I can't Seeker Missle Alpha, but I'll put in Pathfinders to just have more bodies and maybe play mind fuck games?

>>53913790
Makes me feel a bit relieved about that Devilfish I just finished!

>>53913741
But it says that they count as being equipped by the vehicle, so would be fired using the bs of whatever they're stuck to

>>53913916
And the vehicle doesn't have the closest target restriction

Kauyon: Until the end of the turn, you can re-roll failed hit rolls for friendly <SEPT> units within 6", but these
units cannot move for any reason.

Does this mean flyers get to stay put for a turn if they are affected by the buff? I can't seem to find out what happens if a flyer can't move.

>>53914093
Movement phase, Minimum move.
Seriously the basic rules are like 8 pages and yet you guys keep missing these things.

>>53914130
Ah yes, I knew that but I guess I didn't correlate the two together since one is dealing with board edges and the other is a Commander calling the Kauyon.

Its kinda funny that calling a Kauyon within range of a flyer is saying "GTFO now"

>>53908535
It'll have the Macro weapon modifier from FW; it'll do double damage (after all mods) on other titanic stuff or buildings

>>53914210
Read that part again. It states clearly what happens if you can't make your minimum movement.

>>53913069
>You can use 14 missiles (70 points) to kill a 12 wound tank/vehicle (>70 points) and there's no amount of armor that can stop it
Eh, how are you planning on hitting those 14 missiles without spending a lot more points elsewhere to make that viable?
Only Longstrike & Friends will have a really good chance on hitting with them. The others will fire at BS4+ (re-rolling 1s) until you get at least 5 MLs

Seeker missiles seems to be good to kill characters, not big stuff. Sky Rays even lost Velocity Tracker...
If they were 1d3 or 2 mortal wounds per missile, then they would be really good (could even cost 10p)

>>53913694
None at all. GW being GW

>>53914225
Macro 2 Dd6+6 and 3 mortal wounds on a 5+ wound roll
Hmm

>>53914348
I think his idea is to call the Kauyon to reroll all failed hits, then markerlight something up with the rerollable 4+, then blast it with seekers from a Skyray since the Seekers can reroll and are hitting on 2+

so, even though fish of fury might be overcosted due to the price of a Devilfish, hear me this:

Would it be a viable idea to run a fireblade with 11 drones in a devilfish?

that would give you 85 s5 shots within 9 inches, 66 of them on 5+, 3 on 2+ and 16 on 4+ if the devilfish hasn't been damaged too much on the way in. and in addition to that you have the markerlight of the fireblade.

this would cost 257 points if i am correct.

what do you think?

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>>53914506
It's an idea. The problem is having all that keyed up juust right and not losing your seeker-carrying stuff prior to that moment

>>53914594

I assume its a first turn or nothing tactic. Cause if the opponent knows what you're doing he's probably going to deploy to prevent it, or if he goes first, just focus the keystone.

>>53889756

So I was looking getting back into tabletop with 8th edition, and I was thinking about Tau. however, I don't know shit:

Is this list a meme or is this actually viable? It seems like the number of drones blocking shots for the heavy hitters would be superb

>>53907211

Stop moving the goal posts faggot

>>53915295
Drones have insane damage output now but can only shoot the closest target to them. Commanders are super good now that they can fire 4 guns that hit on 2+ and deeps strike is on any turn you want (t1-t3 in matched) with no scattering or misshaps. Drone controller is only +1 to hit for ALL drones within 6'' of bearer.

>>53915370
Doesn't make them any less arbitrary.

>>53915471

Ancillary question:

Anyone find anything good to replace a Tau FW's head with that makes them look drone-y or robotic?

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>>53915626
Target locks? File&green stuff the neck area and put this instead of head? Looks pretty SW droidlike to me. Rest of the body might be too bulky then...

>>53915471
I'm sure you'll have lots of fun playing 1732 point games with your snowflake friends

>>53915720
You didn't answer the question. Why is 1732p more arbitrary than 1k or 2k? Is there some inherent value in multiples of 1000?

>>53915803

One is a nice round number that GW endorses while the other isnt
Arbitrary but not without reason

>>53914575
My only problem with that is that's a lot of shots going into 1 unit. You declare where all your shoots are going before firing and gun drones must target the closest visible enemy unit.

>>53891578

I realized FW also has their own Tau character. I wonder what his special rules will be

>>53914575
11 drones w/ devilfish
85 x 2/6 x 4/6 x 3/6 = 9.4 dead GEQs T3 SV4+
85 x 2/6 x 4/6 x 2/6 = 6.3 dead MEQs T4 SV3+
85 x 2/6 x 4/6 x 1/6 = 3.2 dead TEQs T4 SV2+

Comparatively
2 commanders with 4 plasma rifles 240pts
2 x 8 x 5/6 x 5/6 x 6/6 = 11.1 dead GEQs
2 x 8 x 5/6 x 4/6 x 5/6 = 7.4 dead MEQs
2 x 8 x 5/6 x 4/6 x 4/6 = 5.9 dead TEQs

(note: did TEQs get an extra wound? if so please cut value in half)

All those dice mean very little when you are filtering them through low BS and SVs

So I keep hearing how the ghostknell is great but if you want fusion blaster shots, isn't a commander just better? I realize the ghostknell is a lot tanky than a commander but is it worth it?

>>53918706

GEQs are 5+ aren't they?
Terms are W2
But anyway, might as well just plop down drones, maybe a pulse accelerator with a marksman and just get peak efficiency.

~ 240 pts
27 Drones+Marksman
108*1/2*4/6*1/3 gives like 12 dead MEQs

>>53919109
I actually think everything is extremely fairly cost and tau is more of a tool box where it is a lot easier to screw in screw with a screwdriver than a hammer.

That said, all this speculation of what is good is kinda meaningless without the context of what all the other armies are bringing. 100 drone shots is meaningless if everyone is driving around in landraiders and a bunch of fusion shots is meaningless if 300 conscripts is the new meta.

Tau has always been a meta-counter and we really need to see more before we go out and buy packs and packs of drones.

>>53919361
>Tau has always been a meta-counter

Oh it sure seems like that.
Deepstrikers everywhere? EWO
Fly everywhere? VT
Charging a lot without deepstrike? CDS
High AP? Shield

Im not really understanding the Beacon/Manta thing since the beacon no longer works within 9' of an enemy and you cant strike within 9" so whats the point of the beacon?

Also I think the Kroot Hounds with their two str 3 -1 ap attacks each will be great for slaughtering infantry in CC.

>>53920342
Read the Rules. You place beacon in your movement phase, then drop in with it at the end of movement phase.

>>53920342
Beacon destroys if the enemy moves within 9'' of it. So it will destroy in their turn not yours. So it allows you to manta strike within 9'' of enemies.

Ahh, that is what I thought

But as I said.
you can have 12 kroot hounds, each with two attacks. 24 str 3, -1 ap.
WS 3+
Wound 4+
Bird dogs love eating dogs.
(R.I.P Greater Knarloc, no rules in 8th ed)

So does savior protocols work with Nova core?

>>53920488
Yes. It is pretty clear that you can do this. But default riptides suck balls, so dont take them. FW however? My nipples twitch

So as 8th is developing it seems that tanks, vehicles and multi wound monsters are going to be very strong. As a result I feel fusion blasters are going to be really strong.

For 176 pts we have a commander with 4 fusion and 2 gun drones (would shield drones be better?)
Pros:
BS2+ means most shots will hit and makes best use of markerlights
Deep strike right where you need it
master of war ability is pretty strong

cons:
less wounds than a ghostknell
less mobility that ghostkneel


For 201pts you can have a ghostkeel with 2 stealth drones
Pros:
10 wounds it tough
-1 to hit and -2 to hit from <12" makes it very difficult to hit and makes it a lot stronger than its T6 W10 SV3+ frame would suggest
12" move lets you relocate quickly

Cons:
infiltrate is worst than manta strike
BS4+ is a drag

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>>53920516
>But default riptides suck balls, so dont take them.
Great, I haven't even played a game with the riptide I bought and assembled with a custom pose and magnets and everything

>>53920631

With homing beacons you can also DS right into melta range.
In which case, so long as your wound rolls go well, you can murder something in one volley.

>>53920653

HBC isn't terrible.
If enough people whine, GW might bring the Riptide up to being not terrible.

>>53920746
I have two riptides. It's not that they are bad, its that they are not worth taking.

>>53920653
Convert them into the FW ones! If you magnetized the guns youre solid. If you magnetized the jet packs your even more fucking golden.

If you didnt magnetize the jetpacks just find some bits that look Tau like and have a big ass thruster (gundam models are good for this) and boom, Yavahra Riptde.

>>53920653
just convert it to an xv109, which looks pretty good already, all you need is some wings on the jet pack, magnetise it to have 2 guns and it should be fine

>>53921115
>>53921136

Two days till we find out if the 107 kicks butt or sniffs butt

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8KB, 300x211px

Do sniper drones synergy with drone spam lists? Do they get the benefit of drone controllers besides the marksman's bonus?

>>53921768
The marksman bonus stacks with a drone controller, and from the numbers I've seen you actually want both along with a sizable blob of sniper drones for them to be more efficient.

They could do well in a drone spam list as a way to pick out characters, as you'll have the drone controllers for them anyway.

>>53921768

Marksman and controller yes
Volley fire no

>>53888277
>>53889756
>>53896426
>>53896791

There a website for these sheets? Or is it a program? They're slick.

>>53922143
https://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#!/rosterCreator#%2FrosterCreator

>>53922158

Neat! Thanks!

>>53887203
There's always one guy that hasn't played for 100 years and is just getting back into it now

What time will the indices go live this friday?

>>53888277
Looks nice. I'd divide the troops more though, making four units of 8. Morale tests are a bitch in this edition!

>>53920653
Riptide isn't terrible, it's just outshined by it's leaner brother the Ghostkeel and it's similarly costed younger cousin the Stormsurge.

The Y'Vhara datasheet alone made me pick up a chinacast of it.

Guess we get to see the R'Varna and VX9s Friday?

How's 2 Riptides and 3 Start Collecting for a starter army?

>>53914093
>Does this mean flyers get to stay put for a turn if they are affected by the buff? I can't seem to find out what happens if a flyer can't move.
RAW if you use Kauyon and your plane is in range then the plane is destroyed because if it doesn't move it is destroyed.

>>53914506
Exactly this

Also pirahnas and broadsides are hitting on 3s rerolling

Hammerheads can bring 2 missiles each (and you always should do this - 10 points for 2 mortal wounds is a steal)

>>53914594
Thats what Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits are for.

Fire Warriors form a protective screen and Crisis Suits/Commanders are on the other side of the map distracting your opponent.

Tau can easily play the classic bait and trap strategy

>>53909873
Probably more Heavy 1 and S16 AP-5 D2D6
For each 6+ When Rolling Damage the unit suffers D6 Mortal Wounds

>>53915803
Because the rulebook says 1000, 2000, and 3000 are standard size games

When the COMPANY THAT DESIGNED THE GAME tells you the game sizes they intended to be used it's not arbitrary

>>53919432
I agree

Tau can make a list to beat anything. The problem is predicting what you are going to be playing against in every round.

The problem with an army focused on countering is bringing a list that can accurately predict a meta and still be able to take on lists that don't fall into your predictions.

If you lean too far on destroying infantry because of internet memery on 500 conscripts and boyz then you'll quickly lose to a 3x Knight list.

>>53920488
No
>>53920516
Wrong

See my post earlier in the thread: >>53908181

If Saviour Protocols was intended to work on mortal wounds it would say "when a model loses a wound, do X" like many other abilities in the game

>>53920631
I think Commanders and Ghostkeels serve different roles and shouldn't be directly compared

>>53924653
>How's 2 Riptides
1 at most
>3 start Collecting
I would cut it down to 1 or 2 and get a Commander box instead

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>>53924947
>standard size games
>tells you the game sizes they intended to be used

That's not what the box says at all.
It SUGGESTS (not tell) you that, in TOURNEYS, you COULD use the table as a GUIDELINE.
Also, it says the organizers can change those values as they see fit.

So prepare to throw fits when you see 1500, 1750, 1850, 2250 or 2500 points tourneys, because they'll happen.

>>53925006
What's the cheapest way to 2000pts of Tau?

>>53924653
That's a lot of painting anon, don't buy it all in one go.
Also don't take riptides if you don't love the model, they are kind of meh now.

>>53925043
Bundle boxes.

2 Start Collecting is great for getting all the Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits you'll need.

If you can find one the Tau Battleforce was a great deal. It was a 2016 holiday item so it's probably sold out everywhere

Retaliation Cadre was another good bundle box but it seems like they stopped producing it.

Optimized Pathfinder Team is a good way to get pathfinders and a devilfish.

Try to find somebody selling their tau army on ebay/kijiji/facebook, usually great prices if you do a little bit of digging.

>>53920631
Commanders do about 1.7x the damage to t7 sv3 as a ghostkeel, at 160 points he's also 80% of the cost. Its not even close really, Commanders are far and away the best anti vehicle in Tau and they come in such an effective and efficient package that it obsoletes a lot of other options.

>>53925093
Yeah not really counting on OOP stuff. If I wanted to buy from the GW site right now, what should my 2000pts of Tau look like?

>>53924937
>Classic Bait and Trap Strategy
Use your Fire Caste terms, Anon.

>>53926000
One or two Ghostkeels, couple sets of Stealth Teams, a Start Collecting, Stormsurge/Riptide/Y'Vhara, Pathfinders and Devilfish bundle, Sunshark, Commander or another start Collecting. Can grab a Broadside or two if you don't mind.

Is budget an issue?

I doubt I'll be able to get one, but does anyone know a place selling the forgeworld Fighta-Bommer? It's my most wanted kit at this point.

What is currently the best support system for all suits in general?

How would you all rate piranhas?

>>53926500
Stimm or ATS will almost never go to waste.

>>53926500
ATS, followed up by Target Lock on the big suits in games with few markerlights and Velocity Tracker in a meta full of xenos aind aircraft

Stimm injectors or shield generators for crisis suits?

>>53926554
Subtracting the cost of the 2 drones you end up with 55 points for a burst cannon or 66 for a fusion blaster.

1 fusion blaster shot at BS4+ is really bad. Even if it hits I don't think it's ever going to do significant damage.

Their best features are their medium defenses (T5, 6W) and their very high movement value (16" flying) for a low point cost.

I don't know how to make them impactful.
To get 4 FB you need to pay 264 points, but for 160 points you can take a 4x Fusion Commander and deep strike anywhere you want.

If the pirahna sees play it will be because people find a use for the multiple turns of high movement you can get from it, but it's a very tiny niche and I don't think it's very valuable.

>>53926554
I'd consider them a sleeper hit. For their points you get a lot of Dakka. Only thing is they seem dependent on Markerlights and/or Kauyon from Commanders. No Support Systems either.

Maybe not quit as survivable as Stealth suits, but the attached drones can be very versatile. I know most anons here swear by Drone spam though...

I'd say they're at the front of the pack in the "middle of the road" grouping. Not absolutely necessary, but they'll help thin and block the hordes.

>>53926696
Cheapest seeker missile platform and they absorb charges to some degree.

>>53926500
Depends on the suit and what you want the suit to do.

Coldstar, Riptides and Ghostkeels really like Target Lock because they want to be more mobile.

Commanders and Crisis Suits are usually taking 3 weapons instead of support systems.

You can turn Broadsides and Stormsurge into good Overwatch turrets with a CFDS

Stormsurge and Ghostkeels love the EWO. Stormsurge uses its massive base to deny a huge part of the map, while a Ghostkeel can use it to protect a flank. They must deploy more than 12" away (or take a ton of damage immediately) and any shots at that range have -2 to hit the ghostkeel.

Coldstar and Stealth Suit burst cannons love the ATS because it lets them eat up infantry units. Missile Pods and CIB benefit a lot from the ATS, too.

Velocity Trackers are good for heavy weapon users like Ghostkeel, Riptide, and 3x FB Commanders that try to snipe planes.

Sitting a commander with 3x Missile Pods in a gunline benefits a lot from Drone Controller

Shield Generators are usually a waste because you can take shield drones and just move hits to the drones instead.

>>53926745
81 points for 2 seekers at BS4+
If you don't count the drones then it's 65

Sky Ray is 171 for 6 at BS3+
If you don't count the drones then it's 155

Sky Ray is more seeker missiles per point and better ballistic skill. It also has 2 markerlights at BS3+

Sky Ray is less likely to need to move during its turn, while the pirahna will be firing heavy weapons at -1 almost all the time. It's negated by markerlights but it is a situation that can come up and is worth considering.

I can't help but feel that a lot of Tau players aren't putting enough focus into the off-aliens in 8th. Kroot are super nice now to have in front of guys, and Vespids ACTUALLY seem useful (14" move, guns have 2 shots now, fly) in some cases

Thoughts?

twitch dot tv/videos/153269396

Frontline Gaming

Reece uses double commanders

>>53927714
Vespids are recognized as great but I don't think many players have them in great numbers as they have been shit for 2 editions and are failcast models. I'm still sitting on the edge with kroots. They don't shoot as well as other choices, can't take a hit, has weak punch. Oxes and hounds might see some play as they are cheap guns and hyper fast doggos. Carnivores themselves are cheapish but as drones and fire warriors got cheaper too that gap has been closing and there isn't that much stuff they can do now. Free 7'' move instead of infiltrators and stealth.

>>53928004
just means we need new alien race models for tau
and new alien races

>>53927920

Commander meta

I'm really bloody interested on what Sept rules will be like, especially since they're not really that clear aside from maybe the Enclaves. They're not as iconic like SM chapters are, where each have a clear preference over some form of doctrine or style.

Same for other armies too like nids. I hope we get a Sept that specializes in ambush/stealth shit.

>>53929334
I painted my army Vior'la, hope we get some heinous shit for the infantry models, since I always imagined a Vior'la doctrine of war would be very up close and personal, without actually getting into melee combat. I play with squads of Fire Warriors backed up by Fireblades just jumping out of Devilfish and into rapid fire range, give me some shit that boosts that, please.

>>53929334

Who knows
All I really want is the Enclaves to be a standalone different style of Tau

Got tabled in 2 turns vs. Tau as Orks. Had over 100 boyz footslogging it and they all died. What the fuck do I do against them?

>>53931541
I dont know enough about Orks to give specific advice, but here's some general advice on playing against Tau:

Charge them with tanks to absorb overwatch, then bring in your softer units
Use line of sight
Use your deep strike/teleport mechanics
Wrap your characters because you never know what angle the Tau will drop down and shoot you
Dont be afraid to use heavy weapons to kill Crisis Suits - it is NOT a waste, crisis suits have T5 and 3W each, they are a high priority target to take out
Shoot drones near battlesuits before using heavy weapons (they are a separate unit and can be targeted separately)
Try to charge from multiple angles so he doesnt have room to fall back (high mobility flanking units are great for this)

>>53931541

Can't really say anything if you give 0 details.
What did he have?

were stats changed from 7th to 8th? I'm new to this game and just recently bought the killteam box. The stats in the kill team book are different (stronger) than the stats for 8th. Is it just different stats in kill team to balance the game out?

>>53931663
He had quite a lot of fire warriors, those battlesuits, a riptide, a piranha. He just kept shooting and shooting and shooting and by the end of his second turn I just conceded. Drones hiding units from my charges, overwatch from literally everywhere (Tau can seriously just overwatch from other units 6" away? GodDamn)

>>53931794
yeah but once they use "For the Greater Good" That unit can no longer overwatch that turn.

>>53931831
Sure, but it doesn't matter when he basically wipes my dudes out.

What kinda list would scare you guys? Footslogging doesn't seem to phase y'all.

>>53931873
>What kinda list would scare you guys?
Tau need to bring a variety of weapons to deal with a variety of threats because we have specialized weaponry for different targets. Unfortunately this leaves us vulnerable to lists that go all-in on a particular kind of threat, like lists with 6+ tanks or 500 conscripts. Against tanks our fire warriors and burst cannons are worthless and against mass infantry our anti-tank weapons are garbage.


>Footslogging doesn't seem to phase y'all.
Footslogging doesnt scare anyone, in any game, ever

>>53931873
I think shooting lists are the biggest problem for T'au now. Our weapon platforms were cheap before, now they're quite expensive - meaning we have less of them.

>>53931941
>Footslogging doesn't scare anyone

I thought 8th was supposed to be the edition of the horde :(

>>53931941
>Footslogging doesnt scare anyone, in any game, ever
You must be new to 40k if you don't remember when horde armies were a severe problem unless you prepped for them.
Granted, that was 10 years past.

>>53931962
oops, forgot to add: other armies will have closer firepower to ours, thus making them very dangerous

>>53931964
Hordes != footslog

>>53931988
Oh so like, a list of 5+ battlewagons full of boyz?

>>53931997
You want boyz in big squads of 30 to get the most benefit from their abilities

Use teleporters and psychic powers to put your boys in melee range on turn 1

Turn 1 charges are possible and common

>>53931964

Yeah, I was thinking that ork spam should've won...?

>>53932054
>>53932069
That's what I tried. Didn't work. Had 90 slugga boyz. 30 were in charge range on turn 1, 60 (well, less than that because they got shot to shit) in range turn 2. They all got eaten by Flamers, overwatch, and his turns of shooting

>>53932184
If your boys are getting shot by flamers on overwatch then youre doing something wrong

Either charge from 8.5" away (orks are really good at this because they can reroll charges, makes 8+ charges a lot more likely) or charge something like a tank first so it absorbs the overwatch and then they're tied down so they can't overwatch on your boys.

>>53932215
He used a homing beacon to drop his flamer dudes like 3 inches from me. Then flamed me. Then I charged my turn and got flamed again.

>>53932294
step back a bit and charge him

you dont always have to move directly towards the enemy

also, kill the stealth suits and then he cant drop a homing beacon on you

>>53932326
Gotcha. I'll make sure to try that next time.

>>53932326
Killing stealthsuits as orks might be challenging. With -1 to hit shooting them is almost pointless and even in melee they might troll their way out of it.

>>53933714
-1 to being shot at and in CC... Plus they have T4 base with a 3+ armour and Fly to get them out. It's a good thing they can't swap our for Flamers.

Is it a confirmed thing that drones that come with a squad count as a separate killpoint?

>>53935755
Yes. Elek toranti.

Someone should try playing with a firesight marksmen without the sniper drones, It seems you can do this and I want to see his buffs on something else.